Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

[PatHead]

Wouldn't it be funny if their match was postponed tomorrow and Tattooman was suspended for the semi whilst they lost money on re-arranging the St Mirren game.

[Saorsa]

Wouldn't it be funny if their match was postponed tomorrow and Tattooman was suspended for the semi whilst they lost money on re-arranging the St Mirren game.Stop it

http://i40.tinypic.com/3146pvm.gif




:greengrin

[weonlywon6-2]

Wouldn't it be funny if their match was postponed tomorrow and Tattooman was suspended for the semi whilst they lost money on re-arranging the St Mirren game.


just nip up the A9 and open a gate and lets loads of cattle out so the road is blocked, you never know,give them a ball and theyd probably beat hearts as well !!

[gorgie greens]

I don't think FoH can use Club income to pay off debts for the club purchase. That would be a leveraged purchase which are no longer allowed.

If DDs dry up it has to be cake sales and face painting :greengrin

Or face washing in Lockes case

[greenginger]

A few days ago a poster suggested someone e-mail Bryan Bradley at Bloomberg as he is on the ground in Lithuania and may have better info. on the whole Ukio/UBIG mess than our local hacks.

I did just that and got a very courteous reply, unfortunately he seems to know less than Hibs.net as in his words it is " last years news " and will only surface if something very big happens.

He attached the link to the UBIG bankruptcy site.

http://www.bankrotodep.lt/Company.php?Tipas=1&Code=135201099

A dead end there I'm afraid.

[The Falcon]

If everything goes according to plan for BDO/FOH and HMFC continue will that mean that Quantum Holdings (aka Vlad's niece aka Vlad) will retain their 15% shareholding?

[greenginger]

If everything goes according to plan for BDO/FOH and HMFC continue will that mean that Quantum Holdings (aka Vlad's niece aka Vlad) will retain their 15% shareholding?


Don't forget the 4.45 % owned by HOMFC 2005 Ltd, a company dissolved last year. These shares are now owned by HRH Queen Elizabeth, although I doubt she knows it. :greengrin

Offers however have been made by Hibs.net :wink:

[Col2]

Liquidate them. Only true justice for the cheating (spending money they don't have to gain football advantage).

I will piss myself laughing when that day comes and then they can all tell us how it was all worth it.

[Springbank]

just nip up the A9 and open a gate and lets loads of cattle out so the road is blocked, you never know,give them a ball and theyd probably beat hearts as well !!

Play for the Jersey

[Waxy]

Liquidate them. Only true justice for the cheating (spending money they don't have to gain football advantage).

I will piss myself laughing when that day comes and then they can all tell us how it was all worth it.Worst case is they get relegated, struggle to come back up for years,end up having to sell tynie because they can't afford to keep playing there and they have to live within their means for the rest of their puff(something they've not been used to for the last 30 years).It's quite hilarious how even now, reality doesn't seem to be sinking in for them.

[EK_Hibs]

Liquidate them. Only true justice for the cheating (spending money they don't have to gain football advantage).

I will piss myself laughing when that day comes and then they can all tell us how it was all worth it.

They won't be liquidated. I HAD high hopes they were going to be a couple of months ago but now it's highly unlikely.
On the bright side they'll likely be down in the Championship for at least 2 seasons because of Sevco. Out of sight Out of mind. Cheerio Yaks.

[Kojock]

Play for the Jersey

They're used to the Friesian conditions too.

Just signed a new striker as well Paul Heifernan

[inglisavhibs]

They won't be liquidated. I HAD high hopes they were going to be a couple of months ago but now it's highly unlikely.
On the bright side they'll likely be down in the Championship for at least 2 seasons because of Sevco. Out of sight Out of mind. Cheerio Yaks.

I doubt you had high hopes for liquidation.:wink: The truth is that nobody knows if Hearts will be liquidated as there are too may unknowns at this stage.

[cocopops1875]

They won't be liquidated. I HAD high hopes they were going to be a couple of months ago but now it's highly unlikely.
On the bright side they'll likely be down in the Championship for at least 2 seasons because of Sevco. Out of sight Out of mind. Cheerio Yaks.

No chance of coming up in the play off then ?

[weonlywon6-2]

No chance of coming up in the play off then ?

there is not much expected of them just now so no real pressure. When they go down and build for next year the pressure will be back on. They will have a bit of money as they are really in the same position with us in getting money through the gates.The hope is that Dundee are a bit stronger and they haven't managed to get any decent signings to play in the first division

[grunt]

They won't be liquidated. I HAD high hopes they were going to be a couple of months ago but now it's highly unlikely.I'd be interested to know on what evidence you base that assertion.

[Saorsa]

They won't be liquidated. I HAD high hopes they were going to be a couple of months ago but now it's highly unlikely.
On the bright side they'll likely be down in the Championship for at least 2 seasons because of Sevco. Out of sight Out of mind. Cheerio Yaks.:rolleyes:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-LXxvsnGY8v0/UBwj98uowHI/AAAAAAAAFfc/Fsotcct0D5E/s1600/DSC04641%2B%2528Custom%2529.JPG

http://www.hibs.net/images/smilies/rolleyes2.gif

[Jack Hackett]

They won't be liquidated. I HAD high hopes they were going to be a couple of months ago but now it's highly unlikely.
On the bright side they'll likely be down in the Championship for at least 2 seasons because of Sevco. Out of sight Out of mind. Cheerio Yaks.

Until such time as the fat lady sings, this is in no way a 'done deal'. Sevco were 100% certain that their CVA proposal was acceptable right up to the day it was rejected. The circumstances in the hertz case are different, but they still have hurdles to jump and their clock is ticking.

If and when FoH get their grubby little mitts on the 'prize' :tee hee:, I'll accept second best scenario. Until then, I'll be looking for their deserved extinction.

Die ya mini huns

[RoYO!]

I'd be interested to know on what evidence you base that assertion.

Ukio are going to accept 2.5 mil for the land. If ukio wanted the going rate then hertz wouldnt be able to raise that. then they go to liquidation. Id be interested to know the ins and outs of how they could still be liquidated at this point. In fact id be delighted to know :)

Would it be a ukio u turn having already accepted in principa?
Do ubig have ANY cards to play?

[EK_Hibs]

I'd be interested to know on what evidence you base that assertion.

I've been of that opinion ever since the CVA was 'provisionally agreed' in late November. I was, and still am, amazed that that CVA wasn't kicked into touch by all the meaningful Creditors!! Only HMRC had the sense to do so if I remember correctly.

[CropleyWasGod]

Ukio are going to accept 2.5 mil for the land. If ukio wanted the going rate then hertz wouldnt be able to raise that. then they go to liquidation. Id be interested to know the ins and outs of how they could still be liquidated at this point. In fact id be delighted to know :)

1. they run out of money before the CVA is completed.

2. they have money, but the Lithuanian Courts refuse to unblock the sale of the UBIG shares.

3. FOH/their backers refuse to meet the alleged purchase price for the UBIG shares.

[EK_Hibs]

No chance of coming up in the play off then ?

They probably will have 'a chance' in the play-offs next season but I just don't see them being promoted straight away. I predict play-off pain for them next season....which will be extremely funny :)

[greenpaper55]

I see this is up for sale http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/bank-sold-to-pay-ex-hearts-owner-romanov-s-debts-1-3281497

pity they did not do the same for the PBS !.

[Saorsa]

1. they run out of money before the CVA is completed.

2. they have money, but the Lithuanian Courts refuse to unblock the sale of the UBIG shares.

3. FOH/their backers refuse to meet the alleged purchase price for the UBIG shares.What about the rubber stamp running out of ink? Surely a major factor?

[CropleyWasGod]

I see this is up for sale http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/bank-sold-to-pay-ex-hearts-owner-romanov-s-debts-1-3281497

pity they did not do the same for the PBS !.

Is it owned by UBIG? If so, it will be frozen.

[EK_Hibs]

1. they run out of money before the CVA is completed.

2. they have money, but the Lithuanian Courts refuse to unblock the sale of the shares.

3. FOH/their backers refuse to meet the alleged purchase price for the UBIG shares.


1) No chance, BDO would just get the begging bowl out again and start selling Season Tickets (for the Championship).
2) Possibly, this is the one remaining 'liquidation hope' from where I'm sitting.
3) Unless their backers are untrustworthy charlatans like Craig Whyte then I highly doubt this one unfortunately.

[CropleyWasGod]

What about the rubber stamp running out of ink? Surely a major factor?

This is what I love about Hibs.net. The brainstorming and left-field thinking is both a joy and a challenge..

:greengrin

[Saorsa]

This is what I love about Hibs.net. The brainstorming and left-field thinking is both a joy and a challenge..

:greengrinAll details must be considered. :greengrin I'm surprised you missed out such a biggie. :agree:

[Aldo]

Liquidate them. Only true justice for the cheating (spending money they don't have to gain football advantage). I will piss myself laughing when that day comes and then they can all tell us how it was all worth it.

O yes indeed. My preferred option but must admit it's been fun watching them moan, whinge,beg, grovel and make every excuse under the sun.

It would also be very funny if they got within touching distance but..... Didn't quite make it.

[Onceinawhile]

Ukio are going to accept 2.5 mil for the land. If ukio wanted the going rate then hertz wouldnt be able to raise that. then they go to liquidation. Id be interested to know the ins and outs of how they could still be liquidated at this point. In fact id be delighted to know :)

Would it be a ukio u turn having already accepted in principa?
Do ubig have ANY cards to play?

Because the shares are frozen and their funds are going to run out. Any day now. Probably today in fact.

(Repeat until you believe it, otherwise you support hearts.)

[The_Todd]

1) No chance, BDO would just get the begging bowl out again and start selling Season Tickets (for the Championship).
2) Possibly, this is the one remaining 'liquidation hope' from where I'm sitting.
3) Unless their backers are untrustworthy charlatans like Craig Whyte then I highly doubt this one unfortunately.

We've been through point one before: yes they could do but it would rob FOH of their working capital for next season. Without that they're buggered.

[Aldo]

:rolleyes:

Oi!! Only Banderson is allowed to use stamps, especially rubber ones to approved things. FACT ;-)

[The_Todd]

Because the shares are frozen and their funds are going to run out. Any day now. Probably today in fact.

(Repeat until you believe it, otherwise you support hearts.)

It's not Hibs.net that decided BDO are running out of working capital, that was BDO themselves.

Also nobody said they'd go boom today or even indeed tomorrow, everyone has been saying it'll be a long drawn out affair, which it is.

[Ozyhibby]

Lots of ifs, buts and maybes in that article. What is telling is that it is not up for sale and that action by the court is required. Must be the same for all Ubig assets.
:-)

[Jack Hackett]

Lots of ifs, buts and maybes in that article. What is telling is that it is not up for sale and that action by the court is required. Must be the same for all Ubig assets.
:-)

Could have been penned by #allisbarry himself, except he admits he doesn't do financials

[CropleyWasGod]

Could have been penned by #allisbarry himself, except he admits he doesn't do financials

The guy quoted, David Rutherford, is a decent one. He knows what he's talking about when it comes to insolvency.

I am guessing, though, that he doesn't know about the assets being frozen.

The article does suggest that the building belongs to UBIG, but it is the EEN so I'm not sure.

[grunt]

The EEN seems to have got its tenses mixed up. "Bank sold" implies that it has been sold. The article indicates otherwise.

[CropleyWasGod]

The EEN seems to have got its tenses mixed up. "Bank sold" implies that it has been sold. The article indicates otherwise.

Och, you should know by now how these things work. It just needs a rubber stamp.

[hhibs]

Sorry if covered before.

Under SPFL rules would Hearts be docked more points or suffer any other punishment if they are still in administration for next season?

Having a debate with a decent Jambo,yes a few exist, over here in the Sun and Wind of Fuerteventura.

GGTTH

[Phil D. Rolls]

They won't be liquidated. I HAD high hopes they were going to be a couple of months ago but now it's highly unlikely.
On the bright side they'll likely be down in the Championship for at least 2 seasons because of Sevco. Out of sight Out of mind. Cheerio Yaks.

FACT? :hmmm:

[EK_Hibs]

FACT? :hmmm:

Of course not.. but it's now at the stage where it's highly unlikely

[Aldo]

Of course not.. but it's now at the stage where it's highly unlikely

I don't see where you are getting this from. What stage are they at?? They've been in the same position for months on end with not a lot of money coming their way.

BDO /Jackson said that money will run out by Feb/March and I don't think that has changed, unless I've missed something.

So there is still ever chance they could be liquidated.

[greenginger]

The guy quoted, David Rutherford, is a decent one. He knows what he's talking about when it comes to insolvency.

I am guessing, though, that he doesn't know about the assets being frozen.

The article does suggest that the building belongs to UBIG, but it is the EEN so I'm not sure.


According to the Land Registry property certificate recorded when the property was purchased , 14/12/07, the acquirers name was UAB Businessline.

That is the same company that bought the old Hearts ticket office and shop and rented it to the Yams.

It is described in the Hearts Accounts as being a company controlled by Romanov, but the ownership of the St Andrew Sq building could have been transferred since then.

I am sure the EEN will have done their research thoroughly ! :greengrin

[Saorsa]

I don't see where you are getting this from. What stage are they at?? They've been in the same position for months on end with not a lot of money coming their way.

BDO /Jackson said that money will run out by Feb/March and I don't think that has changed, unless I've missed something.

So there is still ever chance they could be liquidated.Wasting your time mate. :agree:

[Aldo]

Wasting your time mate. :agree:

Your probably right there dude. Worth a try tho. :-D

[CropleyWasGod]

According to the Land Registry property certificate recorded when the property was purchased , 14/12/07, the acquirers name was UAB Businessline.

That is the same company that bought the old Hearts ticket office and shop and rented it to the Yams.

It is described in the Hearts Accounts as being a company controlled by Romanov, but the ownership of the St Andrew Sq building could have been transferred since then.

I am sure the EEN will have done their research thoroughly ! :greengrin

Yup, I have the same comfort. :greengrin

Cheers for the info, though.

[CyberSauzee]

Sorry if covered before.

Under SPFL rules would Hearts be docked more points or suffer any other punishment if they are still in administration for next season?

Having a debate with a decent Jambo,yes a few exist, over here in the Sun and Wind of Fuerteventura.

GGTTH

Was covered a few pages back. If in admin on the first day of next season they will have a points deduction.

[The_Todd]

Sorry if covered before.

Under SPFL rules would Hearts be docked more points or suffer any other punishment if they are still in administration for next season?

Having a debate with a decent Jambo,yes a few exist, over here in the Sun and Wind of Fuerteventura.

GGTTH

Yes

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Ukio are going to accept 2.5 mil for the land. If ukio wanted the going rate then hertz wouldnt be able to raise that. then they go to liquidation. Id be interested to know the ins and outs of how they could still be liquidated at this point. In fact id be delighted to know :)

Would it be a ukio u turn having already accepted in principa?
Do ubig have ANY cards to play?

The fact that FOH cant attain THE FROZEN SHARES until the Lith Authorities put them in the microwave means that theres every chance FOH will run out of dough before the authorities in Lithuania finalise their inquiry into all the dodgy exploits of Vlad et al! Keep Calm!

[Phil D. Rolls]

Of course not.. but it's now at the stage where it's highly unlikely

Sorry, I got mixed up when you said it will not happen - if it's only unlikely there's still hope for all of us seethers. I think there is a good chance they'll run out of money soon.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Sorry, I got mixed up when you said it will not happen - if it's only unlikely there's still hope for all of us seethers. I think there is a good chance they'll run out of money soon.

If that were to happen I wonder if CWG could tell us where BDO would get their fee from?

[Onceinawhile]

If that were to happen I wonder if CWG could tell us where BDO would get their fee from?

They are taking their fees from heart's surplus trading income at the moment. Of hearts were to get liquidated bdo would take their fee from any proceeds raised from the sale off of assets after liquidation.

[CropleyWasGod]

They are taking their fees from heart's surplus trading income at the moment. Of hearts were to get liquidated bdo would take their fee from any proceeds raised from the sale off of assets after liquidation.

I think you're right about the first part.

On liquidation, though, they wouldn't be in office. It would be another firm.

[inglisavhibs]

I don't see where you are getting this from. What stage are they at?? They've been in the same position for months on end with not a lot of money coming their way.

BDO /Jackson said that money will run out by Feb/March and I don't think that has changed, unless I've missed something.

So there is still ever chance they could be liquidated.
He is on the wind up mate, trying to be subtle but not very convincing for me. Might just come back and bite him in the b-- one day!

[Aldo]

He is on the wind up mate, trying to be subtle but not very convincing for me. Might just come back and bite him in the b-- one day!

I see. Think it already has. :-)

[Jack Hackett]

I think you're right about the first part.

On liquidation, though, they wouldn't be in office. It would be another firm.

Wouldn't BDO then be top of any creditors list though?

[CropleyWasGod]

Wouldn't BDO then be top of any creditors list though?

TBH, I don't know. Robin will.....

[hibee_nation]

Sorry, I got mixed up when you said it will not happen - if it's only unlikely there's still hope for all of us seethers. I think there is a good chance they'll run out of money soon.

Are we seethers now i much preferred frothers. :greengrin

[EK_Hibs]

He is on the wind up mate, trying to be subtle but not very convincing for me. Might just come back and bite him in the b-- one day!

How on earth am I on the wind up?

[clerriehibs]

How on earth am I on the wind up?

If you don't stick to the party line on here that they're almost definitely doomed, I think you're suspected of being a yam. It's a bit like a negative of sickbag.

[Inch Hibs]

If you don't stick to the party line on here that they're almost definitely doomed, I think you're suspected of being a yam. It's a bit like a negative of sickbag.


First rule of the "yams Financial Meltdown" thread - don't question the party line :agree:

[Ozyhibby]

A lot of people saying that BDO will just get the begging bowl out if they run out of cash in March. That won't be as easy to do if they have to admit, as they would, that the first £400k that is raised is would be to cover BDO's fees over the summer.

[Inch Hibs]

A lot of people saying that BDO will just get the begging bowl out if they run out of cash in March. That won't be as easy to do if they have to admit, as they would, that the first £400k that is raised is would be to cover BDO's fees over the summer.

BDO is on a fixed price fee.

[hibs0666]

No it is not, that is a yam fantasy.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

[hibs0666]

BDO is on a fixed price fee.

No it is not that is yam fantasy.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

[WindyMiller]

BDO is on a fixed price fee.


No they're not,now.

[Mikey]

BDO is on a fixed price fee.

No they're not.

Seeing as you're back, why not pay attention this time :wink:

[EK_Hibs]

If you don't stick to the party line on here that they're almost definitely doomed, I think you're suspected of being a yam. It's a bit like a negative of sickbag.

I see

[Ozyhibby]

BDO is on a fixed price fee.

They are absolutely not on a fixed fee. Where have you read that? Do you have a link?

[Mikey]

If you don't stick to the party line on here that they're almost definitely doomed, I think you're suspected of being a yam. It's a bit like a negative of sickbag.


First rule of the "yams Financial Meltdown" thread - don't question the party line :agree:

Och, ye wee lambs.

[CropleyWasGod]

BDO is on a fixed price fee.

How much?

[Inch Hibs]

Och, ye wee lambs.

I'm a lamb with thick skin Michael :)

Beg my pardon if they aren't on a fixed fee chaps.

[Inch Hibs]

No they're not.

Seeing as you're back, why not pay attention this time :wink:

No problem mate. Thanks for letting me stay ;)

[Mikey]

No it is not, that is a yam fantasy.



There's a lot of that about since Banderson's article. "Coming out of admin" being just one of them.

[Aldo]

I see

So why do you think that they are unlikely to be liquidated at this stage considering they have been at this stage for quite some time??

[EK_Hibs]

So why do you think that they are unlikely to be liquidated at this stage considering they have been at this stage for quite some time??

See my response to CropleyWasGod on page 1243

I do still have my fingers crossed for liquidation...but I just can't see it

[Aldo]

See my response to CropleyWasGod on page 1243 I do still have my fingers crossed for liquidation...but I just can't see it Cannot find it as on iPad and pages are all different. If you cannot be bothered it's ok. Thanks anyway

Liquidation is my preferred option

[EK_Hibs]

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod:
1. they run out of money before the CVA is completed.
2. they have money, but the Lithuanian Courts refuse to unblock the sale of the shares.
3. FOH/their backers refuse to meet the alleged purchase price for the UBIG shares.



1) No chance, BDO would just get the begging bowl out again and start selling Season Tickets (for the Championship).
2) Possibly, this is the one remaining 'liquidation hope' from where I'm sitting.
3) Unless their backers are untrustworthy charlatans like Craig Whyte then I highly doubt this one unfortunately.

[Aldo]

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod: 1. they run out of money before the CVA is completed. 2. they have money, but the Lithuanian Courts refuse to unblock the sale of the shares. 3. FOH/their backers refuse to meet the alleged purchase price for the UBIG shares.

Thanks. Doesn't change their situation which is still the same.
With shares being frozen and with no time scale on their release there will come a time when BDO must make that decision on wether to pull the plug.

[Gus Fring]

Had a wee look at Kickback to have a laugh at them enjoying getting in to positive points. They have a thread over there about the One In, One Out and this post stood out


Don't know about restriction of trade however I'm sure the SFA / SPFL are breaching some kind of employment laws, with regard to restricting a company from being able to employ. I could be wrong but hasn't this type of thing been won I a court before ? Where it was deemed illegal for another organisation or company to restrict or tell a company who it can and cannot employ. There are exceptions to that where an employe signs a confidential clause saying he/she cannot work for another competitor in the same industry for a set period of time but this is not in football or sporting contracts that type of thing is used mainly in electronics or computing type industries.

There all very dense over there aren't they? Nobody is stopping Hearts from employing new staff. The embargo is on them registering that person as a player. Hearts are free to employ Skacel as a janitor if they want, he just can't play football in a competitive match.

[jgl07]

1) No chance, BDO would just get the begging bowl out again and start selling Season Tickets (for the Championship).
2) Possibly, this is the one remaining 'liquidation hope' from where I'm sitting.
3) Unless their backers are untrustworthy charlatans like Craig Whyte then I highly doubt this one unfortunately.
Sniff, sniff?

[Inch Hibs]

Sniff, sniff?

Why sniff sniff?

Explain to me please what he's saying that wouldn't happen and why he's a Jambo because he asked?

History tells us the admin will beg to stay alive, it also tells us they are jammy welts.

Just accept other hibees have a different opinion from the hopefully thinking they will go into liquadation. A **** I would give not if they did but them being relegated, squirming for players to play in the semi of the, yes wait for it....WEE CUP (not so wee anymore ya Jambo tramps) and everything else that comes with it is most satisfying without turning on fellow fans for having the opinion they won't completely die. IMO.

[Jack Hackett]

Had a wee look at Kickback to have a laugh at them enjoying getting in to positive points. They have a thread over there about the One In, One Out and this post stood out



There all very dense over there aren't they? Nobody is stopping Hearts from employing new staff. The embargo is on them registering that person as a player. Hearts are free to employ Skacel as a janitor if they want, he just can't play football in a competitive match.

They completely ignore the fact that the SPFL....and all other leagues worldwide....are sporting organisations with rules and regulations. When a clubs join these organisations, they agree to abide by the rules and regulations which these organisations and its members have drawn up.

Ye cannae just pick and choose which rules you want to follow. You sign up to follow ALL of them.

Suck it up ya cheating bill dodging mongrels :yw:

[Gus Fring]

1) No chance, BDO would just get the begging bowl out again and start selling Season Tickets (for the Championship).
2) Possibly, this is the one remaining 'liquidation hope' from where I'm sitting.
3) Unless their backers are untrustworthy charlatans like Craig Whyte then I highly doubt this one unfortunately.

BDO selling Season tickets is their very last resort. The FOH are reliant on that income to keep them afloat next season. Using that money to keep the club afloat now would seriously hinder BDO's ability to sell the club as a going concern.

Additionally, selling tickets for the Championship before it's a mathematical certainty would be a massive PR disaster. If the club and it's administrators are admitting defeat then why would the fans keep them going? Direct Debits would take a nosedive and attendances would drop.

[Weststandwanab]

See my response to CropleyWasGod on page 1243

I do still have my fingers crossed for liquidation...but I just can't see it I think it could still happen.


BDO selling Season tickets is their very last resort. The FOH are reliant on that income to keep them afloat next season. Using that money to keep the club afloat now would seriously hinder BDO's ability to sell the club as a going concern.

Additionally, selling tickets for the Championship before it's a mathematical certainty would be a massive PR disaster. If the club and it's administrators are admitting defeat then why would the fans keep them going? Direct Debits would take a nosedive and attendances would drop. . Spot on as usual.

[inglisavhibs]

How on earth am I on the wind up?
It's an opinion based on what, how and when you post on this website.

[CropleyWasGod]

First rule of the "yams Financial Meltdown" thread - don't question the party line :agree:

There is no "party line" on here, as far as I can see.

There is plenty of debate, which is normally based on facts, experience and opinion, both informed and otherwise. It's that debate which makes this thread, for me, particularly fascinating.

[EK_Hibs]

It's an opinion based on what, how and when you post on this website.

:blah: :yawn:

[Dunderhall]

BDO selling Season tickets is their very last resort. The FOH are reliant on that income to keep them afloat next season. Using that money to keep the club afloat now would seriously hinder BDO's ability to sell the club as a going concern.

Additionally, selling tickets for the Championship before it's a mathematical certainty would be a massive PR disaster. If the club and it's administrators are admitting defeat then why would the fans keep them going? Direct Debits would take a nosedive and attendances would drop.
Add on top the potential for season ticket sales being restricted to cash or cheques again.

Who is going to replace Zebra as a fan's monthly finance option?
There was a decent period when BDO were selling season tickets last year when it was cash or cheque only.
The card suppliers weren't prepared to take the risk that should they go under that they wouldn't be hit by those paying by cards claiming the money back via chargeback schemes for debit cards and under section 75 cover for credit cards.
Did the convincers from BDO include selling next years tickets in March as well because the well has run dry?

[Gus Fring]

Who is going to replace Zebra as a fan's monthly finance option?

That's a pertinent question and one that affects us as well as Hearts. Zebra Finance went into Administration themselves last year and were bought by another company. It's unclear whether they will continue to offer the credit facility to fans/clubs.

[Inch Hibs]

There is no "party line" on here, as far as I can see.

There is plenty of debate, which is normally based on facts, experience and opinion, both informed and otherwise. It's that debate which makes this thread, for me, particularly fascinating.


Agreed big time mate, for this reason though, you must agree that people who dont dare to tow the party line being called"yams" is pathetic?

:greengrin

Mikey is calling us "wee lambs" (sorry mate) I would say the poor wee lambs are the posters who cannae handle others opinions without caling them a jambo.

[down-the-slope]

Agreed big time mate, for this reason though, you must agree that people who dont dare to tow the party line being called"yams" is pathetic?

:greengrin

Mikey is calling us "wee lambs" (sorry mate) I would say the poor wee lambs are the posters who cannae handle others opinions without caling them a jambo.


So you agree...then go on the make the same claim :rolleyes:

Opinions are just that..but when fact shows that its not possible to continue to hold a particular opinion... but individuals continue to offer the self same opinion then you are either daft or at the wind up.....

[Ozyhibby]

Even setting the price for next seasons tickets is tying FoH's hands.

[lord bunberry]

BDO selling Season tickets is their very last resort. The FOH are reliant on that income to keep them afloat next season. Using that money to keep the club afloat now would seriously hinder BDO's ability to sell the club as a going concern.

Additionally, selling tickets for the Championship before it's a mathematical certainty would be a massive PR disaster. If the club and it's administrators are admitting defeat then why would the fans keep them going? Direct Debits would take a nosedive and attendances would drop.

But if it was a choice between running out of money and having to liquidate the famous or selling next seasons season tickets, what would bdo do?

[davcar]

But if it was a choice between running out of money and having to liquidate the famous or selling next seasons season tickets, what would bdo do?



By no no means an expert but I reckon BDO would have to sell ST's if it prevented liquidation, the biggest problem in doing this would be that FoH may lose it's main backers, as I'm sure this money along with the shares on the stadium are their guarantee!

Shoot me if I'm wrong!

[CropleyWasGod]

Agreed big time mate, for this reason though, you must agree that people who dont dare to tow the party line being called"yams" is pathetic?

:greengrin

Mikey is calling us "wee lambs" (sorry mate) I would say the poor wee lambs are the posters who cannae handle others opinions without caling them a jambo.

I'm not on this thread to get involved in squabbling.

[Weststandwanab]

Agreed big time mate, for this reason though, you must agree that people who dont dare to tow the party line being called"yams" is pathetic?

:greengrin

Mikey is calling us "wee lambs" (sorry mate) I would say the poor wee lambs are the posters who cannae handle others opinions without caling them a jambo. I agree.


But if it was a choice between running out of money and having to liquidate the famous or selling next seasons season tickets, what would bdo do? Whatever protects their position.


By no no means an expert but I reckon BDO would have to sell ST's if it prevented liquidation, the biggest problem in doing this would be that FoH may lose it's main backers, as I'm sure this money along with the shares on the stadium are their guarantee!

Shoot me if I'm wrong! No shots required.

[EastCalderHibby]

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod:
1. they run out of money before the CVA is completed.
2. they have money, but the Lithuanian Courts refuse to unblock the sale of the shares.
3. FOH/their backers refuse to meet the alleged purchase price for the UBIG shares.

11856

[CropleyWasGod]

By no no means an expert but I reckon BDO would have to sell ST's if it prevented liquidation, the biggest problem in doing this would be that FoH may lose it's main backers, as I'm sure this money along with the shares on the stadium are their guarantee!

Shoot me if I'm wrong!

If they lose their backers, there is no going concern, and they have to liquidate.

[StevieC]

By no no means an expert but I reckon BDO would have to sell ST's if it prevented liquidation, the biggest problem in doing this would be that FoH may lose it's main backers

FoH need the ST money for their business plan to succeed, if the ST money is used this season it means that FoH is not a financially viable option and BDO lose their preferred bidder.
In short ..
spend season ticket money = FoH business plan burst = liquidation
run out of money = no funds = liquidation

I think that the more likely route would be to get FoH to use the DD money to find the club till the CVA is finally completed. This will require FoH to be pretty confident that the CVA can be completed and that they can convince those paying DD's to allow the funds to be used in this way.
Personally, despite it being a change to the terms of the DD, I don't foresee the Hearts support blocking FoH to use the funds as a last ditch attempt to save the club.

[Gus Fring]

BDO's primary objective is to 'rescue' Hearts as a going concern. If Hearts are relegated then Season Tickets will be by far their biggest source of revenue next season. If they sell them and ***** the money now then FOH take over they will have no money to run the club with and as such will end up in exactly the same situation.

[whiskyhibby]

By no no means an expert but I reckon BDO would have to sell ST's if it prevented liquidation, the biggest problem in doing this would be that FoH may lose it's main backers, as I'm sure this money along with the shares on the stadium are their guarantee!

Shoot me if I'm wrong!

Think you are absolutely right

[Gus Fring]

I think that the more likely route would be to get FoH to use the DD money to find the club till the CVA is finally completed. This will require FoH to be pretty confident that the CVA can be completed and that they can convince those paying DD's to allow the funds to be used in this way.
Personally, despite it being a change to the terms of the DD, I don't foresee the Hearts support blocking FoH to use the funds as a last ditch attempt to save the club.

My reading of the FOH doesn't allow for this but I could be wrong.


The funds will be used for:
1. The financing of the purchase of the majority shareholding in HoMplc


2. Thereafter, other legitimate purposes/projects, subject to board and
membership approval, which will assist in ensuring the financial stability
and/or the betterment of the club.

It's number 2 having the word "Thereafter" that I believe to be legally limiting. Option 2 can't be invoked until Option 1 has been completed.

[gorgie greens]

BDO is on a fixed price fee.

if they remain in admin because the frozen shares are stuck in the legal process in Lith takes years and not months,I think BDO would be after more money,there must be a cut off date and anything beyond that date will cost over and above what would have been agreed.or is this admin unique because of the fraud case and BDO never did there homework on this case and will get there fingers burned,even although i would stick my hands in a fire for £400.000

[CropleyWasGod]

if they remain in admin because the frozen shares are stuck in the legal process in Lith takes years and not months,I think BDO would be after more money,there must be a cut off date and anything beyond that date will cost over and above what would have been agreed.or is this admin unique because of the fraud case and BDO never did there homework on this case and will get there fingers burned,even although i would stick my hands in a fire for £400.000

It's not a fixed fee, though.

[CropleyWasGod]

My reading of the FOH doesn't allow for this but I could be wrong.


It's number 2 having the word "Thereafter" that I believe to be legally limiting. Option 2 can't be invoked until Option 1 has been completed.

Good spot.

I also think that the backers would be nervous about changing the terms of the repayment.

[brog]

My reading of the FOH doesn't allow for this but I could be wrong.


It's number 2 having the word "Thereafter" that I believe to be legally limiting. Option 2 can't be invoked until Option 1 has been completed.

I think it may also give their backers some concern if they see money intended to repay their investment being used to keep the club afloat. That would probably trigger a withdrawal of support & then liquidation! Hmmmmm!!

[brog]

Good spot.

I also think that the backers would be nervous about changing the terms of the repayment.

Great minds! :wink:

[CropleyWasGod]

Great minds! :wink:

Boring old farts :greengrin

[gorgie greens]

Think this could all come to a head in the next four months,
They lose the semi final,the impact of the drop in money would have the BDO begging bowl out right away (they were told to keep any money that Santa may have given them already)
The shares remain frozen in Siberia ,would result in further points reduction to the new season,
on the other hand if they win the semi final,the money would tide them over for the next few months,
And the big IF,they manage to get the shares in the next month and they exit admin.
I know what i want but think it wont be long till we find out.

[Fat Penlon]

What worries me is BDO handled the Portsmouth admin/liquidation where the owners assets were frozen in almost exactly the same fashion as the UBIG assets. Those shares still remain frozen to this day so BDO know the same will be the case for UBIG surely? Or do they know the shares can somehow be released? Or are even not held be UBIG and owned by some other company of romanov's that's isn't in administration?

[gorgie greens]

What worries me is BDO handled the Portsmouth admin/liquidation where the owners assets were frozen in almost exactly the same fashion as the UBIG assets. Those shares still remain frozen to this day so BDO know the same will be the case for UBIG surely? Or do they know the shares can somehow be released? Or are even not held be UBIG and owned by some other company of romanov's that's isn't in administration?

sound much the same as Portsmouth won the cup just before the **** hit the fan as well,would be happy if the Hear7s had a similar outcome and end up the nobodys that we know they already are struggling for scraps at the bottom of the lower divisions

[Fat Penlon]

sound much the same as Portsmouth won the cup just before the **** hit the fan as well,would be happy if the Hear7s had a similar outcome and end up the nobodys that we know they already are struggling for scraps at the bottom of the lower divisions

It's what clubs like that deserve! Cheats.

[lapsedhibee]

sound much the same as Portsmouth won the cup just before the **** hit the fan as well,would be happy if the Hear7s had a similar outcome and end up the nobodys that we know they already are struggling for scraps at the bottom of the lower divisions

Wasn't 'onest 'arry in charge at Portsmouth when all that happened? Can only hope that his win bonus safely reached his dog's Swiss bank account.

[clerriehibs]

What worries me is BDO handled the Portsmouth admin/liquidation where the owners assets were frozen in almost exactly the same fashion as the UBIG assets. Those shares still remain frozen to this day so BDO know the same will be the case for UBIG surely? Or do they know the shares can somehow be released? Or are even not held be UBIG and owned by some other company of romanov's that's isn't in administration?

Delighted if the yams go the same way as pompey.

If it's true about the pompey shares still being frozen, that means that no yam deal being possible while the ubig shares are frozen isn't really true.

[CapitalGreen]

What worries me is BDO handled the Portsmouth admin/liquidation where the owners assets were frozen in almost exactly the same fashion as the UBIG assets. Those shares still remain frozen to this day so BDO know the same will be the case for UBIG surely? Or do they know the shares can somehow be released? Or are even not held be UBIG and owned by some other company of romanov's that's isn't in administration?

I'm pretty sure Portsmouth went down the Sevco route to get around the frozen shares issue. Fortunately for them, the authorities in England were happy for their league membership to be transferred over. With the Rangers (1873-2012) precedent in Scotland this would not be possible for Hearts (in administration).

[Fat Penlon]

I'm pretty sure Portsmouth went down the Sevco route to get around the frozen shares issue. Fortunately for them, the authorities in England were happy for their league membership to be transferred over. With the Rangers (1873-2012) precedent in Scotland this would not be possible for Hearts (in administration).

Exactly so if BDO know that's what they had to do at Portsmouth why are the hanging on at hearts? What are they waiting on?

[CropleyWasGod]

Exactly so if BDO know that's what they had to do at Portsmouth why are the hanging on at hearts? What are they waiting on?

They are trying to carry out their legal duty, which is the preservation of the business as a going concern.

[CapitalGreen]

As long as they believe the company can continue as a going concern they won't move towards liquidation.

[CapitalGreen]

They are trying to carry out their legal duty, which is the preservation of the business as a going concern.

What he said ^^ :)

[CropleyWasGod]

What he said ^^ :)

And him :)

[mixumatosis]

Good spot.

I also think that the backers would be nervous about changing the terms of the repayment.

So, just for arguments sake, if one of us were to pledge a token tenner a month and foh gave those funds to bdo to keep the club afloat prior to the handover, said person might be in a position to Bismarck the whole deal?

One other thought that occurs (and I apologise if this has been covered previously) regards admin. My understanding is that bdo have stated that they do not have the funds to sustain the business beyond a given date. This implies that they are continuing to operate at a loss - if they were breaking even no such deadline would apply.

I understand that administrators may accept a short term loss in order to fulfill their "going concern" obligation. However, their fate is sealed with respect to relegation, or they were lying to the beaks when they argued that they were no threat to anyone.

How does the administrator now justify retaining players on £500/wk, at a continued loss,when releasing them and playing kids on £50/wk would move the business towards break even, whilst making no material difference to their prospects?

[Fat Penlon]

They are trying to carry out their legal duty, which is the preservation of the business as a going concern.

So using next seasons ST shouldn't be an option then as they won't have any money to operate next season? BDO know the shares won't be released due to previous experience.

[Hibby70]

Do we know for definite the reason the shares are "frozen". Is it because of the Romaniv fraud investigation or is it because UBIg are in administration. Apologies if already covered.

[jacomo]

My reading of the FOH doesn't allow for this but I could be wrong.


It's number 2 having the word "Thereafter" that I believe to be legally limiting. Option 2 can't be invoked until Option 1 has been completed.

Not how I read it initially but I think you are right. :aok:

[CapitalGreen]

Do we know for definite the reason the shares are "frozen". Is it because of the Romaniv fraud investigation or is it because UBIg are in administration. Apologies if already covered.

Romanov fraud.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-04-12/hearts-sale-plan-derailed-as-lithuania-freezes-romanov-s-assets.html

[greenlex]

I'm pretty sure Portsmouth went down the Sevco route to get around the frozen shares issue. Fortunately for them, the authorities in England were happy for their league membership to be transferred over. With the Rangers (1873-2012) precedent in Scotland this would not be possible for Hearts (in administration).
I'm not so sure Pompey were ever liquidated were they? At least two bouts of administration and the inevitable slide into the lower divisions with various points deductions and playing staff cuts for sure.

[CropleyWasGod]

Delighted if the yams go the same way as pompey.

If it's true about the pompey shares still being frozen, that means that no yam deal being possible while the ubig shares are frozen isn't really true.
I'm not an expert on the Portsmouth situation, but the shares are central to the Hearts deal. BJ has already said a few times that the hardest part of his job will be getting his hands on them.

[greenginger]

I'm not so sure Pompey were ever liquidated were they? At least two bouts of administration and the inevitable slide into the lower divisions with various points deductions and playing staff cuts for sure.


Portsmouth Football Club Limited were dissolved on 14/2/2012, they were replaced by Portsmouth Football Club Ltd. on 24/2/12.

The change in the name is as subtle as The Rangers :greengrin

[greenlex]

I'm not an expert on the Portsmouth situation, but the shares are central to the Hearts deal. BJ has already said a few times that the hardest part of his job will be getting his hands on them.
I think the Lithuanin chap didn't own a controlling interest in Pompey so the majority of shares were not frozen. Could be wrong tho.

[greenlex]

Portsmouth Football Club Limited were dissolved on 14/2/2012 (tel:14/2/2012), they were replaced by Portsmouth Football Club Ltd. on 24/2/12.

The change in the name is as subtle as The Rangers :greengrin
Good good. :greengrin:greengrin

[greenginger]

According to the Land Registry property certificate recorded when the property was purchased , 14/12/07, the acquirers name was UAB Businessline.

That is the same company that bought the old Hearts ticket office and shop and rented it to the Yams.

It is described in the Hearts Accounts as being a company controlled by Romanov, but the ownership of the St Andrew Sq building could have been transferred since then.

I am sure the EEN will have done their research thoroughly ! :greengrin


I hav'nt done all my research either. Thought I'd take a look at the SAA valuation roles for business rates.

http://www.saa.gov.uk/search.php?SEARCHED=1&ST=&SEARCH_TERM=eh2+2ad%2C+ST.+ANDREW+SQUARE&ASSESSOR_ID=&SEARCH_TABLE=valuation_roll&x=9&y=11&saacookiepolicy=1&__utma=203509138.1326996713.1390731969.1390731969. 1390731969.1&__utmb=203509138.5.10.1390731969&__utmc=203509138&__utmz=203509138.1390731969.1.1.utmcsr%3Dgoogle|ut mccn%3D%28organic%29|utmcmd%3Dorganic|utmctr%3D%28 not+provided%29&DISPLAY_COUNT=10&TYPE_FLAG=C&ORDER_BY=SET+DESC&DRILL_SEARCH_TERM=ST.+ANDREW+SQUARE&DD_STREET=ST.+ANDREW+SQUARE&DISPLAY_MODE=FULL&UARN=118S56741-42&PPRN=000000000006668&ASSESSOR_IDX=10&#results

They have the proprietor as Ukio Bankas Investments. The Golden Square bit is just a deveoloper who was trying to put a scheme together for the place a few years ago.

[EK_Hibs]

I'm not an expert on the Portsmouth situation, but the shares are central to the Hearts deal. BJ has already said a few times that the hardest part of his job will be getting his hands on them.

Good point, BJ has said on more than one occasion how difficult it may be to get hold of UBIG's shares. But any time I've heard him he's tended to lean towards the difficulty being the asking price rather than the fact they're still frozen. Unless of course he'd much rather the media didn't report that part? (The shares being frozen).

[CapitalGreen]

Portsmouth Football Club Limited were dissolved on 14/2/2012, they were replaced by Portsmouth Football Club Ltd. on 24/2/12.

The change in the name is as subtle as The Rangers :greengrin

Process explained in detail here for those interested:

http://m.accountancyage.com/aa/news/2262996/bdo-administrators-confirm-sale-of-portsmouth-fc

Impact for Hearts:

http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2013/07/13/anti-rangers-hearts-fans-on-collision-course-with-administrator-by-ad-bryce/

[Mikey]

Do we know for certain that the Portsmouth shares are still frozen then?

That'll be a big blow for the Rubber Stamper.

[CapitalGreen]

Do we know for certain that the Portsmouth shares are still frozen then?

That'll be a big blow for the Rubber Stamper.

http://rapsinews.com/judicial_news/20140121/270496715.html

Antanov is still in the UK awaiting extradition for his trial. His assets will remain frozen until such a time when a decision on whether any wrongdoing occurred is made. Even then there would likely be challenges and appeals. In the likely case of him being found guilty, then comes the lengthy and difficult process of the asset disposal.

[Mikey]

http://rapsinews.com/judicial_news/20140121/270496715.html

Antanov is still in the UK awaiting extradition for his trial. His assets will remain frozen until such a time when a decision on whether any wrongdoing occurred is made. Even then there would likely be challenges and appeals. In the likely case of him being found guilty, then comes the lengthy and difficult process of the asset disposal.

:aok:

[CapitalGreen]

So ultimately, the longer Romanov avoids prosecution in Lithuania the more he is shafting Hearts. He is the gift that keeps on giving.

Stay safe sweet prince.

[Kaiser1962]

http://rapsinews.com/judicial_news/20140121/270496715.html

Antanov is still in the UK awaiting extradition for his trial. His assets will remain frozen until such a time when a decision on whether any wrongdoing occurred is made. Even then there would likely be challenges and appeals. In the likely case of him being found guilty, then comes the lengthy and difficult process of the asset disposal.

So do we have legal precedent in UK/EU law which would surely trump Scots Law?

[Mikey]

So ultimately, the longer Romanov avoids prosecution in Lithuania the more he is shafting Hearts. He is the gift that keeps on giving.

Stay safe sweet prince.

Yep. While he's hiding out in Russia the longer it drags out.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

They are taking their fees from heart's surplus trading income at the moment. Of hearts were to get liquidated bdo would take their fee from any proceeds raised from the sale off of assets after liquidation.

Aye I know. I was just looking for Crops to take the bait, but, not even a hint of a nibble! :-)

[CropleyWasGod]

Aye I know. I was just looking for Crops to take the bait, but, not even a hint of a nibble! :-)

Some questions are on my rubber ear list ;-)

[Jack Hackett]

So...if the shares remain frozen with a long drawn out investigation, will hertz have to stay in administration until they are released because FoH will not own the club until this event actually occurs?

Therefore

The only practical way around this would be to liquidate themselves and start afresh as a newco al la Portsmouth?

Is this a possible/likely scenario?

[jacomo]

Process explained in detail here for those interested:

http://m.accountancyage.com/aa/news/2262996/bdo-administrators-confirm-sale-of-portsmouth-fc

Impact for Hearts:

http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2013/07/13/anti-rangers-hearts-fans-on-collision-course-with-administrator-by-ad-bryce/

It seems that the only thing that will save Hearts from liquidation now is the Lithuanian authorities going out of their way to bypass their own rules. They didn't do it for Portsmouth, so why would they do it for Hearts?

[Jack]

It seems that the only thing that will save Hearts from liquidation now is the Lithuanian authorities going out of their way to bypass their own rules. They didn't do it for Portsmouth, so why would they do it for Hearts?

I'm not asking you this :-)

So why are BDO not being up front, acknowledging this, and plugging in the liquidiser?

[brog]

They are taking their fees from heart's surplus trading income at the moment. Of hearts were to get liquidated bdo would take their fee from any proceeds raised from the sale off of assets after liquidation.

I know you posted this as a bit of a wind-up but I'm not sure it's strictly correct. IIRC BDO said they would take a portion of their fees from any trading profit made during the period Yams were in admin. Now as Yams remain in admin no one will know just what profit was made, if any, until such time as they emerge from admin, ( hopefully to liquidation!! ). I believe part of BDO's desperate efforts to maximise income/reduce expenditure during this period are to try & set off some of their fees against a trading profit. Otherwise the £2.5m due to the Liths reduces each day & the possibility of them ( UKIO ) realising they have been conned on this deal increases. I don't know if BDO are taking any fees for the moment but I don't see how they can possibly take anything from trading activities which fluctuate on a daily basis.

[CapitalGreen]

I'm not asking you this :-)

So why are BDO not being up front, acknowledging this, and plugging in the liquidiser?

Already answered previously by CWG and I. BDO are duty bound to continue working to run the company as a viable going concern. Unless the Lithuanian authorities state explicitly that a transfer of Romanovs assets will never be granted, BDO will continue to work on helping Hearts exit administration via a CVA. Hearts fans wil be hoping the money doesn't run out before than can happen.

[Jack]

Already answered previously by CWG and I. BDO are duty bound to continue working to run the company as a viable going concern. Unless the Lithuanian authorities state explicitly that a transfer of Romanovs assets will never be granted, BDO will continue to work on helping Hearts exit administration via a CVA. Hearts fans wil be hoping the money doesn't run out before than can happen.

Ah! It's the 'state explicitly' I had missed.

I thought it would have been more realistic than that i.e. It has become obvious, indeed has been for some time, the shares will not be released before the money runs out and it would be in everyone's interest, except perhaps BDO, to look at the alternatives that will benefit the yams and the creditors (UBIG).

[CapitalGreen]

Ah! It's the 'state explicitly' I had missed.

I thought it would have been more realistic than that i.e. It has become obvious, indeed has been for some time, the shares will not be released before the money runs out and it would be in everyone's interest, except perhaps BDO, to look at the alternatives that will benefit the yams and the creditors (UBIG).

May I add the 'state explicitly' part was just my opinion. The scenario you suggest is probably a possibility too. Ultimately, cash or lack of, will decide if and when they proceed to liquidation.

[CropleyWasGod]

Ah! It's the 'state explicitly' I had missed.

I thought it would have been more realistic than that i.e. It has become obvious, indeed has been for some time, the shares will not be released before the money runs out and it would be in everyone's interest, except perhaps BDO, to look at the alternatives that will benefit the yams and the creditors (UBIG).

I am not so sure that it is obvious.

We aren't party to the discussion that might be taking place between BDO and the Lithuanian court about the possibility of releasing the shares. For all we know, that might happen very soon.

It's unlikely, but possible.

[Glesgahibby]

So ultimately, the longer Romanov avoids prosecution in Lithuania the more he is shafting Hearts. He is the gift that keeps on giving.

Stay safe sweet prince.
:agree:
This is the best bit,myself and others have pointed this out to yams on the EEN/Scotsman forums.
The usual reply involves a group of numbers or wee team/hobo,it was worth it,mr Romanov and so on and so on.......
Liquadation will come one day and the longer it takes,the better IMO:greengrin

[Onceinawhile]

I know you posted this as a bit of a wind-up but I'm not sure it's strictly correct. IIRC BDO said they would take a portion of their fees from any trading profit made during the period Yams were in admin. Now as Yams remain in admin no one will know just what profit was made, if any, until such time as they emerge from admin, ( hopefully to liquidation!! ). I believe part of BDO's desperate efforts to maximise income/reduce expenditure during this period are to try & set off some of their fees against a trading profit. Otherwise the £2.5m due to the Liths reduces each day & the possibility of them ( UKIO ) realising they have been conned on this deal increases. I don't know if BDO are taking any fees for the moment but I don't see how they can possibly take anything from trading activities which fluctuate on a daily basis.

Wasn't a wind up at all. Bdo will be running hearts at a profit otherwise it wouldnt be a going concern. They will be taking a percentage of the trading profits on a regular basis to cover their fees. Something like monthly is probably the case.

the amount bdo will be taking out of the cva has been fixed and therefore ukio's admin knows what he is getting.

bdo will also know exactly how much of a profit hmfc are making at the moment. It's in their interest to.

[StevieC]

They will be taking a percentage of the trading profits on a regular basis to cover their fees. Something like monthly is probably the case.

As a matter of interest, how do they calculate the profit and what percentage?

If you take out season ticket money and calculate on walk-ups and commercial income I really can't see how there could be a profit?
If they include the 3,000 season ticket money do they split that into a monthly income (until June?)?
If they are running at a profit, to allow BDO to get paid, why are BDO saying that the money will run out in March?
Could it be the case that BDO are simply taking however much season ticket is needed each month to make that month profitable and get paid? Hence the money (season ticket money?) running out in March?

[jacomo]

I'm not asking you this :-)

So why are BDO not being up front, acknowledging this, and plugging in the liquidiser?

Glad you didn't ask me, I haven't a clue :wink:

There is definitely a culture in the UK of football clubs facing seemingly insurmountable problems and living to fight another day. They just find another mug to put some money in.

BDO were appointed by the Lithuanian courts though weren't they? It was rumoured they were trying to get £5m for HMFC as a going concern. Having failed to get anything close to that, I do wonder what their strategy is but other more informed posters on here have expressed opinions on that.

[Deansy]

:agree:
This is the best bit,myself and others have pointed this out to yams on the EEN/Scotsman forums.
The usual reply involves a group of numbers or wee team/hobo,it was worth it,mr Romanov and so on and so on.......
Liquadation will come one day and the longer it takes,the better IMO:greengrin

I'm looking forward to the day when ALL of Vlad's 'Dodgy-stuff' is finally traced and revealed - one report/article estimated as much as 4 years but it'll be well-worth the wait. The Muppets are s*****g themselves just now over relegation/Liquidation but none of them seem to have given any thought of when THAT day comes. 'Relegation/Liquidation will pale into insignificance IF/WHEN (and I know what my money's on) it's discovered any of it actually went through their books !!! ('went through their books' as in 'machine-washed' :wink:).

Anyone know the actions available when a club is found to have benefitted from 'Illegal/Criminal' means ??

[jacomo]

Anyone know the actions available when a club is found to have benefitted from 'Illegal/Criminal' means ??

Presumably individual employees could be pursued through the courts?

No one ever mentions Fedotovas these days, but he was on the board of both Hearts and UBIG, was clearly Romanov's trusted link man between the two. If there was any illegal activity using Hearts then he would surely be the main man.

How much did Southern know?

[Leithenhibby]

It must be getting closer to end game! Surely :wink:

11859

[jgl07]

As a matter of interest, how do they calculate the profit and what percentage?

If you take out season ticket money and calculate on walk-ups and commercial income I really can't see how there could be a profit?
If they include the 3,000 season ticket money do they split that into a monthly income (until June?)?
If they are running at a profit, to allow BDO to get paid, why are BDO saying that the money will run out in March?
Could it be the case that BDO are simply taking however much season ticket is needed each month to make that month profitable and get paid? Hence the money (season ticket money?) running out in March?
BDO will take their fee from the money raised by the sale of the club (or its assets).

I don't think that Hearts are obliged to run at a profit but they must cover all expenditure with income or the bills/wages cannot be paid. If there is cash in the bank (from season ticket sales etc.) there is no need for current income to match current expenditure.

If they are on the point of running out of cash, however things will be different. The correct approach would surely be to go for liquidation as happened with Rangers.

This will happen if or when it becomes clear that they cannot get hold of the shares or the money has gone.

BDO will get their fee as long as the CVA or the value of the assets are sufficient.

[Gus Fring]

BDO will take their fee from the money raised by the sale of the club (or its assets).

I don't think that Hearts are obliged to run at a profit but they must cover all expenditure with income or the bills/wages cannot be paid. If there is cash in the bank (from season ticket sales etc.) there is no need for current income to match current expenditure.

If they are on the point of running out of cash, however things will be different. The correct approach would surely be to go for liquidation as happened with Rangers.

This will happen if or when it becomes clear that they cannot get hold of the shares or the money has gone.

BDO will get their fee as long as the CVA or the value of the assets are sufficient.

This isn't strictly true. BDO's fee is split into 2 parts. Pre-CVA and Post CVA. You are correct that BDO's pre-CVA fees will deducted from the sale to FOH but all fee's accrued after the day the CVA was agreed are coming out of Hearts ongoing operating funds.

[JeMeSouviens]

This isn't strictly true. BDO's fee is split into 2 parts. Pre-CVA and Post CVA. You are correct that BDO's pre-CVA fees will deducted from the sale to FOH but all fee's accrued after the day the CVA was agreed are coming out of Hearts ongoing operating funds.

Although, iirc, money from next year's STs was specifically excluded from that agreement and is to stay with the Yams.

[Jack]

BDO will take their fee from the money raised by the sale of the club (or its assets).

I don't think that Hearts are obliged to run at a profit but they must cover all expenditure with income or the bills/wages cannot be paid. If there is cash in the bank (from season ticket sales etc.) there is no need for current income to match current expenditure.

If they are on the point of running out of cash, however things will be different. The correct approach would surely be to go for liquidation as happened with Rangers.

This will happen if or when it becomes clear that they cannot get hold of the shares or the money has gone.

BDO will get their fee as long as the CVA or the value of the assets are sufficient.

It was part of the provisional CVA that a line was drawn in the sand for fees to that point in time, after that their fee was to come from running costs. This amendment added by UKIO or UBIG admin, obviously so they got at least something.

I think its unlikely BDO will be saving up their fee notes waiting for a big pay day.

There's also been a big push, by BDO in particular, to up the match day income.

2+2=4ish?

[Gus Fring]

Billy "I've been places" Brown is staying where he is for another month.

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/hearts/261892-billy-brown-offered-one-month-deal-to-stay-with-hearts-for-cup-semi-final/

Pressure from the "footballing staff" I'm told. BDO still not happy.

[jakeshibs]

Had enough of the YAMS and want them gone now, liquidated, end of never to return!!! when will this day come, want it more than ever now!!!!

[hibees 7062]

http://www.bbc.co.uk..._medium=twitter (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25914429?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter) Looking to sign an U21's player before the weekend

[Jack]

Billy "I've been places" Brown is staying where he is for another month.

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/hearts/261892-billy-brown-offered-one-month-deal-to-stay-with-hearts-for-cup-semi-final/

Pressure from the "footballing staff" I'm told. BDO still not happy.

"Gary Locke's number two was due to leave ...

The **** that wouldn't flush!

Hopefully he's not got a gagging order and there will be a few classic rants over the next few weeks.

Interesting about the old goalie giving up his registration for Hooter. I think that leaves them with only two keepers, a bit short in my opinion.

I think on that basis their request should be rejected.

[Saorsa]

http://www.bbc.co.uk..._medium=twitter (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25914429?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter) Looking to sign an U21's player before the weekendThey just dinnae care do they, as if there isnae enough young victims of health and safety, they're going tae make another young 'kid' suffer the same fate.

[greenlex]

Billy "I've been places" Brown is staying where he is for another month.

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/hearts/261892-billy-brown-offered-one-month-deal-to-stay-with-hearts-for-cup-semi-final/

Pressure from the "footballing staff" I'm told. BDO still not happy.Anyone else giggle like a schoolboy when reading the term Gary Lockes number 2? :tee hee:

[Mikey]

Anyone else giggle like a schoolboy when reading the term Gary Lockes number 2? :tee hee:

Gary Locke's number 2 is brown.......

[Ozyhibby]

Had enough of the YAMS and want them gone now, liquidated, end of never to return!!! when will this day come, want it more than ever now!!!!

You must really hate Billy Brown.

[greenginger]

Trying to read the BDO report from the CVA meeting to get the real meaning of where the costs were to be met from and still not 100% sure.

But, did notice another clause that gave me a nice warm feeling inside.

Clause A)
a) At the end of Clause 5.1 insert the following wording.

" The delivery of the shareholdings held by the Ukio Bankas and UBIG may also be dependent of the approval of the respective creditors of each of the bankruptcy estates and/or the Lithuanian Court, under the laws of Lithuania. "

So the CVA does not even tie down the Ukio Bankas shares and they have still to elect a new creditor committee.

The Rubber Stamp needs to go back in the drawer I think. :greengrin

[Gus Fring]

So if Billy Brown is a Number 2, does that make Gary Locke a number 1? :greengrin

[lapsedhibee]

Billy "I've been places" Brown is staying where he is for another month.

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/hearts/261892-billy-brown-offered-one-month-deal-to-stay-with-hearts-for-cup-semi-final/

Pressure from the "footballing staff" I'm told. BDO still not happy.

"as they wait on word from Lithuania to bring the capital club out of administration"

Aye, the phone could ring any moment. :faf:

[Spike Mandela]

There was me thinking Jeremy Paxman was tellling the story of the First World War tonight in the Great War. EEN put me straight:faf:.............

Evening News Sport (@edinburghsport)
27/01/2014 18:05
Jeremy Paxman tells the story of Hearts FC in the Great War. Tonight, BBC1 9pm.

[Bristolhibby]

Trying to read the BDO report from the CVA meeting to get the real meaning of where the costs were to be met from and still not 100% sure.

But, did notice another clause that gave me a nice warm feeling inside.

Clause A)
a) At the end of Clause 5.1 insert the following wording.

" The delivery of the shareholdings held by the Ukio Bankas and UBIG may also be dependent of the approval of the respective creditors of each of the bankruptcy estates and/or the Lithuanian Court, under the laws of Lithuania. "

So the CVA does not even tie down the Ukio Bankas shares and they have still to elect a new creditor committee.

The Rubber Stamp needs to go back in the drawer I think. :greengrin

Very appropriate that the clause is clause 5.1. Seeing as they have an infatuation with that number.

Rudi would be so very proud.

J

[Ronniekirk]

Had enough of the YAMS and want them gone now, liquidated, end of never to return!!! when will this day come, want it more than ever now!!!!

I wouldn't put all your eggs in the one basket .what ever happens ,happens just keep enjoying there predicament.Its not going anywhere fast

[Onion]

Trying to read the BDO report from the CVA meeting to get the real meaning of where the costs were to be met from and still not 100% sure.

But, did notice another clause that gave me a nice warm feeling inside.

Clause A)
a) At the end of Clause 5.1 insert the following wording.

" The delivery of the shareholdings held by the Ukio Bankas and UBIG may also be dependent of the approval of the respective creditors of each of the bankruptcy estates and/or the Lithuanian Court, under the laws of Lithuania. "

So the CVA does not even tie down the Ukio Bankas shares and they have still to elect a new creditor committee.

The Rubber Stamp needs to go back in the drawer I think. :greengrin

How ironic if it was 5.1 that put them out of business :thumbsup:

Note to self: read all preceding posts before opening gob.

[Brooster]

I very seldom have the misfortune of coming into contact with yams, primarily because I hate them but it happened to me twice today. First up were 2 gobby cranks on the 22 bus at stenhouse returning from their cleaning job this morning talking about the semi final......the first one bragging how hes saving £20 by watching it on the tv.....the 2nd one gutted at spending £20 because he didn't realise it was on the tv. Then tonight in York barbers where one complete roaster 'cant wait until the new regime take over' before he asked for his eyebrows to be trimmed to a number 4. Pull the plug on them please.

[lapsedhibee]

There was me thinking Jeremy Paxman was tellling the story of the First World War tonight in the Great War. EEN put me straight:faf:.............

Evening News Sport (@edinburghsport)
27/01/2014 18:05
Jeremy Paxman tells the story of Hearts FC in the Great War. Tonight, BBC1 9pm.

EEN is so bad. It couldn't have been spoofed any better than that.

[SurferRosa]

So despite BDO trying to punt Broon out the door, he`s hanging on in there. Good for him because apart from the fact that he`s utterly hopeless, that`s another months wages pished up the wall.

[Kato]

Very appropriate that the clause is clause 5.1. Seeing as they have an infatuation with that number.

Rudi would be so very proud.

J

karma

[cabbageandribs1875]

Billy "I've been places" Brown is staying where he is for another month.

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/hearts/261892-billy-brown-offered-one-month-deal-to-stay-with-hearts-for-cup-semi-final/

Pressure from the "footballing staff" I'm told. BDO still not happy.


sounds like it's hertz that are running the show and not the admins

[Gus Fring]

sounds like it's hertz that are running the show and not the admins

In terms of football that's the way it should be. The back room team have convinced BDO that Billy Brown is essential.

[portycabbage]

I very seldom have the misfortune of coming into contact with yams, primarily because I hate them but it happened to me twice today. First up were 2 gobby cranks on the 22 bus at stenhouse returning from their cleaning job this morning talking about the semi final......the first one bragging how hes saving £20 by watching it on the tv.....the 2nd one gutted at spending £20 because he didn't realise it was on the tv. Then tonight in York barbers where one complete roaster 'cant wait until the new regime take over' before he asked for his eyebrows to be trimmed to a number 4. Pull the plug on them please.

:tee hee:
Presumably they'll be easier to raise when the (ahem) "new regime takes over".

[brog]

[QUOTE=greenginger;3886253]Trying to read the BDO report from the CVA meeting to get the real meaning of where the costs were to be met from and still not 100% sure.

I had/have similar problems. I still find it hard to believe however that BDO are currently being paid their fees from any operating surplus at PBS. As I posted earlier, a surplus one week may easily be a larger deficit the next week. The only numbers we're sure of re BDO are that their costs were £192k for the first 30 days of admin, that's £6.4k a day. If we say their billing costs post CVA are only 15% of month 1, then thats still the thick end of a grand a day. Does anyone really think that Yams are currently in surplus to the tune of £30k each month? With the unbudgeted sale of Adam King a surplus at the end of the admin period is now more likely & I believe that is when the bill will be presented although its possible that expenses, which were only £3k for month 1 could be getting paid now. Still, the fun continues!

[cabbageandribs1875]

In terms of football that's the way it should be. The back room team have convinced BDO that Billy Brown is essential.


because he's been places and aw that :greengrin hope he's been to the docs for some blood pressure tabs

[StevieC]

I had/have similar problems. I still find it hard to believe however that BDO are currently being paid their fees from any operating surplus at PBS. As I posted earlier, a surplus one week may easily be a larger deficit the next week.

I said previously that I think they are using the season ticket money, they received after administration, to cover any shortfall and pay for their ongoing fees.

I would have guessed that the ST money might have been close to £800k and could cover any trading shortfall for a number of months (initially quoted as December/January and now quoted as February/March).

Like the LIDL special offers though .. once it's gone, it's gone!

[gorgie greens]

I said previously that I think they are using the season ticket money, they received after administration, to cover any shortfall and pay for their ongoing fees.

I would have guessed that the ST money might have been close to £800k and could cover any trading shortfall for a number of months (initially quoted as December/January and now quoted as February/March).

Like the LIDL special offers though .. once it's gone, it's gone!

Hopefully Yogi and his team can kill the cash cow that a Final would bring and put them out there misery once and for all,i f it was a dog it would have been put down months ago.

[The Sea-gull]

I see they are trying to make space for Big Beak under the 1 in 1 out system by releasing reserve goalie Alan Combe and just making him a keeper coach. Maybe all clubs would do the same in their situation but it just seems that if there is a rule to be bent, Hearts will bend it to braking point.

From the apparent delaying of admin till June so that they wouldn't be relegated last season, to the rearranging a game so Stevenson can play in the semi and now this. Who is driving this rule bending behind the scenes? Is it BDO?

As usual I'm a bit confused so maybe someone can help me out by letting me know which of the following, if any, are true:-

1. Hearts can sign players aged 21 and under from February 1st.
2. Hearts can sign players of any age from February 1st as long as one leaves on a like for like basis and it is approved by the authorities.
3. Hearts cannot sign any players until they are out of admin.

If no 2 is true then surely Alan Combe and Rudi Skakel cannot be considered like for like. An aged goalie who has never played for the club versus an established pro who has played dozens of games for then as recently as two years ago? Similarly if the young boy that has played about 2 games for them goes to Swansea, I don't think Skakel should be regarded as a like for like replacement.

I would not have as much of a problem with it if Ryan Stevenson or Jamie Hammil left and Skakel came in.

[Craig_in_Prague]

The rule should be bent to let them sign big beak. With them heading for relegation and liquidation, it makes it sweet with him involved. It also will have 400,000 buying new frillies, helping the retail industry.. though it will offer them a small glimmer of light, before the lights are turned off for good.

[Onion]

Hopefully Yogi and his team can kill the cash cow that a Final would bring and put them out there misery once and for all,i f it was a dog it would have been put down months ago.

:agree: Cup Semi is easily the biggest game of the season for the Yams. Difference between a win and loss is massive. Monday could be fun :flag:

[Spike Mandela]

I see they are trying to make space for Big Beak under the 1 in 1 out system by releasing reserve goalie Alan Combe and just making him a keeper coach. Maybe all clubs would do the same in their situation but it just seems that if there is a rule to be bent, Hearts will bend it to braking point.

From the apparent delaying of admin till June so that they wouldn't be relegated last season, to the rearranging a game so Stevenson can play in the semi and now this. Who is driving this rule bending behind the scenes? Is it BDO?

As usual I'm a bit confused so maybe someone can help me out by letting me know which of the following, if any, are true:-

1. Hearts can sign players aged 21 and under from February 1st.
2. Hearts can sign players of any age from February 1st as long as one leaves on a like for like basis and it is approved by the authorities.
3. Hearts cannot sign any players until they are out of admin.

If no 2 is true then surely Alan Combe and Rudi Skakel cannot be considered like for like. An aged goalie who has never played for the club versus an established pro who has played dozens of games for then as recently as two years ago? Similarly if the young boy that has played about 2 games for them goes to Swansea, I don't think Skakel should be regarded as a like for like replacement.

I would not have as much of a problem with it if Ryan Stevenson or Jamie Hammil left and Skakel came in.

I think it's like this.........

There is a two layer registration embargo in place on Hearts. There was the automatic registration ban from the SPFL for entering administration which remains in place until such times as they exit administration.

The SFA handed out the further sanction of a registration ban until Feb 1st for Hearts entering administration. This ban I think allowed the signing of U21 players if Hearts were out of administration.This ban was designed to make sure that in the wildly ambitious chance that Hearts had exited administration by Christmas they couldn't go in to the next window wildly splashing the cash.

Now we come to the fudge. :greengrin Hearts (with the help of a bleating media about their walking wounded) have been 'invited' by the SPFL to apply to register a player on the one out one in basis. This rule appears so grey that nobody really knows what factors apply. 'Like for like' and 'same wages or less' are the kind of things quoted but make no appearance in the actual rule. It appears to be solely at the discretion of the SPFL board.

The current SPFL Board is made up of Neil Doncaster (CEO), Ralph Topping (Chairman), Eric Riley (Celtic), Stephen Thompson (Dundee United), Duncan Fraser (Aberdeen), Les Gray (Hamilton Academical), Mike Mulraney (Alloa Athletic) and Bill Darroch (Stenhousemuir). Notably no members come from a bottom six club or from League Cup semi final opponents ICT so not sure how they will vote. My gut feeling is someone at the SPFL has advised Hearts to get around embargo in this way so I think they will be sympathetic to any application for a transfer.

Due to the SFA sanction any player allowed to sign under the SPFL fudge cannot be registered until Feb 1st at the earliest but due to offices being closed at weekend this likely won't happen until 3rd Feb which conveniently avoids Hearts LC semi final.

Ultimately an embargo should be an embargo and this confusion could be totally avoided.

[robinp]

I see they are trying to make space for Big Beak under the 1 in 1 out system by releasing reserve goalie Alan Combe and just making him a keeper coach. Maybe all clubs would do the same in their situation but it just seems that if there is a rule to be bent, Hearts will bend it to braking point.

From the apparent delaying of admin till June so that they wouldn't be relegated last season, to the rearranging a game so Stevenson can play in the semi and now this. Who is driving this rule bending behind the scenes? Is it BDO?

As usual I'm a bit confused so maybe someone can help me out by letting me know which of the following, if any, are true:-

1. Hearts can sign players aged 21 and under from February 1st.
2. Hearts can sign players of any age from February 1st as long as one leaves on a like for like basis and it is approved by the authorities.
3. Hearts cannot sign any players until they are out of admin.

If no 2 is true then surely Alan Combe and Rudi Skakel cannot be considered like for like. An aged goalie who has never played for the club versus an established pro who has played dozens of games for then as recently as two years ago? Similarly if the young boy that has played about 2 games for them goes to Swansea, I don't think Skakel should be regarded as a like for like replacement.

I would not have as much of a problem with it if Ryan Stevenson or Jamie Hammil left and Skakel came in.

There are 2 embargos in place, SFA and SPL.

The SFA one runs out start of Feb after the window closes. If they had came out of admin, they would have been allowed to sign U21s this month ONLY. After window closes they can sign over 21s (if they are out of admin).

BUT they can't because:

The SPL embargo runs until they come out of admin. They can only sign players after a hearing application to the league and these applications fall under 3 scenarios, all 3 of which must be vetted and approved by the (now) SPFL board. The rules are:


Except with the consent of the Board and that only where the Board is in its sole
discretion satisfied that:

E16.1 the term of a Player’s contract of service with his Club has expired and
such contract has not been renewed or extended or such a contract has
terminated with the mutual consent in writing of the Club and the Player
concerned and, in either case, the Registration of such Player with the
League in terms of the player Registration, Transfer and Contract
Regulations has been cancelled and a replacement Player is sought to be
registered to replace the Player whose contract has so expired or been
terminated; or

E16.2 where the Player sought to be registered is a temporary replacement for a
goalkeeper who is unable by reason of injury or illness to play and that
only where written confirmation of such inability shall have been obtained
by the Club from a qualified medical practitioner and submitted to the
Board and the Board is satisfied that the Club concerned has no other
goalkeeper who is registered and able to play, and

E16.3 in either case the board is satisfied that notwithstanding the Insolvency
Event it is appropriate that the club concerned be permitted to Register
the player sought to be Registered,

where a Club has taken, suffered or has been subject to an Insolvency Event or
Events or a Group Undertaking of a Club has taken, suffered or has been subject to
an Insolvency Event or Events and the Board has determined that Rule E6 shall
apply, that Club shall not be entitled or permitted to register any Player with the
League and the League shall not register such a Player until the Board is satisfied
that such Insolvency Event or events shall no longer continue or subsist

Rule 1 - Player leaves - out of contract, for cash or mutual consent - they can apply to replace him AFTER he leaves.
Rule 2 - Emergency goalkeeper signing if you have no keeper available.

Keep in mind under both they must apply, and justify why, they should be allowed to sign anybody and the SPFL board have, up to now, been very strict with HOMFC and not given them an inch.

We shall see.

[robinp]

Looking at Rule 3, it would appear to be a caveat which basically suggests that even if either rule 1 or 2 are met, the board can say no if it's not "appropriate".

I couldn't even suggest scenarios which would mean they would come to that conclusion...........perhaps if either a young player, having played a handful of times this season, or a goalkeeper, who is actually a coach and has never played, leaves and they propose to bring in a seasoned pro, international player.:cb:cool2:

[greenginger]

Is it certain that a player " leaving for cash " can be considered as a player leaving by mutual consent.

In other words , by the letter of the law can they really replace a player they choose to sell with a new signing ?

[robinp]

Is it certain that a player " leaving for cash " can be considered as a player leaving by mutual consent.

In other words , by the letter of the law can they really replace a player they choose to sell with a new signing ?

Very good spot! There is actually no mention of sale of player in Rule 1. On second reading it's mutual consent or end of contract, the last sentence is very clear:

a replacement Player is sought to be
registered to replace the Player whose contract has so expired or been
terminated
:thumbsup:

[CallumLaidlaw]

Apparently they will apply to get an under 21 striker in this week as a replacement for King

[Saorsa]

Apparently they will apply to get an under 21 striker in this week as a replacement for KingNot sure they can dae that as per the post above. Cannae wait for them tae get another slap in the chops from the SPFL

[Bill Milne]

I imagine Hertz will try to replace Adam King with Skacel. I trust the SPFL board won't be conned into accepting this as "like for like".

[O'Rourke3]

According to today's hootsman they are hoping to have an U21 in time for the semi final. Does the League Cup have no cut off date for signings/registrations then? I would have thought there were rules in place to avoid last minute parachuting in of new players to try and seed the tie :dunno:.

Any of the rules experts explain?

[Ronniekirk]

Not sure they can dae that as per the post above. Cannae wait for them tae get another slap in the chops from the SPFL

Cheats keep on cheating .If they think they can get away with brining someone in for cup semi final they really are chancres .Hope the powers that be don't even convene a meeting to discuss it till after the semi .

[GloryGlory]

Apparently they will apply to get an under 21 striker in this week as a replacement for King

Aye, but what about the poor laddie's Health and Safety? :greengrin

[BH Hibs]

I imagine Hertz will try to replace Adam King with Skacel. I trust the SPFL board won't be conned into accepting this as "like for like".

No as already posted they are going one better in the cheating stakes by trying to bring in the beak to replace semi retired Alan Combe. Their cheating knows no limits

[truehibernian]

Michael N'goo has been released by Liverpool I see - may go for him if he still qualifies through age (I think he does). However does it not need to be on the same terms as King was (or no better) ??

[truehibernian]

..can I just add that I hope they do because he is terrible :greengrin:aok:

[NadeAteMyLunch!]

They brought in N'Goo just in time for their semi against ICT last season and he conveniently scored their only goal of the game. No doubt hoping for a similar scenario this year. Cheats

[BH Hibs]

..can I just add that I hope they do because he is terrible :greengrin:aok:

He's worse than Nade he's Michael Ngoo :lolyam:

[Caversham Green]

There are 2 embargos in place, SFA and SPL.

The SFA one runs out start of Feb after the window closes. If they had came out of admin, they would have been allowed to sign U21s this month ONLY. After window closes they can sign over 21s (if they are out of admin).

BUT they can't because:

The SPL embargo runs until they come out of admin. They can only sign players after a hearing application to the league and these applications fall under 3 scenarios, all 3 of which must be vetted and approved by the (now) SPFL board. The rules are:



Rule 1 - Player leaves - out of contract, for cash or mutual consent - they can apply to replace him AFTER he leaves.
Rule 2 - Emergency goalkeeper signing if you have no keeper available.

Keep in mind under both they must apply, and justify why, they should be allowed to sign anybody and the SPFL board have, up to now, been very strict with HOMFC and not given them an inch.

We shall see.

These exception clauses are usually safety nets to be used in emergency situations - in this case if HoMFC (IA) were to find themselves unavoidably unable to field a team. Neither the sale of King nor the cancellation of Combe's contract are unavoidable and I would hope HoMFC (IA)'s application will be seen for what it is - them trying it on - and dealt with accordingly.

I do think Doncaster would have been better keeping his mouth shut, because it's now seen by some as a foregone conclusion that replacements will be allowed.

[Bill Milne]

No as already posted they are going one better in the cheating stakes by trying to bring in the beak to replace semi retired Alan Combe. Their cheating knows no limits

I didn't see that. Nonetheless, it can hardly be described as "like for like" to replace a goalie who has never played for an experienced midfielder, however short of match practice.

[IWasThere2016]

These exception clauses are usually safety nets to be used in emergency situations - in this case if HoMFC (IA) were to find themselves unavoidably unable to field a team. Neither the sale of King nor the cancellation of Combe's contract are unavoidable and I would hope HoMFC (IA)'s application will be seen for what it is - them trying it on - and dealt with accordingly.

I do think Doncaster would have been better keeping his mouth shut, because it's now seen by some as a foregone conclusion that replacements will be allowed.

:top marks

[Gus Fring]

These exception clauses are usually safety nets to be used in emergency situations - in this case if HoMFC (IA) were to find themselves unavoidably unable to field a team. Neither the sale of King nor the cancellation of Combe's contract are unavoidable and I would hope HoMFC (IA)'s application will be seen for what it is - them trying it on - and dealt with accordingly.

I do think Doncaster would have been better keeping his mouth shut, because it's now seen by some as a foregone conclusion that replacements will be allowed.

I am still firmly of the opinion that Doncaster was baiting them. They'll get knocked back and the marker will be set. "Keep running your clubs like this and you'll be dealt with"

[The Sea-gull]

I think it's like this.........

There is a two layer registration embargo in place on Hearts. There was the automatic registration ban from the SPFL for entering administration which remains in place until such times as they exit administration.

The SFA handed out the further sanction of a registration ban until Feb 1st for Hearts entering administration. This ban I think allowed the signing of U21 players if Hearts were out of administration.This ban was designed to make sure that in the wildly ambitious chance that Hearts had exited administration by Christmas they couldn't go in to the next window wildly splashing the cash.

Now we come to the fudge. :greengrin Hearts (with the help of a bleating media about their walking wounded) have been 'invited' by the SPFL to apply to register a player on the one out one in basis. This rule appears so grey that nobody really knows what factors apply. 'Like for like' and 'same wages or less' are the kind of things quoted but make no appearance in the actual rule. It appears to be solely at the discretion of the SPFL board.

The current SPFL Board is made up of Neil Doncaster (CEO), Ralph Topping (Chairman), Eric Riley (Celtic), Stephen Thompson (Dundee United), Duncan Fraser (Aberdeen), Les Gray (Hamilton Academical), Mike Mulraney (Alloa Athletic) and Bill Darroch (Stenhousemuir). Notably no members come from a bottom six club or from League Cup semi final opponents ICT so not sure how they will vote. My gut feeling is someone at the SPFL has advised Hearts to get around embargo in this way so I think they will be sympathetic to any application for a transfer.

Due to the SFA sanction any player allowed to sign under the SPFL fudge cannot be registered until Feb 1st at the earliest but due to offices being closed at weekend this likely won't happen until 3rd Feb which conveniently avoids Hearts LC semi final.

Ultimately an embargo should be an embargo and this confusion could be totally avoided.

Thanks. all seems clear as mud. :greengrin

[jacomo]

I am still firmly of the opinion that Doncaster was baiting them. They'll get knocked back and the marker will be set. "Keep running your clubs like this and you'll be dealt with"

Maybe, but to what end? The authorities don't want to get involved in this debacle any more than necessary.

I'm pretty firmly of the opinion that Doncaster should always keep his mouth shut and, indeed, go and get another job elsewhere. The rebranding is just the latest deeply underwhelming, possibly even counter productive, initiative from this man.

[brog]

Apparently they will apply to get an under 21 striker in this week as a replacement for King


The DR is talking this up today & even suggesting the player could feature in the semi. That would be some feat, even assuming they are allowed the one in, one out scenario they can't do anything before Feb 1, a Saturday. Do we really think the SPFL will open especially to register a player? ICT's lawsuit would land on the mat at the same time!
Totally agree other comments re Doncaster though, so busy trying to be clever with the rules he may have boxed himself in. I hope Bajillions is right ( as usual ) & they're sent packing again.
PS, I have a friend at Swindon & he thinks Ngoo is heading there.

[Gus Fring]

Maybe, but to what end? The authorities don't want to get involved in this debacle any more than necessary.

I'm pretty firmly of the opinion that Doncaster should always keep his mouth shut and, indeed, go and get another job elsewhere. The rebranding is just the latest deeply underwhelming, possibly even counter productive, initiative from this man.

Doncaster is just the front line. The 'face' of the SPFL. The leagues are still run by the clubs. If they wanted him gone or if they disagreed with his decisions they can simply vote against them.

[#FromTheCapital]

The DR is talking this up today & even suggesting the player could feature in the semi. That would be some feat, even assuming they are allowed the one in, one out scenario they can't do anything before Feb 1, a Saturday. Do we really think the SPFL will open especially to register a player? ICT's lawsuit would land on the mat at the same time!
Totally agree other comments re Doncaster though, so busy trying to be clever with the rules he may have boxed himself in. I hope Bajillions is right ( as usual ) & they're sent packing again.
PS, I have a friend at Swindon & he thinks Ngoo is heading there.

They can try to bring in an under 21 player using the one out one in rule now if they want. They only need to wait until next Monday to try and sign over 21's.

[jacomo]

Doncaster is just the front line. The 'face' of the SPFL. The leagues are still run by the clubs. If they wanted him gone or if they disagreed with his decisions they can simply vote against them.

Yes this is true but his is still a leadership role - or should be. This is especially necessary in a membership organisation where each member of the Board brings their own vested interests to the table.

The lack of a commercial sponsor this season is a glaring miss, and firmly within Doncaster's responsibilities.

[Spike Mandela]

They can try to bring in an under 21 player using the one out one in rule now if they want. They only need to wait until next Monday to try and sign over 21's.

Not sure that's right. The SFA embargo allowed Hearts the possibility to sign an U21 player before Feb 1st but only IF they were out of administration due to the automatic embargo by the SPFL.

Edit. Reread your post and agree you are right they can TRY. Confusing isn't it.

[Gus Fring]

There's a lot of confusion in the press about this matter and it's confusing some people on here as well. Here's how I see it.



Hearts are currently under 2 embargoes. 1 is from the SPFL and is for the duration of administration, the other is from the SFA and is in place until midnight on the 31st of January.
Hearts can apply to sign a player if they have recently "lost" a player. As it stands they haven't "lost" anyone yet. As far as I'm aware Adam King is still a registered Hearts player just now.
The "One Out, One In" rule is an SPFL rule. It has no bearing on the SFA embargo which effectively trumps the current SPFL embargo.
Hearts need to make it clear to the SPFL which player they are replacing and they need to present a copy of the new players contract. A meeting will then be set by the board for a panel of 3 people to decide whether or not this registration should go ahead.
The SPFL can meet and make the decision before the SFA embargo is lifted if they want but if the decided the registration should go ahead that wouldn't take effect until after the SFA embargo has been lifted.

[Spike Mandela]

There's a lot of confusion in the press about this matter and it's confusing some people on here as well. Here's how I see it.



Hearts are currently under 2 embargoes. 1 is from the SPFL and is for the duration of administration, the other is from the SFA and is in place until midnight on the 31st of January.
Hearts can apply to sign a player if they have recently "lost" a player. As it stands they haven't "lost" anyone yet. As far as I'm aware Adam King is still a registered Hearts player just now.
The "One Out, One In" rule is an SPFL rule. It has no bearing on the SFA embargo which effectively trumps the current SPFL embargo.
Hearts need to make it clear to the SPFL which player they are replacing and they need to present a copy of the new players contract. A meeting will then be set by the board for a panel of 3 people to decide whether or not this registration should go ahead.
The SPFL can meet and make the decision before the SFA embargo is lifted if they want but if the decided the registration should go ahead that wouldn't take effect until after the SFA embargo has been lifted.


On the last point the SFA embargo allows the signing of U21 players so if The SPFL make the decision they can sign an U21 player before SFA embargo is lifted.

[Saorsa]

There's a lot of confusion in the press about this matter and it's confusing some people on here as well. Here's how I see it.



Hearts are currently under 2 embargoes. 1 is from the SPFL and is for the duration of administration, the other is from the SFA and is in place until midnight on the 31st of January.
Hearts can apply to sign a player if they have recently "lost" a player. As it stands they haven't "lost" anyone yet. As far as I'm aware Adam King is still a registered Hearts player just now.
The "One Out, One In" rule is an SPFL rule. It has no bearing on the SFA embargo which effectively trumps the current SPFL embargo.
Hearts need to make it clear to the SPFL which player they are replacing and they need to present a copy of the new players contract. A meeting will then be set by the board for a panel of 3 people to decide whether or not this registration should go ahead.
The SPFL can meet and make the decision before the SFA embargo is lifted if they want but if the decided the registration should go ahead that wouldn't take effect until after the SFA embargo has been lifted.

Will Golden Gary demand that their names are made public, that's what I want tae ken. :agree:

[Mikey09]

I am still firmly of the opinion that Doncaster was baiting them. They'll get knocked back and the marker will be set. "Keep running your clubs like this and you'll be dealt with"


I sincerely hope your last sentence is what they will tell the cheating yams Bajillions. However, having been up in front of the powers that be in Hampden absolutely nothing would surprise me with any decisions they make. There decisions have nothing to do with logic and fairness.

[PatHead]

So in theory Hearts could approach the SPFL as soon as the Adam King transfer is complete and say we want to sign this U21 player. The SPFL could appoint 3 people and hear this on Friday. If the SPFL agree the player could sign on Saturday and be registered for the semi.

Doesn't strike me as very fair.

[Leithenhibby]

So in theory Hearts could approach the SPFL as soon as the Adam King transfer is complete and say we want to sign this U21 player. The SPFL could appoint 3 people and hear this on Friday. If the SPFL agree the player could sign on Saturday and be registered for the semi.

Doesn't strike me as very fair.

I'm not so sure this will happen, or in fact, will be allowed to happen....

edit- Or could happen :wink:

[GreenLake]

I am still firmly of the opinion that Doncaster was baiting them. They'll get knocked back and the marker will be set. "Keep running your clubs like this and you'll be dealt with"

He was either baiting them or abetting them.

[PatHead]

I'm not so sure this will happen, or in fact, will be allowed to happen....

edit- Or could happen :wink:

If it is a loophole I'm sure these gits could exploit it

[BH Hibs]

Will Golden Gary demand that their names are made public, that's what I want tae ken. :agree:

Ah the establishment question. Nah I'd heard he likes being kept in the dark (and pished on):wink:

[Gus Fring]

I'm not so sure this will happen, or in fact, will be allowed to happen....

edit- Or could happen :wink:

I can't say if it will happen but it's definitely allowed to happen.


He was either baiting them or abetting them.

I think if the SPFL wanted to help Hearts they would have done so by now. They've asked for an advance payment and the SPFL told them to bolt. They requested a meeting for a new player a few weeks ago but because Hearts didn't meet all of the requirements they haven't dealt with it yet. They are just sticking to the rules.

[Hibbyradge]

Maybe, but to what end? The authorities don't want to get involved in this debacle any more than necessary.

I'm pretty firmly of the opinion that Doncaster should always keep his mouth shut and, indeed, go and get another job elsewhere. The rebranding is just the latest deeply underwhelming, possibly even counter productive, initiative from this man.

Doncaster et al were getting a kicking from the media at the time, remember.

His statement basically put an end to the "poor wee yams" stories.

[Leithenhibby]

If it is a loophole I'm sure these gits could exploit it

You can put your hoose on that one.... :wink:

[QUOTE=Bajillions;3887427]I can't say if it will happen but it's definitely allowed to happen.

Is it as clear cut as your statement? Here was me thinking it was all very complicated and as long as they were in admin, they can't sign anyone! Except u21's in Feb (start)

I'm away to put the kettle on, ma heids bursting :greengrin

[Mikey]

That's the Adam King transfer confirmed so that money will see them through until the end of the season.

[Moulin Yarns]

That's the Adam King transfer confirmed so that money will see them through until the end of the season.

:gun:the messenger

[Mikey]

:gun:the messenger

I've always thought they would see the season out, it's what happens in the summer that will be important.

I still think their best case scenario is starting their Championship campaign on -15. I can't see them getting anything better than that.

[MB62]

That's the Adam King transfer confirmed so that money will see them through until the end of the season.

£175,000 according to reports last night. Not sure to see them through to the end of the week never mind the season. :greengrin

[Ozyhibby]

Costs more than £600k a month to run Hearts so I don't see how it can last from beginning of March till the end of the season?

[soupy]

Costs more than £600k a month to run Hearts so I don't see how it can last from beginning of March till the end of the season?

Surely not that much, where's the £6m came for say the last 10 months??

Not saying your wrong btw...

[Mikey]

Costs more than £600k a month to run Hearts so I don't see how it can last from beginning of March till the end of the season?

Are you sure? Sounds like a .net or 19pointsback myth :greengrin

[Ozyhibby]

I admit I made it up but based on their normal turnover of about £7m a year

[nribs]

£175,000 according to reports last night. Not sure to see them through to the end of the week never mind the season. :greengrin
To be paid imediatly? Not in instalments or based on games paid etc? Is this like the 200k we paid for Collins?

[Paisley Hibby]

If it is a loophole I'm sure these gits could exploit it

They will exploit any hole available :cb

[Jack Hackett]

They will exploit any hole available :cb

Ooh you are awful.... but I like you :greengrin

[HIBERNIAN-0762]

If it is a loophole I'm sure these gits could exploit it

They will, there is no end to them trying to bend the rules to suit themselves, all this pash with Combe moving aside so they can free up a loophole to let Pinocchio in makes my blood boil and if this does happen I really do hope other teams in the SPFL will kick up a stink about it.

Absolute heinous club.

[itslegaltender]

a mate of mines laddie is playing at half time tomorrow at Swynie. He is having to shell out for a ticket for him and the laddie! Obviously needing money for Bignoses salary.

[Bostonhibby]

If it is a loophole I'm sure these gits could exploit it

:agree:yep, the tincastle tapeworms, if there's a hole they will slip right through it................

[hibees 7062]

They will, there is no end to them trying to bend the rules to suit themselves, all this pash with Combe moving aside so they can free up a loophole to let Pinocchio in makes my blood boil and if this does happen I really do hope other teams in the SPFL will kick up a stink about it.

Absolute heinous club.

They should make him play in goals :greengrin

[Kaiser1962]

Are you sure? Sounds like a .net or 19pointsback myth :greengrin

Prior to admin it cost over £1m per month to run Hearts. Some years it was well over.

[HIBERNIAN-0762]

They should make him play in goals :greengrin

:fibber:

:wink:

[Moon unit]

News in!...Blue Circle cement company have put forward a bid for the Yams!
a spokesman said today...there is nothing Concrete yet !!!...:confused:

[21.05.2016]

Personally I hope they do sign Ratcel this window. Seeing that wee rodent in the team that gets relegated would be most pleasurable!

[Gettin' Auld]

News in!...Blue Circle cement company have put forward a bid for the Yams!
a spokesman said today...there is nothing Concrete yet !!!...:confused:

After that........It's you that deserves a 15pt deduction. ;)

[QMU-1875]

I thought selling a player meant they couldn't exploit the loophole? This ruling is a farce.