Where are kids getting this crap from...

[Toaods]

http://news.uk.msn.com/uk/article.aspx?cp-documentid=150064576


drugs? Bebo? Facebook? Music?


Why are so many of them throwing their life away?

they seem to think theres something good in it, but for who?

All it does is cause grief to their family and friends(well some of them).

[shamo9]

http://news.uk.msn.com/uk/article.aspx?cp-documentid=150064576


drugs? Bebo? Facebook? Music?


Why are so many of them throwing their life away?

they seem to think theres something good in it, but for who?

All it does is cause grief to their family and friends(well some of them).

You make it sound like suicide is a recent phenomena. Suicide in Britain is at it's lowest ever level (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6083702.stm), it has nothing to do with modern devices, they merely distract from the problems that reign deeper within.

Everyone is different. Everyone copes with things differently. Suicide is a different way of coping.

Life sucks sometimes (unfortunately).

[GlesgaeHibby]

You make it sound like suicide is a recent phenomena. Suicide in Britain is at it's lowest ever level (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6083702.stm), it has nothing to do with modern devices, they merely distract from the problems that reign deeper within.

Everyone is different. Everyone copes with things differently. Suicide is a different way of coping.

Life sucks sometimes (unfortunately).

This case, though is absolutely tragic. Two completely avoidable and needless deaths of children.

Tragic.

[Jay]

You make it sound like suicide is a recent phenomena. Suicide in Britain is at it's lowest ever level (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6083702.stm), it has nothing to do with modern devices, they merely distract from the problems that reign deeper within.

Everyone is different. Everyone copes with things differently. Suicide is a different way of coping.

Life sucks sometimes (unfortunately).

I think what Toaods is gettting at is the fact it is TWo young girls doing it TOGETHER. Suicide pacts in young girls/boys must be a fairly new thing. I certainly dont remember stories like this when I was a youngster.
I cant even begin to imagine the conversations they had before it.

[Hibs Class]

You make it sound like suicide is a recent phenomena. Suicide in Britain is at it's lowest ever level (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6083702.stm), it has nothing to do with modern devices, they merely distract from the problems that reign deeper within.

Everyone is different. Everyone copes with things differently. Suicide is a different way of coping.

Life sucks sometimes (unfortunately).

Suicide is definitely not a way of coping. Suicide is often described as a permanent "solution" to what is almost always a temporary problem, and that would certainly seem true in this tragic case.

[GlesgaeHibby]

Suicide is definitely not a way of coping. Suicide is often described as a permanent "solution" to what is almost always a temporary problem, and that would certainly seem true in this tragic case.

:agree: Spot on.

[Phil D. Rolls]

http://news.uk.msn.com/uk/article.aspx?cp-documentid=150064576


drugs? Bebo? Facebook? Music?


Why are so many of them throwing their life away?

they seem to think theres something good in it, but for who?

All it does is cause grief to their family and friends(well some of them).

There's a whole raft of stuff written on why people commit suicide. Every case is unique, and we can't stand in judgement, or understand without knowing all the facts.

You can speculate why they do it, some do it for attention, some are deeply depressed and living is unbearably painful for them, some don't fully understand the consequences.

I agree that the aftermath must be agonising for the relatives. They have received a life sentence, and will always question why it happened, and what they could have done differently.


Suicide is definitely not a way of coping. Suicide is often described as a permanent "solution" to what is almost always a temporary problem, and that would certainly seem true in this tragic case.


This case, though is absolutely tragic. Two completely avoidable and needless deaths of children.

Tragic.

We know so little about these two girls that I think it is almost voyeuristic to speculate, as to why they did it, or whether it could have been avoided.


I think what Toaods is gettting at is the fact it is TWo young girls doing it TOGETHER. Suicide pacts in young girls/boys must be a fairly new thing. I certainly dont remember stories like this when I was a youngster.
I cant even begin to imagine the conversations they had before it.

From what I've read, on this very upsetting subject, it is quite common for pacts to be formed and copycat suicides. I would think it is harder to get out of the final act with someone else there, they will reinforce each other's resolve.

[Toaods]

I think what Toaods is gettting at is the fact it is TWo young girls doing it TOGETHER. Suicide pacts in young girls/boys must be a fairly new thing. I certainly dont remember stories like this when I was a youngster.
I cant even begin to imagine the conversations they had before it.


:agree:


I would think it is harder to get out of the final act with someone else there, they will reinforce each other's resolve.

fair point though I personally would replace resolve with waywardness.

[Jay]

From what I've read, on this very upsetting subject, it is quite common for pacts to be formed and copycat suicides. I would think it is harder to get out of the final act with someone else there, they will reinforce each other's resolve.

Quite common in recent times? What Toaods was saying in the OP (I think) is that this seems to be quite a new thing. Has Bebo Facebook etc got something to do with it? How do you even approach the subject and why doesn't one of them say this is wrong? How does it get to the stage that 2 girls, friends, are at a place in their lives that they commit suicide together?

Suicide was always such a shameful thing, it was done alone, hidden away etc. Whats happening these days is a different thing entirely.

[Green Mikey]

Quite common in recent times? What Toaods was saying in the OP (I think) is that this seems to be quite a new thing. Has Bebo Facebook etc got something to do with it? How do you even approach the subject and why doesn't one of them say this is wrong? How does it get to the stage that 2 girls, friends, are at a place in their lives that they commit suicide together?

Suicide was always such a shameful thing, it was done alone, hidden away etc. Whats happening these days is a different thing entirely.

Disagree with your last paragraph. I don't see how commiting suicide is different these days. Sadly the method chosen by these girls is similar to many that have been done before.

Bebo and Facebook are the methods that young people use to communicate these days. The fact that they use these sites to leave messages and communicate regarding sucide is a modern version of the note or letter. To blame social networking is reactionary and doesn't address the deaper phsycological problems that lead to suicide.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Quite common in recent times? What Toaods was saying in the OP (I think) is that this seems to be quite a new thing. Has Bebo Facebook etc got something to do with it? How do you even approach the subject and why doesn't one of them say this is wrong? How does it get to the stage that 2 girls, friends, are at a place in their lives that they commit suicide together?

Suicide was always such a shameful thing, it was done alone, hidden away etc. Whats happening these days is a different thing entirely.

From the stuff I've read - and I have read quite a lot because of work - it seems to me things are pretty much as they've always been. Perhaps suicides are more widely reported nowadays, because it was something that was not spoken about in the past?

There is evidence though that suicides can have a domino effect. I recall there was a spate in a government office in Edinburgh a few years back. Maybe seeing one person do it sets off something in another person's mind.

Who knows why these girls did what they did. I do know that sexual abuse is often a trigger, and that depression can be another. Another thing that sometimes happens in depressive suicides is that the person sees the world as a place where no-one can be happy, and takes those who they love with them, because they don't want them to suffer in that kind of world.

That said, some people can be very manipulative and others are very vulnerable. You just have to look at some of the suicide cults to see the affect a persuasive person can have on someone who is seeking meaning from life.

The sad thing is that the majority of people who come into A&E after a failed suicide attempt are glad they didn't succeed. That suggests that a high proportion of those who do succeed might not have intended to end their lives.

---------- Post added at 03:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:40 PM ----------


:agree:



fair point though I personally would replace resolve with waywardness.

It would have to depend on the individual and their own life story.

[Jay]

Disagree with your last paragraph. I don't see how commiting suicide is different these days. Sadly the method chosen by these girls is similar to many that have been done before.

Bebo and Facebook are the methods that young people use to communicate these days. The fact that they use these sites to leave messages and communicate regarding sucide is a modern version of the note or letter. To blame social networking is reactionary and doesn't address the deaper phsycological problems that lead to suicide.

I'm not blaming the websites. What I am saying is that for 2 young girls to do this together is something I dont remember happening in my youth.

Same answer to you FR - its about 2 of them doing this together, not suicide as an act in itself.

[Phil D. Rolls]

I'm not blaming the websites. What I am saying is that for 2 young girls to do this together is something I dont remember happening in my youth.

Same answer to you FR - its about 2 of them doing this together, not suicide as an act in itself.

I know what you are saying, and the stuff I have read suggests that it is not a new thing, and has always gone on. Maybe these things were kept more quiet in the past, or information travels faster these days. I also think it depends on what else has been happening whether it gets reported on the news or not.

[ancienthibby]

I know what you are saying, and the stuff I have read suggests that it is not a new thing, and has always gone on. Maybe these things were kept more quiet in the past, or information travels faster these days. I also think it depends on what else has been happening whether it gets reported on the news or not.

I have been struck by this story since I have crossed the Erskine Bridge by car many times, but also because this idea of teenage suicides as a pact had a huge coverage a year or so ago.

This centered on the Welsh town of Bridgend where something like 13 or more teenagers committed suicide with a number of links between some.

I 'googled' the story and hopefully the link works.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/bridgend-deaths-police-warn-of-bebo-internet-suicide-cult-774532.html

[Phil D. Rolls]

I have been struck by this story since I have crossed the Erskine Bridge by car many times, but also because this idea of teenage suicides as a pact had a huge coverage a year or so ago.

This centered on the Welsh town of Bridgend where something like 13 or more teenagers committed suicide with a number of links between some.

I 'googled' the story and hopefully the link works.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/bridgend-deaths-police-warn-of-bebo-internet-suicide-cult-774532.html

I remember that story. Absolutely bizarre.

[hibsdaft]

it turned out that a lot of the reports on Bridgend had mistaken the town for the wider Council district and rather than taking place in a small town of 10,000 those suicides took place in an area with a population more like 100-200K.

there turned out to be facebook/bebo or other internet link either.

[vincipernoi]

This event involved two very troubled children, the school they were attending was far from mainstream

deliberate self harm and suicide have been around for centuries

Edinburgh, for reasons that are far from clear, has a disproportionate history of this problem, hence its prominence in medical toxicology

no easy answer

[Phil D. Rolls]

Just thought I'd post these numbers, as talking about this subject might be troublesome for some people:


Samaritans: 08457 90 90 90

Breathing Space: 0800 83 85 87 (Mon – Thurs 6pm-2am; Weekends: Fri 6pm – Mon 6am)

ChildLine: 0800 11 11

National Debt line: 0808 808 4000 (Mon – Fri 9am – 9pm, Sat 9.30 – 1pm)

[Dashing Bob S]

Just thought I'd post these numbers, as talking about this subject might be troublesome for some people:


Samaritans: 08457 90 90 90

Breathing Space: 0800 83 85 87 (Mon – Thurs 6pm-2am; Weekends: Fri 6pm – Mon 6am)

ChildLine: 0800 11 11

National Debt line: 0808 808 4000 (Mon – Fri 9am – 9pm, Sat 9.30 – 1pm)

I'm loathe to trivialise what is a deeply serious issue, but did you copy these to Kickback?

[Phil D. Rolls]

I'm loathe to trivialise what is a deeply serious issue, but did you copy these to Kickback?

Where do you think I found them? :greengrin

[Darth Hibbie]

I have unfortunately had some experience in suicides. I would have to say that it is very very unusual for two people to kill themselves together no matter what age. I would also suggest that levels of self harm amongst young people is more prevalent in those who are in care. IN this instance I think that doing it together has given them and increased will to carry it out. Very tragic.

On an aside from what I have seen (no facts to back this up) the vast majority of suicides would appear to be men however the that vast majority of attempted suicides appears to be women.

[muz1875]

http://news.uk.msn.com/uk/article.aspx?cp-documentid=150064576


Bebo? Facebook? Music?



Erm, no. As vinci says, it's not exactly normal children that done it. They've had piss poor lives by the sounds of things. Murderer dad, junkie ex-boyfriend, living in a home. All a bit more likely to contribute don't you think?

Parents should be taking some responsibility as well.