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iwasthere1972
04-10-2009, 11:07 AM
Hamilton v St Johnstone 2,199

Kilmarnock v Aberdeen 4,997

Motherwell v Falkirk 4,337

St Mirren v Hearts 4,652

Hibernian v Dundee Utd 13,056 Decent turn out :agree:

Total 29,241

Pretty miserable figures when you consider that Scotland are meant to be football mad.

All those matches were 3pm kick offs and none of them were live on the tellybox. So we can't even use that as an excuse.

:grr: Petrie get it sorted.

3pm
04-10-2009, 11:09 AM
Hamilton v St Johnstone 2,199

Kilmarnock v Aberdeen 4,997

Motherwell v Falkirk 4,337

St Mirren v Hearts 4,652

Hibernian v Dundee Utd 13,056 Decent turn out :agree:

Total 29,241

Pretty miserable figures when you consider that Scotland are meant to be football mad.

All those matches were 3pm kick offs and none of them were live on the tellybox. So we can't even use that as an excuse.

:grr: Petrie get it sorted.

United had adecent support with them for a change.

iwasthere1972
04-10-2009, 11:13 AM
United had adecent support with them for a change.

They did indeed. But the other attendances were basically miserable. That's not a summing up of well fans either. :greengrin

Phil D. Rolls
04-10-2009, 11:24 AM
Disappointing figures in a Scottish and British context. However, I wonder how they compare to some of the other leagues in Europe. I bet French clubs won't get much more than the SPL, and some would bite your hand off for attendances like the one at ER.

aljo7-0
04-10-2009, 11:30 AM
The recession has got to be a factor (I know I'm having to pick my games this year due to money concerns) but I wonder if the standard of football in the league is an issue too, as most games seems to end up as a bit of a war of artrittion in midfield with 2 teams trying to cancel out the other rather than playing the football needed to win games.

joe breezy
04-10-2009, 11:53 AM
There's only a few clubs in Scotland that can get a decent home support; Rangers, Celtic, Hibs, Aberdeen and Hearts

Now and then, with success Dundee or Dundee United could get over 10 000 and there was a time when Partick Thistle could attract over 10 000 too

But not sure those days will ever return. Shame so many support Rangers and Celtic

LancashireHibby
04-10-2009, 12:06 PM
There's only a few clubs in Scotland that can get a decent home support; Rangers, Celtic, Hibs, Aberdeen and Hearts

Now and then, with success Dundee or Dundee United could get over 10 000 and there was a time when Partick Thistle could attract over 10 000 too

But not sure those days will ever return. Shame so many support Rangers and Celtic
Surely the sheep can command a decent support as well?

That Hamilton crowd would scrape in to the top five non-league attendances in England yesterday, utter shambles.

joe breezy
04-10-2009, 12:11 PM
Surely the sheep can command a decent support as well?

That Hamilton crowd would scrape in to the top five non-league attendances in England yesterday, utter shambles.

Indeed, I edited my first post when I realised I missed them out

Somehow English clubs do get much bigger crowds and that is in places that don't have big populations. Whilst Man U and Liverpool get a fair share of glory hunters I don't think it's anything as bad as what we get with Rangers and Celtic

TheEastTerrace
04-10-2009, 12:17 PM
Hamilton v St Johnstone 2,199

Kilmarnock v Aberdeen 4,997

Motherwell v Falkirk 4,337

St Mirren v Hearts 4,652

Hibernian v Dundee Utd 13,056 Decent turn out :agree:

Total 29,241

Pretty miserable figures when you consider that Scotland are meant to be football mad.

All those matches were 3pm kick offs and none of them were live on the tellybox. So we can't even use that as an excuse.

:grr: Petrie get it sorted.

Boring league format
High ticket prices
Poor standard of football

Pretty much sums it up for me.

HibeeUnderwood
04-10-2009, 03:02 PM
Hamilton v St Johnstone 2,199

Kilmarnock v Aberdeen 4,997

Motherwell v Falkirk 4,337

St Mirren v Hearts 4,652

Hibernian v Dundee Utd 13,056 Decent turn out :agree:

Total 29,241

Pretty miserable figures when you consider that Scotland are meant to be football mad.

All those matches were 3pm kick offs and none of them were live on the tellybox. So we can't even use that as an excuse.

:grr: Petrie get it sorted.

:faf:

Blame everything on the tache! Love it! :top marks

givescotlandfreedom
04-10-2009, 03:31 PM
Interesting to see half of those at an SPL game yesterday were at Easter Road.

