'support the postal workers'...WHY!?

[hibsfan]

Why on earth were there people with buckets outside the ground yesterday shaking buckets of cash for the postal workers?! And more to the point, why where people giving them money!?

Think I could do with some cash.... might take a bucket down myself next weekend!

I understand these people striking if they feel hard done by, but dont expect us to pay for the time off!

[CropleyWasGod]

1. they are allowed. Freedom of expression and all that.

2. people are allowed to donate, or not. Freedom of choice.

Did you/anyone exercise your own right to free expression by challenging them?

[sadtom]

Football crowds are still predominantly working class. Nothing wrong with the posties looking to ordinary people for support. Its a difficult time for them to be taking strike action (no-one wants to be on strike and only a mug or boss's lacky would tell you otherwise) and workers will need solidarity from other workers. If you dont want to support them thats your choice. Equally it would be my choice to tell you to ***** right off!
Victory to the posties!

As a former union rep in the cwu (or ucw as it was then.)
I have first hand experiance of how deliberately provocative the royal mail managemnet are. You would make an agreement with them, they would be all smiles and reason. Within an hour of the agreement being made and you telling the membership, they would then break it.
The management use double speak and their allies in the press to spread lies while deliberately causing grief.

It is worth noting that in the last 25 years the vast majority of strike action taken by posties has not been about their wages and personal gain. It has been about preserving the service the public receive and their own conditions and terms that are already AGREED!
So the next time you or anyone you hear moaning about the postal service you can give them the correct information that it is those poor men and women that are going without, in order to try and protect YOUR public service.
Spare them a few quid if you can.

[MUSSI LEE]

i never seen this however who doees the money go to.not in my pocket i guess :grr:left with 40.oo in wages this week after i gave the wife money.thats what comes with supporting the union i guess :dummytit:

[Jay]

i never seen this however who doees the money go to.not in my pocket i guess :grr:left with 40.oo in wages this week after i gave the wife money.thats what comes with supporting the union i guess :dummytit:

When I was on strike many years ago any money collected went into a hardship fund that we could apply for. It was mainly for the families - husbands and wives both striking etc. I would guess it would be put towards something like this?

[Lofarl]

No idea about this. You sure this was not a scam? I was at the game yesterday and never saw these people. I work in Bathgate as a postie an can tell you we aint doing a whipround for funds.

[sadtom]

When I was on strike many years ago any money collected went into a hardship fund that we could apply for. It was mainly for the families - husbands and wives both striking etc. I would guess it would be put towards something like this?

:agree:

Yep.
While the strike action is not 'all out' the workers will prob have to go without , unfortunately. If it goes on for weeks on end or becomes all out then small hand outs for 'picket duty' may occur or assistance may be given if applied for. The sums taken in wouldn't go very far if they were divvied up and handed out as soon as they were taken in.

[archiebald]

You dont have to support them,you can still go to work didnt you get your letter.As you should know this is not about money this is long term job safety and you as an individual had a vote as did your work place

[Beefster]

Football crowds are still predominantly working class. Nothing wrong with the posties looking to ordinary people for support. Its a difficult time for them to be taking strike action (no-one wants to be on strike and only a mug or boss's lacky would tell you otherwise) and workers will need solidarity from other workers. If you dont want to support them thats your choice. Equally it would be my choice to tell you to ***** right off!
Victory to the posties!

As a former union rep in the cwu (or ucw as it was then.)
I have first hand experiance of how deliberately provocative the royal mail managemnet are. You would make an agreement with them, they would be all smiles and reason. Within an hour of the agreement being made and you telling the membership, they would then break it.
The management use double speak and their allies in the press to spread lies while deliberately causing grief.

It is worth noting that in the last 25 years the vast majority of strike action taken by posties has not been about their wages and personal gain. It has been about preserving the service the public receive and their own conditions and terms that are already AGREED!
So the next time you or anyone you hear moaning about the postal service you can give them the correct information that it is those poor men and women that are going without, in order to try and protect YOUR public service.
Spare them a few quid if you can.

If it's all about preserving the service, why didn't the workers strike when the two deliveries were scrapped and mail went from being delivered first thing in the morning to around 2pm in the afternoon?

Without wanting to get dragged into yet another argument on the rights and wrongs of the strike, if the CWU hadn't donated £5.2 million to Labour over the past 8 years, perhaps they would be more able to help their striking members.

[archiebald]

Oh they did but were told get on with it as this was progress and the public never bothered till it happened, just like all the post officies closing public thought that wont happen IT DID so who cares :boo hoo::boo hoo::boo hoo:

[Woody1985]

If it's all about preserving the service, why didn't the workers strike when the two deliveries were scrapped and mail went from being delivered first thing in the morning to around 2pm in the afternoon?

Without wanting to get dragged into yet another argument on the rights and wrongs of the strike, if the CWU hadn't donated £5.2 million to Labour over the past 8 years, perhaps they would be more able to help their striking members.

That's a hell of a lot of money to donate. I'm not convinced I'd be happy donating my £10 a month or whatever for it to end up in their hands (pockets).

How much do these guys at the top of the union take out in salaries every year and are they worth it?

[MUSSI LEE]

When I was on strike many years ago any money collected went into a hardship fund that we could apply for. It was mainly for the families - husbands and wives both striking etc. I would guess it would be put towards something like this?aye i know what its is im sure you have to apply i support the union however i sometimes wonder if london is more important.however managment are just 2 faced ******s :grr:

[archiebald]

What has London got to do with it this was a national vote plus all do s and apc-drivers all had the chance to vote on loss of hours,before national strike to which some said nah we are ok after being advised not to except it till further notice.But now they are going back to ALL DO-S for more hours the panic is on.:boo hoo::boo hoo::boo hoo::boo hoo:

[sadtom]

If it's all about preserving the service, why didn't the workers strike when the two deliveries were scrapped and mail went from being delivered first thing in the morning to around 2pm in the afternoon?

Without wanting to get dragged into yet another argument on the rights and wrongs of the strike, if the CWU hadn't donated £5.2 million to Labour over the past 8 years, perhaps they would be more able to help their striking members.

1st point - because there had been a number of strikes, walkouts and work to rules over a couple of decades and many of the staff have been brow beat into accepting 'modernisation' (which we all know is a by word for work harder and more for little or no reward) every time the staff implement the changes - the management push for more.
Would you have supported them if they had gone on all out strike then? The workers and the union know that that when they go on strike they start to loose support from the public the longer that goes on mostly due to the lies and the bias reported in the media. The right wing media (which is them all!) have constantly portrayed the workers as being resistant to change and the poor managers being denied their rights to take the 'business forward' by the 'dinosaurs' of the cwu.
Losing the two deliveries was a fight the workers lost because they were worn down over several years. If they hadn't fought it, it would have been lost many years before, i can assure you. To try and blame the union for implementing changes that management bullied them into is ridiculous, especially as the union membership had managed to hold them off for years.

2nd point - When i left the job some 19 years ago the political levy had been removed and the union no longer donated to the labour party. To be truthful i was unaware it had been re-established and if that is the case then i agree wholeheartedly that the labour party is anti working class and anti trade union and NO union should give these clowns anything.

It was my motion back in 1990 that removed the extra assistance that 2 lothian regional councillors (Brian & Willie) received for being members of the UCW (as was then). I campaigned for that because of the Labour authorities compliance over collecting the poll tax. The motion was carried overwhelmingly at a stormy meeting at the assembly rooms and they lost the extra subsistance.

Support the postal workers - because (without most of you even knowing it) they've been fighting your (the publics) corner for years.

[IWasThere2016]

I don't support the strike(rs) .. there's not enough competition for Royal Mail IMHO.

[sadtom]

I don't support the strike(rs) .. there's not enough competition for Royal Mail IMHO.

Thats your right.
But its my right to think that you will probably one of those types who would be first to complain when one of those so called competitors (cowboy outfits) made an erchie of something that affected you.

In a way you are right, the postal service in this country doesnt have much competition, nationally or internationally. Its the best service in the world and has been for many, many decades. Thats despite management not because of them.
As for private firms giving the posties competition!!!!! Don't make me *****in laugh. Not even close to it.

[IWasThere2016]

Thats your right.
But its my right to think that you will probably one of those types who would be first to complain when one of those so called competitors (cowboy outfits) made an erchie of something that affected you.

In a way you are right, the postal service in this country doesnt have much competition, nationally or internationally. Its the best service in the world and has been for many, many decades. Thats despite management not because of them.
As for private firms giving the posties competition!!!!! Don't make me *****in laugh. Not even close to it.

I'm using TNT - service excellent, price better than RM. No complaints.

[sadtom]

I'm using TNT - service excellent, price better than RM. No complaints.


Any idiot can handle small amounts of cherry picked items.
If we want a NATIONAL service that doesn't discriminate on where you live or if you can afford to pay for recorded or registered items, then they are out of their league and couldn't handle it.

But that all boils down to whether your beliefs in general are for a fair and equitable society or whether you subscribe to the self interst and selfish me me me, i'm all right jack viewpoint.

[archiebald]

Probably dont know that Royal Mail deliver all letters :grr:

[Betty Boop]

I'm using TNT - service excellent, price better than RM. No complaints.

TNT is delivered by Royal Mail.

[IWasThere2016]

TNT is delivered by Royal Mail.

Well as taxpayers we have the right to know why TNT are cheaper then and expect the same of RM .. no?

[IWasThere2016]

Any idiot can handle small amounts of cherry picked items.
If we want a NATIONAL service that doesn't discriminate on where you live or if you can afford to pay for recorded or registered items, then they are out of their league and couldn't handle it.

But that all boils down to whether your beliefs in general are for a fair and equitable society or whether you subscribe to the self interst and selfish me me me, i'm all right jack viewpoint.

Our delivery is still carried out by Royal Mail - our mail collection will not be affected during any industrial action but delivery would be.

The agreement TNT has with Royal Mail means that our mail should be one of the first batches to be sorted and delivered at the end of any action.

Why would RM prioitise TNT? Is that for the good of a NATIONAL service or the money? :cool2:

[Woody1985]

Can anyone explain exactly how the TNT post works.

My understanding is that it is picked up by TNT staff, sorted and passed to the RM who then deliver.

I assume that they offer you the service cheaper than RM and then pay a set amount for each letter delivered to the RM for the delivery aspect. Is that right?

[RyeSloan]

Any idiot can handle small amounts of cherry picked items.
If we want a NATIONAL service that doesn't discriminate on where you live or if you can afford to pay for recorded or registered items, then they are out of their league and couldn't handle it.

But that all boils down to whether your beliefs in general are for a fair and equitable society or whether you subscribe to the self interst and selfish me me me, i'm all right jack viewpoint.

Nonsense....how does support of effective competition become a view that is against an equitable society?

I suppose we chould have kept BT public and still had a single telecom provider renting phones and lines to people at exorbitant prices to pay for the mass ineffiency of public run bodies or even the much maligned British Rail which managed to keep passenger numbers at 1970 levels for 25 years!!

[Betty Boop]

Seems TNT have the same problems as Royal Mail.

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Business/Dutch-Postal-Service-TNT-Faces-Strike-Threat-In-Face-Of-Modernisation/Article/200910415421470?f=rss

[goosano]

In a way you are right, the postal service in this country doesnt have much competition, nationally or internationally. Its the best service in the world and has been for many, many decades. Thats despite management not because of them.


What makes you say it's the best service in the world?

My experience of it is that it's not that great. First class mail often not on time, letters lost and every week a couple of letters wrongly posted through my box

[IndieHibby]

Nonsense....how does support of effective competition become a view that is against an equitable society?

I suppose we chould have kept BT public and still had a single telecom provider renting phones and lines to people at exorbitant prices to pay for the mass ineffiency of public run bodies or even the much maligned British Rail which managed to keep passenger numbers at 1970 levels for 25 years!!

:agree:

[MUSSI LEE]

im sick of that tnt **** having to deliver it :agree:

[Beefster]

im sick of that tnt **** having to deliver it :agree:

Is it different to the Royal Mail stuff that you're having to deliver?

[RyeSloan]

im sick of that tnt **** having to deliver it :agree:

This sums up the problem nicely.

TNT and other companies have taken a quite signifiant amount of bulk mail pick up away from RM, mainly on price and service (and with a 94%+ retention rate!) however they still rely on RM for the 'last mile' a service I'm sure they pay RM for, yet despite the mail still providing an income for the company it's considered TNT ****........what chance does the RM have when that's the attitude??

[sadtom]

What makes you say it's the best service in the world?

My experience of it is that it's not that great. First class mail often not on time, letters lost and every week a couple of letters wrongly posted through my box

For decade upon decade the postal service was by far the best in the world, under any qualification given by any independant analyst. Fact.
In all honesty i dont know how they compare globally now, not seen any figures, though i'm still led to belive they are No1, though the quality has gone down. That however is down to management and their nonsensical 'changes'. Not the fault of the folk doing the job, who, as i have said repeatedly, are trying to preserve the level of service and need all our support when they do try to stand up to the aggressive obnoxious bosses.

[sadtom]

Nonsense....how does support of effective competition become a view that is against an equitable society?

I suppose we chould have kept BT public and still had a single telecom provider renting phones and lines to people at exorbitant prices to pay for the mass ineffiency of public run bodies or even the much maligned British Rail which managed to keep passenger numbers at 1970 levels for 25 years!!

Firstly its a service. Not necessarily a profit making enterprise. There are areas of the busines that are profitable or potentially profitable. If private companies are allowed to 'cherry pick' these profitable areas then the royal mail will lose the services that compensate for them providing standard letter and packet deliveries for those who cant pay for 'special' item deliveries, while providing services for those in rural and especially remote areas. Private companies will not (and could not) provide that service.
Thats why its against an equitable society.

Secondly, I cant believe we still have idiots spouting the 'public bad private good' of the thatcher years. Its bull*****.
It is not public industry that has been bailed out to the tune of trillions.
Private industry is not a better service provider they make profits at the expense of the staff's pay and conditions and pass the profits on to a privaledged few. Most of them recieve PUBLIC funds through govt subsidies but this money again is never seen by anyone other that the shareholders, who again represent a tiny minority.

If British Rail had even received a quarter of the subsidies that the private train companies have had, then the service they could have provide would have been infinately better that the crap it is today.
Lets not forget the political motivation that thatcher and her cronies had by removing freight from the rail to the roads, which made it more costly, worse for the environment and was done to suit a skewed political agenda. It suited her to have the small business freight companies - non unionised and would scab, as oppossed to the potential solidarity that could be shown by the rail unions.
It suited her road building agenda (again bad long term), which unsurprisingly provided tidy sums for her mates, 10 members of the cabinate at the time were non excutive directors or had large portfolios with Tarmac, Wimpey etc.

More disgraceful demonising of public sector - when in reality the $heite that we are in is wholly down to the private sector. Yet unsurprisingly the call in govt and the media are for public sector pay freezes and cuts.While the private bonuses are back - less than 12 months later.
*****ING DISGRACE!

[Beefster]

...

It is not public industry that has been bailed out to the tune of trillions.

...

More disgraceful demonising of public sector - when in reality the $heite that we are in is wholly down to the private sector. Yet unsurprisingly the call in govt and the media are for public sector pay freezes and cuts.While the private bonuses are back - less than 12 months later.
*****ING DISGRACE!

Trillions? The banks have had billions but, as far as I know, it's due to be returned in due course. If the taxpayer covers Royal Mail's £10bn pension deficit, will it be returned with interest?

If you don't think there are pay freezes in the private sector, then you're grossly misinformed. The public sector pay freezes will only apply to those on more than £18,000pa. Or are you suggesting that we should cut the budget for public services even more, just so that the public sector can continue to enjoy inflation-busting pay rises?

[sadtom]

Trillions? The banks have had billions but, as far as I know, it's due to be returned in due course. If the taxpayer covers Royal Mail's £10bn pension deficit, will it be returned with interest?

If you don't think there are pay freezes in the private sector, then you're grossly misinformed. The public sector pay freezes will only apply to those on more than £18,000pa. Or are you suggesting that we should cut the budget for public services even more, just so that the public sector can continue to enjoy inflation-busting pay rises?

No it is TRILLIONS!

If you believe any of that Daily mail drivvel then you are more gulible than i thought.
Inflation busting!!!!!!! I work in the public sector and hav'nt had a raise abve inflation for 6 years. The 3 years before that it was a whole 1/2 percent above inflation. This is the same for all public sector employees that i know.

You say i'm misinformed - ARE THE BONUSES BACK OR AREN'T THEY?

The disgusting thing is we are ALL (public sector and private sector workers) suffering because of the greedy rich at the top of the private sector.
But who is it that are being targeted for cuts, 'modernisation', agreements of terms and conditions ripped up? Not to mention demonised and misrepresented continually in the media.

Public sector workers are again being asked to carry the can for the greed and gross stupidity of others.
***** THAT FOR A GAME OF SOLDIERS!

[goosano]

For decade upon decade the postal service was by far the best in the world, under any qualification given by any independant analyst. Fact.


And the evidence for that statement is.........??????

[IWasThere2016]

I see CWU are taking legal action over RM's 30,000 temps

Also a further 3,700 jobs to go in RBS ..

[Stoney Hibee]

I see CWU are taking legal action over RM's 30,000 temps

Also a further 3,700 jobs to go in RBS ..

The CWU would threaten strike action if you asked them to move there break back five minutes so this is no great surprise!

[sadtom]

The CWU would threaten strike action if you asked them to move there break back five minutes so this is no great surprise!

LIES!

Over the last 25 years they have had to put up with change after change. Much of it for changes sake, and often the changes are because RM management are deliberately provocative and because some over promoted halfwit is trying to 'make their mark'.

---------- Post added at 10:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:20 PM ----------


And the evidence for that statement is.........??????

More to the point. Could you tell me a country whose postal service is better/more efficient?

[Green Mikey]

For decade upon decade the postal service was by far the best in the world, under any qualification given by any independant analyst. Fact.
In all honesty i dont know how they compare globally now, not seen any figures, though i'm still led to belive they are No1, though the quality has gone down. That however is down to management and their nonsensical 'changes'. Not the fault of the folk doing the job, who, as i have said repeatedly, are trying to preserve the level of service and need all our support when they do try to stand up to the aggressive obnoxious bosses.

Can I see the facts? Is this your assesment or is there actual research to verify your assertion. What is the criteria used to judge the worlds top postal service?

What is this level of service nonsense that is being constantly used as a reason for the strike. Surely, it must be the user of a service that determines if it is achieving a adequate 'level of service' not the employees on behalf of the consumer. How can the employees truly understand beyond the normal anecdotal evidence that the service is viewed as sub-standard by a large portion of the users?

Due to RM's vitual monopoly of the postal sevice there is not a way that consumers can show that they do not like the service ie. remove custom. In the areas where competition has been allowed customers have moved to TNT and other providers, this is how customers show their assesment of service levels. By striking to protect a monopoly in the name of 'service levels', RM workers are unfairly restricting the choice of consumers to choose their 'service level'.

[sadtom]

Can I see the facts? Is this your assesment or is there actual research to verify your assertion. What is the criteria used to judge the worlds top postal service?

What is this level of service nonsense that is being constantly used as a reason for the strike. Surely, it must be the user of a service that determines if it is achieving a adequate 'level of service' not the employees on behalf of the consumer. How can the employees truly understand beyond the normal anecdotal evidence that the service is viewed as sub-standard by a large portion of the users?

Due to RM's vitual monopoly of the postal sevice there is not a way that consumers can show that they do not like the service ie. remove custom. In the areas where competition has been allowed customers have moved to TNT and other providers, this is how customers show their assesment of service levels. By striking to protect a monopoly in the name of 'service levels', RM workers are unfairly restricting the choice of consumers to choose their 'service level'.


I no longer have privvy to the info, though i once had. I am under no illusions that it will not be as impressive as it once was. When i left more than 97% of 1st class mail posted made it the next day (no other country even gave that undertaking) More than 93% of 2nd class mail made it within the 4 day guidelines. When it came to cost and postbox to door times for 1st and 2nd class mail (when i last saw the breakdown) no other country came close.

Again i re-iterrate that the post is a PUBLIC SERVICE it is not a profit making organisation.
Instead of all this thatcherite 'consumer rights' arguements. What about the 'rights' and the 'satisfaction' of the people who actually do the job?

Of course if special deliveries are being done 'cheaper' by private companies some members of the public will use them (even if the home streatch is carried out by the posties). That is the whole point of my arguement.
If the service is opened to 'competition' the the 'premium' parts of the service will be carried out by private companies and the RM will lose that part of the service that allows them to carry out the unprofitable parts of the service that the private companies are unwilling and unable to take on.
This will mean that we will all end up paying extra to ensure 'important' mail is delivered via register/recorde mail (costing a hell of a lot more than the current 1st class stamp price) and the standard service will get progressively worse and more expensive to make up for losing the premium part of the service.
Competition may make the premium service better but it will be the deathknell for the (vast majority) standard service. If you live in the 'sticks' you will almost be compelled to use the higher tariff service.

If you want the postal service to remain exactly that, a public SERVICE then the monopoly MUST be maintained.
If on the other hand you subscribe to the i'm all right jack mentality that i mentioned before, then hell mend you. When it goes breasts up and people are having to pay a couple of quid just to ensure delivery we'll see what the 'consumer' thinks then!

p.s. No wonder MUSSIE LEE is angry. How happy would you be having to do the job of a company that is threatening your livelyhood?
He has every right to be bloody livid!

Some of the tabliod inspired, reactionary pi$h i've read on hear proves to me that if you throw enough mud some of it will stick. There is not much you can do to argue against lies and myths so its my last word on the subject.

[Lofarl]

The whole issue regarding service levels is moot. Fair enough TNT,DHL,UPS or Ukmail could well put out posties in cherry picked profitable areas. But no chance of them doing rurals, town or anywhere outwith city centres or business parks.

Now consumers would not have much of a say as to which company would deliver your mail as every single other carrier is a business where as Royal Mail is a public service. Take a look at the top right corner of your mail. You will see the carriers logo there. But I guarantee it is a royal mail postie at your door.

What you have to remember is all these other companys can underbid Royal Mail for the mail contracts then pay us a minimal fee for delivery. Remember its only Royal Mail that has a universal service agreement to deliver to every door in the UK. So we get downstream access to this mail from other companies an these figures are not taking into account when you hear Royal Mail management talking about how much less mail we are delivering. Absolute rubbish.

Plus no other carrier has anywhere near the infastructure to have a universal delivery without huge investment making it uneconomic to try. Or we can do what they do in Turkey and other areas which is drive around like a ice cream van blaring chimes to get you to come out for your mail.

[Rory89]

Hold on a second, don't posties go home for the day about 11am or something? GTF lazy gits I've been waiting on my new student card and Football Manager for longer then I'd of liked to.

I make a modest living playing FM all day and getting pished at night and these damn posties are ruining it for me on both counts. :grr:

[Beefster]

No it is TRILLIONS!

If you believe any of that Daily mail drivvel then you are more gulible than i thought.
Inflation busting!!!!!!! I work in the public sector and hav'nt had a raise abve inflation for 6 years. The 3 years before that it was a whole 1/2 percent above inflation. This is the same for all public sector employees that i know.

You say i'm misinformed - ARE THE BONUSES BACK OR AREN'T THEY?

The disgusting thing is we are ALL (public sector and private sector workers) suffering because of the greedy rich at the top of the private sector.
But who is it that are being targeted for cuts, 'modernisation', agreements of terms and conditions ripped up? Not to mention demonised and misrepresented continually in the media.

Public sector workers are again being asked to carry the can for the greed and gross stupidity of others.
***** THAT FOR A GAME OF SOLDIERS!

The management of some banks were incompetent, yes. So were the FSA and the Treasury.

Again though, the vast majority of that money will be paid back to the taxpayer with interest. Another big difference is that some banks would have disappeared without state intervention. The only way that the Royal Mail is going to disappear is if its employees kill it off.

Cash bonuses are back, yes. Unless you earn over £39k. Seems reasonable to me.

Can you point me to any articles where the humble postie has been demonised? All the reporting that I've read has been remarkably balanced.

So, are you suggesting that Royal Mail should get even more taxpayer money to pay for the company to hand out pay rises to its employees, pay off its £10bn pension deficit and not bother improving efficiency any further?

[IWasThere2016]

Some of the tabliod inspired, reactionary pi$h i've read on hear proves to me that if you throw enough mud some of it will stick. There is not much you can do to argue against lies and myths so its my last word on the subject.

Pity - I was looking forward to a reply to my points ..


Our delivery is still carried out by Royal Mail - our mail collection will not be affected during any industrial action but delivery would be.

The agreement TNT has with Royal Mail means that our mail should be one of the first batches to be sorted and delivered at the end of any action.

Why would RM prioitise TNT? Is that for the good of a NATIONAL service or the money? :cool2:

[Green Mikey]

When it came to cost and postbox to door times for 1st and 2nd class mail (when i last saw the breakdown) no other country came close..


Competition may make the premium service better but it will be the deathknell for the (vast majority) standard service. If you live in the 'sticks' you will almost be compelled to use the higher tariff service.


This will mean that we will all end up paying extra to ensure 'important' mail is delivered via register/recorde mail (costing a hell of a lot more than the current 1st class stamp price) and the standard service will get progressively worse and more expensive to make up for losing the premium part of the service.


It only costs 39p to send a letter first class, this is incredibly cheap! If RM is offering a world class service maybe they should charge more. 50p wouldn't be unreasonable and I'm sure that deamnd is pretty inelastioc for first class post.

Why is there a flat fee for distance within the UK, if someone send a letter 500 miles compared to 5 miles surely they should pay more? The more that you consume the more you pay, seems to be used in most other industries.



Again i re-iterrate that the post is a PUBLIC SERVICE it is not a profit making organisation.
Instead of all this thatcherite 'consumer rights' arguements. What about the 'rights' and the 'satisfaction' of the people who actually do the job?

You don't think that consumer rights are important but you will strike to protect the public servce. Doesn't make much sense to me. I think the sentence in bold sums it up...you are striking to preserve the way that you currently work not for the public's benefit. This 'public service' argument is bullsh*t and is spin from the unions to get the public onside.



Some of the tabliod inspired, reactionary pi$h i've read on hear proves to me that if you throw enough mud some of it will stick. There is not much you can do to argue against lies and myths so its my last word on the subject.

I've not read a tabloid paper in years!

[Betty Boop]

I am more outraged about the further billions being handed out to the RBS and Lloyds, this country is being governed by the banking system. Privatised profit and nationalised loss, it is about time the public woke up. I don't see the same outrage about these fraudsters that is being directed at the posties! :grr:

[marinello59]

Why is there a flat fee for distance within the UK, if someone send a letter 500 miles compared to 5 miles surely they should pay more? The more that you consume the more you pay, seems to be used in most other industries.


How do you think that would affect much needed businesses in outlying areas?

---------- Post added at 01:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:09 PM ----------


I am more outraged about the further billions being handed out to the RBS and Lloyds, this country is being governed by the banking system. Privatised profit and nationalised loss, it is about time the public woke up. I don't see the same outrage about these fraudsters that is being directed at the posties! :grr:

They are easy targets. I remember the same outrage being expressed when the striking miners were collecting canned food on the streets.

[IndieHibby]

Very little of the mail I recieve these days is actually desired. The stuff I do receive could either be emailed or I have actually requested (and paid) for it's delivery.

Of the mail I send, most could be replaced with a phone call or an email. If I choose to send mail, then I am more than willing to pay a fair price for it.

If an OAP with little money and no internet access or phone still requires lettered communication, then the sender (family, state, NHS) pays.

Otherwise it is just another dinosaur monopoly that is raging against the dimming of the light.

Adapt or die.

[Twa Cairpets]

Why is there a flat fee for distance within the UK, if someone send a letter 500 miles compared to 5 miles surely they should pay more? The more that you consume the more you pay, seems to be used in most other industries.



Im guessing here but I would think the following should answer your question:

1) Cost of implementation: How does a post box know where a letter is going?
Who picks up the cost for under-funded letters. How are they managed and identified etc etc. I would think that the costs of trying to enforce the system would outweigh the benefits
2) Penalising remote communities. Quite literally a postcode lottery of mail charges.
3) Probably the most important thing is that the costs of the Royal Mail service will, I think, be based on a recovery of overall overhead rather than a calculated cost per letter. The service would be open, I suspect, to serious underfunding if a multi-tiered pricing system was introduced.

[Moulin Yarns]

Why on earth were there people with buckets outside the ground yesterday shaking buckets of cash for the postal workers?! And more to the point, why where people giving them money!?

Think I could do with some cash.... might take a bucket down myself next weekend!

I understand these people striking if they feel hard done by, but dont expect us to pay for the time off!


Getting away from the explosive debate about the merits of TNT, and back to the original debate. Is it not the case that you need a licence for a street collection? I'm sure charities have to apply and there are not enough to go round (although how Macmillan always seem to be in Albion Road might blow that argument)

[marinello59]

Im guessing here but I would think the following should answer your question:

1) Cost of implementation: How does a post box know where a letter is going?
Who picks up the cost for under-funded letters. How are they managed and identified etc etc. I would think that the costs of trying to enforce the system would outweigh the benefits
2) Penalising remote communities. Quite literally a postcode lottery of mail charges.
3) Probably the most important thing is that the costs of the Royal Mail service will, I think, be based on a recovery of overall overhead rather than a calculated cost per letter. The service would be open, I suspect, to serious underfunding if a multi-tiered pricing system was introduced.
:agree:
Would a Private company provide the same service to Shetland as it would to London? No, it would cherry pick the more profitable delivery areas and leave the rest for the the tax payer to deal with.

[marinello59]

Very little of the mail I recieve these days is actually desired. The stuff I do receive could either be emailed or I have actually requested (and paid) for it's delivery.

Of the mail I send, most could be replaced with a phone call or an email. If I choose to send mail, then I am more than willing to pay a fair price for it.

If an OAP with little money and no internet access or phone still requires lettered communication, then the sender (family, state, NHS) pays.

Otherwise it is just another dinosaur monopoly that is raging against the dimming of the light.

Adapt or die.

That was a quick edit.:greengrin

[IndieHibby]

That was a quick edit.:greengrin

Sometimes I have to post something before I read it and realise it's complete *****!

Sometimes i don't even notice....:wink:

[IWasThere2016]

I am more outraged about the further billions being handed out to the RBS and Lloyds, this country is being governed by the banking system. Privatised profit and nationalised loss, it is about time the public woke up. I don't see the same outrage about these fraudsters that is being directed at the posties! :grr:

I don't get it either - I think we should have had tax-cuts and incentives to spend or tax-breaks to encourage folks to address personal debts etc

[Green Mikey]

How do you think that would affect much needed businesses in outlying areas?[COLOR="Silver"]

QUOTE]

[QUOTE=TwoCarpets;2229088]Im guessing here but I would think the following should answer your question:

1) Cost of implementation: How does a post box know where a letter is going?
Who picks up the cost for under-funded letters. How are they managed and identified etc etc. I would think that the costs of trying to enforce the system would outweigh the benefits
2) Penalising remote communities. Quite literally a postcode lottery of mail charges.
3) Probably the most important thing is that the costs of the Royal Mail service will, I think, be based on a recovery of overall overhead rather than a calculated cost per letter. The service would be open, I suspect, to serious underfunding if a multi-tiered pricing system was introduced.

I'll admit it was a bit of a poor idea! But the point I'm trying to make is why do people believe that RM has to provide the same service the everyone at the the same price? Goods and services already cost more in remote areas (fuel, food etc) but the mail is not the same.

I don't think that cheap postage costs for remote areas is a viable justification for the continuation of the current structure of the outdated relic that RM is today.

[Dashing Bob S]

I am more outraged about the further billions being handed out to the RBS and Lloyds, this country is being governed by the banking system. Privatised profit and nationalised loss, it is about time the public woke up. I don't see the same outrage about these fraudsters that is being directed at the posties! :grr:

Exactly. This will go down as the biggest scam the British (and American) ruling classes and their lackeys have pulled off in recent history at the expense of the ordinary citizens.

1) 'deregulate' and give the superich license to rip-off the rest of us.

2) insist that the rest of then bail them out by giving them our tax money so they can carry on as if nothing has happened.

Easier that they were able to get the so-called people's parties (Labour and Democrats) to go along with this. Shame on them, and tbh, more fool us all for putting up with this. We've forelock tugged and cowed in the face of power in this country for so long, cheerleaded by an obnoxious 'populist' right-wing media, we probably deserve it.

Rant over.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Exactly. This will go down as the biggest scam the British (and American) ruling classes and their lackeys have pulled off in recent history at the expense of the ordinary citizens.

1) 'deregulate' and give the superich license to rip-off the rest of us.

2) insist that the rest of then bail them out by giving them our tax money so they can carry on as if nothing has happened.

Easier that they were able to get the so-called people's parties (Labour and Democrats) to go along with this. Shame on them, and tbh, more fool us all for putting up with this. We've forelock tugged and cowed in the face of power in this country for so long, cheerleaded by an obnoxious 'populist' right-wing media, we probably deserve it.

Rant over.

You're right, but we keep letting the *******s away with it.

To the barricades! I've got some petrol anybody got any petrol?

[Andy74]

The disgusting thing is we are ALL (public sector and private sector workers) suffering because of the greedy rich at the top of the private sector.
But who is it that are being targeted for cuts, 'modernisation', agreements of terms and conditions ripped up? Not to mention demonised and misrepresented continually in the media.

Public sector workers are again being asked to carry the can for the greed and gross stupidity of others.


Again, if you believe that you are misinformed.

I work for a bank and about 20% of the work force has been cut with more to come. There have been no pay increases, inflation level or not, agreements to certain guaranteed annual payments that were part and parcel of our basic conditions (not bonuses) ripped up, and a previously agreed pension fund changed dramaitically for the worse for exosting members.

And talk about being demonised and misrepresented by the media?! Your rant has just summed it up, normal bank employees have had it all.

I'm not convinced that many public sector workers have any true appreciation of how things work in the private sector, you all seem to be taken in by the headline half a per cent of people who make big salaries or bonuses.

[Woody1985]

Again, if you believe that you are misinformed.

I work for a bank and about 20% of the work force has been cut with more to come. There have been no pay increases, inflation level or not, agreements to certain guaranteed annual payments that were part and parcel of our basic conditions (not bonuses) ripped up, and a previously agreed pension fund changed dramaitically for the worse for exosting members.

And talk about being demonised and misrepresented by the media?! Your rant has just summed it up, normal bank employees have had it all.

I'm not convinced that many public sector workers have any true appreciation of how things work in the private sector, you all seem to be taken in by the headline half a per cent of people who make big salaries or bonuses.

:top marks

This is what annoy's me a little, people talk about banks and companies getting bonuses.

Although the company I work for hasn't received any government bailout I suspect if it is recorded that my company has paid x million in bonuses in the next financial year, assuming we get one, there will be some kind of moral outrage.

It will be because we have met pre-defined targets but management are taking into consideration the negative impact on company image that paying bonuses in the next year may have. That could mean the reduction of bonus amounts for staff who have worked hard to meet the company objectives.

We haven't profiteered from the high risk mortgages and had/have one of the lowest arrears rate it the market, if not the lowest (i think that was around a year or so ago, not looked at the positions lately).

You should be aware of the above before slating banks and other financial institutions for receiving bonuses.

I also think that bonuses are paid to your average private sector worker (mine is the equivelent of one month wage) to reduce the companies contribution to the workers pension pots in relation to their salaries i.e. the lower paid the worker is via salary the less they potentially have to contribute. Although you can sacrafice part of your bonus to your pension I'd say that most are likely to spend it, saving on the matching contributions from the company.

Andy, you may have a cleared understanding of it than I do but that is my general understanding of why it makes it more beneficial (cheaper) to pay bonuses (as well as the overall incentive to perform well).

[SlickShoes]

I can understand why they are striking but personally have no sympathy because the level of service i get here in portobello is terrible.

Ive not had a recorded item or parcel make it to my door for 2 years now, ive complained countless times but each time i get something sent to me recorded or parcel size, i get one of these cards through the door telling me i wasnt in. By the time i open the door to ask the postie about it hes gone. Then when i make to the post office or depot with its piss poor opening times that seem to match when most people work, i find they have about five parcels for me they just have not bothered to bring to the house.

Like i said complaint after complaint goes unanswered. I even tried to get back money for an item they lost but that was totally impossible they made it so difficult that months later i just ended up giving up. In my opinion its a **** service and if i had the option id just use a courier as i know they will at least ring my doorbell with the parcel.

I understand if you live in rural areas the service is needed more and might be better but for me here its hardly even worth it.

[archiebald]

Must be poor managment

[ronaldo7]

Hold on a second, don't posties go home for the day about 11am or something? GTF lazy gits I've been waiting on my new student card and Football Manager for longer then I'd of liked to.

I make a modest living playing FM all day and getting pished at night and these damn posties are ruining it for me on both counts. :grr:

My Nephew started working for the RM about 8 weeks ago now.

His hours of work are 8am to 2pm Monday to Saturday with a day off during the week.

He's never had to work his full hours yet, and has been in the house again as early as 10.30.

I asked if it was due to his trial period, but he assured me the rest of the boys do similar hours.

Job and finish went out with the ark I'd thought.

[Beefster]

My Nephew started working for the RM about 8 weeks ago now.

His hours of work are 8am to 2pm Monday to Saturday with a day off during the week.

He's never had to work his full hours yet, and has been in the house again as early as 10.30.

I asked if it was due to his trial period, but he assured me the rest of the boys do similar hours.

Job and finish went out with the ark I'd thought.

No wonder they're striking if RM are now asking them to do the full 6 hours....

[archiebald]

did he sign the offical secrets ? never heard so much p ss :confused:

[RyeSloan]

Must be poor managment


did he sign the offical secrets ? never heard so much p ss :confused:


Do you have anything constructive to add or just pointless one liners?

[archiebald]

And what have you got to say ? NIL :blah:

[RyeSloan]

And what have you got to say ? NIL :blah:

I have plenty to say but you will be glad to know that none of it will be directed towards you due to the balantly obvious fact that you have been incapable of making any clear or constructive points on any of your posts in this thread......

[shamo9]

Are they actually going on strike tomorrow? Sky says it's been called off:confused:

[Www1875hfc]

Just had a txt fi ma mate at the russell road sorting office.
He said strike is off mail as per usual.

[IWasThere2016]

No wonder they're striking if RM are now asking them to do the full 6 hours....

:greengrin

[archiebald]

oooooh good enough for you to answer :bye:

[goosano]

I’ve found it hard to make any sense of the postal strike and the arguments of both sides. Both sides seem very entrenched in their views. It has been said on this thread that the UK postal service is the best on the world. My own personal experience has not been great. So I thought I would look for some evidence to try and weigh up what is going on. The info I got was from an independent commission in to postal services, from the government website and from Postcomm.

First of all prices are quite good in the UK. Postcomm UK 1st class prices are 10th lowest out of 28 developed countries and with the falling exchange rate is likely to be even better relative value now. A 500g parcel is 9th most expensive of 28 countries. A second class letter is cheapest of 13 countries.

Customer satisfaction was harder to pin down and the best information was from 6 years ago. UK customers were 4th happiest out of 18 countries with their postal service(the UK ranked no1 for mobile phone, gas, electricity) with 85 % satisfaction.

However an independent report stated-levels of automation are far lower than comparable European businesses. For example, 'walk-sorting' (getting letters together for one postman's round) is 70% automated. Europe manages 95%. Worse, 'walk-sequencing' (putting the letters in the right order) is 85% automated at leading European organisations, but is done entirely by hand here. RM labour costs are 66% of revenue, higher than everywhere in Europe except Spain. What makes wage costs truly tough to control is a long tradition of irregular, expensive working practices. These include inflexible roles and generous overtime rules. pay set above market rates, leading to a situation in which labour costs at Royal Mail Group were among the highest of European postal companies.

So the truth is probably somewhere in the middle. We have a cheapish service that most people are pleased with. It is not a world leading service by any means. We are way behind with modernisation and Royal mail are struggling with high labour costs and inflexible workers. No doubt the workers will say that the management are responsible for the position they are in

[Ollie Reed]

My Nephew started working for the RM about 8 weeks ago now.

His hours of work are 8am to 2pm Monday to Saturday with a day off during the week.

He's never had to work his full hours yet, and has been in the house again as early as 10.30.

I asked if it was due to his trial period, but he assured me the rest of the boys do similar hours.

Job and finish went out with the ark I'd thought.

Start at work 5.30, finish at 3.30 pretty much every day. Next?