Inverted Snobbery

[Phil D. Rolls]

Anyone ever been the victim of inerveted snobbery? Maybe you're an inverted snob yourself - proud of your background and dismissive of anyone who appears wealthier or smarter than you.

I find social clubs are a good place to encounter IS. For example, if you say you think the turn is cheesey and crass, you get a whole lot of "ooh not good enough for the likes of you" stuff. Explaining that you prefer other types of music than "pop" is likely to have them wanting to lynch you. What's that about? Is it people with low self esteem being frightened to be out of line, or is it just a defence of community values?

Anybody care to share their experiences?

[steakbake]

I once got funny looks walking past Greggs and eating a Goodfellow and Stephens pastry. I mean, I'm sorry that I don't like cheddar and onion "bakes", but I'd rather have a roquette and brie phyllo pasty.

It's one rule for the hoi polloi and another for everyone else.

[Phil D. Rolls]

I once got funny looks walking past Greggs and eating a Goodfellow and Stephens pastry. I mean, I'm sorry that I don't like cheddar and onion "bakes", but I'd rather have a roquette and brie phyllo pasty.

It's one rule for the hoi polloi and another for everyone else.

G&S sell those? I've been looking everywhere.

[RyeSloan]

Anyone ever been the victim of inerveted snobbery? Maybe you're an inverted snob yourself - proud of your background and dismissive of anyone who appears wealthier or smarter than you.

I find social clubs are a good place to encounter IS. For example, if you say you think the turn is cheesey and crass, you get a whole lot of "ooh not good enough for the likes of you" stuff. Explaining that you prefer other types of music than "pop" is likely to have them wanting to lynch you. What's that about? Is it people with low self esteem being frightened to be out of line, or is it just a defence of community values?

Anybody care to share their experiences?


There is a whole undercurrent of this in Scotland I think. For some reason this country seems to think the words profit and wealthy are filthy and an attack on the 'working man'.

Seems to me that the wealthier and smarter you become our society in general and recently the media and political parties seem ever more keen to blame for the countires woes.

[BravestHibs]

When the festival was on I was in the pleasance courtyard having a drink and, as is the norm, every 5 minutes you got people coming round handing flyers out. Each one seemed to be from the home counties with one of these non descript english accents. Now, I don't know why, but everytime I heard one of them speak I would get annoyed. I could feel it happening and no matter how hard I tried I couldn't work out what it was that annoyed me but it did, whatever it was. I think it was just that home counties accent that wound me up, but I have no idea why?

P.S This may sound like I'm anti English but I'm not.

[LiverpoolHibs]

It's just a pointless, reductive and retrogressive substitution for genuine progressive class consciousness, innit.

If one was being a ponce one might even suggest that it's encouraged as an outlet for such feelings without it creating any actual challenge to the status quo.

[NYHibby]

Most of the posts in the anti-students/education threads are an example of this.

[Phil D. Rolls]

When the festival was on I was in the pleasance courtyard having a drink and, as is the norm, every 5 minutes you got people coming round handing flyers out. Each one seemed to be from the home counties with one of these non descript english accents. Now, I don't know why, but everytime I heard one of them speak I would get annoyed. I could feel it happening and no matter how hard I tried I couldn't work out what it was that annoyed me but it did, whatever it was. I think it was just that home counties accent that wound me up, but I have no idea why?

P.S This may sound like I'm anti English but I'm not.

I don't like those people because they take over our city and then talk like we are the visitors. I went to a show called "One of oor ain", the girl taking tickets asked me if I was there to see "One of Our Own". She was none too happy when I told her it wasn't called that.

Christopher Brookmyre once wrote "the English destroy cultures by pretending they dont exist". Those nonentities that come up to hand out flyers sum that up.

The last laugh is on them though, as the real stars cant stand them. I realised it had nothing to do with inverted snobbery on my part when I saw the contempt that real actors treated these wannabies in the bar at the Old Vic. Pretentious, moi

[Sylar]

It starts at childhood really - you get mocked for being intelligent and branded a "geek" or a "nerd".

Inverted snobbery (nice term FR) is merely a projection of less educated/wealthy classes inadequacies, through an attack on someone who has dared to try and elevate themselves.

Success breeds hatred for some reason - wonder if there's a correlation between hatred of large sports teams and their successes?

[Phil D. Rolls]

It starts at childhood really - you get mocked for being intelligent and branded a "geek" or a "nerd".

Inverted snobbery (nice term FR) is merely a projection of less educated/wealthy classes inadequacies, through an attack on someone who has dared to try and elevate themselves.

Success breeds hatred for some reason - wonder if there's a correlation between hatred of large sports teams and their successes?

Wish I'd invented it, don't know where it started unfortunately.

[ancient hibee]

I don't like those people because they take over our city and then talk like we are the visitors. I went to a show called "One of oor ain", the girl taking tickets asked me if I was there to see "One of Our Own". She was none too happy when I told her it wasn't called that.

Christopher Brookmyre once wrote "the English destroy cultures by pretending they dont exist". Those nonentities that come up to hand out flyers sum that up.

The last laugh is on them though, as the real stars cant stand them. I realised it had nothing to do with inverted snobbery on my part when I saw the contempt that real actors treated these wannabies in the bar at the Old Vic. Pretentious, moi
A wonderful example of inverted snobbery.Glad to see that irony has not yet disappeared from this site.

[Phil D. Rolls]

A wonderful example of inverted snobbery.Glad to see that irony has not yet disappeared from this site.

Glad someone is payimg attention.

[Mixu62]

The last laugh is on them though, as the real stars cant stand them. I realised it had nothing to do with inverted snobbery on my part when I saw the contempt that real actors treated these wannabies in the bar at the Old Vic. Pretentious, moi[/QUOTE]


And some people think it's pretentious to mix French into an English sentence, but I say Au contraire.

For my part it's been a real education movnig to NZ, a place where, for example you can go to a bar and have wine without being considered a "ponce", and people show and interest in, and knowledge of good food and wine. There seems to be an in-built confidence in people over here that we Scots could learn a lot from.

[ArabHibee]

I once got funny looks walking past Greggs and eating a Goodfellow and Stephens pastry. I mean, I'm sorry that I don't like cheddar and onion "bakes", but I'd rather have a roquette and brie phyllo pasty.

It's one rule for the hoi polloi and another for everyone else.
:thumbsup:

[steakbake]

Most of the posts in the anti-students/education threads are an example of this.

Could that also be a form of anti-intellectualism which is also a problem with our modern society?

I find it hard to define what inverted snobbery actually is but I knows it when I sees it.

[Dashing Bob S]

There is a whole undercurrent of this in Scotland I think. For some reason this country seems to think the words profit and wealthy are filthy and an attack on the 'working man'.

Seems to me that the wealthier and smarter you become our society in general and recently the media and political parties seem ever more keen to blame for the countires woes.

Yes, once again the rich, white man gets a raw deal. I blame the chavs and neds.

[LiverpoolHibs]

It starts at childhood really - you get mocked for being intelligent and branded a "geek" or a "nerd".

Inverted snobbery (nice term FR) is merely a projection of less educated/wealthy classes inadequacies, through an attack on someone who has dared to try and elevate themselves.

Success breeds hatred for some reason - wonder if there's a correlation between hatred of large sports teams and their successes?

Yikes...

[Sylar]

Yikes...

Why yikes?

It's a presumptious statement, granted, but is it really innaccurate?

Why else does such a "snobbery" exist, unless it is fuelled by jealousy or ignorance?

[Peevemor]

I remember a piece that John Gibson wrote in his EEN column not long after Waldo had sold Hearts. He spoke of a lunch they'd had together and how, when offered the choice, Waldo had asked for tap water to drink stating that was good enough for him. Gibson then went on to recount (yet) another lunch whre David Murray had shown himself to be infinitely more classy as he'd chosen sparkling mineral water.

Since that day, I've tried to work out whether Waldo was guilty of inverted snobbery or if John Gibson's just a w**k. :dunno:

---------- Post added at 11:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:26 PM ----------


Why yikes?

It's a presumptious statement, granted, but is it really innaccurate?

Why else does such a "snobbery" exist, unless it is fuelled by jealousy or ignorance?

That's all there is to it IMHO.

[steakbake]

Society is organised in a totally different way to the way we were even 20 years ago. I always think that people who hammer on these days about the "working class", the "upper class", the "middle class" etc just seem to be stuck in some 1970s timewarp and haven't moved on and seen what life is like now.

I think that inverted snobbery is complicated and probably comes from a notion from person A that person B appears to have a sense of their self and identity which differs from what person A estimates person B should have if they are to have any commonality and therefore shared ground.

These apparent differences might be assumptions based on accent, location, material preferences and tastes through to less tangible or obvious things like belief, education, ideas. Where the notion of difference is driven from is also complex. From some, its simply an opinion formed of another person's perceived characteristics in relation to our own using a scale of our own individual prejudices and values.

Perhaps we all have such an unspoken scale/hierarchy by which we judge people which has been formed through our experience of life and other people and how we feel our interaction with them has impacted upon us, for good for for bad? Maybe it's informed by what we place value in, in terms of commonality with other people. Value can be placed in tangible or very untangible things, from where someone is from to how they speak, to what they say, to what we think that they think and so on.

I think humans are tribal in nature, but our innate tribal nature is severely challenged and tested by a world where tribal differences are not necessarily physically apparent and therefore obvious anymore. Maybe we discriminate through much more subtle ways.

Instead of a tribalism based on physical and locational similarity (which we would have shared in the past) we have developed a preference and aspiration towards wanting to feel the security and importantly, the validation of feeling like we are a member of a tribe with other people whose attitudes and tastes are what we consider to be similar to or complimentary to our own.

Whether these tribes actually exist as cohesive units, is a totally different discussion. I would say they don't exist and they are illusory to make us confirm our beliefs, choices and assumed identities and therefore validate them which provides us with security in our self.

:dizzy: bring back the calendar signing thread.

[LiverpoolHibs]

Why yikes?

It's a presumptious statement, granted, but is it really innaccurate?

Why else does such a "snobbery" exist, unless it is fuelled by jealousy or ignorance?

'Yikes' because that was a pretty monumentally awful thing to say in a number of ways.

Just because it's called 'inverted/reverse snobbery' doesn't mean it operates in the same way as 'normal snobbery'. It's just a fairly understandable (though, as I've said ultimately pointless) backlash from a position of weakness rather than from a position of power and 'superiority'.

The implication, of course, of a statement such as, "a projection of less educated/wealthy classes inadequacies [yikes, yikes and thrice yikes], through an attack on someone who has dared to try and elevate themselves." is that everyone is apparently capable of 'elevating' themselves and "it's their own bally fault if they're poor, uneducated and dirty!"

And furthermore, 'elevating' to what?

[Twa Cairpets]

'Yikes' because that was a pretty monumentally awful thing to say in a number of ways.

Just because it's called 'inverted/reverse snobbery' doesn't mean it operates in the same way as 'normal snobbery'. It's just a fairly understandable (though, as I've said ultimately pointless) backlash from a position of weakness rather than from a position of power and 'superiority'.

The implication, of course, of a statement such as, "a projection of less educated/wealthy classes inadequacies [yikes, yikes and thrice yikes], through an attack on someone who has dared to try and elevate themselves." is that everyone is apparently capable of 'elevating' themselves and "it's their own bally fault if they're poor, uneducated and dirty!"

And furthermore, 'elevating' to what?

Liverpool, if youre solely focussing on the topic of "inverted snobbery", then those who are guilty of it do tend to be those who glorify stupidity, take pride in ignorance and dont see any benefit in improvement.

Your extension of the argument to "...is that everyone is apparently capable of 'elevating' themselves and "it's their own bally fault if they're poor, uneducated and dirty!..." is to argue against a point that wasnt being made, and certainly wasnt what I thought was being said, implicitly or otherwise.

[matty_f]

'Yikes' because that was a pretty monumentally awful thing to say in a number of ways.

Just because it's called 'inverted/reverse snobbery' doesn't mean it operates in the same way as 'normal snobbery'. It's just a fairly understandable (though, as I've said ultimately pointless) backlash from a position of weakness rather than from a position of power and 'superiority'.

The implication, of course, of a statement such as, "a projection of less educated/wealthy classes inadequacies [yikes, yikes and thrice yikes], through an attack on someone who has dared to try and elevate themselves." is that everyone is apparently capable of 'elevating' themselves and "it's their own bally fault if they're poor, uneducated and dirty!"

And furthermore, 'elevating' to what?


Would it not be an elevation to a wealthier status (and by wealth, I don't necessarily mean in monetary terms.)

IMHO, most people are capable of elevating themselves if they decide to., and while I wouldn't be so crass as to say anyone who didn't 'elevate' themselves were to blame for their status, I would say that at some point in their lives they'll have to take responsibility for the decisions they make that effect their standing in life.

[LiverpoolHibs]

Liverpool, if youre solely focussing on the topic of "inverted snobbery", then those who are guilty of it do tend to be those who glorify stupidity, take pride in ignorance and dont see any benefit in improvement.

Let's not get ridiculous. It isn't, in any way, a glorification of those things. As I've said it presumably acts as a modicum of comfort in a society that has left you on the 'bottom rung'.

It really isn't anything for anyone to get up in arms about. It'd probaby be more worthwhile to be exercised about a society and system which creates such conditions rather than an incredibly small-scale backlash.


Your extension of the argument to "...is that everyone is apparently capable of 'elevating' themselves and "it's their own bally fault if they're poor, uneducated and dirty!..." is to argue against a point that wasnt being made, and certainly wasnt what I thought was being said, implicitly or otherwise.

Yes it was. How else could that possibly be read?

And you replied to the questions on the Afghanistan thread. :wink:

[Twa Cairpets]

Let's not get ridiculous. It isn't, in any way, a glorification of those things. As I've said it presumably acts as a modicum of comfort in a society that has left you on the 'bottom rung'.It really isn't anything for anyone to get up in arms about. It'd probaby be more worthwhile to be exercised about a society and system which creates such conditions rather than an incredibly small-scale backlash.



Doesnt mean its acceptable though. I think it can be quite a bullying and restricting thing, making people feel guilty about being good at something or wanting to do something that might be perceived as "improvement".

[Dinkydoo]

Yes,

I've been described as stuck up before simply because I disagreed with someone at school about smoking whilst pregnant. He then went onto state that his Grilfriend doesn't actually smoke any tobacco when she was pregnant, she only has a bong now and again! Yea, because thats so much better :confused:

"Aw but theres nae bacci in it so whit the problem" :blah:

I was then told that I didn't have a clue what I was on about half the time, I used big words to try and convey myself (well he didn't use the word convey) as this super intelligent person........


I actually bumped into the guy recently and I asked what he was upto. Aw not much cany get a job. I said why don't you try in tescos, there always looking for people. I said look at me, I never went to college or uni and I'm on a decent wage and work for the Health Board. The reply I got was, nah but your clever - naw mate, I just tried my hardest not to become another waste of space in a town full of them.

Silly bollocks :rolleyes:

[Woody1985]

Yes,

I've been described as stuck up before simply because I disagreed with someone at school about smoking whilst pregnant. He then went onto state that his Grilfriend doesn't actually smoke any tobacco when she was pregnant, she only has a bong now and again! Yea, because thats so much better :confused:

"Aw but theres nae bacci in it so whit the problem" :blah:

I was then told that I didn't have a clue what I was on about half the time, I used big words to try and convey myself (well he didn't use the word convey) as this super intelligent person........


I actually bumped into the guy recently and I asked what he was upto. Aw not much cany get a job. I said why don't you try in tescos, there always looking for people. I said look at me, I never went to college or uni and I'm on a decent wage and work for the Health Board. The reply I got was, nah but your clever - naw mate, I just tried my hardest not to become another waste of space in a town full of them.

Silly bollocks :rolleyes:

I used to get that and sometimes still do when out with people from Gilmerton. Because of my job they think your some kind of swotty ****.

A boy I know, a window cleaner, said something in front of about 7 people one day and I came back with 'at least I'm no going around licking windaes all day'. :faf:

He wasn't too impressed. Prick.

[Phil D. Rolls]

http://www.ibras.dk/montypython/episode02.htm#8

Cut to sitting room straight out of D. H. Lawrence. Mum, wiping her hand on her apron is ushering in a young man in a suit. They are a Northern couple.
Mum Oh dad... look who's come to see us... it's our Ken.
Dad (without looking up) Aye, and about bloody time if you ask me.
Ken Aren't you pleased to see me, father?
Mum (squeezing his arm reassuringly) Of course he's pleased to see you, Ken, he...
Dad All right, woman, all right I've got a tongue in my head - I'll do 'talkin'. (looks at Ken distastefully) Aye ... I like yer fancy suit. Is that what they're wearing up in Yorkshire now?
Ken It's just an ordinary suit, father... it's all I've got apart from the overalls.
Dad turns away with an expression of scornful disgust.
Mum How are you liking it down the mine, Ken?
Ken Oh it's not too bad, mum... we're using some new tungsten carbide drills for the preliminary coal-face scouring operations.
Mum Oh that sounds nice, dear...
Dad Tungsten carbide drills! What the bloody hell's tungsten carbide drills?
Ken It's something they use in coal-mining, father.
Dad (mimicking) 'It's something they use in coal-mining, father'. You're all bloody fancy talk since you left London.
Ken Oh not that again.
Mum He's had a hard day dear... his new play opens at the National Theatre tomorrow.
Ken Oh that's good.
Dad Good! good? What do you know about it? What do you know about getting up at five o'clock in t'morning to fly to Paris... back at the Old Vic for drinks at twelve, sweating the day through press interviews, television interviews and getting back here at ten to wrestle with the problem of a homosexual nymphomaniac drug-addict involved in the ritual murder of a well known Scottish footballer. That's a full working day, lad, and don't you forget it!
Mum Oh, don't shout at the boy, father.
Dad Aye, 'ampstead wasn't good enough for you, was it? ... you had to go poncing off to Barnsley, you and yer coal-mining friends. (spits)

[ancient hibee]

http://www.ibras.dk/montypython/episode02.htm#8
A classic.

Personally I prefer ordinary snobbery but I will not look down on all you oiks just because I am inherently superior.

Incidentally if the response times on this site get any slower I will be delivering my carefully chosen bon mots by carrier pigeon.

[Dashing Bob S]

From the tarmac drive of my caravan in Merchiston, I'm able to look down on the Gorgie hordes in their bungalows and BMW's. Now that's real inverted snobbery for you..

[Phil D. Rolls]

I've got a few examples now:

Calling for a private hire car instead of a black cab becaus you don't want to look posh.

Wearing clothing that identifies you as working class, even though you look a twat in it at your age (Burberry, Lyle and Scott, slipper trainers, baseball hats).

Refusing to drink real ale.

Swearing when there is no need just to show you are part of a particular set.


At the end of the day it's just snobbery, an attempt to identify yourself with a bigger group for your own safety and exclude others in case they displace you.

Snobbery is usually based on having more wealth than the victim. Many inverted snobs though are wealthy themselves, but choose to pretend that it hasn't changed them.

[Betty Boop]

I've got a few examples now:

Calling for a private hire car instead of a black cab becaus you don't want to look posh.

Wearing clothing that identifies you as working class, even though you look a twat in it at your age (Burberry, Lyle and Scott, slipper trainers, baseball hats).

Refusing to drink real ale.

Swearing when there is no need just to show you are part of a particular set.


At the end of the day it's just snobbery, an attempt to identify yourself with a bigger group for your own safety and exclude others in case they displace you.

Snobbery is usually based on having more wealth than the victim. Many inverted snobs though are wealthy themselves, but choose to pretend that it hasn't changed them.

Do people not call for private hire cabs because they are cheaper? :greengrin

[Phil D. Rolls]

Do people not call for private hire cabs because they are cheaper? :greengrin

Naw, a common misconception - they know fine that they are on the same meter. It would just attract the wrong sort of comments from their mates if they showed up at the club in a black cab.

Who knows, it might even have fatal consequences for the more concrete thinkers - seeing their mate (soon to be ex-mate) breaking with tradition.