Phil D. Rolls
05-10-2009, 08:31 AM
The recession has got to be a factor (I know I'm having to pick my games this year due to money concerns) but I wonder if the standard of football in the league is an issue too, as most games seems to end up as a bit of a war of artrittion in midfield with 2 teams trying to cancel out the other rather than playing the football needed to win games.

Watching MOTD, and MOTD2 I couldn't help notice a lot of empty seats, even at the likes of Arsenal. Are tickets just too dear, or is there too much footy on TV these days?

Joe Baker II
05-10-2009, 09:31 AM
Regarding Hamilton I cannot help thinking they understate attendances - at recent Hibs game I was astonished there were officially over 2,000 empty seats. Suspect something similar this week.

Other crowds look indefensible and clearly show prices too high. 5,000 seriously poor for St Mirren Hearts and Killiie-Dons games - I would suggest over 2,000 were deterred by consistently high prices (generally, not neccesarily the prices for those particular games) for both games.

As someone said happening all over Europe. Much made of only 41,000 at Parkhead for high profile game v Rapid Wien but think only the holders Shaktar Donetsk have had a higher crowd in the Europa League this season. And increasingly few believe official crowd figures for English Premiership clubs.

Hibbyradge
05-10-2009, 09:32 AM
29000, eh?

OFGTF.

:rolleyes:

MB62
05-10-2009, 09:57 AM
There's only a few clubs in Scotland that can get a decent home support; Rangers, Celtic, Hibs, Aberdeen and Hearts

Now and then, with success Dundee or Dundee United could get over 10 000 and there was a time when Partick Thistle could attract over 10 000 too

But not sure those days will ever return. Shame so many support Rangers and Celtic

I don't see the big problem as being the number of people from outside the weeg that 'support' the bigot brothers. IMO the bigger problem is those parents who have leanings towards the OF but never go to the games. They bring up their offsprings to be junior bigots but never take them to the games. These are bairns who are probably very interested in fitba, playing it at school and for clubs etc, turning up with their rantic tops on, but have never been to a game in their lives. These kids could and should be going along to see their local team, whether that's Hibs, Yams, Aberdeen, Forfar or whoever, but they are lost to the game.
In my section of the road where I stay, there must be at least three families in that catagory, who have brought up their kids as rantic supporters but never set foot inside a football ground from one season to the next. I think at least two of them should be going along to Easter Road but they presently contribute nothing to the game, other than buying dodgers tops, money that should be getting spent in the Hibs shop.

OFGTF

Hibercelona
05-10-2009, 05:54 PM
Out of 5,000,000 people in Scotland.... Under 30,000 attend non old firm games. :boo hoo:

Hibercelona
05-10-2009, 05:57 PM
I don't see the big problem as being the number of people from outside the weeg that 'support' the bigot brothers. IMO the bigger problem is those parents who have leanings towards the OF but never go to the games. They bring up their offsprings to be junior bigots but never take them to the games. These are bairns who are probably very interested in fitba, playing it at school and for clubs etc, turning up with their rantic tops on, but have never been to a game in their lives. These kids could and should be going along to see their local team, whether that's Hibs, Yams, Aberdeen, Forfar or whoever, but they are lost to the game.
In my section of the road where I stay, there must be at least three families in that catagory, who have brought up their kids as rantic supporters but never set foot inside a football ground from one season to the next. I think at least two of them should be going along to Easter Road but they presently contribute nothing to the game, other than buying dodgers tops, money that should be getting spent in the Hibs shop.

OFGTF

I think a lot of it has to do with money.

Parents just don't have the money to take their children to see their local teams.

Perhaps if ticket prices were cheaper, we'd see a rise in local team supports.

When you're a kid, its easys just to follow the teams at the top, because you're never going to see your local team play.

iwasthere1972
05-10-2009, 06:47 PM
Out of 5,000,000 people in Scotland.... Under 30,000 attend non old firm games. :boo hoo:

That figure doesn't of course include divisions 1, 2 and 3. At a pure guess you could probably double it.

Speaking personally it was much easier for me to attend Hibs games as a 10 year old kid. My dad wasn't into football and I didn't depend on him for away matches either. Even at the relatively young age of 11 years old I managed to get myself to Ibrox (in the wrong end I should add) and back safely. It was also the days when you could get a lift over so all you needed was your bus fares and money for a pie.

£15 should be the maximum anyone is asked to pay to see SPL matches. That's all it's worth in my view. Saying that I would gladly pay double that to see us cuff the Yams ay Tynie like we did in Maka's first game for us a couple of seasons ago. Well worth the spondoolies.

ChrissyG1875
05-10-2009, 06:57 PM
all the spl games on saterday put together was less than at Pride Park:bitchy: Shocking!

Just Jimmy
05-10-2009, 07:07 PM
The product (and it is that) is gash.

Hibercelona
05-10-2009, 07:24 PM
That figure doesn't of course include divisions 1, 2 and 3. At a pure guess you could probably double it.

No danger do about 30,000 people in total go to division 1,2 & 3 games.

I couldnt even imagine 10,000.

modsquad
05-10-2009, 07:32 PM
The product is poor and ticket prices are a disgrace.

Someone on JKB recently said they had been on holiday in Italy and had gone to a Lazio game and paid 15 Euros for a decent ticket. He then went to Fiorentina/Athletico Madrid in the Champions League qualifiers and paid 8 Euros to watch the game.

The prices in British football are a disgrace. It costs more to go and watch Altrincham in the Conference than it does to see a Champions League qualifier. That says there is something wrong with the prices in this country.

Ticket prices in Germany are also extremely reasonable.

Unfortunately I can't see either the product or pricing structure changing so.

Hibercelona
05-10-2009, 07:42 PM
The product is poor and ticket prices are a disgrace.

Someone on JKB recently said they had been on holiday in Italy and had gone to a Lazio game and paid 15 Euros for a decent ticket. He then went to Fiorentina/Athletico Madrid in the Champions League qualifiers and paid 8 Euros to watch the game.

The prices in British football are a disgrace. It costs more to go and watch Altrincham in the Conference than it does to see a Champions League qualifier. That says there is something wrong with the prices in this country.

Ticket prices in Germany are also extremely reasonable.

Unfortunately I can't see either the product or pricing structure changing so.

We're all suckers really...

We complain about the prices.... yet, we keep on paying anyway.

It's our own fault that prices are so high. :agree:

bingo70
05-10-2009, 08:02 PM
We're all suckers really...

We complain about the prices.... yet, we keep on paying anyway.

It's our own fault that prices are so high. :agree:

Whats the option though?

Everyone would love it to be cheaper and the clubs would love there to be more fans in the ground but whenever any club has tried to reduce the costs it hasn't worked.

Fans want to see the best players, the best players cost lots of money and other than gate receipts there isn't too many other ways the club can make money so need to maximise it.

I'd have a much bigger problem with the ticket prices if clubs were rolling in cash, but as it is, most clubs are crippled with debt losing money every year so i just don't see how it's feesable to expect clubs to lower ticket prices.

Hibercelona
05-10-2009, 08:10 PM
Whats the option though?

Everyone would love it to be cheaper and the clubs would love there to be more fans in the ground but whenever any club has tried to reduce the costs it hasn't worked.

Fans want to see the best players, the best players cost lots of money and other than gate receipts there isn't too many other ways the club can make money so need to maximise it.

I'd have a much bigger problem with the ticket prices if clubs were rolling in cash, but as it is, most clubs are crippled with debt losing money every year so i just don't see how it's feesable to expect clubs to lower ticket prices.

The reason clubs are losing money is because they are spending money on players that they can currently afford to have at the club.

If clubs were wiser and budgeted their money... they would have the money to bring in better quality in the future.

But as it is with British clubs.... when they want something, they must have it right now... regardless of how much debt it will get them into.

Football clubs buying players... are like women going out to buy shoes. :greengrin ..... they see something they like... and pull out the credit card. :wink:

Hibs have been sensible over the last decade.... the quality has been far from rotton (although it has sometimes).... and we are definatly making progress, and it won't be long until the club is into the profit figures.

But I bet the ticket prices won't drop....

bingo70
05-10-2009, 08:18 PM
The reason clubs are losing money is because they are spending money on players that they can currently afford to have at the club.

If clubs were wiser and budgeted their money... they would have the money to bring in better quality in the future.

But as it is with British clubs.... when they want something, they must have it right now... regardless of how much debt it will get them into.

Football clubs buying players... are like women going out to buy shoes. :greengrin ..... they see something they like... and pull out the credit card. :wink:

Hibs have been sensible over the last decade.... the quality has been far from rotton (although it has sometimes).... and we are definatly making progress, and it won't be long until the club is into the profit figures.

But I bet the ticket prices won't drop....

If clubs spent less on the playing budget and reduced the ticket prices, then the quality of player wouldn't be there which in turn would have an effect on the entertainment value which will then lead to people not going back, which takes us back to square one.

Obviously the answer to this is to bring through quality young cheap players, however thats not some great secret, every club is trying to do that already.

I don't know what the answer is BTW, i just think if it was just as simple as lowering prices then clubs would have done it before now.

Hibercelona
05-10-2009, 08:19 PM
If clubs spent less on the playing budget and reduced the ticket prices, then the quality of player wouldn't be there which in turn would have an effect on the entertainment value which will then lead to people not going back, which takes us back to square one.

Obviously the answer to this is to bring through quality young cheap players, however thats not some great secret, every club is trying to do that already.

I don't know what the answer is BTW, i just think if it was just as simple as lowering prices then clubs would have done it before now.

Get a Vlad to take over our club? :duck:

bingo70
05-10-2009, 08:21 PM
Get a Vlad to take over our club? :duck:

I know thats definately not the answer :wink:

Hibercelona
05-10-2009, 08:23 PM
I know thats definately not the answer :wink:

What about an Arab? :devil:

weecounty hibby
05-10-2009, 08:30 PM
Peoples circumstances change also. I hardly missed a game home or away for probably 20 odd years. The last season that I had a ST was Mowbrays last. I now only attend a handfull of games a year. I would go to more games if the prices were lower as a day at ER with my son would cost me £50 that I just cannot justify at this time. This includes tickets, travel, food and usually a trip to the shop.

C I Hibee
05-10-2009, 09:58 PM
35 Euros for my ticket at Borussia Monchengladbach on Saturday. Cheaper tickets were available in the standing areas.

Sir David Gray
05-10-2009, 09:59 PM
Total attendance figures for each league in the UK this weekend;

English Premiership

376818 (AVERAGE-37682)

Championship

229483 (AVERAGE-19123)

League One

122888 (AVERAGE-10240)

League Two

39179 (AVERAGE-3265)

TOTAL IN ENGLAND-768368 AVERAGE-16703

% of total population who attended a match at the weekend-1.5%

SPL

79517 (AVERAGE-13252)

First Division

5469 (AVERAGE-2734)

Second Division

1773 (AVERAGE-591)

Third Division

980 (AVERAGE-326)

TOTAL IN SCOTLAND-87739 AVERAGE-6267

% of total population who attended a match at the weekend-1.7%

Just some info that may be of some interest to some people.

Hibbyradge
05-10-2009, 10:05 PM
Total attendance figures for each league in the UK this weekend;

English Premiership

376818 (AVERAGE-37682)

Championship

229483 (AVERAGE-19123)

League One

122888 (AVERAGE-10240)

League Two

39179 (AVERAGE-3265)

TOTAL IN ENGLAND-768368 AVERAGE-16703

% of total population who attended a match at the weekend-1.5%

SPL

79517 (AVERAGE-13252)

First Division

5469 (AVERAGE-2734)

Second Division

1773 (AVERAGE-591)

Third Division

980 (AVERAGE-326)

TOTAL IN SCOTLAND-87739 AVERAGE-6267

% of total population who attended a match at the weekend-1.7%

Just some info that may be of some interest to some people.

What percentage did the Rantic game make up of of the total Scottish attendance?

Sir David Gray
05-10-2009, 10:11 PM
What percentage did the Rantic game make up of of the total Scottish attendance?

Almost 57%.

Jonnyboy
05-10-2009, 10:13 PM
Total attendance figures for each league in the UK this weekend;

English Premiership

376818 (AVERAGE-37682)



Interesting that almost 1 in 5 attended the Man U game

iwasthere1972
05-10-2009, 11:28 PM
No danger do about 30,000 people in total go to division 1,2 & 3 games.

I couldnt even imagine 10,000.


Think it was only 8,000 which surprised me. It's worse than I thought.

basehibby
06-10-2009, 12:16 AM
Out of 5,000,000 people in Scotland.... Under 30,000 attend non old firm games. :boo hoo:

Only last saturday Wee Hibee - a more realistic guestimate would be

Hibs, Dons, DUtd and Yams - avg 10,000 = 40,000
The rest of the SPL - avg 4000 = 32,000
1st Div - avg 2000 = 20,000
Div 2 & 3 - avg 500 = 10,000

that's quite conservative but still a bit over 100,000 - still not as much as the biggot brother's combined but you can take your head out of the gas oven :greengrin

Septimus
06-10-2009, 04:13 AM
The plain fact is that the support of the lesser teams is draining away as every year the silverware is divided up by the OF. It is difficult to get excited about a foregone conclusion. The diehards continue to attend but slowly they are being engulfed in a sea of sameness.

What to do about it? How about forcing each team to field, say, five players born within a radius of 20 miles from their team's base. Football is, we are told, a tribal business. The average supporter is rapidly losing interest in his tribe as they have no chance of winning anything and they struggle with the inequality which exists in today's game.

Joe Baker II
06-10-2009, 10:35 AM
Total attendance figures for each league in the UK this weekend;

English Premiership

376818 (AVERAGE-37682)

Championship

229483 (AVERAGE-19123)

League One

122888 (AVERAGE-10240)

League Two

39179 (AVERAGE-3265)

TOTAL IN ENGLAND-768368 AVERAGE-16703

% of total population who attended a match at the weekend-1.5%

SPL

79517 (AVERAGE-13252)

First Division

5469 (AVERAGE-2734)

Second Division

1773 (AVERAGE-591)

Third Division

980 (AVERAGE-326)

TOTAL IN SCOTLAND-87739 AVERAGE-6267

% of total population who attended a match at the weekend-1.7%

Just some info that may be of some interest to some people.

Some caveats here:

1 I calculate the England and Wales aggregate as 1.4% not 1.5%. Also suspect there are days when 2nd tier in England has lower aggregate than last Saturdays that may be case to lesser extent for 3rd tier. Also several English clubs are known to overstate their attendances by including all season ticket holders even if they do not attend - this is not unheard of in Scotland (though I have never seen this at any game I have attended at clubs usually accused) but none of the clubs generally accused of this were at home at the weekend.

2 Alba cup semis on Sunday also attracted 5,000 between them. And the league games that were cancelled to accommodate them would probably have attracted more, probably twice that. There was a Saturday this season in which 3 Division 1 games had crowds of over 5,000, more than most of the lower 2 leagues in England.

3 Several postponed games on Saturday so “real” aggregate goes up further.

More fundamentally, one cannot really conclude that only 30,000 in Scotland choose to watch football other than the OF from the evidence presented, 3 points to note are:

• As a start plenty of fans only go to Internationals and European games, and over a season the 30,000 quoted probably consists of at least 150,000 pretty regular attenders (obviously they do not go to every home game).

• Another interesting recent development is that junior football attendances in Scotland have seemingly increased in recent years - they used to attract about 40,000 each weekend - this may be higher now.

• And Highland League and South of Scotland Leagues probably get another 10,000 or so at least each weekend.

None of the above is meant to defend admission price levels in either English or Scottish football btw.

Joe Baker II
06-10-2009, 10:38 AM
How about forcing each team to field, say, five players born within a radius of 20 miles from their team's base. Football is, we are told, a tribal business. The average supporter is rapidly losing interest in his tribe as they have no chance of winning anything and they struggle with the inequality which exists in today's game.

Your second sentence is not wrong but I think it is wasteful football trying to resolve it by the answer you suggest - it is not undesirable in itself I know, but would fail any employment law in Europe as soon as it was challenged, and would rightly be seen by many as discriminatory and racist. Football can do plenty more to improve its appeal so should not waste resource where a result is inachievable.

IWasThere2016
06-10-2009, 10:55 AM
The product (and it is that) is gash.

Yup. The game in Scotland is dying on its feet and MAJOR changes required. I would start with the OF going. They bring less and less to the table these days and they have strangled competition out of the league for years now. Had that been a table top clash at ER at the weekend it would have been a sell-out IMHO.

And rather than waste cash on the East, I would offer free kids tickets and grow the fan base personally.

Joe Baker II
06-10-2009, 11:11 AM
Yup. The game in Scotland is dying on its feet and MAJOR changes required. I would start with the OF going. They bring less and less to the table these days and they have strangled competition out of the league for years now. Had that been a table top clash at ER at the weekend it would have been a sell-out IMHO.

And rather than waste cash on the East, I would offer free kids tickets and grow the fan base personally.

I do not see any evidence that attendance on Saturday would have been bigger had it been a table top clash. OF "going" is not easily achievable even if desirable (and this is debatable to say the least) and does not mean them leaving Scotland in practice.

I do agree with your second paragraph re East Stand though.