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View Full Version : True professionals - or a bunch of Jakey neds?



RIP
14-09-2009, 04:59 PM
We have lacked consistency for years. Now after a defeat there's rumours surfacing about another player out drinking before the game.

Several former players (O'Connor, Whittaker, Fletcher, Thomson, Murphy) have been interviewed reflecting on their new-found professional attitude, discipline and or fitness since leaving Hibs

As fans we have had to suffer story after story about altercations in or outside nightclubs, missed training sessions, players revolts, court appearances, players fined or disciplined.

We are constantly signing players with 'troubled pasts' optimistically hoping that our manager can achieve what Roy Keane, Alex Ferguson, Gordon Strachan could not do and get the best out of a wayward player.

Mowbray tried psychology and motivation, Collins tried health, diet and fitness, Mixu tried to be everyone's pal. Now Yogi is starting to despair and talking about taking the gloves off. He is apparently at a loss to understand why players 'do not turn up' for every game?

4-3-3, 4-4-2, 4-5-1. These combinations may make a difference match to match but at the end of the day if the club continues to tolerate lack of dedication to fitness and workrate there's very little a coach can do to change it

I blame the employer for the continued lack of productivity not the team leader

I'm_cabbaged
14-09-2009, 05:08 PM
We have lacked consistency for years. Now after a defeat there's rumours surfacing about another player out drinking before the game.

Several former players (O'Connor, Whittaker, Fletcher, Thomson, Murphy) have been interviewed reflecting on their new-found professional attitude, discipline and or fitness since leaving Hibs

As fans we have had to suffer story after story about altercations in or outside nightclubs, missed training sessions, players revolts, court appearances, players fined or disciplined.

We are constantly signing players with 'troubled pasts' optimistically hoping that our manager can achieve what Roy Keane, Alex Ferguson, Gordon Strachan could not do and get the best out of a wayward player.

Mowbray tried psychology and motivation, Collins tried health, diet and fitness, Mixu tried to be everyone's pal. Now Yogi is starting to despair and talking about taking the gloves off. He is apparently at a loss to understand why players 'do not turn up' for every game?

4-3-3, 4-4-2, 4-5-1. These combinations may make a difference match to match but at the end of the day if the club continues to tolerate lack of dedication to fitness and workrate there's very little a coach can do to change it

I blame the employer for the continued lack of productivity not the team leader

Who's that then? :confused:

Pedantic_Hibee
14-09-2009, 05:14 PM
Who's that then? :confused:

Wee Zemmama, he was witnessed in the Iona Bar shouting out "Heineken's allowed during Ramadan so up ye!!" on Friday night.

Disgraceful.

I'm_cabbaged
14-09-2009, 05:27 PM
Wee Zemmama, he was witnessed in the Iona Bar shouting out "Heineken's allowed during Ramadan so up ye!!" on Friday night.

Disgraceful.

Nae problem with that, it was a Sunday game mind. :agree:

s.a.m
14-09-2009, 05:53 PM
While I'm not disagreeing with the OP about the importance of leading an life appropriate to a professional athlete, I'm pretty sure that Celtic and Rangers have suffered their fair share of unsavoury drinking / fighting / nightclub incidents:dunno:.

I'm prepared to believe that , in general, expectations are higher at the big clubs, and perhaps that is something we should try to emulate. It seems to me, though, that footballers in general seem to appear awfully regularly in the news pages of the papers.

hibsbollah
14-09-2009, 05:57 PM
Wee Zemmama, he was witnessed in the Iona Bar shouting out "Heineken's allowed during Ramadan so up ye!!" on Friday night.

Disgraceful.

Thats total nonsense:grr:















...it was the Four in Hand:agree:

NOLA
14-09-2009, 06:32 PM
Wee Zemmama, he was witnessed in the Iona Bar shouting out "Heineken's allowed during Ramadan so up ye!!" on Friday night.

Disgraceful.

if only Carlsberg did Ramadan :greengrin

WindyMiller
14-09-2009, 06:37 PM
We have lacked consistency for years. Now after a defeat there's rumours surfacing about another player out drinking before the game. Aye, these stories never surface when we're winning

Several former players (O'Connor, Whittaker, Fletcher, Thomson, Murphy) have been interviewed reflecting on their new-found professional attitude, discipline and or fitness since leaving Hibs.

As fans we have had to suffer story after story about altercations in or outside nightclubs, missed training sessions, players revolts, court appearances, players fined or disciplined.

We are constantly signing players with 'troubled pasts' optimistically hoping that our manager can achieve what Roy Keane, Alex Ferguson, Gordon Strachan could not do and get the best out of a wayward player.

Mowbray tried psychology and motivation, Collins tried health, diet and fitness, Mixu tried to be everyone's pal. Now Yogi is starting to despair and talking about taking the gloves off. He is apparently at a loss to understand why players 'do not turn up' for every game?

4-3-3, 4-4-2, 4-5-1. These combinations may make a difference match to match but at the end of the day if the club continues to tolerate lack of dedication to fitness and workrate there's very little a coach can do to change it

I blame the employer for the continued lack of productivity not the team leader. You mean Petrie?

It's the manager's job to supervise the work done by the East Mains staff. If things aren't done properly and there's an adverse effect on the players' performance the "employer" will sack the manager and find another.

BEEJ
14-09-2009, 10:18 PM
Mowbray tried psychology and motivation, Collins tried health, diet and fitness, Mixu tried to be everyone's pal. Now Yogi is starting to despair and talking about taking the gloves off.
Just as long as he stops at the gloves ....

:greengrin

silverhibee
14-09-2009, 11:02 PM
Just as long as he stops at the gloves ....

:greengrin

And keeps the lights on to.:thumbsup:

Speedway
14-09-2009, 11:12 PM
There's a fair point here.

On getting off the team bus on Sunday, Hogg (our club captain lest we forget) had his index right up his nostril looking to oust a confrontational bogart.

When he got it, he wiped it on Bamba's kit bag, I mean, michty...do the players have no respect for this club?

Then again, when you sign for a club owned, managed and supported by a bunch of disease ridden, peg selling, knee jerking hobos, what sort of conduct can you realistically expect from the playing personnel?

Toaods
14-09-2009, 11:20 PM
There's a fair point here.

On getting off the team bus on Sunday, Hogg (our club captain lest we forget) had his index right up his nostril looking to oust a confrontational bogart.


you trying to tell us subliminally that big Winston could be making his Hibs debut on saturday at right back???

Steve-O
15-09-2009, 06:20 AM
Young big heads with too much cash, there's your problem.

And like Yogi said, some who think they are better than they are. Still getting their wages every week and going out on the town acting like the big men so why should they bother their a*se week in, week out?

RIP
15-09-2009, 08:05 AM
Young big heads with too much cash, there's your problem.

And like Yogi said, some who think they are better than they are. Still getting their wages every week and going out on the town acting like the big men so why should they bother their a*se week in, week out?

It's not so much the 2 guys allegedly out on a bender for 4 days in Dublin that get my goat. It's not even the effect on team morale that makes me sad and angry. Not even the painful thought that when most of our players are training very hard and buying into the manager's philosophy, others are swinging the lead.

Yogi has now stated publicly that not turning up has been a problem since long before he became manager...............

"But yesterday was the same problem as I feel it has been for the last couple of years:"

Some players thinking the game owes them something, that they are better than others. They maybe don't have to train as hard, don't have to show the same discipline on and off the park

Yogi, Mixu, Collins and Mowbray all inherited this problem and couldn't lick it. Why is that?

Because at the end of the day they are football coaches only. They do not pay the wages. They are merely employees just like the players they coach.

They are also more transitory e.g. We have half a dozen players working under their third manager. So managers come and go but players stay at the club until released or signed by another club. The player is the more permanent employee, not the coach

No if Yogi seriously wants to fix these problems he is going to need the backing of a radical sea chnage in attitude from Rod Petrie, Scott Lindsay and the Hibs Board. They have presided over these problems for years and as the employer it is they and not Yogi that are paying players wages. Employee discipline is ultimately an employer responsibility. One that the club has been paying lip service to in recent seasons IMO

WindyMiller
15-09-2009, 08:39 AM
It's not so much the 2 guys allegedly out on a bender for 4 days in Dublin that get my goat. It's not even the effect on team morale that makes me sad and angry. Not even the painful thought that when most of our players are training very hard and buying into the manager's philosophy, others are swinging the lead.

Yogi has now stated publicly that not turning up has been a problem since long before he became manager...............

"But yesterday was the same problem as I feel it has been for the last couple of years:"

Some players thinking the game owes them something, that they are better than others. They maybe don't have to train as hard, don't have to show the same discipline on and off the park

Yogi, Mixu, Collins and Mowbray all inherited this problem and couldn't lick it. Why is that?

Because at the end of the day they are football coaches only. They do not pay the wages. They are merely employees just like the players they coach.

They are also more transitory e.g. We have half a dozen players working under their third manager. So managers come and go but players stay at the club until released or signed by another club. The player is the more permanent employee, not the coach

No if Yogi seriously wants to fix these problems he is going to need the backing of a radical sea chnage in attitude from Rod Petrie, Scott Lindsay and the Hibs Board. They have presided over these problems for years and as the employer it is they and not Yogi that are paying players wages. Employee discipline is ultimately an employer responsibility. One that the club has been paying lip service to in recent seasons IMO

Absolute drivel, and a typical knee-jerk reaction to a poor performance!
It's the manager's job to ensure players train well and follow the rules regarding time off etc. If the players won't take heed then the manger can go to he Board and ask for these players to be moved on.

HFC 0-7
15-09-2009, 08:45 AM
We have lacked consistency for years. Now after a defeat there's rumours surfacing about another player out drinking before the game.

Several former players (O'Connor, Whittaker, Fletcher, Thomson, Murphy) have been interviewed reflecting on their new-found professional attitude, discipline and or fitness since leaving Hibs

As fans we have had to suffer story after story about altercations in or outside nightclubs, missed training sessions, players revolts, court appearances, players fined or disciplined.

We are constantly signing players with 'troubled pasts' optimistically hoping that our manager can achieve what Roy Keane, Alex Ferguson, Gordon Strachan could not do and get the best out of a wayward player.

Mowbray tried psychology and motivation, Collins tried health, diet and fitness, Mixu tried to be everyone's pal. Now Yogi is starting to despair and talking about taking the gloves off. He is apparently at a loss to understand why players 'do not turn up' for every game?

4-3-3, 4-4-2, 4-5-1. These combinations may make a difference match to match but at the end of the day if the club continues to tolerate lack of dedication to fitness and workrate there's very little a coach can do to change it

I blame the employer for the continued lack of productivity not the team leader


I think this is getting blown out of proportions. I have heard rumours that a certain player was blootered on Saturday night and hangover on sunday. Its just a rumour though and nothing confirmed. Yogi admits there is a problem, but are we not just clutching at straws as to what it is? It could just be ego's, not drinking etc. Riordin, although still trying to get into night clubs etc, seems to be working harder in training and on the pitch. So if that is the case who cares what they do off the pitch as long as they do the business on it. Personally I think the problems Yogi has been refferring to are all to do with ego. In thr last few games I have seen Yogi shouting at players from the touchline and the players giving some back to yogi, I think this is what yogi is talking about.

johnrebus
15-09-2009, 08:49 AM
So, who are the ' jakey neds ' , then ?

Why talk around the problem ?

Riordan ?
Stokes ?
Any others ?

I'm dissapointed that Yogi has come out wringing his hands about the attitude on Sunday. Bleating to the Press will only make matters worse.

IMHO he should have told the media it was a ' bad day at the office ' , and then got stuck into the players in private.

I still have faith in John Hughes, but he had plenty time at Falkirk to learn how to deal with this type of poblem and his approach here does concern me.

:boo hoo:

Steve-O
15-09-2009, 08:54 AM
Basically I think some players know that Hibs would be worse off without them, so they can get away with anything. In the unlikely event Hibs boot them, someone will take them on!

However, when such players go to the OF or EPL, they are aware that it's their big chance and are suddenly willing to knuckle down...cue interviews talking about how they are working harder than ever and how it's 'different' at the OF as you're expected to win :blah:

Phil D. Rolls
15-09-2009, 09:12 AM
We got beat by Hamilton Accies, we were poor, get over it. It's a game of football FFS. Johann Cruyff used to smoke 40 a day, didn't do him any harm. (apart from needing a heart bypass - but he was professional enough to get it when his career was over).

Steve-O
15-09-2009, 09:39 AM
We got beat by Hamilton Accies, we were poor, get over it. It's a game of football FFS. Johann Cruyff used to smoke 40 a day, didn't do him any harm. (apart from needing a heart bypass - but he was professional enough to get it when his career was over).

Pointless comparing Best, Cruyff etc - for one thing it's a completely different game now, and for two, none of our players are anywhere near that good by a long, long way.

J-C
15-09-2009, 09:40 AM
So, who are the ' jakey neds ' , then ?

Why talk around the problem ?

Riordan ?
Stokes ?
Any others ?

I'm dissapointed that Yogi has come out wringing his hands about the attitude on Sunday. Bleating to the Press will only make matters worse.

IMHO he should have told the media it was a ' bad day at the office ' , and then got stuck into the players in private.

I still have faith in John Hughes, but he had plenty time at Falkirk to learn how to deal with this type of poblem and his approach here does concern me.

:boo hoo:

Can't agree here, players are on good wages and should act like pros, Yogi has seen these same players turnit on occassionally when they can be arsed and therein lies your problem. He has only said what a lot of us are thinking and good on him for doing that, it shows he's still a supporter of the club and only wants the best.


If these few players, who earn a good wad don't buck up their ideas, Yogi has now stated that they will be shown the door, no matter who they are, or think they are.

Phil D. Rolls
15-09-2009, 09:43 AM
Pointless comparing Best, Cruyff etc - for one thing it's a completely different game now, and for two, none of our players are anywhere near that good by a long, long way.

My thoughts were that true skill is more important that extreme fitness.

I just have a problem with this new attitude that footballers should aim for the same fitness levels as the likes of Olympic athletes. I think they are better concentrating on the game than trying to squeeze that extra 0.0001% of fitness.

A drink now and again is hardly going to make that much difference. Different if they drank like Ally MacLeod, or Malky Robertson. But then you would see the evidence before they ever tried to kick a ball.

Steve-O
15-09-2009, 09:46 AM
My thoughts were that true skill is more important that extreme fitness.

I just have a problem with this new attitude that footballers should aim for the same fitness levels as the likes of Olympic athletes. I think they are better concentrating on the game than trying to squeeze that extra 0.0001% of fitness.

A drink now and again is hardly going to make that much difference. Different if they drank like Ally MacLeod, or Malky Robertson. But then you would see the evidence before they ever tried to kick a ball.

True skill might be more important, but I don't think our players are at the standard where they can afford not to bother too much about fitness.

Nobody truly knows how much they are drinking, and it depends on your definition of 'now and again' - for a lot of them it seems to be every single weekend, which is more often than I, a mere office worker, go on the bevvy.

Phil D. Rolls
15-09-2009, 09:47 AM
True skill might be more important, but I don't think our players are at the standard where they can afford not to bother too much about fitness.

Nobody truly knows how much they are drinking, and it depends on your definition of 'now and again' - for a lot of them it seems to be every single weekend, which is more often than I, a mere office worker, go on the bevvy.

Maybe if you ran around as much as them you'd be thirstier? :greengrin

Steve-O
15-09-2009, 09:52 AM
Maybe if you ran around as much as them you'd be thirstier? :greengrin

Perhaps...the spare cash would help as well though...:wink:

Thigh ar la
15-09-2009, 10:31 AM
I think that ultimately is the fans that decide how high the expectations of any club are. Perhaps if their behaviour was not tolerated in the stands through a poor display etc these players would think twice about getting pissed up on a weekend night.
I think that there is an inherant lack of expectation at Easter Road that seems to manifest itself in the players attitudes. How many times have we failed to do the business when we are expected to win and when the door is open to us winning anything..
In Scottish terms, Hibs are a very big club and this has not been borne out out by our success rate. How is this and how can we not win things in a relatively easy environment from which to do so?

RIP
15-09-2009, 11:54 AM
Absolute drivel, and a typical knee-jerk reaction to a poor performance!
It's the manager's job to ensure players train well and follow the rules regarding time off etc. If the players won't take heed then the manger can go to he Board and ask for these players to be moved on.

Are you talking about this poor performance on Sunday? I'm not. I'm talking about systematic underchievement, a failure to "play like an underdog" against the wee teams as Yogi so eloquently puts it, lack of comittment to fitness and discipline that has been more prevalent at Easter Road than at any other club in the SPL since it's inception.

Anyone who thinks this is solely a problem that Yogi can sort out lacks a real understanding of employee relations and company 'culture'. Surely the penny is starting to drop now that Yogi is the sixth manager in a row to face these problems. This manager is going to need more backing FFS.

WTF do we pay this board for if not to help him sort out the club from top to bottom. We need to cleanse the club of this shabby reputation once and for all

hibsbollah
15-09-2009, 12:08 PM
We're doomed:boo hoo:





:rolleyes:

(((Fergus)))
15-09-2009, 12:49 PM
If the big shots are too good to try against the likes of Hamilton, then I'd play the second-string guys who have a point to prove. At least you'd get a performance and chances are you'd get a result as well. Maybe the big shots would get a wake-up call too.

sevenil
15-09-2009, 01:09 PM
I'm dissapointed that Yogi has come out wringing his hands about the attitude on Sunday. Bleating to the Press will only make matters worse.

IMHO he should have told the media it was a ' bad day at the office ' , and then got stuck into the players in private.

I still have faith in John Hughes, but he had plenty time at Falkirk to learn how to deal with this type of poblem and his approach here does concern me.

:boo hoo:

I Concur
(The word agree isn't Hibs class)

Phil MaGlass
15-09-2009, 03:15 PM
Wee Zemmama, he was witnessed in the Iona Bar shouting out "Heineken's allowed during Ramadan so up ye!!" on Friday night.

Disgraceful.

hahahahaha:thumbsup:

Phil MaGlass
15-09-2009, 03:22 PM
just like to add that I dont think true skill will beat fitness as any teams of today could outstrip, run or fart any teams of the past,if youre not fit enough in todays game basically youre not good enough.Doesnae matter if youre a magician wae a baw,if you dont run or hunt with the pack yir oot, look at Riordon or Boyd, if you dont pull yir weight yir oot.Now both are pulling their weight they are better players.

Phil D. Rolls
17-09-2009, 07:51 AM
I think that ultimately is the fans that decide how high the expectations of any club are. Perhaps if their behaviour was not tolerated in the stands through a poor display etc these players would think twice about getting pissed up on a weekend night.
I think that there is an inherant lack of expectation at Easter Road that seems to manifest itself in the players attitudes. How many times have we failed to do the business when we are expected to win and when the door is open to us winning anything..
In Scottish terms, Hibs are a very big club and this has not been borne out out by our success rate. How is this and how can we not win things in a relatively easy environment from which to do so?

I think you are right, our expectation levels are far too low. It's evidenced by how quickly the supporters heads go down when things are going against us.

I also think it is deeply ironic that a punch of pot, no cauldron, bellied middle aged men set such high expectations of players in terms of fitness, when they can't even be bothered to watch the game for 90 minutes. They are up for pies or to empty their bladder within 10 minutes of arriving.

Teams like Hearts have always thought of themselves as winners, and that is why they win so many more trophies than us. I think maybe we should be copying their business model a bit more closely.

hibsbollah
17-09-2009, 08:04 AM
I think you are right, our expectation levels are far too low. It's evidenced by how quickly the supporters heads go down when things are going against us.

I also think it is deeply ironic that a punch of pot, no cauldron, bellied middle aged men set such high expectations of players in terms of fitness, when they can't even be bothered to watch the game for 90 minutes. They are up for pies or to empty their bladder within 10 minutes of arriving.

Teams like Hearts have always thought of themselves as winners, and that is why they win so many more trophies than us. I think maybe we should be copying their business model a bit more closely.

2nd paragraph, I agree completely:top marks
3rd paragraph, I assume you're having a laugh:faf:

Mon Dieu4
17-09-2009, 08:13 AM
2nd paragraph, I agree completely:top marks
3rd paragraph, I assume you're having a laugh:faf:

If you leave your seat at any point on Saturday other than half & full time I shall be forced to remind you of this :faf:

hibsbollah
17-09-2009, 08:15 AM
If you leave your seat at any point on Saturday other than half & full time I shall be forced to remind you of this :faf:

It'll never happen:greengrin

Mon Dieu4
17-09-2009, 08:17 AM
It'll never happen:greengrin

Will with me, once the seal is broken :faf:

Phil D. Rolls
17-09-2009, 11:06 AM
2nd paragraph, I agree completely:top marks
3rd paragraph, I assume you're having a laugh:faf:

Just covering the bases, in case there are any trolls around.:agree:

bighairyfaeleith
17-09-2009, 11:29 AM
****ing heineken, little cant should be kicked oot form drinking that pish, definitely not hibs class.

Did he even use a brown paper bag????

As far as I'm concerned if a player wants to get pissed on a friday night when there is no game on the saturday then fair dues.