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View Full Version : OF wish to leave the SPL - why don't "WE" kick them out now?



PeeJay
08-10-2009, 04:13 PM
Celtic would consider entering at the lowest level: Rangers claim they won't be in the SPL in ten years. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/c/celtic/8296085.stm

Is there any way that the other clubs in the SPL can boycott these teams and leave them hanging in mid air before the English accept them? Seems we will have to face up to losing them anyway: why not kick them out of the SPL as soon as possible?

Keith_M
08-10-2009, 04:15 PM
That could have happened before, when the other 10 were considering a breakaway of their own.

With the exception of Hibs, Hearts and Aberdeen the clubs bottled it.

I can't see it happening again.

HIBERNIAN-0762
08-10-2009, 04:18 PM
They can **** off anytime they like, I can't be bothered with this argument about the amount of money other clubs will lose if they go, other teams will get stronger and win more trophies I'm sure, we simply don't need them and when they go the stupid morning papers that devote 8-10 pages every day can **** off with them!,

:agree::agree::agree:

Woody1985
08-10-2009, 04:23 PM
None of the clubs would go for it, especially with the existing financial situation.

There would be more calls for a GB national team if they were to join. I know there are Welsh teams there just now but none of their clubs are on the scale of R/C.

It would be great to win the SPL, even without them IMO. Everyone would rather do it when they are here but that's a long way off.

PeeJay
08-10-2009, 04:33 PM
None of the clubs would go for it, especially with the existing financial situation.

There would be more calls for a GB national team if they were to join. I know there are Welsh teams there just now but none of their clubs are on the scale of R/C.

It would be great to win the SPL, even without them IMO. Everyone would rather do it when they are here but that's a long way off.

Sure, but Rangers are looking at a period of 10 years - the OF would jump sooner if possible. Surely, it's better for the other teams to be pro-active and get their heads together now rather than waiting for them to go?

Kaiser_Sauzee
08-10-2009, 04:34 PM
I would back a campaign to drive this filth out of Scottish football. I won't have my club or any other club held to ransom by them. They have ruined the Scottish game for over 100 years and have gotten away with it. Time to fight back.

I am officially forming SFAOF (Scottish Football Against the Old Firm).

Who's in?

Woody1985
08-10-2009, 04:36 PM
Sure, but Rangers are looking at a period of 10 years - the OF would jump sooner if possible. Surely, it's better for the other teams to be pro-active and get their heads together now rather than waiting for them to go?

Certainly, we should be proactive in making provisions for them going. However, I anticipate there will be a vote when the time comes whether everyone joins the English leagues or stay as the SPL.

There will probably be the same split again, the bigger SPL teams want to stay as the SPL and the others will want to go to England to protect their revenue streams and their clubs future.

PeeJay
08-10-2009, 04:48 PM
Certainly, we should be proactive in making provisions for them going. However, I anticipate there will be a vote when the time comes whether everyone joins the English leagues or stay as the SPL.

There will probably be the same split again, the bigger SPL teams want to stay as the SPL and the others will want to go to England to protect their revenue streams and their clubs future.

Never thought we would "all" be going south - that's bowled me over! Surely not? :confused:

Petrie's Tache
08-10-2009, 04:50 PM
I would back a campaign to drive this filth out of Scottish football. I won't have my club or any other club held to ransom by them. They have ruined the Scottish game for over 100 years and have gotten away with it. Time to fight back.

I am officially forming SFAOF (Scottish Football Against the Old Firm).

Who's in?


I am:agree:

lEXO
08-10-2009, 04:51 PM
Sick of these guys talking about this.why dont the clubs do what they done before and give notice to quit.Given a more competitive league with more teams having a chance of success,maybe our game and players would flourish.It,s been proved by the attendances of ourselves,the yams,aberdeen,utd etc that when we are being fairly successfull and playing good football attendances climb.
I for one would,nt miss them and it would maybe help clubs who are proud of their scottish traditions and want to be part of our leagues prosper again.I hope it would,but defo sick of listening to these twats telling us that given the chance they will drop us like a hot potato.

Brizo
08-10-2009, 05:08 PM
It would be interesting to know how many in England , apart from the Bolton chairman , actually want them. Id have thought for a lot of clubs it would be like turkeys voting for Christmas. Id have also thought there wouldnt be many down there wanting to import the OFs "traditions". As West Ham vs Millwall showed recently theres still the potential for major trouble dahn sarf and some fixtures could take on a sectarian element ie Chelsea vs Celtic or Everton vs Rangers.

Would love it to happen , not only to make our league genuinely competitive and rid us of the media sycophancy and the bigotry , but because I think theyd struggle to break into the EPL top 5 or 6 even after a few years. When the OF arent winning trophies on a regular basis their fans dissapear quicker than snow of a dyke ie Celtc during the 80s and Rangers pre Souness and either of the OF at home to say Bolton in a half full stadium would be a real GIRUY to their arrogance.

Dan Sarf
08-10-2009, 05:28 PM
I would back a campaign to drive this filth out of Scottish football. I won't have my club or any other club held to ransom by them. They have ruined the Scottish game for over 100 years and have gotten away with it. Time to fight back.

I am officially forming SFAOF (Scottish Football Against the Old Firm).

Who's in?

I'm in. Where do we march? And when? :greengrin

Hibee_Rab
08-10-2009, 05:42 PM
I hate them, but in the same way I hate hearts in that my favourite bit of the season is pumping them, could be That I would miss the games against them. Plus if they go to england it shows a complete disrespect for the scottish game, they are scottish teams, they should play in scotland. That executive talking about the celtic story? It is a scottish story just like ours and if they were to leave I don't think anyone would have any respect for them left.

bingo70
08-10-2009, 05:47 PM
I hate them, but in the same way I hate hearts in that my favourite bit of the season is pumping them, could be That I would miss the games against them. Plus if they go to england it shows a complete disrespect for the scottish game, they are scottish teams, they should play in scotland. That executive talking about the celtic story? It is a scottish story just like ours and if they were to leave I don't think anyone would have any respect for them left.

If they weren't here your favorite bits in the season could change to us winning the league, cups and qualifying for europe regularly.

At a time when England are sucking up to UEFA and FIFA to help there bid for the world cup, i'd be very surprised if they were to want the old firm.

Hibercelona
08-10-2009, 05:49 PM
I hate them, but in the same way I hate hearts in that my favourite bit of the season is pumping them, could be That I would miss the games against them. Plus if they go to england it shows a complete disrespect for the scottish game, they are scottish teams, they should play in scotland. That executive talking about the celtic story? It is a scottish story just like ours and if they were to leave I don't think anyone would have any respect for them left.

They are more of a disrespect to Scotland by being here.

Cheerio OF :bye:

CRAZYHIBBY
08-10-2009, 05:49 PM
Rangers and Celtic have 40-50 thousand people going to most home games, where Hibs and Hearts scrape 15 thousand, now without them what chance does the SPL have of attracting investors or T.V deals:confused:

Chuckie
08-10-2009, 05:49 PM
I would back a campaign to drive this filth out of Scottish football. I won't have my club or any other club held to ransom by them. They have ruined the Scottish game for over 100 years and have gotten away with it. Time to fight back.

I am officially forming SFAOF (Scottish Football Against the Old Firm).

Who's in?

http://i396.photobucket.com/albums/pp49/Chuckie1977/jk.jpg

bingo70
08-10-2009, 05:54 PM
Rangers and Celtic have 40-50 thousand people going to most home games, where Hibs and Hearts scrape 15 thousand, now without them what chance does the SPL have of attracting investors or T.V deals:confused:

We'll have one of the most competitive leagues in Europe in a country that's football daft.

Hibs against Aberdeen in a title decider would attract a much bigger crowd than 15000, then we'd have other SPL teams having the opportunity to qualify for the champions league.

Also if they were to leave, i've no doubt we'd be well compensated to get us bye for a few years.

Hibercelona
08-10-2009, 05:54 PM
Rangers and Celtic have 40-50 thousand people going to most home games, where Hibs and Hearts scrape 15 thousand, now without them what chance does the SPL have of attracting investors or T.V deals:confused:

Why do you think Rangers and Celtic have such a large fan base and media interest?

Big Frank
08-10-2009, 06:01 PM
They ruin Scottish fitba' because the authorities let them.

If they would wind their necks in and stop cheating!!!

If Hibernian won the top league in Scotland without them, whats the point?

Do you think that, say, Spurz would be happy winning the Premiership without Liverpool, Man utd, Chelsea and Arsenal taking part?

The OF get the majority of decisions in their favour. Bring parity into the game. First thing needed is refs brought in from outwith Scotland.

Rangers and Celtic cheat on all fronts, even down to when their players get their hearings/suspensions. It honks. West coast press? Don't get me started!!!!

They DO NOT need to leave their country - they need to stop running the game here!

I despise them, but they MUST stay.

speedy_gonzales
08-10-2009, 06:03 PM
Regardless of how 'BIG' these clubs claim to be and how they single handedly keep scottish football aloat, I think we would get by without them! Admittedly the advertising money would dry up and the global appeal of the SPL would shrivel away to nothing but for the teams and fans left behind, the opporchancity for success would be obviously greater, thus giving us our longed for Saturdays back where we play to win, not to see who's best of the rest!
As an aside and in reaction to an earlier post of getting rid of the infirm sooner rather than later, what are the rules on teams deliberatley not playing fixtures? I raised a point in the pub years back, and not knowing the rules I don't know what the repercussions would be, but what would happen if the other 10 refused to play 2 games a season, say the first away game against each of the infirm? This would result in less gate money for them but they would get 3pts guaranteed as a forfeit, this would then mean the league would rely on mainly their away performance and their dire excuse of a derby. Any mileage in that one?

oconnors_strip
08-10-2009, 06:05 PM
Rangers and Celtic have 40-50 thousand people going to most home games, where Hibs and Hearts scrape 15 thousand, now without them what chance does the SPL have of attracting investors or T.V deals:confused:

out of that 40-50 thousand fans, how many will travel down south to see their team every week, even only once a month? answer to that is not alot.

i think alot of the "younger" and "football" fans will slowly start to follow a local scottish team and eventually start supporting them by going to matches, buying the strip and merchandise etc etc.

tv companies will be interested in the spl, a full house at easter road against the likes of hearts/aberdeen/united, the match being the league decider.

:bye: bigots, send your problem letters to deirdrie at the sun newspaper as none of us want to hear you greetin':greengrin

sadtom
08-10-2009, 06:19 PM
We'll have one of the most competitive leagues in Europe in a country that's football daft.

Hibs against Aberdeen in a title decider would attract a much bigger crowd than 15000, then we'd have other SPL teams having the opportunity to qualify for the champions league.

Also if they were to leave, i've no doubt we'd be well compensated to get us bye for a few years.


It would be competative. But why dont we go and watch the 'maybury' league? Thats probably more competative.
There would be zero interest in scottish fitba. the old squirm would still dominate the scottish media and would virtually become scottish fitba in exile. The rest would get the sort of coverage that div 2 and the juniors get before long.
I understand peoples frustration and abject hatred of the o/f and the status quo in scotland, but the weegies leaving would be the begining of the end. The weegies would survive but would probably get smaller due to lack of success and the increasing 'remoteness' of the club in relation to is location and core. Add to that the increase in cost of matches and travelling, once the initial novelty had worn of then it would be a downward slope. The glory hunters gone and the bigots squeezed out of the shiny, sanitised new set up they will lose the sort of numbers they can rely on to dominate in scotland.
For the rest of the teams left they would be part time in a matter of years. there would be no champions league places for the winner, the best we would get is having about 4 qualifiers (and that will probably be for the europa league.)
Much as i hate them, we need them, not as much as they need us though, because they are only the size they are because the play in scotland. Not in spite of it, but those fudleys cant actually see that.

The bottom line is they are scottish clubs, there is a scottish professional league, and they should under no circumstances be allowed to leave it. It would see the end of fitba as we know it throughout the world.
Portugese top 3 playing in spain, the dutch/polish in germany, swiss in france/italy etc etc.
Even the prospect of european leagues are nonsense. A thread on here correctly noted that crowds for the top euro tourney (champs league) are poor at even the 'big 4' in england, (the huns were also well short of capacity against the biggest team in their group) until the later stages. While clubs are getting guffy turnouts for the europa league, look at villa/everton/celtic gates at the recent games.
It is age old rivalries and accessable and meaningful domestic matches that attract crowds in every country.

blaikie
08-10-2009, 06:23 PM
I would back a campaign to drive this filth out of Scottish football. I won't have my club or any other club held to ransom by them. They have ruined the Scottish game for over 100 years and have gotten away with it. Time to fight back.

I am officially forming SFAOF (Scottish Football Against the Old Firm).

Who's in?
I'm in :greengrin,
Little off topic but wouldn't it be more ideal for the old firm if they joined the Northern Irish league perhaps? The only real objections for this would come from the ferry companies who wouldn't be able to run these bigot cruises anymore. :agree:

bingo70
08-10-2009, 06:29 PM
It would be competative. But why dont we go and watch the 'maybury' league? Thats probably more competative.
There would be zero interest in scottish fitba. the old squirm would still dominate the scottish media and would virtually become scottish fitba in exile. The rest would get the sort of coverage that div 2 and the juniors get before long.
I understand peoples frustration and abject hatred of the o/f and the status quo in scotland, but the weegies leaving would be the begining of the end. The weegies would survive but would probably get smaller due to lack of success and the increasing 'remoteness' of the club in relation to is location and core. Add to that the increase in cost of matches and travelling, once the initial novelty had worn of then it would be a downward slope. The glory hunters gone and the bigots squeezed out of the shiny, sanitised new set up they will lose the sort of numbers they can rely on to dominate in scotland.
For the rest of the teams left they would be part time in a matter of years. there would be no champions league places for the winner, the best we would get is having about 4 qualifiers (and that will probably be for the europa league.)
Much as i hate them, we need them, not as much as they need us though, because they are only the size they are because the play in scotland. Not in spite of it, but those fudleys cant actually see that.

The bottom line is they are scottish clubs, there is a scottish professional league, and they should under no circumstances be allowed to leave it. It would see the end of fitba as we know it throughout the world.
Portugese top 3 playing in spain, the dutch/polish in germany, swiss in france/italy etc etc.
Even the prospect of european leagues are nonsense. A thread on here correctly noted that crowds for the top euro tourney (champs league) are poor at even the 'big 4' in england, (the huns were also well short of capacity against the biggest team in their group) until the later stages. While clubs are getting guffy turnouts for the europa league, look at villa/everton/celtic gates at the recent games.
It is age old rivalries and accessable and meaningful domestic matches that attract crowds in every country.

IMO your doing Scottish football a disservice, hibs, hearts, aberdeen and possibly the 2 dundee clubs are big clubs, that given the chance of competing for something they could actually win would attract large supports.

IMO Scottish football would thrive without the OF

lEXO
08-10-2009, 06:31 PM
IMO your doing Scottish football a disservice, hibs, hearts, aberdeen and possibly the 2 dundee clubs are big clubs, that given the chance of competing for something they could actually win would attract large supports.

IMO Scottish football would thrive without the OF
:top marks

whiskyhibby
08-10-2009, 06:33 PM
I would back a campaign to drive this filth out of Scottish football. I won't have my club or any other club held to ransom by them. They have ruined the Scottish game for over 100 years and have gotten away with it. Time to fight back.

I am officially forming SFAOF (Scottish Football Against the Old Firm).

Who's in?


Put my name down :bye::bye::bye::bye:

Beefster
08-10-2009, 06:34 PM
out of that 40-50 thousand fans, how many will travel down south to see their team every week, even only once a month? answer to that is not alot.

I disagree but even if that was right, I'm not sure what difference that would make. They'd still fill their grounds every home game and youngsters will still be attracted to a local (in relative terms) Scottish club playing in the Premiership.

joe t
08-10-2009, 06:40 PM
controversial post. Why not make sure we finish third the next 2 or 3 years. then when they get the nod from england demand to be given acess to the same league with them!

manx hibee
08-10-2009, 06:41 PM
I would back a campaign to drive this filth out of Scottish football. I won't have my club or any other club held to ransom by them. They have ruined the Scottish game for over 100 years and have gotten away with it. Time to fight back.

I am officially forming SFAOF (Scottish Football Against the Old Firm).

Who's in?
i'm in
i think scottish clubs would prosper if they
####ed off imagine a knuckle dragging weegie
doleite who loves his saturday footie having too
shell oot to go n see r/c down at fulham/portsmouth
wolves etc wont do it ???
cant afford it so would go n watch another team ???????????:wink:

bingo70
08-10-2009, 06:42 PM
controversial post. Why not make sure we finish third the next 2 or 3 years. then when they get the nod from england demand to be given acess to the same league with them!

Because we're scottish, if they want to dump us then thats up to them, however i'd be gutted if we tried to do the same.

Darth Hibbie
08-10-2009, 06:46 PM
Think the OF are running scared. They are bringing this up again because they are falling back and the other teams in Scotland are catching them. They want to go south before the league becomes closer and the EPL lose interest.

The sooner the better for me.

jdships
08-10-2009, 07:07 PM
Think events may overtake the OF sooner than later !
Given the amount of money that can be made from TV rights surely it is only a matter of time until top clubs in England , Italy, Spain, Portugal, Germany & France ( at least) decide to "maximise their potential" and form an European "Super League" set up with regional leagues to cover the relegation factor.
Can't really see the OF being invited to "eat at the big boy's table" with the amount of foreign money that is being invested in English football.

Remember too that it is a well known fact that between 30/40% of OF season ticket holders live outside Scotland.
Would they consider travelling to see Accrington Stanley playing at Ibrox/Parkhead ?
There is also the "Independence factor" to consider !
Should Scotland become independent would the rulling body allow the OF to play in a "foreign" league while based here ?

Don't think it is just as simple as upping sticks and moving to another league in England . Would guess it is more likely to be to one of the minor "European" leagues in the hope they can get to the top division

Long way to go on this one methinks !!!

:greengrin

roc1
08-10-2009, 07:08 PM
imho the sooner they toddle off the better..... BUT I cannot see it being to the EPL. If for no other reason I believe such a move would be the end for International football in the British Isles in it's current format( maybe not such a bad thing then for us scots :wink:) I don't think that anyone really wants to see an end to Scotland in the Euros or World Cup, even if it is only the qualifiers:rolleyes:, except some of the beancounters at the clubs perhaps who look to protect their 'investments'.

I do believe that a Euro League is coming but only once the top clubs agree a format, a cash split and who gets invited and there can be little doubt it will be by invitation only. Even then I do not believe any of those pair would be in the top flight. Assuming this happens then the remaining clubs have to ensure that Rantic are not allowed to leave a 2nd string presence behind playing in a reformed SPL. For the forseeable they are stuck with us and we, sadly, are stuck with them!!

LancashireHibby
08-10-2009, 07:12 PM
I'm refusing to get my hopes up, I think it's all hot air, to be honest - they'd soon realise that they'd rather be a big fish in a small pond rather than face the harsh truth if they joined a Euro league etc.

Sunny1875
08-10-2009, 07:17 PM
Just as well we have not commiteed to new east stand then.
We would need to add to it once we start competing for the league

We would also have to find space for the sons of the old firm who when not given trophies year on year would look elswhere. Mid table EPL would not be enough, Also after a some regular pumpings I think thier devoted faithfull would start to look elswhere for thier football.

Something all scottish teams would need to look out for would be the numpties following the bigot brothers infiltrating reasonable supports and trying to export thier bile.
Be aware of this and be sure to educate them if they attempt this.

Reason we would need increased capacity Success brings fans to the gates.

Celtic average attendances : for the 11 seasons before thier 1967 european cup they only managed an average attendance of over 25K in one. From 1980 to 1995 they only pushed thier average attendance over 30K for 3 seasons and never over 35K average for any one season. 83-84 was a low of 18,390 average attendance.

Lack of success will see them drop to these levels once again ?

oconnors_strip
08-10-2009, 07:17 PM
I disagree but even if that was right, I'm not sure what difference that would make. They'd still fill their grounds every home game and youngsters will still be attracted to a local (in relative terms) Scottish club playing in the Premiership.

but they dont fill their grounds every week! ibrox and parkhead attendance figures are slowly dwinldling every season. they cant even sell out for european games!:bitchy:

thats the mentality we want to get rid of in young people in scotland, there is more teams than celtic, rangers and the EPL. they need us and the sfa to show them that and get them involved in SCOTTISH football!

NOLA
08-10-2009, 07:25 PM
read some time ago that the police authoritys in england would strongly object to the infirm joining the english leagues for fear of large scale disorder at many stadia/cities, celtic for instance have thousands of fans in london particulary, ex-pats and irish.

GreenPJ
08-10-2009, 07:37 PM
Can Scotland afford to be independent?
Can Scottish football survive without the old firm?

Nobody knows (yet) :wink:

I personally think that Scottish football would survive without them and ultimately get better in terms of competitiveness, crowds and even skill through time. You need to think about going down the route of attaching Scottish clubs to large european clubs and getting access to good young players on loan to accompany home grown talent.

Yes you would not get the TV revenue you currently demand, however, if you got 2,000 or 3,000 more through a home gate and regular games on a Saturday (and maybe even a Friday night) you will appeal to a lot more walk-up fans and also try and get a TV slot that is not overly competitive on a Friday night so try and get some TV revenue other than just terrestial.

As someone said previously the authorities need to start proactively planning now. 2 leagues, one governing body ultimately, shared training facilities and youth academies, maybe even a National football academy and a draft concept for the best young players to keep all teams relatively competitive.

It would no doubt be painful initially but I think worth it in the end and go and let Walter/Ally and Tony play on the big boys stage and see how well they can do.

Hibhibhooray
08-10-2009, 07:43 PM
They have made their beds, they have over spent for years (I seem to remember Flo was £12m) and now they can't clear their debts its the fault of Scottish football.

The last rounds of european football they could 't fill their grounds but they think that going to england will sovle all their problems.

Why would any english club want them in their league, which could stop an english club from being promoted or qualifing for europe, additional costs traveling to glasgow.

IF they go I think the SPL could survive but it would have to marketed differently and proactivly to make it work but I think it could work and when the infirm loose gate money from no european football and mid table in the championship they should be told you ain't getting back in.

This would impact on so many things but hey hoy rant over

mjhibby
08-10-2009, 07:54 PM
Its the usual story that crops up when there is a meaningless game on at the weekend.If only they would just go then we could be rid of them.The papers would still be full of them im afraid but the thought of us challenging for the league each season does seem exciting.Never going to happen of course but we can all dream.

ancient hibee
08-10-2009, 08:35 PM
IMO your doing Scottish football a disservice, hibs, hearts, aberdeen and possibly the 2 dundee clubs are big clubs, that given the chance of competing for something they could actually win would attract large supports.

IMO Scottish football would thrive without the OF

You're living in cloud cuckoo land I'm afraid .When United and Aberdeen were the top teams in Scotland they couldn't fill their grounds and they were humping the OF at the time and more people went to football generally.

jakedance
08-10-2009, 08:51 PM
I'd love to see the back of them. Scottish football would adapt and go on without them.

It would be a disaster for them long term I expect, once the novelty wore off and their supporters realised that their aren't any Stuttgart supporters at their work to take the piss out of which is, essentially, what football is all about. They'd be wee fish in a big pond which would be a culture shock for them, let's see how big their crowds are when they're bottom of their league.

Greed, that's the only thing driving this.

heretoday
08-10-2009, 08:58 PM
Much as I find the OF distasteful, I have to say that the game here would virtually die without them.

Irish_Steve
08-10-2009, 09:01 PM
There`s nothing in the rules to prevent the Cancer Twins from resigning fron the SPL and applying to join the EPL - however, some hurdles have to be taken in order for that to happen.

First the EPL would have to accept them, and secondly, UEFA would have to ratify any decision made by the EPL. I`ve read before that UEFA are opposed to teams playing outwith their geographical regions as it would just opene the flood-gates for the likes of Liverpool, Man U, AC and Inter Milan etc to move to the Spanish Leagues.

Mind you, it would be hilarious if they got their wish to move to the EPL, only for all the big boys to leave that league

Will it happen............................................ ...................no

Irish_Steve
08-10-2009, 09:04 PM
Much as I find the OF distasteful, I have to say that the game here would virtually die without them.


I dont think it would - look what happened during our "Great Adventure" - attendances were up mainly because we were romping the league, admittedly after a dodgy start, and if Hibs, Hearts, Aberdeen, Arabs were challenging for the League Title, fans would be flocking to games

lEXO
08-10-2009, 09:17 PM
I dont think it would - look what happened during our "Great Adventure" - attendances were up mainly because we were romping the league, admittedly after a dodgy start, and if Hibs, Hearts, Aberdeen, Arabs were challenging for the League Title, fans would be flocking to games
:top marks

heretoday
08-10-2009, 09:59 PM
:top marks

Yes but.....

Hibercelona
08-10-2009, 10:05 PM
There`s nothing in the rules to prevent the Cancer Twins from resigning fron the SPL and applying to join the EPL - however, some hurdles have to be taken in order for that to happen.

First the EPL would have to accept them, and secondly, UEFA would have to ratify any decision made by the EPL. I`ve read before that UEFA are opposed to teams playing outwith their geographical regions as it would just opene the flood-gates for the likes of Liverpool, Man U, AC and Inter Milan etc to move to the Spanish Leagues.

Mind you, it would be hilarious if they got their wish to move to the EPL, only for all the big boys to leave that league

Will it happen............................................ ...................no

Will be even funnier when they beg us to let them back in.... and we tell them both to ****** off. :agree:

NAE NOOKIE
08-10-2009, 10:06 PM
I dont think it would - look what happened during our "Great Adventure" - attendances were up mainly because we were romping the league, admittedly after a dodgy start, and if Hibs, Hearts, Aberdeen, Arabs were challenging for the League Title, fans would be flocking to games

The 1st division Great Adventure went the way it did because we won nearly every week, because the fans wanted to show how loyal they could be to the club and because we played a few clubs who fans had never had the chance to see. But there was the prize of the SPL at the end and it was only for one season. Would the crowds have stayed at the same level if we had failed to get promotion? ..... I doubt it.

The OF have been seducing fans from supporting other clubs for years, how many more fans would the game lose to them if they were in the EPL ? The fact that the game would be more attractive without them would be offset by the loss of future Hibs, Aberdeen, Motherwell, hearts fans to an EPL base OF.

Since clubs started to keep all of their own gate money, the OF delusion that they subsidise the Scottish game, at least through the turnstyles, doesnt hold water, how much of Hibs revenue comes from actual pay at the gate OF fans ? 4 Home games a season against the OF only brings about 15,000 through the gate, which adds up to one decent home game in total.

Its the loss of TV money and advertising revenue, the loss of potential supporters, and the pathetic media coverage we would get overall which would affect the SPL most if they went.

Either they dont go at all, or if they do we go with them are the only two options IMO.

Septimus
09-10-2009, 04:34 AM
Let them go and take their grounds with them. There is no way that they should be allowed to play within Scotland if they have opted out of the Scottish system.

Also it should be made clear that there is no way back.

Lucius Apuleius
09-10-2009, 05:35 AM
is there not an SFA/SPL rule about bringing the game into disrepute? Saying you wants to leave because the league setup is gash is about as disreputable (:greengrin) as you can get IMO. OFGTF.

EasterRoad4Ever
09-10-2009, 05:59 AM
The irony is that these two maggots of Scottish Football try to give the impression that they detest and want nothing to do with each other, yet when it comes to pushing the SFA/SPL around or flexing their financial muscles - they're unseemly bed fellows. It's disgusting.

Now wouldn't it be funny if only one of them was invited to join the EPL :greengrin and the other was forced to languish in the SPL or move to the Irish League :greengrin

Mary Hinge
09-10-2009, 06:32 AM
It's pathetic the way these two spoilt brats continually prostitute themselves to the EPL .......

IIRC Keith Wyness (when he was chief exec. at Aberdeen) likened them to two old ladies hitching their skirts up on Sauchiehall Street, waiting for any old geezer that was passing to give them one.

Nothing appears to have changed there then :dummytit:

Sunny1875
09-10-2009, 06:48 AM
It would be competative. But why dont we go and watch the 'maybury' league? Thats probably more competative.
There would be zero interest in scottish fitba. the old squirm would still dominate the scottish media and would virtually become scottish fitba in exile. The rest would get the sort of coverage that div 2 and the juniors get before long.
I understand peoples frustration and abject hatred of the o/f and the status quo in scotland, but the weegies leaving would be the begining of the end. The weegies would survive but would probably get smaller due to lack of success and the increasing 'remoteness' of the club in relation to is location and core. Add to that the increase in cost of matches and travelling, once the initial novelty had worn of then it would be a downward slope. The glory hunters gone and the bigots squeezed out of the shiny, sanitised new set up they will lose the sort of numbers they can rely on to dominate in scotland.
For the rest of the teams left they would be part time in a matter of years. there would be no champions league places for the winner, the best we would get is having about 4 qualifiers (and that will probably be for the europa league.)
Much as i hate them, we need them, not as much as they need us though, because they are only the size they are because the play in scotland. Not in spite of it, but those fudleys cant actually see that.

The bottom line is they are scottish clubs, there is a scottish professional league, and they should under no circumstances be allowed to leave it. It would see the end of fitba as we know it throughout the world.
Portugese top 3 playing in spain, the dutch/polish in germany, swiss in france/italy etc etc.
Even the prospect of european leagues are nonsense. A thread on here correctly noted that crowds for the top euro tourney (champs league) are poor at even the 'big 4' in england, (the huns were also well short of capacity against the biggest team in their group) until the later stages. While clubs are getting guffy turnouts for the europa league, look at villa/everton/celtic gates at the recent games.
It is age old rivalries and accessable and meaningful domestic matches that attract crowds in every country.

Good Post .....but However competative the maybury league is the standard is not very good however the standard at ER and other grounds is. We and others will continue bringing through exciting quality players The difference is if these players are not doing the damage against the infirm they wont buy them after a season then they may be allowed to develop and flourish before moving on to other high profile european clubs.
if they are good enough (imagine deeks if he had been allowed to develop to his full potential without his time cooling his heals along the M8).

If the Scottish media is dominated by clubs not playing in Scotland then turn over the TV, Dont buy thier papers, but dont stop there write to them Email them, phone them, and tell them why you are not buying thier product. Inform thier sponsors (those who advertise in the papers etc), That you may have bought thier product but they are actively supporting a non scottish media so you are having second thoughts.

Hibs - Hearts is an older rivalry than the OF.

There are some clubs who could, given the right circumstances attract a large support. How many did Aberdeen take to gothenburg for a euro final ? (about 16-20K if my memory serves me correctly).
How many Hearts fans travelled to Dundee on the final day when they almost won the league?. How many Hibs fans were at hampden for the skol cup against Dunfermline.
With restructuring and the more level playing field there would be more meaningfull and accessable games for more clubs and fans. 2 leagues of 16 clubs, 1 home game 1 away game, league cup in sections, Scottish cup as is.

what would the attendances be on the final day of the season if say
HIbs played Dunfermline,Dundee played Hearts and Aberdeen Played Kilmarnock., With the title going to one of those teams, anyone want to tell me there would be a spare seat in any of those grounds.

Attractive football boosts attendances, Winning football with a real chance of winning a title would boost it even more

lyonhibs
09-10-2009, 06:48 AM
Celtic would consider entering at the lowest level: Rangers claim they won't be in the SPL in ten years. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/c/celtic/8296085.stm

Is there any way that the other clubs in the SPL can boycott these teams and leave them hanging in mid air before the English accept them? Seems we will have to face up to losing them anyway: why not kick them out of the SPL as soon as possible?

Re: Thread title - I'd quite like a threesome with Megan Fox and Cameron Diaz.

Sadly, neither that nor the OF leaving the SPL is going to happen anytime soon - they are living in cloud cuckoo land if they think the English Leagues would just stiff their own teams and procedures to let in that bunch of bigots.

Only realistic way would be some sort of "Big Teams in Diddy Leagues" league with the likes of Ajax, PSV, Sporting Lisbon and Porto etc, but that kind of thing has been bandied about for years with nada in the way of concrete progress towards actually making it happen.

Mary Hinge
09-10-2009, 06:51 AM
[/COLOR]

Good Post .....but However competative the maybury league is the standard is not very good however the standard at ER and other grounds is. We and others will continue bringing through exciting quality players The difference is if these players are not doing the damage against the infirm they wont buy them after a season then they may be allowed to develop and flourish before moving on to other high profile european clubs.
if they are good enough (imagine deeks if he had been allowed to develop to his full potential without his time cooling his heals along the M8).

If the Scottish media is dominated by clubs not playing in Scotland then turn over the TV, Dont buy thier papers, but dont stop there write to them Email them, phone them, and tell them why you are not buying thier product. Inform thier sponsors (those who advertise in the papers etc), That you may have bought thier product but they are actively supporting a non scottish media so you are having second thoughts.

Hibs - Hearts is an older rivalry than the OF.

There are some clubs who could, given the right circumstances attract a large support. How many did Aberdeen take to gothenburg for a euro final ? (about 16-20K if my memory serves me correctly).
How many Hearts fans travelled to Dundee on the final day when they almost won the league?. How many Hibs fans were at hampden for the skol cup against Dunfermline.
With restructuring and the more level playing field there would be more meaningfull and accessable games for more clubs and fans. 2 leagues of 16 clubs, 1 home game 1 away game, league cup in sections, Scottish cup as is.

what would the attendances be on the final day of the season if say
HIbs played Dunfermline,Dundee played Hearts and Aberdeen Played Kilmarnock., With the title going to one of those teams, anyone want to tell me there would be a spare seat in any of those grounds.

Attractive football boosts attendances, Winning football with a real chance of winning a title would boost it even more

Excellent post :top marks

I strongly agree with a revamped league of 2 divisions of 16 clubs :agree: It's the "4 games per season" format that's killing the League !! (not to mention the "poaching" antics of the infirm).

LancsHibs
09-10-2009, 07:19 AM
This will never happen, the big flaw in their plan is that the English don't want them??? why would they? They couldn't be parachuted into the Premiership, which two teams would be asked to make way for them??? The league couldn't be expanded to accommodate them as every Football League club not accept this. Why the hell would they let two 'foreign' teams in their top league ahead of them??? If they did make any plans to go they would have to be somehow accommodated at the bottom, league 2 or the Blue Square!
From what I can gauge down hear when this subject has been raised the clubs don't want it, the authorities certainly would object and the football fans down hear are quite frankly not interested in them!!
Anyhow, UEFA wouldn't let it happen, if they did they would open the floodgates for Belgian clubs applying to join the French league, Dutch clubs applying to join the German League, Portuguese clubs applying to join the Spanish League, i.e utter shambles!
The OF are our problem, and our problem they shall stay (unfortunately)

pacorosssco
09-10-2009, 07:58 AM
I would back a campaign to drive this filth out of Scottish football. I won't have my club or any other club held to ransom by them. They have ruined the Scottish game for over 100 years and have gotten away with it. Time to fight back.

I am officially forming SFAOF (Scottish Football Against the Old Firm).

Who's in?
:top marks

This is a great idea and rightly handled could be huge. No one likes old firm and why do they think its their right to play in an other countries league

Scottish football would be better with out them and I predict a lot of supporters of rangers and celtic may follow there local team when faced with costs of league games in lisbon amsterdam brussels or wherever every second week.

I think they OF are really on their knees now and the time is right to strike the killing blow

Good luck to you

You certainly get my vote

lEXO
09-10-2009, 08:06 AM
Yes but.....
Yes but what?

Keith_M
09-10-2009, 08:32 AM
Maybe Porto, Benfica and Sporting would like to join the Spanish league. They must be stifled in that diddy league of their own and would have access to Spanish TV money.

Then how about Ajax and PSV join the German league. Maybe even Rapid Vienna and Salzburg as well.

The thing is, if it starts in one country, where does it end? I'm sure Fifa/Uefa wouldn't allow it because it would set a precedent. I'm sure the OF know all the reasons why this is a non starter, which makes me wonder why they bother.

Dan Sarf
09-10-2009, 08:41 AM
Maybe Porto, Benfica and Sporting would like to join the Spanish league. They must be stifled in that diddy league of their own and would have access to Spanish TV money.

Then how about Ajax and PSV join the German league. Maybe even Rapid Vienna and Salzburg as well.

The thing is, if it starts in one country, where does it end? I'm sure Fifa/Uefa wouldn't allow it because it would set a precedent. I'm sure the OF know all the reasons why this is a non starter, which makes me wonder why they bother.

Got a feeling the teams you mention, plus our own two thugs, will try to set up their own Wantaway League. Any suggestions for a suitable name for this? :greengrin

sambajustice
09-10-2009, 08:52 AM
Thing is, they're banging on about being able to sign the best players in the world etc if they were down in England, but if Hibs and Hearts were down there selling out a 20k stadium every week and getting the Premiership tv money, Hibs and Hearts could also afford to pay 30k, 40k a week wages!

The only reason they're so dominant up here is because of their fan base and there's where their money comes from. Down in England size isn't everything because of all the extra money available to EVERYONE!

Stick Hibs Aberdeen and Hearts down in the Premiership with Celtic and Rangers and watch that current gap almost evaporate! Yeah, those two might take more fans to games but if the leage standings were based on fan numbers, Chelsea would be mid table mediocrity while Newcastle would be Champions League contenders!

Portsmouth, Wigan, Burnley, Fulham aren't that much bigger in terms of stadium size, than hibs or hearts, and 3 of those 4 are what you'd call established Premiership teams, the other team has 100% home record this season!

PeeJay
09-10-2009, 09:06 AM
My particular thinking with this post was along the lines of “Why wait for them to do us in, let’s do them in – NOW”.

This is an excerpt from the SPL Manual regarding rules and regulations

2.4.2.2 Provided always that such a decision is ratified in accordance with the
procedures set out in Article 2.4.2.1 above, a Member or Associate Member, may
be expelled from the Association if that Member or Associate Member, as a
league, by its officers or other representatives:
...

(ii) behaves in such a way that the image of the Association is likely to be
brought into disrepute;
(iii) seriously fails in its obligations or causes or threatens to cause
serious disruption in the operation of the Association;

The fact that they are openly proclaiming that the SPL is something they no longer view to be worthwhile and they are leaving as soon as possible surely provides grounds for their expulsion –:rules: this is one option open to the other clubs in the SPL? If the SPL clubs chickened out, they could just punish the OF – assuming they wish to stay in the SPL – by relegating them to Division 3. This would ruin their sponsorship deals, and rule them out of Europe – the loss in cash would be immense. The other Scottish clubs would benefit - in the longer term - at the OF’s expense.

If they're going, we should get in first!

And, if the English don’t want, them as has been suggested here, well who cares!:partyhibb

Hibbyradge
09-10-2009, 09:14 AM
Someone posted that because Rantic were playing the next day, the total attendance in all the Scottish divisions on Saturday was 37463.

That was on a day when Hibs, Dundee United and Motherwell all had the chance to go second in the SPL.

40 teams amassed a grand total of 37463.

Coca Cola League 2 on it's own had 39179.

I know these figures are inconvenient for the romantic notion that some how the SPL would flourish without the Old Firm, but the point does need to be made.

These are the facts.

bingo70
09-10-2009, 09:18 AM
My particular thinking with this post was along the lines of “Why wait for them to do us in, let’s do them in – NOW”.

This is an excerpt from the SPL Manual regarding rules and regulations

2.4.2.2 Provided always that such a decision is ratified in accordance with the
procedures set out in Article 2.4.2.1 above, a Member or Associate Member, may
be expelled from the Association if that Member or Associate Member, as a
league, by its officers or other representatives:
...

(ii) behaves in such a way that the image of the Association is likely to be
brought into disrepute;
(iii) seriously fails in its obligations or causes or threatens to cause
serious disruption in the operation of the Association;

The fact that they are openly proclaiming that the SPL is something they no longer view to be worthwhile and they are leaving as soon as possible surely provides grounds for their expulsion –:rules: this is one option open to the other clubs in the SPL? If the SPL clubs chickened out, they could just punish the OF – assuming they wish to stay in the SPL – by relegating them to Division 3. This would ruin their sponsorship deals, and rule them out of Europe – the loss in cash would be immense. The other Scottish clubs would benefit - in the longer term - at the OF’s expense.

If they're going, we should get in first!

And, if the English don’t want, them as has been suggested here, well who cares!:partyhibb

I agree that we'd be within our rights to boot them out, however, if the old firm leave on there terms i'm sure part of the agreement would be that we'd be well compensated, if we expell them from the league we'd get nowt.

I think we should start lobbying the EPL telling them what terrific assets they'd be to their league :greengrin

bingo70
09-10-2009, 09:21 AM
Someone posted that because Rantic were playing the next day, the total attendance in all the Scottish divisions on Saturday was 37463.

That was on a day when Hibs, Dundee United and Motherwell all had the chance to go second in the SPL.

40 teams amassed a grand total of 37463.

Coca Cola League 2 on it's own had 39179.

I know these figures are inconvenient for the romantic notion that some how the SPL would flourish without the Old Firm, but the point does need to be made.

These are the facts.

Going second 7 games into the season isn't that relevant, if that was the case with 7 games to go i think the figure would be a lot higher.

I also don't see the relevance of the league 2 figures, in scotland we need to stop comparing ourselves to England, any idea where we could compare attendences with the likes of Norway, Sweden, Portugal etc?

PeeJay
09-10-2009, 09:25 AM
I agree that we'd be within our rights to boot them out, however, if the old firm leave on there terms i'm sure part of the agreement would be that we'd be well compensated, if we expell them from the league we'd get nowt.

I think we should start lobbying the EPL telling them what terrific assets they'd be to their league :greengrin

I personally am not sure that compensation - if agreed to by the OF - would be sufficient to be worth putting into the equation. I mean what level of compensation do you think would be thrown into the basket here, what would be acceptable?

Anyway, if we kick them out now - they then have a mighty serious problem - including trying to negotiate to get into the EPL from a decidely weaker standpoint. :devil:

Hibbyradge
09-10-2009, 09:40 AM
Going second 7 games into the season isn't that relevant, if that was the case with 7 games to go i think the figure would be a lot higher.



How much higher?



Going second 7 games into the season isn't that relevant, if that was the case with 7 games to go i think the figure would be a lot higher.

I also don't see the relevance of the league 2 figures, in scotland we need to stop comparing ourselves to England, any idea where we could compare attendences with the likes of Norway, Sweden, Portugal etc?

We have to consider what happens in England because we compete against them for TV sponsorship, advertising revenue etc. Portugal, Sweden and Norway all have their own TV companies.

They are also on our doorstep and have easy access to our matches and our players.

Also, as far as I know, Sweden, Norway and Portugal are not trying to get rid of their biggest clubs.

If Rantic left, they'd take their supporters with them. We'd be left with a tiny proportion, so even comparison to Norway would be hugely unfavourable.

If that's what folk want, fair play. But the notion that somehow the SPL would prosper without 2/3rds of the footballing population is a leap too far for me.

Sylar
09-10-2009, 09:41 AM
Martin Bain's comments aren't really ludicrous to be honest. There has been discussion about a European/Atlantic league for years now, but nothing has come to fruition. This would be a good move for the OF, as it would present them with the "challenge" they desire (how long before they start losing glory hunting fans when they lose regularly to Europa Cup calibre teams), as well as giving Scottish Football a chance to blossom without them.

I personally think Celtic are the more deluded of the 2, continuing to reckon they'll play in England. How many times do the EPL (backed by the English police force) need to say "we don't WANT the OF" before it sinks in?!

Phil MaGlass
09-10-2009, 09:45 AM
why do you think rangers and celtic have such a large fan base and media interest?

bigotry

hibbiedon
09-10-2009, 09:46 AM
I would back a campaign to drive this filth out of Scottish football. I won't have my club or any other club held to ransom by them. They have ruined the Scottish game for over 100 years and have gotten away with it. Time to fight back.

I am officially forming SFAOF (Scottish Football Against the Old Firm).

Who's in?

Count me in

I honestly believe that they would come running back with their tails between their legs, I cant see all the glory hunters staying with them when they become the little fish in the big pond.

http://apps.facebook.com/causes/357633/68859956?m=6d54c0aa

Hibbyradge
09-10-2009, 09:47 AM
Martin Bain's comments aren't really ludicrous to be honest. There has been discussion about a European/Atlantic league for years now, but nothing has come to fruition. This would be a good move for the OF, as it would present them with the "challenge" they desire (how long before they start losing glory hunting fans when they lose regularly to Europa Cup calibre teams), as well as giving Scottish Football a chance to blossom without them.

I personally think Celtic are the more deluded of the 2, continuing to reckon they'll play in England. How many times do the EPL (backed by the English police force) need to say "we don't WANT the OF" before it sinks in?!

Sky will ony need to say "We want them" once.

bingo70
09-10-2009, 09:52 AM
How much higher?




We have to consider what happens in England because we compete against them for TV sponsorship, advertising revenue etc. Portugal, Sweden and Norway all have their own TV companies.

They are also on our doorstep and have easy access to our matches and our players.

Also, as far as I know, Sweden, Norway and Portugal are not trying to get rid of their biggest clubs.

If Rantic left, they'd take their supporters with them. We'd be left with a tiny proportion, so even comparison to Norway would be hugely unfavourable.

If that's what folk want, fair play. But the notion that somehow the SPL would prosper without 2/3rds of the footballing population is a leap too far for me.

For a start Easter Road would have been full, not sure about the other teams mentioned but i'm sure they would have been considerably higher.

Fair points regarding tv, sponsorship and advertising revenues and if Rantic do leave this is something that we'd need to tackle head on, just leaving it the same without the O.F would be extremely risky, my suggestion would be a move to summer football, i know this would conflict with world and european cups but other european nations manage it.

Phil MaGlass
09-10-2009, 09:52 AM
Anyhow, UEFA wouldn't let it happen, if they did they would open the floodgates for Belgian clubs applying to join the French league, Dutch clubs applying to join the German League, Portuguese clubs applying to join the Spanish League, i.e utter shambles!
The OF are our problem, and our problem they shall stay (unfortunately)
From what I remember Blatter has already said they would not stand in the way of a move to England but he would prefer it if they were to stay in Scotland and make the league stronger.
Instead of making it stronger they are making it weaker by buying all the prospective good players from our clubs,making themselves stronger and opposition weaker,they do not add abything to the Scottish game whatsoever.

Woody1985
09-10-2009, 10:07 AM
Never thought we would "all" be going south - that's bowled me over! Surely not? :confused:

I never said we will.

I think that if the rest of the SPL are worried about their futures then they would probably try and hang onto the coat tails of the OF and say that any package would include all of us.

That's pure speculation on my part. However, with the way that clubs have acted in the past they'd probably try to do something along those lines, IMO.

mikey1875
09-10-2009, 10:13 AM
put them into Blue square north, see how there fans like playing Hyde and Fleetwood Town every other week

plus they will never see champions league football again

**** them

silverhibee
09-10-2009, 10:15 AM
Let them go and take their grounds with them. There is no way that they should be allowed to play within Scotland if they have opted out of the Scottish system.

Also it should be made clear that there is no way back.

:top marks

basehibby
09-10-2009, 10:39 AM
I would back a campaign to drive this filth out of Scottish football. I won't have my club or any other club held to ransom by them. They have ruined the Scottish game for over 100 years and have gotten away with it. Time to fight back.

I am officially forming SFAOF (Scottish Football Against the Old Firm).

Who's in?

:agree: I'm In :thumbsup:

I am sick to death of the patronising and insulting drivel that continually spouts forth from these two and I would be fully in favour of driving them out of Scottish Football REGARDLESS of whether anyone else wants them or not.
It is my fervent hope that this would result in a doomsday (for them) scenario in that they would end up as two teams with no league to play in at all (save perhaps the west coast juniors). Result? they would both go into liquidation and therefore cease to exist as football clubs able to compete at a serious level - the rest of us would then all join together in rejoicing and have a massive party like at the end of Star Wars when they'd just gubbed the Death Star. :pray:

Hibbyradge
09-10-2009, 10:42 AM
Count me in

I honestly believe that they would come running back with their tails between their legs, I cant see all the glory hunters staying with them when they become the little fish in the big pond.

http://apps.facebook.com/causes/357633/68859956?m=6d54c0aa

How would that happen?

In 2007, in terms of turnover, Celtic and Rangers were the 7th and 8th richest clubs in the UK.

Man U 351.0
Chelsea 283.0
Arsenal 263.9
Liverpool 198.9
Spurs 153.1
Newcastle 129.4
Rangers 120.4
Celtic 111.8

(Source: Deloitte)

And that was without the obscene amounts of cash that the EPL receive from Sky.

They will have slipped in the last couple of years due to the emergence of Man City and the continuing Sky money, but someone said that Burnley's promotion to the EPL was worth £60m to them.

That was from the Championship, a league already many times richer than the SPL.

Small fish in a big pond? I don't think so.

davemcbain
09-10-2009, 10:47 AM
The only reason they're so dominant up here is because of their fan base and there's where their money comes from. Down in England size isn't everything because of all the extra money available to EVERYONE!

Stick Hibs Aberdeen and Hearts down in the Premiership with Celtic and Rangers and watch that current gap almost evaporate! Yeah, those two might take more fans to games but if the leage standings were based on fan numbers, Chelsea would be mid table mediocrity while Newcastle would be Champions League contenders!

Portsmouth, Wigan, Burnley, Fulham aren't that much bigger in terms of stadium size, than hibs or hearts, and 3 of those 4 are what you'd call established Premiership teams, the other team has 100% home record this season!

Hate to say it, but that is just plain wrong. England is about 20 years behind Scotland in their league set up, but are rapidly reaching the same scenario.

Does anyone seriously believe that any club other than Arsenal, Chelsea or Man U will win the EPL? Money talks in England too - it's just that the sums are a lot bigger. Liverpool are trying hard to bump up their international support and may be on the fringes of that group, but I'd be very surprised if theyre in contention come the end of the season.

The days of an outsider competing in either of the EPL or SPL are long gone.

For what it's worth I hope the uglies join and look forward to in ten years time watching them rot in mid conference mediocrity while those left in the SPL compete for the European money they no longer qualify for (which will more than replace lost tv revenue).

basehibby
09-10-2009, 10:49 AM
How much higher?




We have to consider what happens in England because we compete against them for TV sponsorship, advertising revenue etc. Portugal, Sweden and Norway all have their own TV companies.

They are also on our doorstep and have easy access to our matches and our players.

Also, as far as I know, Sweden, Norway and Portugal are not trying to get rid of their biggest clubs.

If Rantic left, they'd take their supporters with them. We'd be left with a tiny proportion, so even comparison to Norway would be hugely unfavourable.

If that's what folk want, fair play. But the notion that somehow the SPL would prosper without 2/3rds of the footballing population is a leap too far for me.

In terms of fans attending matches we're talking about half - ie
Rantic/Celgers - c 108,000 - the restbetween them - about the same (do the sums).

As others have mentioned, I could see the former dwindling significantly if/when they're struggling to aviod relegation from the EPL.
The latter could well increase significantly if the punters see their teams as in with a chance of getting in amongst the baubles.
All supposition of course but you have to admit this scenario is a strong possibility.

However, as mentioned above, I'd rather we just slung them out on their ear immediately in the hope that they'll just DIE!

Hibbyradge
09-10-2009, 10:59 AM
In terms of fans attending matches we're talking about half - ie
Rantic/Celgers - c 108,000 - the restbetween them - about the same (do the sums).



That applies to folk who go to games. I saw some research a while back which showed that more than 2/3rds of the population of Scotland support Rantic.

Many, many more people watch Rangers or Celtic every week than would watch Hibs v Hearts etc.



As others have mentioned, I could see the former dwindling significantly if/when they're struggling to aviod relegation from the EPL.



I think they'd sell out every week for the first few years. By then, they would be well boosted financially and relegation would not be a real threat.





The latter could well increase significantly if the punters see their teams as in with a chance of getting in amongst the baubles.


What would happen to our crowds if we were struggling against relegation as we have been very recently?

Or Hearts, Dundee United or Motherwell?




All supposition of course but you have to admit this scenario is a strong possibility.



The point is though, I don't think there is any possibility. I see it as a romantic fantasy, otherwise I'd support the idea.




However, as mentioned above, I'd rather we just slung them out on their ear immediately in the hope that they'll just DIE!

A nice thought. :greengrin

basehibby
09-10-2009, 11:05 AM
My particular thinking with this post was along the lines of “Why wait for them to do us in, let’s do them in – NOW”.

This is an excerpt from the SPL Manual regarding rules and regulations

2.4.2.2 Provided always that such a decision is ratified in accordance with the
procedures set out in Article 2.4.2.1 above, a Member or Associate Member, may
be expelled from the Association if that Member or Associate Member, as a
league, by its officers or other representatives:
...

(ii) behaves in such a way that the image of the Association is likely to be
brought into disrepute;
(iii) seriously fails in its obligations or causes or threatens to cause
serious disruption in the operation of the Association;

The fact that they are openly proclaiming that the SPL is something they no longer view to be worthwhile and they are leaving as soon as possible surely provides grounds for their expulsion –:rules: this is one option open to the other clubs in the SPL? If the SPL clubs chickened out, they could just punish the OF – assuming they wish to stay in the SPL – by relegating them to Division 3. This would ruin their sponsorship deals, and rule them out of Europe – the loss in cash would be immense. The other Scottish clubs would benefit - in the longer term - at the OF’s expense.

If they're going, we should get in first!

And, if the English don’t want, them as has been suggested here, well who cares!:partyhibb

:top marksA great proportion of their fans drag our game into disrepute with every biggoted breath they breathe - and it is also surely the case that their club's officers are doing the same by continually talking down the SPL and Scottish Football when it surely needs all the good publicity it can get.
The trouble is that not enough club chairmen seem to have the cajonies to see it through - it's a very short sighted opinion of course as they have clearly stated their intentions to jump ship at the first oportunity. Scottish football should plan for the future without them and make a point of punishing them for continually belittling our game and dragging it's reputation through the mud.
PS - as someone else pointed out, a condition of them moving to the EPL should also be that they move their stadiums there as well - otherwise they endanger the future of the national team and should be sued for every penny they have.

basehibby
09-10-2009, 11:09 AM
some research a while back which showed that more than 2/3rds of the population of Scotland support Rantic.



Depends what you mean by the word SUPPORT. I'd agree that you get many many ignorant erses that have never been to a football match in their lives who "support" the OF. It's not quite the same though IMO.

Expecting Rain
09-10-2009, 11:10 AM
They could leave tomorrow for all i care and take their refs and assistant refs with them!:grr:

basehibby
09-10-2009, 11:14 AM
I think they'd sell out every week for the first few years. By then, they would be well boosted financially and relegation would not be a real threat.


It didn't really work out that way for Leeds and Newcastle though - did it?

FWIW I would agree that either of the gruesome twosome would have a CHANCE of success in the EPL. But that's all - a chance.
They would have just as much chance of falling flat on their faces and getting relegated and a far greater chance of mid-tablemediocrity IMO - and I'd like to see where the aforementioned hordes of supporters would disappear to in that scenario - in fact scrub that - I wouldn't like to see cos I know the answer to be up their own erseholes.

basehibby
09-10-2009, 11:16 AM
What would happen to our crowds if we were struggling against relegation as we have been very recently?



That's a bit of a non-point as I suspect the answer is "exactly the same as last time" We're still here though.

hibs1875aye
09-10-2009, 11:23 AM
I would back a campaign to drive this filth out of Scottish football. I won't have my club or any other club held to ransom by them. They have ruined the Scottish game for over 100 years and have gotten away with it. Time to fight back.

I am officially forming SFAOF (Scottish Football Against the Old Firm).

Who's in?

Im in alright mate :thumbsup:

I can't see the old firms' departure ruining scottish fitba. There was a time when they WERENT the be all and end all in Scotland and the football still went on...its only over the last 20+ years they've strangled the game to the point where nobody can really expect to win anything.

They would lose fans/glory hunters from Scotland but would probably gain them down south tho. there's a lot of english folk following celtic and rangers in the same way a lot of us in Scotland follow English teams. That said, there would be some old firm fans who wouldnt on principle support a Scottish team effectively competing in england...as I said before, they arent ALL glory hunting biggots - just a lot of them :greengrin

Thats by the by tho, Id love a league where Hibs/Hearts/Aberdeen/Dundee Utd etc all have a chance of winning a league and 2 cups. Possibly Europe place (we'd lose the Champs League to start with) but so what....we'll never progress in that til we have some better players and more cash anyway so what to lose!

Get rid of those *******s and lets see the cabbage win the League for the first time in TOO many years :thumbsup:

basehibby
09-10-2009, 11:23 AM
The point is though, I don't think there is any possibility. I see it as a romantic fantasy, otherwise I'd support the idea.

According to the huns this "romantic fantasy" will become a reality within the next ten years.
I'm stating that the OF crowds would very likely decrease when they're starved of their usual diet of trophies and European Football. The opposite may well be true for the rest of the Scottish game as the hope of success goes from being a romantic fantasy to something realistically achievable.
Like I said, if the OF dream becomes a reality then I see the above scenario as being a strong possibility.

MB62
09-10-2009, 11:24 AM
To say Scottish football would not exist if the bigot brothers left is complete and utter rubbish IMO. Ok, it would have to change, once again the cloth would have to be cut accordingly and players wages would once again be hit, meaning we would probably rely on youth even more so than we already do, but it would exist, it may even flourish.

As for T.V. money, yesy, again there would be less but there would be a T.V. deal from somewhere, even if it was the remaining SPL teams own newly formed company.
This might not be as disasterous as some are making out though as instead of the clubs getting getting a small cut of a larger pot, they would get a larger cut from a smaller pot. At the moment, I believe the B.B. take 80% leaving the rest to share out 20%. Without them, the rest of the clubs would have far more equal share of whatever the deal is. It would not cover the loss probably but it wouldn't be a total loss of t.v. revenue.

It would also open up European qualification for more teams outwith the B.B.'s as they would no longer be there, this could be a BIG help financially.

A more closely competative league, which almost certainly would be the case, would lead to more interest, meaning hopefully increased gates, and also hopefully attract outside investment re T.V. and advertising.

I also believe Scottish football could prosper in the long run as O.F. fans become disillusioned with their team getting humped ona more frequent basis and all of a sudden there is no silverware or europe to be had at the end of a season. They are notorious for deserting the cause when things go wrong.
When the increased cost of watching their team in EPL or wherever, goes through the roof and they battle for survival in the league (Man Utd, Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea to name a few would consistantly cuff them), full houses at home will become a rarity.

I personally have no fears for Scottish Football when/IF they leave. We will all find our new level to play and survive on and it could be very interesting.
Unfortunately, too many club chairmen will not be willing to take the chance as they can't see past the finances that the visiting B.B bring 4 (?) times a season.

Bring it on for me OFGTF

hibs1875aye
09-10-2009, 11:24 AM
It didn't really work out that way for Leeds and Newcastle though - did it?

FWIW I would agree that either of the gruesome twosome would have a CHANCE of success in the EPL. But that's all - a chance.
They would have just as much chance of falling flat on their faces and getting relegated and a far greater chance of mid-tablemediocrity IMO - and I'd like to see where the aforementioned hordes of supporters would disappear to in that scenario - in fact scrub that - I wouldn't like to see cos I know the answer to be up their own erseholes.

They would have the same "chance" every team outwith Man Utd, Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal have...no chance :thumbsup:

Mary Hinge
09-10-2009, 11:31 AM
:top marksA great proportion of their fans drag our game into disrepute with every biggoted breath they breathe - and it is also surely the case that their club's officers are doing the same by continually talking down the SPL and Scottish Football when it surely needs all the good publicity it can get.
The trouble is that not enough club chairmen seem to have the cajonies to see it through - it's a very short sighted opinion of course as they have clearly stated their intentions to jump ship at the first oportunity. Scottish football should plan for the future without them and make a point of punishing them for continually belittling our game and dragging it's reputation through the mud.
PS - as someone else pointed out, a condition of them moving to the EPL should also be that they move their stadiums there as well - otherwise they endanger the future of the national team and should be sued for every penny they have.

A first class idea :agree: and once they've moved build a decent national stadium in the Stirling area with decent access for the whole country :greengrin

hibs1875aye
09-10-2009, 11:34 AM
A first class idea :agree: and once they've moved build a decent national stadium in the Stirling area with decent access for the whole country :greengrin

Better still, we'll have all internationals at Easter Road - let the SFA pay for the new east and the o/s mortgage for oor stands - sorted :thumbsup:
...also, nae mair maroon Scotland tops.:grr:

SouthsideHarp_Bhoy
09-10-2009, 12:23 PM
How would that happen?

In 2007, in terms of turnover, Celtic and Rangers were the 7th and 8th richest clubs in the UK.

Man U 351.0
Chelsea 283.0
Arsenal 263.9
Liverpool 198.9
Spurs 153.1
Newcastle 129.4
Rangers 120.4
Celtic 111.8

(Source: Deloitte)

And that was without the obscene amounts of cash that the EPL receive from Sky.

They will have slipped in the last couple of years due to the emergence of Man City and the continuing Sky money, but someone said that Burnley's promotion to the EPL was worth £60m to them.

That was from the Championship, a league already many times richer than the SPL.

Small fish in a big pond? I don't think so.


I dont think you are comparing like with like here though.

Celtic and Rangers a) are guarenteed European football (never mind Champions league) which Spurs and Newcastle are not, and Celtic & Rangers pull in htis money on the back of winning things - if you took away league cup winning prize money and champions league revenues where would they be in the league table then? Also, assuming both these figures are from last year, both Spurs and Newcastle had poor seasons, one was bottom of league after 8 matches (or something like that) and the other was relegated!

So the question is a) would notoriously fickle OF fans turn out in such huge numbers if their teams were in similar predicaments (and had to pay the same prices?) and if the 5th and 6th biggest cash generating teams can both struggle so badly, who is to say that huntic would do any better?

Im not saying they wouldnt do well in EPL, maybe they would - but maybe they wouldnt, and the only way to judge how big clubs they are in comparison to English clubs is to see how either one of them would cope with 20 years without winning a league or cup, intermittent at best European football, and relegation every now and then. Add to that humpings from the good teams when they are doing badly, being potentially drwn into a spiral of downward mobility (like Newcastle, Leeds, Sheffield Wed, Man City etc etc) and there are host of factors that can drive fans (and cash) away that they simply dont have to face at the moment.

Also the not unrealistic prospect that one of the two chums would be relegated at some point and they would lose that 'greatest fixture in the world'.

Maybe they would do well, but £60m doesnt mean any competitive advantage if everyone else gets that also.

As for Scottish football, it would be to re-adjust obviously, and money would shrink in the short term at least, but if Norway, Sweden, Denmark et al can produce viable, competitive leagues that every now and then throw up a european run and champions league contender (edit i didnt mean contender as in win it, i just meant a serial qualifier like Rosenborg, or a cheeky wee dark horse like Aalborg), then i dont see why Scotland cant.

Any maybe with the prospect of Hibs or anyone else getting into the Champions League and winning things regularly, there will be more chance of investment in the clubs?

blackpoolhibs
09-10-2009, 12:46 PM
Maybe Porto, Benfica and Sporting would like to join the Spanish league. They must be stifled in that diddy league of their own and would have access to Spanish TV money.

Then how about Ajax and PSV join the German league. Maybe even Rapid Vienna and Salzburg as well.

The thing is, if it starts in one country, where does it end? I'm sure Fifa/Uefa wouldn't allow it because it would set a precedent. I'm sure the OF know all the reasons why this is a non starter, which makes me wonder why they bother.

:top marks The chaiman of each and every club need to grow a set of bollox now, and resign from the SPL. They then need to set up a new system, with one body running it. They would then invite everyone to join, and have the top division of 16 teams, each playing each other twice. 2 points for a win, and one for a draw. The old firm could apply if they wanted, but if they dont want to join, they could find somewhere else.

Have a system thats fair for everyone, not this manufactured monopoly the old firm have engineered. If they want more competition, as they keep telling us, then surely they wouldnt object to this. If not, then let them piss off, England dont want them, most of Scotland dont want them. They need a wake up call, this would give them that.

J-C
09-10-2009, 02:05 PM
SPL needs to arrange a meeting asap and all the other chairmen vote to kick the OF out, how this would stand legally I haven't a clue but at least they'd know we don't need or want them any more.

Dashing Bob S
09-10-2009, 02:11 PM
We've had to listen to this tosh about the OF leaving Scotland for 20 years. We've been told 'within five years etc etc...' and we're still waiting.

It's a non story, wheeled out with relentless monotony by the tabloids and OF bosses to keep the bemused obese couch tatties who squeeze into replica strips and into one-horse pubs with something to talk about, and perhaps even entice some to buy ST's.

It's the modern non-sectarian equivalent of the old 'party songs', totally designed to stimulate whackoids who don't have a braincell to rub together. We shouldn't be indulging them by taking this guff seriously.

blackpoolhibs
09-10-2009, 02:52 PM
We've had to listen to this tosh about the OF leaving Scotland for 20 years. We've been told 'within five years etc etc...' and we're still waiting.



:agree: If they are that interested in moving, lets hope the rest of us start to get our own house in order now, and plan for that day when it comes.:faf: Get the whole thing organised for the teams that will be left, and start now.

JackRegan
09-10-2009, 04:00 PM
We've had to listen to this tosh about the OF leaving Scotland for 20 years. We've been told 'within five years etc etc...' and we're still waiting.

It's a non story, wheeled out with relentless monotony by the tabloids and OF bosses to keep the bemused obese couch tatties who squeeze into replica strips and into one-horse pubs with something to talk about, and perhaps even entice some to buy ST's.

It's the modern non-sectarian equivalent of the old 'party songs', totally designed to stimulate whackoids who don't have a braincell to rub together. We shouldn't be indulging them by taking this guff seriously.

To be fair Bob, Celtic have only been saying it for about 12 years. :greengrin

Other than that I agree wholeheartedly with the rest of your post. I reckon both Bain and Lawwell could sense that the lumpen proles in our midst were beginning to question the actions of our respective leaders.

This, however has wrong footed them and I will, again, have to put up with daftoids coming out with it when trying to enjoy a thought gathering libation.

PeeJay
09-10-2009, 04:58 PM
We've had to listen to this tosh about the OF leaving Scotland for 20 years. We've been told 'within five years etc etc...' and we're still waiting.

It's a non story, wheeled out with relentless monotony by the tabloids and OF bosses to keep the bemused obese couch tatties who squeeze into replica strips and into one-horse pubs with something to talk about, and perhaps even entice some to buy ST's.

It's the modern non-sectarian equivalent of the old 'party songs', totally designed to stimulate whackoids who don't have a braincell to rub together. We shouldn't be indulging them by taking this guff seriously.

There are moves afoot for the so-called big clubs in various leagues throughout Europe to join some sort of "super league" leaving their home leagues behind - down here in Germany, Beckenbauer and his Bayern Munich go on about it frequently - the top clubs in England see their future outside of the EPL. Real Madrid bought Beckham for his merchandising value, not his footballing skill; it's the same with AC Milan and his supposed return. These clubs all see their future on a global scale: they're allegience is not to fans but to businessmen. The story per se is certainly not "tosh" in that context, it's just a matter of particular clubs making the move when the financial situation permits it.

Some sort of a change is coming, and it may well be sooner rather than later. The whole point of my OP was to say we should turn the tables on the OF, face up to them for the damage they are doing to Scottish football now and get them out!

skipster7
09-10-2009, 05:47 PM
the short sightedness of the OF for god knows how many years has brought them to where they are today. for every tv/sponsorship deal the have claimed about 40/ 50 % at least of the cash because they insisted they were the biggest draws.
their failure so see that an even spread would have have seen a more competative league (with them probably still winning it) which in turn would be a better product to attract investors.
the greed of the OF knows no bounds and that has now come home to roost so imo the possibility of getting rid of this cancer fills me with joy.
OF:bye:

joe breezy
09-10-2009, 06:14 PM
I want them to be destroyed and to die completely.

In the same way I would want want to kill someone who harmed my family. I just wouldn't want them to be able to exist anymore.

I'm not sure of the best way to accomplish this?

Glasgow already has 2 fine football clubs neither of which pander to divisive nonsense around religion. Imagine a league with Partick Thistle and Queens Park as the sole Glasgow representatives? I'm sure there would be still a few Glasgow Embra banter songs but we certainly would remove a big bad boil from the backside of Scottish football.

oconnors_strip
09-10-2009, 06:17 PM
To say Scottish football would not exist if the bigot brothers left is complete and utter rubbish IMO. Ok, it would have to change, once again the cloth would have to be cut accordingly and players wages would once again be hit, meaning we would probably rely on youth even more so than we already do, but it would exist, it may even flourish.

As for T.V. money, yesy, again there would be less but there would be a T.V. deal from somewhere, even if it was the remaining SPL teams own newly formed company.
This might not be as disasterous as some are making out though as instead of the clubs getting getting a small cut of a larger pot, they would get a larger cut from a smaller pot. At the moment, I believe the B.B. take 80% leaving the rest to share out 20%. Without them, the rest of the clubs would have far more equal share of whatever the deal is. It would not cover the loss probably but it wouldn't be a total loss of t.v. revenue.

It would also open up European qualification for more teams outwith the B.B.'s as they would no longer be there, this could be a BIG help financially.

A more closely competative league, which almost certainly would be the case, would lead to more interest, meaning hopefully increased gates, and also hopefully attract outside investment re T.V. and advertising.

I also believe Scottish football could prosper in the long run as O.F. fans become disillusioned with their team getting humped ona more frequent basis and all of a sudden there is no silverware or europe to be had at the end of a season. They are notorious for deserting the cause when things go wrong.
When the increased cost of watching their team in EPL or wherever, goes through the roof and they battle for survival in the league (Man Utd, Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea to name a few would consistantly cuff them), full houses at home will become a rarity.

I personally have no fears for Scottish Football when/IF they leave. We will all find our new level to play and survive on and it could be very interesting.
Unfortunately, too many club chairmen will not be willing to take the chance as they can't see past the finances that the visiting B.B bring 4 (?) times a season.

Bring it on for me OFGTF

:top marks took the words right out of my mouth.

EuanH78
09-10-2009, 07:23 PM
Easy solution,

Hibs win the league, hard for them to argue the lack of competition is stifling them after that no?

Cancer's.

Barney McGrew
09-10-2009, 08:48 PM
How would that happen?

In 2007, in terms of turnover, Celtic and Rangers were the 7th and 8th richest clubs in the UK.

Man U 351.0
Chelsea 283.0
Arsenal 263.9
Liverpool 198.9
Spurs 153.1
Newcastle 129.4
Rangers 120.4
Celtic 111.8

(Source: Deloitte)

And that was without the obscene amounts of cash that the EPL receive from Sky.

They will have slipped in the last couple of years due to the emergence of Man City and the continuing Sky money, but someone said that Burnley's promotion to the EPL was worth £60m to them.

That was from the Championship, a league already many times richer than the SPL.

Small fish in a big pond? I don't think so.

And yet despite having all that money, they're skint and either can't afford to buy anyone (Rangers) or players that wouldn't make it in the Premiership (Celtic).

As others have pointed out, they'd lose out on the CL/EL cash they so desperately need with the associated sponsorship etc that comes along with it, and they'd also lose out on that as a draw to bring players in i.e. no European football. Yes, they would get increased TV revenues, but it's worth around £30m a year to an average EPL club IIRC (the £60m 'value' to the promoted clubs quoted includes the £30m parachute payment if they're relegated), so take away the £10-15m they get from Europe and practically guaranteed later stages of the domestic cup competitions and it's not actually that much of a difference.

Would having an extra £15-20m income mean they could sign and pay enough to players to make them a force that would challenge in the EPL? I don't think it would TBH.

heretoday
09-10-2009, 09:19 PM
I dont think it would - look what happened during our "Great Adventure" - attendances were up mainly because we were romping the league, admittedly after a dodgy start, and if Hibs, Hearts, Aberdeen, Arabs were challenging for the League Title, fans would be flocking to games

We were romping the league.

Rangers and Celtic were in that league.

That made the diff.

it wouldn't be the same if it was just Hearts, Aberdeen etc

basehibby
10-10-2009, 10:56 AM
We were romping the league.

Rangers and Celtic were in that league.

That made the diff.

it wouldn't be the same if it was just Hearts, Aberdeen etc

:confused: Is it just me or should you have just stayed in the pub last night?

OFGTF!

Hibbyradge
10-10-2009, 03:21 PM
. At the moment, I believe the B.B. take 80% leaving the rest to share out 20%.




Not so, Mike.

Revenues received by the SPL, from TV and other sources, are pooled and split 48% equally and 52% by league position.

In total, the winners get 17%, second gets 13%, third gets 9.5%. Then it goes down 5% per place to last place who receive 4.5%.

PM me your email address and I'll forward you the information I received from the SPL.

Hibbyradge
10-10-2009, 03:23 PM
I dont think it would - look what happened during our "Great Adventure" - attendances were up mainly because we were romping the league, admittedly after a dodgy start, and if Hibs, Hearts, Aberdeen, Arabs were challenging for the League Title, fans would be flocking to games

This is a myth.

We only exceeded 10000 on 4 occasions that whole season and we didn't reach 15000.

IWasThere2016
10-10-2009, 03:27 PM
This is a myth.

We only exceeded 10000 on 4 occasions that whole season and we didn't reach 15000.

But yet you think if we re-do the East oor fans will flock to ER :confused:

Hibbyradge
10-10-2009, 03:28 PM
And yet despite having all that money, they're skint and either can't afford to buy anyone (Rangers) or players that wouldn't make it in the Premiership (Celtic).

As others have pointed out, they'd lose out on the CL/EL cash they so desperately need with the associated sponsorship etc that comes along with it, and they'd also lose out on that as a draw to bring players in i.e. no European football. Yes, they would get increased TV revenues, but it's worth around £30m a year to an average EPL club IIRC (the £60m 'value' to the promoted clubs quoted includes the £30m parachute payment if they're relegated), so take away the £10-15m they get from Europe and practically guaranteed later stages of the domestic cup competitions and it's not actually that much of a difference.

Would having an extra £15-20m income mean they could sign and pay enough to players to make them a force that would challenge in the EPL? I don't think it would TBH.

The average TV money per EPL club is £45m.

Hibbyradge
10-10-2009, 03:30 PM
But yet you think if we re-do the East oor fans will flock to ER :confused:

WTF has that got to do with the Old Firm?

No, I don't think fans will "flock" to ER.

I do think attendances will increase though.

IWasThere2016
10-10-2009, 03:30 PM
WTF has that got to do with the Old Firm?

No, I don't think fans will "flock" to ER.

I do think attendances will increase though.

So a new stand will attract more fans to ER than a competitive non-OF league?

Hibbyradge
10-10-2009, 03:34 PM
So a new stand will attract more fans to ER than a competitive non-OF league?

What a strange argument.

The two things are entirely separate.

In current circumstances, a new stand will increase attendances.

vahibbie
10-10-2009, 04:05 PM
They would have the same "chance" every team outwith Man Utd, Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal have...no chance :thumbsup:

:agree:
Plus they would use all there new found income paying way over the top salaries to not quite world class players. Can you really see the top flight world stars opting to play in Glasgow. Newcastle couldn't attract them can't see either of the OF doing it. They wil spend money, not make it and their glory hunting fans will desert them in droves.

Barney McGrew
10-10-2009, 04:27 PM
The average TV money per EPL club is £45m.

I don't think that's right.

In season 2007-08, which was the first year of the EPL's new three year deal, only the top four of Man United, Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool earned over £45m from TV revenue. I'm assuming that is the same for the other two years.

Each EPL team gets £22.8m as a kick off, then there's a bonus of between £14.1m and £720k depending on league placing. The remainder is based on how many matches are shown (with Man Utd on 25 making the most on £12.1m). There's a guaranteed minimum payout even if you're not on TV of £5.6m.

So the minimum money they'd get on the current deal is £29.1m, and the average in the high £30m's. Man Utd earned the most on £49.3m.

There's also an acceptance that the next renewal will not net the EPL anywhere near as much revenue, which would reduce these amounts further, but obviously at this stage there's no way to know that for sure.

Hibbyradge
10-10-2009, 06:00 PM
I don't think that's right.

In season 2007-08, which was the first year of the EPL's new three year deal, only the top four of Man United, Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool earned over £45m from TV revenue. I'm assuming that is the same for the other two years.

Each EPL team gets £22.8m as a kick off, then there's a bonus of between £14.1m and £720k depending on league placing. The remainder is based on how many matches are shown (with Man Utd on 25 making the most on £12.1m). There's a guaranteed minimum payout even if you're not on TV of £5.6m.

So the minimum money they'd get on the current deal is £29.1m, and the average in the high £30m's. Man Utd earned the most on £49.3m.

There's also an acceptance that the next renewal will not net the EPL anywhere near as much revenue, which would reduce these amounts further, but obviously at this stage there's no way to know that for sure.

"The total raised from these deals is more than £2.7 billion, giving Premier League clubs an average media income from league games of £45 million a year from 2007 to 2010. They also receive smaller amounts from media rights for the domestic cups and in some cases substantial amounts from media rights for European matches."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premier_League#Finances :dunno:

Barney McGrew
10-10-2009, 06:16 PM
"The total raised from these deals is more than £2.7 billion, giving Premier League clubs an average media income from league games of £45 million a year from 2007 to 2010. They also receive smaller amounts from media rights for the domestic cups and in some cases substantial amounts from media rights for European matches."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premier_League#Finances :dunno:

I think that all they've done on Wiki is assumed that the £2.7 billion goes in total to the clubs, and have split it that way (£2.7 billion split over three years then split between the 20 clubs gives a £45m average)

There's other money comes out before it goes to the clubs - £125m a year is taken out of the pot to go to the Football League, charities and good causes for example.

From here (http://soccerlens.com/20072008-premier-league-tv-revenue/7415/)

brydekirk
10-10-2009, 06:18 PM
they have no money to buy anymore hibs players, they are panicing at the thought of the famous hibees taking over . FACT end of. :thumbsup:

Woody1985
10-10-2009, 07:10 PM
keekaboo[/B]]
Maybe Porto, Benfica and Sporting would like to join the Spanish league. They must be stifled in that diddy league of their own and would have access to Spanish TV money.

Then how about Ajax and PSV join the German league. Maybe even Rapid Vienna and Salzburg as well.

The thing is, if it starts in one country, where does it end? I'm sure Fifa/Uefa wouldn't allow it because it would set a precedent. I'm sure the OF know all the reasons why this is a non starter, which makes me wonder why they bother.


I agree that they'd have to draw a line. I think the most recent comments from them are that they would have no objection to them moving.

They would then be able to press us to play as Team GB full time. I think that is part of their agenda.

That would also be the reason for blocking others from moving.

IWasThere2016
10-10-2009, 08:25 PM
What a strange argument.

The two things are entirely separate.

In current circumstances, a new stand will increase attendances.

Sorry Dave - that is absolute pish IMHO. The two main factors in getting more fans to ER are:

a) playing good football; and

b) challenging for honours (made easier by no OF)

A comfy seat comes a long long way behind in the priorities.

OFGTF!

HibbyAndy
10-10-2009, 09:25 PM
What a strange argument.

The two things are entirely separate.

In current circumstances, a new stand will increase attendances.


What a crock of shight that is? you think by building a new East stand the attendances will increase?.


Ill head along ER way IF the the team on the park are doing the business, NOT what the new stand looks/feels like.

Dr What If?
10-10-2009, 10:08 PM
What a crock of shight that is? you think by building a new East stand the attendances will increase?.


Ill head along ER way IF the the team on the park are doing the business, NOT what the new stand looks/feels like.

This debate has really been answered, the club will not build the stand until ALL the cash is in place thus not adding to the debt burden but I do disagree with your stance. This article suggests better facilities increase attendances quite sharply. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6944796.stm
Personally, I love Hibs deeply but do get discouraged from going because I cannot justify the cost of the gate price for the East stand. Last season I only went to 5 games and each time was annoyed at paying for seat where I could only see part of the pitch. Give me a new stand with better facilities and I would gladly part with my money more often.

Hibbyradge
11-10-2009, 12:07 AM
What a crock of shight that is? you think by building a new East stand the attendances will increase?.


Ill head along ER way IF the the team on the park are doing the business, NOT what the new stand looks/feels like.

Better facilities will attract more people.

Think about the opposite.

Hibbyradge
11-10-2009, 12:09 AM
Sorry Dave - that is absolute pish IMHO. The two main factors in getting more fans to ER are:

a) playing good football; and

b) challenging for honours (made easier by no OF)

A comfy seat comes a long long way behind in the priorities.

OFGTF!

The two things are entirely separate.

Under current circumstances, a new stand will increase attendances.

Good football and the possibility of success will also do that, probably more so.

JohnnyHibby
11-10-2009, 09:58 AM
Be delighted if the OF went south.

But if they were to go South would not 2 of the english league/premier league sides not have to be demoted to allow them in?.......Even under the Bolton Chairmans plan 2 English clubs would lose out.
So would they vote on that?

Is that still the case and it was several years ago it was mentioned can we honestly see 2 clubs giving up their league status and all that money if they happen to be higher in the league...eg a premier league club or a championship side that has the chance to get to the premiership and all that money?

Cannot see the police being to keen either, unless away fans are banned.
Been south a lot on business years ago and was talkining to a Notts Foresst supporter who's son happened to be in Barcelona when Celtic were playing them. His son was on the underground and said he was shocked at the songs from the Celtic fans and did not realise they were as bigoted as that.

Anyway who cares if they go they would not care if we went to the wall so lets just say we have no objection.........bye:bye:

blackpoolhibs
11-10-2009, 10:03 AM
Every couple of years we get the same thing from either celtic or rangers. Its not going to happen, turkeys do not vete for xmas.

Barney McGrew
11-10-2009, 10:08 AM
Good piece by Gordon Waddell in the Sunday Mail about them going

http://www.sundaymail.co.uk/opinion/columnists/gordon-waddell/2009/10/11/it-will-be-win-win-of-old-firm-head-south-78057-21739059/

Hibbyradge
11-10-2009, 10:41 AM
Good piece by Gordon Waddell in the Sunday Mail about them going

http://www.sundaymail.co.uk/opinion/columnists/gordon-waddell/2009/10/11/it-will-be-win-win-of-old-firm-head-south-78057-21739059/

It is a good article, and I agree with a lot of what he says.

Particularly when he says "they (the remaining SPL clubs) must do it on a budget".

To me, it's a fanciful idea that football would somehow improve by slashing wages and increasing the number of small clubs in the league.

How many of our current squad would be with us, if salaries were halved?

Would we have ever seen the likes of George Best or Frank Sauzee playing for Hibs?

I believe that if/when Rantic leave, the quality of player in the SPL will inevitably decline and therefore the standard of football on offer will sink even lower than it currently is.

The league may well become more competitive. Just like the Blue Square Premier.

NAE NOOKIE
11-10-2009, 11:14 AM
Been a couple of posters on here who have brought up the SPL rules with regard to the part about bringing the league into disrepute.

There can be no doubt that the OF and especially celtic repeatedly making it clear in the media that they want to go south is bringing the SPL into disrepute and causing damage to the product. Why would a TV company or sponsor want to invest in a league where the two biggest clubs admit publicly that they think it is rubbish and holds them back.

Now is the time for the SPL to send a shot across their bows by giving them a public censure with the threat of a points deduction if they continue. Not to mention a fax to UEFA asking for a censure of the EPL for allowing the chairman of a member club to in effect 'tap up' two clubs from a different country.

A 10 point deduction at the start of the following season should help to give the OF the competative set up they are looking for.

By all means the OF have the right to have their own idea of where their future should be, but in private. Not in public where it devalues Scottish football.

But will the pussies who run the SPL have the courage to do it ?

blackpoolhibs
11-10-2009, 11:17 AM
Been a couple of posters on here who have brought up the SPL rules with regard to the part about bringing the league into disrepute.

There can be no doubt that the OF and especially celtic repeatedly making it clear in the media that they want to go south is bringing the SPL into disrepute and causing damage to the product. Why would a TV company or sponsor want to invest in a league where the two biggest clubs admit publicly that they think it is rubbish and holds them back.

Now is the time for the SPL to send a shot across their bows by giving them a public censure with the threat of a points deduction if they continue. Not to mention a fax to UEFA asking for a censure of the EPL for allowing the chairman of a member club to in effect 'tap up' two clubs from a different country.

A 10 point deduction at the start of the following season should help to give the OF the competative set up they are looking for.

By all means the OF have the right to have their own idea of where their future should be, but in private. Not in public where it devalues Scottish football.

But will the pussies who run the SPL have the courage to do it ?

:top marks

Woody1985
11-10-2009, 12:39 PM
Been a couple of posters on here who have brought up the SPL rules with regard to the part about bringing the league into disrepute.

There can be no doubt that the OF and especially celtic repeatedly making it clear in the media that they want to go south is bringing the SPL into disrepute and causing damage to the product. Why would a TV company or sponsor want to invest in a league where the two biggest clubs admit publicly that they think it is rubbish and holds them back.

Now is the time for the SPL to send a shot across their bows by giving them a public censure with the threat of a points deduction if they continue. Not to mention a fax to UEFA asking for a censure of the EPL for allowing the chairman of a member club to in effect 'tap up' two clubs from a different country.

A 10 point deduction at the start of the following season should help to give the OF the competative set up they are looking for.

By all means the OF have the right to have their own idea of where their future should be, but in private. Not in public where it devalues Scottish football.

But will the pussies who run the SPL have the courage to do it ?

Good well thoughtout post. However, the answer to your question is no(I'm sure you were aware of that!).

basehibby
11-10-2009, 12:52 PM
Been a couple of posters on here who have brought up the SPL rules with regard to the part about bringing the league into disrepute.

There can be no doubt that the OF and especially celtic repeatedly making it clear in the media that they want to go south is bringing the SPL into disrepute and causing damage to the product. Why would a TV company or sponsor want to invest in a league where the two biggest clubs admit publicly that they think it is rubbish and holds them back.

Now is the time for the SPL to send a shot across their bows by giving them a public censure with the threat of a points deduction if they continue. Not to mention a fax to UEFA asking for a censure of the EPL for allowing the chairman of a member club to in effect 'tap up' two clubs from a different country.

A 10 point deduction at the start of the following season should help to give the OF the competative set up they are looking for.

By all means the OF have the right to have their own idea of where their future should be, but in private. Not in public where it devalues Scottish football.

But will the pussies who run the SPL have the courage to do it ?

It's a very good point and one which seems to have slipped under the radar so far - I think it would be worthwhile for anyone that agrees with this point to give it wider exposure via other message boards/phone ins/papers/pub conversations etc. - you never know, if it gains a foothold in the public perception something might even come of it - there's no doubt in my mind that the OF have a case to answer in this respect and if some action is taken then it might just make them think twice in future before boring us all to death with their self-piteous drivel.

Hibbyradge
11-10-2009, 12:59 PM
Been a couple of posters on here who have brought up the SPL rules with regard to the part about bringing the league into disrepute.

There can be no doubt that the OF and especially celtic repeatedly making it clear in the media that they want to go south is bringing the SPL into disrepute and causing damage to the product. Why would a TV company or sponsor want to invest in a league where the two biggest clubs admit publicly that they think it is rubbish and holds them back.

Now is the time for the SPL to send a shot across their bows by giving them a public censure with the threat of a points deduction if they continue. Not to mention a fax to UEFA asking for a censure of the EPL for allowing the chairman of a member club to in effect 'tap up' two clubs from a different country.

A 10 point deduction at the start of the following season should help to give the OF the competative set up they are looking for.

By all means the OF have the right to have their own idea of where their future should be, but in private. Not in public where it devalues Scottish football.

But will the pussies who run the SPL have the courage to do it ?

Good points.

Dashing Bob S
11-10-2009, 01:22 PM
The two things are entirely separate.

Under current circumstances, a new stand will increase attendances.

Good football and the possibility of success will also do that, probably more so.

It's been established more and more that better facilities, will, other things being equal, attract more supporters, particularly younger fans and families. It's not the only reason the youth of Scotland are turning in bigger numbers to the OF, but it's a contributory factor: they are the only clubs in Scotland who are seen as having proper stadiums. The others are viewed as not 'real' or completed grounds, a mess of different shaped stands from different eras or a hybrid of proper stadia and the 'grounds' of yesteryear.

Personally, it doesn't matter a tinker's cuss to a hardy old crust like myself what the condition of the ground is, although if I take the kids, I can see them looking around (particularly towards the east) as if they've been dumped in the proximity of some Calcutta slum. There's only so often you can bore them to death with the 'when I was your age...' nonsense before you accept that the experience at ER is not the reality of their lives, or how they've come to perceive what modern football is.

What fans of my generation think about all this isn't really that important. In 60 years none of us will be around or going to any football stadiums. I'd like to think that there will still be a Hibernian Football Club then, but that will only be the case if we move with the times and offer subsequent current generations of supporters the minimum standards they expect.

Brizo
11-10-2009, 02:06 PM
The two things are entirely separate.

Under current circumstances, a new stand will increase attendances.

Good football and the possibility of success will also do that, probably more so.

I remember when the family section was the old seated enclosure and when it was replaced by the Famous Five family section there was a huge increase in the number of kids attending and mums now coming along where previously it had been very much fathers and sons. When the new West Stand was built it attracted a lot more women and girls than the old main stand had. The new improved facilities attracted a new family and female audience but im not convinced that theres more of that new audience out there to tap into. I may be wrong but seems theres always spaces in both those stands so its not as if theres more demand than supply for the more salubrious parts of the stadium. Are there thousands more women , kids and armchair fans of Hibs and other teams just waiting for a new East Stand to be built before they sign up for the Hibs experience ? Im not convinced.

When a new East Stands built it will be the on field product that fills it , not shiny new bogs and an absence of interesting cigarettes.

HibbyAndy
11-10-2009, 03:11 PM
I remember when the family section was the old seated enclosure and when it was replaced by the Famous Five family section there was a huge increase in the number of kids attending and mums now coming along where previously it had been very much fathers and sons. When the new West Stand was built it attracted a lot more women and girls than the old main stand had. The new improved facilities attracted a new family and female audience but im not convinced that theres more of that new audience out there to tap into. I may be wrong but seems theres always spaces in both those stands so its not as if theres more demand than supply for the more salubrious parts of the stadium. Are there thousands more women , kids and armchair fans of Hibs and other teams just waiting for a new East Stand to be built before they sign up for the Hibs experience ? Im not convinced.

When a new East Stands built it will be the on field product that fills it , not shiny new bogs and an absence of interesting cigarettes.

Those would be my thoughts aswell.

Hibbyradge
11-10-2009, 03:54 PM
Of course, the football on offer, the opponents, and the success of the team, are the most significant factors which influence attendances.

However, for many (most?) people, a day at the football is more than just watching the game.

Being with your mates, having a beer and being able to watch the game with a decent view and in relative comfort all play their part.

I don't go to Tannadice as often as I used to because that stand is so cramped.

I pay £50 for Silver tickets to watch Scotland at Hampden because the seats are fantastically positioned and we have access to the stadium bars before and after the games.

The product is enhanced by the provision of good facilities. A better product attracts more people.

I'd be willing to bet, that when the new East is built, Hibs will sell a record number of season tickets.

Many folk who pay walk up at the moment, and choose which games to go to, will want to secure their shiny new, comfortable seat.

And occasional attendees, will attend more often.

danofire
11-10-2009, 04:06 PM
lets get rid of the OF now - check out my online petition I set up today.

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/oldfirmlessSPL/

:bye::bye::bye::bye::bye::bye::bye:

basehibby
11-10-2009, 05:10 PM
lets get rid of the OF now - check out my online petition I set up today.

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/oldfirmlessSPL/

:bye::bye::bye::bye::bye::bye::bye:

Signed :thumbsup:

NAE NOOKIE
11-10-2009, 07:05 PM
Signed

:thumbsup:

Barney McGrew
12-10-2009, 07:19 AM
I don't usually have a lot of time for Mark McGhee, but I've got to admit to having a chuckle about the comments he made when asked about the whole OF to England thing:

"Celtic talking publicly about this is rude to the rest of us.
What are the criteria for being included in the application to defect? Clearly being champions is not one, so Aberdeen can tick that box. Perhaps winning a European trophy? Well, Aberdeen were the last Scottish team to do that.

Aberdeen don't attract the 60,000 Celtic do, but we'd build an out-of-town stadium that would make Celtic's hemmed-in Parkhead seem antiquated."

:tee hee:

IWasThere2016
12-10-2009, 07:42 AM
Good piece by Gordon Waddell in the Sunday Mail about them going

http://www.sundaymail.co.uk/opinion/columnists/gordon-waddell/2009/10/11/it-will-be-win-win-of-old-firm-head-south-78057-21739059/

I haven't read it but will later. Does GW compare the loss of TV revenue vs. increased gates?

IWasThere2016
12-10-2009, 07:46 AM
The two things are entirely separate.

Under current circumstances, a new stand will increase attendances.

Good football and the possibility of success will also do that, probably more so.

What's wrong with the other 2/3 stands? A what if - given we are trading at an underlying loss - players sales don't bridge the finances .. more debt? Or, given RP's comments, no new East?

I cannae understand why RP doesnae just borrow if there's gonna be more fans :rolleyes:

Finally, did our attendances rise after the buidling of the West and South stands?

Barney McGrew
12-10-2009, 08:20 AM
I haven't read it but will later. Does GW compare the loss of TV revenue vs. increased gates?

It's more about their increased TV revenue vs their decreasing gates TBH.

Should add to the wake up calls for the OF supporters who think that as soon as they go down there they'd be automatically challenging for the title.

A few years of mid table finishes at best would see the gates dwindle and the sponsorship income do the same.

Let's face it, OF fans don't go to see their team, they go to see their team winning. And when they don't, they'll vote with their feet just like they did in the 80's when they were both rank and Aberdeen were winning everything.

Hibbyradge
12-10-2009, 09:01 AM
What's wrong with the other 2/3 stands? A what if - given we are trading at an underlying loss - players sales don't bridge the finances .. more debt? Or, given RP's comments, no new East?

I cannae understand why RP doesnae just borrow if there's gonna be more fans :rolleyes:

Finally, did our attendances rise after the buidling of the West and South stands?

Yes. Our season ticket sales increased dramatically.

Also, see DBS's erudite post above.

However, I don't know why you've got such a bee in your bonnet about this, Gary.

There's nothing you or I can do about the East being built or not, so why pick an argument about it on a thread that's supposed to be about Rantic leaving the SPL?

My view is that better facilities attract more people. You think they don't.

Ok. I hear you.

erskine-hibby
12-10-2009, 08:54 PM
How about 10 days??
If the Of feel that they are being hemmed in by The SPL then why not let them go....Now!
For far too long we have been told that these pair have been propping up Scottish football and without them it will all come crashing down. I say they are nothing but parasites that have been sucking away all the blood from the Scottish game and it is about time we burned these leeches off.
I am pretty sure that if they were cut loose from the yolk that is the SPL then they would be found floundering in the wilderness with no league to play in. No one in their right minds are going to just say " sorry to hear what's happened, here come join our league" especially the EPL. How many times has this been mooted down there? How many times has it been received with less than a look-warm reception? They are not wanted, or needed there and indeed they are not wanted or needed here either.

OFGTF

Moulin Yarns
13-10-2009, 05:14 AM
IIRC the collective resignation of the other SPL clubs a few years ago required two years notice. So we can expect an announcement from the uglies sometime in the next eight years.

hibhib7
13-10-2009, 07:18 AM
How about 10 days??
If the Of feel that they are being hemmed in by The SPL then why not let them go....Now!
For far too long we have been told that these pair have been propping up Scottish football and without them it will all come crashing down. I say they are nothing but parasites that have been sucking away all the blood from the Scottish game and it is about time we burned these leeches off.
I am pretty sure that if they were cut loose from the yolk that is the SPL then they would be found floundering in the wilderness with no league to play in. No one in their right minds are going to just say " sorry to hear what's happened, here come join our league" especially the EPL. How many times has this been mooted down there? How many times has it been received with less than a look-warm reception? They are not wanted, or needed there and indeed they are not wanted or needed here either.

OFGTFLet them go! Those of us with long memories know that when things aren't going well their attendances plummet. Go back to when either one or the other had the league sewn up early and check the other's attendances at the end of the season. If they go to England they will start off getting huge gates - but wait till they start losing and can't win trophies or qualify for Europe.

One other thing: if they leave we should tell them in no uncertain terms that they won't be permitted to enter any other teams in any of our leagues. Once they have decided to desert Scotland all their teams can play down south.

IWasThere2016
13-10-2009, 07:55 AM
Yes. Our season ticket sales increased dramatically.Also, see DBS's erudite post above.

However, I don't know why you've got such a bee in your bonnet about this, Gary.

There's nothing you or I can do about the East being built or not, so why pick an argument about it on a thread that's supposed to be about Rantic leaving the SPL?

My view is that better facilities attract more people. You think they don't.

Ok. I hear you.

I'll need proof of that, D :wink: It couldn't have happened when we were playing pash. IIRC, both were built under McLeish's tenure and days of Le God, Latapy etc.. Blobby would've emptied the place :cool2:

Viva_Palmeiras
13-10-2009, 08:40 AM
Apologies if this has been covered elsewhere...

By their actions have the OF not effectively talked down our game (for potential longterm partners/sponsors of respective clubs and any TV/broadcasting/internet deals).

Was this retribution for going with SKY last time round?

The SPL should haul the OF in and reign them in. The annual discussion has gone on long enough. The language has changed this year as the OF feel the pinch and perhaps see this as their last chance so have gone for broke. They are also playing a game of brinkmanship with the odds stacked in their favour (as the recession hits home and they are linked to a big chunk of the revenue).

Disgusting behaviour that for the credibilty of those supposedly in charge needs to be addressed. This cannot be allowed to continue without consequence. The OF should put up our shut up.

We're either in it together or we are not. The OF have made their choice it seems why should we have to settle for their cast offs?

If this invitation thing comes off then a number of governing bodies should just give up as they are worthless.

MacBean
13-10-2009, 08:46 AM
What really bugs me about this whole thing, is that if Hibs/hearts/Sheep/Arabs had stated they want to play in, say the championship/league 1, then there would be some sort of punishment, they would be shamed and the SFA/SPL would punish them with a big *ss fine!

hibhib7
13-10-2009, 08:47 AM
I imagine the citizens of Manchester, for one, would be delighted to see the unwashed hordes descending on their city again to wreak havoc.

blackpoolhibs
13-10-2009, 09:28 AM
It is a good article, and I agree with a lot of what he says.

Particularly when he says "they (the remaining SPL clubs) must do it on a budget".

To me, it's a fanciful idea that football would somehow improve by slashing wages and increasing the number of small clubs in the league.

How many of our current squad would be with us, if salaries were halved?

Would we have ever seen the likes of George Best or Frank Sauzee playing for Hibs?

I believe that if/when Rantic leave, the quality of player in the SPL will inevitably decline and therefore the standard of football on offer will sink even lower than it currently is.

The league may well become more competitive. Just like the Blue Square Premier.

When i lived down south, George best signed for Dunstable town.:wink:

Joe Baker II
13-10-2009, 01:20 PM
Been a couple of posters on here who have brought up the SPL rules with regard to the part about bringing the league into disrepute.

There can be no doubt that the OF and especially celtic repeatedly making it clear in the media that they want to go south is bringing the SPL into disrepute and causing damage to the product. Why would a TV company or sponsor want to invest in a league where the two biggest clubs admit publicly that they think it is rubbish and holds them back.

Now is the time for the SPL to send a shot across their bows by giving them a public censure with the threat of a points deduction if they continue. Not to mention a fax to UEFA asking for a censure of the EPL for allowing the chairman of a member club to in effect 'tap up' two clubs from a different country.

A 10 point deduction at the start of the following season should help to give the OF the competative set up they are looking for.

By all means the OF have the right to have their own idea of where their future should be, but in private. Not in public where it devalues Scottish football.

But will the pussies who run the SPL have the courage to do it ?

good post, agree would be better if discussions conducted privately and good point Premiership censorship.

Joe Baker II
13-10-2009, 01:22 PM
I imagine the citizens of Manchester, for one, would be delighted to see the unwashed hordes descending on their city again to wreak havoc.

Remember that Manchester United supporters smashed up pubs in Glasgow when they player Rangers in 2003 and that Council in Manchester has made clear Rnagers fans are welcome back and Celtic were praised when they played there last year.

There are far better reasons for being concerned about OF leaving Scottish League than those expressed in the somewhat sanctimonious post above, so why not focus on these.