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Petrie's Tache
17-11-2009, 01:20 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/internationals/8363594.stm


Interesting quotes from JC:

"As Graeme Souness said the other day, no-one is going to come in with a magic wand and turn us into a fantastic football team," said Collins, who won 58 caps.
"There is a lot of work to be done and it will be one stage at a time.
"The role of any manager in the world is to take a group of players and make them better, make them perform at their peak.
"It's not always an easy thing to do but the objective is to make them better individually and collectively, make them harder to score against, more creative when they've got the ball."




And worrying ones from Jumbo Jim:


"The one thing I've always said with Scotland is, 'It's not how you play,'" he continued.
"People travel and spend a lot of money to see the team get a result. Because they don't play every week, it doesn't matter how they play.
"It's about qualifying and getting the points and not losing, because they've not got the same quality as a lot of the nations.





One seems to be wanting to move forward and the other making us hard to beat and a bit of "hoof" added.

Sandy
17-11-2009, 01:22 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/internationals/8363594.stm


Interesting quotes from JC:

"As Graeme Souness said the other day, no-one is going to come in with a magic wand and turn us into a fantastic football team," said Collins, who won 58 caps.
"There is a lot of work to be done and it will be one stage at a time.
"The role of any manager in the world is to take a group of players and make them better, make them perform at their peak.
"It's not always an easy thing to do but the objective is to make them better individually and collectively, make them harder to score against, more creative when they've got the ball."




And worrying ones from Jumbo Jim:


"The one thing I've always said with Scotland is, 'It's not how you play,'" he continued.
"People travel and spend a lot of money to see the team get a result. Because they don't play every week, it doesn't matter how they play.
"It's about qualifying and getting the points and not losing, because they've not got the same quality as a lot of the nations.





One seems to be wanting to move forward and the other making us hard to beat and a bit of "hoof" added.

One the Hibs way, one the Yams way :cool2:

Petrie's Tache
17-11-2009, 01:24 PM
would appear so Sandy.

H18sry
17-11-2009, 01:30 PM
JC with Alex Miller as no 2 anybody :wink:

Wilson
17-11-2009, 01:30 PM
One is a seasoned campaigner who knows a thing or two about getting results from mediocre teams. The other a hopeless ideallist who failed to do (for whatever reasons) what he is preaching when he had the chance at club level.

Like it or not Jim Jeffries is the sane choice for the job out of those two.

Hopefully Levein takes the role.

Petrie's Tache
17-11-2009, 01:33 PM
I think given the fact that Levien, Smith and McAllister are not quoted makes me think these are the main targets.

--------
17-11-2009, 01:36 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/internationals/8363594.stm

Interesting quotes from JC:

"As Graeme Souness said the other day, no-one is going to come in with a magic wand and turn us into a fantastic football team," said Collins, who won 58 caps. "There is a lot of work to be done and it will be one stage at a time. The role of any manager in the world is to take a group of players and make them better, make them perform at their peak. It's not always an easy thing to do but the objective is to make them better individually and collectively, make them harder to score against, more creative when they've got the ball."

And worrying ones from Jumbo Jim:

"The one thing I've always said with Scotland is, 'It's not how you play,'" he continued. "People travel and spend a lot of money to see the team get a result. Because they don't play every week, it doesn't matter how they play. It's about qualifying and getting the points and not losing, because they've not got the same quality as a lot of the nations."

One seems to be wanting to move forward and the other making us hard to beat and a bit of "hoof" added.


I hate to say it, mate, but with the players Scotland have right now, a fair degree of pragmatism - hard to beat, hit 'em on the break - may be the best way forward.

One of Burley's mistakes may well have been to move away from the pragmatic approach and try to be too fancy....

Sir David Gray
17-11-2009, 01:37 PM
Csaba Laszlo is 12/1 with Sky Bet, according to Sky Sports News. :shocked:

Judas Iscariot
17-11-2009, 01:40 PM
Csaba Laszlo is 12/1 with Sky Bet, according to Sky Sports News. :shocked:

:faf:

How funny would that be :greengrin

Infact, Shabby, Square Napper or Jumbo Jim would be hilarious :top marks

blaikie
17-11-2009, 01:43 PM
http://bettingzone.oddschecker.com/football/football-specials/scotland-specials/next-permanent-manager
Leo Beenhakker 10/1 :greengrin

Jonnyboy
17-11-2009, 01:44 PM
Csaba Laszlo is 12/1 with Sky Bet, according to Sky Sports News. :shocked:

So in essence Shabby could move from the employment of one megolomaniac who is completely and utterly power mad, to another :greengrin

Marabou Stork
17-11-2009, 01:46 PM
Beenhaaker would be an excellent choice. I doubt the SFA would get him in, but I'd love to see him.

MrSmith
17-11-2009, 01:57 PM
Wouldn't want John to be manager! definitely prefer him to spearhead change in direction of Scottish Football as a whole!! He could become the main man, booting out Gordo Smitty as he is useless, leading us into a new era similar to France but employing real footballers from Scotalnd.

We need rid ourselves of the three associations SFA/SFL/SPL and change it to, simply...Scottish Football! or Scottish Football Authority. There is no association in Scottish Fottball, there is nothing tying it together its all disjointed and disfigured, at the moment considering it is run by West Coast mercenaries, Rangers and Celtic sycophants and to a lesser extent the Scottish Media or is that meedja?!

Time is right now for change! everything is rotten in Scottish Football and it's time to put it out of its misery and move on..........tba

Peevemor
17-11-2009, 01:58 PM
Wouldn't want John to be manager! definitely prefer him to spearhead change in direction of Scottish Football as a whole!! He could become the main man, booting out Gordo Smitty as he is useless, leading us into a new era similar to France but employing real footballers from Scotalnd.

We need rid ourselves of the three associations SFA/SFL/SPL and change it to, simply...Scottish Football! or Scottsih Football Authority. Ther is no association in Scottish Fottball at the moment considering it is run by West Coast mercenaries, Rangers and Celtic sycophants and to a lesser extent the Scottish Media or is that meedja?!

Time is right now for change! everything is rotten in Scottsih Football and it's time to put it out of its misery and move on..........tba

I agree with all of that.

crewetollhibee
17-11-2009, 02:30 PM
Notice that Guus Hiddink is at 20/1. That's what we need right now, someone who would come in and shake up them lazy, complacent ****-wits at the SFA. As with Clough all them years ago with the FA though, they won't appoint anyone who will upset their little apple-cart. Sorry, but for me, Uncle Wattie is a stick-on. :boo hoo:

Hibs90
17-11-2009, 02:49 PM
Wouldn't want John to be manager! definitely prefer him to spearhead change in direction of Scottish Football as a whole!! He could become the main man, booting out Gordo Smitty as he is useless, leading us into a new era similar to France but employing real footballers from Scotalnd.

We need rid ourselves of the three associations SFA/SFL/SPL and change it to, simply...Scottish Football! or Scottish Football Authority. There is no association in Scottish Fottball, there is nothing tying it together its all disjointed and disfigured, at the moment considering it is run by West Coast mercenaries, Rangers and Celtic sycophants and to a lesser extent the Scottish Media or is that meedja?!

Time is right now for change! everything is rotten in Scottish Football and it's time to put it out of its misery and move on..........tba

:top marks

But it will never happen. I'd be quite happy with JC in charge of Scotland. Not so happy with Jeffries though.

hibsbollah
17-11-2009, 03:01 PM
I would love Collins to get it, just on the basis of it sending jakeyback.com into total apoplexy:grr::grr::grr::devil:

haagsehibby
17-11-2009, 03:02 PM
Beenhaaker would be an excellent choice. I doubt the SFA would get him in, but I'd love to see him.

Beenhakker - what a brilliant name for a footballer / manager. Translated from the Dutch is "Legchopper" :greengrin

number 27
17-11-2009, 04:00 PM
One is a seasoned campaigner who knows a thing or two about getting results from mediocre teams. The other a hopeless ideallist who failed to do (for whatever reasons) what he is preaching when he had the chance at club level.

