Should Burley be sacked?

[Sylar]

Enough is enough.

Incapable of picking a squad/team, can't ring changes, can't see the obvious flaws, and a record which rivals Vogts' tenure.

[Westie1875]

Enough is enough.

Incapable of picking a squad/team, can't ring changes, can't see the obvious flaws, and a record which rivals Vogts' tenure.

Yep, get rid, who replaces him?

[--------]

Yep, get rid, who replaces him?


Bobby Williamson?

He HAS experience of international football after all. :devil:

[Sylar]

Yep, get rid, who replaces him?

Christ, I'll do it!

[CyberSauzee]

Yep, get rid, who replaces him?

Dashing Bob of course

[cabbageandribs1875]

Yep, get rid, who replaces him?

bertie vogt's please :greengrin

[Sir David Gray]

He will be away now, no question. :agree:

[MacBean]

strachan??

[--------]

Williamson.

Calderwood.

Except it's not juust Burley - it's the whole rotten set-up of Scottish football.

[stu in nottingham]

Scotland's problems are far deeper than can be sorted out by any Manager. Scottish football in general is ailing badly and has been for years.

[Gerrintaethem]

Scotland were bloody brilliant tonight.

:confused:

[davym7062]

Scotland were bloody brilliant tonight.

:confused:

:agree::agree::agree:

give burley the next campaign i say

we cant change manager every 2 years. give him time and i reckon he'll get it right

[Gatecrasher]

Craig levein

[Sylar]

Sadly, all of the above is true - but those in power at the top of the Scottish game are a law unto themselves, and the "pride" will no doubt have been restored somehow with tonight's good performance.

Burley was hampered a bit with the loss of McFadden and Gordon tonight, but over the entire campaign, he showed himself to be tactically naive and unable to pick a squad with enough depth and cover.

An entire overhaul is needed, but sadly, is unlikely to come.

[the_ginger_hibee]

His inability to pick squads and his utter utter drivel subs and timing of them are much harder to take than his terrible results. Which are still terrible

Burley Out

[Hanny]

Scotland were bloody brilliant tonight.

:confused:


:agree::agree::agree:

give burley the next campaign i say

Forgotten the Norway game already?

Skipping the fact he's alienated our best natural goalscorer not to mention 3 others? (whether you agree or not)

Poor campaign, poorly managed overall.

We need someone with more presence and experience.

Burley Out.

[PISTOL1875]

I think Burley will walk now.. He would've been told at the start of the campaign the play-off's would've been the target...

[Www1875hfc]

Sadly, all of the above is true - but those in power at the top of the Scottish game are a law unto themselves, and the "pride" will no doubt have been restored somehow with tonight's good performance.

Burley was hampered a bit with the loss of McFadden and Gordon tonight, but over the entire campaign, he showed himself to be tactically naive and unable to pick a squad with enough depth and cover.

An entire overhaul is needed, but sadly, is unlikely to come.

Yes i agree,and start from the guys in suits? its jobs for the boys,and its about time all the free loaders were emptied.scottish football is rotten to the core,its not what you know,its who you know.:agree:

[hibsbollah]

Scotland were bloody brilliant tonight.

:confused:

Shaded the game and if we had a decent striker on the pitch for more than a few minutes would have won it. More 'glorious failure':blah::blah:

[18Craig75]

I think he's got to go...bottled it tonight. I thought Fletch & O'Connor should have been on with 30mins to go. We should have thrown the kitchen sink at them and left Hartley to help clear up at the back.

I agree changes need to be made from top to bottom.

What do we expect by now but?! :boo hoo:

[RickyS]

I think he's got to go...bottled it tonight. I thought Fletch & O'Connor should have been on with 30mins to go. We should have thrown the kitchen sink at them and left Hartley to help clear up at the back.

I agree changes need to be made from top to bottom.

What do we expect by now but?! :boo hoo:

should have been on from the start, miller should have scored at least once. how that man makes a living as a striker for the OF and championship/premiership I will never know.

[the_ginger_hibee]

Yes i agree,and start from the guys in suits? its jobs for the boys,and its about time all the free loaders were emptied.scottish football is rotten to the core,its not what you know,its who you know.:agree:

Exactly... Burleys hopeless but the SFA are ****less wage thieves

[davym7062]

Forgotten the Norway game already?

Skipping the fact he's alienated our best natural goalscorer not to mention 3 others? (whether you agree or not)

Poor campaign, poorly managed overall.

We need someone with more presence and experience.

Burley Out.

that was caldwells fault. we were the better team till he got sent off.

i'm sure if boyd picked up the dummy he spat out he might get picked again.

burley stay:greengrin

[Gerrintaethem]

Just out of interest, those who say "he canny pick a squad", who would you have picked ?

[Sylar]

I stand by my sentiments that we need a change at the helm, but I do feel sorry for the way this journo leech is hounding Burley!

[18Craig75]

should have been on from the start, miller should have scored at least once. how that man makes a living as a striker for the OF and championship/premiership I will never know.

Thats what I thought. Looking back but, maybe keeping it tight for the first half at least was the way to go. The longer the game went on, the more it seemed we were content to play for a draw :confused::confused:. Even at 1-1, still no Fletcher. McManus should have been up top trying to salvage something!

I don't even think its 'glorious failure' this time. If you play like we've played & miss the chances we've missed, then you don't deserve to be anywhere near the WC!

[Hanny]

that was caldwells fault. we were the better team till he got sent off.

i'm sure if boyd picked up the dummy he spat out he might get picked again.

burley stay:greengrin

Who picked Caldwell? :wink: :greengrin

Boyd won't play again under Burley and we can't afford to have players who can score goals unavailable.

Glorious Failures are no longer good enough to stay in the job.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Who picked Caldwell? :wink: :greengrin


Vogts, Smith, McLeish and Burley have all picked Caldwell.

[Hanny]

Vogts, Smith, McLeish and Burley have all picked Caldwell.

So have Mowbray and Strachan.

[marinello59]

Scotland's problems are far deeper than can be sorted out by any Manager. Scottish football in general is ailing badly and has been for years.

Sadly true. :boo hoo:

[Sylar]

Absolutely condemning comments from Charlie Nicholas and they're 100% spot on!

[18Craig75]

Absolutely condemning comments from Charlie Nicholas and they're 100% spot on!

What did he say?

[johnbc70]

We cannot keep chopping and changing - keep him for the next campaign for consistency reasons. It was clear tonight and on Saturday he has the support of the players as you could not accuse them of not being 'up for it'.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Absolutely condemning comments from Charlie Nicholas and they're 100% spot on!

He's just said Burley should stay but he agrees that Miller's *****e.

[Sylar]

I meant his criticism of the overall SFA heirarchy and lack of growing talent within Scotland, and that we're at risk of dropping into a footballing backwater. Slammed George Peat and the blazers, stating that they have to accept the blame for failing to provide support for Burley.

[ronaldo7]

Here we go again.

Burley has had no help from the Weegie *******s since he came into the job.

Boyd, Ferguson, and McGregor have done him up like a kipper and will be giving it large to all their mates in the weegie press in the next few days.

He should have been, and still be given help in the job to enable us to make the next Championships.

Maybe he should spend some time down at East Mains:wink:

[Hiber-nation]

Could any manager qualify for a major finals with these strikers? Very doubtful.

Burley's made mistakes but what can he do about Miller & co missing all these one-on-ones?

[Danderhall Hibs]

Burley's made mistakes but what can he do about Miller & co missing all these one-on-ones?

Not pick him?

[chrisski33]

dont think it will make much difference if burley goes think the whole set up is rank and the players aint as good as the nation think they are! cant see scotland getting to a major championship for a long time now!

personally id have the team meeting up more often and getting them playing together more and have someone like craig levein in place. i dont wanna mention yogi as think he needs to be here!

[jdships]

Scotland's problems are far deeper than can be sorted out by any Manager. Scottish football in general is ailing badly and has been for years.

Sadly, I have to agree 100% with what you say .:top marks
It's easy to blame Burley , or any manager for that matter , but when you look at what the poor sod had to work with - well !!!!!!!!!

I was talking to a member of "Murray Park" coaching staff last week
He told me that it is becoming more and more difficult to get schoolboys to sign for the OF because they know so few will ever get a chance to "make it"
He went on to say many lads who being "died in the wool" OF supporters would rather play junior football than sign for a non OF side.
Therefore ,in his opinion, quite a fair number of youngsters are missing out and being lost to senior football.
As I say this is one man's opinion !

:rolleyes:

[down the slope]

Calum Davidson, Chris Commons Neil Alexander-need i go on ?.

[Greenblood70]

I think there's the nucleus of a decent side with five or six of the younger players we have, I don't think things are quite as bleak as Nicholas painted them tbh. We really need some of the younger strikers and Centre Halfs to kick on tho, it's those key positions we seem at our weakest. Hutton and Whitty are good attacking full backs. Brown and Fletcher are decent players in midfield and dare I say it I think a fit Kevin Thompson could take over the holding role from Hartley. I still think if O'Connor could get a run in the team at his club he'd be useful for us with his strength and directness. McFadden is always a box of tricks and Gordon is an excellant keeper. I still hold out some hope that FLetch will blossom into a real gem.

I have some sympathy for Burley...he's been hung out to dry this campaign imo by the spineless blazers and total sockets like Boyd, Fergushun, and the easily led McGregor. Unfortunately for him he's also made some strange selections and subs..and the performances against Macedonia away andNorway home and away were well below par. I didn't understand him bringing on Commons tonight either. I think we need a change but I'm not a huge Strachan fan and I don't think the SFA would risk bringing in someone who can be as outspoken as Levein. There's no hugely obvious candidate imo.

[woodythehibee]

Calum Davidson, Chris Commons Neil Alexander-need i go on ?.

Commons looks decent, Alexander is a good keeper...

out of interest who would you call up instead? the only player that never got a call up that probably should have IMO is deeks

[CentreLine]

I say get off Burley's back. Scotland were brilliant tonight and there is a lot more where that came from. He is trying to make a silk purse from a sow's ear and not making too bad a fist of it. He is also trying to get away from the crap we have played for the past 10 years or so. What exactly did Saint Walter achieve circling the wagons and playing hoofball. We have come a long way since Berti and Burley will take us a lot further given time. As for the arse Boyd, he should worry about whether he plays for Scotland again or not if and when he is picked. It is time the tail stopped wagging the dog in the Scotland squads and Burley has made a very good start alienating Boyd, Ferguson and that second rate goalie bloke who thinks he is something special
C'mon Scotland. Euro Championships 2012 up next !!!!

[PISTOL1875]

Commons looks decent, Alexander is a good keeper...

out of interest who would you call up instead? the only player that never got a call up that probably should have IMO is deeks

What about Lee Wallace ???

[Sylar]

Here we go again.

Burley has had no help from the Weegie *******s since he came into the job.

Boyd, Ferguson, and McGregor have done him up like a kipper and will be giving it large to all their mates in the weegie press in the next few days.

He should have been, and still be given help in the job to enable us to make the next Championships.

Maybe he should spend some time down at East Mains:wink:

Marshall - ex Celtic

Hutton - ex-Rangers
Weir - Rangers
McManus - Celtic
Whittaker - Rangers

Maloney - Celtic
Hartley - ex Celtic
Fletcher - exception (Man Utd)
Brown - Celtic
Naismith - Rangers

Miller - Rangers

Ergo, I don't understand your point.

[clerriehibs]

Sadly, I have to agree 100% with what you say .:top marks
It's easy to blame Burley , or any manager for that matter , but when you look at what the poor sod had to work with - well !!!!!!!!!

I was talking to a member of "Murray Park" coaching staff last week
He told me that it is becoming more and more difficult to get schoolboys to sign for the OF because they know so few will ever get a chance to "make it"
He went on to say many lads who being "died in the wool" OF supporters would rather play junior football than sign for a non OF side.
Therefore ,in his opinion, quite a fair number of youngsters are missing out and being lost to senior football.
As I say this is one man's opinion !

:rolleyes:

Sounds like blinkered, weejie ******-speak to me.

[Alicky Ranks]

Time to go methinks.

[HibbyAndy]

And replace him with?....

[Dashing Bob S]

Scotland's problems are far deeper than can be sorted out by any Manager. Scottish football in general is ailing badly and has been for years.

By far the most sensible post on the subject. It wasn't Argentina 1978 that caused Scotland's footballing fall from grace, but you can basically draw a line sloping downwards towards inexorable decline from that point.

Our coaching at youth level is poor compared to continental countries of a similar size, and our club system of player development stinks. (With a few notable exceptions of which Hibs are one.) Don't even get me started about our administrators.

I'd much rather that people who professed to care about the Scottish National team put their energies into changing the game at youth, administrative and club levels, rather than turn into slavering headbangers in see-you-Jimmy wigs, ranting positively about any excuse for a team, before sinking into the usual depression followed by bitterness and recrimination when it all inevitably goes breasts skywards.

[ronaldo7]

Marshall - ex Celtic

Hutton - ex-Rangers
Weir - Rangers
McManus - Celtic
Whittaker - Rangers

Maloney - Celtic
Hartley - ex Celtic
Fletcher - exception (Man Utd)
Brown - Celtic
Naismith - Rangers

Miller - Rangers

Ergo, I don't understand your point.

Sorry,

I meant the press:grr:

Any names spring to mind:dunno:

[CentreLine]

No, not in my opinion. There are not too many decent managers out there willing to take on the job but Burley is and he is a proven good manager

[ronaldo7]

Marshall - ex Celtic or Cardiff

Hutton - ex-Rangers or Spurs
Weir - Rangers or Hearts
McManus - Celtic
Whittaker - Rangers or Hibs

Maloney - Celtic or Aston Villa
Hartley - ex Celtic or Hearts
Fletcher - exception (Man Utd)
Brown - Celtic or Hibs
Naismith - Rangers or Killie

Miller - Rangers or lots of teams

Ergo, I don't understand your point. :wink:

[CentreLine]

By far the most sensible post on the subject. It wasn't Argentina 1978 that caused Scotland's footballing fall from grace, but you can basically draw a line sloping downwards towards inexorable decline from that point.

Our coaching at youth level is poor compared to continental countries of a similar size, and our club system of player development stinks. (With a few notable exceptions of which Hibs are one.) Don't even get me started about our administrators.

I'd much rather that people who professed to care about the Scottish National team put their energies into changing the game at youth, administrative and club levels, rather than turn into slavering headbangers in see-you-Jimmy wigs, ranting positively about any excuse for a team, before sinking into the usual depression followed by bitterness and recrimination when it all inevitably goes breasts skywards.

The rot set in when Westminster decided that it was polutically dangerous to allow the Scotland v England fixture to continue and used football violence as an excuse to bin it. Beating England was what drove Scottish football on and the sooner we see the fixture resumed the better for the game n this country.

[Glasgow Hibee]

Don't see much reason to get rid of him as no replacement jumps out as better. Yes he has made mistakes, but we played better tonight than in a long time.

[500miles]

I'll repeat what I said earlier, as I posted it on the wrong thread really.....

Aye, it's George Burley's fault.

It's Burley's fault that a technically inferior team matched up to one of the best in the world for 90 minutes. It's George Burley's fault I just witnessed Scotland play some of the best football I have seen from then in the last 10 years. I would pay to watch that, and it certainly was no embarrassment.

We passed the ball at times in a way that you would be looking at Holland to. Pride, that's what you can take from tonight. Charlie Nicholas doesn't think we have the quality - but our passing was excellent, our movement was excellent, we were dangerous, and apart from Weir's lapse, we were defensively solid.

What changes should Scotland have made? O'Connor on earlier? Perhaps, although we were making chances right until they scored and he was introduced. Fletcher on? Maloney, Naismith and Miller were always getting into good positions and making chances. Naismith was unlucky have hit the post, it was a great save to stop the rebound. Miller was unlucky with another chance too, and was unfortunate to crack the crossbar. Brown was just an inch away from scoring too. We were unfortunate to have a goal chopped off, which, if it was offside, was marginal. We should have had a penalty as well. We were unfortunate all night long.

George Burley has us playing a brand of football I enjoy watching. Walter Smith didnt do that. Souness wouldn't do that. He's had injuries and suspensions. He's had a badly planned fixture schedule. He's had Boyd, the most prolific Scottish stiker available, turn his back on the team, he's had his captain and back up keeper force his hand. He's had stupid decisions from experienced players - Caldwell and Weir most recently. He's had the people above him stab him in the back. He's had a raging Glaswegian press, who's noses are so far up (thier hun hero) Souness' brass eye, that they started with the "Does Burley have the credentials?" chat before he was even appointed! That same press that could never wait to hammer him and his players.

Fans may well judge Burley to have made some poor decisions - but look at the manager's position. George Burley believes that football should be played in a certain way. Tony Mowbray, our greatest manager for 25 years, shaped his ideology on his time working with Burley. If we stick with George Burley we may well be looking at a team we can take pride in for, not only giving 100% when they're up against it, but take pride in the kind of football they play. It will take time to change.

Either that, or we start the managerial merry go round all over again.

[clerriehibs]

The rot set in when Westminster decided that it was polutically dangerous to allow the Scotland v England fixture to continue and used football violence as an excuse to bin it. Beating England was what drove Scottish football on and the sooner we see the fixture resumed the better for the game n this country.

??? Surely what should be driving football on in this country is the possibility of playing at major finals? If all we're interested in as winning a game against our nearest and dearest that ultimately means nothing, then we really should be thinking about packing it all in.

[Mag7]

Don't see much reason to get rid of him as no replacement jumps out as better. Yes he has made mistakes, but we played better tonight than in a long time.

He has pretty much single handedly undone the work Smith and McLeish put in to at least make Scotland respectable again after the Vogts debacle. Granted they never qualified for tournaments under those two either, but some of the performances under Burley have been embarrassing and should not be masked by an all too predictable fighting display tonight against a team which qualified months ago.

[Kaiser_Sauzee]

Time to go methinks.

No. Give him another campaign. I've seen enough in the last 2 games that he's got what it takes. Doesn't pander to the OF either.

Burley to stay.

[marinello59]

The rot set in when Westminster decided that it was polutically dangerous to allow the Scotland v England fixture to continue and used football violence as an excuse to bin it. Beating England was what drove Scottish football on and the sooner we see the fixture resumed the better for the game n this country.

I think the fixture died when England decided that they could get along quite nicely financially without the other home nations. Nothing to do with Westminster.

[Alicky Ranks]

I'll repeat what I said earlier, as I posted it on the wrong thread really.....

Aye, it's George Burley's fault.

It's Burley's fault that a technically inferior team matched up to one of the best in the world for 90 minutes. It's George Burley's fault I just witnessed Scotland play some of the best football I have seen from then in the last 10 years. I would pay to watch that, and it certainly was no embarrassment.

We passed the ball at times in a way that you would be looking at Holland to. Pride, that's what you can take from tonight. Charlie Nicholas doesn't think we have the quality - but our passing was excellent, our movement was excellent, we were dangerous, and apart from Weir's lapse, we were defensively solid.

What changes should Scotland have made? O'Connor on earlier? Perhaps, although we were making chances right until they scored and he was introduced. Fletcher on? Maloney, Naismith and Miller were always getting into good positions and making chances. Naismith was unlucky have hit the post, it was a great save to stop the rebound. Miller was unlucky with another chance too, and was unfortunate to crack the crossbar. Brown was just an inch away from scoring too. We were unfortunate to have a goal chopped off, which, if it was offside, was marginal. We should have had a penalty as well. We were unfortunate all night long.

George Burley has us playing a brand of football I enjoy watching. Walter Smith didnt do that. Souness wouldn't do that. He's had injuries and suspensions. He's had a badly planned fixture schedule. He's had Boyd, the most prolific Scottish stiker available, turn his back on the team, he's had his captain and back up keeper force his hand. He's had stupid decisions from experienced players - Caldwell and Weir most recently. He's had the people above him stab him in the back. He's had a raging Glaswegian press, who's noses are so far up (thier hun hero) Souness' brass eye, that they started with the "Does Burley have the credentials?" chat before he was even appointed! That same press that could never wait to hammer him and his players.

Fans may well judge Burley to have made some poor decisions - but look at the manager's position. George Burley believes that football should be played in a certain way. Tony Mowbray, our greatest manager for 25 years, shaped his ideology on his time working with Burley. If we stick with George Burley we may well be looking at a team we can take pride in for, not only giving 100% when they're up against it, but take pride in the kind of football they play. It will take time to change.

Either that, or we start the managerial merry go round all over again.

That sums up far too many Scotland fans. Happy to see the team play with a bit of pride now and again. They did not 'match up' to Holland. They were allowed to play a bit because the Dutch didn't need a result. And yet it still wasn't good enough. Beats me how folk can claim Burley is a good manager and has Scotland playing good football if they watched the defeat in Norway. THAT was a far more important test of Burley's managerial ability than a game that was never likely to matter. And he failed it dismally.

[marinello59]

He has pretty much single handedly undone the work Smith and McLeish put in to at least make Scotland respectable again after the Vogts debacle. Granted they never qualified for tournaments under those two either, but some of the performances under Burley have been embarrassing and should not be masked by an all too predictable fighting display tonight against a team which qualified months ago.

Smith and Mcleish couldn't really go wrong after Vogts departed. A couple of freak wins against France aside, what did they do that what so much better than Burley? They were all hampered by the same problems, a dearth of talent and an incompetent layer of freeloaders above them.

[ancient hibee]

Thats what I thought. Looking back but, maybe keeping it tight for the first half at least was the way to go. The longer the game went on, the more it seemed we were content to play for a draw :confused::confused:. Even at 1-1, still no Fletcher. McManus should have been up top trying to salvage something!

I don't even think its 'glorious failure' this time. If you play like we've played & miss the chances we've missed, then you don't deserve to be anywhere near the WC!

I know all you young guys know far more about tactics than us oldies or indeed football professionals but tell me what game were you watching?"Even at 1-1"?When was it 1-1?

[Lewis77]

JUST HEARD HE WANTS TO STAY !!!!! HE MUST GO NOW !!!!:grr:

[500miles]

That sums up far too many Scotland fans. Happy to see the team play with a bit of pride now and again. They did not 'match up' to Holland. They were allowed to play a bit because the Dutch didn't need a result. And yet it still wasn't good enough. Beats me how folk can claim Burley is a good manager and has Scotland playing good football if they watched the defeat in Norway. THAT was a far more important test of Burley's managerial ability than a game that was never likely to matter. And he failed it dismally.

Dutch players were diving and hacking. You don't get to be a top class player like those in orange because you are happy to rest on your laurels. There was nothing half hearted about the Dutch today.

[Richard Scott]

I suppose it depends. When he took over, was he given a minimum requirement by the SFA? Qualification? If that WAS his target, then I can't see the SFA holding back.

[Betty Boop]

Strachan for Scotland! :duck:

[dalkeith stu]

I don't rate Burley but you cant blame him.
Was it his fault for -

Bad refereeing in Macedonia
Iwelumo's miss against Norway
Caldwell getting sent off against Norway
Miller and Weir being **** tonight

Also the weedgie press have it in for him due to the Boyd, Ferguson and McGregor situations.

[iwasthere1972]

On the strength of what I have seen over the last two games I have voted no.

With a little bit luck and more clinical finishing we could have beaten Holland tonight. It wasn't until Hartley was replaced by Commons, in a bid to win the match, that Holland took their chance. Even then we could have snatched a draw if the finishing was better.

George Burley has gone up in my estimation in the past week and I would say keep him in the job. A year is a short time in football and I feel that we can be a much better unit when the Euro 2012 campaign kicks off.

Oh - and I only had three pints before anyone asks. :wink:

On a sidenote - Charlie Nicholas you are a fud. 5 goals for Scotland in a glittering career :bitchy: and sitting in a comfy studio giving it what for when you know your job is safe. Prove how good you are and get a job in management otherwise shut up. :agree:

[Ringothedog]

i have voted no even although he is an ex yam manager. He is the best person for the job.The problem we have is not the managers it is just our players are crap!!

[woody47]

Time to go methinks.

Should never have been in charge from the start. A total waste of fresh air.

[jgl07]

Forgotten the Norway game already?

Skipping the fact he's alienated our best natural goalscorer not to mention 3 others? (whether you agree or not)

Did he offend Riordan then?

[Godsahibby]

To all the Burley out voters, who exactly are you bringing in to replace him?, would you seriously want that wee ginger prick or tango man anywhere near a scotland team!

[RigRoars]

Levein,if he would take the job.

[Glasgow Hibee]

I'll repeat what I said earlier, as I posted it on the wrong thread really.....

Aye, it's George Burley's fault.

It's Burley's fault that a technically inferior team matched up to one of the best in the world for 90 minutes. It's George Burley's fault I just witnessed Scotland play some of the best football I have seen from then in the last 10 years. I would pay to watch that, and it certainly was no embarrassment.

We passed the ball at times in a way that you would be looking at Holland to. Pride, that's what you can take from tonight. Charlie Nicholas doesn't think we have the quality - but our passing was excellent, our movement was excellent, we were dangerous, and apart from Weir's lapse, we were defensively solid.

What changes should Scotland have made? O'Connor on earlier? Perhaps, although we were making chances right until they scored and he was introduced. Fletcher on? Maloney, Naismith and Miller were always getting into good positions and making chances. Naismith was unlucky have hit the post, it was a great save to stop the rebound. Miller was unlucky with another chance too, and was unfortunate to crack the crossbar. Brown was just an inch away from scoring too. We were unfortunate to have a goal chopped off, which, if it was offside, was marginal. We should have had a penalty as well. We were unfortunate all night long.

George Burley has us playing a brand of football I enjoy watching. Walter Smith didnt do that. Souness wouldn't do that. He's had injuries and suspensions. He's had a badly planned fixture schedule. He's had Boyd, the most prolific Scottish stiker available, turn his back on the team, he's had his captain and back up keeper force his hand. He's had stupid decisions from experienced players - Caldwell and Weir most recently. He's had the people above him stab him in the back. He's had a raging Glaswegian press, who's noses are so far up (thier hun hero) Souness' brass eye, that they started with the "Does Burley have the credentials?" chat before he was even appointed! That same press that could never wait to hammer him and his players.

Fans may well judge Burley to have made some poor decisions - but look at the manager's position. George Burley believes that football should be played in a certain way. Tony Mowbray, our greatest manager for 25 years, shaped his ideology on his time working with Burley. If we stick with George Burley we may well be looking at a team we can take pride in for, not only giving 100% when they're up against it, but take pride in the kind of football they play. It will take time to change.

Either that, or we start the managerial merry go round all over again.

Excellent post - said all the things I want to but can't be bothered typing.

Keep it up:greengrin

[LALthehibeeGAL]

I'll repeat what I said earlier, as I posted it on the wrong thread really.....

Aye, it's George Burley's fault.

It's Burley's fault that a technically inferior team matched up to one of the best in the world for 90 minutes. It's George Burley's fault I just witnessed Scotland play some of the best football I have seen from then in the last 10 years. I would pay to watch that, and it certainly was no embarrassment.

We passed the ball at times in a way that you would be looking at Holland to. Pride, that's what you can take from tonight. Charlie Nicholas doesn't think we have the quality - but our passing was excellent, our movement was excellent, we were dangerous, and apart from Weir's lapse, we were defensively solid.

What changes should Scotland have made? O'Connor on earlier? Perhaps, although we were making chances right until they scored and he was introduced. Fletcher on? Maloney, Naismith and Miller were always getting into good positions and making chances. Naismith was unlucky have hit the post, it was a great save to stop the rebound. Miller was unlucky with another chance too, and was unfortunate to crack the crossbar. Brown was just an inch away from scoring too. We were unfortunate to have a goal chopped off, which, if it was offside, was marginal. We should have had a penalty as well. We were unfortunate all night long.

George Burley has us playing a brand of football I enjoy watching. Walter Smith didnt do that. Souness wouldn't do that. He's had injuries and suspensions. He's had a badly planned fixture schedule. He's had Boyd, the most prolific Scottish stiker available, turn his back on the team, he's had his captain and back up keeper force his hand. He's had stupid decisions from experienced players - Caldwell and Weir most recently. He's had the people above him stab him in the back. He's had a raging Glaswegian press, who's noses are so far up (thier hun hero) Souness' brass eye, that they started with the "Does Burley have the credentials?" chat before he was even appointed! That same press that could never wait to hammer him and his players.

Fans may well judge Burley to have made some poor decisions - but look at the manager's position. George Burley believes that football should be played in a certain way. Tony Mowbray, our greatest manager for 25 years, shaped his ideology on his time working with Burley. If we stick with George Burley we may well be looking at a team we can take pride in for, not only giving 100% when they're up against it, but take pride in the kind of football they play. It will take time to change.

Either that, or we start the managerial merry go round all over again.


:top marks:agree::agree:

well said :agree:

[Big Frank]

I'll repeat what I said earlier, as I posted it on the wrong thread really.....

Aye, it's George Burley's fault.

Though its not entirely his fault, he must shoulder some of the blame for a gash campaign.

It's Burley's fault that a technically inferior team matched up to one of the best in the world for 90 minutes. It's George Burley's fault I just witnessed Scotland play some of the best football I have seen from then in the last 10 years. I would pay t o watch that, and it certainly was no embarrassment.

That squad owe their fans fans after the debacle two games ago. The LEAST they should have given is tonights performance. (To be brutally honest the Dutch ran the second half, and burleys substitutions killed any chance we had). Wouldn't honestly have said some of the best fotball in 10years, but each to their own.

We passed the ball at times in a way that you would be looking at Holland to. Pride, that's what you can take from tonight. Charlie Nicholas doesn't think we have the quality - but our passing was excellent, our movement was excellent, we were dangerous, and apart from Weir's lapse, we were defensively solid.

We passed the ball is all I can really see your saying here. At international level, we shouldn't be getting excited about fundamentals.

What changes should Scotland have made? O'Connor on earlier? PerhapsN

Changes should have been made around the 60minute mark. Hartley being swapped for commons was ridic, I feel that I have watched Kenny Miller have chance after chance in international football for what seems like an eternity, and he never comes good when it matters.

, although we were making chances right until they scored and he was introduced. Fletcher on? Maloney, Naismith and Miller were always getting into good positions and making chances. Naismith was unlucky have hit the post,keeper should have held that



it was a great save to stop the rebound. Miller was unlucky with another chance too
I surmise that you mean the one he shot directly at the keeper (who spilled it) Not unlucky in my book - shan goalkeeping.


, and was unfortunate to crack the crossbar.

Playing the odds, With millers misses over and over again over the years, I reckon it was more luck than anything else!

Brown was just an inch away from scoring too. We were unfortunate to have a goal chopped off, which, if it was offside, was marginal. We should have had a penalty as well. We were unfortunate all night long.

Not for me.

Tartan specs on.


George Burley has us playing a brand of football I enjoy watching.

Really. You enjoyed both games against Norway for example....

Walter Smith didnt do that.

Whether we like it or not he has been the best thing for Scotland in many a year. Alas he turned his back on Scotland for the Hun. Internationally, Burley could'nt lace Smiths boots.

Souness wouldn't do that.

You don't know that! If for example Souness was the next Scotland manager, could you tell me a manager in the last 30years for Scotland who attained his level at playing?

He's had injuries and suspensions. He's had a badly planned fixture schedule. He's had Boyd, the most prolific Scottish stiker available, turn his back on the team, he's had his captain and back up keeper force his hand.

Every manager deals with injuries and suspensions, and no-one would get on a Burley for that. The planned fixtures doesn't wash as they are no excuse for crap call-ups (the caldwell brothes FFS!!), and crap performances.


He's had stupid decisions from experienced players - Caldwell and Weir most recently. He's had the people above him stab him in the back.

Nobody above him stabbed him in the back


He's had a raging Glaswegian press, who's noses are so far up (thier hun hero) Souness' brass eye, that they started with the "Does Burley have the credentials?" chat before he was even appointed! That same press that could never wait to hammer him and his players.

Moot

Fans may well judge Burley to have made some poor decisions - but look at the manager's position. George Burley believes that football should be played in a certain way. Tony Mowbray, our greatest manager for 25 years, shaped his ideology on his time working with Burley. If we stick with George Burley we may well be looking at a team we can take pride in for, not only giving 100% when they're up against it, but take pride in the kind of football they play. It will take time to change.

Either that, or we start the managerial merry go round all over again.

Lets start the managerial merry go round. If we are to be taken seriously, then he must go! It mustn't be seen as acceptable to perform so poorly overall in a qualifying group.

Burly out for me.

We are really lucky - we have a great keeper in Craig Gordon. We have a superb right back in Hutton. We have 2 great midfielders in Brown and Fletcher and a great attacker in Faddy. We need a new broom in, who will build a team round these players.

The SFA need to break the bank and employ a world class name, someone from outside who doesn't give a toss about the west coast, or upsetting blazers, stop playing mediocre players just because they play in england 2nd divisions etc. etc etc

[Big Frank]

To all the Burley out voters, who exactly are you bringing in to replace him?, would you seriously want that wee ginger prick or tango man anywhere near a scotland team!

Yeah, your right, Burley must stay becasue there is only Gordon Strachan and tango man who could succeed him:bye:

[ScottB]

No I think he should stay, and here's why...

Burley has brought in new tactics and a new system, its taken awhile to bed in but the last 2 matches have been great performances. We could easily have scored a few goals tonight and this was against a real top drawer side, not an aged and fading France.

He has, from the outset had to deal with a hostile media, arrogant, lazy senior players who'd rather drink or throw tantrums than play for their country and an utterly incompitant SFA, their fixture arranging and unwillingness to pay a few grand to avoid playing Macedonia in 40 degree heat coupled with Peat's utterly unprofessional comments in the last week given Burley an almost unworkable atmosphere. In a week where the media and his bosses seemed to be lining him up for the chop the players rallied and put in 2 great performances.

If he does go (and I think Peat and the Weegie media will ensure that) who exactly gets the job? The leading Scots managers (Ferguson and Moyes) are non starters. Levein would be good, but again he is unlikely. Anyone who thinks Souness is the answer needs their head examined; sure, lets hire the head of the Gers oldboy network who hasnt been near the managers seat of anything in years and failed miserably everywhere he hasnt had a blank chequebook and zero competition.

So if he does go, we have to look abroad, which is no bad thing, Capello shows it can work, if the SFA are willing to pay for their man.

Which they aren't, of course.

[Godsahibby]

Yeah, your right, Burley must stay becasue there is only Gordon Strachan and tango man who could succeed him:bye:

Well who else would you want ?

[Scooter]

I feel really really sorry for burley I would like him to stay. I blame 2 people but one still (I believe) has a major infulence, they would be macgregor and ferguson and I bet the latter is still at it. People were on a phoning tonight about wanting someone strong to kick butt and that's whatvburkey has done

[Sergio sledge]

I hope the SFA are brave, I hope they stick with Burley. Despite him being ex hearts, and despite the seemingly shambolic nature of a large portion of this campain, I think he is a good manager, and I think the last couple of games have shown that we are improving, and the players are starting to take on board what he has been trying to do. And what was that? He's been trying to get us to play football, none of this anti football rubbish that we have seen under virtually every Scotland manager since, and including, paw broon.

I'd much rather see us fail to qualify by trying to play football than fail to qualify by playing anti football like we did under uncle walter and gjp. (I can't believe some people in the press are seriously suggesting we try to get uncle walter back... Have they forgotten how he left us in the lurch right in the middle of a qualifying campain?) who else is there really? Strachan? Give me a break... Levein? Have we all forgotten his famous 9-1-1 formations at hearts?

Give burley another qualifying shot, and see what he does with his skilful, ball playing players, like maloney, fletcher, McCormack, commons, Naismith and Whittaker, now that he has got shot of huddies like mcculloch, ferguson, and Boyd, and now that he seems to have gained the confidence and respect of the squad.

I hope he stays, I like him, I like the football he wants the team to play, I like the performances in the last two games, and I like the fact he doesn't seem scared to pick players who can do something different, which the previous managers didn't do, with mcfadden The obvious exception.

[Hainan Hibs]

The people at the SFA such as Gordon Smith should be the first to go. Everything is run wrong in Scotland, no quality is produced, the facilities for youngsters is substandard, football here is going backwards and the SFA are doing the square root of **** all about it while picking up big wages.

As Ronald De Boer said on Sky, the way we handle youth is wrong. We have to stop turning 10 year olds away because they are not big enough. Size has nothing to do with it, look at Messi, Maradonna in the past.

The SFA blazers have got to go for doing NOTHING to stop the rot of football here.

Burley? Some decisions have been made which were wrong, also let down by players such as Iwelumo and Miller for schoolboy misses, who do we replace Burley with? The problems for me are with the SFA, and in my drunk state I'd keep Burley for another Campaign.

[TheEastTerrace]

Can I ask those who are desperate for Burley to leave who exactly should come in and who would do much better with the playing quality at his disposal??

The sooner people wake up and realise that Scotland simply do not produce players who are technically on a par with the likes of Holland the better we will all will be. Scottish football needs a complete shake up from top to bottom. Tell me this, would players from Holland, France, Italy, etc go out on the razzle between important internationals as Scotland's players did at Cameron House? Would they hell. These players are athletes, yer Scottish players are seen out on the piss and doing damage to their bodies. WTF do people expect?

[ScottB]

We have the nucleus of a strong side, and finally greater numbers of good young players coming through. I believe we are coming out of the worst effects of the 90's obsession with foreign players.

We have Gordon, Hutton, Brown, both Fletchers and McFadden all capable of playing at very high levels. Then Whittaker, Naismith (who was excellent tonight) O'Connor, Maloney etc are all good players too. The potential is there for sure for me.

Is booting Burley the answer? Not convinced, unless a really good candidate can be found (Anyone who says Souness, ****** off right now!) but lets face it, as long as the current mob are running the SFA they aint gonna pay for that sort of guy, or put up with the reform required or going against the Old Firm and Weegie media.

The most important thing for Scottish football in the coming years is to break the drinking culture, gets players to behave like athletes and hopefully the fans will stop defending and glorifying such activities.

[MountcastleHibs]

I'll repeat what I said earlier, as I posted it on the wrong thread really.....

Aye, it's George Burley's fault.

It's Burley's fault that a technically inferior team matched up to one of the best in the world for 90 minutes. It's George Burley's fault I just witnessed Scotland play some of the best football I have seen from then in the last 10 years. I would pay to watch that, and it certainly was no embarrassment.

We passed the ball at times in a way that you would be looking at Holland to. Pride, that's what you can take from tonight. Charlie Nicholas doesn't think we have the quality - but our passing was excellent, our movement was excellent, we were dangerous, and apart from Weir's lapse, we were defensively solid.

What changes should Scotland have made? O'Connor on earlier? Perhaps, although we were making chances right until they scored and he was introduced. Fletcher on? Maloney, Naismith and Miller were always getting into good positions and making chances. Naismith was unlucky have hit the post, it was a great save to stop the rebound. Miller was unlucky with another chance too, and was unfortunate to crack the crossbar. Brown was just an inch away from scoring too. We were unfortunate to have a goal chopped off, which, if it was offside, was marginal. We should have had a penalty as well. We were unfortunate all night long.

George Burley has us playing a brand of football I enjoy watching. Walter Smith didnt do that. Souness wouldn't do that. He's had injuries and suspensions. He's had a badly planned fixture schedule. He's had Boyd, the most prolific Scottish stiker available, turn his back on the team, he's had his captain and back up keeper force his hand. He's had stupid decisions from experienced players - Caldwell and Weir most recently. He's had the people above him stab him in the back. He's had a raging Glaswegian press, who's noses are so far up (thier hun hero) Souness' brass eye, that they started with the "Does Burley have the credentials?" chat before he was even appointed! That same press that could never wait to hammer him and his players.

Fans may well judge Burley to have made some poor decisions - but look at the manager's position. George Burley believes that football should be played in a certain way. Tony Mowbray, our greatest manager for 25 years, shaped his ideology on his time working with Burley. If we stick with George Burley we may well be looking at a team we can take pride in for, not only giving 100% when they're up against it, but take pride in the kind of football they play. It will take time to change.

Either that, or we start the managerial merry go round all over again.

:top marks Totally agree.

I voted for Burley to stay. As I've said on the thread I started, I firmly believe the blame for Scotland's failure this campaign is not all Burley's.. Peat, Smith and the rest of the SFA must shoulder some responsibilty here.

We, as a nation, need to change our approach to football, but that is for a different thread.

Certain players done there best to upset Burley and Scotland for this qualifying campaign, and to a certain extent, they have succeeded. But with those players gone from the set up, Scotland have been better and pulled together like a team. I would like to see what could happen with a full campaign with this team (minus a few of the senior players and younger players in) could do.

For now, Burley stays :agree:

[The_Todd]

Scotland's problems are far deeper than can be sorted out by any Manager. Scottish football in general is ailing badly and has been for years.

Indeed, Jose "The Special One" would have struggled to get Scotland qualified.

Things need to change across the board and blaming Burley would be just making him the scapegoat. Real radical changes need to be made, but they won't because the current setup of Scottish football suits Rantic quite nicely, thank you very much.

[bighairyfaeleith]

Why has no one spotted the solution to the problem here???

We struggled to get goals in this campaign????


Give the job to shabba, now he can spot strikers!!!!! :greengrin

[J-C]

I think Burley's problem has been the fact that he's stuck by guys who are obviously no good or past it, Caldwell. Alexander,McManus, jezz even bringing back Davidson.

Apart from missing McFadden last night I thought the team was better balanced but the lack of a natural scorer was plainly evident.

Why has Burley continually overlooked Hibs players, apart from Fletcher who's just moved. In Riordan we have a player similar to McFadden, who can create a chance out of nothing. Murray has played tremendously well since coming back and was one of the most consistent players in the SPL last year, yet gets overlooked every squad. :confused:

[JoeT]

By far the most sensible post on the subject. It wasn't Argentina 1978 that caused Scotland's footballing fall from grace, but you can basically draw a line sloping downwards towards inexorable decline from that point.

Our coaching at youth level is poor compared to continental countries of a similar size, and our club system of player development stinks. (With a few notable exceptions of which Hibs are one.) Don't even get me started about our administrators.

I'd much rather that people who professed to care about the Scottish National team put their energies into changing the game at youth, administrative and club levels, rather than turn into slavering headbangers in see-you-Jimmy wigs, ranting positively about any excuse for a team, before sinking into the usual depression followed by bitterness and recrimination when it all inevitably goes breasts skywards.


Could it be that the current generation of retired players earned so much money that they no longer have to take on roles coaching kids? Or they invest what they have earned in other ways taking their interest away from football?

Seems that the coaches kicking about at kids level never really got further than 1st division football at best?

[Hibbyradge]

Kris Boyd, Barry Ferguson and Allan McGregor should shoulder a lot of the blame for our failure.

Not just Burley.

It looked like he had engendered a right good team spirit over the last 2 games. Rumours that he had lost the respect of the players were clearly wide of the mark.

I'd be happy for him to lead us into the Euro 2012 campaign.

If he is sacked, or resigns, then I guess Levein will be next up for the 2 year job.

[magnificent_seven]

YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES

YES


Get him to buggery, we can get a lot better. The players have lost faith in him too, its evident. Terrible campaign.

[RIP]

I'd keep the manager and replace Terry Butcher with Donald Park. Would get rid of a lot of the anglos and old Davie Weir. Here's my line-up...:greengrin

Coaches
Burley - ex-Hearts
Park - ex-Hibs

Team
Gordon - ex-Hearts

Whittaker - ex-Hibs
Wallace - Hearts
Murray - Hibs
Berra - ex-Hearts

Thomson - ex-Hibs
Hartley - ex-Hibs'n'Hearts
Brown - ex-Hibs
Fletcher - ex-Hibs

O'Connor - ex-Hibs
Miller - ex-Hibs

Supersub Riordan - Hibs

[Danderhall Hibs]

Supersub Riordan - ex-Hibs

:shocked: When's he leaving?

[Keith_M]

Seems that the coaches kicking about at kids level never really got further than 1st division football at best?

I was a coach at primary school level, only because we couldn't get anyone else to do it. Our county, Clackamannanshire, had a designated SFA schools coach who was actually some ex-Falkirk player. The whole season I coached, despite repeated promises, he never once turned up to training or even came to the school to meet me or the kids.

Maybe he was a one off, but it didn't exactly inspire me with confidence in the "grass roots" system.

[Woody1985]

I think he's got to go...bottled it tonight. I thought Fletch & O'Connor should have been on with 30mins to go. We should have thrown the kitchen sink at them and left Hartley to help clear up at the back.

I agree changes need to be made from top to bottom.

What do we expect by now but?! :boo hoo:

:faf:

That was one of the most attacking and confident Scotland teams I think I've seen in the first half.

We were trying to contain them at the start of the second half and the aim would have been to push on for the last half hour but we just couldn't get the rythm back after half time.

I thought that Hartley was subbed for Commons because he was ****ed?



should have been on from the start, miller should have scored at least once. how that man makes a living as a striker for the OF and championship/premiership I will never know.

I agree that Miller is a pish goalscorer. However, he did brilliantly at pushing up their back line and that gave us some space to play in the first half.

[crewetollhibee]

Bet you everyone who is screaming for Burley to go was also screaming for Scotland while the game was on ! What a performance; I know we got beat but that was more uplifting than the 2 wins over France in terms of ability, possession, chances and downright in-their-face arrogance. Yes, Burley has made mistakes but last night and Saturday's second half showed he is learning and growing into the job. International management is entirely different from any club role and just as he is starting to show a great improvement we want to get shot ? Any new appointment would have to adapt to the unique requirements of the job whereas Burley has now come through that particular bedding-in period. I dont want to say keep him just to avoid change; I genuinely believe he is the best bet to take us forward from here. We dont now have a competitive game for a year so let him use the lessons learned from this campaign to plan ahead and hit the ground running for the Euro Champs.

[Mag7]

To all the Burley out voters, who exactly are you bringing in to replace him?, would you seriously want that wee ginger prick or tango man anywhere near a scotland team!

The question of who should replace him is not the burning issue at present. That can be decided with a degree of deliberation as Scotland ain't going to be playing any big games for a long time. The most important thing right now is to clear the decks and that means getting rid of Burley asap.

[Part/Time Supporter]

All I'll say is that his subs last night were reminiscent of Mixu.

[Alicky Ranks]

Bet you everyone who is screaming for Burley to go was also screaming for Scotland while the game was on ! What a performance; I know we got beat but that was more uplifting than the 2 wins over France in terms of ability, possession, chances and downright in-their-face arrogance. Yes, Burley has made mistakes but last night and Saturday's second half showed he is learning and growing into the job. International management is entirely different from any club role and just as he is starting to show a great improvement we want to get shot ? Any new appointment would have to adapt to the unique requirements of the job whereas Burley has now come through that particular bedding-in period. I dont want to say keep him just to avoid change; I genuinely believe he is the best bet to take us forward from here. We dont now have a competitive game for a year so let him use the lessons learned from this campaign to plan ahead and hit the ground running for the Euro Champs.

Still got beat tho. A fighting performance maybe, but the damage was already done and Burley should carry the can.

[--------]

I think there's the nucleus of a decent side with five or six of the younger players we have, I don't think things are quite as bleak as Nicholas painted them tbh. We really need some of the younger strikers and Centre Halfs to kick on tho, it's those key positions we seem at our weakest. Hutton and Whitty are good attacking full backs. Brown and Fletcher are decent players in midfield and dare I say it I think a fit Kevin Thompson could take over the holding role from Hartley. I still think if O'Connor could get a run in the team at his club he'd be useful for us with his strength and directness. McFadden is always a box of tricks and Gordon is an excellant keeper. I still hold out some hope that FLetch will blossom into a real gem.

I have some sympathy for Burley...he's been hung out to dry this campaign imo by the spineless blazers and total sockets like Boyd, Fergushun, and the easily led McGregor. Unfortunately for him he's also made some strange selections and subs..and the performances against Macedonia away andNorway home and away were well below par. I didn't understand him bringing on Commons tonight either. I think we need a change but I'm not a huge Strachan fan and I don't think the SFA would risk bringing in someone who can be as outspoken as Levein. There's no hugely obvious candidate imo.


Good post. :agree:

[the_ginger_hibee]

All I'll say is that his subs last night were reminiscent of Mixu.

Exactly, the most frustrating side to Burley, apart from 4-0 drubbings, is his inability to make crucial subs when it counts. I did initially want him to go and I think I still do but the weegie mafia would lap it up too much and claim it as a 'victory' so I'm not sure.

He can only piss in the pot he's given but at the same time some decisons have been awful. Not helped by some overgrown weegie neds and loudmouth over paid blazers right enough.

[blackpoolhibs]

Exactly, the most frustrating side to Burley, apart from 4-0 drubbings, is his inability to make crucial subs when it counts. I did initially want him to go and I think I still do but the weegie mafia would lap it up too much and claim it as a 'victory' so I'm not sure.

He can only piss in the pot he's given but at the same time some decisons have been awful. Not helped by some overgrown weegie neds and loudmouth over paid blazers right enough.

:top marks If Hartley was knackered, how bloody knackered was Miller? Fletcher should have replaced Miller, or if he was intent on keeping the player on, then Fletcher should have been the one to partner him. Burleys substitutions were too late.

I would have had Miller off with 25 minutes to go, and replaced him with fletcher. We were actually creating chances, and were still in the competition. It was as clear as the nose on his face, Miller was never going to score, and was tired, and kept giving the ball straight back to the dutch every time he got it. He should have been hooked, imho it was clear to everyone, but Burley.

[bobbyhibs1983]

I think Burley's problem has been the fact that he's stuck by guys who are obviously no good or past it, Caldwell. Alexander,McManus, jezz even bringing back Davidson.

Apart from missing McFadden last night I thought the team was better balanced but the lack of a natural scorer was plainly evident.

Why has Burley continually overlooked Hibs players, apart from Fletcher who's just moved. In Riordan we have a player similar to McFadden, who can create a chance out of nothing. Murray has played tremendously well since coming back and was one of the most consistent players in the SPL last year, yet gets overlooked every squad. :confused:









:top marks agree 100% mate


why is it these 2 players he has mentioned not been picked? are people thinking kenny i cant score miller is better than deeks?

Are we saying murray is less worth a cap in the people who get choosen?



I hate to say it but i think its our own fault really. kenny miller how many goals has he socred for scotland at that campaign? 0?how many chances has he wasted?


I also think when you refuse to play boyd who is has a fantastic scoring record in the spl, is lef ton the bench when you NEED to score was a bad move.
Just imagen if you guys and gals were a footballer score loads and loads of goals and you are sat on the bench and your team needs to score and you put on somone else(sorry i forgot that guys name unsure of his scoring record down south though), how would you feel?


bottom line is burley seems happen not wanting to score, we scored 4 goals or something in 10 games?
no wonder we never got 2nd, i think we are lucky we are not bottom
we won 2 games and drawn 1 game what a crap record.
As a few people have mentioned i think it does run right down scootish football.


Bottom line is i think we need to dump players like weir, axlander miller caldwell,davidison and the hangers ons old firm players who only get a game cos who they play for and get some young players who wanna play for scotland
who would i have in?

harry potter from dundee united if he wanted the job.
no to the tango man ,no to strachan either

[--------]

I hope the SFA are brave, I hope they stick with Burley. Despite him being ex hearts, and despite the seemingly shambolic nature of a large portion of this campain, I think he is a good manager, and I think the last couple of games have shown that we are improving, and the players are starting to take on board what he has been trying to do. And what was that? He's been trying to get us to play football, none of this anti football rubbish that we have seen under virtually every Scotland manager since, and including, paw broon.

I'd much rather see us fail to qualify by trying to play football than fail to qualify by playing anti football like we did under uncle walter and gjp. (I can't believe some people in the press are seriously suggesting we try to get uncle walter back... Have they forgotten how he left us in the lurch right in the middle of a qualifying campain?) who else is there really? Strachan? Give me a break... Levein? Have we all forgotten his famous 9-1-1 formations at hearts?

Give burley another qualifying shot, and see what he does with his skilful, ball playing players, like maloney, fletcher, McCormack, commons, Naismith and Whittaker, now that he has got shot of huddies like mcculloch, ferguson, and Boyd, and now that he seems to have gained the confidence and respect of the squad.

I hope he stays, I like him, I like the football he wants the team to play, I like the performances in the last two games, and I like the fact he doesn't seem scared to pick players who can do something different, which the previous managers didn't do, with mcfadden The obvious exception.



I'm inclined to agree with you, Sergio - with one condition.

The SFA has to back the guy. Players have to be told that he's the boss and that what he says goes.

No more back-stabbing from people like Peat.

In fact, a good start would be to take Peat out the back of the Main Stand at HGampden and shoot him. Along with one or two others of his kind.

[Hiber-nation]

Not pick him?

I said "Miller & co". He wasn't the only one. And others didn't even get into the positions to miss the one-on-ones.

[hibsdaft]

until the players put 100% into the easier ties then we're never going to get anywhere. the focus on Burley lets them off the hook and is in danger of being counter-productive.

i totally disagree with all the doom and gloom too, we have a decent spine there and more players playing top flight (EPL/ regular CL) football than in a long time. we've got decent flair players and good technique throughout the XI with a couple of standout performers like Gordon, Brown and also the talisman McFadden.

we're still just waiting on that clinical finisher to round things off and turn draws into wins etc - Boyd is not the answer there (fat slow ********) and neither clearly is Kenny Miller (much though i like the guy and his all round play).

Fleck maybe eventually?

[Dinkydoo]

It's a no for me - simply because I very much doubt we would get anyone better.

If the likes of JC or Strachan were intrested then I'd replace him.

We played really well last night, we were unlucky in the Norway game with a sending off and the first two goals took wicked deflections.

Not all Burley's fault. I know he's a bit of a tit and his subs can be hopeless at times but unless we are going to appoint a better manager I see no point what so ever in getting rid off him.

[JimBHibees]

I'll repeat what I said earlier, as I posted it on the wrong thread really.....

Aye, it's George Burley's fault.

It's Burley's fault that a technically inferior team matched up to one of the best in the world for 90 minutes. It's George Burley's fault I just witnessed Scotland play some of the best football I have seen from then in the last 10 years. I would pay to watch that, and it certainly was no embarrassment.

We passed the ball at times in a way that you would be looking at Holland to. Pride, that's what you can take from tonight. Charlie Nicholas doesn't think we have the quality - but our passing was excellent, our movement was excellent, we were dangerous, and apart from Weir's lapse, we were defensively solid.

What changes should Scotland have made? O'Connor on earlier? Perhaps, although we were making chances right until they scored and he was introduced. Fletcher on? Maloney, Naismith and Miller were always getting into good positions and making chances. Naismith was unlucky have hit the post, it was a great save to stop the rebound. Miller was unlucky with another chance too, and was unfortunate to crack the crossbar. Brown was just an inch away from scoring too. We were unfortunate to have a goal chopped off, which, if it was offside, was marginal. We should have had a penalty as well. We were unfortunate all night long.

George Burley has us playing a brand of football I enjoy watching. Walter Smith didnt do that. Souness wouldn't do that. He's had injuries and suspensions. He's had a badly planned fixture schedule. He's had Boyd, the most prolific Scottish stiker available, turn his back on the team, he's had his captain and back up keeper force his hand. He's had stupid decisions from experienced players - Caldwell and Weir most recently. He's had the people above him stab him in the back. He's had a raging Glaswegian press, who's noses are so far up (thier hun hero) Souness' brass eye, that they started with the "Does Burley have the credentials?" chat before he was even appointed! That same press that could never wait to hammer him and his players.

Fans may well judge Burley to have made some poor decisions - but look at the manager's position. George Burley believes that football should be played in a certain way. Tony Mowbray, our greatest manager for 25 years, shaped his ideology on his time working with Burley. If we stick with George Burley we may well be looking at a team we can take pride in for, not only giving 100% when they're up against it, but take pride in the kind of football they play. It will take time to change.

Either that, or we start the managerial merry go round all over again.

To me that is a fantastic post. The performance last night was one of the best from a Scotland team in ages, we were passing well and going toe to toe with one of the best in the World. Very unlucky to lose and to me Burley deserves time to bring through what is looks like he is developing. Some of the press particularly the Record have had it in for him since day 1 which is disgusting in the extreme.

[darwenhibby]

Before Saturday I was one for thinking that Burley should go.

As some one said on here that he is trying to sow a silk purse from a sows ear.

I agree that the decline started around about Argentina 78. We never have seemed to recover.

The decline accelerated in the Vogts era base on two things (1) he was clueless and (2) was there not any Scottish talent breaking through at the time because Scottish teams were spending money on high wages for the likes of Paco Luna's and other equivalents at other Scottish Clubs.

It was only because the Sky deal collapsed that clubs had to invest in our youth systems. It took a while for these players to develop and hence the reason over the last two games we saw players such as Naismith, Brown, McFadden making a significant contribution to the National team.

Burley made some poor decisions but the whole campaign was flawed.

The solution will not be completely resolved until we have a continuous conveyor of youth that is being produced from our Clubs.

We need to mix the up and at them, with technical ability.

The up and at them is in our blood, we are all proud to be Scottish.
We need to take an alternative route to coach technical ability.

My suggestion would be to (1) get the local councils to invest in the municipal parks, better playing surfaces, drainage systems. Not the mud baths we have from the end of September to May. (2) play the youth leagues in the Summer when we can coach in more pleasant climates.

I would be tempted to even switch All Scottish professional football to the Summer.
Scottish Football would not be in the shadow then of the English Premier League.

It may become a more attractive product for them to broadcast in the Summer as opposed to the small amounts that are invested from TV money.

At least give the National Manager a fighting chance. A

At the moment let Burley continue into one more campaign.

[Part/Time Supporter]

Before Saturday I was one for thinking that Burley should go.

As some one said on here that he is trying to sow a silk purse from a sows ear.

I agree that the decline started around about Argentina 78. We never have seemed to recover.

The decline accelerated in the Vogts era base on two things (1) he was clueless and (2) was there not any Scottish talent breaking through at the time because Scottish teams were spending money on high wages for the likes of Paco Luna's and other equivalents at other Scottish Clubs.

It was only because the Sky deal collapsed that clubs had to invest in our youth systems. It took a while for these players to develop and hence the reason over the last two games we saw players such as Naismith, Brown, McFadden making a significant contribution to the National team.

Burley made some poor decisions but the whole campaign was flawed.

The solution will not be completely resolved until we have a continuous conveyor of youth that is being produced from our Clubs.

We need to mix the up and at them, with technical ability.

The up and at them is in our blood, we are all proud to be Scottish.
We need to take an alternative route to coach technical ability.

My suggestion would be to (1) get the local councils to invest in the municipal parks, better playing surfaces, drainage systems. Not the mud baths we have from the end of September to May. (2) play the youth leagues in the Summer when we can coach in more pleasant climates.

I would be tempted to even switch All Scottish professional football to the Summer.
Scottish Football would not be in the shadow then of the English Premier League.

It may become a more attractive product for them to broadcast in the Summer as opposed to the small amounts that are invested from TV money.

At least give the National Manager a fighting chance. A

At the moment let Burley continue into one more campaign.

That's just daft, if we don't get off to a flier in the next campaign Burley will come under increased pressure. This campaign has been a shambles and Burley is largely culpable for that. Gordon Smith seems to be copping it for the fixture list, but Burley must or should have had some input to that. Craig Brown was very clever at that usually; we punched above our weight for the best part of a decade. I think we have better players now than we did under Brown but we are nowhere near qualifying now.

[Mag7]

To me that is a fantastic post. The performance last night was one of the best from a Scotland team in ages, we were passing well and going toe to toe with one of the best in the World. Very unlucky to lose and to me Burley deserves time to bring through what is looks like he is developing. Some of the press particularly the Record have had it in for him since day 1 which is disgusting in the extreme.

The whole 'pride restored' thing has long ago failed to wash with me. Scotland did NOT go 'toe to toe' with the Dutch. The Dutch arrived last night knowing that they could afford to lose as they've known for ages that they're going to South Africa. Scotland knew they had to win to have even the remotest chance of going. Yes, there was the matter of trying to win every qualifying game at stake for the Dutch, but essentially all the pressure was off. Had there been any pressure on them (ie had they not yet secured qualification) then you could have said Scotland went toe to toe, but as it was it was simply an all-too familiar too little too late fighting performance. It's like Hibs when they lose a cup tie in particularly disappointing fashion, you always get the 'we owe the fans' stuff coming out ahead of the next game. What the players don't seem to understand is that even if they win the next game, it's the one they lost that mattered, THAT'S the one they owed the fans a good performance in. Scotland owed the fans not to lose in Macedonia and Norway so that they could afford to lose home and away to the Dutch and still secure second place. They failed dismally to pick up points when it mattered and last night's defeat was an irrelevance, no matter how gutsy the performance might have been. As is often said, the table doesn't lie, and third place proves Burley deserves all the flak he's getting.

[JimBHibees]

The whole 'pride restored' thing has long ago failed to wash with me. Scotland did NOT go 'toe to toe' with the Dutch. The Dutch arrived last night knowing that they could afford to lose and as they've known for ages that they're going to South Africa. Scotland knew they had to win to have even the remotest chance of going. Yes, there was the matter of trying to win every qualifying game at stake for the Dutch, but essentially all the pressure was off. Had there been any pressure on them (ie had they not yet secured qualification) then you could have said Scotland went toe to toe, but as it was it was simply an all-too familiar too little too late fighting performance. It's like Hibs when they lose a cup tie in particularly disappointing fashion, you always get the 'we owe the fans' stuff coming out ahead of the next game. What the players don't seem to understand is that even if they win the next game, it's the one they lost that mattered, THAT'S the one they owed the fans a good performance in. Scotland owed the fans not to lose in Macedonia and Norway so that they could afford to lose home and away to the Dutch and still secure second place. They failed dismally to pick up points when it mattered and last night's defeat was an irrelevance, no matter how gutsy the performance might have been. As is often said, the table doesn't lie, and third place proves Burley deserves all the flak he's getting.


Of course they went toe to toe with the Dutch are you saying the Dutch werent trying to win the game of course they were. It has been a poor campaign however IMO there have been factors not least the shambolic fixture schedule for the Norway and Macedonia away games. Norway away was poor and we were playing with 10 men for an hour. I would have agreed with your vehement campaign to get rid of Burley however to me the last game and a half have been very good with reasons to think we can get better. Dont think there is any point of getting shot of Burley for who, failed managers like Souness or a clown like Nicholas.

Were you not also moaning when we beat France home and away. I've got news for you we are a wee country and we arent going to be winning the World cup anytime soon.

[JimBHibees]

That's just daft, if we don't get off to a flier in the next campaign Burley will come under increased pressure. This campaign has been a shambles and Burley is largely culpable for that. Gordon Smith seems to be copping it for the fixture list, but Burley must or should have had some input to that. Craig Brown was very clever at that usually; we punched above our weight for the best part of a decade. I think we have better players now than we did under Brown but we are nowhere near qualifying now.

I dont believe for a minute Burley wanted the schedule he got.

[Alicky Ranks]

Of course they went toe to toe with the Dutch are you saying the Dutch werent trying to win the game of course they were. It has been a poor campaign however IMO there have been factors not least the shambolic fixture schedule for the Norway and Macedonia away games. Norway away was poor and we were playing with 10 men for an hour. I would have agreed with your vehement campaign to get rid of Burley however to me the last game and a half have been very good with reasons to think we can get better. Dont think there is any point of getting shot of Burley for who, failed managers like Souness or a clown like Nicholas.

Were you not also moaning when we beat France home and away. I've got news for you we are a wee country and we arent going to be winning the World cup anytime soon.

I'd imagine the Dutch wanted to round off their campaign with a win to preserve their 100% record, but I don't think they needed to get out of third gear. Scotland, on the other hand, had to bust a gut and play at their very best. And yet it still wasn't good enough to get even a point.

I think it woud be foolish to give Burley a second chance on the basis of the last two games at Hampden when the atmosphere virtually ensured a fighting show. Burley needed to prove he could coax a performance out of his players for the less glamorous, but far more important, games. We should have been going into last night's game having comfortably secured second place, not battling desperately against the odds. Last night IMHO pulled the wool over a lot of fans eyes who would have previously wanted Burley out. I say don't be fooled. Otherwise we could find ourselves a couple of games into yet another qualifying campaign with our hopes virtually over.

[Mag7]

I'd imagine the Dutch wanted to round off their campaign with a win to preserve their 100% record, but I don't think they needed to get out of third gear. Scotland, on the other hand, had to bust a gut and play at their very best. And yet it still wasn't good enough to get even a point.

I think it woud be foolish to give Burley a second chance on the basis of the last two games at Hampden when the atmosphere virtually ensured a fighting show. Burley needed to prove he could coax a performance out of his players for the less glamorous, but far more important, games. We should have been going into last night's game having comfortably secured second place, not battling desperately against the odds. Last night IMHO pulled the wool over a lot of fans eyes who would have previously wanted Burley out. I say don't be fooled. Otherwise we could find ourselves a couple of games into yet another qualifying campaign with our hopes virtually over.

Exactly.

Bottom line: 10 points and third place in that group = pitiful.

[HFC07]

:agree::agree::agree:

give burley the next campaign i say

we cant change manager every 2 years. give him time and i reckon he'll get it right

I agree, we should keep Burley. Its the players fault we didn't qualify, thinking there on a jolly going away with Scotland instead of working hard and putting in a decent shift.

[JimBHibees]

I'd imagine the Dutch wanted to round off their campaign with a win to preserve their 100% record, but I don't think they needed to get out of third gear. Scotland, on the other hand, had to bust a gut and play at their very best. And yet it still wasn't good enough to get even a point.

I think it woud be foolish to give Burley a second chance on the basis of the last two games at Hampden when the atmosphere virtually ensured a fighting show. Burley needed to prove he could coax a performance out of his players for the less glamorous, but far more important, games. We should have been going into last night's game having comfortably secured second place, not battling desperately against the odds. Last night IMHO pulled the wool over a lot of fans eyes who would have previously wanted Burley out. I say don't be fooled. Otherwise we could find ourselves a couple of games into yet another qualifying campaign with our hopes virtually over.

Nonsense IMO they were trying alright and gained an undeserved win due to a poor goal. Alot thought we would get outclassed and turned over 3 or 4 nil, that clearly didnt happen.Alot of people moaned when Scotland played dreadful, unentertaining boring football yet when they actually play as well as a very good International team they are also criticised. I think fans are capable of deciding for themselves what sort of performance they witnessed last night. It was excellent and skilful with a fair number of good young players playing well and minus 2 of his best players. I think it showed the manager did know what he was doing.

I think there are reasons for some of the results in the other games not all but some the scheduling was chronic for example and we played an hour with 10 men in another game. I think given the last 2 games it qwould be foolish not to let him manage the next campaign especially when there isnt likely to be long queue of quality managers wanting it.

[ginger_rice]

I blame <snip>Thatcher because I always do.
.

:agree:

[CentreLine]

??? Surely what should be driving football on in this country is the possibility of playing at major finals? If all we're interested in as winning a game against our nearest and dearest that ultimately means nothing, then we really should be thinking about packing it all in.

You are missing the point. The desire to rise to the occasion against England led IMO to the development of players that could hold their own on the bigger stage, that could and did qualify for world cups. Beating England is not the be all and end all but it was a means to an end. Imagine our squad had a game to look forward to every year against the Rooney's and Terry's of this world. They would sink or swim. Experience tells us it created players who could swim with the big fish.
BRING BACK THE OLDEST INTERNATIONAL IN THE WORLD. Bring on the English.

[Horse]

I've said it before and I'll say it again - there is no need to sack Burley, all we need to do is let Romanov pick the team, tactics and substitutions and let Burley take all the credit! It worked pretty well during George "Dubya" Burley's short time at the bus shelter. With that "dream team" at the helm of the national side Scotland would instantly have a hard core support of 400,000 and be the third force in world football (potentially). World domination would be a certainty!

[Alicky Ranks]

Nonsense IMO they were trying alright and gained an undeserved win due to a poor goal. Alot thought we would get outclassed and turned over 3 or 4 nil, that clearly didnt happen.Alot of people moaned when Scotland played dreadful, unentertaining boring football yet when they actually play as well as a very good International team they are also criticised. I think fans are capable of deciding for themselves what sort of performance they witnessed last night. It was excellent and skilful with a fair number of good young players playing well and minus 2 of his best players. I think it showed the manager did know what he was doing.

I think there are reasons for some of the results in the other games not all but some the scheduling was chronic for example and we played an hour with 10 men in another game. I think given the last 2 games it qwould be foolish not to let him manage the next campaign especially when there isnt likely to be long queue of quality managers wanting it.

I'm not denying Scotland played well, I simply don't think that if it had been essential for the Dutch to take something from the game we would have got near them. I think it would be wrong to conclude Scotland are suddenly heading in the right direction on the basis of that sort of game. What Burley has 'achieved' IMHO is the equivalent of taking over a reasonably capable club side at the start of the season and getting them relegated, but thrown in a last hurrah when it's too late.

[weecounty hibby]

I voted to keep him. Last night was the first time I have seen an up and at 'em performance from Scotland for a long time. Even with some of the names mentioned above I don't think we are technically good enough to compete with the Dutch unless we have that kind of attitude. That was the way we played in the 70s and 80s before Roxburgh and Brown knocked it out of us and we need to get back to it. Get Intae Thum

[Lewis77]

Aye, sack him now!!

[MGmick]

Yeah! Whatever. Sack him, keep him on, make him first minister if you like. What difference will it make?

If he goes will we suddenly have good players?

[500miles]

BRING BACK THE OLDEST INTERNATIONAL IN THE WORLD. Bring on the English.
David Weir isn't english?:confused:

:wink:

[YetholmHibee]

No, I would not sack him. :agree:

Why sack him? Who is going to replace him?

Souness - after what he did at Newcastle NO THANKS!

Have the 'brilliant' scottish players been let down by Burley?
I don't think so because we are not brilliant.

I think Burley, Butcher & co are hurting & have learned a lot & lets use that learned info for Euro 2012.

Lets not start again with a new manager. :grr:

The SFA have not helped Burley by organising games at the wrong time (Macedonia away & Norway away). :wink:

[steakbake]

if burley goes, then i think peat and smith will be worrying about their jobs also being on the line. if he stays, they'll be protected from the flak with burley copping most of it.

i dont think he has been helped by the choice of fixtures we agreed to - i cannot for the life of me understand why we decided to play the norway game outside of our season while they were mid-way through theirs. surely, the sensible thing would be to play it when it was planned for and not to move it because it would have been useful for celtic and rangers' european adventures?

if we had actually got through, it would have been despite of the SFA not because of them.

the peat/smith thing aside, i changed my mind overnight and i now think that he should be given a chance to stay on, but things need to change. too many players calling off for scotland and getting 2nd, 3rd, 4th chances, too much compromise to benefit the OF and what terry butcher and presley are doing there, i have no idea.

butcher managed a team into relegation and now sits 7th in our second tier league. presley has absolutely no experience in a management capacity at any level, so what the f he's doing messing about with our international team is a mystery to me.

we should also pick a team and stick with them. i heard tonight we used 33 players during the qualifying campaign. seems rather a lot to me. we need a core side, so they get used to playing together, develop a team spirit and start to get a feel for how to play as a unit. otherwise, it will always seem that people are drafted in because no-one else is available to put out a team to represent us and to me, that just isn't good enough for my country. make the scotland side worth breaking into. at the moment, many players just need to wait their turn and they'll get a shot eventually. **** that. if you want people to play for you and play their best, they need to be hungry to get a hard-earned place and to do that, we'll need to starve a few of them. (i love a metaphor).

if they do decide to bin him, i think that neither souness or strachan will be picked and they'll probably go for someone totally different. perhaps i'm just cynical, but i reckon souness or strachan would be too much for someone like gordon smith to be able to handle.

[CentreLine]

David Weir isn't english?:confused:

:wink:

:top marks:faf::faf::faf:

[Allant1981]

I voted yes to sacking him, He was given one job to do when employed and that was to get Scotland to the world cup in what is probably the easiest group we have been in for years. Yes we were never going to finish 1st but we should have finished 2nd by a country mile. His team selections at times were crazy and the way he has handled some situations is not the way a gaffer should have handled them. Who gets the job next I have no idea but he cant be any worse than what we have at the moment

[blackpoolhibs]

I voted yes to sacking him, He was given one job to do when employed and that was to get Scotland to the world cup in what is probably the easiest group we have been in for years. Yes we were never going to finish 1st but we should have finished 2nd by a country mile. His team selections at times were crazy and the way he has handled some situations is not the way a gaffer should have handled them. Who gets the job next I have no idea but he cant be any worse than what we have at the moment

:agree:
We always get the argument that if we sack X Y or Z, there is nobody out there to replace them. We would still have Bertie Vogts if that was the case, or Hibs would still have Blobby. There is always someone to replace a football manager, sack him today, and i guarantee we would have a list the length of my arm within a week. The English headhunted Capello, the Iris went after Trappatoni. The men are out there, maybe we will have to look a bit further than the end of our nose, and go out and get a proven manager. Look at the likes of Gus Hiddink, someone of that ilk, who has managed countries who have not done much in world football, but got them achieving way above their expectations. The people are out there, but i suppose it will be strapon or souness we will go for.