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basehibby
11-10-2009, 12:17 PM
This is maybe connected with the whole OFGTF theme but it's got a slightly different angle (and it took me ages - phew!) so I thought I'd start a new thread for it - here goes....

The Real Selltic….

With the OF indulging in one of their regular blob-strops about wanting away to the EPL I got to thinking of the deep irony displayed by Peter Lawell’s gross distortions of the truth in aligning the Smellies’ history to that of Man Utd this week.

There’s a pathetic myth propagated by Celtic FC and indulged in at every opportunity by many of their supporters that they as a club have always been there to support the downtrodden and represent the oppressed wherever they may be. Integrity and steadfast loyalty to their community are ingrained on the soul of the club according to this myth – but there’s another story – one that just happens to be the truth – that all Hibs supporters are very much aware of but which remains to this day an unspoken elephant in the living room over at Darkheid.

This truth is there in the (non-selltic) history books and regards the shameful way in which Selltic was formed by trampling all over the rulebook of the then amateur Scottish game and betraying brutally and callously the club who were their inspiration and mentors and doing their level best to steal their identity, support and indeed almost their entire first team.

That club was our own Hibernian FC – a team that would have long been consigned to the dustbin of history if oh so charitable and high-minded Selltic had succeeded in their aims.

So – which version of this green half of the bigot brothers is closer to the truth then?

Their supporters are very fond of associating themselves with the downtrodden of the world – Basque Flags, Palestine Flags, as well as the obligatory Irish tricolours are common sights at Parkhead. But where do their fans stand when asked if they want to see their club join the league of that very country boasting so many of history’s imperialistic despots which they are so fond of blaming the world’s ills on? Do they even care a jot if doing so would put in jeopardy the very existence of their own home nation’s national team???

Which version do the actions of consecutive Selltic chairmen really represent? Is it the charitable organisation with integrity at it’s core that the myth-makers would have you believe? Or is it the selfish, greedy, backstabbing organisation that the true story of their origins would suggest?

I have used the moniker Selltic advisedly in this post and you can guess what my opinion is about them – although inspired by a real man of integrity in the Hibs supporting Brother Walfrid, they very early in their history sold their souls to the devil by the disgusting way they stabbed their own mentors, Hibernian FC in the back, seeing them as they did as a competitive threat to their ambitions of domination and the riches that would bring.

To my mind they have changed very little in the intervening 120 years and together with their brothers in greed at Ibrox, continue to display all the moral fibre of a couple of backstreet whores – desperate to hitch their skirts to the highest bidder so’s they can afford the latest bit of bling being showed off by their affluent neighbours across the road.

Personally I’m sick to death of their bleating as well as astounded by the blatant hypocrisy characterised by Lawell’s peddling of the Selltic fairytale myth (any journos out there – I see it as your duty to expose this for the tripe that it is). Some see it as an inevitability that we’ll be rid of this gruesome twosome at some point in the near future – me? – I’m not so sure. But regardless of that outcome I think that the rest of Scottish Football should prepare and make sure they are ready if and when that day comes – at very least that should mean that they are ready to play hardball with the OF next time they decide to look for new ways to screw the life out of the Scottish game. And if the OF do get their own way and desert then at least we should have all the angles covered to ensure the future health of the Scottish League and national team.

givescotlandfreedom
11-10-2009, 03:12 PM
:agree: Their hypocrisy and sanctimonious drivel coming from one of Scotland's most vile institutions makes me quite sick. I absolutely despise their myths, half truths, bullying, cheating, manipulation and trading on bigotry. The way they act repulses me alone but to do it with a pseudo rebel, oppressed lie makes it all the more unethical.

fordie2
11-10-2009, 03:16 PM
:top marks

You should probably have submitted it for the front page article instead of posting it as a thread though?

Sas_The_Hibby
11-10-2009, 03:22 PM
I don't doubt much of what the OP says is true, but, frankly, to dwell on something done against 'us' over a century ago risks accusations of us having the same sort of victim mentality that many Celtic fans continue to hold on to.

sadtom
11-10-2009, 03:30 PM
They are fakes, always have been, always will be. Disaster junkies and ambulance chasers, desperately looking for a tragedy of their own. The Beverly Allitt of the spl.

As for their 'beginnings'
Brother Walfrid = Susan Boyle.
John Glass = Simon Cowell.
We all know who holds the 'power' in that relationship. Walfrid was the front for Glass's entrepreneurial aspirations..

Haymaker
11-10-2009, 03:50 PM
Im just waiting for Jack Regan 's reply... :wink:

givescotlandfreedom
11-10-2009, 04:02 PM
Im just waiting for Jack Regan 's reply... :wink:

He'll not be getting a reply from me. Last time I 'discussed' them with him with a long post making a few points he just posted a one line snidey remark. He's a fraud too and hides when you raise decent points.

basehibby
11-10-2009, 04:20 PM
I don't doubt much of what the OP says is true, but, frankly, to dwell on something done against 'us' over a century ago risks accusations of us having the same sort of victim mentality that many Celtic fans continue to hold on to.

I'm not dwelling on it - it was Selltic's chief exec - Lawell who spouted a load of preposterous drivell in the week about their history - that's what prompted the rant.

basehibby
11-10-2009, 04:48 PM
:top marks

You should probably have submitted it for the front page article instead of posting it as a thread though?

Hey thanks - I'll take that as a compliment - the thought did cross my mind but I started it as a post and decided upon the Magnuss Magnusson course of action (I've started so I'll finish :greengrin)

Haymaker
11-10-2009, 04:50 PM
He'll not be getting a reply from me. Last time I 'discussed' them with him with a long post making a few points he just posted a one line snidey remark. He's a fraud too and hides when you raise decent points.


Exactly :wink:

Hainan Hibs
11-10-2009, 04:51 PM
10/10 for the OP, great post.

Nothing really to add apart from it Colin Nishes me off when certain Hibs fans continue to shout Single Fish about prefering Celtic to Rangers. Considering how Celtic were formed and the way they act the phrase "two cheeks of the same arse" is going light on Septic.

Dan Sarf
11-10-2009, 04:56 PM
This is maybe connected with the whole OFGTF theme but it's got a slightly different angle (and it took me ages - phew!) so I thought I'd start a new thread for it - here goes....

The Real Selltic….

With the OF indulging in one of their regular blob-strops about wanting away to the EPL I got to thinking of the deep irony displayed by Peter Lawell’s gross distortions of the truth in aligning the Smellies’ history to that of Man Utd this week.

There’s a pathetic myth propagated by Celtic FC and indulged in at every opportunity by many of their supporters that they as a club have always been there to support the downtrodden and represent the oppressed wherever they may be. Integrity and steadfast loyalty to their community are ingrained on the soul of the club according to this myth – but there’s another story – one that just happens to be the truth – that all Hibs supporters are very much aware of but which remains to this day an unspoken elephant in the living room over at Darkheid.

This truth is there in the (non-selltic) history books and regards the shameful way in which Selltic was formed by trampling all over the rulebook of the then amateur Scottish game and betraying brutally and callously the club who were their inspiration and mentors and doing their level best to steal their identity, support and indeed almost their entire first team.

That club was our own Hibernian FC – a team that would have long been consigned to the dustbin of history if oh so charitable and high-minded Selltic had succeeded in their aims.

So – which version of this green half of the bigot brothers is closer to the truth then?

Their supporters are very fond of associating themselves with the downtrodden of the world – Basque Flags, Palestine Flags, as well as the obligatory Irish tricolours are common sights at Parkhead. But where do their fans stand when asked if they want to see their club join the league of that very country boasting so many of history’s imperialistic despots which they are so fond of blaming the world’s ills on? Do they even care a jot if doing so would put in jeopardy the very existence of their own home nation’s national team???

Which version do the actions of consecutive Selltic chairmen really represent? Is it the charitable organisation with integrity at it’s core that the myth-makers would have you believe? Or is it the selfish, greedy, backstabbing organisation that the true story of their origins would suggest?

I have used the moniker Selltic advisedly in this post and you can guess what my opinion is about them – although inspired by a real man of integrity in the Hibs supporting Brother Walfrid, they very early in their history sold their souls to the devil by the disgusting way they stabbed their own mentors, Hibernian FC in the back, seeing them as they did as a competitive threat to their ambitions of domination and the riches that would bring.

To my mind they have changed very little in the intervening 120 years and together with their brothers in greed at Ibrox, continue to display all the moral fibre of a couple of backstreet whores – desperate to hitch their skirts to the highest bidder so’s they can afford the latest bit of bling being showed off by their affluent neighbours across the road.

Personally I’m sick to death of their bleating as well as astounded by the blatant hypocrisy characterised by Lawell’s peddling of the Selltic fairytale myth (any journos out there – I see it as your duty to expose this for the tripe that it is). Some see it as an inevitability that we’ll be rid of this gruesome twosome at some point in the near future – me? – I’m not so sure. But regardless of that outcome I think that the rest of Scottish Football should prepare and make sure they are ready if and when that day comes – at very least that should mean that they are ready to play hardball with the OF next time they decide to look for new ways to screw the life out of the Scottish game. And if the OF do get their own way and desert then at least we should have all the angles covered to ensure the future health of the Scottish League and national team.


A great piece of writing :thumbsup:

How about if we held them to ransom? Pay us when you leave - or we'll chuck you out now (bringing the league into disrepute) with no home to go to. Then you'll really find out what's like to be downtrodden and oppressed.

Dr What If?
11-10-2009, 10:47 PM
When discussing the Smeltic drivell, I feel compelled to add 'spineless and cowardly' to the list of adjectives that so aptly fit their behaviour.
If they want to play in England they should MOVE to England - or are they too frightened that the greatest fans in the world wouldn't follow them?

We should hate this mob, they tried to steel our identity before trying to kill the club by vetoing out league entry. Now we and the rest of the SPL are too far below them to even want to play in our league!
Their history is as black as their contempories, if they were as brave as their words they would MOVE and leave the rest of us alone. Take Rangers with them, they could have a big march to their new homes - everybody happy.

hibsbollah
12-10-2009, 06:41 AM
Im just waiting for Jack Regan 's reply... :wink:

Great OP:top marks
But to be fair, Jack is usually willing to accept the seedier side to Celtic's early days. I dont think he's a fan of John Glass IIRC.

JackRegan
12-10-2009, 11:23 AM
He'll not be getting a reply from me. Last time I 'discussed' them with him with a long post making a few points he just posted a one line snidey remark. He's a fraud too and hides when you raise decent points.

Do I really?? Maybe I had just finished work for the day.

If anyone makes a good point on here, i generally concede that, howevr I don't remember you making any.

I give posts on here the reply they deserve.

JackRegan
12-10-2009, 11:24 AM
They are fakes, always have been, always will be. Disaster junkies and ambulance chasers, desperately looking for a tragedy of their own. The Beverly Allitt of the spl.

As for their 'beginnings'
Brother Walfrid = Susan Boyle.
John Glass = Simon Cowell.
We all know who holds the 'power' in that relationship. Walfrid was the front for Glass's entrepreneurial aspirations..

1.) How are we ambulance chasers???

2.) Walfrid HATED John Glass - if he was a front, it was not by consent.

Petrie's Tache
12-10-2009, 11:32 AM
Anything to add to the OP jack?

Thought not.

JackRegan
12-10-2009, 11:56 AM
Anything to add to the OP jack?

Thought not.

Apart from the fact that hibs fans really should get over themselves and that you are not shy when it comes to playing the victim yourselves? :agree:

When the two crux points of the OP (Celtic going to the EPL and the clubs foundation) have been discussed on here before, I generally agree with views taken on here.

hibs1875aye
12-10-2009, 12:06 PM
Apart from the fact that hibs fans really should get over themselves and that you are not shy when it comes to playing the victim yourselves? :agree:

When the two crux points of the OP (Celtic going to the EPL and the clubs foundation) have been discussed on here before, I generally agree with views taken on here.

When do we play the victim then?

Are you really suggesting anyone would be anywhere close to the mighty celtic at playing the victim? Seriously? Yer having a laugh mate.

You lot just love to act the afflicted. Every time you have a player carded or heaven forbid sent off, you appeal it. Everyones' out to get you, the press, the huns, Scotland, etc etc. Away, you canny slag anyone for that type of behaviour - you lot have been mastering it since you were formed.

JackRegan
12-10-2009, 12:09 PM
When do we play the victim then?

Are you really suggesting anyone would be anywhere close to the mighty celtic at playing the victim? Seriously? Yer having a laugh mate.

You lot just love to act the afflicted. Every time you have a player carded or heaven forbid sent off, you appeal it. Everyones' out to get you, the press, the huns, Scotland, etc etc. Away, you canny slag anyone for that type of behaviour - you lot have been mastering it since you were formed.

You are kidding?? even Hibs fans on here say it!!

Celtic, stole our players, widnae be a Celtic without Hibs blah blah blah.

Hardly a week goes by on eher without a thread about Celtic in some shape or form!!

As for running us close to "playing the victim" just look to our city rivals there - they are out doing us on that one. :agree:

hibs1875aye
12-10-2009, 12:17 PM
You are kidding?? even Hibs fans on here say it!!

Celtic, stole our players, widnae be a Celtic without Hibs blah blah blah.

Hardly a week goes by on eher without a thread about Celtic in some shape or form!!

As for running us close to "playing the victim" just look to our city rivals there - they are out doing us on that one. :agree:

Celtic DO steal our players, for a pittance. Celtic DO owe their foundation to us (we're the daddies :cool2:).

Indeed...and celtic love to be the centre of attention - just admit it.

As for your city rivals, Im not even getting into them - we're talking about celtic here. Rangers are just as bad/possibly worse than youse - doesny make your lot good though does it when the huns are the benchmark :agree:

JackRegan
12-10-2009, 12:31 PM
Celtic DO steal our players, for a pittance. Celtic DO owe their foundation to us (we're the daddies :cool2:).

Indeed...and celtic love to be the centre of attention - just admit it.

As for your city rivals, Im not even getting into them - we're talking about celtic here. Rangers are just as bad/possibly worse than youse - doesny make your lot good though does it when the huns are the benchmark :agree:

Maybe 100 year ago, but lets look at some stats.

Pat Stanton - Fair enough
John Collins - £900k. Fair price in 1990.
Pat McGinlay - £450k. Fair price in 1993
ulrik Laursen - £1.5m. Fair price
Didier Agathe - £30k - Blame yer manager for only giving him a 3 month deal - he was with raith Rovers so I don't imagine he'd have been hard to deal with
Gary Caldwell - Player worked his ticket and thought he was destined for bigger things. We all know he's a tool, but he did get his agent to get him out. :agree:
Derek Riordan- Chased the dough and was going out of contract - it it was not Celtic, it would have been someone else.
Scott Brown - £4m. Fair price.

Mon Dieu4
12-10-2009, 12:35 PM
Maybe 100 year ago, but lets look at some stats.

Pat Stanton - Fair enough
John Collins - £900k. Fair price in 1990.
Pat McGinlay - £450k. Fair price in 1993
ulrik Laursen - £1.5m. Fair price
Didier Agathe - £30k - Blame yer manager for only giving him a 3 month deal - he was with raith Rovers so I don't imagine he'd have been hard to deal with
Gary Caldwell - Player worked his ticket and thought he was destined for bigger things. We all know he's a tool, but he did get his agent to get him out. :agree:
Derek Riordan- Chased the dough and was going out of contract - it it was not Celtic, it would have been someone else.
Scott Brown - £4m. Fair price.

You missed out Darren Jackson for £1.25m see there are too many that you cant even remember them now :wink:

JackRegan
12-10-2009, 12:47 PM
You missed out Darren Jackson for £1.25m see there are too many that you cant even remember them now :wink:

i'm trying to forget him. :greengrin

Only kidding, I actually liked DJ. :agree:

Kato
12-10-2009, 12:53 PM
Most Hibs fans know that Celtic were built on a lie and their lies regarding Hibs have grown on from their. It's only about 4 years ago that the "Celtic View" (free blinkers with every issue) regurgitated the myth that Harry Swan was a member of the Orange Order who orchestrated a campaign to have Celtic remove the Irish tri-colour flag from Parkhead.

A few days after the end of last season a Celtic fan I know asked me "how come you didn't do us a favour?" - speaking about the last Hibs-Celtic fixture of the season at Easter Road.

I asked him in return, "How many favours do we owe you?"

I'm still waiting on a non-patronising football related reply.

Even when Mercer was doing his in 1990 the silence from Celtic was deafening and we all know this was because they'd have loved to see us go out of business.

Don't trust them, never have, never will - if Hibs had a cup of tea they'd try and steal the sugar out.

jacomo
12-10-2009, 01:01 PM
I'm not dwelling on it - it was Selltic's chief exec - Lawell who spouted a load of preposterous drivell in the week about their history - that's what prompted the rant.

Yup, in Lawell's words, he just wants the opportunity to tell "the Celtic story" to the world.

I'd say that this naked greed, hiding behind a pseudo-folk tale, is a pretty apt continuation of that story.

www.welovefitba.blogspot.com

JackRegan
12-10-2009, 01:35 PM
Most Hibs fans know that Celtic were built on a lie and their lies regarding Hibs have grown on from their. It's only about 4 years ago that the "Celtic View" (free blinkers with every issue) regurgitated the myth that Harry Swan was a member of the Orange Order who orchestrated a campaign to have Celtic remove the Irish tri-colour flag from Parkhead.

A few days after the end of last season a Celtic fan I know asked me "how come you didn't do us a favour?" - speaking about the last Hibs-Celtic fixture of the season at Easter Road.

I asked him in return, "How many favours do we owe you?"

I'm still waiting on a non-patronising football related reply.

Even when Mercer was doing his in 1990 the silence from Celtic was deafening and we all know this was because they'd have loved to see us go out of business.

Don't trust them, never have, never will - if Hibs had a cup of tea they'd try and steal the sugar out.


Kato,

All fair enough. I am frequently pissed off at Celtic fans who don't know the History of our great club. Point them to a book called "The Glory and the Dream" by Tom Campbell and Pat Woods, or the late Eugene MacBride's fanzine "The Celt" - both provide an excellent insight into the murky period in Celtic's history from about 1890 until 1900.

As i said, many posts ago, for Hibs see also: Port Glasgow Hibs, Lochee Harp, Duntocher Harp, Renton, Queens Park, Cowlairs, Carfin Hibs and one or two others.

Jonnyboy will fill you in if yer stuck. :wink:

Kato
12-10-2009, 01:50 PM
Kato,

All fair enough. I am frequently pissed off at Celtic fans who don't know the History of our great club. Point them to a book called "The Glory and the Dream" by Tom Campbell and Pat Woods, or the late Eugene MacBride's fanzine "The Celt" - both provide an excellent insight into the murky period in Celtic's history from about 1890 until 1900.

As i said, many posts ago, for Hibs see also: Port Glasgow Hibs, Lochee Harp, Duntocher Harp, Renton, Queens Park, Cowlairs, Carfin Hibs and one or two others.

Jonnyboy will fill you in if yer stuck. :wink:

No comment on the Celtic View (free blinkers with every issue) - why does an official Celtic organ seek to continue the lies surrounding Harry Swan. I could hazard a guess as to why but am interested in your opinion.

I'm occasionally in conversation with Celtic fans who live in ignorance over the Harry Swan thing. Pointing them towards books is usually, I'm afraid, a waste of finger action. I'm usually tempted to point my fingers up inside my nostrils and wave something green at them as I've learned they ain't interested in the truth.

I worked for 20 years in the National Library of Scotland, where I read all the newspaper articles available on Celtic's "flag" issue, finding out more or less exactly what went on - so no need for any prompting from Jonny or any secondary sources thanks.

JackRegan
12-10-2009, 02:24 PM
No comment on the Celtic View (free blinkers with every issue) - why does an official Celtic organ seek to continue the lies surrounding Harry Swan. I could hazard a guess as to why but am interested in your opinion.

I'm occasionally in conversation with Celtic fans who live in ignorance over the Harry Swan thing. Pointing them towards books is usually, I'm afraid, a waste of finger action. I'm usually tempted to point my fingers up inside my nostrils and wave something green at them as I've learned they ain't interested in the truth.

I worked for 20 years in the National Library of Scotland, where I read all the newspaper articles available on Celtic's "flag" issue, finding out more or less exactly what went on - so no need for any prompting from Jonny or any secondary sources thanks.

FFS don't get so defensive. :greengrin

As for the Celtic View...having bought it about 4 times since 2000, I could not really comment on what it said, its not an organ I take seriously, nor is it one I would trust when it comes to providing historical accounts. Although was Harry Swan, not involved in some other anti Catholic orgainsation, pre war?

The Celt and the Glory and the Dream paint Harry Swan more as the Fall Guy for the whole affair, and while it is often cited that Rangers backed us on the issue, there are many who think this was the opposite in private.

IMO Swan was doing the bidding on behalf of others. Having said that, I am delighted Bob Kelly stood firm on the issue, although again, I don't think he did so out of any real desire or love of Ireland, but more as an act of self preservation.

matty_f
12-10-2009, 02:36 PM
I often wonder if it wouldn't save a lot of bother if Celtc just moved to Ireland, rather than England.

sadtom
12-10-2009, 02:39 PM
1.) How are we ambulance chasers???

2.) Walfrid HATED John Glass - if he was a front, it was not by consent.


Your kidding right? There are some so blind that cannot see!

Celtc are always looking to attach themselves to others tragedy, mock grief! Your 'special relationship' with mun u after munich. Then the other 'special relationship' with 'pool after hillsbourgh. You tried to hijack motherwells grief over o'donnell. Or 'tributes' to to players you had no connection with who died suddenly on the park.
Caring is fine - manufactured mass grief in a 'diana' stylee is cringeworthy. Celtic are masters of it.
As a club celtic have never had to struggle for anything, its always been handed to you on a plate. Like it or lump it you have been an 'establishment' favourite for over a century. This does not sit well with a false image of the plucky street fighting underdog, so you chase disasters and invent trauma to suit the image.

If Walfrid hated Glass so much, how the hell did Glass get such easy control of the club and the decision making which saw celtc only pay lipservice to charidee in the community as a sop to the original (well original at Hibs anyway) ethos of a club to help the fortunes of the local community (and beyond) and the poor. At the same stroke massively contributing to the collapse of the one club who were seeing through that ideology. Then (most galligly) trading for a 100 years on the lie that you were borne out of suffering and championed the cause of the needy.

Quite frankly
***** OFF YOU CHARLETANS!



P.S. Whats the bet on a Stephen Gately CSC! banner the next game at celtc park (spelt wrongly natch).

matty_f
12-10-2009, 02:44 PM
Your kidding right? There are some so blind that cannot see!

Celtc are always looking to attach themselves to others tragedy, mock grief! Your 'special relationship' with mun u after munich. Then the other 'special relationship' with 'pool after hillsbourgh. You tried to hijack motherwells grief over o'donnell. Or 'tributes' to to players you had no connection with who died suddenly on the park.
Caring is fine - manufactured mass grief in a 'diana' stylee is cringeworthy. Celtic are masters of it.
As a club celtic have never had to struggle for anything, its always been handed to you on a plate. Like it or lump it you have been an 'establishment' favourite for over a century. This does not sit well with a false image of the plucky street fighting underdog, so you chase disasters and invent trauma to suit the image.

If Walfrid hated Glass so much, how the hell did Glass get such easy control of the club and the decision making which saw celtc only pay lipservice to charidee in the community as a sop to the original (well original at Hibs anyway) ethos of a club to help the fortunes of the local community (and beyond) and the poor. At the same stroke massively contributing to the collapse of the one club who were seeing through that ideology. Then (most galligly) trading for a 100 years on the lie that you were borne out of suffering and championed the cause of the needy.

Quite frankly
***** OFF YOU CHARLETANS!



The O'Donnell one was an absolute discgrace, IMHO. Especially as they played after the tragic death of Tommy Burns because "it's what he would have wanted".

Kato
12-10-2009, 02:51 PM
As for the Celtic View...having bought it about 4 times since 2000, I could not really comment on what it said, its not an organ I take seriously, nor is it one I would trust when it comes to providing historical accounts.

Yup neither would I.

It's an official Celtic club publication which spreads lies about my team.


Although was Harry Swan, not involved in some other anti Catholic orgainsation, pre war?

No he wasn't.

That was made up by some Celtic fantasist.

Maybe you know him?

Be asking that question you've lost any chance of gaining any credibility with me, you'll note you started on zero.


IMO Swan was doing the bidding on behalf of others. Having said that, I am delighted Bob Kelly stood firm on the issue, although again, I don't think he did so out of any real desire or love of Ireland, but more as an act of self preservation.

I don't give a monkey's if you fly Bro Walfrid's pants on match days, only concerned with Swan's rep on this issue, smears which even you give some credence to.

Ollie Reed
12-10-2009, 02:56 PM
Yup neither would I.

It's an official Celtic club publication which spreads lies about my team.



No he wasn't.

That was made up by some Celtic fantasist.

Maybe you know him?

Be asking that question you've lost any chance of gaining any credibility with me, you'll note you started on zero.



I don't give a monkey's if you fly Bro Walfrid's pants on match days, only concerned with Swan's rep on this issue, smears which even you give some credence to.

:faf:

JackRegan
12-10-2009, 03:02 PM
Your kidding right? There are some so blind that cannot see!

Celtc are always looking to attach themselves to others tragedy, mock grief! Your 'special relationship' with mun u after munich. Then the other 'special relationship' with 'pool after hillsbourgh. You tried to hijack motherwells grief over o'donnell. Or 'tributes' to to players you had no connection with who died suddenly on the park.
Caring is fine - manufactured mass grief in a 'diana' stylee is cringeworthy. Celtic are masters of it.
As a club celtic have never had to struggle for anything, its always been handed to you on a plate. Like it or lump it you have been an 'establishment' favourite for over a century. This does not sit well with a false image of the plucky street fighting underdog, so you chase disasters and invent trauma to suit the image.

If Walfrid hated Glass so much, how the hell did Glass get such easy control of the club and the decision making which saw celtc only pay lipservice to charidee in the community as a sop to the original (well original at Hibs anyway) ethos of a club to help the fortunes of the local community (and beyond) and the poor. At the same stroke massively contributing to the collapse of the one club who were seeing through that ideology. Then (most galligly) trading for a 100 years on the lie that you were borne out of suffering and championed the cause of the needy.

Quite frankly
***** OFF YOU CHARLETANS!



Firstly, there is no getting away from the fact the club did have charitable origins, inspired by the success of Hibs.

Also while Celtic as a club might not have had to struggle for anything, huge sections of our fan base, up to the 70's at least did have to struggle in the face of discrimination in may of Glasgow's big employers at the time - Arrols, Tennents, Albion motors, The Shipyards, The Gas Board, Weir pumps, The Herald and all of teh banks and Insurance companies.

As for you examples of "ambulance chasing" well I think they are pretty risible to be honest, especially bringing up Phil O'Donnell. I suggest you get yer facts right on that one. The guy was with us for 5 years and his family - yes his family asked for our game to be postponed. Had he played for Falikrk for 5 years and they cancelled their game with say, St mirren, nothing would be made of it.

Kato
12-10-2009, 03:03 PM
Firstly, there is no getting away from the fact the club did have charitable origins, inspired by the success of Hibs.



Lip service. Nothing more.

givescotlandfreedom
12-10-2009, 03:04 PM
Do I really?? Maybe I had just finished work for the day.

If anyone makes a good point on here, i generally concede that, howevr I don't remember you making any.

I give posts on here the reply they deserve.

Yep, then I and others were commenting you never could answer any of it. I'd hunt it out but you're not worth the effort.

Kato
12-10-2009, 03:06 PM
:faf:


Someone had to say it.:wink:

It's typical of the "we're the victims" attitude shown by Celtic fans that when they come onto Hibs' message boards and the issue of Harry Swan comes up they think the issue is the flag when on a Hibs' message board the issue is the lies spread by CelticFootballClub (one word) and their ignorant supporters.

basehibby
12-10-2009, 03:13 PM
Apart from the fact that hibs fans really should get over themselves and that you are not shy when it comes to playing the victim yourselves? :agree:

When the two crux points of the OP (Celtic going to the EPL and the clubs foundation) have been discussed on here before, I generally agree with views taken on here.

That's a bit rich - my OP was provoked entirely by your chairman spouting a load of misleadingly dewy eyed drivel about Selltic's history in an attempt to curry favour with the great ignorant masses in England:

Peter Lawwell: ""If you look at our story and compare it to Manchester United: the beginnings, the triumphs, the tragedies, the characters, they are almost identical." :confused::confused::confused::confused::faf:

Well - I've had a wee look at the early history of Manchester Utd/Forrest Green and I can see NOTHING about backstabbing, bribery, dishonesty or hypocrisy being a characteristic of their early years - if I was a Manchester Utd fan and knew the truth about Selltic I would be outraged by Lawwells comments and would be demanding an apology (in fact I might just post something up on a Man Utd forum and see what they think).

It's your lot that should get over yourselves and wake up to the undisputable fact that your club is nothing but a self centred corporate greed machine that has been encouraging and trading on the petty minded prejudices of Scotland's ignoramuses for well over a century.

Hibs fans don't need to PLAY the victims - our club was, if not the earliest, then certainly the most high profile victim of Selltic's dishonesty and meanness of spirit - and whenever anyone - especially your chairman FFS! - tries to pull the wool over the eyes of the rest of the world by building some tissue of fantastic lies about your club's origins, we have every right to tell it as it is.

fatbloke
12-10-2009, 03:13 PM
1.) How are we ambulance chasers???

2.) Walfrid HATED John Glass - if he was a front, it was not by consent.


1. Because youse are cos he says so an that's good enough for me.

2. Not what I have been told

By the way if and when you do leave I hope to have my bus drivers license in place so I can ferry the ******in lot of you and your ugly sister's children and other assorted friends and relatives out of the league for ever.

Kato
12-10-2009, 03:18 PM
if I was a Manchester Utd fan and knew the truth about Selltic I would be outraged by Lawwells comments and would be demanding an apology (in fact I might just post something up on a Man Utd forum and see what they think).


Do it.

For the sake of cats being amongst some pigeons it needs to be said and spread. The guy has some nerve.

The whole charity gig was a farce as well. Once brother Walfrid ws on teh train to London Celtc were a gravy train for the families involved up until they were ousted in the 1990's. They refused point blank to play Hibs in charity matches as well, even Rangers would answer Hibs requests for opposition in charity matches.

JackRegan
12-10-2009, 03:19 PM
Yup neither would I.

It's an official Celtic club publication which spreads lies about my team.



No he wasn't.

That was made up by some Celtic fantasist.

Maybe you know him?

Be asking that question you've lost any chance of gaining any credibility with me, you'll note you started on zero.

I don't give a monkey's if you fly Bro Walfrid's pants on match days, only concerned with Swan's rep on this issue, smears which even you give some credence to.

calm down dear - its just a messageboard. :blah:

I'll apologise on behalf of Tims everywhere that a few of us have bad mouthed yer uncle Harry then. :dummytit:

JackRegan
12-10-2009, 03:22 PM
Do it.

For the sake of cats being amongst some pigeons it needs to be said and spread. The guy has some nerve.

The whole charity gig was a farce as well. Once brother Walfrid ws on teh train to London Celtc were a gravy train for the families involved up until they were ousted in the 1990's. They refused point blank to play Hibs in charity matches as well, even Rangers would answer Hibs requests for opposition in charity matches.

So because we never played in Hibs in Charity matches, means we never played any??

aye very good. :faf:

JackRegan
12-10-2009, 03:26 PM
That's a bit rich - my OP was provoked entirely by your chairman spouting a load of misleadingly dewy eyed drivel about Selltic's history in an attempt to curry favour with the great ignorant masses in England:

Peter Lawwell: ""If you look at our story and compare it to Manchester United: the beginnings, the triumphs, the tragedies, the characters, they are almost identical." :confused::confused::confused::confused::faf:

Well - I've had a wee look at the early history of Manchester Utd/Forrest Green and I can see NOTHING about backstabbing, bribery, dishonesty or hypocrisy being a characteristic of their early years - if I was a Manchester Utd fan and knew the truth about Selltic I would be outraged by Lawwells comments and would be demanding an apology (in fact I might just post something up on a Man Utd forum and see what they think).

It's your lot that should get over yourselves and wake up to the undisputable fact that your club is nothing but a self centred corporate greed machine that has been encouraging and trading on the petty minded prejudices of Scotland's ignoramuses for well over a century.

Hibs fans don't need to PLAY the victims - our club was, if not the earliest, then certainly the most high profile victim of Selltic's dishonesty and meanness of spirit - and whenever anyone - especially your chairman FFS! - tries to pull the wool over the eyes of the rest of the world by building some tissue of fantastic lies about your club's origins, we have every right to tell it as it is.

Sorry but you must have missed my comments on Lawwell and his latest spiel.

Seriously though, some Hibs fans really do have an obsession with Celtic if this place is anything to go by. :agree:

if you want to gon a Man Utd fans website then fine, but I doubt they'd really give a flying one about what a Hibs fan has to say for himself on subject they probably care very little about.

Kato
12-10-2009, 03:31 PM
calm down dear - its just a messageboard. :blah:

I'll apologise on behalf of Tims everywhere that a few of us have bad mouthed yer uncle Harry then. :dummytit:


I've said before no need to apologise, your apologies are unwanted and worthless.

Harry Swan isn't my uncle and you getting slippery and avoiding the actual issue on this and a few other things sums Celtic fans up - blinkered, self-righteous, slippery, clowns.

But I'm sure you'll go to bed feeling all righteous anyway.

Bye.:bye:

sadtom
12-10-2009, 03:32 PM
Firstly, there is no getting away from the fact the club did have charitable origins, inspired by the success of Hibs.

Also while Celtic as a club might not have had to struggle for anything, huge sections of our fan base, up to the 70's at least did have to struggle in the face of discrimination in may of Glasgow's big employers at the time - Arrols, Tennents, Albion motors, The Shipyards, The Gas Board, Weir pumps, The Herald and all of teh banks and Insurance companies.

As for you examples of "ambulance chasing" well I think they are pretty risible to be honest, especially bringing up Phil O'Donnell. I suggest you get yer facts right on that one. The guy was with us for 5 years and his family - yes his family asked for our game to be postponed. Had he played for Falikrk for 5 years and they cancelled their game with say, St mirren, nothing would be made of it.

1) Oh i think you will find John Glass had no trouble getting celtc away from their charitable origins (that existied in the psyche more than in reality).

2) You are speaking to somone whose family moved to little ireland in embra (a city that has a longer and more pronounced history of sectarianism than glasgow) after the famine. So grannies and sookin' eggs spring to mind. What the ***** that has to do with a massive capitalist institution like celtc selling itself as a kindrid spirit to a fan base who may have had to struggle when the club never is beyond me. Maybe all those people who wanted a football organisation to reflect their own struggle in life might have looked a wee bit further east.
It'd be like the poor flocking to the ranks of the tories, cause Cameron and Osbourne said 'we are all in this together.' Laughable.

3) i have no problem with celtc paying tribute to a former employee. Its the way it was done and the way motherwell were treated like a side issue. As if it was 'your tragedy' not theirs.
Pointing out celtc's munchhausens by proxy doesn't make me the sick one with issues!

Don Giovanni
12-10-2009, 05:59 PM
Regarding charity matches... did Bolton Wanderers not first approach Celtc for Jussi Jaskelainen's testimonial? The Finnish goalkeeper had already pledged all proceeds from the game to charity but Wanderers were forced to change their plans due to the exhorbitant fee Celtc demanded to face them at the Reebok.

Bolton turned to Hibs (no doubt due to the Finnish connection - Mixu & JJ) who agreed to waive the match fee etc. to ensure that ALL the money raised was donated to worthy causes.

Do correct me if I am wrong...

basehibby
12-10-2009, 06:15 PM
Do it.

For the sake of cats being amongst some pigeons it needs to be said and spread. The guy has some nerve.

The whole charity gig was a farce as well. Once brother Walfrid ws on teh train to London Celtc were a gravy train for the families involved up until they were ousted in the 1990's. They refused point blank to play Hibs in charity matches as well, even Rangers would answer Hibs requests for opposition in charity matches.

Done - dunno if they'll be interested or not but they deserved to be told anyway :agree:

basehibby
12-10-2009, 06:21 PM
Sorry but you must have missed my comments on Lawwell and his latest spiel.

Seriously though, some Hibs fans really do have an obsession with Celtic if this place is anything to go by. :agree:

if you want to gon a Man Utd fans website then fine, but I doubt they'd really give a flying one about what a Hibs fan has to say for himself on subject they probably care very little about.

:faf::faf::faf:

Jack - that statement has more irony than the earths core - I don't think I've ever been on the Huddle or any other Celtic boards, but if I'm not mistaken you have a higher hibs.net post count than more than half the Hibbys on this thread :dizzy:

fordie2
12-10-2009, 06:28 PM
Done - dunno if they'll be interested or not but they deserved to be told anyway :agree:

Where did you post it, I'd be interested in reading their replies:greengrin

basehibby
12-10-2009, 07:18 PM
Where did you post it, I'd be interested in reading their replies:greengrin

http://www.unitedlounge.com/mb/viewt...322441#p322441 (http://www.unitedlounge.com/mb/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=10159&p=322441#p322441)

http://www.redcafe.net/f17/utd-origi...sulted-271629/

Not many replies last time I checked....

:tsk tsk: Make sure and be polite now !

lEXO
12-10-2009, 07:30 PM
Sorry but you must have missed my comments on Lawwell and his latest spiel.

Seriously though, some Hibs fans really do have an obsession with Celtic if this place is anything to go by. :agree:

if you want to gon a Man Utd fans website then fine, but I doubt they'd really give a flying one about what a Hibs fan has to say for himself on subject they probably care very little about.
For someone who says Hibs fans have an obsession with celtic, you spend a lot of time on here slavering.Pot and kettle spring to mind.

JackRegan
12-10-2009, 09:04 PM
For someone who says Hibs fans have an obsession with celtic, you spend a lot of time on here slavering.Pot and kettle spring to mind.

The only reason I'm on is to respond to posts about Celtic.

JackRegan
12-10-2009, 09:05 PM
Regarding charity matches... did Bolton Wanderers not first approach Celtc for Jussi Jaskelainen's testimonial? The Finnish goalkeeper had already pledged all proceeds from the game to charity but Wanderers were forced to change their plans due to the exhorbitant fee Celtc demanded to face them at the Reebok.

Bolton turned to Hibs (no doubt due to the Finnish connection - Mixu & JJ) who agreed to waive the match fee etc. to ensure that ALL the money raised was donated to worthy causes.

Do correct me if I am wrong...

Look mate, as I've said before, I cannot stand Peter Lawwell and while I don't know if this is true, it would not surprise me

JackRegan
12-10-2009, 09:08 PM
1) Oh i think you will find John Glass had no trouble getting celtc away from their charitable origins (that existied in the psyche more than in reality).

2) You are speaking to somone whose family moved to little ireland in embra (a city that has a longer and more pronounced history of sectarianism than glasgow) after the famine. So grannies and sookin' eggs spring to mind. What the ***** that has to do with a massive capitalist institution like celtc selling itself as a kindrid spirit to a fan base who may have had to struggle when the club never is beyond me. Maybe all those people who wanted a football organisation to reflect their own struggle in life might have looked a wee bit further east.
It'd be like the poor flocking to the ranks of the tories, cause Cameron and Osbourne said 'we are all in this together.' Laughable.

3) i have no problem with celtc paying tribute to a former employee. Its the way it was done and the way motherwell were treated like a side issue. As if it was 'your tragedy' not theirs.
Pointing out celtc's munchhausens by proxy doesn't make me the sick one with issues!

1.) I don't think you actually read my posts as I have said what you have mentioned in point 1 more than once here.

2.) The difference is, Glasgow had more poverty than Edinburgh. Celtic provides colour, purpose and focus to people who live an otherwise, hard and bleak life.

3.) SOrry but your continued comparisons to Beverly Allitt are a bit sick.

JackRegan
12-10-2009, 09:10 PM
I've said before no need to apologise, your apologies are unwanted and worthless.

Harry Swan isn't my uncle and you getting slippery and avoiding the actual issue on this and a few other things sums Celtic fans up - blinkered, self-righteous, slippery, clowns.

But I'm sure you'll go to bed feeling all righteous anyway.

Bye.:bye:

Look, I already said that I thought Swan was a front for others - a fall guy.

I also only said I understood he was involved with anti Catholic groups in the 1930's - I have heard conflicting reports about the guy.

I don't think I avoided any issue here at all.

lEXO
12-10-2009, 09:38 PM
The only reason I'm on is to respond to posts about Celtic.
Or maybe you feel the need to talk to real football fans. :wink:

ronaldo7
12-10-2009, 09:42 PM
This is maybe connected with the whole OFGTF theme but it's got a slightly different angle (and it took me ages - phew!) so I thought I'd start a new thread for it - here goes....

The Real Selltic….

With the OF indulging in one of their regular blob-strops about wanting away to the EPL I got to thinking of the deep irony displayed by Peter Lawell’s gross distortions of the truth in aligning the Smellies’ history to that of Man Utd this week.

There’s a pathetic myth propagated by Celtic FC and indulged in at every opportunity by many of their supporters that they as a club have always been there to support the downtrodden and represent the oppressed wherever they may be. Integrity and steadfast loyalty to their community are ingrained on the soul of the club according to this myth – but there’s another story – one that just happens to be the truth – that all Hibs supporters are very much aware of but which remains to this day an unspoken elephant in the living room over at Darkheid.

This truth is there in the (non-selltic) history books and regards the shameful way in which Selltic was formed by trampling all over the rulebook of the then amateur Scottish game and betraying brutally and callously the club who were their inspiration and mentors and doing their level best to steal their identity, support and indeed almost their entire first team.

That club was our own Hibernian FC – a team that would have long been consigned to the dustbin of history if oh so charitable and high-minded Selltic had succeeded in their aims.

So – which version of this green half of the bigot brothers is closer to the truth then?

Their supporters are very fond of associating themselves with the downtrodden of the world – Basque Flags, Palestine Flags, as well as the obligatory Irish tricolours are common sights at Parkhead. But where do their fans stand when asked if they want to see their club join the league of that very country boasting so many of history’s imperialistic despots which they are so fond of blaming the world’s ills on? Do they even care a jot if doing so would put in jeopardy the very existence of their own home nation’s national team???

Which version do the actions of consecutive Selltic chairmen really represent? Is it the charitable organisation with integrity at it’s core that the myth-makers would have you believe? Or is it the selfish, greedy, backstabbing organisation that the true story of their origins would suggest?

I have used the moniker Selltic advisedly in this post and you can guess what my opinion is about them – although inspired by a real man of integrity in the Hibs supporting Brother Walfrid, they very early in their history sold their souls to the devil by the disgusting way they stabbed their own mentors, Hibernian FC in the back, seeing them as they did as a competitive threat to their ambitions of domination and the riches that would bring.

To my mind they have changed very little in the intervening 120 years and together with their brothers in greed at Ibrox, continue to display all the moral fibre of a couple of backstreet whores – desperate to hitch their skirts to the highest bidder so’s they can afford the latest bit of bling being showed off by their affluent neighbours across the road.

Personally I’m sick to death of their bleating as well as astounded by the blatant hypocrisy characterised by Lawell’s peddling of the Selltic fairytale myth (any journos out there – I see it as your duty to expose this for the tripe that it is). Some see it as an inevitability that we’ll be rid of this gruesome twosome at some point in the near future – me? – I’m not so sure. But regardless of that outcome I think that the rest of Scottish Football should prepare and make sure they are ready if and when that day comes – at very least that should mean that they are ready to play hardball with the OF next time they decide to look for new ways to screw the life out of the Scottish game. And if the OF do get their own way and desert then at least we should have all the angles covered to ensure the future health of the Scottish League and national team.

:top marks M.

Are you Tom English in disguise:wink:

JackRegan
13-10-2009, 06:27 AM
Or maybe you feel the need to talk to real football fans. :wink:

Bit of truth in that if I'm honest.

greenginger
13-10-2009, 08:14 AM
This is maybe connected with the whole OFGTF theme but it's got a slightly different angle (and it took me ages - phew!) so I thought I'd start a new thread for it - here goes....

The Real Selltic….

With the OF indulging in one of their regular blob-strops about wanting away to the EPL I got to thinking of the deep irony displayed by Peter Lawell’s gross distortions of the truth in aligning the Smellies’ history to that of Man Utd this week.

There’s a pathetic myth propagated by Celtic FC and indulged in at every opportunity by many of their supporters that they as a club have always been there to support the downtrodden and represent the oppressed wherever they may be. Integrity and steadfast loyalty to their community are ingrained on the soul of the club according to this myth – but there’s another story – one that just happens to be the truth – that all Hibs supporters are very much aware of but which remains to this day an unspoken elephant in the living room over at Darkheid.

This truth is there in the (non-selltic) history books and regards the shameful way in which Selltic was formed by trampling all over the rulebook of the then amateur Scottish game and betraying brutally and callously the club who were their inspiration and mentors and doing their level best to steal their identity, support and indeed almost their entire first team.

That club was our own Hibernian FC – a team that would have long been consigned to the dustbin of history if oh so charitable and high-minded Selltic had succeeded in their aims.

So – which version of this green half of the bigot brothers is closer to the truth then?

Their supporters are very fond of associating themselves with the downtrodden of the world – Basque Flags, Palestine Flags, as well as the obligatory Irish tricolours are common sights at Parkhead. But where do their fans stand when asked if they want to see their club join the league of that very country boasting so many of history’s imperialistic despots which they are so fond of blaming the world’s ills on? Do they even care a jot if doing so would put in jeopardy the very existence of their own home nation’s national team???

Which version do the actions of consecutive Selltic chairmen really represent? Is it the charitable organisation with integrity at it’s core that the myth-makers would have you believe? Or is it the selfish, greedy, backstabbing organisation that the true story of their origins would suggest?

I have used the moniker Selltic advisedly in this post and you can guess what my opinion is about them – although inspired by a real man of integrity in the Hibs supporting Brother Walfrid, they very early in their history sold their souls to the devil by the disgusting way they stabbed their own mentors, Hibernian FC in the back, seeing them as they did as a competitive threat to their ambitions of domination and the riches that would bring.

To my mind they have changed very little in the intervening 120 years and together with their brothers in greed at Ibrox, continue to display all the moral fibre of a couple of backstreet whores – desperate to hitch their skirts to the highest bidder so’s they can afford the latest bit of bling being showed off by their affluent neighbours across the road.

Personally I’m sick to death of their bleating as well as astounded by the blatant hypocrisy characterised by Lawell’s peddling of the Selltic fairytale myth (any journos out there – I see it as your duty to expose this for the tripe that it is). Some see it as an inevitability that we’ll be rid of this gruesome twosome at some point in the near future – me? – I’m not so sure. But regardless of that outcome I think that the rest of Scottish Football should prepare and make sure they are ready if and when that day comes – at very least that should mean that they are ready to play hardball with the OF next time they decide to look for new ways to screw the life out of the Scottish game. And if the OF do get their own way and desert then at least we should have all the angles covered to ensure the future health of the Scottish League and national team.




May'be the Hibs Historical Trust could produce a short essay on the early days at Celtic.We could get a couple of thousand copies run off and pin one to every seat in the South Stand next time the Smellies come to visit.
Let the truth about their disgusting behaviour in the early days be understood and see how their recent actions are just history repeating itself.
That should the shut the fatuous Lawell up for a bit.

Phil MaGlass
13-10-2009, 08:21 AM
I don't doubt much of what the OP says is true, but, frankly, to dwell on something done against 'us' over a century ago risks accusations of us having the same sort of victim mentality that many Celtic fans continue to hold on to.

were still getting it in the ass from sellik,even after 120 yrs, jees, they took half a team from us in the last few years, they paid us pennies for Riordon,they dont give a damn about competition which they are still stifling in Scotland, if people on here think that was all in the past should wake up and smell the coffee.Sellick and the buns hold alot of sway at the SFA. I f people think they dont then they are seeing the Scottish game through blinkers.

JackRegan
13-10-2009, 08:30 AM
were still getting it in the ass from sellik,even after 120 yrs, jees, they took half a team from us in the last few years, they paid us pennies for Riordon,they dont give a damn about competition which they are still stifling in Scotland, if people on here think that was all in the past should wake up and smell the coffee.Sellick and the buns hold alot of sway at the SFA. I f people think they dont then they are seeing the Scottish game through blinkers.

Wha' ye been seein' Boab Coyle? :greengrin

Phil MaGlass
13-10-2009, 08:38 AM
:greengrin

huv tae say impressed at the way you persist to answer most of the questions/points raised,yi dinnae half get some grief though.Enjoyable reading watching you get it tight from the lads.:greengrin

sadtom
13-10-2009, 09:07 AM
1.) I don't think you actually read my posts as I have said what you have mentioned in point 1 more than once here.

2.) The difference is, Glasgow had more poverty than Edinburgh. Celtic provides colour, purpose and focus to people who live an otherwise, hard and bleak life.

3.) SOrry but your continued comparisons to Beverly Allitt are a bit sick.

1) I've read your posts, but am pleased to hear that you accept that celtcs charitable roots are not only a myth but more to the point, that the clubs raison d'etre is not only based on self interest and greed but that it actually crushed the ethos of charity and helping the poor.
For celtc to then claim that charity and assistance is part of their make up, when their 'soul' or 'dna' in in fact diametrically opposed to this claim, is shameful.

2) Aye, the punters of the cowgate would often quoff champers and gorge themselves on truffles prior to heading of to see the fledgling Hibernains!
Anyway thats not the point. If the lumpen masses who chose to attach themselves to a club who shared none of their hardship and struggle. A club, who in fact stole help and assistance from them and then claimed to be their champion, then its more fool them.
As i said before, if those people wanted a 'distraction' and an affiliation with a club who reflected their own personal conditions, then they chose the wrong club.
Its not the actions of celtc (professionalism, and the stamping on the idea of self help and assistance for others) that i particularly find disgusting. Its the fact that they have for over a century traded on the lie that they were exactly the opposite of what they actually were. To the point where it is repeated ad nauseum. Just like Lawell the other day.
As a Hibs fan i find this particularly distasteful. Its not just the fact that you stole our colours, our players, and delivered us a mortal blow in the process. Its the fact that you have stolen our birthright, our identiy and our reallity and used it as your own. Thats what turns my stomach.

3) You are right, it is sick. Not me making the comparison but the fact that the comparison has a modicum of truth. Celtc appear to glean some sort of weird satisfaction in others misery.
It seems Celtc are always trying to offer themselves as a 'shoulder to cry on' while basking in the reflected sympathy offered by others to the suffering.
Tear vampires!

Your most redeeming feature is you're not the huns.:greengrin

JackRegan
13-10-2009, 09:07 AM
:greengrin

huv tae say impressed at the way you persist to answer most of the questions/points raised,yi dinnae half get some grief though.Enjoyable reading watching you get it tight from the lads.:greengrin

Phil, if I get a well thought out post and I feel the poster has a point, I will generally concede - to be honest I've posted stuff on here that you could drive a bus through, although it does not always get picked up on!! :greengrin

SouthsideHarp_Bhoy
13-10-2009, 12:36 PM
I have read this whole thread, and risking accusations of being a closet celtic fan, i have to say loads of posters on these threads (and any that involve JR) are out of order.

Having a debate is fine, disagreeing etc is fine, but some of you have made your minds up on an issue and then just use the charade of a debate to have a go at someone who seems to me a be a reasonable and well informed poster - The irony being that you show the same blinkered attitudes, myopic views and intractible points of view based on hatred that you will slag the OF off for.

(this isnt everyone just the guys who dont even seem to respond to JRs posts, just have another go)

For what its worth i think there are plenty of reasons to dislike celtic, and i do agree with the guy who says the love to be victims (they are exactly like Scousers in that respect imho).

But if youre only contribution is to make a rant at someone who seems to me reasonable then you are as bad as those you profess to hate. I mean do you only want to debate with people who will reinforce your own opinion?

SouthsideHarp_Bhoy
13-10-2009, 12:38 PM
1)
It seems Celtc are always trying to offer themselves as a 'shoulder to cry on' while basking in the reflected sympathy offered by others to the suffering.
Tear vampires!


:thumbsup:

basehibby
13-10-2009, 01:27 PM
I have read this whole thread, and risking accusations of being a closet celtic fan, i have to say loads of posters on these threads (and any that involve JR) are out of order.

Having a debate is fine, disagreeing etc is fine, but some of you have made your minds up on an issue and then just use the charade of a debate to have a go at someone who seems to me a be a reasonable and well informed poster - The irony being that you show the same blinkered attitudes, myopic views and intractible points of view based on hatred that you will slag the OF off for.

(this isnt everyone just the guys who dont even seem to respond to JRs posts, just have another go)

For what its worth i think there are plenty of reasons to dislike celtic, and i do agree with the guy who says the love to be victims (they are exactly like Scousers in that respect imho).

But if youre only contribution is to make a rant at someone who seems to me reasonable then you are as bad as those you profess to hate. I mean do you only want to debate with people who will reinforce your own opinion?

Fair points there - whether you agree with Jack or not he certainly stands his corner and makes his points in a reasoned and affable enough way - he also ploughs his own furrow rather than sticking religiously to the Selltic party line - hats off to you in that respect Jack :thumbsup:

weecounty hibby
13-10-2009, 08:08 PM
[QUOTE=sadtom;2204551]1)

As a Hibs fan i find this particularly distasteful. Its not just the fact that you stole our colours, our players, and delivered us a mortal blow in the process. Its the fact that you have stolen our birthright, our identiy and our reallity and used it as your own. Thats what turns my stomach.


:top marksThis is the point that I think JR and most Celtic fans is missing. I dont care about their songs or their policies but it is this "Celtic story" garbage that really gets me. The story they have used about the early days is in fact the Hibs story changed to suit their own agendas. Peter Lawell makes me cringe with all that bull**** about their story being similar to Man Utds and how he wants the Celtic story told to a worldwide audience. It is like the way Hollywood takes a factual story and changes it to suit the US viewpoint, if you say it often enough and long enough it starts to become believed as reality.

Luna_Asylum
13-10-2009, 08:24 PM
1) I've read your posts, but am pleased to hear that you accept that celtcs charitable roots are not only a myth but more to the point, that the clubs raison d'etre is not only based on self interest and greed but that it actually crushed the ethos of charity and helping the poor.
For celtc to then claim that charity and assistance is part of their make up, when their 'soul' or 'dna' in in fact diametrically opposed to this claim, is shameful.

2) Aye, the punters of the cowgate would often quoff champers and gorge themselves on truffles prior to heading of to see the fledgling Hibernains!
Anyway thats not the point. If the lumpen masses who chose to attach themselves to a club who shared none of their hardship and struggle. A club, who in fact stole help and assistance from them and then claimed to be their champion, then its more fool them.
As i said before, if those people wanted a 'distraction' and an affiliation with a club who reflected their own personal conditions, then they chose the wrong club.
Its not the actions of celtc (professionalism, and the stamping on the idea of self help and assistance for others) that i particularly find disgusting. Its the fact that they have for over a century traded on the lie that they were exactly the opposite of what they actually were. To the point where it is repeated ad nauseum. Just like Lawell the other day.
As a Hibs fan i find this particularly distasteful. Its not just the fact that you stole our colours, our players, and delivered us a mortal blow in the process. Its the fact that you have stolen our birthright, our identiy and our reallity and used it as your own. Thats what turns my stomach.

3) You are right, it is sick. Not me making the comparison but the fact that the comparison has a modicum of truth. Celtc appear to glean some sort of weird satisfaction in others misery.
It seems Celtc are always trying to offer themselves as a 'shoulder to cry on' while basking in the reflected sympathy offered by others to the suffering.
Tear vampires!

Your most redeeming feature is you're not the huns.:greengrin

now you are taking that too far....

1875godsgift
13-10-2009, 08:37 PM
[QUOTE=sadtom;2204551]1)

:top marksThis is the point that I think JR and most Celtic fans is missing. I dont care about their songs or their policies but it is this "Celtic story" garbage that really gets me. The story they have used about the early days is in fact the Hibs story changed to suit their own agendas. Peter Lawell makes me cringe with all that bull**** about their story being similar to Man Utds and how he wants the Celtic story told to a worldwide audience. It is like the way Hollywood takes a factual story and changes it to suit the US viewpoint, if you say it often enough and long enough it starts to become believed as reality.

http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/page/TimelineDetail/0,,10290~1750603,00.html (http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/page/TimelineDetail/0,,10290%7E1750603,00.html)

They haven't changed have they? Money grabbing bar-stewards!

southern hibby
13-10-2009, 08:56 PM
Jack,
Please don't take this as an insult to yourself (as I don't know you I wouldn't comment on you). But do you not get the feeling we just don't like either of the Bigot brothers and as you can read for yourself we would happily pack your bags to get rid of either of you.

Your proud clubs that were once at the front of football have managed to stay stagnated in their neanderthal view of bigotry (yes and we've got a few fans as well) but at least we're managing to come to terms that we're Scottish and not an Irish and as for Rangers they would be right at home in Northern Ireland.

I for one really don't care about either or your attitude and believe about what you can and cannot manage to do. Please just go to England and take your bigoted brothers with you and leave our proud club and country to get on with our league.

If this really did happen I for one would be glad to see the back of you's.

sadtom
14-10-2009, 08:32 AM
now you are taking that too far....

Its not too far at all. Its 100% accurate and as Weecounty Hibby states its not the superficial aspects that matter to me, its precisely the fact that they have used our story as their own, when in fact their actions and practises were directly at odds with the fable they pass as fact.

As weecounty says its all so very 'hollywood', its the yanks cracking the enigma code, or Tom Cruise being the 'last Samurai' (:faf:).

Every time the 'celtic story' is played at theatres round the world we should have 'agents of truth' (Hibbies:greengrin) there to hand out fliers highlighting their lies and hypocracy.
The flyers could be titled
IF YOU KNOW YOUR HISTORY?

Fife-Hibee
14-10-2009, 08:33 AM
[QUOTE=weecounty hibby;2205111]

http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/page/TimelineDetail/0,,10290~1750603,00.html (http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/page/TimelineDetail/0,,10290%7E1750603,00.html)
They haven't changed have they? Money grabbing bar-stewards!

Brings a tear to a glass eye reading that, horrible smelly barstewards. Hope you all drown in your own colin nish. GLORY GLORY TO the HIBEES.

Woody1985
14-10-2009, 03:53 PM
Is anyone else glad that we've not turned out like them?

Could it have been that all the bigots attached themselves to Hibs in the same way they have Celtic?

Yes, they've had success built on those foundations give me Hibs 6th in the league any day rather than all their BS.