Renegotiation of Old firm rights etc...

[...WentToMowAnSPL]

What's the possibilities of putting a squeeze on the gate receipts , t.v revenue etc and reducing their income now the prospect of the flight down south seems to have receeded ?

[Dashing Bob S]

What's the possibilities of putting a squeeze on the gate receipts , t.v revenue etc and reducing their income now the prospect of the flight down south seems to have receeded ?

With the spineless OF collaborators who run football, i'd say no chance whatsoever.

[Bad Martini]

We should tell them they play by our rules or they can piss off to england....ah but wait, the epl has already told them to bolt anaw.

As I said affore, ah wonder how they'd go about getting into europe without the spl to play in and with nobody but eachother to play?

I really would like to see how they'd react to that. We may need the tv money and the corporate interest but THEY NEED us I.e. the rest of the spl, or they are ****ed.

[Horse]

We should tell them they play by our rules or they can piss off to england....ah but wait, the epl has already told them to bolt anaw.

As I said affore, ah wonder how they'd go about getting into europe without the spl to play in and with nobody but eachother to play?

I really would like to see how they'd react to that. We may need the tv money and the corporate interest but THEY NEED us I.e. the rest of the spl, or they are ****ed.

Aye, it's about time the rest of Scottish fitba realised that they need us more than we need them and united against them!

[Bostonhibby]

If it truly was an open market, the rest of the SPL would have them by the short ones, but by the time the vested interests / SFA finish thinking about the logical outcome of the fact that 2 of their members tried to exit and rob them of a chunk of their income and status, and failed, they would quickly fall back to the comfortable mediocrity that existed before. They would then be reassured that the salaries they pay themselves from the income that flows from nothing changing is assured and put 2 fingers up to the rest of us. Not much change there then, EPL gain is our loss.

[NAE NOOKIE]

If you had nowhere to stay and went round to a friends house looking for a bed for the night, would you empty the fridge, hog the telly and expect to get the best bed. Not if you had any class you wouldnt.

That is what the ugly sisters are now and its time that their place in the great scheme of things was redefined by the rest of Scottish Football.

There has never been a better opportunity for us to dictate to them what should happen to the TV money etc etc.

After all, what can the threaten if they dont get their own way.

They cant strike their own TV deal coz as far as I know they need the permission of the clubs they are playing to screen matches, not to mention the SPL / SFL.

They could ask their ' fans ' to stop attending away matches, but the truth is that isnt the threat it once would have been. Take Hibs as an example, before ER was rebuilt the OF support could be as high as 10,000 now its less than 4,000. The same goes for all of the other SPL grounds apart from Killie.

But .... Will the so far Witless, spineless goons who run Scottish football have the brains and guts to grasp a heaven sent chance to change the status quo for ever.

:bitchy::rolleyes::bitchy:

[McD]

If you had nowhere to stay and went round to a friends house looking for a bed for the night, would you empty the fridge, hog the telly and expect to get the best bed. Not if you had any class you wouldnt.

That is what the ugly sisters are now and its time that their place in the great scheme of things was redefined by the rest of Scottish Football.

There has never been a better opportunity for us to dictate to them what should happen to the TV money etc etc.

After all, what can the threaten if they dont get their own way.

They cant strike their own TV deal coz as far as I know they need the permission of the clubs they are playing to screen matches, not to mention the SPL / SFL.

They could ask their ' fans ' to stop attending away matches, but the truth is that isnt the threat it once would have been. Take Hibs as an example, before ER was rebuilt the OF support could be as high as 10,000 now its less than 4,000. The same goes for all of the other SPL grounds apart from Killie.

But .... Will the so far Witless, spineless goons who run Scottish football have the brains and guts to grasp a heaven sent chance to change the status quo for ever.

:bitchy::rolleyes::bitchy:

Well said.

The old firm are parasites on scottish fitba, and for far too long the rest of the teams have allowed themselves to be bullied into what they want.

Take the moment and chance to screw the pressure on them even more and force a re-distribution of monies.

[Bostonhibby]

Well said.

The old firm are parasites on scottish fitba, and for far too long the rest of the teams have allowed themselves to be bullied into what they want.

Take the moment and chance to screw the pressure on them even more and force a re-distribution of monies.

:agree: is there a gap here for Rod Petrie to step in and screw them again? or will one of them poach him to sort their business out?

[...WentToMowAnSPL]

:agree: is there a gap here for Rod Petrie to step in and screw them again? or will one of them poach him to sort their business out?

Now that is scary .. Hands Off Petrie

[ancient hibee]

What a load of tosh-they get no more income than is available to every other club in the SPL.The only reason that they get more is because of the abysmal lack of challenge for the top 2 positions in the league.

[NAE NOOKIE]

What a load of tosh-they get no more income than is available to every other club in the SPL.The only reason that they get more is because of the abysmal lack of challenge for the top 2 positions in the league.

Perhaps there is a misaprehension that the OF get a bigger share of the TV money then. Can you explain ?

[blueisthecolour]

Perhaps there is a misaprehension that the OF get a bigger share of the TV money then. Can you explain ?

You get more cash the higher up the table you finish, so if Hibs where to finish 2nd behind rangers and above celtic they would get more cash that celtic.

[CallumLaidlaw]

What a load of tosh-they get no more income than is available to every other club in the SPL.The only reason that they get more is because of the abysmal lack of challenge for the top 2 positions in the league.

do clubs not also get a share of the amount of times they are on tv, so because rantic are on every week, they get the most cash.

Regards prize money, it is split much more evenly down south. Up here the top 2 get the most by far, then the rest is a much smaller split

[blueisthecolour]

do clubs not also get a share of the amount of times they are on tv, so because rantic are on every week, they get the most cash.

Regards prize money, it is split much more evenly down south. Up here the top 2 get the most by far, then the rest is a much smaller split

You hit the nail on the head here, Rangers and celtic are on tv every week so are inconvenienced by changes to times and days the games are played, this is the compensation shall we say.

There is a reason why Rangers and celtic are always on the tv and im sure I don't need to say why that is.

[gilliecabbage]

If you had nowhere to stay and went round to a friends house looking for a bed for the night, would you empty the fridge, hog the telly and expect to get the best bed. Not if you had any class you wouldnt.


:top marks ur 100% correct!

this is an opportunity to get it up them once again.we could effectively end there strangle hold on scottish football.

clubs are running alot more efficiently than 10 years ago with the exception of hearts rangers and celtic.put all the chips on the table and tell them we want an equal split of the tv money or they can play against eachother 38 times a year and the 10 spl clubs start a new league and join up wi the 1st division teams

[blueisthecolour]

:top marks ur 100% correct!

this is an opportunity to get it up them once again.we could effectively end there strangle hold on scottish football.

clubs are running alot more efficiently than 10 years ago with the exception of hearts rangers and celtic.put all the chips on the table and tell them we want an equal split of the tv money or they can play against eachother 38 times a year and the 10 spl clubs start a new league and join up wi the 1st division teams

The tv stations would be falling over themselfs for the rights to that.

[CallumLaidlaw]

You hit the nail on the head here, Rangers and celtic are on tv every week so are inconvenienced by changes to times and days the games are played, this is the compensation shall we say.

There is a reason why Rangers and celtic are always on the tv and im sure I don't need to say why that is.

Its a very difficult argument this one. There is obviously a lot of Hibs supporters that go to the games every week that would prefer a Saturday 3pm kick off every week, while there will be a number of hibs fans that would rather hibs were on at 12pm sat/sun, 8pm Monday, so they can watch them on TV.
Alternative times/days are a pain in the arse, but as you say, you financial "compensation" more than makes up for it

[CallumLaidlaw]

The tv stations would be falling over themselfs for the rights to that.

It isnt necessarily about that. We would get a tv deal of SOME kind, but if more games were at 3pm, and more clubs had a chance of winning the league, then the crowds would increase, and we would get the revenue that way. Hibs highest attendences in the last 10 years were in division 1 I believe.

[blueisthecolour]

Its a very difficult argument this one. There is obviously a lot of Hibs supporters that go to the games every week that would prefer a Saturday 3pm kick off every week, while there will be a number of hibs fans that would rather hibs were on at 12pm sat/sun, 8pm Monday, so they can watch them on TV.
Alternative times/days are a pain in the arse, but as you say, you financial "compensation" more than makes up for it

No one thinks of the fans, the last couple of years im sure it was we have been to Inverness and aberdeen on sundays around xmas/new year time with 12-30 kick offs, not the easiest of places to get to on a sunday for that time.

[blueisthecolour]

It isnt necessarily about that. We would get a tv deal of SOME kind, but if more games were at 3pm, and more clubs had a chance of winning the league, then the crowds would increase, and we would get the revenue that way. Hibs highest attendences in the last 10 years were in division 1 I believe.

Im not having a go at the fans here, but what has happened to these fans, they turn out in numbers in the lower league to see the team get promotion the the big league but once in the big league the attendance drops.

Is it the price of games or is it because they know realistically there is no chance of the title?

[blackpoolhibs]

It isnt necessarily about that. We would get a tv deal of SOME kind, but if more games were at 3pm, and more clubs had a chance of winning the league, then the crowds would increase, and we would get the revenue that way. Hibs highest attendences in the last 10 years were in division 1 I believe.

That not true Callum.

[CallumLaidlaw]

That not true Callum.

thats why I added "I believe". I knew I'd be wrong :wink:

[blackpoolhibs]

thats why I added "I believe". I knew I'd be wrong :wink:

We actually had some decent crowds, but the attendances dipped a little, as there was very few away fans coming to easter road.

[gilliecabbage]

The tv stations would be falling over themselfs for the rights to that.

what percentage do the old firm get from the current tv deal? about 30 % and the rest get 70 between them.my facts are probly way off but anyway

each spl club outwith the old firm gets around 1.2 million a yr from the tv deal.if we wer to introduce the 1st division clubs into and kicked the old firm out and say sold the rights at 20m a yr and teams like hibs hearts aberdeen and dundee united took a slightly bigger chunk than the rest.we could better that 1.2 million.which could cover the loss of the old firm and slightly lower attendances.but not only that we can save scottish teams like morton, raith, livi and so on by giving them light at the end of the tunnel with alot more tv money than available to them.

my numbers will no doubt be wrong but i wont be far away.
we may not get 20m a year i know but we could find out well before goin down this road.the league would be more competitive and we wouldnt have to put up wi they c***s anymore.

[CallumLaidlaw]

what percentage do the old firm get from the current tv deal? about 30 % and the rest get 70 between them.my facts are probly way off but anyway

each spl club outwith the old firm gets around 1.2 million a yr from the tv deal.if we wer to introduce the 1st division clubs into and kicked the old firm out and say sold the rights at 20m a yr and teams like hibs hearts aberdeen and dundee united took a slightly bigger chunk than the rest.we could better that 1.2 million.which could cover the loss of the old firm and slightly lower attendances.but not only that we can save scottish teams like morton, raith, livi and so on by giving them light at the end of the tunnel with alot more tv money than available to them.

my numbers will no doubt be wrong but i wont be far away.
we may not get 20m a year i know but we could find out well before goin down this road.the league would be more competitive and we wouldnt have to put up wi they c***s anymore.

well the current deal WITH rantic is worth just under £22m a season, so we would get nowhere near that without them.
Personally I think we would survive, but I'm not sure about smaller clubs

[gilliecabbage]

well the current deal WITH rantic is worth just under £22m a season, so we would get nowhere near that without them.
Personally I think we would survive, but I'm not sure about smaller clubs

any income they would get would help.ther gates would increase as we would be seen as one of the teams to beat and theyd turn out up ther game.not to mention a chance at europe.most likely be a qualifier or 2 but its an opportunity.i dont think we would be anyworse off if we went down this route.

may even have a shout at the scottish cup:duck:

[The_Sauz]

During the Sky deal, both Celtic & Rangers were each given 25% of the deal, then when it came to renewing the contract, both clubs demanded more, and that's why Sky pulled the plug. The Sentana (sp) deal gave Celtic & Rangers each 30% plus their own "TV on Demand football" show to generate more income.
The current ESPN deal gives all SPL clubs an equal share. but clubs who finish higher in the league get a bigger share of the bonus money and that why both Celtic & Rangers did not anybody to agree to the deal :agree:

[ancient hibee]

During the Sky deal, both Celtic & Rangers were each given 25% of the deal, then when it came to renewing the contract, both clubs demanded more, and that's why Sky pulled the plug. The Sentana (sp) deal gave Celtic & Rangers each 30% plus their own "TV on Demand football" show to generate more income.
The current ESPN deal gives all SPL clubs an equal share. but clubs who finish higher in the league get a bigger share of the bonus money and that why both Celtic & Rangers did not anybody to agree to the deal :agree:
Sorry but this is rubbish.The current deal is exactly the same as the Setanta deal.Around 48% is split into 12 equal shares and the remainder goes into the prize pot to be split according to league position at the end of the season.

Clubs only get paid a fee for appearing if BBC cover a cup game.

[Woody1985]

Sorry but this is rubbish.The current deal is exactly the same as the Setanta deal.Around 48% is split into 12 equal shares and the remainder goes into the prize pot to be split according to league position at the end of the season.

Clubs only get paid a fee for appearing if BBC cover a cup game.

:agree:

Hibbyradge has posted the stats up here before. I think that 1st gets 17%, 2nd 15% and then it drops to something like 12%, then 9%. It's weighted so that those two ****my ***** will always be able to build a little more of a gap every season.

[ancient hibee]

:agree:

Hibbyradge has posted the stats up here before. I think that 1st gets 17%, 2nd 15% and then it drops to something like 12%, then 9%. It's weighted so that those two ****my ***** will always be able to build a little more of a gap every season.

Not if other teams(eg Hearts)finish in the top 2 places.The 17% is of course 17% of 52%(that is the amount of the prize pool).

[Woody1985]

Not if other teams(eg Hearts)finish in the top 2 places.The 17% is of course 17% of 52%(that is the amount of the prize pool).

But it gets harder to bridge that gap each season, or it certainly should if the OF don't waste money on **** players.

[ancient hibee]

But it gets harder to bridge that gap each season, or it certainly should if the OF don't waste money on **** players.

Not sure that the TV money is as important as it was.Think of Rangers income of thirty odd million only about two was TV money.

[Caversham Green]

The actual amounts clubs received for broadcasting in 2008 were:

Rangers (2nd) - £5.4m
Hearts (3rd) - £4.2m*
Aberdeen (4th) - £3.8m

I don't have Celtc's accounts and the other clubs don't publish breakdowns of their turnover.

For a point of reference, Reading's broadcasting income for the same year (the year they were relegated from the EPL) was £33.7m.

*I've got this figure wrong - see post 35.

[ancient hibee]

The actual amounts clubs received for broadcasting in 2008 were:

Rangers (2nd) - £5.4m
Hearts (3rd) - £4.2m
Aberdeen (4th) - £3.8m

I don't have Celtc's accounts and the other clubs don't publish breakdowns of their turnover.

For a point of reference, Reading's broadcasting income for the same year (the year they were relegated from the EPL) was £33.7m.
Don't think it was just broadcasting-doesn't the prize money include other sources also.

[Caversham Green]

Don't think it was just broadcasting-doesn't the prize money include other sources also.

Turnover is broken down into Gate receipts and hospitality £35.8m; Sponsorship and advertising £3.4m; Broadcasting rights £5.4m; Commercial £16.5m and Other operating income £3.2m. I don't know which of these categories the prize money would fall into, but I would think the broadcasting figure is purely TV and radio rights.

On looking at the Yams' accounts again though, I notice I picked up the wrong figure - their broadcasting figure was actually only £1.3m. I got Aberdeen's right at £3.8m, but in the previous year it was only £1.6m - presumably their run in Europe made the difference.

That actually gives a very different picture from the figures I quoted earlier...

[ancient hibee]

Turnover is broken down into Gate receipts and hospitality £35.8m; Sponsorship and advertising £3.4m; Broadcasting rights £5.4m; Commercial £16.5m and Other operating income £3.2m. I don't know which of these categories the prize money would fall into, but I would think the broadcasting figure is purely TV and radio rights.

On looking at the Yams' accounts again though, I notice I picked up the wrong figure - their broadcasting figure was actually only £1.3m. I got Aberdeen's right at £3.8m, but in the previous year it was only £1.6m - presumably their run in Europe made the difference.

That actually gives a very different picture from the figures I quoted earlier...
The Rangers broadcasting rights will include games outwith the SPL.

[Caversham Green]

The Rangers broadcasting rights will include games outwith the SPL.

:agree: It's the season they reached the Yoofah cup final as well, so I guess there's a fair whack from that. Their 2007 figure (not in the CL that year) was £5m, so still a lot higher than the other two.

It looks like Europe is where the big broadcasting income comes from though, rather than the SPL.

[ancient hibee]

:agree: It's the season they reached the Yoofah cup final as well, so I guess there's a fair whack from that. Their 2007 figure (not in the CL that year) was £5m, so still a lot higher than the other two.

It looks like Europe is where the big broadcasting income comes from though, rather than the SPL.
I think I read that if only one of the ugly sisters progresses in Europe they cop for all the CL media rights income for Scotland which is north of £10million.

[Phil D. Rolls]

[/B]

Im not having a go at the fans here, but what has happened to these fans, they turn out in numbers in the lower league to see the team get promotion the the big league but once in the big league the attendance drops.

Is it the price of games or is it because they know realistically there is no chance of the title?

I think it's the same at all clubs, you get the hard core who show up however the team is doing. You get another type of supporter who only goes if they think they are guaranteed a win.

It was quite annoying that season, as around a third of the support was fair weather fans. They don't seem to be able to handle the fact that you have to take the bad times with the good. They are also the type that love to pick on negative aspects of the performance, and offering the players advice about how to improve their game.

I think we were taking the same number of away fans as the OF that season. Other clubs should maybe think about the fact that having strong teams from the cities, challenging for titles, could well result in a comparable aggregate attendance to the OF.

On top of that, if their own team was also in with a shout in the game, their home support would be strong as well.