Spot on Charlie and Ronald

[B'Briggs Hibee]

Now i dont really mind Charlie Nic and i could take him or leave him but i thought his comments were spot on tonight. He was correct when he said we will never get better unless we copy Holland. They are a country of much the same population yet what do they do so right that we do so wrong?

He was also right when he said if Miller's chance fell to a dutchman it would have burst the net yet our so called first pick striker misses. It was a great effort but this is a trend that will never go away.

[Hiber-nation]

Now i dont really mind Charlie Nic and i could take him or leave him but i thought his comments were spot on tonight. He was correct when he said we will never get better unless we copy Holland. They are a country of much the same population yet what do they do so right that we do so wrong?

He was also right when he said if Miller's chance fell to a dutchman it would have burst the net yet our so called first pick striker misses. It was a great effort but this is a trend that will never go away.

:agree:

Just saying that myself, year after year we've got a bunch of honest triers but never the quality you need. Where do you start though? There's not even a glimmer of light as far as strikers go, they all seem to get coached to run until they drop. What about finishing? The only natural finisher we've got is a fat lazy git who'll probably never play for his country again.

[nonshinyfinish]

:agree:

Just saying that myself, year after year we've got a bunch of honest triers but never the quality you need. Where do you start though? There's not even a glimmer of light as far as strikers go, they all seem to get coached to run until they drop. What about finishing? The only natural finisher we've got is a fat lazy git who'll probably never play for his country again.

Don't worry, Nade's time will come.

[hibbie02]

Now i dont really mind Charlie Nic and i could take him or leave him but i thought his comments were spot on tonight. He was correct when he said we will never get better unless we copy Holland. They are a country of much the same population yet what do they do so right that we do so wrong?

He was also right when he said if Miller's chance fell to a dutchman it would have burst the net yet our so called first pick striker misses. It was a great effort but this is a trend that will never go away.

I agree with the idea here, but the Dutch League is as bad, if not worse than ours. The Dutch bring through good young players and they are ootae Holland as soon as poss and into decent leagues. They don't get everything right.

However its not as if there are queues of (decent) foreigners wanting to play in Holland, so it is mostly Dutch players in their league teams.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Don't really know but I doubt it can be harder being a smug ******** on tv than actually managing a team.
Wonder Charlie will put his hat into the ring next time the job comes up so he can lead the copying of Holland?

:agree: He also tipped Cameroon for the World Cup. He talks so much sense...

[the_ginger_hibee]

Don't really know but I doubt it can be harder being a smug ******** on tv than actually managing a team.
Wonder Charlie will put his hat into the ring next time the job comes up so he can lead the copying of Holland?

Kenny Van Miller :confused:

[HibbyAndy]

:agree: He also tipped Cameroon for the World Cup. He talks so much sense...



I think he's right..an African team will win the WC :agree:

[Danderhall Hibs]

I think he's right..an African team will win the WC :agree:

Who's qualified from Africa? South Africa get a freeby but who are the others?

[PISTOL1875]

Who's qualified from Africa? South Africa get a freeby but who are the others?

Ivory Coast.........

[random sub]

[QUOTE=B'Briggs Hibee;2168141] They are a country of much the same population yet what do they do so right that we do so wrong?

Population of Holland is 16.5 million. They have more than three times as many people to choose from- it does make a difference....and they are all six feet tall and healthy eaters :greengrin

[PISTOL1875]

Now i dont really mind Charlie Nic and i could take him or leave him but i thought his comments were spot on tonight. He was correct when he said we will never get better unless we copy Holland. They are a country of much the same population yet what do they do so right that we do so wrong?

He was also right when he said if Miller's chance fell to a dutchman it would have burst the net yet our so called first pick striker misses. It was a great effort but this is a trend that will never go away.

Didn't the Dutch guy who ran the set-up over there get a job in the SFA a few years ago to try and sort out Scottish Football ???

[B'Briggs Hibee]

I agree with the idea here, but the Dutch League is as bad, if not worse than ours. The Dutch bring through good young players and they are ootae Holland as soon as poss and into decent leagues. They don't get everything right.

However its not as if there are queues of (decent) foreigners wanting to play in Holland, so it is mostly Dutch players in their league teams.


I know the dutch league is bad but what i mean is the players that they keep churning out. They have guys who go for millions of pounds and play for the biggest clubs in the world year on year. Our most gifted player(McFadden) plays for Birmingham.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Ivory Coast.........

