Should the France v Ireland game be replayed?

[Baw187]

As it says. With all the chat on this, lets see what opinions are.

I have to say, I'm not sure you can set a precident by replaying but I think morally it probably should be.

That's an aye then !:greengrin

[blueisthecolour]

Nope no replay.

[persevere1875]

Joey Jordan, Thats all I'm saying :wink:

[MacBean]

perhaps not the whole game but extra time!?


get rid of this french dominance in FIFA!!!!!!

[Golden Bear]

Certainly not.

To do so would open up a minefield so there's absolutely no way a replay should be considered.

[Barney McGrew]

If we start replaying games where someone has cheated and gained an advantage, we'd be playing seven days a week.

[Hibbie_Cameron]

It wont be replayed

[soupy]

No chance

[lapsedhibee]

If we start replaying games where someone has cheated and gained an advantage, we'd be playing seven days a week.

Have we been playing seven days a week since 1999 (http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/ars-ne-wenger-offers-fa-cup-rematch), then? :dunno:

[Sir David Gray]

Yes, it should be replayed but it won't be.

I don't agree that this would/should set a precedent for every single match from now on. I don't think that you can compare a World Cup play off with a Scottish second division game, for example.

World Cups only take place every four years, players might only get the opportunity to play in three or four World Cups in their lifetime and when you play for a country like Ireland, you might only get one shot at it.

There is also the financial implications of something like this. It's hugely damaging to Ireland as a nation.

Thierry Henry should be banned for 10 international games and the match should be replayed.

[Barney McGrew]

Have we been playing seven days a week since 1999 (http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/ars-ne-wenger-offers-fa-cup-rematch), then? :dunno:

Arsenal offered a replay on that one because Kanu said he misunderstood what was happening rather than cheated IIRC (if you want to believe him that is :wink:)

We should get the 1979 Scottish Cup Final replayed when we're at it, since we should definitely have had a penalty.

[lapsedhibee]

Arsenal offered a replay on that one because Kanu said he misunderstood what was happening rather than cheated IIRC (if you want to believe him that is :wink:).

Nothing to stop the French offering the Irish a replay now, just as Wenger did in 1999. Whether it was a misunderstanding or cheating that has led to the perception of unfairness isnae here or there. I'd like to see the offer made.

[Baw187]

Yes, it should be replayed but it won't be.

I don't agree that this would/should set a precedent for every single match from now on. I don't think that you can compare a World Cup play off with a Scottish second division game, for example.

World Cups only take place every four years, players might only get the opportunity to play in three or four World Cups in their lifetime and when you play for a country like Ireland, you might only get one shot at it.

There is also the financial implications of something like this. It's hugely damaging to Ireland as a nation.

Thierry Henry should be banned for 10 international games and the match should be replayed.


I agree with all of this with the exception of the 10 game ban bit.

Aside from that, it's an excellent point that outlines exactly why this case is dofferent.

[Sir David Gray]

I agree with all of this with the exception of the 10 game ban bit.

Aside from that, it's an excellent point that outlines exactly why this case is dofferent.

A 10 game ban would ensure that Henry misses the entire World Cup, regardless of whether or not a replay takes place.

Perhaps a bit harsh but I think a message must be sent out to people (particularly the millions of children who look up to Henry) that cheating will absolutely not be tolerated in football.

[Rossco1875]

a replay would be fair at the end of the day but i dont think it will happen. As for henry i dont see any reason why he should not be punished for this as it was gaining a advantage by cheating.

[lucky]

Are the Irish claiming through out the 10 game qualifying they got no decisions in their favour which could have changed the course of a game? These things do generally even themselves out. This season we have been lucky/unlucky with refereeing decisions. its all part and parcel of the game

[Jack]

It wont happen. Its not just this game but what about all the others during this qualification where someone felt cheated? Though luck its the last game and being so close its right shame for them.

[PeeJay]

There is no way the game should be replayed. What happened (as bad as it was) was a factual decision, i.e. the referee's decision and it has to be accepted as final. It must always be accepted as final, surely?
If "incorrect" decisions could be contested in court then football is finished because every other club would contest every other decision - stuff fairness, they would contest any old decision and where would we all be then? Here in Germany they would want the 1966 final replayed! There must be thousands of examples out there ...

Move on Ireland - bad luck!

[Woody1985]

I'd have voted no but not because they are whinging. They've genuinely been screwed from what I can see.

The real issue here is those cheating ***** at FIFA seeding the play offs in the first place so that none of the big nations miss out. I don't know why there wasn't a big fuss made when they moved the goal posts.

[Barney McGrew]

The FAI have now written to the French FA to officially request a replay

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11095_5705430,00.html

FIFA have also confirmed that they've received a request from them to replay the game.

[Hakim Sar]

No to replay as it sets a dangerous precedent for all decisions that swing a match to be nit-picked

Yes to a ban on thierry henry, absolutely.

But football throws up all kinds of villains heroes drama and whilst last night was wrong on so many levels, football has given the world something to talk
about again!!!

[Golden Bear]

It's fair to say that cheating takes place on a regular basis and in many different forms.

It's sadly become a part of today's game where the thinking seems to be that if an advantage can be obtained then anything goes.

The game would be impossible to administer if demands are made for a match to be replayed, or the player(s) involved are later disciplined for their actions - regardless of the nature of the alleged "cheating."

[ballengeich]

Absolutely no. In every game there are fouls which are undetected. Both teams will have got away with a few during the 210 minutes of the 2 games. If you replay this game you will then have to replay the replay once the losing team's staff have gone through a video replay and found how a potential goal was prevented by a little tug on a forward's jersey which the referee didn't notice. This could continue until homo sapiens dies out.

Referees' mistakes have to be accepted - in most games they make fewer than any of the players.

I would agree to a punishment for Henry. Given that his offence would have been worth a yellow card, a one game ban from the finals would be sufficient for it not being detected.

[PaulSmith]

The FAI have now written to the French FA to officially request a replay

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11095_5705430,00.html

FIFA have also confirmed that they've received a request from them to replay the game.

Pathetic from the IFA and they know that they stand no chance of it happening.

[Bayern Bru]

Nope no replay.

Well, surprise sur-****in'-prise.

[HIBERNIAN-0762]

I can't believe the votes so far!!, whining Irish?, do me a favour ffs, just imagine if it was us?, the French are arrogant and crap, we proved that...twice!

[lyonhibs]

Certainly not.

To do so would open up a minefield so there's absolutely no way a replay should be considered.

Absolutely correct. :agree:

Life's a bitch, get over it all ye Irish hand-wringers

[Mixu62]

Should be a 3rd option - france disqualified for being cheatin' french bassas and Ireland awarded their place in the tournament!!:greengrin

[Hibbyradge]

I don't like the choice.

Whinging Irish Bassas isn't why I would vote no.

A decision was made, it was wrong.

If games were replayed everytime that happened, Scotland may not have qualified for Spain 82. England may have beaten Maradonna's Argentina and a load of other games would have had to been replayed.

Video technology for the future is the only answer. Even if it is just for the top leagues, European games and Internationals.

[Hibbyradge]

Absolutely correct. :agree:

Life's a bitch, get over it all ye Irish hand-wringers

What's that about? :confused:

[matty_f]

No, it shouldn't be replayed.

What happened was a foul, and a bookable offence if the referee had spotted it.

If there'd been a handball anywhere else on the pitch that had gone unspotted there wouldn't be calls to replay the game.

If an Ireland player had fouled a Frenchman in the run up to their goal, or had Keane been offside there wouldn't have been calls to replay it.

Some of the reaction to this has been well OTT, IMHO.

I feel for the Irish, it's a shame and it's a particularly unpleasant way to lose a game of football, particularly one as significant as a World Cup play-off, however the ref's given the goal and that should be that.

Of course, if FIFA would move out of the dark ages and use video technology the correct decision could have been made within seconds.

[lyonhibs]

What's that about? :confused:

Well ok, it's the hysterical reaction as if is the first time EVER, that someone has been screwed by a handball/other equally as bad form of cheating EVER, in the whole history of the game EVER that gets me!!

One suspects that over their careers, the Irish players, whether at international club level have directly benefited from some naughty "clever manipulation" and I severly doubt that the Irish or corresponding club fans were up on their high horse to denigrate their own players quite so quickly or dramatically as the Irish appear to have been, insinuating at some sort of ingrained FIFA conspiracy etc etc.

They seem to think they are the footballing equivalent of martyrs for honour, justice and fair play, wheras, in fact, they've just been incredibly unlucky as a whole variety of club and international teams have been over the past few decades.

[therealgavmac]

Yes, it should be replayed but it won't be.

I don't agree that this would/should set a precedent for every single match from now on. I don't think that you can compare a World Cup play off with a Scottish second division game, for example.

World Cups only take place every four years, players might only get the opportunity to play in three or four World Cups in their lifetime and when you play for a country like Ireland, you might only get one shot at it.

Imagine we are playing the Jumbo's at Hampden in the Scottish Cup Final. In injury time, Deeks handles the ball a la Henry and Stokes scores what happens to be the winner. Over 100 years of hurt ended!!!! It's not only the players lifetime, but lifelong Hibbys lifetime.

There is also the financial implications of something like this. It's hugely damaging to Ireland as a nation.

Thierry Henry should be banned for 10 international games and the match should be replayed.So Deeks gets banned for 10 matches, the game is replayed, the Jumbos win in the replay and our dismal record continues.

Now, how would we be debating that scenario?

[Hibbyradge]

Well ok, it's the hysterical reaction as if is the first time EVER, that someone has been screwed by a handball/other equally as bad form of cheating EVER, in the whole history of the game EVER that gets me!!

One suspects that over their careers, the Irish players, whether at international club level have directly benefited from some naughty "clever manipulation" and I severly doubt that the Irish or corresponding club fans were up on their high horse to denigrate their own players quite so quickly or dramatically as the Irish appear to have been, insinuating at some sort of ingrained FIFA conspiracy etc etc.

They seem to think they are the footballing equivalent of martyrs for honour, justice and fair play, wheras, in fact, they've just been incredibly unlucky as a whole variety of club and international teams have been over the past few decades.

Of course you're right, but your attitude to it is merely to accept injustice.

Because it happened before does not make it right. And it does not make it acceptable.

Someone has to make a stand or things will never change.

By the way, we would be doing EXACTLY the same.

And I suspect, you would join in.

Italy's free kick from which they scored against Scotland ring any bells?

Not as clear cut as last night, but my word, we had a moan fest.

[Bayern Bru]

They seem to think they are the footballing equivalent of martyrs for honour, justice and fair play, wheras, in fact, they've just been incredibly unlucky as a whole variety of club and international teams have been over the past few decades.

That part is utter pish.

Yes, they were unlucky and as a ROI supporter it was gutting, especially as it was Henry who I've always had a lot of respect for, and because he admitted that he blatantly cheated.

But footballing equivalent of martyrs for honour, justice and fair play? Behave. They were, best case scenario, a penalty shootout away from the world cup, after playing France off the park in their own backyard and lost out thanks to a cheat - I think they had a right to kick up a bit of a fuss.

Having said that, there's a dignified way to go about it...

[Bob1875]

Well ok, it's the hysterical reaction as if is the first time EVER, that someone has been screwed by a handball/other equally as bad form of cheating EVER, in the whole history of the game EVER that gets me!!

One suspects that over their careers, the Irish players, whether at international club level have directly benefited from some naughty "clever manipulation" and I severly doubt that the Irish or corresponding club fans were up on their high horse to denigrate their own players quite so quickly or dramatically as the Irish appear to have been, insinuating at some sort of ingrained FIFA conspiracy etc etc.

They seem to think they are the footballing equivalent of martyrs for honour, justice and fair play, wheras, in fact, they've just been incredibly unlucky as a whole variety of club and international teams have been over the past few decades.

Of course you're right, but your attitude to it is merely to accept injustice.

Because it happened before does not make it right. And it does not make it acceptable.

Someone has to make a stand or things will never change.

By the way, we would be doing EXACTLY the same.

And I suspect, you would join in.

Italy's free kick from which they scored against Scotland ring any bells?

Not as clear cut as last night, but my word, we had a moan fest.

We never asked for the game to be replayed though, so Ireland need to moan about it, suck it up & move on.

[lapsedhibee]

Yes, they were unlucky and as a ROI supporter it was gutting, especially as it was Henry who I've always had a lot of respect for, and because he admitted that he blatantly cheated.
:confused: That must have been in the Irish translation of the interview he gave in French. In the English translation that I heard, he only acknowledged that he had handled the ball and that the officials should have given a free kick against him.

[HibbyAndy]

The better team on the night defo never went through.


ROI went there and had a right good bloody go..werent intimidated by the French one bit and so nearly pulled it out the bag.

Unlucky Ireland, but you can take mega confidence from this game that you went to the Parc de Princes and played them off the park.

[Bayern Bru]

:confused: That must have been in the Irish translation of the interview he gave in French. In the English translation that I heard, he only acknowledged that he had handled the ball and that the officials should have given a free kick against him.

Whether he says "I cheated" or "I deliberately handled the ball," where's the difference?

Oh, and for reference:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/international/republicofireland/6599687/Thierry-Henry-admits-to-handball-that-defeated-Ireland-in-World-Cup-play-off.html

[lyonhibs]

Of course you're right, but your attitude to it is merely to accept injustice.

Because it happened before does not make it right. And it does not make it acceptable.

Someone has to make a stand or things will never change.

By the way, we would be doing EXACTLY the same.

And I suspect, you would join in.

Italy's free kick from which they scored against Scotland ring any bells?

Not as clear cut as last night, but my word, we had a moan fest.

True, and I was absolutely gutted/raging that night.

But - unless I'm much mistaken - did our captain come out and effectively say "FIFA will be happy with this and are probably having a jolly good laugh at our expense" and was an official request submitted by the SFA to their Italian counterparts and FIFA requesting a replay??

I think not - in doing that and making those accusations, the Irish FA and Robbie Keane have overstepped the mark from justifiable disappointment and a feeling of injustice into the realm of ridiculous conspiracy theories and some Primary School "Toys out of the pram" behaviour.

IMO

And of course, just to go the extra mile and really irritate some folk, if Ireland had just been marking Gallas in the box......................... :devil:

[Bayern Bru]

True, and I was absolutely gutted/raging that night.

But - unless I'm much mistaken - did our captain come out and effectively say "FIFA will be happy with this and are probably having a jolly good laugh at our expense" and was an official request submitted by the SFA to their Italian counterparts and FIFA requesting a replay??

I think not - in doing that and making those accusatins, the Irish FA and Robbie Keane have overstepped the mark from justifiable disappointment and a feeling of injustice into the realm of ridiculous conspiracy theories and some Primary School "Toys out of the pram" behaviour.

IMO

Can't argue with that really. Heat of the moment stuff perhaps from Keane?

[lapsedhibee]

Whether he says "I cheated" or "I deliberately handled the ball," where's the difference?
But he didn't say that he deliberately handled the ball, did he?


Oh, and for reference:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/international/republicofireland/6599687/Thierry-Henry-admits-to-handball-that-defeated-Ireland-in-World-Cup-play-off.html

Here's the quote from the article you linked:
"I will be honest, it was a handball. But I’m not the ref. I played it, the ref allowed it. That’s a question you should ask him.”
What you've quoted from that article is the headline writer's, not the player's.

[hibsbollah]

Yes it should be replayed.

As should the 86 Argentina-England game, Italy v S Korea quarter final in 2002, the 1980 FA Cup Final, and while we're at it restart the 1966 World Cup Final at 2-2 in extra time. In all these scenarios, the original 22 players must take part in the replay.

:rolleyes:

[AFKA5814_Hibs]

Once a game is finished it's finished, IMHO. The goal shouldn't have stood, but you can say the same about hundreds of goals scored every season. Goals are given every season which ultimately could decide league titles, cup wins or relegation, who's to say one goal is more important than another.

If in future there are video replays during the match which can decide these things at the time then fair enough, but not days after the game's finished.

[lapsedhibee]

Yes it should be replayed.

As should the 86 Argentina-England game, Italy v S Korea quarter final in 2002, the 1980 FA Cup Final, and while we're at it restart the 1966 World Cup Final at 2-2 in extra time. In all these scenarios, the original 22 players must take part in the replay.

:rolleyes:

Agree with all that except restarting matches part-way through. Replay the whole match or nothing. In the original venue, with the original crowds paying original admission prices.

[Hibbyradge]

True, and I was absolutely gutted/raging that night.

But - unless I'm much mistaken - did our captain come out and effectively say "FIFA will be happy with this and are probably having a jolly good laugh at our expense" and was an official request submitted by the SFA to their Italian counterparts and FIFA requesting a replay??

I think not - in doing that and making those accusations, the Irish FA and Robbie Keane have overstepped the mark from justifiable disappointment and a feeling of injustice into the realm of ridiculous conspiracy theories and some Primary School "Toys out of the pram" behaviour.



In fact, many in Scotland did suggest that officialdom would have been happy for France and Italy to qualify at our expense.

Again, you seem happy to meekly accept injustice.

I don't think they should get a replay, but they should raise as big a stink as they possible can about it and maybe things will change in future.

Toys out of the pram and conspiracy theories? I give you the 1966 World Cup Final.

Scotland weren't even involved yet we're still banging on about the travesty 43 years later.

[Danderhall Hibs]

perhaps not the whole game but extra time!?


get rid of this french dominance in FIFA!!!!!!

Whose the Frenchy(s) that dominate FIFA?

All of this stuff about replays and that is just a ridiculous over-reaction.

[AFKA5814_Hibs]

But he didn't say that he deliberately handled the ball, did he?


Here's the quote from the article you linked:
"I will be honest, it was a handball. But I’m not the ref. I played it, the ref allowed it. That’s a question you should ask him.”
What you've quoted from that article is the headline writer's, not the player's.

:agree: Which doesn't say he deliberately handled the ball, just stating the obvious that it hit his hand, everybody could see that.

Are people seriously suggesting that Henry should have went up to the ref after the goal was scored and said 'ref, the ball hit my hand before the goal was scored, so you should really disallow it'. :greengrin

Every football player would have done exactly the same as Henry and celebrated the goal.

[Bayern Bru]

But he didn't say that he deliberately handled the ball, did he?


Here's the quote from the article you linked:
"I will be honest, it was a handball. But I’m not the ref. I played it, the ref allowed it. That’s a question you should ask him.”
What you've quoted from that article is the headline writer's, not the player's.

No, he didn't say he deliberately handled the ball.
He said he intentionally handled it.
Whether or not a journo wrote it or Henry said it, the fact remains that Henry didn't accidentally handle the ball.
FFS, nit picking a bit here are we not?
:greengrin

I've read countless articles in which Henry "admitted" to handling the ball intentionally. It's all becoming a bit of a blur now. We're just going to end up going round in circles here. We appear to be disagreeing on the wording used to describe a deliberate handball...
:cool2:

[Judas Iscariot]

"Wingin Irish" :confused:

Is that a term for Aiden McGeady :cool2:

[Bayern Bru]

Whose the Frenchy(s) that dominate FIFA?

All of this stuff about replays and that is just a ridiculous over-reaction.

I believe Platini is a big noise in FIFA but to suggest a conspiracy is daft.

[hibs7062footbal]

no danger,he only done what anyone who has ever played competative football would have done , its all part of the game .:dummytit:

[Danderhall Hibs]

I believe Platini is a big noise in FIFA but to suggest a conspiracy is daft.

He's in UEFA.

[lapsedhibee]

No, he didn't say he deliberately handled the ball.
He said he intentionally handled it.
Where does he say this? :confused:



Whether or not a journo wrote it or Henry said it, the fact remains that Henry didn't accidentally handle the ball.

You think a journo giving an opinion is the same thing as the person he is writing about saying it? :shocked:


FFS, nit picking a bit here are we not?
:greengrin

Not really. You claimed that someone acknowledged himself to be a blatant cheat. This particular claim turns out to be a combination of a sloppy headline writer's work and your fevered imagination. :wink:


I've read countless articles in which Henry "admitted" to handling the ball intentionally.

Did he admit it or were the articles written by greeting Irishmen? Why is "admit" in inverted commas? :confused:


It's all becoming a bit of a blur now. We're just going to end up going round in circles here. We appear to be disagreeing on the wording used to describe a deliberate handball...
:cool2:
If you just link one single credible article where Henry admits that he intentionally or deliberately handled the ball, I will agree with you.

My opinion until demonstrated otherwise is that this handball is not the same as Maradona's, in that Maradona did not acknowledge he handled the ball; and not the same as Eduardo's dive against Celtc, in that Henry did not have time to plan the foul that he committed. Perception may be distorted by the brazillions of slowmo replays, but the whole incident was over in a fraction of a second. He committed a foul which was not picked up, and has acknowledged this - but your accusation that he blatantly cheated and acknowledged that seems to me to be simply wrong.

What constitutes deliberate/intentional handball seems to differ from week to week in MOTD according to who's punditing, who's refereeing, etc. The Henry incident is nowhere near as clear cut "cheating" as is being made oot.

[Sas_The_Hibby]

.........My opinion until demonstrated otherwise is that this handball is not the same as Maradona's, in that Maradona did not acknowledge he handled the ball; and not the same as Eduardo's dive against Celtc, in that Henry did not have time to plan the foul that he committed. Perception may be distorted by the brazillions of slowmo replays, but the whole incident was over in a fraction of a second. He committed a foul which was not picked up, and has acknowledged this - but your accusation that he blatantly cheated and acknowledged that seems to me to be simply wrong.

What constitutes deliberate/intentional handball seems to differ from week to week in MOTD according to who's punditing, who's refereeing, etc. The Henry incident is nowhere near as clear cut "cheating" as is being made oot.

More than that, Maradona seemed to glory in the fact that it was the "Hand Of God". Henry has been a bit more circumspect in what he has said, as you would expect.

IMO, FWIW
Obviously it was a handball and the goal shouldn't have stood, but the referee made an honest mistake.
It looked like Henry deliberately handled it second time but you could argue it happened so quickly that it was a reflex action.
Video replays should definitely be used in major tournaments, as they are in Rugby Union.
A match should only be replayed if there is clear evidence that the match officials cheated or, perhaps, if both sides agree to a replay in exceptional circumstances.

[lapsedhibee]

More than that, Maradona seemed to glory in the fact that it was the "Hand Of God". Henry has been a bit more circumspect in what he has said, as you would expect.

IMO, FWIW
Obviously it was a handball and the goal shouldn't have stood, but the referee made an honest mistake.
It looked like Henry deliberately handled it second time but you could argue it happened so quickly that it was a reflex action.
Video replays should definitely be used in major tournaments, as they are in Rugby Union.
A match should only be replayed if there is clear evidence that the match officials cheated or, perhaps, if both sides agree to a replay in exceptional circumstances.
Agree with all that although in all the replays I've seen so far it hasn't been clear whether the ref consulted his lino after all the Irish players chased him. Did he consult? If not, that's a bit surprising in the light of the vehemence of the chasing and gesticulating. If he didn't even bother to consult, I'd be adding that fact to the sudden seeding scandal and getting five...

[Bostonhibby]

perhaps not the whole game but extra time!?


get rid of this french dominance in FIFA!!!!!!

best nation in the world for looking after and representing the French national interest across all areas of life, almost makes you want to be one :wink:

[Sas_The_Hibby]

Agree with all that although in all the replays I've seen so far it hasn't been clear whether the ref consulted his lino after all the Irish players chased him. Did he consult? If not, that's a bit surprising in the light of the vehemence of the chasing and gesticulating. If he didn't even bother to consult, I'd be adding that fact to the sudden seeding scandal and getting five...

Agree he should have consulted - don't know if he did. Mind you, if the assistant referee had seen a handball he should have been making that clear to the ref anyway.

[New Corrie]

Of course no ROI player has ever cheated. This whinging from a country that gave Roy Keane all those caps, a player who admittedly tried to end another player's career.

Nae Luck!

Mon the French:sauzee:

[Peevemor]

Agree he should have consulted - don't know if he did. Mind you, if the assistant referee had seen a handball he should have been making that clear to the ref anyway.

He did. They spoke for about 10 seconds.

[O'Rourke3]

Just wait until France line up against England in the semi or final of the WC and see how many folks think this game should have been replayed when France emerge as winners.

There was a case for FIFA censuring France until the FAI demanded a reply. Only game I can ever remember being replayed was the game in which Estonia failed to show up to a home leg and the walk-over awarded to Scotland was overturned by another country in the qualifying group whose country happended to be the same as the president of the organisation.

[Sas_The_Hibby]

Just wait until France line up against England in the semi or final of the WC and see how many folks think this game should have been replayed when France emerge as winners.

There was a case for FIFA censuring France until the FAI demanded a reply. Only game I can ever remember being replayed was the game in which Estonia failed to show up to a home leg and the walk-over awarded to Scotland was overturned by another country in the qualifying group whose country happended to be the same as the president of the organisation.

As an Englishman, I can reassure you all that, even if England were to reach such dizzy heights, they'd be just as likely to lose (on penalties, of course) to Ireland! :greengrin

[Andy74]

:confused: That must have been in the Irish translation of the interview he gave in French. In the English translation that I heard, he only acknowledged that he had handled the ball and that the officials should have given a free kick against him.

Yep, which is all that happened. I can't believe some of the total guff I've been reading on this and seeing all day.

Princess di has a lot to answer for. People didn't use to go in for mass hysteria did they?

[blueisthecolour]

Well, surprise sur-****in'-prise.
Care to explain why you have singled me out from the other posters who voted the same as me?

[Removed]

Care to explain why you have singled me out from the other posters who voted the same as me?

I think you know the answer to that one :agree:

[Baldy Foghorn]

Care to explain why you have singled me out from the other posters who voted the same as me?

Fairly obvious is it not.... Your team is against everything Catholic/Republican, thus this is why you are happy...... Hardly rocket science

[blueisthecolour]

Fairly obvious is it not.... Your team is against everything Catholic/Republican, thus this is why you are happy...... Hardly rocket science

The problem seens to be a lot of people sterotype, I gave an honest opinion yet people think my opinion is based on being a rangers fan.

For the record, if I was ever to make it as a pro footballer (bit old now) I could have played for Scotland and ROI.

As for my team do they not employ a former ROI international to help coach the youngsters, but why let facts get in the way of someone having a dig.

[lapsedhibee]

For the record, if I was ever to make it as a pro footballer (bit old now) I could have played for Scotland and ROI.
A pedant writes:
:hmmm: Not many peeps get to play for two countries, do they? I think mibbe Di Stefano, Puskas, a few others?

[blueisthecolour]

A pedant writes:
:hmmm: Not many peeps get to play for two countries, do they? I think mibbe Di Stefano, Puskas, a few others?
Only the greats:wink:

[marinello59]

Only the greats:wink:

:hilarious

[hibsbollah]

Agree with all that except restarting matches part-way through. Replay the whole match or nothing. In the original venue, with the original crowds paying original admission prices.

I disagree. With careful use of a set square and a protractor, all games could be restarted from the original point of controversy. By placing tracing paper over a still shot from original TV footage, the players' positions could be exactly replicated.

I like the admission prices idea though:thumbsup:

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

There is not a chance that this game will be re-played but the cheats-tag will follow France around for this tourney at least. I would like to hear Platini make a statement either to either condem or endorse this behaviour. Not sure that would be forthcoming though. More likely..:blah::blah::blah:.

However, if officials can look retrospectively and impose bans for violence and spitting etc, surely a case can be made to ban Henry for a specified amount of competitive internationals on the basis of unsportsmanlike conduct? Maybe 8 to 10 games and rule him out of the world cup?:rules:

[Baldy Foghorn]

The problem seens to be a lot of people sterotype, I gave an honest opinion yet people think my opinion is based on being a rangers fan.

For the record, if I was ever to make it as a pro footballer (bit old now) I could have played for Scotland and ROI.

As for my team do they not employ a former ROI international to help coach the youngsters, but why let facts get in the way of someone having a dig.

Without having a dig, can I ask you if you join in when the sash is being sung?

[blueisthecolour]

Without having a dig, can I ask you if you join in when the sash is being sung?

I don't see why that would matter, I admit I used to sing the all the songs when I was younger, yes even the uvf ones ect, maybe young, naive, uneducated, but there comes a time usally when you start a family or get in to a mixed relationship and you realise what your singing about and wonder why.

Anyway don't let this thread go off topic, it happens all the time.

[Bayern Bru]

Lapsed Hibee's opinion.

Having seen video footage over and over, and listening to his own answer, it seems deliberate - he said something along the lines of "I handled it but it wasn't deliberate."

The video seems to suggest otherwise, but that's just my opinion. All the furore following it has blown it out of proportion.

I'm not even sure what to think anymore! :dizzy:
I see what you're saying though. I just wish I made more sense.
:boo hoo:

[CropleyWasGod]

However, if officials can look retrospectively and impose bans for violence and spitting etc, surely a case can be made to ban Henry for a specified amount of competitive internationals on the basis of unsportsmanlike conduct? Maybe 8 to 10 games and rule him out of the world cup?:rules:

For deliberate handball? Can't see it. A yellow card at most.

[Bayern Bru]

Care to explain why you have singled me out from the other posters who voted the same as me?

A little bit of light hearted humour - sorry I didn't include a little smiley face to help you out.
I've stuck up for you time and again on this board. I'm obviously not the kind of person who stereotypes others, otherwise I'd have you down as a typical Rangers fan which I don't.
:dummytit:

[blueisthecolour]

A little bit of light hearted humour - sorry I didn't include a little smiley face to help you out.
I've stuck up for you time and again on this board. I'm obviously not the kind of person who stereotypes others, otherwise I'd have you down as a typical Rangers fan which I don't.
:dummytit:


Ok mate, just used to getting the stick now, tbh I didn't even check to see who it was that said it, but I would have put money on it being hibby andy or blackpool hibs:devil:

[Baldy Foghorn]

I don't see why that would matter, I admit I used to sing the all the songs when I was younger, yes even the uvf ones ect, maybe young, naive, uneducated, but there comes a time usally when you start a family or get in to a mixed relationship and you realise what your singing about and wonder why.

Anyway don't let this thread go off topic, it happens all the time.

Fair enough, honest answer....

[blackpoolhibs]

Fair enough, honest answer....

Yip fair answer, he used to be a bigotted hun, he admits that.

[Bayern Bru]

Ok mate, just used to getting the stick now, tbh I didn't even check to see who it was that said it, but I would have put money on it being hibby andy or blackpool hibs:devil:

:thumbsup:
No worries sir.

[ScottB]

No, for so many reasons...

1. France should have had a penalty, so even within that game, it balances out. Kinda.

2. Sets a dangerous precedent, we will be having matches replayed left right and centre.

3. So would most likely result in the introduction of video evidence, which is something I'm not keen on.

and finally, 4. I doubt any of us made as much fuss when Maradona did something probably even more cynical, so shhh :greengrin

[Septimus]

Replay? No

Ban for Henry? No. A bookable offence and no more.

The real problem is that referees cannot possibly control what happens in the box on the run up to corners and free kicks perhaps an addition official or two would not go amiss.

[Steve-O]

Replay? No

Ban for Henry? No. A bookable offence and no more.

The real problem is that referees cannot possibly control what happens in the box on the run up to corners and free kicks perhaps an addition official or two would not go amiss.

Deliberate handball directly leading to a goal? Potential for a red card that I would think.

[NGP]

No to a replay.

Henry cheated, he got away with it.

If he dived to win a penalty, people would not be looking for a replay but a ban for Henry - why is this different for a deliberate hand ball.

No replay - 2 match ban for TH.

[lapsedhibee]

If he dived to win a penalty, people would not be looking for a replay but a ban for Henry - why is this different for a deliberate hand ball.

Why is diving different from handball?

Diving is a deliberate attempt to deceive the referee. Handball is not. If a defender on the goal line reaches up and punches a netbound shot over the bar, it is a foul. There is no attempt to deceive the referee. Henry made no attempt to deceive the referee at any time, as far as I could see. The referee missed a clear foul.

[Steve-O]

Why is diving different from handball?

Diving is a deliberate attempt to deceive the referee. Handball is not. If a defender on the goal line reaches up and punches a netbound shot over the bar, it is a foul. There is no attempt to deceive the referee. Henry made no attempt to deceive the referee at any time, as far as I could see. The referee missed a clear foul.

Surely by doing it he was hoping to get away with it though?

[Teo10]

End of the Day, Henry summed it up (And FYI I cannot stand him!!). He is not the ref....

It's football, ***** happens.... You win some and you lose some

Time to move on, reading the papers today I actually feel bad for him, Henry isn't the first and wont be the last to do something like this, yet is being made out to be the **** of the earth. We all thought Maradonna was god-like for that Hand of God because no one really likes England but because it happens to a "Home Country" we should call for his head.

Theres nothing else that needs to be said on the matter. No danger should there be a replay, Imagine if it happened how many teams would appeal for one!

Saying that I hope France and that ******** Domenech get PUMPED!

Forza Italia:agree:

[BravestHibs]

France strips the next time we play Celtic anyone?

[Part/Time Supporter]

Deliberate handball directly leading to a goal? Potential for a red card that I would think.

That only applies if the player is preventing an opposition goal (eg Charlie Mulgrew v Hibs last season).

[jdships]

I voted YES but with reservations , if I had voted NO it would also have been with reservations

My reason for voting yes was simply that here was a player who is an "icon" and of the highest quality and repute blatantly cheating.
Worse is, he is now admitting it and saying "I'm not the referee" !!
WOW ! That's it then ? Everything's is OK so let's move on !

Sorry can't buy that . There has to be some "retribution " for what is surely "bringing the game into disrepute "

Anyone going to have a bet FIFA will do anything about it ?
Not a chance !!

:confused::rolleyes:

[jdships]

Surely by doing it he was hoping to get away with it though?

:top marks
My thought's exactly !!!!!!!!!

:thumbsup:

[Baw187]

Interesting read in this thread. It really is a mine field.

One additional thought taking in to account that some people think Henry should bve punished. What are you wanting him to be punished for? A handball? If the offence was noticed at the time, he'd have probably not even been booked tbh.

So why would we retrospectivly punish him now???? 10 game ban???

Well, if FIFA don't want video technology, and they are admitting that refs can't see everything... then why don't they instigate a program that encourages players (probably the captain) of each team to have the opportunity to come forward and admit when they CLEARY believe that there was an offence in the lead up to a goal or important event.

If they don't, and the event progresses as normal i.e a goal is given or a sending off is dished out, and TV later shows that there was a CLEAR offence, then the player stands to be banned.

I guess some will pick holes in this but it's possibly something that could be worked on.

[lapsedhibee]

Surely by doing it he was hoping to get away with it though?

Is the defender on the goal line who punches the ball over the bar necessarily 'hoping to get away with it'? He might be one of those rocket surgeon fitballers who calculates the odds about his team being a player down for however long is left in the game against the chances of the resultant penalty being missed and decides to punch; or it might be an entirely unconsidered reaction. Every so often on MOTD you see defenders in the box inexplicably raise their hands to the ball when there's no apparent reason for doing so - no serious goal threat, not ball played man, inexplicable, not premeditated at all. They do it, apparently as a sort of involuntary twitch, and accept the consequences - as Henry would have, if the referee/lino had spotted the foul.

I would have preferred to see Henry not celebrate the goal, and instead go to the ref and tell him exactly what happened. But there's no way he should be expected to do so, as it's completely counter to the prevailing culture in fitba. The thought of serial divers like McGeady getting hot under the collar about Henry is absolutely hilarious.

[BravestHibs]

Like Guinness, they're not bitter. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Thierry_Henry&oldid=326715091 (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Thierry_Henry&oldid=326715091)

[Steve-O]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/internationals/8368100.stm

No go for the replay.

[Steve-O]

Is the defender on the goal line who punches the ball over the bar necessarily 'hoping to get away with it'? He might be one of those rocket surgeon fitballers who calculates the odds about his team being a player down for however long is left in the game against the chances of the resultant penalty being missed and decides to punch; or it might be an entirely unconsidered reaction. Every so often on MOTD you see defenders in the box inexplicably raise their hands to the ball when there's no apparent reason for doing so - no serious goal threat, not ball played man, inexplicable, not premeditated at all. They do it, apparently as a sort of involuntary twitch, and accept the consequences - as Henry would have, if the referee/lino had spotted the foul.

I would have preferred to see Henry not celebrate the goal, and instead go to the ref and tell him exactly what happened. But there's no way he should be expected to do so, as it's completely counter to the prevailing culture in fitba. The thought of serial divers like McGeady getting hot under the collar about Henry is absolutely hilarious.

Sometimes these 'on the line' efforts the player puts their hand near their head to try and deceive the ref.

Sometimes it's obvious they are just stopping the goal and are not going to get away with it.

The two things may be handball, but otherwise they are completely different. How can you say that Henry wasn't trying to get away with it when he DID get away with it? His cheating paid off, he deceived the referee. Whether you think the ref should've seen it or not is neither here nor there.

[lapsedhibee]

How can you say that Henry wasn't trying to get away with it when he DID get away with it? His cheating paid off, he deceived the referee. Whether you think the ref should've seen it or not is neither here nor there.

I can say that because trying to do something and actually doing it are different.
For example, I can spill a pint sometimes without trying to do it. I can try to pass myself off as an intelligent Hun without achieving it. Trying and doing are not the same thing. The fact that Henry got away with his foul says nothing whatsoever about his intentions.

[Hank Schrader]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/internationals/8368100.stm

No go for the replay.

Was never going to happen anyway.

There should be repercussions for Henry though. Be it a ban for a couple of games at next years WC or something, his lack of sportsmanship and intergrity should not go unpunished in my opinion.

[Steve-O]

I can say that because trying to do something and actually doing it are different.
For example, I can spill a pint sometimes without trying to do it. I can try to pass myself off as an intelligent Hun without achieving it. Trying and doing are not the same thing. The fact that Henry got away with his foul says nothing whatsoever about his intentions.

Well I think he intended to handle, wanted to get away with it (or else why do it?), and did so.

[Peevemor]

Was never going to happen anyway.

There should be repercussions for Henry though. Be it a ban for a couple of games at next years WC or something, his lack of sportsmanship and intergrity should not go unpunished in my opinion.

Nonsense. The match officials are to blame, no-one else.

[Steve-O]

Nonsense. The match officials are to blame, no-one else.

Tsk, French loving bassa :greengrin

[lapsedhibee]

Well I think he intended to handle, wanted to get away with it (or else why do it?), and did so.

As I've tried to say, and as John Collins argued the other day, an initial handball is often an involuntary reaction - if you look at the replays of the French goal you'll see Gallas's arm start to rise towards the ball before he 'realises' he can get his head to it.

If I had to guess I'd say the 'second' touch by Henry was unthought through - and if he had time to think anything at all in the millisecond between the 'first' and 'second' touches, it may have been just that the whistle was about to blow and it didn't really matter what else he did.

Many posters are describing the whole incident as if Henry was playing out the whole scenario in his head in real time in the same way that pundits are dragging out the slomo replays.

If the norm in fitba is to own up to handball - which it isn't - then crucify Henry. Otherwise it's just a witchhunt, not entirely manufactured but undoubtedly aided and abetted by Francophobe tabloids.

[Peevemor]

Tsk, French loving bassa :greengrin

:greengrin

I wanted Ireland to win (though I have no great love for them despite my ancestry), mainly because as a "neutral" it pains me to see what Domenech has done to a great team. Okay Zidane undoubtedly had a lot to do with their recent success, but they should still be a lot better than they are playing.

The media here are also going mental about the whole thing. For some time there's been a huge anti Domenech bias and the feeling is that France shouldn't be reduced to relying on a dodgy goal in a play off game to qualify for the finals. I don't think many would argue with that.

The stick that Henry is getting for chancing his arm is unbelievable. Had a foul for handball been given, people would no longer be talking about the incident even though Henry's offence would have been no better or worse.

[Broken Gnome]

Roy Keane has lambasted the Republic of Ireland's attempts to get their controversial World Cup play-off match against France replayed.

The Republic appealed to Fifa after their 2-1 aggregate defeat by France on the basis that the winning goal came after a blatant Thierry Henry handball.

But Ipswich boss Keane said: "They can complain all they want but France are going to the World Cup - get over it.

"France were there for the taking and Ireland didn't do it. Same old story."

The Irishman, who made 65 appearances for the Republic as a player, continued: "If I'd been there in the dressing room after the game, I wouldn't be talking about the handball. I'd focus on why the defenders didn't clear it. They should've cleared it.

"I'd be more annoyed with my defenders and my goalkeeper than Thierry Henry. How can you let the ball bounce in your six-yard box? How can you let Thierry Henry get goal-side of you? If the ball goes into the six-yard box, where the hell is my goalkeeper?


Sure that will appease Shay Given right enough.

[basehibby]

Back on topic - YES, the game should be replayed. FIFA have already effectively cheated the smaller european nations by deciding to change the rules mid-competition to favour the larger nations by introducing seeding to the play-off draw.

In order to stop their reputation completely dissappearing into the sleaze FIFA should definately make a stand over this as France have won the tie with a piece of blatant cheating.

I don't agree that this is the same as any old football match - it was a decider for the WC finals - winning a match like that can boost a country's economy and given that cheating is supposed to be the subject of a clampdown at the moment, it would be ridiculous if the result was allowed to stand.

[matty_f]

:greengrin

I wanted Ireland to win (though I have no great love for them despite my ancestry), mainly because as a "neutral" it pains me to see what Domenech has done to a great team. Okay Zidane undoubtedly had a lot to do with their recent success, but they should still be a lot better than they are playing.

The media here are also going mental about the whole thing. For some time there's been a huge anti Domenech bias and the feeling is that France shouldn't be reduced to relying on a dodgy goal in a play off game to qualify for the finals. I don't think many would argue with that.

The stick that Henry is getting for chancing his arm is unbelievable. Had a foul for handball been given, people would no longer be talking about the incident even though Henry's offence would have been no better or worse.

Massive fuss over what could easily have been a nothing incident if the ref had spotted it.

I actually agree with Henry's after match comments - the ball hit his hand, yes I think there was some intent, maybe not initially but certainly in the process of handling it - but all he did was play to the whistle.

Are we saying we now want players to draw the ref's attention to every foul they commit? If they steal a couple of yards at a throw in should they shout the ref over so they can take it at the correct spot?

If they break from a defensive wall earlier than they should, are they to hold their hands up and ask that the kick gets re-taken?

If they slide in and foul someone but the ref sees it as a fair tackle, are they to stop the game?

Any one of the listed incidents could be in the run up to a goal, or be entirely inconsequential to the game. Henry's is no different, IMHO.

Yes, it was a handball, yes it was wrong, but it's not the crime of the century and there will have been other incidents in the game that went unseen by the referee.

[silverhibee]

No replay for me.

[Dinkydoo]

I voted yes. Sim ply because of what happend to Scotland against Italy with that soul destroying freekick :grr:

It was our freekick if any!!

Sorry, I'm making a mess - spilled my lunch down myself :faf:

Anyway, I think that it's only fair that the game gets replayed........

.........but this is football; and life isn't fair :devil:

[rubber mal]

Don't be ridiculous.

[heretoday]

If the authorities want to stop this sort of thing happening they'll have to swamp the touchline with refs, allow video replays etc. Let them get on with it then. They do it in Rugby and Tennis, although the pace of each of those sports is naturally slower anyway than footer.

Do what's required but don't give me the pious stuff about Henry please. And as for players being role models?

No, please......

[Bad Martini]

No danger, they might take it further and get the game with England and Argentina replayed and Diego might not reach the ball this time.

That said, if we ARE looking to allow replays, I'd like Scotland to replay England and this time see someone take Gazza out before he does the damage, see Hibs replay Celtic in that bloody Scottish Cup Final that Larsson run and take him out and finally, see the final of the world cup, between 65 and 67 replayed with someone ON the line watching for an illegal dodgy goal NOT going in....

Do all that, and I'll vote FOR the replay. Til then, accept it Ireland and welcome to the world......where the Italians cheated us last time oot and indeed, where we get shafted all the time in Scotland.

ENDOF :thumbsup:

[s.a.m]

:greengrin

I wanted Ireland to win (though I have no great love for them despite my ancestry), mainly because as a "neutral" it pains me to see what Domenech has done to a great team. Okay Zidane undoubtedly had a lot to do with their recent success, but they should still be a lot better than they are playing.

The media here are also going mental about the whole thing. For some time there's been a huge anti Domenech bias and the feeling is that France shouldn't be reduced to relying on a dodgy goal in a play off game to qualify for the finals. I don't think many would argue with that.

The stick that Henry is getting for chancing his arm is unbelievable. Had a foul for handball been given, people would no longer be talking about the incident even though Henry's offence would have been no better or worse.


Massive fuss over what could easily have been a nothing incident if the ref had spotted it.

I actually agree with Henry's after match comments - the ball hit his hand, yes I think there was some intent, maybe not initially but certainly in the process of handling it - but all he did was play to the whistle.

Are we saying we now want players to draw the ref's attention to every foul they commit? If they steal a couple of yards at a throw in should they shout the ref over so they can take it at the correct spot?

If they break from a defensive wall earlier than they should, are they to hold their hands up and ask that the kick gets re-taken?

If they slide in and foul someone but the ref sees it as a fair tackle, are they to stop the game?

Any one of the listed incidents could be in the run up to a goal, or be entirely inconsequential to the game. Henry's is no different, IMHO.

Yes, it was a handball, yes it was wrong, but it's not the crime of the century and there will have been other incidents in the game that went unseen by the referee.


I agree with you both. Nothing really to add to that, other than I'm sorry that the game was settled that way.

[CropleyWasGod]

I voted yes. Sim ply because of what happend to Scotland against Italy with that soul destroying freekick :grr:

It was our freekick if any!!

Sorry, I'm making a mess - spilled my lunch down myself :faf:

Anyway, I think that it's only fair that the game gets replayed........

.........but this is football; and life isn't fair :devil:

Hmm... still on about THAT free kick, when Italy had a good goal chalked off and our goal shouldn't have stood.

:rolleyes:

[Dashing Bob S]

Won't happen. Sets too much of a precedent. Manchester United will probably get to play every game they lose if that was to be the case.

And let's not even talk about the OF up here.

No, let this injustice be the catalyst for change and the introduction of vid technology.

[cwilliamson85]

I said yes as in my opinion if Ireland had scored a goal with a handball on the run up it would never have been given or the French appeal would have been accepted the next again morning after the game.

[jodjam]

they never replayed the game when Webb-Ellis ran with the ball so no chance here.

[BravestHibs]

I said yes as in my opinion if Ireland had scored a goal with a handball on the run up it would never have been given or the French appeal would have been accepted the next again morning after the game.

How d'you get that?

[marinello59]

I said yes as in my opinion if Ireland had scored a goal with a handball on the run up it would never have been given or the French appeal would have been accepted the next again morning after the game.

Erm.nope, I don't think so. Although I do love a good conspiracy theory.:greengrin

Roy Keane is right. The French were there for the taking and Ireland didn't do enough. It is unfortunate that they lost a goal in this manner but the reaction is well OTT. Politicians getting involved? Good grief.:bitchy:

[hibiedude]

The game should not be replayed but why should someone who clearly cheated be allowed to benifit.

Should the player face a ban ? :greengrin

[Removed]

FIFA have informed the FAI that the French Football Federation have agreed to replay the second half of extra time from their recent world cup play-off game. The game will be replayed in Stade de France with Ireland playing from right to left.