Christmas Light Switch on in Dundee

[ArabHibee]

What a joke:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/scotland/article6915007.ece

:bitchy:

[steakbake]

It's either political correctness gone mad or a rare victory for common sense. I cannot decide which, so enraged am I.

[Peevemor]

:crazy: Though I'm surprised they put "white" in the name.

---------- Post added at 10:12 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:11 AM ----------


It's either political correctness gone mad or a rare victory for common sense. I cannot decide which, so enraged am I.

How? It's for christmas (as we know it).

[Betty Boop]

It's either political correctness gone mad or a rare victory for common sense. I cannot decide which, so enraged am I.
:greengrin

[Peevemor]

:Ummm:

[danhibees1875]

'white night'

haha :greengrin


To stay relevant.... totally silly. :agree:

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Disclaimer: To be read as tongue in cheek... but I think there are some interesting points here...

Maybe its use it or lose it...?

Christianity aint what it used to be if the falling attendances at Church are anything to go by. :wink:

Is there not an irony - the apparent lack of interest in religion yet try to mess with a "religious festival" and people are up in arms?

Lets face it Christmas aint what it used to be commercialisation all the way. Think about the children!!! Yes quite...

Religious festival well I understand from wee Frees I know (who dont celebrate Christmas) that its a Pagan festival anyway not a Christian one.

[Jack]

On reading this I read the Wiki entries for Christmas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas)and Christmas controversy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_controversy).

A bit Americanised, no not just Christmas the wiki pages :grr:

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas)
Happy Yuletide :greengrin

[IWasThere2016]

What a joke:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/scotland/article6915007.ece

:bitchy:

:agree: - Cooncil mental .. hence I bide in Angus :wink:

[Woody1985]

Utterly embarrasing. Where do these ****wits come from? Do people actually vote these aresholes into the council or are the just recruited by a HR department?

It's no wonder that the BNP pick up votes, they'll thrive on this type of ****.

People pay council tax to employ these idiots.

[Part/Time Supporter]

What a joke:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/scotland/article6915007.ece

:bitchy:

They have electricity in Dundee? When did this happen?

:confused:

:cool2:

[jonty]

They have electricity in Dundee? When did this happen?

:confused:

:cool2:

A lot longer than St Johnstone has been around :greengrin

[hibbytam]

Nothing sinister. Just some marketing guy trying to expand the market demographic by not discriminating on what bronze age myths you believe in.

Oh and Christmas is much much much older than Jesus.

[Peevemor]

Nothing sinister. Just some marketing guy trying to expand the market demographic by not discriminating on what bronze age myths you believe in.

Oh and Christmas is much much much older than Jesus.

Erm :Ummm:

That's just silly.

[Betty Boop]

Erm :Ummm:

That's just silly.

December 25th was originally celebrated as a Pagan festival.

[Peevemor]

December 25th was originally celebrated as a Pagan festival.

That was the winter solstice and Constantine moved Christmas to coincide with it, but to say Christmas predates Christ is, as I said, just silly.

[Dashing Bob S]

Yes, let's face facts, Christmas for 90% of us remains the pagan festival it's always been, in spite of the best efforts of those god-bothering goons to appropriate it and inject their odious and hypocritical piety into the proceedings.

When I'm sitting down to my turkey and drinking the contents of my cellar and watching a decent movie, I certainly won't be thinking about a daft hippie daddies boy who probably didn't actually exist outside of the fantasies of the local drug addicts and community care cases of the time.

[Sir David Gray]

It's not a surprise to me in the slightest, it's the way this country is going.

Children are taught about, and actively encouraged to embrace, Diwali, Eid and Ramadan, but just don't mention Christmas, kids, it might offend people who aren't Christians. That's to be called a "Winter Festival" instead.

It's all in the name of multiculturalism and diversity, apparently. :rolleyes:

[IWasThere2016]

They have electricity in Dundee? When did this happen?

:confused:

:cool2:

And two Universities. Perth has a prison - and not a lot else :cool2:

[ArabHibee]

:agree: - Cooncil mental .. hence I bide in Angus :wink:

Hence why I bide in Perthshire! :wink:


Thinks its just a sad state of affairs when they start doing stuff like this.

[Jack]

That was the winter solstice and Constantine moved Christmas to coincide with it, but to say Christmas predates Christ is, as I said, just silly.

:faf:

Are you sure? :wink:

[Peevemor]

:faf:

Are you sure? :wink:

I think there's a clue in the name somewhere. :hmmm:

[Jack]

But surely Christ was only called Christ because he was born on Christmas Day? :dunno:

































:stirrer:

:greengrin

[Betty Boop]

It's not a surprise to me in the slightest, it's the way this country is going.

Children are taught about, and actively encouraged to embrace, Diwali, Eid and Ramadan, but just don't mention Christmas, kids, it might offend people who aren't Christians. That's to be called a "Winter Festival" instead.

It's all in the name of multiculturalism and diversity, apparently. :rolleyes:

I bet nobody from the Muslim, Sikh, Hindu or Jewish community complained to Dundee Council about the name of their festival.

[Barney McGrew]

And two Universities. Perth has a prison - and not a lot else :cool2:

Is it not really just one University and a Polytechnic that's been allowed to change it's name?

:devil:

[Twa Cairpets]

It's not a surprise to me in the slightest, it's the way this country is going.

Children are taught about, and actively encouraged to embrace, Diwali, Eid and Ramadan, but just don't mention Christmas, kids, it might offend people who aren't Christians. That's to be called a "Winter Festival" instead.

It's all in the name of multiculturalism and diversity, apparently. :rolleyes:

To take a slightly contrary position, there is a mix up here of religion, christmas and the christmas holiday.

Festive lights, Santa, trees, cards, turkeys - either no link or only the most tenuous link to christianity. What the council have done is give what is now an almost completely unreligious festival undue credibility by being wilfully stupid. The time of the year is known universally (in the West at least) as Christmas. New Year is New Year, Easter is Easter.

Your extension of this stupidity to the wider "issues" you refer to is wrong, unpleasant and unfounded.

[Onceinawhile]

I love how the church voted to express concern.

Nothing like taking the hard line with the council guys.:grr:

[ArabHibee]

"A council spokesman said, “The proposal for the Winter Night Light celebration was approved unanimously at a meeting of the city development committee on Monday, August 24.
“The report (submitted to the committee) explained that the Christmas lights will also be switched on for the first time for the event.”
The spokesman said the event will take place across the city centre, with activities at four venues to encourage people to move between them.
“As has been seen with the injuries at the Christmas lights switch-on in Birmingham, large groups of people congregating in one area can present safety issues for the public,” he said."

So Dundee City Council can see into the future and predicted the problems that happened in Birmingham at the weekend? What a bunch of muppets and a crap excuse for changing a well attended event.

[Sir David Gray]

I bet nobody from the Muslim, Sikh, Hindu or Jewish community complained to Dundee Council about the name of their festival.

Didn't complain about the name of what festival? Sorry if I'm being thick here.

If you're saying what I think you're saying, which is that most people from minority faiths aren't offended in the slightest by the mention, or celebration, of Christmas then I agree completely with you. I don't think Muslims, Sikhs, Jews etc. are offended by Christmas.

Which just makes things like this even more ridiculous.

[ArabHibee]

Didn't complain about the name of what festival? Sorry if I'm being thick here.

If you're saying what I think you're saying, which is that most people from minority faiths aren't offended in the slightest by the mention, or celebration, of Christmas then I agree completely with you. I don't think Muslims, Sikhs, Jews etc. are offended by Christmas.

Which just makes things like this even more ridiculous.

And what of it if they are offended by it? Why does this country pander so much to minorities? :confused:

[sleeping giant]

And what of it if they are offended by it? Why does this country pander so much to minorities? :confused:

:faf:

You in the mood tonight ?:greengrin

[Jack]

The UK is still perceived to be a Christian country, the default setting should be that we openly celebrate Christian festivals.
Maybe we're not?

[Phil D. Rolls]

Is Jesus that old man with the white beard and red coat? He seems to get everywhere at Xmas, it's PC gone mad.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

It's not a surprise to me in the slightest, it's the way this country is going.

Children are taught about, and actively encouraged to embrace, Diwali, Eid and Ramadan, but just don't mention Christmas, kids, it might offend people who aren't Christians. That's to be called a "Winter Festival" instead.

It's all in the name of multiculturalism and diversity, apparently. :rolleyes:

Is Scotland not one nation many cultures? Not too sure what you mean with the last bit - do you think multiculturalism and diversity are a bad thing?

Hopefully not I think Scotland would benefit from more Scots born living outside of our country for a while, seeing how others live and how they see us.

Too much ignorance and you get the consequences of George W Bush actions...

[BravestHibs]

It's not a surprise to me in the slightest, it's the way this country is going.

Children are taught about, and actively encouraged to embrace, Diwali, Eid and Ramadan, but just don't mention Christmas, kids, it might offend people who aren't Christians. That's to be called a "Winter Festival" instead.

It's all in the name of multiculturalism and diversity, apparently. :rolleyes:

What do you mean 'the way this country's going'?

You're also saying that kids aren't taught about christmas?? I honestly can't believe how little you rely on facts when you post. It's like you've cut a branch off a tree, and want to make a spear of nonsense. In order to do this you set about whittling off all the shoots of fact that were emerging from your spear of nonsense to make it more aerodynamic for when you throw it into the torso of secularism.

[marinello59]

I bet nobody from the Muslim, Sikh, Hindu or Jewish community complained to Dundee Council about the name of their festival.

Exactly. It's dim witted Councillors reacting to offence that hadn't (and most likely wouldn't have) been taken in the first place.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

"I think", "I bet"...

Does anyone know anyone from the communities mentioned (e.g. Muslim, Sikh, Hindu or Jewish community)? Even so unlikely to be representative but closer perhaps than other speculation?

[Part/Time Supporter]

And two Universities. Perth has a prison - and not a lot else :cool2:

Perth needs a prison to hold all those Dundee folk nicking stuff from their neighbours.


A lot longer than St Johnstone has been around :greengrin

SJFC - 1884 / 1885 (bit of a dispute re that, officially formed in 1884 but didn't start playing for a while, a bit like the Yams or Celtc)
DFC - 1893
DUFC - 1909 / 1923 (depending on whether you count Dundee Hibs)

[Twa Cairpets]

What do you mean 'the way this country's going'?

You're also saying that kids aren't taught about christmas?? I honestly can't believe how little you rely on facts when you post. It's like you've cut a branch off a tree, and want to make a spear of nonsense. In order to do this you set about whittling off all the shoots of fact that were emerging from your spear of nonsense to make it more aerodynamic for when you throw it into the torso of secularism.

Wow. :top marks

[Phil D. Rolls]

Exactly. It's dim witted Councillors reacting to offence that hadn't (and most likely wouldn't have) been taken in the first place.

I think a lot of the extremities of political correctness come about because people take it on themselves to decide what will offend other people. On top of that we have a group of people whose careers depend on evening out inequalities.

They have to constantly find new things to correct or they are out of a job. I can see comparisons to health promotion - where do all the anti-smoking commisars go now that they have got their way? They move onto alcohol and obesity.

All of these things start with the best of intentions. Unfortunately you then bring in people who, although they know the rules, don't know what they are trying to achieve.

On the other side of the fence you have those who never wanted the rules in the first place, because the world was a great place to be (for them) and why change anything. Add into the mix people who just hate any form of change.

I think that all this defending "our christian values" is just so much nonsense. Ever since I was little, people have been saying "put christ back into christmas". Maybe a regression to a pre-christian definition of the winter solstice is more honest.

From what I can see, most people's christianity is attending church for six weeks prior to their wedding, and the occasional drunken foray to a watchnight service. To me, christmas seems to be a celebration of things christ stood against - greed, selfishness, retreating into the comfort of your own family with no regard for anyone else.

If christianity has lost it's audience in this country, why not remove it from the schedules? At least other religions have retained spirituality in their portfolio. If the best Jesus can hope for is Christmas, the game is lost. (How many of the cards you'll send or recieve this year have any sort of biblical or spiritual theme to them?)

Sorry to bring religion into it by the way.

[Betty Boop]

"I think", "I bet"...

Does anyone know anyone from the communities mentioned (e.g. Muslim, Sikh, Hindu or Jewish community)? Even so unlikely to be representative but closer perhaps than other speculation?

I have Muslim friends who enjoy the Xmas and New Year festivities.

[IWasThere2016]

Perth needs a prison to hold all those Dundee folk nicking stuff from their neighbours.

How do these poor Dundonians make it to Perf and back with stolen merchandise? :cool2:

[Tinyclothes]

What do you mean 'the way this country's going'?

You're also saying that kids aren't taught about christmas?? I honestly can't believe how little you rely on facts when you post. It's like you've cut a branch off a tree, and want to make a spear of nonsense. In order to do this you set about whittling off all the shoots of fact that were emerging from your spear of nonsense to make it more aerodynamic for when you throw it into the torso of secularism.

:top marks

I notice that the thrower of the nonsense spear has gone very quiet.

[jonty]

Aplogies - :hijack:

Perth needs a prison to hold all
those Dundee folk nicking stuff from their neighbours.



SJFC - 1884 / 1885 (bit of a dispute re that, officially formed in 1884 but didn't start playing for a while, a bit like the Yams or Celtc)
DFC - 1893
DUFC - 1909 / 1923 (depending on whether you count Dundee Hibs)

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Who_discovered_electricity_and_when



Mentions of electricity have been found in writings as early as 600BC by the Greek Thales of Miletus.


:greengrin or as TQM would do.... :cool2:


Getting back on topic - I see the lights areon. Assume it's for testing then?

[Part/Time Supporter]

How do these poor Dundonians make it to Perf and back with stolen merchandise? :cool2:

In the back of a prison service van, I would imagine

:faf:

[IWasThere2016]

In the back of a prison service van, I would imagine

:faf:

So they get lifted in Dundee with the gear .. Perf Polis must be framing them! :greengrin

[Phil D. Rolls]

Wid they eat fehv pehs in Pairth or are they too posh?

(Non Tayside contribution to thread).

[LiverpoolHibs]

It's not a surprise to me in the slightest, it's the way this country is going.

Children are taught about, and actively encouraged to embrace, Diwali, Eid and Ramadan, but just don't mention Christmas, kids, it might offend people who aren't Christians. That's to be called a "Winter Festival" instead.

It's all in the name of multiculturalism and diversity, apparently. :rolleyes:

As stupid as it is, it's almost worth it as a noise-up to people who think like this.

[ArabHibee]

How do these poor Dundonians make it to Perf and back with stolen merchandise? :cool2:

In the cars they nick fae posh Monifieth or Ferry folk. :greengrin

[Sir David Gray]

Is Scotland not one nation many cultures? Not too sure what you mean with the last bit - do you think multiculturalism and diversity are a bad thing?

Hopefully not I think Scotland would benefit from more Scots born living outside of our country for a while, seeing how others live and how they see us.

Too much ignorance and you get the consequences of George W Bush actions...

If you're asking me if I think that people of different cultures living in Scotland/UK is a bad thing then the answer to that is no. Although I do think that the situation in some places in England has gone too far.

However, I don't agree with the way that issues such as multiculturalism are handled in this country. I think it is leading to scenarios like the one in that newspaper link in the opening post, whereby anything related to Christianity is being treated like some sort of taboo subject, whereas anything to do with other religions, especially Islam, are given the utmost respect and are openly embraced.


What do you mean 'the way this country's going'?

You're also saying that kids aren't taught about christmas?? I honestly can't believe how little you rely on facts when you post. It's like you've cut a branch off a tree, and want to make a spear of nonsense. In order to do this you set about whittling off all the shoots of fact that were emerging from your spear of nonsense to make it more aerodynamic for when you throw it into the torso of secularism.

You are putting words in my mouth. I did not say that kids aren't taught about Christmas, I said that they are taught about, and encouraged to embrace, festivals such as Eid, Ramadan and Diwali but when it comes to Christmas, or Christianity in general, people don't seem to be quite as quick to embrace it publicly because people on councils, usually atheists, believe that it will somehow offend people of minority faiths.

You only have to look at the recent case of homosexuals, bisexuals and transsexuals being encouraged to deface a copy of the Bible by writing vulgar messages inside it, all of which was publicly funded and partly organised by Glasgow City Council.

There is a not a chance that something like that would have happened with the sacred text of a minority religion. The organisers would have probably been murdered if those messages had been written inside a copy of the Qur'an.

All of that was done in the name of "diversity" as well, by the way. Anyone else see a trend developing here?


:top marks

I notice that the thrower of the nonsense spear has gone very quiet.

I'm sorry, I didn't realise that there was a time limit for responding to posts.

Please accept my apologies, it won't happen again.

[lapsedhibee]

I'm sorry, I didn't realise that there was a time limit for responding to posts.

There's not. You can post whenever the hell you like, so long as everyone's back from Hamilton.

[BravestHibs]

You are putting words in my mouth. I did not say that kids aren't taught about Christmas, I said that they are taught about, and encouraged to embrace, festivals such as Eid, Ramadan and Diwali but when it comes to Christmas, or Christianity in general, people don't seem to be quite as quick to embrace it publicly because people on councils, usually atheists, believe that it will somehow offend people of minority faiths.

Where do you get your information? Are you implying that countrywide, councils are trying to keep christmas a secret, via a manifestation of a crazed atheist agenda, by draping every town in the UK with a garish light display?

You only have to look at the recent case of homosexuals, bisexuals and transsexuals being encouraged to deface a copy of the Bible by writing vulgar messages inside it, all of which was publicly funded and partly organised by Glasgow City Council.

I'll give you christians one thing, you guys are not hypocritical when it comes to your overt homophobia.

There is a not a chance that something like that would have happened with the sacred text of a minority religion. The organisers would have probably been murdered if those messages had been written inside a copy of the Qur'an.

Right I see, so lunatic right wing christians like you, Donald Rumsfeld and George W Bush are TOLERANT not vindictive, little close minded bigots. I'm glad we got to the bottom of that because here was me labouring under the misapprehension that you were the latter, when actually, you are the former.

All of that was done in the name of "diversity" as well, by the way. Anyone else see a trend developing here?

And we'd hate to see those 'coloureds' getting a foothold in our society now wouldn't we?
Just out of interest, even if there was as much hoo haa about ramadan as there was about christmas, why would that bother you so much, doesn't islam have as much right to worship as any other faith, or would you also like to see the dismantling of those loony liberal mandates called 'Human Rights'? Or maybe just for Muslims?
..

[LiverpoolHibs]

If you're asking me if I think that people of different cultures living in Scotland/UK is a bad thing then the answer to that is no. Although I do think that the situation in some places in England has gone too far.

However, I don't agree with the way that issues such as multiculturalism are handled in this country. I think it is leading to scenarios like the one in that newspaper link in the opening post, whereby anything related to Christianity is being treated like some sort of taboo subject, whereas anything to do with other religions, especially Islam, are given the utmost respect and are openly embraced.

I'm not sure what world you live in.

http://enemiesofreason.blogspot.com/2009/10/hmm-remember-this.html

[Twa Cairpets]

If you're asking me if I think that people of different cultures living in Scotland/UK is a bad thing then the answer to that is no. Although I do think that the situation in some places in England has gone too far.

However, I don't agree with the way that issues such as multiculturalism are handled in this country. I think it is leading to scenarios like the one in that newspaper link in the opening post, whereby anything related to Christianity is being treated like some sort of taboo subject, whereas anything to do with other religions, especially Islam, are given the utmost respect and are openly embraced.

Utter nonsense, both in your interpretation of the newspaper article and your wild belief that islam is embraced.


You are putting words in my mouth. I did not say that kids aren't taught about Christmas, I said that they are taught about, and encouraged to embrace, festivals such as Eid, Ramadan and Diwali but when it comes to Christmas, or Christianity in general, people don't seem to be quite as quick to embrace it publicly because people on councils, usually atheists, believe that it will somehow offend people of minority faiths.

Have you any idea how moronically stupid that sentence is? Could you show me where you get your evidence (not anecdotes) that this army of cooncilmen atheists are plotting to avoid offending religions other than Christianity?


You only have to look at the recent case of homosexuals, bisexuals and transsexuals being encouraged to deface a copy of the Bible by writing vulgar messages inside it, all of which was publicly funded and partly organised by Glasgow City Council.

There is a not a chance that something like that would have happened with the sacred text of a minority religion. The organisers would have probably been murdered if those messages had been written inside a copy of the Qur'an.

Untitled 2009 was proposed by the Metropolitan Community Church, a group which is an “inclusive Christian ministry to the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgendered communities.” Their intention of the work was for “gallery visitors [to] suggest ways in which the Bible could be ‘reclaimed as a sacred text.
Link (http://artthreat.net/2009/07/deface-bible-art-exhibi/).
Presumably the wrong type of christian in your eyes?


All of that was done in the name of "diversity" as well, by the way. Anyone else see a trend developing here?
Erm, no, it wasnt. You are mixing up so many moral outrages here it beggars belief.

[Twa Cairpets]

I can see where people get the idea that there is a "rainbow alliance" full of disparate groups - all of whom have a grievance against society, but who have nothing else in common.

Just have a look at the rag tag rent-a-mob who show up at demonstrations. So often you find that they have no personal interest in the protest, rather that they are professional protestors.

The one that summed it up to me was when there was a request to put Tibetan prayer flags on Calton Hill. It just seemed to me that anything was acceptable as long as it was from somewhere else. Because, let's face it, this ain't Tibet, and I'm not aware of a large Tibetan community in Edinburgh.

I hadnt heard (or forgotten about) this. So I looked it up. (http://www.elginism.com/20040420/241/)

Actually, it has nothing to do with imposing Tibetan prayer flags or culture on Calton Hill. It was one architect's rather banal and twee idea for finishing the Disgrace.

You last paragraph is pointless. You're trying to make a point about the blanket acceptance of "foreign culture" using something that didnt happen as an example!

[Phil D. Rolls]

I hadnt heard (or forgotten about) this. So I looked it up. (http://www.elginism.com/20040420/241/)

Actually, it has nothing to do with imposing Tibetan prayer flags or culture on Calton Hill. It was one architect's rather banal and twee idea for finishing the Disgrace.

You last paragraph is pointless. You're trying to make a point about the blanket acceptance of "foreign culture" using something that didnt happen as an example!

I accept that, happy to stand corrected.

In fact, I'm going to delete that misleading post, as that's the way that rumours start off.

[Phil D. Rolls]

I have Muslim friends who enjoy the Xmas and New Year festivities.

There's plenty of Muslims, Hindus and Sikhs down Great Junction Street who enjoy Xmas, counting what's in the till. :greengrin

[Betty Boop]

There's plenty of Muslims, Hindus and Sikhs down Great Junction Street who enjoy Xmas, counting what's in the till. :greengrin

This is so true! :greengrin

[lapsedhibee]

In fact, I'm going to delete that misleading post, as that's the way that rumours start off.

Is it? I didn't know. Where did you hear that? :dunno:

[Phil D. Rolls]

Is it? I didn't know. Where did you hear that? :dunno:

A bloke in the pub told me.

[RyeSloan]

Nice thread!!

Am I the only one that really doesn't make a connection between naming a light ceromony a Winter White ( or Light depending on what part of the article is correct) Night and attacking the sanctity of Christmas.....let's be honest those people who hold a religious belief about Christmas will no doubt already be appaled that the day has been hijacked for an excuse to put lights all over the place in order to encourage people to shop and spend more anyway. So it could possibly be argued that changing the name of such events actually protects the name of Christmas and prevents it from being used for comercial gain!!


It's also rather bizzare to say that there is some concerted movement to deny that Christmas exists as a religious festival and even more bizzare to say that kids don't know about it or are somehow not being taught it compared to other religious events. I can assure you any child I know is well aware of Christmas has little or no idea of what Ramadan might be and no amount of toy town councillors are going to change that!


Finally I can think of nothing more off putting that going along to see the towns winter light display and then having to suffer a talking to from the local minister!!

[wpj]

I just hope no one mistakes it for white knights!

[Phil D. Rolls]

Nice thread!!

Am I the only one that really doesn't make a connection between naming a light ceromony a Winter White ( or Light depending on what part of the article is correct) Night and attacking the sanctity of Christmas.....let's be honest those people who hold a religious belief about Christmas will no doubt already be appaled that the day has been hijacked for an excuse to put lights all over the place in order to encourage people to shop and spend more anyway. So it could possibly be argued that changing the name of such events actually protects the name of Christmas and prevents it from being used for comercial gain!!


It's also rather bizzare to say that there is some concerted movement to deny that Christmas exists as a religious festival and even more bizzare to say that kids don't know about it or are somehow not being taught it compared to other religious events. I can assure you any child I know is well aware of Christmas has little or no idea of what Ramadan might be and no amount of toy town councillors are going to change that!


Finally I can think of nothing more off putting that going along to see the towns winter light display and then having to suffer a talking to from the local minister!!

All you have to do is look at the Christmas cards on display in any house. You'll be hard pushed to find a nativity scene, or religious message amongst the cuddly dogs dressed up as Santa with a tankard of beer in their hand.

Maybe Dumpdee (only joking folks), should have called their winter festival White Lightning, it would be a more appropriate reflection of Xmas revelries.

[hibbytam]

That was the winter solstice and Constantine moved Christmas to coincide with it, but to say Christmas predates Christ is, as I said, just silly.

I meant the previous festivals that had been re-named to fit the christians. But then I wouldn't have reeled anyone in that way...
Basically my point was that the middle of winter has understandably been celebrated in northern Europe especially since humans started farming here. It's name is not important.

[steakbake]

I just like the days off and a rare chance to see my family and put my feet up from my ridiculously busy job when the winter is at it's darkest.

All the religious stuff, the materialism and search for meaning of it is peripheral. You can call it what you like or interpret it how you feel you need to.

I'll have a few days off whenever that's given and whether that's on account of the Christians, the Jews, the Muslims or Hindus, I couldnae gie a flyer.

[Green Mikey]

And what of it if they are offended by it? Why does this country pander so much to minorities? :confused:

Personally, I don't think that this country panders to minorities...rising BNP vote, at war in two Muslim countries, the continuing popularity of the Daily Mail and Sun, new immigration policies for non-EU.

The movement away from the Christian meaning of Christmas closely represents the changes in this country. Why do people think that changing from tradition is do with pandering to minonrities not representing the evolving views of the majority.

[greenlex]

Christmas lights are an increase in electricity consumption and are as such a waste of money and harming the enviroment. They should be banned. :grr:

[ArabHibee]

Personally, I don't think that this country panders to minorities...rising BNP vote, at war in two Muslim countries, the continuing popularity of the Daily Mail and Sun, new immigration policies for non-EU.

The movement away from the Christian meaning of Christmas closely represents the changes in this country. Why do people think that changing from tradition is do with pandering to minonrities not representing the evolving views of the majority.

Aye, sure we don't pander - cooncil leaflets in every language going - for starters. Go to Poland and see how that works over there.

[NaeTechnoHibby]

I might go to the switch oan in Edinburgh on Thursday :greengrin

I'll ask how many are "Christians" :rolleyes:

[steakbake]

Aye, sure we don't pander - cooncil leaflets in every language going - for starters. Go to Poland and see how that works over there.

I'd hardly call that pandering to minorities. Said leaflets are also in braille, large print and on spoken word format. It's just making important information accessible to a point. I think it's a mark of our civilisation that we consider the various citizens who make up society when providing public services. Besides, how would you propose you give information to a Chinese/Urdu/Bengali speaker to help them understand council tax if you don't give them the information? You can also legally insist on sitting your driving test in Welsh anywhere in the UK... a minority here, but a majority in some parts of Wales.

Cancelling Christmas and closing all you can eat buffets during Ramadan, however, would be pandering to minorities.

[hibee_boy]

utterly discusting. Shame on you Dundee City Council......what an "up yours" to Christians.

[steakbake]

utterly discusting. Shame on you Dundee City Council......what an "up yours" to Christians.

Will they turn the other cheek? WWJD?

[ArabHibee]

I'd hardly call that pandering to minorities. Said leaflets are also in braille, large print and on spoken word format. It's just making important information accessible to a point. I think it's a mark of our civilisation that we consider the various citizens who make up society when providing public services. Besides, how would you propose you give information to a Chinese/Urdu/Bengali speaker to help them understand council tax if you don't give them the information? You can also legally insist on sitting your driving test in Welsh anywhere in the UK... a minority here, but a majority in some parts of Wales.

Cancelling Christmas and closing all you can eat buffets during Ramadan, however, would be pandering to minorities.

I'd expect them to learn english and read the leaflets written in english. Just like what I would have to do if I went to live in another country, as in my example, Poland.

Bring on the rants for my totally un-PC views.

[Twa Cairpets]

I'd expect them to learn english and read the leaflets written in english. Just like what I would have to do if I went to live in another country, as in my example, Poland.

Bring on the rants for my totally un-PC views.

Nowt to do with being un-PC, plenty to do with being utterly ludicrous.

Of course, when Brits move to say, Spain, they all become fluid in Spanish dont they? It's a case of being civilised, grown up society. Presumably anyone coming to the country has to be completely fluent in English before they arrive? Anyone looking to find out about how to learn English or access education has to just guess do they?

[Twa Cairpets]

utterly discusting. Shame on you Dundee City Council......what an "up yours" to Christians.

ooohhh moral outrage. Are you offended? Do you feel that your religion is under threat? Or are you just venting pointlessly. By the way, you should write to the Daily Mail to get a job as a headline writer.

[LiverpoolHibs]

I'd expect them to learn english and read the leaflets written in english. Just like what I would have to do if I went to live in another country, as in my example, Poland.

Bring on the rants for my totally un-PC views.

I'm not sure 'un-PC' and 'stupid' are exactly interchangeable terms.

1) What is your (slightly peculiar and obsessive) belief that local councils in Poland don't publish leaflets in languages other than Polish based on? I demand to be furnished with proof!

2) What exactly is it you object to about local councils here publishing leaflets in an array of languages? I can see the positives of helping someone out who would otherwise be completely ****ed, what are the drawbacks as far as you can see?

[Sir David Gray]

I'd expect them to learn english and read the leaflets written in english. Just like what I would have to do if I went to live in another country, as in my example, Poland.

Bring on the rants for my totally un-PC views.

:agree: People who come to live in Britain, and who can't speak English, should have to take mandatory English lessons on their arrival.

It's ridiculous to compare producing information in a foreign language for people who can't speak English, with producing information in braille or large print etc.

People who are blind/deaf cannot communicate in any other way and have no choice in the matter. People who come here from abroad and speak no English can take English lessons but many choose not to.

As for the argument of 'I wonder how many Brits who go to live in Spain, bother to learn Spanish', I couldn't care less what happens in Spain or any other country. Of course if a British person goes to live in a non-English speaking country, they should learn the language but it's up to that particular country to make sure that happens.

My only concern is with what happens in the UK.

[steakbake]

:agree: People who come to live in Britain, and who can't speak English, should have to take mandatory English lessons on their arrival.

It's ridiculous to compare producing information in a foreign language for people who can't speak English, with producing information in braille or large print etc.

People who are blind/deaf cannot communicate in any other way and have no choice in the matter. People who come here from abroad and speak no English can take English lessons but many choose not to.

As for the argument of 'I wonder how many Brits who go to live in Spain, bother to learn Spanish', I couldn't care less what happens in Spain or any other country. Of course if a British person goes to live in a non-English speaking country, they should learn the language but it's up to that particular country to make sure that happens.

My only concern is with what happens in the UK.

Here's a scenario for you. Someone is offered a job - lets say a surgeon. He is from Bangladesh. His English is excellent. He needs English and has learned it from a very early age. He brings with him his wife and kids. The wife, having not needed to so far, does not have a good command of English at all. His kids have learned some at school. They speak Bengali at home.

Will you stop the surgeon from starting his job until all his family can speak English? Are the kids to be excluded from education until they can speak English? Is his wife not to join him in the UK until she can prove she speaks and understands English to a required level?

It's a very real example. There are very few people living in Edinburgh who cannot speak some level of English. Their reading skills might not be the same - try learning a language to speak and then learn to write or read it. Then try learning it if the alphabet or writing system is totally different.

So these leaflets - perhaps there are people who can communicate in English, or get by in it. But if they need particular information, is it best to present this in a format they will immediately understand, or do you insist that they must speak, read and write perfect English?

Presumably you're willing to wait for any council tax to be paid until they can understand the english version leaflet explaining how it works?

[Peevemor]

I'd expect them to learn english and read the leaflets written in english. Just like what I would have to do if I went to live in another country, as in my example, Poland.

Bring on the rants for my totally un-PC views.

That's brutal! :grr:

Why do the Poles have to put up with their councils printing leaflets in English? :bitchy:

[ArabHibee]

Nowt to do with being un-PC, plenty to do with being utterly ludicrous.

Of course, when Brits move to say, Spain, they all become fluid in Spanish dont they? It's a case of being civilised, grown up society. Presumably anyone coming to the country has to be completely fluent in English before they arrive? Anyone looking to find out about how to learn English or access education has to just guess do they?

Ah, the old Spain debate. I specifically chose a country that I know about rather than one that I didn't.

I never said they had to be fluent. And no they don't have to guess, they can get a phrase book and work it out for themselves, just like I had to.


I'm not sure 'un-PC' and 'stupid' are exactly interchangeable terms.

1) What is your (slightly peculiar and obsessive) belief that local councils in Poland don't publish leaflets in languages other than Polish based on? I demand to be furnished with proof!

2) What exactly is it you object to about local councils here publishing leaflets in an array of languages? I can see the positives of helping someone out who would otherwise be completely ****ed, what are the drawbacks as far as you can see?

1) Obsessive? Not sure how you work that one out? Unfortunately, I am unable to furnish you with proof as I've never seen leaflets in Urdhu/Chines/Bengali or any minority language in Poland

2) My objections? The amount of money that is spent on this is the main one, when it would be better spent elsewhere.


:agree: People who come to live in Britain, and who can't speak English, should have to take mandatory English lessons on their arrival.

It's ridiculous to compare producing information in a foreign language for people who can't speak English, with producing information in braille or large print etc.

People who are blind/deaf cannot communicate in any other way and have no choice in the matter. People who come here from abroad and speak no English can take English lessons but many choose not to.

As for the argument of 'I wonder how many Brits who go to live in Spain, bother to learn Spanish', I couldn't care less what happens in Spain or any other country. Of course if a British person goes to live in a non-English speaking country, they should learn the language but it's up to that particular country to make sure that happens.

My only concern is with what happens in the UK.

I agree with you apart from the bit in bold. Think its up to the individual to learn not the country to teach them.


Here's a scenario for you. Someone is offered a job - lets say a surgeon. He is from Bangladesh. His English is excellent. He needs English and has learned it from a very early age. He brings with him his wife and kids. The wife, having not needed to so far, does not have a good command of English at all. His kids have learned some at school. They speak Bengali at home.

Will you stop the surgeon from starting his job until all his family can speak English? Are the kids to be excluded from education until they can speak English? Is his wife not to join him in the UK until she can prove she speaks and understands English to a required level?

It's a very real example. There are very few people living in Edinburgh who cannot speak some level of English. Their reading skills might not be the same - try learning a language to speak and then learn to write or read it. Then try learning it if the alphabet or writing system is totally different.

So these leaflets - perhaps there are people who can communicate in English, or get by in it. But if they need particular information, is it best to present this in a format they will immediately understand, or do you insist that they must speak, read and write perfect English?

Presumably you're willing to wait for any council tax to be paid until they can understand the english version leaflet explaining how it works?

I'll answer Yes to all your questions about the surgeon.
I think you are living in a dream world if you think there are very few people who cannot speak English in Edinburgh. I've come across a lot, normally older members of family, who have no intention of learning our language. Why? No need to.


That's brutal! :grr:

Why do the Poles have to put up with their councils printing leaflets in English? :bitchy:

Not sure if you're being funny or not but if not then who said they had to?

[marinello59]

Ah, the old Spain debate.


Stack or Maka?:confused:

[ArabHibee]

Stack or Maka?:confused:

:tsk tsk: This is a non-football debate.

On the other hand - :tee hee:

[Twa Cairpets]

My objections? The amount of money that is spent on this is the main one, when it would be better spent elsewhere.

If you are going to take the economic argument, then you really need to think it through. The cost of printing (which is something I do know about) different language versions or different languages on a leaflet is minimal.

I would think (and i admit this is only a supposition) that the potential loss of revenue or extra additional indirect costs to the city/nation through lack of information would massively outweigh this.

Your view does smack of rather petty small-mindedness.

[Twa Cairpets]

People who come to live in Britain, and who can't speak English, should have to take mandatory English lessons on their arrival.

And then you could get all up-in-arms about having to pay for English lessons


It's ridiculous to compare producing information in a foreign language for people who can't speak English, with producing information in braille or large print etc.

People who are blind/deaf cannot communicate in any other way and have no choice in the matter. People who come here from abroad and speak no English can take English lessons but many choose not to.

No, its a fair comparison with different specifics. Its about giving people in a society equal access to information. Around 800,000 adults in scotland have very low levels os literacy and numeracy (http://www.literacytrust.org.uk/database/stats/adultstats.html#Scotland). Whilst some, perhaps many, of these people will undoubtedly have learning issues, I'm presuming some had the choice to be able to learn to read and write both as children and adults. If we are a mature and civilised society, we should look after all these people - communication and information is critical to living succesfuly in a developed nation, and access to it is the responsibility of the nation.


As for the argument of 'I wonder how many Brits who go to live in Spain, bother to learn Spanish', I couldn't care less what happens in Spain or any other country. Of course if a British person goes to live in a non-English speaking country, they should learn the language but it's up to that particular country to make sure that happens.
My only concern is with what happens in the UK.

You enjoy living in your splendidly isolated cocoon.

[steakbake]

I'll answer Yes to all your questions about the surgeon.
I think you are living in a dream world if you think there are very few people who cannot speak English in Edinburgh. I've come across a lot, normally older members of family, who have no intention of learning our language. Why? No need to.

Seems like we both need a reality check. I would say that there are not many people in Edinburgh who cannot speak a single word of english. But perhaps you look out for them more than I do?

[Phil D. Rolls]

Seems like we both need a reality check. I would say that there are not many people in Edinburgh who cannot speak a single word of english. But perhaps you look out for them more than I do?

I've never come across any. But then, I suppose they would confine themselves to their own family/community and not put themselves in situations where they don't need to speak English. I certainly can't think of anywhere you would go where you would be guaranteed to meet one - unlike the big cities like London.

[LiverpoolHibs]

:agree: People who come to live in Britain, and who can't speak English, should have to take mandatory English lessons on their arrival.

What's it dependent upon? What happens if they find it so difficult and tortuous that they stop turning up? Or if they just decide not to turn up for whatever reason?

Stuck on the next boat out, aye?


It's ridiculous to compare producing information in a foreign language for people who can't speak English, with producing information in braille or large print etc.

People who are blind/deaf cannot communicate in any other way and have no choice in the matter. People who come here from abroad and speak no English can take English lessons but many choose not to.

As for the argument of 'I wonder how many Brits who go to live in Spain, bother to learn Spanish', I couldn't care less what happens in Spain or any other country. Of course if a British person goes to live in a non-English speaking country, they should learn the language but it's up to that particular country to make sure that happens.

My only concern is with what happens in the UK.

It's always done on 'our' terms isn't it. It's entirely the fault of 'the Other' if there are societal divisions and it's entirely their fault if there's a backlash from the 'host' community because of this.

Apart from the ****ing stinking pettiness (as Two Carpets says) and underlying reactionary resentment of this sort of nasty ****, people don't seem to realise how it feeds into a culture in which racist abuse and attacks become legitimised and the far-right can thrive. The underlying (re)sentiment being, 'you're lucky we are allowing you to be here - adapt, conform and fit in (to a society that is, it increasingly appears, fundamentally antipathetic to your presence) or you're out on your ear'. While Labour attempts to regain ground lost to the BNP - which, historically, is always doomed to failure anyway - through uber-reactionary and racist pronouncements on immigration and 'Britishness' (Brown the other day: And everyone wants to be assured that newcomers will accept the responsibilities as well as the rights that come with living here – they’ll accept the responsibilities to obey the law, to speak English, to make a contribution.) they've been cutting funding for ESOL courses for the past five years.


1) Obsessive? Not sure how you work that one out? Unfortunately, I am unable to furnish you with proof as I've never seen leaflets in Urdhu/Chines/Bengali or any minority language in Poland

2) My objections? The amount of money that is spent on this is the main one, when it would be better spent elsewhere.

So again, what's it based on? Have you just decided to suppose it so as to (in no way) back up your argument?

2) How much does it cost?

[Hibbyradge]

Christmas Light Switch on in Dundee

What's the big deal what it's called?

It's only one light, FFS.

Or are we talking about the switch?

I'm confused.

I'm also half Polish and I can assure the ignoramuses on here that there is a lot more English printed in Polish cities than you'll find Polish in the UK.

Try finding a menu or Museum information in Polish for example.

[Sylar]

Tricky discussion to try and "dip one's toe in", so to speak.

I found, through my time at Uni, that there are a lot of foreign students who come into the country, ABLE to speak/understand English, but chosing not to use it themselves, other than in their studies. Other times, I've no idea how they get into Uni over here at all.

I was in a Postgraduate Engineering course last year at Dundee, and out of a class of 70 students, there were 2 Scots and 6 Brits. The rest were Indian. We had to do assessments of each other based on presentation skill/ability every other week, and constantly, the Indian Students would flounder because they had a sub-standard grasp of the English language. Trying to mark their written efforts was a sodding nightmare, and I would constantly mark them down in peer review, as I couldn't decifer their grammar.

Now, kudos to them for coming to the UK and trying to do a degree in a secondary language (their English was certainly better than my Hindi), but in an academic institution, enforcement of English is a necessity (or should be). In the USA, you have to pass a written, reading and oral Test of English Capability test, and if you fail that, regardless to how much of a genius you are in your field, you're punted back to wherever you came from (be it India, Poland, Afghanistan or Canada :wink:) Sadly, with international students coughing up the best part of £9k per/annum, institutions here cannot afford to turn them away, and actively go out and recruit from these countries.

I'd rather places were taken by home-based students, but being that our places are so heavily subsidised, it's not cost effective for the Universities - the reason I would rather these places went to UK based students is not because I'm a racist/BNP voting/Daily Mail reading Nazi - it's two-fold, in the sense that a) International students don't integrate well into a research environment, as they usually seek comfort (or safety?) in numbers and b) their concept of acceptable behaviour is not what any normal student from the UK would deem appropriate. Going back to my example of Indian students in my Masters course last year, they would think nothing of arriving 15 minutes late, disrupting the lecture theatre as they all find seats together and loudly talking to one another (often translation)* during the lecture.

*Again, I don't speak Hindi, but was told this was the case at our student/staff rep meetings.

Despite this wild tangent, I don't think that Dundee City Council (as vile as I otherwise find them) are "hijacking Christmas". Initially, that WAS my knee jerk reaction, as I had been told that "they were embracing the multicultural aspect of Dundee", but this turned out to be wrong - the Christmas lights in Dundee still read Merry Christmas, the Churches are still heavily involved in the festivities, and Mass will continue to run every Sunday, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday and Saturday, so there's no need to feel that your Christian rights are being interfered with.

I have many friends who are from racially mixed backgrounds and we're all looking forward to spending time with each other and each other's families during the festive period - I'll celebrate Christmas, they won't, but they will spend the Holidays with their families and friends, just like I will, and wouldn't piss and moan about the country shutting down for a few days, despite their non-Christian backgrounds. I've yet to come across a significant portion of migrants to the UK who dislike services stopping over Christmas. Besides, we need some group of people to man the call-centres/corner shops/buses without complaint (tongue firmly in cheek!)

[Twa Cairpets]

Tricky discussion to try and "dip one's toe in", so to speak.

I found, through my time at Uni, that there are a lot of foreign students who come into the country, ABLE to speak/understand English, but chosing not to use it themselves, other than in their studies. Other times, I've no idea how they get into Uni over here at all.

I was in a Postgraduate Engineering course last year at Dundee, and out of a class of 70 students, there were 2 Scots and 6 Brits. The rest were Indian. We had to do assessments of each other based on presentation skill/ability every other week, and constantly, the Indian Students would flounder because they had a sub-standard grasp of the English language. Trying to mark their written efforts was a sodding nightmare, and I would constantly mark them down in peer review, as I couldn't decifer their grammar.

Now, kudos to them for coming to the UK and trying to do a degree in a secondary language (their English was certainly better than my Hindi), but in an academic institution, enforcement of English is a necessity (or should be). In the USA, you have to pass a written, reading and oral Test of English Capability test, and if you fail that, regardless to how much of a genius you are in your field, you're punted back to wherever you came from (be it India, Poland, Afghanistan or Canada :wink:) Sadly, with international students coughing up the best part of £9k per/annum, institutions here cannot afford to turn them away, and actively go out and recruit from these countries.

I'd rather places were taken by home-based students, but being that our places are so heavily subsidised, it's not cost effective for the Universities - the reason I would rather these places went to UK based students is not because I'm a racist/BNP voting/Daily Mail reading Nazi - it's two-fold, in the sense that a) International students don't integrate well into a research environment, as they usually seek comfort (or safety?) in numbers and b) their concept of acceptable behaviour is not what any normal student from the UK would deem appropriate. Going back to my example of Indian students in my Masters course last year, they would think nothing of arriving 15 minutes late, disrupting the lecture theatre as they all find seats together and loudly talking to one another (often translation)* during the lecture.

*Again, I don't speak Hindi, but was told this was the case at our student/staff rep meetings.

Despite this wild tangent, I don't think that Dundee City Council (as vile as I otherwise find them) are "hijacking Christmas". Initially, that WAS my knee jerk reaction, as I had been told that "they were embracing the multicultural aspect of Dundee", but this turned out to be wrong - the Christmas lights in Dundee still read Merry Christmas, the Churches are still heavily involved in the festivities, and Mass will continue to run every Sunday, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday and Saturday, so there's no need to feel that your Christian rights are being interfered with.

I have many friends who are from racially mixed backgrounds and we're all looking forward to spending time with each other and each other's families during the festive period - I'll celebrate Christmas, they won't, but they will spend the Holidays with their families and friends, just like I will, and wouldn't piss and moan about the country shutting down for a few days, despite their non-Christian backgrounds. I've yet to come across a significant portion of migrants to the UK who dislike services stopping over Christmas. Besides, we need some group of people to man the call-centres/corner shops/buses without complaint (tongue firmly in cheek!)

Interesting post.

If you take the OP/subject as a wider comment on "pandering to minorities", then it raises lots of relevant points.

If domestic students are not being actively discriminated against for entry to Post-Graduate courses, then the fact of large numbers of indian or other foreign students is just that, a fact. The income generated from fees your course is over £600,000. If it didnt come from there it would need to come from somehwere else - seems a win-win to me.

As for behaviour, thats a different matter - the University should have set acceptable levels of behaviour, or horsed the culprits out. Cultural difference in an academic setting should not be a permissible excuse for being disruptive.

There are settings where the local culture is dominant. Ive managed teams of workers from Polish, Asian, Afro-Caribbean as well as white UK backgrounds. In a work environment there is a requirement to conform to what is acceptable and expected. I dont think you can afford to discriminate in any way when it comes to what is required in a structured setting.

By the way, the only factor which related to language or ability to understand in that work setting was could the individual understand the instructions given to be able to do the job safely and properly. If they couldnt, they didnt work.

[Green Mikey]

I think you are living in a dream world if you think there are very few people who cannot speak English in Edinburgh. I've come across a lot, normally older members of family, who have no intention of learning our language. Why? No need to.

If someone is contributing to our society (paying tax etc) I have no problem with what language they speak. Does it really matter that an OAP immigrant can't speak English, I don't think that it has a significant impact on our society.

Apart from the the production of multi-lingual leaflets how does this country pander to minorities?

[Sylar]

Interesting post.

If you take the OP/subject as a wider comment on "pandering to minorities", then it raises lots of relevant points.

If domestic students are not being actively discriminated against for entry to Post-Graduate courses, then the fact of large numbers of indian or other foreign students is just that, a fact. The income generated from fees your course is over £600,000. If it didnt come from there it would need to come from somehwere else - seems a win-win to me.

As for behaviour, thats a different matter - the University should have set acceptable levels of behaviour, or horsed the culprits out. Cultural difference in an academic setting should not be a permissible excuse for being disruptive.

There are settings where the local culture is dominant. Ive managed teams of workers from Polish, Asian, Afro-Caribbean as well as white UK backgrounds. In a work environment there is a requirement to conform to what is acceptable and expected. I dont think you can afford to discriminate in any way when it comes to what is required in a structured setting.

By the way, the only factor which related to language or ability to understand in that work setting was could the individual understand the instructions given to be able to do the job safely and properly. If they couldnt, they didnt work.

I'm not paranoid enough to believe that the University would have actively discriminated against British nationals, but there were 90 available spaces on the course, and I know 4 people who were in my undergraduate course who were declined a place, despite having the same qualification as me at undergraduate level. Granted, I have 2 scientific papers to my name and they didn't, but none of the others I knew who got places were any different to those who weren't accepted. It would be easy to understand why some would look at it and say that the home-based students are being treated unfairly, as they're worth less money.

It stands to reason (in my eyes anyway) that a University would consider the potential benefit of taking an International student ahead of a domestic student, as they profit 3xfold. It's good "business". And yes, it is win-win, as it means that domestic students continue to receive subsidised fees, but the willingness to attract foreign students seems to overlook basic requirements as far as I can see. I don't understand why UK institutions (as none of us do it) follow the American Model and assess their suitability in terms of basic literacy and numeracy skills in the host language.

I guess your final point is key in covering that though, that if international students can't understand the work/assessments etc, they won't gain a qualification or pass.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Christmas Light Switch on in Dundee

What's the big deal what it's called?

It's only one light, FFS.

Or are we talking about the switch?

I'm confused.

I'm also half Polish and I can assure the ignoramuses on here that there is a lot more English printed in Polish cities than you'll find Polish in the UK.

Try finding a menu or Museum information in Polish for example.

Bigos Restaurant and Museum of Polish Food on Leith Walk is surely the best place to start?


If someone is contributing to our society (paying tax etc) I have no problem with what language they speak. Does it really matter that an OAP immigrant can't speak English, I don't think that it has a significant impact on our society.

Apart from the the production of multi-lingual leaflets how does this country pander to minorities?

You are absolutely right, especially it would appear that a vast number of indigenous Britons struggle with the language. Listen to some of the adverts on TV - especially for hay kay (Silvrikin and such like) and tell me what language they are spoking on?

[Betty Boop]

You are absolutely right, especially it would appear that a vast number of indigenous Britons struggle with the language. Listen to some of the adverts on TV - especially for hay kay (Silvrikin and such like) and tell me what language they are spoking on?[/QUOTE]

:faf: Do they even make that these days?

[Phil D. Rolls]

You are absolutely right, especially it would appear that a vast number of indigenous Britons struggle with the language. Listen to some of the adverts on TV - especially for hay kay (Silvrikin and such like) and tell me what language they are spoking on?

:faf: Do they even make that these days?[/QUOTE]

Been a long time since I had to worry about what brand of shampoo I buy. :boo hoo:

[Hibbyradge]

Bigos Restaurant and Museum of Polish Food on Leith Walk is surely the best place to start?




Indeed, but they are Polish.

In Poland's cities, almost every restaurant has an English menu, not just the British ones.

[ArabHibee]

I am tired of this country worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on London , we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Brits.

However, the dust from the attacks has barely settled and the 'politically correct' crowd begin complaining about the possibility that our patriotism is offending others.

I am not against immigration, nor do I hold a grudge against anyone who is seeking a better life by coming to Britain . However, there are a few things that those who have recently come to our country, and apparently some born here, need to understand.

This idea of Scotland being a multicultural centre for community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity. As Scots, we have our own culture, our own society, our own language and our own lifestyle. This culture has been developed over centuries of wars, struggles, trials and victories fought by the untold masses of men and women who laid down their lives and of the millions of men and women who have sought freedom.

We speak ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if they wish to become part of our society, learn the language!

If God offends them, then I suggest they consider another part of the world as their new home, because God is part of our culture.. If St. Andrews flag offends them, then they should seriously consider a move to another part of this planet.

We are happy with our culture and have no desire to change, and we really don't care how they did things where they came from. This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow them every opportunity to enjoy all this.

But once they are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our National Motto, or Our Way of Life, I encourage them to take advantage of one other great British freedom, 'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE'.

We didn't force them to come here. If they don't like it GO HOME!!

They asked to be here.. So they should accept the country that accepted them. Pretty easy really, when you think about it.

[Hibbyradge]

But once they are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our National Motto, or Our Way of Life, I encourage them to take advantage of one other great British freedom, 'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE'.

We didn't force them to come here. If they don't like it GO HOME!!

They asked to be here.. So they should accept the country that accepted them. Pretty easy really, when you think about it.

What a remarkable intolerant rant. Capital letters for "THE RIGHT TO LEAVE" and "GO HOME", eh? Nick would be proud.

As far as I see it, you're the only person whining and griping. I've never heard any immigrant complaining about "Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our National Motto, or Our Way of Life".

Just paranoid right wing racists.

You say not against immigratiion, but you don't seem to want to help immigrants assimilate in any way.

That sounds like lip service to me.

[Betty Boop]

I am tired of this country worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on London , we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Brits.

However, the dust from the attacks has barely settled and the 'politically correct' crowd begin complaining about the possibility that our patriotism is offending others.

I am not against immigration, nor do I hold a grudge against anyone who is seeking a better life by coming to Britain . However, there are a few things that those who have recently come to our country, and apparently some born here, need to understand.

This idea of Scotland being a multicultural centre for community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity. As Scots, we have our own culture, our own society, our own language and our own lifestyle. This culture has been developed over centuries of wars, struggles, trials and victories fought by the untold masses of men and women who laid down their lives and of the millions of men and women who have sought freedom.

We speak ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if they wish to become part of our society, learn the language!

If God offends them, then I suggest they consider another part of the world as their new home, because God is part of our culture.. If St. Andrews flag offends them, then they should seriously consider a move to another part of this planet.

We are happy with our culture and have no desire to change, and we really don't care how they did things where they came from. This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow them every opportunity to enjoy all this.

But once they are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our National Motto, or Our Way of Life, I encourage them to take advantage of one other great British freedom, 'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE'.

We didn't force them to come here. If they don't like it GO HOME!!

They asked to be here.. So they should accept the country that accepted them. Pretty easy really, when you think about it.

WE? I am sorry but you don't speak for ME, I am proud to be part of a multi-cultural society!

[steakbake]

I am tired of this country worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on London , we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Brits.

However, the dust from the attacks has barely settled and the 'politically correct' crowd begin complaining about the possibility that our patriotism is offending others.

I am not against immigration, nor do I hold a grudge against anyone who is seeking a better life by coming to Britain . However, there are a few things that those who have recently come to our country, and apparently some born here, need to understand.

This idea of Scotland being a multicultural centre for community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity. As Scots, we have our own culture, our own society, our own language and our own lifestyle. This culture has been developed over centuries of wars, struggles, trials and victories fought by the untold masses of men and women who laid down their lives and of the millions of men and women who have sought freedom.

We speak ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if they wish to become part of our society, learn the language!

If God offends them, then I suggest they consider another part of the world as their new home, because God is part of our culture.. If St. Andrews flag offends them, then they should seriously consider a move to another part of this planet.

We are happy with our culture and have no desire to change, and we really don't care how they did things where they came from. This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow them every opportunity to enjoy all this.

But once they are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our National Motto, or Our Way of Life, I encourage them to take advantage of one other great British freedom, 'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE'.

We didn't force them to come here. If they don't like it GO HOME!!

They asked to be here.. So they should accept the country that accepted them. Pretty easy really, when you think about it.

Littlejohn (2009)

[LiverpoolHibs]

I am tired of this country worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on London , we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Brits.

However, the dust from the attacks has barely settled and the 'politically correct' crowd begin complaining about the possibility that our patriotism is offending others.

I am not against immigration, nor do I hold a grudge against anyone who is seeking a better life by coming to Britain . However, there are a few things that those who have recently come to our country, and apparently some born here, need to understand.

This idea of Scotland being a multicultural centre for community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity. As Scots, we have our own culture, our own society, our own language and our own lifestyle. This culture has been developed over centuries of wars, struggles, trials and victories fought by the untold masses of men and women who laid down their lives and of the millions of men and women who have sought freedom.

We speak ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if they wish to become part of our society, learn the language!

If God offends them, then I suggest they consider another part of the world as their new home, because God is part of our culture.. If St. Andrews flag offends them, then they should seriously consider a move to another part of this planet.

We are happy with our culture and have no desire to change, and we really don't care how they did things where they came from. This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow them every opportunity to enjoy all this.

But once they are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our National Motto, or Our Way of Life, I encourage them to take advantage of one other great British freedom, 'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE'.

We didn't force them to come here. If they don't like it GO HOME!!

They asked to be here.. So they should accept the country that accepted them. Pretty easy really, when you think about it.

What the **** are you talking about?

N.B. Oh right, this is one of those circular internet things that idiots pass amongst themselves.

http://www.breakthechain.org/exclusives/beamerican.html

[Betty Boop]

What the **** are you talking about?

N.B. Oh right, this is one of those circular internet things that idiots pass amongst themselves.

http://www.breakthechain.org/exclusives/beamerican.html

:rolleyes:

[marinello59]

This idea of Scotland being a multicultural centre for community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity. As Scots, we have our own culture, our own society, our own language and our own lifestyle. This culture has been developed over centuries of wars, struggles, trials and victories fought by the untold masses of men and women who laid down their lives and of the millions of men and women who have sought freedom

That'll include the 195000 Poles who fought under British command in WW2, many of whom subsequently settled here?
How about the Italians who may have fought here but we interned during that same war. How about the Scots Italians who perished on the Arandora Star? Their reaction? They got on with rebuilding their lives after the war as Scots.
How about the Irish who settled over here and despite facing discrimantion made Scotland their home and, (lest we forget), also formed the club that we all support.
I could go on.
Go on, tell me what our culture is again? I really don't think you have a grasp of it at all.

[Twa Cairpets]

What the **** are you talking about?

N.B. Oh right, this is one of those circular internet things that idiots pass amongst themselves.

http://www.breakthechain.org/exclusives/beamerican.html

I'm guessing that ArabHibee is probaby slightly embarrased. Second hand moral outrage, eh? Pathetic.

[Sylar]

I'm guessing that ArabHibee is probaby slightly embarrased. Second hand moral outrage, eh? Pathetic.

Quite.

Disappointing too, as AH is usually good at formulating arguments from their own thoughts.

Downright plagiarised second-hand moral outrage.

[BravestHibs]

Quite.

Disappointing too, as AH is usually good at formulating arguments from their own thoughts.

Downright plagiarised second-hand moral outrage.

That's not moral outrage that's racist hate mail.

I think it just encapsulated everything she stands for alot more eloquently than she could have put it herself. My favourite bit is where she tells the immigrants to GO HOME just like a racist. But of course this is all ironic and the joke's on us.

[LiverpoolHibs]

Quite.

Disappointing too, as AH is usually good at formulating arguments from their own thoughts.

Downright plagiarised second-hand moral outrage.

Hmmmmmmm.

[Darth Hibbie]

If God offends them, then I suggest they consider another part of the world as their new home, because God is part of our culture.

If a British person is offended by God then where do they go? :devil:

Christmas has for the last couple of thousand years been known as Christmas. Even for those who are not religious Christmas stands for giving and receiving presents and spending time with the family. Personally I do not see the point in changing the name to prevent people who would not be offended from being offended. Just crazy.

As an aside I think Christmas should be renamed Santamas :greengrin

[Green Mikey]

I am tired of this country worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on London , we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Brits.

However, the dust from the attacks has barely settled and the 'politically correct' crowd begin complaining about the possibility that our patriotism is offending others.

I am not against immigration, nor do I hold a grudge against anyone who is seeking a better life by coming to Britain . However, there are a few things that those who have recently come to our country, and apparently some born here, need to understand.

This idea of Scotland being a multicultural centre for community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity. As Scots, we have our own culture, our own society, our own language and our own lifestyle. This culture has been developed over centuries of wars, struggles, trials and victories fought by the untold masses of men and women who laid down their lives and of the millions of men and women who have sought freedom.

We speak ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if they wish to become part of our society, learn the language!

If God offends them, then I suggest they consider another part of the world as their new home, because God is part of our culture.. If St. Andrews flag offends them, then they should seriously consider a move to another part of this planet.

We are happy with our culture and have no desire to change, and we really don't care how they did things where they came from. This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow them every opportunity to enjoy all this.

But once they are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our National Motto, or Our Way of Life, I encourage them to take advantage of one other great British freedom, 'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE'.

We didn't force them to come here. If they don't like it GO HOME!!

They asked to be here.. So they should accept the country that accepted them. Pretty easy really, when you think about it.

Nice (second hand) racist rant.

I think that more people Scottish or otherwise would be offended by this intolerante bile than the St Andrew's flag.

[Woody1985]

Seems like we both need a reality check. I would say that there are not many people in Edinburgh who cannot speak a single word of english. But perhaps you look out for them more than I do?

Not sure of other people's experience but personally I know around 6 people who cannot speak any english at all. Their kids/other half can speak english and they communicate via their kids/other half.

[Twa Cairpets]

I am tired of this country worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on London , we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Brits.

However, the dust from the attacks has barely settled and the 'politically correct' crowd begin complaining about the possibility that our patriotism is offending others.

I am not against immigration, nor do I hold a grudge against anyone who is seeking a better life by coming to Britain . However, there are a few things that those who have recently come to our country, and apparently some born here, need to understand.

This idea of Scotland being a multicultural centre for community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity. As Scots, we have our own culture, our own society, our own language and our own lifestyle. This culture has been developed over centuries of wars, struggles, trials and victories fought by the untold masses of men and women who laid down their lives and of the millions of men and women who have sought freedom.

We speak ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if they wish to become part of our society, learn the language!

If God offends them, then I suggest they consider another part of the world as their new home, because God is part of our culture.. If St. Andrews flag offends them, then they should seriously consider a move to another part of this planet.

We are happy with our culture and have no desire to change, and we really don't care how they did things where they came from. This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow them every opportunity to enjoy all this.

But once they are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our National Motto, or Our Way of Life, I encourage them to take advantage of one other great British freedom, 'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE'.

We didn't force them to come here. If they don't like it GO HOME!!

They asked to be here.. So they should accept the country that accepted them. Pretty easy really, when you think about it.

By the way, and just out of curiosity you understand, what exactly are "Our Pledge" and "Our National Motto"?
mmm?

[Woody1985]

I've never come across any. But then, I suppose they would confine themselves to their own family/community and not put themselves in situations where they don't need to speak English. I certainly can't think of anywhere you would go where you would be guaranteed to meet one - unlike the big cities like London.

That's my experience (from my above post).

[BravestHibs]

By the way, and just out of curiosity you understand, what exactly are "Our Pledge" and "Our National Motto"?
mmm?

Something tells me that you may be waiting some time for the answer to that question.

[Green Mikey]

By the way, and just out of curiosity you understand, what exactly are "Our Pledge" and "Our National Motto"?
mmm?

What about '**** off home' as our motto.

What do you think AH?

[Phil D. Rolls]

In response to Miss Littlejohn's heartfelt plea, I have composed a song in reply. I hope nobody thinks it is someone else's work.

Michael McGrory from west Donegal
You came to Glasgow with nothing at all
You fought the landlord then the Afrika korps
When you came to Glasgow with nothing at all

Abraham Caplan from Vilnius you came
You were heading for New York but Leith's where you've stayed
You built a great business which benefits all
Since you came to this land with nothing at all

In Scotland's story I read that they came
The Gael and the Pict, the Angle and Dane
But so did the Irishman, Jew and Ukraine
They're all Scotland's Story and they're all worth the same

Joseph D'Angelo dreams of the days
When Italian kids in the Grassmarket played
We burned out his shop when the boys went to war
But auld Joe's a big man and he forgave all

In Scotland's story I'm told that they came
The Gael and the Pict, the Angle and Dane
But where's all the Chinese and Indian names?
They're in my lands story and they're all worth the same

Christina McKay, I learned of your name
How you travelled south from Delny one day
You raised a whole family in one room they say
And the X on the line stands in place of your name

So in the old story I'll bet that I came
From Gael and Pict and Angle and Dane
And a poor migrant girl who could not write her name
It's a common old story but it's mine just the same

All through the story the immigrants came
The Gael and the Pict, the Angle and Dane
From Pakistan, England and from the Ukraine
We're all Scotland's story and we're all worth the same
Your Scotland's story is worth just the same

EIN REICH, EIN VOLK, EIN PROCLAIMERS!!

[ArabHibee]

:faf:

:fishin:

:stirrer:

[BravestHibs]

:faf:

:fishin:

:stirrer:

Lolololol! Aha! But of course. It was all a big joke. Well I for one have got egg all over my face. Or at least I would have if your little joke didn't correspond exactly with what you actually think.

A friend of mine told me a story about when he went into work on his first day, the guy sat next to him starts telling him about how he caught his wife in bed with his mate the night before and how he was getting a divorce. My mate, having never met the guy before does what anyone else would do and says 'aaaw that's terrible man, better off without her' etc. etc. The guy then turned round and went 'Ahahahahahahah! Can't believe you actually fell for it! Ahahahahahaha!'

Moral of the story is, the guy who told the joke with the intention of making my friend look silly succeeded only in making himself look like a complete c*ck.

[Darth Hibbie]

Lolololol! Aha! But of course. It was all a big joke. Well I for one have got egg all over my face. Or at least I would have if your little joke didn't correspond exactly with what you actually think.

A friend of mine told me a story about when he went into work on his first day, the guy sat next to him starts telling him about how he caught his wife in bed with his mate the night before and how he was getting a divorce. My mate, having never met the guy before does what anyone else would do and says 'aaaw that's terrible man, better off without her' etc. etc. The guy then turned round and went 'Ahahahahahahah! Can't believe you actually fell for it! Ahahahahahaha!'

Moral of the story is, the guy who told the joke with the intention of making my friend look silly succeeded only in making himself look like a complete c*ck.

:wtf:

[BravestHibs]

:wtf:

It's really not that difficult to understand. I even explained the story at the end of my post. What is it you're struggling with petal?

[Dashing Bob S]

I am tired of this country worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on London , we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Brits.

However, the dust from the attacks has barely settled and the 'politically correct' crowd begin complaining about the possibility that our patriotism is offending others.

I am not against immigration, nor do I hold a grudge against anyone who is seeking a better life by coming to Britain . However, there are a few things that those who have recently come to our country, and apparently some born here, need to understand.

This idea of Scotland being a multicultural centre for community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity. As Scots, we have our own culture, our own society, our own language and our own lifestyle. This culture has been developed over centuries of wars, struggles, trials and victories fought by the untold masses of men and women who laid down their lives and of the millions of men and women who have sought freedom.

We speak ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if they wish to become part of our society, learn the language!

If God offends them, then I suggest they consider another part of the world as their new home, because God is part of our culture.. If St. Andrews flag offends them, then they should seriously consider a move to another part of this planet.

We are happy with our culture and have no desire to change, and we really don't care how they did things where they came from. This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow them every opportunity to enjoy all this.

But once they are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our National Motto, or Our Way of Life, I encourage them to take advantage of one other great British freedom, 'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE'.

We didn't force them to come here. If they don't like it GO HOME!!

They asked to be here.. So they should accept the country that accepted them. Pretty easy really, when you think about it.

They're only after our Christmas tree lights. I say let em have it. And i'd pull the switch myself.

[Darth Hibbie]

It's really not that difficult to understand. I even explained the story at the end of my post. What is it you're struggling with petal?

:rolleyes: I understand it easy enough its just pointless.

[BravestHibs]

:rolleyes: I understand it easy enough its just pointless.

As opposed to AH's post which was what in your opinion? Funny?

[Darth Hibbie]

As opposed to AH's post which was what in your opinion? Funny?

Agree or disagree with it at least she was trying to make a point. For the record I neither agree with it nor find it funny.

[BravestHibs]

Agree or disagree with it at least she was trying to make a point. For the record I neither agree with it nor find it funny.

And I wasn't? I thought you understood my post. It appears that rather than understanding it, you didn't understand it. Is that fair would you say?

[Darth Hibbie]

And I wasn't? I thought you understood my post. It appears that rather than understanding it, you didn't understand it. Is that fair would you say?

IMO no you had no point other than have a cheap dig. I will leave you to your superior opinion on everything.

[Twa Cairpets]

:faf:

:fishin:

:stirrer:

Oh well thats me looking silly then.

Or not, of course.

[marinello59]

:faf:

:fishin:

:stirrer:

:tumble:

[Phil D. Rolls]

Agree or disagree with it at least she was trying to make a point. For the record I neither agree with it nor find it funny.

To be fair, I don't think she was trying to make a point. I think she was wanting a reaction. I suspect she may have been reading about Dadaism lately.

[McSwanky]

It's really not that difficult to understand. I even explained the story at the end of my post. What is it you're struggling with petal?

I would have put a comma in between 'with' and 'petal' there if I were you.

:duck: :greengrin

[BravestHibs]

IMO no you had no point other than have a cheap dig. I will leave you to your superior opinion on everything.

I find it flattering that you think I'm superior to you.

---------- Post added at 03:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:00 PM ----------


I would have put a comma in between 'with' and 'petal' there if I were you.

:duck: :greengrin

It would have been unnecessary though.

*fully reclining hands behind head emoticon*

[Phil D. Rolls]

Sirs,

I think there has been more written on here about Dundee's lights than in the Courier and the Evening Telegraph put together. Why should we care about Dundee, when the residents of that fair city never have?

Disgusted, Ardler

[Green Mikey]

What a joke:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/scotland/article6915007.ece

:bitchy:


Hence why I bide in Perthshire! :wink:


Thinks its just a sad state of affairs when they start doing stuff like this.


And what of it if they are offended by it? Why does this country pander so much to minorities? :confused:


Aye, sure we don't pander - cooncil leaflets in every language going - for starters. Go to Poland and see how that works over there.


I am tired of this country worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on London , we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Brits.

However, the dust from the attacks has barely settled and the 'politically correct' crowd begin complaining about the possibility that our patriotism is offending others.

I am not against immigration, nor do I hold a grudge against anyone who is seeking a better life by coming to Britain . However, there are a few things that those who have recently come to our country, and apparently some born here, need to understand.

This idea of Scotland being a multicultural centre for community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity. As Scots, we have our own culture, our own society, our own language and our own lifestyle. This culture has been developed over centuries of wars, struggles, trials and victories fought by the untold masses of men and women who laid down their lives and of the millions of men and women who have sought freedom.

We speak ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if they wish to become part of our society, learn the language!

If God offends them, then I suggest they consider another part of the world as their new home, because God is part of our culture.. If St. Andrews flag offends them, then they should seriously consider a move to another part of this planet.

We are happy with our culture and have no desire to change, and we really don't care how they did things where they came from. This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow them every opportunity to enjoy all this.

But once they are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our National Motto, or Our Way of Life, I encourage them to take advantage of one other great British freedom, 'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE'.

We didn't force them to come here. If they don't like it GO HOME!!

They asked to be here.. So they should accept the country that accepted them. Pretty easy really, when you think about it.


:faf:

:fishin:

:stirrer:


A lot of posts and effort for a poor joke...or did you backtrack on your ignorant xenophobic stance once you realised nobody was agreeing?

[Hibbyradge]

They're only after our Christmas tree lights. I say let em have it. And i'd pull the switch myself.

Light.

[ArabHibee]

Seeing as Marinello re-considered my last post for me, I'll take this one down a different slant.

Re: the argument about speaking the language of the country you are living in. Perfect example today. Behind the Goals where drink and food are served. The catering company have a number of foreign workers working for them, the majority of them front of house today. At the bar, 3 people waiting in front of me, had to wait about 10 minutes to get served as one of the girls kept getting the orders wrong then couldn't work the till. When I gave her my order, she got that wrong as well and had to rectify. I bought a pint of fresh orange and lemonade, a fresh orange and a water with ice. She rang it up on the till and asked me for the grand total of £1!! Nae problem, I thought, ain't my concern if they can't employ people to do the job correctly.

Next was the food queue. No queue, but asking for 2 pie and chips resulted in the 2 pies being put on one plate then she started to put chips on 2 plates before I stopped her. The one on the till couldn't count either.
Although I know this is a catering company who rent the space from Hibs, it doesn't show Hibs up in a great light as their customer service is crap.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Seeing as Marinello re-considered my last post for me, I'll take this one down a different slant.

Re: the argument about speaking the language of the country you are living in. Perfect example today. Behind the Goals where drink and food are served. The catering company have a number of foreign workers working for them, the majority of them front of house today. At the bar, 3 people waiting in front of me, had to wait about 10 minutes to get served as one of the girls kept getting the orders wrong then couldn't work the till. When I gave her my order, she got that wrong as well and had to rectify. I bought a pint of fresh orange and lemonade, a fresh orange and a water with ice. She rang it up on the till and asked me for the grand total of £1!! Nae problem, I thought, ain't my concern if they can't employ people to do the job correctly.

Next was the food queue. No queue, but asking for 2 pie and chips resulted in the 2 pies being put on one plate then she started to put chips on 2 plates before I stopped her. The one on the till couldn't count either.
Although I know this is a catering company who rent the space from Hibs, it doesn't show Hibs up in a great light as their customer service is crap.

You make a fair point, but could it not be poor staff training that was to blame? I say that because I have had similair calamaties at refreshment stands in the ground, only that time it was bairns from Leith who didn't have a clue.

I agree that people who serve the public should be able to speak English though.

[ArabHibee]

You make a fair point, but could it not be poor staff training that was to blame? I say that because I have had similair calamaties at refreshment stands in the ground, only that time it was bairns from Leith who didn't have a clue.

I agree that people who serve the public should be able to speak English though.

FR,

I'd like to say it was poor staff training but when the guy behind me had said "steak bake" about 5 times to the lassie and she still didn't understand him, he ended up having to point to the food that he wanted. They would have been better with a self-serve facility and a pot at the end for you to put your money in. It would have made things quicker and they would have probably have got the correct amount of money for what was sold.

[LiverpoolHibs]

Hold on, is it social cohesion, linguistic purity or the ability to correctly serve steak bakes that we're striving for?

[Betty Boop]

Hold on, is it social cohesion, linguistic purity or the ability to correctly serve steak bakes that we're striving for?

:faf:

[ArabHibee]

Hold on, is it social cohesion, linguistic purity or the ability to correctly serve steak bakes that we're striving for?

I would say it was a parity of all three.

You guys are sure up late the night. Didn't think I'd get any comments until Monday lunchtime. :greengrin

[Twa Cairpets]

Seeing as Marinello re-considered my last post for me, I'll take this one down a different slant.

Re: the argument about speaking the language of the country you are living in. Perfect example today. Behind the Goals where drink and food are served. The catering company have a number of foreign workers working for them, the majority of them front of house today. At the bar, 3 people waiting in front of me, had to wait about 10 minutes to get served as one of the girls kept getting the orders wrong then couldn't work the till. When I gave her my order, she got that wrong as well and had to rectify. I bought a pint of fresh orange and lemonade, a fresh orange and a water with ice. She rang it up on the till and asked me for the grand total of £1!! Nae problem, I thought, ain't my concern if they can't employ people to do the job correctly.

Next was the food queue. No queue, but asking for 2 pie and chips resulted in the 2 pies being put on one plate then she started to put chips on 2 plates before I stopped her. The one on the till couldn't count either.
Although I know this is a catering company who rent the space from Hibs, it doesn't show Hibs up in a great light as their customer service is crap.

Apart from the sneeringly unpleasant undertones of your post - "johnny bloody foreigner, coming here etc etc" - there are couple of very obvious points you are missing here.

1) If you have an issue, the people you should be venting your spleen at are the employers, not the employees. Or do you have an issue with people seeking employment in order to earn money/pay taxes/support themselves?

2) As Filled Rolls pointed out, there is a fair proportion of innumerate, ****less and blankly bovine employees in the catering facilities all around Easter Road, who (apparently) speak some kind of English too. Although in fairness there are some very pleasant, polite and efficient kids too.

Finally, re-reading your post, the phrase "The one on the till couldn't count either." is particularly illuminating. The One? This suggests (as indeed do all your posts on this thread) that you view all foriegners as one homogenous lump of untermensch who are not up to our standards of intellectual perfection. I'm sure Nick Griffin is looking for some female candidates next time around when if you want to give him a call.

[Phil D. Rolls]

FR,

I'd like to say it was poor staff training but when the guy behind me had said "steak bake" about 5 times to the lassie and she still didn't understand him, he ended up having to point to the food that he wanted. They would have been better with a self-serve facility and a pot at the end for you to put your money in. It would have made things quicker and they would have probably have got the correct amount of money for what was sold.

Sounds like she shouldn't have been let anywhere near the public.

[ArabHibee]

Apart from the sneeringly unpleasant undertones of your post - "johnny bloody foreigner, coming here etc etc" - there are couple of very obvious points you are missing here.

1) If you have an issue, the people you should be venting your spleen at are the employers, not the employees. Or do you have an issue with people seeking employment in order to earn money/pay taxes/support themselves?

The issue here, for me anyway, is that I personally feel that if the shoe was on the other foot, ie a Scottish person going to work in a foreign country (not Spain before you start) you would be expected to have a grasp of the language and I personally feel that you would be hard pressed to find a job if you did not.

2) As Filled Rolls pointed out, there is a fair proportion of innumerate, ****less and blankly bovine employees in the catering facilities all around Easter Road, who (apparently) speak some kind of English too. Although in fairness there are some very pleasant, polite and efficient kids too.

Fair point about some of the numpties that work at Easter Road, just because they are pleasant and polite doesn't make it a pleasure to be served by them. Is it asking too much to ask for good service? Or do I just have to put up with it because it's the PC thing to do?

Finally, re-reading your post, the phrase "The one on the till couldn't count either." is particularly illuminating. The One? This suggests (as indeed do all your posts on this thread) that you view all foriegners as one homogenous lump of untermensch who are not up to our standards of intellectual perfection. I'm sure Nick Griffin is looking for some female candidates next time around when if you want to give him a call.
The "one" on the till wasn't actually foreign, she was just as much a numpty as the rest of them. You just chose to read it that way.


So as usual you will come back and berate me for my opinions. Call me racist if you want but at least I stand by my opinions, whether you agree with them or not, and I don't follow on like the majority of sheep on this forum, full of do-gooders and the PC brigade.

[Phil D. Rolls]

So as usual you will come back and berate me for my opinions. Call me racist if you want but at least I stand by my opinions, whether you agree with them or not, and I don't follow on like the majority of sheep on this forum, full of do-gooders and the PC brigade.

Is this another of your wind-ups?

[LiverpoolHibs]

So as usual you will come back and berate me for my opinions. Call me racist if you want but at least I stand by my opinions, whether you agree with them or not, and I don't follow on like the majority of sheep on this forum, full of do-gooders and the PC brigade.

Ha! What a brilliant sentiment. Do you think that deserves congratulation?

---------- Post added at 11:35 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:34 AM ----------


Is this another of your wind-ups?

She's always got that to fall back on if things look like they're going badly...

[Betty Boop]

So as usual you will come back and berate me for my opinions. Call me racist if you want but at least I stand by my opinions, whether you agree with them or not, and I don't follow on like the majority of sheep on this forum, full of do-gooders and the PC brigade.

:grr:

[ArabHibee]

Is this another of your wind-ups?

Nope


Ha! What a brilliant sentiment. Do you think that deserves congratulation?

No, but it deserves congratulations for standing up to you and your little clique who jump on anyone that doesn't share the same views as you lot.

---------- Post added at 11:35 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:34 AM ----------



She's always got that to fall back on if things look like they're going badly...
:yawn:

[LiverpoolHibs]

Nope


:yawn:

Keep fighting the good fight...

[Phil D. Rolls]

Nope


:yawn:

I respect your right to your opinions then, but I don't agree with them.

I also don't think you do yourself any favours spitting the dummy when you come up against people who make points you don't agree with. You make out that there is something wrong with them for not seeing it your way.

I get the sense you feel persecuted. I think people have been going out of their way to be fair to you, but you don't play fair in return. You didn't stand by your convictions when challenged about the Littlejohn rant, you said it was a wind-up.

It makes it very difficult to take you seriously.

[Hibbyradge]

So as usual you will come back and berate me for my opinions.Call me racist if you want but at least I stand by my opinions, whether you agree with them or not, and I don't follow on like the majority of sheep on this forum, full of do-gooders and the PC brigade .

I think the Sharia Law that allows men to starve their wives if they refuse to have sex is quite right. Women do not need education and a man should always be asked for permission before a woman leaves the house. Furthermoere, marital rape is an oxymoron.

Call me sexist, cruel and inhumane if you want but at least I stand by my opinions, whether you agree with them or not, and I don't follow on like the majority of sheep on this forum, full of do-gooders and the PC brigade.

What is the PC Brigade anyway?

[Twa Cairpets]

So as usual you will come back and berate me for my opinions. Call me racist if you want but at least I stand by my opinions, whether you agree with them or not, and I don't follow on like the majority of sheep on this forum, full of do-gooders and the PC brigade.

Nothing to do with this mythical concept of being PC, being a do-gooder or a sheep. If you do get berated, it is because your views are ill thought out, obnoxious and small-minded.

I dont know if you are racist, or just ignorant, but its certainly one of the two, probably both. If you would like me to conform to the stereotype you obviously assume I fit into, how about describing you as "anti linguistically disadvantaged" and/or "nescient of racio-economic verities"

[Sir David Gray]

Where do you get your information? Are you implying that countrywide, councils are trying to keep christmas a secret, via a manifestation of a crazed atheist agenda, by draping every town in the UK with a garish light display?


I didn't say anything about it being "countrywide", but I do stand by my statement that there are councils in Britain who refuse to be too open in their celebration of Christmas, because they do not want to offend minority groups. It was only a few days ago that I noticed a lit sign that has been put up in my home town centre, saying "Season's Greetings". No mention whatsoever of Christmas.


I'll give you christians one thing, you guys are not hypocritical when it comes to your overt homophobia.

Although many people will probably see me as homophobic, what exactly did I say there that could be construed as homophobic? I was stating something that actually happened. A publicly funded initiative was set up in Glasgow, inviting homosexual, bisexual and transsexual people to deface a copy of the Bible by writing messages inside it which, in my view, were vulgar.


Right I see, so lunatic right wing christians like you, Donald Rumsfeld and George W Bush are TOLERANT not vindictive, little close minded bigots. I'm glad we got to the bottom of that because here was me labouring under the misapprehension that you were the latter, when actually, you are the former.

Any chance that you could maybe address the points of my post that you have quoted, instead of making this kind of rant because I have no idea what you are on about here. Unless, God forbid, you actually agree with me that there is absolutely no chance that the Qur'an would have been abused in such a manner.


And we'd hate to see those 'coloureds' getting a foothold in our society now wouldn't we?
Just out of interest, even if there was as much hoo haa about ramadan as there was about christmas, why would that bother you so much, doesn't islam have as much right to worship as any other faith, or would you also like to see the dismantling of those loony liberal mandates called 'Human Rights'? Or maybe just for Muslims?

For a start, I have never used a term, like the one in bold, in my life.

And yes, Muslims have as much right to worship their faith and celebrate their festivals as anyone else. This is not about Muslims rights being decreased, it's about Christian festivals being embraced openly and publicly, which I do not believe is the case at the moment.


Utter nonsense, both in your interpretation of the newspaper article and your wild belief that islam is embraced.

I agree that amongst the general British public, Islam is far from embraced. However I do believe that Islam is viewed in a favourable light by the people in charge.


Have you any idea how moronically stupid that sentence is? Could you show me where you get your evidence (not anecdotes) that this army of cooncilmen atheists are plotting to avoid offending religions other than Christianity?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/hampshire/4504562.stm
http://www.metro.co.uk/news/442024-choir-banned-for-being-too-religious

Will those two examples do for now?



Link (http://artthreat.net/2009/07/deface-bible-art-exhibi/).
Presumably the wrong type of christian in your eyes?

This Metropolitan Community Church openly embraces homosexuality, in fact most of their members are from the LGBT community. It's therefore hardly surprising that they were behind such an initiative.

However I would tend to call into question a group that call themselves Christians and yet apparently find it perfectly acceptable for their Holy book to be defaced, regardless of the nature of the messages.

I don't believe that any real Christian would think it's OK to vandalise the Bible.



Erm, no, it wasnt. You are mixing up so many moral outrages here it beggars belief.

Tolerance of, and embracing, homosexuality is part of living in a diverse society. Therefore, I would say that this kind of stunt was done in the name of diversity.

What would you call it?


Here's a scenario for you. Someone is offered a job - lets say a surgeon. He is from Bangladesh. His English is excellent. He needs English and has learned it from a very early age. He brings with him his wife and kids. The wife, having not needed to so far, does not have a good command of English at all. His kids have learned some at school. They speak Bengali at home.

Will you stop the surgeon from starting his job until all his family can speak English? Are the kids to be excluded from education until they can speak English? Is his wife not to join him in the UK until she can prove she speaks and understands English to a required level?

It's a very real example. There are very few people living in Edinburgh who cannot speak some level of English. Their reading skills might not be the same - try learning a language to speak and then learn to write or read it. Then try learning it if the alphabet or writing system is totally different.

So these leaflets - perhaps there are people who can communicate in English, or get by in it. But if they need particular information, is it best to present this in a format they will immediately understand, or do you insist that they must speak, read and write perfect English?

Presumably you're willing to wait for any council tax to be paid until they can understand the english version leaflet explaining how it works?

In this hypothetical example, provided that they meet all the criteria, the whole family should be allowed into the UK and the wife should be made to attend regular English lessons. Obviously the family is coming to the UK primarily because of the husband's skills as a surgeon. Therefore, the fact that he can speak English should take precedence over the fact that his wife cannot.

Where there's just one person coming over, that person should be able to speak English to be eligible for entry into this country.


I agree with you apart from the bit in bold. Think its up to the individual to learn not the country to teach them.

Maybe I didn't explain myself clearly enough. I was meaning more that it's up to those countries to bring in a law that says all immigrants must learn how to speak the language of that country, if they can't already do so.


And then you could get all up-in-arms about having to pay for English lessons.

I would rather contribute towards paying for English lessons for immigrants, than pay for leaflets to get printed in dozens of different languages. The English lessons will help to integrate foreigners into the local community, whereas leaflets printed in Urdu, Polish and Chinese do nothing of the sort and it just alienates them from their community.


No, its a fair comparison with different specifics. Its about giving people in a society equal access to information. Around 800,000 adults in scotland have very low levels os literacy and numeracy (http://www.literacytrust.org.uk/database/stats/adultstats.html#Scotland). Whilst some, perhaps many, of these people will undoubtedly have learning issues, I'm presuming some had the choice to be able to learn to read and write both as children and adults. If we are a mature and civilised society, we should look after all these people - communication and information is critical to living succesfuly in a developed nation, and access to it is the responsibility of the nation.

Exactly, I totally agree. Communication is critical to living successfully. Therefore, a country such as Britain should have one language (English). If you start having people speaking hundreds of different languages, then how can people be expected to communicate effectively?

[Twa Cairpets]

I didn't say anything about it being "countrywide", but I do stand by my statement that there are councils in Britain who refuse to be too open in their celebration of Christmas, because they do not want to offend minority groups. It was only a few days ago that I noticed a lit sign that has been put up in my home town centre, saying "Season's Greetings". No mention whatsoever of Christmas.

I think even you would accept that "seasons greetings" is a fairly innocuous term, and is in universal use around Christmas.




Although many people will probably see me as homophobic, what exactly did I say there that could be construed as homophobic? I was stating something that actually happened. A publicly funded initiative was set up in Glasgow, inviting homosexual, bisexual and transsexual people to deface a copy of the Bible by writing messages inside it which, in my view, were vulgar.


This Metropolitan Community Church openly embraces homosexuality, in fact most of their members are from the LGBT community. It's therefore hardly surprising that they were behind such an initiative.

However I would tend to call into question a group that call themselves Christians and yet apparently find it perfectly acceptable for their Holy book to be defaced, regardless of the nature of the messages.

I don't believe that any real Christian would think it's OK to vandalise the Bible.


Tolerance of, and embracing, homosexuality is part of living in a diverse society. Therefore, I would say that this kind of stunt was done in the name of diversity.

What would you call it?

Ah, the "wrong type" of Christian. How silly of me. The fact that they have been disenfranchised by the mainstream doesnt worry you at all? For what its worth, I think it was something of a self-indulgent bit of art, but offensive? Not in the slightest.



Any chance that you could maybe address the points of my post that you have quoted, instead of making this kind of rant because I have no idea what you are on about here. Unless, God forbid, you actually agree with me that there is absolutely no chance that the Qur'an would have been abused in such a manner.

And yes, Muslims have as much right to worship their faith and celebrate their festivals as anyone else. This is not about Muslims rights being decreased, it's about Christian festivals being embraced openly and publicly, which I do not believe is the case at the moment.

I think the Qu'ran probably wouldnt have been defaced in the same manner because it is even more of a restricitve and controlling religion than Christianity, but for me, I dont mind which bit of mythological pap gets defaced by those affected by internal schisms.

If it was being defaced by the BNP for inciting racial tension, then yes, I would condemn it, in exactly the same way I would condemn muslims defacing the bible for the same reason.

On your final point I do not think there is a single real example you can find of a Christian being denied the opportunity to celebrate their faith within their religion.


I agree that amongst the general British public, Islam is far from embraced. However I do believe that Islam is viewed in a favourable light by the people in charge.

Mibbes aye, mibbes naw, but it doesnt affect what you want to believe




http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/hampshire/4504562.stm
http://www.metro.co.uk/news/442024-choir-banned-for-being-too-religious

Will those two examples do for now?

:faf: Did you actually read your own links. The first one expressly states that they did include Christmas, and the second seems to be about a privately organised village arts festival.

Seriosuly pathetic.



In this hypothetical example, provided that they meet all the criteria, the whole family should be allowed into the UK and the wife should be made to attend regular English lessons. Obviously the family is coming to the UK primarily because of the husband's skills as a surgeon. Therefore, the fact that he can speak English should take precedence over the fact that his wife cannot.

Where there's just one person coming over, that person should be able to speak English to be eligible for entry into this country.

a tad totalitarian dont you think?




Maybe I didn't explain myself clearly enough. I was meaning more that it's up to those countries to bring in a law that says all immigrants must learn how to speak the language of that country, if they can't already do so.

I would rather contribute towards paying for English lessons for immigrants, than pay for leaflets to get printed in dozens of different languages. The English lessons will help to integrate foreigners into the local community, whereas leaflets printed in Urdu, Polish and Chinese do nothing of the sort and it just alienates them from their community.

If you are an economic migrant, do you not think that there would be a massive advantage in being able to speak English if you are coming to work. Underpinning all this part of a debate is an assumption that therer are hordes of monolingual foreigners running around. I suspect this is mostly bollox.


Exactly, I totally agree. Communication is critical to living successfully. Therefore, a country such as Britain should have one language (English). If you start having people speaking hundreds of different languages, then how can people be expected to communicate effectively?

No-one is saying that the nation should become multilingual, but the basic fact of th ematter is that there are countless languaged spoken, and being an evolved society involves understanding this, not becoming a third world nation with an oppresive view of anything external.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Has anyone considered the option of restricting people who don't speak English to seperate areas of the city. That way it is safer for them and they won't have to worry about being picked on by other cultures. It worked for Botha. :yawn:

[Dashing Bob S]

Has anyone considered the option of restricting people who don't speak English to seperate areas of the city. That way it is safer for them and they won't have to worry about being picked on by other cultures. It worked for Botha. :yawn:

But it doesn't work, FR. We've tried it for years in the Gorgie-Dalry area of our own city, and experience suggests is that all it does is breed a mutant underclass with delusions of grandeur, who drag children into public toilets and walk around twirling scarves in the air.

[Sylar]

Won't anyone think of the children?!? :grr:

[Betty Boop]

I could be worse, some Austrians want to ban Santa! :greengrin

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/topics/christmas/6685688/Austria-moves-to-ban-Father-Christmas.html

[BravestHibs]

So as usual you will come back and berate me for my opinions. Call me racist if you want but at least I stand by my opinions, whether you agree with them or not, and I don't follow on like the majority of sheep on this forum, full of do-gooders and the PC brigade.

"At least I stand by my own simplistic racism."

Well for that at least, you should be commended.

"Although I know this is a catering company who rent the space from Hibs, it doesn't show Hibs up in a great light as their customer service is crap."

You stand by it so much that you try and turn your hatred of the poles into bad customer service issue. Way to stand up for your opinions.

WE ARRA SHEEPLE!!!

[Phil D. Rolls]

"At least I stand by my own simplistic racism."

Well for that at least, you should be commended.

"Although I know this is a catering company who rent the space from Hibs, it doesn't show Hibs up in a great light as their customer service is crap."

You stand by it so much that you try and turn your hatred of the poles into bad customer service issue. Way to stand up for your opinions.

WE ARRA SHEEPLE!!!

Baaaaa humbug. :blowing

[Phil D. Rolls]

But it doesn't work, FR. We've tried it for years in the Gorgie-Dalry area of our own city, and experience suggests is that all it does is breed a mutant underclass with delusions of grandeur, who drag children into public toilets and walk around twirling scarves in the air.

At least we know where they are though.

[BravestHibs]

So as usual you will come back and berate me for my opinions. Call me racist if you want but at least I stand by my opinions, whether you agree with them or not, and I don't follow on like the majority of sheep on this forum, full of do-gooders and the PC brigade.

I'm a MAC.

[ArabHibee]

"At least I stand by my own simplistic racism."

Well for that at least, you should be commended.

"Although I know this is a catering company who rent the space from Hibs, it doesn't show Hibs up in a great light as their customer service is crap."

You stand by it so much that you try and turn your hatred of the poles into bad customer service issue. Way to stand up for your opinions.

WE ARRA SHEEPLE!!!

:hmmm: Don't remember posting that any of the johnny foreigners in BTG were Poles. That you make assumptions again?

[Twa Cairpets]

:hmmm: Don't remember posting that any of the johnny foreigners in BTG were Poles. That you make assumptions again?

I'm guessing they were Eastern European though, eh? Typical defence of the morally bankrupt argument - try to pick up small issues to discredit the fundamental correctness of the point being made.

[BravestHibs]

:hmmm: Don't remember posting that any of the johnny foreigners in BTG were Poles. That you make assumptions again?

This thread has been like watching AH undergoing major surjery with no anasthetic. Not enjoyable exactly, but strangely compelling.

[ArabHibee]

I'm guessing they were Eastern European though, eh? Typical defence of the morally bankrupt argument - try to pick up small issues to discredit the fundamental correctness of the point being made.

Question was actually directed at BravestHibs, which he chose to ignore. More so for the fact that he picks up on every little error that people (who he doesn't agree with) make, whether it be spelling, grammar, punctuation or the like.

I personally don't know if they were Eastern European, I don't think if I had asked them that they would have been able to answer, seeing as they didn't speak English.


This thread has been like watching AH undergoing major surjery with no anasthetic. Not enjoyable exactly, but strangely compelling.

Whatever floats yer boat. I don't mind being called small-minded, racist or whatever other fancy words you want to use. I don't agree with people coming to this country to work unless they are bringing something worthwhile with them and that they can speak English.

[Sylar]

Whatever floats yer boat. I don't mind being called small-minded, racist or whatever other fancy words you want to use. I don't agree with people coming to this country to work unless they are bringing something worthwhile with them and that they can speak English.

Define "worthwhile" though? There are a lot of s***e jobs out there which many foreign migrants are willing to take (and for poor pay too) that many "British Nationals" would scoff at, rather taking the doll option than "debase themselves" to manual labour, be it cleaning, agricultural or public service.

We should look to put our own house in order before we lambast those who have upped sticks and are willing to move to pastures anew and make a go at a new life.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Question was actually directed at BravestHibs, which he chose to ignore. More so for the fact that he picks up on every little error that people (who he doesn't agree with) make, whether it be spelling, grammar, punctuation or the like.

I personally don't know if they were Eastern European, I don't think if I had asked them that they would have been able to answer, seeing as they didn't speak English.



Whatever floats yer boat. I don't mind being called small-minded, racist or whatever other fancy words you want to use. I don't agree with people coming to this country to work unless they are bringing something worthwhile with them and that they can speak English.

You go girl. :faf:

[BravestHibs]

Question was actually directed at BravestHibs, which he chose to ignore. More so for the fact that he picks up on every little error that people (who he doesn't agree with) make, whether it be spelling, grammar, punctuation or the like.

I personally don't know if they were Eastern European, I don't think if I had asked them that they would have been able to answer, seeing as they didn't speak English.



Whatever floats yer boat. I don't mind being called small-minded, racist or whatever other fancy words you want to use. I don't agree with people coming to this country to work unless they are bringing something worthwhile with them and that they can speak English.

You think 'racist' is a fancy word? I truly do feel sorry for you.

I didn't answer your question because it was peurile. But if you must know I've been to behind the goals and have been served by the same 'jonny foreigners' as you have that's how I know that they are polish.

[ArabHibee]

Define "worthwhile" though? There are a lot of s***e jobs out there which many foreign migrants are willing to take (and for poor pay too) that many "British Nationals" would scoff at, rather taking the doll option than "debase themselves" to manual labour, be it cleaning, agricultural or public service.

We should look to put our own house in order before we lambast those who have upped sticks and are willing to move to pastures anew and make a go at a new life.

Fair comment and my idea of worthwhile will definitely not be the same as a lot of other people's.

Who did these manual jobs before all the foreign migrants?

[Phil D. Rolls]

Fair comment and my idea of worthwhile will definitely not be the same as a lot of other people's.

Who did these manual jobs before all the foreign migrants?

Your ancestors, who were almost certainly foreign immigrants at one time as well.

[ArabHibee]

Your ancestors, who were almost certainly foreign immigrants at one time as well.

FR - can you stop being arsey for just one minute. I'm talking about in the last 20 to 30 years, as you well know.

[ArabHibee]

You think 'racist' is a fancy word? I truly do feel sorry for you.

I didn't answer your question because it was peurile. But if you must know I've been to behind the goals and have been served by the same 'jonny foreigners' as you have that's how I know that they are polish.

No I don't think racist is a fancy word. I'm talking about you, you can't just use normal words, you have to use fancy big "look at me words" to get your point across.

And how do you know they are polish? Did you try to chat them up and they told you to "Spierdalaj"?

[Phil D. Rolls]

FR - can you stop being arsey for just one minute. I'm talking about in the last 20 to 30 years, as you well know.

Yeah right. :greengrin

That would have been the Pakistanis, Bangladeshis and the Indians. Maybe even the Irish. IIRC a lot of British people were taking advantage of their new found EU status and were in Germany and Holland doing work over there.

[ArabHibee]

Yeah right. :greengrin

That would have been the Pakistanis, Bangladeshis and the Indians. Maybe even the Irish. IIRC a lot of British people were taking advantage of their new found EU status and were in Germany and Holland doing work over there.


Hmmm, don't remember many of them picking berries and tatties to be honest with you.

And were the British people going to Germany and The Netherlands doing menial work over there? And what I mean by that is cleaning, agricultural, service industry? I personally don't think so.

[BravestHibs]

No I don't think racist is a fancy word. I'm talking about you, you can't just use normal words, you have to use fancy big "look at me words" to get your point across.

And how do you know they are polish? Did you try to chat them up and they told you to "Spierdalaj"?

'Big look at me words'. Your grasp of the English language is quite staggering. To address your initial point as to why I can't 'just use normal words' it's because if I used phrases such as 'look at me words' people would, rightly, think that I was an idiot. I have a theory as to why our opinions differ on this matter. Would you like to hear it?

FWIW I'm spoken for so I didn't try and chat them up, but I have spent enough time in Poland to recognise the language when I hear it spoken.

[ArabHibee]

'Big look at me words'. Your grasp of the English language is quite staggering. To address your initial point as to why I can't 'just use normal words' it's because if I used phrases such as 'look at me words' people would, rightly, think that I was an idiot. I have a theory as to why our opinions differ on this matter. Would you like to hear it?

FWIW I'm spoken for so I didn't try and chat them up, but I have spent enough time in Poland to recognise the language when I hear it spoken.

Mon then. Don't use "big look at me words" though or I'll not understand your point.

[Dashing Bob S]

Hmmm, don't remember many of them picking berries and tatties to be honest with you.

And were the British people going to Germany and The Netherlands doing menial work over there? And what I mean by that is cleaning, agricultural, service industry? I personally don't think so.

I don't think i've seen a white, indigenous British toilet cleaner for about twenty years.

Like it or not, we're full of fat, lazy, spoiled indolent types who don't really want to work, yet see think nothing of coming out with virulent racism against those who do, usually while blowing cigarette smoke or swirling back cheap lager.

[BravestHibs]

Mon then. Don't use "big look at me words" though or I'll not understand your point.

OK here it is.

I think that growing up, you have been surrounded by people, who like you, think that a word with more than two syllables is a 'fancy word' and if you were to try and use these 'fancy words' you would be shot down by your toothless Dundonian mates. Instead of having a bit of back bone and developing your vocabulary regardless you felt that to fit in you'd be better off adopting this attitude as well.

[Green Mikey]

Hmmm, don't remember many of them picking berries and tatties to be honest with you.

And were the British people going to Germany and The Netherlands doing menial work over there? And what I mean by that is cleaning, agricultural, service industry? I personally don't think so.

Indians, Pakistanis and Bangladeshis didn't pick berries and tatties because a lot of them showed great entrepeneurship opened family businesses. Is a owning a business a 'worthwhile' occupation for immigrants?

Immigrants doing menial work has both historical and current context. The history of Britain shows many influxes of immigrants over time. In particular the Irish and West Indians have come to this country and had to start out doing menial work. More recently the exponential growth of our economy in the 1990s and early 2000s coupled with EU immigration laws created an environment in Britain where there was many new low paid jobs and a large supply of immigrant workers.

[ArabHibee]

OK here it is.

I think that growing up, you have been surrounded by people, who like you, think that a word with more than two syllables is a 'fancy word' and if you were to try and use these 'fancy words' you would be shot down by your toothless Dundonian mates. Instead of having a bit of back bone and developing your vocabulary regardless you felt that to fit in you'd be better off adopting this attitude as well.

:faf: That made me laugh, it truly did. Especially the "toothless Dundonian mates". :top marks

[BravestHibs]

:faf: That made me laugh, it truly did. Especially the "toothless Dundonian mates". :top marks

I'm glad you liked it. Would you say it was accurate?

[ArabHibee]

I'm glad you liked it. Would you say it was accurate?

90% accurate. I don't have any mates (due to my extreme racism) and you forgot that I was a Killers fan.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Indians, Pakistanis and Bangladeshis didn't pick berries and tatties because a lot of them showed great entrepeneurship opened family businesses. Is a owning a business a 'worthwhile' occupation for immigrants?

Immigrants doing menial work has both historical and current context. The history of Britain shows many influxes of immigrants over time. In particular the Irish and West Indians have come to this country and had to start out doing menial work. More recently the exponential growth of our economy in the 1990s and early 2000s coupled with EU immigration laws created an environment in Britain where there was many new low paid jobs and a large supply of immigrant workers.

A lot of Irish people used to go to the berries. And I'm not sure what nationality gypsy travellers are classed as.

[ArabHibee]

My nemesis has gone!! :boo hoo:

[Sylar]

I sincerely hope BravestHibs requested to leave, and wasn't just punted :confused:

[Phil D. Rolls]

My nemesis has gone!! :boo hoo:

If he was your Nemesis it is you who would be gone. You are his Nemesis. :greengrin

[ArabHibee]

If he was your Nemesis it is you who would be gone. You are his Nemesis. :greengrin

I really should stop trying to use big words, shouldn't I? :greengrin

You're next FR. :devil:

[steve75]

Just like to add the root of this argument in pretty much non-exisiting as one of the 'Winter Lights' is

"Merry Christmas from Dundee City Council"

[ArabHibee]

Just like to add the root of this argument in pretty much non-exisiting as one of the 'Winter Lights' is

"Merry Christmas from Dundee City Council"

:faf: I saw that too and was going to take a photo and post it on here but couldn't be bothered.

On the other hand, they've had that decoration for a few years and probably can't afford to buy another one so just keep putting it up.

[steve75]

:faf: I saw that too and was going to take a photo and post it on here but couldn't be bothered.

On the other hand, they've had that decoration for a few years and probably can't afford to buy another one so just keep putting it up.

Yeah same lights they always have, though you would have thought someone would have noticed and changed that one.

Clearly someone has said to the person incharge of organising the fesivities in Dundee to change its name, and just went "aye, whatever, couldn't really care, it's going to be exactly the same anyway."

[McSwanky]

I sincerely hope BravestHibs requested to leave, and wasn't just punted :confused:

I think he/she was punted for inaccurate use of commas. Glad to see the admins are finally opening a can of whoopass on the persistent offenders. I fully expect a raft of 'big names' to follow.

:thumbsup:

[Phil D. Rolls]

Just like to add the root of this argument in pretty much non-exisiting as one of the 'Winter Lights' is

"Merry Christmas from Dundee City Council"

Kind of sums up all these "PC Brigade" stories. When you look at the facts it's just another case of people swallowing an urban myth. Perhaps the person who started the thread might acknowledge this?

People have spent a lot of time debating the issue and listening to points of view. IMO it would only be decent to admit a mistake when you have been shown to be so spectacularly wrong. It stands to reason if you can be so wrong about one thing then maybe you can be wrong about others.

Come on AH, you've had a lot of fair play from everyone on this, despite some of the obnoxious and ignorant things you've said. The least you can do is be fair back the way.

[Betty Boop]

My nemesis has gone!! :boo hoo:

I am sure there are plenty more you can goad, with your racist rants.

[Green Mikey]

:faf:

:fishin:

:stirrer:


OK here it is.

I think that growing up, you have been surrounded by people, who like you, think that a word with more than two syllables is a 'fancy word' and if you were to try and use these 'fancy words' you would be shot down by your toothless Dundonian mates. Instead of having a bit of back bone and developing your vocabulary regardless you felt that to fit in you'd be better off adopting this attitude as well.

I wonder if BravestHibs had followed up his post with smileys he would still be on the board? Personally, I think his rant was a lot less offensice than what you posted.

ArabHibee, I hope you don't think that the BH getting banned vindicates any of your racist views.

[ArabHibee]

Kind of sums up all these "PC Brigade" stories. When you look at the facts it's just another case of people swallowing an urban myth. Perhaps the person who started the thread might acknowledge this?

People have spent a lot of time debating the issue and listening to points of view. IMO it would only be decent to admit a mistake when you have been shown to be so spectacularly wrong. It stands to reason if you can be so wrong about one thing then maybe you can be wrong about others.

Come on AH, you've had a lot of fair play from everyone on this, despite some of the obnoxious and ignorant things you've said. The least you can do is be fair back the way.

Sorry, didn't you read my reply to the person who posted about the lights? And his response? As far as I am concerned, the Council changed the name of the Christmas Light switch on so as not to offend minority races. The reason the said light display was still put up was, in my opinion, because they couldn't afford to get another one, and at the end of the day, money talks over being 'PC'.

So no, I'm not admitting any mistake, as in my opinion, I haven't made one.

And I've had a lot of fair play on here? Are you having a laugh?


I wonder if BravestHibs had followed up his post with smileys he would still be on the board? Personally, I think his rant was a lot less offensice than what you posted.

ArabHibee, I hope you don't think that the BH getting banned vindicates any of your racist views.

FYI BravestHibs was not banned because of what he was posting on this thread, so please don't try and blame me for him not being able to stay within the forum rules. He liked to have a personal pop at me for any reason he could think of and I'm not just talking about the views on this thread. I'll shed no tears for him being banned.

As for my racist views, pffff, whatever. They are my views and I'm entitled to them. As I've said, I think the majority of people are racist, they just won't admit it. Depends what you class as racist I suppose.

In fact, here is a question for you. Would you class someone as racist if they laugh at racist jokes?

[Phil D. Rolls]

Sorry, didn't you read my reply to the person who posted about the lights? And his response? As far as I am concerned, the Council changed the name of the Christmas Light switch on so as not to offend minority races. The reason the said light display was still put up was, in my opinion, because they couldn't afford to get another one, and at the end of the day, money talks over being 'PC'.

So no, I'm not admitting any mistake, as in my opinion, I haven't made one.

And I've had a lot of fair play on here? Are you having a laugh?


Fair play - you called me arsey and I'm a Protestant (think about it).:greengrin

I think you have had fair play, considering the lack of logic in a lot of your posts, and considering the horrible things you say about immigration I reckon your lucky that you haven't been taken to bits before now.

Can I ask you this. If Dundee Council were scared of offending immigrants - obviously not those of Irish extraction, or Italian or other whiteys who have been here longer than most racists' memories stretch (usually six or seven days) - then why, oh why, oh why do they still have a sign in the centre of town that says "Merry Christmas"?

Doesn't really add up at all does it? Neither does any of the other stuff you say. I'm not saying any more because I have a 37 year female cousin who lives in your neck of the woods, and I'm frightened you might be her.:greengrin

[Betty Boop]

Sorry, didn't you read my reply to the person who posted about the lights? And his response? As far as I am concerned, the Council changed the name of the Christmas Light switch on so as not to offend minority races. The reason the said light display was still put up was, in my opinion, because they couldn't afford to get another one, and at the end of the day, money talks over being 'PC'.

So no, I'm not admitting any mistake, as in my opinion, I haven't made one.

And I've had a lot of fair play on here? Are you having a laugh?



FYI BravestHibs was not banned because of what he was posting on this thread, so please don't try and blame me for him not being able to stay within the forum rules. He liked to have a personal pop at me for any reason he could think of and I'm not just talking about the views on this thread. I'll shed no tears for him being banned.

As for my racist views, pffff, whatever. They are my views and I'm entitled to them. As I've said, I think the majority of people are racist, they just won't admit it. Depends what you class as racist I suppose.

In fact, here is a question for you. Would you class someone as racist if they laugh at racist jokes?

Is that the same forum rules that you stayed within, when you posted a list of those who did not agree with you and branded them a clique? :greengrin

[Green Mikey]

FYI BravestHibs was not banned because of what he was posting on this thread, so please don't try and blame me for him not being able to stay within the forum rules. He liked to have a personal pop at me for any reason he could think of and I'm not just talking about the views on this thread. I'll shed no tears for him being banned.

My point still stands re Bravest. If he put a collection of smileys after every offensive post would it got him off the hook?


As for my racist views, pffff, whatever. They are my views and I'm entitled to them. As I've said, I think the majority of people are racist, they just won't admit it. Depends what you class as racist I suppose.

I must be in the minority then:wink: Would you like the majority of people to admit to be racist so that could air your views without having to halfheartedly recind them through smileys?

What do you class as a racist? Personally, I would say it is someone like you...believe that the majority hold your view yet backtrack when it is questioned...show complete ignorance to immigrants and the role they play in our society...brand anyone who disagrees with you as a 'do-gooder' or the 'PC brigade'.



In fact, here is a question for you. Would you class someone as racist if they laugh at racist jokes?

Depends on the joke, the circumstances and the people involved, nothing is that black and white.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Is that the same forum rules that you stayed within, when you posted a list of those who did not agree with you and branded them a clique? :greengrin

I think they are in the sub-section that includes pretending you're on the wind up when caught plagiarish Richard Littlejohn.

Doh! Cliquey behaviour again - you haven't seen me, right?

[ArabHibee]

Fair play - you called me arsey and I'm a Protestant (think about it).:greengrin

I think you have had fair play, considering the lack of logic in a lot of your posts, and considering the horrible things you say about immigration I reckon your lucky that you haven't been taken to bits before now.

Can I ask you this. If Dundee Council were scared of offending immigrants - obviously not those of Irish extraction, or Italian or other whiteys who have been here longer than most racists' memories stretch (usually six or seven days) - then why, oh why, oh why do they still have a sign in the centre of town that says "Merry Christmas"?

Doesn't really add up at all does it? Neither does any of the other stuff you say. I'm not saying any more because I have a 37 year female cousin who lives in your neck of the woods, and I'm frightened you might be her.:greengrin

FFS!! Didn't you read my last post? Obviously not. :rolleyes: IN MY OPINION it's to do with money, plain and simple. Can't afford another lighted sign. End of.

And you're definitely not my cousin. I can assure you of that. So please continue with your beratement.

---------- Post added at 07:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:45 PM ----------


Is that the same forum rules that you stayed within, when you posted a list of those who did not agree with you and branded them a clique? :greengrin

Probably, but you'll need to ask the admin that deleted the post that won't you? :greengrin

[Phil D. Rolls]

FFS!! Didn't you read my last post? Obviously not. :rolleyes: IN MY OPINION it's to do with money, plain and simple. Can't afford another lighted sign. End of.

And you're definitely not my cousin. I can assure you of that. So please continue with your beratement.

---------- Post added at 07:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:45 PM ----------



Probably, but you'll need to ask the admin that deleted the post that won't you? :greengrin

I get it, opinion falls into two schools of thought:idea:. You and the rest of the world. :faf:

If they couldn't afford a new sign why didn't they just keep the old one in the shed?:dunno:

Me and my berate are very happy together by the way, and if you try to send it back to Beratia then you'll meet a very angry clique (me and my real cousin) standing next to your tractor in the morning.

[ArabHibee]

My point still stands re Bravest. If he put a collection of smileys after every offensive post would it got him off the hook?

Again, you'll need to ask the admin team that. Possibly you don't know the whole story as to why he was banned. I would hazard a guess that the fact that he was very good at slinging personal insults at people might have been a factor.

I must be in the minority then:wink: Would you like the majority of people to admit to be racist so that could air your views without having to halfheartedly recind them through smileys?

I just feel that quite a lot of people deny being racist when they probably are.

What do you class as a racist? Personally, I would say it is someone like you...believe that the majority hold your view yet backtrack when it is questioned...show complete ignorance to immigrants and the role they play in our society...brand anyone who disagrees with you as a 'do-gooder' or the 'PC brigade'.

Isn't it great to live in a democracy where people can share their views, even if they don't agree? I have no issue with you calling me racist, I have reasons for having these views which I'm not discussing here. They may be blinkered, but so be it.

Depends on the joke, the circumstances and the people involved, nothing is that black and white.
Sorry, but I don't agree. I know a lot of people who would deny being a racist but would laugh at any kind of racist joke going. Are they racist?


"Two things that I really hate in this world:

One is racists

The other is pakis"

If you laugh, are you a racist?

[ArabHibee]

I get it, opinion falls into two schools of thought:idea:. You and the rest of the world. :faf:

If they couldn't afford a new sign why didn't they just keep the old one in the shed?:dunno:

Me and my berate are very happy together by the way, and if you try to send it back to Beratia then you'll meet a very angry clique (me and my real cousin) standing next to your tractor in the morning.

Because it's their big fancy dancy one at the end of the main street going into the City Square. They can't leave it down because then the circuit for the lights wouldn't be finished off and none of them would work. Jeezo!

Wish I'd had a tractor to get through the snow on Tuesday night when I was coming home.:yawn:

[Phil D. Rolls]

"Two things that I really hate in this world:

One is racists

The other is pakis"

If you laugh, are you a racist?

I would say "not". That's because the joke is at the expense of someone too ignorant to appreciate the irony of what he has just said.

I prefer the more PC jokes. This is one I used to tell when I was taxi driving.

"I had a Hindu, a Jew and a Catholic in the back of the cab last night".......

(Pause whilst passengers turn pale, and put on faces which are a cross between a smile and what you would do if you found **** on your toothbrush).

....I thought what a great example of religious harmony".

The joke there (as I see it) is that they made an assumption about me, sized me up, and expected a racist punchline. The fact that they saw potential racism in the joke points to their own prejudices.

But when a joke hurts a racial group then that is racist. That's how I see it, I had Ed Byrne, Dara O'Brain and a couple of other well known comics in the cab once, and that's how they see it as well.

And if a couple of Micks agree with you then.......doh!


Because it's their big fancy dancy one at the end of the main street going into the City Square. They can't leave it down because then the circuit for the lights wouldn't be finished off and none of them would work. Jeezo!

Wish I'd had a tractor to get through the snow on Tuesday night when I was coming home.:yawn:

It's made itself at home in Dundee anyway.

[Green Mikey]

Isn't it great to live in a democracy where people can share their views, even if they don't agree? I have no issue with you calling me racist, I have reasons for having these views which I'm not discussing here. They may be blinkered, but so be it.


I was right, you are a racist. What a terrible thing to be.

[ArabHibee]

I would say "not". That's because the joke is at the expense of someone too ignorant to appreciate the irony of what he has just said.

I prefer the more PC jokes. This is one I used to tell when I was taxi driving.

"I had a Hindu, a Jew and a Catholic in the back of the cab last night".......

(Pause whilst passengers turn pale, and put on faces which are a cross between a smile and what you would do if you found **** on your toothbrush).

....I thought what a great example of religious harmony".

The joke there (as I see it) is that they made an assumption about me, sized me up, and expected a racist punchline. The fact that they saw potential racism in the joke points to their own prejudices.

But when a joke hurts a racial group then that is racist. That's how I see it, I had Ed Byrne, Dara O'Brain and a couple of other well known comics in the cab once, and that's how they see it as well.

And if a couple of Micks agree with you then.......doh!



It's made itself at home in Dundee anyway.

A joke stolen from John Thomson, well done. :clapper:


I was right, you are a racist. What a terrible thing to be.

And it's taken you 204 posts to work that out. Go you!

[LiverpoolHibs]

I have reasons for having these views which I'm not discussing here.

Oh go on...


I would say "not". That's because the joke is at the expense of someone too ignorant to appreciate the irony of what he has just said.

I prefer the more PC jokes. This is one I used to tell when I was taxi driving.

"I had a Hindu, a Jew and a Catholic in the back of the cab last night".......

(Pause whilst passengers turn pale, and put on faces which are a cross between a smile and what you would do if you found **** on your toothbrush).

....I thought what a great example of religious harmony".

The joke there (as I see it) is that they made an assumption about me, sized me up, and expected a racist punchline. The fact that they saw potential racism in the joke points to their own prejudices.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svLyyzBC_qI

:greengrin

[ArabHibee]

Oh go on...

Nope! :greengrin

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svLyyzBC_qI

:greengrin

That's the bunny! The whole Live 'n' Lewd show is brilliant. One of my favourite Steve Coogan shows. :thumbsup:

[Phil D. Rolls]

A joke stolen from John Thomson, well done. :clapper:

:fishin:
:stirrer:
:devil:

Have I got this right?

[ArabHibee]

:fishin:
:stirrer:
:devil:

Have I got this right?

Nah, you forgot this one:

:asshole:

[Green Mikey]

And it's taken you 204 posts to work that out. Go you!

It's taken me so long to work this out because it was previously beyond my reckoning that someone with such foul views could be so triumphant about voluntarily adopting a 'blinkered view'.

ArabHibee - Racist and proud.

[ArabHibee]

It's taken me so long to work this out because it was previously beyond my reckoning that someone with such foul views could be so triumphant about voluntarily adopting a 'blinkered view'.

ArabHibee - Racist and proud.

:dancer: Go Arab, Go Arab

Suppose if you're bothering me, you're leaving someone else alone.

[Twa Cairpets]

"Two things that I really hate in this world:

One is racists

The other is pakis"

If you laugh, are you a racist?

Didnt laugh because, well, it just wasnt funny.

A couple of queries for you Arab

1) Taking your "if they cant speak the language they shouldnt be here" idea. Lets say Miss Pole comes over. Intelligent, degree educated, ambitious but not great at English. She wants to learn, and wants to earn her way rather than accept any form of hand out. So she gets a job with a catering comapny who put here on a serving job at Easter Road one day a week. Good opportunity to learn english, interacting in a real environment, you would have thought. By your lights, is she not allowed to even set foot inside the country until she can speak English, or kept in a darkened classroom living in the country with no means of support until she can converse to an Arab define acceptable level.

2) Are Americans or Australians coming over doing bar work or the like ok?

[ArabHibee]

Didnt laugh because, well, it just wasnt funny.

A couple of queries for you Arab

1) Taking your "if they cant speak the language they shouldnt be here" idea. Lets say Miss Pole comes over. Intelligent, degree educated, ambitious but not great at English. She wants to learn, and wants to earn her way rather than accept any form of hand out. So she gets a job with a catering comapny who put here on a serving job at Easter Road one day a week. Good opportunity to learn english, interacting in a real environment, you would have thought. By your lights, is she not allowed to even set foot inside the country until she can speak English, or kept in a darkened classroom living in the country with no means of support until she can converse to an Arab define acceptable level.

2) Are Americans or Australians coming over doing bar work or the like ok?

You're up late tonight!

Read through my previous posts, you'll find the answers to your questions in there.

Or draw your own conclusions, I really couldn't give a hoot. I've been outed as a racist, what more proof do you want?

[Twa Cairpets]

You're up late tonight!

Read through my previous posts, you'll find the answers to your questions in there.

Or draw your own conclusions, I really couldn't give a hoot. I've been outed as a racist, what more proof do you want?

Loving it.

The latest switch of attitude now is the slightly aloof, brushing it off approach. Worthy of inclusion on the "inverse snobbery" thread.

Would you take blood from a Pole, or have an operation performed by an Indian, or maybe have a haircut by an italian? Seriously, you need to think about stuff, realise you live in a big world, and emerge out of your little stupidity cocoon.

[ArabHibee]

Ok, you're not going to leave it until I answer the questions for you:


Didnt laugh because, well, it just wasnt funny.

A couple of queries for you Arab

1) Taking your "if they cant speak the language they shouldnt be here" idea. Lets say Miss Pole comes over. Intelligent, degree educated, ambitious but not great at English. She wants to learn, and wants to earn her way rather than accept any form of hand out. So she gets a job with a catering comapny who put here on a serving job at Easter Road one day a week. Good opportunity to learn english, interacting in a real environment, you would have thought. By your lights, is she not allowed to even set foot inside the country until she can speak English, or kept in a darkened classroom living in the country with no means of support until she can converse to an Arab define acceptable level.

So what exactly is she bringing to the table at this precise moment in time? Nothing. So she can stay in Poland and live an earning there.

2) Are Americans or Australians coming over doing bar work or the like ok?
Not particularly, but at least they speak English




Loving it.

The latest switch of attitude now is the slightly aloof, brushing it off approach. Worthy of inclusion on the "inverse snobbery" thread.

Would you take blood from a Pole, Not if I could help it
or have an operation performed by an Indian, would I have a choice on the NHS?
or maybe have a haircut by an italian? My hairdresser is Scottish. Fair enough, she's a Tim, but you can't have it all your own way.
Seriously, you need to think about stuff, realise you live in a big world, and emerge out of your little stupidity cocoon.

And FYI I'm not being slightly aloof, I'm getting bored of answering the same questions all the time.

[Twa Cairpets]

Ok, you're not going to leave it until I answer the questions for you:

And FYI I'm not being slightly aloof, I'm getting bored of answering the same questions all the time.

Wow.
And wow again.
I think I'll duck out of this thread now as your level of unpleasantness and deep, deep fundamental ignorance is clearly beyond any redemption or grown up discussion.

I'm almost tempted to patronise you by saying I feel sorry for you, but I don't, because you are clearly wilfully stupid which is an unforgiveable arrogance.

[ArabHibee]

Wow.
And wow again.
I think I'll duck out of this thread now as your level of unpleasantness and deep, deep fundamental ignorance is clearly beyond any redemption or grown up discussion.

I'm almost tempted to patronise you by saying I feel sorry for you, but I don't, because you are clearly wilfully stupid which is an unforgiveable arrogance.

Cheers.

Thanks for your input.

NEXT!

[Betty Boop]

Well what do you know, according to this article one in five Scots are unable to read or write properly, and employers are being forced to hire staff who cannot communicate adequately in the workplace. Maybe we should get our own house in order, before lambasting immigrants for their communication skills.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/scotland/article6943751.ece

[Twa Cairpets]

Well what do you know, according to this article one in five Scots are unable to read or write properly, and employers are being forced to hire staff who cannot communicate adequately in the workplace. Maybe we should get our own house in order, before lambasting immigrants for their communication skills.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/scotland/article6943751.ece

Thats all well and good though, but ours are good anglo-saxon/celtic stock illiterates (apart from 2nd or 3rd generation italians or irish of course, but they dont reallycount as yer actual foreigners, ken), none of these slavic educationally sub-normals here. Oh no.

I mean, isnt it better to have someone say;
"Haw man, goannae gies that hingmy,ken? wi' the hing likes" in a kind of defensively mumbled slack jawed drawl rather than. "Please, where may this be, where is it" in less than Arabesquely perfect English but in a strong Polish accent.

[Betty Boop]

Thats all well and good though, but ours are good anglo-saxon/celtic stock illiterates (apart from 2nd or 3rd generation italians or irish of course, but they dont reallycount as yer actual foreigners, ken), none of these slavic educationally sub-normals here. Oh no.

I mean, isnt it better to have someone say;
"Haw man, goannae gies that hingmy,ken? wi' the hing likes" in a kind of defensively mumbled slack jawed drawl rather than. "Please, where may this be, where is it" in less than Arabesquely perfect English but in a strong Polish accent.

Quite! :greengrin

[Twa Cairpets]

Question was actually directed at BravestHibs, which he chose to ignore. More so for the fact that he picks up on every little error that people (who he doesn't agree with) make, whether it be spelling, grammar, punctuation or the like.

I personally don't know if they were Eastern European, I don't think if I had asked them that they would have been able to answer, seeing as they didn't speak English.

Whatever floats yer boat. I don't mind being called small-minded, racist or whatever other fancy words you want to use. I don't agree with people coming to this country to work unless they are bringing something worthwhile with them and that they can speak English.

Anyone else getting the unintentional irony here?

[Green Mikey]

:dancer: Go Arab, Go Arab

Suppose if you're bothering me, you're leaving someone else alone.

'you're leaving someone else alone' haha very good. I would ask what you are basing this view on but there will be no point in that.

I won't be bothering you any longer, I have take no pleasure in reading your posts.