Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

[HFC 0-7]

The official list thing looks like an insolvency event to me. :aok:

Certainly would seem so, just hope that the rules for a points deduction dont relate only to administration or liquidation. I wonder if the people at UBIG had to do this now to save themselves from getting into trouble running a company whilst insolvent.

As UBIG are the owners of hearts and the rumours about non payment of salaries today, are the 2 things linked? It may be that putting themselves on this list has knock on effects like freezing bank accounts etc which could mean they cannot pay salaries even if the money is there?

[Waxy]

I suppose that's the key question- is self-proclaimed insolvency as reported and accepted by the relevant government authority an 'insolvency event'?Surely can't be anything else by any stretch of the imagination.

[Andy74]

Surely can't be anything else by any stretch of the imagination.

Unable or unwilling to meet its obligations. Sounds like an insolvency event to me.

[Waxy]

Unable or unwilling to meet its obligations. Sounds like an insolvency event to me.Thats exactly what i'm saying.

[Brightside]

Clerry Jambo, on 16 May 2013 - 02:40 PM, said:

I think you maybe right mate, I don't have a nice gut feeling at the moment


Theres nothing there that we didnt already know really.

Edited by audrey65, Today, 14:44.



#allisSTILLbarry

[littleplum]

Surely can't be anything else by any stretch of the imagination.

Perhaps. I was just wondering if there is a particular definition to 'insolvency event' either in law or in the SPL rules that this development doesn't quite meet.

[bingo70]

Unable or unwilling to meet its obligations. Sounds like an insolvency event to me.

That enough for hearts to be relegated though or would they need to go through the admin process for the points deduction to kick in?

[Andy74]

Thats exactly what i'm saying.

I'm agreeing! Hope the SPL do to. It's coming together nicely.

[Waxy]

Perhaps. I was just wondering if there is a particular definition to 'insolvency event' either in law or in the SPL rules that this development doesn't quite meet.I doubt it.Especially after last summer.The SPL will be on top of this now.It has to be admin now.

[lord bunberry]

That enough for hearts to be relegated though or would they need to go through the admin process for the points deduction to kick in?

I don't think so if UBIG suffer an insolvency event then hearts get deducted 18 points

[JeMeSouviens]

I'm agreeing! Hope the SPL do to. It's coming together nicely.

I dunno, I was warming to the prospect of seeing them suffer at the bottom of the SPL all next season, *then* get liquidated. Typical of they ***** to hide in the lower leagues when they're pish! :rolleyes:

[Col2]

I think we are near the insolvency event but this news on Bloomberg alone isn't an official statement from the administrators. So I wouldn't assume its a points deduction yet.

Meanwhile Yams are in discussions with Webster on extending his existing £6k a week contract #allisbarry

[Jamesie]

That's what it looks like to me, UBIG is insolvent so hearts must be deducted 18 points. Even better than that we relegated them

Possibly not as exciting as it may first seem - need to try and understand what underpins the Department's decision but the press release alone will not constitute an "Insolvency Event" for the purposes of the SPL Rules. The definition of "Insolvency Event" requires active steps to have some kind of declaration of insolvency made (generally through a court process) and unless the Department make that happen as opposed to just issuing releases about it then I don't think it takes them into points-deduction territory.

[WindyMiller]

I dunno, I was warming to the prospect of seeing them suffer at the bottom of the SPL all next season, *then* get liquidated. Typical of they ***** to hide in the lower leagues when they're pish! :rolleyes:


That would be a good outcome for a bankrupt club with no stadium and no players.

[Gus Fring]

This is it Ladies and Gentleman, this is what we've all been waiting for. It's happening right now and my advice is to savour every last minute of it.

[Andy74]

Possibly not as exciting as it may first seem - need to try and understand what underpins the Department's decision but the press release alone will not constitute an "Insolvency Event" for the purposes of the SPL Rules. The definition of "Insolvency Event" requires active steps to have some kind of declaration of insolvency made (generally through a court process) and unless the Department make that happen as opposed to just issuing releases about it then I don't think it takes them into points-deduction territory.

Although they have been placed on an official list of companies unable to meet obligations. I'm not sure we have an equivalent but given that the SPL don't mention administration or liquidation it would be hard to argue that this was not an insolvency event.

[SurferRosa]

Clerry Jambo, on 16 May 2013 - 02:40 PM, said:

I think you maybe right mate, I don't have a nice gut feeling at the moment


Theres nothing there that we didnt already know really.

Edited by audrey65, Today, 14:44.



#allisSTILLbarry

What audrey65 fails to grasp is that UBIG themselves have declared themselves to be unable to meet their business obligations. They are admitting they`re insolvent. They`ve just announced it so we didn`t know that before.

Never mind audrey65, you`ll always have 1-5, eh.

[Kaiser1962]

I don't think so if UBIG suffer an insolvency event then hearts get deducted 18 points

Is the deduction not at the discretion of the SPL/SFA/Someone else?

I think Dundee could argue, particularly if UBIG enter admin in the next few weeks/months, that today is the date that any penalty should be applied.


Has anybody told Barry?

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

They can't be expecting many to turn up if it's at Brauhaus, my toilet's bigger than that place.

There'll be mair s***e and pish being spouted in Brauhaus though!

[FastEddieFelson]

This is it Ladies and Gentleman, this is what we've all been waiting for. It's happening right now and my advice is to savour every last minute of it.

really? have you seen the length of this thread?

[Jamesie]

Although they have been placed on an official list of companies unable to meet obligations. I'm not sure we have an equivalent but given that the SPL don't mention administration or liquidation it would be hard to argue that this was not an insolvency event.

The SPL rules are here: http://www.scotprem.com/content/mediaassets/doc/RULES%20EFFECTIVE%203%20DECEMBER%202012.pdf

Rule A6.12 extends the application of the provisions on "Insolvency Event" to any "owner or operator" of a Club. The defition of "Insolvency Event" is copied below. Sadly the press release on its own does not satisfy any of these categories:

Insolvency Event means in respect of a Club:-
(a) it entering into a Company Voluntary Arrangement pursuant to Part 1 of the Insolvency Act, a Scheme of Arrangement with creditors under Part 26 of the 2006 Act, or any compromise agreement with its creditors as a whole;
(b) the lodging of a Notice of Intention to Appoint an Administrator or Notice of Appointment of an Administrator at the Court in accordance with paragraph 29 of Schedule B1 to the Insolvency Act, an application to the Court for an Administration Order under paragraph 12 of Schedule B1 to the Insolvency Act or where an Administrator is appointed or an Administration Order is made (“Administrator” and “Administration Order” having the meaning attributed to them respectively by paragraphs 1 and 10 of Schedule B1 to the Insolvency Act) or an interim manager is appointed by any court as a step in any proceedings which include an application for the making of an Administration Order;
(c) an Administrative Receiver (as defined by the Insolvency Act) or any other Receiver is appointed over any assets which, in the opinion of the Board is material to the Club’s ability to fulfil its obligations as a Club or a Judicial Factor is appointed;
(d) shareholders passing a resolution pursuant to section 84(1) of the Insolvency Act to voluntarily wind up;
(e) a meeting of creditors is convened pursuant to section 95 or section 98 of the Insolvency Act;
(f) a winding up order is made by the Court under section 122 of the Insolvency Act or a provisional liquidator is appointed under section 135 of the Insolvency Act;
(g) ceasing or forming an intention to cease wholly or substantially to carry on business save for the purpose of reconstruction or amalgamation or otherwise in accordance with a scheme or proposals which have previously been submitted to and approved in writing by the Board;
(h) being subject to an insolvency regime in any jurisdiction outside Scotland which is analogous to the insolvency regimes detailed in paragraphs (a) to (g) above; and/or
(i) have any proceedings or step taken or any court order in any jurisdiction made which has a substantially similar effect to any of the foregoing.

[EdinMike]

This is it Ladies and Gentleman, this is what we've all been waiting for. It's happening right now and my advice is to savour every last minute of it.

I've been too excited before and jumped the gun, I am not falling into a false sense of optimism now. When it happens. I'll be happy.

[Waxy]

The SPL rules are here: http://www.scotprem.com/content/mediaassets/doc/RULES%20EFFECTIVE%203%20DECEMBER%202012.pdf

Rule A6.12 extends the application of the provisions on "Insolvency Event" to any "owner or operator" of a Club. The defition of "Insolvency Event" is copied below. Sadly the press release on its own does not satisfy any of these categories:

Insolvency Event means in respect of a Club:-
(a) it entering into a Company Voluntary Arrangement pursuant to Part 1 of the Insolvency Act, a Scheme of Arrangement with creditors under Part 26 of the 2006 Act, or any compromise agreement with its creditors as a whole;
(b) the lodging of a Notice of Intention to Appoint an Administrator or Notice of Appointment of an Administrator at the Court in accordance with paragraph 29 of Schedule B1 to the Insolvency Act, an application to the Court for an Administration Order under paragraph 12 of Schedule B1 to the Insolvency Act or where an Administrator is appointed or an Administration Order is made (“Administrator” and “Administration Order” having the meaning attributed to them respectively by paragraphs 1 and 10 of Schedule B1 to the Insolvency Act) or an interim manager is appointed by any court as a step in any proceedings which include an application for the making of an Administration Order;
(c) an Administrative Receiver (as defined by the Insolvency Act) or any other Receiver is appointed over any assets which, in the opinion of the Board is material to the Club’s ability to fulfil its obligations as a Club or a Judicial Factor is appointed;
(d) shareholders passing a resolution pursuant to section 84(1) of the Insolvency Act to voluntarily wind up;
(e) a meeting of creditors is convened pursuant to section 95 or section 98 of the Insolvency Act;
(f) a winding up order is made by the Court under section 122 of the Insolvency Act or a provisional liquidator is appointed under section 135 of the Insolvency Act;
(g) ceasing or forming an intention to cease wholly or substantially to carry on business save for the purpose of reconstruction or amalgamation or otherwise in accordance with a scheme or proposals which have previously been submitted to and approved in writing by the Board;
(h) being subject to an insolvency regime in any jurisdiction outside Scotland which is analogous to the insolvency regimes detailed in paragraphs (a) to (g) above; and/or
(i) have any proceedings or step taken or any court order in any jurisdiction made which has a substantially similar effect to any of the foregoing.They are goosed.

