Students

[puff the dragon]

Free loading spongers.

Why should we working folk pay for their education by giving them grants when in theroy they should get a decent job out of it and make more than the majority of tax payers.

Unless you are studying law or science (REAL science - none of your sports science pish) then there is zero point in getting a degree. You might as well hang toilet paper on the wall (I should know, I have a business degree and my the last 7 years of work place experience is worth 1,000 time more than my degree is in employers eyes).

So stop moaning about how the world owes you 4 years of getting pished and get a job. Contribute you wasters!!

:grr:

[Mikey_1875]

Free loading spongers.

Why should we working folk pay for their education by giving them grants when in theroy they should get a decent job out of it and make more than the majority of tax payers.

Unless you are studying law or science (REAL science - none of your sports science pish) then there is zero point in getting a degree. You might as well hang toilet paper on the wall (I should know, I have a business degree and my the last 7 years of work place experience is worth 1,000 time more than my degree is in employers eyes).

So stop moaning about how the world owes you 4 years of getting pished and get a job. Contribute you wasters!!

:grr:

So its ok for you to have your 4 years of fun but not anyone else? reeks of sour grapes, plenty people find jobs with any type of degree. Just out of interest how did you do in your degree, did you do any work placements outside of it ?

[hibbytam]

What about students who work as well? And being students, they're more willing to work rubbish hours for rubbish pay, the sort of thing no-one else will do.

And why just law and science? Are these the only degrees that contribute to society?

[Wembley67]

Just because you have a degree in a certain field does not mean that you will be looking for work in that area.

At my current job we have a countless amount of extremely intelligent graduates that have came from the some of the world's top universities with a baffling range of degrees.

Who would have thought a phd in neuroscience would enable you to be a top investment manager!!

A lot of employers will take on the graduates first as it shows that they have what it takes to see something out and the capabilities to push themselves unlike many straight out of school employees.

Bit of ramble :greengrin

[puff the dragon]

What about students who work as well? And being students, they're more willing to work rubbish hours for rubbish pay, the sort of thing no-one else will do.

And why just law and science? Are these the only degrees that contribute to society?

I was a student who worked as well, didn't get any grants and have now worked hard to pay off the loan I took out. These students are fine.

Science degrees are certainly the only ones that contribute - Doctors need one, and it shows an analytical mind if you have a science degree - e.e. Maths.

Law does contribute as long as you don't go onto work for those no-win-no-fee compensation parasites.

If you want to do business degrees, get a job first and do it through the business world.

But some are just plain pointless where we should never contribute a penny in loans or grants - for example Golf Course Design, History of Filmaking, Latin etc etc etc.

---------- Post added at 06:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:33 PM ----------


Just because you have a degree in a certain field does not mean that you will be looking for work in that area.

At my current job we have a countless amount of extremely intelligent graduates that have came from the some of the world's top universities with a baffling range of degrees.

Who would have thought a phd in neuroscience would enable you to be a top investment manager!!

A lot of employers will take on the graduates first as it shows that they have what it takes to see something out and the capabilities to push themselves unlike many straight out of school employees.

Bit of ramble :greengrin

You've proved my point dude - a science degree shows you can do anything. A degree in media studies shows you can read the sun.

[Bayern Bru]

Free loading spongers.

Why should we working folk pay for their education by giving them grants when in theroy they should get a decent job out of it and make more than the majority of tax payers.

Unless you are studying law or science (REAL science - none of your sports science pish) then there is zero point in getting a degree. You might as well hang toilet paper on the wall (I should know, I have a business degree and my the last 7 years of work place experience is worth 1,000 time more than my degree is in employers eyes).

So stop moaning about how the world owes you 4 years of getting pished and get a job. Contribute you wasters!!

:grr:

Hi there, I'm one of the "free-loading drunk spongers" that you have an issue with. You might be interested to know that since I started university back in 2006, I have had a job in every major holiday period, often finishing at 11.30pm five nights a week. I also had a job during term time for a while - added to the fact that I have never had a student grant or loan whatsoever. Freeloader? I think not. Hard worker with rubbish hours and crap pay? Yes.

As it happens, you don't speak for every employer out there and most that I've spoken to or had contact with prefer a combination of work experience as well as a decent degree, certainly in the field that my degree covers (which is pretty expansive).

Finally, congratulations on tarring every student with the same brush. I have never once thought that anyone has owed me anything, and neither have the people that I am friendly with at universities across the UK.

Think before you bash the keyboard next time, eh?

[Hainan Hibs]

For every student that does see it as a 4 year piss up there will be a student doing 2 part time jobs just to pay for food and a roof over their head.

I'm at uni and don't see it as a 4 year piss up, I went to Uni because a degree is needed for the thing I want to do. Don't get me wrong, there are quite a few who have a billy big time attitude who believe they are above everyone else, but there are many who don't have that attitude and work hard.

I don't like when all students are tagged as wasters out on the piss all the time, as there are many who work their arse off for a degree.

[Wembley67]

I was a student who worked as well, didn't get any grants and have now worked hard to pay off the loan I took out. These students are fine.

Science degrees are certainly the only ones that contribute - Doctors need one, and it shows an analytical mind if you have a science degree - e.e. Maths.

Law does contribute as long as you don't go onto work for those no-win-no-fee compensation parasites.

If you want to do business degrees, get a job first and do it through the business world.

But some are just plain pointless where we should never contribute a penny in loans or grants - for example Golf Course Design, History of Filmaking, Latin etc etc etc.

---------- Post added at 06:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:33 PM ----------



You've proved my point dude - a science degree shows you can do anything. A degree in media studies shows you can read the sun.

The degree in neuroscience was an example, what I'm saying is if you can get to the top of your choice of degree irrespective of what it is then it shows that you can commit and take in a shed load of information therefore you would probably be suitable for a good position within a company.

That's not speculation that is fact.

[GlesgaeHibby]

Free loading spongers.

Why should we working folk pay for their education by giving them grants when in theroy they should get a decent job out of it and make more than the majority of tax payers.

Unless you are studying law or science (REAL science - none of your sports science pish) then there is zero point in getting a degree. You might as well hang toilet paper on the wall (I should know, I have a business degree and my the last 7 years of work place experience is worth 1,000 time more than my degree is in employers eyes).

So stop moaning about how the world owes you 4 years of getting pished and get a job. Contribute you wasters!!

:grr:

I think the bit I've highlighted in bold is why students get support.

Students when they graduate are more likely to get a better job --> earn more --> pay more tax over a working lifetime than a non graduate. Surely to get onto that ladder, we students deserve a bit help to do so? I've had to work through term times, take all the hours god sends during summers to make ends meet.

Keep up with the times as well. Student's haven't received grants in years. We get loans now, loans I'll end up paying back for years.

I feel though that too many people are being encouraged to go to university, and that there is almost a pressure on school students to get to university.

We should be more concerned about the ****bags spongeing money off our benefits support with no intention of doing a days work.

[iwasthere1972]

Free loading spongers.

Why should we working folk pay for their education by giving them grants when in theroy they should get a decent job out of it and make more than the majority of tax payers.

Unless you are studying law or science (REAL science - none of your sports science pish) then there is zero point in getting a degree. You might as well hang toilet paper on the wall (I should know, I have a business degree and my the last 7 years of work place experience is worth 1,000 time more than my degree is in employers eyes).

So stop moaning about how the world owes you 4 years of getting pished and get a job. Contribute you wasters!!

:grr:

You don't half write a load of rubbish for someone with a business degree. Is it a degree in other folks business you have?

My daughter is a student and also works part-time to help her make ends meet. She's not studying science pish as you eloquently put it and she certainly is not a sponger. At the end of her studies she will hopefully end up in a well paid job at which time she will not only be paying back her loan but also contributing to the taxman.

So stop moaning and get on with your life. :wink:

[Bayern Bru]

You don't half write a load of rubbish for someone with a business degree. Is it a degree in other folks business you have?

My daughter is a student and also works part-time to help her make ends meet. She's not studying science pish as you eloquently put it and she certainly is not a sponger. At the end of her studies she will hopefully end up in a well paid job at whic time she will not only be payng back her loan but also contributing to the taxman.

So stop moaning and get on with your life. :wink:

:top marks

[Phil D. Rolls]

Free loading spongers.

Why should we working folk pay for their education by giving them grants when in theroy they should get a decent job out of it and make more than the majority of tax payers.

Unless you are studying law or science (REAL science - none of your sports science pish) then there is zero point in getting a degree. You might as well hang toilet paper on the wall (I should know, I have a business degree and my the last 7 years of work place experience is worth 1,000 time more than my degree is in employers eyes).

So stop moaning about how the world owes you 4 years of getting pished and get a job. Contribute you wasters!!

:grr:

Have to agree to an extent. I've expressed my dismay on another thread about the people who show up at "yooni", for the sake of it. They whinge about having to take loans, yet seem to have plenty of cash to spend on mobile phones and such like.

Then when they qualify the first thing they do is get another loan so that they can live the lifestyle that was sold to them when they signed up for their course.

I have to say I resent the implication that students spend 4 years getting p*shed though. My course only lasts three years. :boo hoo:

[The_Todd]

Good grief.

Maybe things were different when you were lad up mill, but living costs these days are extortionate. Rent, bills, food come to a serious amount especially in Edinburgh - one of the most expensive student cities in the UK.

Even with a full 4000 per year loan I still worked a part time job doing all the hours under the sun to make ends meet. I can assure you there was no freeloading going on here.

[PiemanP]

I do agree with the OP in the fact that there are too many 'fuddy' degrees in silly subjects that are no more than an extended college courses. You can get a degree in almost anything these days and all it does is take the prestige out of proper degrees such as maths, english, science etc.

There are also far too many Uni's which should not have a Uni status IMO, Napier being one in edinburgh i can think of. Entry standards should also be set igher aswell IMO.

All part of labours grand idea that every kid should have a degree, no matter what in...

[The_Todd]

I do agree with the OP in the fact that there are too many 'fuddy' degrees in silly subjects that are no more than an extended college courses. You can get a degree in almost anything these days and all it does is take the prestige out of proper degrees such as maths, english, science etc.

There are also far too many Uni's which should not have a Uni status IMO, Napier being one in edinburgh i can think of. Entry standards should also be set igher aswell IMO.

All part of labours grand idea that every kid should have a degree, no matter what in...

A couple of points

1: Whats wrong with Napier? Being a Napier alumni I can tell you it's a damn fine University, with a fantastic Computing school. It has great facilities, attracts students from all around the world and a very high percentage of Napier graduates go on to gainful employment so they must be doing something right. You also forget that universities make money as well through research which is surely good for the economy?

2: Non traditional universities were converted from polytechnics by the Conservative government so how can you blame Labour for that?

[Phil D. Rolls]

I do agree with the OP in the fact that there are too many 'fuddy' degrees in silly subjects that are no more than an extended college courses. You can get a degree in almost anything these days and all it does is take the prestige out of proper degrees such as maths, english, science etc.

There are also far too many Uni's which should not have a Uni status IMO, Napier being one in edinburgh i can think of. Entry standards should also be set igher aswell IMO.

All part of labours grand idea that every kid should have a degree, no matter what in...

On my course you can enter via an access course at Adam Smith college. Adam Smith worry about their results, and usually everyone passes. They then go to the University, who also worry about their results, and very few people fail.

I am not knocking my fellow students, as there are some excellent people have come in from that route. However, there are a few who I wouldn't trust to post a letter, who will be doing a very responsible job soon, and they haven't got a scooby.

[PiemanP]

A couple of points

1: Whats wrong with Napier? Being a Napier alumni I can tell you it's a damn fine University, with a fantastic Computing school. It has great facilities, attracts students from all around the world and a very high percentage of Napier graduates go on to gainful employment so they must be doing something right. You also forget that universities make money as well through research which is surely good for the economy?

2: Non traditional universities were converted from polytechnics by the Conservative government so how can you blame Labour for that?


Napier has very low entry requirments and has a lot of degrees that IMO are not degree standard. I think this devalues the whole degree qualification.

[lyonhibs]

Such a load of myopic pish written about students, this time by someone who was themselves a student - a misinformed one at that.

What are those wonderful free grants you speak of, and how would I have got my hands of them at Uni??

Or do you mean student loans, which have to be repaid when students start earning??

Yes, there are some ludicrous degrees, but a lot of degree student will have a degree which gives them knowledge and a qualification that you can't get "on the job"

My job makes use of my "pishy" degree every day - how would you suggest I converse fluently in French without a degree-level qualification in that language??

[Speedy]

Free loading spongers.

Why should we working folk pay for their education by giving them grants when in theroy they should get a decent job out of it and make more than the majority of tax payers.

Unless you are studying law or science (REAL science - none of your sports science pish) then there is zero point in getting a degree. You might as well hang toilet paper on the wall (I should know, I have a business degree and my the last 7 years of work place experience is worth 1,000 time more than my degree is in employers eyes).

So stop moaning about how the world owes you 4 years of getting pished and get a job. Contribute you wasters!!

:grr:

As someone else has pointed out if they are earning more than the majority of tax payers then they will also be paying more tax than the majority of tax payers.

Would you say that your degree had any influence in getting you your past 7 years of work experience?

[SloopJB]

Free loading spongers.

Why should we working folk pay for their education by giving them grants when in theroy they should get a decent job out of it and make more than the majority of tax payers.

Unless you are studying law or science (REAL science - none of your sports science pish) then there is zero point in getting a degree. You might as well hang toilet paper on the wall (I should know, I have a business degree and my the last 7 years of work place experience is worth 1,000 time more than my degree is in employers eyes).

So stop moaning about how the world owes you 4 years of getting pished and get a job. Contribute you wasters!!

You've proved my point dude - a science degree shows you can do anything. A degree in media studies shows you can read the sun.


:grr:

A degree in media studies may also teach a person to spell "theory"

you go girl

[Ed De Gramo]

Such a load of myopic pish written about students, this time by someone who was themselves a student - a misinformed one at that.

What are those wonderful free grants you speak of, and how would I have got my hands of them at Uni??

Or do you mean student loans, which have to be repaid when students start earning??

Yes, there are some ludicrous degrees, but a lot of degree student will have a degree which gives them knowledge and a qualification that you can't get "on the job"

My job makes use of my "pishy" degree every day - how would you suggest I converse fluently in French without a degree-level qualification in that language??

I wish you'd stop using fancy words....my theasaurus thingy is working over time :greengrin

I have once saw the famous "4 straws for 1 drink" routine used by students in Bierex at Causewayside...priceless indeed :thumbsup:

[puff the dragon]

Such a load of myopic pish written about students, this time by someone who was themselves a student - a misinformed one at that.

What are those wonderful free grants you speak of, and how would I have got my hands of them at Uni??

Or do you mean student loans, which have to be repaid when students start earning??

Yes, there are some ludicrous degrees, but a lot of degree student will have a degree which gives them knowledge and a qualification that you can't get "on the job"

My job makes use of my "pishy" degree every day - how would you suggest I converse fluently in French without a degree-level qualification in that language??

By pointing things out on a piece of paper and using sign?

Besides, the whole world speaks English now anyway - no need to learn other languages as any global company needs to speak English to survive.

I assume in your case, that it is a lifestyle choice to live and work in France. Therefore, your degree is required and essential for YOU, not for the country as a whole.

---------- Post added at 10:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:22 PM ----------


A degree in media studies may also teach a person to spell "theory"

you go girl

Ah, but jusding by some of the top drawer spelling in the tabloids it appears even that does not.

Also, I'm a numbers man. Words scare us bean counters.

[Ed De Gramo]

By pointing things out on a piece of paper and using sign?

Besides, the whole world speaks English now anyway - no need to learn other languages as any global company needs to speak English to survive.

I assume in your case, that it is a lifestyle choice to live and work in France. Therefore, your degree is required and essential for YOU, not for the country as a whole.

You do know, he's gonna start using fancy words again :grr::greengrin

[Wembley67]

[QUOTE=puff the dragon;2186152]By pointing things out on a piece of paper and using sign?

Besides, the whole world speaks English now anyway - no need to learn other languages as any global company needs to speak English to survive.

I assume in your case, that it is a lifestyle choice to live and work in France. Therefore, your degree is required and essential for YOU, not for the country as a whole.[COLOR="Silver"]

Are you being serious?

[steve75]

I have to admit there does seem to be alot of fuddy-duddy courses, but considering I only do one I couldn't comment if they are worthwhile, even my course sounds pointless!

I do Computer games technology and I know for a fact I could go into work and slowly work my way up the games ladder, however I decided I wanted to go uni and learn first, I didn't want to go straight into working, paying bills and taxes, I've got the rest of my life to do that, figured I should atleast enjoy myself whilst gaining expierience.

Also about 1/3 of my course is maths, rather heavy maths at that, and with a teaching degree I can become a maths teacher, or obviously a lecturer in my course.... does this mean that I am allowed my grant? just thought I should ask first before I spend your money!

[Speedy]

I have to admit there does seem to be alot of fuddy-duddy courses, but considering I only do one I couldn't comment if they are worthwhile, even my course sounds pointless!

I do Computer games technology and I know for a fact I could go into work and slowly work my way up the games ladder, however I decided I wanted to go uni and learn first, I didn't want to go straight into working, paying bills and taxes, I've got the rest of my life to do that, figured I should atleast enjoy myself whilst gaining expierience.

Also about 1/3 of my course is maths, rather heavy maths at that, and with a teaching degree I can become a maths teacher, or obviously a lecturer in my course.... does this mean that I am allowed my grant? just thought I should ask first before I spend your money!

No! Either change to Law or Medicine or drop out :grr:

[puff the dragon]

Are you being serious?

Yes, unless you plan on living in a foreign country (in which case your degree is of zero benefit to UK tax payers) there is no point learning a foreign language to degree level.

Only exception may be Mandarin in a few years time.

[Green Mikey]

Yes, unless you plan on living in a foreign country (in which case your degree is of zero benefit to UK tax payers) there is no point learning a foreign language to degree level.

Only exception may be Mandarin in a few years time.

If you've got a degree....then I have to agree with you that they must be getting easier these days....

[Hibee-Bongo]

Yes, unless you plan on living in a foreign country (in which case your degree is of zero benefit to UK tax payers) there is no point learning a foreign language to degree level.

Only exception may be Mandarin in a few years time.

Nah, shirley not. :confused:

[shamo9]

By pointing things out on a piece of paper and using sign?

Besides, the whole world speaks English now anyway - no need to learn other languages as any global company needs to speak English to survive.

I assume in your case, that it is a lifestyle choice to live and work in France. Therefore, your degree is required and essential for YOU, not for the country as a whole.

---------- Post added at 10:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:22 PM ----------



Ah, but jusding by some of the top drawer spelling in the tabloids it appears even that does not.

Also, I'm a numbers man. Words scare us bean counters.

What an asinine point of view. We now live in the era of globalisation, simply displaying such lethal arrogance as this would leave us cut off and isolated from potentially profitable allies - which we ourselves need if we have any aspirations to, in your own words, 'survive'.

I personally would be much more receptive of someone actually making an effort than a lazy, obnoxious and delusional git. Each country has their own culture and customs, if you don't embrace them you'll have the door shut in your face.

No wonder a lot of countries detest British tourists. If you want something you have to give a little.

Or we could just, you know, live in a boring little bubble, refusing to expand...

[ArabHibee]

Free loading spongers.

Why should we working folk pay for their education by giving them grants when in theroy they should get a decent job out of it and make more than the majority of tax payers.

Unless you are studying law or science (REAL science - none of your sports science pish) then there is zero point in getting a degree. You might as well hang toilet paper on the wall (I should know, I have a business degree and my the last 7 years of work place experience is worth 1,000 time more than my degree is in employers eyes).

So stop moaning about how the world owes you 4 years of getting pished and get a job. Contribute you wasters!!

:grr:

:applause: Someone in my work has a degree in American History. Sure that helps her answering the telephones to investors.


I do agree with the OP in the fact that there are too many 'fuddy' degrees in silly subjects that are no more than an extended college courses. You can get a degree in almost anything these days and all it does is take the prestige out of proper degrees such as maths, english, science etc.

There are also far too many Uni's which should not have a Uni status IMO, Napier being one in edinburgh i can think of. Entry standards should also be set igher aswell IMO.

All part of labours grand idea that every kid should have a degree, no matter what in...

:top marksCan't comment on Napier per se, but deffo in Dundee. Dundee University is "the Uni" and when the Bell Street Tech was changed to Abertay University, there is still a stigma attached to getting a degree from there.

Standards have definitely dropped to allow more people into Uni. You needed A's and B's when I was at that age, now they'll let you in with whatever takes their fancy, taking into account how easy it is to pass a Standard Grade. Don't get me started on Standard Grades!! :grr:


By pointing things out on a piece of paper and using sign?

Besides, the whole world speaks English now anyway - no need to learn other languages as any global company needs to speak English to survive.

I assume in your case, that it is a lifestyle choice to live and work in France. Therefore, your degree is required and essential for YOU, not for the country as a whole.

:faf:


I have to admit there does seem to be alot of fuddy-duddy courses, but considering I only do one I couldn't comment if they are worthwhile, even my course sounds pointless!

I do Computer games technology and I know for a fact I could go into work and slowly work my way up the games ladder, however I decided I wanted to go uni and learn first, I didn't want to go straight into working, paying bills and taxes, I've got the rest of my life to do that, figured I should atleast enjoy myself whilst gaining expierience.

Also about 1/3 of my course is maths, rather heavy maths at that, and with a teaching degree I can become a maths teacher, or obviously a lecturer in my course.... does this mean that I am allowed my grant? just thought I should ask first before I spend your money!

FFS! Computer Games Technology - Get a job, ya scrounger!!

[LiverpoolHibs]

:applause: Someone in my work has a degree in American History. Sure that helps her answering the telephones to investors.

Yeah, imagine having a degree not specifically related to the job your doing at one particular moment in time. That's mental!

[ArabHibee]

Yeah, imagine having a degree not specifically related to the job your doing at one particular moment in time. That's mental!

Aye and the same job she's being doing for the last 10 years.

Just wondering what jobs she could actually apply for that would be relevant to her degree. Maybe you know of some?

[LiverpoolHibs]

Aye and the same job she's being doing for the last 10 years.

Just wondering what jobs she could actually apply for that would be relevant to her degree. Maybe you know of some?

I'm sure there are a number.

Or maybe she just wanted to do a degree in American history. Again, mental I know!

[ArabHibee]

Town planning.

Now there's a good degree to do.

[Speedy]

:applause: Someone in my work has a degree in American History. Sure that helps her answering the telephones to investors.



:top marksCan't comment on Napier per se, but deffo in Dundee. Dundee University is "the Uni" and when the Bell Street Tech was changed to Abertay University, there is still a stigma attached to getting a degree from there.

Standards have definitely dropped to allow more people into Uni. You needed A's and B's when I was at that age, now they'll let you in with whatever takes their fancy, taking into account how easy it is to pass a Standard Grade. Don't get me started on Standard Grades!! :grr:



:faf:



FFS! Computer Games Technology - Get a job, ya scrounger!!

I don't think anyone has ever claimed it is(or should be) difficult to pass a standard grade.

[ArabHibee]

I don't think anyone has ever claimed it is(or should be) difficult to pass a standard grade.

Neither did I. My annoyance with Standard Grades are that they took over from 'O' Grades and are seen as to be on a par with an 'O' Grade. Not in my book by a very large margin.

[Sylar]

It would be very easy for me to sit back and agree with the OP actually. My Undergraduate background is in geophysics/climatology, with my Masters being based in Engineering/Fluid Mechanics. A "science" subject if you will. Within academia, there is a heavy bias towards funding the science subjects, particularly biochemistry/medicine and various types of engineering. It only serves to creating a very laissez faire attitude amongst many of my peers, who view science as the way forward and expect continued funding to be a given at the expense of the arts. They often verge into the dangerous territory of devaluing some other subjects and demerit the achievement of those who spend their time (and money) attaining these qualifications.

I'll add a little experience to this argument - I shared a flat with 4 other guys in 1st year. Two were biology/chemistry students, one was interested in town and regional planning, one was a politics student and I was a physicist (the "geo" aspect came later on). Out of the 5 of us, we ended up as follows:

Myself: Currently undertaking a PhD in climate physics/flood modelling
1st Bio/Chem: Undertaking a PhD in blood cell culture in Bristol
2nd Bio/Chem: Currently working as a lab technician for SCRI
Town Planning: Currently a planner with Falkirk Council
Politics: Working in the Inland Revenue call centre as an analyst

Does this mean I think all politics students are "wasted" in their degree? No, but some would analyse this and state accordingly, that the guy wasted 4 years as he didn't get a "relative job". But at least he got a job. I know so many of my fellow postgrads who simply cannot find a position just now, despite having both a degree AND Masters to their name. It's hard for graduates of ANY discipline to get work. The 2nd bio/chem graduate is working on a rolling 4 weekly contract, as he cannot find a funded PhD/Masters position just now, and he's a "science" graduate.

My fiance is a graduate in English literature, currently undertaking her PhD. The narrow minded part of the OP will probably share the same view as many others in the country - "what can you do with English - teach?!" - the vast skills and analysis she has in terms of being able to read a body of information, decifer the important information and apply that information, is well beyond my level of analytical concept, and I'm a "science" student.

As for the pop at the guy who undertook French and viewing it as "pointless" to the country, what a load of tosh. Intelligence operatives, corporate communications, banking, representation/translation, analytical/foreign journalism - just a few uses of a degree in a foreign language - this ******ed view that "the whole world speaks English" is the atypically conceited attitude which prevails in the Western world, to our detriment.

I don't believe any one person can look at a degree and devalue it based on their own experience. Someone who has a degree in catering, journalism, sport psychology or business management, is no less qualified than people with law, medical, engineering or physical science/biomedical science degrees - they just have a degree which more suits their interest and benefits their chosen career pathway. Granted, it could be argued that doctors and lawyers will have a greater impact on society, but someone with a degree in catering will arrange events and functions (perhaps even at medical/law conferences) and a professional job would be expected. A journalist is required to aid in the publication and "advertising" of medical breakthroughs and delivery of information to a mass public - this ability to control the flow of information may not save a life directly, but the ability to transfer information on a global scale will alert other nations to medical breakthroughs and pioneering research which will perhaps benefit a nation in aiding them cure a disease.

Having undertaken 5 years at Uni now (with no loans, no grants and working 3 jobs last summer (as I was saving for an engagement ring at the same time!)), I do agree that there are many students who come to university for the sake of it being "something to do", but to even attempt to argue that it is anywhere near a majority, is utterly ludicrous.

And there I've just gone and wasted the best part of 5 minutes typing a response to a thread I was going to ignore. Bugger.

[Removed]

I do agree that there are many students who come to university for the sake of it being "something to do", but to even attempt to argue that it is anywhere near a majority, is utterly ludicrous.

When I went to uni, all we were interested in was getting pished and ****ging as many women as we could.

How times have changed :cool2:

Oh and I currently work for a global financial institution which does involve the opportunity to travel internationally and guess what language all our meetings are in?

[Hibee-Bongo]

Oh and I currently work for a global financial institution which does involve the opportunity to travel internationally and guess what language all our meetings are in?

:sauzee: ???

[NYHibby]

I was wondering when the yearly anti-student thread would happen.

This year's thread seems better than most with the appearance of the "scientists are the masters of the universe" crew. I sometimes wonder why I even bother to look at these.

EDIT: Since my post is on the top of the page, I will actually add something constructive. This country seem to be stuck on judging, at least partially, the value of a person being educated on if that person gets a job in their "field". I'm surprised that the rich liberal arts tradition has been so rejected here. The outdated idea that education should be provided by the government to create a mass of competent proletariat laborers (whether in the factory or in the lab) seems to linger in the public mindset more than in other places (the effects of the labour movement and socialist influence on this would be interesting to consider as they have been counterintuitive). But maybe this is just me being too intelligentsia, and I should go back to photocopying for the scientists and engineers who can barely write.

[marinello59]

This country seem to be stuck on judging, at least partially, the value of a person being educated on if that person gets a job in their "field". I'm surprised that the rich liberal arts tradition has been so rejected here. The outdated idea that education should be provided by the government to create a mass of competent proletariat laborers (whether in the factory or in the lab) seems to linger in the public mindset more than in other places (the effects of the labour movement and socialist influence on this would be interesting to consider as they have been counterintuitive).
:agree:
:top marks

[anon1]

The only problem I have with students is their inability to stay quiet at 2 in the morning on Buccleuch St! Otherwise, no issues with them, especially with all the amazing skirt filling the streets!

[GlesgaeHibby]

I don't believe any one person can look at a degree and devalue it based on their own experience. Someone who has a degree in catering, journalism, sport psychology or business management, is no less qualified than people with law, medical, engineering or physical science/biomedical science degrees - they just have a degree which more suits their interest and benefits their chosen career pathway. Granted, it could be argued that doctors and lawyers will have a greater impact on society, but someone with a degree in catering will arrange events and functions (perhaps even at medical/law conferences) and a professional job would be expected. A journalist is required to aid in the publication and "advertising" of medical breakthroughs and delivery of information to a mass public - this ability to control the flow of information may not save a life directly, but the ability to transfer information on a global scale will alert other nations to medical breakthroughs and pioneering research which will perhaps benefit a nation in aiding them cure a disease.

.

I agreed with a lot of your post but I have to stop you here.

As a Physics graduate myself, you will be able to understand where I am coming from. Less and less people are choosing Physics (and science in general).

Why? Because it is seen as a difficult option.

It is much easier to get a business/media studies/sport science/catering degree than a Physics degree. Even last year in my final honours year I had friends studying arts/business degrees getting a far easier time than me, with a significantly lighter workload.

Add in the massive amount of all round skills you get from a physics degree (High level of numeracy, practical skills, report writing skills, analytical skills etc etc) and it seems ludicrous that these degrees are given equal status.

--------------

Somebody earlier had a go at Napier University. Before making comments like that you may want to take a look at statistics clearly showing the Napier and Robert Gordon in Aberdeen are two of the best universities in the UK for students going on to meaningful employment.

Why? Because they have courses tailored to the job market.

I'm more concerned about the ever increasing number of school leavers being sent off to uni, many of whom should not be there. This will only decrease standards further.

I remember speaking to my supervisor last year (Physics at University of Glasgow) and he was getting more and more alarmed by the lack of knowledge first year students have. I saw it myself in my first year maths tutorials, people with an alarming lack of knowledge of the fundamentals.
As a result they are having to spoon feed students so much in 1st and 2nd year with standards diminished, these students are simply not going to be able to make what is already a difficult jump up to honours years 3 and 4.

Setting targets for 50% of school leavers to get a degree only serves to;

1. Waste public funds
2. Undermine the whole degree system

[Steve-O]

I was a student who worked as well, didn't get any grants and have now worked hard to pay off the loan I took out. These students are fine.

Science degrees are certainly the only ones that contribute - Doctors need one, and it shows an analytical mind if you have a science degree - e.e. Maths.

Law does contribute as long as you don't go onto work for those no-win-no-fee compensation parasites.

If you want to do business degrees, get a job first and do it through the business world.

But some are just plain pointless where we should never contribute a penny in loans or grants - for example Golf Course Design, History of Filmaking, Latin etc etc etc.

---------- Post added at 06:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:33 PM ----------



You've proved my point dude - a science degree shows you can do anything. A degree in media studies shows you can read the sun.

You done one of these degrees then have you?

[Steve-O]

Standards have definitely dropped to allow more people into Uni. You needed A's and B's when I was at that age, now they'll let you in with whatever takes their fancy, taking into account how easy it is to pass a Standard Grade. Don't get me started on Standard Grades!! :grr:

!!

Erm, you can't get into just based on Standard Grades, so what is the relevance of that?

It might be easy to 'pass', less easy to get credit level Standard Grades.

[Steve-O]

I agreed with a lot of your post but I have to stop you here.

As a Physics graduate myself, you will be able to understand where I am coming from. Less and less people are choosing Physics (and science in general).

Why? Because it is seen as a difficult option.

It is much easier to get a business/media studies/sport science/catering degree than a Physics degree. Even last year in my final honours year I had friends studying arts/business degrees getting a far easier time than me, with a significantly lighter workload.

Add in the massive amount of all round skills you get from a physics degree (High level of numeracy, practical skills, report writing skills, analytical skills etc etc) and it seems ludicrous that these degrees are given equal status.

--------------



Why are you bothered though?

You'll go off and use your Physics degree, and they'll go off and use their degrees...and? Unless you end up doing something completely unrelated to your degree, you won't be in any sort of 'competition' with these people?

I didn't choose a degree in Physics / Maths because it was never my strong point at school, simple really.

[Lucius Apuleius]

As one who has on many occasions slagged off the student ethos I won't bother going through it all again. :greengrin

Just one thing on languages though, I personally have found them easiest to learn when I have gone and lived in these countries. :wink:

[The_Todd]

Napier has very low entry requirments and has a lot of degrees that IMO are not degree standard. I think this devalues the whole degree qualification.

I'd like to show you this newspaper article:

http://heritage.scotsman.com/edinburgh/Napier-graduates-just-the-.4297911.jp


In a guide published by the Higher Education Statistics Agency (HESA), Napier University also ranks 11th overall in the UK.

Professor Joan Stringer, principal and vice-chancellor, said: "We are delighted that Napier is ranked number one for graduate employability in Scotland.

"This ranking is the result of a number of initiatives we have been undertaking to ensure that Napier graduates are highly employable.

"All Napier programmes are developed in conjunction with employers to ensure that our students are given the skills they will need in the workplace. We continually revise all our study programmes."

Surely the fact that Napier graduates leave uni and go into the real world and get jobs says something? Surely thats the point of education?

I've known people who work in HR as well, and they do like Napier graduates. It can't be that bad, surely?

[LiverpoolHibs]

I was wondering when the yearly anti-student thread would happen.

This year's thread seems better than most with the appearance of the "scientists are the masters of the universe" crew. I sometimes wonder why I even bother to look at these.

EDIT: Since my post is on the top of the page, I will actually add something constructive. This country seem to be stuck on judging, at least partially, the value of a person being educated on if that person gets a job in their "field". I'm surprised that the rich liberal arts tradition has been so rejected here. The outdated idea that education should be provided by the government to create a mass of competent proletariat laborers (whether in the factory or in the lab) seems to linger in the public mindset more than in other places (the effects of the labour movement and socialist influence on this would be interesting to consider as they have been counterintuitive). But maybe this is just me being too intelligentsia, and I should go back to photocopying for the scientists and engineers who can barely write.

Great post, although I of course have to disagree with the labour movement/socialist influence bit. See Workers' Educational Associations and the like.

Although I could just be another arty-farty waste of space who contributes nothing to the economy. :greengrin

---------- Post added at 10:27 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:26 AM ----------


I'd like to show you this newspaper article:

http://heritage.scotsman.com/edinburgh/Napier-graduates-just-the-.4297911.jp


Surely the fact that Napier graduates leave uni and go into the real world and get jobs says something? Surely thats the point of education?

Yikes, I'd hope not.

[The_Todd]

Yikes, I'd hope not.

Well, not the entire point, but I'm willing to guess it plays a large part in many students reasons to attend uni.

[Steve-O]

Well, not the entire point, but I'm willing to guess it plays a large part in many students reasons to attend uni.

I don't know about most people, but when I was 16 years old choosing my uni course, I had little clue about what career path I would take.

As it happens, I still don't know :bitchy::greengrin

[LiverpoolHibs]

Well, not the entire point, but I'm willing to guess it plays a large part in many students reasons to attend uni.

Hmmm, possibly. But that's very different to saying that the point of education is to get a job.

[lyonhibs]

By pointing things out on a piece of paper and using sign?

Besides, the whole world speaks English now anyway - no need to learn other languages as any global company needs to speak English to survive.

I assume in your case, that it is a lifestyle choice to live and work in France. Therefore, your degree is required and essential for YOU, not for the country as a whole.

---------- Post added at 10:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:22 PM ----------



Ah, but jusding by some of the top drawer spelling in the tabloids it appears even that does not.

Also, I'm a numbers man. Words scare us bean counters.

Dearie effin' me.

Do a quick google search on the number of news articles recently regarding how the UK's lack of language graduates is (or will soon) hold it back in the international jobs market relative to our European compatriots.

I'm the only native English speaker in a team of 10 - soon to be 17. We take calls from Greece, Poland, France and Belgium (soon to be joined by Spanish, German and Italian) all in their native language.

And everyone in the world speaks English aye??????

:rolleyes:

[steve75]

Dundee University is "the Uni" and when the Bell Street Tech was changed to Abertay University, there is still a stigma attached to getting a degree from there.

Standards have definitely dropped to allow more people into Uni. You needed A's and B's when I was at that age, now they'll let you in with whatever takes their fancy

FFS! Computer Games Technology - Get a job, ya scrounger!!


I hope you're joking?

I'm at Abertay, guess what... I needed A's and B's
The kinda of mathematical programming I do is no walk in the park.

I do have to admit, looking at other entry requirements for Abertay, A's are few and far between.... must just be my course

[The_Todd]

Hmmm, possibly. But that's very different to saying that the point of education is to get a job.


Sorry, I'm just trying to defend my former uni as I think it's getting a lot of unfair stick on here! :greengrin

But you're right, there's much more to education than that.

[Steve-O]

I hope you're joking?

I'm at Abertay, guess what... I needed A's and B's
The kinda of mathematical programming I do is no walk in the park.

I do have to admit, looking at other entry requirements for Abertay, A's are few and far between.... must just be my course

Arab is talking rubbish - I needed ABBB (Highers) to get onto my course so ****** knows where the information that you can just wander into any uni with no grades is coming from.

[lapsedhibee]

This country seem to be stuck on judging, at least partially, the value of a person being educated on if that person gets a job in their "field". I'm surprised that the rich liberal arts tradition has been so rejected here.

That was Thatch that started that, wasn't it, the :asshole:, with her Look at me I'm trained in Chemistry and Law and ain't I useful - er, not to society because there's no such thing, so I must be useful to, er, ... ?

[GlesgaeHibby]

I was wondering when the yearly anti-student thread would happen.

This year's thread seems better than most with the appearance of the "scientists are the masters of the universe" crew. I sometimes wonder why I even bother to look at these.

EDIT: Since my post is on the top of the page, I will actually add something constructive. This country seem to be stuck on judging, at least partially, the value of a person being educated on if that person gets a job in their "field". I'm surprised that the rich liberal arts tradition has been so rejected here. The outdated idea that education should be provided by the government to create a mass of competent proletariat laborers (whether in the factory or in the lab) seems to linger in the public mindset more than in other places (the effects of the labour movement and socialist influence on this would be interesting to consider as they have been counterintuitive). But maybe this is just me being too intelligentsia, and I should go back to photocopying for the scientists and engineers who can barely write.

But they brought you the photocopier :duck:

We speak in the language of mathematics:wink:

[The_Todd]

Arab is talking rubbish - I needed ABBB (Highers) to get onto my course so ****** knows where the information that you can just wander into any uni with no grades is coming from.


Because there's a lot of snobbery towards the "new" universities mostly from people who are connected to the "traditional" ones.

Some sort of superiority complex.

[Removed]

Because there's a lot of snobbery towards the "new" universities mostly from people who are connected to the "traditional" ones.

Some sort of superiority complex.

Don't think Arab has any superiority complex, get the impression she doesn't like any students no matter what Uni or college

But I agree there is negative feeling from some that went to "traditional" uni's - a bit like you could get into Napier, Abertay, Caledonian etc with green shield stamps. Obviously not true but who cares about facts when you can stick the boot in.

[GlesgaeHibby]

Because there's a lot of snobbery towards the "new" universities mostly from people who are connected to the "traditional" ones.

Some sort of superiority complex.

This snobbery can exist all it wants, but the statistics for employment prospects from Napier or Robert Gordon speak for themselves. They have tailor made courses suited to employers needs. For these courses it's a no brainer to go there.

For traditional courses; Sciences, History, English etc etc the traditional universities are still way out in front.

I'm proud to have completed my undergrad studies at Glasgow University (one of the ancients) and am now equally happy to be completing my postgrad studies at a fairly new uni, Heriot-Watt, which has a great reputation for the particular field I'm studying.

[hibsbollah]

Because there's a lot of snobbery towards the "new" universities mostly from people who are connected to the "traditional" ones.

Some sort of superiority complex.

:agree: Add to that there's no question that as a country we don't respect vocational qualifications enough. In Germany for example a vocational qualification in say, engineering or business studies is thought of as of equal value to a stiff academic subject such as English or one of the academic sciences. I think its because of some historical/cultural baggage we've got as a nation about physical work and getting your hands dirty being for the uneducated.

[Removed]

I'm proud to have completed my undergrad studies at Glasgow University (one of the ancients) and am now equally happy to be completing my postgrad studies at a fairly new uni, Heriot-Watt, which has a great reputation for the particular field I'm studying.

Heriot-Watt was never a college or poly though was it. It has a top reputation and has never has the same stigma as Napier or the rest. Same arguement could be used for Oxbridge post grads - are they not seen as superior to traditional uni degrees?

There is still a view though, and am ready to stand corrected if it's wrong, that entrance requirements for Edinburgh, Glasgow, St Andrews, Heriot Watt etc are higher than the others - that's probably why an equivalent degree at Napier etc could be seen as a lower standard :dunno: but at the end of the day if it gets you a good job then so what!

[lapsedhibee]

Heriot-Watt was never a college or poly though was it. It has a top reputation and has never has the same stigma as Napier or the rest. Same arguement could be used for Oxbridge post grads - are they not seen as superior to traditional uni degrees?


Yes it was.

[Steve-O]

This snobbery can exist all it wants, but the statistics for employment prospects from Napier or Robert Gordon speak for themselves. They have tailor made courses suited to employers needs. For these courses it's a no brainer to go there.

For traditional courses; Sciences, History, English etc etc the traditional universities are still way out in front.

I'm proud to have completed my undergrad studies at Glasgow University (one of the ancients) and am now equally happy to be completing my postgrad studies at a fairly new uni, Heriot-Watt, which has a great reputation for the particular field I'm studying.

Not disputing any of that, just ArabHibee was making out you could stroll into these new unis with just some Standard Grades to your name, which I would think is definitely not the case.

[GlesgaeHibby]

:agree: Add to that there's no question that as a country we don't respect vocational qualifications enough. In Germany for example a vocational qualification in say, engineering or business studies is thought of as of equal value to a stiff academic subject such as English or one of the academic sciences. I think its because of some historical/cultural baggage we've got as a nation about physical work and getting your hands dirty being for the uneducated.

:agree:

Spot on.

[Steve-O]

Heriot-Watt was never a college or poly though was it. It has a top reputation and has never has the same stigma as Napier or the rest. Same arguement could be used for Oxbridge post grads - are they not seen as superior to traditional uni degrees?

There is still a view though, and am ready to stand corrected if it's wrong, that entrance requirements for Edinburgh, Glasgow, St Andrews, Heriot Watt etc are higher than the others - that's probably why an equivalent degree at Napier etc could be seen as a lower standard :dunno: but at the end of the day if it gets you a good job then so what!

I'm not sure that the case across the board though? Like I say, I needed ABBB for my course, and it wasn't at any of those, but since I had those grades after 5th year, as far as I was aware I could've gone to Edinburgh, had I wanted to, and had they done the course that I wanted to do.

For your basic courses, then yes, entrance requirements are probably higher and obviously degrees from such establishments are rightly held in higher esteem than one from Abertay or whatever. I don't think people should be dismissed out of hand based on (a) what they've done at uni, or (b) where they graduated from. They've still completed a 3 or 4 year degree at least, so such people (me included eh! :greengrin) are no fools.

I went to Stirling by the way, just to drop a different uni into play!

[ArabHibee]

Not disputing any of that, just ArabHibee was making out you could stroll into these new unis with just some Standard Grades to your name, which I would think is definitely not the case.

Woops, sorry Steve-O, at my age you begin to forget what you did at school and what was required to get into Uni. Either that or I was half-asleep when I was posting last night.

Now that I've remembered that it's Highers/A Levels that you need to get into Uni, the rest of my original statement still stands. Standards have dropped from needing A's and B's to them allowing in C's, D's and E's on the same course.

[Bayern Bru]

Woops, sorry Steve-O, at my age you begin to forget what you did at school and what was required to get into Uni. Either that or I was half-asleep when I was posting last night.

Now that I've remembered that it's Highers/A Levels that you need to get into Uni, the rest of my original statement still stands. Standards have dropped from needing A's and B's to them allowing in C's, D's and E's on the same course.

I have yet to come across ANY university which names D's and E's as part of a course's entrance requirements.

[Mikey_1875]

I think all uni's are worthwhile as they specialise in different types of subjects i.e there's not a uni that is poor at everything. Hence that will be why you need A's and B's for abertay as they specialise in computer based subjects, Stirling for sport, Strathclyde - Business and Aberdeen for engineering etc. Its only about 7 or 8 unis over Britain that have a decent reputation for almost anything Glasgow and Edinburgh being two of these and even then they still don't do as well in certain areas as specialised newer uni's do. So weight of a dergee shoudln't neccesarily be judged on what uni you went to as maybe how well it does in it's particular field.

[Speedy]

I have yet to come across ANY university which names D's and E's as part of a course's entrance requirements.

I wasn't aware you could even get an E for a Higher

[Twa Cairpets]

Notwithstanding the OP's very bitter and - in my opinion - monstrously warped view of Further Education, this is an interesting thread.

I am science graduate, with a Masters in a Science subject also, but I do not have a bias towards scientific degrees. There is in my mind huge benefit in increasing the body of knowledge for the sake of increasing the body of knowledge. It gives society the opportunity to be better informed, and make better decisions.

In addition, most subjects will give the graduate skills that are transferable to the working world:To take a few examples:

Study of history gives people analytical tools and teaches the benefit of research and cross checking of facts, and then putting these facts into context

Study of English offers, at a very basic level, the ability to read and write. This isnt a glib statement - the quality of some written business documents I work with daily are appalling.

Study of Maths provides problem solving and logic ability.

Study of Philosophy gives the ability to think critically and question ideas and ideologies.

The thought of a world described by the OP where only pure, vocational science and (rather bizarrely) law have any merit and should be tolerated is deeply scary.

In a country where people seem to prefer Heat Magazine to books, the last thing we need is less education.

[Lucius Apuleius]

I went to Stirling by the way, just to drop a different uni into play!

:grr::grr::grr: See that is one of the reasons I hate students and Unis. Airthrey loch was a perfectly good swimming pool till they built that place!!!!:greengrin

[Betty Boop]

I have yet to come across ANY university which names D's and E's as part of a course's entrance requirements.

:agree: Why would a University accept a D, is that not a fail?

[Phil D. Rolls]

I agreed with a lot of your post but I have to stop you here.

As a Physics graduate myself, you will be able to understand where I am coming from. Less and less people are choosing Physics (and science in general).

Why? Because it is seen as a difficult option.

It is much easier to get a business/media studies/sport science/catering degree than a Physics degree. Even last year in my final honours year I had friends studying arts/business degrees getting a far easier time than me, with a significantly lighter workload.

Add in the massive amount of all round skills you get from a physics degree (High level of numeracy, practical skills, report writing skills, analytical skills etc etc) and it seems ludicrous that these degrees are given equal status.

--------------

Somebody earlier had a go at Napier University. Before making comments like that you may want to take a look at statistics clearly showing the Napier and Robert Gordon in Aberdeen are two of the best universities in the UK for students going on to meaningful employment.

Why? Because they have courses tailored to the job market.

I'm more concerned about the ever increasing number of school leavers being sent off to uni, many of whom should not be there. This will only decrease standards further.

I remember speaking to my supervisor last year (Physics at University of Glasgow) and he was getting more and more alarmed by the lack of knowledge first year students have. I saw it myself in my first year maths tutorials, people with an alarming lack of knowledge of the fundamentals.
As a result they are having to spoon feed students so much in 1st and 2nd year with standards diminished, these students are simply not going to be able to make what is already a difficult jump up to honours years 3 and 4.

Setting targets for 50% of school leavers to get a degree only serves to;

1. Waste public funds
2. Undermine the whole degree system

How can a degree be an elite qualification if 50% of the population have one? That's what I have always wondered.

[steve75]

I think all uni's are worthwhile as they specialise in different types of subjects i.e there's not a uni that is poor at everything. Hence that will be why you need A's and B's for abertay as they specialise in computer based subjects, Stirling for sport, Strathclyde - Business and Aberdeen for engineering etc. Its only about 7 or 8 unis over Britain that have a decent reputation for almost anything Glasgow and Edinburgh being two of these and even then they still don't do as well in certain areas as specialised newer uni's do. So weight of a dergee shoudln't neccesarily be judged on what uni you went to as maybe how well it does in it's particular field.

Exactly!

I had the Highers and Advanced Highers to do almost any Computing or Engineering course in the country, but I chose to go to Abertay because they have one of the best Games course in the world.

[Bayern Bru]

:agree: Why would a University accept a D, is that not a fail?

Effectively, yes.

[The_Todd]

:agree: Why would a University accept a D, is that not a fail?


Universities operate on a point based system. Believe me, even getting a D at A-Level isn't exactly a cakewalk.

[steakbake]

How can a degree be an elite qualification if 50% of the population have one? That's what I have always wondered.

The cynical side of me says its at least 25% of the young population of the jobless figures for at least 3 years for starters.

What it will lead to is rampant credentialism where you can't even get any straight forward entry level "white collar" job unless you have a full undergraduate degree at 2:1 or above.

[Twa Cairpets]

The cynical side of me says its at least 25% of the young population of the jobless figures for at least 3 years for starters.

What it will lead to is rampant credentialism where you can't even get any straight forward entry level "white collar" job unless you have a full undergraduate degree at 2:1 or above.

Why would this be worse than elitism where only a limited number are deemed worthy of access to higher education?

Whatever system is used for measuring achievement, a CV will be a CV. if in the past you needed Highers to get an interview, if in the future you need a degree it will be because that is where the standard has moved to - it doesnt make anything discriminatory.

[steakbake]

Why would this be worse than elitism where only a limited number are deemed worthy of access to higher education?

Whatever system is used for measuring achievement, a CV will be a CV. if in the past you needed Highers to get an interview, if in the future you need a degree it will be because that is where the standard has moved to - it doesnt make anything discriminatory.

I didn't say anything about discrimination, or creating elites.

It is credentialist. Does it really take a 4 year degree to know how to enter data on a system and file and copy? I just think some of the jobs advertised these days, the essential criteria cheapen the actual value of a degree in the first place.

Most developing countries need to move towards becoming knowledge economies. We need flexible work forces who are capable of being trained continuously as they go to specialise and advance. If we have a system which churns out graduates with bits of paper which doesn't really reflect anything to the value of the qualification, then what is the point of it all?

[jakki]

We put our son through Uni, no grant and such he lived at home and bussed it to Heriot Watt. He did get his bus fares refunded.

We made it clear if he wanted cash for his social life, he would have to get a PT job which he did, working in ASDA as warehouse person on Sundays.

He was taking Combined studies, Maths,Physics and Computer something, and ended up with a first class degree.

When it came to getting employment, he had no luck. He is dyslextic, the same as me and all my kids,he never got a reply from the hundreds of applications. He carried on with ASDA and got a full time job as warehouse assistant on constant night shift and he is happy with that.

What a waste of education

[Twa Cairpets]

I didn't say anything about discrimination, or creating elites.

It is credentialist. Does it really take a 4 year degree to know how to enter data on a system and file and copy? I just think some of the jobs advertised these days, the essential criteria cheapen the actual value of a degree in the first place.

Most developing countries need to move towards becoming knowledge economies. We need flexible work forces who are capable of being trained continuously as they go to specialise and advance. If we have a system which churns out graduates with bits of paper which doesn't really reflect anything to the value of the qualification, then what is the point of it all?

Fair points, but you're working on the assumption that all or the majority of vacancies have the requirement for a degree, which I dont believe to be true. Also, if a business is looking to train and invest in good staff who can advance and impove, the ability that a graduate has illustrated in being able to learn may be an important element of their decision making process.

[Twa Cairpets]

We put our son through Uni, no grant and such he lived at home and bussed it to Heriot Watt. He did get his bus fares refunded.

We made it clear if he wanted cash for his social life, he would have to get a PT job which he did, working in ASDA as warehouse person on Sundays.

He was taking Combined studies, Maths,Physics and Computer something, and ended up with a first class degree.

When it came to getting employment, he had no luck. He is dyslextic, the same as me and all my kids,he never got a reply from the hundreds of applications. He carried on with ASDA and got a full time job as warehouse assistant on constant night shift and he is happy with that.

What a waste of education

Why is it a waste of an education? Just because he didnt land a job in the middle of a recession doesnt mean that his degree is valueless.

And I dont see what his dyslexia has to do with it either, to be honest.

Did he enjoy his time at University? Did he get some good life experience from it? Did he learn stuff he wouldnt otherwise know?

[Removed]

Why is it a waste of an education? Just because he didnt land a job in the middle of a recession doesnt mean that his degree is valueless.

And I dont see what his dyslexia has to do with it either, to be honest.

Did he enjoy his time at University? Did he get some good life experience from it? Did he learn stuff he wouldnt otherwise know?

:agree:

Did he make mates he'll keep for the rest of his life? Did he get his nat king? Did he learn how to roll a joint?

[Phil D. Rolls]

We put our son through Uni, no grant and such he lived at home and bussed it to Heriot Watt. He did get his bus fares refunded.

We made it clear if he wanted cash for his social life, he would have to get a PT job which he did, working in ASDA as warehouse person on Sundays.

He was taking Combined studies, Maths,Physics and Computer something, and ended up with a first class degree.

When it came to getting employment, he had no luck. He is dyslextic, the same as me and all my kids,he never got a reply from the hundreds of applications. He carried on with ASDA and got a full time job as warehouse assistant on constant night shift and he is happy with that.

What a waste of education

A sad story, he clearly has more to offer than working in a warehouse. Not to say that there is anything wrong with that and it is good he can be happy in what he is doing. It's just that a mind like that would be better used solving bigger problems IMO.

[RigRoars]

We put our son through Uni, no grant and such he lived at home and bussed it to Heriot Watt. He did get his bus fares refunded.

We made it clear if he wanted cash for his social life, he would have to get a PT job which he did, working in ASDA as warehouse person on Sundays.

He was taking Combined studies, Maths,Physics and Computer something, and ended up with a first class degree.

When it came to getting employment, he had no luck. He is dyslextic, the same as me and all my kids,he never got a reply from the hundreds of applications. He carried on with ASDA and got a full time job as warehouse assistant on constant night shift and he is happy with that.

What a waste of education

You have a point Marydoll.
It all depends on what he does in the future.

To have a first class degree in the named subjects and having a job as a nighshift warehouseman does sound a waste of talent to me.

[jakki]

Why is it a waste of an education? Just because he didnt land a job in the middle of a recession doesnt mean that his degree is valueless.

And I dont see what his dyslexia has to do with it either, to be honest.

Did he enjoy his time at University? Did he get some good life experience from it? Did he learn stuff he wouldnt otherwise know?
He didn't gat a job in recession, he left uni in 1992 but no jobs were offered He is very happy with his job in ASDA. There is no pressure put on him but when the tills computers went down, right from the start of his course, he was called out ,day and night to fix the comupter , he should have should have charge them more than the lowest wage that he was getting.

Anyway he is happy with his job.

As for his dylexica, obvious you don't have that problem ,try out even writing out a CV with a spelling check that words are all mixed up and not making sense. I tried to proof read his applications but I am also dyslexic, it was blind leading the blind.

Anyway he loves the job and how many on here can say that!

I am just saying that he could have had that job right from the start without going to uni

[Speedy]

You have a point Marydoll.
It all depends on what he does in the future.

To have a first class degree in the named subjects and having a job as a nighshift warehouseman does sound a waste of talent to me.

I don't mean any disrespect but a 1st class degree in combined studies is nowhere near as good as a 1st class degree in maths, physics or computer science.

(Disclaimer - This is based on current combined studies degrees, I don't know what they were like in 1992 because I was only 4)

[hibsbollah]

I don't mean any disrespect but a 1st class degree in combined studies is nowhere near as good as a 1st class degree in maths, physics or computer science.

(Disclaimer - This is based on current combined studies degrees, I don't know what they were like in 1992 because I was only 4)

Define 'good':confused:

[lapsedhibee]

I am just saying that he could have had that job right from the start without going to uni

Is that his view as well as yours, or is he (more) glad that he went? :dunno:

[shamo9]

Define 'good':confused:

On a scale of how enticing a degree is to an employer? Does it have an esteemed reputation or is it perceived as an 'easy' option? :dunno:

[jakki]

I don't mean any disrespect but a 1st class degree in combined studies is nowhere near as good as a 1st class degree in maths, physics or computer science.

(Disclaimer - This is based on current combined studies degrees, I don't know what they were like in 1992 because I was only 4)

No disrepect taken. He left school with Advanced Maths,Physics and computing. He couldn't decide which subject to take
and so he choose the combined studies. He is happy with the job he has with no pressure , but it seems like a mistake that he had extra education when his final job didn't need it

He likes his job and thats good enough for me

[Speedy]

Define 'good':confused:

Maybe I would have been better saying nowhere near as 'valuable' i.e. not as difficult to achieve and less likely to get you a graduate level job.

[PiemanP]

I have yet to come across ANY university which names D's and E's as part of a course's entrance requirements.

No they dont state it on the entrance criteria, but as has already been mentioned entrants are judged on a points system, which D's and E's do count towards.

Universities like Napier have much lower entrance criteria than other uni's.

I have a mate who is doing computing at Napier, he has 4 highers (which took 2 years to attain ffs) of which his highest is a B in PE. because he has a whole host of other lower grades that meant he met the criteria. And how PE is a higher is also beyond me!

IMO you should need at least 5 Highers at B upwards to do any degree, that would mean less people attaining degrees and would mean a degree would recognise only the top pupils.


Universities should also look at where the highers (or other grade) have been earnt. Subjects like Maths and English, sciences should be recognised above subjects like admin and business studies.

This is from personal experience, as i got A's for both of those subjects above whilst only attaining a B for Higher Maths.
The Uni's will give me more points for those 2 A's than my B in maths, when in reality the Maths course is far more challenging and shows greater ability IMO.

[ArabHibee]

No they dont state it on the entrance criteria, but as has already been mentioned entrants are judged on a points system, which D's and E's do count towards.

Universities like Napier have much lower entrance criteria than other uni's.

I have a mate who is doing computing at Napier, he has 4 highers (which took 2 years to attain ffs) of which his highest is a B in PE. because he has a whole host of other lower grades that meant he met the criteria. And how PE is a higher is also beyond me!

IMO you should need at least 5 Highers at B upwards to do any degree, that would mean less people attaining degrees and would mean a degree would recognise only the top pupils.


Universities should also look at where the highers (or other grade) have been earnt. Subjects like Maths and English, sciences should be recognised above subjects like admin and business studies.

This is from personal experience, as i got A's for both of those subjects above whilst only attaining a B for Higher Maths.
The Uni's will give me more points for those 2 A's than my B in maths, when in reality the Maths course is far more challenging and shows greater ability IMO.
:top marks Good post.

[Mikey_1875]

No they dont state it on the entrance criteria, but as has already been mentioned entrants are judged on a points system, which D's and E's do count towards.

Universities like Napier have much lower entrance criteria than other uni's.

I have a mate who is doing computing at Napier, he has 4 highers (which took 2 years to attain ffs) of which his highest is a B in PE. because he has a whole host of other lower grades that meant he met the criteria. And how PE is a higher is also beyond me!

IMO you should need at least 5 Highers at B upwards to do any degree, that would mean less people attaining degrees and would mean a degree would recognise only the top pupils.


Universities should also look at where the highers (or other grade) have been earnt. Subjects like Maths and English, sciences should be recognised above subjects like admin and business studies.

This is from personal experience, as i got A's for both of those subjects above whilst only attaining a B for Higher Maths.
The Uni's will give me more points for those 2 A's than my B in maths, when in reality the Maths course is far more challenging and shows greater ability IMO.

So what happens if for example someone who has 2 b's 2 c's goes on to get a 2:1 degree and someone doing the same subject at the same uni who achieved 5 highers at B got the same degree at the end, would it be fair to say that they both come out with near enough the same chance for a graduate job? I think that as the standard of the degree is hard enough then as many people as possible should get a shot at the degree and see what they come out with at the end. Obviously there needs to be a cut off point somewhere along the line to show the minimum competencies and these are also done throughout yearly exams at uni but I don't think we are too far off the mark as it stands.

As for your point on maths being more valuable than admin etc then to an extent this is what already happens as many of the high tariff and specialized courses require a grade in a certain subject, for example a B in maths and physics for engineering courses. It is sure that Maths is a harder higher to achieve and that is reflected with a more broad range of courses open to them instead of someone with a so called easier higher. If someone does not want to fully utilize there maths degree and choses something unrelated then it is there issue.

[Twa Cairpets]

He didn't gat a job in recession, he left uni in 1992 but no jobs were offered He is very happy with his job in ASDA. There is no pressure put on him but when the tills computers went down, right from the start of his course, he was called out ,day and night to fix the comupter , he should have should have charge them more than the lowest wage that he was getting.

Anyway he is happy with his job.

As for his dylexica, obvious you don't have that problem ,try out even writing out a CV with a spelling check that words are all mixed up and not making sense. I tried to proof read his applications but I am also dyslexic, it was blind leading the blind.

Anyway he loves the job and how many on here can say that!

I am just saying that he could have had that job right from the start without going to uni

Sorry Mary I wasnt in any way trying to make light of Dyslexia - Im not dyslexic, but my Mum was a leading educational authority on it before she retired, and I appreciate the difficulties it can cause. I dont think it necessarily had/has anything to do, however, with the value of his (or anyone elses) degree.

You are right though, he probably could have had that job without the degree. But what he wouldnt have had is the experience of gaining a degree, and, if nothing else, these sense of achievement in gaining a first class degree.

[shamo9]

I don't think you can really conclusively say that one subject is harder than another, it's completely relative to a person's strengths and weakness.

A lot of people consider Higher English as the bane of their existence while I found it considerably easy (getting over 90% without even really trying too hard). On the other hand I'm pretty useless at Maths and took my 2 at Standard Grade and ran away with it.

There's a general stigma that the non-traditional subjects such as Media Studies (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/education/09/exam_results/higher/html/media_studies.stm) are a 'skive' in comparison with Maths, English and the rest of the sciences. Yet these subjects have a much lower pass rate than the 'harder' subjects with an incredible 45% failing in comparison with 30% for Maths - I was only one of two people to get an A in Media in my class.

I personally think that we should take quality over quantity in regards to results and try to emphasise niche degrees, rather than the 'diluted' ones we have in abundance today.

If a 5 higher criteria was set then people could easily just pick highers that have absolute no relevance to their course, and are probably influenced entirely by what ones they think are 'easier'. I don't buy into the 'it shows a wide, flexible array of knowledge', if you're truly interested in a degree then you should prepare for it accordingly - and each degree requires a different preparation.

If you're looking to study, say, English and Film at Uni, a target of 3 As in something like English, Media and History would be preferable to the current system of English and then whatever else the student decides (anything from Spanish to Maths).

Subjects that have no real relevancy just show that the prospective student is adept in those particular subjects, not in the potential challenges that will arise from the degree.

I also don't like the notion of having to get results in a first sitting. It's unfair on people who perhaps were not suitably mature at the time and now regret the missed opportunity later on.

The stigma that surrounds students is quite intriguing. It's amusing to consider that the older generations who bitch about the current 'university culture' were the generations that created it in the first place. Students today are merely using the system created for them.

[ArabHibee]

I don't think you can really conclusively say that one subject is harder than another, it's completely relative to a person's strengths and weakness.

A lot of people consider Higher English as the bane of their existence while I found it considerably easy (getting over 90% without even really trying too hard). On the other hand I'm pretty useless at Maths and took my 2 at Standard Grade and ran away with it.

There's a general stigma that the non-traditional subjects such as Media Studies (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/education/09/exam_results/higher/html/media_studies.stm) are a 'skive' in comparison with Maths, English and the rest of the sciences. Yet these subjects have a much lower pass rate than the 'harder' subjects with an incredible 45% failing in comparison with 30% for Maths - I was only one of two people to get an A in Media in my class.

I personally think that we should take quality over quantity in regards to results and try to emphasise niche degrees, rather than the 'diluted' ones we have in abundance today.

If a 5 higher criteria was set then people could easily just pick highers that have absolute no relevance to their course, and are probably influenced entirely by what ones they think are 'easier'. I don't buy into the 'it shows a wide, flexible array of knowledge', if you're truly interested in a degree then you should prepare for it accordingly - and each degree requires a different preparation.

If you're looking to study, say, English and Film at Uni, a target of 3 As in something like English, Media and History would be preferable to the current system of English and then whatever else the student decides (anything from Spanish to Maths).

Subjects that have no real relevancy just show that the prospective student is adept in those particular subjects, not in the potential challenges that will arise from the degree.

I also don't like the notion of having to get results in a first sitting. It's unfair on people who perhaps were not suitably mature at the time and now regret the missed opportunity later on.

The stigma that surrounds students is quite intriguing. It's amusing to consider that the older generations who bitch about the current 'university culture' were the generations that created it in the first place. Students today are merely using the system created for them.

I do.

[GlesgaeHibby]

I don't think you can really conclusively say that one subject is harder than another, it's completely relative to a person's strengths and weakness.

A lot of people consider Higher English as the bane of their existence while I found it considerably easy (getting over 90% without even really trying too hard). On the other hand I'm pretty useless at Maths and took my 2 at Standard Grade and ran away with it.

There's a general stigma that the non-traditional subjects such as Media Studies (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/education/09/exam_results/higher/html/media_studies.stm) are a 'skive' in comparison with Maths, English and the rest of the sciences. Yet these subjects have a much lower pass rate than the 'harder' subjects with an incredible 45% failing in comparison with 30% for Maths - I was only one of two people to get an A in Media in my class.

I personally think that we should take quality over quantity in regards to results and try to emphasise niche degrees, rather than the 'diluted' ones we have in abundance today.

If a 5 higher criteria was set then people could easily just pick highers that have absolute no relevance to their course, and are probably influenced entirely by what ones they think are 'easier'. I don't buy into the 'it shows a wide, flexible array of knowledge', if you're truly interested in a degree then you should prepare for it accordingly - and each degree requires a different preparation.

If you're looking to study, say, English and Film at Uni, a target of 3 As in something like English, Media and History would be preferable to the current system of English and then whatever else the student decides (anything from Spanish to Maths).

Subjects that have no real relevancy just show that the prospective student is adept in those particular subjects, not in the potential challenges that will arise from the degree.

I also don't like the notion of having to get results in a first sitting. It's unfair on people who perhaps were not suitably mature at the time and now regret the missed opportunity later on.

The stigma that surrounds students is quite intriguing. It's amusing to consider that the older generations who bitch about the current 'university culture' were the generations that created it in the first place. Students today are merely using the system created for them.

What exactly does media studies entail?

I do like the idea of having to pass your exams at the first sitting. It sort's the men from the boys. If you can't handle the pressure of exams at school you aren't going to be able to handle it at university.

I imagine the pass rate being lower for media (I do not know where you got that statistic from, but for the purpose of the argument I'll assume it correct) compared to mathematics is due to certain less adept pupils when faced with the choice between the two subject's opting for media as "it'll be a skive" as I'm sure we've all heard during our school years.

[ArabHibee]

What exactly does media studies entail?

I do like the idea of having to pass your exams at the first sitting. It sort's the men from the boys. If you can't handle the pressure of exams at school you aren't going to be able to handle it at university.

I imagine the pass rate being lower for media (I do not know where you got that statistic from, but for the purpose of the argument I'll assume it correct) compared to mathematics is due to certain less adept pupils when faced with the choice between the two subject's opting for media as "it'll be a skive" as I'm sure we've all heard during our school years.

:agree: Although I may be wrong, don't Standard Grade exams now only form part of the overall grade? Could you flunk the exam but still pass the course as the exam only makes up say 20% of the overall mark?

And is this the same with Highers or are they the same as when I was at school, fail the exam, you don't pass the course?

[danhibees1875]

:agree: Although I may be wrong, don't Standard Grade exams now only form part of the overall grade? Could you flunk the exam but still pass the course as the exam only makes up say 20% of the overall mark?

And is this the same with Highers or are they the same as when I was at school, fail the exam, you don't pass the course?

I think english SG is partly folio work, but most subjects are pure exam-to-results based. :agree:

None of my highers had any work from class counting tomwards my gradce - a couple of adv.highers did though. :agree:

[Steve-O]

What exactly does media studies entail?

I do like the idea of having to pass your exams at the first sitting. It sort's the men from the boys. If you can't handle the pressure of exams at school you aren't going to be able to handle it at university.

I imagine the pass rate being lower for media (I do not know where you got that statistic from, but for the purpose of the argument I'll assume it correct) compared to mathematics is due to certain less adept pupils when faced with the choice between the two subject's opting for media as "it'll be a skive" as I'm sure we've all heard during our school years.

It covers a huge range of topics to be honest.

I would VERY much doubt that anyone who takes media studies because "it'll be a skive" actually passes if they do as much skiving as they obviously intend to. I can't see why learning about the media is any different to learning about any other subject to be honest? The narrow minded view that its "just watching TV and films" is such a load of bollocks.

Here is what it says in the research section from Stirling's Film and Media Studies website -

Our research interests include:

New media and digital cultures
Screen analysis and mediated language
Cultural policy and the creative industries
Media sport
Media and cultural identities
Political communication
Journalism
Promotional culture and public relations
Media history, cultural archives and heritage.
Film history, theory and analysis
Celebrity
Media regulation and policy
Global cinema

http://www.fmj.stir.ac.uk/

If you really want to, you can download the outline for every module for the next 2 semesters.

[Sunny Leith]

No they dont state it on the entrance criteria, but as has already been mentioned entrants are judged on a points system, which D's and E's do count towards.

Universities like Napier have much lower entrance criteria than other uni's.

I have a mate who is doing computing at Napier, he has 4 highers (which took 2 years to attain ffs) of which his highest is a B in PE. because he has a whole host of other lower grades that meant he met the criteria. And how PE is a higher is also beyond me!

IMO you should need at least 5 Highers at B upwards to do any degree, that would mean less people attaining degrees and would mean a degree would recognise only the top pupils.

Universities should also look at where the highers (or other grade) have been earnt. Subjects like Maths and English, sciences should be recognised above subjects like admin and business studies.

This is from personal experience, as i got A's for both of those subjects above whilst only attaining a B for Higher Maths.
The Uni's will give me more points for those 2 A's than my B in maths, when in reality the Maths course is far more challenging and shows greater ability IMO.

For someone who has many 'A' highers as yourself, you really are a fool.

[SloopJB]

There are some very well educated people on this forum, each able to put forward an argument as to why their own education is relevant in today's world.
Among the many common themes are that those with a good education as well as those having gone on to further eduction display an aptitude to learn which is a commodity potential employers will take notice of regardless of the subject.
And,
Having a good education doesn't prevent people from typing some pish in the name of opinions.

[Antifa Hibs]

Free loading spongers.

Why should we working folk pay for their education by giving them grants when in theroy they should get a decent job out of it and make more than the majority of tax payers.

Unless you are studying law or science (REAL science - none of your sports science pish) then there is zero point in getting a degree. You might as well hang toilet paper on the wall (I should know, I have a business degree and my the last 7 years of work place experience is worth 1,000 time more than my degree is in employers eyes).

So stop moaning about how the world owes you 4 years of getting pished and get a job. Contribute you wasters!!

:grr:

Because when your ancient and decrepit it'll be those orrible pesky students that will be paying your pension and there taxes will contribute to you getting spoon fed and yer arse wiped in one of cooncils care homes. Swings in round-abouts.

[Antifa Hibs]

No they dont state it on the entrance criteria, but as has already been mentioned entrants are judged on a points system, which D's and E's do count towards.

Universities like Napier have much lower entrance criteria than other uni's.

I have a mate who is doing computing at Napier, he has 4 highers (which took 2 years to attain ffs) of which his highest is a B in PE. because he has a whole host of other lower grades that meant he met the criteria. And how PE is a higher is also beyond me!

IMO you should need at least 5 Highers at B upwards to do any degree, that would mean less people attaining degrees and would mean a degree would recognise only the top pupils.


Universities should also look at where the highers (or other grade) have been earnt. Subjects like Maths and English, sciences should be recognised above subjects like admin and business studies.

This is from personal experience, as i got A's for both of those subjects above whilst only attaining a B for Higher Maths.
The Uni's will give me more points for those 2 A's than my B in maths, when in reality the Maths course is far more challenging and shows greater ability IMO.

Not really. My highers were in things such as wood work, computing, P.E etc, I was pesh at maths and english. Me trying to learn equations would be just as hard as someone trying to learn a wood lathe and chisel IMO.

[Rory89]

I'm pissed off because I'm old and bitter, and others are young and enjoying their lives.


The above is a quicker and easier way of getting to the point than the actual OP.

[Haymaker]

I have just become a student at the age of 24 and I work 60+ hours a week, roughly 40hours of lectures,practicals, seminars and private research and then I have to work 20+hours in a pub a week to help suppliment my income because I cannot afford to eat or sleep in my halls unless I do.

Free-loading sponger? **** off.

[Rory89]

I'm in uni 10 hours a week.

Get in! :thumbsup:

[Haymaker]

I'm in uni 10 hours a week.

Get in! :thumbsup:

Lucky bassa!

[HibbyScott]

I'm in uni 10 hours a week.

Get in! :thumbsup:

Try 7 a week :wink: But then - I wouldn't recommend my course to anyone wanting an easy time at university :wink:

[Sylar]

Try 7 a week :wink: But then - I wouldn't recommend my course to anyone wanting an easy time at university :wink:

Pssshttt - easiest branch of engineering by a long-shot :wink: :greengrin

[joe breezy]

I did Media & Cutural Studies one of these subjects that is said to be Mickey Mouse and not useful.
Now I use a lot of what I learnt in my job in an advertising agency.

Quite subjective what's useful and what isn't, I think. And I worked whilst I studied, I used to hate students too but realised I might need to go back to College and Uni to get into what I wanted.

[lEXO]

Free loading spongers.

Why should we working folk pay for their education by giving them grants when in theroy they should get a decent job out of it and make more than the majority of tax payers.

Unless you are studying law or science (REAL science - none of your sports science pish) then there is zero point in getting a degree. You might as well hang toilet paper on the wall (I should know, I have a business degree and my the last 7 years of work place experience is worth 1,000 time more than my degree is in employers eyes).

So stop moaning about how the world owes you 4 years of getting pished and get a job. Contribute you wasters!!

:grr:
Stop slavering and get a life.Bully for you and your business degree.Just a pity you dont mind your own business ya snooty knob.I,m not a student but have met plenty who have worked and studied, then went on to be nurses etc.Better than some sanctimonious prat like you.Sorry for not even attempting to be polite,but find that it,s wasted on your type.
:jamboak:

[HibbyScott]

Pssshttt - easiest branch of engineering by a long-shot :wink: :greengrin

I'd take a bit of roundabout designing in Civil Engineering over what I'm doing any day, looking back on it :greengrin

[Beefster]

There's a general stigma that the non-traditional subjects such as Media Studies (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/education/09/exam_results/higher/html/media_studies.stm) are a 'skive' in comparison with Maths, English and the rest of the sciences. Yet these subjects have a much lower pass rate than the 'harder' subjects with an incredible 45% failing in comparison with 30% for Maths - I was only one of two people to get an A in Media in my class.

I'd imagine that a major contributor to the higher Media Studies fail rate is students picking the Higher because they think it's a 'skive'?

[Speedy]

I'd imagine that a major contributor to the higher Media Studies fail rate is students picking the Higher because they think it's a 'skive'?

:agree:

[Beefster]

And a wee factoid for people who think all students are work-shy layabouts:

It is estimated that to get an award that reflects your true intellect / potential, you need to put in, a minimum of 47 hours per week, during term-time. Bearing in mind that a large proportion of students also have part-time jobs, a lot of students work in excess of 60 hours per week.

More than most of the working population.

[Bayern Bru]

From my experience, many students picked certain subjects at my high school because they 'wanted a skive.'

Quite depressing really.

[lapsedhibee]

I'd take a bit of roundabout designing in Civil Engineering over what I'm doing any day, looking back on it :greengrin

One wonders what that module's called at Abertay Uni. :dunno:

[Darth Hibbie]

From my experience, many students picked certain subjects at my high school because they 'wanted a skive.'

Quite depressing really.

:agree:

It was like that in my day also.

FWIW I done a "good" degree (Accounting) at a "good" University "Glasgow" having managed A's and B's in my highers. I would like to think that the standard required has not dropped but I have no idea.

Having a degree (any degree) certainly helped me get my job but it has nothing to do with accounting. In fact the only relevant thing I do with accounting is have a look at the Hibs end of year accounts and a laugh at the yams ones.

edit: I funded myself through Uni by working not at the tax payers expense:greengrin

[ArabHibee]

One wonders what that module's called at Abertay Uni. :dunno:

:faf: :top marks

[Bayern Bru]

:agree:

It was like that in my day also.

FWIW I done a "good" degree (Accounting) at a "good" University "Glasgow" having managed A's and B's in my highers. I would like to think that the standard required has not dropped but I have no idea.

Having a degree (any degree) certainly helped me get my job but it has nothing to do with accounting. In fact the only relevant thing I do with accounting is have a look at the Hibs end of year accounts and a laugh at the yams ones.

edit: I funded myself through Uni by working not at the tax payers expense:greengrin

I'm in the final year of a degree at a certain Scottish university. I needed four As to get into the course, and I know for a fact that the university is these days turning down students with five As for the same course, so certain universities are either increasing their entry requirements, or I just got lucky.:greengrin

But the point I'm making is that certain universities haven't 'dumbed down' their entry requirements.

[Darth Hibbie]

I'm in the final year of a degree at a certain Scottish university. I needed four As to get into the course, and I know for a fact that the university is these days turning down students with five As for the same course, so certain universities are either increasing their entry requirements, or I just got lucky.:greengrin

But the point I'm making is that certain universities haven't 'dumbed down' their entry requirements.

Glad to hear that.

Are they turning down people with 5 A's because they are looking for some other skill or are they looking for the grades over two years (5 was the max number of higher you could do in one year when I was at school).

[Bayern Bru]

Glad to hear that.

Are they turning down people with 5 A's because they are looking for some other skill or are they looking for the grades over two years (5 was the max number of higher you could do in one year when I was at school).

I could be wrong but I imagine it's to do with maintaining a high standard of student - I mean, obviously personal statement etc. plays a part too, but to the best of my knowledge it's the same for every degree subject and not just one or two.

5 is still the max number you can do in one year as far as I know; and of course there's the option to do Advanced Highers. It could of course just be coincidence that people with 5 A's were getting knocked back; I don't know for sure, but from the people I've been talking to, the entry requirements seem to have been tweaked slightly from when I was applying.

[HibbyScott]

I'm in the final year of a degree at a certain Scottish university. I needed four As to get into the course, and I know for a fact that the university is these days turning down students with five As for the same course, so certain universities are either increasing their entry requirements, or I just got lucky.:greengrin

But the point I'm making is that certain universities haven't 'dumbed down' their entry requirements.

I'm in my final year at Glasgow Uni, and our entry requirements have also increased since I got in - so I would also back up this statement.

As a side note - I got very lucky, getting into the only department of its type in Scotland right on the entrance requirements :thumbsup:

[Bayern Bru]

I'm in my final year at Glasgow Uni, and our entry requirements have also increased since I got in - so I would also back up this statement.

As a side note - I got very lucky, getting into the only department of its type in Scotland right on the entrance requirements :thumbsup:

Congrats on that, and thanks for backing up my statement. It's good to see that my statement wasn't just a load of Nade!
:greengrin

[Darth Hibbie]

I'm in my final year at Glasgow Uni, and our entry requirements have also increased since I got in - so I would also back up this statement.

As a side note - I got very lucky, getting into the only department of its type in Scotland right on the entrance requirements :thumbsup:

I would like to think so after all Glasgow is a proper Uni :duck::greengrin

[The_Todd]

From my experience, many students picked certain subjects at my high school because they 'wanted a skive.'

Quite depressing really.


But that always backfires. I did Drama in school because I was interested in it, and came out with a very good grade.

Others, however, picked it because they thought it would be a few hours of larking around every week and no work. These guys quickly dropped the subject when it became obvious there was a lot of work involved, and at the end of the 2 years the class was half the size it started out with.

[Sylar]

But that always backfires. I did Drama in school because I was interested in it, and came out with a very good grade.

Others, however, picked it because they thought it would be a few hours of larking around every week and no work. These guys quickly dropped the subject when it became obvious there was a lot of work involved, and at the end of the 2 years the class was half the size it started out with.

Quite.

I took Higher Media Studies in my 6th year at high school, thinking it would provide me with an easy subject, as I was doing 3 advanced highers at the time (English, Geography and Physics). I was very laissez faire with Media until I got a conditional offer for University, stating I had to obtain a B or better in it, to guarantee my place the following year.

That's one way to make someone take it seriously. Only once this happened did I actually appreciate how much work was required.

Never made the same mistake again, particularly with modular choices throughout my undergrad degree!

[IWasThere2016]

I'm in the final year of a degree at a certain Scottish university. I needed four As to get into the course, and I know for a fact that the university is these days turning down students with five As for the same course, so certain universities are either increasing their entry requirements, or I just got lucky.:greengrin

But the point I'm making is that certain universities haven't 'dumbed down' their entry requirements.

Does it not mean the 4A's are now the same as 5A's as everything is being dumbed down? :devil:

[PiemanP]

I'm in the final year of a degree at a certain Scottish university. I needed four As to get into the course, and I know for a fact that the university is these days turning down students with five As for the same course, so certain universities are either increasing their entry requirements, or I just got lucky.:greengrin

But the point I'm making is that certain universities haven't 'dumbed down' their entry requirements.


And im sure the degree that you are doing, which is turning away people with 5 A's, is not a 'diddy degree'.

I bet its bloody hard work, and when you qualify you want your degree to be recognised by the top employers.

Having a degree should be a statement which says that you are in the top percent of cleverst minds in the country, if everyman and his dog can get degrees in stupid subjects at fancy collages then it just dilutes the whole degree qualification!

[IWasThere2016]

I have to say - from personal experience - that I think a University education is not all it is cracked up to be.

I rejected two Unis and did a HND at my local College. Subsequently, I received greater credits on my professional exams than a degree. So I acheieved more in half the time. I then fast-tracked through my professional exams and qualified much faster than my peers. I can also say that of my group of friends in 5th/6th year of school who went to Uni, not one has been as successful as those of us who didn't :cool2:

For a small country we have too many Universities - particularly on the East Coast.

[vincipernoi]

apologies if this has been raised (going to work soon and can't read all 4 pages)

Napier Uni trains thenursing students for Embra and does loads of post grad diplomas for healthcare workers who already have jobs

not surprised that they have good employment stats

[Speedy]

I have to say - from personal experience - that I think a University education is not all it is cracked up to be.

I rejected two Unis and did a HND at my local College. Subsequently, I received greater credits on my professional exams than a degree. So I acheieved more in half the time. I then fast-tracked through my professional exams and qualified much faster than my peers. I can also say that of my group of friends in 5th/6th year of school who went to Uni, not one has been as successful as those of us who didn't :cool2:

For a small country we have too many Universities - particularly on the East Coast.

I have noticed that the people who have came into my course from college have more motivation and a better understanding of the material than those of us who have been in uni for the whole course.

[IWasThere2016]

I have noticed that the people who have came into my course from college have more motivation and a better understanding of the material than those of us who have been in uni for the whole course.

I work in a College and we get Uni graduates coming to College to get the skills for employment

[Twa Cairpets]

I have to say - from personal experience - that I think a University education is not all it is cracked up to be.

I rejected two Unis and did a HND at my local College. Subsequently, I received greater credits on my professional exams than a degree. So I acheieved more in half the time. I then fast-tracked through my professional exams and qualified much faster than my peers. I can also say that of my group of friends in 5th/6th year of school who went to Uni, not one has been as successful as those of us who didn't :cool2:

For a small country we have too many Universities - particularly on the East Coast.

TQM, depending on what your professional qualifications are and what your profession is, you may well be right, but I think if you expanded your analysis of success beyond your peer group at school, the facts of the matter are that people with degrees will - on average - do better in the world of work than those without.

I have friends who have excellent jobs who didnt go to University too, and friends who did who get by, but this isnt evidence. I couldnt do my job particularly well without gaining a particular post-graduate degree in my field, but that isnt evidence either. It just happens to be my experience.

Your last sentence is worrying. Surely youre not suggesting limiting the availability of further education?

[Beefster]

I work in a College and we get Uni graduates coming to College to get the skills for employment

It will depend on the degree and the university but a lot of degrees (humanities in particular) have nothing to do with the 'normal' workplace and don't pretend to.

[Bayern Bru]

And im sure the degree that you are doing, which is turning away people with 5 A's, is not a 'diddy degree'.

I bet its bloody hard work, and when you qualify you want your degree to be recognised by the top employers.

Having a degree should be a statement which says that you are in the top percent of cleverst minds in the country, if everyman and his dog can get degrees in stupid subjects at fancy collages then it just dilutes the whole degree qualification!

IIRC, my university is one of a handful to offer the course I'm doing (MA Hons International Relations), which partially explains why requirements are so high IMO - they want the best of the best. Some people view my degree as being less useful or not as worthwhile studying compared to a science degree, but I've never felt that certain degrees are worth more than others. Surely you study what you want, either because you want to use your degree in future employment, or because you just 'need' a degree to raise your employable-ness (employability?) anyway?

Top companies head hunt graduates from my university, graduates studying a wide variety of subjects, from Maths to Astrophysics, and from French to Modern History, because employers either believe, or maybe even expect graduates from this university to be the best they can get. I'll quite happily walk away from this university in June with my degree knowing that it'll add to my employability but at the same time, I know that it's not JUST my degree. It's everything I've done in addition to the degree as well, which is the same for anyone I'd imagine. It's very rare, I'd say, to be employed on degree alone. Yes, it would likely play a large part, but ultimately the person who has the best chance of getting the job is the one with the experience, the extra-curricular activities etc. as well as the degree.

I'm going to stop now before I feel like I'm chasing my tail! :dizzy:

[Calvin]

IIRC, my university is one of a handful to offer the course I'm doing (MA Hons International Relations)

I'm doing that as well but ended up in Aberdeen as I missed my condition for Glasgow by 3% in my RE Higher. I would have easily got into Glasgow if not for a 34% attendance in 5th year and 41% in 6th year due to weekly Migraines.

What I have found in Aberdeen are clever people who just missed out on the top Universities and took Aberdeen as an insurance choice or got in through clearing. As Aberdeen's entry requirements are slightly lower than Edinburgh or Glasgow's but has a much better reputation than the newer universities, it is a natural backup choice.

I'm studying German, Politics and International Relations. I want to move to Germany upon graduating and, to answer an earlier point, I concur that it is easier to learn a language when you live there but I also wanted a politics degree and I don't think my German is anywhere good enough yet to study politics at a German uni so studying a language in university is a natural choice for anyone wanting to do joint honours. Also, no matter how fluent you are at a language, as a native speaker of a foreign tongue it is always going to be easier to get employment if you have a degree in the language as opposed to just a knowledge of it.

On the point of people picking degree subjects 'for a skive', I'm not convinced that this is purely a bad thing. For a lot of people, university is where they develop confidence. One of my older friends was always very shy and retiring but after two years of university he is one of the most boisterous and outgoing people that I know. It's surely better that personal development happens on top of education rather than in a dead end job?!

[Hannah_hfc]

On the point of people picking degree subjects 'for a skive', I'm not convinced that this is purely a bad thing. For a lot of people, university is where they develop confidence. One of my older friends was always very shy and retiring but after two years of university he is one of the most boisterous and outgoing people that I know. It's surely better that personal development happens on top of education rather than in a dead end job?!

Wouldn't describe it as picking a subject for a "skive". I study management at Aberdeen (which gets alot of awkward silences and near-scoffs when you tell people), when i picked it I thought it would be a good general subject for getting into jobs once i graduate. Now compared to the RGU course, my one is more theory based, still an interesting and enjoyable course though. I'd also now say my experiences at Uni will stand me in better stead for post-student life than the degree itself. I'm club captain of the womens football team this year which in itself requires an endless to-do list of organisation, meetings, contacting people, planning ahead plus I work part time for money. It's these things I believe that have matured me since leaving home, along with living independently and I also believe its things like these which will pay off in the long run.

[NYHibby]

I'll be honest, I haven't read most of the third or fourth pages, but that being said, it seems like people are missing the fact that they are talking about two different things. There is a big difference between studying IR at St Andrews and doing some vocational/professional course at Napier or Robert Gordon. I'd imagine that IR at St Andrews is more inline with the Liberal Arts education I advocated earlier on. The people in each are going to be different too.

I remembered this thread because I got an email from a girl who is a 4th year at Robert Gordon. In her short two sentence message, she managed to misspell three words. If you can't spell dissertation correctly, I'm not going to send you the information you think will write your paper for you.

[steakbake]

I'll be honest, I haven't read most of the third or fourth pages, but that being said, it seems like people are missing the fact that they are talking about two different things. There is a big difference between studying IR at St Andrews and doing some vocational/professional course at Napier or Robert Gordon. I'd imagine that IR at St Andrews is more inline with the Liberal Arts education I advocated earlier on. The people in each are going to be different too.

I remembered this thread because I got an email from a girl who is a 4th year at Robert Gordon. In her short two sentence message, she managed to misspell three words. If you can't spell dissertation correctly, I'm not going to send you the information you think will write your paper for you.

you're paper for you :wink:

[NYHibby]

you're paper for you :wink:

You're joking right? It's hard to tell

[steakbake]

You're joking right? It's hard to tell

Come on, their's no way I don't know the difference between your and you're. :rolleyes:

[hibsdaft]

I remembered this thread because I got an email from a girl who is a 4th year at Robert Gordon. In her short two sentence message, she managed to misspell three words. If you can't spell dissertation correctly, I'm not going to send you the information you think will write your paper for you.

maybe she's dyslexic?

ideas ahead of spelling every time anyway.

[NYHibby]

maybe she's dyslexic?

ideas ahead of spelling every time anyway.

I'm terrible at spelling myself, but with spell check, there is no excuse for "versass"


Come on, their's no way I don't know the difference between your and you're. :rolleyes:

Got you the second time around

[hibsdaft]

I'm terrible at spelling myself, but with spell check, there is no excuse for "versass"

for submissions sure, spellchecking emails though?

[Beefster]

for submissions sure, spellchecking emails though?

I'm with NYHibby on spelling.

Doesn't every email, word processor and whatever else have a spell-checker built in? Everything I use seems to work away in the background highlighting whatever it doesn't recognise. That may just be OS X though.

[lapsedhibee]

You're joking right? It's hard to tell

Don't keep us in suspenders then. It's hard to tell what?
Oh I see - you meant that to be an entire sentence. :wink:

[Hainan Hibs]

I'll be honest, I haven't read most of the third or fourth pages, but that being said, it seems like people are missing the fact that they are talking about two different things. There is a big difference between studying IR at St Andrews and doing some vocational/professional course at Napier or Robert Gordon. I'd imagine that IR at St Andrews is more inline with the Liberal Arts education I advocated earlier on. The people in each are going to be different too.

I remembered this thread because I got an email from a girl who is a 4th year at Robert Gordon. In her short two sentence message, she managed to misspell three words. If you can't spell dissertation correctly, I'm not going to send you the information you think will write your paper for you.

RGU must be doing something right with it's graduate employment rate.

[IWasThere2016]

Can we agree tae birch this one? Total Asrehole! (http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/Student-Philip-Laing-Urinates-On-First-World-War-Memorial-In-Sheffield/Article/200910315407024?lpos=UK_News_Right_Promo_Region_3&lid=ARTICLE_15407024_Student_Philip_Laing_Urinates _On_First_World_War_Memorial_In_Sheffield) :agree:

[lapsedhibee]

Can we agree tae birch this one? Total Asrehole! (http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/Student-Philip-Laing-Urinates-On-First-World-War-Memorial-In-Sheffield/Article/200910315407024?lpos=UK_News_Right_Promo_Region_3&lid=ARTICLE_15407024_Student_Philip_Laing_Urinates _On_First_World_War_Memorial_In_Sheffield) :agree:

Like the way that the organisers of the event (called "Carnage") express shock horror at anyone getting so out of their head that they didn't know what they were doing. Aye, that must almost never happen :fibber:

[Haymaker]

Like the way that the organisers of the event (called "Carnage") express shock horror at anyone getting so out of their head that they didn't know what they were doing. Aye, that must almost never happen :fibber:

Those nights piss me off royally as a new student. Its pointless and pathetic. :grr:

[Speedy]

Those nights piss me off royally as a new student. Its pointless and pathetic. :grr:

Lots of pissed dirty birds though so it's fairly obvious why they are popular :thumbsup:

[Ryan91]

No they dont state it on the entrance criteria, but as has already been mentioned entrants are judged on a points system, which D's and E's do count towards.

Universities like Napier have much lower entrance criteria than other uni's.

I have a mate who is doing computing at Napier, he has 4 highers (which took 2 years to attain ffs) of which his highest is a B in PE. because he has a whole host of other lower grades that meant he met the criteria. And how PE is a higher is also beyond me!

IMO you should need at least 5 Highers at B upwards to do any degree, that would mean less people attaining degrees and would mean a degree would recognise only the top pupils.


Universities should also look at where the highers (or other grade) have been earnt. Subjects like Maths and English, sciences should be recognised above subjects like admin and business studies.

This is from personal experience, as i got A's for both of those subjects above whilst only attaining a B for Higher Maths.
The Uni's will give me more points for those 2 A's than my B in maths, when in reality the Maths course is far more challenging and shows greater ability IMO.

:top marks i've got agree with you there I know so many people that have subjects like Media Studies, Business Management etc. at A grade Higher yet they get more points than me even though i have a B at both Maths and Physics at Higher and in all Honesty it would seem like they are both far harder than BusMan (as it is refered to by my friends). Talking about this has me thinking about Friends that have gone to English Universities they have to attain the same grades to do Physics (for example) as English students, but the English A-Level exam is not as difficult as the Scottish Advanced Higher (which is considered to be like doing a 1st year Uni course), but because we have a different system we're being effectively penalised.


I agreed with a lot of your post but I have to stop you here.

As a Physics graduate myself, you will be able to understand where I am coming from. Less and less people are choosing Physics (and science in general).

Why? Because it is seen as a difficult option.

It is much easier to get a business/media studies/sport science/catering degree than a Physics degree. Even last year in my final honours year I had friends studying arts/business degrees getting a far easier time than me, with a significantly lighter workload.

Add in the massive amount of all round skills you get from a physics degree (High level of numeracy, practical skills, report writing skills, analytical skills etc etc) and it seems ludicrous that these degrees are given equal status.

--------------

Somebody earlier had a go at Napier University. Before making comments like that you may want to take a look at statistics clearly showing the Napier and Robert Gordon in Aberdeen are two of the best universities in the UK for students going on to meaningful employment.

Why? Because they have courses tailored to the job market.

I'm more concerned about the ever increasing number of school leavers being sent off to uni, many of whom should not be there. This will only decrease standards further.

I remember speaking to my supervisor last year (Physics at University of Glasgow) and he was getting more and more alarmed by the lack of knowledge first year students have. I saw it myself in my first year maths tutorials, people with an alarming lack of knowledge of the fundamentals.
As a result they are having to spoon feed students so much in 1st and 2nd year with standards diminished, these students are simply not going to be able to make what is already a difficult jump up to honours years 3 and 4.

Setting targets for 50% of school leavers to get a degree only serves to;

1. Waste public funds
2. Undermine the whole degree system

Glesgae Hibby, :top marks for the entire post, i do remember discussing the whole Physics degree thing around about this time last year, out of all the people in my year, i am the only person who has decided to do Physics at University, that is 1 person from 220, i know of a couple of people doing Engineering but even then only 3 people in the entire year are doing Physics/Engineering at university, both these courses have more places than applicants every year. Rant over

[PiemanP]

Lots of pissed dirty birds though so it's fairly obvious why they are popular :thumbsup:

:greengrin