Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

[CB_NO3]

No, the Liths would not be involved in a CVA as they are secured creditors.
I reckon that HMRC would be the main creditors in a CVA, although they're not known for accepting CVAs so the outcome would be the same .. rejected.
I see, well who is the other 10m debt owed too? We are hearing that 15m is owed to Ukio but they are 25 million in debt. Am guessing the other 10m is owed to UBIG? Are they also a secured creditor? If so, then your right, that only leaves HMRC.

[greenginger]

Slightly off topic but my mate is a car salesman with Volkswagen on Gorgie Road. They store about 10 to 15 cars in the car park at the main stand at Tynecastle, something they have done for years with the club, they have some sort of agreement. Anyway they got told yesterday to have all the cars moved from the car park as soon as possible. Bit strange considering they have been there for about 4 years.

Far from off topic. I've seen the cars there myself in the car park off Wheatfield Street and wondered where they had come from.

If the padlocks go on the gates the cars could be claimed as Hearts assets by an admin. :thumbsup:

[Mikey]

Two points on the bit you quoted.


Hearts are not self-sufficient. The amounts owed to UBIG were due for repayment by December 2011 HoMFC have been unable to make that repayment for over a year, therefore they can't pay their debts as they fall due, therefore they are insolvent.
'Mr Romanov' has often boasted about putting £60m into HoMFC since he bought them. That money has (or should have) contributed massively to the club's performance over those years and has also contributed to UBIG's downfall. No club in Scotland has benefitted more from having a parent company and no club is more deserving of the penalties for failure of their group.


EVERY club in the SPL, or club that's been drawn against them in the cup, has suffered because of their financial doping. There's absolutely no way they should be dodging the points deduction.

[JeMeSouviens]

Yeah the CVA would have to be agreed by the Lithuanian authorities as they are the main creditor with the bulk of the debt. It would make no sense for them to accept a 20p in the £1 deal as they will end up owning the stadium (which was valued at 6.8m as security on the 15m debt to Ukio). I think it will take someone to offer 6.8 million in order for the Liths to talk, if they dont they could eventually liquidate the company and sell the stadium anyway.

The debt to Lithuania is secured though. As I understand it (via Cav's postings) the secured debt has to be settled first before any potential CVA is put to the unsecured creditors. As there is no chance of anybody coming forward with any real dough, the Lithuanian authorities will get it all and there will be nothing for a CVA.

An administration only makes sense as a way to skip debt if a new owner has already done a deal to buy off the Lithuanians at a reduced level. I guess it could also be used as a desperate stalling tactic ... :wink:

[GordonHFC]

BTW, some folk here have incorrectly stated that HMFC would be deducted a minimum of 15 points next season. That isn't correct.

Rule A6.8 states that the minimum deduction is 10 points. As HMFC already have more than 30 points this season, the deduction would be one third (rounded up) of their final total this season. As it stands that would be 14 (40/3 = 13.333).

If, as has been suggested, they are waiting until the end of the season to put themselves (or be put into) administration so that any points deduction will be from the start of next season and allowing them to remain in the SPL. Surely it is in their best interests not to gain any more points this season therefore limiting the points deduction next season.

[s.a.m]

Slightly off topic but my mate is a car salesman with Volkswagen on Gorgie Road. They store about 10 to 15 cars in the car park at the main stand at Tynecastle, something they have done for years with the club, they have some sort of agreement. Anyway they got told yesterday to have all the cars moved from the car park as soon as possible. Bit strange considering they have been there for about 4 years.


Far from off topic. I've seen the cars there myself in the car park off Wheatfield Street and wondered where they had come from.

If the padlocks go on the gates the cars could be claimed as Hearts assets by an admin. :thumbsup:

:agree: Absolutely properly on-topic. Sounds like Something Is Afoot. Hopefully.:greengrin

[Alex Trager]

So as I understand it, somehow the rules of the SPL have changed and they no longer have to hold of until the 1st of June, the traditional end of season, but now only have to wait until the last SPL fixture is played. Is anyone not a bit mythed by this? How can it have changed overnight?
The SPL playing games again to keep them in the league and ensure they keep the ed derby?

[Craig_in_Prague]

I see, well who is the other 10m debt owed too? We are hearing that 15m is owed to Ukio but they are 25 million in debt. Am guessing the other 10m is owed to UBIG? Are they also a secured creditor? If so, then your right, that only leaves HMRC.

Yes, the other 10M is owed to UBIG.

[Mikey]

So as I understand it, somehow the rules of the SPL have changed and they no longer have to hold of until the 1st of June, the traditional end of season, but now only have to wait until the last SPL fixture is played. Is anyone not a bit mythed by this? How can it have changed overnight?
The SPL playing games again to keep them in the league and ensure they keep the ed derby?

To be fair, it says the last game in the rules and there's no evidence to suggest they've been changed in the last few days.

[Part/Time Supporter]

If, as has been suggested, they are waiting until the end of the season to put themselves (or be put into) administration so that any points deduction will be from the start of next season and allowing them to remain in the SPL. Surely it is in their best interests not to gain any more points this season therefore limiting the points deduction next season.

Not really.

Even if they won their last three games, it would only cost them three more points next season. By winning their last three games, they would likely finish at least 8th, gaining at least £150K in prize money on their current position.

[Alex Trager]

To be fair, it says the last game in the rules and there's no evidence to suggest they've been changed in the last few days.

So why has everyone been saying the 1st of June? As I thought that's when a season ends. It certainly does in FIFA haha

[Aldo]

I am really really starting to think that as soon as this game has been played then the fun will start....

Hence they get away with it big time....

This is my one and only fear.

They know exactly what they are doing IMHO

[Part/Time Supporter]

So why has everyone been saying the 1st of June? As I thought that's when a season ends. It certainly does in FIFA haha

It was (another error) in the Sun story about Hearts on Tuesday.

The SPL rulebook was largely revised at the end of last season, due to clubs being unhappy with the rules as they related to Rangers.


I am really really starting to think that as soon as this game has been played then the fun will start....

Hence they get away with it big time....

This is my one and only fear.

They know exactly what they are doing IMHO

Yes and no. HMFC have a clear short term objective, which is to ensure that no points penalty applies this season. Even if they succeed in that, however, it is far from the end of their problems.

eg1 the points penalty would apply next season

eg2 HMFC would be at risk of liquidation (owing £1M unsecured to HMRC)

eg3 they would be unable to sign players while in administration

[Alex Trager]

Who's to say even if they manage to get to the end of the season, without going into admin then they go into it, they will make it out of admin? Why is this likely

[Alex Trager]

It was (another error) in the Sun story about Hearts on Tuesday.

The SPL was largely revised at the end of last season, due to clubs being unhappy with the rules as they related to Rangers.

Ah I see. Fair enough take it back. Although one thing to think about the corrupt SFA is why has sheils retracted his statement about paranoid fc after a meeting with the SFA aka, Peter lawell

[Aldo]

Yes and no. HMFC have a clear short term objective, which is to ensure that no points penalty applies this season. Even if they succeed in that, however, it is far from the end of their problems.

eg1 the points penalty would apply next season

eg2 HMFC would be at risk of liquidation (owing £1M unsecured to HMRC)

eg3 they would be unable to sign players while in administration

I see. Why can thus not just happen.

[Newry Hibs]

Here's a scenario that may play out if HMFC hang on .....

HMFC avoid admin and relegation this season - but are so weakened (by admin and 14 points) next season that they get relegated to Div 1. In the meantime The Rangers walk thru' Div 2 next season and are promoted to Div 1. So the season after next sees either Big Hun or Little Hun battle out for promotion with one of them failing (assuming there isn't a fix by then to promote 2 teams).

[Alex Trager]

Going to repost this so someone can answer it as I don't understand this:
Who's to say even if they manage to get to the end of the season, without going into admin then they go into it, they will make it out of admin? Why is this likely
Can this not lead to liquidation?

[Leithenhibby]

Here's a scenario that may play out if HMFC hang on .....

HMFC avoid admin and relegation this season - but are so weakened (by admin and 14 points) next season that they get relegated to Div 1. In the meantime The Rangers walk thru' Div 2 next season and are promoted to Div 1. So the season after next sees either Big Hun or Little Hun battle out for promotion with one of them failing (assuming there isn't a fix by then to promote 2 teams).

You've just solved your own scenario .......... :wink:

[Caversham Green]

I am really really starting to think that as soon as this game has been played then the fun will start....

Hence they get away with it big time....

This is my one and only fear.

They know exactly what they are doing IMHO

Mibbes aye......

It's worth remembering that in relation to these discussions HoMFC are their directors - as things stand no-one else can take defensive action on behalf of the club. Those directors are all Lithuanian based and were also directors of the rapidly failing UBIG until they bailed out en masse. That would suggest that a) they're not very good and b) they're more concerned with protecting their own ***** than the health of a wee Scottish football club.

[jonty]

Here's a scenario that may play out if HMFC hang on .....

HMFC avoid admin and relegation this season - but are so weakened (by admin and 14 points) next season that they get relegated to Div 1. In the meantime The Rangers walk thru' Div 2 next season and are promoted to Div 1. So the season after next sees either Big Hun or Little Hun battle out for promotion with one of them failing (assuming there isn't a fix by then to promote 2 teams).

Play-offs will have been introduced by then. of course you're also assuming that sevco5088 haven't gone through yet another administration/liquidation before then. And that hahahahearts haven't been relegated to sfl2

[JeMeSouviens]

BTW, some folk here have incorrectly stated that HMFC would be deducted a minimum of 15 points next season. That isn't correct.

Rule A6.8 states that the minimum deduction is 10 points. As HMFC already have more than 30 points this season, the deduction would be one third (rounded up) of their final total this season. As it stands that would be 14 (40/3 = 13.333).

Oops that was me, it was proposed as 15 points I think, they must've changed it in smoke filled rooms. :cb

[proud_and_green]

Slightly off topic but my mate is a car salesman with Volkswagen on Gorgie Road. They store about 10 to 15 cars in the car park at the main stand at Tynecastle, something they have done for years with the club, they have some sort of agreement. Anyway they got told yesterday to have all the cars moved from the car park as soon as possible. Bit strange considering they have been there for about 4 years.

That is bang on topic. Quite often people buy goods early and have them stored on the premises of the wholesaler, this can be a bit dodgy because if the wholesaler goes bust and is in a formal insolvency procedure - those goods can be deemed to be part of the estate of the insolvent wholesaler - it becomes very complicated and can take ages to get your goods back. Western storing their stock at Tynecastle would be subject to the same difficulties if Hearts were to go under.

Hearts are preparing the ground for admin and have, to be fair to them, informed Western VW.

It is iminent!

[CropleyWasGod]

That is bang on topic. Quite often people buy goods early and have them stored on the premises of the wholesaler, this can be a bit dodgy because if the wholesaler goes bust and is in a formal insolvency procedure - those goods can be deemed to be part of the estate of the insolvent wholesaler - it becomes very complicated and can take ages to get your goods back. Western storing their stock at Tynecastle would be subject to the same difficulties if Hearts were to go under.

Hearts are preparing the ground for admin and have, to be fair to them, informed Western VW.

It is iminent!

Or, another possibility,

It's Western who have decided to remove the cars, to protect themselves.

[JeMeSouviens]

Going to repost this so someone can answer it as I don't understand this:
Who's to say even if they manage to get to the end of the season, without going into admin then they go into it, they will make it out of admin? Why is this likely
Can this not lead to liquidation?

Oh yes, indeedy. :greengrin

I think they are taking the approach that since their problems are so large there's no point worrying about them and they might as well focus on something they think they can control, getting to the end of the season.

However, whether they get to the end of the season is fairly irrelevant in the long term. They still need a combination of a buyer with a load of cash and a very softly-softly approach from the Lithuanian liquidators. The less they get of one, the more they need of the other and at the moment, they don't seem to stand much chance of getting either.

What a wee shame. :aok:

[s.a.m]

That is bang on topic. Quite often people buy goods early and have them stored on the premises of the wholesaler, this can be a bit dodgy because if the wholesaler goes bust and is in a formal insolvency procedure - those goods can be deemed to be part of the estate of the insolvent wholesaler - it becomes very complicated and can take ages to get your goods back. Western storing their stock at Tynecastle would be subject to the same difficulties if Hearts were to go under.

Hearts are preparing the ground for admin and have, to be fair to them, informed Western VW.

It is iminent!

I've always felt (for no good reason...) that something like this is how Jambogeddon would become apparent; not with dramatic announcements or gestures.



Melodrama works for me as well, though.:aok:

[Caversham Green]

Going to repost this so someone can answer it as I don't understand this:
Who's to say even if they manage to get to the end of the season, without going into admin then they go into it, they will make it out of admin? Why is this likely
Can this not lead to liquidation?

Yes it could and almost certainly would unless things have changed.

The way I understand things, the vast majority of their debt is owed to UBIG/Ukio and is secured on the assets. That means that in administration those debts would be disregarded in a vote for a CVA - the companies can decide whether or not to call in the debts by foreclosing without administration taking place. There are no assets left to distribute among the remaining creditors and in any case they are likely to be dominated by HMRC who have a policy of not agreeing to CVAs, so a CVA is unlikely to be approved. I think administration would only work if the purpose was to find a new buyer with enough money to satisfy the unsecured creditors and if such a buyer was about they could do it all without administration.

They are entirely at the mercy of their creditors in Lithuania IMO, but they still have the UK problem of Companies House chasing audited accounts - that won't go away either.

[Alex Trager]

Oh yes, indeedy. :greengrin

I think they are taking the approach that since their problems are so large there's no point worrying about them and they might as well focus on something they think they can control, getting to the end of the season.

However, whether they get to the end of the season is fairly irrelevant in the long term. They still need a combination of a buyer with a load of cash and a very softly-softly approach from the Lithuanian liquidators. The less they get of one, the more they need of the other and at the moment, they don't seem to stand much chance of getting either.

What a wee shame. :aok:

So as much as they(Goldy Locks) like to think all is dandy it is not. Admin is still a big bad thing(mummy bear). That can lead to an even bigger bad thing(daddy bear)

[proud_and_green]

Or, another possibility,

It's Western who have decided to remove the cars, to protect themselves.

very true and probably most likely. Hearts doing this would alert businesses to their impending admin/liquidation which in turn would start the ball rolling out of their control, it could also be judged to be acknowledgement that they are trading while insolvent.

[CropleyWasGod]

So as much as they(little red riding hood) like to think all is dandy it is not. Admin is still a big bad thing(mummy bear). That can lead to an even bigger bad thing(daddy bear£

Mixing your fairy stories a bit, no? :greengrin

[Alex Trager]

Mixing your fairy stories a bit, no? :greengrin

Don't think so who sat at the table. Aww it was goldy locks *rapidly changes the original*

[Waxy]

Whos been banking in myyyyyy bank

[matty_f]

There definitely seems to be a feeling that the threat of something happening is gathering momentum and (for the Yams) an uncomfortable pace.

Personally, I wish it would hurry the **** up.

[jodjam]

Don't think so who sat at the table. Aww it was goldy locks *rapidly changes the original*

So did this whole sordid tale start with fatty foulkes leaning over Romanov's casket and waking him with a kiss

[Alex Trager]

Right guys. I am currently arguing with a paranoid him about the end of the season. After listen to what Mikey had to say about the end of season will someone tell me the answer to these two texts as they don't seem to understand the rules and I'm
Wondering, again, when it ends.


This is the first of two texts
?? Relegation and promotion happens in may then? Nope. June. We will find out soon, check spl website for league placings they will reset it June, or have done. Don't back the spl up with a rule that doesn't show when the season officially ends x

And the second
No? Admin does. Season doesn't end when the final whistle goes. And Hun paranoia? Your at the wind up pal, spl give them enough rope and they will hang themselfs, just another bit of rope x

[matty_f]

Whos been banking in myyyyyy bank

:hilarious

[Alex Trager]

Whos been banking in myyyyyy bank

Not me * quivering little yam that was so smug most of their, soon to come to an end, life


So did this whole sordid tale start with fatty foulkes leaning over Romanov's casket and waking him with a kiss

Aw I dono. I am not of child spawning age ATM so haven't heard these stories for a lonnng time 17-18 years.

[s.a.m]

If we're doing children's literature, I like this contribution to the Hearts dilemma from the fish in 'The Cat in the Hat':

And this mess is so big
And so deep and so tall
We can not pick it up
There is no way at all!

[CropleyWasGod]

Right guys. I am currently arguing with a paranoid him about the end of the season. After listen to what Mikey had to say about the end of season will someone tell me the answer to these two texts as they don't seem to understand the rules and I'm
Wondering, again, when it ends.


This is the first of two texts
?? Relegation and promotion happens in may then? Nope. June. We will find out soon, check spl website for league placings they will reset it June, or have done. Don't back the spl up with a rule that doesn't show when the season officially ends x

And the second
No? Admin does. Season doesn't end when the final whistle goes. And Hun paranoia? Your at the wind up pal, spl give them enough rope and they will hang themselfs, just another bit of rope x

The SPL rule book was posted on here.

The season ends after the final fixture, or at such time as the Board decide.

[Alex Trager]

The SPL rule book was posted on here.

The season ends after the final fixture, or at such time as the Board decide.

So what about people being promoted? In fact that happens at the start of the next season no?
Basically the Hun is saying that the season doesn't end when it says in the rules. Because of promotion and relegation

[CropleyWasGod]

So what about people being promoted? In fact that happens at the start of the next season no?
Basically the Hun is saying that the season doesn't end when it says in the rules. Because of promotion and relegation

So a Hun is saying that the rules are irrelevant. :greengrin

The season ends. THEN the process of transferring the SPL share takes place. THEN the new season starts.

[Gingertosser]

Does the 1st June date not refer to the transfer of the SPL share and not the end of the season ?

[Alex Trager]

So a Hun is saying that the rules are irrelevant. :greengrin

The season ends. THEN the process of transferring the SPL share takes place. THEN the new season starts.

This is his latest reply

Ok so because it's not a rule it doesn't matter. Year in year out is the same June 1st, then without notice that jumps forward for 1 season, what's the reasons? Why wasn't this said at start of season? X

Also this
Transfer of shares has been June 1st so basically end if season. Cause when the shares are swapped nothing can happen. This year it's in may, what is so hard to understand here?

[Mon Dieu4]

This is his latest reply

Ok so because it's not a rule it doesn't matter. Year in year out is the same June 1st, then without notice that jumps forward for 1 season, what's the reasons? Why wasn't this said at start of season? X

Also this
Transfer of shares has been June 1st so basically end if season. Cause when the shares are swapped nothing can happen. This year it's in may, what is so hard to understand here?

i must be getting old but what's with the young team putting X at the end of messages these days, i see it on Facebook even between men, metrosexualism gone too far? id just delete him bud!

[CropleyWasGod]

This is his latest reply

Ok so because it's not a rule it doesn't matter. Year in year out is the same June 1st, then without notice that jumps forward for 1 season, what's the reasons? Why wasn't this said at start of season? X

Also this
Transfer of shares has been June 1st so basically end if season. Cause when the shares are swapped nothing can happen. This year it's in may, what is so hard to understand here?

The Rules are made by the SPL Board, and ratified by the clubs. There is no mystery here. If they have been changed, then all the clubs know about it.

[EdinMike]

I've been posting WUM nonsense on Facebook since last night and the Jambo's aren't biting...

Have they accepted their fate ?! :na na:

[Alex Trager]

i must be getting old but what's with the young team putting X at the end of messages these days, i see it on Facebook even between men, metrosexualism gone too far? id just delete him bud!

I never put kisses at the end which you'd see if I put my texts up haha.


The Rules are made by the SPL Board, and ratified by the clubs. There is no mystery here. If they have been changed, then all the clubs know about it.

I agree. It's just paranoia

[Seveno]

Or, another possibility,

It's Western who have decided to remove the cars, to protect themselves.

Western supplies cars to some of the players. I wonder if these are being are being recalled ?

[Part/Time Supporter]

Re the definition of a season and timing, the SPL rules are clear.

The "season" runs from the first game until the last game.

The period in between is the "close season".

Rule A6.8 states that if an insolvency event occurs during the "close season" period (ie May 20th or later), then the points penalty applies in the next "season" (ie 2013/14).

The SPL share is to be returned by the club no longer entitled to membership (ie whoever finishes 12th) ASAP after the season ends.

[Green Blood]

So the tick tock of the clock gets louder and louder! The process is underway,one which they won't survive. What really surprises me is the lack of demonstration/protest and acceptance of their predicament, they are like lambs to the slaughter, going quietly to meet their maker!

Romanov has them brainwashed, I liken it to Hitler and how his people viewed him. Look at FOH going quietly about their business, no announcements yet on their website since yesterdays news broke in Lithuania. They are clueless/rudderless and should have been much further on in their fight in readiness to save their club. They are not, no announcements of funds raised or plans to raise capital etc.

The reality is that all Hearts fans are complicit,guilty as charged for standing back and doing nothing whilst Romanov killed their club. The blame lies with them as much as it does with Vlad!

I lived through the HoH campaign and seen how active Hibs fans were in saving their club, something that has not been evident over at ***********.

When the day comes and it will, to lock the gates for the last time and demolish the stadium all Hearts fans need to have a look in the mirror and ask themselves, did I do enough to save my club! The answer to that is clearly a big no,guilty as charged all of them. I for one am delighted they are going to to the wall as it will be Hibs gain in many ways, one city one club!

We are all on here discussing the merits of this plan or that outcome, some of us want it to happen now, some of us see that the process has a little more time yet for the outcome to be clear, it will happen they can't survive they are closer to the big blender than they have ever been, soon to be liquidated, gone for good! Will I miss them, not in the slightest, there demise is our gain. The day is coming maybe not soon but its coming.

[Big Sexy Dave]

If Hertz go into admin and get relegated I'd miss the derby's but I want to see them suffer.

[Glorious]

The general feeling I have seen on FB from Jamtards is they know its coming but want to make it through to June without being penalised.

I don't care how long it takes, even if they remain in SPL next season - as long as they suffer for their past, death by a thousand cuts will do me just fine.

[EdinMike]

The general feeling I have seen on FB from Jamtards is they know its coming but want to make it through to June without being penalised.

I don't care how long it takes, even if they remain in SPL next season - as long as they suffer for their past, death by a thousand cuts will do me just fine.

Not for me, this whole process has taken too long. Die now and do it swiftly ! I want to have a party... :cb

[poolman]

The general feeling I have seen on FB from Jamtards is they know its coming but want to make it through to June without being penalised.

I don't care how long it takes, even if they remain in SPL next season - as long as they suffer for their past, death by a thousand cuts will do me just fine.


FAO: Caversham and CWG :thumbsup: ( two guys by the way who have done a great job )


What do you think will be the ultimate outcome in this Yam farce

Also does this mean that Ukio Bankas will now not be opening their fandabbydozy flagship branch in Castle St now :greengrin

[WestEndHibee]

i must be getting old but what's with the young team putting X at the end of messages these days, i see it on Facebook even between men, metrosexualism gone too far? id just delete him bud!

I agree, this is the real issue here. :greengrin

[hibs4thecup1988]

So... Dundee give back their SPL. Share saturday 25th may...hearts go into admin hours later. Sunday 26th may we win that cup....

I seriously do not think my liver would hold up to the amount of alcohol I will consume...

I was off work for 2 weeks after 2007 with vocal chords knackered...wonder what will happen this year.

My mates on FB are under the impression hearts will survive though... Deluded or is there a chance??

[NW]

I am going to take a guess that

Hearts will be in the SPL next season
Hearts will still play at Tynecastle
They will go into Administration
This will end up a storm in a tea cup.

Going forward they may not own Tynecastle but I reckon an associated group will buy it on the cheap at some point and rent it back to Hearts.

[Winston Ingram]

The thing that is most farcical about this is is if administration happens after the end of the season it's actually not in Hearts interest to pick up any more points.

It'll be a 3rd of what they get this season, meaning that any games they win this season will mean a further point of next seasons total:confused:

[CropleyWasGod]

FAO: Caversham and CWG :thumbsup: ( two guys by the way who have done a great job )


What do you think will be the ultimate outcome in this Yam farce

Also does this mean that Ukio Bankas will now not be opening their fandabbydozy flagship branch in Castle St now :greengrin

I never make predictions without covering my erse with disclaimers and major insurance policies :greengrin

If I were a betting man (and I'm not, because I used to be crap at it.... so take that as a guide).....Disclaimer 1.

HMFC will not disappear. They may do a Sevco and crawl back into Division 3, or they may slip down the leagues into relative obscurity, but the commercial attraction of Hearts is not something that Scottish football will give up easily. That will stick in a lot of throats, and it does mine, but it's reality.

That said, the involvement of nasty Baltic liquidators is not something I have experienced before, so it could be much more clinical than that. Disclaimer 2.

[AinsterHibs]

I never make predictions without covering my erse with disclaimers and major insurance policies :greengrin

If I were a betting man (and I'm not, because I used to be crap at it.... so take that as a guide).....

HMFC will not disappear. They may do a Sevco and crawl back into Division 3, or they may slip down the leagues into relative obscurity, but the commercial attraction of Hearts is not something that Scottish football will give up easily. That will stick in a lot of throats, and it does mine, but it's reality.

That said, the involvement of nasty Baltic liquidators is not something I have experienced before, so it could be much more clinical than that.

The bit in bold is the interesting part of all of this, anyone know if they have had to do something akin to this to a football team in Lithuania?

[NW]

I never make predictions without covering my erse with disclaimers and major insurance policies :greengrin

If I were a betting man (and I'm not, because I used to be crap at it.... so take that as a guide).....Disclaimer 1.

HMFC will not disappear. They may do a Sevco and crawl back into Division 3, or they may slip down the leagues into relative obscurity, but the commercial attraction of Hearts is not something that Scottish football will give up easily. That will stick in a lot of throats, and it does mine, but it's reality.

That said, the involvement of nasty Baltic liquidators is not something I have experienced before, so it could be much more clinical than that. Disclaimer 2.

There is no real prediction here???

[CropleyWasGod]

There is no real prediction here???

"HMFC will not disappear." :wink:

[Vini1875]

The outcome surely will be that someone like a Tom Farmer will offer the lithianians a lump sum for hearts and tynecastle and the liquidators will take it since no-one (property developer) is going to offer money purely for the stadium while another party offers money for the club.

If however club and stadium fall into different hands they may never recover as they would have to share with us or livi, costing them more money and then go into further massive debt to build a new stadium.

They need a fans/consortium buy out or a white knight - Tom Farmer type to save them. There will be someone with the money who did not want to deal with romanov but who knows that if he waits to the last second he would be able to get them for a song. In the long run buying Hibs cost Tom Farmer nothing and did his reputation and business no harm at all, plus it earned him a considerable amount of good will from one half of the city at least.

If I was a property developer I would not buy tynecastle as it would create a lot of bad blood for my business and would be tantamount to building on a grave.

[NW]

The outcome surely will be that someone like a Tom Farmer will offer the lithianians a lump sum for hearts and tynecastle and the liquidators will take it since no-one (property developer) is going to offer money purely for the stadium while another party offers money for the club.

If however club and stadium fall into different hands they may never recover as they would have to share with us or livi, costing them more money and then go into further massive debt to build a new stadium.

They need a fans/consortium buy out or a white knight - Tom Farmer type to save them. There will be someone with the money who did not want to deal with romanov but who knows that if he waits to the last second he would be able to get them for a song. In the long run buying Hibs cost Tom Farmer nothing and did his reputation and business no harm at all, plus it earned him a considerable amount of good will from one half of the city at least.

If I was a property developer I would not buy tynecastle as it would create a lot of bad blood for my business and would be tantamount to building on a grave.

- What value does Tynecastle hold other than a stadium? What could you build there with permission? If anyone linked to Hearts could find £2.5 million I would offer it to the relevant people in Lith and get the stadium. What is the point of anyone calling in the £15 million loan. It will be never be paid / cannot be paid. The Liths may as well try and get anything they can and move on.

[Green Blood]

http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/articles/20040819/official-statement_2241384_553846

Cala Homes offered to buy the land in 2004 ( see statement above)

In March 2013 this happened - House builder Cala Homes has been bought by private equity firm Patron Capital Partners and insurer Legal & General.

see statement below

http://www.constructionenquirer.com/2013/03/18/cala-homes-bought-from-banks-in-210m-deal/


I am no expert, but I would suggest that they would see the acquisition of Tynecastle for re-development at say half of what they originally offered as a steal in 2004. The administrators Valnetas will be aware of this if not I am going to e/mail this to them.

I predict HMFC won't play at Tynecastle for very much longer, their days are numbered, they are, just believe!!

[CropleyWasGod]

- What value does Tynecastle hold other than a stadium? What could you build there with permission? If anyone linked to Hearts could find £2.5 million I would offer it to the relevant people in Lith and get the stadium. What is the point of anyone calling in the £15 million loan. It will be never be paid / cannot be paid. The Liths may as well try and get anything they can and move on.

Flats, as Cala would have done in 2004.

[NW]

Flats, as Cala would have done in 2004.

Has there not been a change in the permissions for that type of land due to the proximity of chemical etc? Maybe not but I thought it had changed. Be ******g good if it hasnt. This in my eyes is crucial

[bingo70]

Why would any successful businessman pay millions for tynecastle when its not fit for purpose and can't be renovated? They'd be better letting hearts fold, and then spend that money on a new stadium for the new company.

[CropleyWasGod]

Has there not been a change in the permissions for that type of land due to the proximity of chemical etc? Maybe not but I thought it had changed. Be ******g good if it hasnt. This in my eyes is crucial

You might be right, I do remember a whiff (:greengrin) of that.

[Sanger]

The outcome surely will be that someone like a Tom Farmer will offer the lithianians a lump sum for hearts and tynecastle and the liquidators will take it since no-one (property developer) is going to offer money purely for the stadium while another party offers money for the club.

If however club and stadium fall into different hands they may never recover as they would have to share with us or livi, costing them more money and then go into further massive debt to build a new stadium.

They need a fans/consortium buy out or a white knight - Tom Farmer type to save them. There will be someone with the money who did not want to deal with romanov but who knows that if he waits to the last second he would be able to get them for a song. In the long run buying Hibs cost Tom Farmer nothing and did his reputation and business no harm at all, plus it earned him a considerable amount of good will from one half of the city at least.

If I was a property developer I would not buy tynecastle as it would create a lot of bad blood for my business and would be tantamount to building on a grave.

I think a building company certainly a UK wide one indifferent to what some in Edinburgh would think. A property developer may buy and sit on as they did in the 70s.

Remember Lithuanian central bank has about £300 million hole to fill. Real debt of HMFC to Ukio Bankas likely to be in region of £40 million plus if take into account write-downs and debt for equity swaps. I remember it being quoted as £35 million at one point in official accounts.

Money required to buy Hears and stadium is circa £10 million. Nobody could do that outside administration/liquidation as they would have to take debts as well. And nobody or any consortium has anywhere that amount of money.

I think we will end up see Hearts going into administration and then liquation. HMRC who are outside UB debt will want some of their money back.


Ground will be sold and fans consortium could by the club at £1-2 million and re-appply to enter SFL and rent Meadowbank. That is their best scenario!

[NW]

Why would any successful businessman pay millions for tynecastle when its not fit for purpose and can't be renovated? They'd be better letting hearts fold, and then spend that money on a new stadium for the new company.

How much would buying land and building new be? Where is land available near Gorgie?

Cost of stadium / land and redevlopment and keeping club in its local area. - Far cheaper.

[jonty]

How much would buying land and building new be? Where is land available near Gorgie?

Cost of stadium / land and redevlopment and keeping club in its local area. - Far cheaper.

I'm sure the local high school could do with some playing pitches. You'd get a decent sized rugby, hockey and even tennis facilities there. The local residents would no longer have a hulking great big pink stadium blocking sunlight into their gardens.

Return the land to the people - it makes sense :wink:

[NW]

You might be right, I do remember a whiff (:greengrin) of that.

So it is only value is really current use. TBH its a good investment opportunity for someone.

Offer say £2.5 m for Stadium, charge Hearts £0.5 m per year rent on a taken as seen basis. After 7 years its a profitable machine.

[NW]

I'm sure the local high school could do with some playing pitches. You'd get a decent sized rugby, hockey and even tennis facilities there. The local residents would no longer have a hulking great big pink stadium blocking sunlight into their gardens.

Return the land to the people - it makes sense :wink:

So who buys its and pays for all this??

[DC_Hibs]

[URL]
I am no expert, but I would suggest that they would see the acquisition of Tynecastle for re-development at say half of what they originally offered as a steal in 2004.[/B]

They should be so lucky. One third is more realistic.

Doesn't matter either way. Their debts far outweigh the value of their only asset so the Liths are taking a hit regardless.
I hope that makes them very angry....

[jonty]

So who buys its and pays for all this??

Councils education budget

[DC_Hibs]

So it is only value is really current use. TBH its a good investment opportunity for someone.

Offer say £2.5 m for Stadium, charge Hearts £0.5 m per year rent on a taken as seen basis. After 7 years its a profitable machine.

Are you not going to bother taking into consideration that its not fit for purpose, the main stand would soon have no safety certificate and the maintenance costs are extremely high???

[NW]

Are you not going to bother taking into consideration that its not fit for purpose, the main stand would soon have no safety certificate and the maintenance costs are extremely high???

That would be the tenants responsibility. Owner would rent premises as seen, the upkeep etc Hearts problem. What alternative do they have?

[cocopops1875]

How much would buying land and building new be? Where is land available near Gorgie?

Cost of stadium / land and redevlopment and keeping club in its local area. - Far cheaper.

Why does it need to be near Gorgie ?
And not true on the second point as out of town would be far cheaper

[NW]

Councils education budget

Have they taken to cake baking too ha ha. I think a community garden would be better, a place for people to reflect

[Caversham Green]

The general feeling I have seen on FB from Jamtards is they know its coming but want to make it through to June without being penalised.

I don't care how long it takes, even if they remain in SPL next season - as long as they suffer for their past, death by a thousand cuts will do me just fine.

A few short months ago they were dismissing the idea of administration as 'hobonomic' nonsense and now they're desperately hoping they can hold off the inevitable to delay relegation by one season. Now try telling them that they'll struggle to get out of administration again... It's all moving slowly at the moment but they are in a very bad place and it can only get worse. Sit back and enjoy the view.

[NW]

Why does it need to be near Gorgie ?
And not true on the second point as out of town would be far cheaper

The club will want to stay in Gorgie and the council and locals will too. Is there a lot of land which is big enough with the right permissions near Edinburgh? If so cant see it being that cheap.

[Green Blood]

A few short months ago they were dismissing the idea of administration as 'hobonomic' nonsense and now they're desperately hoping they can hold off the inevitable to delay relegation by one season. Now try telling them that they'll struggle to get out of administration again... It's all moving slowly at the moment but they are in a very bad place and it can only get worse. Sit back and enjoy the view.

Far better watching them getting battered to death rather than one knockout killer blow!!

[NW]

A few short months ago they were dismissing the idea of administration as 'hobonomic' nonsense and now they're desperately hoping they can hold off the inevitable to delay relegation by one season. Now try telling them that they'll struggle to get out of administration again... It's all moving slowly at the moment but they are in a very bad place and it can only get worse. Sit back and enjoy the view.

Is there anything to stop Hearts going into Admin, agreeing a deal with HMRC and continuing on. If they can get someone to do a deal with Liths for stadium what is the point of the liths persuing the debt?

[cocopops1875]

The club will want to stay in Gorgie and the council and locals will too. Is there a lot of land which is big enough with the right permissions near Edinburgh? If so cant see it being that cheap.

Who gives a f*** what they want?
And they themselves did the groundwork for a move out of town with the online survey

[Onion]

The thing that is most farcical about this is is if administration happens after the end of the season it's actually not in Hearts interest to pick up any more points.

It'll be a 3rd of what they get this season, meaning that any games they win this season will mean a further point of next seasons total:confused:

Points deduction next season suits the Yam mentality. They'll just use is as another incentive to get above Hibs :rolleyes:

[NW]

Who gives a f*** what they want?
And they themselves did the groundwork for a move out of town with the online survey

ok. Who pays for it?

[jonty]

Have they taken to cake baking too ha ha. I think a community garden would be better, a place for people to reflect
Given they've got a budget of just over £40 million for the new Portobello High School (http://portobellohighschool.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Portobello-Park-Private-Bill-14-March-2014.pdf) I don't see why they couldn't do it. Speculate to accumulate and all that :greengrin

[Hibee87]

I think a building company certainly a UK wide one indifferent to what some in Edinburgh would think. A property developer may buy and sit on as they did in the 70s.

Remember Lithuanian central bank has about £300 million hole to fill. Real debt of HMFC to Ukio Bankas likely to be in region of £40 million plus if take into account write-downs and debt for equity swaps. I remember it being quoted as £35 million at one point in official accounts.

Money required to buy Hears and stadium is circa £10 million. Nobody could do that outside administration/liquidation as they would have to take debts as well. And nobody or any consortium has anywhere that amount of money.

I think we will end up see Hearts going into administration and then liquation. HMRC who are outside UB debt will want some of their money back.


Ground will be sold and fans consortium could by the club at £1-2 million and re-appply to enter SFL and rent Meadowbank. That is their best scenario!


Totally off topic to you post, but you sound as though you live/work in lithuania am I correct?

What I would like to know is have you had/know of any dealings with the liquidators of Ukio and are they a forgiving type? Reason I ask is according to todays EEN hearts are desperatly trying negotiate with the administrators of Ukio to allow them to service the debt as the yare doing and not call in the 15 mill they owe until 2 years time. What is the likely hood of this actually happenig? I would assume that would say bolt to hearts and that they want as much money as quickly as they can and then wash their hands of all things hearts :confused:

[NW]

[/B][/I]

Far better watching them getting battered to death rather than one knockout killer blow!!

what battering are they getting??? Nothing really

[WestEndHibee]

what battering are they getting??? Nothing really

Patience man, Patience.

[NW]

Patience man, Patience.

I prefer reality. I think too many have let emotions take in the way of reality.

Many people have been patient re this for many years.

[Caversham Green]

FAO: Caversham and CWG :thumbsup: ( two guys by the way who have done a great job )


What do you think will be the ultimate outcome in this Yam farce

Also does this mean that Ukio Bankas will now not be opening their fandabbydozy flagship branch in Castle St now :greengrin

There are so many factors involved that it's difficult to predict an outcome. We're concentrating on the current news of Ukio's problems just now, but there's also the problem of UBIG's assets being frozen (so they can't get a new owner) and Companies House chasing them for audited accounts - if they haven't already started a criminal prosecution process they will soon. If they somehow escape all that they're left with a massively diminished playing squad, no money (they're using next season's money now) and a ground that would shame a midden. If they enter administration I can't see a realistic exit for them and liquidation looms and we'll see maroonsevco appearing.

Other than that they need a miracle.

[Green Blood]

what battering are they getting??? Nothing really

Aye, patience man its coming! This is a bit like sex, foreplay just started with a wee feel o her titties, best yet to come!!

[Springbank]

The bit in bold is the interesting part of all of this, anyone know if they have had to do something akin to this to a football team in Lithuania?

I think if you look up Portsmouth Fc administration on google you get a good insight. Some similarities..dodgy money, dodgy people, dodgy practices, tainted trophy win, lithuanian bank goes pop, football club suffers long term decline ....

[DC_Hibs]

That would be the tenants responsibility. Owner would rent premises as seen, the upkeep etc Hearts problem. What alternative do they have?

Not in the commercial property business I've been involved in (real world).

[Caversham Green]

Is there anything to stop Hearts going into Admin, agreeing a deal with HMRC and continuing on. If they can get someone to do a deal with Liths for stadium what is the point of the liths persuing the debt?

If they go into administration there's nothing available for the ordinary creditors so they couldn't agree a deal with HMRC (who have a policy of opposing CVAs in any case). Administration would have done them good a year or two ago but it looks extremely dangerous for them now. In any case, as I said in my last post, the Ukio situation is only one of their many problems.

[NW]

Not in the commercial property business I've been involved in (real world).

I think if you approached Hearts and said, I will buy your stadium and rent it back to you at £500,000 per year but its your responsibility to ensure it keeps up with legal requirements, I think they would bite you hand off.


If they go into administration there's nothing available for the ordinary creditors so they couldn't agree a deal with HMRC (who have a policy of opposing CVAs in any case). Administration would have done them good a year or two ago but it looks extremely dangerous for them now. In any case, as I said in my last post, the Ukio situation is only one of their many problems.

okey dokey. thanks.

[Caversham Green]

I think if you approached Hearts and said, I will buy your stadium and rent it back to you at £500,000 per year but its your responsibility to ensure it keeps up with legal requirements, I think they would bite you hand off.

Hearts can't sell their stadium until they settle their debt to Ukio, which we're told is £15m. You'd be a fool to pay that for a half-mill annual return.

[Danderhall Hibs]

2 things I’d like to see:
Facebook being deleted
“x” at the end of a text being made illegal (unless a bird is texting in a flirtatious manner)

I reckon we could get these things through Parliament quicker than it’s going to take for Hearts to go pop?

[Sergio sledge]

So it is only value is really current use. TBH its a good investment opportunity for someone.

Offer say £2.5 m for Stadium, charge Hearts £0.5 m per year rent on a taken as seen basis. After 7 years its a profitable machine.
It's a long read, but I'd recommend that you look at the report that was produced for HoMFC and the council here: http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/downloads/file/6125/report_on_stadium_options_for_heart_of_midlothan_f ootball_club

A couple of points from this which limit the potential for a cheap purchase and rent back to HoMFC:

Annual maintenance of the stadium in excess of £1m.
Annual dispensation given by UEFA to continue using a non-compliant stadium.

Any purchaser of the stadium would have to take into account (increasing) annual maintenance costs, already in excess of £1m, before working out what to charge HoMFC in rent. Rent would have to be at least £1.5m

You are working on the assumption that a property developer would not be able to use the land, but the report produced for HoMFC and the council states:

"Under this site specific risk assessment of the ethanol storage, the majority of the site falls out with the consultation zones arising from a major event in the ethanol storage tanks. Our assessment concludes that the effects of a major accident hazard in the ethanol storage tanks to be acceptable and should not therefore place a restriction on any re-development of the majority of the site. It is recommended that the club officials discuss the findings of this report with the local planning authority."

Basically, whilst the exclusion zone covers most of Tynecastle at present, this is based on the zone being taken from the edge of the distillery site, and not the specific risk within the distillery site (the ethanol tanks) if the zone is taken from the risk within the distillery site, then the majority of Tynecastle is out with the exclusion zone and could be redeveloped for any use. This could be used by a developer to support any development they wanted. At the time of this report, HoMFC themselves stated that the site would be worth around £8m-£10m on the open market, so I would imagine the administrator of UKIO will be looking to fully satisfy the £6.8m security they have over the ground. The FOH or whoever wishes to bid will have to come up with at least that much to get the club.

[Green Blood]

Phase 1 of HMFC's recovery plan implemented today!


http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/tt80/russkay/images-9_zps8daaf8be.jpg (http://s599.photobucket.com/user/russkay/media/images-9_zps8daaf8be.jpg.html)

[Gus Fring]

As it stands just now the media and Yam apologists are under the impression that Hearts will be quite far down the line for the lith administrator therefore buying them time, which may very well be true.

I would assume however that UBIG will be dealt with much quicker and I think that's going to be the key to all of this. As I've said before, it's like a set of dominos but once UBIG goes, Hearts are even more buggered than they are now (and they're already seriously buggered)

Correct me if I'm wrong?

[greenlex]

Seems a bit extreme having a front page splash and getting STV to turn up at Tynie if there is nothing going on :confused:

Still think they will squirm through till the end of the season - hopefully not though :greengrin


They aren't the big team. They are the UBIG team.


2 things I’d like to see:
Facebook being deleted
“x” at the end of a text being made illegal (unless a bird is texting in a flirtatious manner)

I reckon we could get these things through Parliament quicker than it’s going to take for Hearts to go pop?
I'd also like to see the following phrases be deemed unlawful and punishable.
6am in the morning and 10pm at night. FFS the am and pm are there for a reason!!!!!!
Ps the times could be anything Ive just used them as an example.
Punishment of death should suffice

[cocopops1875]

ok. Who pays for it?

Who pays for anything ? The current stadium is barely fit for purpose.

[Beefster]

2 things I’d like to see:
Facebook being deleted
“x” at the end of a text being made illegal (unless a bird is texting in a flirtatious manner)

I reckon we could get these things through Parliament quicker than it’s going to take for Hearts to go pop?

I'm with you. The last time I didn't put an 'x' on the end of one of Mrs Beefster's text messages, I got a "what's wrong with your moany pus" in response. Ridiculous.

[Hibee87]

It's a long read, but I'd recommend that you look at the report that was produced for HoMFC and the council here: http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/downloads/file/6125/report_on_stadium_options_for_heart_of_midlothan_f ootball_club

A couple of points from this which limit the potential for a cheap purchase and rent back to HoMFC:

Annual maintenance of the stadium in excess of £1m.
Annual dispensation given by UEFA to continue using a non-compliant stadium.

Any purchaser of the stadium would have to take into account (increasing) annual maintenance costs, already in excess of £1m, before working out what to charge HoMFC in rent. Rent would have to be at least £1.5m

You are working on the assumption that a property developer would not be able to use the land, but the report produced for HoMFC and the council states:

"Under this site specific risk assessment of the ethanol storage, the majority of the site falls out with the consultation zones arising from a major event in the ethanol storage tanks. Our assessment concludes that the effects of a major accident hazard in the ethanol storage tanks to be acceptable and should not therefore place a restriction on any re-development of the majority of the site. It is recommended that the club officials discuss the findings of this report with the local planning authority."

Basically, whilst the exclusion zone covers most of Tynecastle at present, this is based on the zone being taken from the edge of the distillery site, and not the specific risk within the distillery site (the ethanol tanks) if the zone is taken from the risk within the distillery site, then the majority of Tynecastle is out with the exclusion zone and could be redeveloped for any use. This could be used by a developer to support any development they wanted. At the time of this report, HoMFC themselves stated that the site would be worth around £8m-£10m on the open market, so I would imagine the administrator of UKIO will be looking to fully satisfy the £6.8m security they have over the ground. The FOH or whoever wishes to bid will have to come up with at least that much to get the club.

Good Stuff, I have asked this qestion a number of times and had no answer - how much does it cost to run tynie? 1mill was the figure in my head so must have heard it somewhere.

FOH, if by some miracle obtained the stadium for nothing, lets say they were gven it for arguments sake (we know that would not happen, but lets just pretend) how the **** would they manage to pay tha on top of everything else and have a winning side on the pitch? the answer is .....they canny!! no matter what way I seem to look at things it aint going to be pretty for our jambo chums. not unless some mad man with money to burn comes along and is happy to lose his fortune........

[Danderhall Hibs]

I'm with you. The last time I didn't put an 'x' on the end of one of Mrs Beefster's text messages, I got a "what's wrong with your moany pus" in response. Ridiculous.

Incredible. I don't even put an "x" on the end when I'm begging for a ride.

Edit - maybe that's where I'm going wrong?

[kdhibees1]

Slightly off topic but my mate is a car salesman with Volkswagen on Gorgie Road. They store about 10 to 15 cars in the car park at the main stand at Tynecastle, something they have done for years with the club, they have some sort of agreement. Anyway they got told yesterday to have all the cars moved from the car park as soon as possible. Bit strange considering they have been there for about 4 years.
'Quick, get they cars away from the stadium as the Russian hat kicker brigade are about to cause mayhem, again!!!!!!''

[bingo70]

Incredible. I don't even put an "x" on the end when I'm begging for a ride.

Maybe if you put the occasional x at the end you wouldn't have to beg for a ride.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Maybe if you put the occasional x at the end you wouldn't have to beg for a ride.

Have you been married long?

[HIBERNIAN-0762]

Meanwhile over on the utterly hilarious Scotsman forum 1-5 since 1902 and wee team seem to have solved all they're problems oh and we're in for another humiliation next week...

:hilarious:hilarious:hilarious

[poolman]

Councils education budget


Not a chance

[Danderhall Hibs]

Meanwhile over on the utterly hilarious Scotsman forum 1-5 since 1902 and wee team seem to have solved all they're problems oh and we're in for another humiliation next week...

:hilarious:hilarious:hilarious


TBF the rumours on this thread usually spike a week or so before the derby then we go on not to win it.

[jonty]

Not a chanceIt was a hypothetical. Shooshed :greengrin I think the council would be daft not to investigate to possibility of top class athletics/sports facilities for their future voters, particularly under their 'Ensuring every child in Edinburgh has the best start in life' : http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/info/695/council_information_performance_and_statistics/1314/council_budget/4 :greengrin

[AinsterHibs]

I think if you look up Portsmouth Fc administration on google you get a good insight. Some similarities..dodgy money, dodgy people, dodgy practices, tainted trophy win, lithuanian bank goes pop, football club suffers long term decline ....

Cheers. I shall have a look.

[IWasThere2016]

TBF the rumours on this thread usually spike a week or so before the derby then we go on not to win it.

Sadly so too often! PETRIE! :grr:

[Stevie Reid]

The perils of not owning the stadium you use demonstrated here: -

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/england/22396786

I note that the council are part owners, not that it's helped Coventry.

[Caversham Green]

TBF the rumours on this thread usually spike a week or so before the derby then we go on not to win it.

The difference this time is that they're not rumours....

[Kato]

It's a long read, but I'd recommend that you look at the report that was produced for HoMFC and the council here: http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/downloads/file/6125/report_on_stadium_options_for_heart_of_midlothan_f ootball_club

A couple of points from this which limit the potential for a cheap purchase and rent back to HoMFC:

Annual maintenance of the stadium in excess of £1m.
Annual dispensation given by UEFA to continue using a non-compliant stadium.

Any purchaser of the stadium would have to take into account (increasing) annual maintenance costs, already in excess of £1m, before working out what to charge HoMFC in rent. Rent would have to be at least £1.5m

You are working on the assumption that a property developer would not be able to use the land, but the report produced for HoMFC and the council states:

"Under this site specific risk assessment of the ethanol storage, the majority of the site falls out with the consultation zones arising from a major event in the ethanol storage tanks. Our assessment concludes that the effects of a major accident hazard in the ethanol storage tanks to be acceptable and should not therefore place a restriction on any re-development of the majority of the site. It is recommended that the club officials discuss the findings of this report with the local planning authority."

Basically, whilst the exclusion zone covers most of Tynecastle at present, this is based on the zone being taken from the edge of the distillery site, and not the specific risk within the distillery site (the ethanol tanks) if the zone is taken from the risk within the distillery site, then the majority of Tynecastle is out with the exclusion zone and could be redeveloped for any use. This could be used by a developer to support any development they wanted. At the time of this report, HoMFC themselves stated that the site would be worth around £8m-£10m on the open market, so I would imagine the administrator of UKIO will be looking to fully satisfy the £6.8m security they have over the ground. The FOH or whoever wishes to bid will have to come up with at least that much to get the club.

So their own report, published in cahoots with local officials, blows out of the water the idea that the site "isn't really usable for anything other than football. Their own report also states that it's current use as a football stadium is in question as it's unfit for purpose. It'll cost 1.5Million per season for Hearts to rent the stadium, dependent on someone actually wishing to enter such a deal with them - which is far from certain.

Don't think we'll see Tynie being used as Hearts home for much longer based on that. Finding a buyer won't be as problematic as some are saying/hoping.

On another matter re all this - can I just say I'm enjoying the long drawn out way this is unfolding. Having them hang around in SPL in some kind of crippled form will suit me down to the ground as well. I want some revenge on the park. Having them disappear altogether in a puff of smoke would be pretty unsatisfactory. Although I do understand that scenario could well happen and if it did I wouldn't exactly be tearful unless it was from laughing.

[greenginger]

[QUOTE=Sergio sledge;3586608]It's a long read, but I'd recommend that you look at the report that was produced for HoMFC and the council here: http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/downloads/file/6125/report_on_stadium_options_for_heart_of_midlothan_f ootball_club

A couple of points from this which limit the potential for a cheap purchase and rent back to HoMFc


Is that the Independent report the Council commissioned to be written by a Hearts shareholder and major mouthpiece for the Association of Hearts Shareholders ?

The council still has a clique of Yam lovers.

[lapsedhibee]

I'd also like to see the following phrases be deemed unlawful and punishable.
6am in the morning and 10pm at night. FFS the am and pm are there for a reason!!!!!!
Ps the times could be anything Ive just used them as an example.
Punishment of death should suffice

You'll not be a big fan of Mike Oldfield (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjCre83iPjE) then?

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

2 things I’d like to see:
Facebook being deleted
“x” at the end of a text being made illegal (unless a bird is texting in a flirtatious manner)

I reckon we could get these things through Parliament quicker than it’s going to take for Hearts to go pop?

I questioned the nefarious practice of guys posting kisses to each other on FB etc on another thread earlier this week without receiving an acceptable explanation, its certainly an odd fad! :rolleyes:

[Thecat23]

I questioned the nefarious practice of guys posting kisses to each other on FB etc on another thread earlier this week without receiving an acceptable explanation, its certainly an odd fad! :rolleyes:

FB is the social networking version of Jeremy Kyle. Full of clowns posting crap about, "Like" if you don't **** dogs! It's absolutely horrific and full of sick videos. Twitter is far better and you don't get anything like these videos. Well I don't anyway!

[bingo70]

FB is the social networking version of Jeremy Kyle. Full of clowns posting crap about, "Like" if you don't **** dogs! It's absolutely horrific and full of sick videos. Twitter is far better and you don't get anything like these videos. Well I don't anyway!

FB is far better for a perv though :agree:

[KeithTheHibby]

Totally off topic to you post, but you sound as though you live/work in lithuania am I correct?

What I would like to know is have you had/know of any dealings with the liquidators of Ukio and are they a forgiving type? Reason I ask is according to todays EEN hearts are desperatly trying negotiate with the administrators of Ukio to allow them to service the debt as the yare doing and not call in the 15 mill they owe until 2 years time. What is the likely hood of this actually happenig? I would assume that would say bolt to hearts and that they want as much money as quickly as they can and then wash their hands of all things hearts :confused:


Where do Hearts get 15m to pay in 2 years time? Answer is they don't, they simply refinance the existing deal. Are UBIG likely to do that? No, especially if the can realise the value of Tynie and cut all losses which I suspect is the administrators job.

[Thecat23]

FB is far better for a perv though :agree:

Haha, can't argue with that!

[Geo_1875]

Where do Hearts get 15m to pay in 2 years time? Answer is they don't, they simply refinance the existing deal. Are UBIG likely to do that? No, especially if the can realise the value of Tynie and cut all losses which I suspect is the administrators job.

The thing is the guy might be called an administrator but he is actually a liquidator. His job will be to get the best return for creditors of Ukio. He won't take a long-term view and UBIG, through Ukio, are not in a position to refinance any borrowing by HoMFC and no other lender will entertain them. I think once the Liquidator calls in UBIG's debt they are ****ed and so are HoMFC.

[Aldo]

FB is far better for a perv though :agree:

There's always one (sometimes 2 or 3) ;-)

[Geo_1875]

Just noticed the story in EEN about McGowan signing a contract extension. WTF goes through these peoples heads?

[truehibernian]

Just noticed the story in EEN about McGowan signing a contract extension. WTF goes through these peoples heads?

Have you seen him play though ? As Hibs fans that should be taken as great news :aok:- the lad is honking and the reason he's signed is no doubt because his agent realises he would only end up in the lower echelons of the Rymans League - he's a very very poor footballer and I'm surprised (but glad) they are keeping him on. They have, admittedly, got some promising young players, he however is not one of them.

[s.a.m]

Just noticed the story in EEN about McGowan signing a contract extension. WTF goes through these peoples heads?

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTh8yHtaIomQAD6DCoreR-c1F2jNAy2H6PBC2gMoDtd6aZ70iikbg

and

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRA10c6koR633vFeadBNEiGbx72So5-7EaMfoH3OW_NTXV38UwC

[Aldo]

15 million payment plan my arse. Never mentioned until recently. They are paying nowt.
#scrapingthebottomofthebarrel
#stallinglikemade

[Hibby Gav]

Just noticed the story in EEN about McGowan signing a contract extension. WTF goes through these peoples heads?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0Y1KAHVWhU

[green glory]

and



Anyone who willingly stays at the Saviledome next season needs their heads looked at.

As for the fans, the board is handing out these for anyone daft enough to fork out for a season ticket. They're hardly going to refuse an offer like that:



9751

[Velma Dinkley]

Can't the jammies just sell their stadium to the highest bidder, pay off a big chunk of debt and start renting Meadowbank? Or is it too late for that? Or is it not possible for some other reason? Or does nobody care anymore?

[poolman]

It was a hypothetical. Shooshed :greengrin I think the council would be daft not to investigate to possibility of top class athletics/sports facilities for their future voters, particularly under their 'Ensuring every child in Edinburgh has the best start in life' : http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/info/695/council_information_performance_and_statistics/1314/council_budget/4 :greengrin


:greengrin I'd definitely have something to say

Not had a ****in pay rise in four years :rolleyes:

[Big_Franck]

Have you seen him play though ? As Hibs fans that should be taken as great news :aok:- the lad is honking and the reason he's signed is no doubt because his agent realises he would only end up in the lower echelons of the Rymans League - he's a very very poor footballer and I'm surprised (but glad) they are keeping him on. They have, admittedly, got some promising young players, he however is not one of them.


Aye, delighted with this news. He's murder and quite happy that they will be replacing Zaliukas and maybe also Webster with boys like this.

[Glesgahibby]

As it stands just now the media and Yam apologists are under the impression that Hearts will be quite far down the line for the lith administrator therefore buying them time, which may very well be true.

I would assume however that UBIG will be dealt with much quicker and I think that's going to be the key to all of this. As I've said before, it's like a set of dominos but once UBIG goes, Hearts are even more buggered than they are now (and they're already seriously buggered)

Correct me if I'm wrong?
:agree::agree::agree:
This is spot on:top marks
I don't understand why this has never
been discussed/printed by the media:confused:
they owe it to themselves(remember)

[Treadstone]

The thing is the guy might be called an administrator but he is actually a liquidator. His job will be to get the best return for creditors of Ukio. He won't take a long-term view and UBIG, through Ukio, are not in a position to refinance any borrowing by HoMFC and no other lender will entertain them. I think once the Liquidator calls in UBIG's debt they are ****ed and so are HoMFC.

Are you sure about this it could affect their EU presidency.

I hear there is to be a meeting of the G9 nations to discuss this fully.:aok:

[God Petrie]

Obama has been called away from a crucial meeting regarding Guantanamo Bay to discuss Hearts' financial plight and the political ramifications with his chiefs of staff.

[Eyrie]

Obama has been called away from a crucial meeting regarding Guantanamo Bay to discuss Hearts' financial plight and the political ramifications with his chiefs of staff.
The two are linked - Obama knows that Guantanamo Bay has to be closed, so he's looking for an alternative location. However the classified CIA report has already ruled out the PBS on humanitarian grounds.

[green day]

The two are linked - Obama knows that Guantanamo Bay has to be closed, so he's looking for an alternative location. However the classified CIA report has already ruled out the PBS on humanitarian grounds.

Talking of politicians, the Ian Murray MP story in the EEN is hilarious. Barry Anderson reckons that the administrators might accept £2Million to buy the debt - thereby leaving the fans owning an entirely debt free club.

£2M? Aye right - it sounds a great wheeze, and one which I am sure will be accepted with ease by these Lithuanian dummies, none of whom will have as many financial qualifications as our Barry of course.

None of us knows what will happen - but I really cant see any professional administrator letting it all go for buttons - and even if they do, the ongoing HMRC / stadium bills should ensure that they cant really outspend us for the foreseeable.

happy days indeed

[Phil D. Rolls]

Just wondering. Have the Huns tried to use this as evidence that Scottish Football faced armageddon without them yet?

[Moon unit]

Talking of politicians, the Ian Murray MP story in the EEN is hilarious. Barry Anderson reckons that the administrators might accept £2Million to buy the debt - thereby leaving the fans owning an entirely debt free club.

£2M? Aye right - it sounds a great wheeze, and one which I am sure will be accepted with ease by these Lithuanian dummies, none of whom will have as many financial qualifications as our Barry of course.

None of us knows what will happen - but I really cant see any professional administrator letting it all go for buttons - and even if they do, the ongoing HMRC / stadium bills should ensure that they cant really outspend us for the foreseeable.

happy days indeed

Should Mr Ian Murray M.P be getting on with M Peeie' business rather that fannying about hopelessly trying to save the Yams ???...

[Springbank]

As a bit of a yes Scotland man, I do look at the remarkable amount of time this Scottish Westminster mp has to basically play at being the next BBC Apprentice over in eh11.

Not exactly overworked, are they?

[Caversham Green]

Talking of politicians, the Ian Murray MP story in the EEN is hilarious. Barry Anderson reckons that the administrators might accept £2Million to buy the debt - thereby leaving the fans owning an entirely debt free club.

£2M? Aye right - it sounds a great wheeze, and one which I am sure will be accepted with ease by these Lithuanian dummies, none of whom will have as many financial qualifications as our Barry of course.

None of us knows what will happen - but I really cant see any professional administrator letting it all go for buttons - and even if they do, the ongoing HMRC / stadium bills should ensure that they cant really outspend us for the foreseeable.

happy days indeed

For as long a HoMFC stay out of administration they are declaring themselves to be a going concern - i.e. able to meet their debts as they fall due. While The Ukio liquidator might offer a discount for early settlement he would be failing in his basic duties if he accepted £2m for a £15m debt from a going concern. They would have to enter administration and admit insolvency for him to accept a significantly lower offer.

Incidentally, this debt was not in place when the share offer document was published, so how have they managed to rack up £15m worth of debt since last October if they're really self-sufficient?

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

The two are linked - Obama knows that Guantanamo Bay has to be closed, so he's looking for an alternative location. However the classified CIA report has already ruled out the PBS on humanitarian grounds.

Its amazing to see how many votes UKIP received during the local elections down south, surely Nigel Farage must have pledged that his party would do all they could to save Hearts from financial armageddon by sending those pesky Lithuanians home which resulted in multitudes of the 400,000 turning out down south to support his party.

[The Falcon]

They need a fans/consortium buy out or a white knight - Tom Farmer type to save them. There will be someone with the money who did not want to deal with romanov but who knows that if he waits to the last second he would be able to get them for a song. In the long run buying Hibs cost Tom Farmer nothing and did his reputation and business no harm at all, plus it earned him a considerable amount of good will from one half of the city at least.


On the contrary, it has cost STF a fair few quid to maintain his involvement with Hibs. The significant difference between him and the likes of David Murray or Vladimir Romanov is that the money he has spent, albeit reluctantly, has actually been his in the first place.

[jdships]

On the contrary, it has cost STF a fair few quid to maintain his involvement with Hibs. The significant difference between him and the likes of David Murray or Vladimir Romanov is that the money he has spent, albeit reluctantly, has actually been his in the first place.

Absolutely correct !!
STF put up his own money to initially secure Hibs future .
Companies were then formed to take the club forward on a business like basis.
I doubt if we will ever know how much of his own money STF put into HFC

[Bostonhibby]

As a bit of a yes Scotland man, I do look at the remarkable amount of time this Scottish Westminster mp has to basically play at being the next BBC Apprentice over in eh11.

Not exactly overworked, are they?

B list politician finds something to do which might, just might raise his profile a bit with some of the thickoes he is meant to represent so long as he can keep the issue and himself in the limelight.

Much easier than quietly and effectively serving the interests of everyone you have been elected to represent. Anyone know where he stands on the trams and what he's been saying and doing about it? much more relevant to and potentially expensive than what is at best a minority issue flowing from an overseas based company with a cocked up subsidiary.............

You get what you vote for.

[Treadstone]

Talking of politicians, the Ian Murray MP story in the EEN is hilarious. Barry Anderson reckons that the administrators might accept £2Million to buy the debt - thereby leaving the fans owning an entirely debt free club.

£2M? Aye right - it sounds a great wheeze, and one which I am sure will be accepted with ease by these Lithuanian dummies, none of whom will have as many financial qualifications as our Barry of course.

None of us knows what will happen - but I really cant see any professional administrator letting it all go for buttons - and even if they do, the ongoing HMRC / stadium bills should ensure that they cant really outspend us for the foreseeable.

happy days indeed

Opinion pieces by Barry and Mark Donaldson have been concocted in fantasy land with no basis in reality. All solutions seem to have them shedding their debt with little impact because of political ramifications (aye right!). How editors let these views be exposed is mind boggling. Standards have dropped alarmingly.

[Kato]

How editors let these views be exposed is mind boggling. Standards have dropped alarmingly.

This is how that works.....

#allisbarry #wecanworkitout #nothingtoseehere

That line is being taken as a sop to local creditors. The last they want is someone in Edinburgh taking a lead to claim monies due in court and fogging up their cash flow. Send out a line to them that #allisbarry otherwise there will a rush amongst the "little people" to claim what is due them, panic headlines would see it happen. Look at the list of small creditors conned by Rangers (r.i.p.) whilst they were putting out a line that #allisbarry. Hearts' will be smaller but similar.

A K Ray, Ross Hall Hospital, Glasgow "£"£150
ADI UK, Preston "£7620
AS St Etienne, France "£252,212.39
ASL, East Sussex "£2514
Acies Group, Edinburgh "£2340
Adrian Coll, Balloch "£1600
Alan Duncan, Glasgow "£1400
Alexander West Property, Glasgow "£2807
Alison Walker TV, Bearsden "£600
Alliance Video, Surrey "£204
Aon Limited, London "£14,151
Arena Imaging, Derby "£336
Argyll and Bute Council "£406.80
Arsenal Football Club "£136,560
Astra Hygiene Supplies, Dumbarton "£61.27
Audi Stirling "£396.05
Azure Support Services, Macclesfield "£523,949.71
Azzurri Scotland, Burnley "£34.63
BTWShiells, Belfast "£2917.39
Barr Environmental Limited, Cummnock "£264
Base Soccer Agency, London "£52,560
Bauer Radio Ltd (Radio Clyde) "£702
Beyard Services, Beith "£5559.60
Bhutta’s Newsagents, Glasgow "£567.45
Big Think Agency, Glasgow "£14,265.60
Blooms UK Limited, Glasgow "£70
Brabners, Manchester "£12,999
Brentwood Estates, Manchester "£42,963.06
Brian Proudfoot, Glasgow "£2,802
British Gas "£1,562.42
BT "£1,292.13
Business Cost Consultants, Glasgow "£6,240.60
Business Stream, Edinburgh "£9,727.22
CNP Professional, Cheshire "£719.96
CRE8, Gloucester "£68,406.70
Cairn Financial, London "£4,127.60
Cairns & Scott Caterhire, Glasgow "£762
Cameron Presentations, Glasgow "£8,795.99
Campbell Medical Supplies, Paisley "£3,386.73
Camtec, Herts "£552
Canniesburn Taxis, Bearsden "£269.69
Capital Solutions, Edinburgh "£11,423.40
Capito Ltd, Livingston "£1,049.69
Carberry’s Coaches, Portadown Co Armagh "£1,200
Carnival Chaos Production, Edinburgh "£672
Carol Govan, Glasgow "£600
Cask Productions, Glasgow "£1,980
Cask Sports, Glasgow "£2,919.60
Catercare Scotland, Stewarton "£420
Charlton Chauffeur Drive, Glasgow "£792
Chelsea FC "£238,345.43
Childcare Vouchers, London "£1,143.74
Chilli It, Chester "£416.52
Chris Clarke, Kilmarnock "£150
Christine Siebelt, Milngavie "£1,100
Citrus Office Solutions, Lancashire "£4,304.24
City Electrical Factors, Glasgow "£215.40
Clyde Productions, Glasgow "£180
Coca Cola "£10,133.91
Colin Suggett, Sunderland "£741.80
Collstream Limited, Derby "£5,779.37
Collyer Bristow, London "£40,691.22
Colours Agency Glasgow "£1,980
Computer Links, Livingston "£2,146.32
Computershare Investor Service, Bristol, "£23,855.03
Craig Services & Access East Sussex "£900
Culture & Sport Glasgow "£10,338.96
Daily Record & Sunday Mail "£312
DealBureau Commercial Finance, Southend "£10,000
Decco Limited, Glasgow "£174.72
Dell Computer Corporation, Berkshire "£272.85
Direct Medical Imaging, Lancashire "£230
Disclosure Scotland "£372
Dominique S Byrne, Nuffield Hospital, Glasgow "£160
Dr David A S Marshall, Bridge of Weir "£160
Dundas & Wilson, Edinburgh "£24,027.84
E.ON "£8,827.14
Eagle Consulting, Inverness "£40
Eagle Couriers, Bathgate "£96.60
Eden Springs, Blantyre "£644.64
Edinburgh Audi "£5,197.08
Electrical Was te Recycling, County
Durham "£18
Enterprise Rent-a-Car, Stirling "£9,000
Events Audio Visual, Clydebank "£300
Exchequer Corporate Finance , Surrey "£4,000
Executive Hire, Harlow "£1,060
FES FM, Stirling "£80,874.93
FL Memo, London "£116.86
FX Signs, Glasgow "£15,546.56
G Media Mangement, Cheltenham "£995
G4S, Surrey "£295,036.24
GTG Training, Glasgow "£396
Gareth Neil Design, Glasgow "£3,200
Gerry McGeoch, Glasgow "£150
Glasgow Audi "£1,041.62
Glasgow City Council "£5,000
Glasgow City Council (Council Tax) "£2,008.21
Glasgow Leading Attractions (The Willow Tea Rooms) "£1,525
Glasgow Taxis "£TBC
Glencairn Crystal Studio, East Kilbide "£354
Gordon McKay, Blackridge "£150
HOBS Reprographics, Glasgow "£270.15
HSS Hire Service "£67.10
Hamilton Brothers, Bishopton "£115.56
Hay McKerron Associates, Milngavie "£3,600
Hepscott Water Systems, Morpeth "£1,190.28
Hrvoje Bojanic Beethoveova, Zagreb, Croatia "£2,898.42
Hutchesons Eductational Trust, Glasgow "£550
ILC Media, Preston "£2,040
IMG Media, Chiswick "£180
Impact Signs, Cumbernauld "£9,482.79
Integrated Cleaning Management, Hampshire "£3,329.19
Iris Chorus Application Software, Devon "£5,973.60
Iris Ticketing, Devon "£37,210.42
Iron Mountain, Livingston "£1,271.16
JCM Business Consulting, Paisley "£2,745
JJB Sports "£19,390.59
James Gordon (Engineers), Galston "£1,437.68
Jewson, Glasgow "£930.60
Joe Lennon Picture Framing, Bearsden "£840
John Deere, Gloucester "£41,191.59
K7X, Ayr, "£240
Kalamazoo Secure Solutions, Birmingham "£4,017
Keith Hawley, Glasgow "£2,600
Kevin Cameron Radio Service, Paisley "£600
Kube Networks, Glasgow "£7,672.08
L & S Litho, Glasgow "£17,035.04
Lothian Power Clean, Larkhall "£194.34
LSK Supplies, Glasgow "£178.58
Lawrie Furnishings, Paisley "£607.20
Limelight Networks , Arizona "£2,333.49
Link Seating Limited, Worcestershire "£606.98
Loomis UK, Nottingham "£2,248.08
Louis Grace Electrical, Glasgow "£1,087.84
Lyco Direct Limited , Milton Keynes "£2,381.27
MSM Solicitors, Paisley "£420
MacGregor Industrial Supplies, Inverness "£106.76
Mackinnon Partners, Gourock "£200
Manchester City FC "£328,248.71
Manea Florin Bucharest "£37,500
Mar Hall, Bishopton "£5,511.90
Marsh Ltd UK, Norwich "£779.10
Martin Dawes, Warrington "£654.74
Media House, Glasgow "£19,200
MediaCom, Edinburgh "£11,544.42
Menzies Hotels, Derbyshire "£257.40
Michael Douglas, Glasgow "£100
Milngavie Mini Market "£413.29
Modular Property Holdings, Glasgow "£20,930.22
Motif Promotional Clothing, Glasgow "£27.29
Murray Group Holdings, Edinburgh "£278,964.30
Nairn Brown (Glasgow) "£1,492.50
National Car Rental, Leicester "£162.52
Navyblue Design Group, Edinburgh "£6,960
Newline Products, Glasgow "£7,001
Newsquest (Herald & Times "£1,500
Nexo S.A., France "£1,799.37
Nicola Young, Glasgow "£3,500
Noble Grossart, Edinburgh "£18,612
Nordic Scouting, Oslo "£20,000
North Glasgow College "£11,041.80
OHSS, Edinburgh "£234
OfficeFurnitureOnline.co.uk, Dumfires "£338.40
Ooyala, California "£733.92
Opal Telecom "£169.72
Orebro SK "£150,000
Oxford Hotels & Inns (Carnoustie) "£3,709.96
PR Newswire Europe "£300
PTS - Plumbing Trade Supplies, Leicester "£30.42
Paramed, Howwood "£1,050
Parklands Country Club, Glasgow "£500
Parks of Hamilton "£7,256
Paton Plant, York "£1,450.16
Perform Group, Middlesex "£346,097.43
Pineapple Aroundshot, Co Durham "£2,316.96
Pineapple Photographic, Co Durham "£5,875
Ping Network Solutions, Glasgow "£4,020.25
Plum Films, Edinburgh "£3,000
Posh Deli, Glasgow "£260
Postage by Phone, Essex "£510.80
Premier Cash Registers, Glasgow "£12,600
Prime Commercial Properties
Management, London "£10,805.53
Professional Pre-Season Tours (Libero), Glasgow "£60,000
Quick Shift Tyre Service, Glasgow "£48
R.F.Brown, Hamilton "£1,681.44
RBS WorldPay, Cambridge "£180.66
RS Components Limited, Northants "£204.95
Rangers Lotteries Ltd, Glasgow "£105.80
Reed Business Information, Surrey "£2,764.80
Renfrewshire Council HQ "£108
Restore Scotland, Paisley "£579.74
Rigby Taylor Limited, Bolton "£10,762.16
Rodgers Sercurity Systems, Glasgow "£342.50
Ross Hall Hospital, Glasgow "£770.50
Ross Promotional, Glasgow "£1,022.88
Royal Mail "£3,262.54
SDL Group, Glasgow "£1,350
SG World, Cheshire "£577.56
SIR Teknologi, West Sussex "£TBC
SK Rapid, Austria "£1,011,763.44
STRI, West Yorkshire "£17.28
Saffery Champness, Glasgow "£31,028.01
Scot-West Business Forms, Glasgow "£749.60
Scotprint, Haddington "£7,514
Scotrae Productions, Greenock "£17,058.94
Scottish Ambulance Service "£8,438.40
Scottish Hydro Electric "£62,527.30
Scottish Power "£302.44
Search Promotional Merchandise, Buckinghamshire "£6,240
Shanks Waste Management, Southampton "£122.58
Sharon Agnew, Glasgow "£460
Shawfield Timber, Glasgow, "£786.24
Shell UK "£7,637.94
Shields Land Rover, Glasgow "£246.75
Shred-it Glasgow "£444
Sign Plus, Dunfermline "£2,473.22
Signature Industries, London "£1,507.90
Simplewaste Solutions, Clydebank "£17,626.26
Sinclair Pharmacy, Glasgow "£1,909.79
Slater Menswear , Glasgow "£688.31
Solutions.tv, Glasgow "£2,652
Sound Acoustic Productions, Glasgow "£12,000
Souters Irrigation Services, Cumbernauld "£456
Spike Multiedia, Giffnock "£5,312.50
Sporting iD, Tyne and Wear "£144.70
Sportopps.com, Belfast "£150
Sports Alliance, Bury "£2,006.65
Sports Revolution, London "£5,034.52
Stellar Football, London "£72,000
Stirling Fire Protection "£1,149.30
Stockline Plastics, Glasgow "£258
Strathclyde Police "£51,882
Striking Imagery, Cumbernauld "£113.51
Stuart MacMorran, Clydebank "£422.50
Summit Asset Management, Surrey "£70,555.88
Susan Thomson Your Sonsie Face, Glasgow "£40
TNT "£1,255.39
Tabs FM, London, "£1,980
Tellcomm Limited, West Midlands "£6,435.89
The Arco Group, Hull "£443.43
The Brite Bulb, Bishopbriggs "£3,209.64
The Burnbrae, Bearsden "£1,403.88
The Business & Property Bureau, Bearsden "£7,376
The Business Incentives Group, Glasgow "£1,893.60
The City of Edinburgh Council "£908.672...

stopped there cos it's to big to post

[proud_and_green]

[/B][/I]

Far better watching them getting battered to death rather than one knockout killer blow!!

exactly, a boxing match with a knock out punch in the first round is a real disappointment. Let this go the full distance and it be decided on points after a vicious and bloody battle leaving them alive but unfit to do much more than just mumble on about how they used to be a contender!

[Saorsa]

exactly, a boxing match with a knock out punch in the first round is a real disappointment. Let this go the full distance and it be decided on points after a vicious and bloody battle leaving them alive but unfit to do much more than just mumble on about how they used to be a contender!Sorry, cannae agree, a killer blow now is what's required so the dinnae have any time tae find a way out of it just in case there may be one. I doubt there is one but I dinnae want them tae have the chance tae find it if there is.

[MSK]

Ju


C mGo on ...just say it ..:greengrin

[greenginger]

Sorry, cannae agree, a killer blow now is what's required so the dinnae have any time tae find a way out of it just in case there may be one. I doubt there is one but I dinnae want them tae have the chance tae find it if there is.

A way out for the Yams ?

If, as was reported by the BBC, the Yams have paid the first £ 500,000 of the £ 1.5 million due to HMRC for their player loan scam, and they are up to date with other Tax, Vat, and NI bills. Do they think they might have a chance of Hector going long with a CVA proposal once Hearts are in administration.

Our Council won't vote against it, thats a certainty !

[The_Sauz]

exactly, a boxing match with a knock out punch in the first round is a real disappointment. Let this go the full distance and it be decided on points after a vicious and bloody battle leaving them alive but unfit to do much more than just mumble on about how they used to be a contender!

Sorry, but I vote with oor Margo......................euthanasia :greengrin

[Hibernia Na Eir]

find it utterly incredible that Dylan the monkey can afford to extend his contract given their imminent demise. WTF is he thinking? Fool.

[Billy Whizz]

find it utterly incredible that Dylan the monkey can afford to extend his contract given their imminent demise. WTF is he thinking? Fool.

He didn't, Hearts triggered an extension due to his terms and conditions on his current deal. They need to sign low cost players like him, as no sensible player will sign for them

[Danderhall Hibs]

find it utterly incredible that Dylan the monkey can afford to extend his contract given their imminent demise. WTF is he thinking? Fool.

Depending on the options he had he's nothing to lose.

[One Day Soon]

They are Adam Ant that they won't be going into administration.

Can any of our more tax/revenue/spend/compliance savvy contributors enlighten us as to how much working capital they need to have available and what for in order to be able to juggle things?

If the group in the wings were collectively sitting on a sum between £5 and £6 million how would that affect their options?

[Gus Fring]

They are Adam Ant that they won't be going into administration.

Can any of our more tax/revenue/spend/compliance savvy contributors enlighten us as to how much working capital they need to have available and what for in order to be able to juggle things?

If the group in the wings were collectively sitting on a sum between £5 and £6 million how would that affect their options?

It wouldn't as UBIG's assets are still frozen so the shares can't be transferred to anyone. Hearts are forced to continue with the #StatusQuo at the moment. I've mentioned earlier in the thread, whilst it's highly likely Hearts will go pop, it's even more likely UBIG will go pop sooner.

[Keith_M]

Well, I'm with Murray the MP, AllIsBarry and Rolland (the scotsman commenter) Rat on this one. Serious political pressure WILL be brought to bear to ensure the survival of Hearts.

What you lot don't seem to appreciate is that the security of Europe, nay the World, depends on a stong Hearts. Over here in Germany, they are secretly re-arming, in the knowledge that the only organisation that stopped them winning the LAST two world wars may soon be defunct.

They know, as I'm sure everyone else does, that without hearts to save us once again, the Germans WILL be victorious this time.


You have been warned!!!

[mayo hibee]

I see Hearts reporting of their financial results has been hidden away on their website on a Saturday morning with so much spin that I'm dizzy.

Debts of around £25 million (a year ago) being embraced by the masses as 'great news' on their twitter feed...

[Part/Time Supporter]

I see Hearts reporting of their financial results has been hidden away on their website on a Saturday morning with so much spin that I'm dizzy.

https://twitter.com/pieandbov/status/330627499144933376


Hearts report "improved" financial results for 2011-2012, losing £1.65m in the period and with net debt position standing at £24.7m

Lost £1.65M in a year with a cup win, a European tie against Spurs and selling Lee Wallace for £1.5M.

[Aldo]

Sorry, cannae agree, a killer blow now is what's required so the dinnae have any time tae find a way out of it just in case there may be one. I doubt there is one but I dinnae want them tae have the chance tae find it if there is.

This

[degenerated]

I see Hearts reporting of their financial results has been hidden away on their website on a Saturday morning with so much spin that I'm dizzy.

Debts of around £25 million (a year ago) being embraced by the masses as 'great news' on their twitter feed...

Aye right, I'll eat a hat if that's all their hawk for. Their financial reports are about as believable as their attendance figures.

[Ray_]

Aye right, I'll eat a hat if that's all their hawk for. Their financial reports are about as believable as their attendance figures.

http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/articles/20130504/further-financial-improvements-reported_2241384_3166005


https://twitter.com/pieandbov/status/330627499144933376



Lost £1.65M in a year with a cup win, a European tie against Spurs and selling Lee Wallace for £1.5M.

Reporting 1.96 m transfer gain.

To be fair, on the plus side for them, a lot of the high earners will be out of contract and be gone from the next accounts, should they still exist.

[grunt]

I see Hearts reporting of their financial results ...Wonder what the audit report says...

[Andy74]

Still banging on about building a stadium suitable for one of Europe's top teams. Deary dear.

[PatHead]

Aw well, all is Barry. Don't know what we get excited about. When they have their new stadium and the youth players we are screwed.

[robinp]

https://twitter.com/pieandbov/status/330627499144933376

Lost £1.65M in a year with a cup win, a European tie against Spurs and selling Lee Wallace for £1.5M.
Pretty bad it has to be said, but when you were losing 10m just a.few years ago it would be party time!

[God Petrie]

Remember this is for 2011-2012 not this year. Think they were still getting UKIO/UBIG support for these results.

[Ozyhibby]

They have not been paying interest up till now on their debt and still losing money.
New stadium sounds great though.

[macca70]

Fans that bought shares in the October-December 2012 share issue, won't be allowed to attend 2013's AGM.

A hefty loss in a year that probably couldn't have been much better for them with the cup win and big European games.

But Allisbarry as they are self sufficient this year.

[Caversham Green]

Wonder what the audit report says...

:agree: I'm very surprised the accounts are out in the current circumstances - they'll make interesting reading (for me at any rate) and I'll offer some comments once I've seen them.

This does suggest that a planned administration isn't on the cards for the next few weeks though - they probably wouldn't have issued the accounts if it was.

As a side note this is for the year they won the big cup and they're reporting a £1.65m loss. When Hibs won the wee cup we reported a £7.5m profit.

[Gus Fring]

Here's the statement from their website


Heart of Midlothian plc (Hearts) today reported further improvement in its financial performance for the year ended 30 June 2012.


The club achieved an improved turnover of £8.68m (11 months ended June 2011: £6.92m).


The improvement in performance was underpinned by a revenue boost due in the main to the club's participation in the qualifying and play-off rounds of the 2011/12 UEFA Europa League. Additionally, the club also benefited from its successful William Hill Scottish Cup campaign culminating in a historic 5-1 victory against city rivals Hibernian at Hampden Park on the 19th May 2012.


The importance of the Heart of Midlothian Youth Academy was once again visible as the club benefited financially from another positive year in player trading, with a net gain of £1.96m accounted for in the main by the transfer of two of the club's Academy graduates - Scotland international defender Lee Wallace moved to Rangers and Icelandic international midfielder Eggert Jonsson joined English Premiership side Wolverhampton Wanderers.


The club also delivered a solid operating performance with reductions in operating expenses and staff costs when based on annualised figures for the previous period to year ended 30 June 2011. Finance charges also reduced on an annualised basis,with only a modest increase in net debt to £24.7m.


Post year end, the company also successfully resolved a contingent liability relating to an HMRC investigation from a previous reporting period. The result of this is that the company will report the full £1.58m settlement figure in this reporting period leading to a loss for the year of £1.65m.


The company's continued financial progress gives the club confidence that its financial position now provides the foundation stone for it to achieve the Financial Fair Play requirements of UEFA in time for its full introduction in season 2013/14.


The company continues to be resolute in its belief that the future of the business is dependent on three key factors - developing the best young footballers in the country, building a stadium that is befitting of one of the biggest clubs in the United Kingdom and expanding the supporter base of the club.


Our youth development policy aims to ensure that investment returns are delivered through managed player development, promotion and trading while also providing supporters with entertaining and successful football in domestic and European competitions.


Our stadium development plans continue to be an aim which will benefit the club, the city and the game of football in Scotland. And the requirement for a new stadium development whether that be at Tynecastle or elsewhere in the city has never been more evident than the recent European matches against English Premiership clubs Tottenham Hotspur and Liverpool when the club could have sold thousands more tickets and attracted thousands more visitors to the city if it had a suitable stadium facility.


We continue, however, to work with the City of Edinburgh Council and business partners in order to deliver a stadium befitting of a top European football team playing in one of the world's finest capital cities.


We are confident that future financial results will demonstrate further progress and with the continued support of the club's tens of thousands of supporters, Heart of Midlothian will be in a good position to benefit from changes in the game both domestically and in Europe.


During the period there has been mention of Heart of Midlothian being for sale. The Board can assure supporters that the club will only be sold on the basis of a constructive and realistic offer for the company and secondly, and as importantly, can prove that they have the resource, determination, and business acumen to allow Heart of Midlothian to prosper in future years.


The Board has, post year end, offered supporters the opportunity to take an increased share of the club which could lead to an outright purchase of the club in the future. The club is delighted with the positive response received and this gives it confidence that supporter ownership can be a viable proposition for the club. The Board can assure supporters that any structured and realistic offer presented to the Board by an organised and professionally constituted supporter organisation will be treated seriously.


We remain resolute and due to the commitment of all those associated with the club we are cautiously optimistic about the future of the business. This resolve and commitment will be particularly essential as we move forward given that the club can no longer depend on the support that it has received in previous years from UAB Ukio Banko Investicine Grupe ("UBIG").


It is crucial that everyone with the interests of the club at heart continues to back the team and we hope that this year's season ticket sales and match day ticket sales will show that the club can have a positive outlook going into the new season.


Finally, the Board would like to express its thanks to the employees, players, supporters, shareholders and other associates such as sponsors, commercial and community partners who continue to support the business.


Notes:


Full sets of the 2012 Annual Accounts will be arriving with shareholders from this morning (Saturday 4th May 2013).


The club AGM is scheduled for Thursday 23rd May 2013. This is only open to existing shareholders.


New shareholders, including those from the October to December 2012 share issue, will receive their shareholders' packs a few weeks after the AGM and will be entitled to attend future AGMs

[Benny Brazil]

We continue, however, to work with the City of Edinburgh Council and business partners in order to deliver a stadium befitting of a top European football team playing in one of the world's finest capital cities.


Hmmm.......

[grunt]

Interesting use of the word "recent" there when describing the game against Spurs. Almost 21 months ago.

[Northernhibee]

Love how their official statement is 'debt increased...new stadium...5-1'.

[Phil D. Rolls]

"Best young players", "biggest clubs in Britain", "top European team".

Says who? That's right, the Yams themselves. Nobody else.

It is believing nonsense like that which led them to the mess they are in. If they could just accept they are ordinary, then they could start making realistic plans.

As it stands, they have learned nothing and seem determined to ignore the rest of the planet. Madness, we all know what Einstein said about that: "doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result".

[Gus Fring]

"During the period there has been mention of Heart of Midlothian being for sale. The Board can assure supporters that the club will only be sold on the basis of a constructive and realistic offer for the company and secondly, and as importantly, can prove that they have the resource, determination, and business acumen to allow Heart of Midlothian to prosper in future years"

Doesn't sound to me like they are actively looking to sell? Sounds more like "Aye, we'll sell if we get a decent offer but we might as well hang on to it the now"

[21.05.2016]

Love how their official statement is 'debt increased...new stadium...5-1'.

Aye thats it just say 5-1 and all the problems disappear :aok:

[Phil D. Rolls]

"During the period there has been mention of Heart of Midlothian being for sale. The Board can assure supporters that the club will only be sold on the basis of a constructive and realistic offer for the company and secondly, and as importantly, can prove that they have the resource, determination, and business acumen to allow Heart of Midlothian to prosper in future years"

Doesn't sound to me like they are actively looking to sell? Sounds more like "Aye, we'll sell if we get a decent offer but we might as well hang on to it the now"

Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

[21.05.2016]

"Best young players", "biggest clubs in Britain", "top European team".

Says who? That's right, the Yams themselves. Nobody else.

It is believing nonsense like that which led them to the mess they are in. If they could just accept they are ordinary, then they could start making realistic plans.

As it stands, they have learned nothing and seem determined to ignore the rest of the planet. Madness, we all know what Einstein said about that: "doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result".

I totally agree. Their delusion and arrogance has contributed to the mess they are in. Their complete denial and failure to live in the real world has been a god send for Vlad and co as for years they have got away with spinning them any old bull**** because the muppets just swallow it. Any other set of fans would have seen through the lies and took action but no the jams just hung on every word and lived in merry old Vlad land. I remember jambos absolutely creaming themselves at the start of the Vlad era when he promised them world cup stars, huge 5 star multi-plex stadium, SPL titles and even a Champions league trophy in 10 years! Anybody with half a brain cell and even the slightest grip with the real world can see that those promises were simply ludicrous but no not our jambo friends.

Their "big team wee team" bull**** sums them up for what they really are and that is small minded, arrogant, deluded muppets. Let them carry on thinking they are a big huge superpower club, that kind of delusion will only make their downfall all the harder and funnier!

[One Day Soon]

:agree: I'm very surprised the accounts are out in the current circumstances - they'll make interesting reading (for me at any rate) and I'll offer some comments once I've seen them.

This does suggest that a planned administration isn't on the cards for the next few weeks though - they probably wouldn't have issued the accounts if it was.

As a side note this is for the year they won the big cup and they're reporting a £1.65m loss. When Hibs won the wee cup we reported a £7.5m profit.


The pro-Yam grouping outside the club are sitting on a cash pile of over £5 million and they believe they can get the club for that and perhaps even less.
They have, not surprisingly, been speaking to everyone under the sun to look for funding and support.

I am somewhat concerned by the reference in their accounts to the potential to bring thousands more visitors into the city:

"Our stadium development plans continue to be an aim which will benefit the club, the city and the game of football in Scotland. And the requirement for a new stadium development whether that be at Tynecastle or elsewhere in the city has never been more evident than the recent European matches against English Premiership clubs Tottenham Hotspur and Liverpool when the club could have sold thousands more tickets and attracted thousands more visitors to the city if it had a suitable stadium facility."

This is the kind of language that is used in broad and nebulous terms by Councils and politicians - not by football clubs.

If I were putting together a rescue package I would be looking to use my £5 million to buy the club for that or less seeking to use the balance to clear some residual debt and/or as working capital for next season (given that season ticket revenue will be shipped off to HMRC) and seeking a solution to the stadium challenge which involved the Council either supplying an interim facility (Meadowbank?) or giving financial guarantees on a new community stadium elsewhere in the city as a way around spending actual Council capital on a stadium. If I were doing all that and I was in conversation with a variety of parties - including Council people - then the tourism visitors cobblers above is precisely the sort of broader language of justification I would expect to start to see being wheeled into play just now.

[greenginger]

What are the Auditors saying about the " going Concern " nature of the business ? :confused:

[MrSmith]

What are the Auditors saying about the " going Concern " nature of the business ? :confused:

I might be ok for that period. From what I read it is to June 2012 so, perhaps evidence of technicality or play on dates just to get over a time period?? However no way can it be a going concern from June 2012 to June 2013!

Joke anyway! Historic 5-1 victory over city rivals - is that it?? @allisbary again with the hordes!

[clerriehibs]

phannies - esp #allisbarry when he gets round to 'reporting' this, verbatim.

[Keith_M]

Apparently, the first draft of the statement was considered not to be acceptable to their fans

"......if it had a suitable stadium facility, like our local rivals Hibernian"


:wink:

[clerriehibs]

Apparently, the first draft of the statement was considered not to be acceptable to their fans

"......if it had a suitable stadium facility, like our local rivals Hibernian"

:wink:

Local rivals? They're not even on our planet anymore!

[MrSmith]

Local rivals? They're not even on our planet anymore!

It reads to me as if its a combination or culmination of three different statements!! Flatter to deceive is my take on it!!

[Kato]

I've seen less spin on two goes of the Waltzers.

[adhibs]

The pro-Yam grouping outside the club are sitting on a cash pile of over £5 million and they believe they can get the club for that and perhaps even less.
They have, not surprisingly, been speaking to everyone under the sun to look for funding and support.



Who's this group? Guessing not FOH after their begging bowl letters

[Dashing Bob S]

Well, I'm with Murray the MP, AllIsBarry and Rolland (the scotsman commenter) Rat on this one. Serious political pressure WILL be brought to bear to ensure the survival of Hearts.

What you lot don't seem to appreciate is that the security of Europe, nay the World, depends on a stong Hearts. Over here in Germany, they are secretly re-arming, in the knowledge that the only organisation that stopped them winning the LAST two world wars may soon be defunct.

They know, as I'm sure everyone else does, that without hearts to save us once again, the Germans WILL be victorious this time.


You have been warned!!!


So true. Surprised nobody has mentioned that the ascendancy of the German clubs in the CL has coincided with Hearts financial problems and general decline. Without the thick maroon line of 400,000 to protect us we'll soon be reduced to drinking proper beer instead of Tennents and dressing in Hugo Boss.

[allezsauzee]

A fiver to get in at the PBS today. It will be interesting to see how many of their loyal supporters are willing to spend that much to watch their team.

[Caversham Green]

I might be ok for that period. From what I read it is to June 2012 so, perhaps evidence of technicality or play on dates just to get over a time period?? However no way can it be a going concern from June 2012 to June 2013!

Joke anyway! Historic 5-1 victory over city rivals - is that it?? @allisbary again with the hordes!

No, the going concern aspect relates to the company's ability to continue trading for the foreseeable future, which is usually considered to be a year from the date of signing the audit report.

That means that if the report was signed yesterday the auditors believe HoMFC will be able to continue trading until 2 May 2014 - subject to any qualifications they make. It's those qualifications that will be interesting (the date of signature may also be relevant).

[Kevvy1875]

'BBC Scotland reporter Clive Lindsay at Tynecastle: "Hearts' hopes of a sell-out as a result of reduced admission prices look unlikely to be realised. At kick-off, there are still big gaps in the stands. However, it looks like a fairly healthy crowd - and no doubt a lot bigger than would have been here otherwise."

:titanic:

[Sanger]

Today's announcement that Hearts debt stands at just over £25 million means the real debt is over £47 million as £12m & £10m if debt converted into shares that UBIG held but now a claim against the original UB loan to UBIG. Will the administrator accept £2 million for £47 million of debt?

[Bishop Hibee]

Since the official figure cannot be trusted we will probably never know what the real crowd is. FoI request to L and B's finest maybe.

[MrSmith]

No, the going concern aspect relates to the company's ability to continue trading for the foreseeable future, which is usually considered to be a year from the date of signing the audit report.

That means that if the report was signed yesterday the auditors believe HoMFC will be able to continue trading until 2 May 2014 - subject to any qualifications they make. It's those qualifications that will be interesting (the date of signature may also be relevant).

Thanks for this CG - Makes me feel better knowing how it works, Just seems crazy, in-fact, totally off the wall!

[Mikey]

Today's announcement that Hearts debt stands at just over £25 million means the real debt is over £47 million as £12m & £10m if debt converted into shares that UBIG held but now a claim against the original UB loan to UBIG. Will the administrator accept £2 million for £47 million of debt?

Nice one. Reckon they'll make that figure stick?

[Keith_M]

So true. Surprised nobody has mentioned that the ascendancy of the German clubs in the CL has coincided with Hearts financial problems and general decline. Without the thick maroon line of 400,000 to protect us we'll soon be reduced to drinking proper beer instead of Tennents and dressing in Hugo Boss.


Indeed. I took a picture of this German Couple this morning, just after they heard the news of Hearts imminent descent into Administration.

9764






In fact, if it wasn't for the valiant organisation known as Hearts, all our women would look like THIS today. Now, I ask you, does anyone REALLY want that to happen?!?!


9765

[Caversham Green]

Thanks for this CG - Makes me feel better knowing how it works, Just seems crazy, in-fact, totally off the wall!

I agree - only the most rabidly optimistic yams are confident that they'll avoid some sort of insolvency, how an auditor can come to that conclusion is beyond me. I'll wait for the report.


Today's announcement that Hearts debt stands at just over £25 million means the real debt is over £47 million as £12m & £10m if debt converted into shares that UBIG held but now a claim against the original UB loan to UBIG. Will the administrator accept £2 million for £47 million of debt?

The £15m reportedly due to Ukio is interesting. Either HoMFC have racked that up since December - which totally contradicts their self-sufficiency claims - or it has been transferred across from UBIG without advising the prospective shareholders during the share offer period. If it's the latter the sequence of events is:

Directors of UBIG sell £15m of unrecoverable and undersecured debt to the closely-related Ukio Bankas.
Ukio Bankas almost immediately goes 'rupt - the pot for creditors being £15m lighter.
UBIG directors - who are also directors of the debtor company and so had full knowledge of the state of the debt - resign en masse from the UBIG board.
Former UBIG directors, acting on behalf of the debtor company, now try to persuade Ukio's administrator that the £15m debt they sold to Ukio less than six months earlier is now worth only £2m.

Good luck with that last one if the administrator has more than one brain cell.

[danhibees1875]

Since the official figure cannot be trusted we will probably never know what the real crowd is. FoI request to L and B's finest maybe.

Looked quite big. About 16K probably isn't far off. Big St. Mirren turn-out too. At £5 a ticket I wonder how much extra they actually made than if they'd had fewer bodies at the usual price though.

[Col2]

Looked quite big. About 16K probably isn't far off. Big St. Mirren turn-out too. At £5 a ticket I wonder how much extra they actually made than if they'd had fewer bodies at the usual price though.

They have 9k season tickets so assume fr this game they would normally get extra 2k max at £20 each on average = £40k

Vs

7k at £5 each = £35k and a few more pies sold

Not much 'profit' there..

[MrSmith]

They have 9k season tickets so assume fr this game they would normally get extra 2k max at £20 each on average = £40k

Vs

7k at £5 each = £35k

Therefore a loss! but you would need to include extra matchday merchandise and hospitality to come to a more even figure.

[The Harp]

... a gesture to the fans for their support or a desperate measure calculated to bring in a few more £s than they would have had if they'd charged regular prices ... Hmmm, difficult one.:hmmm:

[green glory]

... a gesture to the fans for their support or a desperate measure calculated to bring in a few more £s than they would have had if they'd charged regular prices ... Hmmm, difficult one.:hmmm:

A pointless gesture. The Yams will be strutting about with their chests puffed out tonight thinking #allisbarry.

But still the dark shadow of #jambogeddon draws near.

[DaveF]

They have 9k season tickets so assume fr this game they would normally get extra 2k max at £20 each on average = £40k

Vs

7k at £5 each = £35k and a few more pies sold

Not much 'profit' there..

Maybe not, but it's a small step into getting people back into the habit of attending. Something that the Board of HFC seem to think isn't worth the bother of even trying.

[bingo70]

but you would need to include extra matchday merchandise and hospitality to come to a more even figure.

Also got to weigh it up against devaluing a season ticket even more, they're already pretty **** value for money, if hibs started making games 5 quid to get in for some games even less folk would sign up for season tickets

[adhibs]

Maybe not, but it's a small step into getting people back into the habit of attending. Something that the Board of HFC seem to think isn't worth the bother of even trying.

Then you just get the usual moans about season tickets being devalued, as with the recent moans about the raffle. Hard to keep everyone happy when theirs so many miserable folk around

[Ozyhibby]

Maybe not, but it's a small step into getting people back into the habit of attending. Something that the Board of HFC seem to think isn't worth the bother of even trying.

No point in getting into the habit of going somewhere that's closing soon.

[DaveF]

Also got to weigh it up against devaluing a season ticket even more, they're already pretty **** value for money, if hibs started making games 5 quid to get in for some games even less folk would sign up for season tickets

I'm not suggesting we do it for every game - far from it, as I'm a ST holder and would not agree with that. However, for meaningless end of season games such as Dundee and St Mirren why not try and do something to fill the empty spaces? There seems to be a distinct lack of imagination when it comes to selling the club to the community.

[greenlex]

I'm not suggesting we do it for every game - far from it, as I'm a ST holder and would not agree with that. However, for meaningless end of season games such as Dundee and St Mirren why not try and do something to fill the empty spaces? There seems to be a distinct lack of imagination when it comes to selling the club to the community.
I think had we not made the SC Final we would have. The Buddies game we were trying to get bums on seats with the lure of a draw for Cup Final tickets.

[Baldy Foghorn]

Then you just get the usual moans about season tickets being devalued, as with the recent moans about the raffle. Hard to keep everyone happy when theirs so many miserable folk around

Not so sure there are so many miserable folk around, but it would be foolish to sell ST's, then reduce the attendance price, as it would be detrimental to the people who have stumped up cash up front.......:cb

[Baldy Foghorn]

I'm not suggesting we do it for every game - far from it, as I'm a ST holder and would not agree with that. However, for meaningless end of season games such as Dundee and St Mirren why not try and do something to fill the empty spaces? There seems to be a distinct lack of imagination when it comes to selling the club to the community.

There are 20,000 going to the Final, some saying there will be some missing out on the Day.....Begs the question where they are on Match Days, because they sure ain't at Easter Road......

[blackpoolhibs]

Maybe not, but it's a small step into getting people back into the habit of attending. Something that the Board of HFC seem to think isn't worth the bother of even trying.

Not really true is it, we have had numerous cheap deals over the last few seasons to attract fans? :confused:

[Baldy Foghorn]

I think had we not made the SC Final we would have. The Buddies game we were trying to get bums on seats with the lure of a draw for Cup Final tickets.

Indeed, but even with that particular carrot, and a 3pm Saturday home match, the crowd was pish.....


Not really true is it, we have had numerous cheap deals over the last few seasons to attract fans? :confused:

Agree, there have been quite a few games with reduced admission prices, over the last few seasons.....

[blackpoolhibs]

Agree, there have been quite a few games with reduced admission prices, over the last few seasons.....

All ignored by folk who want to have a pop at the board. The only thing that is guaranteed to bring more folk through the gates, is attractive football. I even think now, folk wouldn't bother if we were scraping 1-0 wins with 1 up front and defending deep hitting teams on the break.

I'd take that in the final though. :pray:

[DaveF]

Not really true is it, we have had numerous cheap deals over the last few seasons to attract fans? :confused:

We have, but mainly for league cup ties against lower division opposition, no?

Today was £5 for everyone at Tynecastle and they got 16,300 attending. Clearly not all of them are going to go back but if it sows the seed in just a couple of hundred, those kay go on to become full paying ST holders in the not so distant future.

Sure, it was a gimmick today, but I would argue it was a gimmick worth doing.

[Baldy Foghorn]

All ignored by folk who want to have a pop at the board. The only thing that is guaranteed to bring more folk through the gates, is attractive football. I even think now, folk wouldn't bother if we were scraping 1-0 wins with 1 up front and defending deep hitting teams on the break.

I'd take that in the final though. :pray:

I won't celebrate unless we win 6-1, play super attacking free-flowing football, with at least a hat-trick for sparky.....:fibber:

[blackpoolhibs]

We have, but mainly for league cup ties against lower division opposition, no?

Today was £5 for everyone at Tynecastle and they got 16,300 attending. Clearly not all of them are going to go back but if it sows the seed in just a couple of hundred, those kay go on to become full paying ST holders in the not so distant future.

Sure, it was a gimmick today, but I would argue it was a gimmick worth doing.

We have had cheap deals for league games too, in fact there have been some games where you could get in free. You cant get any cheaper than that, £5 seems a bit dear when you consider what we have done.

How many of the free entrants have been back and bought season tickets?

[Billy Whizz]

We have, but mainly for league cup ties against lower division opposition, no?

Today was £5 for everyone at Tynecastle and they got 16,300 attending. Clearly not all of them are going to go back but if it sows the seed in just a couple of hundred, those kay go on to become full paying ST holders in the not so distant future.

Sure, it was a gimmick today, but I would argue it was a gimmick worth doing.
Seems a good idea for regular non attending fans. Do I get £15 back from Hibs as I probably paid around £20 for a discounted game as part of my season ticket!

[clerriehibs]

We have, but mainly for league cup ties against lower division opposition, no?

Today was £5 for everyone at Tynecastle and they got 16,300 attending. Clearly not all of them are going to go back but if it sows the seed in just a couple of hundred, those kay go on to become full paying ST holders in the not so distant future.

Sure, it was a gimmick today, but I would argue it was a gimmick worth doing.

well, there's no distant future.

[Waxy]

There are 20,000 going to the Final, some saying there will be some missing out on the Day.....Begs the question where they are on Match Days, because they sure ain't at Easter Road......How many times do we hear this? where are they on a saturday? well if 14000 odd tickets are going to 8000 odd season ticket holders,the problem is who are the people who are getting the spare tickets from the season ticket holders?
Season ticket holders shouldnt be moaning about this because they are the ones giving the spare tickets away.

[blackpoolhibs]

I won't celebrate unless we win 6-1, play super attacking free-flowing football, with at least a hat-trick for sparky.....:fibber:

I suppose you are right, in fact if we don't do as you say i'm giving up my seat on the open top bus and will just go home a day early.

[Baldy Foghorn]

I suppose you are right, in fact if we don't do as you say i'm giving up my seat on the open top bus and will just go home a day early.

:greengrin


How many times do we hear this? where are they on a saturday? well if 14000 odd tickets are going to 8000 odd season ticket holders,the problem is who are the people who are getting the spare tickets from the season ticket holders?
Season ticket holders shouldnt be moaning about this because they are the ones giving the spare tickets away.

Lots, because it remains a hot topic, and won't go away, unless we have a full house every week......Are you suggesting it's the ST holders fault, by using their privileges?? Aye it's the fault of ST holders that we don't have bigger crowds each week:cb

[DaveF]

We have had cheap deals for league games too, in fact there have been some games where you could get in free. You cant get any cheaper than that, £5 seems a bit dear when you consider what we have done.

How many of the free entrants have been back and bought season tickets?

Free with a full paying adult wasn't it? Not quite the same.

You know fine well your last point in answerable. I wasn't suggesting people attending today because of 1 x £5 game suddenly become a ST holders. It was the longer term effect of making football appealing as an affordable day out I was getting at.

the bottom line is that it seems to have worked. They had an attendance well above average for a game they were favourites to win. Job done all round.

[Hibby Kay-Yay]

Lots, because it remains a hot topic, and won't go away, unless we have a full house every week......Are you suggesting it's the ST holders fault, by using their privileges?? Aye it's the fault of ST holders that we don't have bigger crowds each week:cb

:hijack:

[Baldy Foghorn]

:hijack:

Can't understand how I am supposed to have hijacked a thread, whereby the latest posts are discussing the merits of price reductions and the effect on the gates.....:confused:

[blackpoolhibs]

Free with a full paying adult wasn't it? Not quite the same.

You know fine well your last point in answerable. I wasn't suggesting people attending today because of 1 x £5 game suddenly become a ST holders. It was the longer term effect of making football appealing as an affordable day out I was getting at.

the bottom line is that it seems to have worked. They had an attendance well above average for a game they were favourites to win. Job done all round.

You are right it is not quite the same, its a fiver cheaper than the gimps paid. I only answered you because you said

(There seems to be a distinct lack of imagination when it comes to selling the club to the community)

And

(but it's a small step into getting people back into the habit of attending. Something that the Board of HFC seem to think isn't worth the bother of even trying)

We do have folk getting in cheaply, and as i said we also have let them in for free. Seemed to me you wanted to praise the gimps and have a pop at Hibs for doing similar?

[Waxy]

Lots, because it remains a hot topic, and won't go away, unless we have a full house every week......Are you suggesting it's the ST holders fault, by using their privileges?? Aye it's the fault of ST holders that we don't have bigger crowds each week:cbNo.your asking where these fans go on a regular saturday.Well the season ticket holders know the answer because they know who got the extra ticket.

[Hibby Kay-Yay]

Can't understand how I am supposed to have hijacked a thread, whereby the latest posts are discussing the merits of price reductions and the effect on the gates.....:confused:

Apologies Baldy, was not meant to quote anyone, just a separate hijack smiley. iPhone issues:aok:

[greenlex]

Sweeties to get into early stages of cup games fails to attract any bigger crowds and in most cases attracts lower crowds. I think the siege mentalily after the weeks rumblings had an effect on the crowd at the wongadome today as much as the reduced price.

[blackpoolhibs]

Sweeties to get into early stages of cup games fails to attract any bigger crowds and in most cases attracts lower crowds. I think the siege mentalily after the weeks rumblings had an effect on the crowd at the wongadome today as much as the reduced price.

And anyone who thinks this £5 entrance fee was done to entice folk back, must button up at the back of their head?

[Baldy Foghorn]

No.your asking where these fans go on a regular saturday.Well the season ticket holders know the answer because they know who got the extra ticket.

Assuming ST holders were entitled to two, not everyone would take their two, me and my mates (who have renewed), chose to take 1 each....

[Moon unit]

And anyone who thinks this £5 entrance fee was done to entice folk back, must button up at the back of their head?

Me thinks the board knows that the Ball is burst! - so a little sweetener to keep the Yams happy!

[Waxy]

Assuming ST holders were entitled to two, not everyone would take their two, me and my mates (who have renewed), chose to take 1 each....Ok.But the vast majority have taken two.These spares more than most are going to a family member(granny) or close pal who probably rarely goes to Easter road.Attendances support this.Whereas the few thousand who cant afford a ST but go to a number of matches are in the ticket lotto.Anyway this is for another thread.

[Baldy Foghorn]

Me thinks the board knows that the Ball is burst! - so a little sweetener to keep the Yams happy!

Agree, time is ebbing away from them, it was a sweetener

[greenlex]

Ok.But the vast majority have taken two.These spares more than most are going to a family member(granny) or close pal who probably rarely goes to Easter road.Attendances support this.Whereas the few thousand who cant afford a ST but go to a number of matches are in the ticket lotto.Anyway this is for another thread.
There will be a good few possibly most that will find there way into those very walk up fans hands. Think about our average attendance in comparison to final allocation. There wont be many if any Hibs fans that really want to go that cant/wont get their hands on tickets. How many do you know that missed out last year?

[paul_hfc3]

To settle an argument with my Jambos mate in the pub. How much is Tynecastle worth as an area of flats or shops to be built on (the land basically) They claim that Tynecastle won't be sold off because it is worth nothing because nothing cant be built in the area if Tynecastle was to be demolished., because the area is unsafe due to the brewery now pouring out bad gasses in air, therefore nothing can be built. Is this true or rubbish?

[Saorsa]

To settle an argument with my Jambos mate in the pub. How much is Tynecastle worth as an area of flats or shops to be built on (the land basically) They claim that Tynecastle won't be sold off because it is worth nothing because nothing cant be built in the area if Tynecastle was to be demolished., because the area is unsafe due to the brewery now pouring out bad gasses in air, therefore nothing can be built. Is this true or rubbish?I think it's them that are pouring out bad gasses

[greenlex]

To settle an argument with my Jambos mate in the pub. How much is Tynecastle worth as an area of flats or shops to be built on (the land basically) They claim that Tynecastle won't be sold off because it is worth nothing because nothing cant be built in the area if Tynecastle was to be demolished., because the area is unsafe due to the brewery now pouring out bad gasses in air, therefore nothing can be built. Is this true or rubbish?

Covered elsewhere and according to their own report there is nothing stopping anyone building flats on the whole site. The problem was ethanol tanks on the site of the brewery. Their position on the brewery site is outwith the exclusion zone as opposed to the the edge of the brewery site which would render the site unfit. So it is in fact rubbish.

[blackpoolhibs]

To settle an argument with my Jambos mate in the pub. How much is Tynecastle worth as an area of flats or shops to be built on (the land basically) They claim that Tynecastle won't be sold off because it is worth nothing because nothing cant be built in the area if Tynecastle was to be demolished., because the area is unsafe due to the brewery now pouring out bad gasses in air, therefore nothing can be built. Is this true or rubbish?

Ask him what the health and safety folk are doing about the brewery pouring out poisons into the air we all breathe?

Does he really think any council would allow a company to pollute the air we breathe these days without clamping down on them?

Get him a bunch of straws and let him clutch them very tightly.

[JimBHibees]

Yep they lie so often it is unreal. Was it Hitler that said the bigger the lie the more they will believe?

Incredible really even more incredible is that even after the Rangers fiasco and the way the MSM doctored and lied their way through it the asses of the media continue to peddle absolute rot and expect the ordinary fan to continue to be fed their complete nonsense. Shameful all of it. We have had ordinary people smashing open kids piggy banks for no reason other to wipe the ass of Romanov.

Succulent lambs are now succulent yams.

Get some truth back in the game please as the credibility of it is at rock bottom.

[weecounty hibby]

Its a distillery not a brewery!!!

[Waxy]

There will be a good few possibly most that will find there way into those very walk up fans hands. Think about our average attendance in comparison to final allocation. There wont be many if any Hibs fans that really want to go that cant/wont get their hands on tickets. How many do you know that missed out last year?Hope you are right but cup finals bring every last fan out the woodwork.There is always someone who misses out.

[Ozyhibby]

Hearts are days/weeks from oblivion and people on here want us to copy their pricing policy. Scary.