Conspiracy Theories

[GC]

I was reading an article in the Telegraph about the top 30 conspiracy theories yesterday and some...well let's be honest most are reading like they were thought up in the Royal Ed. It did get me thinking though.

What would you say is your favourite, whether that be because you believe in a certain one or because it is so far out there that is just makes you laugh.

[--------]

I'm very fond of the "Elvis Lives!" stuff.

First, the idea that Elvis presely would fake his own death so that he could work incognito at the checkout in a South Carolina Wal-Mart or in a car-wash in Pahrump Nevada requires a major degree of intellectual challenge. Even for Americans.

Second, if he's going to fake his own death, why not do a Reggie Perrin? Why choose to have the whole world believe that you died in a pharmaceutically-fuelled, trousers-round-the-ankles, defecation-associated cardiac implosion?

Talk about falling off the pedestal?

"Say, buddy - how DOD the great man die?" "Well, he filled himself full of assorted medications and crapped himself to death...."

NOT how I'd want to be remembered. :devil:



The "Paul MCartney is dead" is one i personally believe.

If it LOOKS dead, SOUNDS dead, and if its talent died decades ago - then I reckon it's, well, DEAD. :rolleyes:

And if it isn't true, it should be. :devil:

[Phil D. Rolls]

Here's a topical one - they are showing a guy on the news who they say is a dying Al Megrahi. Or is it?

[LiverpoolHibs]

Where's Riz when you need him?!

I think the reason people want to believe in them is by far the most interesting thing about conspiracy theories.

People who go in for them wholesale tend to have the bizzarest ideas not just about certain events but about how politics, economics and society work as a whole - they should be prescribed all three volumes of Capital in an attempt to cure them...

And then there are the events that are every inch the rampant fantasies of your average internet nut-job and then turn out to be completely true Operation Gladio, the Propaganda Due Masonic Lodge and the Bologna Massacre springs to mind. Oh, and Operation Northwoods.

[RyeSloan]

Fake moon landing is my favourite....sure it's possible or even likely that they might have wnated to fake it once but considering the US went what 4 or 5 times that's gonna be one hell of a cover up!!!

[Green Mikey]

Where's Riz when you need him?!

I think the reason people want to believe in them is by far the most interesting thing about conspiracy theories.

People who go in for them wholesale tend to have the bizzarest ideas not just about certain events but about how politics, economics and society work as a whole - they should be prescribed all three volumes of Capital in an attempt to cure them...

And then there are the events that are every inch the rampant fantasies of your average internet nut-job and then turn out to be completely true Operation Gladio, the Propaganda Due Masonic Lodge and the Bologna Massacre springs to mind. Oh, and Operation Northwoods.

:agree:

People dream up the most outrageous conspriracy theories that are much more impossible to believe than the event they claim didn't happen. It is much more ridiculous that the moon landings were fabricated than the simple fact that they did actually happen.

Don't know about prescribing Capital...that might make it worse...I would give them a copy of the Wealth of Nations:wink::wink:

[GC]

I'm very fond of the "Elvis Lives!" stuff.

First, the idea that Elvis presely would fake his own death so that he could work incognito at the checkout in a South Carolina Wal-Mart or in a car-wash in Pahrump Nevada requires a major degree of intellectual challenge. Even for Americans.

Second, if he's going to fake his own death, why not do a Reggie Perrin? Why choose to have the whole world believe that you died in a pharmaceutically-fuelled, trousers-round-the-ankles, defecation-associated cardiac implosion?

Talk about falling off the pedestal?

"Say, buddy - how DOD the great man die?" "Well, he filled himself full of assorted medications and crapped himself to death...."

NOT how I'd want to be remembered. :devil:



The "Paul MCartney is dead" is one i personally believe.

If it LOOKS dead, SOUNDS dead, and if its talent died decades ago - then I reckon it's, well, DEAD. :rolleyes:

And if it isn't true, it should be. :devil:

The Macca one is definately one of the most far fetched.


Where's Riz when you need him?!

I think the reason people want to believe in them is by far the most interesting thing about conspiracy theories.

People who go in for them wholesale tend to have the bizzarest ideas not just about certain events but about how politics, economics and society work as a whole - they should be prescribed all three volumes of Capital in an attempt to cure them...

And then there are the events that are every inch the rampant fantasies of your average internet nut-job and then turn out to be completely true Operation Gladio, the Propaganda Due Masonic Lodge and the Bologna Massacre springs to mind. Oh, and Operation Northwoods.

Ahh yeah, I read this one aswell. CIA mind control experiment, there were of people who commented on the bottom of the article however who claimed that this was no longer an theory, the CIA had all but admitted the experiment if documents released a few years back - is this true?

The other one that stood out was the "Black Helicopter" theory, American militia believe that these mysterious black helicopters that were spotted in America were really the UN who were/are planning an invasion.

Similar theory on these shores but we're not getting invaded by the UN, just alians instead:faf:

[LiverpoolHibs]

:agree:

People dream up the most outrageous conspriracy theories that are much more impossible to believe than the event they claim didn't happen. It is much more ridiculous that the moon landings were fabricated than the simple fact that they did actually happen.

Yup, Occam's Razor never seems to be particularly well thought of by them...


Don't know about prescribing Capital...that might make it worse...I would give them a copy of the Wealth of Nations:wink::wink:

Give them both! There'd probably have been no Capital without Wealth of Nations.

We all know which is the superior work mind... :wink:


Ahh yeah, I read this one aswell. CIA mind control experiment, there were of people who commented on the bottom of the article however who claimed that this was no longer an theory, the CIA had all but admitted the experiment if documents released a few years back - is this true?

Nah, that's not Operation Northwoods...

This was a planned 'false-flag' attack by the CIA on targets in the U.S. - suggested by the Joint Chiefs of Staff; the idea being that faked evidence would link the attacks to Castro and Cuba thereby building public support for a full-scale invasion of Cuba. Kennedy refused it.

[GC]

Nah, that's not Operation Northwoods...

This was a planned 'false-flag' attack by the CIA on targets in the U.S. - suggested by the Joint Chiefs of Staff; the idea being that faked evidence would link the attacks to Castro and Cuba thereby building public support for a full-scale invasion of Cuba. Kennedy refused it.

Yeah your right LH, different one, so many you know, I just can't keep up:greengrin

Here's the link anyway to the 30 theories, the one I'm on about is on there aswell.

Some crackers.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/3483477/The-30-greatest-conspiracy-theories-part-1.html

[Wembley67]

The ultimate in all conspiracies is the Bilderberg group...or is that really a conspiracy?? If you have the time (and you will need a lot of it) do some googling on this lovely band of people :devil:

I cannot be held responsible if you suddenly vanish off the face of the earth after doing your research :cool2:

[Betty Boop]

The Protocols of The Elders of Zion.

[LiverpoolHibs]

The ultimate in all conspiracies is the Bilderberg group...or is that really a conspiracy?? If you have the time (and you will need a lot of it) do some googling on this lovely band of people :devil:

I cannot be held responsible if you suddenly vanish off the face of the earth after doing your research :cool2:

That's pretty much the one I was referring to when I said,

'People who go in for them wholesale tend to have the bizzarest ideas not just about certain events but about how politics, economics and society work as a whole - they should be prescribed all three volumes of Capitalin an attempt to cure them...'

It's a very popular one at the moment.


The Protocols of The Elders of Zion.

:shocked:

[Wembley67]

That's pretty much the one I was referring to when I said,

'People who go in for them wholesale tend to have the bizzarest ideas not just about certain events but about how politics, economics and society work as a whole - they should be prescribed all three volumes of Capitalin an attempt to cure them...'

It's a very popular one at the moment.



:shocked:

I didn't read the whole thread apologies.

There is some cracking things if you trawl through a lot of the info on the net, kinda fries the brain a bit though - or is that what they want, mind control :confused:

[LiverpoolHibs]

I didn't read the whole thread apologies.

There is some cracking things if you trawl through a lot of the info on the net, kinda fries the brain a bit though - or is that what they want, mind control :confused:

I think I'd prefer the term 'clinically insane' (or maybe 'sadly misguided' if I'm being a bit nicer) to 'cracking'. :greengrin

[Wembley67]

I think I'd prefer the term 'clinically insane' (or maybe 'sadly misguided' if I'm being a bit nicer) to 'cracking'. :greengrin

I don't buy most of it but some it really makes sense. I'm considering giving my Uncle my login details and let him debate this with you as he knows this stuff inside out...albeit it bores the ***** out of me after about 6 hours on Christmas Day :greengrin

[(((Fergus)))]

I read a report on the BBC a few years ago that a couple of the guys supposedly on the 9/11 planes were still alive and working for companies in the Middle East, keen to clear their names. Story disappeared since then for some reason.

[Hibs Class]

I cannot believe it's taken almost 20 posts to mention the Glasgow Football Association's conspiracy (aided and abetted by all Scotland's referees, referees' assistants, weegie media, etc., etc.) to deny Hearts the league titles, etc. etc., they would otherwise have won :confused:

[--------]

The Protocols of The Elders of Zion.


Now THERE's an Awful Warning about what happens when people switch off their brains and listen to conspiracy theorists.

Harmless fun? I don't think so.

[hibsdaft]

one conspiracy theory i think has merit is Diana being assassinated.

personally i thought she was a non-entity not worth taking seriously but the way she died was highly suspicious.

one of the assassination methods used by security services (eg MI6 Saddam Hussein plot in Geneva that was reported a few years ago) for example is the car crash and for her crash to happen under a tunnel late at night (fewer witnesses), just as the CCTV gets switched off, with a car believed to have bashed hers (the white Fiat) that was never seen again after a massive car-hunt...

well, still not convinced anyone would be bothered to do it, but if she was assassinated then that would be exactly how they would carry out one method of doing it.

[hibsdaft]

i think conspiracy theories will become more and more popular in an age with poor political/ ideological understanding, and in an age were politics is increasingly personality driven.

i think we're already seeing this.

its the only way some people seem capable of explaining events that they disagree with in the absence often of good mainstream critical analysis (especially in the US).

[steakbake]

I read a report on the BBC a few years ago that a couple of the guys supposedly on the 9/11 planes were still alive and working for companies in the Middle East, keen to clear their names. Story disappeared since then for some reason.

I still fail to accept that 4 passenger jets can be hijacked in one of the most militarised societies in the world and flown into the pentagon and the world trade centre.

I also find it hard to accept that after the chaos and devastation, the fire and destruction, that the intact Saudi passports of two of the hijack pilots would be found lying largely undamaged on the ground below. I also find it hard to believe that passengers on flight 93 were able to make mobile calls to let their families know.

Anyhow, I don't think about it too much now, but after it all went down, I thought that it was possibly the single biggest act of theatre in human history.

[Betty Boop]

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/popup?id=2729440

Mother Nature crying! :boo hoo:

[sleeping giant]

I was reading an article in the Telegraph about the top 30 conspiracy theories yesterday and some...well let's be honest most are reading like they were thought up in the Royal Ed. It did get me thinking though.

What would you say is your favourite, whether that be because you believe in a certain one or because it is so far out there that is just makes you laugh.

I quite like the one about the leaders of the free world meeting up in a forest and chanting to a large owl while a "fake" sacrifice is carried out on the alter :rolleyes:
As if eh:greengrin

I also like the one about the elite goldsmiths who were permitted to loan out 10 times the amount of gold they had in store. Seemingly they were allowed to charge interest on this money that they just made up out of thin air.

Who would believe that stuff eh :cool2:


The one that is interesting me is the one about Gods son being the Sun.
Its interesting me that much that i can't even remember what the theory is called:greengrin

[J-C]

I used to believe in the moon landings conspiracy until I watched two programmes showing you could fake it. The first was on the Discovery channel and showed the difference between a fake and the real thing. Secondly on Mythbusters, they proved a flag behaves differently in a vacuum and foot print can be made on light moon dust when also in a vacuum.

[Green Mikey]

one conspiracy theory i think has merit is Diana being assassinated.

personally i thought she was a non-entity not worth taking seriously but the way she died was highly suspicious.

one of the assassination methods used by security services (eg MI6 Saddam Hussein plot in Geneva that was reported a few years ago) for example is the car crash and for her crash to happen under a tunnel late at night (fewer witnesses), just as the CCTV gets switched off, with a car believed to have bashed hers (the white Fiat) that was never seen again after a massive car-hunt...

well, still not convinced anyone would be bothered to do it, but if she was assassinated then that would be exactly how they would carry out one method of doing it.

Mr Daft, this is what I posted about earlier on this thread. It is much more implausible that Diana was murdered than taking the facts at face value.

IMO there is no conspiracy. Her driver was was speeding away from paparazzi whilst very drunk and then lost control in the tunnel. the conspiracy is built from conjecture and coincidence the real facts have been reported.

[Tomsk]

I still fail to accept that 4 passenger jets can be hijacked in one of the most militarised societies in the world and flown into the pentagon and the world trade centre.

I also find it hard to accept that after the chaos and devastation, the fire and destruction, that the intact Saudi passports of two of the hijack pilots would be found lying largely undamaged on the ground below. I also find it hard to believe that passengers on flight 93 were able to make mobile calls to let their families know.

Anyhow, I don't think about it too much now, but after it all went down, I thought that it was possibly the single biggest act of theatre in human history.

So what alternative can you accept?

[Sir David Gray]

I still fail to accept that 4 passenger jets can be hijacked in one of the most militarised societies in the world and flown into the pentagon and the world trade centre.

I also find it hard to accept that after the chaos and devastation, the fire and destruction, that the intact Saudi passports of two of the hijack pilots would be found lying largely undamaged on the ground below. I also find it hard to believe that passengers on flight 93 were able to make mobile calls to let their families know.

Anyhow, I don't think about it too much now, but after it all went down, I thought that it was possibly the single biggest act of theatre in human history.

Is this actually a serious post? :confused:

[Twa Cairpets]

I still fail to accept that 4 passenger jets can be hijacked in one of the most militarised societies in the world and flown into the pentagon and the world trade centre.

I also find it hard to accept that after the chaos and devastation, the fire and destruction, that the intact Saudi passports of two of the hijack pilots would be found lying largely undamaged on the ground below. I also find it hard to believe that passengers on flight 93 were able to make mobile calls to let their families know.

Anyhow, I don't think about it too much now, but after it all went down, I thought that it was possibly the single biggest act of theatre in human history.

"...and in the distance, the gentle flapping of white coats was heard from the nice men coming to take Mr Saltire to his special room..."

[Betty Boop]

I still fail to accept that 4 passenger jets can be hijacked in one of the most militarised societies in the world and flown into the pentagon and the world trade centre.

I also find it hard to accept that after the chaos and devastation, the fire and destruction, that the intact Saudi passports of two of the hijack pilots would be found lying largely undamaged on the ground below. I also find it hard to believe that passengers on flight 93 were able to make mobile calls to let their families know.

Anyhow, I don't think about it too much now, but after it all went down, I thought that it was possibly the single biggest act of theatre in human history.
http://www.voltairenet.org/article160636.html

[RyeSloan]

I used to believe in the moon landings conspiracy until I watched two programmes showing you could fake it. The first was on the Discovery channel and showed the difference between a fake and the real thing. Secondly on Mythbusters, they proved a flag behaves differently in a vacuum and foot print can be made on light moon dust when also in a vacuum.

I'm confused you used to believe it was fake then watched two progs that showed you it could be faked but now you don't believe it???

Anyway it's nonsense...as I said before you fake something once, not 4 or 5 times including a video of someone driving a buggy around a 'simulated' moon!

As an aside I saw I very interesting prog on just how they built the moon buggy...was quite amazing to see just how many people and companies were involved in trying to design the thing but it was the cunningly amazing way they managed to fold it all up to fit into the lander that was most impressive!

[Danderhall Hibs]

Has anybody mentioned the one about the papers printing a negative story about a non-OF team prior to the Old Firm playing a non-OF team?

[steakbake]

So what alternative can you accept?

Somewhere between the official state authorised version of events and the wildest conspiracy theory about 9/11 lies the truth.

[steakbake]

Is this actually a serious post? :confused:

Yes. I am serious.

[Tomsk]

Somewhere between the official state authorised version of events and the wildest conspiracy theory about 9/11 lies the truth.

Thanks for clearing that up.

I find myself better informed but none the wiser.

[steakbake]

Thanks for clearing that up.

I find myself better informed but none the wiser.

You're welcome. I'm can't possibly set out a whole scenario of what I think might actually have happened, but there are several things which lead me to doubt the official line or what has become the commonly accepted version of events. I suppose the truth may out but we'll be in our cold, cold graves before it does.

[hibsdaft]

Mr Daft, this is what I posted about earlier on this thread. It is much more implausible that Diana was murdered than taking the facts at face value.

IMO there is no conspiracy. Her driver was was speeding away from paparazzi whilst very drunk and then lost control in the tunnel. the conspiracy is built from conjecture and coincidence the real facts have been reported.

as i say i am not saying it WAS a conspiracy, just that if someone did want to get rid of her that thats how they'd probably do it.

[Tomsk]

You're welcome. I'm can't possibly set out a whole scenario of what I think might actually have happened, but there are several things which lead me to doubt the official line or what has become the commonly accepted version of events. I suppose the truth may out but we'll be in our cold, cold graves before it does.

If all the same to you I will just continue to believe the entirely plausible and logically coherent official version of events.

[steakbake]

If all the same to you I will just continue to believe the entirely plausible and logically coherent official version of events.

By all means, sir. I will still continue to see gaping holes in the official account and have my doubts.

[J-C]

I'm confused you used to believe it was fake then watched two progs that showed you it could be faked but now you don't believe it???

Anyway it's nonsense...as I said before you fake something once, not 4 or 5 times including a video of someone driving a buggy around a 'simulated' moon!

As an aside I saw I very interesting prog on just how they built the moon buggy...was quite amazing to see just how many people and companies were involved in trying to design the thing but it was the cunningly amazing way they managed to fold it all up to fit into the lander that was most impressive!


I don't see how you can be confused. :confused:

I used to be one of those people who thought it was faked because of the evidence.............flag fluttering, varying shadows, shoe prints etc.

Now after watching a couple of programmes that have done tests and shown that it is impossible to fake it, I have changed my opinions of the moon landings, not at all confusing.:confused:

[Tomsk]

By all means, sir. I will still continue to see gaping holes in the official account and have my doubts.

I trust these holes are gaping somewhat wider than the two examples you gave earlier -- the barely damaged passports and the mobile phone calls?

Please, please tell me you have something more than a couple of charred passports and a mobile phone bill!

But we are getting ahead of ourselves. Before we come to your evidence, tell us, if the official version of events is not the truth, what is the truth?

Dare I ask, who is actually responsible for the outrages? I ask that question fervently hoping you're not going to tell us that it was anybody even remotely involved in the US administration, its securty services or miltary forces.

[Killiehibbie]

I trust these holes are gaping somewhat wider than the two examples you gave earlier -- the barely damaged passports and the mobile phone calls?

Please, please tell me you have something more than a couple of charred passports and a mobile phone bill!

But we are getting ahead of ourselves. Before we come to your evidence, tell us, if the official version of events is not the truth, what is the truth?

Dare I ask, who is actually responsible for the outrages? I ask that question fervently hoping you're not going to tell us that it was anybody even remotely involved in the US administration, its securty services or miltary forces.

Do you not know it was the CIA? They're responsible for the majority of the illegal drugs in the US as well just to keep the blacks occupied and stop them getting involved in things that might upset the establishment.

[Sir David Gray]

Yes. I am serious.

I take it you are of the opinion that 9/11 was, at least to some extent, an inside job and orchestrated by the US government as a way of justifying the subsequent War on Terror?

[LiverpoolHibs]

One that there doesn't really seem to be much theorising around when I think there probably should be is the assassination of Martin Luther King.

I'd be very, very surprised if there wasn't at least an element of State involvement in that.

[Twa Cairpets]

By all means, sir. I will still continue to see gaping holes in the official account and have my doubts.

Have a read of this (http://www.debunking911.com/index.html), and see if you still harbour your frankly bonkers ideas.

[steakbake]

I take it you are of the opinion that 9/11 was, at least to some extent, an inside job and orchestrated by the US government as a way of justifying the subsequent War on Terror?

Not necessarily, though i do think the war on terror is a total farce.

---------- Post added at 09:39 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:38 AM ----------


Have a read of this (http://www.debunking911.com/index.html), and see if you still harbour your frankly bonkers ideas.

Ooh a "debunking" site. That will be a fair and impartial view of the situation.

[hibsbollah]

Define a 'conspiracy theory'. Isnt it just a label saying 'your interpretation is unbelievable'? What is really bonkers is to believe the manufactured and pre-packaged version of events presented to the 'public' is automatically 'the truth'.

[Twa Cairpets]

Ooh a "debunking" site. That will be a fair and impartial view of the situation.

Whereas of course your interpretation is based on half-baked interpretations, pre-conceived prejudices, un-critical acceptance of misinformation and selective trawling of relevant "facts".

Here is a typical argument from a conspiracy theorist.

"Well, its has been shown that "X" is inexplicable"
"Actually, it is clearly explicable by "Y" and "Z"
"Well, you would say that, wouldnt you..."

The only possible way you can make a personal judgement is on the basis of analysis of evidence - on both sides. The overwhelming evidence surrounding 9/11 is that Muslim hijackers flew jets into the twin towers on their own volition.

[steakbake]

Whereas of course your interpretation is based on half-baked interpretations, pre-conceived prejudices, un-critical acceptance of misinformation and selective trawling of relevant "facts".

Here is a typical argument from a conspiracy theorist.

"Well, its has been shown that "X" is inexplicable"
"Actually, it is clearly explicable by "Y" and "Z"
"Well, you would say that, wouldnt you..."

The only possible way you can make a personal judgement is on the basis of analysis of evidence - on both sides. The overwhelming evidence surrounding 9/11 is that Muslim hijackers flew jets into the twin towers on their own volition.

That's me told.

[Twa Cairpets]

That's me told.

Yes. It is.

[steakbake]

Yes. It is.

Or is it??

[Twa Cairpets]

Or is it??

Yes

[Ed De Gramo]

I agree with blacksaltire :agree:

This is a massive cover up by America...a move to get the people of USA fully behind Bush's plans for war

Too much doesnae add up

[Twa Cairpets]

I agree with blacksaltire :agree:

This is a massive cover up by America...a move to get the people of USA fully behind Bush's plans for war

Too much doesnae add up

Go on then, indulge me.

Give me a few f'rinstances of "the massive cover up" and what in particular "doesnae add up".

[--------]

I agree with blacksaltire :agree:

This is a massive cover up by America...a move to get the people of USA fully behind Bush's plans for war

Too much doesnae add up


I agree with TwoCarpets - and that's after having looked at a number of the 'conspiracy' arguments. Most conspiracy theories are half-baked attention-seeking. there are a lotta loonies in the US, and not all of them are in the Republican Party.

[RoslinInstHibby]

I agree with blacksaltire :agree:

This is a massive cover up by America...a move to get the people of USA fully behind Bush's plans for war

Too much doesnae add up


do you genuinly believe that though...or are you trying to be controversial?:wink:

willing to listen or read any proof that you may have of things not adding up?

[Twa Cairpets]

I agree with TwoCarpets - and that's after having looked at a number of the 'conspiracy' arguments. Most conspiracy theories are half-baked attention-seeking. there are a lotta loonies in the US, and not all of them are in the Republican Party.

I suppose it had to happen sometime...:wink:

[LiverpoolHibs]

I agree with blacksaltire :agree:

This is a massive cover up by America...a move to get the people of USA fully behind Bush's plans for war

Too much doesnae add up

The idea that George W. Bush is some dastardly criminal genius is surely the main problem with this conspiracy bunkum.

[--------]

I suppose it had to happen sometime...:wink:


You talking sense, or me agreeing with you? :devil:

You're right, though - the man who runs a demolition firm called in to help deal with the wreckage in the aftermath has been targetted by some of these theorists as a mass-murderer. They reckon he's the guy who brought down the 'third tower' - without any evidence and purely to satisfy their craving for sensationalism.

There are people still convinced that the Titanic sinking was an insurance scam and that the ship that sank was really the Titanic's sister Olympic.

Oliver Stone's 'magic bullet' in 'JFK' is easily explainable - HAS been explained. People move around, basically, even while they're being shot. But you'll still find people who believe there was an infantry company firing at Kennedy that day - all paid by the CIA.

(Now maybe the CIA paid Oswald, but that's another conspiracy theory. :wink: )

[ancienthibby]

The idea that George W. Bush is some dastardly criminal genius is surely the main problem with this conspiracy bunkum.

Aye right - that will be kosher, LH!!

Next you'll be suggesting that George Dubya Bush was an intellectual giant of modern times, that his Dad and Tricky Dicky Cheney never ever influenced or arranged his policies/strategies and that he had the CIA in his back pocket throughout his term!!:bye:

[LiverpoolHibs]

Aye right - that will be kosher, LH!!

Next you'll be suggesting that George Dubya Bush was an intellectual giant of modern times, that his Dad and Tricky Dicky Cheney never ever influenced or arranged his policies/strategies and that he had the CIA in his back pocket throughout his term!!:bye:

I'm starting to get confused as to whether people are having a go at me or not!

Oh well...

[lyonhibs]

A lot of the more popular conspiracy theories, particularly in relation to the USA, are invented and perpetuated out of nothing at all, or at best phenomenally sketchy "evidence" by 34 year old virgins who only ever leave their basement-based ADSL internet connection in order to check that "the angry, fiery security guard in the sky" (AKA the sun) is still "watching them"

[Hank Schrader]

I agree with blacksaltire :agree:

This is a massive cover up by America...a move to get the people of USA fully behind Bush's plans for war

Too much doesnae add up

Only took you about 12 hours to change your mind on that one Gramo, last night I seen you going on about 9/11 being orchestrated by Islamic extremists with a hatred of western society. :confused:

[GC]

Only took you about 12 hours to change your mind on that one Gramo, last night I seen you going on about 9/11 being orchestrated by Islamic extremists with a hatred of western society. :confused:

I think the weather report said there may have be a change of wind direction:wink:

[Tomsk]

Do you not know it was the CIA? They're responsible for the majority of the illegal drugs in the US as well just to keep the blacks occupied and stop them getting involved in things that might upset the establishment.

I heard there were several people on the flights who were getting just a tad too close to uncovering the 'real' truth about JFK.

---------- Post added at 11:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:10 PM ----------


One that there doesn't really seem to be much theorising around when I think there probably should be is the assassination of Martin Luther King.

I'd be very, very surprised if there wasn't at least an element of State involvement in that.

You're right. That's what the world needs. More theorising.

[LiverpoolHibs]

You're right. That's what the world needs. More theorising.

Erm, right. Ok.

I was using the word semi-jokingly. But never mind...

[SlickShoes]

Whereas of course your interpretation is based on half-baked interpretations, pre-conceived prejudices, un-critical acceptance of misinformation and selective trawling of relevant "facts".

Here is a typical argument from a conspiracy theorist.

"Well, its has been shown that "X" is inexplicable"
"Actually, it is clearly explicable by "Y" and "Z"
"Well, you would say that, wouldnt you..."

The only possible way you can make a personal judgement is on the basis of analysis of evidence - on both sides. The overwhelming evidence surrounding 9/11 is that Muslim hijackers flew jets into the twin towers on their own volition.

What evidence? Pictures of 12 guys on TV news and a report that they went to flying school?

Im not saying it wasnt muslim terrorists though just that lots of it doesnt add up. There were masses of video recording around the pentagon when this plane flew into it and its ALL gone. No road cameras or petrol stations nearby that had a great few have any footage of it somehow, and that every piece of the place was incinerated on impact?

Also the fact that so many people on these planes managed to make mobile calls, ive been on loads of flights and the chance of getting a signal good enough to have so many calls made is very slim.

[LiverpoolHibs]

What evidence? Pictures of 12 guys on TV news and a report that they went to flying school?

Im not saying it wasnt muslim terrorists though just that lots of it doesnt add up. There were masses of video recording around the pentagon when this plane flew into it and its ALL gone. No road cameras or petrol stations nearby that had a great few have any footage of it somehow, and that every piece of the place was incinerated on impact?

Also the fact that so many people on these planes managed to make mobile calls, ive been on loads of flights and the chance of getting a signal good enough to have so many calls made is very slim.

1. There's quite alot of footage of it. And do you mean 'every piece of the plane was incinerated on impact'? There's massive amounts of debris from the plane all around the site.

2. http://www.debunk911myths.org/topics/Cell_phones

[Steve-O]

The Port Arthur massacre in Australia is a very strange one IMO - appears to have been lots of suppressed evidence, and an apparently mentally unstable person carrying out 35 shooting, many of which were single head shots, carried out by shooting a rifle from the hip, is very difficult to believe. This guy didn't even have a history of gun use apparently and was also supposedly forced to plead guilty in order to avoid a trial which the police would have had a lot of difficulty prosecuting him.

There is even a fake video, supposedly of the shooter in the car park - this video was apparently shot the next day!

Plenty to be read here - http://home.overflow.net.au/~nedwood/portarthur.html

[Steve-O]

1. There's quite alot of footage of it. And do you mean 'every piece of the plane was incinerated on impact'? There's massive amounts of debris from the plane all around the site.

2. http://www.debunk911myths.org/topics/Cell_phones

There is a story stating that what would've been the best piece of footage of the Pentagon (from a garage across the road IIRC) is 'missing' or 'suppressed' which seeems strange.

I would've expected better CCTV at the Pentagon to be honest.

[blackpoolhibs]

Only took you about 12 hours to change your mind on that one Gramo, last night I seen you going on about 9/11 being orchestrated by Islamic extremists with a hatred of western society. :confused:

You would think he would be able to remember what he posted on the other thread wouldn't you? :faf: I'm very confused now, what does he believe happened, and who was behind it? He does have a habit of changing his mind, then going back to his original view, He backed mixu to the hilt, then thought his time was up, only to back him again last season.:faf:

[RyeSloan]

I don't see how you can be confused. :confused:

I used to be one of those people who thought it was faked because of the evidence.............flag fluttering, varying shadows, shoe prints etc.

Now after watching a couple of programmes that have done tests and shown that it is impossible to fake it, I have changed my opinions of the moon landings, not at all confusing.:confused:

Aplogies the line "I used to believe in the moon landings conspiracy until I watched two programmes showing you could fake it." just doesn't make sense to me but I get yer drift.....you, like me, now know the conspiracy theory is nonsense!! :greengrin

[Ed De Gramo]

Only took you about 12 hours to change your mind on that one Gramo, last night I seen you going on about 9/11 being orchestrated by Islamic extremists with a hatred of western society. :confused:

Where?

If you'r referring to the PM Board, I used that phrase to describe people who blow things up i.e. the london attacks...I should have made that clear (my bad)...

If you note the PM post, you'll see I only highlighted the last line of BH's post...I made a general remark about bombers etc...

I've always said 9/11 was a cover up and stand by it :agree:

[Twa Cairpets]

Where?

If you'r referring to the PM Board, I used that phrase to describe people who blow things up i.e. the london attacks...I should have made that clear (my bad)...

If you note the PM post, you'll see I only highlighted the last line of BH's post...I made a general remark about bombers etc...

I've always said 9/11 was a cover up and stand by it :agree:

Right

Was was covered up?

The planes?
The plot?
The aftermath?
The collapsed buildings?
The thousands of deaths?

Give a little bit of detail as to what you believe, and why.

[Twa Cairpets]

What evidence? Pictures of 12 guys on TV news and a report that they went to flying school?

Im not saying it wasnt muslim terrorists though just that lots of it doesnt add up. There were masses of video recording around the pentagon when this plane flew into it and its ALL gone. No road cameras or petrol stations nearby that had a great few have any footage of it somehow, and that every piece of the place was incinerated on impact?

Also the fact that so many people on these planes managed to make mobile calls, ive been on loads of flights and the chance of getting a signal good enough to have so many calls made is very slim.

:faf:

Ah so American Airlines 77 didnt really crash and all those people didnt really die

Have a look at this. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1wQ2BJsgx0) Its one of the better of many excellent debunking sites/vids - 4 minutes of your life,and you'll realise what an almighty plonker you've been.

By the way: Of the loads of flights youve been on, where youre not allowed to use a mobile phone, you can definitively say that you are unable/unlikely to get a good signal on an internal US flight over one of the most densely populated parts of that country. Well, thats certainly strong evidence that'll put my gas at a peep.

[SlickShoes]

:faf:

Ah so American Airlines 77 didnt really crash and all those people didnt really die

Have a look at this. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1wQ2BJsgx0) Its one of the better of many excellent debunking sites/vids - 4 minutes of your life,and you'll realise what an almighty plonker you've been.

By the way: Of the loads of flights youve been on, where youre not allowed to use a mobile phone, you can definitively say that you are unable/unlikely to get a good signal on an internal US flight over one of the most densely populated parts of that country. Well, thats certainly strong evidence that'll put my gas at a peep.

I am not saying it didnt happen, just that there are alot of gray areas.

That weblink someone else sent about phones gave no evidence at all it just said " its entirely possible phones may have worked ".

I have not been a plonker, i havent said the US government set up an attack on there own country or that people didnt die. I said the phone calls bit seemed far fetched and why was there no footage of the plane hitting the pentagon at all?

[SlickShoes]

And i watched your video, amazing i feel like a total ******** now!

Not really, Yes lots of people saw the plane, great, my point was that it was strange that there is no footage of it at all.

[hibsbollah]

:faf:

Ah so American Airlines 77 didnt really crash and all those people didnt really die



He didnt say that.

Having debated a different subject with you, I know how tiresome it becomes when you a) twist peoples words b) insult people (BTW what kind of insult is 'plonker':bye:) and c) generally take on an arrogant, smug, self-righteous tone.

Try showing more respct for people.

Incidentally, I agree with you about 9/11, but that doesnt detract from the above.

[ancienthibby]

Why did Jack Ruby kill Lee Harvey Oswald??:devil:

[sleeping giant]

:faf:

Ah so American Airlines 77 didnt really crash and all those people didnt really die

Have a look at this. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1wQ2BJsgx0) Its one of the better of many excellent debunking sites/vids - 4 minutes of your life,and you'll realise what an almighty plonker you've been.

By the way: Of the loads of flights youve been on, where youre not allowed to use a mobile phone, you can definitively say that you are unable/unlikely to get a good signal on an internal US flight over one of the most densely populated parts of that country. Well, thats certainly strong evidence that'll put my gas at a peep.
I normally enjoy reading your posts but you are coming across like bell end on this thread:bitchy:
Is there really any need to mock people ?

[Twa Cairpets]

He didnt say that.

Having debated a different subject with you, I know how tiresome it becomes when you a) twist peoples words b) insult people (BTW what kind of insult is 'plonker':bye:) and c) generally take on an arrogant, smug, self-righteous tone.

Try showing more respct for people.

Incidentally, I agree with you about 9/11, but that doesnt detract from the above.

My deepest and sincerest apologies for being tiresome, smug, arrogant and self righteous.

Obviously I would prefer persistent, correct, debating-from-a-position-of- strength and confident, but if you prefer to twist my words, thats your call.

I go to some lengths to try and avoid twisting peoples words, but if people make ludicrous claims and spout unsubstantiated piffle I completely reserve the right to treat such statements with contempt, and then offer alternatives, usually with links, to back up my point.

Slickshoes made some daft statements, with nothing other than what seems to be a feeling of bad karma over the whole thing as evidence of conspiracy/cover-up. People can believe whatever they want. If they post it on a board, its not unreasonable to ask for a bit of detail or evidence, is it now?

PS - Homeopathy is still a bag of voodoo kack. Or is it a conspiracy by big pharma...

[Twa Cairpets]

I normally enjoy reading your posts but you are coming across like bell end on this thread:bitchy:
Is there really any need to mock people ?

Kind of, yes if the point the person is making is just too daft to make a reasoned argument against. And I did laugh at the bit about the phone reception on the plane.

Apologies for offending if that is the case - and that is genuine.

[Twa Cairpets]

And i watched your video, amazing i feel like a total ******** now!

Not really, Yes lots of people saw the plane, great, my point was that it was strange that there is no footage of it at all.

Apologies for calling you a plonker - that was out of order now Ive re-read it.

With respect to the lack of video footage, I think there is very little footage of the first impact on the twin towers, which no-one is in any way disputing happened. Lots of the second one, but by then everyone is videoing.

If there is only a very small number of videos of one of the most iconic landmarks in one of the most populous cities on the planet being hit by a plane, then maybe its not that surprising there no video of the Pentagon incident?

In this case, I think it a case of "absence of (video) evidence clearly not being evidence of absence (of a plane)".

[Woody1985]

Apologies for calling you a plonker - that was out of order now Ive re-read it.

With respect to the lack of video footage, I think there is very little footage of the first impact on the twin towers, which no-one is in any way disputing happened. Lots of the second one, but by then everyone is videoing.

If there is only a very small number of videos of one of the most iconic landmarks in one of the most populous cities on the planet being hit by a plane, then maybe its not that surprising there no video of the Pentagon incident?

In this case, I think it a case of "absence of (video) evidence clearly not being evidence of absence (of a plane)".

I suspect there is probably little CCTV etc around the Pentagon for obvious reasons.

I'm sure there are a lot of people in there who probably don't want their moves traced every second of the day. No doubt there must be some kind of security surrounding it.

Lets be honest, if the hub of your intelligence centre is attacked by some religious fanatics would you be broadcasting the video anytime soon? I don't think I would.

[SlickShoes]

I suspect there is probably little CCTV etc around the Pentagon for obvious reasons.

I'm sure there are a lot of people in there who probably don't want their moves traced every second of the day. No doubt there must be some kind of security surrounding it.

Lets be honest, if the hub of your intelligence centre is attacked by some religious fanatics would you be broadcasting the video anytime soon? I don't think I would.

Exactly thats kind of my point, if they released some footage of it then it would shut everyone up that goes on about how it was a missile and not a plane.

Anyway the thing that brings it all back to how horrific it really was is watching that thing on channel four and seeing the news footage of people chucking themselves out of the burning towers. Totally horrendous.