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joe breezy
17-11-2009, 01:31 PM
Thought this press cutting on Kerrydale Street was quite interesting. A Hun at my work years ago used to delight in telling me Hibs were the first sectarian club

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/8189/hibs.jpg

Petrie's Tache
17-11-2009, 01:35 PM
As the saying goes "class is permanent".:thumbsup::notworthy:

--------
17-11-2009, 01:41 PM
Reading that para, I think you may just have maybe got the date wrong - "No enquiry into religion was ever made...."

I read that to mean that the club was open to anyone right from the start - 1875, in other words.

But many thanks - nice find and another wee sidelight into the club history. :top marks

Jonnyboy
17-11-2009, 01:41 PM
Thought this press cutting on Kerrydale Street was quite interesting. A Hun at my work years ago used to delight in telling me Hibs were the first sectarian club

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/8189/hibs.jpg

It's a popular myth perpetuated by Rangers and Hearts fans Joe.

HFC was founded by Catholics and in its formative years it was a condition that any Catholic playing for the club should be practising and not lapsed. There's a difference between 'you must be Catholic to play for Hibs' and 'if you're a Catholic and play for Hibs you must be a practising Catholic and not lapsed.'

The sad thing is that the club would have willingly allowed any decent players to join regardless of their religion but because Irish immigrants were not welcome in Edinburgh nobody of a non Catholic persuasion wanted to join the club.

Keith_M
17-11-2009, 01:42 PM
Thought this press cutting on Kerrydale Street was quite interesting. A Hun at my work years ago used to delight in telling me Hibs were the first sectarian club

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/8189/hibs.jpg


I don't mean to sound cynical but it would be really easy to create something like that. Without more details as to what the document is that it's part of, it's not exactly something that would stand up as 'evidence' of anything.

I suppose I'm just playing Devil's Advocate here, because it's the first thing you'll get asked if you show it to anybody.

joe breezy
17-11-2009, 01:50 PM
I don't mean to sound cynical but it would be really easy to create something like that. Without more details as to what the document is that it's part of, it's not exactly something that would stand up as 'evidence' of anything.

I suppose I'm just playing Devil's Advocate here, because it's the first thing you'll get asked if you show it to anybody.

It's as good as you get I think. Recorded history in black and white, the writer is a Protestant.

Football was a massive sport then as it is now. Imagine the furore if Petrie wrote to the paper with blatant lies, there would be quite a kerffuffel.

Much of our understanding of history is built on less, to be devil's advocate against it you'd need to present contradictory evidence, no?

Keith_M
17-11-2009, 02:01 PM
It's as good as you get I think. Recorded history in black and white, the writer is a Protestant.

Football was a massive sport then as it is now. Imagine the furore if Petrie wrote to the paper with blatant lies, there would be quite a kerffuffel.

Much of our understanding of history is built on less, to be devil's advocate against it you'd need to present contradictory evidence, no?

Sorry mate, I didn't mean to sound like I doubted this. It's just that it doesn't actually mention where it's from, the name of the person quoted, newspaper, date, etc.

TBH, the minute you said it was from Kerrydale St, my anti-OF, cynical, suspicous nature kicked in. :wink:

joe breezy
17-11-2009, 02:05 PM
Sorry mate, I didn't mean to sound like I doubted this. It's just that it doesn't actually mention where it's from, the name of the person quoted, newspaper, date, etc.

TBH, the minute you said it was from Kerrydale St, my anti-OF, cynical, suspicous nature kicked in. :wink:

The newspaper and date is:

Scottish Sport, January 22nd 1889

Some of the posters on Kerrydale Street don't seem too bad to be fair

Keith_M
17-11-2009, 02:06 PM
The newspaper and date is:

Scottish Sport, January 22nd 1889

Some of the posters on Kerrydale Street don't seem too bad to be fair


Cool, sounds genuine then.


Though I do have issues about the last sentence in your post :wink:

joe breezy
17-11-2009, 02:10 PM
Cool, sounds genuine then.


Though I do have issues about the last sentence in your post :wink:

Indeed, I had to research fan forums for my work at one point and it was the only Old Firm I could read through without steam coming out my ears. Some with delusions of grandeur but nowhere near as bad as others.

erin go bragh
17-11-2009, 04:36 PM
Thought this press cutting on Kerrydale Street was quite interesting. A Hun at my work years ago used to delight in telling me Hibs were the first sectarian club

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/8189/hibs.jpg
according to the book by alan lugton[hibernian the early years]
it was not till 1891[after some smeltic directors shafted us] also says we stopped playing between 89/91
and that we were the first non sectarian club in scotland when we started up again in 1891

NORTHERNHIBBY
17-11-2009, 04:47 PM
Thought this press cutting on Kerrydale Street was quite interesting. A Hun at my work years ago used to delight in telling me Hibs were the first sectarian club

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/8189/hibs.jpg


Does he take equal delight in the fact that his team are now the last sectarian club?

hibbybrian
17-11-2009, 05:07 PM
Thought this press cutting on Kerrydale Street was quite interesting. A Hun at my work years ago used to delight in telling me Hibs were the first sectarian club

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/8189/hibs.jpg

One of the players mentioned is James Brogan who signed for Hibs from Beith in 1883 and after scoring a fair amount of goals (including at least 6 goals in a 10-0 Scottish Cup win over Edina) then signed for Hearts at the end of the 1883-1884 season. He signed for Bolton after Hearts toured Lancashire later that year. I don't have any data that indicates he was a Protestant, although his baptismal records may be available somewhere.

I haven't found any reference to the player Higgins yet, but the records from that era are somewhat sparse :grr:

Part/Time Supporter
17-11-2009, 05:13 PM
One of the players mentioned is James Brogan who signed for Hibs from Beith in 1883 and after scoring a fair amount of goals (including at least 6 goals in a 10-0 Scottish Cup win over Edina) then signed for Hearts at the end of the 1883-1884 season. He signed for Bolton after Hearts toured Lancashire later that year. I don't have any data that indicates he was a Protestant, although his baptismal records may be available somewhere.

I haven't found any reference to the player Higgins yet, but the records from that era are somewhat sparse :grr:

There was a Sandy Higgins (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandy_Higgins,_Snr.) in that period who played for Killie (and once for Scotland (http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/football_player_profile.cfm?page=823&playerID=113103&squadID=1)). No mention of him playing for Hibs on wiki or the sfa sites though. Mind that Hibs signed quite a lot of Ayrshire players in that early period (eg James McGhee came from Lugar).

Green_one
17-11-2009, 05:23 PM
I think you need to admit that Hibs employed pretty strict criteria for playing for them. As one poster described, basically a church going Catholic.

The key for me at that time is this. The guys who were playing for Hibs would not have got a game for anyone else based on their religeon and nationality. So, in order to play at all, they needed to form a club of their own. Even then, people tried to stop them.

Its a bit like black football teams in South Africa. No way would they get to play the whites at one time so they formed their own teams and often just played other blacks.

Perhaps they took it a little far but I cannot see this as 'sectarian'. They were clearly NOT bigotted. More restrictive, like FP rugby clubs. They were not excluding others, more INCLUDING themselves. BY 91, at the latest, even this was all gone and they were clearly stated as open to all. Meantime Rangers took their bile into the 21 century.

hibbybrian
17-11-2009, 05:40 PM
There was a Sandy Higgins (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandy_Higgins,_Snr.) in that period who played for Killie (and once for Scotland (http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/football_player_profile.cfm?page=823&playerID=113103&squadID=1)). No mention of him playing for Hibs on wiki or the sfa sites though. Mind that Hibs signed quite a lot of Ayrshire players in that early period (eg James McGhee came from Lugar).

Good spot :thumbsup: I'll check back for any reference to him


I think you need to admit that Hibs employed pretty strict criteria for playing for them. As one poster described, basically a church going Catholic.

The key for me at that time is this. The guys who were playing for Hibs would not have got a game for anyone else based on their religeon and nationality. So, in order to play at all, they needed to form a club of their own. Even then, people tried to stop them.

Its a bit like black football teams in South Africa. No way would they get to play the whites at one time so they formed their own teams and often just played other blacks.

Perhaps they took it a little far but I cannot see this as 'sectarian'. They were clearly NOT bigotted. More restrictive, like FP rugby clubs. They were not excluding others, more INCLUDING themselves. BY 91, at the latest, even this was all gone and they were clearly stated as open to all. Meantime Rangers took their bile into the 21 century.

Also a bit like Ferranti Thistle and Civil Service Strollers being restricted to playing employees :greengrin

vahibbie
17-11-2009, 05:42 PM
On the Hibs CD on one of the "history of Hibs" segments it does say that we were a Catholics only club when we first formed. We became non-sectarian after we re-formed. We were even denied promotion to Div 1 the first season after that because of "lingering" doubts about our non-sectarian policy.

Brizo
17-11-2009, 06:19 PM
My understanding was that when we were formed it was under the auspices of the St Pats CYMS (Catholic Young Mens Society) and Hibernian was only one of a number of leisure activites which that Society ran specifically for the young Catholic men of that parish. Canon Hannans main objective was to arrange activities to keep the young Catholics in a slum parish away from the temptations of drink and crime.

My understanding was that the player Brogan was a Catholic however didnt attend mass and was let go because he was not a practising Catholic. The main criteria of the CYMS were that first and foremost you had to be a practising Catholic and attend mass which then opened up the CYMS social activities such as Hibs to church members.

Were the early Hibs sectarian ? No more so than any social activitity run by a Church for church members. Certainly not "sectarian" in the way that word is used nowadays in a Scottish fitba context. I find that most of those who play the Hibs were a sectarian club card are usually characters trying to divert attention from their own clubs and own supports failings in that particular area.

Part/Time Supporter
17-11-2009, 06:37 PM
On the Hibs CD on one of the "history of Hibs" segments it does say that we were a Catholics only club when we first formed. We became non-sectarian after we re-formed. We were even denied promotion to Div 1 the first season after that because of "lingering" doubts about our non-sectarian policy.

I think there were more underhand considerations regarding that. It wasn't automatic promotion then, as the first division clubs elected whoever they wanted out of the second division. They voted for Clyde, who finished third in the second division, rather than Hibs (who won it) or Cowlairs (who were second). The fact that Cowlairs were also overlooked tends to go against the sectarian point. It looks more like a case of the first division clubs electing a club that would be easier to beat, certainly that's what Mackay says in his books.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1893-94_in_Scottish_football

Mackay also notes that Hibs wrote to the EEN moaning about "the unfair and biased critcism of our team". Another example of the Hibs bias in the EEN!

Purple & Green
17-11-2009, 09:48 PM
Frank Higgins played a couple of games for Hibs in 1884/85. There's little information about him, but he is mentioned in Lugton I. He seems to have been a reserve player that played in a couple of friendlies.

Sir David Gray
17-11-2009, 10:04 PM
There's a book that I used for my higher History class a few years ago that mentions Hibs briefly during a timeline of something (I can't remember what) and it basically says that Hibs were a sectarian club until a certain year (I can't remember the year either) when we finally ended the policy of only allowing Roman Catholics to play for us.

Ever since I read that book, I have been under the impression that Hibs were a sectarian club during our early years and I've no doubt that anyone else who has read that same book will think the same.

So if it's a load of rubbish, Hibs should be asking the people who publish the books to change that bit.

Maybe someone who does higher History just now will know the book I mean.

superfurryhibby
18-11-2009, 09:08 AM
Thought this press cutting on Kerrydale Street was quite interesting. A Hun at my work years ago used to delight in telling me Hibs were the first sectarian club

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/8189/hibs.jpg

Interesting wee snippet there JB. I think it has been widely accepted that Hibs were indeed "sectarian" prior to their re-constitution in 1888-89. The basis was that the club were exclusively Catholic and demanded that it's players were actively practising that faith.

Aside from Kerrydale St, do you know the source of that cutting?

Anyway, no matter, the Hun at work needed reminded that we were enlightened enough to become an open club one hundred years before they did and that the circumstances were rather different. As Alan Lugton in his "Making of Hibernian" points out, non-protestants were very unlikely to have wanted to play for Hibs in the early days. The club had a focus on (Catholic) charitable work and a very strong political outlook which embraced Irish Home Rule. Hardly likely to endear them to many Scottish Presbyterians.

Phil D. Rolls
18-11-2009, 09:27 AM
Interesting wee snippet there JB. I think it has been widely accepted that Hibs were indeed "sectarian" prior to their re-constitution in 1888-89. The basis was that the club were exclusively Catholic and demanded that it's players were actively practising that faith.

Aside from Kerrydale St, do you know the source of that cutting?

Anyway, no matter, the Hun at work needed reminded that we were enlightened enough to become an open club one hundred years before they did and that the circumstances were rather different. As Alan Lugton in his "Making of Hibernian" points out, non-protestants were very unlikely to have wanted to play for Hibs in the early days. The club had a focus on (Catholic) charitable work and a very strong political outlook which embraced Irish Home Rule. Hardly likely to endear them to many Scottish Presbyterians.

I thought that Rangers were an open club in their early years, and it was only around WW1 that the polcy changed.

WindyMiller
18-11-2009, 09:31 AM
I thought that Rangers were an open club in their early years, and it was only around WW1 that the polcy changed.


I'm sure I've read that they were open in the early years but changed in a definite attempt to be the opposite of Celtic.

superfurryhibby
18-11-2009, 04:17 PM
I thought that Rangers were an open club in their early years, and it was only around WW1 that the polcy changed.

You may well be right, Bill Murray's " The Old Firm-Sectarianism , Sport and Society" would give a good outline of how this developed. I recall that there was a link to shipyards (Harland and Wolf?) and the immigrant workers from Belfast that may have pushed them further towards a bigotted stance over religion and players. I remember that it was a bit earlier than WW1, the latter years of the 19th, very early 29th century. I don't believe that their motivation was entirely based on the strength of their religious convictions, rather more the business advantage gained from the opposing of the "Irish" teams.

Viva_Palmeiras
20-05-2018, 05:53 AM
The newspaper and date is:

Scottish Sport, January 22nd 1889

Some of the posters on Kerrydale Street don't seem too bad to be fair

Although the only publication on the British Newspaper Archives on that date appears to The Scotsman.

https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/search/results/1889-01-22/1889-01-22?NewspaperTitle=The%2BScotsman&IssueId=BL%2F0000540%2F18890122%2F&County=Midlothian%2C%20Scotland

greenginger
20-05-2018, 07:43 AM
There was another publication, the Edinburgh Courant , around until the end of the 19th century.

There is is an online archive for it.

lapsedhibee
20-05-2018, 08:02 AM
It's as good as you get I think. Recorded history in black and white, the writer is a Protestant.

Football was a massive sport then as it is now. Imagine the furore if Petrie wrote to the paper with blatant lies, there would be quite a kerffuffel.

Much of our understanding of history is built on less, to be devil's advocate against it you'd need to present contradictory evidence, no?

The fat slug at Level 5 feeds blatant lies to the papers all the time, and there's no kerfuffle at all.

Sammy7nil
20-05-2018, 08:26 AM
The fat slug at Level 5 feeds blatant lies to the papers all the time, and there's no kerfuffle at all.

It is very true lies are printed everyday in papers and very little is said or done about it.

heidtheba
20-05-2018, 09:26 AM
My understanding was that when we were formed it was under the auspices of the St Pats CYMS (Catholic Young Mens Society) and Hibernian was only one of a number of leisure activites which that Society ran specifically for the young Catholic men of that parish. Canon Hannans main objective was to arrange activities to keep the young Catholics in a slum parish away from the temptations of drink and crime.

My understanding was that the player Brogan was a Catholic however didnt attend mass and was let go because he was not a practising Catholic. The main criteria of the CYMS were that first and foremost you had to be a practising Catholic and attend mass which then opened up the CYMS social activities such as Hibs to church members.

Were the early Hibs sectarian ? No more so than any social activitity run by a Church for church members. Certainly not "sectarian" in the way that word is used nowadays in a Scottish fitba context. I find that most of those who play the Hibs were a sectarian club card are usually characters trying to divert attention from their own clubs and own supports failings in that particular area.

it might be relevant, but not specific to the club, that when St Mary's Halls was inaugurated lord provost William Chambers did th speech and ceremony He actually said that he wouldn't normally open a sectarian building but that in this case it was a privilege because the halls would serve the whole community, catholic or other.

WeeWendy
20-05-2018, 10:08 AM
One of the players mentioned is James Brogan who signed for Hibs from Beith in 1883 and after scoring a fair amount of goals (including at least 6 goals in a 10-0 Scottish Cup win over Edina) then signed for Hearts at the end of the 1883-1884 season. He signed for Bolton after Hearts toured Lancashire later that year. I don't have any data that indicates he was a Protestant, although his baptismal records may be available somewhere.

I haven't found any reference to the player Higgins yet, but the records from that era are somewhat sparse :grr:


James Brogan was born in 1864 in Beith, his birth is recorded in the old parish records (so not the Catholic records) and his parents were married in Barmill (should be Barrmill?) parish of Beith, "according to the forms of the Free Church of Scotland", in 1856.

Brogan's mother was Mary Dickie, and the minister of the Free Church was Matthew Dickie - not sure if they were related but I'm sad enough that I'd find out if I had more credits with scotlandspeople....

ErinGoBraghHFC
20-05-2018, 10:25 AM
There's a book that I used for my higher History class a few years ago that mentions Hibs briefly during a timeline of something (I can't remember what) and it basically says that Hibs were a sectarian club until a certain year (I can't remember the year either) when we finally ended the policy of only allowing Roman Catholics to play for us.

Ever since I read that book, I have been under the impression that Hibs were a sectarian club during our early years and I've no doubt that anyone else who has read that same book will think the same.

So if it's a load of rubbish, Hibs should be asking the people who publish the books to change that bit.

Maybe someone who does higher History just now will know the book I mean.

migration and empire by John Kerr maybe?

Sir David Gray
20-05-2018, 10:45 AM
migration and empire by John Kerr maybe?

Not sure. My post was from 8 and a half years ago so I can barely remember writing this post never mind reading the book from a few years before it! :greengrin

SideBurns
20-05-2018, 11:48 AM
I suppose an easy distinction (if required) to make between Hibs of 1875 & The Huns pre-Mo Johnston was that our club was set up for the advancement of the young, poor Catholic men of the Cowgate.
Rangers, on the other hand, would happily sign people of any religion - unless you were Roman Catholic. It was a distinctly bigoted policy against one creed.

Dashing Bob S
20-05-2018, 12:01 PM
Always been a non sectarian club. I’m sure that I can speak for most Hibs fans when I say that any gun running I did for the IRA was purely to finance my heroin habit. Politics were rarely, if ever, discussed.

NAE NOOKIE
20-05-2018, 01:10 PM
It all depends on your definition of sectarian. Hibs were formed by Catholics to improve the lot of the Catholic community, you had to be a practising Catholic to be a member .... that's not the same as saying you cant join because you are a protestant, a subtle but important difference.

Two modern examples would be:

The black policeman's association, where by definition you have to be black to join ... yet there's no suggestion they are racist.

The British Legion .... They will accept anybody these days, just so long as you sign a bit of paper saying you owe allegiance to the queen and her crew. Yet there's no suggestion they are discriminating against republicans :greengrin

The history is very interesting, but what really matters is the here and now and the fact is Hibs haven't had any policy about who plays for the club for well over 100 years .... these days the attitudes of our fan base tend to be driven by the social and political views of the areas its largely drawn from rather than any religious influence, north and east Edinburgh certainly leans slightly more to the left and towards Scottish independence than other parts of the city, so our support reflects that ... but even then not in a particularly 'in yer face' sort of way, and certainly not to the extent that the fans have any notion to use the club as a vehicle for political activism .... unlike some other clubs, who quite frankly should adopt the motto 'look at me' in their badge :greengrin

HibeeHibernian4
20-05-2018, 02:53 PM
I think Nae Nookie sums it up nicely, we don't need to rub our political leanings in other people's faces, but I do view Hibs as a left leaning club as a whole. Obviously, that's not to say there aren't people who think differently in our support, and they're no less of a Hibs fan than myself for their politics. I also like that we can respect and recognise our Irish roots without feeling the need to cynically market and brand our entire club on our links to the old country.

Lancs Harp
20-05-2018, 03:50 PM
We even have english fans now. :wink:

Interesting thread fellas :thumbsup:

Mibbes Aye
20-05-2018, 04:25 PM
You may well be right, Bill Murray's " The Old Firm-Sectarianism , Sport and Society" would give a good outline of how this developed. I recall that there was a link to shipyards (Harland and Wolf?) and the immigrant workers from Belfast that may have pushed them further towards a bigotted stance over religion and players. I remember that it was a bit earlier than WW1, the latter years of the 19th, very early 29th century. I don't believe that their motivation was entirely based on the strength of their religious convictions, rather more the business advantage gained from the opposing of the "Irish" teams.

I think you've got this spot on. It's easy to stoke hate and differentiation, but the key question is who benefits?

If you have power or money, and that is threatened because of a change in the labour market or in business, then the pragmatic thing to do is paint somebody as the "other" and the "threat". There are lots of groups we can make as hate targets' should we choose, just depends on who you choose and what the buy-in from the populace is.

The other side is my family were Irish immigrants in the mid-nineteenth century. Like most immigrants they were portrayed by some as a threat. And in fairness, my great-great-relatives probably took rubbish jobs that undercut folk who were born and bred in Edinburgh.

That's what they did to survive. That's what most immigrants do. It's all they can do.

We shouldn't be drawn into conversations that look backwards (while respecting our history). I don't think Canon Hannan would have any issue with where we are trying to go now as a club.

The work of the Hibernian Community Foundation is massive, and under-reported and under-praised. The work around men's health, emotional,physical and mental, looks very successful. It's been a neglected area but one that needs attention.

I'm proud of my club, just as a fan and supporter, but I'm prouder still that we have an ethos that is genuinely about supporting our communities. Our club might have started as a thing to stop young Irish Catholic labourers getting drunk and causing bother in the centre of Edinburgh :greengrin but it has evolved into something so much more.

Viva_Palmeiras
20-05-2018, 05:30 PM
Could anyone get the link to image shack to work?
Can find any references to either of the publications...

Iggy Pope
20-05-2018, 05:58 PM
I think you've got this spot on. It's easy to stoke hate and differentiation, but the key question is who benefits?

If you have power or money, and that is threatened because of a change in the labour market or in business, then the pragmatic thing to do is paint somebody as the "other" and the "threat". There are lots of groups we can make as hate targets' should we choose, just depends on who you choose and what the buy-in from the populace is.

The other side is my family were Irish immigrants in the mid-nineteenth century. Like most immigrants they were portrayed by some as a threat. And in fairness, my great-great-relatives probably took rubbish jobs that undercut folk who were born and bred in Edinburgh.

That's what they did to survive. That's what most immigrants do. It's all they can do.

We shouldn't be drawn into conversations that look backwards (while respecting our history). I don't think Canon Hannan would have any issue with where we are trying to go now as a club.

The work of the Hibernian Community Foundation is massive, and under-reported and under-praised. The work around men's health, emotional,physical and mental, looks very successful. It's been a neglected area but one that needs attention.

I'm proud of my club, just as a fan and supporter, but I'm prouder still that we have an ethos that is genuinely about supporting our communities. Our club might have started as a thing to stop young Irish Catholic labourers getting drunk and causing bother in the centre of Edinburgh :greengrin but it has evolved into something so much more.

Absolutely.
On the back of my thread earlier this month ref the latter Diaspora I've done a bit of digging into my forefathers and one or two of the occupation descriptions on birth certificates defy belief in the modern age.

Mikers110
20-05-2018, 06:14 PM
Absolutely.
On the back of my thread earlier this month ref the latter Diaspora I've done a bit of digging into my forefathers and one or two of the occupation descriptions on birth certificates defy belief in the modern age.

My mother, God bless her, died this week, and a bigger Celtic supporter you couldn't find. Luckily I bucked the family trend, although she always had a soft spot for Hibs in a very unpatronising way. However both side of my family were very much Irish Catholic and found themeselves in Edinburgh in the late 1800's. I have also done a lot of genealogy research and the jobs my forefathers undertook to survive would make you weep; everything from scavangers to miners.

Iggy Pope
20-05-2018, 06:25 PM
My mother, God bless her, died this week, and a bigger Celtic supporter you couldn't find. Luckily I bucked the family trend, although she always had a soft spot for Hibs in a very unpatronising way. However both side of my family were very much Irish Catholic and found themeselves in Edinburgh in the late 1800's. I have also done a lot of genealogy research and the jobs my forefathers undertook to survive would make you weep; everything from scavangers to miners.

Quite so my friend.

Glory Lurker
20-05-2018, 07:08 PM
We shouldn't be drawn into conversations that look backwards (while respecting our history). I don't think Canon Hannan would have any issue with where we are trying to go now as a club.

The work of the Hibernian Community Foundation is massive, and under-reported and under-praised. The work around men's health, emotional,physical and mental, looks very successful. It's been a neglected area but one that needs attention.

I'm proud of my club, just as a fan and supporter, but I'm prouder still that we have an ethos that is genuinely about supporting our communities. Our club might have started as a thing to stop young Irish Catholic labourers getting drunk and causing bother in the centre of Edinburgh :greengrin but it has evolved into something so much more.

Love this.

JimBHibees
20-05-2018, 07:48 PM
My mother, God bless her, died this week, and a bigger Celtic supporter you couldn't find. Luckily I bucked the family trend, although she always had a soft spot for Hibs in a very unpatronising way. However both side of my family were very much Irish Catholic and found themeselves in Edinburgh in the late 1800's. I have also done a lot of genealogy research and the jobs my forefathers undertook to survive would make you weep; everything from scavangers to miners.

Sorry to hear your news. RIP your mum.

BullsCloseHibs
20-05-2018, 07:59 PM
Thought this press cutting on Kerrydale Street was quite interesting. A Hun at my work years ago used to delight in telling me Hibs were the first sectarian club

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/8189/hibs.jpg

And the Rangers were still willfully a practising sectarian club up and until recently (some might still say they are). There is no comparison.

lapsedhibee
20-05-2018, 08:08 PM
And the Rangers were still willfully a practising sectarian club up and until recently (some might still say they are). There is no comparison.

Sectarian singing yes but not sectarian signing - shirley that stopped quite a while ago?

Pagan Hibernia
20-05-2018, 09:30 PM
according to the book by alan lugton[hibernian the early years]
it was not till 1891[after some smeltic directors shafted us] also says we stopped playing between 89/91
and that we were the first non sectarian club in scotland when we started up again in 1891

does this mean, like the six year old Rangers, our history started in 1891 and not 1875?

Eyrie
20-05-2018, 10:13 PM
does this mean, like the six year old Rangers, our history started in 1891 and not 1875?

We stopped playing matches for a short period before resuming.

Huns RIP were liquidated and its assets were sold to a new club called Sevco.

Mikers110
20-05-2018, 11:32 PM
Sorry to hear your news. RIP your mum.

Thanks.

Pagan Hibernia
20-05-2018, 11:51 PM
My mother, God bless her, died this week, and a bigger Celtic supporter you couldn't find. Luckily I bucked the family trend, although she always had a soft spot for Hibs in a very unpatronising way. However both side of my family were very much Irish Catholic and found themeselves in Edinburgh in the late 1800's. I have also done a lot of genealogy research and the jobs my forefathers undertook to survive would make you weep; everything from scavangers to miners.

Yes mate. Terrible time losing any parent, my thoughts go out to you

andybev1
21-05-2018, 09:21 AM
Thought this press cutting on Kerrydale Street was quite interesting. A Hun at my work years ago used to delight in telling me Hibs were the first sectarian club

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/8189/hibs.jpg


I opened an account to view this but there is nothing there?