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sunshine1875
13-10-2009, 12:45 PM
When watching the Japan game, the commentator said a couple of times that Japan expect to get to at least the semi-final. When you look at the quality of their players, the standard of their domestic league and the fact that there are not many of their team playing at the highest level this seemed, to me, to be too high an aspiration.

However, it is good that they have this expectation and I am sure that this started a while ago when they had a vision to improve the standard of play and the quality of their league. Contrast that with ours and I see none.

I remember a live TV show following Scotland's failure to qualify for the World Cup in 1994. Gordon Strachan stated all that was wrong with Scottish football and a lot of it was connected to the failure to commence the football eductaion at an early age (pre-school) and working with these kids all the way through to the pro-teams.

It seems to me that little has improved over the last 15 years. Yes - we can give some examples of some improvement, but is does not seem to be as part of a single co-ordinated plan to improve the football eduction. There also appears to me to be no Vision - where do we want to be in 15 and in 30 years time and what are the actions to get there. What are the success factors along the way that help us to know if we are on track?

So for the visionaries out there with a football brain - what should be our Vision and what are the actions to get there? Some thoughts:

Qualified football coach(es) appointed for each primary school. Would be better than some well-minded Dad with little football education.
Qualified football coach(es) appointed for each secondary school. In my sons school, there is little organised football outwith normal school hours.
Senior / Junior football teams linked to secondary schools with a message that "if you are good enough and have the right social skills then we will start inviting you to our organised training"
Astro football pitches more available with organised training in the early evening or weekends.
Fitness and Lifestyle eductation to all starting in each primary school.
Direction from Government that football, along with other key sports, will be priority sports during the school year. If someone wants to learn rounders, volleyball, badminton etc do it in your own time. What is taught in school seems to be dependant on the PE teachers interests.
Football scholarships to provide learning in both football and other subjects for those that are maybe not good enough yet to go straight to a football career and can learn about other career options at the same time (for example, fitness training etc).
Thoughts? And try to keep this away from the usual Rantic/Hertz stuff - it is what is best for Scotland.

sunshine1875
25-10-2009, 04:47 PM
BUMP! Surely, someone must have an opinion.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/jimspence/2009/10/scottish_football_needs_czar.html


When watching the Japan game, the commentator said a couple of times that Japan expect to get to at least the semi-final. When you look at the quality of their players, the standard of their domestic league and the fact that there are not many of their team playing at the highest level this seemed, to me, to be too high an aspiration.

However, it is good that they have this expectation and I am sure that this started a while ago when they had a vision to improve the standard of play and the quality of their league. Contrast that with ours and I see none.

I remember a live TV show following Scotland's failure to qualify for the World Cup in 1994. Gordon Strachan stated all that was wrong with Scottish football and a lot of it was connected to the failure to commence the football eductaion at an early age (pre-school) and working with these kids all the way through to the pro-teams.

It seems to me that little has improved over the last 15 years. Yes - we can give some examples of some improvement, but is does not seem to be as part of a single co-ordinated plan to improve the football eduction. There also appears to me to be no Vision - where do we want to be in 15 and in 30 years time and what are the actions to get there. What are the success factors along the way that help us to know if we are on track?


So for the visionaries out there with a football brain - what should be our Vision and what are the actions to get there? Some thoughts:

Qualified football coach(es) appointed for each primary school. Would be better than some well-minded Dad with little football education.
Qualified football coach(es) appointed for each secondary school. In my sons school, there is little organised football outwith normal school hours.
Senior / Junior football teams linked to secondary schools with a message that "if you are good enough and have the right social skills then we will start inviting you to our organised training"
Astro football pitches more available with organised training in the early evening or weekends.
Fitness and Lifestyle eductation to all starting in each primary school.
Direction from Government that football, along with other key sports, will be priority sports during the school year. If someone wants to learn rounders, volleyball, badminton etc do it in your own time. What is taught in school seems to be dependant on the PE teachers interests.
Football scholarships to provide learning in both football and other subjects for those that are maybe not good enough yet to go straight to a football career and can learn about other career options at the same time (for example, fitness training etc).
Thoughts? And try to keep this away from the usual Rantic/Hertz stuff - it is what is best for Scotland.

basehibby
25-10-2009, 05:09 PM
BUMP! Surely, someone must have an opinion.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/jimspence/2009/10/scottish_football_needs_czar.html

That's a great article to rival your OP (surprised it elicited no responses 1st time round.

I think that the author of the article makes a very good point in suggesting we need a football czar - because what the Scottish game lacks - and has been lacking as long as I can remember - is clear and concise overall leadership.

Our structure is too complex, too convoluted and too short sighted - putting the interests of elite clubs (ie the SPL clubs - not JUST the OF) before those of the game as a whole. As far as I know we have the SFA, SPL, Scottish League, Junior League, School's SFA and probably more organisations all pulling in different directions when what we need is the whole lot brought together under one banner and pushing in the same direction.
That's our main problem IMO and I would be happy to see it looked at AND acted upon at Scottish Government level - it would need some investment but if the focus and vision was clearly defined it would be worth it - it's our national sport and we've been short changed for far too long by all the blazers with vested interests.

ScottB
25-10-2009, 05:50 PM
That's a great article to rival your OP (surprised it elicited no responses 1st time round.

I think that the author of the article makes a very good point in suggesting we need a football czar - because what the Scottish game lacks - and has been lacking as long as I can remember - is clear and concise overall leadership.

Our structure is too complex, too convoluted and too short sighted - putting the interests of elite clubs (ie the SPL clubs - not JUST the OF) before those of the game as a whole. As far as I know we have the SFA, SPL, Scottish League, Junior League, School's SFA and probably more organisations all pulling in different directions when what we need is the whole lot brought together under one banner and pushing in the same direction.
That's our main problem IMO and I would be happy to see it looked at AND acted upon at Scottish Government level - it would need some investment but if the focus and vision was clearly defined it would be worth it - it's our national sport and we've been short changed for far too long by all the blazers with vested interests.

You suggest appointing a 'Czar' but then suggest exactly why it wouldn't work.

The last thing we need would be yet another level of bureacracy. Surely the 'Czar' role should, in theory at least be the head of the SFA?

Scottish football has been blighted by short termism for decades, we and most of the SPL were shocked out of that at the start of this decade when finances forced us to think long term and build slowly. It does seem the Old Firm are now facing up to a similar situation finally and how Hearts are still staggering on is a mystery to me.

Until the media and the Old Firm move away from the short termist concepts of buy buy buy your way out of problems and demanding sackings after losing 3 games, enforcing a real long term plan will be impossible. That and a wholesale cull of the SFA is required.

sunshine1875
15-11-2009, 08:03 AM
BUMP AGAIN.

Another Scotland match and again further evidence that we are going nowhere. Yes, there will be calls for short-term quick wins - sack Burley, get rid of Kenny Miller / McManus / Caldwell. But this has been going on for years.

What are we going to do about it?


When watching the Japan game, the commentator said a couple of times that Japan expect to get to at least the semi-final. When you look at the quality of their players, the standard of their domestic league and the fact that there are not many of their team playing at the highest level this seemed, to me, to be too high an aspiration.

However, it is good that they have this expectation and I am sure that this started a while ago when they had a vision to improve the standard of play and the quality of their league. Contrast that with ours and I see none.

I remember a live TV show following Scotland's failure to qualify for the World Cup in 1994. Gordon Strachan stated all that was wrong with Scottish football and a lot of it was connected to the failure to commence the football eductaion at an early age (pre-school) and working with these kids all the way through to the pro-teams.

It seems to me that little has improved over the last 15 years. Yes - we can give some examples of some improvement, but is does not seem to be as part of a single co-ordinated plan to improve the football eduction. There also appears to me to be no Vision - where do we want to be in 15 and in 30 years time and what are the actions to get there. What are the success factors along the way that help us to know if we are on track?


So for the visionaries out there with a football brain - what should be our Vision and what are the actions to get there? Some thoughts:

Qualified football coach(es) appointed for each primary school. Would be better than some well-minded Dad with little football education.
Qualified football coach(es) appointed for each secondary school. In my sons school, there is little organised football outwith normal school hours.
Senior / Junior football teams linked to secondary schools with a message that "if you are good enough and have the right social skills then we will start inviting you to our organised training"
Astro football pitches more available with organised training in the early evening or weekends.
Fitness and Lifestyle eductation to all starting in each primary school.
Direction from Government that football, along with other key sports, will be priority sports during the school year. If someone wants to learn rounders, volleyball, badminton etc do it in your own time. What is taught in school seems to be dependant on the PE teachers interests.
Football scholarships to provide learning in both football and other subjects for those that are maybe not good enough yet to go straight to a football career and can learn about other career options at the same time (for example, fitness training etc).
Thoughts? And try to keep this away from the usual Rantic/Hertz stuff - it is what is best for Scotland.

joe breezy
15-11-2009, 08:09 AM
Good points on the education system.

Problem is that most decisions are made by politicians with layers of beurocracy that means little gets done. Sports probably not high on teachers agenda either especially in Scotland where the EIS **** though it was fair game to do an overtime ban that went on for years in the 80s depriving a whole generation of sport.

Barney McGrew
15-11-2009, 08:19 AM
Sports probably not high on teachers agenda either especially in Scotland where the EIS **** though it was fair game to do an overtime ban that went on for years in the 80s depriving a whole generation of sport.

The same '****' who gave up their free time at the weekends to run said sports?

Ozyhibby
15-11-2009, 10:02 AM
The same '****' who gave up their free time at the weekends to run said sports?

I hope you are not suggesting teachers are over worked? With 12 weeks holiday a year it is not to much to ask them to spend sat morning doing sports with the kids. In the private school system it is written into their contract which is why they manage to run 3 or 4 football teams per year alonside rugby, cricket, hockey etc.
By the time I left school in 86 the only football teams left were the ones where a dad was running it or in the case of our team the kids were running it.
EIS S**M.

euro Hibby
15-11-2009, 10:11 AM
If this is vision I don't know

Under-fire Celtic duo can become Scotland greats, says Paul Hegarty

Headline from the Daily record.........

Barney McGrew
15-11-2009, 10:11 AM
I hope you are not suggesting teachers are over worked?

Where did I say that?

hibee_boy
15-11-2009, 11:58 AM
interesting points.

I am a primary school teacher. I am contracted to work 35 hours a week, however, due to the nature of the job, i work around 45-50 (which equtes to 53 weeks a year, meaning i get -1 week holiday.....so those who give teachers a hard time can shut it!!! anyway, thats another point)

I arrived at the school I am working in 1 year and a half ago and was keen to start up a football club. Prior to me arriving, football was "banned" in the school. this was seriously worrying, therefore i did some things to change it. i went on an sfa course, got hold of some footballs and agreed to run a club (which i dont get paid for).

I do this out of my love or teaching and my love for football, and I think the school is pretty lucky to have someone who gives up their time for this.

my point is that the majority of schools dont do this.

If football is scotlands number 1 sport, shurly we need to be doing more about it at grass roots level. Football doesnt feature in the curriculum however i think this needs to change. I teach 6 and 7 year olds which is the prime age to get them interested. Scotland were good in the 70s and 90s due to children doing more sport and being more active, if this doesnt change we are only going to see a future of kevin kyles and danny foxes.

Hibby Bairn
15-11-2009, 12:09 PM
I have been to do SFA courses and help coach a primary school football team. In Edinburgh the structure is organised by an SFA employee within the council. The schools went back on 16th August. This is now 15th November. The school team (primary 4) have played 3 games in 3 months. 40 mins per game so that is 2 hours of football.

There is no connection with other local schools. No connection with the local high school. No connection with any youth club. I have never been visited by any SFA rep since I "qualified" 4 years ago. We get no support for equipment, facilities etc. No help in coaching the new coaches who want to help ("well meaning dads"). It is basically left to us with absolutely no support from the school. Never seen a teacher at any game in over 4 years of dooing this. Great leadership from within the school!

I've just come back from an U9 club game from the so called top division within the region. These boys are 7 and 8 year old. One boy was sent off and 4 of the players on one team had to leave the field crying because of bad tackles. When the boy's coach (the one sent off) was asked by the "well meaning dad" who was helping out by refereeing, to replace him he strode onto the pitch and gave him verbals rather than using it as an opportunity to coach better footballing behaviour on the pitch.

Fast forward 15 years and we'll be asking the same questions again after being cuffed by some average team and still not qualifying for the world cup. And the reasons are there to see for all at the age groups above.

Shambles basically with no local or national leadership. With many teams still run by well meaning bampots.

But we've heard all this before and still nothing happens.

jakedance
15-11-2009, 12:25 PM
interesting points.

I am a primary school teacher. I am contracted to work 35 hours a week, however, due to the nature of the job, i work around 45-50 (which equtes to 53 weeks a year, meaning i get -1 week holiday.....so those who give teachers a hard time can shut it!!! anyway, thats another point)

I arrived at the school I am working in 1 year and a half ago and was keen to start up a football club. Prior to me arriving, football was "banned" in the school. this was seriously worrying, therefore i did some things to change it. i went on an sfa course, got hold of some footballs and agreed to run a club (which i dont get paid for).

I do this out of my love or teaching and my love for football, and I think the school is pretty lucky to have someone who gives up their time for this.

my point is that the majority of schools dont do this.

If football is scotlands number 1 sport, shurly we need to be doing more about it at grass roots level. Football doesnt feature in the curriculum however i think this needs to change. I teach 6 and 7 year olds which is the prime age to get them interested. Scotland were good in the 70s and 90s due to children doing more sport and being more active, if this doesnt change we are only going to see a future of kevin kyles and danny foxes.

Good on you mate. If we had more people willing to put the time in to do voluntary work we'd be in much better shape. When I was at secondary school in Haddington the options out of hours were rugby or rugby. We had to play basketball in P.E. Basketball! I don't remember any sport in primary school, I think we played rounders. Thankfully their were a few guys, John Smilie and Jock McLean who ran Haddington Hotspur when I was growing up.

The Scottish Government needs to get involved. I'm surprised the SNP have continued the tradition of saying football is for the SFA to worry about. A sure-fire way to promote their nationalist agenda is through the patriotism that comes from success in sport.

When Scotland excels at anything, particularly football, you'll see a spike in the polls for independence.

I think for years the authorities have just assumed that kids would continue developing just by playing out on the streets all day like most of us did when we were growing but kids these days have the internet and satellite tv and xboxes. We need to continue to invest in proper facilities and coaches to get them out playing again. Its a different world and our governing body and government didn't see it coming.

Their are plenty success stories, the way the French reinvigorated their football set-up, the way the Dutch have played for years. Governments regularly have targets for medals at the Olympics and invest money to achieve those targets, football should be no different. Its not rocket science. We can have a successful team but it needs support, and money, from the government. As long as we expect the SFA to do everything we've no chance. We all know what their priorities are.

Football needs to turn into an election issue because at every level in Scotland we can, and need to, improve.

jakedance
15-11-2009, 12:32 PM
I have been to do SFA courses and help coach a primary school football team. In Edinburgh the structure is organised by an SFA employee within the council. The schools went back on 16th August. This is now 15th November. The school team (primary 4) have played 3 games in 3 months. 40 mins per game so that is 2 hours of football.

There is no connection with other local schools. No connection with the local high school. No connection with any youth club. I have never been visited by any SFA rep since I "qualified" 4 years ago. We get no support for equipment, facilities etc. No help in coaching the new coaches who want to help ("well meaning dads"). It is basically left to us with absolutely no support from the school. Never seen a teacher at any game in over 4 years of dooing this. Great leadership from within the school!

I've just come back from an U9 club game from the so called top division within the region. These boys are 7 and 8 year old. One boy was sent off and 4 of the players on one team had to leave the field crying because of bad tackles. When the boy's coach (the one sent off) was asked by the "well meaning dad" who was helping out by refereeing, to replace him he strode onto the pitch and gave him verbals rather than using it as an opportunity to coach better footballing behaviour on the pitch.

Fast forward 15 years and we'll be asking the same questions again after being cuffed by some average team and still not qualifying for the world cup. And the reasons are there to see for all at the age groups above.

Shambles basically with no local or national leadership. With many teams still run by well meaning bampots.

But we've heard all this before and still nothing happens.


A sad story which probably doesn't come as a surprise to anyone. Its no surprise the way the kids and coaches behave, when you look at who is inspiring them on the tv.

sunshine1875
15-11-2009, 12:41 PM
I am glad that my OP has at last generated some responses. At no time was my OP meant to be a dig at teachers. Over thirty years ago, the teacher that took me for out of hours football training was the Maths teacher - not because he was qualified to do it, but because of his love for football. At the time, I did not realise that the out of hours football was unpaid.

I think we all believe that something has to change and the starting point has to be at schools, with a support structure all the way to the professional teams.


interesting points.

I am a primary school teacher. I am contracted to work 35 hours a week, however, due to the nature of the job, i work around 45-50 (which equtes to 53 weeks a year, meaning i get -1 week holiday.....so those who give teachers a hard time can shut it!!! anyway, thats another point)

I arrived at the school I am working in 1 year and a half ago and was keen to start up a football club. Prior to me arriving, football was "banned" in the school. this was seriously worrying, therefore i did some things to change it. i went on an sfa course, got hold of some footballs and agreed to run a club (which i dont get paid for).

I do this out of my love or teaching and my love for football, and I think the school is pretty lucky to have someone who gives up their time for this.

my point is that the majority of schools dont do this.

If football is scotlands number 1 sport, shurly we need to be doing more about it at grass roots level. Football doesnt feature in the curriculum however i think this needs to change. I teach 6 and 7 year olds which is the prime age to get them interested. Scotland were good in the 70s and 90s due to children doing more sport and being more active, if this doesnt change we are only going to see a future of kevin kyles and danny foxes.

joe breezy
15-11-2009, 12:55 PM
I'm not having a dig at all teachers but the overtime ban in the 80s led to a ban on school sports.

They said they didn't want to affect education so that's why they didn't have strikes. Strikes would have only meant a few days off.

An overtime ban meant a whole generation missed out on sport.

Shocking own goal that may well have led more kids into delinquency too.

The teacher who took my rugby team was happy to break the ban but because we were rubbish there was no point as we would only have been able to play private schools and would have got slaughtered every week.

Anyway, this is one area you think the SNP would be good at, Scottish patriotism goes up around football so it's in their interests.

Just saw Jackie Stewart on telly this morning and he says he got the Scottish government to take action on recognising dyslexia in schools after one meeting whilst in England there was no chance due to the beurocracy.

sunshine1875
15-11-2009, 01:01 PM
If this is vision I don't know

Under-fire Celtic duo can become Scotland greats, says Paul Hegarty

Headline from the Daily record.........

This is one area of the national team where we have gone backwards at an alarming rate. If Caldwell is our best centre-back, then we are truly stuffed!



Hegarty's quote:
The Scotland No.3 insists he has been impressed with the quality of centre half on show with the national team - despite the fact they are all shipping goals at club level.

Celtic pair Stephen McManus and Gary Caldwell have been in and out of form, Christophe Berra is learning harsh lessons in the Premiership with Wolves and Steven Caldwell is riding a rollercoaster of goals at both ends with Burnley.

ceecee
15-11-2009, 01:47 PM
I don't think it needs teachers anymore. I think in football and probably other sports there is a whole layer of talented volunteers wanting to help and get involved. But there is no structure or leadership to do it from within sport or education. It needs to be made easy.

In Edinburgh there are almost 200 primary school football teams which means at least 200 volunteer "coaches". But the structure and support for all of this is awful. From both SFA and council education. I'm fairly certain it will be the same for other sports.

FFS primary schools hold one single athletics event each year which is the decades old Interscholastics. But why couldn't this be held every month or indeed every week?

Same goes for rugby, cricket, basketball, swimming etc. It just needs leadership and probably links with clubs and high schools (who often have slightly better facilities).

BTW, my own 8 year old had PE last week in which they were doing "balancing". Get a grip...it's pathetic. These are the same curriculum led activities that offer IT to 8 year olds where initial sessions include "powering the PC on" and "creating a password". :bye:

hibee_boy
15-11-2009, 02:04 PM
Good on you mate. If we had more people willing to put the time in to do voluntary work we'd be in much better shape. When I was at secondary school in Haddington the options out of hours were rugby or rugby. We had to play basketball in P.E. Basketball! I don't remember any sport in primary school, I think we played rounders. Thankfully their were a few guys, John Smilie and Jock McLean who ran Haddington Hotspur when I was growing up.

The Scottish Government needs to get involved. I'm surprised the SNP have continued the tradition of saying football is for the SFA to worry about. A sure-fire way to promote their nationalist agenda is through the patriotism that comes from success in sport.

When Scotland excels at anything, particularly football, you'll see a spike in the polls for independence.

