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View Full Version : Time for the OF to smell the Coffee,



InchHibby
09-10-2009, 09:56 AM
1) Who but themselves think that they would be an addition to any other League in Europe.
2) Who but themselves think that the OF derby is the greatest game on the Planet.
3) Who but themselves think that they deserve a bigger slice of any monies raised through TV rights.
4) Who but themselves think you become a better player and can handle pressure better if you have played with either of the OF and of course make a better TV Pundit.
5) Who but themselves think that any major decisions within the League should have input from them first and foremost.
6) Who but themselves think they have the divine right to win all matches home and away within the Premier and if not hold an inquest.
7) Who but themselves think that they have just about sorted the Bigotry and Religous Hatred that (still & always will) exists between them.
8) Who but themselves thinks that singing their Bigoted Rants at away Grounds is acceptable.
9) Who but themselves think that all this hatred for each others religous beleifs will dissappear if they move to another League.
10) Who but themselves should wake up and smell the coffee and once and for all realise that no decent League wants them simply for the disgusting hate filled baggage that comes along with them.

Christ I feel better now. ::bitchy:

Ravelston Hibby
09-10-2009, 10:00 AM
1) Who but themselves think that they would be an addition to any other League in Europe.
2) Who but themselves think that the OF derby is the greatest game on the Planet.
3) Who but themselves think that they deserve a bigger slice of any monies raised through TV rights.
4) Who but themselves think you become a better player and can handle pressure better if you have played with either of the OF and of course make a better TV Pundit.
5) Who but themselves think that any major decisions within the League should have input from them first and foremost.
6) Who but themselves think they have the divine right to win all matches home and away within the Premier and if not hold an inquest.
7) Who but themselves think that they have just about sorted the Bigotry and Religous Hatred that (still & always will) exists between them.
8) Who but themselves thinks that singing their Bigoted Rants at away Grounds is acceptable.
9) Who but themselves think that all this hatred for each others religous beleifs will dissappear if they move to another League.
10) Who but themselves should wake up and smell the coffee and once and for all realise that no decent League wants them simply for the disgusting hate filled baggage that comes along with them.

Christ I feel better now. ::bitchy:

No too much better for the 'morn though! :wink: :greengrin

I'll have a large Espresso btw! :aok:

brog
09-10-2009, 10:17 AM
Sorry if this is duplicated elsewhere but Tom English wrote a magnificent article about the OF & the latest derby in the Scotsman, on Wednesday I think. If anyone can download it it's really worth a reasd.

Sergey
09-10-2009, 10:34 AM
Sorry if this is duplicated elsewhere but Tom English wrote a magnificent article about the OF & the latest derby in the Scotsman, on Wednesday I think. If anyone can download it it's really worth a reasd.

Link (http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/sport/Tom-English-39The-Old-Firm.5709351.jp)

hibs1875aye
09-10-2009, 11:36 AM
1) Who but themselves think that they would be an addition to any other League in Europe.
2) Who but themselves think that the OF derby is the greatest game on the Planet.
3) Who but themselves think that they deserve a bigger slice of any monies raised through TV rights.
4) Who but themselves think you become a better player and can handle pressure better if you have played with either of the OF and of course make a better TV Pundit.
5) Who but themselves think that any major decisions within the League should have input from them first and foremost.
6) Who but themselves think they have the divine right to win all matches home and away within the Premier and if not hold an inquest.
7) Who but themselves think that they have just about sorted the Bigotry and Religous Hatred that (still & always will) exists between them.
8) Who but themselves thinks that singing their Bigoted Rants at away Grounds is acceptable.
9) Who but themselves think that all this hatred for each others religous beleifs will dissappear if they move to another League.
10) Who but themselves should wake up and smell the coffee and once and for all realise that no decent League wants them simply for the disgusting hate filled baggage that comes along with them.

Christ I feel better now. ::bitchy:

11) Who but themselves think it's acceptable to dine on rats of an evening, steal hubcaps and claim it's all "banter" :greengrin

Top post mate. Agree with the lot. OFGTF. :thumbsup:

brog
09-10-2009, 11:38 AM
Link (http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/sport/Tom-English-39The-Old-Firm.5709351.jp)


Thanks G, full marks to Tom E for this, as he says " it's a sporting tragedy that a generation of kids are being raised on muck like this"!!

Franck is God
09-10-2009, 11:52 AM
A really good article by Tom English and sadly every part of it is true.

My most disappointing moment of the last few years in Scottish football was when Hibs and the others withdrew their resignations from the SPL.

We had them by the short and curlies at that point, the rest of Scottish football would never have sided with the Old Firm and we should be ruling football in Scotland but unfortunately a few squeaky bums gave the power straight back for only a few extra sweeties....

JackRegan
09-10-2009, 12:04 PM
1) Who but themselves think that they would be an addition to any other League in Europe.
2) Who but themselves think that the OF derby is the greatest game on the Planet.
3) Who but themselves think that they deserve a bigger slice of any monies raised through TV rights.
4) Who but themselves think you become a better player and can handle pressure better if you have played with either of the OF and of course make a better TV Pundit.
5) Who but themselves think that any major decisions within the League should have input from them first and foremost.
6) Who but themselves think they have the divine right to win all matches home and away within the Premier and if not hold an inquest.
7) Who but themselves think that they have just about sorted the Bigotry and Religous Hatred that (still & always will) exists between them.
8) Who but themselves thinks that singing their Bigoted Rants at away Grounds is acceptable.
9) Who but themselves think that all this hatred for each others religous beleifs will dissappear if they move to another League.
10) Who but themselves should wake up and smell the coffee and once and for all realise that no decent League wants them simply for the disgusting hate filled baggage that comes along with them.

Christ I feel better now. ::bitchy:


To answer your questions and for the record, I don't want Celtic to play in England, but here goes.

1.) English club chairmen and chairmen of big clubs in small countries.
2.) I don't know any Celtic or Rangers fan who thinks our derby is the greatest in the world. its certainly "up there" but not the best. Certainly not now with the poor quality on the pitch, however vivitors from England and abroad do seem to rate it quite highly.
3.) We do get a bigger slice of TV money, plus its our games that are in demand, ergo its our games which are shown and its to fans of our respective clubs. To say we don't deserve more is churlish.
4.) The club's cannot be responsible for who the TV companies employ as pundits, but as every player will tell you there IS more pressure involved in playing for Celtic or Rangers, than there is at any other club in Scotland.
5.) I agree with this point, however the MArtin Bain's and Peter Lawwell's will argue thet their clubs bring more money into the Scottish game.
6.) Never felt this way as a Celtic fan and don't know many who have. its the huns who sing "we are the people", its them who have the superiority complex. Where you may be getting confused is that we deserve more effort from some players who are being paid a helluva lot more than the guys they are up against.
7.) Celtic have never had a problem with religion. yes there is a problem with the pro IRA element, but IRA ditties have long been absent from CP and fans at Celtic (bar a hardcore 5 or 6 thousand) have accepted this. We've also never had a sectarian signing policy. We've also never had any overtly politcal displays SANCTIONED by the club. Whereas Rangers have - in the weeks prior to Holyrood elections, they had a day to celebrate 300 years of the union. Their fans (Rangers Supporters Trust) make a point of celebrating the club's "Protestant tradition" What do they mean by that? They are the only club to mention religion as part oftheir club's "tradition".
8.) Agree. Rebel tunes must be binned, they are archaic. I say this as someone who supports the Irish Republican Movement in a general sense.
9.) Like I said, Celtic fans don't hate anyone based purely on their religion, to be fair most Rangers fans don't either. I don't think anyone is suggesting this aspect of our rivalry with Rangers will go away, they are becoming marginalasied at Celtic so that's something, but believe me - things are nowhere near as bad as they were.
10.) Can't speak for Rangers, but remember we did win awards from UEFA and FIFA for our conduct in Seville. Our behaviour in Milan in 2007 saw Scotland get an increased allocation for the qualifier there. After visiting Villareal, Barcelona, Dortmund and Stuttgart, their fans formed Celtic friendship associations and have been guests of honour at the club. We are invited to England at least 3 times a year and Greater Manchester Police commended our conduct following our Champions League tie there in 2008.

There you go. I will await your constructive counter to each point.

JackRegan
09-10-2009, 12:07 PM
A really good article by Tom English and sadly every part of it is true.

My most disappointing moment of the last few years in Scottish football was when Hibs and the others withdrew their resignations from the SPL.

We had them by the short and curlies at that point, the rest of Scottish football would never have sided with the Old Firm and we should be ruling football in Scotland but unfortunately a few squeaky bums gave the power straight back for only a few extra sweeties....

I read Tom English article. What he did, and what many other journey's do is drag up the lwoest common denominator from each support, who are also generally people who, lets say, are from the lower end of the socio-economic scale.

He then passes this off as the norm and produces a piece of "car crash" for the delctation of those who feel the need to wallow in self righteous indignation and sanctimony.

BTW West Brit Tom is non too popular in his native Ireland.

Kato
09-10-2009, 12:16 PM
9.) Like I said, Celtic fans don't hate anyone based purely on their religion,


Tell me, when we you given permission to speak for all Celtic fans?

I must have been mistaken then when a Celtic spat in my face outside Parkhead and called me a "Scottish Protestant *******".

Fair do's though they might haev been displaying their hatred for me based on the "Scottish" and "*******" bits.

Jonnyboy
09-10-2009, 12:19 PM
I read Tom English article. What he did, and what many other journey's do is drag up the lwoest common denominator from each support, who are also generally people who, lets say, are from the lower end of the socio-economic scale.

He then passes this off as the norm and produces a piece of "car crash" for the delctation of those who feel the need to wallow in self righteous indignation and sanctimony.

BTW West Brit Tom is non too popular in his native Ireland.

As opposed to highlighting the silent majority you mean?

Lets be honest Jack, your argument is no more valid than that expressed by Tom English. His angle is no doubt based on the fact that any match involving either side of the OF witnesses tens of thousands of fans singing songs that have their base in bigotry. I refer of course to home games where tens of thousands are congregated.

In away games the 'problem' is even more accentuated as it seems the vast majority of OF fans in attendance insist on belting out those very songs. Now forgive me for not understanding but I find it astonishing that you might blame those that are from the are from the lower end of the socio-economic scale. Frankly I think that is bunkum unless of course you are saying that those fans have more purchasing power than the ones from the middle and upper socio economic scale?

The bottom line for me is that until and unless OF fans accept that there is a bigotry problem it will never go away.

Kato
09-10-2009, 12:21 PM
The bottom line for me is that until and unless OF fans accept that there is a bigotry problem it will never go away.


So it's never going to go away then.

JackRegan
09-10-2009, 12:26 PM
Tell me, when we you given permission to speak for all Celtic fans?

I must have been mistaken then when a Celtic spat in my face outside Parkhead and called me a "Scottish Protestant *******".

Fair do's though they might haev been displaying their hatred for me based on the "Scottish" and "*******" bits.

I don't speak for all, but I certainly know more than the original poster.

Also what happened to you is a disgrace and on behalf of Celtic fans, I apologise. Guys who did that will get there's soon enough.

Kato
09-10-2009, 12:32 PM
I don't speak for all, but I certainly know more than the original poster.

Also what happened to you is a disgrace and on behalf of Celtic fans, I apologise. Guys who did that will get there's soon enough.

Not really interested in an apology, I go to games to follow Hibs no matter what and fully understand that their are dickheads in every support. BTW I kicked his shin, pretty hard, told him I was Scottish and a ******* and asked what he was going to do about it. The answer apparently was run away.

Just pointing out that their are religious bigots within the Celtic support, back-then, now and there will be in the future. To say there isn't is just myopic.

In what way will guys like that get their's?

JackRegan
09-10-2009, 12:36 PM
As opposed to highlighting the silent majority you mean?

Lets be honest Jack, your argument is no more valid than that expressed by Tom English. His angle is no doubt based on the fact that any match involving either side of the OF witnesses tens of thousands of fans singing songs that have their base in bigotry. I refer of course to home games where tens of thousands are congregated.

In away games the 'problem' is even more accentuated as it seems the vast majority of OF fans in attendance insist on belting out those very songs. Now forgive me for not understanding but I find it astonishing that you might blame those that are from the are from the lower end of the socio-economic scale. Frankly I think that is bunkum unless of course you are saying that those fans have more purchasing power than the ones from the middle and upper socio economic scale?

The bottom line for me is that until and unless OF fans accept that there is a bigotry problem it will never go away.

I think my argument is more valid, in that I spend more time with Celtic fans than Tom English and yes I do feel socio econmic factors do have a huge part to play in all. It also has nothing to do with the respective individuals "purchasing power" more a case of financial priorities - this is also borne out by the higher proposrtion of poor people who smoke and drink.

Don't know if I can say the same for Rangers fans, but certainly it is the case among poorer Celtic fans, who put their plight down to establishment bigotry keeping them down, whereas those of us who have done all right know this to be a thing of the past. These are the gusy at away gammes Johnny, they are total utter dregs mate, who I might add were not present when we were garbage in the 90's.

For the record Celtic did admit there was a problem when McCann launched Bhoys against Bigotry (an initiative that was panned by Murray's tabloid poodles). It will not go away when these self same poodles, ignore and in some cases DEFEND Rangers bigotry and bringing up songs (like the Novo one) which have only appeared on a fans website.

if Celtic fans do something bang out of order - fine mention it, slaughter us but do so in isolation. They should do the same with Rangers - if they trangress - mention, but do it in isolation instead of fabricating stuff to try and portray some sense of balance. For example, in his Manchester aftermath report - Bill LEckie mentioned Celtic and our fans more than Rangers.

The media have a huge part to play IMO, but they don't want it to go away and would rather stir things up, rather than report the truth.

JackRegan
09-10-2009, 12:38 PM
Not really interested in an apology, I go to games to follow Hibs no matter what and fully understand that their are dickheads in every support. BTW I kicked his shin, pretty hard, told him I was Scottish and a ******* and asked what he was going to do about it. The answer apparently was run away.

Just pointing out that their are religious bigots within the Celtic support, back-then, now and there will be in the future. To say there isn't is just myopic.

In what way will guys like that get their's?

Sorry, I was not denying it, just trying to say that it's generally not an issue.

As for getting "theirs" I meant your response or preferably something a bit more violent.

Trust me when I say I have run ins with these types at our away games, with sadly increasing regularity.

crewetollhibee
09-10-2009, 12:48 PM
Most fans in England hate Manchester Utd and Chelsea (maybe even Man City soon) because of their superior buying power which equals success on the park. What the OF don't understand is that our hatred of them is because their 'success' is based on pandering to religious bigots who have never seen the inside of an ecclesiastical building since their heads got wet. They spout their schect to opposing fans oblivious to the fact that their targets are also from the same creed and wonder why we object !!! And lets not hear anything about a so-called minority please. Dont insult us !!

JackRegan
09-10-2009, 12:51 PM
Most fans in England hate Manchester Utd and Chelsea (maybe even Man City soon) because of their superior buying power which equals success on the park. What the OF don't understand is that our hatred of them is because their 'success' is based on pandering to religious bigots who have never see the inside of an ecclesiastical building since their heads got wet. They spout their schect to opposing fans oblivious to the fact that their targets are also from the same creed and wonder why we object !!! And lets not hear anything about a so-called minority please. Dont insult us !!

In what way did Celtic FC pander to religious bigots? How did this manifest inteslf in terms of direct actions on the club's part?

Hibercelona
09-10-2009, 12:52 PM
if Celtic fans do something bang out of order - fine mention it, slaughter us but do so in isolation. They should do the same with Rangers.

No.

If Celtic or Rangers or any other team for that matter do something "bang out of order"... they should be named and shamed in the public... not in "isolation".

LamontHFC©
09-10-2009, 12:53 PM
To answer your questions and for the record, I don't want Celtic to play in England, but here goes.

1.) English club chairmen and chairmen of big clubs in small countries.
2.) I don't know any Celtic or Rangers fan who thinks our derby is the greatest in the world. its certainly "up there" but not the best. Certainly not now with the poor quality on the pitch, however vivitors from England and abroad do seem to rate it quite highly.
3.) We do get a bigger slice of TV money, plus its our games that are in demand, ergo its our games which are shown and its to fans of our respective clubs. To say we don't deserve more is churlish.
4.) The club's cannot be responsible for who the TV companies employ as pundits, but as every player will tell you there IS more pressure involved in playing for Celtic or Rangers, than there is at any other club in Scotland.
5.) I agree with this point, however the MArtin Bain's and Peter Lawwell's will argue thet their clubs bring more money into the Scottish game.
6.) Never felt this way as a Celtic fan and don't know many who have. its the huns who sing "we are the people", its them who have the superiority complex. Where you may be getting confused is that we deserve more effort from some players who are being paid a helluva lot more than the guys they are up against.
7.) Celtic have never had a problem with religion. yes there is a problem with the pro IRA element, but IRA ditties have long been absent from CP and fans at Celtic (bar a hardcore 5 or 6 thousand) have accepted this. We've also never had a sectarian signing policy. We've also never had any overtly politcal displays SANCTIONED by the club. Whereas Rangers have - in the weeks prior to Holyrood elections, they had a day to celebrate 300 years of the union. Their fans (Rangers Supporters Trust) make a point of celebrating the club's "Protestant tradition" What do they mean by that? They are the only club to mention religion as part oftheir club's "tradition".
8.) Agree. Rebel tunes must be binned, they are archaic. I say this as someone who supports the Irish Republican Movement in a general sense.
9.) Like I said, Celtic fans don't hate anyone based purely on their religion, to be fair most Rangers fans don't either. I don't think anyone is suggesting this aspect of our rivalry with Rangers will go away, they are becoming marginalasied at Celtic so that's something, but believe me - things are nowhere near as bad as they were.
10.) Can't speak for Rangers, but remember we did win awards from UEFA and FIFA for our conduct in Seville. Our behaviour in Milan in 2007 saw Scotland get an increased allocation for the qualifier there. After visiting Villareal, Barcelona, Dortmund and Stuttgart, their fans formed Celtic friendship associations and have been guests of honour at the club. We are invited to England at least 3 times a year and Greater Manchester Police commended our conduct following our Champions League tie there in 2008.

There you go. I will await your constructive counter to each point.

Oh, gie it a rest and stop blowin' your own trumpet.

Well, you must hang out with not your average Celtic or Rangers 'fan', cos' over on this side of town, they never stop harping on about about the 'greatest derby in the world' and 'most passionate etc. etc.' pish. .

We all know that the OF derby is an over-rated pile of pish, and the only ones who seem to not think this are the deluded OF 'fans'. .

JackRegan
09-10-2009, 12:56 PM
Oh, gie it a rest and stop blowin' your own trumpet.

Well, you must hang out with not your average Celtic or Rangers 'fan', cos' over on this side of town, they never stop harping on about about the 'greatest derby in the world' and 'most passionate etc. etc.' pish. .

We all know that the OF derby is an over-rated pile of pish, and the only ones who seem to not think this are the deluded OF 'fans'. .

"This side of town"?

You're from Edinburgh. I am from Glasgow. You do not hear fans of either clubs, guys who go to the games, say our derby is the best in the world. Far from it.

However, its still not bad and still gets a lot of interest around the world. Its not the polar opposite either - i.e. some insignifcant backwater minor league clash of little interest.

crewetollhibee
09-10-2009, 01:01 PM
In what way did Celtic FC pander to religious bigots? How did this manifest inteslf in terms of direct actions on the club's part?
Flying the tri-colour over Parkhead, pre season tours and friendlies to Ireland (yes I know we were there this year), and the fact that it was pressure from the Scottish Parliament that finally persuaded your club to address the vile songs that come from your support. Thats just 3 of the top of my head.

Kato
09-10-2009, 01:04 PM
if Celtic fans do something bang out of order - fine mention it, slaughter us but do so in isolation.