I'd like them to win it.

[HibbyAndy]

Who's qualified from Africa? South Africa get a freeby but who are the others?



How about Ghana.. Ivory coast..


Any team on any given day can beat Brazil...Argentina arent exactly in a position to qaulify right now which makes an African's team on route to the finals a wee bit easier.

[PISTOL1875]

I know the dutch league is bad but what i mean is the players that they keep churning out. They have guys who go for millions of pounds and play for the biggest clubs in the world year on year. Our most gifted player(McFadden) plays for Birmingham.

The conveyor belt of Dutch quality players never stops.. It's all down to there set up.. Football minded people are at the the top of Dutch Football...We have George Peat who had a great footballing career.........

[B'Briggs Hibee]

[QUOTE=B'Briggs Hibee;2168141] They are a country of much the same population yet what do they do so right that we do so wrong?

Population of Holland is 16.5 million. They have more than three times as many people to choose from- it does make a difference....and they are all six feet tall and healthy eaters :greengrin

I stand corrected

[RoslinInstHibby]

greece showed a few years back that you can be succesfull against more technically gifted sides. The manager imho has to take the bulk of the blame, we have some talented players, they just have not been best used.

[B'Briggs Hibee]

Where i think we come so short is Facilities. Basically there are none or very little for kids to be taught the art of football . We have *****ty gravel pitches that you dare not fall on and what happens to the grass pitches when it's summer and maybe the chance of some good weather? That's right, goal posts get taken down.

[iwasthere1972]

Now i dont really mind Charlie Nic and i could take him or leave him but i thought his comments were spot on tonight. He was correct when he said we will never get better unless we copy Holland. They are a country of much the same population yet what do they do so right that we do so wrong?

He was also right when he said if Miller's chance fell to a dutchman it would have burst the net yet our so called first pick striker misses. It was a great effort but this is a trend that will never go away.

That's like comparing the population of Edinburgh to Dundee.

Holland has a population three times the size of Scotland. :agree:

edit: Note that someone else has rightly pointed this out.

[libernian]

nothiong to do with facilities in my opinion. i remember when a played youth football a few guys went pro who were gash - but they were big. thats the way it is in scotland and wee guys who are not strong or fast dont get a look in. ronald got it totally right.

[Jonnyboy]

Don't really know but I doubt it can be harder being a smug ******** on tv than actually managing a team.
Wonder Charlie will put his hat into the ring next time the job comes up so he can lead the copying of Holland?

I'm no fan of Charlie Nic but feel I have to defend him here. He's not a manager, has no desire to be a manager and so is unlikely to put his hat in the ring.

What he said (unusually for him IMO) was right on the money. Until and unless we start getting it right from grass roots level right through we will always be a nation of triers. Far from it being Burley who should get the pelters it's those smug bassas at the SFA who need sorted out. We appoint folk into national coaching posts via the Largs Mafia and it never works but as long as there are 'boys' there will be a job for them!

Two other points

1. Due to the inability of Scotland youth coaches we failed to secure the services of both Aidan McGeady and James McCarthy. Folk slag the players and call them traitors when it's the coaches that should be nailed to the wall.

2. Until we have more coaches in Scotland that have a Hughes/Mowbray philosophy about how the game should be played we'll continue to breed a bunch of athletes who may or may not be 'no bad' with a ball at their feet :agree:

[Edinburgh Green]

Now i dont really mind Charlie Nic and i could take him or leave him but i thought his comments were spot on tonight. He was correct when he said we will never get better unless we copy Holland. They are a country of much the same population yet what do they do so right that we do so wrong?

He was also right when he said if Miller's chance fell to a dutchman it would have burst the net yet our so called first pick striker misses. It was a great effort but this is a trend that will never go away.


Like Robben? Miller should of scored but you have to give the keeper credit for a fantastic save.

[(((Fergus)))]

I'm no fan of Charlie Nic but feel I have to defend him here. He's not a manager, has no desire to be a manager and so is unlikely to put his hat in the ring.

What he said (unusually for him IMO) was right on the money. Until and unless we start getting it right from grass roots level right through we will always be a nation of triers. Far from it being Burley who should get the pelters it's those smug bassas at the SFA who need sorted out. We appoint folk into national coaching posts via the Largs Mafia and it never works but as long as there are 'boys' there will be a job for them!

Two other points

1. Due to the inability of Scotland youth coaches we failed to secure the services of both Aidan McGeady and James McCarthy. Folk slag the players and call them traitors when it's the coaches that should be nailed to the wall.

2. Until we have more coaches in Scotland that have a Hughes/Mowbray philosophy about how the game should be played we'll continue to breed a bunch of athletes who may or may not be 'no bad' with a ball at their feet :agree:

It also seems they have no idea of which Championship players (probably Premiership too) are eligible to play for Scotland through their grandparents. Only when they sign for the Old Firm do they get noticed.

[WindyMiller]

I lived in Holland for a few years and my sons played for the local team.

Each town/village/city region has it's own club i.e. a piece of land set aside for football, with funds for the setting up of the infrastructure, including clubhouse and changing roooms. The locals then run it for teams from 6 year-old onwards with the emphasis on skill and passing. Obviously as they grow older results become more important, but that comes from the players themselves as much as the coaches.

When my oldest boy played here for his school (in the same team as Ian Murray) the only available place was the Meadows with just a few of us parents turning up to try and guide them. No coaching or changing facilities.

[ScottB]

Now i dont really mind Charlie Nic and i could take him or leave him but i thought his comments were spot on tonight. He was correct when he said we will never get better unless we copy Holland. They are a country of much the same population yet what do they do so right that we do so wrong?

He was also right when he said if Miller's chance fell to a dutchman it would have burst the net yet our so called first pick striker misses. It was a great effort but this is a trend that will never go away.

What kind of nonsense is that? If our players were like the Dutch they'd be better? What cunning insight that is. Miller created numerous chances tonight, yes he didn't score, but neither did the 'mighty' Robben, Kuyt or Van Persie.

What do they do right? They focus on technique and skill, rather than pigeon holling kids from day 1 into positions and being obsessed with size (note the constant bemoaning our supposed lack of 'big' players and branding everyone under 6ft a midget) I would also wager the Dutch team dont go in for many drinking binges, culture is becoming an ever greater anvil round our games neck, not helped by all the folk defending it. Time our players acted like the well paid athletes they should be.


I agree with the idea here, but the Dutch League is as bad, if not worse than ours. The Dutch bring through good young players and they are ootae Holland as soon as poss and into decent leagues. They don't get everything right.

However its not as if there are queues of (decent) foreigners wanting to play in Holland, so it is mostly Dutch players in their league teams.

Sorry what? Must have missed the SPL teams winning the Champions League and producing genuinely world class talent. Id imagine a majority of the top Dutch clubs would wipe the floor with the SPL sides.

Producing players isnt the problem, Id imagine the overwhelming majoirty of players in our league teams are Scottish, and to be honest, we have more than a few who have genuine quality (Gordon, Hutton, Fletcher, Brown, McFadden) we arent producing as many top players as during the Dalglish era, but thats most likely a result of the clubs youth systems grinding to a halt in the 90s with the host of imports.

[Hibby 2005]

How many Scots players are plying their trade in Serie A or Spain? Not one. Holland has several.

[The_Horde]

I'm going to say nothing but watch Yogi's latest interview on HI. :agree:

[Nando™]

the Dutch League is as bad, if not worse than ours.
Good crack aye?

[H1bs6H3arts2 FC]

:agree:

Just saying that myself, year after year we've got a bunch of honest triers but never the quality you need. Where do you start though? There's not even a glimmer of light as far as strikers go, they all seem to get coached to run until they drop. What about finishing? The only natural finisher we've got is a fat lazy git who'll probably never play for his country again.

Deeks is a far better finisher than 'Boyd the Big Bairn' :agree:

[Mikeystewart]

[QUOTE=B'Briggs Hibee;2168141] They are a country of much the same population yet what do they do so right that we do so wrong?

Population of Holland is 16.5 million. They have more than three times as many people to choose from- it does make a difference....and they are all six feet tall and healthy eaters :greengrin

Just beat me to it :greengrin not to mention the alcoholism

[Mikeystewart]

I get the feeling some people havent done there research on Holland and are just making things up to try and justify why Scotland could easily be better than Holland the fact they've been producing players like Van Basten Cruyff Van Nistilroy Berkamp etc consistently for as long as i can remember and not to mention the ones on show yesterday who and this is the bottom line had hee haw to play for. It would take a revalution at the way football is taught and funded in Scotland to even get anywhere near teams like Holland... even England :duck:

[Andy74]

Technically the Dutch league is very good. I went to Utrecht V Venlo a few weeks ago and all the Dutch guys in the office were telling me it would be terrible as they were poor teams.

Well, the standard was way above anyhting I've seen here technically, it was a great game with bags of skill although it didn't have the blood and thunder we'd get here.

They produce good players and it's all about what you provide for the kids at a young age. With more teams have training facilities maybe the clubs can help produce better players over the next few years, but other countries have these facilites just at kids and basic levels all over the country.

As someone mentioned above though the weather and the culture play a big part, we aren't a healthy or an outdoor nation. That's a very difficult thing just for football to address.

When you go to somewhere like Amsterdam who are the fat, loud idiots that overdo the aclohol or the drugs? It's rarely the continental Europeans.

[haagsehibby]

I've lived in Holland for 15 years. I've been a member of 3 different clubs (don't play any more, but when I finished playing I went to the dark side and became a referee) The set up is always the same. Decent facilities, i.e. changing rooms (always with hot showers), usually at least four good grass pitches and more often than not an all weather pitch. The kids play on half size pitches with small goals and are encouraged to pass the ball, in contrast to my experience in UK where the biggest lad was always told to hoof the ball as far up the pitch as possible.

So, it's not rocket science. Things have to change and also be given time.

[Jonnyboy]

I'm going to say nothing but watch Yogi's latest interview on HI. :agree:

Not a lot of help to those that don't subscribe

[JimBHibees]

Don't really know but I doubt it can be harder being a smug ******** on tv than actually managing a team.
Wonder Charlie will put his hat into the ring next time the job comes up so he can lead the copying of Holland?

My thoughts exactly all he does is shot the team down and say we arent good enough which I am sure he will argue is right however that is all he does. When Provan came out in the commentary about Scotland not having a Charlie Nicholas up front I found it hard not to puke. Cant remember Nicholas's international record being anything to write home about and he done really well at Arsenal of course.

The boy is just a whingeing gob with nothing to say.

[Hibby Bairn]

I've lived in Holland for 15 years. I've been a member of 3 different clubs (don't play any more, but when I finished playing I went to the dark side and became a referee) The set up is always the same. Decent facilities, i.e. changing rooms (always with hot showers), usually at least four good grass pitches and more often than not an all weather pitch. The kids play on half size pitches with small goals and are encouraged to pass the ball, in contrast to my experience in UK where the biggest lad was always told to hoof the ball as far up the pitch as possible.

So, it's not rocket science. Things have to change and also be given time.

It is mostly down to the "coaching" mentality in Scotland. They have taken away trophies etc. for younger kids in Scotland but the coaches (mostly unqualified) still play to win. That is a fact.

Last Sunday morning my son was playing in an U9 game in the so called top division in the East. So I guess you might say the kids playing in this division are potentially the perceived "best" 100-200 in the Edinburgh area at the moment (this of course changes with age).

The team they were playing against had a big lad playing. They also had two subs. The big lad played the entire 50 minutes (too long IMO for a match at this age...8 yr olds) at the back. Was never subbed. And was never given the chance to play in another "position" with a smaller player at the back.

There is no reason why that would happen other than the coaches of his team didn't want to get beat. It was a risk to put a smaller player at the back who couldn't "clear their lines". That couldn't be a "wall" to get past. That couldn't tackle strongly.

And why that player (and others) didn't all get their share of "bench time" is also a mystery...other than if they were off the pitch then the team would be "weakened".

I bet when he plays with his friends at school or where he lives he doesn't play "at the back". I bet he wants to score goals. Be like his heroes on the TV.

Total nonsense. :bye:

[Danderhall Hibs]

My thoughts exactly all he does is shot the team down and say we arent good enough which I am sure he will argue is right however that is all he does. When Provan came out in the commentary about Scotland not having a Charlie Nicholas up front I found it hard not to puke. Cant remember Nicholas's international record being anything to write home about and he done really well at Arsenal of course.

The boy is just a whingeing gob with nothing to say.

His record was quite shan - something like 5 goals in 20 games.

