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Leith Green
25-08-2009, 08:02 PM
Apparently major disorder before the West Ham Vs Millwall game tonight.
Supporter stabbed outside the stadium during pre arranged trouble..

Different ball game when these two play ! :agree:

CB_NO3
25-08-2009, 08:04 PM
Apparently there is trouble still outside the ground now while the game is on.

Ell_Chrisso
25-08-2009, 08:05 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/8221451.stm

Leith Green
25-08-2009, 08:05 PM
Just heard on sky sports news that its apparently happening still, involving hundreds of people, large scale according to the police !!

Definetly one to avoid!:wink:

J-C
25-08-2009, 08:05 PM
Apparently major disorder before the West Ham Vs Millwall game tonight.
Supporter stabbed outside the stadium during pre arranged trouble..

Different ball game when these two play ! :agree:

On SSN, hundreds of fans causing chaos outside Upton Park, police calling in more police to deal with it. :confused:

Dibben
25-08-2009, 08:06 PM
More police are rushing to the scene!

:bitchy:

BH.

CB_NO3
25-08-2009, 08:33 PM
Trouble inside the ground.

Barney McGrew
25-08-2009, 08:33 PM
Sky News now reporting trouble inside the ground - attempted pitch invasion

Hibs90
25-08-2009, 08:36 PM
West Ham scored in the 87th minute. Few idiots on the pitch.

Mad

Leith Green
25-08-2009, 08:38 PM
Wait until all the fans leave the ground after full time... Could be a full scale riot.. Apparently fans trying to geton the pitch from all areas of the ground!

Mental !

wpj
25-08-2009, 08:40 PM
Not at all suprised, was at Orient vs Millwall last sason, there was a hammers crew in the orient end and on the streets before the game

AFKA5814_Hibs
25-08-2009, 08:40 PM
Someone has to win the match tonight, so I think there will be a fair bit of trouble again once the game does finish.

Frazerbob
25-08-2009, 08:50 PM
Sure there's only 1500 away fans at the game. Their original allocation was halved by the police.

Sir David Gray
25-08-2009, 08:56 PM
Absolutely disgraceful. :bitchy:

I can see the fans inside the ground being kept there for quite a while until the problems outside are dealt with.

The police must have been dreading tonight ever since the draw was made.

It makes the disturbances after our match against Bolton seem like nothing more than a friendly argument.

West Ham have just scored a penalty and the player who has scored went straight to the fans, causing some fans to come on the pitch again and have been goading the Millwall supporters.

MacBean
25-08-2009, 08:58 PM
Ridiculous stories coming out of Upton park tonight.

Im too young to have been through any of the stories from the 70's/80's however what im hearing on SSN and from reading the odd review on BBC etc it doesnt sound like a lot of fun down at the game
someone should tell them what supporting your club is about.

That Stanislas doesnt seem to be making things much better by provoking the fans!!

:grr::grr::grr:

CB_NO3
25-08-2009, 08:58 PM
Play has been suspended.

sadtom
25-08-2009, 08:59 PM
And they are usually so well behaved.

dalkeith stu
25-08-2009, 09:01 PM
Always on the cards, 1st thing i thought when i saw the fixture. :rolleyes:

Sir David Gray
25-08-2009, 09:03 PM
Ridiculous stories coming out of Upton park tonight.

Im too young to have been through any of the stories from the 70's/80's however what im hearing on SSN and from reading the odd review on BBC etc it doesnt sound like a lot of fun down at the game
someone should tell them what supporting your club is about.

That Stanislas doesnt seem to be making things much better by provoking the fans!!

:grr::grr::grr:

:agree: He should be fined by West Ham.

He is obviously a few sandwiches short of a picnic to have done what he did in those circumstances. :bitchy:

Sprouleflyer
25-08-2009, 09:04 PM
1000 riot police couldn't stop the trouble.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/8221451.stm

Gus
25-08-2009, 09:05 PM
These are not supporters....these are mindless donkey's who have been nursing a semi since the draw was made & not because their team could go on a cup run but so they can pretend they are danny dyer & that they are ard.

KeithTheHibby
25-08-2009, 09:06 PM
There was always going to bother tonight, West Ham won't have played Millwall for years, the minute the pair were drawn together the casuals would have been creaming themselves.

Danny_Hibee
25-08-2009, 09:08 PM
Shocking behaviour from both sets of fans (if you can call them that - the ones outside the ground at least) but not surprising at all, not that that is any excuse for what is happening.

The quicker the media stop linking these people to the clubs the better. If they are classed as just hooligans as opposed to West Ham/Millwall hooligans then it might just stop them getting the attention/support they love so much.

Looking like its gonna be a good result tho :greengrin

hibee_boy
25-08-2009, 09:10 PM
Reports of bricks, bottles and darts being thrown as opposition fans outside the ground.

This is by far the worst fixture in terms of football violence in Britian. Makes an Old Firm derby look like a game of scrabble.

Austinho
25-08-2009, 09:12 PM
Does anyone know where and when the highlights will be shown?

Gatecrasher
25-08-2009, 09:13 PM
Shocking behaviour from both sets of fans (if you can call them that - the ones outside the ground at least) but not surprising at all, not that that is any excuse for what is happening.

The quicker the media stop linking these people to the clubs the better. If they are classed as just hooligans as opposed to West Ham/Millwall hooligans then it might just stop them getting the attention/support they love so much.

Looking like its gonna be a good result tho :greengrin

the media will stop linking them to the clubs when the supporters start behaving :wink:

Sprouleflyer
25-08-2009, 09:14 PM
Does anyone know where and when the highlights will be shown?

The game or the trouble? :duck:

Dashing Bob S
25-08-2009, 09:14 PM
Terrible policing in my opinion. Had texts from London telling me it was inevitable there would be big trouble. Seems like the police were unprepared. By only allocating 1,500 tickets to Millwall they had up to 1,000 more roaming the streets outside looking for trouble. It would have been easier to contain every one in the ground. Getting quite nasty down there from what I hear.

Capt Mainwaring
25-08-2009, 09:15 PM
Sky News starting to show scenes. Utter chaos on and off the pitch.

MacBean
25-08-2009, 09:19 PM
:agree: He should be fined by West Ham.

He is obviously a few sandwiches short of a picnic to have done what he did in those circumstances. :bitchy:


agree stupid antics by him, just antogonising it. Hope West Ham do something about it, before the FA step in.

AllyF
25-08-2009, 09:20 PM
its funny as **** though haha

:hmmm:

MacBean
25-08-2009, 09:20 PM
its funny as **** though haha


:grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr:

Dashing Bob S
25-08-2009, 09:20 PM
What did FH actually say wrong??? Looking at the history of the thread he was posting his views on a situation which has no place in football IMO. Never said anything that other people hadn't already posted.....:confused:

sorry to butt in, all Hibs fans & all that :agree:

Martin Tyler, it looks like the aggro in the streets of East London has spilled over onto the Edinburgh keyboards!

Capt Mainwaring
25-08-2009, 09:20 PM
its funny as **** though haha

Grow up - Erse!

nonshinyfinish
25-08-2009, 09:20 PM
its funny as **** though haha

The guy getting stabbed in the chest? Hilarious, eh?

Dashing Bob S
25-08-2009, 09:22 PM
Haven't been so excited since the announcement of George Burley's Scotland squad.

Ell_Chrisso
25-08-2009, 09:24 PM
:top marks stewards and police in this farcicle situation

feel for the families, and especially young kids at the game

sauzee_4
25-08-2009, 09:26 PM
aw diddums, dummys oot


How's it funny mate? u approve of all this rioting at the fitba business?

Sylar
25-08-2009, 09:27 PM
Fans on the pitch at full time.

Utter lunacy.

I hate to see what will happen outside the stadium once this finishes!

wpj
25-08-2009, 09:30 PM
Local news reporting Millwall locked in for 40 mins, gonna be a long 500 yards walk to the tube after that!!

Danny_Hibee
25-08-2009, 09:31 PM
the media will stop linking them to the clubs when the supporters start behaving :wink:

That was my point... not just in this situation but in almost all cases of "football" violence the people involved are not true supporters and the real fans hate these people as much as everyone else :agree:

hibsdaft
25-08-2009, 09:32 PM
i feel sorry for the £6 an hour stewards tonight.

Dashing Bob S
25-08-2009, 09:34 PM
That was my point... not just in this situation but in almost all cases of "football" violence the people involved are not true supporters and the real fans hate these people as much as everyone else :agree:

Why? Not all football supporters are saints. Just because they are psycho's doesn't make them any less football supporters. A broad diversity of personality types are represented in a football stadium. Can't nutters like football as well?

Gatecrasher
25-08-2009, 09:35 PM
That was my point... not just in this situation but in almost all cases of "football" violence the people involved are not true supporters and the real fans hate these people as much as everyone else :agree:


ah i see, fair doo's, i must have read the original post wrong :greengrin

Frazerbob
25-08-2009, 09:36 PM
That was my point... not just in this situation but in almost all cases of "football" violence the people involved are not true supporters and the real fans hate these people as much as everyone else :agree:

I'm sorry but these idiots are supporters, UNFORTUNATELY. I would imagine everyone in the Milwall end will be on their database. Just like the erses that follow Hibs, the sooner they grow up the better. Yet another example to put to bed the pathetic justification put forward by the appologists that it's just a bit of harmless fun and only a few lads having a ruck with like minded people and doesn't involve innocent fans.

Baldy
25-08-2009, 09:36 PM
I was at Upton park on Sunday for the Spurs game.

West Ham had around 300 hooligans on display but police were well in control, but I had the feeling if Millwall had not been going there tonight the ICF would have done whatever they liked.

tonight was always going to be a big one

Ed De Gramo
25-08-2009, 09:40 PM
Going to have a full blown rant here but here goes!

Bloody **** at tonights football. Fans my arse...if you're not interested in the football then ****** off and let the majority enjoy the game. Sad day for football because of an ignorant minority. If your idea of a great weekend is deliberately going out your way to kick the ***** out of someone else, then your clearly f***ed up in the head and have no interest in football.

Ell_Chrisso
25-08-2009, 09:42 PM
Going to have a full blown rant here but here goes!

Bloody **** at tonights football. Fans my arse...if you're not interested in the football then ****** off and let the majority enjoy the game. Sad day for football because of an ignorant minority. If your idea of a great weekend is deliberately going out your way to kick the ***** out of someone else, then your clearly f***ed up in the head and have no interest in football.

this thread has needed this rant :top marks

bingo70
25-08-2009, 09:45 PM
Going to have a full blown rant here but here goes!

Bloody **** at tonights football. Fans my arse...if you're not interested in the football then ****** off and let the majority enjoy the game. Sad day for football because of an ignorant minority. If your idea of a great weekend is deliberately going out your way to kick the ***** out of someone else, then your clearly f***ed up in the head and have no interest in football.

Thats the problem, they do enjoy the football, they also enjoy fighting so they combine the two.

The second bit i've highlighted is just nonsense i'm afraid, load of people that are ****ed up in the head like football.

Just because someones violent doesn't automtically mean they don't like football, to suggest that is the case is ridiculous IMO.

Dashing Bob S
25-08-2009, 09:47 PM
Thats the problem, they do enjoy the football, they also enjoy fighting so they combine the two.

The second bit i've highlighted is just nonsense i'm afraid, load of people that are ****ed up in the head like football.

Just because someones violent doesn't automtically mean they don't like football, to suggest that is the case is ridiculous IMO.

As meaningless as saying you can't like tennis because you're romantic.

hibsdaft
25-08-2009, 09:49 PM
just want to point out that by all accounts the 1500 Millwall inside the ground actually caused next to no bother at all tonight.

been on their forums and they're saying that the low ticket allocation meant that their casual element mostly stayed outside the ground making this harder to police. fwiw. mind you probably easier to control the 1500 so probably not so easy for those in the ground to engage West Ham if they wanted to

Sir David Gray
25-08-2009, 09:49 PM
:snowman

Is that some sort of code?

Ell_Chrisso
25-08-2009, 09:50 PM
Thats the problem, they do enjoy the football, they also enjoy fighting so they combine the two.

The second bit i've highlighted is just nonsense i'm afraid, load of people that are ****ed up in the head like football.

Just because someones violent doesn't automtically mean they don't like football, to suggest that is the case is ridiculous IMO.

So what your trying to say, is its alrite for people to be just turning upto games in the interest purely to go kick the s**t out of another football fan?

i hate people who go out on saturday nights looking for fights, so that wouldnt change my mind because its a football match.

how would it make u feel to find out your son/dad/relative/friend, had went to hospital seriously injured, through supporters fighting.. ? ?

Ed De Gramo
25-08-2009, 09:50 PM
Thats the problem, they do enjoy the football, they also enjoy fighting so they combine the two.

The second bit i've highlighted is just nonsense i'm afraid, load of people that are ****ed up in the head like football.

Just because someones violent doesn't automtically mean they don't like football, to suggest that is the case is ridiculous IMO.

So the fans who were outside the ground during the match kicking ***** out of rival fans were watching the football? They had no interest in being inside Upton Park tonight....they went to the ground because Millwall were in town

bingo70
25-08-2009, 09:52 PM
So what your trying to say, is its alrite for people to be just turning upto games in the interest purely to go kick the s**t out of another football fan?

i hate people who go out on saturday nights looking for fights, so that wouldnt change my mind because its a football match.

how would it make u feel to find out your son/dad/relative/friend, had went to hospital seriously injured, through supporters fighting.. ? ?

When have i said any of that :confused:

I'm saying that to suggest that people either like fighting or going to the football is ridiculous, these people clearly like doing both or they wouldn't do it.

Dashing Bob S
25-08-2009, 09:54 PM
So the fans who were outside the ground during the match kicking ***** out of rival fans were watching the football? They had no interest in being inside Upton Park tonight....they went to the ground because Millwall were in town

No, if they got tickets (as would have been their preference) they would have watched the game AND kicked **** out the rival fans.

Dashing Bob S
25-08-2009, 09:55 PM
When have i said any of that :confused:

I'm saying that to suggest that people either like fighting or going to the football is ridiculous, these people clearly like doing both or they wouldn't do it.

It's a bit like liking tennis and getting off with somebody. At 'Wimbers' you can do both.

Sylar
25-08-2009, 09:57 PM
just want to point out that by all accounts the 1500 Millwall inside the ground actually caused next to no bother at all tonight.

been on their forums and they're saying that the low ticket allocation meant that their casual element mostly stayed outside the ground making this harder to police. fwiw. mind you probably easier to control the 1500 so probably not so easy for those in the ground to engage West Ham if they wanted to

The video footage suggests otherwise (particularly following West Ham's opener).

bingo70
25-08-2009, 09:57 PM
So the fans who were outside the ground during the match kicking ***** out of rival fans were watching the football? They had no interest in being inside Upton Park tonight....they went to the ground because Millwall were in town

Obviously not, if they were trying to watch the football they wouldn't see over the stand for a start.

I'm saying it's possible to like fighting and football, if you think all real football fans are angels that wouldn't dare ever fight then your living on a different planet.

Just to make it clear, i'm not some wanna be hooligan or keyboard hard man, i'm just a realist, some football fans are violent and it's no point pretending that anyone who misbehaves at the football must automatically not be a real football fan.

Ell_Chrisso
25-08-2009, 10:00 PM
Obviously not, if they were trying to watch the football they wouldn't see over the stand for a start.

I'm saying it's possible to like fighting and football, if you think all real football fans are angels that wouldn't dare ever fight then your living on a different planet.

Just to make it clear, i'm not some wanna be hooligan or keyboard hard man, i'm just a realist, some football fans are violent and it's no point pretending that anyone who misbehaves at the football must automatically not be a real football fan.


maybe ur original post, containing this, would have come across more realistic.
i for one, am not an angel when it comes to being at the football.
i love a good old bit of banter, when it comes to seperate supporters.

but these supporters have taken waaaaaaay to far tonight.

Cabbage East
25-08-2009, 10:01 PM
Going to have a full blown rant here but here goes!

Bloody **** at tonights football. Fans my arse...if you're not interested in the football then ****** off and let the majority enjoy the game. Sad day for football because of an ignorant minority. If your idea of a great weekend is deliberately going out your way to kick the ***** out of someone else, then your clearly f***ed up in the head and have no interest in football.



How'd you work that one out?

Still fans whether you like it or no.

Hermit Crab
25-08-2009, 10:03 PM
Going to the footy and getting stabbed, the guy could have been killed, could have been with his kids or that Thats not what football is about. The folk that ran on the pitch are all on tv cameras it wont be hard to get decent images of them. Ban the lot!

MacBean
25-08-2009, 10:05 PM
this thread has needed this rant :top marks

back you up there cus:top marks
*****ing outrage today should not be part of todays football
films like football factories and green street have encouraged this and fair enough they make good movies but this has antogonised it.

the firm is out this summer and it wil make it worse

Ed De Gramo
25-08-2009, 10:05 PM
How'd you work that one out?

Still fans whether you like it or no.

Minority **** bags IMO :agree:

Fans support the team....they don't get a semi from booting the ***** out people and stabbing people

Sylar
25-08-2009, 10:08 PM
Minority **** bags IMO :agree:

Fans support the team....they don't get a semi from booting the ***** out people and stabbing people

I was present at the Catania vs Palermo game in Sicily 3 years ago, when an Italian policeman was killed outside the stadium, following the final whistle.