Most people outwith Rangers and Celtic fans see the two big Glasgow teams as one-bloated-two-headed entity - you even have a name for it yourselves - The Old Firm. Every ambition shown by one is adopted by the other, for every stupid dick-head fan supporting one there is another on the other side of that coin, and for every semi-intellectual apologist trying to minimize the bigotry shown by one team up pops one from the other side.

You're seen as one thing, two teams but one organization - in cahoots to perpetuate hatred for the sake of profit. You'll deny this is the reality but that's how you are perceived, and there is some semblance of reality in that.

JackRegan
09-10-2009, 01:05 PM
No.

If Celtic or Rangers or any other team for that matter do something "bang out of order"... they should be named and shamed in the public... not in "isolation".

You missed my point. Of course they should be named and shamed, but not like for example, when Rnagers trashed Manchester. Bill Leckie's reprt mentioned Celtic more than Rangers!!!

when Neil Lennon got assaulted by two Rangers fans, the Sun made light of it and the the Record did "balancing" job by saying Alan McGregors car gor vandalisied the previous week. When in fact it was later found out to be the work of a jealous ex girlfriend. Or the Novo "death threats" which amounted to a guy on a website saying what street he lived on, something that areas locla Paper (Teh Greenock Telegraph) had reported some montsh before.

JackRegan
09-10-2009, 01:09 PM
Flying the tri-colour over Parkhead, pre season tours and friendlies to Ireland (yes I know we were there this year), and the fact that it was pressure from the Scottish Parliament that finally persuaded your club to address the vile songs that come from your support. Thats just 3 of the top of my head.

Total Garbage. what has flying the Irish TriColour and visiting Ireland got to do with Religion????? Also, our visit to play Cork City was our first friendly game in the Irish Republic since 1992.

Also, let me remind you, we were founded by Irishmen, have a hiuge Irish support www.aicsc.com and our two main shareholder sare eh....Irish.

Also the Scottish Parliaminet have not had to tell Celtic what to sing and what not to sing at any time.

Fergus McCann in 1995 launched Bhoys against Bigotry to stop Rbel(Non religious songs) being sung in 1995.

Seriously, away and educate yourself and stop wasting your time posting nonsense.

Hibercelona
09-10-2009, 01:11 PM
You missed my point. Of course they should be named and shamed, but not like for example, when Rnagers trashed Manchester. Bill Leckie's reprt mentioned Celtic more than Rangers!!!

when Neil Lennon got assaulted by two Rangers fans, the Sun made light of it and the the Record did "balancing" job by saying Alan McGregors car gor vandalisied the previous week. When in fact it was later found out to be the work of a jealous ex girlfriend. Or the Novo "death threats" which amounted to a guy on a website saying what street he lived on, something that areas locla Paper (Teh Greenock Telegraph) had reported some montsh before.

Aye.... the sun and the record are bias towards Celtic and have a huge Rangers love in... :rolleyes:

Or it could be put down to the fact that these 2 papers are nothing more than bog paper.... and will print out any old nonsense.

The reason these papers are aloud to exist... is because people like yourself buy them.

What a waste of trees. :bitchy:

JackRegan
09-10-2009, 01:12 PM
Most people outwith Rangers and Celtic fans see the two big Glasgow teams as one-bloated-two-headed entity - you even have a name for it yourselves - The Old Firm. Every ambition shown by one is adopted by the other, for every stupid dick-head fan supporting one there is another on the other side of that coin, and for every semi-intellectual apologist trying to minimize the bigotry shown by one team up pops one from the other side.

You're seen as one thing, two teams but one organization - in cahoots to perpetuate hatred for the sake of profit. You'll deny this is the reality but that's how you are perceived, and there is some semblance of reality in that.

I actually hat ethe term "Old Firm" and this is certainly a growing consensus among the Celtic Support, we even have a banner about it. We have also campaigned at the AGM at ameeting with Lawwell to ditch joint comercial deals such as the T-Mobile and Carling sponsorship. theCeltic Board are now paying heed to this. Thankfully

That said, I think there is a marked difference in the mind set of both sets of fans.

Antifa Hibs
09-10-2009, 01:13 PM
If they go they go, if they don't, they don't. I'd rather them stay and we can watch them suffer.

The Old Firm know times are changing, they know no-one gives a damn about Scottish fitba and more importantly to them, the Old Firm. As i've said before the gloryhunting Paddys and Jocks are ditching trips to Glasgow for trips away to Villa, Everton and Man Utd. Instead of getting the latest replica ****** they release, they're kitting there kids in Liverpool and Arsenal gear.

It's worrying times ahead for the Old Firm, I think the fact Rangers had 10,000 spare seats and Celtic 20,000 spare seats in their European games proved that, and whats brought this on. They don't have the pulling power anymore, and i'm for one loving it. Obvisouly the gap between the top 2 and the rest is still worlds apart, but its getting closer every season. As the seasons go on both Weegie clubs are getting less season tickets, they only sellout versus eachother, drops are dipping. I guestimate in 5-10 years time Rangers and Celtic will have 30000-35000 season ticket holders max, and OF fans have agree'd with that.

I'll lose no sleep if they do go, but it is pretty stupid that you can just jump ship whenever things don't suit you. I mean where does it stop? Paris is closer to London than Glasgow, can PSG move across and get some premierleague pie? Do Ajax join the Bundesliga to get some of their billions? If your in a league that is pesh (partly there fault I may add) then your stuck with it. Get on with it instead of greeting like wee daft lassies.

Antifa Hibs
09-10-2009, 01:16 PM
I actually hat ethe term "Old Firm" and this is certainly a growing consensus among the Celtic Support, we even have a banner about it. We have also campaigned at the AGM at ameeting with Lawwell to ditch joint comercial deals such as the T-Mobile and Carling sponsorship. theCeltic Board are now paying heed to this. Thankfully

That said, I think there is a marked difference in the mind set of both sets of fans.

Are they fk. The same celtic board that openly shaft there fans with Tam Cook with euro tickets etc for a profit? You think they're going to give two fuuuuuks about working with 'the enemy'. profit is profit and business is business to the suits, make no mistake, regardless of who they are working with.

It was only yesterday bain and lawell were holding hands crying about a move down south. only a few months ago the old firm were together moaning about the tele deal etc.

you's are nothing without eachother. ra tic and ra gers both need eachother.

JackRegan
09-10-2009, 01:17 PM
Aye.... the sun and the record are bias towards Celtic and have a huge Rangers love in... :rolleyes:

Or it could be put down to the fact that these 2 papers are nothing more than bog paper.... and will print out any old nonsense.

The reason these papers are aloud to exist... is because people like yourself buy them.

What a waste of trees. :bitchy:

Lets get one thing straight, I do not but any tabloid and that's not just for football reasons.

When it comes to choosing between Celtic and Rangers the tabloids ALWAYS back the huns. Through a company called Media House, Murray pays them £550k a year to have a posse of about 7 journalists in his back pocket and essentially on the Rangers payroll. Just look at the pressure James "succulent lamb" traynor and the DR put on the SFA, by lobbying for the Cup Final to be moved to suit Rangers. Also what Paper was it that compared Saddam Hussein with Fergus McCann on their front page?

Also, how many times have Scottish newspapers, TV and Radio station had to apologise to Celtic in the last 5 years? And how many times to Rangers?

Journalists such as Graham Spiers, Glen Gibbons and Roddy Forsyth have saiud this also. As did John Collins, who Keith Jackson threatened to sue over.

For the record, Jackson has still to lodge papers against John Collins.

JackRegan
09-10-2009, 01:18 PM
Are they fk.

It was only yesterday bain and lawell were holding hands crying about a move down south. only a few months ago the old firm were together moaning about the tele deal etc.

you's are nothing without eachother. ra tic and ra gers both need eachother.

And as I said, I found it very dissappointing, but not unexpected from a rodent such as Lawwell.

BTW They need us more than we need them. We even get a mention in their club song:wink:

Danderhall Hibs
09-10-2009, 01:21 PM
I think the difference between Rangers and Celtic is that Rangers fans know they're a bunch of bigoted idiots whereas Celtic fans don't and make up excuse after excuse for their fans behaviour.

Also - can we go and play in England as well? I quite fancy it.

JackRegan
09-10-2009, 01:21 PM
If they go they go, if they don't, they don't. I'd rather them stay and we can watch them suffer.

The Old Firm know times are changing, they know no-one gives a damn about Scottish fitba and more importantly to them, the Old Firm. As i've said before the gloryhunting Paddys and Jocks are ditching trips to Glasgow for trips away to Villa, Everton and Man Utd. Instead of getting the latest replica ****** they release, they're kitting there kids in Liverpool and Arsenal gear.

It's worrying times ahead for the Old Firm, I think the fact Rangers had 10,000 spare seats and Celtic 20,000 spare seats in their European games proved that, and whats brought this on. They don't have the pulling power anymore, and i'm for one loving it. Obvisouly the gap between the top 2 and the rest is still worlds apart, but its getting closer every season. As the seasons go on both Weegie clubs are getting less season tickets, they only sellout versus eachother, drops are dipping. I guestimate in 5-10 years time Rangers and Celtic will have 30000-35000 season ticket holders max, and OF fans have agree'd with that.

I'll lose no sleep if they do go, but it is pretty stupid that you can just jump ship whenever things don't suit you. I mean where does it stop? Paris is closer to London than Glasgow, can PSG move across and get some premierleague pie? Do Ajax join the Bundesliga to get some of their billions? If your in a league that is pesh (partly there fault I may add) then your stuck with it. Get on with it instead of greeting like wee daft lassies.

I think Celtic will always have potential, but its hard to disagree iwth your post, also I don't think it will be a bad thing either.

I also think some of teh big ENglish clubs may see their attendances drop in 5 to 10 years time as well.

matty_f
09-10-2009, 01:22 PM
When Celtc were last at Easter Road, there were several fans making shooting gestures at us while we were leaving the ground.

JackRegan
09-10-2009, 01:23 PM
I think the difference between Rangers and Celtic is that Rangers fans know they're a bunch of bigoted idiots whereas Celtic fans don't and make up excuse after excuse for their fans behaviour.

Also - can we go and play in England as well? I quite fancy it.

When have Celtic or Celtic fans had to make excuses for our behaviour and who has done this on our behalf?

also when did Ranger, their fans or the media admit that the huns were a bunch of knuckle dragging bigots - I must have missed that??

Surley not the same Scottish Media and Martin Bain who blamed Manchester on English interlopers???

JackRegan
09-10-2009, 01:26 PM
When Celtc were last at Easter Road, there were several fans making shooting gestures at us while we were leaving the ground.

Like I said Matty, the away support has attracted utter utter dregs and pondlife. There might not be too many as a proportion of the support overall, but there is enough of them, they are very vocal and they are as bold as ****.

As I have mentioned here before, its the cause of a lot of aggro among Celtic fans on away trips.

Polis need to start lifting the "away day Provos".

matty_f
09-10-2009, 01:28 PM
Any respect I might have ever had for Celtc disappeared this season, when all the crying about the injustice of Eduardo's dive, how Arsenal were cheating so and sos, only to have McCheaty booked for the same thing in their next match, and I think 2 players booked for it on Sunday?

Not just bigots, but hypocrites too.

matty_f
09-10-2009, 01:29 PM
Like I said Matty, the away support has attracted utter utter dregs and pondlife. There might not be too many as a proportion of the support overall, but there is enough of them, they are very vocal and they are as bold as ****.

As I have mentioned here before, its the cause of a lot of aggro among Celtic fans on away trips.

Polis need to start lifting the "away day Provos".

There wasn't much aggro when they did it, in fact everyone that saw it either laughed at it, joined in, or did nothing.

Kato
09-10-2009, 01:30 PM
Total Garbage. what has flying the Irish TriColour and visiting Ireland got to do with Religion?????



To be fair to Jack, there isn't anything remotely bigoted n those things.



Also, let me remind you, we were founded by Irishmen,


You were founded by erstwhile Hibs fans.

Sir David Gray
09-10-2009, 01:31 PM
7.) Celtic have never had a problem with religion. yes there is a problem with the pro IRA element, but IRA ditties have long been absent from CP and fans at Celtic (bar a hardcore 5 or 6 thousand) have accepted this. We've also never had a sectarian signing policy. We've also never had any overtly politcal displays SANCTIONED by the club. Whereas Rangers have - in the weeks prior to Holyrood elections, they had a day to celebrate 300 years of the union. Their fans (Rangers Supporters Trust) make a point of celebrating the club's "Protestant tradition" What do they mean by that? They are the only club to mention religion as part oftheir club's "tradition".

I'm pretty sure that your chairman, John Reid, announced that your club was marking "National Famine Day" during a game at Easter Road earlier this year, which led to your fans bringing along flags and banners which made reference to Celtic being established on the back of famine and oppression or something ridiculous like that.

The whole "day" was organised by the Irish Government and Celtic chose to associate themselves with it so I would say that it definitely had political connections.

JackRegan
09-10-2009, 01:31 PM
Any respect I might have ever had for Celtc disappeared this season, when all the crying about the injustice of Eduardo's dive, how Arsenal were cheating so and sos, only to have McCheaty booked for the same thing in their next match, and I think 2 players booked for it on Sunday?

Not just bigots, but hypocrites too.

Who from Celtic complained about Eduardo's dive?

matty_f
09-10-2009, 01:32 PM
Who from Celtic complained about Eduardo's dive?

:faf::faf::faf::faf::faf::faf::faf:

Hibercelona
09-10-2009, 01:34 PM
Who from Celtic complained about Eduardo's dive?

wooooooooooooooooooooosh

crewetollhibee
09-10-2009, 01:34 PM
Total Garbage. what has flying the Irish TriColour and visiting Ireland got to do with Religion????? Also, our visit to play Cork City was our first friendly game in the Irish Republic since 1992.

Also, let me remind you, we were founded by Irishmen, have a hiuge Irish support www.aicsc.com (http://www.aicsc.com) and our two main shareholder sare eh....Irish.

Also the Scottish Parliaminet have not had to tell Celtic what to sing and what not to sing at any time.

Fergus McCann in 1995 launched Bhoys against Bigotry to stop Rbel(Non religious songs) being sung in 1995.

Seriously, away and educate yourself and stop wasting your time posting nonsense.
Aye your right. I think I will go on one of the OF fan's sites, I will get a real education there wont I ? None so blind eh ?

Antifa Hibs
09-10-2009, 01:34 PM
Another thread bites the dust with boring sectarianism irrelevant ******.

A thread is started about the football/business side of the gruesome twosome and desends into the usual ireland/britian/uda/provo's nonsense. your all meant to be against this crap but you aren't all half obsessed by it.

decent thread ruined once again...

matty_f
09-10-2009, 01:35 PM
Sorry, Jack - that was disrespectful and I shouldn't have laughed.

Obviously nobody from Celtc complained about it, and I would probably have to look long and hard to find someone from Celtc (I assume your not counting the bleatin', greetin' fans in this.)

Anyway, a quick google later and what do you know?

Celtc are cheating hypocrites (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/aug/27/arsenal-champions-league-celtic)

Hibercelona
09-10-2009, 01:38 PM
Sorry, Jack - that was disrespectful and I shouldn't have laughed.

Obviously nobody from Celtc complained about it, and I would probably have to look long and hard to find someone from Celtc (I assume your not counting the bleatin', greetin' fans in this.)

Anyway, a quick google later and what do you know?

Celtc are cheating hypocrites (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/aug/27/arsenal-champions-league-celtic)

http://www.metro.co.uk/sport/football/article.html?Angry_Celtic_call_for_Eduardo_ban&in_article_id=727545&in_page_id=43

and here....

http://www.tribalfootball.com/scottish-fa-join-celtic-call-ban-arsenals-eduardo-280841

and here....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1209332/SFA-chief-Gordon-Smith-dives-Eduardo-row-demanding-UEFA-ban-Arsenal-striker.html

and here....

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/european/celtic-call-for-eduardo-to-be-handed-european-ban-1777837.html

JackRegan
09-10-2009, 01:39 PM
I'm pretty sure that your chairman, John Reid, announced that your club was marking "National Famine Day" during a game at Easter Road earlier this year, which led to your fans bringing along flags and banners which made reference to Celtic being established on the back of famine and oppression or something ridiculous like that.

The whole "day" was organised by the Irish Government and Celtic chose to associate themselves with it so I would say that it definitely had political connections.

Difference is the Famine had a direct bearing on the formation of our club, its not ridiculous, as you crassly put it.

I'm always wary of people who found the An Gorta Mor banner offensive.

JackRegan
09-10-2009, 01:41 PM
http://www.metro.co.uk/sport/football/article.html?Angry_Celtic_call_for_Eduardo_ban&in_article_id=727545&in_page_id=43

and here....

http://www.tribalfootball.com/scottish-fa-join-celtic-call-ban-arsenals-eduardo-280841

and here....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1209332/SFA-chief-Gordon-Smith-dives-Eduardo-row-demanding-UEFA-ban-Arsenal-striker.html

and here....

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/european/celtic-call-for-eduardo-to-be-handed-european-ban-1777837.html

Read the articles.

Two are from a guy who said so, the day he left the club and two from the SFA.

the club stance was to "Get over it" quote Tony Mowbray.

matty_f
09-10-2009, 01:43 PM
Sorry, Jack - that was disrespectful and I shouldn't have laughed.

Obviously nobody from Celtc complained about it, and I would probably have to look long and hard to find someone from Celtc (I assume your not counting the bleatin', greetin' fans in this.)

Anyway, a quick google later and what do you know?

Celtc are cheating hypocrites (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/aug/27/arsenal-champions-league-celtic)


Read the articles.

Two are from a guy who said so, the day he left the club and two from the SFA.

the club stance was to "Get over it" quote Tony Mowbray.

:whistle:

JackRegan
09-10-2009, 01:43 PM
Sorry, Jack - that was disrespectful and I shouldn't have laughed.

Obviously nobody from Celtc complained about it, and I would probably have to look long and hard to find someone from Celtc (I assume your not counting the bleatin', greetin' fans in this.)

Anyway, a quick google later and what do you know?

Celtc are cheating hypocrites (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/aug/27/arsenal-champions-league-celtic)


Big difference from "the Club" and a plyer who knew he was leaving spouting off.

matty_f
09-10-2009, 01:44 PM
Big difference from "the Club" and a plyer who knew he was leaving spouting off.

:thumbsup:

'Course there is Jack, if there wasn't it'd ****** your point right up.

JackRegan
09-10-2009, 01:45 PM
Another thread bites the dust with boring sectarianism irrelevant ******.

A thread is started about the football/business side of the gruesome twosome and desends into the usual ireland/britian/uda/provo's nonsense. your all meant to be against this crap but you aren't all half obsessed by it.

decent thread ruined once again...

Sorry mate but it was not me who started the irrelevant sectariasm side of thngs.

I actually think some Edinburgh punters don't really want to see it leave the game.

Antifa Hibs
09-10-2009, 01:45 PM
Difference is the Famine had a direct bearing on the formation of our club, its not ridiculous, as you crassly put it.

I'm always wary of people who found the An Gorta Mor banner offensive.



****** it, everyone else is guan off topic so might aswell join in. :cool2:

Don't think anyone found the Green Brigade's or the Jungle Bhoys banners at that game offensive, more along the lines of sad and pathetic. And thats coming from someone with strong Republican views, attended numerous Connolly marches etc.

JackRegan
09-10-2009, 01:46 PM
:thumbsup:

'Course there is Jack, if there wasn't it'd ****** your point right up.

Sorry but I think its signifcant that club officials when asked, specifically gave a "no comment".

Jonnyboy
09-10-2009, 01:48 PM
I think my argument is more valid, in that I spend more time with Celtic fans than Tom English and yes I do feel socio econmic factors do have a huge part to play in all. It also has nothing to do with the respective individuals "purchasing power" more a case of financial priorities - this is also borne out by the higher proposrtion of poor people who smoke and drink.

Don't know if I can say the same for Rangers fans, but certainly it is the case among poorer Celtic fans, who put their plight down to establishment bigotry keeping them down, whereas those of us who have done all right know this to be a thing of the past. These are the gusy at away gammes Johnny, they are total utter dregs mate, who I might add were not present when we were garbage in the 90's.

For the record Celtic did admit there was a problem when McCann launched Bhoys against Bigotry (an initiative that was panned by Murray's tabloid poodles). It will not go away when these self same poodles, ignore and in some cases DEFEND Rangers bigotry and bringing up songs (like the Novo one) which have only appeared on a fans website.

if Celtic fans do something bang out of order - fine mention it, slaughter us but do so in isolation. They should do the same with Rangers - if they trangress - mention, but do it in isolation instead of fabricating stuff to try and portray some sense of balance. For example, in his Manchester aftermath report - Bill LEckie mentioned Celtic and our fans more than Rangers.

The media have a huge part to play IMO, but they don't want it to go away and would rather stir things up, rather than report the truth.

Serious question Jack. Why do the tickets for Celtic fans find their way into the hands of the group you describe? Do the group you belong in not follow Celtic away?

Bhoys against Bigotry and its Rangers equivalent the name I which I can't recall at the moment were certainly attempts to address the problem but they've clearly failed. It's not enough for either club to claim they've made the effort when so much more could be done.

Both Parkhead and Ibrox have extensive CCTV installations. Why don't both clubs start a systematic removal of fans seen to be indulging in the bigotry Celtic and Rangers claim they are trying to eradicate? Removal of season tickets from offenders would be a start don't you think? I suspect you might argue it's the non season ticket holders that misbehave? If that's your response can you tell me the capacity of Parkhead and the current number of season ticket holders?

JackRegan
09-10-2009, 01:49 PM
****** it, everyone else is guan off topic so might aswell join in. :cool2:

Don't think anyone found the Green Brigade's or the Jungle Bhoys banners at that game offensive, more along the lines of sad and pathetic. And thats coming from someone with strong Republican views, attended numerous Connolly marches etc.

Would not say they are sad and pathetic, but I did feel a sense of "not again" when it appeared.

I can't put my finger on how I feel but all I'll say is "okay bhoys, I think they get the message, let glass case it in the CSA social club.".

JackRegan
09-10-2009, 01:54 PM
Serious question Jack. Why do the tickets for Celtic fans find their way into the hands of the group you describe? Do the group you belong in not follow Celtic away?
Bhoys against Bigotry and its Rangers equivalent the name I which I can't recall at the moment were certainly attempts to address the problem but they've clearly failed. It's not enough for either club to claim they've made the effort when so much more could be done.

Both Parkhead and Ibrox have extensive CCTV installations. Why don't both clubs start a systematic removal of fans seen to be indulging in the bigotry Celtic and Rangers claim they are trying to eradicate? Removal of season tickets from offenders would be a start don't you think? I suspect you might argue it's the non season ticket holders that misbehave? If that's your response can you tell me the capacity of Parkhead and the current number of season ticket holders?

Various means.

1.) Gansgter/Ned types from the East End running the Association, giving them to their ned sons, who think they have the run of the support on the grounds of their "quoted" connections.

2.) Lack of demand for away games, excacerbated by away day provos/neds

3.) The levy Celtic put on clubs for distributing away tickets, resulting oin clubs selling direct to fans.

Curremt Capacity of CP is around 60,400 and we have 52,000 season ticket holders. Many of said bams don't go to home games or have a ST,as for the reasons outlined above - they don't need one. Home games are boring and present too big a risk of being huckled - one reason for the lack of Provo tunes at home games.

The_Todd
09-10-2009, 02:09 PM
To answer your questions and for the record, I don't want Celtic to play in England, but here goes.

1.) English club chairmen


Based on what? The EPL doesn't want the Old Firm:


"The Premier League can see no practical way nor any sound commercial reasons why Celtic and Rangers should enter the English system, certainly not that they should be parachuted into the Premiership," said Premier League chief executive Richard Scudamore.

Alex Ferguson also spoke of the OF quitting the SPL - but not to join the EPL, but for the good of the SPL itself http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/ferguson-favours-old-firm-exit-639840.html

and from an ex-Everton CEO...


However, it would appear that there is little appetite for such a move north or south of the border. Keith Wyness, the former chief executive of Aberdeen and Everton, was taken aback by the reports and believes that Celtic and Rangers would add nothing to what is arguably the best league in the world.



He spent four years at Goodison Park before leaving last summer and claims that England's top clubs did not once discuss the possibility of Celtic and Rangers moving south.



Indeed, he revealed that, on the rare occasions when they were mentioned in Premiership boardrooms, the main topic of conversation was the potential problems that their travelling supporters may cause

Jonnyboy
09-10-2009, 02:12 PM
Various means.

1.) Gansgter/Ned types from the East End running the Association, giving them to their ned sons, who think they have the run of the support on the grounds of their "quoted" connections.

2.) Lack of demand for away games, excacerbated by away day provos/neds

3.) The levy Celtic put on clubs for distributing away tickets, resulting oin clubs selling direct to fans.

Curremt Capacity of CP is around 60,400 and we have 52,000 season ticket holders. Many of said bams don't go to home games or have a ST,as for the reasons outlined above - they don't need one. Home games are boring and present too big a risk of being huckled - one reason for the lack of Provo tunes at home games.

So basically you're arguing that those 52,000 are not guilty of displaying any sort of bigotry? I cannae help but think that your argument is kinda along the lines of a big boy done it and ran away. Sorry for my scepticism Jack but I'm struggling with the concept of 60,400 fans being dictated to by the neds, who form a much smaller number.

I admire the way you fight your corner but it's disappointing that you basically toe the party line in using the 'minority' argument. I've been at Parkhead in recent years and heard some of the sectarian tripe sung but it was so loud it could not possibly have come from just the 'neds.'

As I said earlier, the club needs to acknowledge it has a problem and deal with it properly instead of half baked campaigns like Bhoys against Bigotry. There's a poster on here who uses the expression 'men in suits' (you know who you are :greengrin) and I'm willing to bet it was such a group that created the campaign. In other words men in suits who are good with words. It's action that's needed, not words. The same goes for Rangers lest you think I'm picking on your club.

I once laughed loudly at a sketch on Only an Excuse where Barry Ferguson was asked how he thought Rangers would do against bigotry and he replied 'ah've no seen thum play but if we gie it oor best we should beat them' It's funny but it's also tragic because in the same way 'Barry' didn't really grasp the question, Celtic and Rangers are guilty of doing exactly the same.

Keith_M
09-10-2009, 02:25 PM
JR, when you come on here and try to defend the indefensible, it only re-inforces our view of you and your fellow fans.

The "they're not real fans" argument is so poor it shouldn't need explained. A bit like the Rangers "fans" in Manchester then? What a pathetic attempt to dissasociate your support from any guilt or blame. As soon as something is done by people purporting to be Sellik supporters, you just need to disown them and your conscience is clear.

Why do your cohorts glorify killing and maiming people? Or harp on about events from 150 years ago? Oh, that's right, it's politics. Really? So the sufferings of your ancestors are worth making a big deal about, despite that fact that it no longer happens but the low quality of life in run down parts of Glasgow should remain unmentioned? Surely THAT'S relevant 'politics'?

Make some banners and sing about the injustices that are happening now and stop living in the past. Then come back on here and give us your self-righteous lectures.

matty_f
09-10-2009, 02:31 PM
Sorry mate but it was not me who started the irrelevant sectariasm side of thngs.

I actually think some Edinburgh punters don't really want to see it leave the game.

So it's our fault now? :faf:


Sorry but I think its signifcant that club officials when asked, specifically gave a "no comment".

So, who was Donati's employer at the time of the quote?

JackRegan
09-10-2009, 02:34 PM
So it's our fault now? :faf:



So, who was Donati's employer at the time of the quote?


C'mon Matty even someone of your limited thinking ability knows I was not suggesting that.

Technically he was still a Celtic Player, but that is a far cry from "the club", again surely you can see that.

Then again maybe I'm giving you too much credit. :wink:

matty_f
09-10-2009, 02:36 PM
C'mon Matty even someone of your limited thinking ability knows I was not suggesting that.

Technically he was still a Celtic Player, but that is a far cry from "the club", again surely you can see that.

Then again maybe I'm giving you too much credit. :wink:

Limited thinking ability?

A good sign of this is when your argument is shown up to be pish, and you start on the personal insults...

JackRegan
09-10-2009, 02:38 PM
JR, when you come on here and try to defend the indefensible, it only re-inforces our view of you and your fellow fans.

The "they're not real fans" argument is so poor it shouldn't need explained. A bit like the Rangers "fans" in Manchester then? What a pathetic attempt to dissasociate your support from any guilt or blame. As soon as something is done by people purporting to be Sellik supporters, you just need to disown them and your conscience is clear.

Why do your cohorts glorify killing and maiming people? Or harp on about events from 150 years ago? Oh, that's right, it's politics. Really? So the sufferings of your ancestors are worth making a big deal about, despite that fact that it no longer happens but the low quality of life in run down parts of Glasgow should remain unmentioned? Surely THAT'S relevant 'politics'?

Make some banners and sing about the injustices that are happening now and stop living in the past. Then come back on here and give us your self-righteous lectures.

Sorry but where did I defend them or say they were not real fans??? Its a far cry from how Rangers "manged" the Manchester scenario. As I stated, in what I thought was a lcear fashion, these guys are bona fide Celtic fans. No question. Seriously, where are my excuses or denials?????? As for my conscince on the matter, of course mine is clear - I don't behave like an ******** when supporting my club and as we have shown, neither do teh majority of Celtic fans.

Seriously, I genuinly don't think you read what I posted, or you chose to misinterpret them.

JackRegan
09-10-2009, 02:40 PM
Limited thinking ability?

A good sign of this is when your argument is shown up to be pish, and you start on the personal insults...

Not that any hibs fan on here would resort to that when discussing my points.

Like I said, "The club" is a big difference to a guy interviewd en rout eto signing for another club. If you cannot see, or fail to recognise that distinction, then I will draw my own conclusions. Sorry.

matty_f
09-10-2009, 02:43 PM
Not that any hibs fan on here would resort to that when discussing my points.

Like I said, "The club" is a big difference to a guy interviewd en rout eto signing for another club. If you cannot see, or fail to recognise that distinction, then I will draw my own conclusions. Sorry.



He was representing Celtc when he was asked the question. You asked who from Celtc had complained about the dive.

I answered, now you're trying to say the answer doesn't count because the boy wasn't really representing Celtc.

I would suggest, Jack, that your thinking ability is limited in that you will not accept that you are wrong in this instance, and that there is clear evidence of someone from Celtc complaining about Eduardo's dive.

banarc7062
09-10-2009, 02:53 PM
I read Tom English article. What he did, and what many other journey's do is drag up the lwoest common denominator from each support, who are also generally people who, lets say, are from the lower end of the socio-economic scale.

He then passes this off as the norm and produces a piece of "car crash" for the delctation of those who feel the need to wallow in self righteous indignation and sanctimony.

BTW West Brit Tom is non too popular in his native Ireland.

It is still a great article as far as I am concerned and your reaction is only to be expected from supporter of Celtic or Rangers. For the majority of other football fans in Scotland I suspect the views expressed are wholeheartedly seconded.:hnet:

JackRegan
09-10-2009, 02:56 PM
So basically you're arguing that those 52,000 are not guilty of displaying any sort of bigotry? I cannae help but think that your argument is kinda along the lines of a big boy done it and ran away. Sorry for my scepticism Jack but I'm struggling with the concept of 60,400 fans being dictated to by the neds, who form a much smaller number.

I admire the way you fight your corner but it's disappointing that you basically toe the party line in using the 'minority' argument. I've been at Parkhead in recent years and heard some of the sectarian tripe sung but it was so loud it could not possibly have come from just the 'neds.'

As I said earlier, the club needs to acknowledge it has a problem and deal with it properly instead of half baked campaigns like Bhoys against Bigotry. There's a poster on here who uses the expression 'men in suits' (you know who you are :greengrin) and I'm willing to bet it was such a group that created the campaign. In other words men in suits who are good with words. It's action that's needed, not words. The same goes for Rangers lest you think I'm picking on your club.

I once laughed loudly at a sketch on Only an Excuse where Barry Ferguson was asked how he thought Rangers would do against bigotry and he replied 'ah've no seen thum play but if we gie it oor best we should beat them' It's funny but it's also tragic because in the same way 'Barry' didn't really grasp the question, Celtic and Rangers are guilty of doing exactly the same.

Sorry Johnny but there is no mass form of bigotry shown at home games. Also I never said that the neds were "dictating" things, however, they are a menacing presence at away games, that is why the tunes ra emore heard there. Home games - Isolated bams shouting over at visiting fans? Maybe, but the whole ground belting out the Rebs? Sorry, that does not happen. I also cannot think of hwne it happened v Hibs as you mentioned. What was the song? I am prepared to stand corrected on this.

As for Bhoys against Bigotry, I don't think it was a hollow or "half baked" campaign at all. I don't argue that it was not commercially motivated, but it certainly tapped into a change of attitude, beahviour and dare I say personal fortunes of Celtic fans. Ant Irish/Catholic discrimination basically left Scotland in the 80's, fewer and fewer Celtic fans could claim to have been discrminated against because of their religion. Fewer and fewer felt tied into their Catholic/Irish upringing, hence the "Super Pape" fan got more and more margianlised.

when the huns beat us on Sunday, the whole stadium, belted out Derry's Walls among others. I have not heard Celtic Park, to a man stand up and belt out Boys of the Old Brigade since the ground went all seated in 1995.

JackRegan
09-10-2009, 02:57 PM
It is still a great article as far as I am concerned and your reaction is only to be expected from supporter of Celtic or Rangers. For the majority of other football fans in Scotland I suspect the views expressed are wholeheartedly seconded.:hnet:

Every article that panders to prejudices and pre-concived opinions is a great article. :wink:

JackRegan
09-10-2009, 02:59 PM
]He was representing Celtc when he was asked the question.[/B] You asked who from Celtc had complained about the dive.

I answered, now you're trying to say the answer doesn't count because the boy wasn't really representing Celtc.

I would suggest, Jack, that your thinking ability is limited in that you will not accept that you are wrong in this instance, and that there is clear evidence of someone from Celtc complaining about Eduardo's dive.

No he wasn't. He was speaking in a personal capacity.

Let me put it this way..when Gary Caldwell, said Celtic were guilty of paying foreign players more and under valuing Scottish players - was he speaking on behalf of the club, or in a personal capacity???

Seriously Matty, your arguments are tenious and very very tedious.

matty_f
09-10-2009, 03:06 PM
No he wasn't. He was speaking in a personal capacity.

Let me put it this way..when Gary Caldwell, said Celtic were guilty of paying foreign players more and under valuing Scottish players - was he speaking on behalf of the club, or in a personal capacity???

Seriously Matty, your arguments are tenious and very very tedious.

Pot and kettle, Jack.

I think you need to look at how you're prepared to be pedantic as ****** with any of the points raised against Celtc, but when someone does it back you spit the dummy and come back with insults.

That's tedious, and it's hypocritical, but then we shouldn't really expect anything less.

FWIW, you asked "who from Celtic (sic) complained about Eduardo's dive?".

Based on what question was answered, and your subsequent attempt to argue that he wasn't from "the club", would you agree that it is really your argument (that the boy was leaving anyway) that was tenuous?

HibsNibs
09-10-2009, 03:08 PM
Oi Johnny Cash - All this guff about flying the tricolour etc being political / celebrating your heritage blah blah blah is just plausible deniability. Everyone knows what it's really all about so do us a favour and belt up.

JackRegan
09-10-2009, 03:10 PM
Pot and kettle, Jack.

I think you need to look at how you're prepared to be pedantic as ****** with any of the points raised against Celtc, but when someone does it back you spit the dummy and come back with insults.

That's tedious, and it's hypocritical, but then we shouldn't really expect anything less.

FWIW, you asked "who from Celtic (sic) complained about Eduardo's dive?".

Based on what question was answered, and your subsequent attempt to argue that he wasn't from "the club", would you agree that it is really your argument (that the boy was leaving anyway) that was tenuous?

Seriously Matty, you reduced to semantics.

The initial sentiment of yours and another post was that Celtic, The club, were cereating a massive hoo haa about this. Celtic never.

There really is no point in continuing this. If you think that's me conceding and its going to make your weekend, then wire in mate. :wink:

JackRegan
09-10-2009, 03:12 PM
Oi Johnny Cash - All this guff about flying the tricolour etc being political / celebrating your heritage blah blah blah is just plausible deniability. Everyone knows what it's really all about so do us a favour and belt up.

So what is us flying the Irish Tri-colour really all about? :confused:

Does it offend you? If so, why?

matty_f
09-10-2009, 03:14 PM
Seriously Matty, you reduced to semantics.

The initial sentiment of yours and another post was that Celtic, The club, were cereating a massive hoo haa about this. Celtic never.

There really is no point in continuing this. If you think that's me conceding and its going to make your weekend, then wire in mate. :wink:

No, we're talking about the wider Celtc, the bleating fans as much as the official body of the club. You chose to make it about the club by (using limited thinking ability) bringing in the question I have quoted, when clearly the point was made about the general outcry from Celtc fans (as well as the club).

You're on a loser with this one Jack, your last sentence is as clear a kop out as I'd expect from you. Why can't you just say you're wrong with this one?

FWIW, it takes a lot more than getting one up on a Celtc fan to make my weekend, Jack. This little spat has zero impact on my life. My weekend will be made with the time I spend with my wife and kids - important things. Not the banality of Celtc Football Club.

Jonnyboy
09-10-2009, 03:16 PM
Sorry Johnny but there is no mass form of bigotry shown at home games. Also I never said that the neds were "dictating" things, however, they are a menacing presence at away games, that is why the tunes ra emore heard there. Home games - Isolated bams shouting over at visiting fans? Maybe, but the whole ground belting out the Rebs? Sorry, that does not happen. I also cannot think of hwne it happened v Hibs as you mentioned. What was the song? I am prepared to stand corrected on this.

As for Bhoys against Bigotry, I don't think it was a hollow or "half baked" campaign at all. I don't argue that it was not commercially motivated, but it certainly tapped into a change of attitude, beahviour and dare I say personal fortunes of Celtic fans. Ant Irish/Catholic discrimination basically left Scotland in the 80's, fewer and fewer Celtic fans could claim to have been discrminated against because of their religion. Fewer and fewer felt tied into their Catholic/Irish upringing, hence the "Super Pape" fan got more and more margianlised.

when the huns beat us on Sunday, the whole stadium, belted out Derry's Walls among others. I have not heard Celtic Park, to a man stand up and belt out Boys of the Old Brigade since the ground went all seated in 1995.

It was sung at a Hibs game as opposed to at Hibs fans and though I don't know the name of the 'ditty' it made reference to the Queen in a vile derogatory fashion. I'm no Royalist but identify that song as one based on bigotry just as I am no Republican but recognise 'Derry's Walls' as being based on bigotry.

I don't doubt that there's a substantial number of Celtic fans that would be happy to leave all that nonsense in the past and I guess the same might apply for a substantial number of Rangers fans wanting the same for their club BUT there is still, no matter how much you try to minimise it, a huge number on both sides that are willing and happy to carry it on.

There always seems to be a chip on the shoulder flavour to OF fans trying to suggest things are not as bad as they are made out. A defensive stand is taken and a siege mentality adopted and none of that helps to be honest.

You might not like the Tom English article and you might well question the motives for him writing it but what you surely cannot believe is that when you strip away all the flowery language there is not a major problem?

As an aside because it's not formed part of our exchange to date can I ask you which chairmen of English clubs want the OF in the EPL? Use of the plural interests me because as far as I'm aware (and I haven't followed the situation closely so I may be wrong) it is only one chairman - Phil Gartside of Bolton - that is pushing this idea to the EPL/FA.

JackRegan
09-10-2009, 03:17 PM
No, we're talking about the wider Celtc, the bleating fans as much as the official body of the club. You chose to make it about the club by (using limited thinking ability) bringing in the question I have quoted, when clearly the point was made about the general outcry from Celtc fans (as well as the club).

You're on a loser with this one Jack, your last sentence is as clear a kop out as I'd expect from you. Why can't you just say you're wrong with this one?

FWIW, it takes a lot more than getting one up on a Celtc fan to make my weekend, Jack. This little spat has zero impact on my life. My weekend will be made with the time I spend with my wife and kids - important things. Not the banality of Celtc Football Club.

right ye are Matty, right ye are. :thumbsup:

brog
09-10-2009, 03:17 PM
I read Tom English article. What he did, and what many other journey's do is drag up the lwoest common denominator from each support, who are also generally people who, lets say, are from the lower end of the socio-economic scale.

He then passes this off as the norm and produces a piece of "car crash" for the delctation of those who feel the need to wallow in self righteous indignation and sanctimony.

BTW West Brit Tom is non too popular in his native Ireland.

Jack, I have a lot of time for you & admire your ( mainly ) good natured attempts to fight your team's corner on this board. However you really do attempt to defend the indefensible when you attack Tom English for this article. I watched last week's game & heard tens of thousands of fans bellowing out No Surrender & The Boys of the Old brigade etc, recognising of course that Celtic fans were in a sizeable minority. While intelligent, articulate fans like yourself bury your head in the sand over these matters what hope is there for people at the lower end of the socio-economic scale?

J-C
09-10-2009, 03:22 PM
Once again a thread about the OF and how we as Hibs supporters hate them and all they stand for comes onto the board and good old Bhoy Mr Regan comes along trying his damnedest to justify all that is Celtic and what they are.

Jack why do you continually come on here and bite when someone has a go at your beloved Celtic, when you must realise that on a Hibs forum you are going to be shot down in flames, time and time again.

Please accept the fact that we as Hibs supporters will always dislike everything about the Infirm, just as much as we hate anything associated with the PBS.

By all means come on and talk about footballing matters, such as the weekend games, dubious decisions etc. but continually trying to defend your half of the OF is very tedious indeed and at times I feel sorry for you.

JackRegan
09-10-2009, 03:28 PM
It was sung at a Hibs game as opposed to at Hibs fans and though I don't know the name of the 'ditty' it made reference to the Queen in a vile derogatory fashion. I'm no Royalist but identify that song as one based on bigotry just as I am no Republican but recognise 'Derry's Walls' as being based on bigotry.

I don't doubt that there's a substantial number of Celtic fans that would be happy to leave all that nonsense in the past and I guess the same might apply for a substantial number of Rangers fans wanting the same for their club BUT there is still, no matter how much you try to minimise it, a huge number on both sides that are willing and happy to carry it on.

There always seems to be a chip on the shoulder flavour to OF fans trying to suggest things are not as bad as they are made out. A defensive stand is taken and a siege mentality adopted and none of that helps to be honest.

You might not like the Tom English article and you might well question the motives for him writing it but what you surely cannot suggest is that when you strip away all the flowery language there IS a major problerm and it is NOT being addressed by the clubs.

As an aside because it's not formed part of our exchange to date can I ask you which chairmen of English clubs want the OF in the EPL? Use of the plural interests me because as far as I'm aware (and I haven't followed the situation closely so I may be wrong) it is only one chairman - Phil Gartside of Bolton - that is pushing this idea to the EPL/FA.

Johnny, Tom English's article, as I saw it, was nothing more than a bit of "look at how bad Glasgow and Glaswegians are", regardless of the fact that the Celtic fans he speaks of are adolescents from Belfast.

But Tom, like most journalists, know their audience and yer average Scotsman reader likes nothing more than indulging in a bit of self righteous indignation at Glasgow's expense.

Re addressing the problem. As I have said on here for years, although some on here chose to ignore it, I am not denying both clubs have a problem, but the scale and nature is different at both clubs. Even Rangers supporting journalists, Graham Spiers and Roddy Forsyth admit that, as do more reasonable commentators like Ian Bell, for instance.

The media can do a lot as well, they ignore or even defend too much, particulalry the tabloids when it comes to Rangers. The SFA could do more, for example, a The Famine Song - deemed racist by the SFA's adviors on racisim, the poilce and the courts is always ignored. The one time it was mentioned in an SFA match report, the SFA have not acted upon it and there has been no clamour inthe press for them to do so.

Lastly, about the English Chairmen. I attended the aicsc dinner a few weeks back in Dublin. It was attended by Dermot Desomnd who said in his speech, that there was now a growing consensus among English Chairmen, that they would be okay with Celtic playing in England, however he did say that they were not prepared to go public, just yet. Although he did say that initially he would have thought it would have happened by now. I hope it never happens personally.

Jonnyboy
09-10-2009, 03:29 PM
Read the articles.

Two are from a guy who said so, the day he left the club and two from the SFA.

the club stance was to "Get over it" quote Tony Mowbray.

Did Donatti not play in that game Jack? If so I'd guess he made his mind up there and then that Eduardo was cheating. The fact that he subsequently left Celtic and that is used by you as a defence is pretty poor IMO.

Jonnyboy
09-10-2009, 03:32 PM
Johnny, Tom English's article, as I saw it, was nothing more than a bit of "look at how bad Glasgow and Glaswegians are", regardless of the fact that the Celtic fans he speaks of are adolescents from Belfast.

But Tom, like most journalists, know their audience and yer average Scotsman reader likes nothing more than indulging in a bit of self righteous indignation at Glasgow's expense.

Re addressing the problem. As I have said on here for years, although some on here chose to ignore it, I am not denying both clubs have a problem, but the scale and nature is different at both clubs. Even Rangers supporting journalists, Graham Spiers and Roddy Forsyth admit that, as do more reasonable commentators like Ian Bell, for instance.

The media can do a lot as well, they ignore or even defend too much, particulalry the tabloids when it comes to Rangers. The SFA could do more, for example, a The Famine Song - deemed racist by the SFA's adviors on racisim, the poilce and the courts is always ignored. The one time it was mentioned in an SFA match report, the SFA have not acted upon it and there has been no clamour inthe press for them to do so.

Lastly, about the English Chairmen. I attended the aicsc dinner a few weeks back in Dublin. It was attended by Dermot Desomnd who said in his speech, that there was now a growing consensus among English Chairmen, that they would be okay with Celtic playing in England, however he did say that they were not prepared to go public, just yet. Although he did say that initially he would have thought it would have happened by now. I hope it never happens personally.

As I said earlier Jack, strip all that away and the problem is still there in spades! It sounds like another convenient defence by OF fans to blame the media but hey, if the fans weren't doing it the hacks wouldn't write about it - simples :greengrin

Interesting what you say about the EPL thing :agree:

JackRegan
09-10-2009, 03:32 PM
Once again a thread about the OF and how we as Hibs supporters hate them and all they stand for comes onto the board and good old Bhoy Mr Regan comes along trying his damnedest to justify all that is Celtic and what they are.

Jack why do you continually come on here and bite when someone has a go at your beloved Celtic, when you must realise that on a Hibs forum you are going to be shot down in flames, time and time again.

Please accept the fact that we as Hibs supporters will always dislike everything about the Infirm, just as much as we hate anything associated with the PBS.

By all means come on and talk about footballing matters, such as the weekend games, dubious decisions etc. but continually trying to defend your half of the OF is very tedious indeed and at times I feel sorry for you.


JC,

i don't think I've been shot down in flames, plenty of disagreements obviously, but I think I've got a lot of points across pretty well.

I'm not asking Hibs to like us, that's not why I'm on here. As always, I just want to address some of the lies and myths being spouted about my club.

Also, as another of your posters stated, this board does seem to spend an inordinate amount of time talking about Celtic. :agree:

Lastly, I and to be fair others on here (even Matty Fairnie :greengrin) do endeavour to keep it football related.

J-C
09-10-2009, 03:40 PM
JC,

i don't think I've been shot down in flames, plenty of disagreements obviously, but I think I've got a lot of points across pretty well.

I'm not asking Hibs to like us, that's not why I'm on here. As always, I just want to address some of the lies and myths being spouted about my club.

Also, as another of your posters stated, this board does seem to spend an inordinate amount of time talking about Celtic. :agree:

Lastly, I and to be fair others on here (even Matty Fairnie :greengrin) do endeavour to keep it football related.


I think the fact that your club is whoring itself to the EPL is something this board and probably others in Scotland would be talking about.

You never, ever come on here and talk footballing matters, the only time you seem to post is when we have a go at Celtic on this board.

You of all people Jack must know about the history of the 2 clubs and this is the reason we dislike you so much, so when something rediculous happens there we take a lot of joy in slagging them off.

JackRegan
09-10-2009, 03:45 PM
As I said earlier Jack, strip all that away and the problem is still there in spades! It sounds like another convenient defence by OF fans to blame the media but hey, if the fans weren't doing it the hacks wouldn't write about it - simples :greengrin

Interesting what you say about the EPL thing :agree:

Jonny, I am not blaming the media, however their obsession with it, to the point of printing non stories (see Albion Rovers v the Shire), while ignoring real issues does not help matters.

Sectarianism, particlualry in Glasgow, manifests itself more readily in areas of deprivation, especially so among the Celtic half of the "divide".

What gets me on here, is not so much the criticism of Celtic, but the atitude towards Glasgow, from some on here and in Scotland a as whole, who like to view it as some sort of sectarian hell hole, where we're all at each others throat, which is very much at odds with reality. When in fact the people who have this view are seldom, if ever in the City.

I work in Brimingham a lot (your admin whould be able to verify this from my IP) and went to a Birmingham v Villa game. the city was in lockdown and it was total carnage. It was worse than Glasgow. Other city derbies are worse than Glasgow and there is no "side issues" in the rivalry, so if we all binned the Loyalist/Republican ditties, if we all suddenly became secularist humanists, would the game still be rid of the assaults etc? How much of the bother is down to plain old bitter football rivalry?

People often argue that there would be no war if there was no religion. but then again, what part did religion play in WW1, ww2, Vietnam, Amercian civil War etc etc.

Its the same with football to some degree. Tribalism is part of human, especially male nature. The world over shows us that when a big city or conurbation, has a high degree of deprivation and a love of football. SParks invariably fly.

We might take the "side issues" out, but the rivalry and all that comes with it will remain.

JackRegan
09-10-2009, 03:48 PM
I think the fact that your club is whoring itself to the EPL is something this board and probably others in Scotland would be talking about.

You never, ever come on here and talk footballing matters, the only time you seem to post is when we have a go at Celtic on this board.

You of all people Jack must know about the history of the 2 clubs and this is the reason we dislike you so much, so when something rediculous happens there we take a lot of joy in slagging them off.

Sorry JC, but I do come on here and talk about football at least I try to.

Anyway, as I said, I hate to hear of this Celtic to the EPL nonsense.

Lastly, I know all about the histry of both clubs and to Hibs you can add: Port Glasgow Hibs, Lochee Harp, Duntocher Harp, Carfin Hibs, Renton, Cowlairs and Queens Park. :wink:

JackRegan
09-10-2009, 03:52 PM
Did Donatti not play in that game Jack? If so I'd guess he made his mind up there and then that Eduardo was cheating. The fact that he subsequently left Celtic and that is used by you as a defence is pretty poor IMO.

He did. My point is that the original poster was the the club (Board Manager - the guys who act on the club's behalf) made a fuss over it, when they remained tight lipped.

the only Celtic FC employyee to comment was a guy who did so en rout eto signing for another club.

Personally, it nver ereally bothered me as we wre well out by that point and most Tims should have been venting their spleen at Lawwell for numerous other reasons.

greenginger
09-10-2009, 04:06 PM
He did. My point is that the original poster was the the club (Board Manager - the guys who act on the club's behalf) made a fuss over it, when they remained tight lipped.

the only Celtic FC employyee to comment was a guy who did so en rout eto signing for another club.

Personally, it nver ereally bothered me as we wre well out by that point and most Tims should have been venting their spleen at Lawwell for numerous other reasons.



Jack, you certainly stick up for your team, out of interest what part of Glasgow do you come from ?

Kawacabbage10
09-10-2009, 04:15 PM
"This side of town"?

You're from Edinburgh. I am from Glasgow. You do not hear fans of either clubs, guys who go to the games, say our derby is the best in the world. Far from it.

However, its still not bad and still gets a lot of interest around the world. Its not the polar opposite either - i.e. some insignifcant backwater minor league clash of little interest.

Why do you think that is the case Jack ?

Because it certainly is not the football on display as the games themeselves are enough to make your eyes bleed. I would say it's down to History and that History is based on hate, Protestant v Catholic, Irish v Brit etc, both clubs have milked it to the max and if you take that aspect away there is nothing worth seeing.

Green_one
09-10-2009, 04:39 PM
Difference is the Famine had a direct bearing on the formation of our club, its not ridiculous, as you crassly put it.

I'm always wary of people who found the An Gorta Mor banner offensive.

I think some of what you say in Celtic's defence is fair Jack but it is this inability to see what, to us, is often obvious that annoys. The linkage to emotive topics which Celtic then complain bitterly about is an example. The famine link is one such. How the hec does the famine directly bear on the formation of Celtic. The famine did increase the movement of people from Ireland to Scotland - true but that was almost 40 years before Celtic were formed. Hibs were formed 13 years before Celtic. Did we miss the famine somehow or were you guys just slow? Celtic, as I see it were created from the example of Hibs (who broke the ground and the bigotry), funded by publicans(or such like) and drawing from the classic working class / Irish sources. OK many might be there because of the famine but many might not. Most would have seen little of the event. This is typical of the 'trapped by history' that the OF suffers from. Make it more emotive than it is, then go to the emotional barracades. Hibs history makes me proud to be a Hibee. I do not ever need to mention the famine to make it so. And that is why we can move on and you guys are trapped, wrapped in the tricolour. Ditto the 1690 mob. Get the flutes out Billy, its our prod birth right. Move on guys, its the 21st century, its a football team. Nay chance, remember the famine and the Boyne. And before anyone starts, this is not a down playing of the actual famine, which was one of the greatest disasters in the history of these Isles.

Horse
09-10-2009, 05:20 PM
I think some of what you say in Celtic's defence is fair Jack but it is this inability to see what, to us, is often obvious that annoys. The linkage to emotive topics which Celtic then complain bitterly about is an example. The famine link is one such. How the hec does the famine directly bear on the formation of Celtic. The famine did increase the movement of people from Ireland to Scotland - true but that was almost 40 years before Celtic were formed. Hibs were formed 13 years before Celtic. Did we miss the famine somehow or were you guys just slow? Celtic, as I see it were created from the example of Hibs (who broke the ground and the bigotry), funded by publicans(or such like) and drawing from the classic working class / Irish sources. OK many might be there because of the famine but many might not. Most would have seen little of the event. This is typical of the 'trapped by history' that the OF suffers from. Make it more emotive than it is, then go to the emotional barracades. Hibs history makes me proud to be a Hibee. I do not ever need to mention the famine to make it so. And that is why we can move on and you guys are trapped, wrapped in the tricolour. Ditto the 1690 mob. Get the flutes out Billy, its our prod birth right. Move on guys, its the 21st century, its a football team. Nay chance, remember the famine and the Boyne. And before anyone starts, this is not a down playing of the actual famine, which was one of the greatest disasters in the history of these Isles.

Aye, we have a genuine history that we can be proud of. Celtic fans seem to re-write history to suit their own over inflated opinion of themselves when in reality their history is based around bigotry and glory hunting. Rangers are just as bad but seem to accept that they are based on bigotry and in a perverse way seem to be proud of it. I wouldn't lose any sleep if the Bigot brothers went to England and became mediocre sides. I would rather Hibs (or anyone else other than Hearts) managed to somehow win the league with the OF still there, after all the crap they spout about being held back by Scottish fitba they'd look pretty foolish if someone managed a Aberdeen 1980's style domination. Unlikely to happen but we can all dream!

Danderhall Hibs
09-10-2009, 05:46 PM
also when did Ranger, their fans or the media admit that the huns were a bunch of knuckle dragging bigots - I must have missed that??



That's my point. They never admit it - but they don't pretend they're not.


JR, when you come on here and try to defend the indefensible, it only re-inforces our view of you and your fellow fans.


:agree: Exactly what I'm getting at.

JackRegan
09-10-2009, 06:13 PM
Jack, you certainly stick up for your team, out of interest what part of Glasgow do you come from ?

Originally Colston, then Shawlands. Now reside in a wee village in Renfrewshire.

JackRegan
09-10-2009, 06:15 PM
I think some of what you say in Celtic's defence is fair Jack but it is this inability to see what, to us, is often obvious that annoys. The linkage to emotive topics which Celtic then complain bitterly about is an example. The famine link is one such. How the hec does the famine directly bear on the formation of Celtic. The famine did increase the movement of people from Ireland to Scotland - true but that was almost 40 years before Celtic were formed. Hibs were formed 13 years before Celtic. Did we miss the famine somehow or were you guys just slow? Celtic, as I see it were created from the example of Hibs (who broke the ground and the bigotry), funded by publicans(or such like) and drawing from the classic working class / Irish sources. OK many might be there because of the famine but many might not. Most would have seen little of the event. This is typical of the 'trapped by history' that the OF suffers from. Make it more emotive than it is, then go to the emotional barracades. Hibs history makes me proud to be a Hibee. I do not ever need to mention the famine to make it so. And that is why we can move on and you guys are trapped, wrapped in the tricolour. Ditto the 1690 mob. Get the flutes out Billy, its our prod birth right. Move on guys, its the 21st century, its a football team. Nay chance, remember the famine and the Boyne. And before anyone starts, this is not a down playing of the actual famine, which was one of the greatest disasters in the history of these Isles.

Good Post and I can't really disagree with any of it. As I said in response to ANtifa and others, the whole Famine and Reb thing is a bit archaic and irrelevent and indeed, less vocal Celts feel this way too.

Moody Mulder
09-10-2009, 06:27 PM
looks like the mighty stoke and burnley are cooling their interest ..... nae one wants them !!!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/scot_prem/8299777.stm

Sprouleflyer
09-10-2009, 06:29 PM
Is Jack Regan the new Shaun Lawson? Come hell or high water, he will defend his team to the hilt!!

joe breezy
09-10-2009, 06:32 PM
Is Jack Regan the new Shaun Lawson? Come hell or high water, he will defend his team to the hilt!!

Nothing better to do, 'sorry I'm in the wrong meeting'

Jonnyboy
09-10-2009, 07:08 PM
Jonny, I am not blaming the media, however their obsession with it, to the point of printing non stories (see Albion Rovers v the Shire), while ignoring real issues does not help matters.

Sectarianism, particlualry in Glasgow, manifests itself more readily in areas of deprivation, especially so among the Celtic half of the "divide".

What gets me on here, is not so much the criticism of Celtic, but the atitude towards Glasgow, from some on here and in Scotland a as whole, who like to view it as some sort of sectarian hell hole, where we're all at each others throat, which is very much at odds with reality. When in fact the people who have this view are seldom, if ever in the City.

I work in Brimingham a lot (your admin whould be able to verify this from my IP) and went to a Birmingham v Villa game. the city was in lockdown and it was total carnage. It was worse than Glasgow. Other city derbies are worse than Glasgow and there is no "side issues" in the rivalry, so if we all binned the Loyalist/Republican ditties, if we all suddenly became secularist humanists, would the game still be rid of the assaults etc? How much of the bother is down to plain old bitter football rivalry?

People often argue that there would be no war if there was no religion. but then again, what part did religion play in WW1, ww2, Vietnam, Amercian civil War etc etc.

Its the same with football to some degree. Tribalism is part of human, especially male nature. The world over shows us that when a big city or conurbation, has a high degree of deprivation and a love of football. SParks invariably fly.

We might take the "side issues" out, but the rivalry and all that comes with it will remain.

Blimey Jack, I find myself taking issue with you again!

To say WW2 had nothing to do with religion is daft IMO. Hitler's rise to power came about for a number of complex reasons but once he was there he brought out the full force of his hatred of people of the Jewish Faith. Hitler and his henchmen would have killed every Jew in Europe had they had the time to do so and had his plan for world domination come to be then every Jew on the planet would have been wiped out.

Adolf Hitler blamed the Jews for all the woes that befell Germany post WW1. Sure, he blamed the communists too and to a lesser degree catholics but the Jews were his big target.

Religion had a major part to play in the events of WW2

Kaiser1962
09-10-2009, 07:29 PM
To answer your questions and for the record, I don't want Celtic to play in England, but here goes.
3.) We do get a bigger slice of TV money, plus its our games that are in demand, ergo its our games which are shown and its to fans of our respective clubs. To say we don't deserve more is churlish.
.

Here's my problem Jack, and I am being constructive. Your guy Lawwell argues that the SPL is uncompetitive and does he wonder why? If he wants competition he would split the TV money, what there is, evenly and that would help, but h dosent. And when He's trying to get into England why is he not telling Fulham, West Ham, Portsmouth, Blackburn, Stoke et al that they will have to take less TV money as the people don't want to watch them when when they can watch Celtic. Nope, he hasn't mentioned that bit because I am sure they will accept it because not too is simply being "churlish". The last vote of English PL CHairmen was 20-0 against and tool less that five minutes. But ld on thats cos the are "fear" isn't it??

Kaiser1962
09-10-2009, 07:45 PM
Here's my problem Jack, and I am being constructive. Your guy Lawwell argues that the SPL is uncompetitive and does he wonder why? If he wants competition he would split the TV money, what there is, evenly and that would help, but h dosent. And when He's trying to get into England why is he not telling Fulham, West Ham, Portsmouth, Blackburn, Stoke et al that they will have to take less TV money as the people don't want to watch them when when they can watch Celtic. Nope, he hasn't mentioned that bit because I am sure they will accept it because not too is simply being "churlish". The last vote of English PL CHairmen was 20-0 against and tool less that five minutes. But ld on thats cos the are "fear" isn't it??

Sorry Jack, my keyboards pish, fill in the blanks its part of the fun

One Day Soon
09-10-2009, 10:19 PM
This is for Jack but also for any other fan of the Ugly Sisters looking in. I tend to be a slightly lengthy poster and I'm not going to foreshorten this one, I don't intend to miss and hit the wall. Apologies if this is a little Lawsonesque.

Let's start with this:

1.) English club chairmen and chairmen of big clubs in small countries.

Really? Name three who are on the record stating that they want you in their leagues - then tell us where a majority vote in favour is coming from.

And what a supreme irony it is that your club whose fans cherish their beloved Irish connection, whose fans' prior political sympathies and whose hostility to the national identity espoused by their Rangers cousins are now desperate to play in - of all places - the ENGLISH league. What next, Rangers applying to play in the Irish league?


2.) I don't know any Celtic or Rangers fan who thinks our derby is the greatest in the world. its certainly "up there" but not the best. Certainly not now with the poor quality on the pitch, however vivitors from England and abroad do seem to rate it quite highly.

This is just straightforward sophistry. Most Celtc and Rangers fans I know (which is many) think that their clubs are the biggest and best of everything - except they are being 'held back' by Scotland and the Scottish league. You may not think your derby is the best in the world - you must be just about the only one among your Celtc brothers and Rangers cousins. However it does have one top of the scale feature, a boiling atmosphere founded in sectarian hatred.


3.) We do get a bigger slice of TV money, plus its our games that are in demand, ergo its our games which are shown and its to fans of our respective clubs. To say we don't deserve more is churlish.

A bigger slice of the TV money? You are bloated and fattened through gorging on as much as you can get while everyone else has to make do with leftovers - and then your club and its cousin have the gall to complain about the lack of competition. You know if we take your argument to its logical conclusion really you ought to be playing in a two team league of yourselves and your other half. That way the two teams that exclusively REALLY generate the money can deliver the product those fans want. After all its not as if you play within a league containing a whole bunch of other teams whose games against the Ugly Sisters and against each other give the league meaning is it?

Every other team in Scotland operates on the basis of a geographical fan base built largely around the home location of the club. That means that those clubs have a natural limit to their support size. The only exceptions to this are the two teams which form the double headed monster fuelled by bigotry and sectarian divide. Its that religious basis which enables you to have a catchment area way beyond Glasgow. There are two consequences to this - one is that as this sickness slowly subsides the basis of those two club's dominance will also wither (that is beginning to manifest itself in dwindling attendances) and the other is that your presumed 'entitlement' to a bigger share of the TV money is not far from being blood money.


4.) The club's cannot be responsible for who the TV companies employ as pundits, but as every player will tell you there IS more pressure involved in playing for Celtic or Rangers, than there is at any other club in Scotland.

Rubbish. Do you really think that in the state of Scottish football there is more pressure playing for Rantic than there is playing for bottom of the league Falkirk or hand to mouth Motherwell or shoestring Killie? The only difference is that Rantic fans expect success in the form of the league or the two cups and are utterly unexcited when they get it. It is pedestrian to them. All teams face equal pressure, only about different things. It is patronising, ill informed and presumptious of you to assume that there is less pressure at smaller clubs. If anything the pressure is higher in the fight for survival. This should give you an inkling as to how far from reality the mindset of Rantic fans is.


5.) I agree with this point, however the MArtin Bain's and Peter Lawwell's will argue thet their clubs bring more money into the Scottish game.

No, actually they leech more money from the rest of the Scottish game. Let other clubs work hard to bring players through their youth networks and then poach the best for peanuts - that's one example of a pretty cheap way of keeping their dominance. If they bothered to have effective training and development facilities themselves why would they ever need to poach the best of what is raised elsewhere? Even the huge money world of American Football has the sense to understand the need for some kind of effective competition and balance which is why they have the draft system - here with the Ugly Sisters its just a case of 'we've got loads, now give us more'.


6.) Never felt this way as a Celtic fan and don't know many who have. its the huns who sing "we are the people", its them who have the superiority complex. Where you may be getting confused is that we deserve more effort from some players who are being paid a helluva lot more than the guys they are up against.

You must be joking right? Your mob have a very clearly defined and carefully honed and cherished reverse superiority complex. Where one side likes to parade (literally) its establishment superiority, the other likes to publicly proclaim its bleeding stump of persecution, victimisation and historical injustice. Celebrating 'Famine Day' at a football match - that's a FOOTBALL match - was a perfect example of that professional victim mentality, turned into reverse superiority. Your club wasn't born out of famine, it was born out of cynical exploitation of a pre-existing club - Hibs. Even then you were using financial clout to buy your way ahead of fair competition. And at this point let's make clear that we are not your 'cousins'. While you lot nearly killed us by stealing our players en masse our bitterest rivals, Hearts, I am led to believe actively supported us at one very difficult stage in our early history. We are closer cousins to Hearts than Celtc.

And where do you get off thinking that you deserve more effort from higher paid players? What totally effed up notion makes you think that how much a player is paid determines the level of effort it is fair to expect from them?


7.) Celtic have never had a problem with religion. yes there is a problem with the pro IRA element, but IRA ditties have long been absent from CP and fans at Celtic (bar a hardcore 5 or 6 thousand) have accepted this. We've also never had a sectarian signing policy. We've also never had any overtly politcal displays SANCTIONED by the club. Whereas Rangers have - in the weeks prior to Holyrood elections, they had a day to celebrate 300 years of the union. Their fans (Rangers Supporters Trust) make a point of celebrating the club's "Protestant tradition" What do they mean by that? They are the only club to mention religion as part oftheir club's "tradition".

Celtc have never had a problem with religion? Riiiiiiiiiiiiight. You don't think that a long history of participating in sectarian singing and fighting by your fans demonstrates a teensie problem with religion? The fact that almost everything your supporters say on these issues is defined by what the other side have or have not done amply demonstrates the fact that a) you are two sides of the same coin and b) the essential dynamic of what makes the two clubs is a very real investment in the nature of the other side remaining both constant and diametrically in conflict.


8.) Agree. Rebel tunes must be binned, they are archaic. I say this as someone who supports the Irish Republican Movement in a general sense.

Not much to disagree with there but then its basically decent civilised behaviour 101 and not anything especially praiseworthy.


9.) Like I said, Celtic fans don't hate anyone based purely on their religion, to be fair most Rangers fans don't either. I don't think anyone is suggesting this aspect of our rivalry with Rangers will go away, they are becoming marginalasied at Celtic so that's something, but believe me - things are nowhere near as bad as they were.

"Like I said, Celtic fans don't hate anyone based purely on their religion, to be fair most Rangers fans don't either." What? Do you live on the moon? Just remind us all what the current rate of match day stabbings and assaults is around your derbies. The police officers on duty for those derbies deserve a lot more than just overtime for their efforts. That really is public service.


10.) Can't speak for Rangers, but remember we did win awards from UEFA and FIFA for our conduct in Seville. Our behaviour in Milan in 2007 saw Scotland get an increased allocation for the qualifier there. After visiting Villareal, Barcelona, Dortmund and Stuttgart, their fans formed Celtic friendship associations and have been guests of honour at the club. We are invited to England at least 3 times a year and Greater Manchester Police commended our conduct following our Champions League tie there in 2008.

So basically you are great because you managed to go abroad and NOT smash the place up. Guess what - most other clubs manage that year in and year out without any great fanfare. The issue here is that fans of both of your clubs have a fairly long history of behaving pretty disgracefully in a variety of locations. UEFA and FIFA are basically desperate to encourage you to behave better so when you do - you get awards. Its a bit like congratulating a person every morning for managing to both get out of bed AND remember to keep breathing in and out.


There you go. I will await your constructive counter to each point.

Well this is Edinburgh so in answer to your awaiting my constructive counter I will say this. You'll have had your tea.

Captain Trips
10-10-2009, 09:21 AM
Around the 2 boardrooms of the OF a slight panic has come on again, not filtered down as much to the many arrogant supporters again not all are arrogant. Both clubs do not want a competative SPL if it means they dont finish in top 2, especially if Hibs, Hearts, Utd etc are the ones dislodging them.

Its far more acceptable to be 3rd or lower in EPL or another league. Hibs have run a tight ship over last few years and some other SPL clubs also are doing so now. The reason for me why the OF boards may be worried is the wages issue that IMo will change the SPL.

In the last 10yrs and more so in last 5 players wages have shot up but club income hasnt, its had a lesser effect on us as our market has remained similar to a point its affected the OF a lot more.

When OF paid a player 30k p/w they got a good player now they pay 30k for if they can afford it to Mr Average at best. With the right direction its time to take the OF down.

weecounty hibby
10-10-2009, 11:34 AM
It's just another way to try to make the OF fans believe they are still massive clubs. They have both had poor results in Europe, attendances are falling, other Scottish clubs are better run and may actually be closing the gap. So what do they do, claim that England wants them absolute BS but a lot of their fans will swallow it.

Has no one else picked up on the irony of Jack Regan blaming the poor and under priveleged on the bigotry problem at Celtic. I always thought that they were the champoins of the downtrodden but apparently Jack doesn't like them very much.

Tomsk
10-10-2009, 05:03 PM
They're bricking it. The (premier)ship is pulling out of port and they're still standing on the quayside. They can't even compete with the lower reaches of the premiership now and each passing year just increases the chasmatic gulf in class and financial muscle between them and the top premiership sides. They make all the noises about global fanbases and season ticket waiting lists but the truth is they are miles behind the likes of Aston Villa and Spurs never mind the clubs they actually would have to through in the premiership and then into the Champions League, Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea and Man U. And that's going to happen!

Meanwhile the SPL has been bled dry and they are careering down the financial pole. They find themselves paying over the top wages for second rate dross in order to maintain their position at the top of the SPL and keep alive the pretence that they are big players in European football. They haven't got a pot to piss in but they are talking about breaking the Premiership and launching into the Champions League. :faf:

One Day Soon
11-10-2009, 12:53 PM
I see that despite his inviting a debate/discussion JackRegan hasn't bothered to reply to my lengthy post above on his and the other half of the Ugly Sisters.

Not a big surprise - their position is pretty indefensible.

Woody1985
11-10-2009, 12:58 PM
It's just another way to try to make the OF fans believe they are still massive clubs. They have both had poor results in Europe, attendances are falling, other Scottish clubs are better run and may actually be closing the gap. So what do they do, claim that England wants them absolute BS but a lot of their fans will swallow it.

Has no one else picked up on the irony of Jack Regan blaming the poor and under priveleged on the bigotry problem at Celtic. I always thought that they were the champoins of the downtrodden but apparently Jack doesn't like them very much.

:faf:

Woody1985
11-10-2009, 01:05 PM
I see that despite his inviting a debate/discussion JackRegan hasn't bothered to reply to my lengthy post above on his and the other half of the Ugly Sisters.

Not a big surprise - their position is pretty indefensible.

I've just read your post and don't anticipate a response.

Ferryhibby
11-10-2009, 03:57 PM
Here we go again these bloody two are so conceited and suffer from real dillusions its unbelieveable for them to claim the spl is not good enuff where were all there fans when the 'real' european football came to their grounds last week half empty how is that our bloody fault i suppose then that having 0 - 0 draws against Wigan, Hull, Burnley etc will be better than the 0-0 draws against the spl teams. If they did go they would win sod all for many years to come and the last time that happened up here when the Dons and DUFC were winning stuff the OF fans stayed away in droves, i remember the pre souness days when the huns were really crap and couldnt fill their grounds as well as the sellik, thet are the ones who have devalued this league by bringing in substandard foreign players and buying all the good scottish talent to play them in the reserves and weakening our teams into the bargain. If they want to go then let them piss off, ungrateful bunch of bigoted ****

danofire
11-10-2009, 04:05 PM
lets get rid of them now - check out my online petition.

Spread the word!!!

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/oldfirmlessSPL/

:bye::bye::bye::bye::bye::bye::bye::bye:

Woody1985
11-10-2009, 04:32 PM
lets get rid of them now - check out my online petition.

Spread the word!!!

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/oldfirmlessSPL/

:bye::bye::bye::bye::bye::bye::bye::bye:

I'd sign a petition that was more constuctive and the point articulated a bit better. Using the word **** in your petition makes you look stupid.

Something along the lines of them constantly bringing the game into disrepute, as stipulated in SFA regulations, by contantly raising the issue of leaving our league and damaging the reputation as well as making any potential future investors wary of investment as there is a risk they will leave. That would go down a bit better.

JackRegan
12-10-2009, 11:50 AM
.


There you go. I will await your constructive counter to each point.

.


1.) As stated in response to Jonnyboy. Dermot Desmond has been on record saying ther is growing support in England, but no-one is prpeared to go on record proclaiming this just now.

2.) Not sophistry, the truth. every Celtic and Rangers fan I know, see's the derby as a big game, but also know its limited in terms of the football on offer and has been for 5 or 6 years. It's still a Big game, but not in the grand scheme of things which is world football. I have yet to meet ANYONE form either side who goes on about it being the biggest and best club game in the world. Also the fact we meet at leats 4 times a year also helps dilute it a bit. Trust me on this, I know and spend more time with match going Celtic and Rangers fans than you. I'm also on 3 Celtic meesageboards and lurk on FF form time to time. Every Celtic message board says the same as me, as does FF, but not to the same degree.

3.) Sorry, but the TV companies buy scottish football rights becaus ethey get to show Celtic and Rangers games. End of story.

4.) You just went on a rant and never disected my point, which was "The clubs cannot be held responsible for who TV/Radio companies hire as pundits".

5.) Sorry but how do Celtic and Rangers "leech" from other clubs?? how much do other clubs contribute to Celtic's turnover????

6.) Sorry but you have not illustred where Celtic fans have had a problem with Religion. Not at all. Okay, so there have been fights with other clubs fans. Are Celtic alone in this? Eh.....no

7.) Again, you have just went on a rant and not provided any evidence to back your rant up.

8.) Fair enough.

9.) You talk about Glasgow on OF game day, well I go out in Glasgow after these games, and aside from the ICF habitually attacking one or two moderate, soft target Celtic pubs in the Merchant City then I've not seen much bother, granted it might be mental in the schemes, but again, how much is this down purely to religion and how much is down to football rivalry, you know the type of **** that happens at games people on here proclaim to be better derbies than us v the huns - i.e River v Boca, Rome Derby etc etc

While the RST go on about their club's "Protestant Traditions" whatever they are, you never here Celtic do the same. even then, when der hun sings their songs, it more as a GIRUY to what they see is a PC Liberal establishment (rightly or wrongly)

10.) You seem to be annoyed and miffed that we did behave, after others on here like to go about how ****my we are??

sorry but we do NOT have a long history of behaving disgracefully anywhere. We went to thes elocations in huge numbers, that other clubs have taken and NOT managed to avoid causing bother. Seriously - get over it.

JackRegan
12-10-2009, 11:52 AM
They're bricking it. The (premier)ship is pulling out of port and they're still standing on the quayside. They can't even compete with the lower reaches of the premiership now and each passing year just increases the chasmatic gulf in class and financial muscle between them and the top premiership sides. They make all the noises about global fanbases and season ticket waiting lists but the truth is they are miles behind the likes of Aston Villa and Spurs never mind the clubs they actually would have to through in the premiership and then into the Champions League, Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea and Man U. And that's going to happen!

Meanwhile the SPL has been bled dry and they are careering down the financial pole. They find themselves paying over the top wages for second rate dross in order to maintain their position at the top of the SPL and keep alive the pretence that they are big players in European football. They haven't got a pot to piss in but they are talking about breaking the Premiership and launching into the Champions League. :faf:

You clearly do not knwo what you are taking about with regards to Celtic FC.

Unlike Rangers, when they were top dogs, Celtic are not spending huge amounts, purely to win the SPL. We do indeed have a pot to piss in as you put it.

JackRegan
12-10-2009, 12:01 PM
It's just another way to try to make the OF fans believe they are still massive clubs. They have both had poor results in Europe, attendances are falling, other Scottish clubs are better run and may actually be closing the gap. So what do they do, claim that England wants them absolute BS but a lot of their fans will swallow it.

Has no one else picked up on the irony of Jack Regan blaming the poor and under priveleged on the bigotry problem at Celtic. I always thought that they were the champoins of the downtrodden but apparently Jack doesn't like them very much.


WHat I tried to get across was that much of the antics of the cretins in our support are as much a result of socio-econmic conditions in post industrial cities and towns, where our support is drawn.

however, it should not be an excuse for bad behaviour and I have no time for anyone who drags our support's good name through the mud, irrespective of their background.

As it happens you are spot on with your first point.

hibs1875aye
12-10-2009, 12:01 PM
Did Celtic fans no sing "roman in the gloamin with a shamrock in my hand"? And did it not have something about being "proud to be a fking roman catholic" at the end? Yet you lot have no religious songs, just "political" songs?

I would agree the huns are worse than you lot. However, CELTIC have no place to take the moral high ground with them. We and the rest of Scotland can cause were' no biggots like you lot. Or is it just the minority (10's of thousands of a minority) or just all yours and rangers "away" fans causing the problems?

Away and smell the coffee. The only reason you lot arent in England now is because the english dont want or need the bother - celtic and rangers are good for business in some respects and bad for business in others and thats why you will always ultimately be stuck in Scotland. Shame that as we'd all (in the main) love to see the back of the lot of ye :bye:

JackRegan
12-10-2009, 12:04 PM
Did Celtic fans no sing "roman in the gloamin with a shamrock in my hand"? And did it not have something about being "proud to be a fking roman catholic" at the end? Yet you lot have no religious songs, just "political" songs?

I would agree the huns are worse than you lot. However, CELTIC have no place to take the moral high ground with them. We and the rest of Scotland can cause were' no biggots like you lot. Or is it just the minority (10's of thousands of a minority) or just all yours and rangers "away" fans causing the problems?

Away and smell the coffee. The only reason you lot arent in England now is because the english dont want or need the bother - celtic and rangers are good for business in some respects and bad for business in others and thats why you will always ultimately be stuck in Scotland. Shame that as we'd all (in the main) love to see the back of the lot of ye :bye:

Not denying that was sung, but its not been done for donkeys years!!

By the way, while our away support might not sing too many sanitised songs, they don't cause that much bother (if any) to be fair.

richard_pitts
12-10-2009, 12:09 PM
What is so important about having a pot to p*ss in? Always struck me as an odd saying...:wink:

For Celtic and Rangers to get to England, too many turkeys would have to vote for an early christmas. Man United, Liverpool etc. wouldn't want potential rivals for Champions League places and if they go down there and are just another set of mid-table teams, what's the difference other than a couple of English teams won't get promoted? Or Cardiff City for that matter... I personally don't think this will be an issue if one or other starts qualifying for the later stages of the Champions League on a regular basis and Celtic were doing that a while ago and the debate went very quiet.

A mid-table fixture away to Birmingham City or Portsmouth on a Wednesday night in November won't exactly be a "crowd puller" :wink: so i am not sure just how much Celtic and Rangers can add to the lower end teams. Even in the Champions League the novelty is beginning to wear off for a lot of people.

Also, I find amusing the notion that Rangers or Celtic's fan base will guarantee success. Newcastle United have a huge following and haven't exactly blossomed, ditto Spurs and Aston Villa. That's the whole point about England - the league is a lot more competitive.

Oh, and another thing. A Glasgow team which lives off its Irish heritage and its collective dislike of all things British demanding to play in England whose supporters still big up the IRA. Ironic isn't it? :faf: That'll go down well in England :greengrin

hibs1875aye
12-10-2009, 12:12 PM
Not denying that was sung, but its not been done for donkeys years!!

By the way, while our away support might not sing too many sanitised songs, they don't cause that much bother (if any) to be fair.

Ahh, so you DO/DID have "religion" inspired songs. Just checking as Im sure you said somewhere you lot didn't do that - it was just the old up the ra type songs...which incidentally, also have nowt to do with football.

As for not causing "bother" - do you REALLY think singing songs aboot politics and religion won't in itself cause "bother"? Politics and religion have caused more wars and deaths since time began and you really honestly believe this wont cause "much bother"? :confused:

Anyway, as long as I understand the logic :agree::thumbsup:

JackRegan
12-10-2009, 12:13 PM
What is so important about having a pot to p*ss in? Always struck me as an odd saying...:wink:

For Celtic and Rangers to get to England, too many turkeys would have to vote for an early christmas. Man United, Liverpool etc. wouldn't want potential rivals for Champions League places and if they go down there and are just another set of mid-table teams, what's the difference other than a couple of English teams won't get promoted? Or Cardiff City for that matter... I personally don't think this will be an issue if one or other starts qualifying for the later stages of the Champions League on a regular basis and Celtic were doing that a while ago and the debate went very quiet.

A mid-table fixture away to Birmingham City or Portsmouth on a Wednesday night in November won't exactly be a "crowd puller" :wink: so i am not sure just how much Celtic and Rangers can add to the lower end teams. Even in the Champions League the novelty is beginning to wear off for a lot of people.

Also, I find amusing the notion that Rangers or Celtic's fan base will guarantee success. Newcastle United have a huge following and haven't exactly blossomed, ditto Spurs and Aston Villa. That's the whole point about England - the league is a lot more competitive.

Oh, and another thing. A Glasgow team which lives off its Irish heritage and its collective dislike of all things British demanding to play in England whose supporters still big up the IRA. Ironic isn't it? :faf: That'll go down well in England :greengrin

TO be fair we go down to England pretty regularly and there's not much, if any bother. That's the only thing I'd take issue with in your post, although I reckon we'd still shift our allocations at away venues, if not on TV - we have about 40 registered clubs in England.

hibs1875aye
12-10-2009, 12:14 PM
That'll go down well in England :greengrin

Exactly :greengrin :devil:

richard_pitts
12-10-2009, 12:19 PM
TO be fair we go down to England pretty regularly and there's not much, if any bother. That's the only thing I'd take issue with in your post, although I reckon we'd still shift our allocations at away venues, if not on TV - we have about 40 registered clubs in England.

I have no doubt for the first year or so, but the novelty would soon wear off, particularly if the OF didn't win anything. For me it's a non-debate because the Football League (You wouldn't get in the Premiership right away :wink:) wouldn't sanction it, and neither would the EPL.

I would rather look at making the SPL more competitive and more interesting. A sixteen team league with a top eight split (ever get bored playing teams 4 times a season?) and a 50-50 split of the gate money as before (I think the OF make the vast majority of their money from merchandising etc) are two starters from me, plus a non-league pyramid system to move some of the dead wood out the lower leagues.

JackRegan
12-10-2009, 12:20 PM
Ahh, so you DO/DID have "religion" inspired songs. Just checking as Im sure you said somewhere you lot didn't do that - it was just the old up the ra type songs...which incidentally, also have nowt to do with football.

As for not causing "bother" - do you REALLY think singing songs aboot politics and religion won't in itself cause "bother"? Politics and religion have caused more wars and deaths since time began and you really honestly believe this wont cause "much bother"? :confused:

Anyway, as long as I understand the logic :agree::thumbsup:

Apart from the odd minor skirmish here and there, like happens at all other big clubs, what bother has it caused us to date, on our travels??? :confused:

I've missed about 20 Celtic games in 20 years and can only think of seeing trouble, in any shape or form on about 9 or 10 occasions.

Newcastle (friendly) in 2007, Blackburn (UEFA) in 2002, Peterborough (Friendly) in 2006, Anderlecht in 2003, Leeds visiting CP in 2000, Hamburg (home and away) in 1996, Donetsk (away) 2007, Hearts (away) 2004 and 2005.

BravestHibs
12-10-2009, 12:23 PM
WHat I tried to get across was that much of the antics of the cretins in our support are as much a result of socio-econmic conditions in post industrial cities and towns, where our support is drawn.

however, it should not be an excuse for bad behaviour and I have no time for anyone who drags our support's good name through the mud, irrespective of their background.

As it happens you are spot on with your first point.

Hahahahahahahahhahahahhahahah! Bwaaahahahahahahahahahahahahah!

Quality.

JackRegan
12-10-2009, 12:25 PM
I have no doubt for the first year or so, but the novelty would soon wear off, particularly if the OF didn't win anything. For me it's a non-debate because the Football League (You wouldn't get in the Premiership right away :wink:) wouldn't sanction it, and neither would the EPL.

I would rather look at making the SPL more competitive and more interesting. A sixteen team league with a top eight split (ever get bored playing teams 4 times a season?) and a 50-50 split of the gate money as before (I think the OF make the vast majority of their money from merchandising etc) are two starters from me, plus a non-league pyramid system to move some of the dead wood out the lower leagues.

Richard, the fans that want it are the ones who would be the first to get fed up with it.

I am friends with "course and distance" Celtic and Rangers fans, we can see teh whole thing for the charade it is. after much discussion in the boozer we reckon the cure is this...

1.) Nae live league games on TV - for al the money we get.
2.) !6 team team SPL with 2 up and two down.
3.) A pyramid system to let the bets Junior teams in - keeps it fresh.
4.) All to work in tandem with an expanded European competition - maybe, but as I argue, Europe can be expanded if you win yer games!
5.) Clubs declare and keep Season Ticket money, with match day sales/pay at the gate divided.
6.) A cull of the football media. Them constantly telling us how crap our game is, will not help punters back.
7.) Lower admission prices
8.) Terraced areas - poor atmospheres in gorund don't help to get the fans back.

JackRegan
12-10-2009, 12:26 PM
Hahahahahahahahhahahahhahahah! Bwaaahahahahahahahahahahahahah!

Quality.

Sorry, but get over yer petty prejudice. The Celtic support has an excellent reputation abroad and is not known for mindless tuggery or violence.

BravestHibs
12-10-2009, 12:32 PM
Sorry, but get over yer petty prejudice. The Celtic support has an excellent reputation abroad and is not known for mindless tuggery or violence.

Which petty prejudice are you referring to? My dislike for protestants? My hatred of the English/Queen? My unfounded hatred of the SFA/Refs who apparently favour the Huns over my team?

There are so many to choose from, I wish you'd narrow it down for me.

JackRegan
12-10-2009, 12:41 PM
Which petty prejudice are you referring to? My dislike for protestants? My hatred of the English/Queen? My unfounded hatred of the SFA/Refs who apparently favour the Huns over my team?

There are so many to choose from, I wish you'd narrow it down for me.

No - the fact you can't get your head round the fact that Celtic fans are not the violent hooligans you really want them to be.

BTW Celtic fans do not hate Protestants or the English. In fact, the much lauded Tartan Army probably harbour more anti English sentiment than your average Celtic fan.

You know I don't think you actually know any Celtic, or indeed Rangers fans.

Peevemor
12-10-2009, 12:44 PM
No - the fact you can't get your head round the fact that Celtic fans are not the violent hooligans you really want them to be.

BTW Celtic fans do not hate Protestants or the English. In fact, the much lauded Tartan Army probably harbour more anti English sentiment than your average Celtic fan.

You know I don't think you actually know any Celtic, or indeed Rangers fans.

What? None of them? :faf:

You're either incredibly well informed or talking utter pish.

JackRegan
12-10-2009, 12:46 PM
What? None of them? :faf:

You're either incredibly well informed or talking utter pish.

Is this what you are reduced to?

Of course there will be some. For instance - can you say that not one single Hibs fan is a racist? No you can't.

As a general rule, anti Protestantism and anti Englishness is not a problem in our support and neither manifests itself in any way in our support.

Mon Dieu4
12-10-2009, 12:48 PM
Is this what you are reduced to?

Of course there will be some. For instance - can you say that not one single Hibs fan is a racist? No you can't.

As a general rule, anti Protestantism and anti Englishness is not a problem in our support and neither manifests itself in any way in our support.

I look forward to a well respected minutes silence at Parkhead when the Queen pops it then :faf:

Peevemor
12-10-2009, 12:49 PM
Is this what you are reduced to?

You shouldn't make sweeping generalisations then.


Of course there will be some. For instance - can you say that not one single Hibs fan is a racist? No you can't.

Only a total dick would come out with statements like that.


As a general rule, anti Protestantism and anti Englishness is not a problem in our support and neither manifests itself in any way in our support.In your opinion which, as usual, you present as fact.

BravestHibs
12-10-2009, 12:55 PM
No - the fact you can't get your head round the fact that Celtic fans are not the violent hooligans you really want them to be.

BTW Celtic fans do not hate Protestants or the English. In fact, the much lauded Tartan Army probably harbour more anti English sentiment than your average Celtic fan.

You know I don't think you actually know any Celtic, or indeed Rangers fans.

You know, coming from Edinburgh I really shouldn't know anywhere near the amount I do but that's all part of the Green Huns spiderweb marketing plan. Which no matter how much you say it isn't, actually IS based entirely on the simmering cauldron of hatred for the idea of a United Kingdom.

Also, to gloss over what is essentially a core value of the Celtic ethos by saying the Tartan Army harbour more anti English/British sentiment than Celtic has, in my opinion made you look stupid in front of all these people. You can also add being a tearful, whingeing hypocrite to your core values now as well, with yet another attempt to go running to the EPL cap in hand.

FWIW you are starting to sound like all the snivelling Celtic fans I went to school with desperately clinging onto this idea of Irishness as some kind of get out of jail free card for the fact that what they actually were was blatant gloryhunters.

Kato
12-10-2009, 01:02 PM
I look forward to a well respected minutes silence at Parkhead when the Queen pops it then :faf:

That's called a Boston Crab, Jack. Let's see you get out of that one.

JackRegan
12-10-2009, 01:42 PM
You know, coming from Edinburgh I really shouldn't know anywhere near the amount I do but that's all part of the Green Huns spiderweb marketing plan. Which no matter how much you say it isn't, actually IS based entirely on the simmering cauldron of hatred for the idea of a United Kingdom.

Also, to gloss over what is essentially a core value of the Celtic ethos by saying the Tartan Army harbour more anti English/British sentiment than Celtic has, in my opinion made you look stupid in front of all these people. You can also add being a tearful, whingeing hypocrite to your core values now as well, with yet another attempt to go running to the EPL cap in hand.

FWIW you are starting to sound like all the snivelling Celtic fans I went to school with desperately clinging onto this idea of Irishness as some kind of get out of jail free card for the fact that what they actually were was blatant gloryhunters.

Where have I clinged onto irishness in this thread, when in fact I've done the EXACT OPPOSITE.

Also to suggest that being anti English is a "core value" of Celtic is nonsense.

As for Celtic and "The Union", well........hmmmm...its a case of Celtic fans (scottish ones at least) "talking the talk and not walking the walk", when it comes to actually voting.

Let's not go there. :greengrin

JackRegan
12-10-2009, 01:45 PM
That's called a Boston Crab, Jack. Let's see you get out of that one.

No it's not. It will be booed. SO what. I do't imagine much silence in Cardiff, Liverpool to namebut two.

Much to the chagrin of all you royalists in the Hibs support. :wink:

I don't see us being hypocritical about that one.

Personally, i'll do what i did for the one when her old dear croaked - have a bovril in the concourse and read the match programme.

The ideal situation is that its met with a wave of apathy.

Dashing Bob S
12-10-2009, 01:52 PM
Richard, the fans that want it are the ones who would be the first to get fed up with it.

I am friends with "course and distance" Celtic and Rangers fans, we can see teh whole thing for the charade it is. after much discussion in the boozer we reckon the cure is this...

1.) Nae live league games on TV - for al the money we get.
2.) !6 team team SPL with 2 up and two down.
3.) A pyramid system to let the bets Junior teams in - keeps it fresh.
4.) All to work in tandem with an expanded European competition - maybe, but as I argue, Europe can be expanded if you win yer games!
5.) Clubs declare and keep Season Ticket money, with match day sales/pay at the gate divided.
6.) A cull of the football media. Them constantly telling us how crap our game is, will not help punters back.
7.) Lower admission prices
8.) Terraced areas - poor atmospheres in gorund don't help to get the fans back.

Agree with all that. Doubt it fits the OF boardrooms business plan though.

Tomsk
12-10-2009, 02:02 PM
You clearly do not knwo what you are taking about with regards to Celtic FC.

Unlike Rangers, when they were top dogs, Celtic are not spending huge amounts, purely to win the SPL. We do indeed have a pot to piss in as you put it.

Are you satisfied with the quality of player Celtic's purchasing power has managed to secure recently? Do you feel the club is at this moment competitive with the lower reaches of the Premiership? With the upper reaches of the Championship? When Tony Mowbray comes public and declares that your captain and player of the year can't hold the club to ransom and can run down his contract if he wishes before he gets a better offer does that not suggest the club's spending is getting held in check? Isn't all this EPL stuff really just about investors getting a bit squeamish about their returns?

Compared to Hibs, even Rangers, you've got a pot to piss in. But compared to genuine Champions League teams you're rummaging around in the bargain basement. And despite your global pretensions in reality you are still just a big fish in a very wee pool and increasingly third rate European also-rans. And it's just going to get worse.

And, by the way, Jack I think you talk a lot of good, honest sense but you are anything but a typical Celtic supporter.

JackRegan
12-10-2009, 02:31 PM
Are you satisfied with the quality of player Celtic's purchasing power has managed to secure recently? Do you feel the club is at this moment competitive with the lower reaches of the Premiership? With the upper reaches of the Championship? When Tony Mowbray comes public and declares that your captain and player of the year can't hold the club to ransom and can run down his contract if he wishes before he gets a better offer does that not suggest the club's spending is getting held in check? Isn't all this EPL stuff really just about investors getting a bit squeamish about their returns?

Compared to Hibs, even Rangers, you've got a pot to piss in. But compared to genuine Champions League teams you're rummaging around in the bargain basement. And despite your global pretensions in reality you are still just a big fish in a very wee pool and increasingly third rate European also-rans. And it's just going to get worse.

And, by the way, Jack I think you talk a lot of good, honest sense but you are anything but a typical Celtic supporter.


Good points well made. its a double edged sword in that the club have to achieve a balance in keeping healthy books and spending on players.

At present I think we should and could be spending more on players as their current strategy is short sighted and will hurt the club in the longer term. they gambled last Januray on a huns fire sale and done so again in August - I fear history will repeat itself come January.

Some investement would have seen us make a real fist of the Europa League, but it appears Lawwell and Desmond are just happy for us to be there.

What makes it worse is Lawwell spinning yarns and pipe dreams about potential signings (Robbie Keane FFS!! - the others are just too embarrasing to mention!!) and moves to the EPL.

BTW Mowbray and Lawwell are at loggerheads and barely speaking, Peter Grant is doing dressing room/board liaison at the moment. Source is an ex Celtic and ex Hibs player. :wink:

Kato
12-10-2009, 02:59 PM
No it's not. It will be booed. SO what. I do't imagine much silence in Cardiff, Liverpool to namebut two.

Much to the chagrin of all you royalists in the Hibs support. :wink:

I don't see us being hypocritical about that one.

Personally, i'll do what i did for the one when her old dear croaked - have a bovril in the concourse and read the match programme.

The ideal situation is that its met with a wave of apathy.

Yet again you put yourself in the position of speaking for the whole Celtic support.

Can you honestly say that none of those boo-ing would be doing so out of Anti-Protesant or Anti-English feelings?

JackRegan
12-10-2009, 03:17 PM
Yet again you put yourself in the position of speaking for the whole Celtic support.

Can you honestly say that none of those boo-ing would be doing so out of Anti-Protesant or Anti-English feelings?

Well until such times as the whole support, to a man comes on here, then I'll speak for thsoe I know and say no, they would not.

I don't imagine, by going on Celticminded.com, Kerrydale Street forum or thehuddleboard.com you'd get people saying "ah hate the Queen cos she's a proddy". Sorry, but that is just too bizarre for words. Imagine we had to have one for Maggie Thatcher - now she got pleters at the 1988 cup Final - was that because she's not a Catholic???

Anti British Establishment, Anti Monarchist etc then aye fair enough, but I doubt her Anglican faith or the fact she's English would have any bearing on it. That's just those who care, most of us could not or would not give a flying one.

I have to say all this getting indignant over how we'd react to the Queen snuffing it, is a bit pointless and a bit desperate.

BravestHibs
12-10-2009, 03:30 PM
Well until such times as the whole support, to a man comes on here, then I'll speak for thsoe I know and say no, they would not.

I don't imagine, by going on Celticminded.com, Kerrydale Street forum or thehuddleboard.com you'd get people saying "ah hate the Queen cos she's a proddy". Sorry, but that is just too bizarre for words. Imagine we had to have one for Maggie Thatcher - now she got pleters at the 1988 cup Final - was that because she's not a Catholic???

Anti British Establishment, Anti Monarchist etc then aye fair enough, but I doubt her Anglican faith or the fact she's English would have any bearing on it. That's just those who care, most of us could not or would not give a flying one.

I have to say all this getting indignant over how we'd react to the Queen snuffing it, is a bit pointless and a bit desperate.

Too bizarre for words that Celtic fans, or a tiny wee minority of about 5 schemies if you're to be believed, have an irrational hatred for the queen and whatever it is she stands for?????

You are talking ****. Plain and simple.

CapitalHibs
12-10-2009, 03:42 PM
Just an observation, but what I find strange is that Jack is on here fighting a lone battle in defending his celtc POV. Apparently, none of the alleged 350,000 fans who travelled to Seville are prepared to come on here and lend support to his opinions.

I would like to think that if Hibs were getting ripped apart in a similar manner on another Clubs Fan Forum, we as supporters would be presenting a more unified front in response.

LancsHibs
12-10-2009, 04:06 PM
Sorry, but get over yer petty prejudice. The Celtic support has an excellent reputation abroad and is not known for mindless tuggery or violence.

The 'celtic support' just save the violence, anti-social behaviour and sectarianism for Scotland then?:wink:

PS I should hope they are not known for their "mindless tugging" abroad:greengrin

Joe Baker II
12-10-2009, 04:13 PM
Did Celtic fans no sing "roman in the gloamin with a shamrock in my hand"? And did it not have something about being "proud to be a fking roman catholic" at the end? Yet you lot have no religious songs, just "political" songs?



Cannot be bothered reading the rubbish that Hibs fans have been posting on this - as someone said though wonder how much time they actually spend in Glasgow and many come over as so pathetic that they were devastasted that Celtic fans behaved in Seville and got a supporters award.

Would also point out that only set of supporters I have actually heard singing the Roaming in the Gloaming Song were Hibs fans (in response to Hearts equalising goal at Easter Road in 1990!) Look forward to someone claiming they were actually Celtic fans who were in the East Terrace that day!

Kato
12-10-2009, 04:14 PM
Cannot be bothered reading the rubbish that Hibs fans have been posting on this

If your not reading it how can you tell it's rubbish?

One Day Soon
12-10-2009, 08:02 PM
Boy do you like your hooped shades. But see below.




1.) As stated in response to Jonnyboy. Dermot Desmond has been on record saying ther is growing support in England, but no-one is prpeared to go on record proclaiming this just now.

No, you said that those who wanted Celtc were "English club chairmen and chairmen of big clubs in small countries". I asked you to name three and you quoted Desmond who is, err, the owner of Celtc.

You didn't even address the point about the irony of the Plastic Paddies desperate to cosy up to an English league.

2.) Not sophistry, the truth. every Celtic and Rangers fan I know, see's the derby as a big game, but also know its limited in terms of the football on offer and has been for 5 or 6 years. It's still a Big game, but not in the grand scheme of things which is world football. I have yet to meet ANYONE form either side who goes on about it being the biggest and best club game in the world. Also the fact we meet at leats 4 times a year also helps dilute it a bit. Trust me on this, I know and spend more time with match going Celtic and Rangers fans than you. I'm also on 3 Celtic meesageboards and lurk on FF form time to time. Every Celtic message board says the same as me, as does FF, but not to the same degree.

Clearly everyone on this board is meeting a completely different group of Celtc and Rangers cousins - you know, the ones who think that its the biggest derby in the world and that, for example, Celtc is on a par with Man U what with all the supposed historical parallels. Of course you didn't even acknowledge the truth that it does have one top of the scale feature, a boiling atmosphere founded in sectarian hatred.

3.) Sorry, but the TV companies buy scottish football rights becaus ethey get to show Celtic and Rangers games. End of story.

No I'm sorry you are bigger because you are two sides of the same bigoted coin. But that, for you, is an inconvenient truth.

4.) You just went on a rant and never disected my point, which was "The clubs cannot be held responsible for who TV/Radio companies hire as pundits".

No, I made a reasoned argument that your typical OF viewpoint about there being more pressure playing for the Ugly Twins is just wrong. You chose to ignore it. But then if your viewpoint is taken from somewhere up your own jacksie - as it seems to be with most of you and your blue and orange sister club - then I wouldn't expect much else.

5.) Sorry but how do Celtic and Rangers "leech" from other clubs?? how much do other clubs contribute to Celtic's turnover????

Well let's see: a disproportionate share of the TV money, the change away from sharing the gate money, the ticket fees scam, using the Scottish Premier League as a trading market whilst actively talking it down and seeking to move elsewhere, a systemic policy of weakening other clubs by buying up the players that make those teams tick only to stick them in the reserves, decades of using the other clubs in the league to develop younger players rather than doing it yourselves, unsettling players at other clubs in order to be able to buy them at sums lower than their worth. Just look at any parasite really and it will give you the idea.

6.) Sorry but you have not illustred where Celtic fans have had a problem with Religion. Not at all. Okay, so there have been fights with other clubs fans. Are Celtic alone in this? Eh.....no

You just don't answer anything you don't like do you? I put it to you again - where do you get off thinking that you deserve more effort from higher paid players? What totally effed up notion makes you think that how much a player is paid determines the level of effort it is fair to expect from them? You clearly don't think Celtc fans have had a problem with religion - I think you need to check your meds. Why do you feel vindicated in the context that Rangers are, in your view, more bigoted than you are? Its like saying you are a decent guy because you beat your wife less than your neighbour does.

7.) Again, you have just went on a rant and not provided any evidence to back your rant up.

I think your arguments became so weak at this point that you seem to have developed misaligned posting.

8.) Fair enough.

9.) You talk about Glasgow on OF game day, well I go out in Glasgow after these games, and aside from the ICF habitually attacking one or two moderate, soft target Celtic pubs in the Merchant City then I've not seen much bother, granted it might be mental in the schemes, but again, how much is this down purely to religion and how much is down to football rivalry, you know the type of **** that happens at games people on here proclaim to be better derbies than us v the huns - i.e River v Boca, Rome Derby etc etc

While the RST go on about their club's "Protestant Traditions" whatever they are, you never here Celtic do the same. even then, when der hun sings their songs, it more as a GIRUY to what they see is a PC Liberal establishment (rightly or wrongly)

"proclaim to be better derbies than us v the huns"? Oh dear, letting your mask slip a little there I think.

OF derby....violent assaults.....stabbings......etc. You are a pair of loathesomely twinned ugly sisters, joined at the hip by your sectarian natures. Your clubs may not be dumb enough to openly proclaim it but they have happily profiteered on the back of that scar on Scottish society since they were founded. Why is it do you think that we don't have the same vileness around Hibs/Hearts derbies?

10.) You seem to be annoyed and miffed that we did behave, after others on here like to go about how ****my we are??

sorry but we do NOT have a long history of behaving disgracefully anywhere. We went to thes elocations in huge numbers, that other clubs have taken and NOT managed to avoid causing bother. Seriously - get over it.

Really? I must have just imagined that 1980 cup final when you were rioting on the pitch amid the police horse charges. Maybe some bad Rangers fans invaded the Celtc end dressed up in hoopy jerseys and bad perms so that they could con the world in to believing that you too have a history of violent bigotry. I just can't understand how Obama got that Nobel peace prize rather than you guys. Have you considered doing some mediation in the Middle East?

I am neither annoyed nor miffed. I think it is a little sad that you are so delighted your fans were able to behave. Its like a small child being over the moon that it managed not to crap in its own pants one day.





Having re-read all of your joke of a reply I have come to the conclusion that the open bigotry of your blue sisters is actually profoundly less nauseating than the complacent, smug, deluded and completely dishonest set of claims you make. You simply ignore anything you cannot answer (which is almost everything), you make assertions in lieu of facts and when bigotry is the issue you conveniently regard it as institutionalised at the Blue Bigots but just some rogue elements at the Green Bigots. Talk about none so blind as those that will not see.

Please don't take it personally, I'm sure you are a decent guy, but your opinions on this are just rank. It is institutionalised myopia, the equivalent of the view that the Sun revolves around the Earth.

JackRegan
12-10-2009, 09:14 PM
Boy do you like your hooped shades. But see below.







Having re-read all of your joke of a reply I have come to the conclusion that the open bigotry of your blue sisters is actually profoundly less nauseating than the complacent, smug, deluded and completely dishonest set of claims you make. You simply ignore anything you cannot answer (which is almost everything), you make assertions in lieu of facts and when bigotry is the issue you conveniently regard it as institutionalised at the Blue Bigots but just some rogue elements at the Green Bigots. Talk about none so blind as those that will not see.

Please don't take it personally, I'm sure you are a decent guy, but your opinions on this are just rank. It is institutionalised myopia, the equivalent of the view that the Sun revolves around the Earth.

Reading your post, its you who comes across as being bitter. Not me.

Also you have clearly never spent any time in Glasgow.

Keith_M
12-10-2009, 10:16 PM
Am I the only person that has noticed that Jack Regan and BlueIsTheColour never seem to be logged in at the same time....


:hmmm:


Anyway, to the 'lived in Glasgow' question...

Yes, I have, and some of the attitudes on here with sweeping generalisations about Glasgow and Glaswegians are, frankly, embarassing. Do the people writing this stuff realise that there are also, admittedly in small number, Hibs fans who live their as well? So it's hardly outwith the realms of possibility that not all glaswegians are ingnorant, bigoted neds, including, would you believe, the occasional OF fan.

The generalisations are about as bewildering as some of the stuff that Mr Regan comes out with in response to the comments on here. If your support are not as bad as everyone makes out, why does nobody else in Scotland like you? I expect it's all jealousy or part of the anti Irish-RC-Sellik conspiracy.

Ringothedog
12-10-2009, 10:17 PM
Cannot be bothered reading the rubbish that Hibs fans have been posting on this - as someone said though wonder how much time they actually spend in Glasgow and many come over as so pathetic that they were devastasted that Celtic fans behaved in Seville and got a supporters award.

Would also point out that only set of supporters I have actually heard singing the Roaming in the Gloaming Song were Hibs fans (in response to Hearts equalising goal at Easter Road in 1990!) Look forward to someone claiming they were actually Celtic fans who were in the East Terrace that day!

Cannot be bothered reading the rubbish that Hibs fans have been posting on this-So how do you know it is rubbish?

as someone said though wonder how much time they actually spend in Glasgow- worked there for 6 months and my ex wife came from paisley so I know how they think:wink:

Would also point out that only set of supporters I have actually heard singing the Roaming in the Gloaming Song were Hibs fans (in response to Hearts equalising goal at Easter Road in 1990!) Look forward to someone claiming they were actually Celtic fans who were in the East Terrace that day!- Nope they would be Hibs fans, I really cannot believe you are bringing up one song from 19 years ago:asshole: I am glad you were not at ER in the 60's and 70's you would probably have had a fit(not a bad thing imo). I have never known a poster to be so negative about their own supporters(unless you have just not been "outed" yet.

The Green Goblin
12-10-2009, 10:58 PM
when the huns beat us on Sunday, the whole stadium, belted out Derry's Walls among others. I have not heard Celtic Park, to a man stand up and belt out Boys of the Old Brigade since the ground went all seated in 1995.


Jack, are you really trying to argue that Celtic fans en masse, home or away, do not sing any sectarian songs? Are you honestly saying that?


GG

JackRegan
13-10-2009, 06:22 AM
Jack, are you really trying to argue that Celtic fans en masse, home or away, do not sing any sectarian songs? Are you honestly saying that?


GG

Not at home we don't, Isolated wee groups do, but not to the same degree as at Ibrox.

JackRegan
13-10-2009, 06:25 AM
Am I the only person that has noticed that Jack Regan and BlueIsTheColour never seem to be logged in at the same time....


:hmmm:


Anyway, to the 'lived in Glasgow' question...

Yes, I have, and some of the attitudes on here with sweeping generalisations about Glasgow and Glaswegians are, frankly, embarassing. Do the people writing this stuff realise that there are also, admittedly in small number, Hibs fans who live their as well? So it's hardly outwith the realms of possibility that not all glaswegians are ingnorant, bigoted neds, including, would you believe, the occasional OF fan.

The generalisations are about as bewildering as some of the stuff that Mr Regan comes out with in response to the comments on here. If your support are not as bad as everyone makes out, why does nobody else in Scotland like you? I expect it's all jealousy or part of the anti Irish-RC-Sellik conspiracy.

Because we over the course we normally beat their teams and lord it.

Most teams fans think, about the other stuff and think "that's huns/tims - that's their thing - phannies" and generally think themselves above it all. Quite rightly when you see who belt the tunes out.

Barney McGrew
13-10-2009, 06:42 AM
Not at home we don't, Isolated wee groups do, but not to the same degree as at Ibrox.

And that, in a nutshell, seems to be the crux of many of your posts on here.

"We do it, but Rangers are much worse"

You're two sides of the same coin Jack, no matter how you try to dress it up. You rely on each other to survive. The Celtic and Rangers 'brands' are as much about dislike of the other side, rather than like of your own.

JackRegan
13-10-2009, 08:27 AM
And that, in a nutshell, seems to be the crux of many of your posts on here.

"We do it, but Rangers are much worse"

You're two sides of the same coin Jack, no matter how you try to dress it up. You rely on each other to survive. The Celtic and Rangers 'brands' are as much about dislike of the other side, rather than like of your own.

Yes - that is and always has been my point, although latterly my main gripe on here is the tar brushing of not just Celtic fans but dare I say it Rangers fans and the City of Glasgow and how we get on within it.

the other thing I rty to point out is that fierce football rivalry is not comfined to Glasgow - there's plenty of Derby games with as much and indeed more violence than Celtic v Rangers with these very derbies being the ones, some on here will claim to be bigger, better and more important than us v the Huns. :agree:

As for your last point, its partly true, but more so for Rangers. Their "identity" and "traditions" came purely as a result of Celtic's success - we even get a mention in their offical club song. :greengrin :greengrin

Now before anyone accuses me of "running away" (as someone did the other day) I'm in a two day "workshop" as of 10am this morning.

It's been fun. :bye:

Joe Baker II
13-10-2009, 08:40 AM
Cannot be bothered reading the rubbish that Hibs fans have been posting on this-So how do you know it is rubbish?

as someone said though wonder how much time they actually spend in Glasgow- worked there for 6 months and my ex wife came from paisley so I know how they think:wink:

Would also point out that only set of supporters I have actually heard singing the Roaming in the Gloaming Song were Hibs fans (in response to Hearts equalising goal at Easter Road in 1990!) Look forward to someone claiming they were actually Celtic fans who were in the East Terrace that day!- Nope they would be Hibs fans, I really cannot believe you are bringing up one song from 19 years ago:asshole: I am glad you were not at ER in the 60's and 70's you would probably have had a fit(not a bad thing imo). I have never known a poster to be so negative about their own supporters(unless you have just not been "outed" yet.

I heard all the songs in the late 1970s (although by then the clampdown from Hart had started which gradually turned many of Irish desecne tin the East Coast off supporting Hibs) you refer too btw although response was specifically to reference to the Roaming song. And I stress that I have no problem with Irish Republican songs being sung at Scottish football matches by whatever set of fans.

Sadly the minority of Hibs fans that embarasses thmeselves with mindless generalisations about OF fans and people from the West Coast generally deserve the negativity. I stress I am negative about Hibs fans generally, only the minority who post the rubbish in threads like this.

Barney McGrew
13-10-2009, 08:44 AM
Yes - that is and always has been my point, although latterly my main gripe on here is the tar brushing of not just Celtic fans but dare I say it Rangers fans and the City of Glasgow and how we get on within it.

You fly with the crows, you get shot with the crows. If it is so much of a minority in your support, then it shouldn't be too much of an issue for the majority to stand up to them and weed them out, no? IIRC you bring your own stewards to away games, so if Celtic as a club really wanted to get rid of those people and stop their bile then they could do it. The reason they won't is because if they stamped it out, they'd remove a massive chunk of their income stream from those who still buy into being 'Celtic minded' and the crap that comes along with it. They don't want to kill off the cash cow that is the sectarian/political/nationalist (delete as applicable to how you want it described) nature of your support.


the other thing I rty to point out is that fierce football rivalry is not comfined to Glasgow - there's plenty of Derby games with as much and indeed more violence than Celtic v Rangers with these very derbies being the ones, some on here will claim to be bigger, better and more important than us v the Huns. :agree:.

You're spot on with that - but it's a football rivalry. It's got bugger all to do with a battle in a foreign country three hundred years ago or nationlist politics in a different country like the OF game is. That's what the 'wonderful atmosphere' of an OF derby is all about. You could have the seats facing away from the pitch and it wouldn't make much of a difference.

As for your second point, name me another derby in the UK where there is as much violence as there is following an OF game?


As for your last point, its partly true, but more so for Rangers. Their "identity" and "traditions" came purely as a result of Celtic's success - we even get a mention in their offical club song. :greengrin :greengrin.

And there it is again. It's all really Rangers fault isn't it? It's like saying the Celtic man kicked the guy twice, but the big bad Rangers man kicked him three times so isn't the Celtic man such a good guy?

Celtic need to get their own house in order before they are in a position to take the moral highground over Rangers like you're trying to.

Your whole club stinks from the top where your chairman bleats about the SPL, to the bottom where your fans chant their nonsense. Until that's changed, then you're just as bad as your brothers across the city. And to be fair to Rangers, at least they admit they have a problem - Celtic and their fans still keep trying to sweep it under the carpet.

Joe Baker II
13-10-2009, 08:45 AM
Boy do you like your hooped shades. But see below.







Having re-read all of your joke of a reply I have come to the conclusion that the open bigotry of your blue sisters is actually profoundly less nauseating than the complacent, smug, deluded and completely dishonest set of claims you make. You simply ignore anything you cannot answer (which is almost everything), you make assertions in lieu of facts and when bigotry is the issue you conveniently regard it as institutionalised at the Blue Bigots but just some rogue elements at the Green Bigots. Talk about none so blind as those that will not see.

Please don't take it personally, I'm sure you are a decent guy, but your opinions on this are just rank. It is institutionalised myopia, the equivalent of the view that the Sun revolves around the Earth.

Dear oh dear even by the standards of hibs.net at its worst you seem exceptionally bitter !

JackRegan
13-10-2009, 09:03 AM
You fly with the crows, you get shot with the crows. If it is so much of a minority in your support, then it shouldn't be too much of an issue for the majority to stand up to them and weed them out, no? IIRC you bring your own stewards to away games, so if Celtic as a club really wanted to get rid of those people and stop their bile then they could do it. The reason they won't is because if they stamped it out, they'd remove a massive chunk of their income stream from those who still buy into being 'Celtic minded' and the crap that comes along with it. They don't want to kill off the cash cow that is the sectarian/political/nationalist (delete as applicable to how you want it described) nature of your support.



You're spot on with that - but it's a football rivalry. It's got bugger all to do with a battle in a foreign country three hundred years ago or nationlist politics in a different country like the OF game is. That's what the 'wonderful atmosphere' of an OF derby is all about. You could have the seats facing away from the pitch and it wouldn't make much of a difference.

As for your second point, name me another derby in the UK where there is as much violence as there is following an OF game?



And there it is again. It's all really Rangers fault isn't it? It's like saying the Celtic man kicked the guy twice, but the big bad Rangers man kicked him three times so isn't the Celtic man such a good guy?

Celtic need to get their own house in order before they are in a position to take the moral highground over Rangers like you're trying to.

Your whole club stinks from the top where your chairman bleats about the SPL, to the bottom where your fans chant their nonsense. Until that's changed, then you're just as bad as your brothers across the city. And to be fair to Rangers, at least they admit they have a problem - Celtic and their fans still keep trying to sweep it under the carpet.

My point is that, even without the baggage, who is to say there would be no trouble.

Also as for other derbies, why just limit it to Britain? But anyway, having been at a City v Villa derby and witnessed teh carnage after that, plus the scenes from West Ham v Millwall just the other week, then I'd say there was more violence there than at your average Glasgow Derby.

Also I read on here that "at least Rangers admit their problem" - eh??? just where and when have they done this?? They even refused to condemn the Famine Song and even got one of their hacks on the payroll, Jim Traynor, to defend it in print!!

Barney McGrew
13-10-2009, 09:14 AM
Also I read on here that "at least Rangers admit their problem" - eh??? just where and when have they done this?? They even refused to condemn the Famine Song and even got one of their hacks on the payroll, Jim Traynor, to defend it in print!!

Here's a couple of examples to kick off:

Head of Security Kenny Scott (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/scotland/article2501036.ece)

Joint statement from Rangers and Supporters Clubs (http://www.heraldscotland.com/rangers-officials-and-fans-condemn-policing-1.854661)

As for the Traynor comment, that's just another example of Celtic paranoia. Unless you can show me where there's anything that shows that Rangers pay him money?

Yet again though Jack, you cherry pick the points you want to answer and miss out the others, so I'll reiterate it again - if Celtic really wanted to get rid of the songs and the background they could do it, but they don't and won't because it would wipe out large sections of their support and the vast sums of money they bring in.

blackpoolhibs
13-10-2009, 10:00 AM
I heard all the songs in the late 1970s (although by then the clampdown from Hart had started which gradually turned many of Irish desecne tin the East Coast off supporting Hibs) you refer too btw although response was specifically to reference to the Roaming song. And I stress that I have no problem with Irish Republican songs being sung at Scottish football matches by whatever set of fans.

Sadly the minority of Hibs fans that embarasses thmeselves with mindless generalisations about OF fans and people from the West Coast generally deserve the negativity. I stress I am negative about Hibs fans generally, only the minority who post the rubbish in threads like this.

:confused: In the late 70s, our crowds were poor apart from the hearts games and the old firm ones. How many would you guess left because of this? My guess, and its only a guess is not many, in fact i dont know of one person who did not go back to watch hibs, because our oirishness was being diluted.

hibs1875aye
13-10-2009, 12:09 PM
Cannot be bothered reading the rubbish that Hibs fans have been posting on this - as someone said though wonder how much time they actually spend in Glasgow and many come over as so pathetic that they were devastasted that Celtic fans behaved in Seville and got a supporters award.

If you "cannot be bothered" why are you bothering? As for your crap reply, if you had READ what I wrote about "roamin the gloamin" (and the song being RELIGIOUS) it was a direct reply to Jack's comment that celtic dont sing "religious" songs - only songs about politics (which are relevant at football apparently :confused:)


Would also point out that only set of supporters I have actually heard singing the Roaming in the Gloaming Song were Hibs fans (in response to Hearts equalising goal at Easter Road in 1990!) Look forward to someone claiming they were actually Celtic fans who were in the East Terrace that day!

Funny I heard Celtic sing it plenty as did Jack (as he admitted - he is a CELTIC fan) yet you didnt hear it?


I heard all the songs in the late 1970s (although by then the clampdown from Hart had started which gradually turned many of Irish desecne tin the East Coast off supporting Hibs) you refer too btw although response was specifically to reference to the Roaming song. And I stress that I have no problem with Irish Republican songs being sung at Scottish football matches by whatever set of fans.

Really? You have no problem with the little ditties about the Irish Republician politics? Thats got WHAT to do with the fitba? And you have the gaul to slag my post and others like me as an "embarassment"?


Sadly the minority of Hibs fans that embarasses thmeselves with mindless generalisations about OF fans and people from the West Coast generally deserve the negativity. I stress I am negative about Hibs fans generally, only the minority who post the rubbish in threads like this.

For all you know mate, I am from the west coast? Maybe you should stop apologising for things that frankly CANNOT be apologised for! Singing songs about republicans has **** all to do with football and causes bother.

For a Hibs fan, you do a lot of slagging other Hibs fans and also do a lot of defending celtic and rangers :confused:

Why? :bye:

Kato
13-10-2009, 12:59 PM
(although by then the clampdown from Hart had started which gradually turned many of Irish desecne tin the East Coast off supporting Hibs)

Could you supply some detail on this, in what way did Hart (clampdown) - and how many stopped supporting directly because of this?

Peevemor
13-10-2009, 01:01 PM
Could you supply some detail on this, in what way did Hart (clampdown) - and how many stopped supporting directly because of this?

I think it was when he introduced first a purple, then a yellow change strip. :whistle:

Keith_M
13-10-2009, 01:05 PM
Could you supply some detail on this, in what way did Hart (clampdown)

I vaguely remember this happening. At one time, tricolours were banned from ER after a game at Stirling where the Hibs support seemed to have an awful lot of them. There may also have been something in the programme about republican songs, though my memory is even vaguer on that one.



- and how many stopped supporting directly because of this?

I'd like a bit more details on that as well. Could you (JBII) give a bit more evidence/facts because it all sounds a bit like something you made up just to support your point.

Peevemor
13-10-2009, 01:07 PM
I'd like a bit more details on that as well. Could you (JBII) give a bit more evidence/facts because it all sounds a bit like something you made up just to support your point.

Or he's getting Tom Hart and Harry Swan mixed up.

blackpoolhibs
13-10-2009, 01:09 PM
I vaguely remember this happening. At one time, tricolours were banned from ER after a game at Stirling where the Hibs support seemed to have an awful lot of them. There may also have been something in the programme about republican songs, though my memory is even vaguer on that one.



I'd like a bit more details on that as well. Could you (JBII) give a bit more evidence/facts because it all sounds a bit like something you made up just to support your point.

It is all made up, i dont know one hibs fan who does not go to easter road because we dont sing irish folk songs anymore.:faf: No doubt there could be the odd one or two, but to make out we are suffering because of this, is complete bollox.

BravestHibs
13-10-2009, 01:37 PM
Cannot be bothered reading the rubbish that Hibs fans have been posting on this - as someone said though wonder how much time they actually spend in Glasgow and many come over as so pathetic that they were devastasted that Celtic fans behaved in Seville and got a supporters award.

Would also point out that only set of supporters I have actually heard singing the Roaming in the Gloaming Song were Hibs fans (in response to Hearts equalising goal at Easter Road in 1990!) Look forward to someone claiming they were actually Celtic fans who were in the East Terrace that day!

It's almost as though you want to disassociate yourself from Hibs and align yourself with Celtic in that first line. What's wrong with you?


The only set of supporters you've heard singing the roaming song are Hibs fans?? I can only assume that you must sit right next to JackRegan, comparing season tickets, far, far away from the 2 or 3 poor people that give Celtic this completely unfounded reputation as bigots.

*sucks teeth in disdain*

One Day Soon
13-10-2009, 07:22 PM
I don't know who is the bigger fool - you for the plainly daft claims you make in the face of all the hard facts or me for bothering to try and have a sustained debate with you. You do realise that you have just ignored virtually every point I have raised rather than engaging with them and defending your views?

But you have done a splendid job of reinforcing for virtually everyone on this message board what we are up against by way of paranoia, self interest and denial of reality in your two teams. So please do crack on.

And what, by the way, has Glasgow got to do with it? This is an Ugly Sisters issues not a Glasgow issue. You may care to reflect that a) there are more teams than just yours in Glasgow, b) there are a hell of a lot of people in Glasgow deeply uninterested in football and c) this vile bigotry manifests itself right across Scotland and beyond - not just in Glasgow - which is why you are able to assemble such large supports. The fact that the post-match violence manifests itself largely in Glasgow isn't something that should allow you to sully the name of the second city of the empire.




Reading your post, its you who comes across as being bitter. Not me.

Also you have clearly never spent any time in Glasgow.

One Day Soon
13-10-2009, 07:36 PM
Really? About which bit? I'm not in the slightest part bitter - I support the team I love and care little about any others. My loyalties are completely undivided.

However I'm not going to stand idly by while a non-Hibs fan comes on here and starts making plainly daft assertions in a range of ways and give the impression that their view is either right or reasonable by simply saying nothing to challenge them. I think it is an incontrovertible fact that the OF have been - and continue to be - bad for Scottish Football and they both come very late in the day and rather half heartedly to the cause of anti-bigotry.

This is about football, not about Celtc supporters' extremely dubious Holier-than-thou-ball.



Dear oh dear even by the standards of hibs.net at its worst you seem exceptionally bitter !

One Day Soon
13-10-2009, 07:41 PM
Traynor, you may recall, was effectively banned from Ibrox for a lengthy period for speaking critically on a variety of matters there. Now I'm no propaganda genius but it would seem a bit strange for them to ban from the club someone who was according to you supposedly 'on their payroll'.

Do you genuinely believe that your other half keep journalists on their payroll?



My point is that, even without the baggage, who is to say there would be no trouble.

Also as for other derbies, why just limit it to Britain? But anyway, having been at a City v Villa derby and witnessed teh carnage after that, plus the scenes from West Ham v Millwall just the other week, then I'd say there was more violence there than at your average Glasgow Derby.

Also I read on here that "at least Rangers admit their problem" - eh??? just where and when have they done this?? They even refused to condemn the Famine Song and even got one of their hacks on the payroll, Jim Traynor, to defend it in print!!

Kato
13-10-2009, 07:48 PM
Or he's getting Tom Hart and Harry Swan mixed up.

In what way?

Tomsk
13-10-2009, 08:36 PM
Could you supply some detail on this, in what way did Hart (clampdown) - and how many stopped supporting directly because of this?

I have never read a post by Joe Baker II that has been anything but utter drivel -- and more often than not barely coherent drivel. But he has actually excelled himself on this thread with a series of statements that take the breath away -- inaccurate, illogical, and bare-faced lies. There are jakies lying in their own pish who would pull up before spouting his dross.

Kato
13-10-2009, 09:38 PM
I have never read a post by Joe Baker II that has been anything but utter drivel -- and more often than not barely coherent drivel. But he has actually excelled himself on this thread with a series of statements that take the breath away -- inaccurate, illogical, and bare-faced lies. There are jakies lying in their own pish who would pull up before spouting his dross.


Cheers. I'll watch for his reply.

You have to be careful what you say when talking about hibs or tom hart banning flags or songs. Before you know it these vague recollections turn into "fact" and "facts" that are jumped on by Celtic fans. These "facts" then come back at us twisted out of all recognition and Tom Hart is suddenly The Grand Wizard in the League Against All Catholicism and attempted to change Hibs name to Edinburgh Rangers or some other crap they like to make-up.

Here's what happened.

Tom Hart invited guys (including my older brother) from the terracing who sang these songs the most into the Hibs board-room after a game and requested they stop singing songs that mentioned the IRA. Nothing was ever banned as such - he asked for this. Those guys did stop and tried to stop others and the fact that the songs only stopped being sung in the mid to late 80's shows the difficulty in handling these things but also that it can be done. Those songs were, and still are, sung in boozers but not games. I don't see anything wrong with a tri-colour or two Hibs games - have never taken one myself.


I was told at that time that Hart thought singing IRA chants/songs showed the club in a bad light and speaking as someone who has Irish family from the South I can fully understand that and respect it. To my mind Hibs fans matured over that period regarding this subject.

Speaking personally I'm proud of Hibs heritage but don't feel the need to ram it down people's throats every time Hibs play I certainly think the really narrow representation of Irishness that singing IRA songs displays isn't supporting Hibs. Its a one-dimensional, freakish parody of Irishness - especially when its the only representation that's given out. I

Saying that if Celtic fans feel like singing them or the other side of that coin want to sing about their "tradtions" its ok by me and I would never think of asking them to be banned. They can act out their freakish parody all they want as far as I'm concerned.

Peevemor
13-10-2009, 09:52 PM
In what way?

It concerns the original club crest (harp) which was painted on a wall beside the main entrance to the old stand. I've read a couple of conflicting reports - one saying that Swan, who wanted to distance the club from the Irish stuff, had the wall demolished as part of some non-existant structural repairs. The other version says that he simply had the harp painted over.

Horse
13-10-2009, 10:53 PM
What is so important about having a pot to p*ss in? Always struck me as an odd saying...:wink:

For Celtic and Rangers to get to England, too many turkeys would have to vote for an early christmas. Man United, Liverpool etc. wouldn't want potential rivals for Champions League places and if they go down there and are just another set of mid-table teams, what's the difference other than a couple of English teams won't get promoted? Or Cardiff City for that matter... I personally don't think this will be an issue if one or other starts qualifying for the later stages of the Champions League on a regular basis and Celtic were doing that a while ago and the debate went very quiet.

A mid-table fixture away to Birmingham City or Portsmouth on a Wednesday night in November won't exactly be a "crowd puller" :wink: so i am not sure just how much Celtic and Rangers can add to the lower end teams. Even in the Champions League the novelty is beginning to wear off for a lot of people.

Also, I find amusing the notion that Rangers or Celtic's fan base will guarantee success. Newcastle United have a huge following and haven't exactly blossomed, ditto Spurs and Aston Villa. That's the whole point about England - the league is a lot more competitive.

Oh, and another thing. A Glasgow team which lives off its Irish heritage and its collective dislike of all things British demanding to play in England whose supporters still big up the IRA. Ironic isn't it? :faf: That'll go down well in England :greengrin

Here is the true origin of this phrase (allegedly):

"They used to use urine to tan animal skins, so families used to all
pee in a pot & then once a day it was taken & sold to the tannery.. If
you had to do this to survive you were "Piss Poor".. But worse than
that were the really poor folk who couldn’t even afford to buy a pot
they "didn’t have a pot to piss in" & were the lowest of the low."

Horse
13-10-2009, 10:56 PM
Richard, the fans that want it are the ones who would be the first to get fed up with it.

I am friends with "course and distance" Celtic and Rangers fans, we can see teh whole thing for the charade it is. after much discussion in the boozer we reckon the cure is this...

1.) Nae live league games on TV - for al the money we get.
2.) !6 team team SPL with 2 up and two down.
3.) A pyramid system to let the bets Junior teams in - keeps it fresh.
4.) All to work in tandem with an expanded European competition - maybe, but as I argue, Europe can be expanded if you win yer games!
5.) Clubs declare and keep Season Ticket money, with match day sales/pay at the gate divided.
6.) A cull of the football media. Them constantly telling us how crap our game is, will not help punters back.
7.) Lower admission prices
8.) Terraced areas - poor atmospheres in gorund don't help to get the fans back.\

I have to agree with those points!

Kato
13-10-2009, 11:13 PM
It concerns the original club crest (harp) which was painted on a wall beside the main entrance to the old stand. I've read a couple of conflicting reports - one saying that Swan, who wanted to distance the club from the Irish stuff, had the wall demolished as part of some non-existant structural repairs. The other version says that he simply had the harp painted over.

So you've heard conflicting reports but string this out to thinking someone might be getting Tom Hart's perceived Anti-Irishness mixed up Harry's Swan's?



I think you'll find the building work was reall and that Swan comissioned a new Harp mosiac which was erected inside the old stand.

greenginger
14-10-2009, 07:51 AM
[QUOTE=Kato;2205179]Cheers. I'll watch for his reply.

You have to be careful what you say when talking about hibs or tom hart banning flags or songs. Before you know it these vague recollections turn into "fact" and "facts" that are jumped on by Celtic fans. These "facts" then come back at us twisted out of all recognition and Tom Hart is suddenly The Grand Wizard in the League Against All Catholicism and attempted to change Hibs name to Edinburgh Rangers or some other crap.


I don't think any accusation that Tom Hart was anti- Catholic stands up to much scrutiny.

He was baptised in ST. Martins R. C. church in Tranent in 1922.

blackpoolhibs
14-10-2009, 08:48 AM
[QUOTE=Kato;2205179]Cheers. I'll watch for his reply.

You have to be careful what you say when talking about hibs or tom hart banning flags or songs. Before you know it these vague recollections turn into "fact" and "facts" that are jumped on by Celtic fans. These "facts" then come back at us twisted out of all recognition and Tom Hart is suddenly The Grand Wizard in the League Against All Catholicism and attempted to change Hibs name to Edinburgh Rangers or some other crap.


I don't think any accusation that Tom Hart was anti- Catholic stands up to much scrutiny.

He was baptised in ST. Martins R. C. church in Tranent in 1922.

I wouldn't hold your breath.

blackpoolhibs
14-10-2009, 06:59 PM
[QUOTE=Kato;2205179]Cheers. I'll watch for his reply.

You have to be careful what you say when talking about hibs or tom hart banning flags or songs. Before you know it these vague recollections turn into "fact" and "facts" that are jumped on by Celtic fans. These "facts" then come back at us twisted out of all recognition and Tom Hart is suddenly The Grand Wizard in the League Against All Catholicism and attempted to change Hibs name to Edinburgh Rangers or some other crap.


I don't think any accusation that Tom Hart was anti- Catholic stands up to much scrutiny.

He was baptised in ST. Martins R. C. church in Tranent in 1922.

Strange how he's been on a lot, yet ignored this eh?

Kato
14-10-2009, 07:29 PM
Strange how he's been on a lot, yet ignored this eh?

Ach well, if we're honest we've all spouted some guff on internet message boards - I certainly have but I've either admitted it or fought my corner, canny understand just ignoring stuff.

Some people have no *****.

blackpoolhibs
14-10-2009, 07:31 PM
Ach well, if we're honest we've all spouted some guff on internet message boards - I certainly have but I've either admitted it or fought my corner, canny understand just ignoring stuff.

Some people have no *****.

Well i certainly have never spouted any guff on this or any other message board.:wink:

HibbyAndy
14-10-2009, 07:40 PM
Ach well, if we're honest we've all spouted some guff on internet message boards - I certainly have but I've either admitted it or fought my corner, canny understand just ignoring stuff.

Some people have no *****.


Speak for yoursef.

Ive never ever spouted shight on this site.

Every point i make is valid.

Kato
14-10-2009, 08:02 PM
Well i certainly have never spouted any guff on this or any other message board.:wink:


Speak for yoursef.

Ive never ever spouted shight on this site.

Every point i make is valid.


Guff.:wink:

Kaiser1962
15-10-2009, 09:22 AM
3.) Sorry, but the TV companies buy scottish football rights becaus ethey get to show Celtic and Rangers games. End of story.



Sorry Jack but I raise this issue about TV money again and I am not having a go because I think this forum, unlike some others, gives supporters a chance to air their views openly. Back to the TV money. Why does the argument that you guys use in Scotland (see quote above) not apply to England. Surely the people who watch TV games would much rather watch Man U , Celtic, Rangers, Liverpool so that they should get a much bigger slice of the money than Fulham, Blackburn, Stoke, West Ham for example. Surely the situation in these countries is relative?

Bad Martini
15-10-2009, 11:28 AM
Ahh, Mr Regan...ah see yer still living on another planet with regard to the tic NOT being biggots/biggoted/having nae sectarian problem and the auld "they're worse than us" pish wi the huns is still there.

Whilst this is true, the huns are worse than the tic (marginally), it's fair to say yer nae angels yerselves.

That said, with 400,000 fans, there's guaranteed to be some bad eggs eh :greengrin

Anyways, it's saddened me a lot to see the old firm in a decline. Losing money, seeing penalties given against their players :confused: and all that malarkey...bichrist affore ye ken it youse will be seeing your players being knicked by clubs with mair money and being shafted with bad decisions....ah wait, the huns in Europe...hahaahha :thumbsup:

ENDOF

TornadoHibby
15-10-2009, 02:48 PM
........
ENDOF

That's been missing from here for a long time! :wink:

How's things and where's ya bin!? :greengrin

Bad Martini
15-10-2009, 07:15 PM
That's been missing from here for a long time! :wink:

How's things and where's ya bin!? :greengrin

As ah wis saying to ma amigo Hibby Andy aka Hammish the great, ah had stepped into yon shower aboot 14 months ago and ken, like a scene oot of Dallas, that wis it. Boom - October 2009 here we come :thumbsup:

Aw good matey...aw good and indeed, aw the better for seeing that fine avatar of yours :aok:

Horse
16-10-2009, 10:01 PM
I think it's fair to say that both Rangers and Celtic are not football clubs in the sense that the rest of the other Scottish teams are. Almost every other team has some sort of attachment to their local community whereas the OF are simply a joint sectarian/gloryhunting franchise who care nothing about their national league let alone their local community. They only care about lining their pockets and always have done since their illegitimate conception. For that reason the OF will always prostitute themselves to any league that ensures they get to gorge themselves on he largest amount of money possible so lets not lose any sleep over the half baked money making schemes they so regularly bore the rest of us with. These are two teams who actively exploited the misery of the troubles in Ireland to line their pockets so no depth that they stoop to will ever surprise me.