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Haymaker
13-10-2009, 01:33 PM
Interesting piece in the Observer on sunday by Paul Hayward entitled "Five reasons for England to say NO to the Old Firm" His points were;

1: Easy to see what the OF would gain from fleeing south - television money and reflected glory - but how would premier league clubs benefit? Already in Grand Slam Super Sunday overload, with the big four plus Man City, Spurs and Villa (plus steady champions league action), Englands top division needs no new hyped rivalries

2: A two-tier premier league of 18 clubs in each would consign the other 50 plus outfits to semi-professional wilderness. This scheme, to be discussed in november, would open the back door to Rangers and Celtic but destroy clubs across England

3: Who would care about a Scottish League contested by Hibs, Hearts and Aberdeen? The Scottish grassroots would be napalmed [sic]

4: With a British League, FIFA and UEFA would be within their rights to shut the UK's four-nation route to the WC and EC. Not even we, the arrogant mother country [sic], could demand places for England AND Scotland with Celtic and Liverpool in the same domestic league.

5: Scotland is already devolved and is edging towards independence. If it becomes an sovereign state, will he premier league also invite Ajax and Feyenoord to cure Dutch footballs top-heaviness.


Discuss...

Owain_1987
13-10-2009, 02:02 PM
Interesting piece in the Observer on sunday by Paul Hayward entitled "Five reasons for England to say NO to the Old Firm" His points were;

1: Easy to see what the OF would gain from fleeing south - television money and reflected glory - but how would premier league clubs benefit? Already in Grand Slam Super Sunday overload, with the big four plus Man City, Spurs and Villa (plus steady champions league action), Englands top division needs no new hyped rivalries

2: A two-tier premier league of 18 clubs in each would consign the other 50 plus outfits to semi-professional wilderness. This scheme, to be discussed in november, would open the back door to Rangers and Celtic but destroy clubs across England

3: Who would care about a Scottish League contested by Hibs, Hearts and Aberdeen? The Scottish grassroots would be napalmed [sic]

4: With a British League, FIFA and UEFA would be within their rights to shut the UK's four-nation route to the WC and EC. Not even we, the arrogant mother country [sic], could demand places for England AND Scotland with Celtic and Liverpool in the same domestic league.

5: Scotland is already devolved and is edging towards independence. If it becomes an sovereign state, will he premier league also invite Ajax and Feyenoord to cure Dutch footballs top-heaviness.


Discuss...

I agree with points. Saying that alot of people care in Scotland about Hibs, Hearts and the Sheep. OK will not get so many people watching worldwide but still get plenty people in Scotland going to games am sure. Also look at places like Norway, Sweden etc they all have leagues with no 'big' teams and they do ok. Last thing am not sure how close Scotland really are to independence so not sure what I make of last point.

hibbybob
13-10-2009, 02:26 PM
After the Currant Buns rioting in Manchester last year I really can't understand why the English are even discussing this! It's not as if that was a one off. There is a long history of both lots misbehaving!!

JimBHibees
13-10-2009, 03:08 PM
After the Currant Buns rioting in Manchester last year I really can't understand why the English are even discussing this! It's not as if that was a one off. There is a long history of both lots misbehaving!!

What are you talking about it was Chelseas casuals that did that, no way were any absolutely paraletic Gers fans involved. We arra people, hic. :drunk::drunk: signed M. Bain, Gers FC, K. Jackson, D. Record and E. Cameron, Real Radio. :greengrin

Forza Fred
13-10-2009, 03:15 PM
Viewing form afar, and emotionally detached, I really don't see why people are treating the OF's 'wish' of moving to Ingerlund with any energy at all.

They are Scottish sides, based (obviously) in Scotland.

The chances of them moving to England are nil, zero, effall etc.

Yes, I know there are examples of teams in other parts of the world playing in the league of other nations, (the Australian league an obvious example) but before FIFA endorse such things there has to be a very good case for it.

sorry, but the OF's belief that they have 'outgrown' the SPL is not one.

They may wish to be the footballing equivalent of 'economic migrants' but it just ain't gonna happen.

greenlex
13-10-2009, 03:22 PM
Wales' "top two" Cardiff and Swansea compete in the English leauges and it doesn't affect the Welsh FA having a national team. Why should the ugly sisters playing there have a bearing on a Scottish National team?

jakedance
13-10-2009, 03:27 PM
Viewing form afar, and emotionally detached, I really don't see why people are treating the OF's 'wish' of moving to Ingerlund with any energy at all.

They are Scottish sides, based (obviously) in Scotland.

The chances of them moving to England are nil, zero, effall etc.

Yes, I know there are examples of teams in other parts of the world playing in the league of other nations, (the Australian league an obvious example) but before FIFA endorse such things there has to be a very good case for it.

sorry, but the OF's belief that they have 'outgrown' the SPL is not one.

They may wish to be the footballing equivalent of 'economic migrants' but it just ain't gonna happen.

I think that's a wee bit nieve. It's unlikely to ever happen but if the clubs involved decided there was money to be made from having them in their league then it will happen. Greed is far more important to these people than outdated concepts like national boundaries or tradition.

Forza Fred
13-10-2009, 03:52 PM
I think that's a wee bit nieve. It's unlikely to ever happen but if the clubs involved decided there was money to be made from having them in their league then it will happen. Greed is far more important to these people than outdated concepts like national boundaries or tradition.

Thak you!

In all my 58 years I have been described in many ways, but never as naive....:greengrin

However my point is tha tbasically, FIFA would not allow it.

Doesn't matter what the 'clubs' want.

Haymaker
13-10-2009, 04:02 PM
Thak you!