Violence at football on the continent is part and parcel, and fans/hooligans aren't seperate entities. Granted, there will be those amongst the Millwall/West Ham fans who aren't supporters, and enjoy the violence, but don't kid yourself into thinking that the vast majority of these "crews" are just mindless thugs.

wpj
25-08-2009, 10:15 PM
back you up there cus:top marks
*****ing outrage today should not be part of todays football
films like football factories and green street have encouraged this and fair enough they make good movies but this has antogonised it.

the firm is out this summer and it wil make it worse

It may also lead to revival of sartorial elegance on the terracing :dunno:

Ed De Gramo
25-08-2009, 10:16 PM
I was present at the Catania vs Palermo game in Sicily 3 years ago, when an Italian policeman was killed outside the stadium, following the final whistle.

Violence at football on the continent is part and parcel, and fans/hooligans aren't seperate entities. Granted, there will be those amongst the Millwall/West Ham fans who aren't supporters, and enjoy the violence, but don't kid yourself into thinking that the vast majority of these "crews" are just mindless thugs.

Just don't understand why people find fighting and trying to stab people after a football match satisfying...

mixumatosis
25-08-2009, 10:24 PM
How'd you work that one out?

Still fans whether you like it or no.

So, I've been going to watch Hibs for years. Bought tickets, bought the shirts and hats and scarves. But one day I decide that I'm going to rob the ticket office. It's a violent robbery and some people are hurt. The end result is that the club lose money and people have been injured in the process. You'd still regard me as a fan though ? despite setting out on a course of action which I KNEW would be injurious to the club I "support".

The actions of these "fans" have caused direct harm to their club. Please explain how you can go out and damage both the financial prospects of your club (as both are CERTAIN to be fined) and the reputation of your club and still be "supporting" it ?

Ed De Gramo
25-08-2009, 10:34 PM
So, I've been going to watch Hibs for years. Bought tickets, bought the shirts and hats and scarves. But one day I decide that I'm going to rob the ticket office. It's a violent robbery and some people are hurt. The end result is that the club lose money and people have been injured in the process. You'd still regard me as a fan though ? despite setting out on a course of action which I KNEW would be injurious to the club I "support".

The actions of these "fans" have caused direct harm to their club. Please explain how you can go out and damage both the financial prospects of your club (as both are CERTAIN to be fined) and the reputation of your club and still be "supporting" it ?

Well said that man :top marks

Chuckie
25-08-2009, 10:34 PM
So, I've been going to watch Hibs for years. Bought tickets, bought the shirts and hats and scarves. But one day I decide that I'm going to rob the ticket office. It's a violent robbery and some people are hurt. The end result is that the club lose money and people have been injured in the process. You'd still regard me as a fan though ? despite setting out on a course of action which I KNEW would be injurious to the club I "support".

The actions of these "fans" have caused direct harm to their club. Please explain how you can go out and damage both the financial prospects of your club (as both are CERTAIN to be fined) and the reputation of your club and still be "supporting" it ?

You naughty boy..

:bye:

marinello59
25-08-2009, 10:36 PM
You naughty boy..

:bye:

You going to expand on that? :confused:

mixumatosis
25-08-2009, 10:39 PM
You naughty boy..

:bye:


You going to expand on that? :confused:

Aye, I didn't, let's just get that straight before this spirals beyond all control !

Chuckie
25-08-2009, 10:42 PM
You going to expand on that? :confused:

Ask Mr Robtheticketoffice...

Shocking...

marinello59
25-08-2009, 10:44 PM
Ask Mr Robtheticketoffice...

Shocking...

:confused: Guess in another language this is funny then?

Chuckie
25-08-2009, 10:48 PM
You going to expand on that? :confused:


Yoooooooooooou naaaaaaaughy boooooooooooy.

marinello59
25-08-2009, 10:49 PM
Yoooooooooooou naaaaaaaughy boooooooooooy.

Can anybody translate this from smartarse in to English?

mixumatosis
25-08-2009, 10:51 PM
:confused: Guess in another language this is funny then?

the⋅o⋅ret⋅i⋅cal  /ˌθiəˈrɛtɪkəl/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [thee-uh-ret-i-kuhl] Show IPA
Use theoretical in a Sentence
–adjective 1. of, pertaining to, or consisting in theory; not practical (distinguished from applied ).
2. existing only in theory; hypothetical.
3. given to, forming, or dealing with theories; speculative

ENOUGH !!!

Chuckie
25-08-2009, 10:53 PM
Can anybody translate this from smartarse in to English?

I've made a terrible error.

I am drunk.

Football violence is abhorrent.

Sir David Gray
25-08-2009, 11:05 PM
Can I ask why my post, defending my position, has been deleted? :confused:

Hibby D
25-08-2009, 11:08 PM
Can I ask why my post, defending my position, has been deleted? :confused:

All posts have been removed FH - except of course your original post which was absolutely fine.

Apologies for the way things went

D

Removed
25-08-2009, 11:10 PM
Can I ask why my post, defending my position, has been deleted? :confused:

:agree: And the others :confused:

Dashing Bob S
25-08-2009, 11:10 PM
fan comes from fanatic, person with excessive and single-minded zeal for a cause.

you could argue that hoolies are truer 'fans' than the rest of us.

Jonnyboy
25-08-2009, 11:10 PM
:agree: And the others :confused:

See post 81 above for explanation

sadtom
25-08-2009, 11:14 PM
Instead of the icf and bushwhackers causing widespread mayhem and destruction. I propose that (if there is a next time), in order to recognise the bad blood between the 2 groups and to sate some folks bloodlust and primal desire for violence. Prior to kick off (football that is), Danny Dyer and Danny Baker are greased up and sent into the centre circle in loin cloths in a bloody fight to the finish.
The victor is then beaten to death with a claw hammer.

The innocents are spared, no property is damaged and everybodys happy (well me anyway)!

The proceeds from the dvd (which would be substantial) could then go to a childrens charidee.

Sir David Gray
25-08-2009, 11:17 PM
All posts have been removed FH - except of course your original post which was absolutely fine.

Apologies for the way things went

D

Fair enough.

It's just that I was actually told by an admin, via PM, a couple of months ago that there was "nothing wrong in fighting your corner", which is all that I was doing.

I'm guessing that there is a little bit of embarrassment that this situation was caused by a fairly "odd" comment, shall we say, from an admin.

Thanks for clearing it up, though. Hopefully it won't happen again. :agree:

Removed
25-08-2009, 11:17 PM
See post 81 above for explanation

Didn't explain anything John. I was as confused as the posters in question as to what was going on and would still like to understand the point Sergey was trying to make.

iwasthere1972
25-08-2009, 11:17 PM
Instead of the icf and bushwhackers causing widespread mayhem and destruction. I propose that (if there is a next time), in order to recognise the bad blood between the 2 groups and to sate some folks bloodlust and primal desire for violence. Prior to kick off (football that is), Danny Dyer and Danny Baker are greased up and sent into the centre circle in loin cloths in a bloody fight to the finish.
The victor is then beaten to death with a claw hammer.

The innocents are spared, no property is damaged and everybodys happy (well me anyway)!

The proceeds from the dvd (which would be substantial) could then go to a childrens charidee.

What a load a pash. :agree:

mixumatosis
25-08-2009, 11:22 PM
See post 81 above for explanation

I'm sure 65bd will join me in saying that it's not an explanation, far less a satisfactory one. You would not shy away from putting a reason for deletion beside the comments of a yam or someone else talking rubbish. If an Admin talks out of turn though it seems the evidence is simply removed.

sadtom
25-08-2009, 11:31 PM
What a load a pash. :agree:

You think? Seems perfectly reasonable to me.

Hibby D
25-08-2009, 11:31 PM
I'm sure 65bd will join me in saying that it's not an explanation, far less a satisfactory one. You would not shy away from putting a reason for deletion beside the comments of a yam or someone else talking rubbish. If an Admin talks out of turn though it seems the evidence is simply removed.

It's never been common practice for the admins to explain decisions we've made and actions we've taken. Suffice to say that FH has stated he is satisfied with the apology and so we'll leave things there.

MacBean
25-08-2009, 11:50 PM
It may also lead to revival of sartorial elegance on the terracing :dunno:


i wouldn't know - i sit in the west :wink:

thekaratekid
26-08-2009, 12:48 AM
It's never been common practice for the admins to explain decisions we've made and actions we've taken. Suffice to say that FH has stated he is satisfied with the apology and so we'll leave things there.

Just as well

I'd struggle to explain Sergey's behaviour this evening too

Danny_Hibee
26-08-2009, 07:47 AM
just want to point out that by all accounts the 1500 Millwall inside the ground actually caused next to no bother at all tonight.

been on their forums and they're saying that the low ticket allocation meant that their casual element mostly stayed outside the ground making this harder to police. fwiw. mind you probably easier to control the 1500 so probably not so easy for those in the ground to engage West Ham if they wanted to


The video footage suggests otherwise (particularly following West Ham's opener).

I dont want to sound like I'm defending West Ham fans because the behaviour of both sets of fans was shocking but, like Scott says, you can clearly see after the West Ham goal that a group of fans run over to the stand and start throwing punches over the wall at the other fans. Its difficult to tell becuase (surprisingly!) no-one appears to be wearing any club colours but its all taking place in front of the home fans which I can only imagine means it was Millwall fans on the pitch at that area.

Millwall fans were by no means blameless and the fact that there were absolutely sickening chants about Calum Davenport and also about Jack Collison's dad as well as monkey chants directed at Carlton Cole highlights that.

Joe Baker II
26-08-2009, 08:47 AM
The london police are deservedly getting stick for cutting Millwall's allocation which resulted in a lot of fans being in the surrounding areas to the Boleyn Ground apparently - one has to look at thier sheer lack of common sense given ground was not full, thus easier for fans to move around and ultiamtely get on the pitch.

Dashing Bob S
26-08-2009, 08:56 AM
The london police are deservedly getting stick for cutting Millwall's allocation which resulted in a lot of fans being in the surrounding areas to the Boleyn Ground apparently - one has to look at thier sheer lack of common sense given ground was not full, thus easier for fans to move around and ultiamtely get on the pitch.

Agreed Joe, the texts from London I'm getting, be they Millwall, West Ham fans or neutrals, are all singing from the same song sheet. If you cut the allocation, you have to police the streets outside or they will head to the ground and watch the game in the local pubs with all the chaos that ensues. Far better to have them all in the ground, in one place, one lot sent home the others kept back and escorted away.

The bad policing lit a series of bushfires inside and outside the ground which the Met subsequently couldn't put out.

Pointless whingeing about people who choose to behave that way, they always have and always will and no amount of keyboard posturing condemnations will change that. What the police should be doing is learning crowd control lessons on how to deal with a phenomena that's AT LEAST 40 years old.

Dashing Bob S
26-08-2009, 09:04 AM
Millwalkl got 1500 tickets, a decision by the police based on past experience?

Then the police are blamed because another 1500 turn up at the ground without tickets, with no chance of getting in, and that's the fault of the police?

Not the fault of the thugs and hooligans loitering outside a football ground while a match is in progress looking for an opportunity to start trouble?

If you don't have a ticket to an all-ticket match, why go?

Oh, to start trouble, absolutely no question. However, the clubs don't meet on a regular basis, but rival groups of fans do, so police 'intelligence' should have been aware of that and responded accordingly.

I'm not unsympathetic to the police, but they are in the law enforcement business and this sort of thing has been going on for ages. They made some poor operational decisions in my view.

--------
26-08-2009, 09:08 AM
Oh, to start trouble, absolutely no question. However, the clubs don't meet on a regular basis, but rival groups of fans do, so police 'intelligence' should have been aware of that and responded accordingly.

I'm not unsympathetic to the police, but they are in the law enforcement business and this sort of thing has been going on for ages. They made some poor operational decisions in my view.


Yup. Time perhaps for the English to increase the numbers of police at matches closer to the levels demanded by the Scottish police forces?

Nice to hear that the Millwall manager considers that ALL the Millwall fans behaved 'impeccably' last night, too.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/8221708.stm

Woody1985
26-08-2009, 09:10 AM
These are not supporters....these are mindless donkey's who have been nursing a semi since the draw was made & not because their team could go on a cup run but so they can pretend they are danny dyer & that they are ard.

Talking of Danny Dyer, did anyone hear the comments being read out on SSN news last night?

Someone had wrote in and said 'I'm in the stadium but Im too scared to leave'. SSN presenter 'That was a message from a Daniel Dyer'. :faf:

RoslinInstHibby
26-08-2009, 09:15 AM
anyone else see the slight irony on skysports last night of condeming the violence and then going to an ad break with a kasabian song......A band who featured heavily in the movie green street soundtrack..... A movie that glorified violence between west ham and millwall hooligans.....

Dashing Bob S
26-08-2009, 09:23 AM
anyone else see the slight irony on skysports last night of condeming the violence and then going to an ad break with a kasabian song......A band who featured heavily in the movie green street soundtrack..... A movie that glorified violence between west ham and millwall hooligans.....

All that movie glorified was terrible acting and atrocious screenwriting.

RoslinInstHibby
26-08-2009, 09:48 AM
All that movie glorified was terrible acting and atrocious screenwriting.

:greengrin true that

Sauzee 62
26-08-2009, 09:49 AM
just want to point out that by all accounts the 1500 Millwall inside the ground actually caused next to no bother at all tonight.

been on their forums and they're saying that the low ticket allocation meant that their casual element mostly stayed outside the ground making this harder to police. fwiw. mind you probably easier to control the 1500 so probably not so easy for those in the ground to engage West Ham if they wanted to

Monkey chants, songs about Calum Davenport and Jack Collison's dad, bottles, coins etc.... thrown onto the pitch. They are the highest order of **** and should be booted out of football.

:grr:

lobster
26-08-2009, 09:54 AM
Millwalkl got 1500 tickets, a decision by the police based on past experience?

Then the police are blamed because another 1500 turn up at the ground without tickets, with no chance of getting in, and that's the fault of the police?

Not the fault of the thugs and hooligans loitering outside a football ground while a match is in progress looking for an opportunity to start trouble?

If you don't have a ticket to an all-ticket match, why go?

West Ham vs Millwall? 1500 Millwall allegedly outside the ground 'comin up ere taykin liberties?' A highly likely probability of violence outside and inside the ground. Might we expect the Police do their job properly, same way they did during the miners strike? Nah, probably not.

dublinhfc
26-08-2009, 09:58 AM
West Ham are only a slighrtly better type of vermin than Milwall.......**** them both and chelsae while we're at it!!!!

in fact add to that, spurs, man utd, burnley, bolton, blackburn etc etc

So what they smashed each other up, leave it to the English police to sort out, why everobne is getting so hot and bothered and overtly PC on a Hibs board bewilders me, should close the thread as its aloadaypash

Steve-O
26-08-2009, 10:08 AM
Obviously not, if they were trying to watch the football they wouldn't see over the stand for a start.

I'm saying it's possible to like fighting and football, if you think all real football fans are angels that wouldn't dare ever fight then your living on a different planet.

Just to make it clear, i'm not some wanna be hooligan or keyboard hard man, i'm just a realist, some football fans are violent and it's no point pretending that anyone who misbehaves at the football must automatically not be a real football fan.

Agreed.

This "not real football fans" is just a tired old cliche that is ALWAYS used after any trouble at games. It doesn't even make any sense.

RoslinInstHibby
26-08-2009, 10:10 AM
why everobne is getting so hot and bothered and overtly PC on a Hibs board bewilders me, should close the thread as its aloadaypash


just cos it doesnt involve hibs, it still doesnt make what happened last night right though does it?

dublinhfc
26-08-2009, 10:38 AM
just cos it doesnt involve hibs, it still doesnt make what happened last night right though does it?


well surely if you feel so strongly about it, maybe a wee petition, or a strongly worded letter to your MP, a one man human bricade of the FA headquarters in London. Or perhaps, god forbid another forum?

Dont see why everyone on here is going so patrick about it in all honesty, all too pc, and over the top. It was disgraceful, shocking and all the rest of it etc etc :blah: :blah:

But for me this is my last comment on it

Steve-O
26-08-2009, 10:41 AM
well surely if you feel so strongly about it, maybe a wee petition, or a strongly worded letter to your MP, a one man human bricade of the FA headquarters in London. Or perhaps, god forbid another forum?

Dont see why everyone on here is going so patrick about it in all honesty, all too pc, and over the top. It was disgraceful, shocking and all the rest of it etc etc :blah: :blah:

But for me this is my last comment on it

I agree.

Beats me why people need to go on 'rants' about something that affects them in no way whatsoever.

I'll be honest and say I don't really care. I watched the news report out of morbid curiosity but I can't say I was outraged at what I saw, it didn't stir any emotion in me whatsoever!

Woody1985
26-08-2009, 10:46 AM
I agree.

Beats me why people need to go on 'rants' about something that affects them in no way whatsoever.

I'll be honest and say I don't really care. I watched the news report out of morbid curiosity but I can't say I was outraged at what I saw, it didn't stir any emotion in me whatsoever!

I was watching it on SSN cos I was interested, and to be honest, I wanted to see a scrap. :LOL:

The way that Phil Thompson was slavering it sounded like the pitch invasion after the goal was crazy. There was about 200 people on the pitch running around jumping on their players. Now, I could understand if they started attacking the Millwall players which they didn't (am quite suprised they never).

No doubt there was a crazy atmosphere at the game, inside and out but the pitcures I've seen seemed fairly timid.

Danderhall Hibs
26-08-2009, 10:47 AM
I agree.

Beats me why people need to go on 'rants' about something that affects them in no way whatsoever.

I'll be honest and say I don't really care. I watched the news report out of morbid curiosity but I can't say I was outraged at what I saw, it didn't stir any emotion in me whatsoever!

Same here. I’ve not even bothered to watch the news yet.

lobster
26-08-2009, 10:48 AM
Beats me why people come on to a discussion thread to say they are not really interested in the discussion. Bizarre.

Antifa Hibs
26-08-2009, 10:48 AM
Police balls up as usual IMO. The last time they played there was 1000 officers on duty. Last night there are reports of 400 on duty, hence they needed back-up. Last time they played there was zero voilence, all fans holding tickets were taking from The Den straight to Upton Park on the tube, all streets closed between the tube station and the away end and all fans put in the stadium. Same scenerio after the game. Last night Millwall fans were allowed to do as they pleased, travel when they want, even those without tickets. Millwall were also entitled to over 3500 tickets, the police restricted this to 2300. A result of this ticketless fans would've been milling around the ground then getting caught up in bother. The match should've been shown on TV aswell, some of the nutjobs outside wouldn't have travelled to Upton Park without a ticket and would've went to their locals 10 miles away.

The media will no doubt have ****fest over this, i wonder if they'll tell us about poor police organisation? More than likely, probably not.

Danderhall Hibs
26-08-2009, 10:50 AM
Beats me why people come on to a discussion thread to say they are not really interested in the discussion. Bizarre.

I see what you’re saying. I started reading the thread too see what everyone was saying but then I realised it was folk just going on a “rant” to make them sound righteous. Personally I can only rant if it's something I care about.

Steve-O
26-08-2009, 10:50 AM
Beats me why people come on to a discussion thread to say they are not really interested in the discussion. Bizarre.

I never said I wasn't interested, I just said I didn't feel the need to have a massive tirade about football hooliganism and spew out cliches about people not being real fans and the likes.

Steve-O
26-08-2009, 10:51 AM
I see what you’re saying. I started reading the thread too see what everyone was saying but then I realised it was folk just going on a “rant” to make them sound righteous. Personally I can only rant if it's something I care about.

And also, what you said. :agree:

lobster
26-08-2009, 10:54 AM
The ranters should be named and shamed!
Personally i'm very interested in issues of football disorder because usually the real events and reasons behind them are covered up/misinterpreted.
My point was that the coppers made an arse of it organisationally. Just an observation not a rant.

Steve-O
26-08-2009, 10:57 AM
The ranters should be named and shamed!
Personally i'm very interested in issues of football disorder because usually the real events and reasons behind them are covered up/misinterpreted.
My point was that the coppers made an arse of it organisationally. Just an observation not a rant.

My gripe is with the ranters and cliche spewing brigade, not the observers :greengrin

marinello59
26-08-2009, 11:13 AM
West Ham are only a slighrtly better type of vermin than Milwall.......**** them both and chelsae while we're at it!!!!

in fact add to that, spurs, man utd, burnley, bolton, blackburn etc etc

So what they smashed each other up, leave it to the English police to sort out, why everobne is getting so hot and bothered and overtly PC on a Hibs board bewilders me, should close the thread as its aloadaypash

Condemning violence is being overly PC?:faf:
As Alan Partridge said when told he couldn't light up a ciggy on the petrol forecourt, "It's political correctness gone mad!"

Jack
26-08-2009, 11:50 AM
The next time, should there be a next time, should probably be behind closed doors at an undisclosed date and time in an undisclosed stadium!

Delayed transmission on the telly.

Sorted.

--------
26-08-2009, 12:02 PM
West Ham vs Millwall? 1500 Millwall allegedly outside the ground 'comin up ere taykin liberties?' A highly likely probability of violence outside and inside the ground. Might we expect the Police do their job properly, same way they did during the miners strike? Nah, probably not.

Sorry - this post you quote came out wrong. Apologies to both you and Antifa. Should have thought longer before I posted.

Primary responsibility has to be placed where it belongs - on the morons who invaded the pitch and went on the rampage. That's not police violence there, nor even 'football' violence, really. It's CRIMINAL VIOLENCE, period.

The Millwall manager claims the Millwall fans were blameless. Chants about Collison's dad, Davenport's injuries, and monkey noises every time Cole got the ball? He must be having a laugh, surely?

I think we'd agree on who the criminals are here. I think we'd probably also agree on who the incompetents are.

Effective policing is more than possible, I agree. Quote Antifa's post:

"Police balls up as usual IMO. The last time they played there was 1000 officers on duty. Last night there are reports of 400 on duty, hence they needed back-up. Last time they played there was zero voilence, all fans holding tickets were taking from The Den straight to Upton Park on the tube, all streets closed between the tube station and the away end and all fans put in the stadium. Same scenerio after the game. Last night Millwall fans were allowed to do as they pleased, travel when they want, even those without tickets. Millwall were also entitled to over 3500 tickets, the police restricted this to 2300. A result of this ticketless fans would've been milling around the ground then getting caught up in bother. The match should've been shown on TV aswell, some of the nutjobs outside wouldn't have travelled to Upton Park without a ticket and would've went to their locals 10 miles away."

Too few police, inadequate organisation, and Millwall fans with a grievance because they weren't allowed their proper quota of tickets, no TV coverage.

Says it all. :agree:

lobster
26-08-2009, 12:15 PM
Sorry - this post you quote came out wrong. Apologies to both you and Antifa. Should have thought longer before I posted.

Primary responsibility has to be placed where it belongs - on the morons who invaded the pitch and went on the rampage. That's not police violence there, nor even 'football' violence, really. It's CRIMINAL VIOLENCE, period.

The Millwall manager claims the Millwall fans were blameless. Chants about Collison's dad, Davenport's injuries, and monkey noises every time Cole got the ball? He must be having a laugh, surely?

I think we'd agree on who the criminals are here. I think we'd probably also agree on who the incompetents are.

Effective policing is more than possible, I agree. Quote Antifa's post:

"Police balls up as usual IMO. The last time they played there was 1000 officers on duty. Last night there are reports of 400 on duty, hence they needed back-up. Last time they played there was zero voilence, all fans holding tickets were taking from The Den straight to Upton Park on the tube, all streets closed between the tube station and the away end and all fans put in the stadium. Same scenerio after the game. Last night Millwall fans were allowed to do as they pleased, travel when they want, even those without tickets. Millwall were also entitled to over 3500 tickets, the police restricted this to 2300. A result of this ticketless fans would've been milling around the ground then getting caught up in bother. The match should've been shown on TV aswell, some of the nutjobs outside wouldn't have travelled to Upton Park without a ticket and would've went to their locals 10 miles away."

Too few police, inadequate organisation, and Millwall fans with a grievance because they weren't allowed their proper quota of tickets, no TV coverage.

Says it all. :agree:
No worries. Apology accepted. Like a perfectly marshalled defence gaining a tough 0-0 draw away from home, it must be very pleasing for the cops when they get it right. When they don't they are culpable. Its the nature of the business they are in. There's no point in blaming the morons because as we all know that's a much broader question. West Ham Utd vs Millwall is undoubtedly one of the toughest fixtures to police in England. On this occasion it would seem that the hooligans won through poor police organisation or inadequate resources or whatever. Either way, someone wasn't up to the challenge.
Cheers.

da-robster
26-08-2009, 12:56 PM
I feel this is very important and will undoubtedly have huge repurcussions this could lead to fines, bad reputation for the english and maybe by the extension scottish game, questions asked by people as too why they're paying for these so called "nutters".Remember the scandal in Italy recently when someone died well there goes the english's moral highground.To say this won't have an effect on football is very shortsighted football is a global game and these events will have global consecuences.

hibsdaft
26-08-2009, 02:09 PM
latest CCTV images released by police:

http://i29.tinypic.com/17uxjs.jpg

iwasthere1972
26-08-2009, 02:11 PM
latest CCTV images released by police:

http://i29.tinypic.com/17uxjs.jpg

You been on Kickback today. :wink:

--------
26-08-2009, 02:15 PM
No worries. Apology accepted. Like a perfectly marshalled defence gaining a tough 0-0 draw away from home, it must be very pleasing for the cops when they get it right. When they don't they are culpable. Its the nature of the business they are in. There's no point in blaming the morons because as we all know that's a much broader question. West Ham Utd vs Millwall is undoubtedly one of the toughest fixtures to police in England. On this occasion it would seem that the hooligans won through poor police organisation or inadequate resources or whatever. Either way, someone wasn't up to the challenge.
Cheers.


It will be interesting to see whether in fact any of the Bad Blue Boys turn up at Tynie tonight, and if they do, how the L&B boys deal with it.

My experience over the years has been that while at rare times they can be a tad overbearing towards peaceable blokes like myself, the general standard of policing at matches in Edinburgh is very high indeed. I'll cope with overbearing if it comes in a job-lot with SAFE.

dublinhfc
26-08-2009, 02:29 PM
Condemning violence is being overly PC?:faf:
As Alan Partridge said when told he couldn't light up a ciggy on the petrol forecourt, "It's political correctness gone mad!"


would have been my last comment, however, the "i've got my knickers in a twist over something brigade" that you so want to be part of are still blethering on.

cue the usual responses - they are not football fans, they are only interested in violence........

My point is if you want to talk on a political level - which you are doing, do it away from a football forum. If you feel so strongly about it, stop sitting talking about it and as i previously said get yourself up to princes st and start a petition, construct a strongly worded letter to someone who gives a toss.

I find it completely embarrassing that you and others have devoted som much of your time to a group of morons you claim to despise, what a sheltered orr boring life you guys must lead. Still no publicity is bad publicity. :yawn:

marinello59
26-08-2009, 02:33 PM
would have been my last comment, however, the "i've got my knickers in a twist over something brigade" that you so want to be part of are still blethering on.

cue the usual responses - they are not football fans, they are only interested in violence........

My point is if you want to talk on a political level - which you are doing, do it away from a football forum. If you feel so strongly about it, stop sitting talking about it and as i previously said get yourself up to princes st and start a petition, construct a strongly worded letter to someone who gives a toss.

I find it completely embarrassing that you and others have devoted som much of your time to a group of morons you claim to despise, what a sheltered orr boring life you guys must lead. Still no publicity is bad publicity. :yawn:

Rather than throwing abuse at me highlight the posts from me on this thread that have offended you.

hibsdaft
26-08-2009, 02:35 PM
wouldn't have thought many would travel, they're through to the group stages and will have 3 big aways coming up :confused:

Danderhall Hibs
26-08-2009, 02:37 PM
wouldn't have thought many would travel, they're through to the group stages and will have 3 big aways coming up :confused:

Who, Millwall?

Luna_Asylum
26-08-2009, 02:44 PM
All that movie glorified was terrible acting and atrocious screenwriting.

good film though

sadtom
26-08-2009, 03:14 PM
Condemning violence is being overly PC?:faf:
As Alan Partridge said when told he couldn't light up a ciggy on the petrol forecourt, "It's political correctness gone mad!"

Just as an aside (doesnt affect your point), but being a Partridge anorak, was it not 'have a barbeque'?

marinello59
26-08-2009, 03:23 PM
Just as an aside (doesnt affect your point), but being a Partridge anorak, was it not 'have a barbeque'?

Probably. I remember the sentiment rather better than I remembered the actual words. Knew there was fire involved though.:greengrin

hibsdaft
26-08-2009, 04:43 PM
Who, Millwall?

oops, wrong thread !!

meant the Croats.......

nonshinyfinish
26-08-2009, 05:52 PM
good film though

No it wasn't.

hibsdaft
26-08-2009, 06:35 PM
You been on Kickback today. :wink:

millwall actually ! :big grin: