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GlesgaeHibby
03-10-2009, 05:08 PM
Stack-5 Didn't have much to do, but his distribution was very poor. Constantly lumping it up to Riordan.

Wotherspoon-6 Good solid game. Stayed tight to his man, defended well.
Hogg-6 Decent game bar gifting them a decent chance.
Bamba-7 Good solid centre half. One stupid decision to pass out of defence aside he was excellent.
Murray-6 Solid Game

Zemmama-7 Class act, although I wish he wouldn't overcook it at times.
Miller-7 First half he bossed it, faded a bit but came back in to it at the end.
McBride-7 Good solid shift. Great grafter.
Riordan-5 Wasted out on the left. Should have scored.

Benji-6 Held the ball up well at times. Was often the only one willing to move for a throw in. Sharpness will come with game time.
Stokes-5 Good effort in first half but his touch badly let him down at times today.

hibee_girl
03-10-2009, 05:15 PM
Stack 5 - Didn't have too much to do but his kicking was awful today plus there were a few times when he could have played it out quickly but resorted to hoofing it upfield instead

Wotherspoon 6 - Decent game from him thought he made a few mistakes
Hogg 7 - Solid performance
Bamba 7 - Solid today
Murray 6 - Thought he was caught out of position a few times but otherwise did well

McBride 7 - Great game from him
Miller 9 - Head and shoulders above everyone on the pitch
Zemmama 8 - Ran the show in the first half, great goal but faded in the second half
Riordan 7 - Worked hard, should have scored

Benji 6 - Was decent enough in the first half but wasn't really in the game in the 2nd, should have been replaced
Stokes 6 - First touch let him down at times but worked hard

AL-Qaholik
03-10-2009, 05:17 PM
Stack-5 Didn't have much to do, but his distribution was very poor. Constantly lumping it up to Riordan.

Wotherspoon-6 Good solid game. Stayed tight to his man, defended well.
Hogg-6 Decent game bar gifting them a decent chance.
Bamba-7 Good solid centre half. One stupid decision to pass out of defence aside he was excellent.
Murray-6 Solid Game

Zemmama-7 Class act, although I wish he wouldn't overcook it at times.
Miller-7 First half he bossed it, faded a bit but came back in to it at the end.
McBride-6 Good solid shift.
Riordan-5 Wasted out on the left. Should have scored.

Benji-6 Held the ball up well at times. Was often the only one willing to move for a throw in. Sharpness will come with game time.
Stokes-5 Good effort in first half but his touch badly let him down at times today.


Pretty much agree with most of that...

Would maybe bump McBride up to a 7 as I thought he was the only one really grafting out there today!

Possibly Stack down to 4 simply due to the fact that he had nothing to do, but still did it poorly...


Totally bemused by the lack of substitutions however...does Yogi have that little faith in the players on his bench??

GlesgaeHibby
03-10-2009, 05:20 PM
Pretty much agree with most of that...

Would maybe bump McBride up to a 7 as I thought he was the only one really grafting out there today!

Possibly Stack down to 4 simply due to the fact that he had nothing to do, but still did it poorly...


Totally bemused by the lack of substitutions however...does Yogi have that little faith in the players on his bench??

Changed it now. I've been very impressed with McBride since he came to the club. Works hard, good distribution too. He was excellent first half today.

VegasHibby
03-10-2009, 05:20 PM
Stack 5 - Didn't have too much to do but his kicking was awful today plus there were a few times when he could have played it out quickly but resorted to hoofing it upfield instead

Wotherspoon 6 - Decent game from him thought he made a few mistakes
Hogg 7 - Solid performance
Bamba 7 - Solid today
Murray 6 - Thought he was caught out of position a few times but otherwise did well

McBride 7 - Great game from him
Miller 9 - Head and shoulders above everyone on the pitch
Zemmama 8 - Ran the show in the first half, great goal but faded in the second half
Riordan 7 - Worked hard, should have scored

Benji 6 - Was decent enough in the first half but wasn't really in the game in the 2nd, should have been replaced
Stokes 6 - First touch let him down at times but worked hard


Like you said surprised Benji wasn't taken off. Strange tactics from Yogi today. I think he was playing it safe for a draw after they scored

Broken Gnome
03-10-2009, 05:21 PM
Pretty much agree with most of that...

Would maybe bump McBride up to a 7 as I thought he was the only one really grafting out there today!

Possibly Stack down to 4 simply due to the fact that he had nothing to do, but still did it poorly...


Totally bemused by the lack of substitutions however...does Yogi have that little faith in the players on his bench??

Every forward thinking Hibs player looked dangerous, what was to change? Nish? Galbraith for Benji would have been the only plausible substitution really, and Hibs looked capable of winning that with the players they had on. We don't NEED to make changes...

frazeHFC
03-10-2009, 05:22 PM
Stack 5 - Kicking was poor

Wotherspoon 6 - I prefer him at right mid but was good enough
Hogg 7 - Won things in the air, got stuck in, captains performance
Bamba 7 - Stuck in, won in air
Murray 7 - Got forward when possible and took no messing

Zemmama 9 - Fantastic
McBride 7 - Was great, always tackled and passed well
Miller 7 - Faded in last 30 mins but again looks really good
Riordan 7 - Should have scored, but played well

Benji 6 - Won things in the air and tracked back, not lazy but not much chances to score
Stokes 6 - Ran around the whole game and had some great skill



Ref 3 - So many times our strikers were being held but nothing given, i think he forgot he had a yellow card

Badge
03-10-2009, 05:24 PM
Like you said surprised Benji wasn't taken off. Strange tactics from Yogi today. I think he was playing it safe for a draw after they scored

Are you kidding. He would have brought Rankin and Cregg on if he wanted to play it safe. He kept 4 attacking players on, hardly playing it safe.

truehibernian
03-10-2009, 05:30 PM
Maybe Galbraith could have had the last 10 minutes, moving Riordan in with Stokes. Benji had an okay game today, his touch was good and he drove at the defence but had little options either side at times. Good display from Hibs today but the lack of concentration at times is plain to see. Bamba defines the saying "the good, the bad, the ugly". Wins great tackles, looks up, gifts the ball away in really bad areas. Miller was head and shoulders MOM with Zemmama a close second. Good displays from the full backs and an all round hard working but skillful display at times. Would happily pay every week if the calibre of football remains at that level. United are a good side and at times due to our attacking play, we made them look very very ordinary first half.

Hibs Spain
03-10-2009, 05:30 PM
Stack-5 Didn't have much to do, but his distribution was very poor. Constantly lumping it up to Riordan.

Wotherspoon-6 Good solid game. Stayed tight to his man, defended well.
Hogg-6 Decent game bar gifting them a decent chance.
Bamba-7 Good solid centre half. One stupid decision to pass out of defence aside he was excellent.
Murray-6 Solid Game

Zemmama-7 Class act, although I wish he wouldn't overcook it at times.
Miller-7 First half he bossed it, faded a bit but came back in to it at the end.
McBride-7 Good solid shift. Great grafter.
Riordan-5 Wasted out on the left. Should have scored.

Benji-6 Held the ball up well at times. Was often the only one willing to move for a throw in. Sharpness will come with game time.
Stokes-5 Good effort in first half but his touch badly let him down at times today.Can't work out what Riordan did to miss that one from about three yards and I think it was Stokes from Zemamma's free kick,missed a header from about 10mm....ie didn't even make contact :confused:

The_Horde
03-10-2009, 05:32 PM
Can't work out what Riordan did to miss that one from about three yards and I think it was Stokes from Zemamma's free kick,missed a header from about 10mm....ie didn't even make contact :confused:

Think it just came in a bit too quick and was a tad too far in front of him.

Then it took a big bounce so he was off balance/stretching for it.

Teo10
03-10-2009, 05:39 PM
Think it just came in a bit too quick and was a tad too far in front of him.

Then it took a big bounce so he was off balance/stretching for it.

A very difficult one to take with what you have said above...not as easy a miss as it first seemed....

deek68
03-10-2009, 05:43 PM
Pretty much agree with most of that...

Would maybe bump McBride up to a 7 as I thought he was the only one really grafting out there today!

Possibly Stack down to 4 simply due to the fact that he had nothing to do, but still did it poorly...


Totally bemused by the lack of substitutions however...does Yogi have that little faith in the players on his bench??

Perhaps the players we have who can change a game were already on the park? Maybe the starting 11 wasn't right :dunno:

Having said that good first half. Zemmamma was superb.

RoYO!
03-10-2009, 06:08 PM
i think thats being quite harsh on stack. great double save and didnt have much else to do- no fault at goal. however in very tricky conditions he dealt with pass backs pretty well, no slices straight out the park and didnt look flustered. i think that we need to get some consistency in the defence and that means playing the same goalie regularly, esp when you consider how different the two goalies are.

Marabou Stork
03-10-2009, 06:15 PM
Can't work out what Riordan did to miss that one from about three yards and I think it was Stokes from Zemamma's free kick,missed a header from about 10mm....ie didn't even make contact :confused:

Chuckie from off of here did a big Ned Flanders scream that put him off.

Chuckie
03-10-2009, 06:25 PM
Chuckie from off of here did a big Ned Flanders scream that put him off.

True story...

PaulSmith
03-10-2009, 06:37 PM
Stack - 6 - just cause he didn't have anything to do

Wotherspoon - 8 - A future Premiership star
Hogg - 7 - Stopped Utd forwards
Bamba - 7- Great 1st half
Murray - 7 - Performances like this are just taken for granted these days from him.

Miller - 8 - Class.
McBride - 7 - Does the dirty work and will never be a superstar but every team needs one like him

Zemamma - 8 - Never since Latapy have a seen a player with so much vision, tricks and the ability to conjure something special from nothing
Riordan - 6 - A little disappointed in him today. Bad miss.

Benji - 6 - Thought that him playing just off Stokes didn't work.
Stokes - 6 - Ability but needs someone up there to help him out.


Overall though one of the most entertaining games I've been to in ages and long may it continue.

AL-Qaholik
03-10-2009, 06:50 PM
Every forward thinking Hibs player looked dangerous, what was to change? Nish? Galbraith for Benji would have been the only plausible substitution really, and Hibs looked capable of winning that with the players they had on. We don't NEED to make changes...

Galbraith for Stokes as IMO he didnt look dangerous (or particularly interested) in the second half... Refused to chase for anything, Galbraith would have run and run in the last 20 minutes.

AL-Qaholik
03-10-2009, 06:53 PM
i think thats being quite harsh on stack. great double save and didnt have much else to do- no fault at goal. however in very tricky conditions he dealt with pass backs pretty well, no slices straight out the park and didnt look flustered. i think that we need to get some consistency in the defence and that means playing the same goalie regularly, esp when you consider how different the two goalies are.

But about 5 hooks straight out the park aiming for Riordan on the left wing (who is never gonna win that kind of ariel battle...)

MyJo
03-10-2009, 06:56 PM
stack - 5
wotherspoon - 7
hogg - 7
bamba - 8
murray - 7
zemmama - :top marks
miller - 8
mcbride - 7
riordan - 8
stokes - 6
benji - 6

PaulSmith
03-10-2009, 07:01 PM
But about 5 hooks straight out the park aiming for Riordan on the left wing (who is never gonna win that kind of ariel battle...)

Maybe the 40mph wind had more to do with it.

Pete70
03-10-2009, 07:23 PM
Stack-5 Didn't have much to do, but his distribution was very poor. Constantly lumping it up to Riordan.

Wotherspoon-6 Good solid game. Stayed tight to his man, defended well.
Hogg-6 Decent game bar gifting them a decent chance.
Bamba-7 Good solid centre half. One stupid decision to pass out of defence aside he was excellent.
Murray-6 Solid Game

Zemmama-7 Class act, although I wish he wouldn't overcook it at times.
Miller-7 First half he bossed it, faded a bit but came back in to it at the end.
McBride-7 Good solid shift. Great grafter.
Riordan-5 Wasted out on the left. Should have scored.

Benji-6 Held the ball up well at times. Was often the only one willing to move for a throw in. Sharpness will come with game time.
Stokes-5 Good effort in first half but his touch badly let him down at times today.

And resulting in a United throw-in as ir sailed over Riordans head

euro Hibby
03-10-2009, 07:41 PM
Wotherspoon-6
Hogg-6
Bamba-7
Murray-6 Solid Game

Zemmama-7 C
Miller-7
McBride-7
Riordan-5

Benji-6
Stokes-6

Stack 5.5

Good performace apart from 20 minutes in the second half when we lost the iniative maybe due to the wind ? Unfortunate not to take all 3 points but can't really complain. Some good signs but we still need to find another gear to be 2nd place contenders.

Hibs Spain
03-10-2009, 07:55 PM
i think thats being quite harsh on stack. great double save and didnt have much else to do- no fault at goal. however in very tricky conditions he dealt with pass backs pretty well, no slices straight out the park and didnt look flustered. i think that we need to get some consistency in the defence and that means playing the same goalie regularly, esp when you consider how different the two goalies are.Stack,in the first half had,in real terms nothing to do. He had to deal with two corners which came across exactly where any goalie would have come for the ball.He didn't come and I find it absolutely astonishing that any fan watching that couldn't see how it almost resulted in two goals.He treble fumbled a simple nothing ball before he managed to pick it up and on numerous ocassions kicked the ball straight into their penalty box. He made no saves that a patient at the orthopaedic ward at the Infimary couldn't have saved in the second half and kicked about five in a row into touch by hooking the ball and two or three by slicing it.And the double save was a fumble that Maka would have been shot down for.. But then he just and only just recovered the situation which ended up a throw for them....

truehibernian
03-10-2009, 08:00 PM
Have to agree with HibsSpain on Stack. There was an even more glaring one in the second half when a corner was floated across right into where you would want the keeper coming to catch and he remained rooted to the goal line. One thing he has is a fantastic ability to deal with back passes however and he does not panic on the deck. But he needs to be more commanding that's for sure. Weaver had a good game today though....three cracking saves from Stokes, DW and Zemmama. On another day we would have won cosily.

AL-Qaholik
03-10-2009, 08:00 PM
Maybe the 40mph wind had more to do with it.

Thats just the thing...he was booting out the side the wind was COMING FROM!! Just very poor kicking.

CapitalHibs
03-10-2009, 08:00 PM
Stack,in the first half had,in real terms nothing to do. He had to deal with two corners which came across exactly where any goalie would have come for the ball.He didn't come and I find it absolutely astonishing that any fan watching that couldn't see how it almost resulted in two goals.He treble fumbled a simple nothing ball before he managed to pick it up and on numerous ocassions kicked the ball straight into their penalty box. He made no saves that a patient at the orthopaedic ward at the Infimary couldn't have saved in the second half and kicked about five in a row into touch by hooking the ball and two or three by slicing it.And the double save was a fumble that Maka would have been shot down for.. But then he just and only just recovered the situation which ended up a throw for them....

AAAAAAAAAAArgh!

Here we go again!:blah::blah:

Hibs Spain
03-10-2009, 08:22 PM
AAAAAAAAAAArgh!

Here we go again!:blah::blah:It's what happened.What's wrong with telling it how it was? Christ!!:confused:

Danderhall Hibs
03-10-2009, 08:43 PM
i think thats being quite harsh on stack. great double save and didnt have much else to do- no fault at goal. however in very tricky conditions he dealt with pass backs pretty well, no slices straight out the park and didnt look flustered. i think that we need to get some consistency in the defence and that means playing the same goalie regularly, esp when you consider how different the two goalies are.

There's a few folk on here who want him to fail - you just need to ignore them.

I do agree though that he should be coming for some of the crosses - he punched one away in the 2nd half but there was a corner earlier in the half that was right on top off him and he should've at least made an attempt for it.

From what I've seen though he's the best/most solid keeper we've got and we should get behind him instead scientifically examining every millisecond of his 90 minutes.


Maybe the 40mph wind had more to do with it.

Good shout. Might be the reason why Nicky Weaver also launched a couple out of the park as well?

I assume none of the guys criticising the kicking didn't notice how windy it was? His kicks in the 2nd half went so far stopped in the air and dropped straight down. I'm pretty sure it was the wind that caused that and not some kind of special spin he was putting on the ball.

PaulSmith
03-10-2009, 08:45 PM
Thats just the thing...he was booting out the side the wind was COMING FROM!! Just very poor kicking.

And maybe trying to compensate for the wind by looking to hit it far enough to his left for it to come back into play. Maybe that was the instruction from Hughes to hit the Dundee Utd left back, if he'd blootered it right down the middle there be an uproar saying that it was food and drink for Webster and Dods. I think sometimes we look for things in our goalies just for the sheer fact that they are a Hibs goalie!

Hibs Spain
03-10-2009, 08:50 PM
And maybe trying to compensate for the wind by looking to hit it far enough to his left for it to come back into play. Maybe that was the instruction from Hughes to hit the Dundee Utd left back, if he'd blootered it right down the middle there be an uproar saying that it was food and drink for Webster and Dods. I think sometimes we look for things in our goalies just for the sheer fact that they are a Hibs goalie!Noooooo.. He hooked them and hooks are rarely affected by the wind.

sleeping giant
03-10-2009, 08:51 PM
Maybe the 40mph wind had more to do with it.

:agree:

Cannae pin point a pass 3 quarters of the wat up the park in conditions like today.

jabis
03-10-2009, 08:52 PM
Stack-5 Didn't have much to do, but his distribution was very poor. Constantly lumping it up to Riordan.

Wotherspoon-6 Good solid game. Stayed tight to his man, defended well.
Hogg-6 Decent game bar gifting them a decent chance.
Bamba-7 Good solid centre half. One stupid decision to pass out of defence aside he was excellent.Murray-6 Solid Game

Zemmama-7 Class act, although I wish he wouldn't overcook it at times.
Miller-7 First half he bossed it, faded a bit but came back in to it at the end.
McBride-7 Good solid shift. Great grafter.
Riordan-5 Wasted out on the left. Should have scored.

Benji-6 Held the ball up well at times. Was often the only one willing to move for a throw in. Sharpness will come with game time.
Stokes-5 Good effort in first half but his touch badly let him down at times today.

you may have already been pulled up on this,(not read the thread)fantastic stopping,about 4..5 crap out balls,,,still think he's a player :thumbsup:

silverhibee
03-10-2009, 10:49 PM
Maybe the 40mph wind had more to do with it.

Think that was a factor that he missed the goal too.

sleeping giant
03-10-2009, 11:03 PM
Think that was a factor that he missed the goal too.

Wisnae that windy:grr:
:greengrin

matty_f
04-10-2009, 01:47 AM
Noooooo.. He hooked them and hooks are rarely affected by the wind.

This is true - the wind thinks "Ach, he's mis-hit that, I'll not bother with the physics that makes me affect everything else today and just let if follow the flight it would have taken on a windless day. Wait 'til he hits it well, though - ooooh then I'll show him up by making a nuisance of myself."

Septimus
04-10-2009, 03:52 AM
Think that Hibs were far and away the better team and were well worth a win. If they play like that every week we are in for a good season.

andyhibsboy
04-10-2009, 04:08 AM
Wotherspoon-6
Hogg-6
Bamba-7
Murray-6 Solid Game

Zemmama-7 C
Miller-7
McBride-7
Riordan-5

Benji-6
Stokes-6

Stack 5.5

Good performace apart from 20 minutes in the second half when we lost the iniative maybe due to the wind ? Unfortunate not to take all 3 points but can't really complain. Some good signs but we still need to find another gear to be 2nd place contenders.

u might be a bit optimistic there

hibsbollah
04-10-2009, 07:31 AM
Stack-5

Wotherspoon-7
Hogg-7
Bamba-7
Murray-6

Zemmama-9
Miller-7
McBride-7
Riordan-7

Benji-7
Stokes-7

To me, Zemmama was far and away the best player on the pitch. The first half he was totally unplayable and that left back must surely need counselling now.

Otherwise, I thought it was a solid performance by the rest of them. Very impressed with Stokes workrate, he's definitely not here just for a payday. Dundee Utd were as excellent for most of the second half as we were in the first and a draw was probably fair.

On another point, that was the quietest East Stand i can remember for a long time...you wouldnt think we were 2nd in the league with our most talented squad since Mowbrays time:rolleyes:

Barney McGrew
04-10-2009, 08:01 AM
I thought it was a good all round performance, particularly in the first half. Zemmama was excellent in the first 45, even being up against Dixon who's IMO one of the best left backs in the league.

Miller was class again, once he gets fully match fit he'll be frightening. Ant and Deek worked hard and on another day would have got a couple of goals. Even Benji upped the workrate and chased back which was great to see.

I can't believe some of the marks people are giving Bamba though, he did OK but his distrubution was dire, giving it away in really dangerous areas of the park.

Their goal was very disappointing too, yet another one we've lost by switching off when the opposition get a throw in and not marking them properly.

Expecting Rain
04-10-2009, 08:04 AM
Stack-5 Poor kick-outs but a decent second half save.

Wotherspoon-8 Kept Conway quiet eventually getting subbed and showed a lot of class.
Hogg-6 Good first half, a couple of slip ups in the second half.
Bamba-5 Erratic, the good, the bad and the ugly.
Murray-6 Solid enough.

Zemmama-9 Sensational in the first half, good inthe second half.
McBride-7 Excellent signing knows what the game is all about.
Miller-7 Classy and industrious.
Riordan-7 Good link up play with Stokes.

Benji-6 Decent performance, preferable to Nish imho.
Stokes-6 Worked hard and showed a bit of class on occasions.

Barrylavety
04-10-2009, 08:25 AM
stack - 5
wotherspoon - 7
hogg - 7
bamba - 8
murray - 7
zemmama - 9 :not worth
miller - 9 :thumbsup:
mcbride - 7
riordan - 8
benji - 6
stokes - 7

bring on the jambos!
:nade:

Hibs Spain
04-10-2009, 08:54 AM
This is true - the wind thinks "Ach, he's mis-hit that, I'll not bother with the physics that makes me affect everything else today and just let if follow the flight it would have taken on a windless day. Wait 'til he hits it well, though - ooooh then I'll show him up by making a nuisance of myself."If you play golf you'll understand better how silly you've just been..:greengrin .. Now a slice.. That's a totally different thing..

ancient hibee
04-10-2009, 10:26 AM
Galbraith for Stokes as IMO he didnt look dangerous (or particularly interested) in the second half... Refused to chase for anything, Galbraith would have run and run in the last 20 minutes.
So that guy that picked up the ball on our bye line and after taking on the whole of the united left side and ended up at their corner flag was a different Stokes was it?

matty_f
04-10-2009, 10:37 AM
If you play golf you'll understand better how silly you've just been..:greengrin .. Now a slice.. That's a totally different thing..

if you read anything you've posted you'll realise how silly you've been.

lEXO
04-10-2009, 10:40 AM
Stack,in the first half had,in real terms nothing to do. He had to deal with two corners which came across exactly where any goalie would have come for the ball.He didn't come and I find it absolutely astonishing that any fan watching that couldn't see how it almost resulted in two goals.He treble fumbled a simple nothing ball before he managed to pick it up and on numerous ocassions kicked the ball straight into their penalty box. He made no saves that a patient at the orthopaedic ward at the Infimary couldn't have saved in the second half and kicked about five in a row into touch by hooking the ball and two or three by slicing it.And the double save was a fumble that Maka would have been shot down for.. But then he just and only just recovered the situation which ended up a throw for them....
Poor kicking by Stack today.That apart your slavering again.:rolleyes:

Broken Gnome
04-10-2009, 10:42 AM
I'd rather Stack made sure he put at least 70 yards on every kick out in those conditions rather than slicing a few like Weaver did. If he was questionable in his aim of a few, is it really such a big deal? Enough to vilify him?

People need to be a wee bit more objective I think. He's not universally popular obviously, fair enough, and he has his deficiencies, but to castigate his performance for the slightest things to enhance your own agenda...

Hibs Spain
04-10-2009, 11:01 AM
if you read anything you've posted you'll realise how silly you've been.I talk sense and nothing but sense. You might not like it but I know what I'm talking about when it comes to seeing games with my own eyes week in week out :wink:

Perspective
04-10-2009, 11:25 AM
Stack (6) - I'm not a fan but I thought he was ok yesterday in difficult decisions. He got good distance on his kicks and took few risks given the wind, but I wish he'd come off his line. The punch-outs don't fill me with much confidence either. Still Maka for me.

Wotherspoon (6) - Not a right-back, but would persist with him there until January. Enthusiasm and enrgy makes up for lack of defensive technical ability. Good first touch, always shows for the ball but his excellent delivery is wasted that far back.

Hogg (7) - Keep it up! Much more like his form of last season.

Bamba (6) - Thought he was better than he has been recently, but still the odd lapses in concentration. His go-go-gadget limbs get him out of trouble constantly.

Murray (6) - Solid if unspectacular. If Booth isn't ready I'd still like to see us sign two natural full-backs in January.

Zemmama (7) - Fell out of it in the second half but what a talent he is. Dixon's a good left-back but he was torn apart early on.

Miller/McBride (7) - We pressed the ball brilliantly high up the pitch, with these two constantly nicking it off the United midfield toes. Combined that with intelligent use of the ball.

Riordan (6) - Missed two good chances but his attitude is improving. He's working harder but still isn't fit enough to maintain that throughout a game (same for Stokes). But if he keeps going like that he'll win me round yet.

Beni (6) - Delighted to see him back in the team. Holds the ball up much better than Nish and brings others into play. Didn't get much joy going forward but Yogi clearly has him enjoying his football again. Can't believe I saw him tracking back to the half-way line to win a tackle (could even have seen red for two clumsy ones).

Stokes (6) - Still not fit enough but there's obviously a player in there.

fife hfc
04-10-2009, 11:28 AM
I thought it was a great performance yesterday and with a bit more luck (and Deek not doing a Van Vossen) we could have won that game very easily.

Stack 6 Not too much to do and apart from some questionable kicks was okay.

wotherspoon 8 I thought he was excellent and always comfortable on the ball.

Murray 7 quieter game but solid in defence

Bamba 7 has the makings of a top class defender if he just erases the lapses in concentration

Hogg 7 Solid defensive game and coped better than Utd with the wind

Miller 9 excellent game and ran the midfield

Mcbride 8 looks a great foil for Miller and looks a far better player than was suggested when he signed

zemmama 9 When on the ball absolutely fantastic but felt we never got the ball him enough in the second half. Brilliant goal.

Stokes 7 worked very hard and linked well with the other forwards. Unlucky not to score.

Riordan 7 worked very hard and attacked well but how the hell did he miss:grr:

Benji 7 worked hard and considering it was his first start for a long time he did well linking play and driving at the Utd defence.


Overall I felt we played well and deserved a victory but will play worse and win.

Hibs90
04-10-2009, 01:50 PM
Stack - 6 - Thought he had a couple of good saves, distrubution was crap though.

Wotherspoon - 6 - Did his defensive work well, should be played in midfield though.

Hogg - 6 - Much better from our captain.

Bamba - 5 - Not his best game to be honest.

Murray - 6 - Decent performance

McBride - 6.5 - Done his job well

Miller - 7 - This boy is class!

Zemmama - 7 - Quality.

Stokes - 5 - Looked unfit, not interested, poor first touch.

Benji - 6 - Liked the look of Benji yesterday, one of his good performances.

Deek - 6 - Should have scored.

lEXO
04-10-2009, 02:10 PM
I talk sense and nothing but sense. You might not like it but I know what I'm talking about when it comes to seeing games with my own eyes week in week out :wink:
:faf:

JimBHibees
04-10-2009, 05:23 PM
Stack,in the first half had,in real terms nothing to do. He had to deal with two corners which came across exactly where any goalie would have come for the ball.He didn't come and I find it absolutely astonishing that any fan watching that couldn't see how it almost resulted in two goals.He treble fumbled a simple nothing ball before he managed to pick it up and on numerous ocassions kicked the ball straight into their penalty box. He made no saves that a patient at the orthopaedic ward at the Infimary couldn't have saved in the second half and kicked about five in a row into touch by hooking the ball and two or three by slicing it.And the double save was a fumble that Maka would have been shot down for.. But then he just and only just recovered the situation which ended up a throw for them....

Complete crock, Stack was steady enough on what was a very difficult day for a goalie. He should keep the jersey.

JimBHibees
04-10-2009, 05:24 PM
I'd rather Stack made sure he put at least 70 yards on every kick out in those conditions rather than slicing a few like Weaver did. If he was questionable in his aim of a few, is it really such a big deal? Enough to vilify him?

People need to be a wee bit more objective I think. He's not universally popular obviously, fair enough, and he has his deficiencies, but to castigate his performance for the slightest things to enhance your own agenda...

Totally agree.

Danderhall Hibs
04-10-2009, 06:23 PM
I talk sense and nothing but sense. You might not like it but I know what I'm talking about when it comes to seeing games with my own eyes week in week out :wink:

spot on (http://www.bootsopticians.com/default.aspx)

Jack
04-10-2009, 06:51 PM
Miller and Zemmama described by various posters as giving an outstanding contribution to the game but only one person has given a 10. So what did they not do. How would they get a 10?

Stack, who overall I thought was pretty poor mainly for his distribution, doesn't have a fail mark against him!

So Miller and Zemmama 10, Stack 2.

Everyone else pass marks 7+.

Danderhall Hibs
04-10-2009, 06:59 PM
Miller and Zemmama described by various posters as giving an outstanding contribution to the game but only one person has given a 10. So what did they not do. How would they get a 10?

Stack, who overall I thought was pretty poor mainly for his distribution, doesn't have a fail mark against him!

So Miller and Zemmama 10, Stack 2.

Everyone else pass marks 7+.

IF you can achieve a 10 you've got to score/make a couple/few goals, win the game and be a participant for most of the 90 minutes IMO.

Which rules out Miller and Zemamma for getting 10/10. I'd definitely score Miller as a minimum 8.5 though.

Out of interest did you think Weaver was pish as well?

matty_f
04-10-2009, 07:43 PM
I talk sense and nothing but sense. You might not like it but I know what I'm talking about when it comes to seeing games with my own eyes week in week out :wink:

There's a huge difference between talking about seeing the games with your own eyes, and understanding what you've seen enough to be able to talk sensibly about it.

Jack
04-10-2009, 08:06 PM
IF you can achieve a 10 you've got to score/make a couple/few goals, win the game and be a participant for most of the 90 minutes IMO.

Which rules out Miller and Zemamma for getting 10/10. I'd definitely score Miller as a minimum 8.5 though.

Out of interest did you think Weaver was pish as well?

Thanks for the explanation. I might suggest though that a 0, zero, would be pish!

Weaver played for them so unless he was exceptional or abysmal I dont notice/care how he/they play!

He was neither exceptional nor abysmal.

TornadoHibby
04-10-2009, 08:24 PM
AAAAAAAAAAArgh!

Here we go again!:blah::blah:

Sounds like you weren't at the game and are simply assuming that HibsSpain is "making it up"! :confused:

Well he ain't! :grr:

All true! :wink:

Danderhall Hibs
04-10-2009, 08:33 PM
Thanks for the explanation. I might suggest though that a 0, zero, would be pish!

Weaver played for them so unless he was exceptional or abysmal I dont notice/care how he/they play!

He was neither exceptional nor abysmal.

He had a similar game to Maka from where I was sitting. Saved a couple, kicked a couple straight into touch - most of them didn't go out though. Funny how Stack stood out as being bad but Weaver didn't. :confused:

Jack
04-10-2009, 09:01 PM
He had a similar game to Maka from where I was sitting. Saved a couple, kicked a couple straight into touch - most of them didn't go out though. Funny how Stack stood out as being bad but Weaver didn't. :confused:

Like I said he plays for them so I dont really care about him.

I am assessing Stack on what he did and didn't do. I agree with Hibs Spain, Stack didn't have a difficult save to make that any keeper should make in his sleep. The other things a keeper should at least be competent at, commanding his area and distribution, was poor yesterday.

I hope he gets better at these things but giving him pass marks, 5+, I just dont think is warranted.

Danderhall Hibs
04-10-2009, 09:03 PM
Like I said he plays for them so I dont really care about him.

I am assessing Stack on what he did and didn't do. I agree with Hibs Spain, Stack didn't have a difficult save to make that any keeper should make in his sleep. The other things a keeper should at least be competent at, commanding his area and distribution, was poor yesterday.

I hope he gets better at these things so giving him pass marks, 5+, I just dont think is warranted.

The objective Sunday Times gave him 6/10. Maybe you're looking at him with Zibi tinted glasses on?

bingo70
04-10-2009, 09:06 PM
Like I said he plays for them so I dont really care about him.

I am assessing Stack on what he did and didn't do. I agree with Hibs Spain, Stack didn't have a difficult save to make that any keeper should make in his sleep. The other things a keeper should at least be competent at, commanding his area and distribution, was poor yesterday.

I hope he gets better at these things so giving him pass marks, 5+, I just dont think is warranted.

He didn't gift them a goal or made any gaffs that could have led to a goal, after the keepers we've had in recent seasons thats all i'm after.

As for him not having any saves to make, i remember reading Peter Schmeichal saying that sometimes if a keeper hasn't had a save to make he's probably had a good game as he's organised his defence and got his angles and positioning right.

matty_f
04-10-2009, 09:10 PM
The objective Sunday Times gave him 6/10. Maybe you're looking at him with Zibi tinted glasses on?

Yes, but did the Sunday Times reporter watch the game with his own eyes?

Feed McGraw
04-10-2009, 09:12 PM
It's what happened.What's wrong with telling it how it was? Christ!!:confused:

Well why don`t you tell it like it`s been for the last couple of years with Makalamby, AKA " The Laxative " ?

Toaods
04-10-2009, 09:15 PM
As for him not having any saves to make, i remember reading Peter Schmeichal saying that sometimes if a keeper hasn't had a save to make he's probably had a good game as he's organised his defence and got his angles and positioning right.

...well when Stack is at Man Utd as first choice he can do likewise.

Danderhall Hibs
04-10-2009, 09:18 PM
...well when Stack is at Man Utd as first choice he can do likewise.

You know as well as I do that he'll not get a game for them.

Maka will be in with the bricks down there very shortly.

matty_f
04-10-2009, 09:19 PM
You know as well as I do that he'll not get a game for them.

Maka will be in with the bricks down there very shortly.

That's if Man City don't break the bank for him first. :agree:

Toaods
04-10-2009, 09:24 PM
Stack - 5 uncertain.

Wotherspoon - 7 good game. Unklike Whittaker, tackled someone who had to withdraw from the game on a stretcher. Fab prospect.

Hogg - 6 good game, one absolute shocker of a pass.

Bamba - 6 mixed bag as usual this season.

Murray - 7 some tough, crunching challenges.Just what we want.


McBride - 6 Happy with him overall, better player than we were led to believe.

Zemmama - 7 Great goal, some terrific runs but as with such talents, he became a bit greedy when an easier ball was on.

Miller - 7 some great passing and footwork. Has a brain that looks to work qiuicker than most others in midfield.

Benji - 6 surprise starter but I thought did well, having to watch his step after a soft booking (no physio required).

Deek - 6 plenty effort, bad miss, seemed to get dragged into a skirmish with Kovesivic too often.

Stokes - 6 mixed bag but lucky to stay on the park after appearing to be the aggressor with Prince Bawbag.

Toaods
04-10-2009, 09:28 PM
You know as well as I do that he'll not get a game for them.

Maka will be in with the bricks down there very shortly.

:greengrin

an honourable pint of your favourite tipple says Makalambay's next club has a better standing in the game than the one Stack ends up with.

Danderhall Hibs
04-10-2009, 09:31 PM
:greengrin

an honourable pint of your favourite tipple says Makalambay's next club has a better standing in the game than the one Stack ends up with.

Is the bet based on Stack's next club or the last one of his career? We might need an independent adjuticator on whether Dunfermline's a bigger club than Falkirk. :greengrin

Speedway
05-10-2009, 10:46 AM
Stack,in the first half had,in real terms nothing to do. He had to deal with two corners which came across exactly where any goalie would have come for the ball.He didn't come and I find it absolutely astonishing that any fan watching that couldn't see how it almost resulted in two goals.He treble fumbled a simple nothing ball before he managed to pick it up and on numerous ocassions kicked the ball straight into their penalty box. He made no saves that a patient at the orthopaedic ward at the Infimary couldn't have saved in the second half and kicked about five in a row into touch by hooking the ball and two or three by slicing it.And the double save was a fumble that Maka would have been shot down for.. But then he just and only just recovered the situation which ended up a throw for them....

But it didn't. Makas errors (too many to list) do.

An orthopaedic can't go for a sprint all over the pitch like Maka that's for sure. Neither keeper is high quality, especially not Maka but the defence look more settled and confident with Stack behind them than they do with Maka.

It's also interesting to note that there are no benny hill circus like comedy of defensive errors leading to goals when Stack is in nets.


Is the bet based on Stack's next club or the last one of his career? We might need an independent adjuticator on whether Dunfermline's a bigger club than Falkirk. :greengrin

:agree:

I was thinking Hereford or Aldershot.

Expecting Rain
05-10-2009, 10:52 AM
There's a huge difference between talking about seeing the games with your own eyes, and understanding what you've seen enough to be able to talk sensibly about it.

Sometimes your perception of the game can be influenced by where you are watching it from, i like the cross section of opinions on this board in general, which is why i bother to look at it and offer my own humble opinion.

Hibs Spain
05-10-2009, 08:37 PM
The objective Sunday Times gave him 6/10. Maybe you're looking at him with Zibi tinted glasses on?Don't read todays Sun for Christ sake.. That joker must be you in diguise!

matty_f
05-10-2009, 08:40 PM
Sometimes your perception of the game can be influenced by where you are watching it from, i like the cross section of opinions on this board in general, which is why i bother to look at it and offer my own humble opinion.

:agree: I agree with that totally.

Hibs Spain
05-10-2009, 08:45 PM
Yes, but did the Sunday Times reporter watch the game with his own eyes?Very droll.. But the bottom line is I DO see just about every game and some romantic like you that bases his views generally on reports,really doesn't have the right to contest my views. If I see a ball coming across the six yard box seven feet in the air and the goalie doesn't come for it,then that's what happened. You,the press, anyone else on this site will never be able to convince me that that didn't happen :wink:

matty_f
05-10-2009, 08:47 PM
Very droll.. But the bottom line is I DO see just about every game and some romantic like you that bases his views generally on reports,really doesn't have the right to contest my views. If I see a ball coming across the six yard box seven feet in the air and the goalie doesn't come for it,then that's what happened. You,the press, anyone else on this site will never be able to convince me that that didn't happen :wink:

Been at every home game this season - I know you haven't.:wink:


Edit - and my season ticket is closer to the goal than yours. :greengrin:

Hibs Spain
05-10-2009, 09:07 PM
Been at every home game this season - I know you haven't.:wink:


Edit - and my season ticket is closer to the goal than yours. :greengrin: Hahahaa.. Well,one game..If your seat is closer to the goal than mine,you could have a number of optical issues. You could be too close to see things clearly at one end and too far away to see things clearly at the other.Now,Vision World ,Main St,Dmains or 130 Lothian Rd, are leaders in opthalmics,have a vast range of designer and credit crunch busting frames and are well worth a visit.Discount to die for if you tell the staff you're a good buddy of mine :rolleyes: :cool2:

matty_f
05-10-2009, 09:11 PM
Hahahaa.. Well,one game..If your seat is closer to the goal than mine,you could have a number of optical issues. You could be too close to see things clearly at one end and too far away to see things clearly at the other.Now,Vision World ,Main St,Dmains or 130 Lothian Rd, are leaders in opthalmics,have a vast range of designer and credit crunch busting frames and are well worth a visit.Discount to die for if you tell the staff you're a good buddy of mine :rolleyes: :cool2:

Seat's perfect for getting a good look at the goalkeepers. Just in line with the penalty spot, and far enough back to get a good view of the whole goal. I have the perfect seat for observing close hand both goalkeepers over the 45 minutes, and I get a good, unobstructed look at the other end to see how that keeper is doing too.

Eyesight checked regualry, and contact lenses in good working order, thanks very much.

Your seat is too close to the half way line for you to be able to talk as authoritatively on the goalkeepers' performance as I am, and it shows in the amount of pish you talk.:greengrin

Hibs Spain
05-10-2009, 09:20 PM
Seat's perfect for getting a good look at the goalkeepers. Just in line with the penalty spot, and far enough back to get a good view of the whole goal. I have the perfect seat for observing close hand both goalkeepers over the 45 minutes, and I get a good, unobstructed look at the other end to see how that keeper is doing too.

Eyesight checked regualry, and contact lenses in good working order, thanks very much.

Your seat is too close to the half way line for you to be able to talk as authoritatively on the goalkeepers' performance as I am, and it shows in the amount of pish you talk.:greengrinMy professional assessment of your condition comes back to an eyesite issue.Varifocals in the form of contacts are rarely as effective as specs. We can help you. Eeehhm ... Would the keeper at the other end not be ours for 45 mins?:confused: You know the one 100yds away?..

Hibs Spain
05-10-2009, 09:22 PM
You know as well as I do that he'll not get a game for them.

Maka will be in with the bricks down there very shortly.You're rich man's Stack did well for Man U a couple of days ago?

matty_f
05-10-2009, 09:22 PM
My professional assessment of your condition comes back to an eyesite issue.Varifocals in the form of contacts are rarely as effective as specs. We can help you. Eeehhm ... Would the keeper at the other end not be ours for 45 mins?:confused: You know the one 100yds away?..


Yes, what part of my post suggests otherwise? Perhaps it's your own eyesight that is failing, you are of a certain age, after all...:greengrin

Hibs Spain
05-10-2009, 09:26 PM
Yes, what part of my post suggests otherwise? Perhaps it's your own eyesight that is failing, you are of a certain age, after all...:greengrinLike wine my friend, like the wine.. Mellow,mature..That kind of age? ...Just before it turns to vinegar..:boo hoo:

Jonnyboy
05-10-2009, 09:27 PM
Very droll.. But the bottom line is I DO see just about every game and some romantic like you that bases his views generally on reports,really doesn't have the right to contest my views. If I see a ball coming across the six yard box seven feet in the air and the goalie doesn't come for it,then that's what happened. You,the press, anyone else on this site will never be able to convince me that that didn't happen :wink:

Can't disagree with that HS. Stack was flaky on Saturday IMO and didn't inspire confidence at all.

Given that you have correctly analysed the faults in his game - using your own eyes to form the views you express on here - can I ask you to share your thoughts on Maka's faults - he has some so lets not kid on he doesn't - and then how you think BOTH keepers could improve their performances?

lEXO
05-10-2009, 09:31 PM
Very droll.. But the bottom line is I DO see just about every game and some romantic like you that bases his views generally on reports,really doesn't have the right to contest my views. If I see a ball coming across the six yard box seven feet in the air and the goalie doesn't come for it,then that's what happened. You,the press, anyone else on this site will never be able to convince me that that didn't happen :wink:
Still slavering i see.:rolleyes:

Hahahaa.. Well,one game..If your seat is closer to the goal than mine,you could have a number of optical issues. You could be too close to see things clearly at one end and too far away to see things clearly at the other.Now,Vision World ,Main St,Dmains or 130 Lothian Rd, are leaders in opthalmics,have a vast range of designer and credit crunch busting frames and are well worth a visit.Discount to die for if you tell the staff you're a good buddy of mine :rolleyes: :cool2:
Not good advertising for any specsavers with your blinkered views.Maybe a pair of bins and an enema might help.:cool2:

Hibs Spain
06-10-2009, 10:31 AM
Can't disagree with that HS. Stack was flaky on Saturday IMO and didn't inspire confidence at all.

Given that you have correctly analysed the faults in his game - using your own eyes to form the views you express on here - can I ask you to share your thoughts on Maka's faults - he has some so lets not kid on he doesn't - and then how you think BOTH keepers could improve their performances?Maka's faults? On the very odd occasion he'll come for a cross which even he can't reach.The number of times that results in a goal is negligable.He,like any other goalie will get in a "will I won't I" situation when deciding whether to come for a ball.As this is impossible to avoid I don't consider it a fault but a fact of life for goalies.His distribution when throwing out generally can be a little Ill thought out.Good points..Great shot stopper,great at crosses even if he just gets a finger tip to a ball he's diverting it.Handling is good ..Talk of dodgy handling is totally blown out of proportion.Kicking is near perfect.His height gives him an advantage you can't buy,doesn't affect him getting down to low balls.Main scope for improvement would be getting a strategy in place for throwing/passing the ball out.Stack? Would have to learn to come for crosses but I doubt if you'll be able to drum that into him at his age.Needs to work on his kicking.He's an average goalie.Just like the Aberdeen and Killie goalie ...At best!

Danderhall Hibs
06-10-2009, 11:04 AM
Kicking is near perfect.

It's so perfect that he managed to pinpoint the exact angle of Miller's arse required for the ball to rebound straight into the net last season.

erskine-hibby
06-10-2009, 11:10 AM
Maka's faults? On the very odd occasion he'll come for a cross which even he can't reach.The number of times that results in a goal is negligable.He,like any other goalie will get in a "will I won't I" situation when deciding whether to come for a ball.As this is impossible to avoid I don't consider it a fault but a fact of life for goalies.His distribution when throwing out generally can be a little Ill thought out.Good points..Great shot stopper,great at crosses even if he just gets a finger tip to a ball he's diverting it.Handling is good ..Talk of dodgy handling is totally blown out of proportion.Kicking is near perfect.His height gives him an advantage you can't buy,doesn't affect him getting down to low balls.Main scope for improvement would be getting a strategy in place for throwing/passing the ball out.Stack? Would have to learn to come for crosses but I doubt if you'll be able to drum that into him at his age.Needs to work on his kicking.He's an average goalie.Just like the Aberdeen and Killie goalie ...At best!

Maka
Good points...
1) He's tall
2) He's a good guy
3) Distribution- On the whole pretty good
Bad points...
1)Handling- more than often takes two or more attempts to hold the ball
2)Crosses- For a guy of his hight how does he make himself look so small?
on the occasions he does get there see #1.
3)Positioning- Little sense of positioning and often found well out of position
due to #1&2
4)Heart- To be a good goalie you have to be able to put your head in where it
hurts...Maka doesn't.
Stack
Good points...
1) Experience- You can't buy it
2) Positioning- Seems to know his angles, probably due to #1
3) Heart- Not afraid to stick his head in where it hurts.
4) Handling- could be better, but in general good.
Bad points...
1) Crosses- Is not in the least commanding and more than often fails to go for
them in the first place.
2) Distribution- Needs to work on this badly.

Overall Stack a better goalie IMHO.
That said if Maka can cut down all the errors he makes( I know you don't seem to see them, but as you say I see them with my own eyes and just because you say they don't happen doesn't make it so) and gets a bit more heart about him then he could turn out to be a very good goalie indeed.

Perspective
06-10-2009, 11:22 AM
Can experience really be used as a quality Stack has over Maka?

It's not the most reliable site, but Wikipedia shows that at 28 years old he has 74 senior first-team games to his name. We're also the ninth club he's played for having failed to establish himself anywhere else.

Compare that to Maka, who at 23 has already played 52 times (again, according to Wikipedia) for us.

For someone of his age Stack has pretty poor experience. For what it's worth, Maka is also considered to be good enough for a Belgian national squad that contains several tremendous young prospects.

erskine-hibby
06-10-2009, 11:30 AM
Can experience really be used as a quality Stack has over Maka?

It's not the most reliable site, but Wikipedia shows that at 28 years old he has 74 senior first-team games to his name. We're also the ninth club he's played for having failed to establish himself anywhere else.

Compare that to Maka, who at 23 has already played 52 times (again, according to Wikipedia) for us.

For someone of his age Stack has pretty poor experience. For what it's worth, Maka is also considered to be good enough for a Belgian national squad that contains several tremendous young prospects.

Yes, experience is invaluable IMHO.
As for being good enough for the Belgian squad, how many players has Scotland had in it's squad, or in deed hibs for that matter, that have been "good enough for the squad" but have proved anything other than??

Perspective
06-10-2009, 11:54 AM
Yes, experience is invaluable IMHO.
As for being good enough for the Belgian squad, how many players has Scotland had in it's squad, or in deed hibs for that matter, that have been "good enough for the squad" but have proved anything other than??

But that's my point. Just because he's older doesn't mean he's more experienced.

Maka must have learned just as much from everything he's been through (highs and lows with us). Surely experience relates to the number of games you've played and situations you've handled (no pun intended)?

I'd also disagree with you that he lacks heart, handling or cross-ball ability. In the top six at the tail end of last season he excelled in the big games against Hearts and the Old Firm and his shut-out stats are excellent (a fact conveniently ignored by his critics).

I'm not anti-Stack just annoyed at what I believe is a waste of a good young talent in Maka. I totally agree with HibsSpain. How hard is it going to be to find a better keeper with his build? And as for the supposed list of mistakes he makes - you only have to look at the likes of Mark Brown, John Ruddy, Jamie Langfield in recent weeks (all apparently better keepers than Maka according to some on here) throw them in.

erskine-hibby
06-10-2009, 12:08 PM
But that's my point. Just because he's older doesn't mean he's more experienced.

Maka must have learned just as much from everything he's been through (highs and lows with us). Surely experience relates to the number of games you've played and situations you've handled (no pun intended)?

I'd also disagree with you that he lacks heart, handling or cross-ball ability. In the top six at the tail end of last season he excelled in the big games against Hearts and the Old Firm and his shut-out stats are excellent (a fact conveniently ignored by his critics).

I'm not anti-Stack just annoyed at what I believe is a waste of a good young talent in Maka. I totally agree with HibsSpain. How hard is it going to be to find a better keeper with his build? And as for the supposed list of mistakes he makes - you only have to look at the likes of Mark Brown, John Ruddy, Jamie Langfield in recent weeks (all apparently better keepers than Maka according to some on here) throw them in.

I think Yogi would disagree with you on the experience bit. Not simply because he is older (which I didn't mention BTW) but because he has been around and seen/done a lot more.

As far as his handling of cross balls, that, I suppose, is a matter of opinion and apart from that last minute dash to the edge of the box at Tynie, I can't think of too many times when he has been competent at them.

Heart? when has Maka shown any heart? Most of the time he dances about like a big fairy and for someone of his build/stature this is not good enough if he wants to nail down a place.

His build???? How on earth has that got anything to do with it? He is either a good keeper or not. At the moment he is not, IMHO, but has potential to be good. Stack on the other hand is a competent keeper, something we have sorely lacked for a few years now, and nothing more, but at the moment that is more than Maka offers.

Jonnyboy
06-10-2009, 12:57 PM
Maka's faults? On the very odd occasion he'll come for a cross which even he can't reach.The number of times that results in a goal is negligable.He,like any other goalie will get in a "will I won't I" situation when deciding whether to come for a ball.As this is impossible to avoid I don't consider it a fault but a fact of life for goalies.His distribution when throwing out generally can be a little Ill thought out.Good points..Great shot stopper,great at crosses even if he just gets a finger tip to a ball he's diverting it.Handling is good ..Talk of dodgy handling is totally blown out of proportion.Kicking is near perfect.His height gives him an advantage you can't buy,doesn't affect him getting down to low balls.Main scope for improvement would be getting a strategy in place for throwing/passing the ball out.Stack? Would have to learn to come for crosses but I doubt if you'll be able to drum that into him at his age.Needs to work on his kicking.He's an average goalie.Just like the Aberdeen and Killie goalie ...At best!

First off I'm delighted you acknowledge that Maka has faults :wink:

As you say, goalie's often have an 'will I, won't I' situation to make a split second judgement on. On Saturday last, Stack was faced with two such decisions for cross ball's. The first rocketed across the six yard box at a helluva speed and so Stack decided to leave it. The other cross he should have claimed. That gives him a 50% success failure rate in dealing with crosses, at least in the game used as an example.

The fact that Maka has a 'will I, won't I' situation with crosses is not a good thing IMO. If defenders don't know whether he's coming for a cross or not they might leave the ball and as a result a goal may be conceded. IMO Maka needs to let his defenders know that he's either coming for it or he's not. In fairness the same could be asked of Stack. If you look at last season there were a few occasions when Maka and Jones got into a fankle because of the point I'm making and a number of times goals were conceded as a result.

Now don't get me wrong, I think Maka is a fine prospect but he needs to learn fast to eradicate his faults.

Finally, it gives me no pleasure to criticise players but I hope you'll agree my criticism is of a positive rather than negative nature

Hibs Spain
06-10-2009, 04:37 PM
First off I'm delighted you acknowledge that Maka has faults :wink:

As you say, goalie's often have an 'will I, won't I' situation to make a split second judgement on. On Saturday last, Stack was faced with two such decisions for cross ball's. The first rocketed across the six yard box at a helluva speed and so Stack decided to leave it. The other cross he should have claimed. That gives him a 50% success failure rate in dealing with crosses, at least in the game used as an example.

The fact that Maka has a 'will I, won't I' situation with crosses is not a good thing IMO. If defenders don't know whether he's coming for a cross or not they might leave the ball and as a result a goal may be conceded. IMO Maka needs to let his defenders know that he's either coming for it or he's not. In fairness the same could be asked of Stack. If you look at last season there were a few occasions when Maka and Jones got into a fankle because of the point I'm making and a number of times goals were conceded as a result.

Now don't get me wrong, I think Maka is a fine prospect but he needs to learn fast to eradicate his faults.

Finally, it gives me no pleasure to criticise players but I hope you'll agree my criticism is of a positive rather than negative natureWhen I mentioned will I won't I..I was referring to the really hard to defend crosses not the bread and butter two that Stack had to deal with in quick succession in the first half. I have to disagree with you and say both were no brainers in terms of coming for them.You've missed my point I think when you say that the fact Maka has "Will I won't I" moments is not a good thing. I said that all goalies have that.. It's impossible for any goalie not to have that issue.So I don't consider that a fault in any goalie..In relation to misunderstandings with Jones I think the majority of those problems were Jones's fault but Maka should have been more assertive with his captain although as a youngster,shouting at your captain 10 years or so your senior probably isn't easy.

Hibs Spain
06-10-2009, 04:39 PM
Maka
Good points...
1) He's tall
2) He's a good guy
3) Distribution- On the whole pretty good
Bad points...
1)Handling- more than often takes two or more attempts to hold the ball
2)Crosses- For a guy of his hight how does he make himself look so small?
on the occasions he does get there see #1.
3)Positioning- Little sense of positioning and often found well out of position
due to #1&2
4)Heart- To be a good goalie you have to be able to put your head in where it
hurts...Maka doesn't.
Stack
Good points...
1) Experience- You can't buy it
2) Positioning- Seems to know his angles, probably due to #1
3) Heart- Not afraid to stick his head in where it hurts.
4) Handling- could be better, but in general good.
Bad points...
1) Crosses- Is not in the least commanding and more than often fails to go for
them in the first place.
2) Distribution- Needs to work on this badly.

Overall Stack a better goalie IMHO.
That said if Maka can cut down all the errors he makes( I know you don't seem to see them, but as you say I see them with my own eyes and just because you say they don't happen doesn't make it so) and gets a bit more heart about him then he could turn out to be a very good goalie indeed.Your comment in Maka's bad points column.Point two.. Is mind bogglingly ridiculous.:bye:

TornadoHibby
06-10-2009, 04:41 PM
But that's my point. Just because he's older doesn't mean he's more experienced.

Maka must have learned just as much from everything he's been through (highs and lows with us). Surely experience relates to the number of games you've played and situations you've handled (no pun intended)?

I'd also disagree with you that he lacks heart, handling or cross-ball ability. In the top six at the tail end of last season he excelled in the big games against Hearts and the Old Firm and his shut-out stats are excellent (a fact conveniently ignored by his critics).

I'm not anti-Stack just annoyed at what I believe is a waste of a good young talent in Maka. I totally agree with HibsSpain. How hard is it going to be to find a better keeper with his build? And as for the supposed list of mistakes he makes - you only have to look at the likes of Mark Brown, John Ruddy, Jamie Langfield in recent weeks (all apparently better keepers than Maka according to some on here) throw them in.

An excellent post IMO! :agree:

Little point though in trying to debate the merits of either keeper compared to the other when you have guys who simply want one of the two not to play irrespective of the replacement! :confused:

That's the problem with this subject as I read it! :grr:

lEXO
06-10-2009, 04:47 PM
An excellent post IMO! :agree:

Little point though in trying to debate the merits of either keeper compared to the other when you have guys who simply want one of the two not to play irrespective of the replacement! :confused:

That's the problem with this subject as I read it! :grr:
:thumbsup:

matty_f
06-10-2009, 10:01 PM
An excellent post IMO! :agree:

Little point though in trying to debate the merits of either keeper compared to the other when you have guys who simply want one of the two not to play irrespective of the replacement! :confused:

That's the problem with this subject as I read it! :grr:

:agree: I'd be happy with either keeper starting. What annoys me is the ridiculous putting down of one keeper in order to champion the cause of the other.

FWIW, I don't think there's much between Maka and Stack - both are more than capable goalkeepers.

Perspective
06-10-2009, 10:07 PM
I think Yogi would disagree with you on the experience bit. Not simply because he is older (which I didn't mention BTW) but because he has been around and seen/done a lot more.

As far as his handling of cross balls, that, I suppose, is a matter of opinion and apart from that last minute dash to the edge of the box at Tynie, I can't think of too many times when he has been competent at them.

Heart? when has Maka shown any heart? Most of the time he dances about like a big fairy and for someone of his build/stature this is not good enough if he wants to nail down a place.

His build???? How on earth has that got anything to do with it? He is either a good keeper or not. At the moment he is not, IMHO, but has potential to be good. Stack on the other hand is a competent keeper, something we have sorely lacked for a few years now, and nothing more, but at the moment that is more than Maka offers.

What has he seen/done that Maka hasn't?

His build is important because for years with keepers like Andersson, McNeil etc people were crying out for a tall keeper. It's an asset you can't develop on the training pitch and Maka makes a lot of saves and claims a lot of crosses that others simply could not because of their height. I don't see how that's irrelevant.

I don't even think Stack is competent. I think he's a complete liability and at least Maka is young enough to develop further.

For his critics, I will ask again. Look at his shut-out record, compare it to these so-called better keepers and come back to me.

Jonnyboy
06-10-2009, 10:10 PM
When I mentioned will I won't I..I was referring to the really hard to defend crosses not the bread and butter two that Stack had to deal with in quick succession in the first half. I have to disagree with you and say both were no brainers in terms of coming for them.You've missed my point I think when you say that the fact Maka has "Will I won't I" moments is not a good thing. I said that all goalies have that.. It's impossible for any goalie not to have that issue.So I don't consider that a fault in any goalie..In relation to misunderstandings with Jones I think the majority of those problems were Jones's fault but Maka should have been more assertive with his captain although as a youngster,shouting at your captain 10 years or so your senior probably isn't easy.

Thanks for that :agree:

As another poster says there's really little between the guys and downing one to talk up another is pretty poor stuff IMO

erskine-hibby
07-10-2009, 07:31 AM
Your comment in Maka's bad points column.Point two.. Is mind bogglingly ridiculous.:bye:

Thought you would like that one.
It does seem to me that just because he interacts with the fans before the games he has got more support. Had he been more of an aloof character then i wonder if his support would be the same.

Danderhall Hibs
07-10-2009, 07:34 AM
I think the majority of those problems were Jones's fault but Maka should have been more assertive with his captain although as a youngster,shouting at your captain 10 years or so your senior probably isn't easy.

There's 10 years between Jones and Maka?


What has he seen/done that Maka hasn't?

His build is important because for years with keepers like Andersson, McNeil etc people were crying out for a tall keeper. It's an asset you can't develop on the training pitch and Maka makes a lot of saves and claims a lot of crosses that others simply could not because of their height. I don't see how that's irrelevant.

I don't even think Stack is competent. I think he's a complete liability and at least Maka is young enough to develop further.

For his critics, I will ask again. Look at his shut-out record, compare it to these so-called better keepers and come back to me.

For someone who normally speaks so much sense I'm amazed at some of the stuff you're claiming in this post.

erskine-hibby
07-10-2009, 07:46 AM
What has he seen/done that Maka hasn't?

Well for one he, as pointed out, has had more clubs so must, by association, have more experience.

His build is important because for years with keepers like Andersson, McNeil etc people were crying out for a tall keeper. It's an asset you can't develop on the training pitch and Maka makes a lot of saves and claims a lot of crosses that others simply could not because of their height. I don't see how that's irrelevant.

So we should take someone on just because he's big????
Totally irrelevant!!!

I don't even think Stack is competent. I think he's a complete liability and at least Maka is young enough to develop further.

So Yogi must be incompetent to go for him in the first place then??
Crap! he is competent, not brilliant by any stretch of the imagination, but competent, I have never claimed anything else. Maka, on the other hand, has proved himself anything but. Yes, he has the potential to become a very decent keeper, but is prone to far too many gaffs. This is not just my opinion this is also the opinion of most pundits, sports writers and commentators...but I suppose they are all just anti-Maka and don't know what they are talking about.
Oh! and don't forget Yogi too and the coaching staff who see both day after day, week after week and still pick Stack over Maka. They don't know any better either eh????

For his critics, I will ask again. Look at his shut-out record, compare it to these so-called better keepers and come back to me.

There was me thinking football was a team sport??


I want Maka to prove me and everyone else wrong, but presently he has to be second choice IMHO.

Hibs Spain
07-10-2009, 08:14 AM
Thanks for that :agree:

As another poster says there's really little between the guys and downing one to talk up another is pretty poor stuff IMODowning one to talk up another is cheap.But when one's good and getting better and the other's a washed up average jouneyman,I guess it's just stating the facts :wink:

Jonnyboy
07-10-2009, 10:30 AM
Downing one to talk up another is cheap.But when one's good and getting better and the other's a washed up average jouneyman,I guess it's just stating the facts :wink:

Proving that opinions make the football world go around :greengrin

lEXO
07-10-2009, 02:33 PM
Downing one to talk up another is cheap.But when one's good and getting better and the other's a washed up average jouneyman,I guess it's just stating the facts :wink:
Downing one to talk up another is cheap.Hello Mr Cheap.As for the rest of your post, still slavering i see.

lEXO
07-10-2009, 02:40 PM
:agree: I'd be happy with either keeper starting. What annoys me is the ridiculous putting down of one keeper in order to champion the cause of the other.

FWIW, I don't think there's much between Maka and Stack - both are more than capable goalkeepers.
:top marks.Some silly comments attacking one or the other of our keepers.Whoever is in the team will get my support,but to slate either to justify the inclusion of the other is just mean, blinkered(Hibs pain} and ignorant.

GreenPJ
07-10-2009, 02:41 PM
I want Maka to prove me and everyone else wrong, but presently he has to be second choice IMHO.

How do you propose he does that if you don't play him?

truehibernian
07-10-2009, 02:53 PM
The "Hibs keeper" syndrome is perpetuated by the lazy media who have latched onto some errors made by Zibby and McNeill and continued to spout drivel about how "it could only happen to a Hibs keeper". Paul Mitchell, Richard Gordon and the Beeb, for me, are the sole reason this keeps raising its ugly head. Boruc makes SPL and international clangers, yet he is still quoted as being a multi million pounb keeper. McGregor, if he wasn't playing for Rangers, would be in the Jamie Langfield mould. Good keeper, prone to the odd mistake, nothing outstanding. Stack is playing behind a new defence and it will take time to adjust the the SPL and Yogi's way of wanting a keeper to be involved in play. That said, HS does have a point regarding his command of the box when crosses are either whipped or floated in. The times I have seen him, other than Brechin (when he had a couple of great stops), he seems nervous at coming for balls, opting to punch. He is however superb on the deck and I can't recall him fluffing a kick or clearance. Maka is a great keeper too (Rangers at Ibrox was one outstanding performance), but he tends to dwell on a mistake which affects his confidence. I think Yogi though is a better man manager than Mixu, and he will guide him through mistakes better.

erskine-hibby
07-10-2009, 03:28 PM
How do you propose he does that if you don't play him?

He can prove himself in reserve games and in training. If and when the coaches see such improvement i am sure they will put him in, or when Stack makes any real mistakes or gets injured.

lEXO
07-10-2009, 03:55 PM
The "Hibs keeper" syndrome is perpetuated by the lazy media who have latched onto some errors made by Zibby and McNeill and continued to spout drivel about how "it could only happen to a Hibs keeper". Paul Mitchell, Richard Gordon and the Beeb, for me, are the sole reason this keeps raising its ugly head. Boruc makes SPL and international clangers, yet he is still quoted as being a multi million pounb keeper. McGregor, if he wasn't playing for Rangers, would be in the Jamie Langfield mould. Good keeper, prone to the odd mistake, nothing outstanding. Stack is playing behind a new defence and it will take time to adjust the the SPL and Yogi's way of wanting a keeper to be involved in play. That said, HS does have a point regarding his command of the box when crosses are either whipped or floated in. The times I have seen him, other than Brechin (when he had a couple of great stops), he seems nervous at coming for balls, opting to punch. He is however superb on the deck and I can't recall him fluffing a kick or clearance. Maka is a great keeper too (Rangers at Ibrox was one outstanding performance), but he tends to dwell on a mistake which affects his confidence. I think Yogi though is a better man manager than Mixu, and he will guide him through mistakes better.
good post mate.Nice to see some constructive critisicm not just slagging for the sake of it.I,ve got faith in both our keepers.Lets face it,if they were both great they would,nt be playing for Hibs.