In all my 58 years I have been described in many ways, but never as naive....:greengrin

However my point is tha tbasically, FIFA would not allow it.

Doesn't matter what the 'clubs' want.


Especially if FIFA keep up with this "Money [read EPL] is raping the game!" that Blatter is going off about atm.

Viva_Palmeiras
13-10-2009, 04:12 PM
Especially if FIFA keep up with this "Money [read EPL] is raping the game!" that Blatter is going off about atm.

Thats an interesting one I've not heard/read his comments but I belelieve the only way to do something is to intervene, something which FIFA/EUFA appear reluctant to do. Therefore by there inactions they are in effect supporting this behaviour. Platini seemed to talk a good game then he got in. Time will tell and history will judge those at the helm that stood by and merely rearranged the deck chairs.

Devonhibs
13-10-2009, 04:17 PM
Wales' "top two" Cardiff and Swansea compete in the English leauges and it doesn't affect the Welsh FA having a national team. Why should the ugly sisters playing there have a bearing on a Scottish National team?

I think they main point with these two is they have been competing in the English leagues for yonks - way before the uber finanaces on offer in England.

Haymaker
13-10-2009, 04:43 PM
Thats an interesting one I've not heard/read his comments but I belelieve the only way to do something is to intervene, something which FIFA/EUFA appear reluctant to do. Therefore by there inactions they are in effect supporting this behaviour. Platini seemed to talk a good game then he got in. Time will tell and history will judge those at the helm that stood by and merely rearranged the deck chairs.


It was brought up when chelsea were banned from transfers, he was going on about teams taking young talent but has also critised large money transfers in England (like platini) especially with the whole Man City £100m for kaka phase, yet as far as I am aware there hasnt been much about Reals huge debts, £80m on Ronaldo etc. I maybe wrong here but I doubt it.

However blatter is the one trying to make half-time 20minutes for extra advertising and is in favour of "4 quarters" for advertising as well so he is a hypocrite anyway.

What UEFA and FIFA dislike the most is the large concentration of wealth in England and its monopolising effect on the CL. However UEFA should have thought about that when they allow 3-4 teams from some countries into the competition and paid them massive amounts of money from advertising and TV. One of three leagues was going to monopolise the CL at some point. However if you look at the CL it has swung between being dominated by Italy, Spain and England over the last 10 years or so.

**** me I went completely off topic there, thats the trouble when you have spent all day looking at statistics I suppose.

Anyway, FIFA and UEFA I believe WILL oppose the idea as will the vast majority of EPL chairmen. Their view will be "If the OF come in and actually DO well, that might push us further down the league therefore losing income and status." The small possibility of them doing well will make chairmen vote no. Can you imagine a team like Everton who are usually in the top part and europe getting pushed out because of the OF? The reaction would be hilarious "They shouldnt be here" etc etc

Suppose it would give Celtc fans a real victim status :cool2:

jgl07
13-10-2009, 04:45 PM
Wales' "top two" Cardiff and Swansea compete in the English leauges and it doesn't affect the Welsh FA having a national team. Why should the ugly sisters playing there have a bearing on a Scottish National team?
It is based on historic precedence as Cardiff, Swansea, Wrexham, Newport, and Methyr have been playing in the English League system before the International Organizations were really established. They are specifically given exemption from the rule.

Other Welsh teams would not be allowed to move to the Football League or the Conference. Newport had to play their 'home' matches in Gloucestershire for a period in the 1990s.

Their are a few other anomalies including Derry playing in the League of Ireland, Monaco playing in the French League, and Berwick playing in the Scottish League.

The move will not happen as:

1. UEFA and FIFA would kick up a fuss.

2. The Police (especially in Manchester and London) would object.

3. The Premier League teams would be voting themselves more likely to be relegated. An eighteen team EPL including the OF would mean four current PL teams would go down. At least 65% of all teams would appear to be vulnerable.

A shame as I would love to see the back of the pair of them.

FRes Hibbie
13-10-2009, 04:52 PM
Thak you!

In all my 58 years I have been described in many ways, but never as naive....:greengrin

However my point is tha tbasically, FIFA would not allow it.

Doesn't matter what the 'clubs' want.

Really?

http://sport.scotsman.com/football/Old-Firm-moving-to-England.5722574.jp

Fifa describe it as, "theoretically possible" and Uefa say that it would be considered if the SFA, SPL, English FA and EPL find an agreement.

I'm not saying it'll happen (I don't think it will) but it won't be Fifa/Uefa that blocks it imo. Take your pick of any of the other four bodies - that's who'll block it.

Kaiser1962
13-10-2009, 05:28 PM
Really?

http://sport.scotsman.com/football/Old-Firm-moving-to-England.5722574.jp

Fifa describe it as, "theoretically possible" and Uefa say that it would be considered if the SFA, SPL, English FA and EPL find an agreement.

I'm not saying it'll happen (I don't think it will) but it won't be Fifa/Uefa that blocks it imo. Take your pick of any of the other four bodies - that's who'll block it.

Fifa/Uefa just passing the buck a bit. At the moment it is not going to happen for reasons that have been done to death however, and this is the big however, the EPL teams are in quite a lot of debt and seem to be getting further into debt just to stand still. What is happening there is just not sustainable should the "owners" decide that they are bored with the whole thing. A bit like mad vlad but with a big team. The money that the "clubs" owe to their benefactors is colossal and, while it will continue like this in the short term, the longer term survivability of what could happen to any team in the English top flight (Leeds anyone) is open to serious question.
AND......Mark McGhee is right. I dont think they could "invite" RC and leave all the other teams out, the very laws that RC are quoting would be their undoing. Complicated or what?