I think for years the authorities have just assumed that kids would continue developing just by playing out on the streets all day like most of us did when we were growing but kids these days have the internet and satellite tv and xboxes. We need to continue to invest in proper facilities and coaches to get them out playing again. Its a different world and our governing body and government didn't see it coming.

Their are plenty success stories, the way the French reinvigorated their football set-up, the way the Dutch have played for years. Governments regularly have targets for medals at the Olympics and invest money to achieve those targets, football should be no different. Its not rocket science. We can have a successful team but it needs support, and money, from the government. As long as we expect the SFA to do everything we've no chance. We all know what their priorities are.

Football needs to turn into an election issue because at every level in Scotland we can, and need to, improve.


i teach in haddington...what primary school were you at?

ancient hibee
15-11-2009, 02:17 PM
Is it not the case that when youngsters who are coached at professional clubs get to secondary school the clubs ban them from participating in schools football.This must be a terrific turn off for teachers.

jakedance
15-11-2009, 02:45 PM
i teach in haddington...what primary school were you at?

Kings Meadow, back in the day.

heretoday
15-11-2009, 03:56 PM
Kids are all fat and sitting in front of computers all day. Either that or they are hanging about on street corners up to no good.

Give them a football and they wouldn't know what to do with it.

Andy Bee
15-11-2009, 04:08 PM
Kids are all fat and sitting in front of computers all day. Either that or they are hanging about on street corners up to no good.

Give them a football and they wouldn't know what to do with it.

Rubbish,

I can only talk from my own experiences but out here in West Lothian the game seems to be thriving although I do agree that school football is non existent.

My boy trains on a Wednesday night at the local high school which has three floodlit astro turf pitches, all get halved and every pitch has a youth team training, from soccer school for the under eights to under elevens there must be around eighty kids training all coached by unpaid volunteers.

Polbeth has just recently opened new purpose built changing facilities with a kitchen and offices as has West Calder although for some reason it lies empty and locked until matchday and Broxburn are in the process of building a very impressive facility. The cash is getting back into the game (here at least), the interest from the kids is there it's just a matter of educating the coaches, that's maybe where the pro clubs could help :dunno

jakki
15-11-2009, 05:31 PM
Money can be a problem with school sports.

In the late 70's and early 80's, my kids were at a small primary school in Livingston. Being treasurer of the PTA, the headmaster approached me with the problems of the cost of hiring minibuses to transport the football and netball teams to away games, usually within Livi and during school hours and could the PTA help with this?

I said that we did not need to go to the PTA for funds as I had, which he knew, a 14 seater minibus and would be happy to help out. As my insurance stated that I was "not for hire", I couldn't charge for my time and petrol which I wouldn't have done anyway.A few hours and a few miles of petrol costs twice a fortnight was not much to give to the school. I carried on even after my kids left for secondary until finally my minibus gave up the ghost.

I don't know how they managed after that but within a year the school was closed as uneconomical.

I can boast about furthering Mark Birchill's developemant as he was one of the wee lads I transported to his school's games. (Where is Mark now? Is he still playing professionaly?) BTW his dad was a "well meaning " dad coaching the team.

I think that more parents should volinteer in various ways to help out sports in schools.

Hibby Bairn
15-11-2009, 05:53 PM
I think that more parents should volinteer in various ways to help out sports in schools.

Well done you for the volunteering and help with the mini-bus. That's the way to do it. Get resources, people and local businesses together. It just needs leadership.

Re more parents volunteering. The SFA charges all those "well meaning dads and mums" a fortune for the privelage of giving up their time by giving kids some better quality coaching. About £120 now for the courses to get you to level 3 I think. And they won't put the course content or DVD's online to help people do it without going on the courses. Why? Because it is more about the money than widening the education for volunteers....which they need or the grassroots game would just collapse.

It's a national football disgrace.

fordie2
15-11-2009, 07:28 PM
I don't think it needs teachers anymore. I think in football and probably other sports there is a whole layer of talented volunteers wanting to help and get involved. But there is no structure or leadership to do it from within sport or education. It needs to be made easy.

In Edinburgh there are almost 200 primary school football teams which means at least 200 volunteer "coaches". But the structure and support for all of this is awful. From both SFA and council education. I'm fairly certain it will be the same for other sports.

FFS primary schools hold one single athletics event each year which is the decades old Interscholastics. But why couldn't this be held every month or indeed every week?

Same goes for rugby, cricket, basketball, swimming etc. It just needs leadership and probably links with clubs and high schools (who often have slightly better facilities).

BTW, my own 8 year old had PE last week in which they were doing "balancing". Get a grip...it's pathetic. These are the same curriculum led activities that offer IT to 8 year olds where initial sessions include "powering the PC on" and "creating a password". :bye:

Funding is key here, it all costs money and local authorities don't have the cash to organise events more often, sad but true!

jakki
15-11-2009, 09:07 PM
And that was where I was trying to explain in my post earlier. If parents can help the schools in a little way they can, it could help to allow money in other things ie sports.

However people can be unappreciable. My kids and another 6 used to be bused to school as they were over a certain mileage but the milwas reduced. Within 2 weeks of them walking to school through the "dark path", they had been presented with a knife from a loony. The police were called but there was they could do nothing. As I had my youngest child walking this route, I offered to take them there and collect them from school. Then I passed my driving test and could take them to and from the school in my mini bus. Each parent asked me how much it would cost and I said nothing as I was taking my own kids there. Then I got a phone call from another parent asking me to pick up their kid well of my track but they were willing to pay me. I explained that I couldn't charge but I would do the detour to pick up their child. After 2 years solid, the kids all moved to High School and I expected to get fat on the boxes of chocs as a thank you for 2 years of service. Did I get Fat? Not on your Nelly! not one box of chocs from the 7 kids I had ferried back and forth for 2 years

ceecee
15-11-2009, 09:36 PM
They were obviously thinking about your health. Right I'm off for a Crunchie.

'Mon the Hibs
15-11-2009, 10:00 PM
Interesting points made here.

Its good to see the likes of hibee_boy ( :wink: ) taking the extra time to do this sort of thing, especially teaching kids at the ages of around 7 years old (i.e. the prime age to get them keen).

This can only be a good thing- after school clubs etc. I reckon a lot of parents won't get the chance to play with/teach their kids the game due to work/other commitments, so it's good to see others taking their time to give youngsters the chance.

Something i was thinking about the other day was that there should be more done to get Hibs players (and of course other teams' players too * ) out there after training to go out there and set up regular weekly football camps at local parks/gym halls/etc. to educate youngsters about the game. Also, would get more youngsters excited about playing football when their heroes are teaching them.

Would it be too much to ask to get a bunch of players to take 2 hours a day, 2-3 times a week during the evenings (indoors and outdoors when it's lighter), and especially during the holiday times to do this?? How many hours a week to footballers train/play?

Can the government not fund such a project if needs be?

anyways, just a thought I had....



* Nade may be detrimental to such projects :greengrin

heretoday
15-11-2009, 11:33 PM
Rubbish,

My boy trains on a Wednesday night at the local high school which has three floodlit astro turf pitches, all get halved and every pitch has a youth team training, from soccer school for the under eights to under elevens there must be around eighty kids training all coached by unpaid volunteers.

Polbeth has just recently opened new purpose built changing facilities with a kitchen and offices as has West Calder although for some reason it lies empty and locked until matchday and Broxburn are in the process of building a very impressive facility. The cash is getting back into the game (here at least), the interest from the kids is there it's just a matter of educating the coaches, that's maybe where the pro clubs could help :dunno

Thanks for that and I apologise for being so cynical.

Hibs On Tour
16-11-2009, 12:32 PM
Where is Mark now? Is he still playing professionaly

Saw him a couple of years back in a cocktail bar in Edinburgh, bigging himself up massively to a couple of young ladies. Saying how he was better than Kenny Miller in every way and how he was crap [bear in mind that's supposed to be a mate of his!]. Said also that it was a stick on that Rangers would be in for him for 2m [this was while with Dunfermline]. Ended up getting thrown out for being a complete tit. So far up himself he was like an ever-decreasing circle... :greengrin

hibztilltheend
16-11-2009, 06:45 PM
Kids are all fat and sitting in front of computers all day. Either that or they are hanging about on street corners up to no good.

Give them a football and they wouldn't know what to do with it.

absoute p***

Barney McGrew
16-11-2009, 07:01 PM
(Where is Mark now? Is he still playing professionaly?) BTW his dad was a "well meaning " dad coaching the team.

He signed a one year deal at Killie in the summer and then got injured pre-season. He's started training again now.

His dad has done a lot of coaching at youth levels for years.

sunshine1875
16-11-2009, 07:56 PM
Briefly heard Jim Traynor saying we need changes from the grass-roots up, starting with qualified coaches associated with schools. He must have read my OP!

Personally, I hope that the publicity of sacking Burley / appointing a new manager does not cover-up the need for a major change in Scottish football. Fifteen years ago, we should have acted. We must change now or Scotland may go years before we qualify again for a major championship. Is that our aspiration?


When watching the Japan game, the commentator said a couple of times that Japan expect to get to at least the semi-final. When you look at the quality of their players, the standard of their domestic league and the fact that there are not many of their team playing at the highest level this seemed, to me, to be too high an aspiration.

However, it is good that they have this expectation and I am sure that this started a while ago when they had a vision to improve the standard of play and the quality of their league. Contrast that with ours and I see none.

I remember a live TV show following Scotland's failure to qualify for the World Cup in 1994. Gordon Strachan stated all that was wrong with Scottish football and a lot of it was connected to the failure to commence the football eductaion at an early age (pre-school) and working with these kids all the way through to the pro-teams.

It seems to me that little has improved over the last 15 years. Yes - we can give some examples of some improvement, but is does not seem to be as part of a single co-ordinated plan to improve the football eduction. There also appears to me to be no Vision - where do we want to be in 15 and in 30 years time and what are the actions to get there. What are the success factors along the way that help us to know if we are on track?


So for the visionaries out there with a football brain - what should be our Vision and what are the actions to get there? Some thoughts:

Qualified football coach(es) appointed for each primary school. Would be better than some well-minded Dad with little football education.
Qualified football coach(es) appointed for each secondary school. In my sons school, there is little organised football outwith normal school hours.
Senior / Junior football teams linked to secondary schools with a message that "if you are good enough and have the right social skills then we will start inviting you to our organised training"
Astro football pitches more available with organised training in the early evening or weekends.
Fitness and Lifestyle eductation to all starting in each primary school.
Direction from Government that football, along with other key sports, will be priority sports during the school year. If someone wants to learn rounders, volleyball, badminton etc do it in your own time. What is taught in school seems to be dependant on the PE teachers interests.
Football scholarships to provide learning in both football and other subjects for those that are maybe not good enough yet to go straight to a football career and can learn about other career options at the same time (for example, fitness training etc).
Thoughts? And try to keep this away from the usual Rantic/Hertz stuff - it is what is best for Scotland.

heretoday
16-11-2009, 10:22 PM
absoute p***

Okay. I stand corrected.

Haymaker
17-11-2009, 11:49 AM
The whole thing needs ripping up and starting again. What certainly needs removing is the reliance on 11aside games at young ages... 4v4 needs to be introduced rapidly and made the cornerstone of youth development along with greater education at school, footballing theory from coaches and better access to training areas. I do understand that this all costs but the benefits of a fitter, healthier population will bring benefits for the country as a whole..?


Just my opinion as someone studying for their pro-licence.

davemcbain
17-11-2009, 02:24 PM
What's wrong with the clubs doing their bit? I know that in the west highlands it may be more tricky, but in the central belt and lowlands I see no reason why the likes of Hibs don't ask their players to coach in local schools a couple of mornings/afternoons a week.

I live fairly close to where Chelsea train and there are at least two players at my daughters school a couple of times a week giving coaching sessions. We're lucky enough that it's normally one of the first eleven and a youth player, but in other local schools it can be a couple of second streamers or a coach. It works for the club (helps indoctrinate the next generation of supporters and helps develop the players interest in coaching) it helps the kids (obviously) and gives the teachers at least one hour a week where they can put their feet up.

In my daughters school the kids pay a nominal fee - I think it's £2 a week for equipment. The kids also get a little something at Christmas.

A scheme like this run by Hibs would put the SFA to shame. With 30 players on the books + coaches - you could easily be talking 20 local schools a week with one visit or 40 with two.

I'd take issue with one point the original poster made - "little" has changed in 15 years? If people could see some evidence of the "little" they'd be less irate with the SFA. In 15 years, precisely SFA has changed.

Haymaker
17-11-2009, 02:40 PM
What's wrong with the clubs doing their bit? I know that in the west highlands it may be more tricky, but in the central belt and lowlands I see no reason why the likes of Hibs don't ask their players to coach in local schools a couple of mornings/afternoons a week.

I live fairly close to where Chelsea train and there are at least two players at my daughters school a couple of times a week giving coaching sessions. We're lucky enough that it's normally one of the first eleven and a youth player, but in other local schools it can be a couple of second streamers or a coach. It works for the club (helps indoctrinate the next generation of supporters and helps develop the players interest in coaching) it helps the kids (obviously) and gives the teachers at least one hour a week where they can put their feet up.

In my daughters school the kids pay a nominal fee - I think it's £2 a week for equipment. The kids also get a little something at Christmas.

A scheme like this run by Hibs would put the SFA to shame. With 30 players on the books + coaches - you could easily be talking 20 local schools a week with one visit or 40 with two.

I'd take issue with one point the original poster made - "little" has changed in 15 years? If people could see some evidence of the "little" they'd be less irate with the SFA. In 15 years, precisely SFA has changed.


That is actually a brilliant idea...

Keith_M
17-11-2009, 02:41 PM
Scottish Football - The Current Vision.


- Through the bottom of a Beer Glass

- Over the top of a PS2

- At a buffet in an Executive Hotel in Zurich that you'd never hope to stay in as Chairman of Brechin City.

Hibby Bairn
17-11-2009, 03:57 PM
That is actually a brilliant idea...

I coach a kids team at a local primary school. I approached hibs 3 years ago to see if we could get a player out to show some tricks, get a few photos etc...get the kids inspired to try new things. It was to be 4pm on a Wed afternoon.

Got a knock back. Can't remember the reason. I think something to do with "if we did it for you we'd have to do it for everyone else." Either that or it coincided with the 4pm at Plumpton. :wink:

Barney McGrew
17-11-2009, 04:10 PM
I coach a kids team at a local primary school. I approached hibs 3 years ago to see if we could get a player out to show some tricks, get a few photos etc...get the kids inspired to try new things. It was to be 4pm on a Wed afternoon.

Got a knock back. Can't remember the reason. I think something to do with "if we did it for you we'd have to do it for everyone else." Either that or it coincided with the 4pm at Plumpton. :wink:

It's a sad state of affairs when that's the case. So what if they had to do it for everyone else? One player for one afternoon out of a squad of twenty five shouldn't be too much to ask surely. And it's not just Hibs who will be guilty of this.

If every SPL club did it as a matter of course, then you can bet it would raise interest in the schools.

sunshine1875
18-11-2009, 10:12 AM
I emailed some of the information of this thread to Henry McLeish, who is leading a review on behalf of the SFA.

I received the following response:

Dear Scottish Football Supporter

Thank you for taking the time to submit your ideas and proposals to my review of Scottish Football.

I am absolutely clear that if we are to bring forward proposals to help improve our game, then we must ensure that everyone has their say. That is why it is so important to me that fans have the opportunity to contribute.

Due to the number of responses we are receiving, it may not be possible to respond directly to everyone personally. You have my guarantee, however, that everything that is sent in will be read and that all ideas will be considered.

Once again, my thanks to you for taking the time to get in touch.

Yours

Rt Hon Henry McLeish
Chair, The Scottish Football Review

If you want to email your views, the email address is:

Football.Review@scottishfa.co.uk



When watching the Japan game, the commentator said a couple of times that Japan expect to get to at least the semi-final. When you look at the quality of their players, the standard of their domestic league and the fact that there are not many of their team playing at the highest level this seemed, to me, to be too high an aspiration.

However, it is good that they have this expectation and I am sure that this started a while ago when they had a vision to improve the standard of play and the quality of their league. Contrast that with ours and I see none.

I remember a live TV show following Scotland's failure to qualify for the World Cup in 1994. Gordon Strachan stated all that was wrong with Scottish football and a lot of it was connected to the failure to commence the football eductaion at an early age (pre-school) and working with these kids all the way through to the pro-teams.

It seems to me that little has improved over the last 15 years. Yes - we can give some examples of some improvement, but is does not seem to be as part of a single co-ordinated plan to improve the football eduction. There also appears to me to be no Vision - where do we want to be in 15 and in 30 years time and what are the actions to get there. What are the success factors along the way that help us to know if we are on track?



So for the visionaries out there with a football brain - what should be our Vision and what are the actions to get there? Some thoughts:

Qualified football coach(es) appointed for each primary school. Would be better than some well-minded Dad with little football education.
Qualified football coach(es) appointed for each secondary school. In my sons school, there is little organised football outwith normal school hours.
Senior / Junior football teams linked to secondary schools with a message that "if you are good enough and have the right social skills then we will start inviting you to our organised training"
Astro football pitches more available with organised training in the early evening or weekends.
Fitness and Lifestyle eductation to all starting in each primary school.
Direction from Government that football, along with other key sports, will be priority sports during the school year. If someone wants to learn rounders, volleyball, badminton etc do it in your own time. What is taught in school seems to be dependant on the PE teachers interests.
Football scholarships to provide learning in both football and other subjects for those that are maybe not good enough yet to go straight to a football career and can learn about other career options at the same time (for example, fitness training etc).
Thoughts? And try to keep this away from the usual Rantic/Hertz stuff - it is what is best for Scotland.

sunshine1875
22-11-2009, 03:10 PM
Some interesting comments in the SoS article. Some pasted below:

Edinburgh Council, which has admitted it is not meeting its own miserly target of 1.5 hours of physical activity a week in its schools, let alone the two hours the SNP government pledged to deliver in the 2007 manifesto, "should be strung up and shot". Teachers say there is not enough room in the curriculum. "but for us to say that we can't give kids a decent 1.5 hours of physical activity within a week is just horrendous, absolutely horrendous," says Fleeting.

"Unfortunately, the generation that is currently parenting is the one which has come through with the lifestyle of no activity at all," says Fleeting. "They are used to two cars per family, driving everywhere, eating ready-made meals or takeaways and it's a sad, sad indictment of our society that we have allowed it to happen."

Using the Spartans Community Football Academy as an example, the findings of a social impact report showed that for every £1 invested in the project the community had a return of £7.63, in terms of the impact on the health, education and policing budgets, both short-term and long-term.

The truth is that there is very little Scottish football on terrestrial TV and the only regular highlights show is on at 11.20pm on a school night. But on top of TV coverage, there has to be more work in the communities. Top players should do more school visits while clubs and the SFA should host webpage chats with players about diet, ambitions and tips.

http://sport.scotsman.com/sport/-How-do-we-stop.5846684.jp


When watching the Japan game, the commentator said a couple of times that Japan expect to get to at least the semi-final. When you look at the quality of their players, the standard of their domestic league and the fact that there are not many of their team playing at the highest level this seemed, to me, to be too high an aspiration.

However, it is good that they have this expectation and I am sure that this started a while ago when they had a vision to improve the standard of play and the quality of their league. Contrast that with ours and I see none.

I remember a live TV show following Scotland's failure to qualify for the World Cup in 1994. Gordon Strachan stated all that was wrong with Scottish football and a lot of it was connected to the failure to commence the football eductaion at an early age (pre-school) and working with these kids all the way through to the pro-teams.

It seems to me that little has improved over the last 15 years. Yes - we can give some examples of some improvement, but is does not seem to be as part of a single co-ordinated plan to improve the football eduction. There also appears to me to be no Vision - where do we want to be in 15 and in 30 years time and what are the actions to get there. What are the success factors along the way that help us to know if we are on track?


So for the visionaries out there with a football brain - what should be our Vision and what are the actions to get there? Some thoughts:

Qualified football coach(es) appointed for each primary school. Would be better than some well-minded Dad with little football education.
Qualified football coach(es) appointed for each secondary school. In my sons school, there is little organised football outwith normal school hours.
Senior / Junior football teams linked to secondary schools with a message that "if you are good enough and have the right social skills then we will start inviting you to our organised training"
Astro football pitches more available with organised training in the early evening or weekends.
Fitness and Lifestyle eductation to all starting in each primary school.
Direction from Government that football, along with other key sports, will be priority sports during the school year. If someone wants to learn rounders, volleyball, badminton etc do it in your own time. What is taught in school seems to be dependant on the PE teachers interests.
Football scholarships to provide learning in both football and other subjects for those that are maybe not good enough yet to go straight to a football career and can learn about other career options at the same time (for example, fitness training etc).
Thoughts? And try to keep this away from the usual Rantic/Hertz stuff - it is what is best for Scotland.