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MacBean
13-10-2009, 08:33 AM
SSN is rabbling on about the debate whether Driver should play for Scotland or not.

I for one would love to see him play for Scotland and the fact he has played for 'their' U-21's and is a Yam, doesn't bother me in the slightest.

The boy was schooled and raised in Scotland, he learned his trade up here and Scotland created the footballer that he is.
I think he is a great footballer and exactly the kind of player that the Scottish National team need.
Apologies if added already, but i couldn't see a thread regarding this.

Aye for Scotland, or Naw?

Your thoughts?





EDIT: Question for those of you who think that he is not good enough to play for our national country (not wanting to cause an argument, just a debate):

IF say, a player of Scott Brown's ability was born in England but raised in Scotland, schooled by Scotland, and coached football by Scotland, would you have an issue with him playing for the national side?

Frazerbob
13-10-2009, 08:36 AM
Where's the "No, he's pish" option?

johnrebus
13-10-2009, 08:40 AM
Where's the "No, he's pish" option?


:agree:

jakedance
13-10-2009, 08:47 AM
I'm easy about it. He's more Scottish than some cockney with a Scottish granny.

MB62
13-10-2009, 08:47 AM
Having listened to Gordon Smith's explanation last night on why he should qualify, I agree he should be available for consideration under the new rule.
The question of whether is he is good enough or not is a different one.

Phil MaGlass
13-10-2009, 08:48 AM
Hes pi5h, I voted naw hes english but wouldnt it have been less biased if it was a simple yes/no
or
1.yes
2.no
3.no cos hes english
4.yes we need him
5.no dont need him he is pi5h.
6.hes a jambo therefore he IS pi5h and we dont need him
7 hes english, hes pi5h and hes a jambo we dont need him.

I would rather we didnt play english players, but since he has been living most of his days here, was schooled here is integrated and he is almost Scottish, then no.:greengrin my reason is he just is not good enough.then again I have been wrong so many times before, this one will probably come back and bite me on the er5e

MB62
13-10-2009, 09:01 AM
Hes pi5h, I voted naw hes english but wouldnt it have been less biased if it was a simple yes/no
or
1.yes
2.no
3.no cos hes english
4.yes we need him
5.no dont need him he is pi5h.
6.hes a jambo therefore he IS pi5h and we dont need him
7 hes english, hes pi5h and hes a jambo we dont need him.

I would rather we didnt play english players, but since he has been living most of his days here, was schooled here is integrated and he is almost Scottish, then no.:greengrin my reason is he just is not good enough.then again I have been wrong so many times before, this one will probably come back and bite me on the er5e


He wouldn't be the first englishman to play for Scotland.

Steve20
13-10-2009, 09:09 AM
Couldn't care less.

However, he is really not as good as he is being made out to be. He is an ok player. Nothing more.

Cocaine&Caviar
13-10-2009, 09:12 AM
More Scottish than Commons and Morisson...

Bayern Bru
13-10-2009, 09:17 AM
I've seen nothing to suggest that he should be a shoe-in for inclusion in any international team. At best he's an average player with an overhyped reputation. There are some players you watch and think 'wow, he's got something.' Driver is not one of these players IMO.

Whether he's 'less Scottish' than someone else doesn't come into it really. Having said that, perhaps better the devil you know with someone like Driver, rather than picking someone with vague Scottish ancestry who isn't good enough for their main country...
:devil:

Andy74
13-10-2009, 09:18 AM
I've never seen the fuss about him myself - seems to appear evey few months or so and does little in between.

Is he a better wide left player than Riordan?

Barney McGrew
13-10-2009, 09:22 AM
I voted no opinion. I don't care if he was born in England, or that he plays for them.

It's just that he's not good enough to get into what is currently a very poor Scotland squad in the first place.

Phil MaGlass
13-10-2009, 09:48 AM
mibbe one of the factors in people saying that he is good enough for Scotland mostly comes from Jambos, where they only have one good Scottish player in Wallace, an average player i.e Driver would look like a good player in the eyes of a Jambo compared to the pi5h they have playing for them now, they must think Wallace is the next best thing tae sliced bread,he must be god in their eyes.

offshorehibby
13-10-2009, 09:51 AM
I put no opinion because not bothered one way or another.

Although the new rule change i fully agree with, it will allow the kids of families who have chosen Scotland as their country to settle in to play for Scotland.

blackpoolhibs
13-10-2009, 09:53 AM
Obviously he would be no good for scotland, should he ever come up against DVZ in an international. I cant see what he would bring?

duffers
13-10-2009, 09:58 AM
I dont agree with alot of the comments being posted here.
Personally i think Driver is a great player and i would give him a chance at scotland.If he played for Hibs, i think alot of peoples attitude towards him would change.He wont be in the SPL for much longer.

Now for me to be shot down..

Phil MaGlass
13-10-2009, 10:05 AM
BEEN LOOKING FOR A SHOT DOWN SMILEY, CANT SEEM TO FIND ONE, oops capitals

H18sry
13-10-2009, 10:08 AM
No he is English, no Scottish heritage at all, no bloodline, no game I am afraid let him rot in the one cap wonder bin for the Engerland :bye:

JoeT
13-10-2009, 10:11 AM
I dont agree with alot of the comments being posted here.
Personally i think Driver is a great player and i would give him a chance at scotland.If he played for Hibs, i think alot of peoples attitude towards him would change.He wont be in the SPL for much longer.

Now for me to be shot down..


Well if he is born in England and soon to play and live in England then no thanks

duffers
13-10-2009, 10:15 AM
Well if he is born in England and soon to play and live in England then no thanks

What about Commons, Morrison etc.
Its not like he would be the exception to the rule.
You cant have different rules for different players.

Andy74
13-10-2009, 10:15 AM
I dont agree with alot of the comments being posted here.
Personally i think Driver is a great player and i would give him a chance at scotland.If he played for Hibs, i think alot of peoples attitude towards him would change.He wont be in the SPL for much longer.

Now for me to be shot down..

Where exactly would he play in the current Hibs team?

Ahead of Riordan?

MacBean
13-10-2009, 10:15 AM
all very fair comments.

Perhaps it has come across as a quality of player debate rather than the national status

Question for those of you who think that he is not good enough to play for our national country (not wanting to cause an argument, just a debate):

IF say, a player of Scott Brown's ability was born in England but raised in Scotland, schooled by Scotland, and coached football by Scotland, would you have an issue with him playing for the national side?

(sorry if i digressed a little in the OP however the nationality thing was my main question)

GGTTH

heretoday
13-10-2009, 10:17 AM
I'm afraid I couldn't care less.

duffers
13-10-2009, 10:19 AM
Where exactly would he play in the current Hibs team?

Ahead of Riordan?

This is about Scotland though...
But to answer your question, id have him on the left with Riordan up top

Andy74
13-10-2009, 10:22 AM
This is about Scotland though...
But to answer your question, id have him on the left with Riordan up top

You did say, if he played for Hibs..

I'm not so sure he would, so should he really be getting a game for Scotland when Riordan himself can't get in?

poolman
13-10-2009, 10:25 AM
I dont agree with alot of the comments being posted here.
Personally i think Driver is a great player and i would give him a chance at scotland.If he played for Hibs, i think alot of peoples attitude towards him would change.He wont be in the SPL for much longer.

Now for me to be shot down..


He's a good player but in no way a great player

basehibby
13-10-2009, 10:26 AM
Assuming he'd qualify for Scotland then I'd vote yes - why not?

From what I've seen he's a dangerous player down that right wing and has pace to burn - probably the Yams' most potent threat right now (OK I know that's not saying much but still...). Also he has most of his career in front of him and will no doubt improve a fair bit yet - I think he'd be an asset to the Scottish squad so definately yes.

dangermouse
13-10-2009, 10:31 AM
He is English so should not be eligible. If he is allowed to play then the Scottish National Team will be made up of foreign has beens like Driver, Novo et al who don't have a full international cap for their country pushing players like Deek even further down the pecking order which is blatantly unfair.

duffers
13-10-2009, 10:33 AM
You did say, if he played for Hibs..

I'm not so sure he would, so should he really be getting a game for Scotland when Riordan himself can't get in?

haha i meant as in if he was a hibs player, there would be more people saying he should play for Scotland, but as he's a Hearts player i think alot of people are taking that into perspective when answering the op.

Like i said earlier, i think he should be given a chance with Scotland -As should Deeks- and see there what he has to offer.

In the past we've had Gavin Rae, Alexander, Gary Teale all play in Big games for us, and i would say Riordan and Driver are better than all of them.

H18sry
13-10-2009, 10:44 AM
What about Commons, Morrison etc.
Its not like he would be the exception to the rule.
You cant have different rules for different players.

Scottish bloodline's, Driver has nothing to link him to Scotland :dummytit:

the_ginger_hibee
13-10-2009, 10:54 AM
I dont mind him playing for Scotland, but this hype...:bitchy:

I've hardly seen the boy do anything of note at all, even less so lately with their non-scoring strikeforce.

Am I really missing so much? Is this guy really as good as everyone makes out? I seriously doubt it, and think the latest bout of hype is from the Scottish journos salivating at the prospect of a '1-up' on the English. Which is rare for us these days.

MacBean
13-10-2009, 10:55 AM
Scottish bloodline's, Driver has nothing to link him to Scotland :dummytit:


however he was schooled and brought up in Scotland,and has a deeper understanding of the Scottish way of life than the other bloodline Englishmen.
Scotland taught him his trade too. He may want to repay the country for giving him such a good lifestyle.

Dorman of St Mirren thinks the same of Wales as does Shawcross of Stoke.

On a much smaller scale and perhaps not really relevant, but mirrors the idea behind my point, I was born in Perth and moved to Edinburgh when i was 3. I see myself as an edinburgh boy because i was schooled and brought up here.

H18sry
13-10-2009, 10:57 AM
however he was schooled and brought up in Scotland,and has a deeper understanding of the Scottish way of life than the other bloodline Englishmen.
Scotland taught him his trade too. He may want to repay the country for giving him such a good lifestyle.

Dorman of St Mirren thinks the same of Wales as does Shawcross of Stoke.

On a much smaller scale and perhaps not really relevant, but mirrors the idea behind my point, I was born in Perth and moved to Edinburgh when i was 3. I see myself as an edinburgh boy because i was schooled and brought up here.

But have you played for Perth under 21's :devil:

MacBean
13-10-2009, 10:59 AM
But have you played for Perth under 21's :devil:


Ive played with a couple of Perth U-21's :wink: :greengrin


EDIT: Girls might i add (all over 18:wink:)

GreenOnions
13-10-2009, 11:02 AM
IMHO the debate should not be about how good he is but whether or not you think that non-Scottish players should be able to play for Scotland due to some other criterion. I don't think we should allow that personally.

As to whether he's needed - well - I would imagine and hope that Riordan, McFadden and Maloney are all ahead of him with regard to the wide left position.

MacBean
13-10-2009, 11:10 AM
IMHO the debate should not be about how good he is but whether or not you think that non-Scottish players should be able to play for Scotland due to some other criterion. I don't think we should allow that personally.

As to whether he's needed - well - I would imagine and hope that Riordan, McFadden and Maloney are all ahead of him with regard to the wide left position.


Exactly what im trying to ask - however ive not been too clear in that !!

NoTottiNoParty
13-10-2009, 11:14 AM
I'd love to see everyones opinions (including Gordon Smith's) if a scottish born wonderkid with no blood relations, was schooled for 5 years in say Newcastle and chose to play for England!! i'm sure some peoples attitudes would change.

Golden Bear
13-10-2009, 11:17 AM
Legislation such as this will dilute international football even further. Money will rule the roost rather than country of birth.

Yet another faux pas by Gordon Smith and his cohorts. The guy's a self opinionated ass hole - always has been and always will be.

Andy74
13-10-2009, 11:19 AM
IMHO the debate should not be about how good he is but whether or not you think that non-Scottish players should be able to play for Scotland due to some other criterion. I don't think we should allow that personally.

As to whether he's needed - well - I would imagine and hope that Riordan, McFadden and Maloney are all ahead of him with regard to the wide left position.

Looks like we'd have to count Conway in ahead of Riordan. The guy that only got in the squad because of call offs and then only because Robertson of Dundee Utd couldn't be one of the reserves. The same guy who admits he's been off form this year and yet plays most of the game.

Andy74
13-10-2009, 11:20 AM
Legislation such as this will dilute international football even further. Money will rule the roost rather than country of birth.

Yet another faux pas by Gordon Smith and his cohorts. The guy's a self opinionated ass hole - always has been and always will be.

You could presumably lure kids to your country to be schooled for 5 yrs thus buy your way to a better national team?

MacBean
13-10-2009, 11:22 AM
I'd love to see everyones opinions (including Gordon Smith's) if a scottish born wonderkid with no blood relations, was schooled for 5 years in say Newcastle and chose to play for England!! i'm sure some peoples attitudes would change.

this will NEVER happen.
We have Darren Fletcher, who plays for one of the biggest and best clubs in the world, yet he loves playing for Scotland. We Scots are a patriotic bunch. My cousin lived in Scotland til he was 12. He then moved to ROI and went to high school there and college until he was 20. He still loves the fact he is Scottish and boasts it.

the_ginger_hibee
13-10-2009, 11:27 AM
this will NEVER happen.
We have Darren Fletcher, who plays for one of the biggest and best clubs in the world, yet he loves playing for Scotland. We Scots are a patriotic bunch. My cousin lived in Scotland til he was 12. He then moved to ROI and went to high school there and college until he was 20. He still loves the fact he is Scottish and boasts it.

Whens McGeady and McCarthy getting called up to the Scotland team then?

MacBean
13-10-2009, 11:28 AM
You could presumably lure kids to your country to be schooled for 5 yrs thus buy your way to a better national team?


surely your not suggesting we do a chelsea :wink:

Danderhall Hibs
13-10-2009, 11:30 AM
No he is English, no Scottish heritage at all, no bloodline, no game I am afraid let him rot in the one cap wonder bin for the Engerland :bye:

He's not had a cap for Engerland. That's just part of the myth. He got a game for their under 21s when they rested the 1st team up for the Euro QF.

MacBean
13-10-2009, 11:34 AM
Whens McGeady and McCarthy getting called up to the Scotland team then?

Touche! :flamed:

:dizzy:

H18sry
13-10-2009, 11:36 AM
Legislation such as this will dilute international football even further. Money will rule the roost rather than country of birth.

Yet another faux pas by Gordon Smith and his cohorts. The guy's a self opinionated ass hole - always has been and always will be.

The real reason behind this is for asylum seekers to have an adopted country to play for, and rumour has it a wonder kid is about to appear in Scottish football, who has lived here for a few years but does not have a country to play for and GS and the rest of the blazers are breaking there necks to get this legislation through so they can "adopt him" in to the SFA player pool.

500miles
13-10-2009, 11:37 AM
I have no qualms about his eligibility. If he wishes to adopt Scotland as his national team, then I believe he has every right.

However, I don't think he's half as good as he's made out to be, and struggles against half decent fullbacks. Although he can destroy poor ones.

H18sry
13-10-2009, 11:38 AM
He's not had a cap for Engerland. That's just part of the myth. He got a game for their under 21s when they rested the 1st team up for the Euro QF.

He was capped by the under 21's in an international tournement, ok being pedantic it's not a full cap, but a cap none the less. :rolleyes:

ronaldo7
13-10-2009, 11:39 AM
We have enough in the left sided department imo.

Maloney
Commons
Deek
Conroy

He would struggle to get into the team imo. He had a good first season, but has struggled this season and is average to say the least.

NO THANKS

NoTottiNoParty
13-10-2009, 11:50 AM
this will NEVER happen.
We have Darren Fletcher, who plays for one of the biggest and best clubs in the world, yet he loves playing for Scotland. We Scots are a patriotic bunch. My cousin lived in Scotland til he was 12. He then moved to ROI and went to high school there and college until he was 20. He still loves the fact he is Scottish and boasts it.

you offer someone the chance of winning a world cup or failing to even make it and i bet some people would think twice. Not everyone is like you're cousin i'm afraid

aberhibsfc
13-10-2009, 11:50 AM
Could be a case of the grass is greener. However I think we should cap him.

He ain't going to come out himself and say as if Scotland don't pick him he's left high and dry.

Burley should grow some and name him in the next friendly.

He should also sort out the feud between him and Boyd.

We lost 4 players this capaign which he has to take some responsibility for. McCulloch fair enough wants to concentrate on club, fine. Ferguson also raises debate. But we should be able to cap McGregor if necessary and Boyd situation should be resolved. The Euro qualifiers are too important for playground brinkmanship.

3pm
13-10-2009, 11:55 AM
I remember a tale about our very own Joe Baker having to play for England even though he felt Scottish.

If the laddie wants to play then let him. He played for the U-21's but these rules weren't in place at the time so who cares? Most people would have done the same thing in his position.

He's a contender for a place in the Scotland squad without doubt. He's a decent player (worth £5m by some :cool2: ), but it's not the kind of thing that'll keep Dode Burley in a job one way or another.

Just for the 'Naw, he's English' brigade....what did you do when Don Hutchison scored @ Wembley? :confused:

Andy.1875
13-10-2009, 11:55 AM
Whens McGeady and McCarthy getting called up to the Scotland team then?

Did McGeady not chose Ireland because he thought they had a better chance of qualifying for the World Cup?

Danderhall Hibs
13-10-2009, 11:56 AM
He was capped by the under 21's in an international tournement, ok being pedantic it's not a full cap, but a cap none the less. :rolleyes:

I thought you were maybe being swayed by the mis-information about it - the EEN and KB were in full "England international Driver" mode earlier this year.

Danderhall Hibs
13-10-2009, 11:58 AM
Did McGeady not chose Ireland because he thought they had a better chance of qualifying for the World Cup?

It depends on what day you ask him. Some days it’s because his grandad asked him to. Others it’s because the SFA didn’t let him play Scottish Schools after he had left school.

Keith_M
13-10-2009, 12:49 PM
....the fact he has played for 'their' U-21's and is a Yam, doesn't bother me in the slightest.


That doesn't bother me either, but people playing for a country of which they, their parents or even their grandparents, are neither nationals of or were even born in, does.



IF say, a player of Scott Brown's ability was born in England but raised in Scotland, schooled by Scotland, and coached football by Scotland, would you have an issue with him playing for the national side?

If he had already chosen his country by playing for their U21's, then yes, I'm afraid that would have been the end of it.

Mag7
13-10-2009, 12:51 PM
Where's the 'Naw - he's a Jambo' option?

Cocaine&Caviar
13-10-2009, 01:24 PM
We have enough in the left sided department imo.

Maloney
Commons
Deek
Conroy

He would struggle to get into the team imo. He had a good first season, but has struggled this season and is average to say the least.

NO THANKS

Maloney in my opinion is naturally a central player but has to be accomodated on the Left.

Riordan is a striker unless played in a 451 or 433...

and I'd have Driver ahead of Conroy every day of the week.

We, as a nation actually have very little in terms of left footed, left wingers...

Tha Cabbage Kid
13-10-2009, 01:50 PM
it seems an easy one for me!!!

if he had the choice to play for any country in the world who would it be??

and if he replied with any othercounrty than Scotland, he doesnt deserve to put the dark blue jersey!

if the laddie wants to play for scotland and no other team then hes the man for us!

we need a team for james mcfaddens! 100% for scotland! there are too many non commiters in our past teams!

so my vote goes to no opinion due to there not being one for if he wants it more than anything

HibbyAndy
13-10-2009, 02:09 PM
One good game in 5 doesnt merit a scotland call up.

Hearts fud.

Sir David Gray
13-10-2009, 02:22 PM
I remember this debate was raised a few months ago and I am just going to repeat what I said on that thread.

I think Andy Driver is a good player, I think he is good enough to get into the present Scotland squad and maybe in the near future he would be good enough to be a regular.

BUT

He's not Scottish and he has no Scottish parents or grandparents so for those reasons alone, I don't believe that he should be considered for selection by George Burley. The question that should be asked of him is very simple;

If England and Scotland both came in at the same time and both asked you to play for them, which country would you choose?

Driver's answer (quite naturally) would be England as that is his country.

He has basically said in the past that his main motivation for wanting to play for Scotland is that he wants to play international football and he feels that the most realistic way for him to achieve that goal is for him to play for Scotland. However, if Capello came in for him, he wouldn't give Scotland a second thought.

I think it's bad enough that we are giving caps to English players with Scottish grandparents who, like Driver, wouldn't care less about Scotland if they were good enough to get a call up by England. But if we start going down the route of capping players who are not Scottish whatsoever, I think it makes a complete mockery of international football.

If Driver gets called up by Scotland, my already limited interest in the Scotland national team will diminish even further and I suspect many more will feel the same way.

I would rather lend my support to a Scottish team that is full of Scottish players, but which might not be very good than support a team that might be slightly better, but is filled with players who aren't Scottish and are only playing for us because they can't get a game for their first choice.

International football is not like club football. You can't pick and choose your country and have a first and second choice. If you're not good enough to play for the country of your birth, or that of your immediate family, then I'm afraid that's just tough.

I chose the "no" option, by the way. :greengrin

Exiled Hibby
13-10-2009, 02:23 PM
If it's decided he's good enough, then pick him. We need all the good players we can get.
IMO he's not yet good enough, although that might change in future, and anyways I dont pick the team!
Any chance we could get a few top Spanish youngsters to go to school here for a while? That would help.

Randerson_4
13-10-2009, 02:24 PM
The real reason behind this is for asylum seekers to have an adopted country to play for, and rumour has it a wonder kid is about to appear in Scottish football, who has lived here for a few years but does not have a country to play for and GS and the rest of the blazers are breaking there necks to get this legislation through so they can "adopt him" in to the SFA player pool.

Have heard something about this boy, on Celtics books? But to change the rules for him is a joke. But hey its the SFA so we shouldnt be surprised

As for Driver. It isnt about whether he wants to play or not. Thats what gets me about international football. You dont get to pick who you play for. you either play for your country or not at all. Might be easy for me to sit here and say that, but the situation is farcical! Im sure I read somewhere he said he would play for 'the country that gives him the best chance of international football'. Im sorry but thats not how it works. He is ENGLISH and should be playing for the ENGLAND national team.

Tha Cabbage Kid
13-10-2009, 04:04 PM
I remember this debate was raised a few months ago and I am just going to repeat what I said on that thread.

I think Andy Driver is a good player, I think he is good enough to get into the present Scotland squad and maybe in the near future he would be good enough to be a regular.

BUT

He's not Scottish and he has no Scottish parents or grandparents so for those reasons alone, I don't believe that he should be considered for selection by George Burley. The question that should be asked of him is very simple;

If England and Scotland both came in at the same time and both asked you to play for them, which country would you choose?

Driver's answer (quite naturally) would be England as that is his country.

He has basically said in the past that his main motivation for wanting to play for Scotland is that he wants to play international football and he feels that the most realistic way for him to achieve that goal is for him to play for Scotland. However, if Capello came in for him, he wouldn't give Scotland a second thought.

I think it's bad enough that we are giving caps to English players with Scottish grandparents who, like Driver, wouldn't care less about Scotland if they were good enough to get a call up by England. But if we start going down the route of capping players who are not Scottish whatsoever, I think it makes a complete mockery of international football.

If Driver gets called up by Scotland, my already limited interest in the Scotland national team will diminish even further and I suspect many more will feel the same way.

I would rather lend my support to a Scottish team that is full of Scottish players, but which might not be very good than support a team that might be slightly better, but is filled with players who aren't Scottish and are only playing for us because they can't get a game for their first choice.

International football is not like club football. You can't pick and choose your country and have a first and second choice. If you're not good enough to play for the country of your birth, or that of your immediate family, then I'm afraid that's just tough.

I chose the "no" option, by the way. :greengrin


my thoughts exactly!!!!

Hibercelona
13-10-2009, 04:13 PM
Driver would be a great addition to the Scotland squad IMO. :agree:



Mind you... Nade would probably be a great addition to the current Scotland squad. :duck:

Billychaotic182
13-10-2009, 05:34 PM
If he got a call up it would rule out a born and bread scottish player out the team so no

Betty Boop
13-10-2009, 05:36 PM
Somali born Islam Feruz of Celtic, has been called up for the U17 Scotland squad. Is he the first under the new ruling?

clerriehibs
13-10-2009, 05:41 PM
He's out and out English. No offence to the guy, but if international teams start picking anyone they can who isn't playing for another country, then what's the point of INTERNATIONAL football. If we do start picking the likes of Driver (and I include the Fox and Iwelumo types who are only in it for a granny), then all we have is another version of club football.

It wouldn't be stretching the point too much to say that one day the Scotland team might be full of 100% English (or 100% NOT Scottish) players ... where does that leave the national identity and pride then? We could take great pride in being the national team that can find unwanted players from other nations and give them a game.

Maybe we'd get lucky with these cast-offs, and make it to a world cup finals. Where's the national honour in qualifying with a team of NON-Scots, guys that would rather play for another country but were never going to get the chance?

H18sry
13-10-2009, 05:47 PM
He's out and out English. No offence to the guy, but if international teams start picking anyone they can who isn't playing for another country, then what's the point of INTERNATIONAL football. If we do start picking the likes of Driver (and I include the Fox and Iwelumo types who are only in it for a granny), then all we have is another version of club football.

It wouldn't be stretching the point too much to say that one day the Scotland team might be full of 100% English (or 100% NOT Scottish) players ... where does that leave the national identity and pride then? We could take great pride in being the national team that can find unwanted players from other nations and give them a game.

Maybe we'd get lucky with these cast-offs, and make it to a world cup finals. Where's the national honour in qualifying with a team of NON-Scots, guys that would rather play for another country but were never going to get the chance?

He was born and bred in Coatbridge and last time I looked that was in Scotland :greengrin

the_ginger_hibee
13-10-2009, 06:09 PM
He was born and bred in Coatbridge and last time I looked that was in Scotland :greengrin

Glad someone pulled this up. He's got a broader accent than me :greengrin

HibbyAndy
13-10-2009, 06:23 PM
Glad someone pulled this up. He's got a broader accent than me :greengrin

Ken.

I feel thats the right answer

Puddocky
13-10-2009, 09:15 PM
International football is not like club football. You can't pick and choose your country and have a first and second choice. If you're not good enough to play for the country of your birth, or that of your immediate family, then I'm afraid that's just tough.



Except that the rules say you can pick and choose - it's exactly what happens with players who have a grandparent born in another country. If you happened to have one grandparent born in each of Scotland, England, Ireland and Wales, you'd have a choice of 4 countries to represent.

I'd sooner see us pick a player who is a product of Scottish coaching, than a guy like, for example, Matt Elliott (remember him?) who was/is about as Scottish as Jimmy Hill, but supposedly entitled to play for us from 25% Scottish ancestry.

Hibster
13-10-2009, 09:45 PM
If he had already chosen his country by playing for their U21's, then yes, I'm afraid that would have been the end of it.

But at the time of accepting the offer to play for England U21s, as far as he knew he was never going to be able to play for Scotland. So it was either England, or no international football. What was he meant to do?



He has basically said in the past that his main motivation for wanting to play for Scotland is that he wants to play international football and he feels that the most realistic way for him to achieve that goal is for him to play for Scotland. However, if Capello came in for him, he wouldn't give Scotland a second thought.

Did he really say that? I'm sure I read in an interview a couple of years ago that he saw himself as Scottish and wanted to play for Scotland, and was annoyed that he wasn't able to do so. Maybe I'm remembering it wrong though


He's not Scottish and he has no Scottish parents or grandparents so for those reasons alone, I don't believe that he should be considered for selection by George Burley

Don't think its that simple. What about someone with no Scottish family, but who's been living here since they were a few months old?

If Driver sees himself as Scottish - which having lived here for so long he'd be entitled to do - I'd have absolutely no problem with him playing for Scotland. In fact I'd prefer him, as someone who's lived here for most of his life and has probably grown up supporting Scotland, over someone like Danny Fox who up until a few months ago had probably never given playing for Scotland a second thought

Sir David Gray
13-10-2009, 10:01 PM
Did he really say that? I'm sure I read in an interview a couple of years ago that he saw himself as Scottish and wanted to play for Scotland, and was annoyed that he wasn't able to do so. Maybe I'm remembering it wrong though.

This is a quote from an interview that he gave back in March of this year;

I want to play international football and the best chance for me, no disrespect, is Scotland.

Taken from here (http://sport.scotsman.com/heartofmidlothianfc/I-want-to-play-for.5051143.jp).

Mag7
13-10-2009, 10:16 PM
He's out and out English. No offence to the guy, but if international teams start picking anyone they can who isn't playing for another country, then what's the point of INTERNATIONAL football. If we do start picking the likes of Driver (and I include the Fox and Iwelumo types who are only in it for a granny), then all we have is another version of club football.

It wouldn't be stretching the point too much to say that one day the Scotland team might be full of 100% English (or 100% NOT Scottish) players ... where does that leave the national identity and pride then? We could take great pride in being the national team that can find unwanted players from other nations and give them a game.

Maybe we'd get lucky with these cast-offs, and make it to a world cup finals. Where's the national honour in qualifying with a team of NON-Scots, guys that would rather play for another country but were never going to get the chance?

Well put. As I've said on another thread, if things have got this desperate then it's time to start thinking about ditching the national side in favour of a UK team (fuelled by a UK league).

Phil MaGlass
14-10-2009, 09:26 AM
Still on the Driver theme, I would like to add that even though I dont rate him I think the response from Burley was a bit pathetic and he should be doing all that is possible to get players play for Scotland.I mean we have missed one or two players already through SFA incompetence and that for me is one or two too many.

http://sport.scotsman.com/sport/Goalposts-moved-but-it39s-up.5730193.jp

GieTheBaTaeReilly
14-10-2009, 09:50 AM
A few thoughts:

1. If a player has 5 years schooling in Scotland, then surely he has got at least 6 elsewhere?? (I'm basing that on 7 years primary and at least 4 years secondary school?)

2. Does college/uni count? Could we have had Lionel Messi if he'd done a 5 year day-release course in spot-welding at Telford?

3. Does the 5 years schooling have to be consecutive?

4. Does the player have to live in Scotland while being schooled here? I'm thinking of someone living near the border and crossing the border to go to school.

5. What if the reverse of the Driver situation happened, and he was initially schooled in Scotland but subsequently moved to England.

I think the rules are rubbish and it should be born in Scotland only, but since the rules are there we should use them to our advantage.

Edit*

6. How come 5 years schooling, when some ex-internationals obviously have none. Paul Lambert anyone?

Cocaine&Caviar
14-10-2009, 10:16 AM
A tad off topic, but Wales are now considering a Dorman call up following the rule change....

Godsahibby
14-10-2009, 10:17 AM
If he has been brought up in Scotland since a young age then there is a simple way to work out if he should be considered Scottish, just have to ask the question, if Scotland played England who would you want to win?

Hibster
14-10-2009, 10:29 AM
I think the rules are rubbish and it should be born in Scotland only, but since the rules are there we should use them to our advantage.

I disagree. To me, place of birth is almost irrelevant. Where the person identifies with, and how he views his nationality, is far more important.

I mean, imagine an American couple give birth to a child while on holiday in Scotland, then go back to America to raise the child. Should that person have a better claim to being Scottish, and playing for the national team, than someone who has lived here since he was a few months old, has grown up thinking of himself as Scottish, but hasn't got any Scottish family? Which of those two would you prefer to see represent Scotland?

MacBean
14-10-2009, 10:36 AM
I have just learned from a yam colleague that Driver actually played for Scotland School boys against England

MacBean
14-10-2009, 10:42 AM
A few thoughts:

1. If a player has 5 years schooling in Scotland, then surely he has got at least 6 elsewhere?? (I'm basing that on 7 years primary and at least 4 years secondary school?)

2. Does college/uni count? Could we have had Lionel Messi if he'd done a 5 year day-release course in spot-welding at Telford?

3. Does the 5 years schooling have to be consecutive?

4. Does the player have to live in Scotland while being schooled here? I'm thinking of someone living near the border and crossing the border to go to school.

5. What if the reverse of the Driver situation happened, and he was initially schooled in Scotland but subsequently moved to England.

I think the rules are rubbish and it should be born in Scotland only, but since the rules are there we should use them to our advantage.

Edit*

6. How come 5 years schooling, when some ex-internationals obviously have none. Paul Lambert anyone?

1. It's a minimum of 5 years Schooling, however as far as i am aware Driver was in Scotland for all of his school days.

2. IIRC its only compulsory school

3. Not sure on that one, good question!

4. I would imagine that Scottish Schools wouldn't take someone from across the border if they had a catchment area, however i think it wouldn't count because of the childs area of residence

5. do you mean if Driver was Scottish and schooled all the way in Scotland and then Moved to England with no English Heritage? - if so then he would not be able to play for England.

If you mean he moved back to england after Scottish schooling - he would still be eligible to play for Scotland.

6. Lambert was born here, he is Scottish. Others have Scottish Parents / Grand parents

Cocaine&Caviar
14-10-2009, 10:45 AM
This is a quote from an interview that he gave back in March of this year;

I want to play international football and the best chance for me, no disrespect, is Scotland.

Taken from here (http://sport.scotsman.com/heartofmidlothianfc/I-want-to-play-for.5051143.jp).

I cant find it just now, but he has also said in an interview that all his friends are Scottish, his girlfriend is Scottish, and his children with her will be raised Scottish; i think that shows a love of the country...


Driver actually played for Scotland School boys against England

and Scored, and Celebrated...

I think too big a deal is being made of this rule, which has been in effect for years, just not by the Home Nations. Liedson for example, born and bred Brazilian but has been capped by Portugal on a residency rule...

This also happens in Rugby Union, all the time; see Vainokolo for England...

MacBean
14-10-2009, 11:24 AM
and Scored, and Celebrated...

I think too big a deal is being made of this rule, which has been in effect for years, just not by the Home Nations. Liedson for example, born and bred Brazilian but has been capped by Portugal on a residency rule...

This also happens in Rugby Union, all the time; see Vainokolo for England...

As has Deco for Portugal, (Brazilian)

The German, French and Portugese Squads are full of players from other countries (not sure if they are heritage or residency though).
Lukas Podolski - Germany - Poland
Miroslav Klosed - Germany - Poland
Marko Marin - Germany - Macedonia
Piotr Trochowski - Germany - Poland
Andreas Beck - Germany - Russia
Nani - Portugal - Cape Verde
Pepe - Portugal - Brazil
Rolando - Portugal - Cape Verde
Bosingwa - Portugal - Zaire
Vieira - France - Senegal
Zidane - France - Algeria
Evra- France - Senegal
Mandanda - France - DR Congo
Marcos Senna - Spain - Brazil

H18sry
14-10-2009, 11:38 AM
I have just learned from a yam colleague that Driver actually played for Scotland School boys against England

Ryan Giggs played for Engerland schools against Wales, before going on to make countless appearances for Wales, so I dont see your point.

MacBean
14-10-2009, 11:59 AM
Ryan Giggs played for Engerland schools against Wales, before going on to make countless appearances for Wales, so I dont see your point.


If you re-read it, i am not trying to make a point, just merely making a statement

GieTheBaTaeReilly
14-10-2009, 12:38 PM
1. It's a minimum of 5 years Schooling, however as far as i am aware Driver was in Scotland for all of his school days.

I was talking about the rule in general rather than Driver here. I still think the 5 year figure is too low, it should refelct the majority of schooling perhaps.

2. IIRC its only compulsory school

Ok -doke.

3. Not sure on that one, good question!

Cheers.

4. I would imagine that Scottish Schools wouldn't take someone from across the border if they had a catchment area, however i think it wouldn't count because of the childs area of residence

There's also the boarding school question. I live in England but board at Fettes, Watson's, Hogwart's etc. Burley could pick Harry Potter - apparently he's magic :wink:

5. do you mean if Driver was Scottish and schooled all the way in Scotland and then Moved to England with no English Heritage? - if so then he would not be able to play for England.

If you mean he moved back to england after Scottish schooling - he would still be eligible to play for Scotland.

My question was blown out of the water after you ponted out Driver did all of his schooling here.

6. Lambert was born here, he is Scottish. Others have Scottish Parents / Grand parents.

I was joking about Lambert, but there are some thick players out there.




Cheers

khib70
14-10-2009, 01:58 PM
A new list of players to be included in the next Scotland squad has been announced by the SFA. "There has been some unrest about the new rules regarding qualification for the national squad", said Gordon Smith today. "To keep things clear, we have included the reasons why individual players meet the criteria" The list is as follows:-

S Given (Man City) - (Sat on Tunnocks tea cake left on seat of Ryanair flight to Dublin)
J Terry (Chelsea) - (Watched episode of "Taggart" in hotel after mix up regarding inhouse porn channel)
C Ronaldo (Real Madrid) - (Rogered entire hen party from Whitburn in Ibiza nightclub car park)
C Nade (HOMOFC) - (Fell through Storries' window after night out. Devoured entire contents of shop)
F Ribery (Bayern Munich) - (Once kept jazz mag collection in old Crawford's Tartan Shortbread tin)
R Giggs (Man U) - (Made ashtray out of accidentally purchased Deacon Blue CD)

Further announcements are expected shortly

New Corrie
14-10-2009, 02:47 PM
A new list of players to be included in the next Scotland squad has been announced by the SFA. "There has been some unrest about the new rules regarding qualification for the national squad", said Gordon Smith today. "To keep things clear, we have included the reasons why individual players meet the criteria" The list is as follows:-

S Given (Man City) - (Sat on Tunnocks tea cake left on seat of Ryanair flight to Dublin)
J Terry (Chelsea) - (Watched episode of "Taggart" in hotel after mix up regarding inhouse porn channel)
C Ronaldo (Real Madrid) - (Rogered entire hen party from Whitburn in Ibiza nightclub car park)
C Nade (HOMOFC) - (Fell through Storries' window after night out. Devoured entire contents of shop)
F Ribery (Bayern Munich) - (Once kept jazz mag collection in old Crawford's Tartan Shortbread tin)
R Giggs (Man U) - (Made ashtray out of accidentally purchased Deacon Blue CD)

Further announcements are expected shortly


:tee hee:

MacBean
19-10-2009, 02:49 PM
apparently he had a blinder at the weekend?
I still think we could use him in the squad!

HIBERNIAN 1875
19-10-2009, 04:48 PM
First and foremost Driver choose to play for England. Now that he doesnt think he will get more games for them he decides he will just play for Scotland....no thanks Mr Driver. :bye:

aberhibsfc
20-10-2009, 12:58 PM
As has Deco for Portugal, (Brazilian)

The German, French and Portugese Squads are full of players from other countries (not sure if they are heritage or residency though).
Lukas Podolski - Germany - Poland
Miroslav Klosed - Germany - Poland
Marko Marin - Germany - Macedonia
Piotr Trochowski - Germany - Poland
Andreas Beck - Germany - Russia
Nani - Portugal - Cape Verde
Pepe - Portugal - Brazil
Rolando - Portugal - Cape Verde
Bosingwa - Portugal - Zaire
Vieira - France - Senegal
Zidane - France - Algeria
Evra- France - Senegal
Mandanda - France - DR Congo
Marcos Senna - Spain - Brazil


Eduardo - Croatia - Brazil
Alex - Japan - Brazil
John Barnes - England - Jamaica
Marcel Desielle (can't spell it) France - Ghana

MacBean
20-10-2009, 01:25 PM
First and foremost Driver choose to play for England. Now that he doesnt think he will get more games for them he decides he will just play for Scotland....no thanks Mr Driver. :bye:


he didnt have a choice when played for england. The rules were not in place at the time and he did not know he would be able to play for scotland. He has openly come out and said that he would like to play for scotland
:cool2:

Andy74
20-10-2009, 02:32 PM
he didnt have a choice when played for england. The rules were not in place at the time and he did not know he would be able to play for scotland. He has openly come out and said that he would like to play for scotland
:cool2:

Well, all he needs to do is repeat that now.

The fact he is being so cagey about it all shows he isn't that keen and still thinks he might be an england international one day.

You and I both know he's no chance of that.

This rule is really for people who have been here so long that they feel part of the country and really want to play for Scotland. The fact he hasn't come straight out and said that now that he can play for us he'd love to do just that shows that he should not be considered.

He's English, he doesn't appear to think of himself as an adopted Scot so forget him.

Hainan Hibs
20-10-2009, 02:56 PM
I read the link Falkirk Hibee posted, and read the quote "I want to play international football and the best chance for me, no disrespect, is Scotland".

Driver, get tae ****. I want players playing because they want to play for Scotland, not just tally up international caps to bump up their wage on the domestic front.

I don't want him taking up the place of a Scottish player desparate to play for his country.

Cocaine&Caviar
20-10-2009, 02:57 PM
Motherwell's Humphrey, signed from Shrewsbury during the summer; now made himself available for Scotland, Jamaican Born Englishman who got turned down by both England and Jamaica, how low has the standard become?

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,12010_5639733,00.html

Hibs90
20-10-2009, 02:57 PM
He's English. Tell him to **** off.

hibiedude
20-10-2009, 04:04 PM
I think a lot of what's being said on this thread has a lot to do with the fact he plays for Hearts, I would pick Andy Driver because he is a lot better than what we have.

We have picked English duds before but Driver is a good footballer :duck:

Sir David Gray
20-10-2009, 04:09 PM
I think a lot of what's being said on this thread has a lot to do with the fact he plays for Hearts, I would pick Andy Driver because he is a lot better than what we have.

We have picked English duds before but Driver is a good footballer :duck:

I can't speak for anyone else but the fact he plays for Hearts has absolutely nothing at all to do with why I am against him playing for Scotland.

I have already said that he is a good player and that he is good enough to get into the Scotland squad but he wasn't born in Scotland and none of his parents or grandparents were born in Scotland either so for that reason and that reason alone, he shouldn't be capped by Scotland.

hibiedude
20-10-2009, 04:30 PM
I can't speak for anyone else but the fact he plays for Hearts has absolutely nothing at all to do with why I am against him playing for Scotland.

I have already said that he is a good player and that he is good enough to get into the Scotland squad but he wasn't born in Scotland and none of his parents or grandparents were born in Scotland either so for that reason and that reason alone, he shouldn't be capped by Scotland.

You are just 1 off many people that have posted on this topic but I was was talking about the members who stated the fact he played for Hearts first then went on about him being English.

I agree with your point highlighted but times have changed it appears that if you have a West Highland Terrier you qualify to play for scotland.

truehibernian
20-10-2009, 04:36 PM
Gary Teale - Scotland - Scotland (sadly) :greengrin

Shame he didn't go to school on the Moon for 5 years or so............utter lilian gish !

Speedy
20-10-2009, 08:39 PM
I was talking about the rule in general rather than Driver here. I still think the 5 year figure is too low, it should refelct the majority of schooling perhaps.

Cheers

They were probably thinking about the Scotland youth teams as well. e.g. that guy from Celtic that played for the Scotland u-17s

Sir David Gray
20-10-2009, 09:35 PM
You are just 1 off many people that have posted on this topic but I was was talking about the members who stated the fact he played for Hearts first then went on about him being English.

I agree with your point highlighted but times have changed it appears that if you have a West Highland Terrier you qualify to play for scotland.

I know you weren't speaking to any one person in particular, I just wanted to make it absolutely crystal clear that my position on the matter had nothing to do with which club Driver plays for.

Haymaker
21-10-2009, 12:38 AM
He is an alright player and we dont have many other options. When fit, driver plays for an SPL team on a regular basis. What other options do we have down the left as a left midfielder in a 4-5-1 defensive formation we always seem to bloody play?!