The Tories

[Ed De Gramo]

That man Cameron talks a good game...but then i suppose they all do until they get into power and then shaft the country...

[lyonhibs]

If I shook hands with David Cameron, I'd double check I still had 5 fingers afterwards.

Odious, greasy oik, with naff all in the ways of ideas apart from the opposition classic of:

"What they are doing is wrong, we won't do that"

I wouldn't trust many politicians with any decent amount of my money these days, but I wouldn't trust him or Osborne with a penny I picked up off the street.

[Jonnyboy]

If I shook hands with David Cameron, I'd double check I still had 5 fingers afterwards.

Odious, greasy oik, with naff all in the ways of ideas apart from the opposition classic of:

"What they are doing is wrong, we won't do that"

I wouldn't trust many politicians with any decent amount of my money these days, but I wouldn't trust him or Osborne with a penny I picked up off the street.

:top marks:agree:

[GC]

If I shook hands with David Cameron, I'd double check I still had 5 fingers afterwards.

Odious, greasy oik, with naff all in the ways of ideas apart from the opposition classic of:

"What they are doing is wrong, we won't do that"

I wouldn't trust many politicians with any decent amount of my money these days, but I wouldn't trust him or Osborne with a penny I picked up off the street.

He's the next Prime Minister though, that's a certainty.

[hibsdaft]

"judge a man by the company he keeps".

[Hibbie_Cameron]

That man Cameron talks a good game...but then i suppose they all do until they get into power and then shaft the country...


Cheers:wink:

The guy is a slaver and voting for him/his party would never cross my mind

[steakbake]

I think the Tory PR and strategy machine have engineered this absolutely perfectly. Cameron is to the floating voters, the acceptable face of a renewed lighter blue style of conservatism. However, beyond him, who else is there on their benches which would make you think they've genuinely changed as a party?

The Tories, barring a miracle for Labour or an even bigger miracle for the LibDems will be the next UK government and all within the year. I'm still half expecting an election in December, but Brown's reigning in of his internal critics seems to have made that less likely than a few months ago. I do think, though, that Brutus in this situation will be played by Alistair Darling. Watch this space.

[Betty Boop]

He's the next Prime Minister though, that's a certainty.

Then we'll know all about it! :bitchy:

[GC]

Then we'll know all about it! :bitchy:

My vote for the General Election will remain the same as always and it is not for the Tories, I do feel that Cameron is a marked improvement on his counterparts in the party in terms of being media savvy, but he still won't get my vote.

True what I said tho Betty, sadly it's also true what you said.

[The_Todd]

They usually have to get into power before being exposed as a power hungry liar.

Cameron has already been exposed yet his stock doesn't appear to be going up - anyone remember his "cycle to work" stunt? Fair play on doing that, but it kinda ruins the whole point of it when your bike is being followed by a car carrying your briefcase.

As bad as Labour may be, I really fear for us if these guys get in.

[steakbake]

They usually have to get into power before being exposed as a power hungry liar.

Cameron has already been exposed yet his stock doesn't appear to be going up - anyone remember his "cycle to work" stunt? Fair play on doing that, but it kinda ruins the whole point of it when your bike is being followed by a car carrying your briefcase.

As bad as Labour may be, I really fear for us if these guys get in.

If/when it does happen, then having a Scottish government who will speak up for what it considers to be the Scottish national interest regardless of how Westminster might view it, will be absolutely essential.

And I say that to mean not just any future SNP government. Labour/Libdems will have to grow a set and start making their own decisions north of the border.

[Steve-O]

That man Cameron talks a good game...but then i suppose they all do until they get into power and then shaft the country...

Just like Labour and the SNP then?

[GlesgaeHibby]

That man Cameron talks a good game...but then i suppose they all do until they get into power and then shaft the country...

That's his job. He's a politcian!

[New Corrie]

Yeah, the prospect of the Tories getting in must really fill people with dread! I mean, given that Labour have done such a good job of running the country, why change anything? Heading for 3 million unemployed, rich/poor divide wider than ever, 1000 job losses everyday, 8 times the national debt than they inherited etc etc.......

[The_Todd]

Yeah, the prospect of the Tories getting in must really fill people with dread! I mean, given that Labour have done such a good job of running the country, why change anything? Heading for 3 million unemployed, rich/poor divide wider than ever, 1000 job losses everyday, 8 times the national debt than they inherited etc etc.......


Exactly my fear. Under a supposed socialist party the rich/poor divide gets bigger. I'd hate to see what happens under a pure capitalist government.

[Ed De Gramo]

Just like Labour and the SNP then?

:greengrin

You must be kidding....

[Green Mikey]

Exactly my fear. Under a supposed socialist party the rich/poor divide gets bigger. I'd hate to see what happens under a pure capitalist government.

New Labour were never a socialist party (in the economic sense), you are confusing them with the previous incarnations of the Labour Party.

New Labour moved further to the right so that the could take the voting middle ground from the Tories. Regardless of political affiliation this was a masterstroke and has provided them with a lenghty term in office.

The link below is to Hotelling's law. It's an economic principle but has been adapted to different circumstances ie. New Labour.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hotelling%27s_law

[LiverpoolHibs]

New Labour were never a socialist party (in the economic sense), you are confusing them with the previous incarnations of the Labour Party.

New Labour moved further to the right so that the could take the voting middle ground from the Tories. Regardless of political affiliation this was a masterstroke and has provided them with a lenghty term in office.

The link below is to Hotelling's law. It's an economic principle but has been adapted to different circumstances ie. New Labour.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hotelling%27s_law

I'm not sure it can be called a 'masterstroke'. Mandelson, Phillip Gould and Matthew Freud just observed exactly what Clinton and the Democrats were doing and had done in the U.S. and did it over here, essentially.

[hibsdaft]

I wouldn't trust him or Osborne with a penny I picked up off the street.

he is number 1 in this pic here:
http://markgorman.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/osborne-bullingdon.jpg

there is something highly sinister about this man.

rumours about some of his antics in his twenties seem to confirm this - a guy who seems totally comfortable abusing his inherited wealth and position.

this man speaks for about 1-5% of the population.

then that geeky little worm Michael Gove, who likes playing toy soldiers (literally) and will have a say on sending people he's probably never spoken to in his life off to war. a discredited neo-liberal lunatic as bad as Dick Cheney.

when people say there is no difference between New Labour and Tory i am inclined to agree, but then i look at this gang of ****s and i remember that people also said that in 2000 when the US Presidential Election was between that stuck up, vain but sane ****-hole Al Gore and the lunatic George Bush. we all know how that ended.

[Green Mikey]

I'm not sure it can be called a 'masterstroke'. Mandelson, Phillip Gould and Matthew Freud just observed exactly what Clinton and the Democrats were doing and had done in the U.S. and did it over here, essentially.

I think it was a masterstroke in the context of British politics.

New Labour managed to persuade the middle-right to vote for them whilst their existing supporters were (maybe some still are) under the impression that they were a socialist party. The policy may have been copied from the Democratics but it doesn't diminish the impact that it had on UK politics.

[Phil D. Rolls]

He's the next Prime Minister though, that's a certainty.

They said that about Neil Kinnock. In troubled times though, people tend to be frightened of change, and stick with the status quo. I won't be surprised if Broon manages to get re-elected.

Out of the two, he'd get my vote. He might be dull, he might be a bottler, but he's been over the course. Cameron is just an opportunist toff. He comes over all nicey nicey, but I honestly don't think he gives a monkeys about what he says, as long as it gets him elected.

[New Corrie]

They said that about Neil Kinnock. In troubled times though, people tend to be frightened of change, and stick with the status quo. I won't be surprised if Broon manages to get re-elected.

Out of the two, he'd get my vote. He might be dull, he might be a bottler, but he's been over the course. Cameron is just an opportunist toff. He comes over all nicey nicey, but I honestly don't think he gives a monkeys about what he says, as long as it gets him elected.


And we might win the Scottish Cup! Come on FR, Labour are history, the Kinnock scenario was a bit different.

[Phil D. Rolls]

And we might win the Scottish Cup! Come on FR, Labour are history, the Kinnock scenario was a bit different.

At this stage it's all about sentiment. People say things in public that they don't back up at the ballot box.

Why was the Kinnock situation different?

[hibsdaft]

dunno corrie greens, the economy is slowly turning around, in 9 months time Brown will be taking the credit for this and will be saying what was Cameron's way out of it?

you never know imo.

[New Corrie]

At this stage it's all about sentiment. People say things in public that they don't back up at the ballot box.

Why was the Kinnock situation different?


Because the country wasn't £800 Billion in debt, economicaly Britain was in decent shape and you can rest assured that Cameron will not self destruct and do a "Sheffield".....Kinnocks implosion is quite a famous yardstick in British politics...can't see it being repeated.

---------- Post added at 06:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:58 PM ----------


dunno corrie greens, the economy is slowly turning around, in 9 months time Brown will be taking the credit for this and will be saying what was Cameron's way out of it?

you never know imo.


It would be an astonishing turnaround Hibsdaft! I may well be wrong, but I just can't see them recovering.

[joe breezy]

The SNP are banking on a Conservative victory to have any hope of winning the independence referendum

[da-robster]

And we might win the Scottish Cup! Come on FR, Labour are history, the Kinnock scenario was a bit different.

Are you saying they will never be back a bit like the liberals after the first world war.

[Part/Time Supporter]

The SNP are banking on a Conservative victory to have any hope of winning the independence referendum

It's a good strategy, you have to admit.

:devil:

[borders.cabbage]

Yeah, the prospect of the Tories getting in must really fill people with dread! I mean, given that Labour have done such a good job of running the country, why change anything? Heading for 3 million unemployed, rich/poor divide wider than ever, 1000 job losses everyday, 8 times the national debt than they inherited etc etc.......

Did this not happen under Tory party rule in the 1980's ?

[Pete]

The tories want to "re-think" tax credits. That would mean disaster for the genuine hard working families around the country.

I like the way cameron talks but he simply doesn't live in the real world.

I'd sooner have old/new labour and Gordon Brown over that bunch of greedy capitalist gits.

New face...same "greed is good" policies!

**** off conservative.

[ballengeich]

Hibs get a brief mention in the current edition of Private Eye. The article is about David Rowland, the bankroller of ex-chairman David Duff and mastermind behind the Mercer attempt to close us down. Mr Rowland has had a "colourful" financial career.

The article is prompted by Rowland's donation of £1 million to the Tory party.

The content above is from a thread I started a few days ago. I direct your attention to the type of person who support the Tories.

[steakbake]

dunno corrie greens, the economy is slowly turning around, in 9 months time Brown will be taking the credit for this and will be saying what was Cameron's way out of it?

you never know imo.

to be honest, the polling analysis i have read (or at least, what i have read and understood) doesn't make good reading for Brown. time and again when asked, people will blame him for the financial collapse but any recovery is likely to be seen as "natural consequences" for which he would not credibly be able to take the credit as far as voters are concerned. its a bit of a no win situation.

perhaps key to the possibility of a tory win in may (or december!) are those marginal seats which any party needs to win to secure victory. the tories are recording leads of up to 20% in some of these areas which until recently, were "marginal", i.e, only a few percent separated the two competing parties.

summary - whatever happens financially, the evidence seems to suggest that brown will take the credit only if it is bad news. i've also read commentaries which show that if the electorate are given the opportunity to cast their vote on brown v cameron, cameron comes out on top by roughly the same margin as blair had over major going into the 97 election. the one i'm looking at while writing this is based on current net satisfaction on a head to head basis. brown is on -33 and cameron on +14. in some polls, cameron leads by even more.

its not exactly the thatcher/foot comparison in which thatcher was miles ahead, but it is by no means like 92 where only a few percentage points separated major and kinnock.

labour's best chance seems to be to ditch brown, get a new leader (particularly alan johnson) to go to the country and try not to make the defeat so heavy that they are out of contention in 2014/2015. a good campaign by johnson might even be enough for a hung parliament if all went well for labour on the run up.

[Steve-O]

:greengrin

You must be kidding....

Why? Been a huge success have they?

I still have my student loan debt that they promised to write off for starters...:yawn:

[steakbake]

it's not for the want of trying, steve-o.

Personally i totally object to the idea. why should the tax payer fork out to cover a debt that you ran up?

i'd like my mortgage paid off, but it ain't going to happen.

[Steve-O]

it's not for the want of trying, steve-o.

Personally i totally object to the idea. why should the tax payer fork out to cover a debt that you ran up?

i'd like my mortgage paid off, but it ain't going to happen.

That's fine that you disagree with it, but it was one of their election promises, and they didn't keep it, so that's my problem.

I never asked for the debt to be written off, but when the SNP said they'd do it, I wasn't exactly opposed, just like you wouldn't be if they said they'd write off your mortgage.

[steakbake]

That's fine that you disagree with it, but it was one of their election promises, and they didn't keep it, so that's my problem.

I never asked for the debt to be written off, but when the SNP said they'd do it, I wasn't exactly opposed, just like you wouldn't be if they said they'd write off your mortgage.

I've also got a student loan, though. Thousands of pounds of it still left to pay. I ran it up, I spent it and my name is at the bottom of all the credit agreements. It was my decision to go to university, the government at the time (Tories) didn't tell me to do it.

I didn't mean to jump on you as an example, but some of the debate about fees/student loans reflects a wider malaise in society in which people don't take their responsibilities seriously but seem perfectly aware of their entitlements.

Given a better majority, the SNP might have been able to do more than they have. Perhaps in the next manifesto they should write "subject to parliamentary majority".

[lyonhibs]

If - as seems likely - Cameron and the Tories get in at the next election, I can predict with a fair degree of confidence (although it's all about opinions I guess :greengrin) that there will be clamour for the "good old days" a whole lot quicker than clamour regarding "We miss the Tory days" after Labour got elected in 1997.

In fact, can anyone, in ALL honesty, say that they preferred the country 15 years ago under the Tories??

Keeping in mind, that no matter how many crafty slogans or PR spins you put on it, you can't teach any old dog (espeically the Tories) new tricks, and that the Tories have not changed.

[Phil D. Rolls]

I've also got a student loan, though. Thousands of pounds of it still left to pay. I ran it up, I spent it and my name is at the bottom of all the credit agreements. It was my decision to go to university, the government at the time (Tories) didn't tell me to do it.

I didn't mean to jump on you as an example, but some of the debate about fees/student loans reflects a wider malaise in society in which people don't take their responsibilities seriously but seem perfectly aware of their entitlements.

Given a better majority, the SNP might have been able to do more than they have. Perhaps in the next manifesto they should write "subject to parliamentary majority".

As a full time student, whose Bursary scheme excludes me from access to cheap finance arrangements such as student loans, I sometime find people whingeing about them a bit laughable.

When I was driving a cab, I couldn't fail to notice the number of poor students who were able to go out to clubs three times a week, wear designer clothers, and sport the latest mobile phones.

I also notice that the student loan experience doesn't put them off borrowing cash when they graduate to buy: luxury apartments; flashy cars and foreign holidays.

Like you say, no-one makes people go to University. The loans they get are at a fair rate; and they aren't slow to spend money when it comes into their hands.

Anyone spare a couple of quid by the way? I can't be arsed going to my part time job this week.

[duncs]

All Cameron has to do to win is shut up.

This might sound ridiculous, but he hasn't really spoken at all. Earlier in the week he was talking about reducing the size of Parliament. But where were the plans to back it up, all Cameron does is make flippant, tokenistic soundbites that sound great but in reality, there is no further thought to what would happen. Having said that, the 'soundbite culture' that is endemic in UK politics has a lot to do with New Labour - Blair could beat Major, Hague, IDS et al in a clever soundbite despite the fact he regularly took a beating in the Commons - now we're in a position where the Tories have a far better communicator as leader than Labour.

The SNP must be pi$hing themselves in excitement over the prospect of a Tory administration in London. All their Christmas' will come at once if that happens.

As an afterthought, how about Mandelson as next Labour leader? Although I don't feel a lot of warmth towards him (and I suspect I'm not alone) he would be an effective stop-gap that would steady the ship. Just an opinion mind, but Mandelson could groom the next would-be leader and stop the slide that might happen after the next General Election.

[Phil D. Rolls]

All Cameron has to do to win is shut up.

This might sound ridiculous, but he hasn't really spoken at all. Earlier in the week he was talking about reducing the size of Parliament. But where were the plans to back it up, all Cameron does is make flippant, tokenistic soundbites that sound great but in reality, there is no further thought to what would happen. Having said that, the 'soundbite culture' that is endemic in UK politics has a lot to do with New Labour - Blair could beat Major, Hague, IDS et al in a clever soundbite despite the fact he regularly took a beating in the Commons - now we're in a position where the Tories have a far better communicator as leader than Labour.

The SNP must be pi$hing themselves in excitement over the prospect of a Tory administration in London. All their Christmas' will come at once if that happens.

As an afterthought, how about Mandelson as next Labour leader? Although I don't feel a lot of warmth towards him (and I suspect I'm not alone) he would be an effective stop-gap that would steady the ship. Just an opinion mind, but Mandelson could groom the next would-be leader and stop the slide that might happen after the next General Election.

If the Tories take London, there is a chance that some of Scottish Labour MPs might start looking for a job up here. I think that is when the real Scottish Parliament will get underway, Labour have been p*ss poor in government up here, and p*ss poor in opposition. They are numpties.

I reckon Mandelson would do well running the country, but I think he is one of these Machiavellian characters that prefers to stay out of the limelight, and let others do his work. They do say he did a fine job in Northern Ireland though.

[Dashing Bob S]

Cameron is a smarmy Blair Mk 2 and the Tories, if anything, would be an even bigger disaster than New Labour. I can see a very low turnout at the next election are their isn't really anyone worth voting for.

[Woody1985]

Cameron is a smarmy Blair Mk 2 and the Tories, if anything, would be an even bigger disaster than New Labour. I can see a very low turnout at the next election are their isn't really anyone worth voting for.

There will be the usual for people who don't vote i.e everyone should use their vote etc even if there's nothing worth voting for.

The next election will be made up of mainly 'Make sure you vote for someone so that the BNP don't get votes and a bigger representation'. If the mainstream gave people good reason to vote then they would.

IIRC at the last election Labour's spiel was 'Please don't vote for the Lib Dems (for traditional L voters) because the tories will get in the back door.

Politics is too much of 'Vote for us because they're ****ter than us' than it is about voting for a party that will improve lives.

[Steve-O]

As a full time student, whose Bursary scheme excludes me from access to cheap finance arrangements such as student loans, I sometime find people whingeing about them a bit laughable.

When I was driving a cab, I couldn't fail to notice the number of poor students who were able to go out to clubs three times a week, wear designer clothers, and sport the latest mobile phones.

I also notice that the student loan experience doesn't put them off borrowing cash when they graduate to buy: luxury apartments; flashy cars and foreign holidays.

Like you say, no-one makes people go to University. The loans they get are at a fair rate; and they aren't slow to spend money when it comes into their hands.

Anyone spare a couple of quid by the way? I can't be arsed going to my part time job this week.

You're making the mistake of confusing "whingeing about student loans" and complaining about the SNP not keeping their promise to write off all student debt.

Had they never made the promise, I would never have expected my debt to be written off, and therefore not be complaining right now.

[Dashing Bob S]

There will be the usual for people who don't vote i.e everyone should use their vote etc even if there's nothing worth voting for.

The next election will be made up of mainly 'Make sure you vote for someone so that the BNP don't get votes and a bigger representation'. If the mainstream gave people good reason to vote then they would.

IIRC at the last election Labour's spiel was 'Please don't vote for the Lib Dems (for traditional L voters) because the tories will get in the back door.

Politics is too much of 'Vote for us because they're ****ter than us' than it is about voting for a party that will improve lives.

I hate all this 'you must vote cause people fought and died for it' nonsense. People fought for the right to vote, which includes the right not to vote. It's up to those who would seek office to make their policies attractive to ordinary voters, not to browbeat and stigmatise those who, often with very good reason, refuse to participate in the farce.

[Sir David Gray]

I hate all this 'you must vote cause people fought and died for it' nonsense. People fought for the right to vote, which includes the right not to vote. It's up to those who would seek office to make their policies attractive to ordinary voters, not to browbeat and stigmatise those who, often with very good reason, refuse to participate in the farce.

Fair enough, I accept that none of the main options might be very good but the main reason why I'll be voting at the next General Election and why I vote in every election, is that I realise how lucky I am to have such a freedom. I also know that there are billions of people all over the world who do not have the right to vote and then there are those who are able to vote but that the election process in their country is so corrupt that they might as well not bother.

[Dashing Bob S]

Fair enough, I accept that none of the main options might be very good but the main reason why I'll be voting at the next General Election and why I vote in every election, is that I realise how lucky I am to have such a freedom. I also know that there are billions of people all over the world who do not have the right to vote and then there are those who are able to vote but that the election process in their country is so corrupt that they might as well not bother.

But the right to vote intrinsically includes the right not to vote. If the element of choice of is removed, it's not a freedom but a compulsion, and is meaningless in terms of democracy.

[steakbake]

Fair enough, I accept that none of the main options might be very good but the main reason why I'll be voting at the next General Election and why I vote in every election, is that I realise how lucky I am to have such a freedom. I also know that there are billions of people all over the world who do not have the right to vote and then there are those who are able to vote but that the election process in their country is so corrupt that they might as well not bother.

Voting is the only time we are asked, so we might as well give an answer.

People mustn't be forced to vote though. We live in a democracy (though sometimes I wonder).

[anon1]

I'll be voting as it's the only chance we get to really make our voices heard. I'll not be voting for any of the media spun **** however, I'll be voting for the people that have the best ideas / plans for my local community.