Yogi (merged)

[HIBERNIALEITH]

T
And the award for the biggest overreaction of the night goes to........


Spot on! Give him time! Yes, he talks the game, but let him get the boys to gel! Jeez people on here seem to think that he is the messiah,or that is ****! He is human, he is trying to do a job! I'll bet they all had doubts on T Mowbray (didn't give anything)! JC (who I did think was God) and maybe they would be happy with Blobby back at the realm! We are Hibs. We aint world beaters! But we love them. Through thick and thin! We will bleed green until we die. End of.

[Toaods]

I do think saying you did not want him from the start, and dont want him now, is really not giving him the best support you could be though.


my view on here, doesn;t necessarily mean I roll up at the game an dgive him pellters though. I want the team to win whoever is in charge. That doesn't stop me having an alternative personal viewpoint.



OK - maybe I was paraphrasing a wee bit - but posts 8, 31, 34, 43, 49 on this thread show that some of the disappointment was almost bordering on hysteria .

More to the point your own post 69 stated at the end "this game could show whether he’s got the ability to manage.." (once again paraphrasing)

So what I'm asking is whether today's performance has allayed anyones fears at all???

I said could show.

Ii could argue that Zemamma's performance today showed Yogi blew iit in the CIS by not playing him from the start - but I won't...:greengrin

[yogi984]

my view on here, doesn;t necessarily mean I roll up at the game an dgive him pellters though. I want the team to win whoever is in charge. That doesn't stop me having an alternative personal viewpoint.




I said could show.

Ii could argue that Zemamma's performance today showed Yogi blew iit in the CIS by not playing him from the start - but I won't...:greengrin

Whos to say he wasnt feeling the effects of fasting and wasnt considered fit enough.

[blackpoolhibs]

[QUOTE=Toaods;2190056]my view on here, doesn;t necessarily mean I roll up at the game an dgive him pellters though. I want the team to win whoever is in charge. That doesn't stop me having an alternative personal viewpoint.

I realise that Toads, although you seem to have made your mind up very quickly on him, you did say you dont want him now. Yes you can judge him on his Falkirk days, but he needs to be judged on what he does at hibs, and a couple of months is surely not long enough.:confused:

[Toaods]

I realise that Toads, although you seem to have made your mind up very quickly on him, you did say you dont want him now. Yes you can judge him on his Falkirk days, but he needs to be judged on what he does at hibs, and a couple of months is surely not long enough.:confused:

true, as you know though......I'm rarely wrong. :greengrin














*typed as a light-hearted comment.

[Toaods]

Whos to say he wasnt feeling the effects of fasting and wasnt considered fit enough.

he does and JC and Mixu did. he's not as strict in his worship as Benji.

[blackpoolhibs]

true, as you know though......I'm rarely wrong. :greengrin














*typed as a light-hearted comment.
I think you are confusing yourself with me.:wink:

[yogi984]

he does and JC and Mixu did. he's not as strict in his worship as Benji.

Whos to say mixu and collins were right to play him? What I seen today was a refreshed wee man tear well a new one. I think the fasts been handled well by the gaffer and im sure zemmama and benji appreciate it. Both hated it under mixu.

[Toaods]

What I seen today was a refreshed wee man tear well a new one.

yes but that had little to do with the fasting, more to do with a wee bundle of amazing talent who played out of his skin probably still in utter disbelief he couldn't get a start in midweek ahead of at least three other inferiors.

[Ravelston Hibby]

Willing to be proved wrong (as usual!!) but I think Hibs Spain might be an undercover Yam! Please someone prove me wrong. :confused:

What a loady!!! (Controversial that Is!) :wink:

[matty_f]

Willing to be proved wrong (as usual!!) but I think Hibs Spain might be an undercover Yam! Please someone prove me wrong. :confused:

What a loady!!! (Controversial that Is!) :wink:

He's 100% definitely not a Yam. Season ticket holder at ER.:agree:

[Removed]

He's 100% definitely not a Yam. Season ticket holder at ER.:agree:

Still a fud though :agree:

[basehibby]

yes but that had little to do with the fasting, more to do with a wee bundle of amazing talent who played out of his skin probably still in utter disbelief he couldn't get a start in midweek ahead of at least three other inferiors.

FWIW I'd play Zemama from the start whenever possible as well - one of my favourite players without a doubt. But I don't know the background on it and I wouldn't judge Hughes or any other manager on that isolated decision anyway.
As someone posted a wee while back, he's only human and will make mistakes. But I think he already has made more good decisions than bad and will continue to do so.
I have no crystal ball but I believe Hughes to have the right experience and credentials as well as caring passionately about the job - it might take a wee while but I can see today's performance level becoming more typical and Tuesday's less so as time goes on and the team gels - here's hoping anyway eh? :thumbsup:

[Ravelston Hibby]

Still a fud though :agree:

:agree:

[matty_f]

Still a fud though :agree:

Only if you take the bait.:greengrin

Sure he's not all that bad, really.

[Removed]

Only if you take the bait.:greengrin

Sure he's not all that bad, really.

You are way more tolerant than me, I know that :cool2:

[matty_f]

You are way more tolerant than me, I know that :cool2:

:agree::greengrin

[Toaods]

FWIW I'd play Zemama from the start whenever possible as well - one of my favourite players without a doubt. But I don't know the background on it and I wouldn't judge Hughes or any other manager on that isolated decision anyway.
As someone posted a wee while back, he's only human and will make mistakes. But I think he already has made more good decisions than bad and will continue to do so.
I have no crystal ball but I believe Hughes to have the right experience and credentials as well as caring passionately about the job - it might take a wee while but I can see today's performance level becoming more typical and Tuesday's less so as time goes on and the team gels - here's hoping anyway eh? :thumbsup:


Agreed....as you say Yogi, same as every other manager will make mistakes and may be uncertain as to whether they have made a mistake or not.

What better way than nipping onto her or the Bounce to find out the fans were fully behind you that you'd dropped a clanger?

It's constructive if taken in the right way. Sometimes you need to decide whether to disregard criticism and do your own thing.

When it comes to the crunch - I doubt Yogi will base any decision he makes on comments typed on an internet forum.

:cool2:

[blackpoolhibs]

Agreed....as you say Yogi, same as every other manager will make mistakes and may be uncertain as to whether they have made a mistake or not.

What better way than nipping onto her or the Bounce to find out the fans were fully behind you that you'd dropped a clanger?

It's constructive if taken in the right way. Sometimes you need to decide whether to disregard criticism and do your own thing.

When it comes to the crunch - I doubt Yogi will base any decision he makes on comments typed on an internet forum.

:cool2:
Do you still not want him Toads? :devil:

[Toaods]

Do you still not want him Toads? :devil:


I'm not swayed yet...I might swither after Tynie and Ibrox though....:cool2:

[--------]

I think we need to have patience and allow John Hughes AT LEAST as much time as was allowed to Mixu and Collins. 18 months, in other words. I'll be very surprised if the team hasn't gelled a lot more effectively by next Christmas than it has just now - after EIGHT competitive matches.

And I'll be very interested to see whether Gannon's still at Fir Park next Christmas. I have a feeling he'll be off back south before too very long.....

[WindyMiller]

I think we need to have patience and allow John Hughes AT LEAST as much time as was allowed to Mixu and Collins. 18 months, in other words. I'll be very surprised if the team hasn't gelled a lot more effectively by next Christmas than it has just now - after EIGHT competitive matches.

And I'll be very interested to see whether Gannon's still at Fir Park next Christmas. I have a feeling he'll be off back south before too very long.....

Perhaps their early start to the season has given them a bit of an edge. I'll be interested in seeing how they handle the last 2-3 months before the split.

I think he's a decent manager who's willing to work with a tight budget and wheel and deal at the lower end of the market. As you say he 's not liable to be there long if he's successful, nor would he have been here long, in that situation.

Although I was not for Hughes, and would've liked someone outside "the usaul suspects", I think we may have the best manager we could have at this time.

[Expecting Rain]

Yogi has just taken his coat off, brought in quality players like Stokes and Miller, seen the return of Zemmama and there`s more to come.

[--------]

Perhaps their early start to the season has given them a bit of an edge. I'll be interested in seeing how they handle the last 2-3 months before the split.

I think he's a decent manager who's willing to work with a tight budget and wheel and deal at the lower end of the market. As you say he 's not liable to be there long if he's successful, nor would he have been here long, in that situation.

Although I was not for Hughes, and would've liked someone outside "the usaul suspects", I think we may have the best manager we could have at this time.


I'm not denigrating Gannon - I would have been quite happy if we had appointed him rather than Hughes. I consider his comments after the game on Saturday to have been refreshingly professional and to the point - people like Strachan and Mowbray and McGhee could take lessons from him. I'm surprised that he wasn't approached in the summer by some of the Championship/Div One sides in England, actually.

I'm happy with what Hughes has achieved in his first 4 months. I'd have been happier if he had managed to bring in at least one defender in addition to the signings he did make, but that's one of the drawbacks of the window system and the presence of agents - you can't always get what you want when you want it. FWIW, I notice Craigan still seems to be out of favour with Gannon - maybe he'd be worth a pop in January? He's always seemed an honest, decent-class centre-half to me.

I suspect that as fans we may underestimate the degree of instability the past 5 years have engendered in the ER dressing-room.

Mowbray (IMO) bailed out just before the crap hit the fan regarding the transfer of the last of what some call the 'Golden Generation' - Thomson, Brown, Murphy, Whittaker. (He also left us a legacy of priceless goalkeeping talent the like of which I have never seen at any senior football club in my life.)

Collins had a great start, and a lot of his ideas were 100% correct, but he failed to get the players onside, he failed to sell his ideas of fitness and lifestyle, and he clearly lost the respect and support of the players. Craig is your one and only original chocolate teapot, IMO.

Mixu had the support of a lot of the fans at first, but quite simply didn't have the tactical nous or the media skills to turn the team around or to get and keep the fans on his side. (I do not ever want to hear the adjective 'fantastic' applied to any football team ever again.) IMO he left a lot of discord and confusion among the fans which is a major element in the problem Hughes will have to solve.

We've gone from Williamson to Mowbray to Collins to Paatelainen to Hughes in 6 years. We really need to steady the ship, and that will take time. That's the real underlying difficulty facing John Hughes right now.

In that time we've punted lots of players as not good enough, brought in lots of replacements that often proved to be no better than those who had just left, lost an ocean of highly talented players, admittedly for good fees, then brought in more replacements who were certainly not as good as the guys who had left, then repeated this whole process not once, but twice. I'm actually amazed we're functioning as well as we are. (That has to be to the credit of our at times much-maligned chairman, CEO, and board. And the owner.)

On the plus side we opened East Mains, and finally we have a manager and coaching staff who appear to know what to do with it.

Right now it's not just about turning the team around, IMO. I'd say that John and his staff now have to get the club structure up and running as it ought to be - a decent, attractive team on the pitch, an improvement in results leading to European qualification, more bums on the seats in the stadium, and an increasing stream of young talent coming into the first team from the U-19s and reserves. And younger talent still arriving from the younger teams through East Mains and the youth scouts.

I am trying VERY hard to be patient, and to curb my instinct to a knee-jerk reaction when results disappoint me. I do think we're on the right track, and I'm happy with JH and what he's doing. I'll soon enough say whan I change my mind. But I reckon the squad's much healthier right now than it was 5 months ago, and I expect it to be further strengthened in January.

It would have been interesting to see what Gannon would have made of the set-up at Hibs, though. :devil:

[euro Hibby]

good post from Dodie which just about sums up the situation.

What does not change is that we remain probably a selling team so we need to do better what selling teams do :

- replace with quality
- use loaned players which is economical
- keep the conveyer belt moving
- take part ownership of players from lower clubs.
- keep season tickets sales high
- keep the same backroom team as long as possible.

Third spot is open this year and who knows maybe even second.
Now is the time to go for it.........

[--------]

good post from Dodie which just about sums up the situation.

What does not change is that we remain probably a selling team so we need to do better what selling teams do :

- replace with quality
- use loaned players which is economical
- keep the conveyer belt moving
- take part ownership of players from lower clubs.
- keep season tickets sales high
- keep the same backroom team as long as possible.

Third spot is open this year and who knows maybe even second.
Now is the time to go for it.........


:agree:

This is the crux of the matter - we WILL have to sell players to keep the club financially stable. These six points are the 'to-do list' for the Board and Management teams over the next 10 years. Because those who don't do these things are going to find themselves seriously on the slide.

[cockneymike]

I agree with the previous doddie and euro, 3rd definitely is open and we have the best midfield to attack by a long way. I am a bit concerned that JH still doesn't seem to have a clear idea on his best defence yet; but I still think we should get there or at least be in with a good shout right till May.

On a side note I also wonder if Stack's reluctance to come for crosses is due to lack of understanding due to the changes in the CBs in front of him; any ongoing problems with his back/ hamstrings; or if he is just a bit dodgy....

All in all I'd take where we are today, and where I think we're heading under JH any day of the week - and importantly long may it continue!

[--------]

I agree with the previous doddie and euro, 3rd definitely is open and we have the best midfield to attack by a long way. I am a bit concerned that JH still doesn't seem to have a clear idea on his best defence yet; but I still think we should get there or at least be in with a good shout right till May.

On a side note I also wonder if Stack's reluctance to come for crosses is due to lack of understanding due to the changes in the CBs in front of him; any ongoing problems with his back/ hamstrings; or if he is just a bit dodgy....

All in all I'd take where we are today, and where I think we're heading under JH any day of the week - and importantly long may it continue!


Agree that the back four is the area of the team that gives most concern.

I was just thinking back, though, and it isn't as easy as it once was. If we were working without transfer windows (and without agents complicating matters) Yogi could have identified (say) a centre-half, talked to the club and ascertained what sort of fee they were looking for, and signed him, all within a fortnight at most. He might not even have had to speak to the player other than to tell him which locker he could use at East Mains....

We lost John McNamee around this point in the season 1966-67 (IIRC!) and had John Madsen in from Denmark in a matter of 3 or 4 weeks. Colin Stein went to Rangers, and we had Joe McBride in the very next week. Peter Marinello went to Arsenal and Johnny Graham came in for him within the fortnight.

Now we have a 'window' which has 'slammed shut' until the New Year. I'm fairly sure that when it re-opens in January we'll see some more signings to stiffen the defence.

And I think you may very well be right about GS - but I don't think certain individuals will get off his case on that account.

[Hibs On Tour]

I'm not denigrating Gannon - I would have been quite happy if we had appointed him rather than Hughes. I consider his comments after the game on Saturday to have been refreshingly professional and to the point - people like Strachan and Mowbray and McGhee could take lessons from him. I'm surprised that he wasn't approached in the summer by some of the Championship/Div One sides in England, actually.

I'm happy with what Hughes has achieved in his first 4 months. I'd have been happier if he had managed to bring in at least one defender in addition to the signings he did make, but that's one of the drawbacks of the window system and the presence of agents - you can't always get what you want when you want it. FWIW, I notice Craigan still seems to be out of favour with Gannon - maybe he'd be worth a pop in January? He's always seemed an honest, decent-class centre-half to me.

I suspect that as fans we may underestimate the degree of instability the past 5 years have engendered in the ER dressing-room.

Mowbray (IMO) bailed out just before the crap hit the fan regarding the transfer of the last of what some call the 'Golden Generation' - Thomson, Brown, Murphy, Whittaker. (He also left us a legacy of priceless goalkeeping talent the like of which I have never seen at any senior football club in my life.)

Collins had a great start, and a lot of his ideas were 100% correct, but he failed to get the players onside, he failed to sell his ideas of fitness and lifestyle, and he clearly lost the respect and support of the players. Craig is your one and only original chocolate teapot, IMO.

Mixu had the support of a lot of the fans at first, but quite simply didn't have the tactical nous or the media skills to turn the team around or to get and keep the fans on his side. (I do not ever want to hear the adjective 'fantastic' applied to any football team ever again.) IMO he left a lot of discord and confusion among the fans which is a major element in the problem Hughes will have to solve.

We've gone from Williamson to Mowbray to Collins to Paatelainen to Hughes in 6 years. We really need to steady the ship, and that will take time. That's the real underlying difficulty facing John Hughes right now.

In that time we've punted lots of players as not good enough, brought in lots of replacements that often proved to be no better than those who had just left, lost an ocean of highly talented players, admittedly for good fees, then brought in more replacements who were certainly not as good as the guys who had left, then repeated this whole process not once, but twice. I'm actually amazed we're functioning as well as we are. (That has to be to the credit of our at times much-maligned chairman, CEO, and board. And the owner.)

On the plus side we opened East Mains, and finally we have a manager and coaching staff who appear to know what to do with it.

Right now it's not just about turning the team around, IMO. I'd say that John and his staff now have to get the club structure up and running as it ought to be - a decent, attractive team on the pitch, an improvement in results leading to European qualification, more bums on the seats in the stadium, and an increasing stream of young talent coming into the first team from the U-19s and reserves. And younger talent still arriving from the younger teams through East Mains and the youth scouts.

I am trying VERY hard to be patient, and to curb my instinct to a knee-jerk reaction when results disappoint me. I do think we're on the right track, and I'm happy with JH and what he's doing. I'll soon enough say whan I change my mind. But I reckon the squad's much healthier right now than it was 5 months ago, and I expect it to be further strengthened in January.

It would have been interesting to see what Gannon would have made of the set-up at Hibs, though. :devil:

:top marks:applause: Best post I have seen on the subject in some considerable time!

[jacomo]

:top marks:applause: Best post I have seen on the subject in some considerable time!

I'll second that - great post by Doddie.

I think we all have to be patient... whether or not Hughes was everyone's first choice for the job, I would hope that he is in it for the long term, and not going to walk away when things get tricky - as Mowbray and Collins did.

Long term stability is exactly what this club needs if we are to achieve our potential.

[blackpoolhibs]

After watching all of Yogi's interviews, and seeing the way the team is developing, i'm even more sure we got the right man. Also if and its a big if, if he brings us success, i have this feeling he would not jump ship if a bigger team came in for him. Maybe i'm wrong, but i do feel Hibs is the top job in Yogi's mind, and he's at the best club in the world.

I'm not stupid enough to think he'd stay for ever, but i do think he will stay for a lot longer than most, and any success we have, would obviously attract bigger clubs, but because Hibs actually mean something to him, the support actually mean something to him, Leith actually means something to him, add that all up, and i think he will stay longer than your average Joe, looking to step up, and move onto the bigger stage as quick as they can.

Maybe i'm wrong, but i just dont see him as someone who will drop us in the *****.

[matty_f]

After watching all of Yogi's interviews, and seeing the way the team is developing, i'm even more sure we got the right man. Also if and its a big if, if he brings us success, i have this feeling he would not jump ship if a bigger team came in for him. Maybe i'm wrong, but i do feel Hibs is the top job in Yogi's mind, and he's at the best club in the world.

I'm not stupid enough to think he'd stay for ever, but i do think he will stay for a lot longer than most, and any success we have, would obviously attract bigger clubs, but because Hibs actually mean something to him, the support actually mean something to him, Leith actually means something to him, add that all up, and i think he will stay longer than your average Joe, looking to step up, and move onto the bigger stage as quick as they can.

Maybe i'm wrong, but i just dont see him as someone who will drop us in the *****.
:top marks


I think you only have to look at the way in which he left Falkirk to see that he respects his employer.

I too am 100% sure that he's the right guy for the job. He clearly has a vision for the club that goes beyond winning the next football match.

I think that's one of the key differences between Yogi and Mixu. With Mixu I always felt he was more afraid of losing than he was determined to win, and I never really got a sense of where the club were headed under Mixu.

With Yogi, results just now aren't that important to him in the grand scheme of things. I think he sees wins and defeats at this stage of his tenure as small steps on the path to greater things with Hibs. I genuinely sense he is building something at the club, and the thing is - if I'm getting that vibe from his interviews and his signings etc, then the players should be getting that too.

Here we have a manager that is ideally placed to galvanise the club and get it back on track after the disappointments of JC (cup win excepted) and Mixu.

For all people will point to the fact that Falkirk narrowly escaped relegation in Yogi's last season with the club, you have to say that he left them in a much better position than when he took over. From the stadium to their training facilities at Stirling - Yogi was in charge through that transition, all the while maintaining a decent style of football, and Falkirk's SPL status under a hugely restricted budget. I would wager that the deals he's struck at Hibs already outspend what he had at Falkirk over a number of years.

Yogi is very much at the start of what he wants to do at the club. IMHO, he will enjoy success at Hibs at some level, be it 3rd place finishes or perhaps a cup win somewhere along the line.

[Chuckie]

Yogi is the messiah...

[poolman]

I am trying VERY hard to be patient, and to curb my instinct to a knee-jerk reaction when results disappoint me. I do think we're on the right track, and I'm happy with JH and what he's doing. I'll soon enough say whan I change my mind. But I reckon the squad's much healthier right now than it was 5 months ago, and I expect it to be further strengthened in January.

It would have been interesting to see what Gannon would have made of the set-up at Hibs, though. :devil:


Very much agree with what you say there Doddie

I really think we are on the right track, I think we probably have to strengthen the defence in the Jan window but the squad looks the best for some tome now and I also think that if Gannon was there we would not have Stokes or Millar in our squad :agree: