Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

[hibby rae]

That's exactly how I see it. Anyone know how long we can expect the Lithuanian courts to confirm bankruptcy?

What if the court rules that the event did take place last week? Do the spl have to vote again regarding relegation this season?

[Danderhall Hibs]

im raging like everyone else! but surely bankruptcy is in the post :confused:

Maybe if we keep saying it over and over it'll happen?

[Skanko79]

Please close this thread. It's gone on long enough and it's clear they aren't going down. In fact they will dodge admin if a owner is comes in soon and gets the club for sweets.

:agree::agree::agree:

[hibeedonald]

511 pages of complete and utter ***** then.

This.

[CropleyWasGod]

Please close this thread. It's gone on long enough and it's clear they aren't going down. In fact they will dodge admin if a owner is comes in soon and gets the club for sweets.

Elucidate.

[Gus Fring]

Please close this thread. It's gone on long enough and it's clear they aren't going down. In fact they will dodge admin if a owner is comes in soon and gets the club for sweets.

They still can't be sold, UBIG assets are still frozen.

A new owner doesn't make ANY of the debt go away! It doesn't matter if its Romanov, Massone or Santa Claus thats running them, A lot of the debt is secured!

[HFC 0-7]

Silly thread title now. They haven't bottled it. UBIG haven't been legally declared insolvent. The courts have to decide not the SPL, unless they want a law suit of their own on their hands.

Change the thread title surely, makes hibs fans sound like pedants and there's many of us that aren't.

Have a look at the spl rules, they make reference of an intention of insolvency, I would say that ubig asking to be made insolvent is an intention?

[steakbake]

It would have to be water tight. We can't have another summer of wrangling like last year. I think the phrase 'on the evidence they have available'...

At the moment there's still a way to go. Anyway, the turkeys get a temporary reprieve but Christmas is just around the corner.

[YehButNoBut]

Please close this thread. It's gone on long enough and it's clear they aren't going down. In fact they will dodge admin if a owner is comes in soon and gets the club for sweets.

No chance they are still in the financial mire and this only delays the inevitable, in many ways it's going to make it more enjoyable and will keep us entertained throughout the summer.

Also think they are likely to lose Tynie very soon as well, it's not going to end up good for them in any shape or form.

[Gus Fring]

It would have to be water tight. We can't have another summer of wrangling like last year. I think the phrase 'on the evidence they have available'...

At the moment there's still a way to go. Anyway, the turkeys get a temporary reprieve but Christmas is just around the corner.

:top marks

Just recieved the following text from my mole/source/birdie

"Arse covering, that's all, this isn't over yet though, awaiting events in Lithuania"

[Oscar T Grouch]

So they get to stay in the SPL. that is not a bad thing, you see they've sold 5k season tickets and are skint, I doubt they will make it to the new season, if they do and then go bust, it will more than likely lead to liquidation, which in my opinion is a better option than administration. The SPL and SFA will be shown up as the idiots they truly are the league will be a bit feked for a year while the bombsite that was hertz get sorted out, maybe we'll get some proper changes to the game, that it really needs.

Any one looking at the hertz situation can see it's a bomb waiting to go off, maist people would chuck said item oot the nearest windae, not the SPL, they hold onto it, just in case the fuse goes oot on its own. Brilliant :wink:

[Twa Cairpets]

Please close this thread. It's gone on long enough and it's clear they aren't going down. In fact they will dodge admin if a owner is comes in soon and gets the club for sweets.

Fret not.

I promise you that they are ******. Like the steam rising of a newly deposited toley, today is but a moment of fleeting warmth before they are laid bare as being as worthless as a dead turd.

They are to all practical intents and purposes a twitching corpse

[JollyGreenGiant]

So if the Lithuanian courts declares UBIG insolvent/bankrupt can the SPL not relegate them retrospectively?

[HibeeMG]

Whatever happened today didn't really matter although relegation would've been funny.

The whole process is already mapped out.

The Lith courts rubber stamp UBIG's insolvency.

SPL give Hearts a 14 point deduction before the season starts.

Hearts go into voluntary admin.

Secured assets are recalled by Lith government/administrator.

Hearts without a stadium and on negative points.

[CropleyWasGod]

:top marks

Just recieved the following text from my mole/source/birdie

"Arse covering, that's all, this isn't over yet though, awaiting events in Lithuania"

Agreed.

The SPL have to tread very carefully here. They are liable to legal action from HMFC, Dundee or even Morton if they get it wrong.

[Saorsa]

I preferred the thread title when it said SPL bottle it because that's the ****in' truth, shower of *****

[hibeedonald]

So they get to stay in the SPL. that is not a bad thing, you see they've sold 5k season tickets and are skint, I doubt they will make it to the new season, if they do and then go bust, it will more than likely lead to liquidation, which in my opinion is a better option than administration. The SPL and SFA will be shown up as the idiots they truly are the league will be a bit feked for a year while the bombsite that was hertz get sorted out, maybe we'll get some proper changes to the game, that it really needs.

Any one looking at the hertz situation can see it's a bomb waiting to go off, maist people would chuck said item oot the nearest windae, not the SPL, they hold onto it, just in case the fuse goes oot on its own. Brilliant :wink:

Seen posts like that for the last few years, all turned out to be pish.

[Bishop Hibee]

SPL washing their hands of this will only delay the inevitable points deduction for next season.

No huge list of buyers willing to buy the club is there?

The countdown continues.

[Ryan91]

Please close this thread. It's gone on long enough and it's clear they aren't going down. In fact they will dodge admin if a owner is comes in soon and gets the club for sweets.

Romanov is currently majority shareholder in Hearts, his assets have been frozen by Lith govt so no sale can take place at moment and it's unlikely his assets are going to be unfrozen any time soon. Ukio Bankas currently hold Tynie and the admins in Lith would probably see more value from selling the ground to a property developer than they would by selling it to someone who might come in and buy Hearts unless they are offering silly money.

The biggest question for me at them moment is, will they even survive to the start of next season? Even if they do they are likely to be sitting on -15 points at the start and will have lost most of their current 1st team squad as cost cutting and will probably be favourites to go down or at the very least be in the relegation play-off spot.

[Gus Fring]

Jamie Borthwick has his eye on the ball

Jamie Borthwick @jamiekborthwick
(http://twitter.com/jamiekborthwick)Interesting bit of precedence from Feb last year. SPL confirmed no 'sporting sanctions' until court appointed administrators to Rangers.

Jamie Borthwick @jamiekborthwick
(http://twitter.com/jamiekborthwick)"A notice of the intention to appoint administrators alone does not trigger the sporting sanctions..."

Jamie Borthwick @jamiekborthwick
(http://twitter.com/jamiekborthwick)"...it is the actual appointment of administrators which does."

This is not over and anyone who thinks it is, is kidding themselves. Once something actually happens at UBIG the SPL will​ be right back on this

[CentreLine]

Romanov is currently majority shareholder in Hearts, his assets have been frozen by Lith govt so no sale can take place at moment and it's unlikely his assets are going to be unfrozen any time soon. Ukio Bankas currently hold Tynie and the admins in Lith would probably see more value from selling the ground to a property developer than they would by selling it to someone who might come in and buy Hearts unless they are offering silly money.

The biggest question for me at them moment is, will they even survive to the start of next season? Even if they do they are likely to be sitting on -15 points at the start and will have lost most of their current 1st team squad as cost cutting and will probably be favourites to go down or at the very least be in the relegation play-off spot.

And its a number they seem very keen on too :greengrin

[Keith_M]

This is exactly what I thought (and posted) would happen last week.

The legal and business systems in each country are very different, so what happened in Lithuania has no exact equivelant here. The SPL have taken the easiest option, that they do not have enough evidence at this time that there was an equivelant to what would be considered under Scottish Law as an 'insolvency event'.


I think a lot of people on here that are so upset got what they wanted to happen mixed up too much with what the likely outcome would be. There's a lot still in the Hearts story yet, so no need to throw yourselves off the rooftops.

[Thecat23]

No chance they are still in the financial mire and this only delays the inevitable, in many ways it's going to make it more enjoyable and will keep us entertained throughout the summer.

Also think they are likely to lose Tynie very soon as well, it's not going to end up good for them in any shape or form.

Been saying that since page 5 I think. I'll believe it now when I see it.

[Mikey]

511 pages of complete and utter ***** then.


Please close this thread. It's gone on long enough and it's clear they aren't going down. In fact they will dodge admin if a owner is comes in soon and gets the club for sweets.


Seen posts like that for the last few years, all turned out to be pish.

Well don't read it then.

[JeMeSouviens]

Have a look at the spl rules, they make reference of an intention of insolvency, I would say that ubig asking to be made insolvent is an intention?

The rules say:



the lodging of a Notice of Intention to Appoint an
Administrator or Notice of Appointment of an
Administrator at the Court in accordance with paragraph
29 of Schedule B1 to the Insolvency Act,


It's a UK insolvency act, so they had to decide if the situation in Lithuania was equivalent. I am guessing that they are hanging the decision on the lack of court involvement at this point. UBIG's intention to bump their creditors was posted on a Lithuanian government website and, as far as we know, there haven't been any court proceedings yet.

It's a bit of a technicality but I can see why the SPL have let them off for now.

They're still absolutely ****ed though. :aok:

[Baldy Foghorn]

Disappointed at Today's ruling, however, this is the start of the merrick's demise.....UBIG will be declared insolvent sometime soon in Vlad land, and there is not a snowball's chance in hell, of the merrick's being able to repay £15million big ones, by the end of next year......

Going to be interesting watching events unfold in Lithuania, and the ramifications for the Merrick's, IMO this has only just started....

[Leithenhibby]

im raging like everyone else! but surely bankruptcy is in the post :confused:


Chill man, it's just the start :wink:

[Sylar]

I'd like to take back what I said earlier about Angelo Massone never being allowed near any other football club again.

He should be given the Tynecastle helm so he can run the *******s into the ground with no dubiety or uncertainty so the serial cheats are finally dealt with.

[Gus Fring]

This is exactly what I thought (and posted) would happen last week.

The legal and business systems in each country are very different, so what happened in Lithuania has no exact equivelant here. The SPL have taken the easiest option, that they do not have enough evidence at this time that there was an equivelant to what would be considered under Scottish Law as an 'insolvency event'.


I think a lot of people on here that are so upset got what they wanted to happen mixed up to much with what the likely outcome would be. There's a lot still in the Hearts story yet, so no need to throw yourselves off the rooftops.

Agreed mate, people are forgetting that this particular chapter only opened on Thursday. Not getting a points deduction for "last" season doesn't change ANYTHING that happened before Thursday.

Christ, the way some posters are pooing the bed you'd think they had been declared debt free and had just signed Messi who agreed to play for free.

Hearts are still on death row, they just haven't gotten to the chair yet.

[1two]

It was never going to happen today

The only precedent set during the the rangers saga was the amount of time it took to get the decision made

Anyone who convinced themselves they were getting relegated tonight was far too optimistic

I don't doubt for a second there is more to come though, and its going to get a lot worse before it gets better from them

[Danderhall Hibs]

Can I be the first to say (and not mean it) that I'll not be back.

[MyJo]

Relegation this season would probably have been a good thing for them as well. As it stands they are facing playing the 13/14 season with a threadbare team and ongoing cash flow problems plus a 15 point penalty when the insolvency of UBIG is confirmed and the very real possibility of losing thier stadium when ukios administrators come calling. If they manage to survive all of that then relegation next season means they are coming up against rangers the year after so no guarantee of going straight back up. It's going to be fun to watch

[Hank Schrader]

For the bed wetters who want this thread closed down today's decision means hee haw. Bottom line is they are still rooked and staring into the abyss. The big pain is coming and I will laugh my genitals off when it happens.

[Treadstone]

Some of the posts about closing the thread. Deary me. Did I miss the SPL ratifying a £25m cash injection for the yams ? Admin and oblivion are coming ! Its just been postponed. It'll be a farewell tour next season and one that may get called off halfway through due to poor ticket sales. :timebomb:

[VickMackie]

I'm guessing someone can make an offer for the stadium and small amount on the debt. If accepted I assume that they could start next season with a clean slate and on zero points.

Can the Admins and soon to be ubig accept a tiny offer for the debt to save the hassle of putting hearts in admin, and then go through months of legal proceedings?

[zosohibee]

No points deduction, but it never would have made news if they werent such a shoddily run little club. With their crumbling stadium, unpaid players and shady Russian sugardaddy they are absolutely not going to get any stronger. I'm almost certain there will be sad, fat, ugly jambos on kickback saying how the club is destined to come through this and re-establish themselves on the top of the footballing Olympus where they belong. TBH what would you say if this was happening at Hibs? Them not going down does mean there will be some games next season to look forward too, i have no passionate hate for Celtic (until next sunday) so i'm glad we'll have derbies to attend. Given the manner in which we absolutely pumped them on their own patch the other week i'd say derbies are going to be a lot more entertaining too. Hearts in the first division would have been hilarious don't get me wrong, but Hearts treading water in the SPL and getting roundly shafted by Hibs on a regular basis... thats just dandy

:flag:

[Part/Time Supporter]

Random point:

If Hearts had finished 18+ points ahead of Dundee, everyone here would be delighted with this ruling.

[Beefster]

Boyd and Goodwillie back on then.

[Gatecrasher]

Aw well just need to wait a little longer until they dot the I's and cross the T's

[JeMeSouviens]

Jamie Borthwick has his eye on the ball

Jamie Borthwick @jamiekborthwick
(http://twitter.com/jamiekborthwick)Interesting bit of precedence from Feb last year. SPL confirmed no 'sporting sanctions' until court appointed administrators to Rangers.

Jamie Borthwick @jamiekborthwick
(http://twitter.com/jamiekborthwick)"A notice of the intention to appoint administrators alone does not trigger the sporting sanctions..."

Jamie Borthwick @jamiekborthwick
(http://twitter.com/jamiekborthwick)"...it is the actual appointment of administrators which does."

This is not over and anyone who thinks it is, is kidding themselves. Once something actually happens at UBIG the SPL will​ be right back on this


He's actually not got his eye on the ball.

The SPL rules as per December 2011 are as he says. The line about "notice of intention to appoint" was added to the rules as per July 2012. So he's out of date. :na na:

I'm presuming the fact the intention was lodged with a govt dept rather than a court is what's got them off.

As you say, just a stay of excution. :wink:

[EdinMike]

This story is faaaaar from over people.

We've waited all these years to get to this stage, just a few more weeks or months and Karma will work it's magic... And anyway we can now turn our attention to Sunday ! :agree:

[matty_f]

Can anyone say they are really surprised at this? Said it last week that nothing would happen.

The pain is in the post for them, though. This just prolongs it.

[blackpoolhibs]

Todays decision is only delaying the end. Also the SPL have now given themselves another summer of misery, because when the courts in Lith land do accept they are insolvent, they will then have a team in THEIR top division relegated before the season starts. They couldn't run a raffle with only 2 tickets to sell.

[Stevie Reid]

Random point:

If Hearts had finished 18+ points ahead of Dundee, everyone here would be delighted with this ruling.

A very good point.

[Hibercelona]

Are they certain to even get a points deduction next season?

Or will that be another decision "bottled"?

[Stevie Reid]

Can anyone say they are really surprised at this? Said it last week that nothing would happen.

The pain is in the post for them, though. This just prolongs it.

It would have been nice, but wasn't expecting anything today. Some of the reactions have been ridiculous.

[JeMeSouviens]

Random point:

If Hearts had finished 18+ points ahead of Dundee, everyone here would be delighted with this ruling.

Random point #2:

All hail Stewart Gilmour: an 8-8-8 with points for the middle 8 wiped would've come in most handy for a team of diddies starting on -15.

[Hibernia Na Eir]

they will now surely be favourites for relegation next season.

[MrHibs1982]

I would've loved hearts to go down this season as with all the losing stadium, players chat etc, wouldn't it have been good for them to be relegated 2 years in a row and bypass playing the huns in div 1 in 2 seasons time and instead be in Div 2 by then?!

[Skanko79]

Well don't read it then.


i tried to read it one day, got about 14 posts in on the first page and was bored to tears. if i had the time which i dont i could trawl through the entire thing and come up with a few belting quotes from folks that claim to be in the "know"

being honest its one of the biggest weeks in our clubs history and all folk are banging on about is hearts. give it up and get behind your own team.

i couldnt give a toss what happens to them.

[kdhibees1]

Relegation for the flumps next season only to be met by Newco Huns. Now that would be worth waiting for.

[Saorsa]

Are they certain to even get a points deduction next season?

Or will that be another decision "bottled"?Maybe they're hoping the people in Lithuania will send the yams tae the wall first tae save them from having tae make a decision. ****in' mealymouthed bawbags

[CropleyWasGod]

He's actually not got his eye on the ball.

The SPL rules as per December 2011 are as he says. The line about "notice of intention to appoint" was added to the rules as per July 2012. So he's out of date. :na na:

I'm presuming the fact the intention was lodged with a govt dept rather than a court is what's got them off.

As you say, just a stay of excution. :wink:

My take on it, too. That is probably the legal advice that they have been given.

[edinburghhibee]

Well I've just walked past slim castle and there are folk blasting their car horns in delight at this... Jokers I think they now believe that's it all is Rosie again.

[Gus Fring]

i tried to read it one day, got about 14 posts in on the first page and was bored to tears. if i had the time which i dont i could trawl through the entire thing and come up with a few belting quotes from folks that claim to be in the "know"

being honest its one of the biggest weeks in our clubs history and all folk are banging on about is hearts. give it up and get behind your own team.

i couldnt give a toss what happens to them.

There's plenty of other threads you can read, you've chosen to not read this one but are complaining about it's content.

Hearts didn't single handedly defeat the Nazi's for people like you to make decisions about what we do and don't talk about. :wink:

[lapsedhibee]

Random point:

If Hearts had finished 18+ points ahead of Dundee, everyone here would be delighted with this ruling.


A very good point.

But if Hearts had finished 18+ points ahead of Dundee, the ruling might well have been different.

[rcarter1]

Relegation for the flumps next season only to be met by Newco Huns. Now that would be worth waiting for.

Indeed. we cant control what is going to happen, but that could actually be a barrel of laughs. Its like Alien vs Predator in reverse - whoever loses - We Win. :cb

Now how about that Cup then? :cup:

[green glory]

For those seething with outrage that they apparently haven't been punished, please arm yourself with the facts before bursting any more blood vessels.

Until a court appoints an administrator. The parent company UBIG are not as yet in administration.

Administration and likely liquidation WILL follow soon, it's now just a formality.

The liquidators will want something for the 79% of Hearts shares owned by UBIG.

Also the stadium is in serious danger, not to mention the tens of millions in debt owed to UBIG which the liquidators are hardly going to walk away from.

Today alters nothing. They're ****ed.

[Thecat23]

Well I've just walked past slim castle and there are folk blasting their car horns in delight at this... Jokers I think they now believe that's it all is Rosie again.

No wonder, I'd be doing the same, knowing how everyone was saying they were down but as usual they scrape by. One good thing though. The team they will have won't be great so we should be able to beat them more often.

[JeMeSouviens]

My take on it, too. That is probably the legal advice that they have been given.

Ah, CWG, you're back. Refreshed and ready for a summertime frenzy of financial fun at the PBS, I presume? :greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

Are they certain to even get a points deduction next season?

Or will that be another decision "bottled"?

If they, or UBIG, go into administration or liquidation, yes.

[21.05.2016]

Well I've just walked past slim castle and there are folk blasting their car horns in delight at this... Jokers I think they now believe that's it all is Rosie again.

Good. If this adds more fuel to their "everything is fabulous" fantasy world then thats good as far as i'm concerned. The more the muppets deluded themselves, the harder reality will hit them. Hearts WILL suffer. Yes, their SPL status has been saved by the skin of their teeth but justice will be served, they will not emerge from this unscathed.


Enjoy it for now jambos :aok:

[Saorsa]

For those seething with outrage that they apparently haven't been punished, please arm yourself with the facts before bursting any more blood vessels.

Until a court appoints an administrator. The parent company UBIG are not as yet in administration.

Administration and likely liquidation WILL follow soon, it's now just a formality.

The liquidators will want something for the 79% of Hearts shares owned by UBIG.

Also the stadium is in serious danger, not to mention the tens of millions in debt owed to UBIG which the liquidators are hardly going to walk away from.

Today alters nothing. They're ****ed.I'm well aware they're still donald ducked, I just want tae see them hammered with everything possible before they go pop.

[Treadstone]

i tried to read it one day, got about 14 posts in on the first page and was bored to tears. if i had the time which i dont i could trawl through the entire thing and come up with a few belting quotes from folks that claim to be in the "know"

being honest its one of the biggest weeks in our clubs history and all folk are banging on about is hearts. give it up and get behind your own team.

i couldnt give a toss what happens to them.

Is someone forcing you to read the thread and post on it ?

[CropleyWasGod]

Ah, CWG, you're back. Refreshed and ready for a summertime frenzy of financial fun at the PBS, I presume? :greengrin


It's becoming an annual event, this close-season stuff. Beats the crap on telly :greengrin

[poolman]

Please close this thread. It's gone on long enough and it's clear they aren't going down. In fact they will dodge admin if a owner is comes in soon and gets the club for sweets.

Simple thing is not to read it if you don't want to

I want to read it

[Andy74]

For those seething with outrage that they apparently haven't been punished, please arm yourself with the facts before bursting any more blood vessels.

Until a court appoints an administrator. The parent company UBIG are not as yet in administration.

Administration and likely liquidation WILL follow soon, it's now just a formality.

The liquidators will want something for the 79% of Hearts shares owned by UBIG.

Also the stadium is in serious danger, not to mention the tens of millions in debt owed to UBIG which the liquidators are hardly going to walk away from.

Today alters nothing. They're ****ed.

I know, but it would have been good fun adding immediate relegation to the list.

[East Stander]

This news is dissappointing, although they may end up still getting a 15 point deduction next season I really cannot see this making much of a difference. We all expect them to have a really poor team but reality is they are unlikely to pay wages that are less than the other clubs apart from Celtic, Aberdeen & us, ultimately they will be able to sign better players than the likes of Partick, St.Mirren, Kilmarnock etc and the 15 points will be recouped. Yes, the huge sums they are due could be an issue but I have no doubt they will squirm a way out of this.

[CropleyWasGod]

This news is dissappointing, although they may end up still getting a 15 point deduction next season I really cannot see this making much of a difference. We all expect them to have a really poor team but reality is they are unlikely to pay wages that are less than the other clubs apart from Celtic, Aberdeen & us, ultimately they will be able to sign better players than the likes of Partick, St.Mirren, Kilmarnock etc and the 15 points will be recouped. Yes, the huge sums they are due could be an issue but I have no doubt they will squirm a way out of this.

How will they do that with no money?

And what are they going to do when the UBIG administrator knocks on their door?

[Jones28]

Delaying the inevitable. Not that I care, us Hibbies have got better things to think about this week :agree:

[Cropley10]

Correct decision by SPL.

However WHEN insolvency is confirmed then they will start next season -15 points.

They will then have a season of real frustration and almost certainly go down.

They will then have to get out of SFL1 at the same time as the Hun.

Death by a thousand cuts.

[Gus Fring]

Another text "They were told this was the only option by the lawyers, they were told anything else would have been overturned quickly in court"

I should state, this person works at Hampden and is reasonably high up. Can't say who for obvious reasons. I'll also state that I rarely believe this "I've got a source" nonsense when it's posted but it's not something I can prove.

[Twa Cairpets]

This news is dissappointing, although they may end up still getting a 15 point deduction next season I really cannot see this making much of a difference. We all expect them to have a really poor team but reality is they are unlikely to pay wages that are less than the other clubs apart from Celtic, Aberdeen & us, ultimately they will be able to sign better players than the likes of Partick, St.Mirren, Kilmarnock etc and the 15 points will be recouped. Yes, the huge sums they are due could be an issue but I have no doubt they will squirm a way out of this.

And you base this on....?
Wages are paid on (or not, as the case may be) on the basis of what your budget is. Even the brightest outlook for Hearts leaves them with a hugely reduced available wage bill.

Why are so many on this thread now turning incontinent?

Hearts are dead, they just don't know it yet.

[brydekirk]

Can I be the first to say (and not mean it) that I'll not be back.

Can I be first to say, why take it out on hibs ?

[Stevie Reid]

This news is dissappointing, although they may end up still getting a 15 point deduction next season I really cannot see this making much of a difference. We all expect them to have a really poor team but reality is they are unlikely to pay wages that are less than the other clubs apart from Celtic, Aberdeen & us, ultimately they will be able to sign better players than the likes of Partick, St.Mirren, Kilmarnock etc and the 15 points will be recouped. Yes, the huge sums they are due could be an issue but I have no doubt they will squirm a way out of this.

This season Hearts only managed to finish 14 points clear of a Dundee team that finished 24 points behind the actual First Division champions, and only found out that they would be playing in the SPL ridiculously late on in the close season.

Partick Thistle are coming up as champions of a very competitive 2012-13 First Division (with only one point less than Ross County had last year), and Hearts are most likely to have a much weaker playing squad than this season. Starting with minus 15 points, if it happens, will leave them a mammoth task to stay up.

[weonlywon6-2]

Todays outcome is only delaying the inevitable.they are still have ahuge financial problem which will come and bite them on the ass

[HFC 0-7]

Jamie Borthwick has his eye on the ball

Jamie Borthwick @jamiekborthwick
(http://twitter.com/jamiekborthwick)Interesting bit of precedence from Feb last year. SPL confirmed no 'sporting sanctions' until court appointed administrators to Rangers.

Jamie Borthwick @jamiekborthwick
(http://twitter.com/jamiekborthwick)"A notice of the intention to appoint administrators alone does not trigger the sporting sanctions..."

Jamie Borthwick @jamiekborthwick
(http://twitter.com/jamiekborthwick)"...it is the actual appointment of administrators which does."

This is not over and anyone who thinks it is, is kidding themselves. Once something actually happens at UBIG the SPL will​ be right back on this

his second tweet is not correct. Apparently a notice to appoint administrators is enough according to the rules.]

the lodging of a Notice of Intention to Appoint an
Administrator or Notice of Appointment of an
Administrator at the Court in accordance with paragraph
29 of Schedule B1 to the Insolvency Act,

[Boyle89]

What a farce. UBIG ask to be placed on the insolvency list but the SPL say they aren't. Seriously jst die already!

[Treadstone]

Another text "They were told this was the only option by the lawyers, they were told anything else would have been overturned quickly in court"

I should state, this person works at Hampden and is reasonably high up. Can't say who for obvious reasons. I'll also state that I rarely believe this "I've got a source" nonsense when it's posted but it's not something I can prove.

Tell us what they had with their cuppas.

[Part/Time Supporter]

Another text "They were told this was the only option by the lawyers, they were told anything else would have been overturned quickly in court"

I should state, this person works at Hampden and is reasonably high up. Can't say who for obvious reasons. I'll also state that I rarely believe this "I've got a source" nonsense when it's posted but it's not something I can prove.

Fair enough (both points).

I'm concerned that they may not have considered the "is UBIG actually a group undertaking of HMFC?" issue yet. As the legal advice may have just focused on the issue of whether UBIG's declaration amounted to an insolvency event, and not got past that point when they decided it didn't.

[Part/Time Supporter]

his second tweet is not correct. Apparently a notice to appoint administrators is enough according to the rules.]

the lodging of a Notice of Intention to Appoint an
Administrator or Notice of Appointment of an
Administrator at the Court in accordance with paragraph
29 of Schedule B1 to the Insolvency Act,

You're misunderstanding that rule. In Scotland, the only way to express a notice of intention to appoint an administrator is to make a court filing. UBIG haven't done that - they have made a filing with a Lithuanian Govt. department.

[Gus Fring]

his second tweet is not correct. Apparently a notice to appoint administrators is enough according to the rules.]

the lodging of a Notice of Intention to Appoint an
Administrator or Notice of Appointment of an
Administrator at the Court in accordance with paragraph
29 of Schedule B1 to the Insolvency Act,

I believe that a "Notice of Intention to Appoint an Administrator" is a document that needs to be filed as part of the process in the UK but the equivelant hasn't been done in UBIG's case yet?

Could be wrong, I'm sure CavershamGreen or CWG will clarify

[Hermit Crab]

Correct decision by SPL.

However WHEN insolvency is confirmed then they will start next season -15 points.

They will then have a season of real frustration and almost certainly go down.

They will then have to get out of SFL1 at the same time as the Hun.

Death by a thousand cuts.

You are if course assuming der Hun will win division 2

[CropleyWasGod]

I believe that a "Notice of Intention to Appoint an Administrator" is a document that needs to be filed as part of the process in the UK but the equivelant hasn't been done in UBIG's case yet?

Could be wrong, I'm sure CavershamGreen or CWG will clarify

Think PTS already has.

That said, I am not clued up on the Lith equivalent. My guess is that the legal advice to the SPL is that it hasn't been, therefore there is no "event" yet.

[HibeeMG]

I believe that a "Notice of Intention to Appoint an Administrator" is a document that needs to be filed as part of the process in the UK but the equivelant hasn't been done in UBIG's case yet?

Could be wrong, I'm sure CavershamGreen or CWG will clarify

Even so, surely somebody at UBIG had to apply to put themselves on that list.

I'm just playing devils advocate as I actually think the right decision was made. It will also turn out to be the more painful process for them too.

[blackpoolhibs]

Can I be first to say, why take it out on hibs ?

Can i be first to say WHOOSH. :greengrin

[MacBean]

Fair enough (both points).

I'm concerned that they may not have considered the "is UBIG actually a group undertaking of HMFC?" issue yet. As the legal advice may have just focused on the issue of whether UBIG's declaration amounted to an insolvency event, and not got past that point when they decided it didn't.

The BBC quotes seem to point that they have ruled that if UBIG do go under then Hearts will suffer - sorry cant post a link.

[Treadstone]

Can i be first to say WHOOSH. :greengrin
:faf:

[Part/Time Supporter]

The BBC quotes seem to point that they have ruled that if UBIG do go under then Hearts will suffer - sorry cant post a link.

That's more than likely to be the case, but HMFC would no doubt still argue against it.

[GreenCastle]

Would have been very funny if they had been put down.

However the next few weeks / months / season are going to be very interesting to see where this all leads - as there is still no clear solution to the massive money problems they have and something is going to seriously give soon - I feel that will be a points deduction at the start of next season that gives all the 11 other clubs a big advantage right from the start and the yams playing catch up.

As as previous poster pointed out - going down would have brought about the siege mentality and longer term may have made them stronger.

Now they are going slowly deteriorate both on and off the pitch and allows us to hopefully beat them a few more times before they completely run dry next year with no Cup Final money etc / Europe money and exiting players fees.

The interesting this is going to be if it all goes wrong before the start of the season or mid season - how that's going to look on the SPL and those in charge.

[MrHibs1982]

http://www.hibs.net/images/hibsnet/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Cropley10 http://www.hibs.net/images/hibsnet/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?p=3612092#post3612092)
Correct decision by SPL.

However WHEN insolvency is confirmed then they will start next season -15 points.

They will then have a season of real frustration and almost certainly go down.

They will then have to get out of SFL1 at the same time as the Hun.

Death by a thousand cuts.





You are if course assuming der Hun will win division 2

And what about the vote on a playoff, sure that will be agreed, so they only need to get 2nd to have a chance to come back up!!!

[Gus Fring]

The BBC quotes seem to point that they have ruled that if UBIG do go under then Hearts will suffer - sorry cant post a link.

That's the info I have (I posted about it the other day iirc)

The SPL is definitely of the opinion that UBIG is the parent company. Hearts can argue they are self sufficient til they are blue in the face, it won't matter because a) the rule doesn't say "unless your self sufficient" and b) the SPL know they haven't been for as long as they claim.

[YehButNoBut]

One thing the BBC article does seem to indicate is that there is no dispute that UBIG is considered to be their parent company.

So when (not if) UBIG do officially enter into insolvency then they will have no option but to dock them 15 points for the start of next season and it is likely they will lose Tynie as well.

TBH I think this was the best outcome today as the Yams (for some reason) think this is cause to celebrate, next season is going to be sooo much fun. :lolyam::yamlaugh::jamboclow


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22599730

[steakbake]

That's the info I have (I posted about it the other day iirc)

The SPL is definitely of the opinion that UBIG is the parent company. Hearts can argue they are self sufficient til they are blue in the face, it won't matter because a) the rule doesn't say "unless your self sufficient" and b) the SPL know they haven't been for as long as they claim.

c) the parent company is the parent company, irrespective of whether the club owned by them is 'self sufficient'.

Bake sales, empty share offers and empty piggy banks, raffles and Skacel pulling pints aside, Hearts are not self sufficient. They can barely pay the wages/suppliers and the tax man. And now we're into the closed season...

[blackpoolhibs]

All thats happened today is the prisoner has appealed his conviction. The death penalty still stands but he has an appeal in to the governor.

The family of the victims are making their way to watch him be strapped to the chair.

Someone will switch it on soon. :greengrin

[GlenrothesHibee]

I'm quite pleased with this decision. They will be certs for the drop next season with or without a points deduction and they will have Sevco to contend with in the first division. This "great escape" has only increasd the dislike for them amongst those in Scottish football. The past will come back to bite them.:fenlon

[EdinMike]

I'm quite pleased with this decision. They will be certs for the drop next season with or without a points deduction and they will have Sevco to contend with in the first division. This "great escape" has only increasd the dislike for them amongst those in Scottish football. The past will come back to bite them.:fenlon

Assuming they get that far, there will be play off places come 2014/2015 so Rankers winning that league might not end their promotion hopes. But this is all hypothetical, and under the assumption they survive the next few months.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Hearts are still on death row, they just haven't gotten to the chair yet.

Quite right, its not time to start chucking the toys out the pram yet.

[Caversham Green]

I won't quote all the posts re notice of intent and Jamie Borthwick's tweets etc, but from what I can see Jamie's points are out of date.

The most relevant part of the rules IMO can be found in the definitions section under Insolvency Event s(g)


Insolvency event means in respect of a Club:-

ceasing or forming an intention to cease wholly or substantially to carry on business save for the purpose of reconstruction or amalgamation or otherwise in accordance with a scheme or proposals which have previously been submitted to and approved in writing by the Board

That's my bold, and the Group Company rule extends the provision to include UBIG in this case. The rules were updated on 3 December 2012.

I can't for the life of me see how a declaration of insolvency fails to fall into the 'forming an intention' box, but the fact that they've taken this approach rather than the distinction between HoMFC and UBIG would suggest that they consider UBIG to fall into the Group Company category and the points deduction will occur when UBIG are declared insolvent by a Lithuanian court. I have to assume they wouldn't be so incompetent or negligent that they didn't consider this aspect at their meeting, so a 15 point deduction next season will be inevitable.

[Pedantic_Hibee]

It's arguably funnier to see the rootin-tootin weirdos blast their horns and paint each others faces (insert joke here) whilst we know full well that the dodgy house of cards is ready to come tumbling down any day soon.

It'll make their demise all the better. They really just don't get it do they? It's almost cruel to find joy at the maxed out ostriches.

[greenlex]

I won't quote all the posts re notice of intent and Jamie Borthwick's tweets etc, but from what I can see Jamie's points are out of date.

The most relevant part of the rules IMO can be found in the definitions section under Insolvency Event s(g)



That's my bold, and the Group Company rule extends the provision to include UBIG in this case. The rules were updated on 3 December 2012.

I can't for the life of me see how a declaration of insolvency fails to fall into the 'forming an intention' box, but the fact that they've taken this approach rather than the distinction between HoMFC and UBIG would suggest that they consider UBIG to fall into the Group Company category and the points deduction will occur when UBIG are declared insolvent by a Lithuanian court. I have to assume they wouldn't be so incompetent or negligent that they didn't consider this aspect at their meeting, so a 15 point deduction next season will be inevitable.
Would the court "backdate" the insolvency? What I mean is would they rubberstamp the insolvency from the 16th? The wording on the SPL Statement reads as if they could revisit their decision on new evidence.

[Caversham Green]

All thats happened today is the prisoner has appealed his conviction. The death penalty still stands but he has an appeal in to the governor.

The family of the victims are making their way to watch him be strapped to the chair.

Someone will switch it on soon. :greengrin

:agree: They've jumped out of the way of a cyclist into the path of a 40-ton truck.

[HibeeMG]

If one of them realises that if they mobilise the 400,000 strong troops into action they could paint a lot of faces and bake a lot of cakes.

That could just be enough to save UBIG from insolvency.

We'll no be laughing then! :panic:

[WestEndHibee]

To be honest now the dust is settling, I enjoyed that last derby so much that I'm looking forward to another at tynie! Things have become much more fun now that they are progressively losing each and every cheat that they used to have. They made it all the more welcoming in that derby by sitting down nice and quiet while we had good old sing and dance, if it wasn't for it being the pbs, one might even say it was a pleasant afternoon.

[Benny Brazil]

It's arguably funnier to see the rootin-tootin weirdos blast their horns and paint each others faces (insert joke here) whilst we know full well that the dodgy house of cards is ready to come tumbling down any day soon.

It'll make their demise all the better. They really just don't get it do they? It's almost cruel to find joy at the maxed out ostriches.

I blame Petrie.

How many more celebrations are we going to miss out on - I really wanted to drive down Easter Road today and blast the car horn to celebrate the fact that we haven't been docked points,relegated or punished for going bust.

[Caversham Green]

Would the court "backdate" the insolvency? What I mean is would they rubberstamp the insolvency from the 16th? The wording on the SPL Statement reads as if they could revisit their decision on new evidence.

I don't think so. The court will probably date their decision on the day they make it and the fact that the SPL have actually given a decision rather than deferring it suggests it's not reversible.

I haven't actually read the SPL statement yet, but I feel if they had doubts they would have adjourned rather than judged.

[Gus Fring]

Heres Ralph Topping explaining it himself.

http://sport.stv.tv/football/scottish-premier/226139-spl-unable-to-rule-out-future-action-against-hearts-after-investigation/

[Hibrandenburg]

Tell us what they had with their cuppas.

Yammy Dodgers

[Gus Fring]

Heres Ralph Topping explaining it himself.

http://sport.stv.tv/football/scottish-premier/226139-spl-unable-to-rule-out-future-action-against-hearts-after-investigation/

Explains it quite well I think, doesn't rule out a points deduction for "last" season either. Doesn't seem to be under any illusions that the rule applies to Hearts' situation, just they don't feel the rule has been broken...yet

Kudos to Ralph for giving in interview I reckon

[MyJo]

I don't think so. The court will probably date their decision on the day they make it and the fact that the SPL have actually given a decision rather than deferring it suggests it's not reversible.

I haven't actually read the SPL statement yet, but I feel if they had doubts they would have adjourned rather than judged.

The decision is quite clear that there was no insolvency in 2012/13. Nothing to say that the insolvency proceedings against UBIG will not result in punishment for hearts in 2013/14 when the insolvency procedures have been taken a few stages further by Ubig to a point where they can say, without challenge, that it constitutes an insolvency event and can apply the points deduction merited without legal challenges etc.

The SPL applying the penalty now would seal their relegation and they would never hear the end of it. Letting them stay in the SPL next season and applying a 15 point deduction nice and early means that Hearts will only have themselves to blame if they are unable to keep themselves in the league over the course of a season. It also keeps one of the biggest clubs and, the biggest matches in the SPL for next season while they are scrabbling for a sponsor for the league for next year.

[greenpaper55]

They are not out of the woods yet , it's only a matter of time until the plug is pulled. Changed days from a year ago when they were all cheering their cheating cup win to this year when they cheated relegation by a baw hair !.

[jacomo]

Love this comment from a random Yam on the BBC story:


Club representatives made this sensible decision about a Club that has been solvent all season.

Here's some solvency for you, from early November 2012:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20241385


The Edinburgh club issued a plea for "emergency backing" from supporters to avoid the prospect of administration.

"This isn't a bluff, this isn't scaremongering, this is reality," read a statement from Hearts.

"Without the support of fans there is a real risk that Hearts could possibly play its last game on 17 November."

Nonetheless, I'm not too displeased with today's decision. The SPL have clearly passed the buck, but I can understand why they are not wanting to get involved in this mucky situation until it's unavoidable.

[Bighoose]

BBC Sport sound just used the #alliscomplex to describe Yams situation. Someone should have copyrighted that.....

[greenlex]

I don't think so. The court will probably date their decision on the day they make it and the fact that the SPL have actually given a decision rather than deferring it suggests it's not reversible.

I haven't actually read the SPL statement yet, but I feel if they had doubts they would have adjourned rather than judged.
Here is the extract that I am alluding to.
Currently available being the thing that catches the eye.


"The board are not satisfied, on the basis of information currently available to it, that an insolvency event (as defined by SPL rules) occurred in respect of UBIG during season 2012-2013."

[Leishy1995]

http://www.baltic-course.com/eng/finances/?doc=75013

Read it. From today.

[SurferRosa]

If Hearts were to try and put themselves into administration once UBIG go under, could UBIG or UKIOs administrator say " woah, no ye dont " and liquidate them forthwith?

Because that would be really, really funny.

[Onion]

I'm quite pleased with this decision. They will be certs for the drop next season with or without a points deduction and they will have Sevco to contend with in the first division. This "great escape" has only increasd the dislike for them amongst those in Scottish football. The past will come back to bite them.:fenlon

Don't follow that logic. IMHO the -15 will just make them more determined than ever and I think they could easily make that up against the weaker teams. Hearts have a great record when up against it.

[Sylar]

http://www.baltic-course.com/eng/finances/?doc=75013

Read it. From today.

So it's been confirmed that an administrator has been appointed yet there isn't enough evidence to declare an insolvency event?

#alliscorrupt, never mind bloody complex...

[NAE NOOKIE]

Not a surprising decision as far as I can see.

In any case any sanction the SPL applied to the Yams today would just be a side show to the main event.

As far as I can see they have no money, have a real chance of losing their stadium and still have to find £15,000,000 in the next 2 years over and above the cost of paying players and running the club.

When we went bust in the 90s STF managed to buy the actual club, including the stadium, leaving the parent company with the debt. I have seen nothing to suggest that the Yams have that option. Or even if they do, it doesnt seem that a white knight is anywhere on the horizon who has the funds to do that.

Would any administrator be willing to sell the PBS to a third party for less than the land it sits on is worth? ... unlikely I would think, so somebody would have to come up with a minimum of £5,000,000 ( I presume ) and thats before any investment in the actual playing side or repairs to the stadium, which lets face it badly needs a new main stand sooner rather than later.

No ............. This is like getting the first question right on who wants to be a millionaire and thinking you will make it all the way to the jackpot as a result.

[Onion]

The decision is quite clear that there was no insolvency in 2012/13. Nothing to say that the insolvency proceedings against UBIG will not result in punishment for hearts in 2013/14 when the insolvency procedures have been taken a few stages further by Ubig to a point where they can say, without challenge, that it constitutes an insolvency event and can apply the points deduction merited without legal challenges etc.

The SPL applying the penalty now would seal their relegation and they would never hear the end of it. Letting them stay in the SPL next season and applying a 15 point deduction nice and early means that Hearts will only have themselves to blame if they are unable to keep themselves in the league over the course of a season. It also keeps one of the biggest clubs and, the biggest matches in the SPL for next season while they are scrabbling for a sponsor for the league for next year.

From villains to media darlings.. the media will be routing for them next season if they get docked points and manage to stay in business.

[LeighLoyal]

Complete non story the insolvency. The current Sevco shenanigans with Sfa are more pertinent, waiting until they investigate themselves no less, and them being allowed sign players is a joke now we know a Sevco season book holder was on on the tribunal, just makes Mcoist demand to know the names even more shameless.

[HibeeMG]

So it's been confirmed that an administrator has been appointed yet there isn't enough evidence to declare an insolvency event?

#alliscorrupt, never mind bloody complex...

It's Ukio Bankas that have had an administrator appointed.

[CropleyWasGod]

So it's been confirmed that an administrator has been appointed yet there isn't enough evidence to declare an insolvency event?

#alliscorrupt, never mind bloody complex...

UBIG haven't had an administrator appointed. The reference in there is to UKIO.

[Part/Time Supporter]

So it's been confirmed that an administrator has been appointed yet there isn't enough evidence to declare an insolvency event?

#alliscorrupt, never mind bloody complex...

It hasn't been confirmed at all. The article mixes up the UBIG and Ukio situations.


Ukio Banko Investicine Grupe, or UBIG, the Lithuanian investment company that controls Scottish soccer club Heart of Midlothian, is bankrupt, Lithuania's Department of Enterprise Bankruptcy Management was quoted by Bloomberg on Monday, cites LETA. The department, part of the Economy Ministry, said that Kaunas-based UBIG, at its own request, had been placed on a list of companies unable or unwilling to meet their obligations.

That's the same as what we knew already from last Thursday.


UBIG is a sister company of Ukio Bankas AB, a lender that Lithuania’s central bank closed in February for risky lending to related parties. UBIG owns 79% of Edinburgh-based Hearts as well as sport, aluminum and real-estate projects in several countries. As reported, Kaunas County Court after considering the applicant's Lithuanian bank statement in early May opened bankruptcy proceedings against bank Ukio Bankas. Following the ruling of the court, company Valnetas was appointed as bankruptcy administrator. As to the background, on February 12, 2013, the Bank of Lithuania restricted activities of Ukio Bankas, with the purpose of protecting public, depositors and other clients' interests. Temporal administrator was appointed. Once the bank was announced insolvent it was decided for the first time to resolve such issue of a bank by transferring a part of assets and liabilities to another bank.

Again, the same as what we already knew. Ukio has had an administrator appointed by the court. It has also gone into a liquidation process which is presently pending appeal.

[Onion]

Assuming they get that far, there will be play off places come 2014/2015 so Rankers winning that league might not end their promotion hopes. But this is all hypothetical, and under the assumption they survive the next few months.

You can see NewHuns and WeeHuns have a Div 1 lovin as they plan and scheme their way back to the SPL. Horrible bunch.

[Hibrandenburg]

Tell us what they had with their cuppas.

Yammy Dodgers

[Waxy]

Don't follow that logic. IMHO the -15 will just make them more determined than ever and I think they could easily make that up against the weaker teams. Hearts have a great record when up against it.But not with a bunch of spotty teenagers.

[Sanger]

So it's been confirmed that an administrator has been appointed yet there isn't enough evidence to declare an insolvency event?

#alliscorrupt, never mind bloody complex...

The article us a word for word reprint of the Bllomberg article from last Thursday and even quotes Bloomberg as the source of government department's quote. I was in contact with the Bloomberg journalist who wrote Thursday's article and all the articles since Ukio Bankas when into administration in February and he says he believes a court will have to officially declare UBIG insolvent but Thursday's declaration by UBIG was the start of the insolvency process. Once that court decision is given the SPL will have to revisit today's decision. The Bloomberg reporter is finding out the date of the court hearing.

[clerriehibs]

But not with a bunch of spotty teenagers.


No ... but they might come up with a significant number of completely above board loanee arrangements.

[blackpoolhibs]

The article us a word for word reprint of the Bllomberg article from last Thursday and even quotes Bloomberg as the source of government department's quote. I was in contact with the Bloomberg journalist who wrote Thursday's article and all the articles since Ukio Bankas when into administration in February and he says he believes a court will have to officially declare UBIG insolvent but Thursday's declaration by UBIG was the start of the insolvency process. Once that court decision is given the SPL will have to revisit today's decision. The Bloomberg reporter is finding out the date of the court hearing.

Is it just a case of the insolvency being ratified by the Lithuanian courts, or can it be denied for any reason?

And if this is ratified by the courts, what kind of time scale are we looking at for this to be confirmed?

[Phil D. Rolls]

I think the title of the St.Mirren article is a tad deceiving.

My take on the article:

The SPL is better with strong clubs in it - which is true.

He wasn't there this morning so doesn't know what's went on/what the situation is.


I don't think so. The court will probably date their decision on the day they make it and the fact that the SPL have actually given a decision rather than deferring it suggests it's not reversible.

I haven't actually read the SPL statement yet, but I feel if they had doubts they would have adjourned rather than judged.

Said it was on the evidence available, suggests it is not exhaustive.


They are not out of the woods yet , it's only a matter of time until the plug is pulled. Changed days from a year ago when they were all cheering their cheating cup win to this year when they cheated relegation by a baw hair !.

:hmmm:

[Waxy]

No ... but they might come up with a significant number of completely above board loanee arrangements.But they will have a transfer embargo on them.

[macca70]

No Insolvency Event?

Am I not correct in saying that UBIG themselves have declared themselves insolvent? How's that no an 'Insolvency Event'?

Baffling.

[Sanger]

Is it just a case of the insolvency being ratified by the Lithuanian courts, or can it be denied for any reason?

And if this is ratified by the courts, what kind of time scale are we looking at for this to be confirmed?

I would imagine there would have to be some due diligence carried by the court as UBIG are Ukio Bankas major bad debtor. In trying to recover as many of the assets of UBIG as possible the court and administrator must ensure UBIG are not hiding any assets. Might take a few weeks to come to court to ensure Ukio Bankas's administrator will find sufficient time to ensue UBIG not hiding assets away. This could mean the court decision comes only weeks before the start of next season. So looks like being another last minute mess!

[Keith_M]

Take from this what you will:



SPL chairman Ralph Topping said: "We acted on the information that was available to us.

"That's not to say that other information will not come forward in the next few days or weeks ahead but we can only deal with what we have got at the moment and on that basis there is no insolvency event under our rules.

"We will need to see what develops on this situation, if indeed anything develops.

"You can appreciate the issues that are involved. We are dealing with Lithuania, we are dealing with Lithuanian law, we are dealing with interpretation of what's happened over there, and looking at it from the perspective of our rules.

"It's good news at the moment. With everything in Scottish football, there is temporary respite."




Source (http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/hearts-safe-for-now-as-spl-rule-ubig-is-not-in-insolvency.1369059524)

[Saorsa]

Take from this what you will:



SPL chairman Ralph Topping said: "We acted on the information that was available to us.

"That's not to say that other information will not come forward in the next few days or weeks ahead but we can only deal with what we have got at the moment and on that basis there is no insolvency event under our rules.

"We will need to see what develops on this situation, if indeed anything develops.

"You can appreciate the issues that are involved. We are dealing with Lithuania, we are dealing with Lithuanian law, we are dealing with interpretation of what's happened over there, and looking at it from the perspective of our rules.

"It's good news at the moment. With everything in Scottish football, there is temporary respite."




Source (http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/hearts-safe-for-now-as-spl-rule-ubig-is-not-in-insolvency.1369059524)That's a matter of opinion

[blackpoolhibs]

I would imagine there would have to be some due diligence carried by the court as UBIG are Ukio Bankas major bad debtor. In trying to recover as many of the assets of UBIG as possible the court and administrator must ensure UBIG are not hiding any assets. Might take a few weeks to come to court to ensure Ukio Bankas's administrator will find sufficient time to ensue UBIG not hiding assets away. This could mean the court decision comes only weeks before the start of next season. So looks like being another last minute mess!

:aok:

[blackpoolhibs]

Take from this what you will:



SPL chairman Ralph Topping said: "We acted on the information that was available to us.

"That's not to say that other information will not come forward in the next few days or weeks ahead but we can only deal with what we have got at the moment and on that basis there is no insolvency event under our rules.

"We will need to see what develops on this situation, if indeed anything develops.

"You can appreciate the issues that are involved. We are dealing with Lithuania, we are dealing with Lithuanian law, we are dealing with interpretation of what's happened over there, and looking at it from the perspective of our rules.

"It's good news at the moment. With everything in Scottish football, there is temporary respite."




Source (http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/hearts-safe-for-now-as-spl-rule-ubig-is-not-in-insolvency.1369059524)

Topping was asked if they had made any enquires in Lithuania about this, he said its not up to them to do make those kind of enquiries, well who is it up to? :confused:

[Mikey]

The article us a word for word reprint of the Bllomberg article from last Thursday and even quotes Bloomberg as the source of government department's quote. I was in contact with the Bloomberg journalist who wrote Thursday's article and all the articles since Ukio Bankas when into administration in February and he says he believes a court will have to officially declare UBIG insolvent but Thursday's declaration by UBIG was the start of the insolvency process. Once that court decision is given the SPL will have to revisit today's decision. The Bloomberg reporter is finding out the date of the court hearing.

:aok:

[Gus Fring]

Topping was asked if they had made any enquires in Lithuania about this, he said its not up to them to do make those kind of enquiries, well who is it up to? :confused:

He was asked if they had spoken to UBIG, his response was that it's not appropriate for them to be chasing organisations. Which is fair enough IMO.

[EuanH78]

So it's been confirmed that an administrator has been appointed yet there isn't enough evidence to declare an insolvency event?

#alliscorrupt, never mind bloody complex...

That just said there is an administrator appointed to Ukio Bankas not to Ubig (yet)

[blackpoolhibs]

He was asked if they had spoken to UBIG, his response was that it's not appropriate for them to be chasing organisations. Which is fair enough IMO.

Really, i'd have thought speaking to UBIG would be the first thing they should have done. They would then have found out it was not the janitor who was asking for insolvency.

[Caversham Green]

Here is the extract that I am alluding to.
Currently available being the thing that catches the eye.


"The board are not satisfied, on the basis of information currently available to it, that an insolvency event (as defined by SPL rules) occurred in respect of UBIG during season 2012-2013."




I think if they had followed that up with a comment to the effect that they would defer judgement until such time as they were satified one way or the other, then there would have been a case for believing they might backtrack but from what I can gather from their statements, and particularly from Ralph Topping's interview, the decision has been made. To backtrack now would give the yams good reason to get even more self-righteous than they are normally.

It's worth noting though, that before Thursday this thread highlighed a multitude of problems besetting HoMFC. Today's events have not lessened those problems one iota and they are still in a worse position than they were before UBIG formed an intention to cease trading. As MyJo points out when (not if) their insolvency is ratified (to the satisfaction of the board's interpretation of the rules) HoMFC will suffer a points deduction to start next season with - if they are still around by that time.

[Kato]

Don't follow that logic. IMHO the -15 will just make them more determined than ever and I think they could easily make that up against the weaker teams. Hearts have a great record when up against it.


Do they? What have they been up against and how is their record against it.

They do have a great record when they've been financially doped.

[Gus Fring]

Really, i'd have thought speaking to UBIG would be the first thing they should have done. They would then have found out it was not the janitor who was asking for insolvency.

I don't imagine UBIG are going to give any information out over the phone anyway, the SPL is probably just another company who'll be phoning them wondering WTF is happening as far as they're concerned. Even if UBIG had said "Yes my scottish friend, we don't have 2 pennies to rub together, we are more goosed than a goose with a goose stuck up its bum" it still wouldn't have changed todays result.

Just now, UBIG saying they are insolvent holds just as much water as Hearts saying they are self sufficient, it's not "official".

Best explanation I've heard today is it's like a marriage. No matter how much 2 people live together, share bills, have kids and call each other husband and wife, it doesn't mean diddly without the piece of paper that says your married. Thursday for UBIG was the equivelant of a proposal, it's the right thing to do but the actual act hasn't been achieved yet.

[#FromTheCapital]

It's worth noting though, that before Thursday this thread highlighed a multitude of problems besetting HoMFC. Today's events have not lessened those problems one iota and they are still in a worse position than they were before UBIG formed an intention to cease trading. As MyJo points out when (not if) their insolvency is ratified (to the satisfaction of the board's interpretation of the rules) HoMFC will suffer a points deduction to start next season with - if they are still around by that time.

:agree: This.

Some of the drama queens on here need to realise that the whole relegation thing would of only been an added bonus had it happened. Just because they got off with that doesn't mean they are safe. Far from it, they are still very much screwed.
Likewise I cringe for the hearts fans who are trying to celebrate this decision and wind us up about it. They are only setting themselves up for a massive fall when the main event begins.

[Spike Mandela]

Ha ha how utterly predictable the SPL board take up their default position of holding a meeting then doing NOTHING.

This bunch of incompetents are only concerned with self interest and self preservation. They are an authority with no authority.

In most cases where a judgement is required there are two sides debating. Those for sanction and those against. in this case the SPL board do not want to be punishing a member club and Hearts are obviously trying to weasel out of any punishment. Today's farce was merely a combined exercise in finding loopholes around the SPLs own rules. A sanction was NEVER going to be applied and NEVER will be by this bunch of avoiders.

Listening to Ralph Topping discussing their lack of info was like listening to Bandersons #allverycomplex bull****.

A 500 page thread:rolleyes:, it will be 500 million pages before the SPL do anything that looks like they are in charge of this joke league.

It will be outside agenies that decide Hearts fate but the SPL will ensure they have the softest landing possible.

[Gus Fring]

Ha ha how utterly predictable the SPL board take up their default position of holding a meeting then doing NOTHING.

...

If the SPL had applied the points deduction today, Hearts would have had it overturned incredibly easily in court which would have done nothing for the SPL's reputation and would have gave Dundee the runaround. As inevitable as UBIG's insolvency might seem, the SPL can't do anything until the rule has actually been broken and at this time, going by the letter of the law, it has not. The SPL have however said they will revisit it if needs be.

[clerriehibs]

He was asked if they had spoken to UBIG, his response was that it's not appropriate for them to be chasing organisations. Which is fair enough IMO.

That almost suggests that they'd only review what anyone brought to the table, as they're above doing any investigating themselves ... and I'd imagine the only people bringing anything to the table would be the yams' representatives, who would just be saying (adopt preston's high pitched nasal whine) "but heartz aren't insolvent, it's our parent company, and the parent company isnae even insolvent anyway, in fact, it's no' even really our parent company anyway, because we've been operating self-sustainingly ever since I can remember"

[Spike Mandela]

If the SPL had applied the points deduction today, Hearts would have had it overturned incredibly easily in court which would have done nothing for the SPL's reputation and would have gave Dundee the runaround. As inevitable as UBIG's insolvency might seem, the SPL can't do anything until the rule has actually been broken and at this time, going by the letter of the law, it has not. The SPL have however said they will revisit it if needs be.

They will do NOTHING. They have not said they will revisit it. They have not deferred a decision until more info available.

The have made a decision that they will not make a decision.:rolleyes:

They don't know what they are doing.

[Eyrie]

Can't get my head round the fact that the SPL doesn't regard UBIG admitting they're insolvent last week as meaning that they are insolvent because a court hasn't yet confirmed it.

But there are some bright spots. Firstly, when the insolvency is confirmed, the Yams will be hit for -15 points to start next season. Then there will be the inevitable failure to pay wages on time which has to mean a points deduction for repeated failures. Add to that a reduced wages budget and reliance on kids that wouldn't get a game on the Meadows and relegation for them next year is a certainty. Meanwhile we will extend our unbeaten run in the derby by three more games (or more depending on cup draws).

And that's before the Lithuanian liquidators start selling off valuable land with development potential to recover some money for their hard pressed taxpayers ......

[Gus Fring]

That almost suggests that they'd only review what anyone brought to the table, as they're above doing any investigating themselves ... and I'd imagine the only people bringing anything to the table would be the yams' representatives, who would just be saying (adopt preston's high pitched nasal whine) "but heartz aren't insolvent, it's our parent company, and the parent company isnae even insolvent anyway, in fact, it's no' even really our parent company anyway, because we've been operating self-sustainingly ever since I can remember"

They spoke to lawyers in Lithuania, just not UBIG. Also, as far as I'm aware Hearts were not represented at the meeting today.

[clerriehibs]

If the SPL had applied the points deduction today, Hearts would have had it overturned incredibly easily in court which would have done nothing for the SPL's reputation and would have gave Dundee the runaround. As inevitable as UBIG's insolvency might seem, the SPL can't do anything until the rule has actually been broken and at this time, going by the letter of the law, it has not. The SPL have however said they will revisit it if needs be.

Can't see it; Topping described it as "good news" for the SPL ... why would he want to go and create "bad news"? They'll interpret the rules however they want to.

Rangers got turfed because of the stance of all the fans of the other teams, and that's the only reason. Had it been down to the SPL board, they'd still be posturing in the SPL. There's no similar uproar about the yams. We might be seriously pissed at their cheating, other teams' fans might be mildly angry, but there's not the same desire for justice as there was when it was company that used to be known as rangers.

homfc ... business as usual for the foreseeable. Cretins.

[Caversham Green]

Ha ha how utterly predictable the SPL board take up their default position of holding a meeting then doing NOTHING.

This bunch of incompetents are only concerned with self interest and self preservation. They are an authority with no authority.

In most cases where a judgement is required there are two sides debating. Those for sanction and those against. in this case the SPL board do not want to be punishing a member club and Hearts are obviously trying to weasel out of any punishment. Today's farce was merely a combined exercise in finding loopholes around the SPLs own rules. A sanction was NEVER going to be applied and NEVER will be by this bunch of avoiders.

Listening to Ralph Topping discussing their lack of info was like listening to Bandersons #allverycomplex bull****.

A 500 page thread:rolleyes:, it will be 500 million pages before the SPL do anything that looks like they are in charge of this joke league.

It will be outside agenies that decide Hearts fate but the SPL will ensure they have the softest landing possible.

As I said on the pm thread, they had the opportunity to impose no penalties at all by applying the group company discretion. As it is they appear to have committed to imposing a penalty next season when (not if) UBIG are sufficiently insolvent to meet the SPL's criteria. I do think they've ignored one of their own definitions of an insolvency event though.

[Spike Mandela]

As I said on the pm thread, they had the opportunity to impose no penalties at all by applying the group company discretion. As it is they appear to have committed to imposing a penalty next season when (not if) UBIG are sufficiently insolvent to meet the SPL's criteria. I do think they've ignored one of their own definitions of an insolvency event though.

I admire your continued rational optimism Cav but I do believe the SPL just won't behave like you would expect other organisations to act. It will be fudge, procastinate, prevaricate and spin all the way.

[Gus Fring]

They will do NOTHING. They have not said they will revisit it.


Can't see it; Topping described it as "good news" for the SPL ... why would he want to go and create "bad news"?

From the article and video entitled: "SPL unable to rule out future action against Hearts after investigation (http://sport.stv.tv/football/scottish-premier/226139-spl-unable-to-rule-out-future-action-against-hearts-after-investigation/)"

Ralph Topping: "Whatever other information may come forward, whatever happens in the course of the next few days or few weeks and I think that will happen, we'll need to have a look at it at that particular point" (approx 2:30 into the video)

He said something very similar on SSN this afternoon as well, I don't have that video handy.

[Kaiser1962]

:agree: They've jumped out of the way of a cyclist into the path of a 40-ton truck.


The puddledrinkers think they have won a watch.

The SPL may have a bit of explaining to do if the Yams implode before the season is out. My money is on November.

[Waxy]

The Lithuanian authorities must know exactly what they're doing.It has to make a difference which division they are in.
An SPL club is worth more than a first division club.

[erin go bragh]

Good news imho , we get to hump them three more times before they get relegated ,then the zombie huns will stop them from winning the first div .

ggtth

[Caversham Green]

I admire your continued rational optimism Cav but I do believe the SPL just won't behave like you would expect other organisations to act. It will be fudge, procastinate, prevaricate and spin all the way.

My post was more mitigation than absolution. I don't think their decision was the right one based on their own rules but they could have applied those rules to let HoMFC off completely. As it stands I don't see how the yams can possibly start next season without a points deduction, so the decision is a bit of a curate's egg as far as I'm concerned.

In any case it could well all be academic as HoMFC may not be able to start next season at all.

[Treadstone]

Anyone listen to Sportsound they were suggesting it was a single employee who went to the government agency to declare insolvency! They had no idea of standing at UBIG or their motivation. Bizarre stuff.

[Springbank]

My post was more mitigation than absolution. I don't think their decision was the right one based on their own rules but they could have applied those rules to let HoMFC off completely. As it stands I don't see how the yams can possibly start next season without a points deduction, so the decision is a bit of a curate's egg as far as I'm concerned.

In any case it could well all be academic as HoMFC may not be able to start next season at all.

That last bit is the part the yams have some serious catch up to do

Buying an insolvent club with serious debts, when you're buying from a liquidated company whose finances are the subject of criminal investigation

Good luck to the yam people's front with that one

[Chibs]

The decision today was nothing more than a stay of execution.
Personally I am so looking forward to to the next days , weeks and perhaps months but their demise
is certain.
GGTTH

[Mikey]

Anyone listen to Sportsound they were suggesting it was a single employee who went to the government agency to declare insolvency! They had no idea of standing at UBIG or their motivation. Bizarre stuff.

The signatory was Rita Matūzienė, Director and Board Member of UBIG. Certainly not a janitor :rolleyes:

It took the clever chaps on the PM board about 15 minutes to work that one out.

How come Topping and his pals couldn't?

[jgl07]

My post was more mitigation than absolution. I don't think their decision was the right one based on their own rules but they could have applied those rules to let HoMFC off completely. As it stands I don't see how the yams can possibly start next season without a points deduction, so the decision is a bit of a curate's egg as far as I'm concerned.

In any case it could well all be academic as HoMFC may not be able to start next season at all.

The point is that it will leave the SPL with major problems. Morton will be promoted with no time to prepare a team for the SPL. If Hearts are punted now, Dundee remain and it will be the SFL's problem.

[Paisley Hibby]

As I said on the pm thread, they had the opportunity to impose no penalties at all by applying the group company discretion. As it is they appear to have committed to imposing a penalty next season when (not if) UBIG are sufficiently insolvent to meet the SPL's criteria. I do think they've ignored one of their own definitions of an insolvency event though.

Spot on Cav. Anybody with even a tiny understanding of legal issues can see that just by reading their rules. So their statement is absolutely baffling. I can only think that the SPL must be banking on this story being covered by football not business journalists. As we all know, Scottish fitba journalists are not the brightest in the profession and generally haven't a clue about this kind of thing. They will just swallow any old pish they are fed by the big clubs and the fitba authorities.

Personally, after today, if the SPL told me it was sunny outside I'd go and get my umbrella.

[Sanger]

The signatory was Rita Matūzienė, Director and Board Member of UBIG. Certainly not a janitor :rolleyes:

It took the clever chaps on the PM board about 15 minutes to work that one out.

How come Topping and his pals couldn't?


And Brian McLaughlin suggesting a junior employee informing a local government official when it is on the website if the national debt management agency a department of the ministry of the economy. Complete bunch of chancres. But their time will come soon.

[CropleyWasGod]

The signatory was Rita Matūzienė, Director and Board Member of UBIG. Certainly not a janitor :rolleyes:

It took the clever chaps on the PM board about 15 minutes to work that one out.

How come Topping and his pals couldn't?

Ex-director :greengrin

[Mikey]

Ex-director :greengrin

Floor sweeper :greengrin

[Jonnyboy]

And Brian McLaughlin suggesting a junior employee informing a local government official when it is on the website if the national debt management agency a department of the ministry of the economy. Complete bunch of chancres. But their time will come soon.

Jambo, so don't believe a word of what he says :greengrin

[clerriehibs]

The signatory was Rita Matūzienė, Director and Board Member of UBIG. Certainly not a janitor :rolleyes:

It took the clever chaps on the PM board about 15 minutes to work that one out.

How come Topping and his pals couldn't?

Because when you're whitewashing, you don't want anything that will spoil your finish?

[CropleyWasGod]

Because when you're whitewashing, you don't want anything that will spoil your finish?

Conversely, if you are not sure of the authority of the signatory, you can't make decisions that might be challenged in Court.

[Gus Fring]

Imagine if this Rita wifey had done all of this out of spite and the SPL had punished Hearts, what a balls up that would have been.

(Not saying that's what's happened, just saying it's reasons like this the SPL isn't jumping in two-footed)

[fat freddy]

Ex-director :greengrin

a senior figure in the romanov organisation for well over a decade....i typed a google search on her and ended up reading about a bizzare 7 million dollar swindle perpetrated by the romanovs and this charming lady....they stung an alluminium company for the dosh with an elaborate con involving bogus companies based in wisconsin and elsewhere...very clever stuff from the romanovs but it highlights how utterly devoid of morals they are.

[clerriehibs]

Conversely, if you are not sure of the authority of the signatory, you can't make decisions that might be challenged in Court.

so why wouldn't you find out, given it's material to the issue?

[CropleyWasGod]

so why wouldn't you find out, given it's material to the issue?

I am assuming the legal advice was "she's not authorised to make the call, therefore it's possibly not valid."

Edit... particularly in view of her alleged poor reputation.

[CropleyWasGod]

a senior figure in the romanov organisation for well over a decade....i typed a google search on her and ended up reading about a bizzare 7 million dollar swindle perpetrated by the romanovs and this charming lady....they stung an alluminium company for the dosh with an elaborate con involving bogus companies based in wisconsin and elsewhere...very clever stuff from the romanovs but it highlights how utterly devoid of morals they are.

... and, perhaps, another reason not to believe the validity of her declaration?

[blackpoolhibs]

I am assuming the legal advice was "she's not authorised to make the call, therefore it's not valid."

Who would be authorised to make that call if whole board have resigned?

[CropleyWasGod]

Who would be authorised to make that call if whole board have resigned?

Nae idea. :greengrin

If such a situation arose in the UK.... and that would be illegal.... no-one could. Only the Court could do it.

[clerriehibs]

a senior figure in the romanov organisation for well over a decade....i typed a google search on her and ended up reading about a bizzare 7 million dollar swindle perpetrated by the romanovs and this charming lady....they stung an alluminium company for the dosh with an elaborate con involving bogus companies based in wisconsin and elsewhere...very clever stuff from the romanovs but it highlights how utterly devoid of morals they are.

The romanovs, and any yam that has pinned their flag on the romanov periscope, i.e. 99.9% of them.

[YehButNoBut]

Find it hilarious that most Hearts fans see today as a great victory for them, they still don't seem to get that they are still in deep dodo. :ostrich::vladsheep:

[Treadstone]

Find it hilarious that most Hearts fans see today as a great victory for them, they still don't seem to get that they are still in deep dodo. :ostrich::vladsheep:

Exactly. A deduction today would have been great but there was a way out for the SPL and they took it. This might actually play out a lot more slowly and painfully for yam land.

[Sanger]

a senior figure in the romanov organisation for well over a decade....i typed a google search on her and ended up reading about a bizzare 7 million dollar swindle perpetrated by the romanovs and this charming lady....they stung an alluminium company for the dosh with an elaborate con involving bogus companies based in wisconsin and elsewhere...very clever stuff from the romanovs but it highlights how utterly devoid of morals they are.


Reading about Rita and Romanov's scam you would imagine they and the other board members have money hidden all over the place. Probably why they all resigned in masse before Ukio Bankas bankruptcy moved in.

[Gus Fring]

So to clarify, is the possibility now that the person who said that UBIG were insolvent may not have been authorised to do so?

[greenginger]

So to clarify, is the possibility now that the person who said that UBIG were insolvent may not have been authorised to do so?

UBIG has no directors, Rita Matuziene was a former director and is still the Chief Executive Officer of UBIG, so I would reckon she was the ONLY person with the authority.

[Leithenhibby]

So, after a long day on :hnet: it's back to the "if's, but's & mibbies" which I like. :wink: I mean, it's not as if the wheels have come off or anything, and it's looking like they (HoMFC) will meet their maker in the not too distant future.

Once UBIG get their call-up to the local courthouse and everything gets rubber stamped, I'd think that's when the real end game will kick in.

As long as we have a cr@p summer (weather wise) I'll be able to keep up. :aok:

[Sergey]

UBIG has no directors, Rita Matuziene was a former director and is still the Chief Executive Officer of UBIG, so I would reckon she was the ONLY person with the authority.

It's amazing the info that £10 for PM gets you, eh :greengrin

[7062]

Just had a wee look back at previous SPL tables to see what points the teams finishing bottom had. Average was 28.(Lowest was 18, highest was 37.)

If they end up starting on -15 next season it's not just 15 points they need to make up, they need to catch the team sitting 2nd bottom (obviously) so they'll potentially need about 43 points just to draw level.

Assuming they'll be worse next season, this makes me happy.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Just had a wee look back at previous SPL tables to see what points the teams finishing bottom had. Average was 28.(Lowest was 18, highest was 37.)

If they end up starting on -15 next season it's not just 15 points they need to make up, they need to catch the team sitting 2nd bottom (obviously) so they'll potentially need about 43 points just to draw level.

Assuming they'll be worse next season, this makes me happy.

Ok now who was talking about League recon?

[poolman]

The signatory was Rita Matūzienė, Director and Board Member of UBIG. Certainly not a janitor :rolleyes:

It took the clever chaps on the PM board about 15 minutes to work that one out.

How come Topping and his pals couldn't?


Bit cheap that, I'm a janitor

We're all not accountants and stockbrockers

[Eyrie]

Having read the latest I can understand where the SPL are coming from, but surely they could have said that further investigations are required and a decision will be made by (say) mid-June?


Bit cheap that, I'm a janitor

We're all not accountants and stockbrockers
Well, someone has to do the actual work and look after them.

[ScottB]

Bit cheap that, I'm a janitor

We're all not accountants and stockbrockers

I believe it was Topping who said something like 'we don't know who signed the UBIG letter, it could have been a janitor for all we know' rather than anyone here choosing it as an example...

[The Green Goblin]

The signatory was Rita Matūzienė, Director and Board Member of UBIG. Certainly not a janitor :rolleyes:

It took the clever chaps on the PM board about 15 minutes to work that one out.

How come Topping and his pals couldn't?

Well, now that you've posted it on here, expect to hear all about her on Sportsound in the next few days.

Hibs.net: your leading news provider. :greengrin

[Sanger]

Bit cheap that, I'm a janitor

We're all not accountants and stockbrockers

And janitors did not cause a financial crash leading to misery for millions. They actually do something useful.

[Moulin Yarns]

I just googled this Rita bloke and it turns out she is a legal bod as well. Why didn't (dream) Topping not ask her for her legal opinion?? :wink:

[greenpaper55]

The Jambos are rejoicing that they never got docked the points but the crucial thing for me was the fact that UBIG are seen by the SPL as the major stakeholder in Hearts and therefore if and when the go bust they will be docked points , it's not over yet.

[matty_f]

It's like cheering because the executioner has forgotten his rope and has had to pop home for it.

[Kato]

This is all getting too much for a couple of Jambos I know and is really akin to Bear Baiting. Either pull the plug now or make it legal to pen them up and sell pointy sticks at the side.

[clerriehibs]

The Jambos are rejoicing that they never got docked the points but the crucial thing for me was the fact that UBIG are seen by the SPL as the major stakeholder in Hearts and therefore if and when the go bust they will be docked points , it's not over yet.

I don't really think they have even thought about that yet.

[greenginger]

It is a sort of victory for them. Relegation to the first division would have ended them, they would never be able to generate the income required to service the debts due to UBIG, Ukio Bankas, HMRC and the rest.

They would have to have gone for administration and be reliant on HMRC to agree to a CVA or it would be oblivion.

The SPL must have known this, so they bent their own rules to fudge the decision. However the Yams being the Yams they will never learn. Watch out for world cup stars turning up at a Pink Bus Shelter near you.

With their season ticket money spent getting through last season and the close season, and huge monthly interest and repayment bills to pay monthly it will take one hell of a lot of cake bakes to keep them running.

[Mister P]

Come gather round jambos
Wherever you roam
And admit that the waters around you have grown,
And accept it that soon you'll be drenched to the bone,
If your club to you is worth saving,
Then you better start swimming or you'll sink like a stone,
Coz the times they are a-chaaaaaangin!!




If/when they drop onto div1, they will not be able to service those debts. Does that mean they themselves will have to file for insolvency, create a newco and start anew just like rangers in the div3?

Serious question!

[Caversham Green]

It's like cheering because the executioner has forgotten his rope and has had to pop home for it.

Or he's forgotten his axe so he's going to use his penknife instead.

[Treadstone]

It's like cheering because the executioner has forgotten his rope and has had to pop home for it.

Its like finding a tenner in the middle of the road just before an eighteen wheeler smashes right into you.

[Kato]

I don't really think they have even thought.

Fixed that for you there.

[greenginger]

http://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/rolls/sheriff/lists/edi/edi130527.htm

I see Hearts are still pursuing one of their supporters for a hospitality package from a few years back. I hope they did'nt send a begging letter to Mr Ramez Daher looking for a pledge.

Course they will be begging everyone else to forgive their debts.

[lapsedhibee]

It's like cheering because the executioner has forgotten his rope and has had to pop home for it.


This is all getting too much for a couple of Jambos I know and is really akin to Bear Baiting. Either pull the plug now or make it legal to pen them up and sell pointy sticks at the side.

:greengrin

[Paisley Hibby]

So to clarify, is the possibility now that the person who said that UBIG were insolvent may not have been authorised to do so?

Yes. So if it turns out that as at the 16 May they WERE authorised (or had the power) to make that statement, then the SPL rule is triggered. And as the date of that "insolvency event" was before the end of the season they could still get the points deduction and be relegated. Or am I missing something?

[Pedantic_Hibee]

Its like finding a tenner in the middle of the road just before an eighteen wheeler smashes right into you.

It's like meeting the man of your dreams.....and then meeting his beautiful wife.

Yours,

Alanis

[Caversham Green]

So to clarify, is the possibility now that the person who said that UBIG were insolvent may not have been authorised to do so?

It appears UBIG had no directors, so arguably no-one has the authority to voluntarily list them as insolvent.

If that is the case it's also true that no-one had the authority to sanction the finance that UBIG provided to HoMFC in March - a company without directors can't function legally. It looks like someone has acted fraudulently in providing that finance, and given that HoMFC's directors were also the directors that removed themselves from UBIG's board, the finger is pointing in the direction of Gorgie.

Of course that loan also gives the lie to the idea that HoMFC were independent of UBIG. They were insolvent until that finance was provided two months ago - by a company that had no-one to authorise it.

[Sanger]

It appears UBIG had no directors, so arguably no-one has the authority to voluntarily list them as insolvent.

If that is the case it's also true that no-one had the authority to sanction the finance that UBIG provided to HoMFC in March - a company without directors can't function legally. It looks like someone has acted fraudulently in providing that finance, and given that HoMFC's directors were also the directors that removed themselves from UBIG's board, the finger is pointing in the direction of Gorgie.

Of course that loan also gives the lie to the idea that HoMFC were independent of UBIG. They were insolvent until that finance was provided two months ago - by a company that had no-one to authorise it.


What are the details of UBIG financing Hearts in March?

[Caversham Green]

What are the details of UBIG financing Hearts in March?

The note in the accounts says:


The amounts owed to ...[UBIG]....fell due for repayment on various dates between 31 July 2012 and 31 December 2012. In March 2013, [UBIG] extended the maturity of the debt until at least March 2015, with repayments of £20,000 per month commencing from April 2013.

UBIG had no directors in March 2013 and so were in no position to authorise that refinancing.

[Waxy]

£20,000 a month for how many years? 80?

[Caversham Green]

£20,000 a month for how many years? 80?

Two.

Doesn't work, does it?

[Fife-Hibee]

The note in the accounts says:



UBIG had no directors in March 2013 and so were in no position to authorise that refinancing.
So how are they still trading ? That alone should be enough to finnish them ! Or am i missing something !

[Waxy]

Two.

Doesn't work, does it?Well i don't get it.Must be too complex for me.

[bighairyfaeleith]

It appears UBIG had no directors, so arguably no-one has the authority to voluntarily list them as insolvent.

If that is the case it's also true that no-one had the authority to sanction the finance that UBIG provided to HoMFC in March - a company without directors can't function legally. It looks like someone has acted fraudulently in providing that finance, and given that HoMFC's directors were also the directors that removed themselves from UBIG's board, the finger is pointing in the direction of Gorgie.

Of course that loan also gives the lie to the idea that HoMFC were independent of UBIG. They were insolvent until that finance was provided two months ago - by a company that had no-one to authorise it.

When did the directors resign though, was it not april?

[Sanger]

The note in the accounts says:



UBIG had no directors in March 2013 and so were in no position to authorise that refinancing.

That was an extension of the loan's maturity not fresh financing. Agree there was no elected directors to authorise it. Don't when the loan was originally going to be due for re-payment but clearly Hearts are not able to at any time. The £15 million loan to Ukio Bankas due this summer that they have a claim of Tynecastle on. Another £40.8 million lent to UBIG that was lent to Hearts (£22 million UBIG converted to equity by and £8.8 million forgiven by the Panama company),

[Treadstone]

When did the directors resign though, was it not april?

February, this article dated in March said they resigned the previous week. (Feb 27)

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-03-04/hearts-romanov-fedotovas-resign-from-ubig-board-bns-reports.html

[Caversham Green]

That was an extension of the loan's maturity not fresh financing. Agree there was no elected directors to authorise it. Don't when the loan was originally going to be due for re-payment but clearly Hearts are not able to at any time. The £15 million loan to Ukio Bankas due this summer that they have a claim of Tynecastle on. Another £40.8 million lent to UBIG that was lent to Hearts (£22 million UBIG converted to equity by and £8.8 million forgiven by the Panama company),

They call it an extension in the accounts, but of the £25m that was due, £15m was fobbed off on a soon to be bankrupt bank, the interest rates were changed, new terms of repayment were agreed and the maturity date was changed - for all practical purposes it was a new loan. But either way we are agreed that UBIG was not in a position to legally make such a transaction.

[Kato]

Two.

Doesn't work, does it?

#allverycomplex

Simple really. UB is goosed, UBIG is having their feathers attached and as we speak a large beak and a downie straight-jacket is being prepared for HMFC. (Sorry for talking financial jargon).

[Platinum Scotty]

Being a simple chap i have to be honest and say that it seems like a whole lot of smoke and mirrors from the PBS mob and it looks like its been bought by the Scottish Football folks...

To me, with a bit of digging (by the right folk on here), all the information is there and the authorities in Scotland just seem to be happy, as per the BBC etc, to beleive what ever level of pants the PBS lot spout.....

Hopefully they will feel the real pain they deserve soon!

[Ozyhibby]

Will Ubig and Ukio have the same administrators?

[Sanger]

Will Ubig and Ukio have the same administrators?


Ukio Bankas's administrator once the appeal is lost will call in UBIG's loans which are much bigger than those loaned on to Hearts and when they fail to pay which they have declared anyway by their insolvency declaration, ask for them to be made bankrupt by a court.

[Smiggy 7-0]

If the information on this thread is so easy to obtain, then why have SPL not acted as they should be able to get same information IF they choose to. Someone should be pointing Dundee's lawyers towards this info.
SOMETHING SMELLS VERY FISHY!!!!!
Crooked B*****ds.

[Sanger]

Being a simple chap i have to be honest and say that it seems like a whole lot of smoke and mirrors from the PBS mob and it looks like its been bought by the Scottish Football folks...

To me, with a bit of digging (by the right folk on here), all the information is there and the authorities in Scotland just seem to be happy, as per the BBC etc, to beleive what ever level of pants the PBS lot spout.....

Hopefully they will feel the real pain they deserve soon!


One day soon the way they are behaving Hearts will cease to exist. Sheriff's officers will change the locks and chain up Tynecastle with the players and staff locked out and the SPL one team short!

[basehibby]

Being a simple chap i have to be honest and say that it seems like a whole lot of smoke and mirrors from the PBS mob and it looks like its been bought by the Scottish Football folks...

To me, with a bit of digging (by the right folk on here), all the information is there and the authorities in Scotland just seem to be happy, as per the BBC etc, to beleive what ever level of pants the PBS lot spout.....

Hopefully they will feel the real pain they deserve soon!

:agree: That's probably true, but to be fair you can sort of understand why they're not falling over themselves to have another major insolvency event on their hands and are keen not to be seen to be putting the boot in to the Yams gratuitously - I think we can rest assured though that they are merely delaying the inevitable.

[Ozyhibby]

So the stadium and the club will become separated early in the process. The stadium under the control of Ukio admins and the club with Ubig admins.
Does that sound right?

[Sanger]

So the stadium and the club will become separated early in the process. The stadium under the control of Ukio admins and the club with Ubig admins.
Does that sound right?


Both under Ukio Bankas administrator's control - Tynecastle is a claim for HMFC debt of £15 million to the bank and Ukio Bankas hold 79% of HMFC shares as claim against £22 million loan to UBIG that was lent to HMFC that UBIG converted to shares ( this loan was originally used to pay off overdraft to Bank of Scotland when Romanov took over)

[Treadstone]

:agree: That's probably true, but to be fair you can sort of understand why they're not falling over themselves to have another major insolvency event on their hands and are keen not to be seen to be putting the boot in to the Yams gratuitously - I think we can rest assured though that they are merely delaying the inevitable.

:agree:

Why take a borderline decision when future events will probably overtake and make it a sentence rather than a judgement.

[HoboHarry]

:agree: That's probably true, but to be fair you can sort of understand why they're not falling over themselves to have another major insolvency event on their hands and are keen not to be seen to be putting the boot in to the Yams gratuitously - I think we can rest assured though that they are merely delaying the inevitable.
I agree with that, I think they probably made the decision to let natural selection takes it's course. The legalities/courts etc will finish Hearts and there will be no blame attached to the football authorities in Scotland

[Waxy]

Hearts are not the first and wont be the last to go bust.
Bigger clubs them them have died.
It's touch and go if they come back though.
It'll take years.Through some sort of phoenix club obviously.
They'd have to enter at the bottom of the pyramid.IF they are allowed.
Probably have to spend the first few years renting a pitch in the gyle park before groundsharing with Lothian thistle.
This will probably take around 10 years.
Perhaps another 10 to make it to the league and get a ground of there own ,hopefully out currie/balerno way.
By this time there'll be few of them left.Gates of 500 as Edinburghs third team behind Spartans and Hibs whose gates have almost doubled since their demise.

Well.That's the best case scenario for them.

[Waxy]

Zombie Hearts.Thats what they are now.

[Springbank]

Even if hearts somehow kick a ball next season, their team is so denuded from the cheating allisbarry years that their crowds will hit 7k after new year

[lapsedhibee]

Even if hearts somehow kick a ball next season, their team is so denuded from the cheating allisbarry years that their crowds will hit 7k after new year

Jeezo, don't start hinting at a team of naked youngsters in that place. Crowds will rocket.

[The Green Goblin]

Even if hearts somehow kick a ball next season, their team is so denuded from the cheating allisbarry years that their crowds will hit 7k after new year

As disappointed as I am in yesterday's decision, part of me equally wants to see us play that Hearts team again next year.....

[Treadstone]

As disappointed as I am in yesterday's decision, part of me equally wants to see us play that Hearts team again next year.....

Or the even weaker version of next season (not including Goodwillie and Boyd :faf:)

[ScottB]

As disappointed as I am in yesterday's decision, part of me equally wants to see us play that Hearts team again next year.....

Most definitely. If they manage to stagger their way into next season (seems unlikely to me though), then I'd be delighted for us to hammer their even weaker side 3 times and extend our unbeaten run against them to 8 before relegation / liquidation takes them.

[Billy Whizz]

As disappointed as I am in yesterday's decision, part of me equally wants to see us play that Hearts team again next year.....

Probably only get 1 Derby in the league at ER next season, new year game, as we'll be in the Top 6 and they won't

[PatHead]

Or the even weaker version of next season (not including Goodwillie and Boyd :faf:)

...................and Berra who many think is desperate to come back.

[MB62]

Even if hearts somehow kick a ball next season, their team is so denuded from the cheating allisbarry years that their crowds will hit 7k after new year

Their average attendance was down slightly on last season, whilst our was up by around 500, this despite no game against Oldco.

[JeMeSouviens]

Their average attendance was down slightly on last season, whilst our was up by around 500, this despite no game against Oldco.

Despite getting a crowd boost by declaring some games could be their "last ever". :rolleyes:

[EdinMike]

Despite getting a crowd boost by declaring some games could be their "last ever". :rolleyes:

And the free tickets they gave away...

Anyway, another one bites the dust..

http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/articles/20130521/mehdi-leaves-hearts_2241384_3186420

Guess which game gets a mention too !

[YehButNoBut]

Just been looking through some of the comments from Hearts fans on the Scotsman (something I don't do often as it's full of complete loonies) anyway the general opinion of Hearts fans is that there is some White Knight about to rescue them by buying the club before some 30 day rule which means no penalty points next season and because of this they will start next season debt free and without any points deduction.

Are they really that deluded are just living in the land of make believe. :ostrich: :titanic:

Some of their comments below

The Source - For the hard of thinking that read these posts, let me explain a few things. Hearts will be bought by a group, not an individual. Hearts will be sold for c£5m, possibly up to as much as £7m, but no more than that. The purchase will take place within the 30 day period UBIG have to withdraw their insolvency application. (meaning no penalty points for Hearts). UBIG will liquidate after that time. Assuming the price is £5m (for easy maths), it means the creditors of Ubig will secure 20p in the £ for the debt currently being carried by UBIG/Ukio Bankas.

Under normal administration/liquidation, the figure would be around 5 to 10p in the £. This represents an excellent opportunity for UBIG's creditors to salvage some return on their debt. These discussions are already at an advanced stage, and, will be concluded within the next fortnight/three weeks. Hearts will then be debt free, and start next season in the SPL in the strongest position they have been in for over 30 years. There may be some negotiating over the terms of the sale of Tynecastle, but, worst case scenario is a lease/buy back arrangement spread over an extended period of time.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Milky Bar Kid - UKIO Bankas is bankrupt. UBIG is insolvent and its assets are frozen.

A formal offer for the Romanov-controlled 94% shares has been made to the Lithuanian administrators, Valnetas UAB. (including Julija Goncaruk's 15%)

Hearts FC will have new owners as soon as the legals have been formalised and a due diligence inspection of the management accounts has been carried out.

Hearts FC will continue to trade as a going concern, with NO debt.

Hearts FC will rent Tynecastle Stadium for at least the next three seasons until a new 25,000 capacity stadium is built in the west of the city.

Hearts will NOT enter into administration and will meet its HMRC debt in full. Hearts were respected citizens for 132 years before Romanov arrived.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Look to the North, the Norwegians are coming over the hill.

They will take over the club, minus the debt which will be gone along with UBIG, they will purchase Tynie from UKIO and the Liths will out.

Simples, Hearts will start the season in the SPL, debt free and without any point deduction

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Steve20]

I'm not sure about the new stadium as that won't happen. But Hearts will have new owners soon, be in the SPL with no points deduction.

Liquidation or administration is just people on here wishful thinking.

[CropleyWasGod]

I'm not sure about the new stadium as that won't happen. But Hearts will have new owners soon, be in the SPL with no points deduction.

Liquidation or administration is just people on here wishful thinking.

Okay, I'll bite....:greengrin

How so?

[Gus Fring]

Just been looking through some of the comments from Hearts fans on the Scotsman

That is fantastic, absolutely fantastic!

They've made up a complete fantasy scenario and because some of it doesn't make sense they've made up fictional rules to plug the holes in their story. I honestly LOL'ed reading that.

Barry Anderson will have it written up and on the front page of tomorrows paper no doubt.

Oh ma sides, ye'll need to excuse me, I'm away to change ma kecks.

[Leithenhibby]

Sounds too good to be true.............. :rolleyes:

Which means it probably is. :agree:

[7062]

Are the ideas that they would be bought for £5-7m nonsense due to the shares currently being frozen?

Would Lith admins get much more than that if they broke the club up and sold it all off?

[Part/Time Supporter]

I do like how the second fantasy contradicts itself.

UBIG's assets are frozen. Hearts will be sold within this 30 day period (now 25 days) from the filing with the Lithuanian Govt. Only problem being that one of UBIG's (frozen) assets is Hearts.

The situation will rumble on for the next few weeks, but there is no miracle escape option. They're way past the point where that could have happened (if Romanov had just decided to give them away pre-insolvency).

[Gus Fring]

I'm not sure about the new stadium as that won't happen. But Hearts will have new owners soon, be in the SPL with no points deduction.

Liquidation or administration is just people on here wishful thinking.

:troll: