Teenage Mothers

[Phil D. Rolls]

What do people think about Labour's plans to send teenage mum's to supervised housing, rather than giving them a council house right away?

One bit of me hates the thought of morals and values being imposed on them from authority. The other recognises the folly of giving 16 year olds their own house to look after when they haven't even learned how contraception works.

[LiverpoolHibs]

Reactionary (they might as well add that to their moniker) New Labour in adopting B.N.P. policies. Funny that.

Brown...

And I do think it’s time to address a problem that for too long has gone unspoken, the number of children having children. For it cannot be right, for a girl of sixteen, to get pregnant, be given the keys to a council flat and be left on her own.

From now on all 16 and 17 year old parents who get support from the taxpayer will be placed in a network of supervised homes. These shared homes will offer not just a roof over their heads, but a new start in life where they learn responsibility and how to raise their children properly. That’s better for them, better for their babies and better for us all in the long run.

We won’t ever shy away from taking difficult decisions on tough social questions.

Griffin...

There [will] be no council flats and no welfare benefits available to unmarried mothers under the age of 21. Instead they will be placed in ‘mother & baby homes’. Here they will receive academic education as well as parenting classes, plus courses covering all aspects of their social development. The homes will be run by ‘matron’ type figures.

[hibsdaft]

thats not really addressing the issue at hand though LH.

for me this is one of those difficult, complicated issues that has arisen from the way society is organised today to which there are no easy answers.

one danger with the sort of establishment they are proposing is that it becomes a target for abusers of various sorts as we have seen in the past.

[Phil D. Rolls]

thats not really addressing the issue at hand though LH.

for me this is one of those difficult, complicated issues that has arisen from the way society is organised today to which there are no easy answers.

one danger with the sort of establishment they are proposing is that it becomes a target for abusers of various sorts as we have seen in the past.

I am with Brown when he says it isn't right - for the mother or for the child. I understand that around 70% of these tenancies fail in the first year.

I could also be persuaded that for a lot of people the benefits system is their only future, and that children are being brought into this world to improve some people's income.

I think this is a massive problem that we have in the UK. It breaks my heart to think that girls think so little of themselves that they deliberately get pregnant. Given the amount of sex education we have, and how easy contraceptives are to obtain, you have to wonder if these pregnancies are not accidental.

[IndieHibby]

I am with Brown when he says it isn't right - for the mother or for the child. I understand that around 70% of these tenancies fail in the first year.

I could also be persuaded that for a lot of people the benefits system is their only future, and that children are being brought into this world to improve some people's income.

I think this is a massive problem that we have in the UK. It breaks my heart to think that girls think so little of themselves that they deliberately get pregnant. Given the amount of sex education we have, and how easy contraceptives are to obtain, you have to wonder if these pregnancies are not accidental.

Then, FR, you would be absolutely, 100% correct.

Only when you have witnessed it 1st hand are you prepared to accept it is true. I witnessed a normal, pleasant girl of 15 years old, who was going out with some 23/4 year-old local guy, get DELIBERATELY pregnant in order to get a council house.

She even showed me the scans and the application form. She didn't, even for 1 second, show that she though this was a bad idea and all her friends supported her - because you don't slag off your friends, eh?

[Phil D. Rolls]

Then, FR, you would be absolutely, 100% correct.

Only when you have witnessed it 1st hand are you prepared to accept it is true. I witnessed a normal, pleasant girl of 15 years old, who was going out with some 23/4 year-old local guy, get DELIBERATELY pregnant in order to get a council house.

She even showed me the scans and the application form. She didn't, even for 1 second, show that she though this was a bad idea and all her friends supported her - because you don't slag off your friends, eh?

I saw a lassie in the Kirkgate yesterday, who had no idea how to look after the two infants she was trailing round with her - all she seemed to be able to do was bark the odd instruction at the kid. In a few years time they'll be looking for reasons for his lack of concentration and social skills, and they'll say he's got ADHD.

In fact I've seen lots of cases like that. The other thing that really strikes me is - in the schemes - how few men there are around. It's almost as if some post feminist society is emerging where men are deemed surplus to requirements for anything other than breeding. (But that is another story altogether).

[Twa Cairpets]

Dont know what to think of the Brown plan yet as I've not seen the detail, but to rubbish it because it has similarities to a BNP policy does not in and of itself make it bad.

But thinking about it, it is an issue that has no easy answer at all. Just thinking through the issues, leads you down dead-end streets.

Sixteen and pregnant is not illegal, but it does not mean grown up and capable of raising a child. It might for some, but for those it doesnt, what options do you have:
(a) No society responsibility - "they got pregnant, its up to them to do it themselves. If they're old enough..." etc etc
(b) Try to look after them - provide council accommodation, but then you have the risk of deliberate pregnancies for housing. But what about the accidents, the ignorant, the naive?
(c) Put then in the new type of accommodation. Might be good, but will be underfunded, and open to all types of potential issues.

I dont know the answer to this one - its probably a compromise of lots of things.

[Jamesie]

I could also be persuaded that for a lot of people the benefits system is their only future, and that children are being brought into this world to improve some people's income.

I don't think that denied. I have actually overheard teenagers advising each other that the best way to get a house is to get pregnant.

[LiverpoolHibs]

thats not really addressing the issue at hand though LH.

Really? I thought it was pertinent.

I'll give a proper reply then...

Firstly, it relies on the idea that a huge majority of teenage mothers are living on their own in council houses (oh, and as another aside, Labour trying to look like they're protecting council house stocks is a hilarious part of this story) that they are given upon giving birth. I'm not sure this is true. I'd have thought that most would stay living with their parents, although I'm willing to be proved wrong on that.

Having had a bit of a look about it seems that a great number also stay in rented accomodation. The charity Gingerbread has a response to the speech on it's website and points out that...

Damaging myths abound about young parents, and it's vital that politicians don’t reinforce these. Just three per cent of all births in 2007 (the latest available data) were to mothers under 18, and teenagers make up just two per cent of single parents. Far from ‘being handed the keys to a council flat’ young people under 18 are in fact not allowed to hold a tenancy.

Most teenage parents already live at home and homeless 16 and 17 year olds are already supposed to be offered supported accommodation by their local authority. More investment in making this supported accommodation a reality across the country would be welcome – but it must not be accompanied by rhetoric that risks reinforcing myths about teenage parents.

So, (without the need to draw attention to the complete lie told by Gordon Brown) Reactionary New Labour it is. Brown is becoming terribly fond of dog-whistle politics: "Because the decent, hard-working majority are getting ever more angry - rightly so - with the minority who will talk about their rights but never accept their responsibilities." Christ...

I've got no idea how it's a preferable solution to a concerted, state sponsored, societal response. Because it's cheaper? Because they can be established and run by private companies rather than increasing help afforded by the NHS (health workers etc.)?

[LiverpoolHibs]

Then, FR, you would be absolutely, 100% correct.

Only when you have witnessed it 1st hand are you prepared to accept it is true. I witnessed a normal, pleasant girl of 15 years old, who was going out with some 23/4 year-old local guy, get DELIBERATELY pregnant in order to get a council house.

She even showed me the scans and the application form. She didn't, even for 1 second, show that she though this was a bad idea and all her friends supported her - because you don't slag off your friends, eh?


I don't think that denied. I have actually overheard teenagers advising each other that the best way to get a house is to get pregnant.

All research into this sort of thing has concluded that it is, to a huge extent, a complete myth.

http://www.jrf.org.uk/sites/files/jrf/9781861348753.pdf

[Phil D. Rolls]

Really? I thought it was pertinent.

I'll give a proper reply then...

Firstly, it relies on the idea that a huge majority of teenage mothers are living on their own in council houses (oh, and as another aside, Labour trying to look like they're protecting council house stocks is a hilarious part of this story) that they are given upon giving birth. I'm not sure this is true. I'd have thought that most would stay living with their parents, although I'm willing to be proved wrong on that.

Having had a bit of a look about it seems that a great number also stay in rented accomodation. The charity Gingerbread has a response to the speech on it's website and points out that...

Damaging myths abound about young parents, and it's vital that politicians don’t reinforce these. Just three per cent of all births in 2007 (the latest available data) were to mothers under 18, and teenagers make up just two per cent of single parents. Far from ‘being handed the keys to a council flat’ young people under 18 are in fact not allowed to hold a tenancy.

Most teenage parents already live at home and homeless 16 and 17 year olds are already supposed to be offered supported accommodation by their local authority. More investment in making this supported accommodation a reality across the country would be welcome – but it must not be accompanied by rhetoric that risks reinforcing myths about teenage parents.

So, (without the need to draw attention to the complete lie told by Gordon Brown) Reactionary New Labour it is. Brown is becoming terribly fond of dog-whistle politics: "Because the decent, hard-working majority are getting ever more angry - rightly so - with the minority who will talk about their rights but never accept their responsibilities." Christ...

I've got no idea how it's a preferable solution to a concerted, state sponsored, societal response. Because it's cheaper? Because they can be established and run by private companies rather than increasing help afforded by the NHS (health workers etc.)?

Interesting stats there LH. The way I can see that some might think it a solution is that many of these mothers will have been in poor family situations themselves. They see getting pregnant as a simple solution to getting out of that situation.

However, having never had anyone to mentor them in family skills they are doomed to make the same mistakes as their parents. I think Brown would say his plan is an attempt to bring some stability and positive role models into these youngster's lives.

The big question I have is where will he get the right sort of people to do the job of carers and mentors?

[hibsdaft]

how about this- if folk think the only way to get a council house is by getting up the duff why don't we build more council houses again and ensure that is never the case again. then at least young girls who want independence/ an escape from the family home can do so without entering a spiral of social problems that have such long term consequences.

[IndieHibby]

All research into this sort of thing has concluded that it is, to a huge extent, a complete myth.

http://www.jrf.org.uk/sites/files/jrf/9781861348753.pdf

I can confirm it is not a complete myth - hence my post.

Is the research incorrect, or just your conclusion? :wink:

[LiverpoolHibs]

Interesting stats there LH. The way I can see that some might think it a solution is that many of these mothers will have been in poor family situations themselves. They see getting pregnant as a simple solution to getting out of that situation.

However, having never had anyone to mentor them in family skills they are doomed to make the same mistakes as their parents. I think Brown would say his plan is an attempt to bring some stability and positive role models into these youngster's lives.

The big question I have is where will he get the right sort of people to do the job of carers and mentors?

I think that's a large part of it, yeah.


I can confirm it is not a complete myth - hence my post.

Is the research incorrect, or just your conclusion? :wink:

Why, then, has every piece of research into the matter concluded that it is - to all intents and purposes - a myth?

I'm not sure your witnessing of 'a normal, pleasant girl of 15 years old get DELIBERATELY pregnant in order to get a council house' really stands up to the level of research carried out by the Joseph Rowntree Foundation, though it is a fascinating peccadillo...

[joe breezy]

My mum was a teenage mother and I had a great upbringing, obviously not always the case but I think teenage mums get a bad press sometimes.

[ArabHibee]

I am with Brown when he says it isn't right - for the mother or for the child. I understand that around 70% of these tenancies fail in the first year.

I could also be persuaded that for a lot of people the benefits system is their only future, and that children are being brought into this world to improve some people's income.

I think this is a massive problem that we have in the UK. It breaks my heart to think that girls think so little of themselves that they deliberately get pregnant. Given the amount of sex education we have, and how easy contraceptives are to obtain, you have to wonder if these pregnancies are not accidental.

I've watched a couple of episodes of 'Teenage and Pregnant' which was on BBC3 or BBC4 and for the amount of sex education there is today you would not believe the naivety of some of these girls.
"I didn't think I would get pregnant the first time" is one of the usual responses.
The funniest (and saddest one) I watched was twin girls, one of them got pregnant at 14 and had a baby, the other one obviously felt left out, so she got pregnant too. Very sad.

[Lucius Apuleius]

Slightly off topic but nevertheless shows what sex education is like here. Unfortunately I have been forced to employ over 400 women. They will be accommodated in 16 bed rooms in a camp with 3,840 men (separate blocks though). I had a meeting with some of them a couple of days ago and one of them raised the possibility of me supplying them with separate dining facilities. I told her it was not possible and they would all have to coexist in messing, recreation and gymnasium. Asked why they would want separate mess halls from their brothers only to be told that they were worried eating with the guys would get them pregnant. I jest not. This woman has a university degree which might lead us back to bloody universities and stupid students again. By the way, she is also 36 years old.

[Woody1985]

My mum was a teenage mother and I had a great upbringing, obviously not always the case but I think teenage mums get a bad press sometimes.

Ditto. Mine was 17, 5 days before her 18th birthday. Does that make her too old for this thread? :LOL:

[Sumner]

give them all houses, furniture and fag money, for they breedeth like the mighty rabbit

[ArabHibee]

Ditto. Mine was 17, 5 days before her 18th birthday. Does that make her too old for this thread? :LOL:
In Dundee terms, yes. :greengrin