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Love the Green
31-08-2009, 05:54 PM
Yet again poor tactics cost us dearly.
How can any manager/coach watch the whole first half where our tallest player marks the opponents smallest player and our smaller CH marks a giant.
Surely Yogi should have told bamba to mark samaras and hogg mark mcdonald....samaras won evry high ball and allowed htem to dominate their namely high ball to hoggs ZONE and then the knock downs.

Also how bad is Hogg becoming??A liability at the moment.
RE the 3 central midfielders........the work very hard together but never a telling pass forward with any cutitng edge...thougts(constructive only)on these points.

"keep the faith":wink:

blackpoolhibs
31-08-2009, 06:42 PM
Yet again poor tactics cost us dearly.
How can any manager/coach watch the whole first half where our tallest player marks the opponents smallest player and our smaller CH marks a giant.
Surely Yogi should have told bamba to mark samaras and hogg mark mcdonald....samaras won evry high ball and allowed htem to dominate their namely high ball to hoggs ZONE and then the knock downs.

Also how bad is Hogg becoming??A liability at the moment.
RE the 3 central midfielders........the work very hard together but never a telling pass forward with any cutitng edge...thougts(constructive only)on these points.

"keep the faith":wink:

Hogg is bad enough playing on the right of a central defence, he would be even worse playing left centre half. Imagine his crossfield balls played with his left foot.

Hibs Spain
31-08-2009, 07:29 PM
Yet again poor tactics cost us dearly.
How can any manager/coach watch the whole first half where our tallest player marks the opponents smallest player and our smaller CH marks a giant.
Surely Yogi should have told bamba to mark samaras and hogg mark mcdonald....samaras won evry high ball and allowed htem to dominate their namely high ball to hoggs ZONE and then the knock downs.

Also how bad is Hogg becoming??A liability at the moment.
RE the 3 central midfielders........the work very hard together but never a telling pass forward with any cutitng edge...thougts(constructive only)on these points.

"keep the faith":wink:I'm not sure Hogg marking Samaras could be described as zonal marking,just stupidity.Heard two great points re zonal marking..A space can't score a goal ...And levein said he didn't agree with it ..At corners eg put your biggest guy against their biggest guy,Your next biggest guy against their next biggest guy etc etc..Makes sense to me:agree:

poolman
31-08-2009, 07:37 PM
Zonal marking, playing through the channels, holding midfield role, attacking wing backs, playing in the "hole" behind the front two, diamond formations, etc, etc

Big Jock Stein will be spinning in his grave :dizzy:

(((Fergus)))
01-09-2009, 07:28 AM
i thought samaras outjumped bamba for the goal?

Godsahibby
01-09-2009, 07:35 AM
Hibs haven't used zonal marking this season, watch any set piece, always man on man. Samaras just go ahead of Hogg for the goal.

Love the Green
01-09-2009, 07:40 AM
i thought samaras outjumped bamba for the goal?

Yes he did......but he ran into the area Bamba was "marking" Zonal or not even in schoolboy or boys club football you tell your big players to mark there big players............seems very "simple"to me.

"keep the faith":wink:

hibsbollah
01-09-2009, 07:42 AM
i thought samaras outjumped bamba for the goal?

Don't let that irrelevant piece of information spoil the Hogg 'witch hunt', Fergus. He's not hibs class, dontchaknow:rolleyes:

Love the Green
01-09-2009, 07:44 AM
Don't let that irrelevant piece of information spoil the Hogg 'witch hunt', Fergus. He's not hibs class, dontchaknow:rolleyes:


Thread not meant as a Hogg "witch hunt"..it was a citicism of the marking tactics of the 2 centre backs............however if a guy is playing like an ******** are we not allowed to criticise.........

"keep the faith":wink:

hibsbollah
01-09-2009, 07:46 AM
Thread not meant as a Hogg "witch hunt"..

Perhaps not, but im sure it will degenerate into one shortly:greengrin

down the slope
01-09-2009, 07:47 AM
Don't let that irrelevant piece of information spoil the Hogg 'witch hunt', Fergus. He's not hibs class, dontchaknow:rolleyes:

There is no witch hunt against Hogg but he is just not cutting it at the moment and he for me is the weakest on the park, i don't think you will find that i am in a minority with this view.

hibsdownunder
01-09-2009, 08:50 AM
the build up to Celtics goal - Bamba ends up in a contest with Samaras because Hogg lost the battle with his man - he looked weak all game against Samaras but particularly in the first half

imo hogg is a solid, honest pro with qualities but he isn't going to take the team to the next level, is clearly struggling and again imo has struggled for some time

priority position to sort out if we have amibitions to improve.......happy to hear the counter argument but lets not call it a witch hunt

blackpoolhibs
01-09-2009, 09:02 AM
i thought samaras outjumped bamba for the goal?

Watch the goal again. Samaras shrugged of Hogg like he was not even there, thats why he got a jump start over Bamba. Hogg again proved he's not strong enough as a central defender. He gets brushed off the ball far too easily, and this has not happened just this season, this has been the case since day 1.

Green Mikey
01-09-2009, 11:31 AM
Watch the goal again. Samaras shrugged of Hogg like he was not even there, thats why he got a jump start over Bamba. Hogg again proved he's not strong enough as a central defender. He gets brushed off the ball far too easily, and this has not happened just this season, this has been the case since day 1.

:bye:

How could Hogg stop him getting the jump on Bamba? Hold him or push him before he got to the ball? Nonsense.

The root of the goal was the lack of cover on the left, Hinkel had loads of time to put in a quality ball. As other posters have pointed out it was Bamba who was marking Samaras not Hogg. To blame Hogg for the goal is crazy.

In reference to the OP, zonal marking is only at set plays when players can match up against each other. High balls have to be dealt with as the happen with the CHs deciding when to go for the ball.

Love the Green
01-09-2009, 12:12 PM
:bye:

How could Hogg stop him getting the jump on Bamba? Hold him or push him before he got to the ball? Nonsense.

The root of the goal was the lack of cover on the left, Hinkel had loads of time to put in a quality ball. As other posters have pointed out it was Bamba who was marking Samaras not Hogg. To blame Hogg for the goal is crazy.

In reference to the OP, zonal marking is only at set plays when players can match up against each other. High balls have to be dealt with as the happen with the CHs deciding when to go for the ball.


ok zonal marking may be the incorrect term outwith set pieces but why the **** was bamba marking the midget and hogg the giant throughout the whole game..............as I have said previously schol coaches would not have tollerated this for more than 5 mins in any game so why did we....

"keep the faith":wink:

blackpoolhibs
01-09-2009, 12:19 PM
:bye:

How could Hogg stop him getting the jump on Bamba? Hold him or push him before he got to the ball? Nonsense.

The root of the goal was the lack of cover on the left, Hinkel had loads of time to put in a quality ball. As other posters have pointed out it was Bamba who was marking Samaras not Hogg. To blame Hogg for the goal is crazy.

In reference to the OP, zonal marking is only at set plays when players can match up against each other. High balls have to be dealt with as the happen with the CHs deciding when to go for the ball.

Who was hogg supposed to be marking? I will s p e l l i t s l o w l y f o r y o u, his name was samaras, watch it again if you cant remember, he left him as if he was not there, samaras brushed him off like someone swatting a fly. Samaras then had a free run, a run without anyone marking him, and yes got in front of Bamba for the header. If Hogg had marked him properly, if he had been stronger, done his job, we maybe would not have lost that goal. Watch it again, Hogg was marking Samaras, not Bamba.

Green Mikey
01-09-2009, 12:41 PM
ok zonal marking may be the incorrect term outwith set pieces but why the **** was bamba marking the midget and hogg the giant throughout the whole game..............as I have said previously schol coaches would not have tollerated this for more than 5 mins in any game so why did we....

"keep the faith":wink:

Bamba wasn't always marking the "midget", there was plenty times when he came up against Samaras. In particular for the goal:wink:

Centre halfs don't man mark around the box, they have positions and have to stick to them. Bamba can't follow Samaras around the pitch because he would be out of position all the time. The mismatch in heights during the game is due to the movement of the Celtic players not "zonal marking" or poor coaching.

TheBall'sRound
01-09-2009, 12:45 PM
Bamba wasn't always marking the "midget", there was plenty times when he came up against Samaras. In particular for the goal:wink:

Centre halfs don't man mark around the box, they have positions and have to stick to them. Bamba can't follow Samaras around the pitch because he would be out of position all the time. The mismatch in heights during the game is due to the movement of the Celtic players not "zonal marking" or poor coaching.

Have to say I don't get the people who complain about Bamba picking up McDonald and Hogg marking Samaras. Unless it's a set piece the strikers get to choose which defenders they pair up with, not the other way around. If we had defenders criss-crossing all the time it would lead to disaster.

And besides, I noticed that after the first bomb-scare corner came in, Bamba moved from the front post area to the back post... and the next corner was also seriously scary so it had very little effect!

Green Mikey
01-09-2009, 12:53 PM
Who was hogg supposed to be marking? I will s p e l l i t s l o w l y f o r y o u, his name was samaras, watch it again if you cant remember, he left him as if he was not there, samaras brushed him off like someone swatting a fly. Samaras then had a free run, a run without anyone marking him, and yes got in front of Bamba for the header. If Hogg had marked him properly, if he had been stronger, done his job, we maybe would not have lost that goal. Watch it again, Hogg was marking Samaras, not Bamba.

Thanks for spelling it slowly that really helped

If Hogg goes with Samaras he will be moving towards his own goal with Bamba in his way making it a very difficult ball to clear. The ball was put into the area where Bamba was and it is his job to deal with it. IMO the real problem is the cross coming in without any challenge.

Keith_M
01-09-2009, 12:56 PM
Sorry, is this the Transfer Day thread or have we not actually signed someone called Zonal Marking?

:dunno:

blackpoolhibs
01-09-2009, 01:15 PM
Thanks for spelling it slowly that really helped

If Hogg goes with Samaras he will be moving towards his own goal with Bamba in his way making it a very difficult ball to clear. The ball was put into the area where Bamba was and it is his job to deal with it. IMO the real problem is the cross coming in without any challenge.

Of course its not good to let crosses come in, but you said. (As other posters have pointed out it was Bamba who was marking Samaras not Hogg. To blame Hogg for the goal is crazy.) No he was not, he slipped away from hogg, go watch it again. Hogg ends up on his arse, and samaras gets a free run on the ball to out jump Bamba. Hogg lost his man again, not Bambas fault, not Hanlons fault, just Hogg doing what he does best. The bit in bold is also funny, are you saying hogg should just have let him go because he was moving towards his own goal? You see imho, he should have gone with him, got in front of him, bullied him, not the other way round. :confused:

GieTheBaTaeReilly
01-09-2009, 01:24 PM
Zonal marking, playing through the channels, holding midfield role, attacking wing backs, playing in the "hole" behind the front two, diamond formations, etc, etc

Big Jock Stein will be spinning in his grave :dizzy:


Big Jock Stein was cremated, but I get the jist.

Green Mikey
01-09-2009, 03:16 PM
Of course its not good to let crosses come in, but you said. (As other posters have pointed out it was Bamba who was marking Samaras not Hogg. To blame Hogg for the goal is crazy.) No he was not, he slipped away from hogg, go watch it again. Hogg ends up on his arse, and samaras gets a free run on the ball to out jump Bamba. Hogg lost his man again, not Bambas fault, not Hanlons fault, just Hogg doing what he does best. The bit in bold is also funny, are you saying hogg should just have let him go because he was moving towards his own goal? You see imho, he should have gone with him, got in front of him, bullied him, not the other way round. :confused:

So the goal was all Hogg's fault:faf: So the person who conceded possession/no pressure on the cross/another CH covering in the middle/excellent ball from Hinkel all had no impact on the goal being conceded?

The dislike you harbor for Hogg is clearly inhibiting your ability to view this goal objectively.

IWasThere2016
01-09-2009, 03:18 PM
Zonal marking is a nonsense. Since when did a zone score a goal! :grr:

blackpoolhibs
01-09-2009, 03:20 PM
So the goal was all Hogg's fault:faf: So the person who conceded possession/no pressure on the cross/another CH covering in the middle/excellent ball from Hinkel all had no impact on the goal being conceded?

The dislike you harbor for Hogg is clearly inhibiting your ability to view this goal subjectively.

Again you fail to see who's player scored the goal. Again you fail to recognize, samaras was hoggs player, and again you fail to understand basic defending.:faf:

blackpoolhibs
01-09-2009, 03:24 PM
Zonal marking is a nonsense. Since when did a zone score a goal! :grr:

The goal conceded had nothing to do with zonal marking. Zonal marking only comes in when defending corners and free kicks. The guy scored because his marker was sitting on his arse as usual.

JimBHibees
01-09-2009, 03:30 PM
Again you fail to see who's player scored the goal. Again you fail to recognize, samaras was hoggs player, and again you fail to understand basic defending.:faf:

Yep you can clearly see Samaras swatting away a very weak Hogg and getting the run on Bamba for the header. Didnt think Bamba covered himself in glory either however the main area of weakness was Hogg again, even allowing for the fact Hinkel had an unhindered cross to put in.

The bottom line is he isnt good enough and IMO hasnt been for a couple of seasons, captain or not.

blackpoolhibs
01-09-2009, 03:36 PM
Yep you can clearly see Samaras swatting away a very weak Hogg and getting the run on Bamba for the header. Didnt think Bamba covered himself in glory either however the main area of weakness was Hogg again, even allowing for the fact Hinkel had an unhindered cross to put in.

The bottom line is he isnt good enough and IMO hasnt been for a couple of seasons, captain or not.

Clearly someone who watches the game with your eyes actually open. Games are littered with mistakes, the secret is to minimalise tose mistakes. Having a defender who makes as many mistakes as Hogg does, is criminal. Hogg is not good enough, a poor mans Gary Caldwell

Green Mikey
01-09-2009, 03:39 PM
Again you fail to see who's player scored the goal. Again you fail to recognize, samaras was hoggs player, and again you fail to understand basic defending.:faf:

Again you refuse comment on the other factors that were involved in the build up to the goal and continue to illustate a sad inability to discuss football from a subjective viewpoint.

This will be my last post on this matter because it is now clear to me that if I try to continue this discussion I will be met with inarticulate responses that you created to show disdain instead of furthering the debate.

blackpoolhibs
01-09-2009, 03:42 PM
Again you refuse comment on the other factors that were involved in the build up to the goal and continue to illustate a sad inability to discuss football from a subjective viewpoint.

This will be my last post on this matter because it is now clear to me that if I try to continue this discussion I will be met with inarticulate responses that you created to show disdain instead of furthering the debate.

Its also clear to me, you just follow the ball when watching football.