Like it or not Jim Jeffries is the sane choice for the job out of those two.

Hopefully Levein takes the role.


Maybe JC and Jumbo could stage some kind of play-off.

I suggest Hampden in the snow :greengrin

ancienthibby
17-11-2009, 04:20 PM
Maybe JC and Jumbo could stage some kind of play-off.

I suggest Hampden in the snow :greengrin

Collins should never be allowed anywhere near a Scottish national team until he has spent 30 successful years elsewhere exorcising his appalling man-management record at Hibs. Was he not the man who was the cause of the biggest player revolt in Scottish football history??

As for Jumbo Jim, don't think so - having paid off Burley's contract to some level, the SFA have nae money to pay compensation to any club.

So that makes it Jimmy Calderwood with Craikie Broon as his assistant!!:devil:

Hibercelona
17-11-2009, 04:37 PM
Collins should never be allowed anywhere near a Scottish national team until he has spent 30 successful years elsewhere exorcising his appalling man-management record at Hibs. Was he not the man who was the cause of the biggest player revolt in Scottish football history??

As for Jumbo Jim, don't think so - having paid off Burley's contract to some level, the SFA have nae money to pay compensation to any club.

So that makes it Jimmy Calderwood with Craikie Broon as his assistant!!:devil:

The players caused it themselves by being lazy bar-stewards. :agree:

ancienthibby
17-11-2009, 04:40 PM
The players caused it themselves by being lazy bar-stewards. :agree:

The same could be said of any number of the current Scottish squad - and you want Collins to manage that???:grr::grr::grr:

Hibercelona
17-11-2009, 04:43 PM
[/B]

The same could be said of any number of the current Scottish squad - and you want Collins to manage that???:grr::grr::grr:

Collins has got the correct attitude. Its getting it through the players egotistical minds thats the problem.

But i'd much rather see him having a go at it than any of the other duds that are being classed as options.

ancienthibby
17-11-2009, 04:47 PM
Collins has got the correct attitude. Its getting it through the players egotistical minds thats the problem.

But i'd much rather see him having a go at it than any of the other duds that are being classed as options.

If it's not happening at the individual clubs, then Collins has nae chance of changing attitudes at 4 or 6 get-togethers per year!! You need to get real!!:devil:

Kaiser1962
17-11-2009, 05:08 PM
The players caused it themselves by being lazy bar-stewards. :agree:

He is dealing with much bigger ego's at Hampden than he was at ER. He will seriously piss off a lot of "established" pro's who are basically not delivering. Do you think the SFA will go for a "new broom" who will gently sweep out the old or a super-duper electrolux who will decimate the establishment and actually expect highly paid players to be able to pass a ball 10 feet? you decide....

Hibercelona
17-11-2009, 05:11 PM
I know JC isn't the perfect appointment.

But who would you rather see over him? :confused:

Mag7
17-11-2009, 05:17 PM
Collins must be in with a good shout. Jury's out on him as a manager, but he still carries a bit of glamour and clout as a 'big name' plus there's no doubting his playing pedigree when it comes to Scotland. He talks a good game and started off great at Hibs so I imagine the SFA will seriously consider him. I remember as soon as he declared his interest in the Hibs job we all pretty much wanted him appointed there and then.

Anyone rather than Levein IMHO.

blackpoolhibs
17-11-2009, 05:25 PM
Collins must be in with a good shout. Jury's out on him as a manager, but he still carries a bit of glamour and clout as a 'big name' plus there's no doubting his playing pedigree when it comes to Scotland. He talks a good game and started off great at Hibs so I imagine the SFA will seriously consider him. I remember as soon as he declared his interest in the Hibs job we all pretty much wanted him appointed there and then.

Anyone rather than Levein IMHO.

When he bailed out at easter road, i said at the time that could work against him in the future. The last thing we need for the national team, is a man who walks away when he does not get what he wants. He still might get the job, there does not seem to be many highly rated managers he needs to beat.

PISTOL1875
17-11-2009, 05:31 PM
If Collins does the job , do you think Kevin Thomson will play for the national team under his reign ??

cockneymike
17-11-2009, 05:32 PM
Collins should never be allowed anywhere near a Scottish national team until he has spent 30 successful years elsewhere exorcising his appalling man-management record at Hibs. Was he not the man who was the cause of the biggest player revolt in Scottish football history??

:agree: Totally agree, to make it worse, of the guys that he successfully pissed off about a four of them are now part of the Scotland squad!
Brown, Thomson, Whittaker, Fletcher

Never JC, I think that Jumbo would at least do as well as Big Eck or Smith did, ie hard to beat, hit on the break, beat the diddy teams, and have a hope against the good teams.

At the end of the day all we can really expect is to get to the World cup qualification play offs, and then it's hope for the best. But with the expanded Euros we should be able to get to that each time, we should ALWAYS be in the top 24 European teams - which it will be in 2016.

lapsedhibee
17-11-2009, 06:02 PM
:agree: Totally agree, to make it worse, of the guys that he successfully pissed off about a four of them are now part of the Scotland squad!
Brown, Thomson, Whittaker, Fletcher

Didn't one or more of them say though that they train much harder at bigger clubs than they did at Hibs (and Fletch, for example, appears to have taken on board (at long, long last) that he needs to improve his right foot) - and so they might not be quite so resistant to JC second time around?

Danderhall Hibs
17-11-2009, 06:56 PM
Was he not the man who was the cause of the biggest player revolt in Scottish football history??



Not sure - Burley's right up there and Mad Vlad had one as well.


If Collins does the job , do you think Kevin Thomson will play for the national team under his reign ??

Only if he picks him. :wink:


Didn't one or more of them say though that they train much harder at bigger clubs than they did at Hibs (and Fletch, for example, appears to have taken on board (at long, long last) that he needs to improve his right foot) - and so they might not be quite so resistant to JC second time around?

Correct. The players we had didn't think they had to work too hard when they were at Hibs and not getting the cash for it - as soon as we punted them they then worked harder. Who's got the wrong mentality?

sahib
17-11-2009, 07:06 PM
Collins is ideal for the job. National manager just talks to the press and picks a squad, gets squad together for some light training then loses game. Generally the post can be strung out for at least one or two qualifying campaigns and a bucket load of pointless friendlies. None of the tartan army know or care anything about football and are happy just to go along and get pissed.

FranckSuzy
17-11-2009, 07:08 PM
I'm maybe being naive here but what about Jim Leishman? Always seemed like a no-nonsense type of guy but with a good sense of humour. Bags of experience too.
:duck:

Danderhall Hibs
17-11-2009, 07:10 PM
Collins is ideal for the job. National manager just talks to the press and picks a squad, gets squad together for some light training then loses game. Generally the post can be strung out for at least one or two qualifying campaigns and a bucket load of pointless friendlies. None of the tartan army know or care anything about football and are happy just to go along and get pissed.

:tee hee:

vanNISHtelroy
17-11-2009, 07:23 PM
As for Jumbo Jim, don't think so - having paid off Burley's contract to some level, the SFA have nae money to pay compensation to any club.


Don't think there would be much reason to worry about compensation tbh. Think there is summat in the contract from when they took voluntary pay cuts.

crewetollhibee
17-11-2009, 07:27 PM
Of course, JC being appointed would put paid to any hopes of an international recall from a certain dissident from across the city. :devil:

judas
17-11-2009, 07:43 PM
How about no JC at all?

2 failures in management not enough?

I laughed out loud when I saw this poor ex manager dare to put his name forward.

The candidates may not be great, but to a man, they are better than Collins is.

Some Hibs fans are so blinkered when it comes to Collins. One genuinely wonders about their level of intellect.

judas
17-11-2009, 07:44 PM
Collins is ideal for the job. National manager just talks to the press and picks a squad, gets squad together for some light training then loses game. Generally the post can be strung out for at least one or two qualifying campaigns and a bucket load of pointless friendlies. None of the tartan army know or care anything about football and are happy just to go along and get pissed.

When you look at it that way, Collins is the man.

Danderhall Hibs
17-11-2009, 07:46 PM
How about no JC at all?

2 failures in management not enough?

I laughed out loud when I saw this poor ex manager dare to put his name forward.

The candidates may not be great, but to a man, they are better than Collins is.

Some Hibs fans are so blinkered when it comes to Collins. One genuinely wonders about their level of intellect.

Where else did he fail? Is winning a cup with Hibs failing?

How many cups have the others won between them? Jeffries, Levein, Craig Brown, Calderwood? I make it just the one between them. Failures the lot of them!

One wonders why some folk base their opinion on dislike rather than fact.

judas
17-11-2009, 07:48 PM
Collins must be in with a good shout. Jury's out on him as a manager, but he still carries a bit of glamour and clout as a 'big name' plus there's no doubting his playing pedigree when it comes to Scotland. He talks a good game and started off great at Hibs so I imagine the SFA will seriously consider him. I remember as soon as he declared his interest in the Hibs job we all pretty much wanted him appointed there and then.

Anyone rather than Levein IMHO.

Yeh. He started out great at Hibs.

Can't imagine how that happened.:wink:

judas
17-11-2009, 07:51 PM
Where else did he fail? Is winning a cup with Hibs failing?

How many cups have the others won between them? Jeffries, Levein, Craig Brown, Calderwood? I make it just the one between them. Failures the lot of them!

One wonders why some folk base their opinion on dislike rather than fact.


What about that Belgian outfit?

Quit your bias.

I like the guy too and I hold great memories of him as a player with Hibs and Scotland, but he couldn't manage to save himself.

Get over it and take the blinkers off for god sake.

Danderhall Hibs
17-11-2009, 07:54 PM
What about that Belgian outfit?

Quit your bias.

I like the guy too and I hold great memories of him as a player with Hibs and Scotland, but he couldn't manage to save himself.

Get over it and take the blinkers off for god sake.

What about the Belgian side? The one where he was given the job of saving them from relegation? Did he do that?

I've not got blinkers on, I just find it disappointing that people have to slate the guy all the time - and most of it's based on pish.

judas
17-11-2009, 08:04 PM
What about the Belgian side? The one where he was given the job of saving them from relegation? Did he do that?

I've not got blinkers on, I just find it disappointing that people have to slate the guy all the time - and most of it's based on pish.

Charleroi were 11th when he joined and 14th when he left.

jonty
17-11-2009, 08:08 PM
Surely the Scotland manager doesn't see them often enough to influence training and players diets?
He needs to be inspirational, motivating, have the ability to pick a team and a wizz and tactics.

I wouldnt associate Collins with those requirements. Levein, yes.
And who's to say Walter Smith wont go looking for his old job (or perhaps become the new Utd manager, leaving the door open for Collins at Ibrox :faf: stranger things have happened.)

keep the faith
17-11-2009, 11:02 PM
What about that Belgian outfit?

Quit your bias.

I like the guy too and I hold great memories of him as a player with Hibs and Scotland, but he couldn't manage to save himself.

Get over it and take the blinkers off for god sake.

I agree. Great player and we had a wonderful day at hampden BUT he has since blagged his way into management and talked a great game, carefully making sure he left as a cup winning, training centre opening success. Strip the suface sheen however and his tactics, man management and motivational qualities are severely lacking.

All these things are understandable if you are learning your trade, but he lacks the humility to admit this, preferring to pontificate on all things football.

Aaaargh I just got started on him again!! Anyway, I dont think he fits the bill as a man who can balance egos, media and limited abilities and get results for just a few days at a time.

Perspective
17-11-2009, 11:30 PM
Amazing how people see things differently.

I think tactically he's spot on. He took a talented but soft-centred Tony Mowbray team and improved it. The early football we played under him was, for me, at a higher level than Mogga's team achieved.

We kept the ball, played from the back and pressed from the front when we lost the ball.

Also, this theory about him sadly lacking in the man-management side of things is a myth. There is a long list of present and past Hibs players who raved about that side of his character. How many managers would have taken the time to train one-to-one with players the way he did with a few of the squad?

He's a bright, forward thinking individual. How many players of his generation or since from Scotland have had the ability or intelligence to play and adapt to a foreign league, far less learn the language fluently? He's the right guy but we are the wrong nation.

blackpoolhibs
17-11-2009, 11:44 PM
What about the Belgian side? The one where he was given the job of saving them from relegation? Did he do that?

I've not got blinkers on, I just find it disappointing that people have to slate the guy all the time - and most of it's based on pish.

Blobby it is then, won the Scottish, saved hibs from relegation, and actually has experience of international football.

basehibby
17-11-2009, 11:47 PM
When he bailed out at easter road, i said at the time that could work against him in the future. The last thing we need for the national team, is a man who walks away when he does not get what he wants. He still might get the job, there does not seem to be many highly rated managers he needs to beat.

:agree: Agreed - much as I like Collins' ideas on the game I think he's still relatively unproven as a manager - of course he won us the LC which was great! But there were a few big disappointments as well what with the player revolt and some questionable signings culminating in his rapid exit.

Of the few rated managers being quoted I'd rate Levein as the best option. But one name I haven't heard quoted is Billy Davies - he's doing well at Nottingham Forest - could the SFA afford him and would he want the job anyway???

basehibby
17-11-2009, 11:56 PM
Beenhaaker would be an excellent choice. I doubt the SFA would get him in, but I'd love to see him.

Just read his career stats on Wiki - reads like a who's who of league and international football :not worth

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leo_Beenhakker

GlesgaeHibby
18-11-2009, 09:13 AM
I agree. Great player and we had a wonderful day at hampden BUT he has since blagged his way into management and talked a great game, carefully making sure he left as a cup winning, training centre opening success. Strip the suface sheen however and his tactics, man management and motivational qualities are severely lacking.

All these things are understandable if you are learning your trade, but he lacks the humility to admit this, preferring to pontificate on all things football.

Aaaargh I just got started on him again!! Anyway, I dont think he fits the bill as a man who can balance egos, media and limited abilities and get results for just a few days at a time.

I guess you didn't see many games under Collins, as more often that not he got his tactics right, and on quite a few occasions tinkered with tactics during a game to ensure the victory.

Look at the 3-2 game with Celtic at ER as a perfect example of tactical genius. He went initially with a 3-5-2 playing Murphy in midfield to man mark Scott Brown, hooked Stevenson after only 26mins as he wasn't performing and changed the shape again. He changed the shape a 3rd time after Celtic equalised and managed to get us a big win.


As to his man management, just speak to the moroccans, Stevenson, Hogg, McCann about him. These players all came on leaps and bounds under Collins.

Where he failed, and he did so badly, was with his signings.

blackpoolhibs
18-11-2009, 09:52 AM
I guess you didn't see many games under Collins, as more often that not he got his tactics right, and on quite a few occasions tinkered with tactics during a game to ensure the victory.

Look at the 3-2 game with Celtic at ER as a perfect example of tactical genius. He went initially with a 3-5-2 playing Murphy in midfield to man mark Scott Brown, hooked Stevenson after only 26mins as he wasn't performing and changed the shape again. He changed the shape a 3rd time after Celtic equalised and managed to get us a big win.


As to his man management, just speak to the moroccans, Stevenson, Hogg, McCann about him. These players all came on leaps and bounds under Collins.

Where he failed, and he did so badly, was with his signings.

And quite a few times he got them spectacularly wrong. International football only has so many games for you to qualify for a tournament. Can we afford to have someone like Collins, who is so inexperienced, and cant abide players with big ego's? He seems more suited to manage the under 21's imho.

Expecting Rain
18-11-2009, 10:11 AM
Sorry but JC must be having a laugh, he doesn`t have the likes of Messi, Inesta,Xavier, Ronaldo or Kaka to pick from, he can`t manage unless he has the best players.

hibsbollah
18-11-2009, 10:17 AM
I guess you didn't see many games under Collins, as more often that not he got his tactics right, and on quite a few occasions tinkered with tactics during a game to ensure the victory.

Look at the 3-2 game with Celtic at ER as a perfect example of tactical genius. He went initially with a 3-5-2 playing Murphy in midfield to man mark Scott Brown, hooked Stevenson after only 26mins as he wasn't performing and changed the shape again. He changed the shape a 3rd time after Celtic equalised and managed to get us a big win.


As to his man management, just speak to the moroccans, Stevenson, Hogg, McCann about him. These players all came on leaps and bounds under Collins.

Where he failed, and he did so badly, was with his signings.

:top marksExactly. That Celtic game was a prime example of what Collins was capable of tactically. Boozy was immense in the back three. Collins couldnt sign a player, but thats not a requirement of an international manager. He also banned all discussion of old firm matters from ER press conferences, and banned the Record from ER after the Katie shenanigans, so theres good signs he'd have the guts to stand up against the West Coast influence.

RIP
18-11-2009, 10:33 AM
Collins should never be allowed anywhere near a Scottish national team until he has spent 30 successful years elsewhere exorcising his appalling man-management record at Hibs. Was he not the man who was the cause of the biggest player revolt in Scottish football history??


The players caused it themselves by being lazy bar-stewards. :agree:

So let me get this right? You are calling Andy McNeill, Kevin McCann, David Murphy, Chris Hogg, Rob Jones, Steven Fletcher and co - lazy barstewards? I suppose Benji and Zemmama were always out on the lash?

Complete and utter bollox!!

blackpoolhibs
18-11-2009, 11:07 AM
:top marksExactly. That Celtic game was a prime example of what Collins was capable of tactically. Boozy was immense in the back three. Collins couldnt sign a player, but thats not a requirement of an international manager. He also banned all discussion of old firm matters from ER press conferences, and banned the Record from ER after the Katie shenanigans, so theres good signs he'd have the guts to stand up against the West Coast influence.

You could also say he got the tactics so spectacularly wrong, he HAD to change them. The game could quite easily have been over by the time he got things right. And at international level, tactics need to be spot on from the start.

hibsbollah
18-11-2009, 11:13 AM
You could also say he got the tactics so spectacularly wrong, he HAD to change them. The game could quite easily have been over by the time he got things right. And at international level, tactics need to be spot on from the start.

I was at the game and didnt see it that way. The best managers change things based on events on the pitch, whether theyre at international level or not.

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18-11-2009, 11:16 AM
I was at the game and didnt see it that way. The best managers change things based on events on the pitch, whether theyre at international level or not.


And his tactics in the CIS game against Motherwell?

Spot on? :cool2:

Collins did start well, but for reasons we can't be certain of (we all have our theories, some of which are more accurate than others, no doubt) he lost the dressing-room.

Burley started badly with Scotland and went on worse, and for various reasons he too lost the players. That needs to be addressed, IMO. Collins woring with an older head MIGHT work, though on mature reflection it didn't work with Toamy C and it's not the best way to appoint a Scotland boss - "He's the best man for the jod as long as Jimmy or Alex or Wullie keeps an eye on him...."

The spasmodic nature of the international game - long spells of preparation, interspersed with short periods of intense activity - would probably minimise relationship problems between Collins and the squad, and provided he got the selection right (he didn't appear to have a great eye for a player when at ER, tbh) it might work.

But I'd rather have someone who had proved himself at a fairly senior club.

But if appointing Collins even for a short time means the final end of Kevin Thomson's and Barry Ferguson's international careers, I'd go with Collins.

Even if he was worse than Burley, it'd be a small price to pay.

hibsbollah
18-11-2009, 11:21 AM
And his tactics in the CIS game against Motherwell?

The Dunfermline Cup semi?

Spot on? :cool2:

Nope. He got plenty wrong as well, the McCann at centreback was the most spectacular. But on balance id say most of his problems were because of the players he bought.

Hibercelona
18-11-2009, 11:28 AM
So let me get this right? You are calling Andy McNeill, Kevin McCann, David Murphy, Chris Hogg, Rob Jones, Steven Fletcher and co - lazy barstewards? I suppose Benji and Zemmama were always out on the lash?

Complete and utter bollox!!

So let me get this right? You are assuming that every single player in the squad was involved in the revolt?

As I recall... It was only a hand full of players no? :confused:

And yes... The one's involved were lazy barstewards. They weren't willing to put in the extra effort to improve themselves as players.

blackpoolhibs
18-11-2009, 11:29 AM
I was at the game and didnt see it that way. The best managers change things based on events on the pitch, whether theyre at international level or not.

I would imagine tactics are more important at international level. Getting them SO wrong, as he certainly did that day, could have made the difference from qualifying for a world cup or not. Imagine your thoughts then? Its not as if collins was some sort of tactical genius, as doddie has suggested further up this thread.

hibsbollah
18-11-2009, 11:36 AM
I would imagine tactics are more important at international level. Getting them SO wrong, as he certainly did that day, could have made the difference from qualifying for a world cup or not. Imagine your thoughts then? Its not as if collins was some sort of tactical genius, as doddie has suggested further up this thread.

I'm not sure that he did:confused: Even before he brought Stevenson off, we were at 1-1 and doing OK IIRC. And its a bit pointless speculating about how i would feel if a Collins mistake stopped us qualifying for a World Cup, when he hasnt even got the job to make said mistake:wink:

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18-11-2009, 11:39 AM
Nope. He got plenty wrong as well, the McCann at centreback was the most spectacular. But on balance id say most of his problems were because of the players he bought.


See #59. Took so long writing it you answered me before i'd got round to answering you. :devil:

He couldn't spot a huddy if that huddy jumped up and bit him on the bum. He would need to be working with - and listening to - someone who really knows the scene in the EPL and Championship, and who's familiar too with the emerging younger players in the SPL. Operative word, listening. I'm not convinced Collins has mastered that art vyet.

There are serious questions about his man-management skills. The very fact that some players (the younger guys) supported him while the older ones were rapidly disenchanted tells me that he failed to unite the squad, and suggests also that he played favourites. This won't work in an international context, IMO. He'd need to be able to get everyone pulling together, and not just for a couple fo games.

And tactically, while he DID manage to get some games right, he got other games spectacularly wrong. His appointment would be a major gamble, and I feel we need a solid appointment - someone tried and tested at club level.

It looks as if the SFA are beginning to favour Levein. I'd be happy with that, tbh - a lot happier than with Collins.

blackpoolhibs
18-11-2009, 11:41 AM
I'm not sure that he did:confused: Even before he brought Stevenson off, we were at 1-1 and doing OK IIRC. And its a bit pointless speculating about how i would feel if a Collins mistake stopped us qualifying for a World Cup, when he hasnt even got the job to make said mistake:wink:

Yes i agree.:greengrin I wouldnt pick him as the manager, but he might be a good choice as under 21 manager. He'd not have all the ego's the full team have, and he could try his ideas out with the younger ones. If he showed with them, he had learnt from his time at easter road, and belgium. Then maybe in the future, he would be able to make the jump up?

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18-11-2009, 11:45 AM
So let me get this right? You are assuming that every single player in the squad was involved in the revolt?

As I recall... It was only a hand full of players no? :confused:

And yes... The one's involved were lazy barstewards. They weren't willing to put in the extra effort to improve themselves as players.


IIRC the 'revolt' involved the majority of the first-team squad. Not 'only a handful of players'.

And the fact is that none of us really know what happened.

One thing I DO know - Collins walked out the day after the club opened a £5,000,000 training centre, accusing the board of a lack of ambition.... :rolleyes:

Bad Martini
18-11-2009, 12:00 PM
What about that Belgian outfit?

Quit your bias.

I like the guy too and I hold great memories of him as a player with Hibs and Scotland, but he couldn't manage to save himself.

Get over it and take the blinkers off for god sake.


He managed to win the League Cup.

As for the bias comments - you wouldn't be that way inclined to be biased towards St Tony though would you??? Ah wait, ye would.

The facts are, yes, Collins man management skills were poor and he made mistakes. So did Mowbray. The facts also show that, this apparently crap manager won us a cup, the only cup I might add, for a less than insignificant number of years.

Were all the other managers we had failures too? They all won NOTHING....


:agree: