Poor Huns, finances apparently worse than Hearts (merged)

[hibbie02]

I was reading about the Stickie's financial woes and the fact Lloyds Bank have put someone onto the Rankers Board to sort out the finances.

Apparently their debt is over £30 million and Uncle Wattie is not getting any sheckels to buy new players.

Shurely this means that the Yams are a much bigger club than the Stickies as their Debt is much higher and they have no financial worries at all. Maybe Vlad should be the one to go to Ibrox and join their board. He could explain the way Hertz handle their debt. Maybe the Huns can create some more shares and swap it for their own debt and make it go away??? Maybe just explain the Lloyds that they are trying to maintain this level of debt to avoid tax on profits?

How funny would it be to see Hertz and their manky cousins go into Administration in the same season? :greengrin

[--------]

I was reading about the Stickie's financial woes and the fact Lloyds Bank have put someone onto the Rankers Board to sort out the finances.

Apparently their debt is over £30 million and Uncle Wattie is not getting any sheckels to buy new players.

Shurely this means that the Yams are a much bigger club than the Stickies as their Debt is much higher and they have no financial worries at all. Maybe Vlad should be the one to go to Ibrox and join their board. He could explain the way Hertz handle their debt. Maybe the Huns can create some more shares and swap it for their own debt and make it go away??? Maybe just explain the Lloyds that they are trying to maintain this level of debt to avoid tax on profits?

How funny would it be to see Hertz and their manky cousins go into Administration in the same season? :greengrin


Rangers should transfer ALL their accounts to UKIO Bankas immediately. Uncle Vlad would sort out their debts and allow them to buy multiple World Cup stars, appoint World Class Managers and Directors of Football, and build new stands and hotel complexes at Ibrox, increasing the capacity to 3000 zillion in line with their standiong as one of the World's Greatest Football Clubs.

Or maybe not.... :devil:

[Aldo]

Tell you what Rodders has done a fantastic job for us in this department. He has got us in a brilliant position and the envy of many SPL teams.

In Rod we trust. :thumbsup:

[bobbyhibs1983]

of course hearts are a bigger club than rangers, dont you know herts have 4000000000000 fans and always sell out tynie?plus they have something like 40000000 ppl on the waiting list.

heartz dont have any debt, they owe money to themselfs and have no chance of going into adminatration(sp)

[EasterRoad4Ever]

http://sport.stv.tv/football/scottish-premier/rangers/132590-rangers-should-be-fearful-of-the-months-ahead/?

Cue the start of the sympathetic and heart-renching reporting of the Huns financial demise - poor wee souls haven't got two half-pennies to rub together apparently. This has left Great Uncle Walter with a depleted squad of highly paid internationalists to compete in a piss poor SPL against teams with a fraction of the turnover and wage budget of the Huns. :bye:

[Borders Hibby]

http://sport.stv.tv/football/scottish-premier/rangers/132590-rangers-should-be-fearful-of-the-months-ahead/?

Cue the start of the sympathetic and heart-renching reporting of the Huns financial demise - poor wee souls haven't got two half-pennies to rub together apparently. This has left Great Uncle Walter with a depleted squad of highly paid internationalists to compete in a piss poor SPL against teams with a fraction of the turnover and wage budget of the Huns. :bye:

Great article in the Scotland on Sunday too. Murray has left them in a right mess, might happen to our neighbours soon as well.:agree:

[Dashing Bob S]

http://sport.stv.tv/football/scottish-premier/rangers/132590-rangers-should-be-fearful-of-the-months-ahead/?

Cue the start of the sympathetic and heart-renching reporting of the Huns financial demise - poor wee souls haven't got two half-pennies to rub together apparently. This has left Great Uncle Walter with a depleted squad of highly paid internationalists to compete in a piss poor SPL against teams with a fraction of the turnover and wage budget of the Huns. :bye:

I think it's a terrible tragedy. Either the Westminster government or the Scottish Parliament -I don't care which- should put a penny on or income tax, to be used exclusively on rebuilding this proud institution.

[Borders Hibby]

I think it's a terrible tragedy. Either the Westminster government or the Scottish Parliament -I don't care which- should put a penny on or income tax, to be used exclusively on rebuilding this proud institution.

and pay Murray a bonus?:wink:

[CalgaryHibs]

Well they have to blame themselfs, but would they admit it ?



NO !

[bobbyhibs1983]

i dont really have any time for rangers or smeltic, bottom line is i feel they have "robbed" a few players from us, e.g caldwell and agrath(sp) spring to mind and getting they both cheaply, i know they both had like small time left on there contacts but hey,
Im sure they have probaly bought players from other clubs cheaply and neveer play them,

[Phil D. Rolls]

No money my *rse. Would you give Walter a cheque book after some of the great players he signed for the Gers in the past. Like, er.....Terry Hurlock for example. Poor Walter, the writing is on the wall and he just can't read it.

At the same time we shouldn't be too smug, this is bad news for Scottish Football, as lack of money tricking down from the OF means that everyone suffers. Doesn't it?

[Keith_M]

.....this is bad news for Scottish Football, as lack of money tricking down from the OF means that everyone suffers. Doesn't it?

My sarcasm Radar isn't working today. Was that a joke or are you serious?



Honest question here, and it's purely theoretical, but... Would Celtic survive if Rangers went bust? I always felt they had a symbiotic relationship, one feeding off the 'enmity' of the other.

[Keith_M]

In the Scotsman (http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/sport/Uncertainty-grips-Ibrox.5764251.jp)?


"The club has, in effect, been for sale for four years but despite a number of reports of potential buyers, none has been found. Yesterday there were suggestions that board member Dave King, who invested £25m in the club in 2000, and another unnamed group were considering lodging an offer within the week"


:hmmm:

[erskine-hibby]

In the Scotsman (http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/sport/Uncertainty-grips-Ibrox.5764251.jp)?


"The club has, in effect, been for sale for four years but despite a number of reports of potential buyers, none has been found. Yesterday there were suggestions that board member Dave King, who invested £25m in the club in 2000, and another unnamed group were considering lodging an offer within the week"


:hmmm:

Yeah I heard that there was some backing from China from his cousin Wan:greengrin

[HibsNibs]

I was enjoying an old thread on swallowswallow entitled "could rangers end up bankrupt?" when it disappeared without trace. The fact that they feel they have to do that makes me think they must be truly cacking themselves and that their demise is a real possibility :thumbsup:.

Anyway, one page was preserved in my browser cache. This is the most interesting post on it IMHO:-

Re: could rangers end up bankrupt?
I don't post on here, but I do like to read the views. This is one subject where I think I can add something, so I will break my silence.

It is my opinion that Rangers are in real trouble with finance. Or more correctly, David Murray and MIH is.

I've seen MIH Accounts to 31 Jan 2008 and what follows is a brief summary of them. (The date is important when one considers the financial meltdown that 2008 has shown us).

1. The Group had net assets of £158m. This is an important figure in that it tells you what you own less what you owe. It represents what would be left over if all the companies liabilities were paid in the morning. While £158m seems healthy read on.

2. £800m of the companies assets include properties, rangers and land being developed (£250m). The accounts continuously state that the valuations are based on the directors estimates etc. How much has property dropped in the UK in the last 12 months? Being even more percise - how much has commercial property fallen by? If (say) its 20% then in reality (assuming all those estimates were bang on the money - the value of the assets are now £160m less. If this is the case then the net assets are now no longer +£158m but -£2m and the company is technically insolvent

3. You will note that Ibrox is included in the accounts at a valuation provided by a firm of Chartered Surveyors in Glasgow. From memory this valuation was £120m. While I am no expert in property prices in the Strathclyde region this (even at the height of the market) seems ambitious (read for ambitious, ludicrous).

4. Given that metal prices have collapsed in 2008 then the I have no doubt that the accounts at January 2009 would worry even the most bullish banker.

2009 will be a very interesting year to be a Rangers fan I think.
Last edited by Derek&Clive; 29-12-2008 at 04:43.

The same guy went on to say he thought Murray's company was £770m in debt before the credit crunch even bit and they were only able to service this debt by borrowing even more.
:bye::bye:

[steviehfc]

I was enjoying an old thread on swallowswallow entitled "could rangers end up bankrupt?" when it disappeared without trace. The fact that they feel they have to do that makes me think they must be truly cacking themselves and that their demise is a real possibility :thumbsup:.

Anyway, one page was preserved in my browser cache. This is the most interesting post on it IMHO:-

Re: could rangers end up bankrupt?
I don't post on here, but I do like to read the views. This is one subject where I think I can add something, so I will break my silence.

It is my opinion that Rangers are in real trouble with finance. Or more correctly, David Murray and MIH is.

I've seen MIH Accounts to 31 Jan 2008 and what follows is a brief summary of them. (The date is important when one considers the financial meltdown that 2008 has shown us).

1. The Group had net assets of £158m. This is an important figure in that it tells you what you own less what you owe. It represents what would be left over if all the companies liabilities were paid in the morning. While £158m seems healthy read on.

2. £800m of the companies assets include properties, rangers and land being developed (£250m). The accounts continuously state that the valuations are based on the directors estimates etc. How much has property dropped in the UK in the last 12 months? Being even more percise - how much has commercial property fallen by? If (say) its 20% then in reality (assuming all those estimates were bang on the money - the value of the assets are now £160m less. If this is the case then the net assets are now no longer +£158m but -£2m and the company is technically insolvent

3. You will note that Ibrox is included in the accounts at a valuation provided by a firm of Chartered Surveyors in Glasgow. From memory this valuation was £120m. While I am no expert in property prices in the Strathclyde region this (even at the height of the market) seems ambitious (read for ambitious, ludicrous).

4. Given that metal prices have collapsed in 2008 then the I have no doubt that the accounts at January 2009 would worry even the most bullish banker.

2009 will be a very interesting year to be a Rangers fan I think.
Last edited by Derek&Clive; 29-12-2008 at 04:43.

The same guy went on to say he thought Murray's company was £770m in debt before the credit crunch even bit and they were only able to service this debt by borrowing even more.
:bye::bye:Please let this all be true. :bye::bye: Rankgers

[Dibben]

Perhaps Rangers & Hearts could merge and build a stadium in Harthill?

Harthill Harriers FC...

The futures bright!!!

BH.

[Bostonhibby]

Here they are.

Putting the take over offer to the vote:wink:

[--------]

Perhaps Rangers & Hearts could merge and build a stadium in Harthill?

Harthill Harriers FC...

The futures bright!!!

BH.


Aw come on - that's just up the road from here. Why should I have to put up with Wee Huns as well as Big Huns?

They could merge with Airdrie - they've got a stadium that'd probably seat them all once the glory-Hun-ters had disappeared and the diehards of all brands had topped themselves.... :devil:


And Wee Airdrie Jambo agrees. :wink:

[Dibben]

Aw come on - that's just up the road from here. Why should I have to put up with Wee Huns as well as Big Huns?

They could merge with Airdrie - they've got a stadium that'd probably seat them all once the glory-Hun-ters had disappeared and the diehards of all brands had topped themselves.... :devil:


And Wee Airdrie Jambo agrees. :wink:

:thumbsup:

Much better plan!!

Airdrie ****holes FC...

BH.

[Hibercelona]

I was enjoying an old thread on swallowswallow entitled "could rangers end up bankrupt?" when it disappeared without trace. The fact that they feel they have to do that makes me think they must be truly cacking themselves and that their demise is a real possibility :thumbsup:.

Anyway, one page was preserved in my browser cache. This is the most interesting post on it IMHO:-

Re: could rangers end up bankrupt?
I don't post on here, but I do like to read the views. This is one subject where I think I can add something, so I will break my silence.

It is my opinion that Rangers are in real trouble with finance. Or more correctly, David Murray and MIH is.

I've seen MIH Accounts to 31 Jan 2008 and what follows is a brief summary of them. (The date is important when one considers the financial meltdown that 2008 has shown us).

1. The Group had net assets of £158m. This is an important figure in that it tells you what you own less what you owe. It represents what would be left over if all the companies liabilities were paid in the morning. While £158m seems healthy read on.

2. £800m of the companies assets include properties, rangers and land being developed (£250m). The accounts continuously state that the valuations are based on the directors estimates etc. How much has property dropped in the UK in the last 12 months? Being even more percise - how much has commercial property fallen by? If (say) its 20% then in reality (assuming all those estimates were bang on the money - the value of the assets are now £160m less. If this is the case then the net assets are now no longer +£158m but -£2m and the company is technically insolvent

3. You will note that Ibrox is included in the accounts at a valuation provided by a firm of Chartered Surveyors in Glasgow. From memory this valuation was £120m. While I am no expert in property prices in the Strathclyde region this (even at the height of the market) seems ambitious (read for ambitious, ludicrous).

4. Given that metal prices have collapsed in 2008 then the I have no doubt that the accounts at January 2009 would worry even the most bullish banker.

2009 will be a very interesting year to be a Rangers fan I think.
Last edited by Derek&Clive; 29-12-2008 at 04:43.

The same guy went on to say he thought Murray's company was £770m in debt before the credit crunch even bit and they were only able to service this debt by borrowing even more.
:bye::bye:

Assuming that property value has dropped by 20%... this could be very worrying for RFC. :agree:

And I don't see this improving in the short term.

[Rory89]

Got a taxi from the flat to Ibrox and the Celtic supporting cabbie was adament that he knew for a fact that Bougherra is not injured at all, but they were saying he is because the club can't pay the next payment after he goes over a certain number of appearences. Bull**** or not I'll let you decide.

On a different note the cabbie could only drop us off at the exact opposite corner of the ground from the away end, and I have to say it was a horrible experience walking along Ibrox with my scarf tucked away out of site from these vile people. Just a bunch of jakey, bigoted, wife beating ****bag ********s. The look on all their faces from minute 63 to 90 makes me get the impression quite a few wifes would've spent the night in A and E after "falling down the stairs".

[forthhibby]

it's certainly not looking good for them :greengrin

Revealed: banker’s ultimatum to debt-hit Rangers

Rangers’ banker has threatened to put the football club into administration
Darrell King

Rangers’ banker has threatened to put the football club into administration in a dramatic intervention to tackle its mounting debts.



Lloyds Banking Group issued the ultimatum to the club’s shocked board as the only alternative after it initially rejected a “devastating” business plan based on swingeing cuts.

The Herald can today reveal the extent of the turmoil at Ibrox that has left Rangers under the control of its banker. Lloyds has placed Donald Muir, who helped rescue Northern Rock, on to the board as its representative.

It can also be revealed that Dave King, the Glasgow-born multi-millionaire and former investor in the club, now based in South Africa, is the leading contender to buy Rangers. He has opened negotiations but is having difficulties in striking a deal for the club.

It is believed the price the bank wants for Rangers is £30 million, equal to the club’s total debt.

Sources close to the club told The Herald last night: “The business plan from the bank will only do one thing – strangle the club slowly. A new owner is a must or else Rangers will be in dire straits on and off the pitch.

“The board tried to fight it as much as it could, but was told it would be placed into administration. The effects of the business plan will be devastating.

“Dave King wants to buy Rangers, and there are others expressing interest, but the bank wants a premium price of £1 for £1 in terms of the debt so nothing is imminent in terms of a deal.

“Its stance is surprising when, across the country, it is selling off assets at 25p, 30p or 40p to the pound in terms of debt.

“But because this is Rangers, it is obviously viewing it differently. Maybe it feels wealthy fans will let their hearts rule their heads, but all the while the club is now entering dangerous grounds.”

There is also interest from businessmen in the west of Scotland, who could combine to add their resources to those of Mr King, or make their own moves to buy Rangers.

Former chairman Sir David Murray, who remained majority shareholder after he stood down on August 26, is no longer involved in making key decisions.

Mr Muir, who was placed on the board of Rangers nine days ago at the bank’s insistence, is now effectively running the club.

He has been put in to oversee an immediate attempt to reduce debts, which would include the sale of star players over the coming months subject to the bank’s approval, with no replacements.

The bank’s plan was put to the Rangers board this month and shocked its members, including new chairman Alistair Johnston and chief executive Martin Bain, who believe the club has to be kept as attractive as possible to lure a new owner or investor.

The board refused to accept the business plan the bank put in front of them.

However, they were told that Rangers would be put into administration – which would probably allow the bank to recover its cash – if the plan was not accepted by Friday, October 16. Later that day, Mr Muir was confirmed as a board member.

In the aftermath of Saturday’s match against Hibernian, manager Walter Smith admitted the bank – which is 43% owned by the taxpayer and now controls the Bank of Scotland brand – was effectively in charge.

Lloyds Banking Group said at the weekend: “The bank continues to be very supportive of both the club and the board as they manage the business through the more difficult economic conditions currently prevailing.”

[mglancy23]

if they go into administration, thats a 10 point deduction :greengrin

2nd anyone :thumbsup::hnet:

[LancsHibs]

Poor lambs I will cry my eyes out if this is true:boo hoo::boo hoo::boo hoo::boo hoo::wink:

Maybe its time for the Queen to put her fingers in her purse, after all they her 11 aren't they?? Or maybe she doesn't give a fig:greengrin

[The_Todd]

This is so much better than anything happening at the PBS. I hate Hearts as our rivals, I just hate the Rankers full stop.

Big club my erse, they've been living well above their means for at least 20 years and this is the net result. If they hadn't spent money they didn't have there would be no "loyal" supporters cramming Greyskull every other week and that's a fact.

[Keith_M]

Hibs could actually help the Huns out here.

His Britannic Majesty, Mr Murray, has a steel business that's in deep financial DooDoo, as steel prices have plumetted. His club is also deep in DooDoo, being at least 30M in Debt. Hibs are looking for some cut-price steel to build the East Stand.....


Does anyone else see the possibilities here?

:hmmm:

[GloryGlory]

I was enjoying an old thread on swallowswallow entitled "could rangers end up bankrupt?" when it disappeared without trace. The fact that they feel they have to do that makes me think they must be truly cacking themselves and that their demise is a real possibility :thumbsup:.

Anyway, one page was preserved in my browser cache. This is the most interesting post on it IMHO:-

Re: could rangers end up bankrupt?
I don't post on here, but I do like to read the views. This is one subject where I think I can add something, so I will break my silence.

It is my opinion that Rangers are in real trouble with finance. Or more correctly, David Murray and MIH is.

I've seen MIH Accounts to 31 Jan 2008 and what follows is a brief summary of them. (The date is important when one considers the financial meltdown that 2008 has shown us).

1. The Group had net assets of £158m. This is an important figure in that it tells you what you own less what you owe. It represents what would be left over if all the companies liabilities were paid in the morning. While £158m seems healthy read on.

2. £800m of the companies assets include properties, rangers and land being developed (£250m). The accounts continuously state that the valuations are based on the directors estimates etc. How much has property dropped in the UK in the last 12 months? Being even more percise - how much has commercial property fallen by? If (say) its 20% then in reality (assuming all those estimates were bang on the money - the value of the assets are now £160m less. If this is the case then the net assets are now no longer +£158m but -£2m and the company is technically insolvent

3. You will note that Ibrox is included in the accounts at a valuation provided by a firm of Chartered Surveyors in Glasgow. From memory this valuation was £120m. While I am no expert in property prices in the Strathclyde region this (even at the height of the market) seems ambitious (read for ambitious, ludicrous).

4. Given that metal prices have collapsed in 2008 then the I have no doubt that the accounts at January 2009 would worry even the most bullish banker.

2009 will be a very interesting year to be a Rangers fan I think.
Last edited by Derek&Clive; 29-12-2008 at 04:43.

The same guy went on to say he thought Murray's company was £770m in debt before the credit crunch even bit and they were only able to service this debt by borrowing even more.
:bye::bye:


Although the debt of Rangers is stated as being £30M in the press, I seem to recall at one point in the recent past it was closer to £80M and Sir Minty simply did a bit of financial jiggery-pokery and transferred £50M around one of the other companies in the MIH group. His financial affairs are inter-related, Rangers FC being I think a subsidiary of his larger group of companies, all under the banner of Murray Intenational Holdings, so the Rangers debt of £30M is merely a part of a larger whole (or hole :wink:). If indeed MIH is insolvent, then the bank is probably looking to asset-strip as much as it can to get back at least some of its (or actually ours, the taxpayers!) money.

If Rangers with average gates over 40k, the lion's share of TV money and European football every year are on the verge of administration, what does that say about our Yam cousins, with average gates circa 15k, a smaller share of TV money, occasional European football and £40M debt? :devil:

[Scooter]

tick tock:faf:

[TheEastTerrace]

Some interesting articles in The Herald today re: Lloyds Bank and Rangers. Does not paint a pretty financial picture for the Huns. Makes magnificant reading as far as I'm concerned though :greengrin

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/revealed-banker-s-ultimatum-to-debt-hit-rangers-1.928574
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/spl/rangers/exclusive-the-board-v-the-bank-rangers-entire-first-team-squad-face-being-sold-to-the-highest-bidder-1.928477
http://www.heraldscotland.com/business/analysis/why-lloyds-called-doctor-to-revive-ailing-football-giant-1.928576

Was also great to see Hibs debt levels compare favourably to the other SPL clubs. Hearts are donald ducked at £30M in debt if a club as big as the Huns are in crisis at £20M in debt.

[WarringtonHibee]

Wouldn't mind the Huns getting put into administration and then getting docked points. :thumbsup:

How much is King worth? I'm hoping it's only £30,000,001.99p :wink:

[--------]

Some interesting articles in The Herald today re: Lloyds Bank and Rangers. Does not paint a pretty financial picture for the Huns. Makes magnificant reading as far as I'm concerned though :greengrin

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/revealed-banker-s-ultimatum-to-debt-hit-rangers-1.928574
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/spl/rangers/exclusive-the-board-v-the-bank-rangers-entire-first-team-squad-face-being-sold-to-the-highest-bidder-1.928477
http://www.heraldscotland.com/business/analysis/why-lloyds-called-doctor-to-revive-ailing-football-giant-1.928576

Was also great to see Hibs debt levels compare favourably to the other SPL clubs. Hearts are donald ducked at £30M in debt if a club as big as the Huns are in crisis at £20M in debt.


:devil: This is the one I like...

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/spl/rangers/exclusive-the-board-v-the-bank-rangers-entire-first-team-squad-face-being-sold-to-the-highest-bidder-1.928477

If McCoist and McDowall don't fancy managing Rangers in these circumstances, might I suggest that another of their old players, one Bobby "CineWorld" Williamson, might fit the bill for a couple of years - at least until they've got rid of all the high earners and stabilised their finances?

I'm sure STF and RP would be happy to act as consultants....

I hope we've been paid for Katie and Whittaker. :devil:

[chipmunk hibby]

I was reading about the Stickie's financial woes and the fact Lloyds Bank have put someone onto the Rankers Board to sort out the finances.

Apparently their debt is over £30 million and Uncle Wattie is not getting any sheckels to buy new players.

Shurely this means that the Yams are a much bigger club than the Stickies as their Debt is much higher and they have no financial worries at all. Maybe Vlad should be the one to go to Ibrox and join their board. He could explain the way Hertz handle their debt. Maybe the Huns can create some more shares and swap it for their own debt and make it go away??? Maybe just explain the Lloyds that they are trying to maintain this level of debt to avoid tax on profits?

How funny would it be to see Hertz and their manky cousins go into Administration in the same season? :greengrinwe could buy any of the gers players for a small amount of money and it would be hard for them to decline the offer because there in seirous debt right now!:devil:

[HibbyAndy]

Its a distinct possibity that the Huns could go into administration therefore forefeiting a 10 point deduction.

2nd anyone?

[lapsedhibee]

Hibs could actually help the Huns out here.

His Britannic Majesty, Mr Murray, has a steel business that's in deep financial DooDoo, as steel prices have plumetted. His club is also deep in DooDoo, being at least 30M in Debt. Hibs are looking for some cut-price steel to build the East Stand.....


Does anyone else see the possibilities here?

:hmmm:

We as taxpayers are in charge of the bank, the bank is in charge of Rongers: if we were to owe Rongers for some steel then it wouldn't really be debt because we'd owe the money to oursels! Excellent - order enough steel for a 400,000 seater East and a £51m hotel complex to go with it, and we never have to pay for any of it. :agree:

[Part/Time Supporter]

Some interesting articles in The Herald today re: Lloyds Bank and Rangers. Does not paint a pretty financial picture for the Huns. Makes magnificant reading as far as I'm concerned though :greengrin

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/revealed-banker-s-ultimatum-to-debt-hit-rangers-1.928574
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/spl/rangers/exclusive-the-board-v-the-bank-rangers-entire-first-team-squad-face-being-sold-to-the-highest-bidder-1.928477
http://www.heraldscotland.com/business/analysis/why-lloyds-called-doctor-to-revive-ailing-football-giant-1.928576

Was also great to see Hibs debt levels compare favourably to the other SPL clubs. Hearts are donald ducked at £30M in debt if a club as big as the Huns are in crisis at £20M in debt.

Yes and no. Huns are now being run by the bank because they are in that much debt and have no immediate prospect of fresh investment. Hearts are being run by Romanov, who owns most of their bank and investment firm. Like any other bank they are having to be far tighter in their lending practices, however, hence no new decent striker.

The odds of either club actually going into administration is fairly remote. The whole UKIO bank or the investment firm would need to go down to sink Hearts. The risk to Rangers is more immediate, but you've got to imagine that someone will bail them out (as McCann did with Celtic). Mind you, Murray's timing of trying to get out and find a new owner is pretty atrocious.

[--------]

:thumbsup:

Much better plan!!

Airdrie ****holes FC...

BH.


We could appoint George Peat as Honorary President, and how about THIS as a club mascot?

:devil:

http://coolest-homemade-costumes.shippony.com/images/misc/turds/making-halloween-costumes-01.jpg

[ancienthibby]

Yes and no. Huns are now being run by the bank because they are in that much debt and have no immediate prospect of fresh investment. Hearts are being run by Romanov, who owns most of their bank and investment firm. Like any other bank they are having to be far tighter in their lending practices, however, hence no new decent striker.

The odds of either club actually going into administration is fairly remote. The whole UKIO bank or the investment firm would need to go down to sink Hearts. The risk to Rangers is more immediate, but you've got to imagine that someone will bail them out (as McCann did with Celtic). Mind you, Murray's timing of trying to get out and find a new owner is pretty atrocious.

In time, I think we'll learn that the grey suits of the bank told him he had no choice and held the door open for him!!:devil:

Lloyds will now accept the offer that clears the debt to the greatest extent possible and the Murray empire will then take an absolute bath on their investment in RFC!!:greengrin

[cockneymike]

I'm no accountant, so a wee question to those that are?

Murray owns 90% of the shares - but the business owes £30m to the bank. Therefore is it a case that, if the bank says we want our £30m back, Murray just has to say yes to the first offer that can get that; or does he have much flexibility on to whom he says yes?

Or is it all just a feature of how the debt is structured?
Or is down to how the operating costs match up to the operating revs - and therefore the confidence that the bank has in Murrray's running of the club?
Or a bit of a mix of the above?

[--------]

I'm no accountant, so a wee question to those that are?

Murray owns 90% of the shares - but the business owes £30m to the bank. Therefore is it a case that, if the bank says we want our £30m back, Murray just has to say yes to the first offer that can get that; or does he have much flexibility on to whom he says yes?

Or is it all just a feature of how the debt is structured?
Or is down to how the operating costs match up to the operating revs - and therefore the confidence that the bank has in Murrray's running of the club?
Or a bit of a mix of the above?


I may be wrong here (memory eroding by the day) but IIRC the transfers of Andy Goram to Rangers and John Collins to Celtic were both put through at the insistence of the bank who were controlling Hibs after the Mercer take-over bid. I think the fees were needed to stabilise the club finances, and we were given little or no choice in the matter.

Banks tend to be interested in only two things - the dividends paid to their investors, and the bonuses paid to the directors when the dividends are good.

[steakbake]

Someone on the radio on saturday made the point that the OF made their millions while in a Scottish league. So clearly, it is possible for them to make the money in such a "limited" environment as they see it.

Like many things, its what you do with it that counts. I think Rangers have had many years of buying total duds, paying inflated salaries etc. Its a lesson many scottish clubs have had to learn, not least our own.

I cannot imagine for one minute though, that Rangers will be 'allowed' to go bust, though that would be pretty amusing.

[--------]

Someone on the radio on saturday made the point that the OF made their millions while in a Scottish league. So clearly, it is possible for them to make the money in such a "limited" environment as they see it.

Like many things, its what you do with it that counts. I think Rangers have had many years of buying total duds, paying inflated salaries etc. Its a lesson many scottish clubs have had to learn, not least our own.

I cannot imagine for one minute though, that Rangers will be 'allowed' to go bust, though that would be pretty amusing.


:agree: I'd say that there are plenty of blue-nosed busnessmen around Scotland and the world who'll step in sooner or later to bail them out.

Best we can hope for is a few years of financial strain at Greyskull before they bounce back, unfortunately.

The phrase "striking while the iron's hot" comes to mind.... :cool2:

[bobbyhibs1983]

Hibs could actually help the Huns out here.

His Britannic Majesty, Mr Murray, has a steel business that's in deep financial DooDoo, as steel prices have plumetted. His club is also deep in DooDoo, being at least 30M in Debt. Hibs are looking for some cut-price steel to build the East Stand.....


Does anyone else see the possibilities here?

:hmmm:





would you trust buying anything from him /his company though?
Be like buing something of del boy me thinks, but to be fair i think i d trust del boy alot more :greengrin

[RIP]

Vladimir Romanov making a bid for Rangers anyone?

[TheEastTerrace]

Yes and no. Huns are now being run by the bank because they are in that much debt and have no immediate prospect of fresh investment. Hearts are being run by Romanov, who owns most of their bank and investment firm. Like any other bank they are having to be far tighter in their lending practices, however, hence no new decent striker.

The odds of either club actually going into administration is fairly remote. The whole UKIO bank or the investment firm would need to go down to sink Hearts. The risk to Rangers is more immediate, but you've got to imagine that someone will bail them out (as McCann did with Celtic). Mind you, Murray's timing of trying to get out and find a new owner is pretty atrocious.

I pretty much agree with that fact that neither will end up being in administration. I just love the fact that the two clubs I cannot bear the most in this world are up to their eyes in debt with asset stripping their squads a reality for both.

As far as Murray goes, I think it is no secret that MIM has suffered massive losses in the value of the company and their assets. I don't think he had any choice but to sell Rangers. They'll probably find a Hun with deep pockets, but I suspect it will be taken over with preservation of the club in mind, not with the intention of restoring Rangers back to the glory years of the late 80s and 1990s. There's just no incentive to do so now that Scottish football clubs do not generate the same levels of income and revenues as other European clubs and leagues. In fact, the whole 'we want out of Scotland' push and media spin is now making much more sense in light of the weekend's news about Rangers finances.

[WeAreHibs]

Don't think Dave King will be buying the club -

LINK (http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/scottish/scottish_news/512071/Dave-King-has-been-subject-of-court-order-that-froze-club-shares.html)

Rumours are that he's in the doo doo in South Africa

[proud_and_green]

Revealed: banker’s ultimatum to debt-hit Rangers


It is believed the price the bank wants for Rangers is £30 million, equal to the club’s total debt.
Sources close to the club told The Herald last night: “The business plan from the bank will only do one thing – strangle the club slowly. A new owner is a must or else Rangers will be in dire straits on and off the pitch.



The valuation is incredible, this presumably means that Rangers without debt are worth the square root of bugger all!!

[proud_and_green]

Revealed: banker’s ultimatum to debt-hit Rangers


It is believed the price the bank wants for Rangers is £30 million, equal to the club’s total debt.
Sources close to the club told The Herald last night: “The business plan from the bank will only do one thing – strangle the club slowly. A new owner is a must or else Rangers will be in dire straits on and off the pitch.



The valuation is incredible, this presumably means that Rangers without debt are worth the square root of bugger all!!


Actually having thought about it for more than 2 seconds, it presumably means they are worth £60m - assuming the bank write off the debt with the sale!

[Moody Mulder]

what about the £1 billion investment that was to regenerate the ibrox area and lead to 1000s of jobs? was that just the usual p!sh spouted in the weedgie press?

[TheEastTerrace]

what about the £1 billion investment that was to regenerate the ibrox area and lead to 1000s of jobs? was that just the usual p!sh spouted in the weedgie press?

Murray's PR machine working overtime.

[jacomo]

:agree: I'd say that there are plenty of blue-nosed busnessmen around Scotland and the world who'll step in sooner or later to bail them out.
Best we can hope for is a few years of financial strain at Greyskull before they bounce back, unfortunately.

The phrase "striking while the iron's hot" comes to mind.... :cool2:

What's stopping them? Rangers have been for sale for years, Murray even put together a £50m share issue to attract investment - and no one was interested.

I think the true scale of Rangers' financial problems are unclear, and no one will put money in until they are resolved. This points to a lot more pain down Govan way before things improve.

I can't believe Vlad is letting Rangers take all the headlines though. It's time for him to initiate project "Endgame" at Tynie, too.

[Part/Time Supporter]

Revealed: banker’s ultimatum to debt-hit Rangers


It is believed the price the bank wants for Rangers is £30 million, equal to the club’s total debt.
Sources close to the club told The Herald last night: “The business plan from the bank will only do one thing – strangle the club slowly. A new owner is a must or else Rangers will be in dire straits on and off the pitch.



The valuation is incredible, this presumably means that Rangers without debt are worth the square root of bugger all!!

No, it just means that the bank are expecting to get back all the money they have lent to Rangers. Sometimes when there is a takeover the buyer will negotiate with the creditors to get them to take a discount on the amounts owed to them to ensure the continued operation of the business. The bank must be confident that somebody will take the Huns over and be prepared to settle their debt in full.

Anyone who takes over Rangers will have to pay Murray whatever it is he is looking for plus the £30M to Lloyds/HBOS.

[steakbake]

The more you read about it, the more it seems they are up the creek. Perhaps more worrying/amusing than the hearts situation.

[MSK]

What's stopping them? Rangers have been for sale for years, Murray even put together a £50m share issue to attract investment - and no one was interested.

I think the true scale of Rangers' financial problems are unclear, and no one will put money in until they are resolved. This points to a lot more pain down Govan way before things improve.

I can't believe Vlad is letting Rangers take all the headlines though. It's time for him to initiate project "Endgame" at Tynie, too.Vlad wont be out done on this..yams may be biting their fingernails & have squeaky bum moments but im sure Vlad will be on to appease the masses soon with another exclusive ..perhaps offering a free donkey ride for every yam who hires a deck chair at Porty beach ..

[ancienthibby]

No, it just means that the bank are expecting to get back all the money they have lent to Rangers. Sometimes when there is a takeover the buyer will negotiate with the creditors to get them to take a discount on the amounts owed to them to ensure the continued operation of the business. The bank must be confident that somebody will take the Huns over and be prepared to settle their debt in full.

Anyone who takes over Rangers will have to pay Murray whatever it is he is looking for plus the £30M to Lloyds/HBOS.

Utter garbage.

Any buyer who surfaces will offer the Bank 50p in the £ maybe, then he'll offer Murray £1 for his shareholding, or maybe £1 million, but let's be clear about this: the buyer holds all the aces and he will call all the shots!!:wink:

[down-the-slope]

The thing that seems to be getting missed here is that Rangers are worth a fairly large amount (the £120 million may not be far wrong)

However true current value is the net of this via liabilities....the scale of these is very unclear. Yes the bank are owed £30million ish.

But how much is still owed on previous transfers (Davis / Mendes / Bouggerah (sp) etc etc) to other clubs

To say nothing of the liaablity involved in remaining employee contracts. How much would the total value of all the remaining years on all the current squad and other employee contracts..Millions and Millions which are legally binding and can't be broken without consesnt (pay off) and will need to be taken on by new owner.

I'm sure there are those out there with deep pockets of a blue persuasion...but why put money into the hole now when you could wait (and Rangers get in a bigger mess) until these contracts run down so the money you put in will actually go to rebuilding and not to line the pockets of the duds currently on show.

[Andy74]

[/B]Utter garbage.

Any buyer who surfaces will offer the Bank 50p in the £ maybe, then he'll offer Murray £1 for his shareholding, or maybe £1 million, but let's be clear about this: the buyer holds all the aces and he will call all the shots!!:wink:

I'd think the buyer would have to pay back the bank the full £30m but that would value the club probably at a token £1 or so to purchase.

It depends what the assets are valued at, someone said Ibrox was valued as comercial property of up to £120m! If that still apllies, which I doubt, then a few million on top of the debt amount would be about right taking itno consideration contracts and other liabilities.

Why would the bank accept less? If no buyer is found they would liquidate and sell the assets surely, getting their £30m back. I'm not aware of any other creditors that would get in before them.

Am I missing something?

[ancient hibee]

Revealed: banker’s ultimatum to debt-hit Rangers


It is believed the price the bank wants for Rangers is £30 million, equal to the club’s total debt.
Sources close to the club told The Herald last night: “The business plan from the bank will only do one thing – strangle the club slowly. A new owner is a must or else Rangers will be in dire straits on and off the pitch.



The valuation is incredible, this presumably means that Rangers without debt are worth the square root of bugger all!!
Don't the papers print a load of guff.Any money from a sale of Rangers will of course go to the shareholders who can sell for whatever they want-all the bank can do is demand repayment from Rangers.The whole story is rubbish anyway.Surely nobody thinks that Lloyds are worrying about £30Million after all they recently wrote off £8BILLION of loans.What they are trying to do is publicly whip Sir David into line to encourage some other borrowers to get cracking on repayments.

[Andy74]

Don't the papers print a load of guff.Any money from a sale of Rangers will of course go to the shareholders who can sell for whatever they want-all the bank can do is demand repayment from Rangers.The whole story is rubbish anyway.Surely nobody thinks that Lloyds are worrying about £30Million after all they recently wrote off £8BILLION of loans.What they are trying to do is publicly whip Sir David into line to encourage some other borrowers to get cracking on repayments.

For £30m quid it's quite normal still to worry about it and put in place a Board member to ensure that you get to okay all further coming and goings money wise.

[ancienthibby]

Don't the papers print a load of guff.Any money from a sale of Rangers will of course go to the shareholders who can sell for whatever they want-all the bank can do is demand repayment from Rangers.The whole story is rubbish anyway.Surely nobody thinks that Lloyds are worrying about £30Million after all they recently wrote off £8BILLION of loans.What they are trying to do is publicly whip Sir David into line to encourage some other borrowers to get cracking on repayments.


:faf::faf::faf::faf::faf::faf::faf::faf::faf::faf:

[poolman]

Revealed: banker’s ultimatum to debt-hit Rangers


It is believed the price the bank wants for Rangers is £30 million, equal to the club’s total debt.
Sources close to the club told The Herald last night: “The business plan from the bank will only do one thing – strangle the club slowly. A new owner is a must or else Rangers will be in dire straits on and off the pitch.



The valuation is incredible, this presumably means that Rangers without debt are worth the square root of bugger all!!


Any team daft enough (Gers) to fork out £12m for Tore Andre Flop deserves to go under :agree:

[Shaggy]

4. Given that metal prices have collapsed in 2008 then the I have no doubt that the accounts at January 2009 would worry even the most bullish banker.

:

If that is the case,good news!!!!
surely the price of raw materials for our new stand must be down as well !!??

Petrie get in there and pick the bones please.:greengrin

[CentreLine]

[/B]Utter garbage.

Any buyer who surfaces will offer the Bank 50p in the £ maybe, then he'll offer Murray £1 for his shareholding, or maybe £1 million, but let's be clear about this: the buyer holds all the aces and he will call all the shots!!:wink:

This appears to be where the fella King is coming from. The article in the Herald suggests he is whinging because the bank are being unreasonable wanting back all the money rangers have borrowd.
I take the point about a buyer for a business that is insolvent. The thing about rangers is that they have enough assets to clear their debts (just). So the bank are getting in there and want the lot. They do not have to settle for 25p in the £1 and can put the club in to admintstration if they are not forthcoming. And quite right too IMHO. So, its a case of find a buyer or start to sell players and assets.
Did I hear Chick Young say on Saturday that the groundsman from Ibrox has gone to Partick Thistle because the wages on offer were better there?

[sleeping giant]

we could buy any of the gers players for a small amount of money and it would be hard for them to decline the offer because there in seirous debt right now!:devil:

I would love us to make a cheeky bid for any of their players just to upset them:greengrin

[ancienthibby]

This appears to be where the fella King is coming from. The article in the Herald suggests he is whinging because the bank are being unreasonable wanting back all the money rangers have borrowd.
I take the point about a buyer for a business that is insolvent. The thing about rangers is that they have enough assets to clear their debts (just). So the bank are getting in there and want the lot. They do not have to settle for 25p in the £1 and can put the club in to admintstration if they are not forthcoming. And quite right too IMHO. So, its a case of find a buyer or start to sell players and assets.
Did I hear Chick Young say on Saturday that the groundsman from Ibrox has gone to Partick Thistle because the wages on offer were better there?

You did indeed and, if nothing else that should surely underline, to the naive posters on here, just how deep in the doo-doo the Greyskullers are!:agree:

[ancient hibee]

You did indeed and, if nothing else that should surely underline, to the naive posters on here, just how deep in the doo-doo the Greyskullers are!:agree:
That's because it's a more difficult job as they have to cater for Glasgow Rugby also.

[greenlex]

You did indeed and, if nothing else that should surely underline, to the naive posters on here, just how deep in the doo-doo the Greyskullers are!:agree:


That's because it's a more difficult job as they have to cater for Glasgow Rugby also.
You are a couple of wise gentlmen.:agree: Ancient, but wise. :agree:

Woo hoo my smilies are back!!:partyhibb God I missed them. :thumbsup:

[ancienthibby]

That's because it's a more difficult job as they have to cater for Glasgow Rugby also.

Glasgow Rugby play at Firhill :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

But do not let that dissuade you!!

You are clearly on a roll here!!:greengrin

[ancient hibee]

Glasgow Rugby play at Firhill :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

But do not let that dissuade you!!

You are clearly on a roll here!!:greengrin

So do Partick Thistle the last time I heard -so you know what you can do with the roll:greengrin

[therealgavmac]

My boss ( a bluenose ) has just called me in the office saying its been on the radio that the Huns may go into administration this evening! :thumbsup:

Is he winding me up - or is there any truth in this? :woohoo:

[Golden Bear]

My boss ( a bluenose ) has just called me in the office saying its been on the radio that the Huns may go into administration this evening! :thumbsup:

Is he winding me up - or is there any truth in this? :woohoo:


"Winding up" ! - very good!

:greengrin

[HibbyAndy]

My boss ( a bluenose ) has just called me in the office saying its been on the radio that the Huns may go into administration this evening! :thumbsup:

Is he winding me up - or is there any truth in this? :woohoo:

Could he no have just told you?

[therealgavmac]

Could he no have just told you?

I'm stuck in the office and he's on the road home! Luxury of being the CEO - git!

[therealgavmac]

"Winding up" ! - very good!

:greengrin

Not meant but I'll take the credit - thanx :thumbsup:

[--------]

What's stopping them? Rangers have been for sale for years, Murray even put together a £50m share issue to attract investment - and no one was interested.

I think the true scale of Rangers' financial problems are unclear, and no one will put money in until they are resolved. This points to a lot more pain down Govan way before things improve.

I can't believe Vlad is letting Rangers take all the headlines though. It's time for him to initiate project "Endgame" at Tynie, too.


I did say 'sooner or later'. If it was Dundee or Livingston or Airdrie I could see them going to the wall. Rangers, no. When it comes to the real crunch, there'll be some sort of rescue package.

[ancienthibby]

[QUOTE=ancient hibee;2219147]So do Partick Thistle the last time I heard -so you know what you can do with the roll:greengrin[/QUOTE

Whatever it is that you are on, man, I hope you have taken out a patent on it!!:devil:

[matty_f]

It will be interesting how many of their fans choose to 'follow, follow' them once they've nae chance of winning anything.

Have to say, if I was in charge of the purse-strings at Celtc, I'd be spending a fair wedge in January to capitalise on the weakness. If Celtc play their cards right, they could be out of sight of Rangers for years and years to come.

[truehibernian]

Watch whatever "support" they had down south run for the hills now that the real finances are revealed. Rangers haven't "outgrown" Scottish football.......Scottish football have actually been their lifeblood. How many other leagues could they have had the duopoly with another club, had guaranteed Champions League football and its millions, and "control" of the media and governing bodies/representatives. Their problems are their own making. Hugely costly contracts (PLG, Advocaat, Smith, Souness), bad bad transfers (Tore Andre Flo, Bo Anderson, Rozental), and a complete lack of youth investment and youths introduced to the system. Murray Park is a facility only of use to their first team squad. Any promising youngster (before now) would hopefully always look away from the blinding floodlights of Ibrox and realise that their football dream was better served in a lesser team such as Hibs, Dundee Utd, Aberdeen. Let's see if their support really are "the people" and bail out their bigotted club. Very very much doubt it. I am laughing apples at their plight/demise/hardship/comedy value :thumbsup:

[NGP]

Rangers won't go to the wall. The biggest difference between them and the Yams is the assets of each club. Ibrox, players and Murray Park togther are worth more than what the Huns owe the bank - thus people will be more likely to invest as the assets will cover any losses if it came to the crunch (their income is also much much bigger than the Yams). In Yamland their assets are nothing like the value of the debt - so if they go under, they will not have enough to sell to pay the debt (which will be well over £40m in the next set of financial results).

[EH6 Hibby]

Does this mean there has been an offer made? I can't work it out! :confused:

http://www.londonstockexchange.com/exchange/prices-and-news/news/market-news/market-news-detail.html?announcementId=10247145

[matty_f]

Does this mean there has been an offer made? I can't work it out! :confused:

http://www.londonstockexchange.com/exchange/prices-and-news/news/market-news/market-news-detail.html?announcementId=10247145

No, I think it's confirming the speculation that tentative discussions have been held, but it's clear that there is as good a chance of nothing happening, as something happening.

[matty_f]

Just been on ebay trying to get a Mickey Mouse outfit for the kids' Halloween. Turns out I'm two minutes away from owning Rangers...

[HibbyAndy]

Just been on ebay trying to get a Mickey Mouse outfit for the kids' Halloween. Turns out I'm two minutes away from owning Rangers...

:hilarious

[PaulSmith]

http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/sport/display.var.2533188.0.0.php

[Part/Time Supporter]

Does this mean there has been an offer made? I can't work it out! :confused:

http://www.londonstockexchange.com/exchange/prices-and-news/news/market-news/market-news-detail.html?announcementId=10247145

No. It's just Murray responding to the media speculation to confirm publicly that he is looking to sell Rangers (which we already knew anyway). The reason for the statement is to confirm that they will abide by LSE rules re advising shareholders when an offer is made, implicitly admitting that no unconditional offer has been made.

Of course, this means that it is possible (if not probable) that conditional offers have been made. ie Dave King has offered to take Murray's shares on the condition that the bank don't get all their money back. No doubt that would in turn make the bank rather jumpy, hence the appointment of a director to represent their interests.

[Jack]

They have been up for sale for 4 years and no one has made an offer.
During that time they have highly publicised bigotfests around Europe reaching the dizzy heights of the Battle of Manchester.
And folk wonder why there are no buyers.

[bingo70]

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/1658/horsem.jpg

[ronaldo7]

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/1658/horsem.jpg

:top marks:faf:

[wazoo1875]

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/1658/horsem.jpg
:thumbsup:

Quality, Beans:greengrin

[therealgavmac]

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/1658/horsem.jpg

Genius! :faf: :not worth

[MrSmith]

absolute genius! :thumbsup:

[ScottB]

What annoyed me was that muppet Jim Murphy personally speaking to the Lloyds about the importance of the future of Rangers.

Nonsense.

They should be allowed to hit the wall like all the other clubs have. If it had been Killie or Hamilton would he give a toss? Perhaps a spell in adminstration would teach Rantic the reality of the world today.

[MyJo]

did anyone else see the news this morning where they interviewed huns about the state thier in, i actually sat open mouthed as this tube said "aye i'm worried because if rangers go then celtic go and aw the rest of them will go as well and that'll be the end of football in scotland!!!"
even now the arrogance and self-importance of these cretins is astonishing..to actually think that scottish football and all the clubs in the SPL rely on them to survive is hilarious and utterly deluded

[Caversham Green]

A few points taken from Rangers accounts for the year ended 30 June 2008.

Properties were valued in the balance sheet at £121.8m. The normal way of valuing football stadia is replacement cost – i.e. how much it would cost to rebuild if they had to start from scratch. In Rangers case the directors have added a couple of million to the surveyor’s valuation from 2006 and they call it “recoverable amount”. The point here is that the valuation is not necessarily what they could actually sell it for – the market for large football stadia is very limited. Recent history has shown that for the likes of ER, PBS and Love Street the land value for development is greater than the balance sheet valuation, but I very much doubt if that’s the case with Ibrox and Murray Park. I can’t see them getting anything like £120m for the development land and no-one else is going to buy them for their current use unless on a sale and leaseback arrangement.

Turnover was £64.4m, profit before player sales £0.6m, gains on player sales £7.7m

They spent £18m on players – that’s more than the combined gross turnovers of Hibs and Hearts.

Net asset value £79m – this is total asset less liabilities but is subject to the property valuation comments above.

Net debt £21.5m (on the same date Hearts net debt was around double that amount.)

On the question of administration, Rangers and Hearts are in rather different positions. Rangers can and will trade out of their difficulties, albeit at the short-term expense of their football results. Their major threat is that their current owner goes into administration at which point the administrator will decide how best to deal with the asset that is the shares in RFC. This is what happened to Southampton and they suffered a 10 point penalty so presumably Rangers would do the same. I think the possibility of Rangers suffering this is quite remote as there is plenty of scope for taking action before it happens.

In Hearts case the original investment by the owners is already lost and there is little reasonable hope of recovering it – they don’t have enough turnover or assets and they have already effectively written off £12m. Moreover, on the latest available evidence they are costing their owner a further considerable amount of money on a daily basis so there is a strong business case for cutting their losses through administration. However, it boils down to how much their owner wants to maintain his interest in the club. Of course they do also have the threat of the owner going bust as with Rangers.

As I’ve said before, I think in Hearts case administration could actually be beneficial for both owner and club (although I don’t have enough information to know for certain) and if I was advising them I would suggest it as an avenue they should be exploring.

[--------]

What annoyed me was that muppet Jim Murphy personally speaking to the Lloyds about the importance of the future of Rangers.

Nonsense.

They should be allowed to hit the wall like all the other clubs have. If it had been Killie or Hamilton would he give a toss? Perhaps a spell in adminstration would teach Rantic the reality of the world today.


Votes, mate, votes.

It has been said (not by me, of course :devil: ) that you could put a red rosette on a monkey and the Glasgow/West of Scotland voters would elect it to Westminster - or Holyrood, come to that.

Or even to North Lanarkshire Council.... :rolleyes:

However, nowadays the natives are getting a wee bit restless and Jimbo has to make it absolutely clear to everyone in his constituency (and all the other monkeys' - sorry, Labour MPs' constituencies) that he has his priorities right.

Never mind stabbings in Paisley or folks worried sick about uneployment and their mortgages - Save the 'Gers and Re-Elect Fat Gordo's Gang.

You know it makes sense..... :wink:

[ScottB]

Votes, mate, votes.

It has been said (not by me, of course :devil: ) that you could put a red rosette on a monkey and the Glasgow/West of Scotland voters would elect it to Westminster - or Holyrood, come to that.

Or even to North Lanarkshire Council.... :rolleyes:

However, nowadays the natives are getting a wee bit restless and Jimbo has to make it absolutely clear to everyone in his constituency (and all the other monkeys' - sorry, Labour MPs' constituencies) that he has his priorities right.

Never mind stabbings in Paisley or folks worried sick about uneployment and their mortgages - Save the 'Gers and Re-Elect Fat Gordo's Gang.

You know it makes sense..... :wink:

Indeed, I suggested as much in another thread. What with the SNP inroads in Glasgow it makes sense for them.

Though would probably lose them a ton of votes elsewhere, particularly England if they were to spend millions bailing out Rangers.

[JackRegan]

What actually gets me in this whole affair is the stance taken by the media and politicians, when I compare it to how they reacted in 1993/94 when Celtic nearly went to the wall.

Its Murray's fault and even a former director, Hugh Adam foretold this in a Scotsman interview in 2002.

Yet according to the press, its all the fault of the big bad banks. Even that tit Cameron on Real Radio, would not allow discourse on how much the huns depend on the Murray parent company - they have to repay £410m by January 2010 according to their accounts. MIH and Murray's ego have been the root cause of it all. Us in Timland have seen this coming for about 6 or 7 years now - we have looked at the MIH accounts and have a better idea as to whats going on than thelikes of Murray's poodles.

Where are the cracked crests? Where is the ridicule of Murray's 70,000 seater stadium plan as shown in the Sunday Mail last year??

Also they can forget Dave King - His Rangers shares were frozen 18 months ago (as are ALL his assets), he is on 322 fraud charges in sOuth Africa and had his passport revoked.

But hey according to the Herald, no-one - espcially us Tims should indulge in a bit of shaudenfraude. SOrry, but I love the huns being in turmoil, if they went under I'd drink until my face went numb.

[lapsedhibee]

But hey according to the Herald, no-one - espcially us Tims should indulge in a bit of shaudenfraude. SOrry, but I love the huns being in turmoil, if they went under I'd drink until my face went numb.

Don't you think you'd suffer if they went under, in that a lot of Tims would drift away if there were no interclub folk song type rivalry to engage in?

[ScottB]

What actually gets me in this whole affair is the stance taken by the media and politicians, when I compare it to how they reacted in 1993/94 when Celtic nearly went to the wall.

Its Murray's fault and even a former director, Hugh Adam foretold this in a Scotsman interview in 2002.

Yet according to the press, its all the fault of the big bad banks. Even that tit Cameron on Real Radio, would not allow discourse on how much the huns depend on the Murray parent company - they have to repay £410m by January 2010 according to their accounts. MIH and Murray's ego have been the root cause of it all. Us in Timland have seen this coming for about 6 or 7 years now - we have looked at the MIH accounts and have a better idea as to whats going on than thelikes of Murray's poodles.

Where are the cracked crests? Where is the ridicule of Murray's 70,000 seater stadium plan as shown in the Sunday Mail last year??

Also they can forget Dave King - His Rangers shares were frozen 18 months ago (as are ALL his assets), he is on 322 fraud charges in sOuth Africa and had his passport revoked.

But hey according to the Herald, no-one - espcially us Tims should indulge in a bit of shaudenfraude. SOrry, but I love the huns being in turmoil, if they went under I'd drink until my face went numb.

Plenty businesses, most notably the US car industry, have used the credit crunch / recession etc to mask the fact they've been circling the drain for years.

Don't see Rangers as being any different in this case.

[JackRegan]

Don't you think you'd suffer if they went under, in that a lot of Tims would drift away if there were no interclub folk song type rivalry to engage in?

Losing fans like this would be an added bonus. :wink:

[TheEastTerrace]

What actually gets me in this whole affair is the stance taken by the media and politicians, when I compare it to how they reacted in 1993/94 when Celtic nearly went to the wall.

Its Murray's fault and even a former director, Hugh Adam foretold this in a Scotsman interview in 2002.

Yet according to the press, its all the fault of the big bad banks. Even that tit Cameron on Real Radio, would not allow discourse on how much the huns depend on the Murray parent company - they have to repay £410m by January 2010 according to their accounts. MIH and Murray's ego have been the root cause of it all. Us in Timland have seen this coming for about 6 or 7 years now - we have looked at the MIH accounts and have a better idea as to whats going on than thelikes of Murray's poodles.

Where are the cracked crests? Where is the ridicule of Murray's 70,000 seater stadium plan as shown in the Sunday Mail last year??

Also they can forget Dave King - His Rangers shares were frozen 18 months ago (as are ALL his assets), he is on 322 fraud charges in sOuth Africa and had his passport revoked.

But hey according to the Herald, no-one - espcially us Tims should indulge in a bit of shaudenfraude. SOrry, but I love the huns being in turmoil, if they went under I'd drink until my face went numb.

I have to say that I was mighty brassed off when I read The Herald today. Only Glasgow Rangers could evoke MSP criticism of the banks for trying to reign in their debt and force the club to deal with the issue by selling off their valuable assets to generate income to service the debt. Absolutely reeks as far as I'm concerned. They are a business that has grossly spent outwith its means over the years, in some cases without economic rationale, and it is only right that the bank intervene to make sure the club are taking measures to reduce the debt.

Where were the MSPs when the likes of Airdrie, Clydebank, Motherwell, Dundee, etc experienced such financial problems that have susebquently lead to administration or closure?? Forgive me if I have missed the front page headlines calling for leniency from their creditors.

[JackRegan]

I have to say that I was mighty brassed off when I read The Herald today. Only Glasgow Rangers could evoke MSP criticism of the banks for trying to reign in their debt and force the club to deal with the issue by selling off their valuable assets to generate income to service the debt. Absolutely reeks as far as I'm concerned. They are a business that has grossly spent outwith its means over the years, in some cases without economic rationale, and it is only right that the bank intervene to make sure the club are taking measures to reduce the debt.

Where were the MSPs when the likes of Airdrie, Clydebank, Motherwell, Dundee, etc experienced such financial problems that have susebquently lead to administration or closure?? Forgive me if I have missed the front page headlines calling for leniency from their creditors.

It was actually Rangers, in chasing Airdrie for 30 grand in gate money, that forced the banks hand there.

Also remember how Rangers used the state of Dundee to get Kishinisvilli, Novo, Cannigia and Rae for peanuts.

When Celtic neraly folded the Daily Record sent a hearse to Kerrydale St., The Sun had a Gravestone on our front page, even Fergus McCann, the guy who helped save us was compared to Saddam Hussein on the DR front page. We were also told how our share issue would flop, how the stadium would never be built, let alone filled and how the huns would never be toppled.

Even when wer were saved and had to play at Hampden for a year (which we paid £1.5m in rent for), the press were up in arms about this. Fast forward to 2002 and Murray getting Ibrox valued at £120m to avoid tehm from being insolvent (even though, technically they were). Not a peep in the press. Nada.

I also don't remember the Scottish Press being to warm to your plight in the Summer of 1990.

Not even Celtic's local MP, David Marshall, said a word.

[ancient hibee]

Ah Fergus McCann-the most important man at Parkhead in the last 20 years.Loathed and detested by his own supporters-booed at the ground-ungrateful sods-that's why we think so highly of you all..

[--------]

Ah Fergus McCann-the most important man at Parkhead in the last 20 years.Loathed and detested by his own supporters-booed at the ground-ungrateful sods-that's why we think so highly of you all..



Whereas Rod Petrie and STF have been universally revered and respected by us lot for their prudent stewardship of the good ship 'Hibernian'? :cool2:

[TheEastTerrace]

It was actually Rangers, in chasing Airdrie for 30 grand in gate money, that forced the banks hand there.

Also remember how Rangers used the state of Dundee to get Kishinisvilli, Novo, Cannigia and Rae for peanuts.

When Celtic neraly folded the Daily Record sent a hearse to Kerrydale St., The Sun had a Gravestone on our front page, even Fergus McCann, the guy who helped save us was compared to Saddam Hussein on the DR front page. We were also told how our share issue would flop, how the stadium would never be built, let alone filled and how the huns would never be toppled.

Even when wer were saved and had to play at Hampden for a year (which we paid £1.5m in rent for), the press were up in arms about this. Fast forward to 2002 and Murray getting Ibrox valued at £120m to avoid tehm from being insolvent (even though, technically they were). Not a peep in the press. Nada.

I also don't remember the Scottish Press being to warm to your plight in the Summer of 1990.

Not even Celtic's local MP, David Marshall, said a word.

Well, the actions of the Daily Record don't surprise me. You'll probably be aware how poorly their so called journos are regarded on here. It's a rag that I've never ever purchased, nor am I ever likely to.

I was possibly too young to remember the press coverage when Hands Off Hibs was running, but when I think about it, the Evening News was the only paper I read about getting behind it.

I agree with the point in your first post about the media indicating that we should not be revelling in Rangers' off the field issues. **** that, I've been waiting over 20 years for these times :greengrin

[TheEastTerrace]

Whereas Rod Petrie and STF have been universally revered and respected by us lot for their prudent stewardship of the good ship 'Hibernian'? :cool2:

Touche :greengrin

I have to admit that I have never revelled in RP's financial prudence since the late 1990s and was dead against the sale of such talented players. However, the light at the end of the tunnel is not far off for the Hibees and I now concede that the tashman saw the long term vision of the club, where we are now trading sustainably and within our means before spending more on improving the playing staff.

[matty_f]

It was actually Rangers, in chasing Airdrie for 30 grand in gate money, that forced the banks hand there.

Also remember how Rangers used the state of Dundee to get Kishinisvilli, Novo, Cannigia and Rae for peanuts.

When Celtic neraly folded the Daily Record sent a hearse to Kerrydale St., The Sun had a Gravestone on our front page, even Fergus McCann, the guy who helped save us was compared to Saddam Hussein on the DR front page. We were also told how our share issue would flop, how the stadium would never be built, let alone filled and how the huns would never be toppled.

Even when wer were saved and had to play at Hampden for a year (which we paid £1.5m in rent for), the press were up in arms about this. Fast forward to 2002 and Murray getting Ibrox valued at £120m to avoid tehm from being insolvent (even though, technically they were). Not a peep in the press. Nada.

I also don't remember the Scottish Press being to warm to your plight in the Summer of 1990.

Not even Celtic's local MP, David Marshall, said a word.

Maybe they learned their lesson after McCann's success in turning Celtc around - they probably don't want to end up with egg on their face again. They ripped the Yams about their finances and unfortunately they are still kicking around, so maybe it's just a case of the press not wanting to wade in too early...:fibber:

[Andy74]

Ah Fergus McCann-the most important man at Parkhead in the last 20 years.Loathed and detested by his own supporters-booed at the ground-ungrateful sods-that's why we think so highly of you all..

Ahem, the almost universal stick I've taken on here until very, very recently for daring to support the policies of Rod and the Board!

[matty_f]

Ahem, the almost universal stick I've taken on here until very, very recently for daring to support the policies of Rod and the Board!

:agree: Likewise. Happy clapper, anyone?

[JackRegan]

Ah Fergus McCann-the most important man at Parkhead in the last 20 years.Loathed and detested by his own supporters-booed at the ground-ungrateful sods-that's why we think so highly of you all..

Very economical with the truth there.

There were very few fans actually booing McCann, those who did, were simply dillards who fell for the concerted media campaign that was waged against him that summer, follwoing the departure of Wim Jansen.

McCann is by and large regarded as a hero among the support.

[Ritchie]

Borrow, borrow, we will borrow millions
anywhere everywhere we will borrow on
dundee hamilton we'd even tap the vatican
if we go to dublin we will borrow on

for theres not a bank like the bank of scotland
no not one and there never shall be one
the bank manager knows all about our troubles
he's waiting for £30m and we cannot give him none
for theres not a bank like the bank of scotland
no not one and there never shall be one


A Loan, A Loan!
We need some money soon

A Loan, A loan!
The bailiffs are coming roon

We're up to our knees in provvy cheques
the interests really high

we're in dire need of a loan!

:faf:

[OstKurve Hibs]

:top marks:faf:

[CB_NO3]

Excellent :thumbsup:

[CropleyWasGod]

The fire sale's over, why don't you go home?

[ancienthibby]

Plenty businesses, most notably the US car industry, have used the credit crunch / recession etc to mask the fact they've been circling the drain for years.

Don't see Rangers as being any different in this case.

So, if they were to lose tonight to a lower division team, would that be them down the proverbial plughole??:devil:

[Hibercelona]

Through all the banks in Scotland
It's loans we will take, loans we will take, loans we will take
Through all the banks in Scotland
It's loans we will take
We will take loans till bankruptcy of our team

:bye:

[Tha Cabbage Kid]

bounced cheque
bounced cheque
bounced cheque
bounced cheque

:blah::blah::blah::blah::blah:

[ancienthibby]

A few points taken from Rangers accounts for the year ended 30 June 2008.

Properties were valued in the balance sheet at £121.8m. The normal way of valuing football stadia is replacement cost – i.e. how much it would cost to rebuild if they had to start from scratch. In Rangers case the directors have added a couple of million to the surveyor’s valuation from 2006 and they call it “recoverable amount”. The point here is that the valuation is not necessarily what they could actually sell it for – the market for large football stadia is very limited. Recent history has shown that for the likes of ER, PBS and Love Street the land value for development is greater than the balance sheet valuation, but I very much doubt if that’s the case with Ibrox and Murray Park. I can’t see them getting anything like £120m for the development land and no-one else is going to buy them for their current use unless on a sale and leaseback arrangement.

Turnover was £64.4m, profit before player sales £0.6m, gains on player sales £7.7m

They spent £18m on players – that’s more than the combined gross turnovers of Hibs and Hearts.

Net asset value £79m – this is total asset less liabilities but is subject to the property valuation comments above.

Net debt £21.5m (on the same date Hearts net debt was around double that amount.)

On the question of administration, Rangers and Hearts are in rather different positions. Rangers can and will trade out of their difficulties, albeit at the short-term expense of their football results. Their major threat is that their current owner goes into administration at which point the administrator will decide how best to deal with the asset that is the shares in RFC. This is what happened to Southampton and they suffered a 10 point penalty so presumably Rangers would do the same. I think the possibility of Rangers suffering this is quite remote as there is plenty of scope for taking action before it happens.

In Hearts case the original investment by the owners is already lost and there is little reasonable hope of recovering it – they don’t have enough turnover or assets and they have already effectively written off £12m. Moreover, on the latest available evidence they are costing their owner a further considerable amount of money on a daily basis so there is a strong business case for cutting their losses through administration. However, it boils down to how much their owner wants to maintain his interest in the club. Of course they do also have the threat of the owner going bust as with Rangers.

As I’ve said before, I think in Hearts case administration could actually be beneficial for both owner and club (although I don’t have enough information to know for certain) and if I was advising them I would suggest it as an avenue they should be exploring.

Most likely 100% correct CG!

But what about the buyer??

At least two considerations for him:

1. The book value in any property sale is now likely to be far in excess of any offer made by a potential buyer. In other words, the days of premia are over and all that exists (unless you are a crazy Russian oligarth) will be severe discounts to book value!! Correct??

2. Given the values you reflect from the Rangers accounts, just where in the current Greyskull business is the cashflow to service a purchase price at book value?? Answer, it just does not exist!

Conclusion, therefore, is that the buyer (if one can be found) is that he will well know that this is a distress sale situation and his starting point may well be 10p in the £!!:greengrin

[hibee92]

:top marks:thumbsup:

[Caversham Green]

Most likely 100% correct CG!

But what about the buyer??

At least two considerations for him:

1. The book value in any property sale is now likely to be far in excess of any offer made by a potential buyer. In other words, the days of premia are over and all that exists (unless you are a crazy Russian oligarth) will be severe discounts to book value!! Correct??

2. Given the values you reflect from the Rangers accounts, just where in the current Greyskull business is the cashflow to service a purchase price at book value?? Answer, it just does not exist!

Conclusion, therefore, is that the buyer (if one can be found) is that he will well know that this is a distress sale situation and his starting point may well be 10p in the £!!:greengrin

Wouldn't argue with any of that. The reports are a bit confusing (or confused) but the way I'm reading it is that the cash value of Rangers balance sheet is negative - i.e. if they sold everything they wouldn't have enough to pay off their creditors in full, but despite that they are a going concern in the sense that they have the potential to generate enough income to service the debts as they fall due. The bank recognise both of these points and so are not willing to offer a discount on the debt to any incoming buyer (no reason to in those circumstances), but neither are they willing to provide any further loan/overdraft facilities to the current regime because of the precarious nature of the balance sheet (and the fact that they appear to have lost a capital injection of £50m on top of the £30m that is currently being reported). On a side note, Reading recently had their £7.5m overdraft facility withdrawn indicating the attitude banks currently have towards risk.

Given all that, what it would cost to buy shares in Rangers is really a question of agreement between buyer and seller, subject to the rules governing takeovers of plcs, but given that Murray seems desperate to sell and the true asset value seems to be worse than zero, I can't see it being a huge amount.

Remember, Ken Bates bought Chelsea for a quid a while back.

[CentreLine]

Wouldn't argue with any of that. The reports are a bit confusing (or confused) but the way I'm reading it is that the cash value of Rangers balance sheet is negative - i.e. if they sold everything they wouldn't have enough to pay off their creditors in full, but despite that they are a going concern in the sense that they have the potential to generate enough income to service the debts as they fall due. The bank recognise both of these points and so are not willing to offer a discount on the debt to any incoming buyer (no reason to in those circumstances), but neither are they willing to provide any further loan/overdraft facilities to the current regime because of the precarious nature of the balance sheet (and the fact that they appear to have lost a capital injection of £50m on top of the £30m that is currently being reported). On a side note, Reading recently had their £7.5m overdraft facility withdrawn indicating the attitude banks currently have towards risk.

Given all that, what it would cost to buy shares in Rangers is really a question of agreement between buyer and seller, subject to the rules governing takeovers of plcs, but given that Murray seems desperate to sell and the true asset value seems to be worse than zero, I can't see it being a huge amount.

Remember, Ken Bates bought Chelsea for a quid a while back.

Perhaps why RP was so proud to announce that the Hibees have been working for some time without an overdraft. Too expensive and prudence over the years has ensured that our club was in a position to take this step. RP for Chancelor :agree:

[jdships]

[QUOTE=Caversham Green;2219980]A few points taken from Rangers accounts for the year ended 30 June 2008.



Turnover was £64.4m, profit before player sales £0.6m, gains on player sales £7.7m

They spent £18m on players – that’s more than the combined gross turnovers of Hibs and Hearts.

Net asset value £79m – this is total asset less liabilities but is subject to the property valuation comments above.

Net debt £21.5m (on the same date Hearts net FONT=Arial]In Hearts case the original investment by the owners is already lost and there is little reasonable hope of recovering it – they don’t have enough debt was around double that amount.)

On the question of administration, Rangers and Hearts are in rather different positions. Rangers can and will trade out of their difficulties, albeit at the short-term expense of their football results. Their major threat is that their current owner goes into administration at which point the administrator will decide how best to deal with the asset that is the shares in RFC. This is what happened to Southampton and they suffered a 10 point penalty so presumably Rangers would do the same. I think the possibility of Rangers suffering this is quite remote as there is plenty of scope for taking action before it happens.




Speaking , today, with a friend who deals with liquidations/sequestrations and he gave me the same opinion , almost word for word , as your highlighted post !

He also made an interesting point that RFC's religous/bigotry background could/might put off a foreign buyer ala English Premier.


Interesting 12 months ahead methinks !!
:greengrin

[macca70]

http://www.hibs.net/message/attachment.php?attachmentid=5122&d=1256713390

[blueisthecolour]

http://sn125w.snt125.mail.live.com/mail/SafeRedirect.aspx?hm__tg=http://65.55.72.39/att/GetAttachment.aspx&hm__qs=file%3dc0cb6de6-a4e3-4288-a8db-ec01d84300ae%26ct%3daW1hZ2UvanBlZw_3d_3d%26name%3d QVRUMDAwMDE_3d%26inline%3d1%26rfc%3d0%26empty%3dFa lse%26imgsrc%3dcid%253a4B8D5867ABC64C0A905D21DBD97 233A3%2540SN037568520018&oneredir=1&ip=10.13.122.8&d=d1503&mf=0&a=01_9a8d951aaf54e79d5ecc854e136be34d1fef096ede0a1 7ffa230996f4f0dd271

white background has the dressing room been painted?:cool2:

[WarringtonHibee]

Macca you need to upload the picture to a site such as www.tinypic.com

[blueisthecolour]

I assume it's the one with the lloyds signs on the walls ect, sorry if ive spoiled your surprise.

[hibbymac]

.

[Worcester Hibby]

If Rangers don't find a buyer before the end of the season and if (ok it's a very big "If") we were to nick 2nd spot and therefore their champions league place, what would that mean for their finances the following season?

[sam armstrong]

A few points taken from Rangers accounts for the year ended 30 June 2008.

Properties were valued in the balance sheet at £121.8m. The normal way of valuing football stadia is replacement cost – i.e. how much it would cost to rebuild if they had to start from scratch. In Rangers case the directors have added a couple of million to the surveyor’s valuation from 2006 and they call it “recoverable amount”. The point here is that the valuation is not necessarily what they could actually sell it for – the market for large football stadia is very limited. Recent history has shown that for the likes of ER, PBS and Love Street the land value for development is greater than the balance sheet valuation, but I very much doubt if that’s the case with Ibrox and Murray Park. I can’t see them getting anything like £120m for the development land and no-one else is going to buy them for their current use unless on a sale and leaseback arrangement.

Turnover was £64.4m, profit before player sales £0.6m, gains on player sales £7.7m

They spent £18m on players – that’s more than the combined gross turnovers of Hibs and Hearts.

Net asset value £79m – this is total asset less liabilities but is subject to the property valuation comments above.

Net debt £21.5m (on the same date Hearts net debt was around double that amount.)

On the question of administration, Rangers and Hearts are in rather different positions. Rangers can and will trade out of their difficulties, albeit at the short-term expense of their football results. Their major threat is that their current owner goes into administration at which point the administrator will decide how best to deal with the asset that is the shares in RFC. This is what happened to Southampton and they suffered a 10 point penalty so presumably Rangers would do the same. I think the possibility of Rangers suffering this is quite remote as there is plenty of scope for taking action before it happens.

In Hearts case the original investment by the owners is already lost and there is little reasonable hope of recovering it – they don’t have enough turnover or assets and they have already effectively written off £12m. Moreover, on the latest available evidence they are costing their owner a further considerable amount of money on a daily basis so there is a strong business case for cutting their losses through administration. However, it boils down to how much their owner wants to maintain his interest in the club. Of course they do also have the threat of the owner going bust as with Rangers.

As I’ve said before, I think in Hearts case administration could actually be beneficial for both owner and club (although I don’t have enough information to know for certain) and if I was advising them I would suggest it as an avenue they should be exploring.

You can be sure that Romanov will be aware of all his possibilities and if administration was his or his banks best option then it will happen.

[Caversham Green]

You can be sure that Romanov will be aware of all his possibilities and if administration was his or his banks best option then it will happen.

Very true. Which means he still sees a benefit in keeping his interest in Hearts alive. As to what that is, I can think of the following option:

Vanity project - Vlad is just using UBIG's money to feed his ego. A distinct possibility given his actions with Kaunas earlier in the year.
Prospects - there was a school of thought that his intention in buying Hearts in the first place was to get a foothold in Edinburgh to be followed by a branch of his bank and the hotel complex at Tynie. Maybe he still holds out hope for this, but it looks dead in the water to me.
Timing - maybe he's just waiting for a point when administration is more beneficial, e.g. if the property market improves.
Money - maybe he is actually getting more money out than is apparent from the accounts. He did boast in the Lithuanian press about having made £15m profit out of Hearts. I doubt if that could have been done legally though...
I wouldn't like to hazard a guess which one of those is the right one - it may be a combination of two or more. Or it may be just that he's completely barking mad.

[Leithenhibby]

Very true. Which means he still sees a benefit in keeping his interest in Hearts alive. As to what that is, I can think of the following option:

Vanity project - Vlad is just using UBIG's money to feed his ego. A distinct possibility given his actions with Kaunas earlier in the year.
Prospects - there was a school of thought that his intention in buying Hearts in the first place was to get a foothold in Edinburgh to be followed by a branch of his bank and the hotel complex at Tynie. Maybe he still holds out hope for this, but it looks dead in the water to me.
Timing - maybe he's just waiting for a point when administration is more beneficial, e.g. if the property market improves.
Money - maybe he is actually getting more money out than is apparent from the accounts. He did boast in the Lithuanian press about having made £15m profit out of Hearts. I doubt if that could have been done legally though...
I wouldn't like to hazard a guess which one of those is the right one - it may be a combination of two or more. Or it may be just that he's completely barking mad.

Well said young man...you are obviously in the finance business! but me, I just like to think he is barking :devil:

[matty_f]

I assume it's the one with the lloyds signs on the walls ect, sorry if ive spoiled your surprise.

awww are people laughing at your team? :boo hoo:
:greengrin

[H18sry]

:rolleyes:

[big-mo]

http://i34.tinypic.com/rcn8s8.jpg

http://i38.tinypic.com/20qaxd3.jpg

http://i33.tinypic.com/34q04u9.jpg

http://i38.tinypic.com/21c6sn6.jpg

http://i37.tinypic.com/1zlf4hf.jpg

http://i33.tinypic.com/149p652.jpg

[blueisthecolour]

awww are people laughing at your team? :boo hoo:
:greengrin

Aye mate we are also laughing at the state we are in yet we are still the ONLY team in Britain undefeated in the league:wink:

[matty_f]

Aye mate we are also laughing at the state we are in yet we are still the ONLY team in Britain undefeated in the league:wink:

Whooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!

Well, that's us put in our place. :wink:

That 4-1-4-1 is a bugger to break down, right enough.

[blueisthecolour]

Whooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!

Well, that's us put in our place. :wink:

That 4-1-4-1 is a bugger to break down, right enough.

Seems to be for scottish teams:wink:

[Andy.1875]

Aye mate we are also laughing at the state we are in yet we are still the ONLY team in Britain undefeated in the league:wink:

Surely not the Champions League :rolleyes:

[blueisthecolour]

Surely not the Champions League :rolleyes:

Nope the SPL, that's the league that we are champions, and the league we compete against the teams of the fans who mock us.:wink:

[7Hero]

Nope the SPL, that's the league that we are champions, and the league we compete against the teams of the fans who mock us.:wink:

i well dont get the opportunity to mock yous (from a football point of view at least) very often, we havebeen laughing at your bigotry / ugliness for years though.

hope you get years of suffering, humiliating defeats, crap signings and abject dissapointment, my god you certainly deserve it for the pain you have caused scottish football over the years.

[Jonnyboy]

:singing:

A loan, a loan
We need some money soon
A loan, a loan
The Bailiff's comin roond

We're up to our knees in provvy cheques
The interest's realy high

Cos we are the skinto Billy Boys

:singing:

:greengrin

[wazoo1875]

:singing:

A loan, a loan
We need some money soon
A loan, a loan
The Bailiff's comin roond

We're up to our knees in provvy cheques
The interest's realy high

Cos we are the skinto Billy Boys

:singing:

:greengrin
:faf:

I like it , i like it a lot :agree:

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Excellent Johnnyboy. Poor wee lambs!

I also liked the one told to me by a Celtc fan a few years ago.

Hello, Hello's
The only song we know
Hello, Hello
Through rain or sleet or snow

We have the words all written down
So we dont get confused
In the editions of the Rangers news

[HibeeB]

Nope the SPL, that's the league that we are champions, and the league we compete against the teams of the fans who mock us.:wink:

I hope you consider your 5 wins and 4 draws worth going down the tubes for :yawn:

[Keith_M]

I heard RP is trying to cash in on the current situation. Come January, expect a sneeky wee cut-price offer for one of Rangers assets. I can see the headline now...



"Hibs bid £5M for the Govan Stand"




:wink:

[matty_f]

Seems to be for scottish teams:wink:

How are the continentals getting on with it?

[blueisthecolour]

:singing:

A loan, a loan
We need some money soon
A loan, a loan
The Bailiff's comin roond

We're up to our knees in provvy cheques
The interest's realy high

Cos we are the skinto Billy Boys

:singing:

:greengrin

You missed the first part which I thought very funny, borrow borrow, as much as I don't like the situation at ibrox, at least it gets the banter going, which is part of the fun in football imo.

[goosano]

Graham Speirs gets on my tits a lot of the time but sometimes he does some fine writing eg here (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/scotland/article6897695.ece) -on Rangers financial plight

[CentreLine]

Graham Speirs gets on my tits a lot of the time but sometimes he does some fine writing eg here (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/scotland/article6897695.ece) -on Rangers financial plight

I am happy to have a little fun at the expense of the bigot boys but I cannot get any pleasure at the prospect of a big company like MIH going down with in excess of 3500 jobs. These jobs are held by your ordinary Jo and are not anything to do with rangers football club.

Right, that's the serious bit over, now, I hope the bigots are squeezed out of the SPL and have to spend a spell in the lower leagues learning what it is like to live within their means. It will not happen of course but just maybe they will have to compete on a level playing field for a while and understand that it it them and their equally bigotted cousins from across Glasgow that have come within spitting distance of destroying Scottish football.

The plus points? Well, now we should see again many more talented Scots getting their chance to play and improve. Maybe in ten years time this will be seen as the saving of the game here.