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BEEJ
01-09-2009, 08:03 PM
I wasn't keen on Hughes becoming manager as I didn't want another former Hibs player at the helm. So far so good though and he's achieved a lot in two short months.

But whatever happens this year the club now needs to consolidate its position under one Manager over the course of at least a few seasons. One symptom of the managerial turmoil in recent years has been the activity in the transfer market. Here are the numbers of first team players who have exited the club in the last three years under successive managers:

Summer 2009 (Hughes/Mixu): 18 (+ one on a season long loan)
January 2009 (Mixu): 4
Summer 2008 (Mixu): 12 (+ one on a season long loan)
January 2008 (Mixu): 4
Summer 2007 (Collins): 14
January 2007 (Collins): 3

That's a total of 44 players out during the last three summer transfer windows and 55 players out over the last three seasons. That's equivalent to about a squad every 18 months. This can't go on.

So for the sake of the club, let's hope Hughes is in post for at least the next three seasons. :thumbsup:

Viva_Palmeiras
01-09-2009, 08:18 PM
IMO Agreed.

Hughes has more of a track record in the SPL and Management than his pred ecessors in terms of man-management, games and wheeling and dealing/transfers.

He doesn't need to buy into the brand of football that appeals to us, he's already pretty much there. So now he has a platform on which to learn, develop and build.

Dare I say there are cautions signs of the feel good factor returning, long may it continue. Hopefully we'll all have learned from the previous reigns.

Nothing is perfect and rarely is in Hibbeedom, I hope in Yogi we have a rough diamond of a manager. That can polish up nicely.

Love the (intended) mis-quote on the radio - "we threw the kitchen sink at them".

Hopefully he's beginning to turn those who questioned his hiring due to some of the incidents during games with Falkirk. Can we fast forward past that and on to to consider the weekend past where he showed up Saint Tony prior to, during and after the match...

The future should be bright, green and white (and Hibernian flavoured)

matty_f
01-09-2009, 08:59 PM
I wasn't keen on Hughes becoming manager as I didn't want another former Hibs player at the helm. So far so good though and he's achieved a lot in two short months.

But whatever happens this year the club now needs to consolidate its position under one Manager over the course of at least a few seasons. One symptom of the managerial turmoil in recent years has been the activity in the transfer market. Here are the numbers of first team players who have exited the club in the last three years under successive managers:

Summer 2009 (Hughes/Mixu): 18 (+ one on a season long loan)
January 2009 (Mixu): 4
Summer 2008 (Mixu): 12 (+ one on a season long loan)
January 2008 (Mixu): 4
Summer 2007 (Collins): 14
January 2007 (Collins): 3

That's a total of 44 players out during the last three summer transfer windows and 55 players out over the last three seasons. That's equivalent to about a squad every 18 months. This can't go on.

So for the sake of the club, let's hope Hughes is in post for at least the next three seasons. :thumbsup:

:top marks Totally agree with that. Had we had the stability over the last 2 seasons we'd be in a much healthier position, IMHO.

The way I see it, we should be looking to strengthen one, maybe two positions tops each window, and building a team. We can't continue with wholesale changes to the squad every season.

It's early days, but hopefully this is the start of the squad that will take us through the next few seasons, progressively getting better and better.

Gerard
01-09-2009, 09:03 PM
:top marks Totally agree with that. Had we had the stability over the last 2 seasons we'd be in a much healthier position, IMHO.

The way I see it, we should be looking to strengthen one, maybe two positions tops each window, and building a team. We can't continue with wholesale changes to the squad every season.

It's early days, but hopefully this is the start of the squad that will take us through the next few seasons, progressively getting better and better.

John Hughes deserves at least 3 years as manager. Lets hope that he is the one that wins the SC:wink:
G

jacomo
01-09-2009, 09:37 PM
John Hughes deserves at least 3 years as manager. Lets hope that he is the one that wins the SC:wink:
G

It's not about setting out a time frame now, but recognising the need for a long term plan.

I think Yogi needs the confidence to sacrifice short term results for long term gain... and we need to be patient. There is real potential at Hibs now, it feels like things are falling into place at last.

Riordans Boots
01-09-2009, 09:41 PM
John Hughes deserves at least 3 years as manager. Lets hope that he is the one that wins the SC:wink:
G


Amen :agree:

monktonharp
01-09-2009, 09:48 PM
John Hughes deserves at least 3 years as manager. Lets hope that he is the one that wins the SC:wink:
Gwas it not Mowbray that said"managers usually have a shelf life of 3 years":wink: we can always slag Yogi,if he moves on,before delivering said cup:dizzy:

Gatecrasher
01-09-2009, 09:54 PM
I wasn't keen on Hughes becoming manager as I didn't want another former Hibs player at the helm. So far so good though and he's achieved a lot in two short months.

But whatever happens this year the club now needs to consolidate its position under one Manager over the course of at least a few seasons. One symptom of the managerial turmoil in recent years has been the activity in the transfer market. Here are the numbers of first team players who have exited the club in the last three years under successive managers:

Summer 2009 (Hughes/Mixu): 18 (+ one on a season long loan)
January 2009 (Mixu): 4
Summer 2008 (Mixu): 12 (+ one on a season long loan)
January 2008 (Mixu): 4
Summer 2007 (Collins): 14
January 2007 (Collins): 3

That's a total of 44 players out during the last three summer transfer windows and 55 players out over the last three seasons. That's equivalent to about a squad every 18 months. This can't go on.

So for the sake of the club, let's hope Hughes is in post for at least the next three seasons. :thumbsup:

good post :agree:

thats what i think yogi is up to earier he was quoted to be saying he isnt going to bring in players for the sake of it and wont sign players unless he thinks they will bring something to the squad, there have been a lot of commings and goings at ER the last few years and i think yogi is the man to bring it.

007 Mickey Weir
01-09-2009, 09:59 PM
totally agree! yogi has brought a little of the 'feel good' factor back in a short space. A bit like Mogga did. He is respected by all, and seems to know what he is doing. We as fans just need to be patient. As there will be a few bumps on the road to success. All hail Sir Yogi!! :thumbsup:

Gerard
01-09-2009, 09:59 PM
was it not Mowbray that said"managers usually have a shelf life of 3 years":wink: we can always slag Yogi,if he moves on,before delivering said cup:dizzy:

JH was manager at Falkirk for 6 years, perhaps he may do 6 year at Hibs:wink:
G

jakedance
01-09-2009, 10:28 PM
was it not Mowbray that said"managers usually have a shelf life of 3 years":wink: we can always slag Yogi,if he moves on,before delivering said cup:dizzy:

Aye Mowbray would say that though wouldn't he. I doubt Ferguson or Wenger would agree with him. I've used Guy Roix as an axample before. He built Auxerre up from nothing. If Yogi is successful I hope he sticks around for many years to really make something of the club. That's got to be more fullfilling than Mowbrays approach of changing up first chance he gets.

I can buy the concept that players move to further their careers but that doesn't necessarily apply to managers. They should stay in the job until they can't make the club any better. Mowbray could have achieved a lot more at Hibs, he just chose not to.

monktonharp
01-09-2009, 10:46 PM
Aye Mowbray would say that though wouldn't he. I doubt Ferguson or Wenger would agree with him. I've used Guy Roix as an axample before. He built Auxerre up from nothing. If Yogi is successful I hope he sticks around for many years to really make something of the club. That's got to be more fullfilling than Mowbrays approach of changing up first chance he gets.

I can buy the concept that players move to further their careers but that doesn't necessarily apply to managers. They should stay in the job until they can't make the club any better. Mowbray could have achieved a lot more at Hibs, he just chose not to.I certainly hope Yogi is succesfull too! like most Hibernian fans on here,i'd imagine:dunno:and,are you forgetting that Mowbray did say that he'd taken the team as far as he could? and also,I can see absolutely no similies,re-ManU./Arsenal/Hibernian when it comes to finances in place to bring success. but hey,it's all about opinions. Mowbray is now at a club,that is one of our rivals and he obviously left Hibs to get himself there:wink: btw,I
do think he should have won us something before he left,but not before he had the audacity to leave.

matty_f
01-09-2009, 10:54 PM
Aye Mowbray would say that though wouldn't he. I doubt Ferguson or Wenger would agree with him. I've used Guy Roix as an axample before. He built Auxerre up from nothing. If Yogi is successful I hope he sticks around for many years to really make something of the club. That's got to be more fullfilling than Mowbrays approach of changing up first chance he gets.

I can buy the concept that players move to further their careers but that doesn't necessarily apply to managers. They should stay in the job until they can't make the club any better. Mowbray could have achieved a lot more at Hibs, he just chose not to.

:agree: I agree with all of that.

When you look at the nick of Falkirk when Yogi took over, and then compare it to the club he left, it's night and day.

Hibs are a massive club relative to the SPL. I don't think people appreciate how big a deal Hibs are until they see the club in close quarters.

With the exception of the East Stand, Hibs have everything in place to be a successful club. If Yogi can realise his own potential at the club, he will go a long way to realising Hibernian's with it.

We need a manager that can take the club from it's present position and take it forward.

jakedance
01-09-2009, 10:55 PM
I certainly hope Yogi is succesfull too! like most Hibernian fans on here,i'd imagine:dunno:and,are you forgetting that Mowbray did say that he'd taken the team as far as he could? and also,I can see absolutely no similies,re-ManU./Arsenal/Hibernian when it comes to finances in place to bring success. but hey,it's all about opinions. Mowbray is now at a club,that is one of our rivals and he obviously left Hibs to get himself there:wink: btw,I
do think he should have won us something before he left,but not before he had the audacity to leave.

Mowbray won nothing, didn't establish us as a third force let alone challenging for the league. It was good while it lasted but when he left we were more or less back where we started. The same could be said for his time at West Brom. I'm realistic about Hibs but it is plausible that we could pull away from the rest of the mince making up the numbers in Scottish fitba.

The comparison with Man Utd and Arsenal isn't that far fetched. United hadn't won anything for years. Arsenal weren't that much better. Auxerre were a tiny club before Roix built them up and they ended up in the Champions League.

jakedance
01-09-2009, 11:06 PM
I don't think I was clear in my last post. What Mowbray did achieve was some raised expectations and a significant contribution to the gradual improvements we're seeing at the club. My point is that he didn't achieve, as he said, everything he could at the club. If he did he's half the manager a lot of people take him to.

It will take years to take us where we all we want to be and hopefully Yogi will be more interested in that challenge than moving on after some short term success (like Mcleish and Mowbray).

majorhibs
01-09-2009, 11:42 PM
We just might, if were lucky, be onto a manager who can do a bit but with the history he has and where he and his family are from might want to stay around a while, Thats the dream, anyways!

borders.cabbage
02-09-2009, 12:03 AM
That's a total of 44 players out during the last three summer transfer windows and 55 players out over the last three seasons. That's equivalent to about a squad every 18 months. This can't go on.


A shocking statistic, but this is just a symptom of modern day football. Increased player power post Bosman, less loyalty, TV deals going tits up, managers and players jumping ship to the average English sides as soon as a few readies are thrown in their faces.

Dashing Bob S
02-09-2009, 06:45 AM
Hughes's transfer policy is spot on. He's got a smaller squad, with better balance and quality and he's making room to give young players a chance rather than stacking up the wage bill with fringe players who aren't good enough.

Stability? The only desirable stability comes when you get consistent positive performance and results. It's the manager's duty to keep improving his squad to that end. Not bothered how many comings and goings there are as long as results continue to get better.

Crazyhorse
02-09-2009, 08:20 AM
Aye Mowbray would say that though wouldn't he. I doubt Ferguson or Wenger would agree with him. I've used Guy Roix as an axample before. He built Auxerre up from nothing. If Yogi is successful I hope he sticks around for many years to really make something of the club. That's got to be more fullfilling than Mowbrays approach of changing up first chance he gets.

I can buy the concept that players move to further their careers but that doesn't necessarily apply to managers. They should stay in the job until they can't make the club any better. Mowbray could have achieved a lot more at Hibs, he just chose not to.

That's a good point. Should also be noted that the great managers have usually been able to build several successful teams. They have usually gone through periods were they have had to rebuild squads and have been supported during that process.

Cocaine&Caviar
02-09-2009, 08:30 AM
How many of these 44 can we name?

1. Johannson,
2. Van Zanten,
3. Deane,
4. Wilson,
5. Campbell,
6. Gray,
7. Rosa,
8. McNeil,
9. Fletcher
10. Jones
11. O'Brien
12. Shiels
13. Chisolm
14. Morais
15. Gatheussi
16. Buezelin
17. Donaldson
18. Cropley.
19. Sproule
20. Brown
21. Thomson
22. Stewart
23. Murphy
24. Whittaker
25. Martis
26. S. Brown
27. Jonelit
28. Pinau
29. Szamo
30. Keenan
31. Yantorno
32. Tolmie
33. Courier
34. Malkowski
35. Noubissie
36. Zarabi
37. Killen
38. Kerr
39. Sowunmi
40. Glass
41. Notman
42. Morrow
43. Ayre
44. Lynch
45. McCaffrey
46. Shields
47. A. Brown
48. Grof
49. K. McDonald
50. Canning

Im stumped after that?

BT58
02-09-2009, 08:38 AM
malkowski[ahem the so called polish goalie]
mickael antoine courier[the guy whos at dundee/hamilton]
thats 2 for a start
hb

Sergio sledge
02-09-2009, 08:50 AM
How many of these 44 can we name?

1. Johannson,
2. Van Zanten,
3. Deane,
4. Wilson,
5. Campbell,
6. Gray,
7. Rosa,
8. McNeil,
9. Fletcher
10. Jones
11. O'Brien
12. Shiels
13. Chisolm
14. Morais
15. Gatheussi
16. Buezelin
17. Donaldson
18. Cropley.
19. Sproule
20. Brown
21. Thomson
22. Stewart
23. Murphy
24. Whittaker
25. Martis
26. S. Brown
27. Jonelit
28. Pinau
29. Szamo
30. Keenan
31. Yantorno
32. Tolmie
33. Courier
34. Malkowski
35. Noubissie
36. Zarabi
37. Killen


Im stumped after that?

I'm presuming Brian Kerr is unseen in that list? :wink:

Dashing Bob S
02-09-2009, 09:38 AM
I'm presuming Brian Kerr is unseen in that list? :wink:

How could we have missed him? A major oversight.

BEEJ
02-09-2009, 12:14 PM
How many of these 44 can we name?

Im stumped after that?
I'll list the names later this evening.

:cool2:

Cocaine&Caviar
02-09-2009, 12:59 PM
38 down, just 6 to go...

Sam Morrow?
Stephen Glass?

HibeeUnderwood
02-09-2009, 01:04 PM
38 down, just 6 to go...

Sam Morrow?
Stephen Glass?

Thomas Sowumni, Keegan Ayre, Sean Lynch, Dermot McCaffrey and Steven Notman

Cocaine&Caviar
02-09-2009, 01:08 PM
A rediculous number of players...

dangermouse
02-09-2009, 01:43 PM
Jinky

BEEJ
02-09-2009, 04:46 PM
How many of these 44 can we name?

Im stumped after that?


I'll list the names later this evening.

:cool2:
And the list is as follows....

Summer 2009 (Hughes/Mixu): 18 (+ one on a season long loan)
Jonatan Johansson
David van Zanten
Patrick Deane
Jack Wilson
Joe Keenan
Ewan Moyes (season long loan)
Ross Campbell
Jordan Cropley
Rob Jones
Alan O'Brien
Steven Fletcher
Ross Chisolm
Denes Rosa
Grzegorz Szamotulski
Andrew McNeil
Steve Pinau
David Gray
Fabian Yantorno
Blair Tolmie

January 2009 (Mixu): 4
David Grof
Dean Shiels
Thierry Gattheussi
Filipe Morais

Summer 2008 (Mixu): 12 (+ one on a season long loan)
Merouane Zemmamma (season long loan)
Brian Kerr
Martin Canning
Zibby Malkowski
Sean Lynch
Patrick Mailey
Clayton Donaldson
Guillaime Beuzelin
Abderouf Zarabi
Patrick Noubissie
Dermot McCaffrey
Mikael-Antoine Curier
Keegan Ayre

January 2008 (Mixu): 4
Ally Brown
Torben Joneleit
Steven Notman
David Murphy

Summer 2007 (Collins): 14
Steven Whittaker
Stephen Glass
Kevin McDonald
Shelton Martis
Jay Shields
Ivan Sproule
Sam Morrow
Thomas Sowumni
Simon Brown
Jamie McLuskey
Jonathan Baillie
Chris Killen
Scott Brown
Michael Stewart

January 2007 (Collins): 3
Kevin Thomson
Oumar Konde
Amadou Konte

A total of 44 players out during the last three summer transfer windows and 55 players out over the last three seasons.

This level of transfer activity certainly offers no platform for the longer-term development of a team. Time we settled down to more normal levels of 'staff turnover'. :wink:

HibeeUnderwood
02-09-2009, 05:01 PM
And the list is as follows....

Summer 2009 (Hughes/Mixu): 18 (+ one on a season long loan)
Jonatan Johansson
David van Zanten
Patrick Deane
Jack Wilson
Joe Keenan
Ewan Moyes (season long loan)
Ross Campbell
Jordan Cropley
Rob Jones
Alan O'Brien
Steven Fletcher
Ross Chisolm
Denes Rosa
Grzegorz Szamotulski
Andrew McNeil
Steve Pinau
David Gray
Fabian Yantorno
Blair Tolmie

January 2009 (Mixu): 4
David Grof
Dean Shiels
Thierry Gattheussi
Filipe Morais

Summer 2008 (Mixu): 12 (+ one on a season long loan)
Merouane Zemmamma (season long loan)
Brian Kerr
Martin Canning
Zibby Malkowski
Sean Lynch
Patrick Mailey
Clayton Donaldson
Guillaime Beuzelin
Abderouf Zarabi
Patrick Noubissie
Dermot McCaffrey
Mikael-Antoine Curier
Keegan Ayre

January 2008 (Mixu): 4
Ally Brown
Torben Joneleit
Steven Notman
David Murphy

Summer 2007 (Collins): 14
Steven Whittaker
Stephen Glass
Kevin McDonald
Shelton Martis
Jay Shields
Ivan Sproule
Sam Morrow
Thomas Sowumni
Simon Brown
Jamie McLuskey
Jonathan Baillie
Chris Killen
Scott Brown
Michael Stewart

January 2007 (Collins): 3
Kevin Thomson
Oumar Konde
Amadou Konte

A total of 44 players out during the last three summer transfer windows and 55 players out over the last three seasons.

This level of transfer activity certainly offers no platform for the longer-term development of a team. Time we settled down to more normal levels of 'staff turnover'. :wink:

That is a ridiculous amount of players to leave in that period of time!

I'm sure that exlcuding the ones we wanted to keep and got good money for, we could benefit from at least one player from every window who we got rid of. Its all down to teams wanting to keep small squads and low wage budgets. In an injury crisis, thats no good! I'm sure we could have easily kept JJ, DVZ and Keenan as fringe players. Thats what Mixu did with players like Gathuessi and Morais last season, he didn't play them and fortunately we didn't suffer an injury crisis for the need to play them, but they were there if we needed them! they could have easily left at the same time as Canning and Kerr did. Also being no reserve league this year means that fringe players will get no game time whatsoever unless its a bounce match thats played at the training ground!

Cocaine&Caviar
02-09-2009, 09:26 PM
I'm sure we could have easily kept JJ, DVZ and Keenan as fringe players. Thats what Mixu did with players like Gathuessi and Morais last season, he didn't play them and fortunately we didn't suffer an injury crisis for the need to play them, but they were there if we needed them! they could have easily left at the same time as Canning and Kerr did. Also being no reserve league this year means that fringe players will get no game time whatsoever unless its a bounce match thats played at the training ground!

I agree, but i think if an injury crisis should occur, we should have faith in Welsh who will be filling Keenan's spot, Byrne for JJ and Wotherspoon potetnially for DVZ.

matty_f
02-09-2009, 09:36 PM
And the list is as follows....

Summer 2009 (Hughes/Mixu): 18 (+ one on a season long loan)
Jonatan Johansson
David van Zanten
Patrick Deane
Jack Wilson
Joe Keenan
Ewan Moyes (season long loan)
Ross Campbell
Jordan Cropley
Rob Jones
Alan O'Brien
Steven Fletcher
Ross Chisolm
Denes Rosa
Grzegorz Szamotulski
Andrew McNeil
Steve Pinau
David Gray
Fabian Yantorno
Blair Tolmie

January 2009 (Mixu): 4
David Grof
Dean Shiels
Thierry Gattheussi
Filipe Morais

Summer 2008 (Mixu): 12 (+ one on a season long loan)
Merouane Zemmamma (season long loan)
Brian Kerr
Martin Canning
Zibby Malkowski
Sean Lynch
Patrick Mailey
Clayton Donaldson
Guillaime Beuzelin
Abderouf Zarabi
Patrick Noubissie
Dermot McCaffrey
Mikael-Antoine Curier
Keegan Ayre

January 2008 (Mixu): 4
Ally Brown
Torben Joneleit
Steven Notman
David Murphy

Summer 2007 (Collins): 14
Steven Whittaker
Stephen Glass
Kevin McDonald
Shelton Martis
Jay Shields
Ivan Sproule
Sam Morrow
Thomas Sowumni
Simon Brown
Jamie McLuskey
Jonathan Baillie
Chris Killen
Scott Brown
Michael Stewart

January 2007 (Collins): 3
Kevin Thomson
Oumar Konde
Amadou Konte

A total of 44 players out during the last three summer transfer windows and 55 players out over the last three seasons.

This level of transfer activity certainly offers no platform for the longer-term development of a team. Time we settled down to more normal levels of 'staff turnover'. :wink:

:agree: Hopefully we'll see Yogi build a team. The squad just now doesn't need to be dismantled. There's good scope to now bring through youngsters gradually and in the right games, while maintaining a fairly solid first 11.

We should be looking now for one or two key players coming in to strengthen the first team each transfer window now, IMHO.

BEEJ
02-09-2009, 09:49 PM
We should be looking now for one or two key players coming in to strengthen the first team each transfer window now, IMHO.
Realistically in a summer window you should expect maybe 5 or 6 players to move on. For one thing, if we are going to be promoting a few youngsters from the U-19s each year then someone has to leave the squad to make way for them.

Still a far cry from 14 - 18 departures.

In the January window, yes you should expect no more than a couple of key changes in the squad ..... except January 2010, of course, when Yogi might have a bit of catching up to do. :I'm waiti

:greengrin

monktonharp
02-09-2009, 10:15 PM
it is amazing and somewhat annoying about the amount of players that have gone through the books over the last 3 years,and some were top class players. but,are we through the woods yet? financially that is. all clubs are selling clubs,if the price is right and all players want mair money (and managers:wink:) but are HFC getting near the top of the wage list in Scotland? not including OF of course, but the signs are good with Stokes joining and Yogi talking up the club's situation. here's hoping.