[truehibernian]

Gonna sound really old here but I think the problem stems all the way back to the mid 80's and the EIS (teachers) strike which saw teachers basically work set hours and stop doing the extra curricular stuff like football after school, rugby, sports etc. In my school days I was lucky enough to have dedicated teachers both in and out of school who gave up much of their spare time taking school football training, ferrying us to away games in Scottish Cups etc......I played for my school team, my county team, and Hutchie Vale........due in the main to folk giving up a lot of their spare time. These days you just don't see that kind of commitment. The only extra curricular time my son's school gives up is a 45 minute athletics club at Meadowbank and that is only cos the teacher there is committed to that sport. There is also a chronic lack of facilities for a city like Edinburgh. Saughton Enclosure (debatable) and Spartans new ground/training ground are the only ones I could compare to the one's I experienced in Holland and Germany when I went to take part in tournaments abroad. That's a government problem though.......no investment, no infrastructure, no enthusiasm, no world cups I'm afraid. There should be an East Mains type facility in all four corners of the city for community and children's use. A mere 5% of what the trams are costing.........ahh perspective :bitchy:

[Jonnyboy]

My thoughts exactly all he does is shot the team down and say we arent good enough which I am sure he will argue is right however that is all he does. When Provan came out in the commentary about Scotland not having a Charlie Nicholas up front I found it hard not to puke. Cant remember Nicholas's international record being anything to write home about and he done really well at Arsenal of course.

The boy is just a whingeing gob with nothing to say.

Normally I'd agree 100% re Nicholas but I find myself asking the question, what did he say that was wrong?

He said we need to attack the problem at grass roots level

He said we need to have better facilities and more properly qualified coaches

He said we encourage athletes and dismiss the wee guys that have skill but not the physique

None of that is wrong IMO

He's still a blethering skate most of the time though :greengrin

[RoslinInstHibby]

Normally I'd agree 100% re Nicholas but I find myself asking the question, what did he say that was wrong?

He said we need to attack the problem at grass roots level:agree:

He said we need to have better facilities and more properly qualified coaches:agree:

He said we encourage athletes and dismiss the wee guys that have skill but not the physique:agree:

None of that is wrong IMO

He's still a blethering skate most of the time though :greengrin

agree with all of that but i would also ask why the hell a country of our size needs the SPL, the SFA & the SFL. Time for 1 governing body.

[Jonnyboy]

agree with all of that but i would also ask why the hell a country of our size needs the SPL, the SFA & the SFL. Time for 1 governing body.

:top marks :agree:

[dangermouse]

agree with all of that but i would also ask why the hell a country of our size needs the SPL, the SFA & the SFL. Time for 1 governing body.

I'd say scrap the lot of them and set up a new body run by people who knew what they were doing.

[JackRegan]

While I normally cannot stand Gerry McNee, he did pen a wee anecdote, based on a real life encounter which sums up Scottish Football.

Picture the scene...A banquet in Switzerland held by UEFA and FIFA.

I walks Franz Beckenbeaur who is introduced to the Scottish Delegate.

The Scottish Delegate asks Franz, "So who are you again?"

Kaiser Franz (for it is he) replies "I am Franz Beckenbauer - I won the World Cup as a player and a manger. I won the European Championship as a player and a manager and I captained my club to 3 successive European Cups. And who are you?"

The Scottish Delegate replies "Yes, I'm David Will. Chairman of Brechin City".

Subsititute David Will for George Peat and its the same scenario. A small local business man getting to run the game as a result of being involved in a tin pot club. Professional Committee men who would otherwise just be "in the chair" at the masons, the secratary of the Boolin' Club, or a glass collecter at the golf club.

I know he played the game, but Smith is a back sliding, self serving toady and only got the gig because he had a spot on TV. He was even murder at that. He also never fulfilled ANY of the SFAs own criteria in the job spec.

The sad thing is, I don't think there are enough Scots with the credentials or know how to come in and do the jobs required. Maybe Willie Miller, John Collins, Brian McClair, Alex Miller :duck:, with some Europeans to "coach" them would do the trick.

BTW Does anyone know what happened to Ernie Walker's "think tank"? :wink:

[roc1]

agree that Scotland is top heavy in administration. time for change no doubt about it. Unfortunately the blazers at the SFA and SFL , not to mention the Junior and Amateur leagues, who by the way appear to be making a better fist of running their organisations than the very top of the tree, are not going to give up their rights and privileges too easily. The SPL are only interested in CLUB, not International, football with a particular attraction, not surprisingly, the Champions League and the cash it generates. At the moment that only affects the OF!! They also appear to believe we have a 'great product' to help them.:blah::blah:

I wonder how much our skills problems are related to the Largs Coaching
Badges. It seems to me that any player who has even a modicum of individuality has to be re-trained to meet the needs of a team rather than the team being built around and with that talent. We seem to want to stifle talent not nurture and encourage it.

I have little doubt we will hear over the coming days all the usual noises about we need to look at our game from 'grass roots up', there will be talk of a 'forum' which will, undoubtedly, be headed by Lord 'so sand so' who with his vast experience in marketing, retailing et al will produce a paper for the way forward at the earliest possible oportunity and, as always, in four years time we will still be having this same conversation.

mini rant over:yawn::yawn:

[JackRegan]

agree with all of that but i would also ask why the hell a country of our size needs the SPL, the SFA & the SFL. Time for 1 governing body.

Mate look at a page in the Wee Red Book. Add to them, the following...

the SJFA, SAFA, West of Scotland FA etc etc etc

All of whom have shiney offices at Hampden. even the guys running the Juniors don't have a clue.

[JimBHibees]

Normally I'd agree 100% re Nicholas but I find myself asking the question, what did he say that was wrong?

He said we need to attack the problem at grass roots level

He said we need to have better facilities and more properly qualified coaches

He said we encourage athletes and dismiss the wee guys that have skill but not the physique

None of that is wrong IMO

He's still a blethering skate most of the time though :greengrin

He says it after every game we lose it kind of loses the message after the fiftieth time. :greengrin

His standard line is we dont have the technique however IMO there was alot of technique last night from Whittaker, Naismith, Brown, Fletcher etc. Rather than maybe saying we have a number of younger players coming through and that the performance last night was very good which it was it was the same old grassroots, blazers stuff etc. :blah::blah: Bit tiresome IMO.

[Scotsman]

I coach with the SYFA National development squads at Under 15 Level.

Myself and other SYFA coaches were over in Holland as part of a study tour in April for 8 days

For me there are some very significant differences between Scotland and Holland

One Governing Body

The Dutch FA are the sole body responsible for football in Holland, (we have the SPL, SFL , SJFA, SYFA, SWFA, Senior leagues, Junior leagues etc) We need one body with overall strategic responsibility for football in Scotland

Culture Change

We watched kids from 5-18 years old trying to pass the ball at every opportunity, with emphais also on 1-1 situations

Ball possession is key in Holland. 5 Yr old kids were learning possession drills. We have to move away from the Kick and run style in Scotland

Investment in facilities

Each small town has fantastic facilities, many which are the community hub in the town/village. Their is a real sense of ownership/pride in each club. Volunteer numbers for each club are fantastic

Youth Initative

Professional Dutch clubs work very closely with Youth/Semi Pro teams, they often hold coaching workshops for clubs. Clubs often recommend players to the likes of PSV/Ajax.

If a senior club release a youth player they must ensure the player finds a club. They are not just released as they are over here

Coaching Development

All Dutch FA coaches must have ongoing development every year- they are awarded points for every seminar/workshop attended and they have to obtain a certain number of points to ensure they are still qualified

The Dutch system works - I was very impressed by the structure in Holland and am convinced its the way ahead for Scotland

Paul McLennan

[ginger_rice]

I coach with the SYFA National development squads at Under 15 Level.

Myself and other SYFA coaches were over in Holland as part of a study tour in April for 8 days

For me there are some very significant differences between Scotland and Holland

One Governing Body

The Dutch FA are the sole body responsible for football in Holland, (we have the SPL, SFL , SJFA, SYFA, SWFA, Senior leagues, Junior leagues etc) We need one body with overall strategic responsibility for football in Scotland

Culture Change

We watched kids from 5-18 years old trying to pass the ball at every opportunity, with emphais also on 1-1 situations

Ball possession is key in Holland. 5 Yr old kids were learning possession drills. We have to move away from the Kick and run style in Scotland

Investment in facilities

Each small town has fantastic facilities, many which are the community hub in the town/village. Their is a real sense of ownership/pride in each club. Volunteer numbers for each club are fantastic

Youth Initative

Professional Dutch clubs work very closely with Youth/Semi Pro teams, they often hold coaching workshops for clubs. Clubs often recommend players to the likes of PSV/Ajax.

If a senior club release a youth player they must ensure the player finds a club. They are not just released as they are over here

Coaching Development

All Dutch FA coaches must have ongoing development every year- they are awarded points for every seminar/workshop attended and they have to obtain a certain number of points to ensure they are still qualified

The Dutch system works - I was very impressed by the structure in Holland and am convinced its the way ahead for Scotland

Paul McLennan

:top marks now that is a brilliant post, and IMHO needs to be seen much farther afield than these hallowed pages.

Perhaps it should be brought to the attention of the minister in charge of sports at Holy Rood.

Perhaps it is time for a grass roots revolt against the games organisers in this country, turkeys don't vote for Christmas and the Blazers sure a hell won't either.

[Scotsman]

Cheers Mate

Perhaps Hibs could look at how they can play their part in changing football in Scotland.

The Club has to do more at Grassroots level and engage more with Youth Clubs in partnership

There are many clubs in Edinburgh who would benefit from coaching workshops

Paul

[ancient hibee]

The trouble here is that there are far too many competitive leagues for young kids surrounded often by fat men trying to live out fantasies through their kids-shouting at them to get stuck in-nail him -let him have it-you've got to win that ball=lethimknow you're there-meanwhile in many other countries there are no leagues and youngsters are taught to control the ball and pass it and have training routines simulating game situations so that when they eventually move to a team they are confident in their own ability.

[Jonnyboy]

I coach with the SYFA National development squads at Under 15 Level.

Myself and other SYFA coaches were over in Holland as part of a study tour in April for 8 days

For me there are some very significant differences between Scotland and Holland

One Governing Body

The Dutch FA are the sole body responsible for football in Holland, (we have the SPL, SFL , SJFA, SYFA, SWFA, Senior leagues, Junior leagues etc) We need one body with overall strategic responsibility for football in Scotland

Culture Change

We watched kids from 5-18 years old trying to pass the ball at every opportunity, with emphais also on 1-1 situations

Ball possession is key in Holland. 5 Yr old kids were learning possession drills. We have to move away from the Kick and run style in Scotland

Investment in facilities

Each small town has fantastic facilities, many which are the community hub in the town/village. Their is a real sense of ownership/pride in each club. Volunteer numbers for each club are fantastic

Youth Initative

Professional Dutch clubs work very closely with Youth/Semi Pro teams, they often hold coaching workshops for clubs. Clubs often recommend players to the likes of PSV/Ajax.

If a senior club release a youth player they must ensure the player finds a club. They are not just released as they are over here

Coaching Development

All Dutch FA coaches must have ongoing development every year- they are awarded points for every seminar/workshop attended and they have to obtain a certain number of points to ensure they are still qualified

The Dutch system works - I was very impressed by the structure in Holland and am convinced its the way ahead for Scotland

Paul McLennan

Fantastic post and totally factual which makes it all the better :thumbsup:

I really do think this should be sent to the SFA/SPL/SFL etc etc etc with a request for information on when Scotland will be having such a set up :agree:

[weecounty hibby]

Scotland has a population of 5m, we have a piss poor climate which results in pitches, even at the highest level, turning to mud. We have a school system that is not very supportive of sporting endeavour with very limited time put aside on the curriculum for PE. We have a poor set up for running football and probably most other sports in the country. Why should we expect to compete with larger, better organised countries.

I have also played rugby, and right now there are only about 6000 adults playing rugby in Scotland, compare that to England and New Zealand with hundreds of thousands and we STILL expect to compete with them. We may occasionally surprise them and win but that is becoming less and less often.

Football is the same, the more people playing the more chance of finding better players. We are a small nation and should realise this, we no longer have kids playing football because there is nothing else to do, they now have Playstations and X-boxes and the likes.

My mum still lives near the park where, when growing up, during the summer holidays we would play football every day and usually about 20 a side. Now when I visit there is NEVER any kids playing there. I don't know how we can change things but I think we need to have a bit of realism about our ability to compete on the international stage now.

[Mibbes Aye]

agree with all of that but i would also ask why the hell a country of our size needs the SPL, the SFA & the SFL. Time for 1 governing body.

Wasn't it the clubs who pushed for additional governing bodies?

(Agree with you, it looks like it could be streamlined, but it's only fair to acknowledge the situation arose arguably from clubs wanting more control and more money. Which I'm guessing meant less money for infrastructure and grass-roots development???)

[Hibby Bairn]

Scotland has a population of 5m, we have a piss poor climate which results in pitches, even at the highest level, turning to mud. We have a school system that is not very supportive of sporting endeavour with very limited time put aside on the curriculum for PE. We have a poor set up for running football and probably most other sports in the country. Why should we expect to compete with larger, better organised countries.

I have also played rugby, and right now there are only about 6000 adults playing rugby in Scotland, compare that to England and New Zealand with hundreds of thousands and we STILL expect to compete with them. We may occasionally surprise them and win but that is becoming less and less often.

Football is the same, the more people playing the more chance of finding better players. We are a small nation and should realise this, we no longer have kids playing football because there is nothing else to do, they now have Playstations and X-boxes and the likes.

My mum still lives near the park where, when growing up, during the summer holidays we would play football every day and usually about 20 a side. Now when I visit there is NEVER any kids playing there. I don't know how we can change things but I think we need to have a bit of realism about our ability to compete on the international stage now.

Never mind. Wait until they release x-box and PS3 in Holland, Norway, Spain, Macedonia and Italy. Then we will be on an even par. As you can imagine the fields of these countries will obviously be teaming with kids playing football because they don't have consoles. :wink:

[dangermouse]

Scotland has a population of 5m, we have a piss poor climate which results in pitches, even at the highest level, turning to mud. We have a school system that is not very supportive of sporting endeavour with very limited time put aside on the curriculum for PE. We have a poor set up for running football and probably most other sports in the country. Why should we expect to compete with larger, better organised countries.

I have also played rugby, and right now there are only about 6000 adults playing rugby in Scotland, compare that to England and New Zealand with hundreds of thousands and we STILL expect to compete with them. We may occasionally surprise them and win but that is becoming less and less often.

Football is the same, the more people playing the more chance of finding better players. We are a small nation and should realise this, we no longer have kids playing football because there is nothing else to do, they now have Playstations and X-boxes and the likes.

My mum still lives near the park where, when growing up, during the summer holidays we would play football every day and usually about 20 a side. Now when I visit there is NEVER any kids playing there. I don't know how we can change things but I think we need to have a bit of realism about our ability to compete on the international stage now.

Why oh why oh why when the council put the posts back up for the start of the season do they put them in the same place year in year out resulting in the goalmouth looking like a scene form the trenches of world war one!!!

Why not turn the blooming things through 90 degrees each year to let the grass recover. Simples.

[s.a.m]

Wasn't it the clubs who pushed for additional governing bodies?

(Agree with you, it looks like it could be streamlined, but it's only fair to acknowledge the situation arose arguably from clubs wanting more control and more money. Which I'm guessing meant less money for infrastructure and grass-roots development???)


This is the problem. I keep hearing Chic Young ranting about the need for one governing body, but I don't hear him ranting about it to the Celtic / Rangers / Aberdeen / Hibs etc...bosses. Presumably he knows that he would be given short shrift, because the various other organisations are there to (jealously) protect vested interest.

Those of us old enough will remember Jim Farry*. He was openly mocked (and to be fair, he sometimes made it easy for people....) ,by these same people, for considering the interests of lower division clubs / football in general equal to those of the big clubs. I'm not suggesting he had the answer, but he was no sooner out the door than the pendulum had swung almost completely over to the side of the big clubs. And then even further to the Old Firm in particular.



* I'm a bit biased. I once sent him a rant about Hearts' suspicious and repeated failure to put on their New Year Derby fixture. He sent me a very polite reply by return of post. I've liked him ever since.

[hibs1875aye]

Don't really know but I doubt it can be harder being a smug ******** on tv than actually managing a team.
Wonder Charlie will put his hat into the ring next time the job comes up so he can lead the copying of Holland?

Good point mate :agree:

Champagne Charlie eh. He talks a good game (and a lot of the time he doesnt even do that).

He is such a footballing genuis he can be found spouting bitter (and contradictory) crap after every Scotland game on the telly. That's how much in demand his "professional" opinion and football management skills are.

He is a washed up never will be and has peaked on the telly talking *****. Him and Andy Gray would make a good comedy duo for the fringe, couple of muppets together.

The problem we have is simple - we dont play the IN FORM players for Scotland. Riordan should have been in that team. When Boyd was scoring for the huns, he should have been in the team. I could go on all day about the players who've been overlooked. Go right back to the Famous Five - how many goals did Gordon Smith score and yet Scotland have never had a "goalscorer" ??? Dont make me laugh. We have had plenty, we've just had ********s for manager who cant see who should be playing!!!!