[WindyMiller]

The SPL rules are here: http://www.scotprem.com/content/mediaassets/doc/RULES%20EFFECTIVE%203%20DECEMBER%202012.pdf

Rule A6.12 extends the application of the provisions on "Insolvency Event" to any "owner or operator" of a Club. The defition of "Insolvency Event" is copied below. Sadly the press release on its own does not satisfy any of these categories:

Insolvency Event means in respect of a Club:-
(a) it entering into a Company Voluntary Arrangement pursuant to Part 1 of the Insolvency Act, a Scheme of Arrangement with creditors under Part 26 of the 2006 Act, or any compromise agreement with its creditors as a whole;
(b) the lodging of a Notice of Intention to Appoint an Administrator or Notice of Appointment of an Administrator at the Court in accordance with paragraph 29 of Schedule B1 to the Insolvency Act, an application to the Court for an Administration Order under paragraph 12 of Schedule B1 to the Insolvency Act or where an Administrator is appointed or an Administration Order is made (“Administrator” and “Administration Order” having the meaning attributed to them respectively by paragraphs 1 and 10 of Schedule B1 to the Insolvency Act) or an interim manager is appointed by any court as a step in any proceedings which include an application for the making of an Administration Order;
(c) an Administrative Receiver (as defined by the Insolvency Act) or any other Receiver is appointed over any assets which, in the opinion of the Board is material to the Club’s ability to fulfil its obligations as a Club or a Judicial Factor is appointed;
(d) shareholders passing a resolution pursuant to section 84(1) of the Insolvency Act to voluntarily wind up;
(e) a meeting of creditors is convened pursuant to section 95 or section 98 of the Insolvency Act;
(f) a winding up order is made by the Court under section 122 of the Insolvency Act or a provisional liquidator is appointed under section 135 of the Insolvency Act;
(g) ceasing or forming an intention to cease wholly or substantially to carry on business save for the purpose of reconstruction or amalgamation or otherwise in accordance with a scheme or proposals which have previously been submitted to and approved in writing by the Board;
(h) being subject to an insolvency regime in any jurisdiction outside Scotland which is analogous to the insolvency regimes detailed in paragraphs (a) to (g) above; and/or
(i) have any proceedings or step taken or any court order in any jurisdiction made which has a substantially similar effect to any of the foregoing.



What about (G) ?

[kdhibees1]

STV are on the case it seems!
http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/hearts/225636-hearts-parent-company-ubig-insolvent-according-to-reports-in-lithuania/ :greengrin

[Fred Perry]

Where's Daffy when you need him??

[Humo]

The SPL rules are here: http://www.scotprem.com/content/mediaassets/doc/RULES%20EFFECTIVE%203%20DECEMBER%202012.pdf

Rule A6.12 extends the application of the provisions on "Insolvency Event" to any "owner or operator" of a Club. The defition of "Insolvency Event" is copied below. Sadly the press release on its own does not satisfy any of these categories:

Insolvency Event means in respect of a Club:-
(a) it entering into a Company Voluntary Arrangement pursuant to Part 1 of the Insolvency Act, a Scheme of Arrangement with creditors under Part 26 of the 2006 Act, or any compromise agreement with its creditors as a whole;
(b) the lodging of a Notice of Intention to Appoint an Administrator or Notice of Appointment of an Administrator at the Court in accordance with paragraph 29 of Schedule B1 to the Insolvency Act, an application to the Court for an Administration Order under paragraph 12 of Schedule B1 to the Insolvency Act or where an Administrator is appointed or an Administration Order is made (“Administrator” and “Administration Order” having the meaning attributed to them respectively by paragraphs 1 and 10 of Schedule B1 to the Insolvency Act) or an interim manager is appointed by any court as a step in any proceedings which include an application for the making of an Administration Order;
(c) an Administrative Receiver (as defined by the Insolvency Act) or any other Receiver is appointed over any assets which, in the opinion of the Board is material to the Club’s ability to fulfil its obligations as a Club or a Judicial Factor is appointed;
(d) shareholders passing a resolution pursuant to section 84(1) of the Insolvency Act to voluntarily wind up;
(e) a meeting of creditors is convened pursuant to section 95 or section 98 of the Insolvency Act;
(f) a winding up order is made by the Court under section 122 of the Insolvency Act or a provisional liquidator is appointed under section 135 of the Insolvency Act;
(g) ceasing or forming an intention to cease wholly or substantially to carry on business save for the purpose of reconstruction or amalgamation or otherwise in accordance with a scheme or proposals which have previously been submitted to and approved in writing by the Board;
(h) being subject to an insolvency regime in any jurisdiction outside Scotland which is analogous to the insolvency regimes detailed in paragraphs (a) to (g) above; and/or
(i) have any proceedings or step taken or any court order in any jurisdiction made which has a substantially similar effect to any of the foregoing.


So are they getting a points deduction or not???:confused::confused::confused:

[robinp]

The SPL rules are here: http://www.scotprem.com/content/mediaassets/doc/RULES%20EFFECTIVE%203%20DECEMBER%202012.pdf

Rule A6.12 extends the application of the provisions on "Insolvency Event" to any "owner or operator" of a Club. The defition of "Insolvency Event" is copied below. Sadly the press release on its own does not satisfy any of these categories:

Insolvency Event means in respect of a Club:-
(a) it entering into a Company Voluntary Arrangement pursuant to Part 1 of the Insolvency Act, a Scheme of Arrangement with creditors under Part 26 of the 2006 Act, or any compromise agreement with its creditors as a whole;
(b) the lodging of a Notice of Intention to Appoint an Administrator or Notice of Appointment of an Administrator at the Court in accordance with paragraph 29 of Schedule B1 to the Insolvency Act, an application to the Court for an Administration Order under paragraph 12 of Schedule B1 to the Insolvency Act or where an Administrator is appointed or an Administration Order is made (“Administrator” and “Administration Order” having the meaning attributed to them respectively by paragraphs 1 and 10 of Schedule B1 to the Insolvency Act) or an interim manager is appointed by any court as a step in any proceedings which include an application for the making of an Administration Order;
(c) an Administrative Receiver (as defined by the Insolvency Act) or any other Receiver is appointed over any assets which, in the opinion of the Board is material to the Club’s ability to fulfil its obligations as a Club or a Judicial Factor is appointed;
(d) shareholders passing a resolution pursuant to section 84(1) of the Insolvency Act to voluntarily wind up;
(e) a meeting of creditors is convened pursuant to section 95 or section 98 of the Insolvency Act;
(f) a winding up order is made by the Court under section 122 of the Insolvency Act or a provisional liquidator is appointed under section 135 of the Insolvency Act;
(g) ceasing or forming an intention to cease wholly or substantially to carry on business save for the purpose of reconstruction or amalgamation or otherwise in accordance with a scheme or proposals which have previously been submitted to and approved in writing by the Board;
(h) being subject to an insolvency regime in any jurisdiction outside Scotland which is analogous to the insolvency regimes detailed in paragraphs (a) to (g) above; and/or
(i) have any proceedings or step taken or any court order in any jurisdiction made which has a substantially similar effect to any of the foregoing.

The Lithuania government have listed them on this register at the companies own request, they have said they are unable or unwilling to pay their debts. This could fall under point (I).

[hibby rae]

There'll be mair ***** and pish being spouted in Brauhaus though!

True, Locke will think it's Christmas.

[CentreLine]

This is it Ladies and Gentleman, this is what we've all been waiting for. It's happening right now and my advice is to savour every last minute of it.

What do we think this means for the auditors who only recently signed off the accounts declaring that hahahahearts were good for at least the next twelve months?

[Peevemor]

What do we think this means for the auditors who only recently signed off the accounts declaring that hahahahearts were good for at least the next twelve months?

The "next 12 months" in question are almost up.

[JeMeSouviens]

Definition from the SPL rules:



Insolvency Event means in respect of a Club:
-
(a)
it entering into a Company Voluntary Arrangement
pursuant to Part 1
of the Insolvency Act, a Scheme of
Arrangement with creditors under Part 26 of the 2006
Act, or any compromise agreement with its creditors as a
whole;
(b)
the lodging of a Notice of Intention to Appoint an
Administrator or Notice of Appointment of an
Administrator at the Court in accordance with paragraph
29 of Schedule B1 to the Insolvency Act, an application
to the Court for an Administration Order under paragraph
12 of Schedule B1 to the Insolvency Act or where an
Administrator is appointed or an Administration Order is
made (“Administrator” and “Administration Order” having
the meaning attributed to them respectively by
paragraphs 1 and 10 of Schedule B1 to the Insolvency
Act) or an interim manager is appointed by any court as
a step in any proceedings
which include an application
for the making of an Administration Order;
(c)
an Administrative Receiver (as defined by the Insolvency
Act) or any other Receiver is appointed over any assets
which, in the opinion of the Board is material to the
Club’s ability to fulfil its obligations as a Club or a
Judicial Factor is appointed;
(d)
shareholders passing a resolution pursuant to section
84(1) of the Insolvency Act to voluntarily wind up;
(e)
a meeting of creditors is convened pursuant to section
95 or section 98 of the Insolvency Act;
(f)
a winding up order is made by the Court under section
122 of the Insolvency Act or a provisional liquidator is
appointed under section 135 of the Insolvency Act;
85
(g)
ceasing or forming an intention to cease wholly or
substantially to carry on business save for the purpose
of reconstruction or amalgamation or otherwise in
accordance with a scheme or proposals which have
previously been submitted to and approved in writing by
the Board;
(h)
being subject to an insolvency
regime in any jurisdiction
outside Scotland which is analogous to the insolvency
regimes detailed in paragraphs (a) to (g) above; and/or
(i)
have any proceedings or step taken or any court order in
any jurisdiction made which has a substantially similar
effect to any of the foregoing.
Insolvency Process means a process or procedure comprising
two or more Insolvency Events which occur either concurrently
or consecutively

[Andy74]

What about (G) ?

Or H?

[HibeeMG]

The SPL rules are here: http://www.scotprem.com/content/mediaassets/doc/RULES%20EFFECTIVE%203%20DECEMBER%202012.pdf

Rule A6.12 extends the application of the provisions on "Insolvency Event" to any "owner or operator" of a Club. The defition of "Insolvency Event" is copied below. Sadly the press release on its own does not satisfy any of these categories:

Insolvency Event means in respect of a Club:-
(a) it entering into a Company Voluntary Arrangement pursuant to Part 1 of the Insolvency Act, a Scheme of Arrangement with creditors under Part 26 of the 2006 Act, or any compromise agreement with its creditors as a whole;
(b) the lodging of a Notice of Intention to Appoint an Administrator or Notice of Appointment of an Administrator at the Court in accordance with paragraph 29 of Schedule B1 to the Insolvency Act, an application to the Court for an Administration Order under paragraph 12 of Schedule B1 to the Insolvency Act or where an Administrator is appointed or an Administration Order is made (“Administrator” and “Administration Order” having the meaning attributed to them respectively by paragraphs 1 and 10 of Schedule B1 to the Insolvency Act) or an interim manager is appointed by any court as a step in any proceedings which include an application for the making of an Administration Order;
(c) an Administrative Receiver (as defined by the Insolvency Act) or any other Receiver is appointed over any assets which, in the opinion of the Board is material to the Club’s ability to fulfil its obligations as a Club or a Judicial Factor is appointed;
(d) shareholders passing a resolution pursuant to section 84(1) of the Insolvency Act to voluntarily wind up;
(e) a meeting of creditors is convened pursuant to section 95 or section 98 of the Insolvency Act;
(f) a winding up order is made by the Court under section 122 of the Insolvency Act or a provisional liquidator is appointed under section 135 of the Insolvency Act;
(g) ceasing or forming an intention to cease wholly or substantially to carry on business save for the purpose of reconstruction or amalgamation or otherwise in accordance with a scheme or proposals which have previously been submitted to and approved in writing by the Board;
(h) being subject to an insolvency regime in any jurisdiction outside Scotland which is analogous to the insolvency regimes detailed in paragraphs (a) to (g) above; and/or
(i) have any proceedings or step taken or any court order in any jurisdiction made which has a substantially similar effect to any of the foregoing.

The thing is the press release says they have placed themselves on the insolvency list.

If this is true, I'm sure it can be quickly investigated.

That would surely fall under subsection (h) above.

[Jamesie]

What about (G) ?

The press release to me suggests UBIG has stated it is "unable or unwilling to meet their obligations". It hasn't (yet) gone as far as (g) yet IMHO. Not the first business that has admitted it can't meet its obligations but then has sought further time to sort its affairs out. Time will tell!

[Heisenberg]

Has Barry got anything to say on the current situation? :ostrich:

[EdinMike]

STV are on the case it seems!
http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/hearts/225636-hearts-parent-company-ubig-insolvent-according-to-reports-in-lithuania/ :greengrin

Yet the BBC run a story about Webster wanting another year of money from them...

#allisbbc #allisbarry

[blackpoolhibs]

I cant see the problem here, surely if UBIG are themselves saying they cant meet their obligations, then thats an admission of insolvency? :confused:

[Jamesie]

The thing is the press release says they have placed themselves on the insolvency list.

If this is true, I'm sure it can be quickly investigated.

That would surely fall under subsection (h) above.

"Being subject to an insolvency regime" to me means that insolvency proceedings need to have been instigated against UBIG. Again, much will turn on what underpins that release. I'm not trying to be the party pooper here believe me, I just want to stop people jumping the gun and finding themselves disappointed!

[givescotlandfreedom]

Where's Daffy when you need him??

Times like these are the reason daffy was created.

[s.a.m]

The SPL rules are here: http://www.scotprem.com/content/mediaassets/doc/RULES%20EFFECTIVE%203%20DECEMBER%202012.pdf

Rule A6.12 extends the application of the provisions on "Insolvency Event" to any "owner or operator" of a Club. The defition of "Insolvency Event" is copied below. Sadly the press release on its own does not satisfy any of these categories:

Insolvency Event means in respect of a Club:-
(a) it entering into a Company Voluntary Arrangement pursuant to Part 1 of the Insolvency Act, a Scheme of Arrangement with creditors under Part 26 of the 2006 Act, or any compromise agreement with its creditors as a whole;
(b) the lodging of a Notice of Intention to Appoint an Administrator or Notice of Appointment of an Administrator at the Court in accordance with paragraph 29 of Schedule B1 to the Insolvency Act, an application to the Court for an Administration Order under paragraph 12 of Schedule B1 to the Insolvency Act or where an Administrator is appointed or an Administration Order is made (“Administrator” and “Administration Order” having the meaning attributed to them respectively by paragraphs 1 and 10 of Schedule B1 to the Insolvency Act) or an interim manager is appointed by any court as a step in any proceedings which include an application for the making of an Administration Order;
(c) an Administrative Receiver (as defined by the Insolvency Act) or any other Receiver is appointed over any assets which, in the opinion of the Board is material to the Club’s ability to fulfil its obligations as a Club or a Judicial Factor is appointed;
(d) shareholders passing a resolution pursuant to section 84(1) of the Insolvency Act to voluntarily wind up;
(e) a meeting of creditors is convened pursuant to section 95 or section 98 of the Insolvency Act;
(f) a winding up order is made by the Court under section 122 of the Insolvency Act or a provisional liquidator is appointed under section 135 of the Insolvency Act;
(g) ceasing or forming an intention to cease wholly or substantially to carry on business save for the purpose of reconstruction or amalgamation or otherwise in accordance with a scheme or proposals which have previously been submitted to and approved in writing by the Board;
(h) being subject to an insolvency regime in any jurisdiction outside Scotland which is analogous to the insolvency regimes detailed in paragraphs (a) to (g) above; and/or
(i) have any proceedings or step taken or any court order in any jurisdiction made which has a substantially similar effect to any of the foregoing.

The Press Release would have no bearing on a decision, but is the fact that UBIG have told the authorities (if I'm following this right...) they can't or won't meet their obligations not, possibly, covered by d) or g)?
It's not clear from the PR what exact stage of the game they are at, but a decision seems to have been taken - presumably following a resolution passed by share holders. No?

[Jamesie]

The Lithuania government have listed them on this register at the companies own request, they have said they are unable or unwilling to pay their debts. This could fall under point (I).

Could be.

[Peevemor]

The press release to me suggests UBIG has stated it is "unable or unwilling to meet their obligations". It hasn't (yet) gone as far as (g) yet IMHO. Not the first business that has admitted it can't meet its obligations but then has sought further time to sort its affairs out. Time will tell!

It's worth remembering that the insolvency process varies from country to country. For me everything depends on what UBIG voluntarily placing themself on this list means in legal terms in Lithuania.

[Jamesie]

The Press Release would have no bearing on a decision, but is the fact that UBIG have told the authorities (if I'm following this right...) they can't or won't meet their obligations not, possibly, covered by d) or g)?
It's not clear from the PR what exact stage of the game they are at, but a decision seems to have been taken - presumably following a resolution passed by share holders. No?

My money is on ultimately (g) or (i) but we need more info ASAP!

[lord bunberry]

I cant see the problem here, surely if UBIG are themselves saying they cant meet their obligations, then thats an admission of insolvency? :confused:

Exactly they are either insolvent or there not, and the fact that they are declaring the fact themselves means they are

[Fred Perry]

Times like these are the reason daffy was created.#allisdaffy :greengrin

[dangermouse]

(f) a winding up order is made by the Court under section 122 of the Insolvency Act or a provisional liquidator is appointed under section 135 of the Insolvency Act;

Thought HMRC had a winding up order against them just before Christmas. Should the points not have been deducted then? :confused:

[Kaiser1962]

Patrick McPartlin‏@p_mcpartlin4m (http://www.hibs.net/p_mcpartlin/status/335050681729839105)#Hearts (http://www.hibs.net/search?q=%23Hearts&src=hash) majority shareholder UBIG declared insolvent at own request, say Lithuanian Department of Enterprise Bankruptcy Management.



If true then :greengrin

[Waxy]

My god.UBIG have DECLARED THEMSELVES INSOLVENT.
Bye bye Yams.

[HibeeMG]

"Being subject to an insolvency regime" to me means that insolvency proceedings need to have been instigated against UBIG. Again, much will turn on what underpins that release. I'm not trying to be the party pooper here believe me, I just want to stop people jumping the gun and finding themselves disappointed!

We don't know what legal avenues a Lithuanian company has to go down when entering administration or liquidation.

This insolvency list might be a legal requirement.

If that is the case, surely it would have been decided by shareholders of UBIG. That in itself would contravene one of the SPL rules (I'm on my phone so can't see which).

[Caversham Green]

The SPL rules are here: http://www.scotprem.com/content/mediaassets/doc/RULES%20EFFECTIVE%203%20DECEMBER%202012.pdf

Rule A6.12 extends the application of the provisions on "Insolvency Event" to any "owner or operator" of a Club. The defition of "Insolvency Event" is copied below. Sadly the press release on its own does not satisfy any of these categories:

Insolvency Event means in respect of a Club:-
(a) it entering into a Company Voluntary Arrangement pursuant to Part 1 of the Insolvency Act, a Scheme of Arrangement with creditors under Part 26 of the 2006 Act, or any compromise agreement with its creditors as a whole;
(b) the lodging of a Notice of Intention to Appoint an Administrator or Notice of Appointment of an Administrator at the Court in accordance with paragraph 29 of Schedule B1 to the Insolvency Act, an application to the Court for an Administration Order under paragraph 12 of Schedule B1 to the Insolvency Act or where an Administrator is appointed or an Administration Order is made (“Administrator” and “Administration Order” having the meaning attributed to them respectively by paragraphs 1 and 10 of Schedule B1 to the Insolvency Act) or an interim manager is appointed by any court as a step in any proceedings which include an application for the making of an Administration Order;
(c) an Administrative Receiver (as defined by the Insolvency Act) or any other Receiver is appointed over any assets which, in the opinion of the Board is material to the Club’s ability to fulfil its obligations as a Club or a Judicial Factor is appointed;
(d) shareholders passing a resolution pursuant to section 84(1) of the Insolvency Act to voluntarily wind up;
(e) a meeting of creditors is convened pursuant to section 95 or section 98 of the Insolvency Act;
(f) a winding up order is made by the Court under section 122 of the Insolvency Act or a provisional liquidator is appointed under section 135 of the Insolvency Act;
(g) ceasing or forming an intention to cease wholly or substantially to carry on business save for the purpose of reconstruction or amalgamation or otherwise in accordance with a scheme or proposals which have previously been submitted to and approved in writing by the Board;
(h) being subject to an insolvency regime in any jurisdiction outside Scotland which is analogous to the insolvency regimes detailed in paragraphs (a) to (g) above; and/or
(i) have any proceedings or step taken or any court order in any jurisdiction made which has a substantially similar effect to any of the foregoing.

I reckon the entry on the list of insovent companies falls under (g), (h) and (i). The one dubious factor is that the SPL board have discretion where it's a group company rather than the owner and operator, which in Rangers/Sevco's case thay claimed to mean the club company rather than the parent company. Wrongly IMHO.


What do we think this means for the auditors who only recently signed off the accounts declaring that hahahahearts were good for at least the next twelve months?

I think they'll be alright - it's not HoMFC that's insolvent and it wasn't in the auditors' remit to investigate UBIG's solvency in any depth. I do feel they should have been more careful with their report in that respect though.

[SteveHFC]

Patrick McPartlin‏@p_mcpartlin4m (http://www.hibs.net/p_mcpartlin/status/335050681729839105)#Hearts (http://www.hibs.net/search?q=%23Hearts&src=hash) majority shareholder UBIG declared insolvent at own request, say Lithuanian Department of Enterprise Bankruptcy Management.



If true then :greengrin

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lt91w4yeeH1qztwte.gif

[Moulin Yarns]

Dear Admins, can we change everybodies avatar from Hector to the executioner please?

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRl56pZV4Z7Qt2I9J7LY8efiPTJ0fne1 D3VxuL58wgcJ7B-n39H9YKOybJt:1.bp.blogspot.com/-W3jN0hQMJdI/UUYdSk5Uv7I/AAAAAAAAI3U/4nT3kHj435U/s1600/death.jpg (http://www.hibs.net/imgres?imgurl=http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-W3jN0hQMJdI/UUYdSk5Uv7I/AAAAAAAAI3U/4nT3kHj435U/s1600/death.jpg&imgrefurl=http://mikemesserli.blogspot.com/2013/03/the-death-of-death_17.html&usg=__w17UOEj7QLZLqKk84zB1YYp12E8=&h=1296&w=939&sz=542&hl=en&start=2&zoom=1&tbnid=dnTD9UlajeRwPM:&tbnh=150&tbnw=109&ei=MvmUUee7M6WQ7Abtu4DwBw&prev=/search%3Fq%3Ddeath%26safe%3Dvss%26hl%3Den-GB%26gbv%3D2%26sout%3D1%26tbm%3Disch&itbs=1&sa=X&ved=0CC4QrQMwAQ) http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSAGPwShjVO-vBuh_RugDViELwRscp3Od7D2XAyxnq_S2rNYBS1yyL18MVZ:ww w.lighthouseconsultinginc.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/image.php_.jpeg (http://www.hibs.net/imgres?imgurl=http://www.lighthouseconsultinginc.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/image.php_.jpeg&imgrefurl=http://www.lighthouseconsultinginc.com/2011/05/does-your-business-need-and-executioner/&usg=__57Mc8KpPvCGSqtp-NsMnap6hgFA=&h=1600&w=1600&sz=141&hl=en&start=3&zoom=1&tbnid=czjPcKfclI6OGM:&tbnh=150&tbnw=150&ei=SfmUUf3VKs6X7Qb3toDYAQ&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dexecutioner%26safe%3Dvss%26hl%3Den-GB%26gbv%3D2%26sout%3D1%26tbm%3Disch&itbs=1&sa=X&ved=0CDAQrQMwAg) http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQrO8vvyh0n8BH1fEYAjNx6fZ0QLVRdF Ri1G1L6XJea506EnuL7t9hTGqzU:st.depositphotos.com/1815767/1413/v/950/depositphotos_14136050-Hangman039s-noose-sketch.jpg (http://www.hibs.net/imgres?imgurl=http://st.depositphotos.com/1815767/1413/v/950/depositphotos_14136050-Hangman039s-noose-sketch.jpg&imgrefurl=http://depositphotos.com/14136050/stock-illustration-Hangman039s-noose-sketch.html&usg=__6jZtYWBgWAXtKha_L-55Xut0-g0=&h=1024&w=1024&sz=110&hl=en&start=7&zoom=1&tbnid=8__wELPFwgFzKM:&tbnh=150&tbnw=150&ei=YvmUUZixB62O7AbikoGoAQ&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhangman%26safe%3Dvss%26hl%3Den-GB%26gbv%3D2%26sout%3D1%26tbm%3Disch&itbs=1&sa=X&ved=0CDgQrQMwBg)

[green glory]

True, Locke will think it's Christmas.

He'll be there in his maroon speedos no doubt.

[kdhibees1]

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lt91w4yeeH1qztwte.gif
:LOL::big grin::Awright!:

[JeMeSouviens]

This is hot news over on sickbag, someone even claims they might not get there share certificates after all! :faf:

[Saorsa]

This is hot news over on sickbag, someone even claims they might not get there share certificates after all! :faf:​Really! :faf:

[Andy74]

I reckon the entry on the list of insovent companies falls under (g), (h) and (i). The one dubious factor is that the SPL board have discretion where it's a group company rather than the owner and operator, which in Rangers/Sevco's case thay claimed to mean the club company rather than the parent company. Wrongly IMHO.



I think they'll be alright - it's not HoMFC that's insolvent and it wasn't in the auditors' remit to investigate UBIG's solvency in any depth. I do feel they should have been more careful with their report in that respect though.

Given the constant references in accounts and other things to the total reliance on UBIG it would be difficult to suggest they are not responsible for the running of the club.

[s.a.m]

SteveHFC - that's a thing of beauty:thumbsup:

[MassHibsteria]

Patrick McPartlin‏@p_mcpartlin4m (http://www.hibs.net/p_mcpartlin/status/335050681729839105)#Hearts (http://www.hibs.net/search?q=%23Hearts&src=hash) majority shareholder UBIG declared insolvent at own request, say Lithuanian Department of Enterprise Bankruptcy Management.



If true then :greengrin

Reported by a good Hibbie, and contributor to Mass Hibsteria. The boy knows a good story when he sees one.

[Www1875hfc]

I'm prepared to wait 3 more days :cb

[Mikey]

The SPL rules are here: http://www.scotprem.com/content/mediaassets/doc/RULES%20EFFECTIVE%203%20DECEMBER%202012.pdf

Rule A6.12 extends the application of the provisions on "Insolvency Event" to any "owner or operator" of a Club. The defition of "Insolvency Event" is copied below. Sadly the press release on its own does not satisfy any of these categories:

Insolvency Event means in respect of a Club:-
(a) it entering into a Company Voluntary Arrangement pursuant to Part 1 of the Insolvency Act, a Scheme of Arrangement with creditors under Part 26 of the 2006 Act, or any compromise agreement with its creditors as a whole;
(b) the lodging of a Notice of Intention to Appoint an Administrator or Notice of Appointment of an Administrator at the Court in accordance with paragraph 29 of Schedule B1 to the Insolvency Act, an application to the Court for an Administration Order under paragraph 12 of Schedule B1 to the Insolvency Act or where an Administrator is appointed or an Administration Order is made (“Administrator” and “Administration Order” having the meaning attributed to them respectively by paragraphs 1 and 10 of Schedule B1 to the Insolvency Act) or an interim manager is appointed by any court as a step in any proceedings which include an application for the making of an Administration Order;
(c) an Administrative Receiver (as defined by the Insolvency Act) or any other Receiver is appointed over any assets which, in the opinion of the Board is material to the Club’s ability to fulfil its obligations as a Club or a Judicial Factor is appointed;
(d) shareholders passing a resolution pursuant to section 84(1) of the Insolvency Act to voluntarily wind up;
(e) a meeting of creditors is convened pursuant to section 95 or section 98 of the Insolvency Act;
(f) a winding up order is made by the Court under section 122 of the Insolvency Act or a provisional liquidator is appointed under section 135 of the Insolvency Act;
(g) ceasing or forming an intention to cease wholly or substantially to carry on business save for the purpose of reconstruction or amalgamation or otherwise in accordance with a scheme or proposals which have previously been submitted to and approved in writing by the Board;
(h) being subject to an insolvency regime in any jurisdiction outside Scotland which is analogous to the insolvency regimes detailed in paragraphs (a) to (g) above; and/or
(i) have any proceedings or step taken or any court order in any jurisdiction made which has a substantially similar effect to any of the foregoing.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The SPL needs to get Hearts the **** out of the league before the summer to save a mountain of hassle. We all know they're going to go tits up over the summer so hit them with the 18 points and make them the SFL's problem.

If they do that then Dundee stay up and Partick join them in the SPL. If they don't then Dundee will go down and we'll have a Morton team filling Hearts' void that's nowhere near ready for the SPL taking a tanking every weekend.

Get them out now.

[Jamesie]

Thought HMRC had a winding up order against them just before Christmas. Should the points not have been deducted then? :confused:

They had a winding up Petition but as I understand it that was dropped before an order was made when they came to a deal on repayment (according to press anyway)

[Saorsa]

Time for the SPL tae lower the boom. :bye:

[Haymaker]

Top work again Steve! This is it, im sure of it!

[Kaiser1962]

Given the constant references in accounts and other things to the total reliance on UBIG it would be difficult to suggest they are not responsible for the running of the club.

I concur :agree:

[EdinMike]

I wonder if HMRC will pounce on the money they still owe to us good law aiding tax payers !?

Then that'll put another nail in this awfully big coffin ! :greengrin:greengrin

[Waxy]

And also.does anyone know if they got paid today?

[Big Frank]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The SPL needs to get Hearts the **** out of the league before the summer to save a mountain of hassle. We all know they're going to go tits up over the summer so hit them with the 18 points and make them the SFL's problem.

If they do that then Dundee stay up and Partick join them in the SPL. If they don't then Dundee will go down and we'll have a Morton team filling Hearts' void that's nowhere near ready for the SPL taking a tanking every weekend.

Get them out now.

This!

[Hibernian Verse]

Hearts disappear and Hibs win the cup...

If Carlsberg did 2013s.

[JeMeSouviens]

I reckon the entry on the list of insovent companies falls under (g), (h) and (i). The one dubious factor is that the SPL board have discretion where it's a group company rather than the owner and operator, which in Rangers/Sevco's case thay claimed to mean the club company rather than the parent company. Wrongly IMHO.



I think they'll be alright - it's not HoMFC that's insolvent and it wasn't in the auditors' remit to investigate UBIG's solvency in any depth. I do feel they should have been more careful with their report in that respect though.

According to the SPL rules:


Group Undertaking means a “group undertaking” as defined in
section 1161(5) of the Companies Act 2006;


According to the Companies Act 2006:


(5)In the Companies Acts “group undertaking”, in relation to an undertaking, means an undertaking which is—
(a)a parent undertaking or subsidiary undertaking of that undertaking, or
(b)a subsidiary undertaking of any parent undertaking of that undertaking.

and ...


(2)An undertaking is a parent undertaking in relation to another undertaking, a subsidiary undertaking, if—
(a)it holds a majority of the voting rights in the undertaking, or
(b)it is a member of the undertaking and has the right to appoint or remove a majority of its board of directors, or
(c)it has the right to exercise a dominant influence over the undertaking—
(i)by virtue of provisions contained in the undertaking's articles, or
(ii)by virtue of a control contract, or
(d)it is a member of the undertaking and controls alone, pursuant to an agreement with other shareholders or members, a majority of the voting rights in the undertaking.

Bit in bold doesn't leave any wriggle room I don't think?

[jonty]

9904
The yams version of foot in mouth

And the good old...

9905

[The Sea-gull]

Not much at all about this on KickBack but then there never is when it comes to this sort of thing. Is it a case of "nothing to see here move along" or are they just too scared to post anything as by not posting it and talking about it somehow means that it might not happen. Probably with their grip on reality they feel they can keep it all under wraps from the media, the SPL and everyone else by not discussing it.

Or do the admin folk there cut off any posts of this nature before they hit the board?

[HFC 0-7]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The SPL needs to get Hearts the **** out of the league before the summer to save a mountain of hassle. We all know they're going to go tits up over the summer so hit them with the 18 points and make them the SFL's problem.

If they do that then Dundee stay up and Partick join them in the SPL. If they don't then Dundee will go down and we'll have a Morton team filling Hearts' void that's nowhere near ready for the SPL taking a tanking every weekend.

Get them out now.

Do you know if Dundee have been relegated at this point? Ie, have they already handed their spl membership over? Would be a farce if hearts wriggle out of relegation should they get a points deduction.

[Billy Whizz]

Not much at all about this on KickBack but then there never is when it comes to this sort of thing. Is it a case of "nothing to see here move along" or are they just too scared to post anything as by not posting it and talking about it somehow means that it might not happen. Probably with their grip on reality they feel they can keep it all under wraps from the media, the SPL and everyone else by not discussing it.

Or do the admin folk there cut off any posts of this nature before they hit the board?
You mean like in North Korea?

[Gus Fring]

Just had a wee peak over the road. They claim the SPL has clarified that the rules we're quoting were only made up to prevent a loophole where the club is owned by a holding company and that because Hearts are owned by a bigger group they rule doesn't apply to them.

Straws. They're clutching at them.

[Caversham Green]

The "next 12 months" in question are almost up.

It's always 12 months from the date of signing the audit report rather than the year end so they're still culpable in that respect.

[Heisenberg]

So Hearts need to be deducted the points before monday? Cant see it happening, would make a lot of people a wee bit wealthier if it did though :greengrin

[Saorsa]

This!:agree: time for them tae be expunged form the list of SPL teams

[Peevemor]

It's always 12 months from the date of signing the audit report rather than the year end so they're still culpable in that respect.

OK - didnae ken that.

[I'm_cabbaged]

Not much at all about this on KickBack but then there never is when it comes to this sort of thing. Is it a case of "nothing to see here move along" or are they just too scared to post anything as by not posting it and talking about it somehow means that it might not happen. Probably with their grip on reality they feel they can keep it all under wraps from the media, the SPL and everyone else by not discussing it.

Or do the admin folk there cut off any posts of this nature before they hit the board?

they seem to think it could be a good thing and they'll be sold at a knock down price......

[Hibby Kay-Yay]

Do you know if Dundee have been relegated at this point? Ie, have they already handed their spl membership over? Would be a farce if hearts wriggle out of relegation should they get a points deduction.

They can't hand over their SPL membership as they still have an SPL game to play...us :greengrin

[Part/Time Supporter]

Thought HMRC had a winding up order against them just before Christmas. Should the points not have been deducted then? :confused:

No. HMRC have petitioned (more than once) for a winding up order. They withdrew the petition(s) when Hearts paid up / satisfied them.

...

I suspect this is going to end up in court. There is no way the SPL is going to get their arse in gear before Saturday. As far as the SPL are concerned Dundee will be relegated on Saturday. It's up to Dundee to kick up a fuss by refusing to hand over their share in the SPL company until the Hearts situation is clarified to their satisfaction.

[SteveHFC]

So Hearts need to be deducted the points before monday? Cant see it happening, would make a lot of people a wee bit wealthier if it did though :greengrin

http://www.greendaycommunity.org/public/style_emoticons/default/dance.gif

[Andy74]

They can't hand over their SPL membership as they still have an SPL game to play...us :greengrin

Could be a helluva party that if things escalate tomorrow!

[Mikey]

They can't hand over their SPL membership as they still have an SPL game to play...us :greengrin

Do you think if we wasted enough time taking free kicks and throw ins we could get the ref to add on 4 days stoppage time? :greengrin

[EdinMike]

I just saw someone on Facebook post how it's 15 years to the day since they won the Scottish Cup...

I said to him "Jeez you're deflecting the real issues today then ?!"

Jambo: "What issues ?!"

Wahahaha :bye::faf::na na:

[HFC 0-7]

They can't hand over their SPL membership as they still have an SPL game to play...us :greengrin

We should postpone it then, give the spl longer to deduct points!

[Caversham Green]

According to the SPL rules:



According to the Companies Act 2006:



and ...



Bit in bold doesn't leave any wriggle room I don't think?

I agree but during the Rangers fiasco it was constantly argued that club and company were two separate entities and that the company was the owner and operator. As far as company law and common sense are concerned the company is the club and in HoMFC's case UBIG were the operator - that's where there might be wriggle room if they feel that way inclined.

My view is that HoMFC have benefitted massively from being owned by UBIG and have contributed to UBIG's downfall so they are more deserving of the penalty than any other club in Scotland, including Rangers.

[Green Man]

We should postpone it then, give the spl longer to deduct points!

Let's get down on Saturday morning and waterlog the pitch :greengrin

[Waxy]

We should postpone it then, give the spl longer to deduct points!Pity it wasn't a night match.Sabotage our own floodlights? not us eh.

[hibs0666]

No. HMRC have petitioned (more than once) for a winding up order. They withdrew the petition(s) when Hearts paid up / satisfied them.

...

I suspect this is going to end up in court. There is no way the SPL is going to get their arse in gear before Saturday. As far as the SPL are concerned Dundee will be relegated on Saturday. It's up to Dundee to kick up a fuss by refusing to hand over their share in the SPL company until the Hearts situation is clarified to their satisfaction.

It might take a wee while to sort out in the courts, but there can be no doubt that both the Ukio Bankas and UBIG insolvency events occurred during this season.

[Up The Bracket]

Would love them to go to admin on the 19th of May :agree:

[green.and.white]

Would love them to go to admin on the 19th of May :agree:

That would be way too good :pray:

[kdhibees1]

http://img267.imageshack.us/edit_preview.php?l=img267/2773/sadbrokenheartlovefaceb.jpg&action=rotate

[givescotlandfreedom]

Would love them to go to admin on the 19th of May :agree:

:hnet::pray::pray:

[down-the-slope]

Having shared my detective work on PM board...thought this one was only fair to share wider....:wink:


I have now cracked the Lith Government Bankruptcy site....:greengrin

I think I may have a small libation now ..... read it and weep (or send to SPL :wink:) they are No1 in something this season






Company announcement of the inability to fulfill its obligations or neketinimą






Enterprise Bankruptcy Management Department under the Ministry of Economy, Director of Order No. V-22 (http://www3.lrs.lt/pls/inter3/dokpaieska.showdoc_l?p_id=419827&p_query=&p_tr2=2) on the publication of the company's default on Enterprise Bankruptcy Management Department under the Ministry of Economy website Approval of the Rules, 2012. March 6. (Official Gazette, 2012, Nr. 31-1482).


Sample Application Form (http://www.bankrotodep.lt/Doc/psf5.doc)





Companies unable to meet their obligations, or not thinking of a list of



Seq.No.
Code
Name
Office address
Manager (owner) manager (owner) contact details
Publication date


1
135201099
Joint-stock company "An investment bank group
Kaunas year. weeks. Kaunas year. K. Donelaicio g.60
Rita Matuziene mob. 8 687 77275, e.p.rita@ubig.lt
2013-05-16


2
133523653
Joint-stock company "Kaunas Supply
Kaunas year. weeks. Kaunas year. Palemono g. 171 of the
Rita Metlovaitė, tel. (8 37) 373550, e.p.administracija@kaunotiekimas.lt
2013-05-15

[Saorsa]

http://eyeofthefish.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/fat-lady-singing-warning.jpg

[robinp]

Just posted this on the PM forum:

This is extracts from the english version of the Lithuanian Governments Bankruptcy and Insolvency website:
I think we are reading the same document and I quote.......splurrrrrt:

5.2. Grounds for Filing with the Court of a Petition for Initiation of Enterprise Bankruptcy Proceedings Persons mentioned at point 5.1 may file with the court a petition for the initiation of bankruptcy proceedings if at least one of the following conditions is present:
1) the enterprise fails to pay salaries and other employment-related payments in due time;
2) the enterprise fails, in due time, to pay for the goods received, work performed or services provided, defaults on the repayment of credits and fails to discharge other property obligations assumed under transactions;
3) the enterprise fails to pay, in due time, taxes and other compulsory contributions prescribed by law and/or the awarded amounts;
4) the enterprise has publicly announced or notified the creditor (creditors) in any other manner of its inability or lack of intent to discharge its obligations (publication of such information on the website (www.bankrotodep.lt) of the Department of Enterprise Bankruptcy Management under the Ministry of Economy is also considered as public announcement);

Then:
The head or owner (owners) of an enterprise must file with a court a petition for the initiation of bankruptcy proceedings if:• the enterprise is and/or will be unable to settle with the creditor(s), and the latter has (have) not filed with a court a petition for the initiation of bankruptcy proceedings;
• the enterprise has publicly announced or otherwise notified a creditor(s) that it cannot or does not intend to discharge its obligations.

[littleplum]

Jane Lewis ‏@JaneLewisSport (https://twitter.com/JaneLewisSport) 2m (https://twitter.com/JaneLewisSport/status/335059423129128961) Hearts Director Sergejus Fedotovas confirms to BBC Scotland that clubs parent company UBIG have asked to be declared insolvent. More soon

[Hibercelona]

Glorious news.

[The Sea-gull]

The Hibs are having a party, the Hibs are having a party, the hibs are having a pppppppaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrtttttttttttttttttt ttttttyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy, because the Hearts are dead!

[Mikey]

Chaps, the gifs are slowing things down quite a bit at the moment :wink:

[SteveHFC]

Chaps, the gifs are slowing things down quite a bit at the moment :wink:

Sorry Mikey. All of us just got carried away :wink:

[Glorious]

Gif post removed (sorry!)

[Andy74]

Just posted this on the PM forum:

This is extracts from the english version of the Lithuanian Governments Bankruptcy and Insolvency website:
I think we are reading the same document and I quote.......splurrrrrt:

5.2. Grounds for Filing with the Court of a Petition for Initiation of Enterprise Bankruptcy Proceedings Persons mentioned at point 5.1 may file with the court a petition for the initiation of bankruptcy proceedings if at least one of the following conditions is present:
1) the enterprise fails to pay salaries and other employment-related payments in due time;
2) the enterprise fails, in due time, to pay for the goods received, work performed or services provided, defaults on the repayment of credits and fails to discharge other property obligations assumed under transactions;
3) the enterprise fails to pay, in due time, taxes and other compulsory contributions prescribed by law and/or the awarded amounts;
4) the enterprise has publicly announced or notified the creditor (creditors) in any other manner of its inability or lack of intent to discharge its obligations (publication of such information on the website (www.bankrotodep.lt) of the Department of Enterprise Bankruptcy Management under the Ministry of Economy is also considered as public announcement);

Then:
The head or owner (owners) of an enterprise must file with a court a petition for the initiation of bankruptcy proceedings if:• the enterprise is and/or will be unable to settle with the creditor(s), and the latter has (have) not filed with a court a petition for the initiation of bankruptcy proceedings;
• the enterprise has publicly announced or otherwise notified a creditor(s) that it cannot or does not intend to discharge its obligations.

So it has the same effect as filing for administration or such like then?

Looks like it may be up to the SPL now whether it attaches this to the football club.

[Humo]

I'm getting goosebumps


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22560806 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22560806)



Fedotovas is a former board member of UBIG as well as being a member of the Tynecastle club's board.The Lithuanian investment company has been placed on a list of companies "unable to meet their obligations".
The list is published on the Lithuanian government's Enterprise Bankruptcy Management Department website.
UBIG and their sister company Ukio Bankas, which has collapsed with debts of £380m, own 79 per cent of Hearts' shares.
The Scottish Premier League has been monitoring the situation with some clubs having raised questions as to whether Hearts were in danger of suffering an insolvency event.
If that should happen before Sunday, there could be a risk Hearts would incur a 17-point penalty and thus be relegated.
As things stand, bottom club Dundee are on their way to the First Division and there is a 13-point gap between the Dens Park side and Hearts

[Hibercelona]

Chaps, the gifs are slowing things down quite a bit at the moment :wink:

That and about 500 members trying to post at once.

:faf:

[Heisenberg]

Aye, but just wait till they sign Boyd and Goodwillie!!!! :faf::faf::fenlon

[EdinMike]

I missed why it has to happen before Monday for the point deduction to occur this season, anyone fancy rehashing this point ? :agree:

[kdhibees1]

Posted on keekcack
Anyone else forked out for a season ticket yet? http://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/default/romanovpalm.png
Absolutely effing amazing!!:faf::faf:

[Andy74]

I'm getting goosebumps


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22560806 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22560806)

Are they not missing the more imediate point that the parent company event itself could trigger the deduction?

[Craig_in_Prague]

Good things come to those who wait.

We have waited, but known this would come, when and not if. Now its time to light that expensive cigar, open a quality malt, pour a nice glass of red wine, or whatever helps you sit back & enjoy this!!

One city one team? Mercer was right, just wrong colour!

GGTTH

[Mon Dieu4]

Aye, but just wait till they sign Boyd and Goodwillie!!!! :faf::faf::fenlon

They will easily win the Sunday leagues with that pair upfront

[Aldo]

Would love them to go to admin on the 19th of May :agree:

So would I cos its ma eldests birthday and it would erase the memory of her last birthday

[I'm_cabbaged]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2EVLX_Sgog&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[kdhibees1]

The Hibs are having a party, the Hearts are full of Dread!!!!!!!

[Gatecrasher]

They're going bust
They're going bust
They're going
Hearts are going bust
:flag: :fenlon

[WestEndHibee]

Pity it wasn't a night match.Sabotage our own floodlights? not us eh.

Surely it's down to us as fans? Maybe an accidental roadblock from Dundee to Edinburgh?

[Westie1875]

We should postpone it then, give the spl longer to deduct points!

It would be a shame if there was a power cut or something at ER on sat which would prevent the game going ahead......

[Kaiser1962]

I agree but during the Rangers fiasco it was constantly argued that club and company were two separate entities and that the company was the owner and operator. As far as company law and common sense are concerned the company is the club and in HoMFC's case UBIG were the operator - that's where there might be wriggle room if they feel that way inclined.

My view is that HoMFC have benefitted massively from being owned by UBIG and have contributed to UBIG's downfall so they are more deserving of the penalty than any other club in Scotland, including Rangers.

But if you are Dundee you produce numerous copies of the accounts and point to the repeated references to continued financial support by UBIG being pre requisite for their continued existence. M'Lud....:greengrin

[Fred Perry]

Surely it's down to us as fans? Maybe an accidental roadblock from Dundee to Edinburgh?I knew we'd find a use for Shefki Kuqi :cb

[TrinityHibs]

Would love them to go to admin on the 19th of May :agree:

Karma.

The Brauhaus wont be going to waste on the 19th. They're gonna be having a wake.

[Hermit Crab]

This had to happen before Sunday or points deduction would not happen according to the BBC.

[joe breezy]

This rule seems to state that Hearts are goosed already simply through this event

https://twitter.com/CelticResearch/status/335061840566579201/photo/1

[JeMeSouviens]

Pish Man looks to Pie Man ...

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/locke-i-may-need-to-ask-ally-mccoists-for-advice-on-how-to-cope-with-cash-crisis-fall-out.1368702825

:faf:

[HFC 0-7]

This had to happen before Sunday or points deduction would not happen according to the BBC.

I think they may be wrong, the points deduction probably won't have to happen before Sunday, it's the even that triggers it that needs to be before Sunday surely?

[CraigHibee]

poor hearts






















:faf:

[Purehibee_MYB]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tF4JTd61xco

[JeMeSouviens]

This rule seems to state that Hearts are goosed already simply through this event

https://twitter.com/CelticResearch/status/335061840566579201/photo/1

:agree:

I posted the definition of "group undertaking" above as per Companies Act 2006.

If UBIG is deemed insolvent, they're down. :cb

[EdinMike]

I saw on Keekaboo that one Jambo mentions being relegated this season would be good as if they wait a season and then go down Rangers will be there.

Mate, you'll be lucky to have a club next season ! And with that. I'm off for a beer on a nice sunny day :greengrin

[G15 Hibs]

This rule seems to state that Hearts are goosed already simply through this event

https://twitter.com/CelticResearch/status/335061840566579201/photo/1


I think I just pished myself.

[Caversham Green]

I think they may be wrong, the points deduction probably won't have to happen before Sunday, it's the even that triggers it that needs to be before Sunday surely?

Agreed. The event has happened and it's now up to the SPL to decide whether it warrants a points deduction. I would argue that UBIG is the owner and operator of HoMFC so the deduction is mandatory, but those who take the Sevco defence would argue that UBIG is a group company so it's at the SPL's discretion. In the latter case, UBIG have been instrumantal in the operation and financing of HoMFC for the past 7 years so it seems logical that the penalty should apply.

[HibeeMG]

I think I just pished myself.

Is your second name Foulkes?

[Fife-Hibee]

So ' is it time to pull the cork or not ? I aint working a minute longer if true !!!

[Purehibee_MYB]

So ' is it time to pull the cork or not ? I aint working a minute longer if true !!!

Save it for when the headline reads 'Hearts Enter Administration' will feel a lot sweeter at that point! :greengrin

[matty_f]

I just want to point out statements(at the risk of being a party pooper) the Yams dropped -almost unnoticed- a line into one of their statements over the last few days which said their parent company is Hearts Plc (or something similar).

If anyone has anything that they have released which categorically states otherwise, I suggest making it public asap.

[Aldo]

Agreed. The event has happened and it's now up to the SPL to decide whether it warrants a points deduction. I would argue that UBIG is the owner and operator of HoMFC so the deduction is mandatory, but those who take the Sevco defence would argue that UBIG is a group company so it's at the SPL's discretion. In the latter case, UBIG have been instrumantal in the operation and financing of HoMFC for the past 7 years so it seems logical that the penalty should apply.

If that's the case Cav then it's a waiting game to see if the SPL has the bottle to deal with it correctly. If not they make a rod for their own back and if anyone else has financial worries the same fate will happen to them as the yams??

Nowt

[Golden Bear]

I wonder if this latest news renders them as being unsuitable candidates for a place in the East of Scotland League therefore their pending application should be thrown out?

:tee hee:

[grunt]

Question for Cav/CWG - if UBIG appoint an administrator or liquidator, what happens to the loan owed by HMFC to UBIG? Does it become repayable immediately?

[Fife-Hibee]

Save it for when the headline reads 'Hearts Enter Administration' will feel a lot sweeter at that point! :greengrin

I cant wait tho' the tensions killing me :-)))

[Waxy]

If it does become the end for the yams,good idea to turn this thread into a book.All takings go to Hibs.

[G15 Hibs]

Is your second name Foulkes?


You can call me Dode.

[hibs0666]

Question for Cav/CWG - if UBIG appoint an administrator or liquidator, what happens to the loan owed by HMFC to UBIG? Does it become repayable immediately?

The UBIG loan is repayable in full in July. There is no way that Hearts can pay or re-negotiate that debt and therefore continues to trade whilst knowing full well that it cannot meet its debts. By rights the club should be declaring itself insolvent right now.

[HibeeMG]

I just want to point out statements(at the risk of being a party pooper) the Yams dropped -almost unnoticed- a line into one of their statements over the last few days which said their parent company is Hearts Plc (or something similar).

If anyone has anything that they have released which categorically states otherwise, I suggest making it public asap.

Surely the fact that UBIG own 79% of Hearts shares makes them, by default, the parent company.

[gogsy23]

Carlsberg dont do thursdays but if they did............bye now

[matty_f]

Surely the fact that UBIG own 79% of Hearts shares makes them, by default, the parent company.

I bloody well hope so!

[Caversham Green]

I just want to point out statements(at the risk of being a party pooper) the Yams dropped -almost unnoticed- a line into one of their statements over the last few days which said their parent company is Hearts Plc (or something similar).

If anyone has anything that they have released which categorically states otherwise, I suggest making it public asap.

Heart of Midlothian plc is the club and the company that recently released accounts. Those accounts stated categorically that UBIG is the parent company. Again, it's down to the interpretation of owner and operator.

[grunt]

I just want to point out statements(at the risk of being a party pooper) the Yams dropped -almost unnoticed- a line into one of their statements over the last few days which said their parent company is Hearts Plc (or something similar).

If anyone has anything that they have released which categorically states otherwise, I suggest making it public asap.UBIG are described as their parent company in their financial statements, published a week ago ...

[Hermit Crab]

I think they may be wrong, the points deduction probably won't have to happen before Sunday, it's the even that triggers it that needs to be before Sunday surely?

Being honest mate I don't know.

[Mikey]

Dundee need to get the finger oot and get this 18 point deduction applied tomorrow.

Meanwhile, over the road, they're arguing with each other over how long they'll be down in Division 1 for :hilarious

[JeMeSouviens]

I just want to point out statements(at the risk of being a party pooper) the Yams dropped -almost unnoticed- a line into one of their statements over the last few days which said their parent company is Hearts Plc (or something similar).

If anyone has anything that they have released which categorically states otherwise, I suggest making it public asap.

There are 2 definitions that matter in the SPL rules:

- "Owner and operator of a club". This is a new phrase dreamed up during the NewHun saga to try and pretend that a separate club entity existed that could live on when the company died. So, on planet reality this actually means the club itself, ie. Heart of Midlothian plc. If they have an insolvency event then the deduction is automatic.

- "Group undertaking". I posted the definition of this above and UBIG definitely falls into this category. In this case the deduction isn't automatic but would be decided by the SPL board with regard to:

(i) the need to protect the integrity and continuity of the League;
(ii) the reputation of the League; and
(iii) the relationship between such owner and operator and the Group Undertaking concerned


Can't see how Dundee's lawyers could possibly lose?

[Sergey]

Dundee need to get the finger oot and get this 18 point deduction applied tomorrow.

:agree: I'll trouser over a grand if this happens.

On a more serious note, will the news of UBIG's demise put the kibosh on the Goodwillie and Boyd deals :confused:

[grunt]

The UBIG loan is repayable in full in July. .Not according to Hearts' accounts released last week. There have been changes made recently to the loan arrangements.

[Mon Dieu4]

I just want to point out statements(at the risk of being a party pooper) the Yams dropped -almost unnoticed- a line into one of their statements over the last few days which said their parent company is Hearts Plc (or something similar).

If anyone has anything that they have released which categorically states otherwise, I suggest making it public asap.

Few links here going from 2008 to pretty much present day straight from their own website

http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/articles/20080708/hearts-unveil-debt-for-equity-plan_2241384_1339523

http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/articles/20121025/hearts-to-launch-share-offer_2241384_2959577

http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/articles/20110512/hearts-back-in-profit_2241384_2358272

http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/staticFiles/59/b9/0,,10289~178521,00.pdf

[Mikey]

And I'm still hearing that players haven't been paid today. As they have to report any non payments to the SPL they should be doing that today or tomorrow too.

[Caversham Green]

Question for Cav/CWG - if UBIG appoint an administrator or liquidator, what happens to the loan owed by HMFC to UBIG? Does it become repayable immediately?

It depends on the terms of the loan - generally, unless there's a clause about it being payable on demand the original terms of the loan will stand, but the administrator might offer a discount for early payment - I believe Duff and Phelps did that to Everton for the Jelavic money.


The UBIG loan is repayable in full in July. There is no way that Hearts can pay or re-negotiate that debt and therefore continues to trade whilst knowing full well that it cannot meet its debts. By rights the club should be declaring itself insolvent right now.

According to the accounts the loan was renegotiated so that it now falls due in March 2015. It is included in amounts falling due within one year though, suggesting that there may be such a clause. I think both UBIG and Ukio are likely to keep the loans running as they are for the time being though - administration/liquidation is likely to take some time to complete.

The administrator might see fit to close down HoMFC completely though as it's a loss-making subsidiary of UBIG.

[Mikey]

The administrator might see fit to close down HoMFC completely though as it's a loss-making subsidiary of UBIG.

Daffy......................

[hibs0666]

Not according to Hearts' accounts released last week. There have been changes made recently to the loan arrangements.

Bugger. :wink:

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Might pop into Brauhaus for a pint when they go pop, hopefully Skacel will be pouring the pints.

[Gus Fring]

Few links here going from 2008 to pretty much present day straight from their own website

http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/articles/20080708/hearts-unveil-debt-for-equity-plan_2241384_1339523

http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/articles/20121025/hearts-to-launch-share-offer_2241384_2959577

http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/articles/20110512/hearts-back-in-profit_2241384_2358272

http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/staticFiles/59/b9/0,,10289~178521,00.pdf

"Heart of Midlothian Football Club (Hearts) has reported a return to profitability thanks to savings in staff costs and further investment from parent company Ukio Banko Investicine Grupe (UBIG) and related parties."

I get theres some wriggle room but it didn't work for Southampton or Coventry, admittedly different leagues and only similar circumstances but the argument is the same.

Also, If the players haven't been paid either then thats got to make the SPL even more suspicious?

[givescotlandfreedom]

Few links here going from 2008 to pretty much present day straight from their own website

http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/articles/20080708/hearts-unveil-debt-for-equity-plan_2241384_1339523

http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/articles/20121025/hearts-to-launch-share-offer_2241384_2959577

http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/articles/20110512/hearts-back-in-profit_2241384_2358272

http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/staticFiles/59/b9/0,,10289~178521,00.pdf

Any smart cookies able to save those pages in case they get taken down?

[Sean1875]

What a complete joke of a club :faf:

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Would it be wise to wander round Gorgie with my Ché Petrie tshirt on?

[hibs0666]

Hearts directors talk about today's events...

Heart of Midlothian FC today made the following statement in relation to parent company UBIG.

"Heart of Midlothian Football Club can today acknowledge it is aware of a report circulating in Lithuania relating to its parent company UAB Ukio Banko Investicine Grupe (UBIG).

"The club is seeking clarification regarding UBIG's current situation and as such, it would be inappropriate to comment further at this stage."

[Mikey]

Heart of Midlothian FC today made the following statement in relation to parent company UBIG.

"Heart of Midlothian Football Club can today acknowledge it is aware of a report circulating in Lithuania relating to its parent company UAB Ukio Banko Investicine Grupe (UBIG).

"The club is seeking clarification regarding UBIG's current situation and as such, it would be inappropriate to comment further at this stage."



http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/articles/20130516/ubig-latest_2241384_3181337

[ac1]

Might pop into Brauhaus for a pint when they go pop, hopefully Skacel will be pouring the pints.


Getting it up that asshole is one of the things I am looking forward to most when they go down the pan :aok:

Wonder if he will be giving it the 'loser' sign when his beloved club are flushed down the toilet?

[Oscar T Grouch]

While this thread is fun, check out brokeback :greengrin it has to be the best thread anywhere ever :thumbsup:

I am going out for a pint tonight and I'm going with a Hibs top on, to yam bait, it's gonna be a fun night oot :agree:

[DaveF]

Hearts directors talk about today's events...

Heart of Midlothian FC today made the following statement in relation to parent company UBIG.

"Heart of Midlothian Football Club can today acknowledge it is aware of a report circulating in Lithuania relating to its parent company UAB Ukio Banko Investicine Grupe (UBIG).

"The club is seeking clarification regarding UBIG's current situation and as such, it would be inappropriate to comment further at this stage."

Seeking clarification? Surely Fedotovas keeps them up to date with everything :rolleyes:

[kdhibees1]

An honest statement for a change!
http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/articles/20130516/ubig-latest_2241384_3181337

All the crap they have been making up in the past now seems clear.......time to majorly panic!! :greengrin

[Part/Time Supporter]

There are 2 definitions that matter in the SPL rules:

- "Owner and operator of a club". This is a new phrase dreamed up during the NewHun saga to try and pretend that a separate club entity existed that could live on when the company died. So, on planet reality this actually means the club itself, ie. Heart of Midlothian plc. If they have an insolvency event then the deduction is automatic.

- "Group undertaking". I posted the definition of this above and UBIG definitely falls into this category. In this case the deduction isn't automatic but would be decided by the SPL board with regard to:

(i) the need to protect the integrity and continuity of the League;
(ii) the reputation of the League; and
(iii) the relationship between such owner and operator and the Group Undertaking concerned


Can't see how Dundee's lawyers could possibly lose?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkS6R0YtobQ

[Saorsa]

Any smart cookies able to save those pages in case they get taken down?saved :greengrin

[littleplum]

Grant Russell ‏@STVGrant (https://twitter.com/STVGrant) 43s (https://twitter.com/STVGrant/status/335075684219228160) STV understands the SPL has asked its lawyers for advice on its own insolvency rules over Hearts/UBIG situation

[Www1875hfc]

Can we now arrange a wreath from :hnet:

Dan,any chance o the tombstone updated to 2013 please \0/

[down-the-slope]

Hearts directors talk about today's events...

Heart of Midlothian FC today made the following statement in relation to parent company UBIG.

"Heart of Midlothian Football Club can today acknowledge it is aware of a report circulating in Lithuania relating to its parent company UAB Ukio Banko Investicine Grupe (UBIG).

"The club is seeking clarification regarding UBIG's current situation and as such, it would be inappropriate to comment further at this stage."

Maybe I should just email them copy of

http://www.bankrotodep.lt/Images/page_head.gif

listing I posted on here....more than a report Pink People

[Andy74]

Grant Russell ‏@STVGrant (https://twitter.com/STVGrant) 43s (https://twitter.com/STVGrant/status/335075684219228160) STV understands the SPL has asked its lawyers for advice on its own insolvency rules over Hearts/UBIG situation

Should have been done months ago!

[Westie1875]

Grant Russell ‏@STVGrant (https://twitter.com/STVGrant) 43s (https://twitter.com/STVGrant/status/335075684219228160) STV understands the SPL has asked its lawyers for advice on its own insolvency rules over Hearts/UBIG situation

:wtf: :panic:

[EuanH78]

To be honest the SPL would be insane not to give Hearts the points deduction now. They are obviously going to go breasts skywards in the summer anyway. :aok:

[down-the-slope]

Grant Russell ‏@STVGrant (https://twitter.com/STVGrant) 43s (https://twitter.com/STVGrant/status/335075684219228160) STV understands the SPL has asked its lawyers for advice on its own insolvency rules over Hearts/UBIG situation
STV

News is crap...but get it on...Hearts / UBIG in the headlines...

[givescotlandfreedom]

saved :greengrin

:thumbsup:

[Mikey]

Quality post from over the road........


So we could be relegated through no fault of our own?


Grant Russell ‏@STVGrant (https://twitter.com/STVGrant) 43s (https://twitter.com/STVGrant/status/335075684219228160) STV understands the SPL has asked its lawyers for advice on its own insolvency rules over Hearts/UBIG situation

The wheels are in motion..................

[neilmartinrocks]

Quality post from over the road........

:faf::faf::faf::faf::faf:

[Onceinawhile]

So fedotovas (the man in charge of hearts) has confirmed It's true.. but hearts are trying to find out what the answer is...

[CraigHibee]

hearts claim the cup final result last may finished hibs...


how good does it feel to know that WE effectively finished them by beating them on sunday? (pending points deduction) :greengrin

[Lee Marvin]

Quality post from over the road........

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahaha. Magnificent

[JeMeSouviens]

:wtf: :panic:

To be fair, the rules weren't written with regard to procedures in Lithuania. Mind you, they're less than a year old, arguably they ought to have been. :wink:

[littleplum]

Grant Russell ‏@STVGrant (https://twitter.com/STVGrant) 4m (https://twitter.com/STVGrant/status/335077513413935104) Many asking if delay would offset any points deduction until next season. The insolvency event of UBIG arguably has occurred. So no.

[Lee Marvin]

Ross Caldwell could have relegated hearts. Surely that's worth a statue outside ER........ :)

[God Petrie]

Haha what is the deadline for the points deduction. Thought it was end of May.

[lucky]

Finally the bsstards are getting their just deserves.

[Eganov]

I'd maybe even prefer them not to be relegated this year just so next season they start with the points deduction, with no prospects, no players and we can give them a season long send-off of abject humiliation and a few right good pumpings. good times ahead:flag:

[Saorsa]

Can we now arrange a wreath from :hnet:

Dan,any chance o the tombstone updated to 2013 please \0/I think we should wait for a proper date,


hopefully the 19th of May :greengrin


5-1 :blah: hope it was worth it :bye:

[Treadstone]

Sportsound link here (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/scotland/17325775)

[God Petrie]

Mock funeral would be amusing. I'm sure boca did this when river got relegated.

[Killiehibbie]

:partyhibb

[Hibby70]

Saturdays gonna be great. Who's organising musical chairs?

[Sean1875]

I am so happy.

[cocopops1875]

Meanwhile on Kickback http://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/index.php?/topic/128075-hibernian-reject-darren-mccormack/
:ostrich::ostrich::ostrich:

[Aldo]

I think we should wait for a proper date,

hopefully the 19th of May :greengrin

5-1 :blah: hope it was worth it :bye:

J hopefully so or there or there abouts. Eldest daughters birthday is the 19th of May so want this to happen this weekend.

I told her what could happen... She said AWESOME and started singing

Allez Allez Au

Tear to my eye

GG. Next weekend is going to be some party btw

[Treadstone]

Ian Murray all over this on Twitter : Posted half an hour ago


Ian Murray MP ‏@IanMurrayMP (https://twitter.com/IanMurrayMP)29m (https://twitter.com/IanMurrayMP/status/335073844152913920)
Letter proves Tory Minister opposes his own privatisation plans. Fire sale of Royal Mail 2 save Chancellors blushes

[God Petrie]

There is literally nothing on kickback about this. They deserve everything they get.

[Aldo]

Apparently our team is full if deviants. Don't know many Hibs players who are on the Sex Offenders register or ex managers who have been convicted if under age sex?

God they are deluded!

[JeMeSouviens]

There is literally nothing on kickback about this. They deserve everything they get.

It's in the "4 clubs want clarity" thread.

[ColintonHibs]

The hibs are having a party
The hearts are going bust

:flag::flag::flag::flag:

[Westie1875]

Sportsound is hilarious, they are all trying to convince each other that Hearts will be ok and will find a way out of being relegated!

[WestEndHibee]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fenMbcZgqD4

This just gets sweeter and sweeter after hearing their "Hibs are in their beds" version all Summer.

[Andy74]

Meanwhile on Kickback http://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/index.php?/topic/128075-hibernian-reject-darren-mccormack/
:ostrich::ostrich::ostrich:

Wow. They have no comprehension of themselves at all.

[21.05.2016]

What a complete joke of a club :faf:

Pretty much sums it up Sean :aok: Absolute corrupt, shambles, disgusting football club and I pray to God their demise is as painful as possible!

[Oscar T Grouch]

From yakback
Some yam fud
Chill peeps! All we need to do is win at the weekend. Then if Dundee lose we'll be 18 ahead with a deduction of only 17. even if Dundee draw we'll stay up on goal dif.

Just think, In admin, -17 points but still don't go down, clean slate for next year.

Almost worth it just to see the reactions in Govan and Lochend.

Vlads final act as WUM in cheif.

:confused:
Have they forgotten who Dundee are playing:greengrin

Edit: and he thinks they get 5 points for a win

[Onion]

The wheels are in motion..................

Not sure why they're bothering with legal advice as Yams have no money left to challenge the SPL in court :greengrin

[Sanger]

Trust me to be in meetings all afternoon and miss this! Have we won the last ever derby in the last ever minute? Karma!

[EuanH78]

From yakback
Some yam fud
Chill peeps! All we need to do is win at the weekend. Then if Dundee lose we'll be 18 ahead with a deduction of only 17. even if Dundee draw we'll stay up on goal dif.

Just think, In admin, -17 points but still don't go down, clean slate for next year.

Almost worth it just to see the reactions in Govan and Lochend.

Vlads final act as WUM in cheif.

:confused:
Have they forgotten who Dundee are playing:greengrin

Seems he's forgotten how maths works as well, by my reckoning they are only 13 points ahead of Dundee.

[God Petrie]

From yakback
Some yam fud
Chill peeps! All we need to do is win at the weekend. Then if Dundee lose we'll be 18 ahead with a deduction of only 17. even if Dundee draw we'll stay up on goal dif.

Just think, In admin, -17 points but still don't go down, clean slate for next year.

Almost worth it just to see the reactions in Govan and Lochend.

Vlads final act as WUM in cheif.

:confused:
Have they forgotten who Dundee are playing:greengrin

They're 13pts behind them and its an 18pt deduction. "Chill peeps" indeed.

[Dibben]

This is hot news over on sickbag, someone even claims they might not get there share certificates after all! :faf:

Oh ma sides...

[hibee_girl]

From yakback
Some yam fud
Chill peeps! All we need to do is win at the weekend. Then if Dundee lose we'll be 18 ahead with a deduction of only 17. even if Dundee draw we'll stay up on goal dif.

Just think, In admin, -17 points but still don't go down, clean slate for next year.

Almost worth it just to see the reactions in Govan and Lochend.

Vlads final act as WUM in cheif.

:confused:
Have they forgotten who Dundee are playing:greengrin

Edit: and he thinks they get 5 points for a win

They are only 13 points ahead so 18 points deduction world relegate them regardless of this weekends results

[Phil D. Rolls]

Quality post from over the road........

:faf:

And the hits just keep on coming.

[21.05.2016]

From yakback
Some yam fud
Chill peeps! All we need to do is win at the weekend. Then if Dundee lose we'll be 18 ahead with a deduction of only 17. even if Dundee draw we'll stay up on goal dif.

Just think, In admin, -17 points but still don't go down, clean slate for next year.

Almost worth it just to see the reactions in Govan and Lochend.

Vlads final act as WUM in cheif.

:confused:
Have they forgotten who Dundee are playing:greengrin

Edit: and he thinks they get 5 points for a win

If this turns out to be the case it will be the first time in my entire life that I will be wanting hibs to loose lol!

[Pretty Boy]

I've said for some time that Hibs girls under 8s deserve a shot in the 1st team on Saturday.

Edit. Just realised this weekends results may be irrelevant.

[Saorsa]

http://i42.tinypic.com/8vurro.jpg

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Is iplayer radio available for android only ? It's a bummer that the IMoan doesn't support flash even the browser I paid to sort the prob can't get around :(

[Juice-Terry]

From yakback
Some yam fud
Chill peeps! All we need to do is win at the weekend. Then if Dundee lose we'll be 18 ahead with a deduction of only 17. even if Dundee draw we'll stay up on goal dif.

Just think, In admin, -17 points but still don't go down, clean slate for next year.

Almost worth it just to see the reactions in Govan and Lochend.

Vlads final act as WUM in cheif.

:confused:
Have they forgotten who Dundee are playing:greengrin

Edit: and he thinks they get 5 points for a win

:confused: That's wrong in so many ways. But then again, what would you expect?

[kdhibees1]

Amazing to read the tubes' comments over there. Absolutely staggering!!

[21.05.2016]

I've said for some time that Hibs girls under 8s deserve a shot in the 1st team on Saturday.

Totally agree, gender and age equality :aok::greengrin

[Sanger]

All's Barry then?

[joe breezy]

Can we play the under 15 team against Dundee? Important our players get a rest before the final... :greengrin

[fat freddy]

I wonder what sort of reception the walking dead will give to their hero Paul Hartley next season when his Alloa side destroy whatever is left of their squad...back to back relegation is a reality for these clowns if the SPL follow their rules and deduct the points that will send them down...one thing is for sure, if they dont bounce back at the first time of asking, they will end up down there for a minimum of three seasons as they will have sevco to compete against the season after next...oh, happy days.

[Pete]

This season is just getting better and better!

[21.05.2016]

Amazing to read the tubes' comments over there. Absolutely staggering!!

Absolutly no clue do they?! hahaha awck well they have 5-1 and we haven't won the cup since 1902 so everything is great don't you know hahaa!

[Pretty Boy]

Why are the fans still doing nothing?

My facebook is full of 5-1 and back in a year debt free pish. Not sure what could be done but remember when the Mercer story broke people descended on ER in minutes.

Have theu really got so deluded they genuinely believe everything will be ok?

[TowerHibs]

Chill peeps! All we need to do is win at the weekend. Then if Dundee lose we'll be 18 ahead with a deduction of only 17. even if Dundee draw we'll stay up on goal dif.

Just think, In admin, -17 points but still don't go down, clean slate for next year.

Almost worth it just to see the reactions in Govan and Lochend.

Vlads final act as WUM in cheif.

good maths buddy

[Togs91]

http://i42.tinypic.com/8vurro.jpg


Just slice my sides why dont you :thumbsup::not worth:hyper:

[joe breezy]

Is iplayer radio available for android only ? It's a bummer that the IMoan doesn't support flash even the browser I paid to sort the prob can't get around :(

It's all about Sevco at the moment anyway, they're in even more turmoil too somehow

[Oscar T Grouch]

Amazing to read the tubes' comments over there. Absolutely staggering!!

It is brilliant I'm having so much fun. Deluded, stupid, plain mad, grasping at straws, it no oor fault, why should we get punished it UBIG in solvent :LOL:

[Phil D. Rolls]

Meanwhile on Kickback http://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/index.php?/topic/128075-hibernian-reject-darren-mccormack/
:ostrich::ostrich::ostrich:

Reminds me of a dramatisation, I saw once, about Hitlers last days.

All the people in the bunker, knew the game was up, and their personalities totally disintegrated. They turned to all forms of deviance to distract themselves from the reality of their situation.

[Craig_in_Prague]

Why are the fans still doing nothing?

My facebook is full of 5-1 and back in a year debt free pish. Not sure what could be done but remember when the Mercer story broke people descended on ER in minutes.

Have theu really got so deluded they genuinely believe everything will be ok?

Same here +
see the comments on FB, BBC radio scotland story.
"1st division for a year and new owners, thanks for the 2 cups etc"
- Barry ( !!!! )

Allisbarry

[Golden Bear]

Can we play the under 15 team against Dundee? Important our players get a rest before the final... :greengrin

As things stand, our result v Dundee is of absolutely no consequence and will have no bearing on THEM (unfortunately!)

It's now a case of 'Mon the SPL and their lawyers ------------- get stuck right in tae the bassas!!

Do the right thing, you know it makes sense.

:pray:

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Storm clouds gather over the wongadome...

9909

Iphone failure sorry!

[MyJo]

From yakback
Some yam fud
Chill peeps! All we need to do is win at the weekend. Then if Dundee lose we'll be 18 ahead with a deduction of only 17. even if Dundee draw we'll stay up on goal dif.

Just think, In admin, -17 points but still don't go down, clean slate for next year.

Almost worth it just to see the reactions in Govan and Lochend.

Vlads final act as WUM in cheif.

:confused:
Have they forgotten who Dundee are playing:greengrin

Edit: and he thinks they get 5 points for a win

Yamathmatics in action

:facepalm:

[hibby rae]

From yakback
Some yam fud
Chill peeps! All we need to do is win at the weekend. Then if Dundee lose we'll be 18 ahead with a deduction of only 17. even if Dundee draw we'll stay up on goal dif.

Just think, In admin, -17 points but still don't go down, clean slate for next year.

Almost worth it just to see the reactions in Govan and Lochend.

Vlads final act as WUM in cheif.

:confused:
Have they forgotten who Dundee are playing:greengrin

Edit: and he thinks they get 5 points for a win

I didn't know their accountant was on kickback.

[Gus Fring]

From yakback
Some yam fud
Chill peeps! All we need to do is win at the weekend. Then if Dundee lose we'll be 18 ahead with a deduction of only 17. even if Dundee draw we'll stay up on goal dif.

Just think, In admin, -17 points but still don't go down, clean slate for next year.

Almost worth it just to see the reactions in Govan and Lochend.

Vlads final act as WUM in cheif.

:confused:
Have they forgotten who Dundee are playing:greengrin

Edit: and he thinks they get 5 points for a win

His maths are horrible. That means Hearts get 5 points for a win. It's also an 18 point deduction, not a 17.

[Hibee Ryan]

hhahahahaahahahahahahahahahhaah

that is all

[SvenNeil]

Oh ma sides :faf:

This is tremendous news. If they get deducted the points on the 19th it would be soooo sweet.

Which club in Edinburgh is dead now? :giruy::smug:

[Dibben]

Quality post from over the road........

That is simply a fantastic quote!!!

[MyJo]

Tell all the yams you know, thier club is deid and we're no!
their all out of luck, we dont give a F$%&
The 1st division is where they will go!

:flag:

[soda70]

Dear Dundee,



GET YOUR FINGER OOT YOUR ***** AND APPEAL TO THE SPL!



Relegate they pink scarf twirling gimps.
:flag:

[JimBHibees]

http://i42.tinypic.com/8vurro.jpg


:faf::faf:

[Aldo]

Tell all the yams you know, thier club is deid and we're no!
their all out of luck, we dont give a F$%&
The 1st division is where they will go!

:flag:

This would be good at Hampden!

[Famous Fiver]

We have been hearing from them for years that they only owe the money to themselves . So, Ukio Bankas=UBIG=Heart of Midlothian FC. Ukio and UBIG are down the swannie. Heart of Midlothian about to follow. Tick, Tock..............

[Gus Fring]

As much as I would love it to happen I'd have to doubt that anything will happen on the 19th as it's a Sunday. Can't see the SPL beaks having any meetings until the monday at the earliest. Hopefully something happens tomorrow though if the lawyers get back to them quick enough

[blackpoolhibs]

So the big decision the authorities have to make is when UBIG are declared insolvent, does them saying they are insolvent today mark the date of their insolvency, or does it have to be ratified by a court?