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RIP
25-09-2009, 09:05 AM
I'm probably just nostalgic but I have memories of the team of '73 running wi the ba' at their feet. Heads and body forward pressing from midfield to the opposition penalty box, getting to the wings and short crosses.

Dribbling - my son asked the other day what that was - pretty much a lost art at ER.

Am I wrong in think Alex Cropley used to dribble as did Alex Edwards> Jimmy O'Rourke would run forward with the ball, through the channels?

We have Miller and Zemmama in midfield that are both capable of agressive carrying of the ba'. Both carry a goal threat. If we could find two good passers and tacklers to play alongside them we could have two DM's and two AM's behind Stokes and Riordan

Makalambay
Wotherspoon, Hogg, Murray, Hanlon
McBride, Cregg
Zemmama, Miller
Stokes, Riordan
Benji to come on at 60 minutes
In attack with a full backs pressing the midfield 4 could be a 6
In defence the back 4 could become a 6

truehibernian
25-09-2009, 09:19 AM
Good post - we were saying exactly the same thing on Tuesday night, the fact that players seem either scared or incapable of taking that wee chance to take men on. Hibs in all honesty have not had genuine width in the side for many many years. Zemmama came on and showed what players can achieve by being confident enough to run with the ball. Latapy was the same. Hughes however seems to like this quick circulation of the ball which means not many players take their time on the ball. Mixu was the opposite and liked the ball in the final third as quick as possible. Strangely enough, Alex Miller's side had players (McAllister, O'Neil, Jackson, Evans, Collins, Weir) who liked to take men on. Even Joe T dribbled......but that was just down his chin.

heretoday
25-09-2009, 09:20 AM
Good post. I well remember Edwards and Brownlie dovetailing on the right wing, the idea being to get the ball across eventually to the chaps who scored the goals. It was good to watch.

It's not so easy for the dribbler now what with zonal marking and professional fouling going on.
Skill like that has now to be matched with strength. Wispy guys like Hamilton or Quinn wouldn't get a look in.

ancient hibee
25-09-2009, 09:50 AM
Hamilton was in no way wispy and Quinn was a quiet assassin.

Andy74
25-09-2009, 09:57 AM
Galbraith ran with the ball a few times when he came on on saturday, one leading to the free kick.

Once Zemmam gets back into the side after Ramadan we should also start to see him taking men on. Miller also had a couple of nice runs at the weekend.

It's all about getting into full swing and i feel we are miles from that, we are just a bit too relaiant on sitting back, making passes along the back 4 and McBride and not much going on ahead. We need some guys capable of width and movement, Galbraith and Zemmama need to get more time and i'm sure they will.

hibbie02
25-09-2009, 09:58 AM
Good post. I have been sitting wondering for a while about this. Passing is all well and good but when you cannae seem to pass to another green jersey, it becomes a pointless and self defeating exercise.

Zoumma likes a wee run and pass and Galbraith seems to want to try it out too. We will get nowhere just trying to pass through other teams, we are not Arsenal. And even Arsenal are being found out now as they have no real dribblers left.

mim
25-09-2009, 10:11 AM
Good post. I have been sitting wondering for a while about this. Passing is all well and good but when you cannae seem to pass to another green jersey, it becomes a pointless and self defeating exercise.

Zoumma likes a wee run and pass and Galbraith seems to want to try it out too. We will get nowhere just trying to pass through other teams, we are not Arsenal. And even Arsenal are being found out now as they have no real dribblers left.

...except Wenger. :wink:

stubru59
25-09-2009, 10:53 AM
Yes, those were the days. But would add that guys like Edwards, Cropley and Brownlie - though not big lads - had a bit of grit about them.

None of this, is that a fifty fifty ball? Well I'll no bother then.

Running wi the ball and making a 20-25 yrd pass to a team-mate, something you often see in the SPL, never mind ER.

God Petrie
25-09-2009, 11:40 AM
Once Zemmam gets back into the side after Ramadan we should also start to see him taking men on. Miller also had a couple of nice runs at the weekend.


Ramadan finished on the 20th of September. Zemamma is the best player at Hibs - he should start every single week.

lapsedhibee
25-09-2009, 11:45 AM
Yes, those were the days. But would add that guys like Edwards, Cropley and Brownlie - though not big lads - had a bit of grit about them.
Perception of height's a funny thing. I remember JB (though not AE or AC) as being a full-sized player, whereas in this here pic (http://www.londonhearts.com/images/hibs2/pages/Hibs03.htm) Brownlie looks smaller than Thomson Allan (who I thought of as fairly small for a keeper). Though JB does look as big as robust pivot John Madsen, who was sung of as "Big John Madsen" at the time. :dizzy:

Peevemor
25-09-2009, 11:48 AM
I remember Dougie Bell being a master of the art in his short time at Hibs - unfortunately it was nearly always back and forth along the halfway line.

Green Mikey
25-09-2009, 11:50 AM
Running with the ball requires both skill and pace. Sadly these two qualities are not abundant in the current Hibs team. Players like Rankin, McBride, Cregg, Wotherspoon, McCormack and Hanlon simply don't have the ability to regularly run with the ball.

Maybe Hibs players ran with the ball more in the '70s because we had better players:dunno:

heretoday
25-09-2009, 12:11 PM
Hamilton was in no way wispy and Quinn was a quiet assassin.

He was wispy! Not an ounce of fat....well maybe a bit. They used to call him The Ghost though perhaps because he was seldom seen at training!

Sir David Gray
25-09-2009, 12:13 PM
I'm probably just nostalgic but I have memories of the team of '73 running wi the ba' at their feet. Heads and body forward pressing from midfield to the opposition penalty box, getting to the wings and short crosses.

Dribbling - my son asked the other day what that was - pretty much a lost art at ER.

Am I wrong in think Alex Cropley used to dribble as did Alex Edwards> Jimmy O'Rourke would run forward with the ball, through the channels?

We have Miller and Zemmama in midfield that are both capable of agressive carrying of the ba'. Both carry a goal threat. If we could find two good passers and tacklers to play alongside them we could have two DM's and two AM's behind Stokes and Riordan

Makalambay
Wotherspoon, Hogg, Murray, Hanlon
McBride, Cregg
Zemmama, Miller
Stokes, Riordan
Benji to come on at 60 minutes
In attack with a full backs pressing the midfield 4 could be a 6
In defence the back 4 could become a 6

I realise that this wasn't the main point of your post but I don't think Miller does carry a huge goal threat to be honest. I think he will be a very good signing for us but he has only scored 11 goals in 117 career starts, which is only really three or four goals every season.

I just thought it was worth pointing that out so that people aren't too disappointed if Miller doesn't get quite a few goals this season.

Exiled Hibby
25-09-2009, 12:54 PM
The late 60's and early 70's was when I first starting going to ER - It was a vintage era with greats such as Marinello, Cormack, Stein, Stanton, Blackley and Cropley. For sheer entertainment value though, my hero was Arthur Duncan. He could beat any full back for pace and then either score, put in a great cross (left fit only) or trip over and fall on his e**e.
Sad that when he eventually scored a cup final winner it was an og.

Never thought of Edwards as a dribbler, more of a cultured wide midfielder who could land a ball on Gordon or O'Rourke's heid just about every time.

Best dribbler I've seen at ER - Crunchie Macallister (cant remember the spelling)

Happy memories though

Golden Bear
25-09-2009, 12:57 PM
Running with the ball requires both skill and pace. Sadly these two qualities are not abundant in the current Hibs team. Players like Rankin, McBride, Cregg, Wotherspoon, McCormack and Hanlon simply don't have the ability to regularly run with the ball.

Maybe Hibs players ran with the ball more in the '70s because we had better players:dunno:


Whittaker has good abilities to dribble his way round opponents - either to their left or right.

IMO we really miss Whitty --------- or even a semi competent right back!

Green Mikey
25-09-2009, 01:07 PM
Whittaker has good abilities to dribble his way round opponents - either to their left or right.

IMO we really miss Whitty --------- or even a semi competent right back!

:agree:

Whitty was a good dribbler and had the ability to drive the team forward, an essential skill for a attacking fullback. In the same team as Whitty we had Scott Brown another that had the ability to pick the ball up and carry it forward and inject some pace into the game.

Hibby Bairn
25-09-2009, 01:29 PM
Running with the ball requires both skill and pace. Sadly these two qualities are not abundant in the current Hibs team. Players like Rankin, McBride, Cregg, Wotherspoon, McCormack and Hanlon simply don't have the ability to regularly run with the ball.

Maybe Hibs players ran with the ball more in the '70s because we had better players:dunno:

Hardly any players take others on now. Because they are all coached the same structured way from the age of about 6!! Before that kids played takey on (:thumbsup:) and 3 and no in (:thumbsup:) which honed dribbling, being greedy and "beating a player" skills. Then adults took over and got the wee yins passing all the time.

No co-incidence that the world's best players tend to be able to beat a man. e.g. Ronaldo, Messi etc.

sahib
25-09-2009, 06:04 PM
Players that can carry the ball and beat a man, or better still two men, change games. As has been pointed out the world's top rated players have this ability. Opposition tactics and formations are scuppered by these players.

lapsedhibee
25-09-2009, 08:56 PM
Arsenal are being found out now as they have no real dribblers left.


Players that can carry the ball and beat a man, or better still two men, change games. As has been pointed out the world's top rated players have this ability. Opposition tactics and formations are scuppered by these players.

Arsenal have about half a dozen players who can do this, though they don't necessarily zip about with the ball glued to their toe like, say, Jimmy Johnstone of Celtc. Diaby is probably the player to watch for those who don't think there's any dribbling capability at the Emirates.

Davy Mac
25-09-2009, 09:03 PM
Very few laddies with dribbling ability are encouraged these days

Luckily my middle boy of three is encouraged by his coach but the pressure to win is still there and most other clubs/parents still focus on winning the game at all costs.

Sad but true and our culture is still to hoof it and tackle.

Elreeko
25-09-2009, 10:14 PM
I think that there is a fundamental problem with the lack of physical approach - in that Hibs do not have one - there is a basic need for Hibs to have a bite not only in midfield but up front. Do we need to add to the present squad or can the present players step up to the mark??

jakedance
25-09-2009, 10:30 PM
Great first post on the lost art of dribbling. They were talking about the same thing on radio Scotland yesterday.

I've always thought of it as such an important part of the game. You take a guy on and the game immediately opens up and creates space for others too.

Whiitaker (a player I really admired) is mentioned above and there is another thread about one of my favourite ever players at Easyer Road, Ivan Sproule. Two guys who would run with the ball but had a lot of criticism from large sections of our support. Maybe modern fans have to take some responsibility, a lot of us are really quick to complain about mistakes rather than encourage risk taking.

Hopefully Galbraith can do the business. We badly need to see someone who take the ball to the byline.

nickwhibs
25-09-2009, 10:39 PM
Yeah I also agree that this is something that is lacking at Hibs and in the Scottish game in general. I love when a certain player get's the ball and everyone stands up or shouts 'go on!' in anticipation of them beating a man or doing something exciting. As has been mentioned above Crunchie was brilliant at taking his man on and got the crowd on their feet. Also more recently Ivan got the crowd excited and you would hear shouts of 'go on Ivan!'. Zemmama is the only one in current team who excites the fans, possibly Riordan on his day. Although hopefully Galbraith will give us this in the future.

heretoday
26-09-2009, 01:53 PM
There's dribbling and there's kicking it ahead and running after it. Edwards used to dribble. Duncan used to kick and rush because he had such great speed. That was thrilling to watch too but not so skillful.

Jimmy Johnstone was the supreme dribbler.

RIP
29-09-2009, 10:45 AM
Motherwell was the first game this season we have had so many players running wi' the ba'

Zouma, Stokes (for a bit), Deeks, Nishy, Miller, Murray, Wotherspoon, Benji, Galbraith all did this to a greater or lesser degree

Great tactic for scoring goals, winning free kicks and importantly - ENTERTAINING

I'd take that style of football every week, regardless of winning or getting beat!!:thumbsup:

Golden Bear
29-09-2009, 10:48 AM
Motherwell was the first game this season we have had so many players running wi' the ba'

Zouma, Stokes (for a bit), Deeks, Nishy, Miller, Murray, Wotherspoon, Benji, Galbraith all did this to a greater or lesser degree

Great tactic for scoring goals, winning free kicks and importantly - ENTERTAINING

I'd take that style of football every week, regardless of winning or getting beat!!:thumbsup:

:agree:

Good to know that so many of the players read Hibs net and then put our thoughts into practice!


:wink:

--------
29-09-2009, 11:08 AM
Perception of height's a funny thing. I remember JB (though not AE or AC) as being a full-sized player, whereas in this here pic (http://www.londonhearts.com/images/hibs2/pages/Hibs03.htm) Brownlie looks smaller than Thomson Allan (who I thought of as fairly small for a keeper). Though JB does look as big as robust pivot John Madsen, who was sung of as "Big John Madsen" at the time. :dizzy:


THAT takes me back.

Onion would only be a teenager there, though - like Sloop (2nd right, middle row). They both look quite misleadingly gentle wee souls there.

John Madsen was big, but not IIRC tall. Bean-pole centre-halves are over-rated, IMHO - mainly on the evidence of guys like John Madsen, Sloop, and John McNamee, none of whom had any trouble getting the head to the ball (or the opposing centre-forward on occasion) and all of whom were quick over the ground and solid tacklers to boot.

(EVER so solid tacklers, and gratifyingly ready to put the boot in as well. :devil:)

On a tonsorial note, odd to see Peter Marinello with a short haircut, and Paddy Quinn with hair. Nice photo - 1967, maybe? Thanks for that.