I Did No Wrong

[Phil D. Rolls]

What do you think about the old guy in the paper who used a rifle to scare away some youths. He thinks he has done nothing wrong. If he is right, should we all arm ourselves against the plooky wee hoodies, or is the use of rifles more suited to Dodge City, or deepest Afghanistan?

You - the gentleman at the back in the red sweater, no, no not you the gentleman beside you with the red sweater. Yes I know you both have red sweaters, but I can't say "Chav" on air.

[Woody1985]

Depending on the situation. I believe he felt threatened by young people at his house, is that accurate?

The law won't protect the old man. If someone broke into his house, and if caught, would end up with community service and a paltry fine. They'd have to offend multiple time and/or perform a serious crime before action is taken to stop them.

It's sad that he feels he needs this type of thing to feel safe in his own home but if it makes him feel better and he's not a senile old git going around shooting anyone for no reason then he can keep his gun and shoot anyone attacking him or his property. From what I recall it's not capable of firing anyway.

I support the farmer who shot the boy breaking into his farm.

I can see this thread is going to be fun. :greengrin

[Killiehibbie]

People should have the right to defend their property. I you can argue this will mean every housebreaker going out with guns, etc but if they think your maybe not such an easy target they tend to leave you alone.

[Betty Boop]

Sorry I don't agree. Do we really want to end up like America, one of the most violent countries in the world, due to the "right to bear arms" IMO. Yesterday a soldier on one of the largest military bases in the USA shot 42 of his comrades, with 13 deaths, and news is breaking of a further mass shooting in an office block in Orlando. I have every sympathy for the old guy, but to threaten somebody with a firearm is over the top.

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=2n&tag=watchnow

[Removed]

I've got some neighbours children (teens and 20's) I'd love to take a pot shot at. ********s with no respect for other peoples property deserve what they get. If I could get away with it I would.

It all started when we stopped the belt in schools.

[Jonnyboy]

I've got some neighbours children (teens and 20's) I'd love to take a pot shot at. ********s with no respect for other peoples property deserve what they get. If I could get away with it I would.

It all started when we stopped the belt in schools.

Rubbish.

It all started when we stopped sending the little buggers up chimneys :greengrin

On a serious note, I'm with Betty on this one as I don't want our streets turned into firing ranges.

As I understand it you can use reasonable force in instances like confronting a burglar in your house so the farmer got locked up cos he shot and killed a guy which, despite the temptation to say it is a reasonable use of force it isn't. What he should have done was shot the bugger in the knees - wouldn't have killed him but it would have slowed the ****er down :wink:

[sleeping giant]

I think if someone enters my home without an invite then i should be able to kill them to death:greengrin

Seriously though , if your family is threatened by strangers entering your home then ANY amount of force , reasonable or not , should be permitted to stop the intruder.

[Removed]

Rubbish.

It all started when we stopped sending the little buggers up chimneys :greengrin

On a serious note, I'm with Betty on this one as I don't want our streets turned into firing ranges.

As I understand it you can use reasonable force in instances like confronting a burglar in your house so the farmer got locked up cos he shot and killed a guy which, despite the temptation to say it is a reasonable use of force it isn't. What he should have done was shot the bugger in the knees - wouldn't have killed him but it would have slowed the ****er down :wink:


Forgot about that J, way before my time :greengrin

And didn't the farmer shoot the boy in the back so he was effectively running away which was probably main reason for him getting banged up.

I've been having running arguements with neighbours over 2 years or so since their older boys got cars :grr: Police have been round but unfortunately not much I can do. They have threatened me but until they actually do anything that can be proved we are the ones that have to suffer. There are times when if someone said to me they could have a quiet word for me I'd be tempted to say go ahead. I really can't see any short term solution so I understand why some people crack and take action that appears unreasonable but the stress can be quite extreme sometimes and I'm no some frail old boy.

[FranckSuzy]

Forgot about that J, way before my time :greengrin

And didn't the farmer shoot the boy in the back so he was effectively running away which was probably main reason for him getting banged up.

I've been having running arguements with neighbours over 2 years or so since their older boys got cars :grr: Police have been round but unfortunately not much I can do. They have threatened me but until they actually do anything that can be proved we are the ones that have to suffer. There are times when if someone said to me they could have a quiet word for me I'd be tempted to say go ahead. I really can't see any short term solution so I understand why some people crack and take action that appears unreasonable but the stress can be quite extreme sometimes and I'm no some frail old boy.

I totally understand where you're coming from here. I've had over 9 years of misery due to my downstairs neighbour. The only saving grace is that now he is suspected of being a paedophile (?!) the police and council are a bit more interested in getting involved. I really sympathise when people 'crack' and things become violent as I have nearly lost it myself and thought about going down with a hammer or such like. The ****er intimidates the wee old ladies (all widows) who live by me also and it keeps me sane thinking I am standing up for them as well as myself. I would LOVE someone to have a word but completely believe in the old adage 'give someone enough rope and they will hang themselves'. Good luck.

[Hibbyradge]

2 people tried to break into my house last night. Smashed my patio window, but didn't gain access. £100 excess though. :grr:

My wife is scared to go to bed tonight, and you know what, I'm uneasy too.

I don't own a gun and would never want one, but right now, my values are being challenged.

Life isn't black and white.

[Phil D. Rolls]

The problem I have about having a weapon in the house is that the miscreant can grab it off you and use it against you. What's the legal/moral position then?

You have said that in a situation of conflict violence is acceptable. You fly with the crows, you get shot with the crows (ouch).

[Woody1985]

I totally understand where you're coming from here. I've had over 9 years of misery due to my downstairs neighbour. The only saving grace is that now he is suspected of being a paedophile (?!) the police and council are a bit more interested in getting involved. I really sympathise when people 'crack' and things become violent as I have nearly lost it myself and thought about going down with a hammer or such like. The ****er intimidates the wee old ladies (all widows) who live by me also and it keeps me sane thinking I am standing up for them as well as myself. I would LOVE someone to have a word but completely believe in the old adage 'give someone enough rope and they will hang themselves'. Good luck.

The world doesn't work like that. Sounds too much like karma which is a myth IMO.

[Woody1985]

2 people tried to break into my house last night. Smashed my patio window, but didn't gain access. £100 excess though. :grr:

My wife is scared to go to bed tonight, and you know what, I'm uneasy too.

I don't own a gun and would never want one, but right now, my values are being challenged.

Life isn't black and white.

Sorry to hear that HR.

If anyone tried to get in my house I would do anthing, I mean anything, to protect my family and I. No question about it.



The problem I have about having a weapon in the house is that the miscreant can grab it off you and use it against you. What's the legal/moral position then?

You have said that in a situation of conflict violence is acceptable. You fly with the crows, you get shot with the crows (ouch).

FR, they could get it off you but most people would do anythin for their family and anythin to defend themselves and I respect that 100%.

[FranckSuzy]

The world doesn't work like that. Sounds too much like karma which is a myth IMO.

Surely if someone is repeatedly doing something criminal then it is not about karma if they get caught, it's about them becoming so complacent that they slip up i.e 'giving them enough rope'. The guys stooping lower and lower so for my sanity I have to hope that he'll be caught eventually.

[ArabHibee]

The world doesn't work like that. Sounds too much like karma which is a myth IMO.

Have to disagree. The saying "What goes around, comes around" is definitely true.

[Dinkydoo]

In a state of panic (caused by an unwaned visitor in my house) I think that I would be prepared to do anything to protect my family.

If someone is in your house and up to no good and end up confronting you you take any opportunity to chase them away, I.E: use whatever you can but try and not kill them.

Then again, if someone broke into my house with a weapon it's a different story imo. Kill or be killed - unless you can stay out of their way (obviously).

Criminals are protected far too much for my liking.

[Peevemor]

Is it not the case that the vast majority of shootings in the USA are carried out with stolen weapons?

Although I'm anti-gun, I would use any means at my disposal to protect my family if the need arose.

[Green Mikey]

Have to disagree. The saying "What goes around, comes around" is definitely true.

Really? How do you know that?

Back to the OP. I think that using reasonable force is acceptable but to kill someone is going to far. If someone broke into my house and were trying to steal my TV, I don't think that crime justifies death...

[Jack]

Is it not the case that the vast majority of shootings in the USA are carried out with stolen weapons?
Although I'm anti-gun, I would use any means at my disposal to protect my family if the need arose.

Not sure about that Peevemor, I think weapons (guns) are so easy to come by in the States it would make little difference. Interestingly though I read just last week that although the sale of weapons and ammunition in the Sates has increased during the recession the amount of crime involving fire arms has decreased – still I wouldn’t want to bet my life on the difference.

As for the original story – the old mans a nutter and should be dealt with accordingly. If the nutter was a 23 year old with a gun (or even just a table leg) he’d likely be taken out by a police marksman. You canny have folk brandishing weapons (or table legs) willy nilly on the flimsiest of excuses – where would it end?

I do think however that a very small number of miscreants are making life a bloody misery for too may people and F this 'let convicted criminals off jail for ‘minor’ offences' – build more jails! At least when they're inside they are not bothering decent folk.

[Peevemor]

[FONT=Verdana]Not sure about that [COLOR=black]Peevemor, I think weapons (guns) are so easy to come by in the States it would make little difference. Interestingly though I read just last week that although the sale of weapons and ammunition in the Sates has increased during the recession the amount of crime involving fire arms has decreased – still I wouldn’t want to bet my life on the difference.

I'm not 100% certain either to be honest, it's just something that I remember seeing that stuck in my mind, ie. that the pro gun lobby who demand the right to protect themselves effectively have to protect themselves from their own weapons which have either been stolen or turned against them.

[Hibrandenburg]

I would have no qualms at all about killing someone if they intended to hurt my family. Everybody has the right to defend themselves, it's how you prepare yourself to do so that can be a grey area.

[heretoday]

There was an interesting piece on the radio today. A reporter from the Baltimore Sun spent a night riding around with the police in Moss Side estate, Manchester and a guy from the Manchester paper went to a large Baltimore estate to do the same.

There was little happening in Moss Side but homicides and violence galore in Baltimore where the estate had burned out buildings and open drug markets on street corners.

The American reckoned we've got it not too bad here. Of course that's no comfort if you're stuck next to the family from hell. I know what that's like.

[ArabHibee]

Really? How do you know that?

Back to the OP. I think that using reasonable force is acceptable but to kill someone is going to far. If someone broke into my house and were trying to steal my TV, I don't think that crime justifies death...

Because I'm female.:rolleyes:

[sleeping giant]

Really? How do you know that?

Back to the OP. I think that using reasonable force is acceptable but to kill someone is going to far. If someone broke into my house and were trying to steal my TV, I don't think that crime justifies death...


Would you quietly sneak back to bed and let them get on with it or would you challenge them ?

If you challenge them , the situation would change from being about the "telly" to being about survival.
If someone has broken into my house and i catch them in the act , the last thing i would be thinking about was giving them a chance to leave quietly.

[Phil D. Rolls]

The law gives you a defence in these cases if you use reasonable force. I dont think the use of guns is ever reasonable force in the UK.

I reckon theres a few folks been watching too many Charles Bronson and John Wayne films. There are alternatives to guns.

[Woody1985]

The law gives you a defence in these cases if you use reasonable force. I dont think the use of guns is ever reasonable force in the UK.

I reckon theres a few folks been watching too many Charles Bronson and John Wayne films. There are alternatives to guns.

If people are desperate enough to break into your house then they'll be desperate enough to attack you to get away.

If someone enters your house you don't 100% know their motives, what they're capable of and what they may be carrying. Deserve what they get IMO.

One of my mates brothers is a serial burglar, he's been in the jail multiple times, had some funny kickings both inside and out and he doesn't give a ****. He still goes out and does it time after time. His brother barely talks to him now the boy will never learn. He's an out and out ****bag and deserves what he gets.

The law is inadequate IMO. The law assumes that you have the ability to inflict reasonable force on someone entering your home. An old frail man/woman, people who can't even attempt to fight etc etc effectively have no protection without using a weapon of some sort.

P.S that Bronson film is the biggest load of ***** I've ever seen.

[Green Mikey]

Would you quietly sneak back to bed and let them get on with it or would you challenge them ?

If you challenge them , the situation would change from being about the "telly" to being about survival.
If someone has broken into my house and i catch them in the act , the last thing i would be thinking about was giving them a chance to leave quietly.

You didn't understand my point.

I said that killing someone is excessive punishment for breaking into your house. Could you kill someone if you caught them breaking into your house?

---------- Post added at 12:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:53 PM ----------


Because I'm female.:rolleyes:

The level of debate on here seems to have slipped.....

[sleeping giant]

You didn't understand my point.

I said that killing someone is excessive punishment for breaking into your house. Could you kill someone if you caught them breaking into your house?

---------- Post added at 12:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:53 PM ----------



The level of debate on here seems to have slipped.....

I wouldnt go out my way to try to kill the person but i think whether they lived or not would be the last thing on my mind while protecting my family.

It doesnt matter if they broke in to have a biscuit !

[Badger0762]

Sorry I don't agree. Do we really want to end up like America, one of the most violent countries in the world, due to the "right to bear arms" IMO. Yesterday a soldier on one of the largest military bases in the USA shot 42 of his comrades, with 13 deaths, and news is breaking of a further mass shooting in an office block in Orlando. I have every sympathy for the old guy, but to threaten somebody with a firearm is over the top.

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=2n&tag=watchnow

I live over in the States presently and the gun culture that exists over here is pretty frightening. Incident at my daughter's schoool last week - a 12 year old boy and his mate thought it was a good idea to take a loaded .22 into school. Walked about with it down the front of his jeans, safety off until someone reported him and the police came and arrested him. To say we were in shock would be an understatement. We are not in a bad or inner city area but most people treated this with apathy and very little surprise. The gun culture over here scares the s**t out of me.
The argument that keeps getting thrown back at us is that it is their right from the Constitution. That was written in a time where there was some sort of need - it's dated and "the right to bear arms" is no longer relevant in this day and age.
The funny thing was when we first arrived over here 5 years ago was that my wife went out to get a bottle of vodka at Xmas time. The local stores don't sell it and only "specialist" stores are allowed to stock and sell - closed. However we could go into a Walmart and buy a gun but they are not allowed to sell "hard" alcohol. Easier to get a gun than a bottle of vodka - go figure.
Speeding up our return from here.

[FranckSuzy]

Have to disagree. The saying "What goes around, comes around" is definitely true.

Are you psychic? The erse downstairs from me got broken into the other night :wink: I ignored the noise as it sounded the same as the usual rammy from his house. Shame :cool2:



Disclaimer: It wasn't me and I have an alibi :rolleyes:

[ArabHibee]

The level of debate on here seems to have slipped.....

Oi! Watch it! :grr:


Are you psychic? The erse downstairs from me got broken into the other night :wink: I ignored the noise as it sounded the same as the usual rammy from his house. Shame :cool2:



Disclaimer: It wasn't me and I have an alibi :rolleyes:


:whistle: Aye, you were at the Proclaimers concert with me. :wink:

[FranckSuzy]

Have to disagree. The saying "What goes around, comes around" is definitely true.


Oi! Watch it! :grr:




:whistle: Aye, you were at the Proclaimers concert with me. :wink:

And it was magic :thumbsup:

[Ed De Gramo]

The problem is that the Neds love confrontation...

The old man is quite right to defend himself by whatever means.

Society is that ****ed up that in some areas of Edinburgh the Neds run it.

Police do nowt...however if you told them that your confronting them with a weapon, they would be all over the scene with SWAT teams and police dogs...:bitchy:

Bring back the belt at school :agree:

[Killiehibbie]

The problem is that the Neds love confrontation...

The old man is quite right to defend himself by whatever means.

Society is that ****ed up that in some areas of Edinburgh the Neds run it.

Police do nowt...however if you told them that your confronting them with a weapon, they would be all over the scene with SWAT teams and police dogs...:bitchy:

Bring back the belt at school :agree:

They only love confrontations they can win. Once they get a couple of doings they move on.

[Phil D. Rolls]

The problem is that the Neds love confrontation...

The old man is quite right to defend himself by whatever means.

Society is that ****ed up that in some areas of Edinburgh the Neds run it.

Police do nowt...however if you told them that your confronting them with a weapon, they would be all over the scene with SWAT teams and police dogs...:bitchy:

Bring back the belt at school :agree:

It was different in your day, eh? :rolleyes: They never had juvenile delinquency when you could thrash a child just because they couldn't count or spell.

[Rossco1875]

what happend to the days people used to respect their elder :confused:

If this is what its come to for this old man to feel safe its out of order and he will be the one to suffer at the end of it as he will be the one delt with by the law for protecting himself with a fire arm as he feels he needs to, not the young neds who have got nothing better to do than harass and OAP.

[ArabHibee]

what happend to the days people used to respect their elder :confused:

If this is what its come to for this old man to feel safe its out of order and he will be the one to suffer at the end of it as he will be the one delt with by the law for protecting himself with a fire arm as he feels he needs to, not the young neds who have got nothing better to do than harass and OAP.

If what Filled Rolls says was true (:bitchy:), you'd have had 6 of the best for your spelling and punctuation!! :cool2:

[Phil D. Rolls]

If what Filled Rolls says was true (:bitchy:), you'd have had 6 of the best for your spelling and punctuation!! :cool2:

Sorry, but it is true. Some of those ********s should never have been near developing human beings, let alone allowed to physically chastise them. I once saw a guy get nine of the belt for laughing at a teacher.

Most people my age will tell you similair stories. Things usually change for a reason.

Anyway, all my life people have talked about the old days. We had suede heads, before that it was skin heads, and before that Teddy Boys. Read "No Mean City" or "Brighton Rock" and you're back to the 30s.

[heretoday]

We don't do revenge in Britain.

What we do is shake our heads sadly and clear up the mess left by those in our society who are ignorant, selfish and think they can just do what they damn well like.

And we hope that one day they will see sense.

[Killiehibbie]

We don't do revenge in Britain.

What we do is shake our heads sadly and clear up the mess left by those in our society who are ignorant, selfish and think they can just do what they damn well like.

And we hope that one day they will see sense.

You not seen Harry Brown yet?:greengrin

[Hibrandenburg]

what happend to the days people used to respect their elder :confused:

If this is what its come to for this old man to feel safe its out of order and he will be the one to suffer at the end of it as he will be the one delt with by the law for protecting himself with a fire arm as he feels he needs to, not the young neds who have got nothing better to do than harass and OAP.

The problem as I see it is that everyone has rights but hardly anyone responsibilites.