Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

[Bishop Hibee]

Pure coincidence that as Vlad's empire crumbles, rumours circulate over a new stadium at Sighthill :hmmm::grr:

[hibee_nation]

I take it Olga is mother of Julija Goncaruk, Hearts director and fashion designer to the great and good of Milan !

Heard the Revolution reversible satin jackets are going down a storm with the Milanese gliterati, probably making the yams loads of dosh. :fibber:

[Golden Bear]

If UBIG fold Hearts won't be debt free

That's all very well but they'll only be chasing their own tail. I mean who else is going to pursue the outstanding debt?

:wink:

[matty_f]

That's all very well but they'll only be chasing their own tail. I mean who else is going to pursue the outstanding debt?

:wink:

Ubig's creditors.

[cam2644]

I imagine Vlad is planning his exit but will time it to minimize his losses. That means the end could come suddenly at a time the Jambos don't expect it.

[greenlex]

If UBIG fold Hearts won't be debt free
:agree: If RBOS had gone bust I would still have owed somebody my mortgage and loan. It wouldn't have been written off.

[Seveno]

Meanwhile in Yamland, they are wondering if 'Uncle Vlad' will come to the Final.

Be honest, we'll miss the humour.

[greenginger]

Had a look over on kickback to see how today's news is going down. In a word unbelievable !


Top thread is about a yam who lost his scarf 2 weeks ago in the pub -44 posts.

The EEN article - 5 posts and it won't affect them as they are a stand alone business now. No mention of debt or securities held by Ukio Bankas on Tynecastle.

They are living in cloud coo-coo land.

[Seveno]

Had a look over on kickback to see how today's news is going down. In a word unbelievable !


Top thread is about a yam who lost his scarf 2 weeks ago in the pub -44 posts.

The EEN article - 5 posts and it won't affect them as they are a stand alone business now. No mention of debt or securities held by Ukio Bankas on Tynecastle.

They are living in cloud coo-coo land.

Come on, be reasonable. That scarf could become a collectors item.

[inglisavhibs]

If UBIG fold Hearts won't be debt free

That's the bit I am not sure about. Would they force the sale of Tynie?

[CropleyWasGod]

That's the bit I am not sure about. Would they force the sale of Tynie?

The liquidators of UBIG would call in the debt, part of which is secured. Once it was clear that the debt couldn't be repaid, they would exercise their security and take possession of Tynie.

[Seveno]

The liquidators of UBIG would call in the debt, part of which is secured. Once it was clear that the debt couldn't be repaid, they would exercise their security and take possession of Tynie.

Have you ever come across a liquidator grant a long term lease on a property asset ?

[CropleyWasGod]

Have you ever come across a liquidator grant a long term lease on a property asset ?

Can't say I have, but I suppose it's feasible.

It would need the consent of the creditors, though, and I reckon creditors would prefer to get a lump sum now.

The other thing that may be relevant is that a liquidation of UBIG would be under Lith Law, and for all I know things are different.

[HIBERNIAN-0762]

They are living in cloud coo-coo land.

When have they never GG?, the word deluded seems to been invented with them in mind, hopefully not long now before they join their big brothers in division 3 or even better with their "pals" at Gretna 2000

:bye:

[pogo]

I was wondering something, what would happen if, after taking in all the new season ticket sales, Vlad shut down the club and did a runner? If he then sold off whatever other assets he could realise, where would that leave them?
Is this a feasible option?

[ancient hibee]

They would be creditors of the club.

[Billy Whizz]

They would be creditors of the club.

400,000 creditors

[copycat]

I was wondering something, what would happen if, after taking in all the new season ticket sales, Vlad shut down the club and did a runner? If he then sold off whatever other assets he could realise, where would that leave them?
Is this a feasible option?

The stadium is tide up in so many contractual agreements that the administrator/liquidator/new owners won't be able to touch the stadium or key assets, they will rent the stadium.

There has been so much debt written off to various companies that there is no way there isn't security in the deal, as disclosed today the bank may have been used as Russians to launder money!!

The alarm bells are ringing louder, no one has 1 iota what is going on but its clear its not going to end well.

[ScottB]

If they went bust, or even into admin technically the season tickets would be worthless. As was pointed out during the Rangers mess, technically Duff & Duffer could have declared all the season tickets null and void and started trying to charge them all ticket prices.

[EuanH78]

http://www.nasdaqomxbaltic.com/market/?currency=EUR&instrument=LT0000102352&list=2&pg=details&tab=realtime&lang=en&downloadcsv=0
-16%. hahahahahahearts

First time its been under 10p and was close to hitting 8p. Thats what Big Teams are all about. :agree:

Its worse than that. Its 0.085 Euros which is about 7.2p.... Just saying :greengrin

[greenginger]

If they went bust, or even into admin technically the season tickets would be worthless. As was pointed out during the Rangers mess, technically Duff & Duffer could have declared all the season tickets null and void and started trying to charge them all ticket prices.

And their share certificates would'nt be worth the paper they are printed on. :greengrin

But seeing they ain't got said certificates yet could they ask for their money back. :wink:

[Caversham Green]

And their share certificates would'nt be worth the paper they are printed on. :greengrin

But seeing they ain't got said certificates yet could they ask for their money back. :wink:

They haven't filed a notice of allotment yet either. :hmmm:

[bingo70]

They haven't filed a notice of allotment yet either. :hmmm:

What does that mean?

[hibee_nation]

What does that mean?

I think its where you grow vegetables. :greengrin

[Eyrie]

I think its where you grow vegetables. :greengrin
Yams are vegetables.

[Keith_M]

They haven't filed a notice of allotment yet either. :hmmm:


What does that mean?


I think he's alluding to the only viable plan for the PBS land after it's been sold off

:wink:

[Caversham Green]

What does that mean?

It's a form that has to be filed at Companies House when a company issues new shares. It has to be filed within a month of allotment (i.e. issue of the shares), which should have been about three weeks ago. Until it's filed the shares don't officially exist.

[Kaiser1962]

They haven't filed a notice of allotment yet either. :hmmm:

Am I correct in thinking that they have two months to do this? So they still have a week and a bit=ish?

[bingo70]

It's a form that has to be filed at Companies House when a company issues new shares. It has to be filed within a month of allotment (i.e. issue of the shares), which should have been about three weeks ago. Until it's filed the shares don't officially exist.

So they've just effectively given Vlad money for nothing.

Would it not be illegal to take money for something claiming it was for shares then not register them with companies house? I'd have thought that'd be classed as fraud or theft or something?

What's your suspicions he's up to with this one?

[Caversham Green]

So they've just effectively given Vlad money for nothing.

Would it not be illegal to take money for something claiming it was for shares then not register them with companies house? I'd have thought that'd be classed as fraud or theft or something?

What's your suspicions he's up to with this one?

It's probably just the yams riding roughshod over the law of the land again - they never file anything on time - but in the event of liquidation/administration it would be treated as a failed share issue (they didn't reach the target) and the prospective shareholders would become ordinary creditors who would get nothing as the secured debt exceeds the assets.

If, as is claimed, they're now operating at breakeven Mr Romanov has just added a million to the amount of debt he can recover.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Who Olga or Juljia, I'm sure Juljia was reported as Vlad 's niece and Olga would be Vlad's sister with Goncaruk being her married name. :confused:


Makings of a song here - The Romanov Family, bit like the " Norwich Family " :thumbsup:



the "addams family" would be more apt me thinks

[Moulin Yarns]

It's a form that has to be filed at Companies House when a company issues new shares. It has to be filed within a month of allotment (i.e. issue of the shares), which should have been about three weeks ago. Until it's filed the shares don't officially exist.

Maybe they have filed it in the Lithuanian equivalent? :confused: :wink:

[DC_Hibs]

So they've just effectively given Vlad money for nothing.


That's always been the case as even if they receive shares/share certificates they arenae worth a fekn sook.

[greenginger]

Was it ever made clear where the cash from share sales ,cake bakes etc was going to be kept ? I seem to remember the Yams could'nt pay by credit card -cash only.

So,was an account opened here to hold the funds or has Vlad put them under his bed for safe keeping. :cb

[Www1875hfc]

Was it ever made clear where the cash from share sales ,cake bakes etc was going to be kept ? I seem to remember the Yams could'nt pay by credit card -cash only.

So,was an account opened here to hold the funds or has Vlad put them under his bed for safe keeping. :cb

That money will be long gone.

Straight out the country,and in an offshore account. :greengrin

[Andy74]

Was it ever made clear where the cash from share sales ,cake bakes etc was going to be kept ? I seem to remember the Yams could'nt pay by credit card -cash only.

So,was an account opened here to hold the funds or has Vlad put them under his bed for safe keeping. :cb

It was needed just for running costs so will have been used as it came in.

[greenginger]

It was needed just for running costs so will have been used as it came in.


So, next Fridays wages, will come from _ _ _ _ ?????

[StevieC]

So, next Fridays wages, will come from _ _ _ _ ?????

Semi-final money and transfer income?

Cup final and season tickets will cover the two after that and transfer money will cover the first month of the close season.

Can't see anything happening this season but there may be some behind the scenes "shuffling" ready for major changes in the summer.

[jonty]

Its worse than that. Its 0.085 Euros which is about 7.2p.... Just saying :greengrin I did notice afterwards but was chuckling too much to edit. They're both pretry much 0 anyway :greengrin


So, next Fridays wages, will come from _ _ _ _ ?????
Banking delay until Monday and gate receipts processed.

[Ozyhibby]

Its worse than that. Its 0.085 Euros which is about 7.2p.... Just saying :greengrin

At that price Ukio is only worth about £25m. Don't think it could fall much lower before someone throws in the towel.

[PatHead]

So, next Fridays wages, will come from _ _ _ _ ?????


David Southern said last week they couldn't afford this months wages and would be releasing season tickets very early. If that is the case the SPL must take severe action as Hearts have clearly been taking the piss by signing players.

[HIBERNIAN-0762]

David Southern said last week they couldn't afford this months wages and would be releasing season tickets very early. If that is the case the SPL must take severe action as Hearts have clearly been taking the piss by signing players.

They won't bat an eyelid to this rest assured, they know the pathetic and weak SPL are too busy crossing swords with der hun to bother about this latest sordid episode of non payment of players (if true)

Arrogance is their middle name.

[jonty]

David Southern said last week they couldn't afford this months wages and would be releasing season tickets very early. If that is the case the SPL must take severe action as Hearts have clearly been taking the piss by signing players.
Ironically the only players that will be paid on time will the new loanees, if as reported, they're being paid in full by their parent clubs.

[HoboHarry]

David Southern said last week they couldn't afford this months wages and would be releasing season tickets very early. If that is the case the SPL must take severe action as Hearts have clearly been taking the piss by signing players.
I missed that, is there a link to that statement?

[bingo70]

David Southern said last week they couldn't afford this months wages and would be releasing season tickets very early. If that is the case the SPL must take severe action as Hearts have clearly been taking the piss by signing players.

Who's he?

[Aldo]

Who's he?

Is he no the Chief Executive or something. Holy ***** if this is true and they cannae afford wages then further punishment beckons.

I will however believe it when I see it.

O and FTY's

[#FromTheCapital]

Hearts announced on their website during the week to their 400,000 fans that if they buy a ticket for next weekends game against killie then they are guaranteed a ticket for the wee cup final. If they are struggling to pay this months wages then that offer starts to make a lot of sense

[Jack Hackett]

Hearts announced on their website during the week to their 400,000 fans that if they buy a ticket for next weekends game against killie then they are guaranteed a ticket for the wee cup final. If they are struggling to pay this months wages then that offer starts to make a lot of sense

As they will probably sell their allocation, this is indeed a desperate bid to get bums on seats and money in the till for a game that would probably only have had about 11k.

They're not missing a trick

[AlbertK86]

Heard from a Jambo usually in the know that they are paying £3k a week to Liverpool for Danny Wilson .... So much for them being skint

Wouldnae be surprised if they default on paying them and he gets hauled back .... Here's hopin

[blackpoolhibs]

Heard from a Jambo usually in the know that they are paying £3k a week to Liverpool for Danny Wilson .... So much for them being skint

Wouldnae be surprised if they default on paying them and he gets hauled back .... Here's hopin

I don't think that can be right, they were supposed to replace those they released with players on a smaller wage? Saying that, its not the first time they have broken the rules if they are doing this?

[AlbertK86]

I don't think that can be right, they were supposed to replace those they released with players on a smaller wage? Saying that, its not the first time they have broken the rules if they are doing this?

That was my reaction until he told me McGowan was on that

[Diclonius]

Heard from a Jambo usually in the know that they are paying £3k a week to Liverpool for Danny Wilson .... So much for them being skint

Wouldnae be surprised if they default on paying them and he gets hauled back .... Here's hopin

Called it.

Cheating the SPL and the taxpayer yet again. They have zero morals.

What's worse, the authorities in this country just lie back and take it.

[Col2]

A wee timely point deduction of say 6 points would almost guarantee a bottom six position and possibly bottom two!

[Aldo]

A wee timely point deduction of say 6 points would almost guarantee a bottom six position and possibly bottom two!

The problem is that it should be more than 6 IMHO.

As for the wages part. Who audits what they are paying?? Vlad tells Regan and Doncaster that they are only paying the boy 1,500 and the question is... Would they believe it??

[Chibs]

The problem is that it should be more than 6 IMHO.

As for the wages part. Who audits what they are paying?? Vlad tells Regan and Doncaster that they are only paying the boy 1,500 and the question is... Would they believe it??
I woulldn't believe a word that mad ******* says.
Anyhoo onwards and downwards for the **** of the earth.

[The Green Goblin]

The problem is that it should be more than 6 IMHO.

As for the wages part. Who audits what they are paying?? Vlad tells Regan and Doncaster that they are only paying the boy 1,500 and the question is... Would they believe it??

Wasnt there some shenanigans about part wages being paid from lithuania at one point? Maybe they only show the scottish wage slip, which amounts to "less" than the amount they are allowed?

[ScottB]

Wasnt there some shenanigans about part wages being paid from lithuania at one point? Maybe they only show the scottish wage slip, which amounts to "less" than the amount they are allowed?

I'd suspect in this case that'd be harder to pull off with the loan being from Liverpool rather than from Kaunas.

If they are paying thousands to these two loan players, even if it is less than who they replaced, then they have to be hammered should they fail to pay wages again. They had their chance to shed top earners and bring in some genuinely cheap replacements and they willingly chose not to bother.

[Springbank]

Perhaps the biggest news from tannadice yesterday was their one remaining saleable asset (zakiuakas) injured himself whilst falling onto a Dundee utd player.

Word had it that hearts were 100% reliant on getting a fee for him (from Swiss club young boys) to make it to June.

Looks like no transfer, no fee, and an injured overpaid sportsman to keep paying til summertime.

n0 7uck jambos

[#FromTheCapital]

Perhaps the biggest news from tannadice yesterday was their one remaining saleable asset (zakiuakas) injured himself whilst falling onto a Dundee utd player.

Word had it that hearts were 100% reliant on getting a fee for him (from Swiss club young boys) to make it to June.

Looks like no transfer, no fee, and an injured overpaid sportsman to keep paying til summertime.

n0 7uck jambos

Is there any indication of how long he'l be out for?

[Jack Hackett]

Is there any indication of how long he'l be out for?

I've heard he'll be fit for the wee cup final. :greengrin

[blackpoolhibs]

I've heard he'll be fit for the wee cup final. :greengrin

Fit but suspended. :greengrin

[PatHead]

I missed that, is there a link to that statement?

I was having a troll of kickback a couple of weeks ago. A guy had reported on a meeting with Southern and Hearts supporters. The following was added

"Some things not covered I think.

Under 18 concessions next season
No Dynamic pricing and prices with some minor exceptions back to 2011/2012 levels.
There will be pricing periods to encourage early purchase as pre 2012/2013
They will consider Cat B season ticket packages but no certainty.

It seems clear that the club has to meet all its current and upcoming costs costs from new revenue and no money will be coming from VR and the monies raised via the share issue etc is already spoken for or spent. Paying the February wages would seem to be a serious challenge and unless tehre is a player sale we may defualt again and face further sanctions. Interestingly Southern said Hearts had no complaints about how they were being dealt with which was entirely in line with the rules. There was even some criticism of the award of inflated player contracts which is really a criticism of VR and I dont think would have happened a few months ago. So maybe it is rally the end game for VR."


A couple of other posters commented on it but no-one contradicted the comments. Sorry about the spelling but I am quoting a Jambo.

[Sergey]

I was having a troll of kickback a couple of weeks ago. A guy had reported on a meeting with Southern and Hearts supporters. The following was added

"Some things not covered I think.

Under 18 concessions next season
No Dynamic pricing and prices with some minor exceptions back to 2011/2012 levels.
There will be pricing periods to encourage early purchase as pre 2012/2013
They will consider Cat B season ticket packages but no certainty.

It seems clear that the club has to meet all its current and upcoming costs costs from new revenue and no money will be coming from VR and the monies raised via the share issue etc is already spoken for or spent. Paying the February wages would seem to be a serious challenge and unless tehre is a player sale we may defualt again and face further sanctions. Interestingly Southern said Hearts had no complaints about how they were being dealt with which was entirely in line with the rules. There was even some criticism of the award of inflated player contracts which is really a criticism of VR and I dont think would have happened a few months ago. So maybe it is rally the end game for VR."


A couple of other posters commented on it but no-one contradicted the comments. Sorry about the spelling but I am quoting a Jambo.

This has probably been alluded to earlier in this thread, but what further sanctions are there? There's little point in another transfer embargo as the window is closed; a fine is pointless, so surely there is every chance of a points deduction.

Also, given that the wages are wired from Lithuania, what would happen if Ukio and/or UBIG were to go skint this week? There would be no monies forthcoming for the foreseeable, if ever again.

Never before has :ostrich:been more apt to describe the actions of the yam faithful.

[bingo70]

This has probably been alluded to earlier in this thread, but what further sanctions are there? There's little point in another transfer embargo as the window is closed; a fine is pointless, so surely there is every chance of a points deduction.

Also, given that the wages are wired from Lithuania, what would happen if Ukio and/or UBIG were to go skint this week? There would be no monies forthcoming for the foreseeable, if ever again.

Never before has :ostrich:been more apt to describe the actions of the yam faithful.

Imo there won't be a points deduction, the next step should imo be that they're not allowed to play any player that isn't paid up to date.

[PatHead]

Imo there won't be a points deduction, the next step should imo be that they're not allowed to play any player that isn't paid up to date.

That would be fair but what is the definition of up to date? Does that include bonuses and match fees or is it just basic salaries? I know we all have a go at the SPL but it could be really difficult if Hearts only paid the first team and left all the admin, shop and casual staff as well as suppliers unpaid to ensure Zaluskas on his £9k a week could play. Bit like how it backfired on taxes when they just stopped the council tax payments to meet them.

Points deduction would be the fairest with a point deducted for every day all wages remain unpaid.

[The Green Goblin]

Imo there won't be a points deduction, the next step should imo be that they're not allowed to play any player that isn't paid up to date.

A sanction which should automatically be in place for all teams anyway imho.

[ScottB]

Imo there won't be a points deduction, the next step should imo be that they're not allowed to play any player that isn't paid up to date.

While this should definitely be a set rule, it might be a bit dodgy to add it in after a club has already defaulted, in that it would encourage them to pay some of the players and the others. I doubt the SPFA would stand by and watch that.

Points deductions are the way to go, but I would have a rule in place starting next season that states only players that have their payments up to date can be picked.

[Sergey]

I also think that the SPL or whoever it is that's dolling-out the punishments should have put a suspended sentence in place so that the yams (or whoever else) know exactly what faces them should they once again default. Just saying that further sanctions will be put in place leaves everyone in the dark.

FFS - by the yams own admission they've stated that they don't have the cash to see them to the seasons end - they are behind with rent, tax and probably PAYE and god knows what else.

One other thing - if UBIG/Ukio do go under this week, would the yams automatically enter administration?

[HoboHarry]

I also think that the SPL or whoever it is that's dolling-out the punishments should have put a suspended sentence in place so that the yams (or whoever else) know exactly what faces them should they once again default. Just saying that further sanctions will be put in place leaves everyone in the dark.

FFS - by the yams own admission they've stated that they don't have the cash to see them to the seasons end - they are behind with rent, tax and probably PAYE and god knows what else.

One other thing - if UBIG/Ukio do go under this week, would the yams automatically enter administration?
Why are the banks in danger of going under this week in particular? The stocks have been down for quite a while, I know that, but why do you mention this coming week?

[Ozyhibby]

I also think that the SPL or whoever it is that's dolling-out the punishments should have put a suspended sentence in place so that the yams (or whoever else) know exactly what faces them should they once again default. Just saying that further sanctions will be put in place leaves everyone in the dark.

FFS - by the yams own admission they've stated that they don't have the cash to see them to the seasons end - they are behind with rent, tax and probably PAYE and god knows what else.

One other thing - if UBIG/Ukio do go under this week, would the yams automatically enter administration?
If ukio/ubig are being wound up then whoever is doing the winding up will be running Hearts. They will quickly see that there is no chance of paying off the loan and will make a decision on whether to try sell the whole club or break it up and sell it. Starting price for someone wishing to buy the club would be about £7m, which is roughly the value of the land. An extra 50p should cover the value of the brand.

[ScottB]

I also think that the SPL or whoever it is that's dolling-out the punishments should have put a suspended sentence in place so that the yams (or whoever else) know exactly what faces them should they once again default. Just saying that further sanctions will be put in place leaves everyone in the dark.

FFS - by the yams own admission they've stated that they don't have the cash to see them to the seasons end - they are behind with rent, tax and probably PAYE and god knows what else.

One other thing - if UBIG/Ukio do go under this week, would the yams automatically enter administration?

Well we have seen that for years now their 'accounts' basically state they only continue as going concern because of the support of Ukio / UBIG / Vlad. Surely if that support mechanism is totally removed, then they'd have to shut down. Wouldn't the directors become liable for any further losses because they would basically be trading while insolvent?

If the bank isn't ploughing any money in, and it certainly seems that it isn't, then it's not going to be a case of them running out of money, surely it'll either be the above situation, or whoever gets their hands on the remains of Vladcorp calling in the debts. Certainly from my limited knowledge I can't see how they can survive the collapse of Ukio...

[Ozyhibby]

On a lighter note, this is the first time I've been on this thread on the computer as opposed to my phone and I have just noticed that some of the pics have changed to Hector but some have no pic. Why?

[Mikey]

One other thing - if UBIG/Ukio do go under this week, would the yams automatically enter administration?

That's an 18 point deduction if they do. They would be 2 points adrift at the bottom :hilarious

And breath life back into our bet :wink:


On a lighter note, this is the first time I've been on this thread on the computer as opposed to my phone and I have just noticed that some of the pics have changed to Hector but some have no pic. Why?

Anyone who has an avatar has it automatically changed to Hector on this thread. If there's no avatar it remains blank.

Courtesy of that awfy clever No.10 :greengrin

[jgl07]

Imo there won't be a points deduction, the next step should imo be that they're not allowed to play any player that isn't paid up to date.

That would be a shame for Queens Park!

[SloopJB]

Why are the banks in danger of going under this week in particular? The stocks have been down for quite a while, I know that, but why do you mention this coming week?
The whole thread is based on guessology combined with the twisted logic that bad news stories about hearts are true, even if you make it up yourself, while good news stories are obviously made up by deluded hearts fans.
5 years of tick tocking, two countdown to last ever game meters and countless dudds stealing wages from hearts must convince you they will go bust this..... sorry, next week

[PatHead]

The whole thread is based on guessology combined with the twisted logic that bad news stories about hearts are true, even if you make it up yourself, while good news stories are obviously made up by deluded hearts fans.
5 years of tick tocking, two countdown to last ever game meters and countless dudds stealing wages from hearts must convince you they will go bust this..... sorry, next week

or the week after that...................

[Ozyhibby]

The whole thread is based on guessology combined with the twisted logic that bad news stories about hearts are true, even if you make it up yourself, while good news stories are obviously made up by deluded hearts fans.
5 years of tick tocking, two countdown to last ever game meters and countless dudds stealing wages from hearts must convince you they will go bust this..... sorry, next week


We only have to be right once. :wink::greengrin

[PatHead]

We only have to be right once. :wink::greengrin

Thats what I like a good positive post

[The Green Goblin]

FFS - by the yams own admission they've stated that they don't have the cash to see them to the seasons end - they are behind with rent, tax and probably PAYE and god knows what else?

Ah, but they have Wilson and Ngoo (Liverpool players don't you know?) making a difference on the park...and that's all that matters. All that money nonsense is just noise from an exaggerated media agenda against Hearts by journos and bitter Hobos. 5-1. It will be fine. As long as there's good players in the team, whatever it takes....that's what matters. Etc. :greengrin

[Kaiser1962]

The whole thread is based on guessology combined with the twisted logic that bad news stories about hearts are true, even if you make it up yourself, while good news stories are obviously made up by deluded hearts fans.
5 years of tick tocking, two countdown to last ever game meters and countless dudds stealing wages from hearts must convince you they will go bust this..... sorry, next week

There is certainly no "guessology" involved. Although it is difficult to put an exact date on when the end comes make no mistake they cannot go on as is, a fact acknowledged by the nonsense statements emanating from Tynecastle. The only guessing is whether the changes they have made are enough to allow them to continue in their present form, and we wont know this until they produce their accounts, which are already late. UBIG's directors will already know, and will have for months before the results are published (probably sometime in April), but the fact they have not been released yet suggests that all may not be well.

[Time For Heroes]

The whole thread is based on guessology combined with the twisted logic that bad news stories about hearts are true, even if you make it up yourself, while good news stories are obviously made up by deluded hearts fans.
5 years of tick tocking, two countdown to last ever game meters and countless dudds stealing wages from hearts must convince you they will go bust this..... sorry, next week

"The whole thread is based on guessology"
I dont believe that, guessology isnt even a word. ;0)

[Dashing Bob S]

They've been messed up and heading for the rocks for years now. Perhaps when the whole stinking edifice crashes into the abyss of non-league, Saughton enclosure hell, we will ask the real question, which is the biggest mystery in Scottish football: what took them so long? Why did Romanov continue to operate this club in such a ridiculous manner when he himself recognised the 'glass ceiling' in Scottish football of corrupt, sectarian-led, in-built institutionalised OF dominance?

It can only be through terrible idiotic business decision making, rampant, deluded egotism, or shady personal gain. And here we move into the murky waters of the black economy and East European politics and finances.

The real story of this era of Hearts (and Scottish football) is yet to be told, and will undoubtedly make for utterly sordid reading.

That tale might be some time in unraveling.

[Spike Mandela]

The way it's going if Hearts' demise gets any worse they might actually win the treble.:rolleyes:

[Kaiser1962]

The way it's going if Hearts' demise gets any worse they might actually win the treble.:rolleyes:

Dont worry Spike. They are out the SC.

[SloopJB]

There is certainly no "guessology" involved. Although it is difficult to put an exact date on when the end comes make no mistake they cannot go on as is, a fact acknowledged by the nonsense statements emanating from Tynecastle. The only guessing is whether the changes they have made are enough to allow them to continue in their present form, and we wont know this until they produce their accounts, which are already late. UBIG's directors will already know, and will have for months before the results are published (probably sometime in April), but the fact they have not been released yet suggests that all may not be well.
So you know exactly what the consequence of the UKIO share price has on HOMFC, Exactly how much Hearts are paying for their loan players, exactly how much money they have, exactly how much they need, exactly who will be leaving, eactly how much if any will be realised, exactly when they will pay wages owed or default.

The 1st bold bit, are they facts or are they nonesense, the 2nd bold bit suggests rather than guess, either way, you don't know for sure.


"The whole thread is based on guessology"
I dont believe that, guessology isnt even a word. ;0)
Of course there is, It's the ology of Guesstimationism.

[ScottB]

The way it's going if Hearts' demise gets any worse they might actually win the treble.:rolleyes:

Leeds and Portsmouth both enjoyed success right before they imploded...



So you know exactly what the consequence of the UKIO share price has on HOMFC, Exactly how much Hearts are paying for their loan players, exactly how much money they have, exactly how much they need, exactly who will be leaving, eactly how much if any will be realised, exactly when they will pay wages owed or default.

The 1st bold bit, are they facts or are they nonesense, the 2nd bold bit suggests rather than guess, either way, you don't know for sure.

We can take what such situations would mean in general, and apply them to Hearts. Nobody has said 'they will be bust by tomorrow. FACT.' or anything like that. Nobody knows when or indeed, if it will all come crashing down, but we can react to the facts we have; they can't pay their players, the bank is on the verge of collapse, another Lith bank is seeking to absorb the remains of Ukio etc. and then suggest the likely outcome.

As a situation it's going to inspire speculation on here, if you don't want to read that speculation come back to the thread once the bulldozers have pulled up in Gorgie!

[StevieC]

Imo there won't be a points deduction, the next step should imo be that they're not allowed to play any player that isn't paid up to date.

Why should a player be made to miss out on potential income from appearance and bonus money?
I reckon the players union would be down on this like a ton of bricks.

[Kaiser1962]

So you know exactly what the consequence of the UKIO share price has on HOMFC, Exactly how much Hearts are paying for their loan players, exactly how much money they have, exactly how much they need, exactly who will be leaving, eactly how much if any will be realised, exactly when they will pay wages owed or default.

The 1st bold bit, are they facts or are they nonesense, the 2nd bold bit suggests rather than guess, either way, you don't know for sure.

I thought my post made clear that no-one, outside UBIG's inner circle, knows for sure what Hearts current position is and that we can only base our predictions on information that we already have, which is that we know for sure that they are overspending by £7m per season, and that is unsustainable. We also know that they have failed to pay their players according to their contracts on a number of occassions. We know that their directors have recently issued a plea for money (although they might have been lying) and said they would not make it to the end of the season if they didnt get it (may be a lie also).

We have no idea how the collapse of UKIO will affect Hearts, if at all but we also know that the Hearts directors are employed, first and foremost, by UBIG and their responsibilities are primarily to UBIG. We also know that Hearts are late, again, publishing their accounts and we know that no share certificates, with regard to their recent share issue, have been issued to the purchasers and neither have they been lodged at companies house. We also know that their debts far exceed their assetts and are, technically, a busted flush.

[Caversham Green]

The whole thread is based on guessology combined with the twisted logic that bad news stories about hearts are true, even if you make it up yourself, while good news stories are obviously made up by deluded hearts fans.
5 years of tick tocking, two countdown to last ever game meters and countless dudds stealing wages from hearts must convince you they will go bust this..... sorry, next week

HoMFC have only survived over the last five years because of the financial support of V. Romanov and his business empire.
V Romanov has stated that HoMFC would no longer receive financial support from him or his business empire.
Share values in V Romanov's business empire have plummeted over the last few months.
Prior to the share issue the board of HoMFC (who are the only ones with full knowledge of HoMFC's financial position) have stated that the club would not survive this season without substantial financial input from other sources.
According to the board of HoMFC the targets set by them have not been met.
If the board of HoMFC were not being truthful they have taken the Gorgie faithful for £1m+.

The above points are the basis of this thread. Tell me which are guessology, twisted logic, untrue or made up.

[Time For Heroes]

Of course there is, It's the ology of Guesstimationism.

:D at my school I only got taught possibliesmaybies
Apologies
;D

[SloopJB]

Leeds and Portsmouth both enjoyed success right before they imploded...




We can take what such situations would mean in general, and apply them to Hearts. Nobody has said 'they will be bust by tomorrow. FACT.' or anything like that. Nobody knows when or indeed, if it will all come crashing down, but we can react to the facts we have; they can't pay their players, the bank is on the verge of collapse, another Lith bank is seeking to absorb the remains of Ukio etc. and then suggest the likely outcome.

As a situation it's going to inspire speculation on here, if you don't want to read that speculation come back to the thread once the bulldozers have pulled up in Gorgie!

Yes the have, witness the countdown meter.
Is that the rules, have a different opinion to you then don't come back until the event is confirmed?
Again the word GEUSS has been replaced with SUGGEST, my point was it is all based on guesswork which you appear to be endorsing, I guess.

I'll come back when I please, unless of course you ban me.

[ScottB]

Yes the have, witness the countdown meter.
Is that the rules, have a different opinion to you then don't come back until the event is confirmed?
Again the word GEUSS has been replaced with SUGGEST, my point was it is all based on guesswork which you appear to be endorsing, I guess.

I'll come back when I please, unless of course you ban me.

My point was why come on to a thread composed entirely of speculation to complain there aren't any FACTS on it?

The countdowns and the like where counting down to court cases and payment dates, any of which would have put them to the sword had they not been able to resolve them. If we all sit in silence till any future point when they do hit the wall it wouldn't make this much of a discussion board would it?

[Caversham Green]

Yes the have, witness the countdown meter.
Is that the rules, have a different opinion to you then don't come back until the event is confirmed?
Again the word GEUSS has been replaced with SUGGEST, my point was it is all based on guesswork which you appear to be endorsing, I guess.

I'll come back when I please, unless of course you ban me.

The countdown clock was directly based on a statement on the HoMFC website - no speculation or guesswork involved on the part of Hibs.net.

[SloopJB]

My point was why come on to a thread composed entirely of speculation to complain there aren't any FACTS on it?

The countdowns and the like where counting down to court cases and payment dates, any of which would have put them to the sword had they not been able to resolve them. If we all sit in silence till any future point when they do hit the wall it wouldn't make this much of a discussion board would it?

There were two count down meters to their last ever game.

I find it interesting reading but there is real work to be done filtering out the rubbish from the facts, there is fun to be had poking fun but what I'm finding is sometimes the fun poking, made up bits and guesswork is taken as gospel and grows arms and legs. Wages not paid this month? dunno, but hit them with a 6 point penalty, then the discussion grows how hard they should be hit for their cheating. The info might just be wrong, so yes a discussion can be had about possible sanctions but the tone of the posts suggest they are guilty now.

Cav posted the basis of the thread which is about right but go back to the begining and read again. I got 4 pages into the 249 so far and found enough to back up what I'm saying.

Sometimes, it isn't much of a discussion board but sometimes people take a different view. Some question that view which is the best reaction, others challenge, ridicule and/or insult.

Sometimes, a different opinion makes it a good discussion board.

I've had my own opinions challenged and in a couple of occasions my opinions have changed because of the discussion, that's evidence of a great discussion board.

[Sergey]

I find it interesting reading but there is real work to be done filtering out the rubbish....

Tip. Click on the 'Forum Actions' at the top of the page. On the drop-down, click on 'General Settings'. Select the 'Edit Ignore List' and it's job done :aok:

[SloopJB]

Tip. Click on the 'Forum Actions' at the top of the page. On the drop-down, click on 'General Settings'. Select the 'Edit Ignore List' and it's job done :aok:
Cheers Srergey,

Does that just leave the facts on display?


The countdown clock was directly based on a statement on the HoMFC website - no speculation or guesswork involved on the part of Hibs.net.

Was that where they said there would be consequences?

[The Green Goblin]

There were two count down meters to their last ever game.

I find it interesting reading but there is real work to be done filtering out the rubbish from the facts, there is fun to be had poking fun but what I'm finding is sometimes the fun poking, made up bits and guesswork is taken as gospel and grows arms and legs. Wages not paid this month? dunno, but hit them with a 6 point penalty, then the discussion grows how hard they should be hit for their cheating. The info might just be wrong, so yes a discussion can be had about possible sanctions but the tone of the posts suggest they are guilty now.

Cav posted the basis of the thread which is about right but go back to the begining and read again. I got 4 pages into the 249 so far and found enough to back up what I'm saying.

Sometimes, it isn't much of a discussion board but sometimes people take a different view. Some question that view which is the best reaction, others challenge, ridicule and/or insult.

Sometimes, a different opinion makes it a good discussion board.

I've had my own opinions challenged and in a couple of occasions my opinions have changed because of the discussion, that's evidence of a great discussion board.

Caversham Green posted a bullet pointed sequence of reasons/facts in response to your original post, but you didn't acknowledge or reply to it, yet you are simultaneously criticising the lack of debate based on facts on this thread. A bit unfair imho.

[#FromTheCapital]

Why should a player be made to miss out on potential income from appearance and bonus money?
I reckon the players union would be down on this like a ton of bricks.

In this case it serves the players right for signing for h****s in the first place when everyone knows how much of a shambles they are financially. I have no sympathy for any football player missing out on bonus money, they are paid far too much anyway.

The players union probably would have something to say about this though and I don't think this type of punishment will happen as much as some of us would like it to. I think a points deduction will be the next punishment for them if they fail to pay again this season.

[SloopJB]

Caversham Green posted a bullet pointed sequence of reasons/facts in response to your original post, but you didn't acknowledge or reply to it, yet you are simultaneously criticising the lack of debate based on facts on this thread. A bit unfair imho.

Ok, I'll reply to it.
Acknowledged in the thread.
It will take a while as 249 pages to go through to select the posts required.
I have 1 A4 sheet just now after 4 pages.

Thank you

[The Green Goblin]

Ok, I'll reply to it.
Acknowledged in the thread.
It will take a while as 249 pages to go through to select the posts required.
I have 1 A4 sheet just now after 4 pages.

Thank you

It was less than ten posts back, so not such a big effort required.

What I don't understand here is, if this thread annoys you so much (and it really seems to bother you, judging by your replies), why don't you just ignore it, or not read it? Genuine question.

[cocopops1875]

Ok, I'll reply to it.
Acknowledged in the thread.
It will take a while as 249 pages to go through to select the posts required.
I have 1 A4 sheet just now after 4 pages.

Thank you

Just out of interest WHAT ARE YOU LOOKING FOR :confused: you just seem to be bumping your gums but not really making a clear point ? State what you actually want to read and maybe someone will give you the info

[Just Alf]

I find it interesting reading but there is real work to be done filtering out the rubbish from the facts, there is fun to be had poking fun but what I'm finding is sometimes the fun poking, made up bits and guesswork is taken as gospel and grows arms and legs. Wages not paid this month? dunno, but hit them with a 6 point penalty, then the discussion grows how hard they should be hit for their cheating. The info might just be wrong, so yes a discussion can be had about possible sanctions but the tone of the posts suggest they are guilty now.

.

On phone so apologies for deleting part of yer post instead of highlighting this bit!


David Southern (spelling?), admitted at a meeting a couple of weeks ago that Feb's wages are in jeopardy, over on broke back they've put this as the key reason why the next he game is a 4 pointer in the LP scheme. The Yams probably have enough dosh to operate until the end of the season what with the wee cup final etc the issue is around cash flow.... ie how much they have to hand right now to pay bills/wages as they come due.

All above is derived from broke back and a close friend who works at the PBS.

GGTTH

[greenlex]

There were two count down meters to their last ever game.

I find it interesting reading but there is real work to be done filtering out the rubbish from the facts, there is fun to be had poking fun but what I'm finding is sometimes the fun poking, made up bits and guesswork is taken as gospel and grows arms and legs. Wages not paid this month? dunno, but hit them with a 6 point penalty, then the discussion grows how hard they should be hit for their cheating. The info might just be wrong, so yes a discussion can be had about possible sanctions but the tone of the posts suggest they are guilty now.

Cav posted the basis of the thread which is about right but go back to the begining and read again. I got 4 pages into the 249 so far and found enough to back up what I'm saying.

Sometimes, it isn't much of a discussion board but sometimes people take a different view. Some question that view which is the best reaction, others challenge, ridicule and/or insult.

Sometimes, a different opinion makes it a good discussion board.

I've had my own opinions challenged and in a couple of occasions my opinions have changed because of the discussion, that's evidence of a great discussion board.
You are getting your knickers in an awfull twist and are far too interested in sticking up for the smelly yams. I reckon you are one of them. Shame on you using that username.

[Caversham Green]

Was that where they said there would be consequences?

No, it was where they said:


Without the support of fans there is......a real risk that Heart of Midlothian could possibly play its last game [on] 17 November [2012] against St Mirren.

The countdown was to that game.

[PatHead]

Sloop JB you say there are no facts -

Hearts fans are really concerned about surviving and needing a cash input according to Kickback. Their MD (or CEO) David Southern says they need an extra £200,000 to see out the season and will be selling season tickets early to make this happen. They have no players left to sell as any sellable assets are out of contract unless they can squeeze one off to Russia.
Romanov has stated he will not fund a penny more. In May they receive a lump sum from The Rangers which will pay the tax instalment due then but nothing else. They managed to raise £1m after begging to their fans that they would go out of business within weeks and their last game would be against Dundee. The club has been up for sale for a couple of years with no serious bids. Their main stand is a crumbling wreck. Fatty Foulkes and Gary no medals Mackay are not even pretending their is light at the end of the tunnel.These are all facts, not speculation.

As the season ticket money is already spent by the beginning of next season, how do you suggest they survive?

They will be rid of many of the high earners but next season they have regular instalments of unpaid tax and council tax due in addition to the outgoings they cannot afford just now. The supporters can only be taken for a mug once and won't come up with the money again. Oh and by the way their banking facility is about to be re-negotiated as it expires in the summer with their previous benefactor unlikely to be in a position to bully the bank into extending it. (Shades of David Murray and the Bank of Scotland here)

Sorry if we are having fun/pleasure about speculating to their downfall but the outlook is rather overcast from their perspective. I shall continue to log into Hibs.net every day with the hope that in the not too distant future a thread will be headed

Hearts ****ed (official) lets party like there is no tomorrow

[Dr Hackenbush]

It is certainly hard to understand what Hearts are up to at any given time.......Does anyone else think that they may be trying to limp along to the split before going into administration? I have a horrible suspicion that if they reach the top 6 then that is what they may do. Presumably they would finish no lower than sixth despite the points deduction?

[SloopJB]

No, it was where they said:


The countdown was to that game.

So the guess was that the support would not be forthcoming, yet they are still playing.


Sloop JB you say there are no facts -



Excellent example.
I said the facts were hard to find amongst the rubbish.

[cocopops1875]

Sloop JB you say there are no facts -

Hearts fans are really concerned about surviving and needing a cash input according to Kickback. Their MD (or CEO) David Southern says they need an extra £200,000 to see out the season and will be selling season tickets early to make this happen. They have no players left to sell as any sellable assets are out of contract unless they can squeeze one off to Russia.
Romanov has stated he will not fund a penny more. In May they receive a lump sum from The Rangers which will pay the tax instalment due then but nothing else. They managed to raise £1m after begging to their fans that they would go out of business within weeks and their last game would be against Dundee. The club has been up for sale for a couple of years with no serious bids. Their main stand is a crumbling wreck. Fatty Foulkes and Gary no medals Mackay are not even pretending their is light at the end of the tunnel.These are all facts, not speculation.

As the season ticket money is already spent by the beginning of next season, how do you suggest they survive?

They will be rid of many of the high earners but next season they have regular instalments of unpaid tax and council tax due in addition to the outgoings they cannot afford just now. The supporters can only be taken for a mug once and won't come up with the money again. Oh and by the way their banking facility is about to be re-negotiated as it expires in the summer with their previous benefactor unlikely to be in a position to bully the bank into extending it. (Shades of David Murray and the Bank of Scotland here)

Sorry if we are having fun/pleasure about speculating to their downfall but the outlook is rather overcast from their perspective. I shall continue to log into Hibs.net every day with the hope that in the not too distant future a thread will be headed

Hearts ****ed (official) lets party like there is no tomorrow

Aye Me Too :top marks:flag::flag::thumbsup::hnet:

[Diclonius]

The way it's going if Hearts' demise gets any worse they might actually win the treble.:rolleyes:

Yeah, all this winning trophies and stuff like that is totally gonna be worth it because they're definitely definitely gonna go bust any time soon or they'll definitely sell all their players. It's only a matter of time. Like it's been a matter of time for about six years.

Everyone knows that they'll come out of this fine. None of this "oh they should keep their top players because they'll just take more money off them." What money? They don't have any. They just use other people's money, which they will recieve absolutely zero repercussions for. Ones that actually matter, anyway.

Maybe if the SPL and SFA had some sort of spine it might be different, but they don't and it won't. You can bet any money that the minute these "sanctions" are lifted - which they will be at the end of the season, it'll be back to offering twice the wages of any other SPL club - including those who oh so conveniently happen to be our top targets - and then saying "actually ehhh we're not going to pay you them". And the authorities will do nothing.

I'd rather they lost their best players. Therefore they'll be weaker on the park, and therefore we will be able to beat them more, and stand a better chance of finishing above them. That's all that matters to me, as like this SPL "armageddon" bollocks, the Hearts "armageddon" will not happen.

[VickMackie]

There were two count down meters to their last ever game.

I find it interesting reading but there is real work to be done filtering out the rubbish from the facts, there is fun to be had poking fun but what I'm finding is sometimes the fun poking, made up bits and guesswork is taken as gospel and grows arms and legs. Wages not paid this month? dunno, but hit them with a 6 point penalty, then the discussion grows how hard they should be hit for their cheating. The info might just be wrong, so yes a discussion can be had about possible sanctions but the tone of the posts suggest they are guilty now.

Cav posted the basis of the thread which is about right but go back to the begining and read again. I got 4 pages into the 249 so far and found enough to back up what I'm saying.

Sometimes, it isn't much of a discussion board but sometimes people take a different view. Some question that view which is the best reaction, others challenge, ridicule and/or insult.

Sometimes, a different opinion makes it a good discussion board.

I've had my own opinions challenged and in a couple of occasions my opinions have changed because of the discussion, that's evidence of a great discussion board.

Even after all these pages I still find it highly amusing and informational.

I can tell you now that I know more about the state of hearts finances than any hearts fan I know.

Might be a bit sad but I bet most yams don't even know who holds security of their stadium with 'the best atmosphere' in Scottish football.

[SloopJB]

You are getting your knickers in an awfull twist and are far too interested in sticking up for the smelly yams. I reckon you are one of them. Shame on you using that username.

Another excellent example.
I admit I do like to have the facts.
You have turned that into me sticking up for the 'smelly yams', which follows into what else I was saying about those that challenge and those that insult.
You are an example poster I can point to as a fact to back up a previous statement.

[Caversham Green]

So the guess was that the support would not be forthcoming, yet they are still playing.

No, it was a direct reaction to that statement - also known as noising up the yams. My guess (there you go, you can have that one) is that it wasn't intended to be serious but it was lot of fun for a the vast majority of Hibbies and, more relevant to our argument - the outcome was feasible, not guesswork.

Your argument is that this whole thread is based on 'guessology' etc. my point is that a large part of it (and the most interesting and enjoyable part as far as I'm concerned) is based on absolute and irrefutable fact.

[Saorsa]

I shall continue to log into Hibs.net every day with the hope that in the not too distant future a thread will be headed

Hearts ****ed (official) lets party like there is no tomorrow:top marks

[greenlex]

Another excellent example.
I admit I do like to have the facts.
You have turned that into me sticking up for the 'smelly yams', which follows into what else I was saying about those that challenge and those that insult.
You are an example poster I can point to as a fact to back up a previous statement.
And again untwist yer knickers. Whats the fascination with this thread? You are spending am awful lot of time on it for a non yam looking for facts.

[SloopJB]

And again untwist yer knickers. Whats the fascination with this thread? You are spending am awful lot of time on it for a non yam looking for facts.
Just wow.
Do you really think there something wrong looking for the facts.
There was a recent freedom if information request to EDC about rates payments. how did that sit?
Check through my posts on this thread, very few up to the point I mentioned the rubbish and the facts.
No fascination.

[cocopops1875]

Just wow.
Do you really think there something wrong looking for the facts.
There was a recent freedom if information request to EDC about rates payments. how did that sit?
Check through my posts on this thread, very few up to the point I mentioned the rubbish and the facts.
No fascination.

they are due money FACT:thumbsup:
Or owe money or over-due money
THEY HUVNAE PAID THE MONEY

[Sergey]

Just wow.
Do you really think there something wrong looking for the facts.
There was a recent freedom if information request to EDC about rates payments. how did that sit?
Check through my posts on this thread, very few up to the point I mentioned the rubbish and the facts.
No fascination.

SloopJB - Do yourself a favour and log-off of hibs.net for a while as you're making yourself look like a bit of a fanny, if the truth be known, and it's clearly obvious that the written word isn't your forté but selective quoting and reading is.

For your clarity....that's a fact.

[greenlex]

Just wow.
Do you really think there something wrong looking for the facts.
There was a recent freedom if information request to EDC about rates payments. how did that sit?
Check through my posts on this thread, very few up to the point I mentioned the rubbish and the facts.
No fascination.
Get over yourself FFS. Theres facts there and there is total bollocks too. Its a fitba message board for Hibs fans not the oracle. Still think theres a whiff aboot ye. Fact or bollocks? The day I need facts to lay into the merricks will be a long time coming.

[Caversham Green]

Yeah, all this winning trophies and stuff like that is totally gonna be worth it because they're definitely definitely gonna go bust any time soon or they'll definitely sell all their players. It's only a matter of time. Like it's been a matter of time for about six years.

Everyone knows that they'll come out of this fine. None of this "oh they should keep their top players because they'll just take more money off them." What money? They don't have any. They just use other people's money, which they will recieve absolutely zero repercussions for. Ones that actually matter, anyway.

Maybe if the SPL and SFA had some sort of spine it might be different, but they don't and it won't. You can bet any money that the minute these "sanctions" are lifted - which they will be at the end of the season, it'll be back to offering twice the wages of any other SPL club - including those who oh so conveniently happen to be our top targets - and then saying "actually ehhh we're not going to pay you them". And the authorities will do nothing.

I'd rather they lost their best players. Therefore they'll be weaker on the park, and therefore we will be able to beat them more, and stand a better chance of finishing above them. That's all that matters to me, as like this SPL "armageddon" bollocks, the Hearts "armageddon" will not happen.

On selling all their players, out of their cup final starting 11 they've lost McGowan, Suso, Black, Skacel and Elliott - they've also lost Templeton, Beattie and Paulo Sergio. All that for about a tenth of what Hibs got for Scott Brown alone and to replace them they've brought in a clown and two kids and they've put a pair of specs on a c0ck and called it the manager. Zaliukas might also go if he hasn't been crocked too badly yesterday - that's starting to look like a fire sale to me.

On using other people's money, you can only do that for so long before 'other people' go bust or twig that they're being made a fool of - up till now the 'other people' has been Vlad but one or both of those things has happened and they don't have many 'other people' to call on now.

What the SPL/SFA do isn't particularly relevant - they're not going to be able to offer big wages for the foreseeable future.

[Iggy Pope]

Another excellent example.
I admit I do like to have the facts.
You have turned that into me sticking up for the 'smelly yams', which follows into what else I was saying about those that challenge and those that insult.
You are an example poster I can point to as a fact to back up a previous statement.

I like your style of posting SJB.
I think I'm right in saying it was William Burroughs that developed this method of slicing up words randomly, throwing them in the air and writing down the results?
He was out his nut on heroin though.

[SloopJB]

I like your style of posting SJB.
I think I'm right in saying it was William Burroughs that developed this method of slicing up words randomly, throwing them in the air and writing down the results?
He was out his nut on heroin though.

I don't get what you mean

[Ozyhibby]

People just need to relax and have a little bit more Patience. It will happen and I think it will be soon. I'm just not sure whether it will be events in Lithuania or here that will bring them down but it will happen. Have faith.

[PatHead]

Tell you what Sloop. Rather than troll through 250 pages tell us the facts you know and we will tell you what you have missed.

Then tell us why they will survive (Cos they always have isn't good enough, ask a fan of the team that used to come from Govan and were reformed last year.) After that when you still aren't listening we will ignore you.

[TrinityHibs]

SloopJB - Do yourself a favour and log-off of hibs.net for a while as you're making yourself look like a bit of a fanny, if the truth be known, and it's clearly obvious that the written word isn't your forté but selective quoting and reading is.

For your clarity....that's a fact.

That does it for me:agree:

[Treadstone]

I know its from a couple of days ago but what a guy Vlad is...

http://www.lithuaniabasketball.com/news-1060-ukio-bankas-hands-zalgiris-financial-injection.html

Oh wait a minute, a day later.

http://www.lithuaniabasketball.com/news-1061-romanov-leaving-deep-in-debt-zalgiris.html

And loving the Twitter exchange here.

https://twitter.com/LithuaniaBasket/status/299914439086444544

I also like the last tweet in this exchange.

https://twitter.com/LithuaniaBasket/status/299926874249887745

There is also a cracking photo of Vlad on the guys Twitter homepage.

[PatHead]

I know its from a couple of days ago but what a guy Vlad is...

http://www.lithuaniabasketball.com/news-1060-ukio-bankas-hands-zalgiris-financial-injection.html

Oh wait a minute, a day later.

http://www.lithuaniabasketball.com/news-1061-romanov-leaving-deep-in-debt-zalgiris.html

Love the final lines "Later on he got into a quarrel with representatives of other sports and demonstratively left the meeting."

[grunt]

Oh wait a minute, a day later.

http://www.lithuaniabasketball.com/news-1061-romanov-leaving-deep-in-debt-zalgiris.html


Later on he got into a quarrel with representatives of other sports and demonstratively left the meeting. Vlad, what a guy! Edit - snap, Pathead!

[hibee_nation]

I don't get what you mean

Here's an example for you

TFYL :aok:

[greenginger]

Its Yam pay time coming up again. February is a 28 day month so will the wages be due on Thursday 14th or the usual 16th which is Saturday.

Its sort of like Christmas Day every month :greengrin and one day the present we have been waiting for will arrive. :thumbsup:

[leither17]

And loving the Twitter exchange here.

https://twitter.com/LithuaniaBasket/status/299914439086444544

I also like the last tweet in this exchange.

https://twitter.com/LithuaniaBasket/status/299926874249887745

There is also a cracking photo of Vlad on the guys Twitter homepage.



https://twitter.com/LithuaniaBasket/status/296361384265019392/photo/1

[ScottB]

https://twitter.com/LithuaniaBasket/status/296361384265019392/photo/1

Ironically I'll be doing much the same when he flushes Hearts down the toilet...

[Kojock]

and they've put a pair of specs on a c0ck and called it the manager.

What a brilliant description, made me laugh. :greengrin:thumbsup:

[Lix]

Ukio in administration!

[marinello59]

Ukio in administration!

BOOM ! :thumbsup:

[Oscar T Grouch]

Ukio in administration!

Sauce, link??

[Lucius Apuleius]

Nothing to see here, move along!!!!


:flag::flag::flag:

[Lix]

Just trying to get the full text .... It's a beaut! :greengrin
Ps on bloomberg

[andrew70]

What effect will this have on hearts? If any? Also is it not Ukio that basically owns Tynie?

[Lix]

BN 02/12 11:40 *UKIO BANKAS TEMPORARILY SUSPENDED, ADMINISTRATOR NAMED




+------------------------------------------------------------------------------+


The operation of Ūkio bankas is temporarily suspended, a temporary administrator is appointed
2013-02-12 11:38:33.677 GMT


The operation of Ūkio bankas is temporarily suspended, a temporary administrator is appointed


NASDAQ OMX Vilnius
Announcement from the exchange


The operation of Ūkio bankas is temporarily suspended, a temporary
administrator is appointed


Vilnius, Lithuania, 2013-02-12 12:38 CET (GLOBE NEWSWIRE) -- Having assessed
the inspection report, as well as other data gathered for supervision purposes,
and aiming to protect the interests of the general public, depositors and other
customers, the Board of the Bank of Lithuania declared the temporary
restriction of the operation of AB Ūkio bankas. A temporary administrator,
appointed by the Board, is authorized to propose decisions that would enable
ensuring of the compliance of obligations to the bank’s clients.


The decision of the Board of the Bank of Lithuania to restrict the bank’s
operation was made after assessing the risky tendencies of Ūkio bankas in
recent years, actions of shareholders that were harmful to the bank,
non-compliance with the instructions of the Supervision Service, and the
consequent rising threat to the stable and reliable operation of the Bank. The
decision was approved once it was clear that the other statutory enforcement
measures would not be sufficient in ensuring the security of the interests of
depositors and the general public.


During the inspections of Ūkio bankas in December 2012–January 2013 it was
established that the bank performed risky activities, inappropriately assessed
credit risks, in not all cases made sure of the borrower’s possibilities to
fulfil debt obligations, didn’t form enough specific provisions for problem
loans, applied unacceptable methods of portraying transactions in accounting,
and also violated prudential legal acts.


Having assessed the data collected during the inspection, it was established
that, in forming suitable specific provisions for problem loans and properly
evaluating the other assets, the net value of Ūkio bankas would be less than
was declared in the reports presented to the Supervision Service, and the bank
wouldn’t perform the prudential requirements related to the capital. In
addition, based on the data presented to the Bank of Lithuania, on 12 February
Ūkio bankas no longer complies with the liquidity ratio.


The shareholders of Ūkio bankas and the management did not fulfil the loan
restructuring plan, disregarded the Bank of Lithuania’s order to essentially
reduce the part of the loan portfolio related to the main shareholder, or they
only formally complied. Particularly the loans issued to companies related to
the main shareholder make up the largest part of the problem loan portfolio.


Ever after several repeated demands, the Bank of Lithuania did not receive data
that could prove that Ūkio bankas’ main shareholders are ready to ensure
reliable management of the bank and had real opportunities to strengthen the
bank’s capital and remove the other deficiencies in the bank’s operation.


The deficiencies in the bank’s operation and violations of legal acts have been
established more than once. However, as was revealed in the information
collected during the last inspection, the earlier requirements set for the bank
to improve the quality of its assets, strengthen the capital base, and curtail
operation risks, were not fulfilled.


Having assessed all the circumstances related to the operation of Ūkio bankas,
in observance of the Republic of Lithuania’s Law on Banks and aiming for
stability of the financial system, the Board of the Bank of Lithuania adopted
the decision to announce the restriction of the activities of AB Ūkio bankas
and appointed a temporary administrator, Adomas Audickas.


According to the Law on Banks, the administrator has the function of the bank’s
supervisory board, the management and administration. He is authorized to
assess in detail the financial standing of Ūkio bankas and carry out adequate
and effective actions to protect the interests of the bank’s depositors and
customers. Taking into account the need to find a solution to the problem as
soon as possible, the administrator is instructed to present to the Bank of
Lithuania his conclusion and proposals no later than six days from the date of
taking the decision.


Temporarily, until it is decided what means will be used to find a solution to
the problems of Ūkio bankas, the bank will not be providing financial services.


The Bank of Lithuania stresses that the enforcement measures applied to Ūkio
bankas are solely related to this bank only. All other banks operating in
Lithuania and foreign bank branches implement prudential requirements and there
is no risk to their stability. The obligations of Ūkio bankas to other banks
and credit unions operating in the country are insignificant.






The Bank of Lithuania
Public Relations Division

[Oscar T Grouch]

Thnx Lix, great news on a cr@p day :thumbsup:

[Thecat23]

Is this good news or bad news for Hearts? The way I see it, don't Hearts owe them millions? If so could this now be written off? I'm not clued up with all this.

[EdinMike]

Is this good news or bad news for Hearts? The way I see it, don't Hearts owe them millions? If so could this now be written off? I'm not clued up with all this.

Was about to say the same thing, what does this really mean, If anything !?

[blackpoolhibs]

I'm guessing its not good news lol.

[andrew70]

Is this good news or bad news for Hearts? The way I see it, don't Hearts owe them millions? If so could this now be written off? I'm not clued up with all this.

Am not sure either but given its the bank that's went into Admin rather than the club, then I think the banks administrators would be well within their rights to call in all their debts to assume the greatest return for whoever they are due money to.

[JeMeSouviens]

What effect will this have on hearts? If any? Also is it not Ukio that basically owns Tynie?

No, it's UBIG that effectively owns Hearts and has a security over Tiny. It's separate from but linked to the bank. This might not be the killer blow but it's got to be good news. :wink:

[Russell The Dug]

How much debt do the tramps owe the bank and not the investment company? Does the bank hold security of the pink dump?

Business has erm certainly picked up.

[Russell The Dug]

No, it's UBIG that effectively owns Hearts and has a security over Tiny. It's separate from but linked to the bank. This might not be the killer blow but it's got to be good news. :wink:


Was Tynie not transferred from the group to the bank recently?

Call in the debt mother ****ers. Call in the debt.

[andrew70]

No, it's UBIG that effectively owns Hearts and has a security over Tiny. It's separate from but linked to the bank. This might not be the killer blow but it's got to be good news. :wink:

Thanks for this. Appreciated.

[EH6 Hibby]

Given that the ground and club are only worth what someone is willing to pay for it, I can't help thinking this is going to be good for them. They will get rid of their crippling debt and Romanov in one go and one of the groups already mentioned will pick the ground and the club on the cheap.

[Biggie]

oh boy oh boy:hyper:

[JeMeSouviens]

Given that the ground and club are only worth what someone is willing to pay for it, I can't help thinking this is going to be good for them. They will get rid of their crippling debt and Romanov in one go and one of the groups already mentioned will pick the ground and the club on the cheap.

Yeah, but this ground isn't in the middle of a *****hole part of Weegieland. It might not have CALA drooling over it any more but it's got to be worth more as real estate than continuing use as a football stadium.

[monktonharp]

there could be trouble ahead:singing:

[Sergey]

When are their wages due?

:faf::faf:

[monktonharp]

Yeah, but this ground isn't in the middle of a *****hole part of Weegieland. It might not have CALA drooling over it any more but it's got to be worth more as real estate than continuing use as a football stadium.are you forgetting, there will be a huge new stand with a hotel complex attached to it one of these days:cb

[EH6 Hibby]

Yeah, but this ground isn't in the middle of a *****hole part of Weegieland. It might not have CALA drooling over it any more but it's got to be worth more as real estate than continuing use as a football stadium.

Really really really hope you're right.

[CyberSauzee]

The Lithuanian Robert Maxwell's house of cards is crumbling. Good news to lift last night's gloom.

[greenginger]

When are their wages due?

:faf::faf:

Thursday 14th if due in the middle of the month, normally meant to be paid on 16th Saturday.

Unless Hearts have cash in a separate bank or a safe at the PBS they really should stop trading as they will be incurring debts they have no means of satisfying.

Admin. here as well ? Cav./Cwg/ other learned people Hibs.Net need you. :greengrin

[Kato]

No, it's UBIG that effectively owns Hearts and has a security over Tiny. It's separate from but linked to the bank. This might not be the killer blow but it's got to be good news. :wink:

UBIG transferred 6.5M squids worth of their security over Tynie to UKIO a few weeks ago.

[Treadstone]

Unless Hearts have cash in a separate bank or a safe at the PBS they really should stop trading as they will be incurring debts they have no means of satisfying.

I'm sure someone was keeping Share issue ready cash in a suitcase just before Christmas.

[Baldy Foghorn]

Tick Tock......

Well done Vlad, you are playing a blinder:greengrin

[Sergey]

I'm sure someone was keeping Share issue ready cash in a suitcase just before Christmas.

Those will be the new shares that have yet to be lodged at Companies House?

It looks like Vlad's parting gift was to rob the fans of circa £1,000,000 in cash :thumbsup:

[blackpoolhibs]

I can't understand why the bank did not just bake a few cakes, that normally works for companies in trouble?

[JeMeSouviens]

UBIG transferred 6.5M squids worth of their security over Tynie to UKIO a few weeks ago.

Ooh, I missed that. :aok:

http://www.jamesmaybe.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/brian_mccarty-squid.jpg

[Hibee87]

Not 100% sure but did the big huns not go into admin on valentines day last year? wonder if we'll have a repeat in 2 days time :devil:

[MacBean]

NASDAQ announcement link for anyone who is interested:

https://newsclient.omxgroup.com/cdsPublic/viewDisclosure.action?disclosureId=541374&messageId=666870

Link for above copied statement:
http://www.finanznachrichten.de/nachrichten-2013-02/25955318-nasdaq-omx-vilnius-the-operation-of-ukio-bankas-is-temporarily-suspended-a-temporary-administrator-is-appointed-252.htm

Interestingly they are the most active in the NASDAQ shares trades. Volume of 86 trades, nearest if 47.

http://www.nasdaqomxbaltic.com/market/?lang=en

[Lix]

Ooh .... Fraud probe started now!

covers the period 2005/2012.

wonder if our pink chums will be involved?

[MacBean]

V. Vasiliauskas: The priority of the Bank of Lithuania—continuity of the banking operations of Ūkio bankasVilnius, Lithuania, 2013-02-12 12:48 CET (GLOBE NEWSWIRE) -- The Board of the Bank of Lithuania considers its highest priority the restructuring of Ūkio bankas that would best guarantee further fulfilling of obligations to its clients, and would have the least influence on public finances. Such a provision was given to the temporary bank administrator, who has been ordered to assess, in no more than six days, the possibilities and means to restore the bank’s activities
“A lot will depend on the actual financial standing of the bank, which will be registered by the administrator and the auditors who inspect the bank, but our priority is clear—continuity of the operation of the bank in fulfilling obligations to its clients and ensuring that the restructuring would be the most effective, rational and cheapest means for the state in solving the problem,” said Vitas Vasiliauskas, the Chairman of the Board of the Bank of Lithuania, after a meeting with the temporary administrator of Ūkio bankas.
The Laws of the Republic of Lithuania lay down plenty of means to strengthen the stability of the financial system. The Republic of Lithuania Law on Financial Sustainability and the Law on Banks provide possibilities for the banks to render government guarantees, to transfer the problematic bank’s assets and obligations to another bank operating in Lithuania. The latter measure was adopted on 17 November 2011, when the Seimas approved the appropriate amendments to the Republic of Lithuania Law on Banks.
In order to find the fastest way of solving this problem, the Bank of Lithuania intends to immediately begin consultations with other banks regarding their participation in the restructuring of Ūkio bankas.
Transferring of obligations and assets to another bank will be implemented if the administrator’s detailed analysis will show that such means of restructuring are the most economical and rational.
On 12 February the Board of the Bank of Lithuania authorised Adomas Audickas, the temporary administrator, to examine and assess the financial standing of Ūkio bankas, the possible means of re-establishing the stability and reliability of the operation of the bank, and solutions to the bank’s problems. The Bank of Lithuania must be presented with a conclusion and proposals, along with interim financial statements from the assessment of the financial standing. The conclusion and proposals, inter alia, must provide a comparative feasibility analysis, the likely expenses and benefits of the possible means of re-establishing the stability and reliability of the operation of the bank and the effective implementation of solutions for solving the bank's other problems.
The Bank of Lithuania has indicated that the administrator’s conclusions on the re-establishment of the operation of Ūkio bankas must be presented within six days of being appointed. Taking into account the need to find a solution to the problem of Ūkio bankas in the most operative way, the Board of the Bank of Lithuania today called for the temporary administrator to present his conclusions and proposals as soon as possible.
The Bank of Lithuania
Public Relations Division

NASDAQ OMX
Baltic Market
Issuer Services
+370 5 272 1705
www.nasdaqomxbaltic.com (http://www.nasdaqomxbaltic.com/)

[MacBean]

V. Vasiliauskas: The priority of the Bank of Lithuania—continuity of the banking operations of Ūkio bankas

Vilnius, Lithuania, 2013-02-12 12:48 CET (GLOBE NEWSWIRE) -- The Board of the Bank of Lithuania considers its highest priority the restructuring of Ūkio bankas that would best guarantee further fulfilling of obligations to its clients, and would have the least influence on public finances. Such a provision was given to the temporary bank administrator, who has been ordered to assess, in no more than six days, the possibilities and means to restore the bank’s activities
“A lot will depend on the actual financial standing of the bank, which will be registered by the administrator and the auditors who inspect the bank, but our priority is clear—continuity of the operation of the bank in fulfilling obligations to its clients and ensuring that the restructuring would be the most effective, rational and cheapest means for the state in solving the problem,” said Vitas Vasiliauskas, the Chairman of the Board of the Bank of Lithuania, after a meeting with the temporary administrator of Ūkio bankas.
The Laws of the Republic of Lithuania lay down plenty of means to strengthen the stability of the financial system. The Republic of Lithuania Law on Financial Sustainability and the Law on Banks provide possibilities for the banks to render government guarantees, to transfer the problematic bank’s assets and obligations to another bank operating in Lithuania. The latter measure was adopted on 17 November 2011, when the Seimas approved the appropriate amendments to the Republic of Lithuania Law on Banks.
In order to find the fastest way of solving this problem, the Bank of Lithuania intends to immediately begin consultations with other banks regarding their participation in the restructuring of Ūkio bankas.
Transferring of obligations and assets to another bank will be implemented if the administrator’s detailed analysis will show that such means of restructuring are the most economical and rational.
On 12 February the Board of the Bank of Lithuania authorised Adomas Audickas, the temporary administrator, to examine and assess the financial standing of Ūkio bankas, the possible means of re-establishing the stability and reliability of the operation of the bank, and solutions to the bank’s problems. The Bank of Lithuania must be presented with a conclusion and proposals, along with interim financial statements from the assessment of the financial standing. The conclusion and proposals, inter alia, must provide a comparative feasibility analysis, the likely expenses and benefits of the possible means of re-establishing the stability and reliability of the operation of the bank and the effective implementation of solutions for solving the bank's other problems.
The Bank of Lithuania has indicated that the administrator’s conclusions on the re-establishment of the operation of Ūkio bankas must be presented within six days of being appointed. Taking into account the need to find a solution to the problem of Ūkio bankas in the most operative way, the Board of the Bank of Lithuania today called for the temporary administrator to present his conclusions and proposals as soon as possible.
The Bank of Lithuania
Public Relations Division

NASDAQ OMX
Baltic Market
Issuer Services
+370 5 272 1705
www.nasdaqomxbaltic.com (http://www.nasdaqomxbaltic.com/)



Bit in bold is what got me...:cb

[EdinMike]

Not 100% sure but did the big huns not go into admin on valentines day last year? wonder if we'll have a repeat in 2 days time :devil:

Beat me to it :pray:

[Mikey]

It could be that the small businesses around Edinburgh and the Lothians that have been waiting patiently for their money have missed the boat now. I wonder if we'll see a run of claims just so they have something legal to fall back on.

The big winners here will be Blacklocks :greengrin

[Baldy Foghorn]

I can't understand why the bank did not just bake a few cakes, that normally works for companies in trouble?

:greengrin:greengrin

[Sergey]

It could be that the small businesses around Edinburgh and the Lothians that have been waiting patiently for their money have missed the boat now. I wonder if we'll see a run of claims just so they have something legal to fall back on.

The big winners here will be Blacklocks :greengrin

Mikey - I can't see any way how the yams can avoid administration now, as the administrator simply isn't going to pump cash into a failing business/black hole. This months wages won't get paid and the winding-up orders will be piling in as I type.

I'm off out to buy some bunting.

[Mikey]

Mikey - I can't see any way how the yams can avoid administration now, as the administrator simply isn't going to pump cash into a failing business/black hole. This months wages won't get paid and the winding-up orders will be piling in as I type.

I'm off out to buy some bunting.

Just think how much bunting you'll be able to buy when they finish bottom :greengrin

[Hibercelona]

It seems like great news on the face of it, but won't this just mean that Vlad is under more pressure to get Hertz off his hands?

He may be pressured into doing a deal with the devil.

[DaveF]

Mikey - I can't see any way how the yams can avoid administration now, as the administrator simply isn't going to pump cash into a failing business/black hole. This months wages won't get paid and the winding-up orders will be piling in as I type.

I'm off out to buy some bunting.

I guess we'll know by Monday if that's happened or not. There is the possibility that UBIG could wire them the money I suppose?

[GreenCastle]

Mapping Hearts' finances: Following the money at the Tynecastle club
http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/hearts/201686-mapping-hearts-finances-following-the-money-at-the-tynecastle-club/

[Seveno]

It's hard to see how UBIG can survive now as they are surely what the regulator meant by 'risky investments'.

The administrator will need to protect depositors in the first instance and that will mean cashing in on the security over the PBS.

In our efforts to assist the ordinary depositors, we should set up a scheme whereby we pay to be allowed to drive a bulldozer for a day. Does anyone know if Stephen Dalton is a Hibby ?

[cocopops1875]

SloopJB will be along the now wanting FACTS :greengrin

[Golden Bear]

I'm past caring to be honest.

We've got enough problems of our own and these are the ones that really concern me.

[cabbageandribs1875]

i just cant help but.............

http://ranaarmoush.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/laughing-men.gif

[lord bunberry]

Did I read somewhere that ubig were also in severe financial trouble. If this is the case then the bank going into administration today might be the beginning of the end for the jambos. I get the feeling that the fat lady is clearing her throat


I'm past caring to be honest.

We've got enough problems of our own and these are the ones that really concern me.

Why did you click on this thread then

[Haymaker]

Been here so many times and always disappointed...

... But maybe, just maybe, this time it is over for the mutants.

[truehibernian]

I'm past caring to be honest.

We've got enough problems of our own and these are the ones that really concern me.

Agree 100%. Said it before too, Hibs need Hearts and vice versa. What happens over the road happens - I just want a better, stronger Hibs on the park. We concern ourselves too much with that mob - I love beating them simple as that, so want them to survive. Nowt beats going into a working week having beaten Hearts - plus I know two of the younger coaches who are thoroughly decent guys - it's just their fans I find nauseating at times :-)

[Golden Bear]

Why did you click on this thread then

It's an opinion. I think we're still allowed them.

[One Day Soon]

My question is this - where's that Daffy Duck avatar when you really need it?

[blackpoolhibs]

I'm past caring to be honest.

We've got enough problems of our own and these are the ones that really concern me.

There are problems, and there are problems? Ours are mere moleholes compared to the much bigger molehills across the city.

[Sergey]

Did I read somewhere that ubig were also in severe financial trouble. If this is the case then the bank going into administration today might be the beginning of the end for the jambos. I get the feeling that the fat lady is clearing her throat

I posted this link last week (sorry - it's in Lith)

http://verslas.delfi.lt/verslas/ubig-ikeite-visa-savo-turta.d?id=60596587

The headline reads "UBIG has pledged all its assets"

I don't see them wiring over the Jan/Feb wages for the yams, as they clearly don't have a pot to piss in.

[Seveno]

Over in Yamland, they can't understand the implications but plenty of their 'correspondents' are suggesting a look over here to get the detailed analysis. Pretty certain it is without any sarcasm.

[Craig_in_Prague]

Did I read somewhere that ubig were also in severe financial trouble. If this is the case then the bank going into administration today might be the beginning of the end for the jambos. I get the feeling that the fat lady is clearing her throat

Do you have any real evidence that robbo is a lady?

TBH on my part, I have never followed closely all the UKIO, UBIG & any other parts of the group, but stick me down in the list that hopes Hearts go tits up and fold. Good riddance to bad rubbish.

[EdinMike]

Jambos on Facebook (Clearly in denial or just ignorant)

"The bank has nothing to do with us, won't affect us"

:hyper::scarf::faf:

[EuanH78]

Interesting bit from Lix's post


The shareholders of Ūkio bankas and the management did not fulfil the loan
restructuring plan, disregarded the Bank of Lithuania’s order to essentially
reduce the part of the loan portfolio related to the main shareholder, or they
only formally complied. Particularly the loans issued to companies related to
the main shareholder make up the largest part of the problem loan portfolio.

Sounds like a reference to Vlad's er... empire to me - loss making empire held up by the bank. Not for much longer I suspect

[Treadstone]

Jambos on Facebook (Clearly in denial or just ignorant)

"The bank has nothing to do with us, won't affect us"

:hyper::scarf::faf:


You forgot stupid.

[johnbc70]

If the bank is being restructured then another bank may take on the debt. They could either keep the debt on the same terms, restructure the debt meaning higher interest payments or call it in. Looks like all options are outwith Vlads control. Interesting next few days and weeks ahead.

[Makaveli]

Jambos on Facebook (Clearly in denial or just ignorant)

"The bank has nothing to do with us, won't affect us"

:hyper::scarf::faf:

There is "No real direct link between Ukio & HMFC" according to Mark Donaldson.

:rolleyes:

[EdinMike]

You forgot stupid.

I didn't want to be too mean :wink:

Anyway.. If I knew you were dieing...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=honSSKeXME8

[Jim44]

Agree 100%. Said it before too, Hibs need Hearts and vice versa. What happens over the road happens - I just want a better, stronger Hibs on the park. We concern ourselves too much with that mob - I love beating them simple as that, so want them to survive. Nowt beats going into a working week having beaten Hearts - plus I know two of the younger coaches who are thoroughly decent guys - it's just their fans I find nauseating at times :-)

Nah. I'm willing to risk the disappointment of never playing them again. And I'm not up for putting a sympathetic spin on it just because a couple of decent guys work for them. They are a despicable outfit through and through and I for one would happily dance on their grave. Mind you, I don't see it happening and they'll come out of jt smelling of roses as usual.

[GordonHFC]

There is "No real direct link between Ukio & HMFC" according to Mark Donaldson.

:rolleyes:

Is there a pretend one then?

[blackpoolhibs]

There is "No real direct link between Ukio & HMFC" according to Mark Donaldson.

:rolleyes:

That lot are in complete denial. :faf::faf:

[CraigHibee]

amazing :)

as the guiness advert once said


"tick follows tock" :greengrin

[Sergey]

There is "No real direct link between Ukio & HMFC" according to Mark Donaldson.

:rolleyes:



What a pathetic, misinformed quote from an alleged, in-the-know journalist to make.


(It wouldn't surprise me one jot if the PR folks at HoMFC release a statement later today along similar lines)

[Fat Penlon]

There is "No real direct link between Ukio & HMFC" according to Mark Donaldson.

:rolleyes:

Do any of our financial experts know if this is true? Is there any evidence from their annual reports as to their creditors or even who they bank with?

[Gingertosser]

I would suggest Ukios floating charge of £6.8m over Tynecastle IS A DIRECT LINK

[scoopyboy]

There is "No real direct link between Ukio & HMFC" according to Mark Donaldson.

:rolleyes:

Apart from the fact they own Tynecastle.

[CropleyWasGod]

Apart from the fact they own Tynecastle.

Do they?

[green glory]

Is it the case that UKIO not UBIG now have the floating charge over the pink Savile dome?

If so, Saughton Park had better start building ash terracing.

[Oscar T Grouch]

Donaldsons last couple of tweets

Mark Donaldson ‏@Donaldson007
Indirect link to Hearts - since December, Ukio Bankas has owned a company that owns 17 percent of UBIG shares.
Expand
1h

Mark Donaldson ‏@Donaldson007
Ukio Bankas is a business arm of UBIG, just like Hearts is. HMFC debt, on the whole, owed to UBIG. No real direct link between Ukio & HMFC.
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[Joy Zipper]

From Yakback - "Hearts own Tynecastle. If Hearts decide to sell it, it will be to raise funds for Hearts."

I'd say that he's not the sharpest tool in the box.

Look at me - I own a £3 million villa in the south of France. Ok, I have a £2.9 million mortgage on it which I can't pay. If I sell it, can I keep the £3 mil ?

[Makaveli]

Worth re-quoting the Bloomberg article from last week, I feel.

"UBIG, which controls Scottish football team Hearts, on Jan. 8 took advantage of a new Lithuanian law allowing the company to pledge all of its assets as collateral for a purpose it has not disclosed."



Sounds legit. :agree:

[lyonhibs]

Until I see the headline "Heart of Midlothian definitively cease trading and plunge into eternal obscurity" all these debt collection/UKIO etc stories are ripples in a far off ocean as far as I'm concerned.

[Hibee87]

Worth re-quoting the Bloomberg article from last week, I feel.

"UBIG, which controls Scottish football team Hearts, on Jan. 8 took advantage of a new Lithuanian law allowing the company to pledge all of its assets as collateral for a purpose it has not disclosed."



Sounds legit. :agree:


So what does this actually mean? **** all is going to happen in this instances....again?

[HFC 0-7]

Hearing a lot of people talking about lad possibly selling hearts off on the cheap just to get rid but I am not sure he can do it now. If ukio have security over Tynie I am not sure it will be in his powers to do so. I am pretty sure at potential buyers wouldn't rush into a sale either without being sure that vlad has written the debt off.

This surely can't be good news for hearts, if hearts don't have any money left, no bank in the uk would provide overdrafts etc and they will just keep defaulting.

[SunshineOnLeith]

2 floating charges satisfied in full by hearts in the last two days, can't find out whom they were due to though (they've cleared all the bank of Scotland ones over the last month or so).

Still at least one floating charge in effect due to ubig (rather than ukio). Info may be incomplete, only had a cursory glance.

[PatHead]

From Yakback - "Hearts own Tynecastle. If Hearts decide to sell it, it will be to raise funds for Hearts."

I'd say that he's not the sharpest tool in the box.

Look at me - I own a £3 million villa in the south of France. Ok, I have a £2.9 million mortgage on it which I can't pay. If I sell it, can I keep the £3 mil ?

More like If I have a piggery of a stadium in Edinburgh worth between £5m and £7m and have a £28m mortgage on it which I can't pay........

[Lix]

(BN) Lithuanian Lender Ukio Suspended in Latest Baltic Bank Blow
(1)


+------------------------------------------------------------------------------+


Lithuanian Lender Ukio Suspended in Latest Baltic Bank Blow (1)
2013-02-12 14:53:36.930 GMT




(Updates with fraud probe starting in third paragraph,
EBRD in penultimate.)


By Bryan Bradley
Feb. 12 (Bloomberg) -- Lithuania suspended the operations
of Ukio Bankas AB, the nation’s sixth-largest lender by assets,
threatening the existence of a fourth Baltic bank in less than
five years.
Ukio had insufficient capital and liquidity and refused to
stop lending money to companies associated with majority owner
Vladimir Romanov, who also owns Edinburgh soccer club Heart of
Midlothian Plc, the central bank, based in Vilnius, the capital,
said today in an e-mailed statement. Prosecutors said they’d
investigate “suspicious transactions” between 2005-2012.
The central bank’s move follows the demise of Lithuania’s
Snoras Bankas AB, which was declared insolvent and nationalized
in 2011. Its Latvijas Krajbanka AS unit in neighboring Latvia,
where Parex Banka AS needed a government bailout in 2008, was
also shut down. Ukio’s shares have plunged 40 percent since
October amid net losses, concerns about loan quality and probes
into alleged money laundering that the bank denies.
“Bankruptcy is the last option -- our priority is for Ukio
Bankas to continue operating after a restructuring,” central
bank Chairman Vitas Vasiliauskas told reporters today in
Vilnius. “‘All other banks operating in Lithuania and foreign
bank branches implement prudential requirements and there’s no
risk to their stability.”


Shares Halted


The Nasdaq OMX Vilnius stock exchange said today in a
statement that it had suspended trading of Ukio shares at the
central bank’s request. They last traded at 12:58 p.m. in
Vilnius at 0.093 euro each. Aukse Armonaite, a spokeswoman for
Ukio, didn’t answer repeated calls to her mobile phone or e-
mails seeking comment.
Russian-born Romanov owns 64.9 percent of Ukio, which lost
44 million litai ($17 million) in the first nine months of 2012.
Loans to companies related to him comprise the largest part of
Ukio’s problem-loan portfolio, according to the central bank.
“The shareholders and management of Ukio didn’t fulfill
the loan-restructuring plan and disregarded the Bank of
Lithuania’s order to reduce the part of the loan portfolio
related to the main shareholder,” it said in its statement.
The Kaunas-based bank’s situation is better than that of
Snoras, Vasiliauskas said. The central bank appointed Adomas
Audickas, a former deputy economy minister, as temporary
administrator to assess and report on Ukio within six days.


Fraud Probe


Prosecutors started a probe into possible large-scale fraud
at the lender based on information provided by the central bank
covering 2005 to 2012, according to an e-mailed statement today.
Siauliu Bankas, a Lithuanian lender whose biggest
shareholder is the European Bank for Reconstruction and
Development, told the central bank today that it would be
prepared to participate in any possible restructuring of Ukio,
Vasiliauskas said.
The EBRD “is monitoring the situation carefully,” London-
based EBRD spokesman Axel Reiserer said by phone. “We stand by
what we’ve said before about having a firm commitment to support
the Lithuanian banking sector.”
Vasiliauskas said a merger of some sort with Siauliu was
one of three or four possible resolutions to the Ukio situation.

[Oscar T Grouch]

Statement fi their fishy site
Heart of Midlothian FC today issued the following statement in regard to the announcement in Lithuania that Ukio Bankas has entered temporary administration.

Sergejus Fedotovas, director of Hearts, stated: "The Board wishes to make it clear that Heart of Midlothian plc and Ukio Bankas are two separate companies.

"Hearts is majority owned by Ukio Banko Investicine Grupe (UBIG), a multi-national business conglomerate. UBIG is an entirely separate entity and stands alone from Ukio Bankas.

"At a service and operational level, Ukio Bankas does provide the club with some banking services and debt facility and the Board is liaising with Ukio Bankas on these matters.

"The supporters of Hearts can be assured that the Board of the club continues to be diligent in financial matters and we believe that today's events in Lithuania will have very little affect on our day-to-day business."

Now how to I disinfect my PC?

[Joy Zipper]

More like If I have a piggery of a stadium in Edinburgh worth between £5m and £7m and have a £28m mortgage on it which I can't pay........

I was being too kind !

[Caversham Green]

Right, the link between HoMFC, UBIG and Ukio.

HoMFC owe UBIG something in excess of £22m - that is secured on all the assets of HoMFC.
UBIG owe Ukio an undetermined amount in excess of £6.8m.
UBIG have transferred to Ukio £6.8m (plus interest) of the security they hold over HoMFC's assets, but they haven't transferred the debt.
HoMFC still owe UBIG £22m+ and don't owe Ukio anything events at Ukio don't change the debt even if Ukio were to write off the amount owed to them by UBIG.

Their problems start if and when Ukio's administrator starts calling in the debts - he will first go to UBIG and if they can pay nothing good or bad happens to HoMFC. If UBIG can't pay the administrator is likely to either go after HoMFC's assets - i.e. force the sale of Tynie or serve a WUP on UBIG either way he will get his £6.8m.

As I've said before, UBIG simply can't sell a debt-free HoMFC for less than about £7m as they'd effectively be paying someone to take it away. This is not in any way good news for the yams.

[Sergey]

Official statement from Yam Land (from an UBIG Director):


Heart of Midlothian FC today issued the following statement in regard to the announcement in Lithuania that Ukio Bankas has entered temporary administration.

Sergejus Fedotovas, director of Hearts, stated: "The Board wishes to make it clear that Heart of Midlothian plc and Ukio Bankas are two separate companies.

"Hearts is majority owned by Ukio Banko Investicine Grupe (UBIG), a multi-national business conglomerate. UBIG is an entirely separate entity and stands alone from Ukio Bankas.

"At a service and operational level, Ukio Bankas does provide the club with some banking services and debt facility and the Board is liaising with Ukio Bankas on these matters.

"The supporters of Hearts can be assured that the Board of the club continues to be diligent in financial matters and we believe that today's events in Lithuania will have very little affect on our day-to-day business."

I just don't believe the last sentence as their day-to-day finances are now out of their control.

[bighairyfaeleith]

Statement fi their fishy site
Heart of Midlothian FC today issued the following statement in regard to the announcement in Lithuania that Ukio Bankas has entered temporary administration.

Sergejus Fedotovas, director of Hearts, stated: "The Board wishes to make it clear that Heart of Midlothian plc and Ukio Bankas are two separate companies.

"Hearts is majority owned by Ukio Banko Investicine Grupe (UBIG), a multi-national business conglomerate. UBIG is an entirely separate entity and stands alone from Ukio Bankas.

"At a service and operational level, Ukio Bankas does provide the club with some banking services and debt facility and the Board is liaising with Ukio Bankas on these matters.

"The supporters of Hearts can be assured that the Board of the club continues to be diligent in financial matters and we believe that today's events in Lithuania will have very little affect on our day-to-day business."

Now how to I disinfect my PC?

ah so it's all ok then. :greengrin

[Fat Penlon]

Right, the link between HoMFC, UBIG and Ukio.

HoMFC owe UBIG something in excess of £22m - that is secured on all the assets of HoMFC.
UBIG owe Ukio an undetermined amount in excess of £6.8m.
UBIG have transferred to Ukio £6.8m (plus interest) of the security they hold over HoMFC's assets, but they haven't transferred the debt.
HoMFC still owe UBIG £22m+ and don't owe Ukio anything events at Ukio don't change the debt even if Ukio were to write off the amount owed to them by UBIG.

Their problems start if and when Ukio's administrator starts calling in the debts - he will first go to UBIG and if they can pay nothing good or bad happens to HoMFC. If UBIG can't pay the administrator is likely to either go after HoMFC's assets - i.e. force the sale of Tynie or serve a WUP on UBIG either way he will get his £6.8m.

As I've said before, UBIG simply can't sell a debt-free HoMFC for less than about £7m as they'd effectively be paying someone to take it away. This is not in any way good news for the yams.

In the last week Vlad has lost his basketball team and now his bank. Why is he still holding onto HOMFC?

[SunshineOnLeith]

Right, the link between HoMFC, UBIG and Ukio.

HoMFC owe UBIG something in excess of £22m - that is secured on all the assets of HoMFC.
UBIG owe Ukio an undetermined amount in excess of £6.8m.
UBIG have transferred to Ukio £6.8m (plus interest) of the security they hold over HoMFC's assets, but they haven't transferred the debt.
HoMFC still owe UBIG £22m+ and don't owe Ukio anything events at Ukio don't change the debt even if Ukio were to write off the amount owed to them by UBIG.

Their problems start if and when Ukio's administrator starts calling in the debts - he will first go to UBIG and if they can pay nothing good or bad happens to HoMFC. If UBIG can't pay the administrator is likely to either go after HoMFC's assets - i.e. force the sale of Tynie or serve a WUP on UBIG either way he will get his £6.8m.

As I've said before, UBIG simply can't sell a debt-free HoMFC for less than about £7m as they'd effectively be paying someone to take it away. This is not in any way good news for the yams.

So it's fair to say the situation will turn on the solvency of UBIG? What interests do they have other than hearts?

[lapsedhibee]

today's events in Lithuania will have very little affect on our day-to-day businessEffect.

Illitrits.

[Sioux]

“The shareholders and management of Ukio didn’t fulfill
the loan-restructuring plan and disregarded the Bank of
Lithuania’s order to reduce the part of the loan portfolio
related to the main shareholder,”

No problem. Vlad (UKIO) has merely loaned money to himself (HMFC, UBIG). For years the Yams have been telling us that such a move is perfectly OK. Some people think its all over.....................it might be now.

[Hibernia Na Eir]

Is it the case that UKIO not UBIG now have the floating charge over the pink Savile dome?

If so, Saughton Park had better start building ash terracing.

would have thought any Floating Charge would have been slapped on long time ago. in which case, they're up the street that stinks of poo poo. Asset = Pink Bus thing.
And debt must come in to satisfy others.
A huge big, OH DEAR!

[Twa Cairpets]

Hearing a lot of people talking about lad possibly selling hearts off on the cheap just to get rid but I am not sure he can do it now. If ukio have security over Tynie I am not sure it will be in his powers to do so. I am pretty sure at potential buyers wouldn't rush into a sale either without being sure that vlad has written the debt off.

This surely can't be good news for hearts, if hearts don't have any money left, no bank in the uk would provide overdrafts etc and they will just keep defaulting.

Think i'm right in saying that if its anything like administration over here, what His Royal Vladness may or may nor want to do is immaterial. The administrators have final say on what happens now at UKIO, not their management/owners

[Bostonhibby]

Official statement from Yam Land (from an UBIG Director):



I just don't believe the last sentence as their day-to-day finances are now out of their control.

I'd be even more nervous being one of the entities owned by UBIG looking at how some of them have went recently. Two cheeks of the same arse is the phrase that springs to mind.

[Oscar T Grouch]

ah so it's all ok then. :greengrin

Aye apart fi ma PC being tainted by going on that site, I feel dirty :jamboak:

[Twa Cairpets]

Statement fi their fishy site
Heart of Midlothian FC today issued the following statement in regard to the announcement in Lithuania that Ukio Bankas has entered temporary administration.

Sergejus Fedotovas, director of Hearts, stated: "The Board wishes to make it clear that Heart of Midlothian plc and Ukio Bankas are two separate companies.

"Hearts is majority owned by Ukio Banko Investicine Grupe (UBIG), a multi-national business conglomerate. UBIG is an entirely separate entity and stands alone from Ukio Bankas.

"At a service and operational level, Ukio Bankas does provide the club with some banking services and debt facility and the Board is liaising with Ukio Bankas on these matters.

"The supporters of Hearts can be assured that the Board of the club continues to be diligent in financial matters and we believe that today's events in Lithuania will have very little affect on our day-to-day business."


Temporarily, until it is decided what means will be used to find a solution to
the problems of Ūkio bankas, the bank will not be providing financial services.

Now, can anyone see where the problem might lie if UKIO are due to pay the players wages in the next few days?

[Hibernia Na Eir]

I'll bet his failed Edinburgh branch and his flawed St Andrew Square building seems an awful long time ago.

Down Periscope....

[mim]

Right, the link between HoMFC, UBIG and Ukio.

HoMFC owe UBIG something in excess of £22m - that is secured on all the assets of HoMFC.
UBIG owe Ukio an undetermined amount in excess of £6.8m.
UBIG have transferred to Ukio £6.8m (plus interest) of the security they hold over HoMFC's assets, but they haven't transferred the debt.
HoMFC still owe UBIG £22m+ and don't owe Ukio anything events at Ukio don't change the debt even if Ukio were to write off the amount owed to them by UBIG.

Their problems start if and when Ukio's administrator starts calling in the debts - he will first go to UBIG and if they can pay nothing good or bad happens to HoMFC. If UBIG can't pay the administrator is likely to either go after HoMFC's assets - i.e. force the sale of Tynie or serve a WUP on UBIG either way he will get his £6.8m.

As I've said before, UBIG simply can't sell a debt-free HoMFC for less than about £7m as they'd effectively be paying someone to take it away. This is not in any way good news for the yams.

Exactly how I see it. :rolleyes::fibber:

[PatHead]

My favourite bit of Hearts statement "the Board of the club continues continues to be diligent in financial matters"

Obviously means they aren't paying this week's wages

[Danderhall Hibs]

Now, can anyone see where the problem might lie if UKIO are due to pay the players wages in the next few days?

UBIG make up the difference. Ukio don't pay anything.

[SteveHFC]

Think I'll just sit back and wait for all this to blow over.

http://d22zlbw5ff7yk5.cloudfront.net/images/cm-29676-05094a71dae099.gif

[Haymaker]

Classic steve gif.

[Hank Schrader]

From the various bits of news posted on here today regarding UKIOs administration, the bit that stands out most for me (from Lix's Bloomberg extract a couple of hours ago) is this;


Ukio had insufficient capital and liquidity and refused to
stop lending money to companies associated with majority owner
Vladimir Romanov.

Now, I assume that these associated companies include UBIG and therefore through association, HMFC. Are we to assume that this lending from insufficient capital is what has been keeping HMFC alive (along with the bakes sales and stealing from childrens piggy banks)? If so then I cannot see how Hearts are going to survive short term as the administrators are unlikely to allow this funding to continue.

[green glory]

Without wanting to seem too smug...




9357

[TrinityHibs]

Think I'll just sit back and wait for all this to blow over.




Thats Sean of the Dead. Just brilliant

[Gingertosser]

Official statement from Yam Land (from an UBIG Director):

I suppose this gives them time to pack their bags & leave the country, but obviously not to Lithuania...

[PatHead]

Anyone else notice that UKIOS value when shares ceased trading was just more than the debt owed by Hearts alone to UBIG. £28.2m.

[Mikey]

Official statement from Yam Land (from an UBIG Director):



I just don't believe the last sentence as their day-to-day finances are now out of their control.

A statement made by the same board that told Hearts fans they had a Director of Football working undercover :greengrin

The list of porkies is quite lengthy..................

[s.a.m]

Not their lucky day....

Jane Lewis‏@JaneLewisSport#Hearts (http://www.hibs.net/search?q=%23Hearts&src=hash) says Captain Marius Zaliukas could be out for up to 2 months after a scan revealed he's torn ankle ligaments.

[Russell The Dug]

Not their lucky day....

Jane Lewis‏@JaneLewisSport#Hearts (http://www.hibs.net/search?q=%23Hearts&src=hash) says Captain Marius Zaliukas could be out for up to 2 months after a scan revealed he's torn ankle ligaments.


:faf:

[itslegaltender]

been a lurker way too long here in this forum. Waiting for the "smell of yam" comments :na na:. Just managed to get a bite from Mark Donaldson on twitter.

Mark Donaldson‏@Donaldson007@itslegaltender (http://www.hibs.net/itslegaltender) @HibernianFans (http://www.hibs.net/HibernianFans) I can report, direct from the horse's arse, that there are in fact no tanks in the centre of Baghdad ;-p

[pacorosssco]

rangers sold ibrox to newco with what it seems like no fuss expect the other dark force to do something similar.

keith allen should investigate

[hibees 7062]

It's hard to see how UBIG can survive now as they are surely what the regulator meant by 'risky investments'.

The administrator will need to protect depositors in the first instance and that will mean cashing in on the security over the PBS.

In our efforts to assist the ordinary depositors, we should set up a scheme whereby we pay to be allowed to drive a bulldozer for a day. Does anyone know if Stephen Dalton is a Hibby ?

Seniors a Celtic supporter , juniors a yam

[Mikey]

rangers sold ibrox to newco with what it seems like no fuss expect the other dark force to do something similar.

keith allen should investigate

Rangers had a very friendly Adminstrator. Expect Hearts not to :greengrin

[Hibernia Na Eir]

Official statement from Yam Land (from an UBIG Director):



I just don't believe the last sentence as their day-to-day finances are now out of their control.

the word "believe" says it all from Fed-it-toe-fart. going under all day long Yambos :)


Not their lucky day....

Jane Lewis‏@JaneLewisSport#Hearts (http://www.hibs.net/search?q=%23Hearts&src=hash) says Captain Marius Zaliukas could be out for up to 2 months after a scan revealed he's torn ankle ligaments.

no sympathy for the Balkan dud.

[EuanH78]

Official statement from Yam Land (from an UBIG Director):



I just don't believe the last sentence as their day-to-day finances are now out of their control.

Well, to be fair it is true - Finances were a basket case before UKIO went into admin and remain a basket case afterwards too. :greengrin

[Caversham Green]

In the last week Vlad has lost his basketball team and now his bank. Why is he still holding onto HOMFC?

Because he can't sell them for less than £7m and they're not worth 7p.


So it's fair to say the situation will turn on the solvency of UBIG? What interests do they have other than hearts?

Their main other interest is the Birac aluminium plant that hasn't been paying its employees since last summer....


UBIG make up the difference. Ukio don't pay anything.

....like they do with their other employees? Or like they've done over the last three or four months with the yams?

It looks like Ukio is the bank that all the proceeds from the face-baking and cake-painting activities went to, and they can't get them back out now.

[Ozyhibby]

I'm going to stick my neck out now and predict that Hearts will be at least in admin by the weekend and have possibly played their last game.
And the thought makes me very Happy.:agree::flag::flag::party: