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The Voice Of Reason
05-09-2009, 07:01 PM
Norway just gone 1-0 up - that Riise chap.

BLAST ! :grr: :boo hoo:

LamontHFC©
05-09-2009, 07:07 PM
It doesn't really matter does it?

We have to win both games anyway no?

The Voice Of Reason
05-09-2009, 07:10 PM
Aye, but we could maybe afford to draw with Holland and sneak in to the play offs..........I think ?!?!? :confused:

Can anyone with a semblance of common sense please clear this one up ?!? :thumbsup:

Sir David Gray
05-09-2009, 07:11 PM
Cyprus have just equalised against the ROI. :thumbsup:

Very good news for Scotland. :agree:

Hainan Hibs
05-09-2009, 07:15 PM
Northern Ireland 1 up against Poland, not so good for us, but the Cyprus -Ireland score is a wee bit better for us.

bringbackjoeT!!
05-09-2009, 07:17 PM
iceland equalise:thumbsup::thumbsup:

gudjohnsen

Northern Ireland playing really well against Poland- its on sky 992, michael O'Neill pundit:thumbsup:

The Voice Of Reason
05-09-2009, 07:18 PM
1-1 - Iceland have equalised - Gudjohnsen (29 mins) :thumbsup:

Sir David Gray
05-09-2009, 07:19 PM
Northern Ireland 1 up against Poland, not so good for us, but the Cyprus -Ireland score is a wee bit better for us.

We only need to finish above one other second placed team to make the play-offs so the Ireland score will do us just nicely. :agree:

LamontHFC©
05-09-2009, 07:20 PM
We only need to finish above one other second placed team to make the play-offs so the Ireland score will do us just nicely. :agree:

Want to keep as many options open as possible though. The more teams losing the better for us. :greengrin

The Voice Of Reason
05-09-2009, 07:26 PM
We only need to finish above one other second placed team to make the play-offs so the Ireland score will do us just nicely. :agree:

So if results go our way, is it possible that we can afford "only" a draw agains Holland on Wed ?

hibsbollah
05-09-2009, 07:26 PM
So if results go our way, is it possible that we can afford "only" a draw agains Holland on Wed ?

Yes.

LamontHFC©
05-09-2009, 07:26 PM
So if results go our way, is it possible that we can afford "only" a draw agains Holland on Wed ?

Nope, don't think so. Must win me thinks?

Sir David Gray
05-09-2009, 07:29 PM
So if results go our way, is it possible that we can afford "only" a draw agains Holland on Wed ?

Not really, but it might work out that way.

A win might not even be good enough for us to get into the play offs so I would say that it's very unlikely that a draw on Wednesday would get us into them.

hibsbollah
05-09-2009, 07:34 PM
Not really, but it might work out that way.

A win might not even be good enough for us to get into the play offs so I would say that it's very unlikely that a draw on Wednesday would get us into them.

It is possible though. For a start, if Ireland v Cyprus finishes as a draw tonight, (currently 1-1) and we draw against Holland on Weds, we will deffo be ahead of them as one of the better 2nd place qualifiers. (Assuming Norway or Macedonia dont finish above us in 2nd in the group)

Are you following this?:wink:

Sir David Gray
05-09-2009, 07:38 PM
It is possible though. For a start, if Ireland v Cyprus finishes as a draw tonight, (currently 1-1) and we draw against Holland on Weds, we will deffo be ahead of them as one of the better 2nd place qualifiers. (Assuming Norway or Macedonia dont finish above us in 2nd in the group)

Are you following this?:wink:

It is possible but it's extremely unlikely that a draw will be enough. It may secure us 2nd spot in our group but I think we would end up as the worst runner up.

I still think that will happen, even if we win on Wednesday, but at least that would give us a fighting chance.

Randerson_4
05-09-2009, 07:43 PM
It is possible though. For a start, if Ireland v Cyprus finishes as a draw tonight, (currently 1-1) and we draw against Holland on Weds, we will deffo be ahead of them as one of the better 2nd place qualifiers. (Assuming Norway or Macedonia dont finish above us in 2nd in the group)

Are you following this?:wink:

Fairly certain every other group has at least 2 games to go though

hibsbollah
05-09-2009, 07:46 PM
It is possible but it's extremely unlikely that a draw will be enough. It may secure us 2nd spot in our group but I think we would end up as the worst runner up.

I still think that will happen, even if we win on Wednesday, but at least that would give us a fighting chance.

Have a look at the tables in group 3 and 8 and bear in mind the 2nd placed teams will be minus 6 points at the end of their games. I think a draw probably leaves us with a roughly 50/50 chance of progressing... http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/preliminaries/europe/standings/index.html

LamontHFC©
05-09-2009, 07:46 PM
It is possible though. For a start, if Ireland v Cyprus finishes as a draw tonight, (currently 1-1) and we draw against Holland on Weds, we will deffo be ahead of them as one of the better 2nd place qualifiers. (Assuming Norway or Macedonia dont finish above us in 2nd in the group)

Are you following this?:wink:

No we won't.

Every other group has another round aka. 2 games, of fixtures to go. The stuff of nightmares for us likes.

hibsbollah
05-09-2009, 07:47 PM
No we won't.

Every other group has another round aka. 2 games, of fixtures to go. The stuff of nightmares for us likes.


Thats true, but most of them will have 6 points to subtract after theyve played those games...

LamontHFC©
05-09-2009, 07:50 PM
Thats true, but most of them will have 6 points to subtract after theyve played those games...

Yeah.

I've worked it out. . . I think. :greengrin

If we beat Holland we will end up on 13 points. If Rep. of Ireland draw tonight they will be on 14. Their next game is against Italy which they will most likely lose. Then their final game is against Montenegro at home, which they will probably win. This will leave them on 17 points.
Take away 6 from that and they will be on 11. So, therefore, we will be in a better off position than them, and will make the play-offs. :greengrin

Easy eh. . ! :greengrin

The Voice Of Reason
05-09-2009, 07:51 PM
Mmmmm....it is a tad complicated isn't it ?!?

Lets just go out and thump the Dutch then hope for the beast. :thumbsup:

In my heart of hearts do I think we will beat the Dutch ? NO :boo hoo:

hibsbollah
05-09-2009, 07:54 PM
Yeah.

I've worked it out. . . I think. :greengrin

If we beat Holland we will end up on 13 points. If Rep. of Ireland draw tonight they will be on 14. Their next game is against Italy which they will most likely lose. Then their final game is against Montenegro at home, which they will probably win. This will leave them on 17 points.
Take away 6 from that and they will be on 11. So, therefore, we will be in a better off position than them, and will make the play-offs. :greengrin

Easy eh. . ! :greengrin

Spot on:thumbsup: (but only because theyve won both games against bottom Georgia, if another team slip to bottom place who have a better record against Ireland then it might be different)


ARRRGHHHHHH:faf:

hibee_nation
05-09-2009, 08:00 PM
You just know that we will fail by the smallest of margins. :boo hoo:

ballengeich
05-09-2009, 08:01 PM
Spot on:thumbsup: (but only because theyve won both games against bottom Georgia, if another team slip to bottom place who have a better record against Ireland then it might be different)


ARRRGHHHHHH:faf:

With the further complication in these circumstances that Bulgaria could overtake Ireland for 2nd place in their group.

hibsbollah
05-09-2009, 08:05 PM
With the further complication in these circumstances that Bulgaria could overtake Ireland for 2nd place in their group.


...who only managed a draw against georgia, so they will have to subtract 4 points instead of 6, but they have less points now, so...

:blah::blah::blah::blah:

Its complicated, right enough.

PISTOL1875
05-09-2009, 08:10 PM
Poland just scored.. 1-1... What does that do ??

CropleyWasGod
05-09-2009, 08:10 PM
Poland just scored.. 1-1... What does that do ??

Makes that game level... :devil:

PISTOL1875
05-09-2009, 08:11 PM
Makes that game level... :devil:

Hahaha.. I asked for that on I guess.. Well done... :top marks:top marks:top marks

The Voice Of Reason
05-09-2009, 08:12 PM
Ireland have just gone 2-1 up.....fiddlesticks. :boo hoo:

Removed
05-09-2009, 08:12 PM
Poland just scored.. 1-1... What does that do ??

Nothing, still lose my vbuttons unless they score again :pray:

hibee_girl
05-09-2009, 08:13 PM
Poland just scored.. 1-1... What does that do ??

Makes my vbuttons go up :pray: :greengrin

--------
05-09-2009, 08:23 PM
FWIW, The Netherlands beat Japan 3-0 today - all three in the second half. We'll have to play some to beat them.

We have to get out of the group, first of all. If I'm right, we're second right now with 10 points from 7 games, GD -4; FYR Macedonia are third with 7 from 7, GD -5; and Norway are 6 from 6 with GD +1.

If the Iceland-Norway game stays as is, they're 7 from 7, with a home game against Macedonia to come. If Norway win, they're 9 from 7, a point behind.

We relly want Iceland to win tonight, Macedonia to draw in Oslo, and Cyprus to damage the Republic.

BTW - do the second-place teams in the big groups drop a straight 6 points, or do they just drop the points they scored against the bottom club? Because the Republic drew with Montenegro who're likely to be the bottom team in that group.

Big difference for us between them dropping 4 points or 6.

PISTOL1875
05-09-2009, 08:24 PM
FWIW, The Netherlands beat Japan 3-0 today - all three in the second half. We'll have to play some to beat them.

We have to get out of the group, first of all. If I'm right, we're second right now with 10 points from 7 games, GD -4; FYR Macedonia are third with 7 from 7, GD -5; and Norway are 6 from 6 with GD +1.

If the Iceland-Norway game stays as is, they're 7 from 7, with a home game against Macedonia to come. If Norway win, they're 9 from 7, a point behind.

We relly want Iceland to win tonight, Macedonia to draw in Oslo, and Cyprus to damage the Republic.

BTW - do the second-place teams in the big groups drop a straight 6 points, or do they just drop the points they scored against the bottom club? Because the Republic drew with Montenegro who're likely to be the bottom team in that group.

Big difference for us between them dropping 4 points or 6.

:agree::agree::agree::agree::agree:

--------
05-09-2009, 08:25 PM
Norn Iron 1-1 FT.

Slovakia - Czech Rep 2-2 FT.

They're now 3 points ahead of Poland and Slovenia having played one game more.

They play Slovakia at Windsor Park on Wednesday - Slovakia head the group. They have to win that game, then go and get something in the Czech Republic in their last game.

--------
05-09-2009, 08:29 PM
:agree::agree::agree::agree::agree:


Oh, sugarpuffs. :rolleyes:

In that case we need a miracle and Montenegro to get points in the two home games they have coming up against Cyprus and Georgia so that Georgia end up bottom.

ballengeich
05-09-2009, 08:29 PM
BTW - do the second-place teams in the big groups drop a straight 6 points, or do they just drop the points they scored against the bottom club? Because the Republic drew with Montenegro who're likely to be the bottom team in that group.

Big difference for us between them dropping 4 points or 6.

They drop their points against the bottom club.

It's very unlikely that we'll get to the playoffs unless we win on Wednesday. If we do, then if on Wednesday N Ireland don't beat Slovakia, and the Czech Republic draw with Slovenia we're definitely into the playoffs. That group's certainly our best chance of scraping into the 8th playoff place.

--------
05-09-2009, 08:38 PM
They drop their points against the bottom club.

It's very unlikely that we'll get to the playoffs unless we win on Wednesday. If we do, then if on Wednesday N Ireland don't beat Slovakia, and the Czech Republic draw with Slovenia we're definitely into the playoffs. That group's certainly our best chance of scraping into the 8th playoff place.


I think we need to abandon all hope, then anything else will be a bonus. Those games against Norway and the away game against Macedonia have killed us. I don't know what the odds are on us beating The Netherlands, but I'd guess we aren't odds-on.

Remember the days when Wee Moanin Jim Farry would go to the World Cup draw and come away with a fixture list that had Scotland playing when and where Scotland wanted to play?

Republic have won 2-1. That's not good for us. :grr:

Iceland and norway drew 1-1. That IS good for us.

wazoo1875
05-09-2009, 08:44 PM
I think we need to abandon all hope, then anything else will be a bonus. Those games against Norway and the away game against Macedonia have killed us. I don't know what the odds are on us beating The Netherlands, but I'd guess we aren't odds-on.

Remember the days when Wee Moanin Jim Farry would go to the World Cup draw and come away with a fixture list that had Scotland playing when and where Scotland wanted to play?

Republic have won 2-1. That's not good for us. :grr:

Iceland and norway drew 1-1. That IS good for us.
France are currently drawing one each with Romania at home . Five mins left , that would leave them with 14 points from 8 games minus their 6 points against the Faroes . Not quite abandon all hope yet , tho i think we need a win on wednesday .

AFKA5814_Hibs
05-09-2009, 08:46 PM
As things stand right now.

Russia 12 (5)
Croatia 11(6)
Greece 10 (6)
Rep of Ireland 10 (6)
France 10 (5)
Scotland 10 (7)
Bosnia H 9 (5)
N. Ireland 8 (6)
Hungary 7 (5)

Numbers in brackets is number of games played out of the 8 games that count.

ballengeich
05-09-2009, 08:47 PM
France are currently drawing one each with Romania at home . Five mins left , that would leave them with 14 points from 8 games minus their 6 points against the Faroes . Not quite abandon all hope yet , tho i think we need a win on wednesday .

They've only played the Faroes once so far. The group with Denmark, Hungary, Portugal and Sweden has some remote possibilities for us. Agree we need a win on Wednesday.

--------
05-09-2009, 08:57 PM
France are currently drawing one each with Romania at home . Five mins left , that would leave them with 14 points from 8 games minus their 6 points against the Faroes . Not quite abandon all hope yet , tho i think we need a win on wednesday .


THAT's the crunch.

What prats organised it so that we ended up playing the Dutch last game?

The Dutch are seriously good, and we are seriously bad.

And no, I don't count 2-0 against the FYR Macedonia as a a sign of Scotland's mighty resurgence back to the top of world football once again.

wazoo1875
05-09-2009, 08:57 PM
They've only played the Faroes once so far. The group with Denmark, Hungary, Portugal and Sweden has some remote possibilities for us. Agree we need a win on Wednesday.
Just checked that out , they have only played 7 games now too :doh:
Note to self , Stella Artois damages brain cells and blurs the vision .

France are still pish tho :thumbsup:

AFKA5814_Hibs
05-09-2009, 09:27 PM
Updated to include France's draw against Romania.

Russia 12 (5)
Croatia 11(6)
France 11 (6)
Greece 10 (6)
Rep of Ireland 10 (6)
Scotland 10 (7)
Bosnia H 9 (5)
N. Ireland 8 (6)
Hungary 7 (5)

blackpoolhibs
06-09-2009, 12:05 PM
I'm getting the hang of this now, well done guys.
If Greece beat Russia and Hibs Beat St Johnstone then Andy Murray wins the masters event.
That means we have to win on Wednesday:agree:

:top marks:top marks:faf::faf:

Shrekko
06-09-2009, 12:21 PM
What prats organised it so that we ended up playing the Dutch last game?

The Dutch are seriously good, and we are seriously bad.



Absolute masterstroke organising us playing Holland at Hampden in the last game.

Cant think of a better time to play them seeing as they've qualified already- which was always going to be the case.

blackpoolhibs
06-09-2009, 12:27 PM
Absolute masterstroke organising us playing Holland at Hampden in the last game.

Cant think of a better time to play them seeing as they've qualified already- which was always going to be the case.

I agree. If the team had done their work earlier in the campaign, Macedonia away, and Norway at home. The game on Wednesday should have just been a formality.

--------
06-09-2009, 12:27 PM
Absolute masterstroke organising us playing Holland at Hampden in the last game.

Cant think of a better time to play them seeing as they've qualified already- which was always going to be the case.


And playing Macedonia away at the height of their summer?

And playing Norway away the week before the season started, when no club manager in his right mind would want his players absent?

I've heard the argument before - the Dutch won't be trying. We'll be without McFadden and Brown is doubtful - even if he plays he'll be less than 100% fit - so maybe the Dutch won't have to try too hard.

"Masterstroke" is a term I've never thought of as appropriate to associate with anyone around the SFA, frankly.

We'll see.

blackpoolhibs
06-09-2009, 12:36 PM
And playing Macedonia away at the height of their summer?
And playing Norway away the week before the season started, when no club manager in his right mind would want his players absent?

I've heard the argument before - the Dutch won't be trying. We'll be without McFadden and Brown is doubtful - even if he plays he'll be less than 100% fit - so maybe the Dutch won't have to try too hard.

"Masterstroke" is a term I've never thought of as appropriate to associate with anyone around the SFA, frankly.

We'll see.

I think it was Frazerbob who told us, The SFA would not pay the £6000 to put up temporary floodlights, so we could play the game at night. The Dutch did just that, but we wouldn't. I agree playing Norway away was not a great idea.

Shrekko
06-09-2009, 12:51 PM
And playing Macedonia away at the height of their summer?

And playing Norway away the week before the season started, when no club manager in his right mind would want his players absent?

I've heard the argument before - the Dutch won't be trying. We'll be without McFadden and Brown is doubtful - even if he plays he'll be less than 100% fit - so maybe the Dutch won't have to try too hard.

"Masterstroke" is a term I've never thought of as appropriate to associate with anyone around the SFA, frankly.

We'll see.

I dont think every country will get everything they want when the fixtures are being arranged!

Macedonia was ridiculous but the Norway game was played on one of the allocated fixture dates- we had to play somebody and I'm sure it was the same for both teams in terms of preparation.

Lets break it down- we've had a poor campaign but are a draw away (in a home game against a team with nothing to play for) from being 2nd in the group. The draw may well be not enough for qualification but a win would be. It's not a bad position all things considered.

Yes, Holland are better than us but surely you concede that we have a better chance now than we may have had if we'd played them earlier?

--------
06-09-2009, 01:12 PM
I dont think every country will get everything they want when the fixtures are being arranged!

Macedonia was ridiculous but the Norway game was played on one of the allocated fixture dates- we had to play somebody and I'm sure it was the same for both teams in terms of preparation.

Lets break it down- we've had a poor campaign but are a draw away (in a home game against a team with nothing to play for) from being 2nd in the group. The draw may well be not enough for qualification but a win would be. It's not a bad position all things considered.

Yes, Holland are better than us but surely you concede that we have a better chance now than we may have had if we'd played them earlier?


Jim Farry was a very hard negotiator when it came to fixtures in qualifying sections. He wouldn't have agreed to those dates and places in a million years. (Didn't he have a 'tache? Maybe it's all to do with the 'tache.)

BH says we were too tight to pay for temporary flooodlights - £6,000. If we'd left the wives and girlfriends of the SFA suits behind on the trip to Macedonia, we could have paid for those lights with the money we saved on the chardonnay.

(If we'd left George Peat at home, and we could have made the Macedonians a goodwill gift of a full set of permanent floodlights - nothing but the best for George, y'know. And STILL made a profit.)

A dead rubber like Wednesday's will be for the Dutch can go either way - the Dutch may not bother their backsides and we win or draw, or they may relax and play for fun, to put on a show, in which case we are DEEP in the brown and smelly stuff. Because they can play.

But yup, I do agree that this is better than playing them in a match vital to their own progress in the competition.

Probably.


I think.



Maybe. :devil:

lapsedhibee
06-09-2009, 03:57 PM
Mmmmm....it is a tad complicated isn't it ?!?

Lets just go out and thump the Dutch then hope for the beast. :thumbsup:

In my heart of hearts do I think we will beat the Dutch ? NO :boo hoo:

Who is Rixy managing in the play-offs like? :dunno:

The Voice Of Reason
06-09-2009, 07:25 PM
Who is Rixy managing in the play-offs like? :dunno:

What ?!?!? :confused:

Happy to try and answer questions.....but I need to understand them first ?!? :wink:

Dashing Bob S
07-09-2009, 05:05 PM
Who is Rixy managing in the play-offs like? :dunno:

:faf:

HibbyKeith
07-09-2009, 09:58 PM
Dont think its ever a question of playing holland at a "good" time.

sorry but i dont buy into all this they wont be trying, they've already qualified bs.

when the dutch strips get pulled on it wont matter what situation their team are currently in with regard to group positon, they are all professional footballers playing for their country and if they are men at all PRIDE should be the motivation to win every game irrelevant of the situation.

Lets just get behind the scotland team and see what happens, optimistic we are, fools we are not. the dutch are a great side and its going to take a serious ammount of effort and a bit luck to take anything from the game.