Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

[hibees 7062]

Where was this bill ? Do you have a link ?

HEARTS staff have been told they will not receive the wages they lost when the club fell into administration.
It is believed staff thought they would be paid backdated salaries by administrators BDO, who will pay players what they are due.
But workers’ hopes of receiving around £50,000 look set to be shattered as they are viewed as creditors and not part of the club’s “football debt”, BDO have declined to comment. Scotsman

[BH Hibs]

HEARTS staff have been told they will not receive the wages they lost when the club fell into administration.
It is believed staff thought they would be paid backdated salaries by administrators BDO, who will pay players what they are due.
But workers’ hopes of receiving around £50,000 look set to be shattered as they are viewed as creditors and not part of the club’s “football debt”, BDO have declined to comment. Scotsman

Surely this would mean further sanctions from the SPFL. I was going to post that this was also morally wrong but that shower gave up on morals a long time ago

[Geo_1875]

Surely this would mean further sanctions from the SPFL. I was going to post that this was also morally wrong but that shower gave up on morals a long time ago

Can't see further sanctions as this is all part of them going into administration.

Might make it hard for them to convince staff to stay on on reduced terms.

[portohibee]

HEARTS staff have been told they will not receive the wages they lost when the club fell into administration.
It is believed staff thought they would be paid backdated salaries by administrators BDO, who will pay players what they are due.But workers’ hopes of receiving around £50,000 look set to be shattered as they are viewed as creditors and not part of the club’s “football debt”, BDO have declined to comment. Scotsman

See this is what I cant get me head round, how can they not pay staff they are due money, presumably because they cant afford to, yet hire the services of Billy 'I've been places Brown' and Jobbie Neilson?
I know morally they dont seem to care, but legally? How do the staff who have not been paid feel when they see new staff being appopinted?

[BH Hibs]

Can't see further sanctions as this is all part of them going into administration.

Might make it hard for them to convince staff to stay on on reduced terms.

Was just thinking that if staff are still due wages their signing ban should continue however if a CVA was successful I suppose it draws a line under it.

[clerriehibs]

HEARTS staff have been told they will not receive the wages they lost when the club fell into administration.
It is believed staff thought they would be paid backdated salaries by administrators BDO, who will pay players what they are due.
But workers’ hopes of receiving around £50,000 look set to be shattered as they are viewed as creditors and not part of the club’s “football debt”, BDO have declined to comment. Scotsman

Who defines what is or isn't "football debt"? Surely not the administrators?

[Part/Time Supporter]

See this is what I cant get me head round, how can they not pay staff they are due money, presumably because they cant afford to, yet hire the services of Billy 'I've been places Brown' and Jobbie Neilson?

I know morally they dont seem to care, but legally? How do the staff who have not been paid feel when they see new staff being appopinted?

It's the other way round. BDO may be able to pay them but they legally can't. The wages that are still due will relate to the month or two before they (formally) went bust, which makes those staff ordinary creditors, like everyone else on that list. If BDO paid those wages to them now that would be illegally giving them a preference over the other creditors.

On the other hand, if FOH are successful in pushing through their takeover, there's nothing to stop them paying bonuses for the same amount at some later date.


Who defines what is or isn't "football debt"? Surely not the administrators?

The SFA. "Football debt" doesn't have any basis in law. It's a condition applied by the SFA to the licence that each club is given to play football, which effectively forces the club to pay those amounts in full.

HMRC have challenged it in England in the past because they feel it gives football clubs and players undue preference over them and others, but a judge ruled against them.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18208076

Here's an argument in favour of the rule:

http://twohundredpercent.net/?p=13120

[greenginger]

"Football debt" doesn't have any basis in law. It's a condition applied by the SFA to the licence that each club is given to play football, which effectively forces the club to pay those amounts in full.

HMRC have challenged it in England in the past because they feel it gives football clubs and players undue preference over them and others, but a judge ruled against them.


The football creditor rule may count against the Yams when it comes to the creditors vote on the 22nd.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/helpsheets/vas-factsheet.pdf

List for rejecting CVA.

.........conditions requiring debts to members to be paid in full, whether inside or outside of the arrangement

[Treadstone]

The SFA. "Football debt" doesn't have any basis in law. It's a condition applied by the SFA to the licence that each club is given to play football, which effectively forces the club to pay those amounts in full.

Here's an argument in favour of the rule:

http://twohundredpercent.net/?p=13120

I know this is from the English FA but very interesting the definition of a 'football creditor'.


Any employee or former employee of a member club of the above (Note :FA and Leagues from Premier League to The Isthmian League), in terms of their salary or expenses. Regardless of whether they are full time or part time or part of the playing staff or not.

[jacomo]

I know this is from the English FA but very interesting the definition of a 'football creditor'.

That doesn't include debts owed to other football clubs, for unpaid transfer fees or whatever, or the large chunk HMFC owe Liverpool FC.

[green glory]

@jamiekborthwick: UBIG enter insolvency in Kaunas today. Imaginatively titled 'Bankruptcy Administration Services' appointed. Decision cannot be appealed.

[s.a.m]

@jamiekborthwick: UBIG enter insolvency in Kaunas today. Imaginatively titled 'Bankruptcy Administration Services' appointed. Decision cannot be appealed.

http://www.microsofttranslator.com/BV.aspx?ref=IE8Activity&a=http%3A%2F%2Fvz.lt%2Farticle%2F2013%2F11%2F11%2F ubig-bankrota-administruos-bankroto-administravimo-paslaugos

I'm struggling to make sense of this translation. Looks like UAB have been knocked back as administrators. I think*.:confused: Not sure who has been appointed, though.

* I'm assuming that the JSC in the translation is the equivalent of UAB in the original. Here's the link for all you Lithuanian speakers:
http://vz.lt/article/2013/11/11/ubig-bankrota-administruos-bankroto-administravimo-paslaugos

[Ozyhibby]

So the new admin has 11 days to get to grips with Ubigs books and then vote on a potential CVA?

[PatHead]

http://www.microsofttranslator.com/BV.aspx?ref=IE8Activity&a=http%3A%2F%2Fvz.lt%2Farticle%2F2013%2F11%2F11%2F ubig-bankrota-administruos-bankroto-administravimo-paslaugos

I'm struggling to make sense of this translation. Looks like UAB have been knocked back as administrators. I think*.:confused: Not sure who has been appointed, though.

* I'm assuming that the JSC in the translation is the equivalent of UAB in the original. Here's the link for all you Lithuanian speakers:
http://vz.lt/article/2013/11/11/ubig-bankrota-administruos-bankroto-administravimo-paslaugos

Are they the ones BDO wanted or the "goodies" who may vote against the CVA does anyone know?

[greenginger]

Are they the ones BDO wanted or the "goodies" who may vote against the CVA does anyone know?


http://www.lrytas.lt/-13841836291382852170-kei%C4%8Diasi-%C5%ABbig-bankroto-administratorius.htm


Thats one of the local rags version of the court decision.

It does not mention any Yam connections though. :greengrin

[WindyMiller]

As far as I can see The Insolvency (Scotland) Rules 1986 apply to Hearts (see the administrators proposals).

Part 7, Chapter 1 (Meetings), Paragraph 7.12 states:
7.12 Resolutions
(1) Subject to any contrary provision in the Act or the Rules, at any meeting of creditors, contributories ormembers of a company, a resolution is passed when a majority in value of those voting, in person or by proxy, have voted in favour of it. 50% rule
(2) In a voluntary arrangement, at a creditors' meeting for any resolution to pass, approving any proposal or modification, there must be at least three quarters in value of the creditors present or represented and voting, in person or by proxy, in favour of the resolution. 75% rule

I can't believe I just spent 45 mins of my saturday night clarifying this on my iPad! Good night!

There is also a CVA process where you can propose a CVA without being in Administration, a bit like a person would a Trust Deed in Scotland or an IVA in England and Wales. I believe the page you link to is the corporate equivalent, from memory it provides no protection from diligence by creditors.




The part I've highlighted has a certain ring to it.

I can't think why?

Can anyone help?

[The_Sauz]

The part I've highlighted has a certain ring to it.

I can't think why?

Can anyone help?

Was that not the year that the new bottling plant opened in Gorgie :confused:

[brog]

Was that not the year that the new bottling plant opened in Gorgie :confused:

You're Kidding - right? :wink:

[s.a.m]

http://www.microsofttranslator.com/BV.aspx?ref=IE8Activity&a=http%3A%2F%2Fvz.lt%2Farticle%2F2013%2F11%2F11%2F ubig-bankrota-administruos-bankroto-administravimo-paslaugos

I'm struggling to make sense of this translation. Looks like UAB have been knocked back as administrators. I think*.:confused: Not sure who has been appointed, though.

* I'm assuming that the JSC in the translation is the equivalent of UAB in the original. Here's the link for all you Lithuanian speakers:
http://vz.lt/article/2013/11/11/ubig-bankrota-administruos-bankroto-administravimo-paslaugos


Are they the ones BDO wanted or the "goodies" who may vote against the CVA does anyone know?

Looks like it is UAB:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24901917

Who I think were the 'goodies', from our point of view.

[Kato]

Looks like it is UAB:

So at some point soon should we expect a statement from UAB explaining that UBIG's assets are frozen and control of them is in the hands of the Lithuanian Freud Squad?

[Moon unit]

So at some point soon should we expect a statement from UAB explaining that UBIG's assets are frozen and control of them is in the hands of the Lithuanian Freud Squad?
Sigmund or Lucien?...:wink:

[Jack Hackett]

Sigmund or Lucien?...:wink:

Clement....It's all to do with cooking the books :greengrin

[Kato]

Sigmund or Lucien?...:wink:

Serious. They'll need psychiatric assistance dealing with the Foulkes et al. :wink:

[greenpaper55]

This is the calibre of your typical yam when confronted with paying the football dept and i quote from keekback. "Seriously, FoH should not pay £500k in football debts. Looks like we've got about £20k owed to Scottish Football Clubs. Let the SFA/SPFL take that out of our prize money or whatever at the end of the season. If my direct debit is going towards paying multi million pound Liverpool £45k for no other reason than the goodness of our Hearts then I'd be pretty pissed off "

[Bostonhibby]

This is the calibre of your typical yam when confronted with paying the football dept and i quote from keekback. "Seriously, FoH should not pay £500k in football debts. Looks like we've got about £20k owed to Scottish Football Clubs. Let the SFA/SPFL take that out of our prize money or whatever at the end of the season. If my direct debit is going towards paying multi million pound Liverpool £45k for no other reason than the goodness of our Hearts then I'd be pretty pissed off "

Bit of an oxymoron there:wink: or is it just a moron? Only the yam would believe they somehow have a right to choose:trumpet:

[Col2]

This is the calibre of your typical yam when confronted with paying the football dept and i quote from keekback. "Seriously, FoH should not pay £500k in football debts. Looks like we've got about £20k owed to Scottish Football Clubs. Let the SFA/SPFL take that out of our prize money or whatever at the end of the season. If my direct debit is going towards paying multi million pound Liverpool £45k for no other reason than the goodness of our Hearts then I'd be pretty pissed off "


To be fair why pay what you are due to the non football staff, tax man, police, charities, loads of other businesses and other clubs when it gets in the way of paying for Rudi, the beats, blackie, boydy etc etc

[rcarter1]

It's the other way round. BDO may be able to pay them but they legally can't. The wages that are still due will relate to the month or two before they (formally) went bust, which makes those staff ordinary creditors, like everyone else on that list. If BDO paid those wages to them now that would be illegally giving them a preference over the other creditors.

On the other hand, if FOH are successful in pushing through their takeover, there's nothing to stop them paying bonuses for the same amount at some later date.



The SFA. "Football debt" doesn't have any basis in law. It's a condition applied by the SFA to the licence that each club is given to play football, which effectively forces the club to pay those amounts in full.

HMRC have challenged it in England in the past because they feel it gives football clubs and players undue preference over them and others, but a judge ruled against them.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18208076

Here's an argument in favour of the rule:

http://twohundredpercent.net/?p=13120

Very interesting article. Ultimately however I think while the football debt rule is probably a good thing, I think the tax debt should be added in as 'on par' with the football debt.

[Jonnyboy]

Clement....It's all to do with cooking the books :greengrin

:greengrin :aok:

[Sanger]

Are they the ones BDO wanted or the "goodies" who may vote against the CVA does anyone know?

UBIG's biggest creditor is UKiO who poured loans to Romanov through them. UKIO's biggest creditor is the Lithuanian State so UBIG will vote in-line with UKIO and indications are they will accept CVA given their pursuit of Romanov and co for the £300 million the government pumped into to save the depositors. They see Hearts as innocent victims of the Romanov scam. The game is over.

[Spike Mandela]

UBIG's biggest creditor is UKiO who poured loans to Romanov through them. UKIO's biggest creditor is the Lithuanian State so UBIG will vote in-line with UKIO and indications are they will accept CVA given their pursuit of Romanov and co for the £300 million the government pumped into to save the depositors. They see Hearts as innocent victims of the Romanov scam. The game is over.

Innocent victims? It's like someone breaking in to your house and installing a 52" telly and spending a fortune on other expensive items to make your life better only to find the purchases were secured against your house. Some victims.:rolleyes:

[greenginger]

UBIG's biggest creditor is UKiO who poured loans to Romanov through them. UKIO's biggest creditor is the Lithuanian State so UBIG will vote in-line with UKIO and indications are they will accept CVA given their pursuit of Romanov and co for the £300 million the government pumped into to save the depositors. They see Hearts as innocent victims of the Romanov scam. The game is over.

Our very own HMRC can sink the Yams by themselves, unless of course they also see a thieving, cheating Company as a victim.

[clerriehibs]

Innocent victims? It's like someone breaking in to your house and installing a 52" telly and spending a fortune on other expensive items to make your life better only to find the purchases were secured against your house. Some victims.:rolleyes:

Except they knew what was going on; they just la-la-la'd to themselves.
£9million debt forgiveness?
£20million debt for equity?
The yams have never been worth that.
The missing Gordon transfer £9million income?
Roamingoff may have been using tynecastle as a money washing machine, but they profited from it as well.

[jakeshibs]

can any one decipher all this and explain to me are Hearts going to exists as I hate them with so much passion, hate the cheating and want them to suffer badly then to be no longer. please please please some one punish them and sort this out as -15 points is no where near enough for me.

[Craig_in_Prague]

oh the poor wee lambs, victims? innocent victims, really?

2 cup wins, Champions league games and other Europa league games, all through spending money they didn't have. This is 2nd only to match fixing itself (direct quote from FIFA/UEFA).

They knew what they were doing and they lapped up every damn minute of it (but oh, we were in a mess going to lose Tynecastle anyway, so mad vlad the saviour, let's all get tatoo's of the man).

Stealing from every man and business out there, 'receiving' all the benefits of other peoples work and not paying for hardly anything. Stealing, cheating, shameless club that I can barely even bring myself to talk about anymore when Scottish Football is being discussed.

Hitting rock bottom of Scottish Football, should be the minimum consequence. They should be playing at grounds we've barely heard of, let alone been to. They should be borrowing maps of Scotland from their big cousins to get to games. We shouldn't need to see or hear from them for several years.

THE CLUB WITH NO SHAME!

[#FromTheCapital]

oh the poor wee lambs, victims? innocent victims, really?

2 cup wins, Champions league games and other Europa league games, all through spending money they didn't have. This is 2nd only to match fixing itself (direct quote from FIFA/UEFA).

They knew what they were doing and they lapped up every damn minute of it (but oh, we were in a mess going to lose Tynecastle anyway, so mad vlad the saviour, let's all get tatoo's of the man).

Stealing from every man and business out there, 'receiving' all the benefits of other peoples work and not paying for hardly anything. Stealing, cheating, shameless club that I can barely even bring myself to talk about anymore when Scottish Football is being discussed.

Hitting rock bottom of Scottish Football, should be the minimum consequence. They should be playing at grounds we've barely heard of, let alone been to. They should be borrowing maps of Scotland from their big cousins to get to games. We shouldn't need to see or hear from them for several years.

THE CLUB WITH NO SHAME!

:top marksSpot on.

[heretoday]

Looks like the Hearts will survive and I for one am glad. It gives us the chance to exorcise the cup final demons over the next few years by regularly whacking them. Without Hearts life would be so dull!

[greenginger]

I still find it strange that there has be no mention in the media or by FoH or BDO of the need to get HMRC on side if they want to win the
50% non-connected creditor vote on the 22nd.

Reading again the list of reasons given by HMRC for rejecting a Voluntary Arrangement, HOMFC tick every box.

1. Evasion of statutory liabilities or past associations with contrived insolvency...... How many winding up orders were put on the Yams to make them pay-up, and their player loan scam that required a tribunal.
2. Payment of other creditors while withholding sums due to the crown......All the share issue scam money went back to Lith. and BDO treated it as a repayment to UBIG when sums were due to HMRC under their Tribunal agreement to pay £ 1.5 million in installments.
3. Any proposal that does not provide cash dividends........ I presume that means to ordinary creditors like HMRC as they are getting Zero.
4. Failure to meet obligations under a prior voluntary arrangement....... The arrangement agreed to pay the £ 1.5 million for the player loan scam was never even partially met.
5. A proposal that requires debts owed to members etc. ...whether inside or outside of the Arrangement to be paid in full when all other unsecured creditors are bound to accept a compromise .. etc......... This seems directly aimed at a Football Creditor Agreement which the HMRC seem to object to.

Is it heads in the sand, ignorance or are we missing some loophole ? Insolvency practice seems to be a dark art known only to a few.

[Eternal Hibbie]

Looks like the Hearts will survive and I for one am glad. It gives us the chance to exorcise the cup final demons over the next few years by regularly whacking them. Without Hearts life would be so dull!

Only if we meet them in cup competitions I would imagine.

They are going down and won't be coming back up anytime soon - if they survive this.

:rolleyes:

[Bill Milne]

Does Ryan Stevenson's favourite tattoo parlour come under the term "football debt"?

[brog]

UBIG's biggest creditor is UKiO who poured loans to Romanov through them. UKIO's biggest creditor is the Lithuanian State so UBIG will vote in-line with UKIO and indications are they will accept CVA given their pursuit of Romanov and co for the £300 million the government pumped into to save the depositors. They see Hearts as innocent victims of the Romanov scam. The game is over.

Desanto, I've enjoyed your posts in this thread but you're like someone who's just found God, or in this case the Devil with your sudden conversion to a CVA being a foregone conclusion. I can sum up your posts as Full Speed Ahead - Reverse!!!! Hopefully you're as wrong this time as all your earlier posts ( about Yams fate ) must have been!

[Geo_1875]

UBIG's biggest creditor is UKiO who poured loans to Romanov through them. UKIO's biggest creditor is the Lithuanian State so UBIG will vote in-line with UKIO and indications are they will accept CVA given their pursuit of Romanov and co for the £300 million the government pumped into to save the depositors. They see Hearts as innocent victims of the Romanov scam. The game is over.

I doubt it matters whether they see HoMFC as innocent pawns in Romanovs nefarious dealings. If they are seriously interested in getting the best possible return from his evil empire they cannot possibly consider £2.5m for the ground and £1 for the club as good value. They would surely turn the screw a little bit more.

[Killiehibbie]

I doubt it matters whether they see HoMFC as innocent pawns in Romanovs nefarious dealings. If they are seriously interested in getting the best possible return from his evil empire they cannot possibly consider £2.5m for the ground and £1 for the club as good value. They would surely turn the screw a little bit more.I would like to think they won't accept less than the value of the land the dump sits on.

[Weststandwanab]

I doubt it matters whether they see HoMFC as innocent pawns in Romanovs nefarious dealings. If they are seriously interested in getting the best possible return from his evil empire they cannot possibly consider £2.5m for the ground and £1 for the club as good value. They would surely turn the screw a little bit more. Precisely and they will.

[Islington Hibs]

I doubt it matters whether they see HoMFC as innocent pawns in Romanovs nefarious dealings. If they are seriously interested in getting the best possible return from his evil empire they cannot possibly consider £2.5m for the ground and £1 for the club as good value. They would surely turn the screw a little bit more.

You would have thought so. I have no inside knowledge here but reading the tea leaves it looks like a done deal. Whether they get £2.5m or £4m frankly doesn't matter in the great scheme of things to the creditors and this is a political minefield so I guess they will take the cash and draw a line under it. Those cheats will almost certainly get away with it. (hope I am wrong).

However with luck and probability they will be relegated and given Servco are back they should be down for a couple of seasons. When they get back they will have to live within their means, with an asbestos filled ground that is falling to bits. If the Council bails them out to a plastic fantastic stadium on the outskirts of town as a tenant with Edinburgh Rugby, it will also be pretty soulless for them. Very unlikely the next 10 years will be anything like as good as the last 10 for them.

What really matters however is not them but us. It is high time we put them in their place.

[Deansy]

oh the poor wee lambs, victims? innocent victims, really?

2 cup wins, Champions league games and other Europa league games, all through spending money they didn't have. This is 2nd only to match fixing itself (direct quote from FIFA/UEFA).

They knew what they were doing and they lapped up every damn minute of it (but oh, we were in a mess going to lose Tynecastle anyway, so mad vlad the saviour, let's all get tatoo's of the man).

Stealing from every man and business out there, 'receiving' all the benefits of other peoples work and not paying for hardly anything. Stealing, cheating, shameless club that I can barely even bring myself to talk about anymore when Scottish Football is being discussed.

Hitting rock bottom of Scottish Football, should be the minimum consequence. They should be playing at grounds we've barely heard of, let alone been to. They should be borrowing maps of Scotland from their big cousins to get to games. We shouldn't need to see or hear from them for several years.

THE CLUB WITH NO SHAME!

Yet throughout that 'Money/trophy-Laden' spell, they regularly couldn't pay their players wages - but being 'innocent', not one of them (and remember, there's 400,000 of them PLUS accountants allegedly doing their audits every season !) wondered WHY those facts don't quite balance !!!!

[Geo_1875]

You would have thought so. I have no inside knowledge here but reading the tea leaves it looks like a done deal. Whether they get £2.5m or £4m frankly doesn't matter in the great scheme of things to the creditors and this is a political minefield so I guess they will take the cash and draw a line under it. Those cheats will almost certainly get away with it. (hope I am wrong).

However with luck and probability they will be relegated and given Servco are back they should be down for a couple of seasons. When they get back they will have to live within their means, with an asbestos filled ground that is falling to bits. If the Council bails them out to a plastic fantastic stadium on the outskirts of town as a tenant with Edinburgh Rugby, it will also be pretty soulless for them. Very unlikely the next 10 years will be anything like as good as the last 10 for them.

What really matters however is not them but us. It is high time we put them in their place.

I don't see the political implications. Other than a couple of local trough-swillers getting their pictures in the local rag and an un-minuted meeting between the First Minister and the Lithuanian "ambassador" there has not been any political intervention on either side. If anything it's more of a judicial minefield with the various countries involved in the search for Vlad's billions.

[clerriehibs]

Looks like the Hearts will survive and I for one am glad. It gives us the chance to exorcise the cup final demons over the next few years by regularly whacking them. Without Hearts life would be so dull!

Really? We can't even avoid losing to their boys.

[Pete]

Really? We can't even avoid losing to their boys.

This is a new start though.

If anyone inside the dressing room has an attitude like that, even subconsciously, they won't have for much longer.

[StevieC]

Desanto, I've enjoyed your posts in this thread but you're like someone who's just found God, or in this case the Devil with your sudden conversion to a CVA being a foregone conclusion. I can sum up your posts as Full Speed Ahead - Reverse!!!!

I was thinking the same. :confused:

I'm half expecting him to start arguing with himself "Gollum" style. :wink:

[Dashing Bob S]

I doubt it matters whether they see HoMFC as innocent pawns in Romanovs nefarious dealings. If they are seriously interested in getting the best possible return from his evil empire they cannot possibly consider £2.5m for the ground and £1 for the club as good value. They would surely turn the screw a little bit more.

The idea that Lithunanian authorities consider Hearts as 'innocent pawns' is a completely fanciful one with no basis in reality. As you've said, they'll simply look at the hard, cold numbers, and see what they can get back. Whether Hearts and their apologists like it or not, monies were flowing in and out of their accounts from Romanov's various dealings, and the club and its other officers, will be legally implicated in any fraudulent activities. Ignorance (as to where the money came from and went) is no excuse and Hearts trying to play 'the daft laddie' won't wash with the authorities. If there is to be co-operation with our own tax authorities, I would imagine that wouldn't be good for Hearts - the inland revenue must be sick of clubs using the admin route to bump them.

I think the worst is yet to come for Hearts - I'd be very surprised (but delighted, because I think the FOH plan is ludicrous and unworkable) to see a CVA before Christmas. I anticipate a long administration, followed by more twists in the investigation tale, then liquidation.

[Thecat23]

At first I wanted them dead. Not now, I want then to suffer with such a **** team they will wish they were dead. Hibs are now on the up. Proper management team all the foundations laid in place and Hearts have nothing! We WILL dish out a few good derby doings in the future mark my words. Hearts will never be the team they were!

So sit back enjoy it and let the good time roll :D

[clerriehibs]

At first I wanted them dead. Not now, I want then to suffer with such a **** team they will wish they were dead. Hibs are now on the up. Proper management team all the foundations laid in place and Hearts have nothing! We WILL dish out a few good derby doings in the future mark my words. Hearts will never be the team they were!

So sit back enjoy it and let the good time roll :D

A good few doings? So they're not getting relegated, or will be bouncing right back up, then?

That doesn't sound like as good as dead to me, unfortunately.

[Jim44]

A good few doings? So they're not getting relegated, or will be bouncing right back up, then?

That doesn't sound like as good as dead to me, unfortunately.

I think relegation will be a close run thing between them and Killie. Knowing their undisputed luck, I wouldn'tbe surprised in the slightest if they get there with games to spare. I really don't know any more than anyone elsewhere they are going in terms of administration, CVA or liquidation but I tend to think that they will come out of this, not smeling of roses but in not such a sorry state as an awful lot of people think they will.

[Hermit Crab]

At first I wanted them dead. Not now, I want then to suffer with such a **** team they will wish they were dead. Hibs are now on the up. Proper management team all the foundations laid in place and Hearts have nothing! We WILL dish out a few good derby doings in the future mark my words. Hearts will never be the team they were!

So sit back enjoy it and let the good time roll :D

I stuck my neck out when butcher was first touted for the job weeks ago and said to a few yam colleagues that if butcher got the job then we wouldn't lose to hearts again this season. I stand by that. Butcher won't accept anything less than 100% commitment on the 2nd of jan. This time it's our day. Happy new year yams.

Anyone else think it's going to work out that we get the chance to relegate in march at Tynecastle??

[PapillonVert]

UBIG's biggest creditor is UKiO who poured loans to Romanov through them. UKIO's biggest creditor is the Lithuanian State so UBIG will vote in-line with UKIO and indications are they will accept CVA given their pursuit of Romanov and co for the £300 million the government pumped into to save the depositors. They see Hearts as innocent victims of the Romanov scam. The game is over.

What about the Lithuanian small savers and businesses who have lost everything in the great Romanov fraud? I would imgaine the Lithuanian admins/liquidators might be tempted to put their interests before those of a football club in Scotland.

[greenginger]

What about the Lithuanian small savers and businesses who have lost everything in the great Romanov fraud? I would imgaine the Lithuanian admins/liquidators might be tempted to put their interests before those of a football club in Scotland.

The Ukio creditors have a committee and their admin. said a while back he was referring the FoH offer to them.

May'be they swallowed the victim crap.

I still think the Yams biggest hurdle will be to get HMRC to vote to accept zilch taking account of their past payments behavior and failure to comply with their last HMRC arrangement.

I still can't understand why no media genius has asked BDO if they think HMRC will support the CVA on the 22nd. :confused:

[Ozyhibby]

The Ukio creditors have a committee and their admin. said a while back he was referring the FoH offer to them.

May'be they swallowed the victim crap.

I still think the Yams biggest hurdle will be to get HMRC to vote to accept zilch taking account of their past payments behavior and failure to comply with their last HMRC arrangement.

I still can't understand why no media genius has asked BDO if they think HMRC will support the CVA on the 22nd. :confused:

They don't need HMRC. They only need Ubig and Ukio. That makes up 75% of the vote.

[southsider]

What about the Lithuanian small savers and businesses who have lost everything in the great Romanov fraud? I would imgaine the Lithuanian admins/liquidators might be tempted to put their interests before those of a football club in Scotland.

What about me, you and every other tax payer in the UK getting scammed again by a bunch of thieves, led by my (hope to be ex) MP Murray. He should be sacked for not putting the interests of UK taxpayers first. When he comes to me door at election time he will be told.

[Hermit Crab]

The Ukio creditors have a committee and their admin. said a while back he was referring the FoH offer to them.

May'be they swallowed the victim crap.

I still think the Yams biggest hurdle will be to get HMRC to vote to accept zilch taking account of their past payments behavior and failure to comply with their last HMRC arrangement.

I still can't understand why no media genius has asked BDO if they think HMRC will support the CVA on the 22nd. :confused:

They won't will they? Is it not hmrc policy to vote against cva things?

[Thecat23]

A good few doings? So they're not getting relegated, or will be bouncing right back up, then?

That doesn't sound like as good as dead to me, unfortunately.

We still have at least 2 more games against them. So could easily dish one out in those ones. Always cup comps if they drop. Just because they won't be in the league doesn't mean it's the last we play them.

[greenginger]

They don't need HMRC. They only need Ubig and Ukio. That makes up 75% of the vote.


They also need 50% of the vote of non-connected parties ( can Cav. Cwg, Pts, Robin.p please confirm I'm not mistaken )

Both Ukio and UBIG are connected . HMRC is more than 50% on its own in the non-connected category.

[robinp]

They also need 50% of the vote of non-connected parties ( can Cav. Cwg, Pts, Robin.p please confirm I'm not mistaken )

Both Ukio and UBIG are connected . HMRC is more than 50% on its own in the non-connected category.

I was going to PM this to you but i guess it's worthwhile posting here. This is the Rangers CVA proposal which ultimately failed. Check page 55 of the PDF regarding Requisite Majorities at Creditors’ Meetings which is included as an appendix for information purposes of the creditors for when they vote (so they know the rules and implications): http://scotslawthoughts.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/rangers-cva-proposal.pdf


Paragraphs 2 and 4 state (as I have already posted):
(2) A resolution to approve the proposal or a modification is passed when a majority of
three quarters or more (in value) of those present and voting in person or by proxy
have voted in favour of it.

However Paragraph 4 caveats (as I have already posted):
(4) Any resolution is invalid if those voting against it include more than half in value of the
creditors—
(a) to whom notice of the meeting was sent;
(b) whose votes are not to be left out of account under paragraph (3); and
(c) who are not, to the best of the chairman‘s belief, persons connected with the
company.

I am going to run this by my IP boss on Friday when he is back in. To me the wording is pretty cut and dry. What this says, IMO, is that of the total creditors who are not connected to the club in some way (that definition is a few pages back), if 50% reject the CVA it fails. Green Ginger produced a list and he had worked out that of the 26 million creditors, HMRC represent over 50% of the non-connected creditors by value. i.e. if they reject, it fails (based on the rules I have posted and DP included in their CVA proposal for Rangers too).

[greenginger]

I was going to PM this to you but i guess it's worthwhile posting here. This is the Rangers CVA proposal which ultimately failed. Check page 55 of the PDF regarding Requisite Majorities at Creditors’ Meetings which is included as an appendix for information purposes of the creditors for when they vote (so they know the rules and implications): http://scotslawthoughts.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/rangers-cva-proposal.pdf


Paragraphs 2 and 4 state (as I have already posted):
(2) A resolution to approve the proposal or a modification is passed when a majority of
three quarters or more (in value) of those present and voting in person or by proxy
have voted in favour of it.

However Paragraph 4 caveats (as I have already posted):
(4) Any resolution is invalid if those voting against it include more than half in value of the
creditors—
(a) to whom notice of the meeting was sent;
(b) whose votes are not to be left out of account under paragraph (3); and
(c) who are not, to the best of the chairman‘s belief, persons connected with the
company.

I am going to run this by my IP boss on Friday when he is back in. To me the wording is pretty cut and dry. What this says, IMO, is that of the total creditors who are not connected to the club in some way (that definition is a few pages back), if 50% reject the CVA it fails. Green Ginger produced a list and he had worked out that of the 26 million creditors, HMRC represent over 50% of the connected creditors by value. i.e. if they reject, it fails (based on the rules I have posted and DP included in their CVA proposal for Rangers too),

Thanks, I might call a sports jurno and ask why its being ignored.

[Glesgahibby]

Lots of ifs and buts regarding voting structures,
75 percent ? 1st vote and 50 percent ? Second vote.
lots of UBIG need to vote with UKIO ?
HMRC can scupper the second vote?
Is abstaining the same as a no vote ?
Do UKIO and UBIG creditors vote on how to vote ?
Will football creditors be allowed to vote as there debts,as per CVA(foh) will be paid ?
Will Vlads faraway nest egg company be allowed to vote ?
Will present employees of HMFC(wages) be allowed to vote ?
Will EDC vote and if so will we know how they voted ?
Will yams with no share certicates(in the post since March) be allowed to vote ?
:rolleyes::confused::rolleyes::confused::rolleyes: :confused::rolleyes::confused:

[Hermit Crab]

I was going to PM this to you but i guess it's worthwhile posting here. This is the Rangers CVA proposal which ultimately failed. Check page 55 of the PDF regarding Requisite Majorities at Creditors’ Meetings which is included as an appendix for information purposes of the creditors for when they vote (so they know the rules and implications): http://scotslawthoughts.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/rangers-cva-proposal.pdf


Paragraphs 2 and 4 state (as I have already posted):
(2) A resolution to approve the proposal or a modification is passed when a majority of
three quarters or more (in value) of those present and voting in person or by proxy
have voted in favour of it.

However Paragraph 4 caveats (as I have already posted):
(4) Any resolution is invalid if those voting against it include more than half in value of the
creditors—
(a) to whom notice of the meeting was sent;
(b) whose votes are not to be left out of account under paragraph (3); and
(c) who are not, to the best of the chairman‘s belief, persons connected with the
company.

I am going to run this by my IP boss on Friday when he is back in. To me the wording is pretty cut and dry. What this says, IMO, is that of the total creditors who are not connected to the club in some way (that definition is a few pages back), if 50% reject the CVA it fails. Green Ginger produced a list and he had worked out that of the 26 million creditors, HMRC represent over 50% of the non-connected creditors by value. i.e. if they reject, it fails (based on the rules I have posted and DP included in their CVA proposal for Rangers too).

Daffy time?

[Ozyhibby]

I was going to PM this to you but i guess it's worthwhile posting here. This is the Rangers CVA proposal which ultimately failed. Check page 55 of the PDF regarding Requisite Majorities at Creditors’ Meetings which is included as an appendix for information purposes of the creditors for when they vote (so they know the rules and implications): http://scotslawthoughts.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/rangers-cva-proposal.pdf


Paragraphs 2 and 4 state (as I have already posted):
(2) A resolution to approve the proposal or a modification is passed when a majority of
three quarters or more (in value) of those present and voting in person or by proxy
have voted in favour of it.

However Paragraph 4 caveats (as I have already posted):
(4) Any resolution is invalid if those voting against it include more than half in value of the
creditors—
(a) to whom notice of the meeting was sent;
(b) whose votes are not to be left out of account under paragraph (3); and
(c) who are not, to the best of the chairman‘s belief, persons connected with the
company.

I am going to run this by my IP boss on Friday when he is back in. To me the wording is pretty cut and dry. What this says, IMO, is that of the total creditors who are not connected to the club in some way (that definition is a few pages back), if 50% reject the CVA it fails. Green Ginger produced a list and he had worked out that of the 26 million creditors, HMRC represent over 50% of the non-connected creditors by value. i.e. if they reject, it fails (based on the rules I have posted and DP included in their CVA proposal for Rangers too).

Just had a look on Kickback and they obviously have a positive spin on this. They are claiming that only individuals count in this rule and not companies. Is it possible they are right?

....

Potential hiccups to their CVA are

1. Ukio vote against. Unlikely it seems now.
2. Ubig vote against. Impossible to know yet. They appear to not benefit either way. As their admin still has to generate his own fees I'd be surprised if they were not looking for something from FoH.
3. The 50% of non connected rule. I've only just realised this could come into play. Hopefully it works as we think.
4. The Frozen shares and the legal process in Lithuania. Hopefully Sergey is on the money on this one as it's never been mentioned elsewhere.
Any others?
Is this all just wishful thinking?
Guess we'll find out in the next 9 days.

[Weststandwanab]

The Ukio creditors have a committee and their admin. said a while back he was referring the FoH offer to them.

May'be they swallowed the victim crap.

I still think the Yams biggest hurdle will be to get HMRC to vote to accept zilch taking account of their past payments behavior and failure to comply with their last HMRC arrangement.

I still can't understand why no media genius has asked BDO if they think HMRC will support the CVA on the 22nd. :confused: Because they know the answer H.M.R.C. will not vote to accept.


They don't need HMRC. They only need Ubig and Ukio. That makes up 75% of the vote. Correct.


What about me, you and every other tax payer in the UK getting scammed again by a bunch of thieves, led by my (hope to be ex) MP Murray. He should be sacked for not putting the interests of UK taxpayers first. When he comes to me door at election time he will be told. Remember there is a General Election coming


I was going to PM this to you but i guess it's worthwhile posting here. This is the Rangers CVA proposal which ultimately failed. Check page 55 of the PDF regarding Requisite Majorities at Creditors’ Meetings which is included as an appendix for information purposes of the creditors for when they vote (so they know the rules and implications): http://scotslawthoughts.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/rangers-cva-proposal.pdf


Paragraphs 2 and 4 state (as I have already posted):
(2) A resolution to approve the proposal or a modification is passed when a majority of
three quarters or more (in value) of those present and voting in person or by proxy
have voted in favour of it.

However Paragraph 4 caveats (as I have already posted):
(4) Any resolution is invalid if those voting against it include more than half in value of the
creditors—
(a) to whom notice of the meeting was sent;
(b) whose votes are not to be left out of account under paragraph (3); and
(c) who are not, to the best of the chairman‘s belief, persons connected with the
company.

I am going to run this by my IP boss on Friday when he is back in. To me the wording is pretty cut and dry. What this says, IMO, is that of the total creditors who are not connected to the club in some way (that definition is a few pages back), if 50% reject the CVA it fails. Green Ginger produced a list and he had worked out that of the 26 million creditors, HMRC represent over 50% of the non-connected creditors by value. i.e. if they reject, it fails (based on the rules I have posted and DP included in their CVA proposal for Rangers too). I believe this to be the case.

[Fife-Hibee]

I stuck my neck out when butcher was first touted for the job weeks ago and said to a few yam colleagues that if butcher got the job then we wouldn't lose to hearts again this season. I stand by that. Butcher won't accept anything less than 100% commitment on the 2nd of jan. This time it's our day. Happy new year yams.

Anyone else think it's going to work out that we get the chance to relegate in march at Tynecastle??
So hope your right :-)

[StevieC]

"They don't need HMRC. They only need Ubig and Ukio. That makes up 75% of the vote." - Correct.

"if 50% (of non-connected creditors) reject the CVA it fails.. HMRC represent over 50% of the non-connected creditors" - I believe this to be the case.

You seem to be contradicting yourself? Could you clarify? :confused:

[robinp]

Just had a look on Kickback and they obviously have a positive spin on this. They are claiming that only individuals count in this rule and not companies. Is it possible they are right?


They could well be right (I dont pretend to know everything). :-)

But, following the definition through, as I posted before, connected with the company can mean an associate. Under definition of associate it mentions associated companies.

Im not posting my opinion as fact, just my opinion. I think it could apply, it might not.

[clerriehibs]

We still have at least 2 more games against them. So could easily dish one out in those ones. Always cup comps if they drop. Just because they won't be in the league doesn't mean it's the last we play them.

Unless they're in the same division as us, there won't be 'a good few' anything.

Anyone that thinks the near death of the yams means we'll be giving them a roasting in a regular basis is sadly mistaken. We'll either hardly ever see them, or they'll survive in the top league where, to be honest, hibs have never established superiority over anyone for years and years.

Best prospect all round is to sort them out good and proper in the minimum of one remaining games, and pray that they don't survive in the top league.

[Pete]

Unless they're in the same division as us, there won't be 'a good few' anything.

Anyone that thinks the near death of the yams means we'll be giving them a roasting in a regular basis is sadly mistaken. We'll either hardly ever see them, or they'll survive in the top league where, to be honest, hibs have never established superiority over anyone for years and years.

Best prospect all round is to sort them out good and proper in the minimum of one remaining games, and pray that they don't survive in the top league.

If Terry is given time to get his philosophies over then the days of them dominating "just because they do" will be well and truly over. People can say its nothing but talk but it actually isn't. He's done it with Caley and he can do even more with this club.

I don't believe we have anything to fear from them any more, and that's not even taking their financial constraints into consideration. The day any group of fans starts collectively crapping themselves about their rivals to the point they worry about being in the same league as them is the day to jack it in...or give themselves a slap.

They're going to take a beating from us and after that we will be wanting to play them every week. It's on the cards.

[Deansy]

At first I wanted them dead. Not now, I want then to suffer with such a **** team they will wish they were dead. Hibs are now on the up. Proper management team all the foundations laid in place and Hearts have nothing! We WILL dish out a few good derby doings in the future mark my words. Hearts will never be the team they were!

So sit back enjoy it and let the good time roll :D

Their last 30+ years have been made possible entirely due to cheating. Their younger supporters have never seen the 'Real Hearts', what they're 'capable' of and exactly how low the depths they can (and will !!) sink to .................................... they're about to discover and their 'discoveries' will be our supreme pleasure !!

[greenpaper55]

I can remember them being so bad they got relegated for the first time, none of them ever thought it could happen but lo and behold it happened again a few years later and this time they stayed down for two seasons. That was the real Yams and the crowds were 4 and 5 thousand, all going to come their way , Karma and all that !.

[clerriehibs]

If Terry is given time to get his philosophies over then the days of them dominating "just because they do" will be well and truly over. People can say its nothing but talk but it actually isn't. He's done it with Caley and he can do even more with this club.

I don't believe we have anything to fear from them any more, and that's not even taking their financial constraints into consideration. The day any group of fans starts collectively crapping themselves about their rivals to the point they worry about being in the same league as them is the day to jack it in...or give themselves a slap.

They're going to take a beating from us and after that we will be wanting to play them every week. It's on the cards.

what's on the cards? That hearts are ****ed and we'll be giving them a good few doings? Wrong.

Hertz are either ****ed and are out of the premiership for a few years.

Or they remain in the premiership..

Either way, we won't be giving them a good few doings, because they either won't be playing us or because we don't give ANYONE in the top league regular doings.

People have been dreaming about hertz going bust or just being screwed and us then hammering them regularly. Those dreams are incompatible.

[JeMeSouviens]

what's on the cards? That hearts are ****ed and we'll be giving them a good few doings? Wrong.

Hertz are either ****ed and are out of the premiership for a few years.

Or they remain in the premiership..

Either way, we won't be giving them a good few doings, because they either won't be playing us or because we don't give ANYONE in the top league regular doings.

People have been dreaming about hertz going bust or just being screwed and us then hammering them regularly. Those dreams are incompatible.

Personally, I'd settle for 2 large doings going towards their relegation. Make it so, Tel!

[Weststandwanab]

You seem to be contradicting yourself? Could you clarify? :confused: Certainly sorry. The first point is correct because H.M.R.C. would not be required if UKIO and UBIG vote for a C.V.A. if a C.V.A. is ever produced and the second point I believe to be the case. The contradiction - and I agree there seems to - hinges on the definition and perception of "Connected Persons". F.O.H. may argue that UBIG, UKIO, and possibly other creditors s are connected because they wish a C.V.A. to succeed but H.M.R.C. and other creditors may argue they are not connected because they wish any C.V.A. to fail. This will only become clear - and negotiable - once creditors who are able to vote for or against any C.V.A. that is proposed.

[clerriehibs]

Personally, I'd settle for 2 large doings going towards their relegation. Make it so, Tel!

Top 6 finish might be a requirement for tel, tho ...

[Jack]

Top 6 finish might be a requirement for tel, tho ...

Remember 6th position is just for passing place for where we want to be.

[JeMeSouviens]

Top 6 finish might be a requirement for tel, tho ...

We have 2 derbies before the split.

[clerriehibs]

We have 2 derbies before the split.

We do, sorry, I'm letting my gloom at them most likely slimeing their way out of this get the better of me.

[greenginger]

Certainly sorry. The first point is correct because H.M.R.C. would not be required if UKIO and UBIG vote for a C.V.A. if a C.V.A. is ever produced and the second point I believe to be the case. The contradiction - and I agree there seems to - hinges on the definition and perception of "Connected Persons". F.O.H. may argue that UBIG, UKIO, and possibly other creditors s are connected because they wish a C.V.A. to succeed but H.M.R.C. and other creditors may argue they are not connected because they wish any C.V.A. to fail. This will only become clear - and negotiable - once creditors who are able to vote for or against any C.V.A. that is proposed.


I think you have it the wrong way round. If Ukio , UBIG and Vlad's other companies are shown to be CONNECTED their votes don't count in the 50% assessment and HMRC would have the majority vote and would seal the Yams fate.

The definition of connected persons and companies is long established in HMRC guides and these Companies are Connected.

[Weststandwanab]

I think you have it the wrong way round. If Ukio , UBIG and Vlad's other companies are shown to be CONNECTED their votes don't count in the 50% assessment and HMRC would have the majority vote and would seal the Yams fate.

The definition of connected persons and companies is long established in HMRC guides and these Companies are Connected.Yes that is what I meant sorry I typed to quickly. H.M.R.C. guides are just that a guideline, some creditor may challenge this who knows ?

[Kato]

......if UKIO and UBIG vote for a C.V.A.......

Do UKIO get a vote, what with them being a secured creditor?

[greenginger]

Yes that is what I meant sorry I typed to quickly. H.M.R.C. guides are just that a guideline, some creditor may challenge this who knows ?

The Hearts accounts state Vlad is the ultimate controller of HOMFC and UBIG. They also state Vlad is controller of Milson Capital, UAB Businessline and Ensco 165, although Ensco has been dissolved.

Even without Vlad, Olga Goncaruk, Vlad's sister is an Officer of Ukio Bankas as she is on the supervisory board and her daughter Juljia was a Heart's director and her nephew Roman was Heart's chairman.

You don't get much more connected than that ! :greengrin

[Leithenhibby]

The Hearts accounts state Vlad is the ultimate controller of HOMFC and UBIG. They also state Vlad is controller of Milson Capital, UAB Businessline and Ensco 165, although Ensco has been dissolved.

Even without Vlad, Olga Goncaruk, Vlad's sister is an Officer of Ukio Bankas as she is on the supervisory board and her daughter Juljia was a Heart's director and her nephew Roman was Heart's chairman.

You don't get much more connected than that ! :greengrin

Biggest smile I've had all day :aok:

[Weststandwanab]

The Hearts accounts state Vlad is the ultimate controller of HOMFC and UBIG. They also state Vlad is controller of Milson Capital, UAB Businessline and Ensco 165, although Ensco has been dissolved.

Even without Vlad, Olga Goncaruk, Vlad's sister is an Officer of Ukio Bankas as she is on the supervisory board and her daughter Juljia was a Heart's director and her nephew Roman was Heart's chairman.

You don't get much more connected than that ! :greengrin
I agree but apart from the "was" and the fact that some of these parties are registered out with the U.K., these are guides and are not legal statutes. Remember when Servo "won"an appeal.

[CropleyWasGod]

Do UKIO get a vote, what with them being a secured creditor?

Yes. Their vote is 'worth' the unsecured portion. So....deduct 6.8 m from the total debt to get the voting value .


Yes that is what I meant sorry I typed to quickly. H.M.R.C. guides are just that a guideline, some creditor may challenge this who knows ?

Don't think they're HMRC guides. AFAIK they are statutory.

I'm still on holiday, so may have missed something. .....but isn't that what Robin said?

[Kato]

Yes. Their vote is 'worth' the unsecured portion. So....deduct 6.8 m from the total debt to get the voting value .


cheers

[Weststandwanab]

Don't think they're HMRC guides. AFAIK they are statutory.

I'm still on holiday, so may have missed something. .....but isn't that what Robin said? StevieC said they were "guides" and in my experience with H.M.R.C. cases "guides" and ex-statutory instruments can always be challenged. I think the more pertinent issue was the interpretation of "connected".

[greenginger]

Yes. Their vote is 'worth' the unsecured portion. So....deduct 6.8 m from the total debt to get the voting value .

£ 6.8 millon off of Ukio Bankas total debt is £ 8,688,000 but that won't count on 50% non-connected vote if they are deemed to be an associated company.

Did Hibs.net give permission for you to be off on holiday ? :greengrin

[CyberSauzee]

The Hearts accounts state Vlad is the ultimate controller of HOMFC and UBIG. They also state Vlad is controller of Milson Capital, UAB Businessline and Ensco 165, although Ensco has been dissolved.

Even without Vlad, Olga Goncaruk, Vlad's sister is an Officer of Ukio Bankas as she is on the supervisory board and her daughter Juljia was a Heart's director and her nephew Roman was Heart's chairman.

You don't get much more connected than that ! :greengrin

And not forgetting the "we owe the money to ourselves" mantra.

[Frazerbob]

Estimated crowd of "4-5k" for their big fundraising game against Wolfsberg Reserves according to sickback.

[Pedantic_Hibee]

Desantos has fair changed his tune.

[greenginger]

Estimated crowd of "4-5k" for their big fundraising game against Wolfsberg Reserves according to sickback.

I forgot that game was on tonight, had to look again at the EEN and there is 3 lines on it hidden in the very small Yam article.

The Big team will not be happy !

[weonlywon6-2]

Personally, I'd settle for 2 large doings going towards their relegation. Make it so, Tel!


If there was a chance that we could relegate them by wining at the wonga dome then that would be just the best ever !!

[SteveHFC]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BY-iYHuCMAEoMc-.jpg :faf:

[CropleyWasGod]

£ 6.8 millon off of Ukio Bankas total debt is £ 8,688,000 but that won't count on 50% non-connected vote if they are deemed to be an associated company.

Did Hibs.net give permission for you to be off on holiday ? :greengrin

I was on a scouting mission for our El Tel the other night. I took in the Real Betis-Barca game. Unfortunately, my main target went off injured after 20 minutes or so. Lenny Messy or something.

My attention then turned to one of the Betis players who is probably more our calibre. His name. ..and I kid you not....is Juan Kar

[StevieC]

StevieC said they were "guides"

Not me, I rarely make statements about stuff I know very little about. :wink:

You must be confusing me with someone else's post?

[Springbank]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BY-iYHuCMAEoMc-.jpg :faf:

I'm in! Or is it urine?
I can never remember

[PatHead]

Estimated crowd of "4-5k" for their big fundraising game against Wolfsberg Reserves according to sickback.

According to the resident yam at work they needed 8,000 to break even. If that is true they will make a loss. In Jambo words................... PLEASING. Another step to Jambogeddon

[weecounty hibby]

My attention then turned to one of the Betis players who is probably more our calibre. His name. ..and I kid you not....is Juan Kar
Surely he would be more suited to the yams. He would fit in well with all the other Juan Kars!!!!!

[Hermit Crab]

According to the resident yam at work they needed 8,000 to break even. If that is true they will make a loss. In Jambo words................... PLEASING. Another step to Jambogeddon

We don't know what the attendance is though. I can tell you it's 0-0 though.

[Www1875hfc]

We don't know what the attendance is though. I can tell you it's 0-0 though.

5535 is tonight's crowd.

[Scònaldò]

We don't know what the attendance is though. I can tell you it's 0-0 though.

5535

[carnoustiehibee]

We don't know what the attendance is though. I can tell you it's 0-0 though.

@BarryAnderson_8: 5535 is tonight's crowd for #Hearts v #Wolfsburg.

[Jonnyboy]

@BarryAnderson_8: 5535 is tonight's crowd for #Hearts v #Wolfsburg.

Surprised Wolfsburg brought so many with them!

[weecounty hibby]

But but but where are the 400,000 when they are needed for fundraising. Have they all got more important prior engagements like their hero Rudi the rat. Fuds every last one of them

[carnoustiehibee]

Surprised Wolfsburg brought so many with them!

32% possession 2 shots on target and 1 corner with a quick check on sky bet. A great fundraiser to warm your cockles in these Baltic conditions

[PatHead]

@BarryAnderson_8: 5535 is tonight's crowd for #Hearts v #Wolfsburg.

Assuming 8000 was the break even crowd and an average of £15 per head this means they made a profit of -£36,795. Oops!

[Hermit Crab]

Tickets were £15, £12, £7 and £2. Lol. £15 and £7 were non season ticket holders prices.


Assuming 8000 was the break even crowd and an average of £15 per head this means they made a profit of -£36,795. Oops!

Plus they've got to pay the players, staff, police and stewards and not to mention Wolfsburg must get a snip for coming over.

[weecounty hibby]

Assuming 8000 was the break even crowd and an average of £15 per head this means they made a profit of -£36,795. Oops!
How will Allisbarry turn that into a good news story for the yams? Surely even the thickest of them will see that it has been a disaster. They really are the joke that just keeps coming up with new punchlines

[PatHead]

Tickets were £15, £12, £7 and £2. Lol. £15 and £7 were non season ticket holders prices.

Well assuming an average of £9 per scull only £22,185 loss. S******


Plus they've got to pay the players, staff, police and stewards and not to mention Wolfsburg must get a snip for coming over.

Would assume the break even cost took into account all these costs.

[Hermit Crab]

Well assuming an average of £9 per scull only £22,185 loss. S******

Hardly a crowd puller is it.

[hibees 7062]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BY-iYHuCMAEoMc-.jpg :faf:

Why is Neilson there ?

[soupy]

Why is Neilson there ?

I think he took over from Darren Murray or something like that..

[Jonnyboy]

I think he took over from Darren Murray or something like that..

Yep he's their new youth team coach which, by definition, makes him a first team coach too :agree:

[kaimendhibs]

Ha ha, that's a big team fund raiser crowd if ever I saw one. FAF


Sent from my iphone

[Hermit Crab]

The huge big **** off massive big team drew 0-0.

[Leithenhibby]

Estimated crowd of "4-5k" for their big fundraising game against Wolfsberg Reserves according to sickback.


According to the resident yam at work they needed 8,000 to break even. If that is true they will make a loss. In Jambo words................... PLEASING. Another step to Jambogeddon


We don't know what the attendance is though. I can tell you it's 0-0 though.

You do now...5535 :wink:

[hibees 7062]

I think he took over from Darren Murray or something like that..

:aok:

[Weststandwanab]

Not me, I rarely make statements about stuff I know very little about. :wink:

You must be confusing me with someone else's post?Apologies Sir I am indeed confused not for the first time today !


Assuming 8000 was the break even crowd and an average of £15 per head this means they made a profit of -£36,795. Oops! Also need to deduct the V.A.T.element so a:na na: bigger net loss.


Hardly a crowd puller is it. Substitue crowd for .........

[HIBERNIAN-0762]

You do now...5535 :wink:

:hilarious:hilarious:hilarious

[hibees 7062]

Yep he's their new youth team coach which, by definition, makes him a first team coach too :agree:

Player/coach/coach , treble wages then ? :greengrin

[#FromTheCapital]

Why is Neilson there ?

Perhaps BDO are trying to change hearts paedophile image and distract any would-be Craig Thomson/Graham Rix types by sticking a hairy fanny in the dug out.

[Jonnyboy]

Player/coach/coach , treble wages then ? :greengrin

Almost. He does three jobs but only gets paid for one of them. Yamenomics :greengrin

[jodjam]

My son is following Barry Anderson's tweets. According to BA hertz brought on a lad called angus beith. Really hope this lad signs for Aberdeen

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Plus they've got to pay the players, staff, police and stewards and not to mention Wolfsburg must get a snip for coming over.

I hope these folk arnae relying on seeing any cash from the wongadome.

[chrisski33]

5535 is tonight's crowd.

Hahaha so much for the "big" team! Thats pathetic! But they are a pathetic club

[Gus Fring]

BDO were worried a few days ago that this endeavour would actually cost them money. I can't imagine there's much in it either way.

[Fat Penlon]

Why are administrators speculating to accumulate?

[Ozyhibby]

Why are administrators speculating to accumulate?

My thoughts exactly. Have they gone native?

[rcarter1]

Hahaha so much for the "big" team! Thats pathetic! But they are a pathetic club

The prospect of Butchers army descending on them repeatedly has convinced them that seconding to the third division might not be such a bad idea..

[hibee_nation]

My son is following Barry Anderson's tweets. According to BA hertz brought on a lad called angus beith. Really hope this lad signs for Aberdeen

Butcher would know what to do with him. :wink:

[Spike Mandela]

The low crowd suggests to me that the mindset of the Hearts fans has changed and they think (rightly or wrongly) that they are over the worst and a CVA is all but finalised and administration is nearly over.:cb

[Hermit Crab]

The low crowd suggests to me that the mindset of the Hearts fans has changed and they think (rightly or wrongly) that they are over the worst and a CVA is all but finalised and administration is nearly over.:cb

For someone that knows hee haw about this financial stuff, where are they at the moment? Close to being saved, close to being liquidated or somewhere in the middle?

[Ozyhibby]

For someone that knows hee haw about this financial stuff, where are they at the moment? Close to being saved, close to being liquidated or somewhere in the middle?

Some of us think they are about to be liquidated. Some of us think they are saved. Some of us think somewhere in the middle. Some of is don't know.
Hope that clears it all up for you. :-)

[Hermit Crab]

Some of us think they are about to be liquidated. Some of us think they are saved. Some of us think somewhere in the middle. Some of is don't know.
Hope that clears it all up for you. :-)

Erm yeah crystal.

[greenginger]

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dukio%2Bbankas%2B15min%26client%3Dfire fox-a%26hs%3DGiE%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official&rurl=translate.google.co.uk&sl=lt&u=http://www.15min.lt/naujiena/verslas/bendroves/bankrutuojancio-ukio-banko-aukcione-didziausia-konkurencija-bus-del-mazesniu-nt-objektu-663-384831&usg=ALkJrhjnyWc1pUX1dGXZ27SeQudV7NuEYw

Ukio Bankas Bad Bank getting its property assets auctioned off today.

They should have enforced the security on the PBS and added the " development opportunity " to the auction lots.

FoH could have gone along and bid their standing orders against the other vultures looking to make a fast buck.

[Ozyhibby]

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dukio%2Bbankas%2B15min%26client%3Dfire fox-a%26hs%3DGiE%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official&rurl=translate.google.co.uk&sl=lt&u=http://www.15min.lt/naujiena/verslas/bendroves/bankrutuojancio-ukio-banko-aukcione-didziausia-konkurencija-bus-del-mazesniu-nt-objektu-663-384831&usg=ALkJrhjnyWc1pUX1dGXZ27SeQudV7NuEYw

Ukio Bankas Bad Bank getting its property assets auctioned off today.

They should have enforced the security on the PBS and added the " development opportunity " to the auction lots.

FoH could have gone along and bid their standing orders against the other vultures looking to make a fast buck.

Does this mean the assets aren't frozen?

[Gus Fring]

My source confirmed to me this morning that last nights game was not profitable. "Not even close". He also tells me walk up revenue from league games has fallen sharply as well.

Perhaps their fans are finally getting sick of plying money into the club for over a year whilst watching the situation getting worse rather than better?

[Hermit Crab]

My source confirmed to me this morning that last nights game was not profitable. "Not even close". He also tells me walk up revenue from league games has fallen sharply as well.

Perhaps their fans are finally getting sick of plying money into the club for over a year whilst watching the situation getting worse rather than better?

That was always going to happen. Nobody consistently walks up and pays to see a losing team. The idea that they would sell out every home game regardless of results was preposterous from the outset. They all say they'll go but when it comes to parting with the cash, that's a different story. Loyal my hoop.

[#FromTheCapital]

Does this mean the assets aren't frozen?

Its only UBIG's assets that are frozen not ukio's

[MB62]

My source confirmed to me this morning that last nights game was not profitable. "Not even close". He also tells me walk up revenue from league games has fallen sharply as well.

Perhaps their fans are finally getting sick of plying money into the club for over a year whilst watching the situation getting worse rather than better?

I wouldn't have thought the German team would have come over here without a fee being paid to them so with a crowd of just over 5,000, BDO will be having kittens at the loss made on this venture.

[JimBHibees]

I wouldn't have thought the German team would have come over here without a fee being paid to them so with a crowd of just over 5,000, BDO will be having kittens at the loss made on this venture.

Seems a bit odd that they didnt try and get this or a similar game on the Saturday when there is next to no football on what with the ridiculous Friday /Tuesday international matches. In saying that Scotland are playing rugby so maybe that is the reason. In any case Wolfsberg while no doubt a decent team arent really a massive draw crowd wise IMO. Almost feels like some people going through the motions of trying to save them rather than genuinely doing so.

[Hermit Crab]

Seems a bit odd that they didnt try and get this or a similar game on the Saturday when there is next to no football on what with the ridiculous Friday /Tuesday international matches. In saying that Scotland are playing rugby so maybe that is the reason. In any case Wolfsberg while no doubt a decent team arent really a massive draw crowd wise IMO. Almost feels like some people going through the motions of trying to save them rather than genuinely doing so.

The rugger is on Sunday this week isn't it?

[Golden Bear]

The rugger is on Sunday this week isn't it?

:agree:

I think the rugby is on Sunday as well.

:wink:

[EK_Hibs]

My source confirmed to me this morning that last nights game was not profitable. "Not even close". He also tells me walk up revenue from league games has fallen sharply as well.

Perhaps their fans are finally getting sick of plying money into the club for over a year whilst watching the situation getting worse rather than better?

Is 'your source' still of the opinion that Hertz' survival chances are around 6%?

[Iggy Pope]

Is 'your source' still of the opinion that Hertz' survival chances are around 6%?

Is your avatar not just a tad on the homo-erotic side?

[Engels74]

Not sure what it may mean if anything but Yam golf journo Ewan Murray's just tweeted that Donald Ford and Alex Mackie have resigned from FOH. Bad news coming?

Ewan Murray ‏@mrewanmurray (https://twitter.com/mrewanmurray)11m (https://twitter.com/mrewanmurray/status/400993842125479937)
Alex Mackie and Donald Ford have resigned from the Foundation of Hearts board, as I understand it.

[brog]

My source confirmed to me this morning that last nights game was not profitable. "Not even close". He also tells me walk up revenue from league games has fallen sharply as well.

Perhaps their fans are finally getting sick of plying money into the club for over a year whilst watching the situation getting worse rather than better?

Any idea which genius suggested this venture? So many things wrong with it, date & opposition, (no disrespect to Wolfsburg intended) for starters. As another poster said I think someone thought they could keep going to the well for ever but to mix analogies, you can't even fool Yams all of the time! With Xmas looming things can only get worse, I mean better of course!!

[bingo70]

Not sure what it may mean if anything but Yam golf journo Ewan Murray's just tweeted that Donald Ford and Alex Mackie have resigned from FOH. Bad news coming?

Ewan Murray ‏@mrewanmurray (https://twitter.com/mrewanmurray)11m (https://twitter.com/mrewanmurray/status/400993842125479937)
Alex Mackie and Donald Ford have resigned from the Foundation of Hearts board, as I understand it.

Alex Mackie was one of the original founders of foh and was by all accounts a good guy with hearts best interests at heart, he had been falling out with the politicians that have got involved as he felt they had ulterior motives and couldn't be trusted.

I'd say this is bad news for hearts.

[brog]

Not sure what it may mean if anything but Yam golf journo Ewan Murray's just tweeted that Donald Ford and Alex Mackie have resigned from FOH. Bad news coming?

Ewan Murray ‏@mrewanmurray (https://twitter.com/mrewanmurray)11m (https://twitter.com/mrewanmurray/status/400993842125479937)
Alex Mackie and Donald Ford have resigned from the Foundation of Hearts board, as I understand it.

Did Shoeless Bob not make some reference to Alex Mackie being duped by F of H last week? The implosion begins!

[JeMeSouviens]

Not sure what it may mean if anything but Yam golf journo Ewan Murray's just tweeted that Donald Ford and Alex Mackie have resigned from FOH. Bad news coming?

Ewan Murray ‏@mrewanmurray (https://twitter.com/mrewanmurray)11m (https://twitter.com/mrewanmurray/status/400993842125479937)
Alex Mackie and Donald Ford have resigned from the Foundation of Hearts board, as I understand it.

No idea why that would be but the one time I heard Mackie speak he sounded like the kind of guy who'd give our beloved Tache a run for his money in prudency. He was never going to cut it with the muppets who will be baying for big wages to be squandered on Rudi and the likes soon as they get out of admin.

[Iggy Pope]

Alex Mackie was one of the original founders of foh and was by all accounts a good guy with hearts best interests at heart, he had been falling out with the politicians that have got involved as he felt they had ulterior motives and couldn't be trusted.

I'd say this is bad news for hearts.

Do you know if this Mackie is a descendant of the author / journalist Albert Mackie, who wrote a very readable account of 'The Hearts' some time in the 60s before they sold their bairns toys?
If so, his ancestor must be so very, very, er....proud.

[Peevemor]

Donald Ford is a man of great integrity and (despite this) is very popular with the Hearts fans. This development spells bad news for the merricks IMHO.

[bingo70]

Do you know if this Mackie is a descendant of the author / journalist Albert Mackie, who wrote a very readable account of 'The Hearts' some time in the 60s before they sold their bairns toys?
If so, his ancestor must be so very, very, er....proud.

I don't know him personally but a member of my family is good mates with him. From what I understand Mackie is very much old school hearts and hasn't liked what vlad has done to the club and he's been trying to get this take over going while they were enjoying their success. Seems unlikely he'd pull out now if they were about to.succeed

[Ozyhibby]

No idea why that would be but the one time I heard Mackie speak he sounded like the kind of guy who'd give our beloved Tache a run for his money in prudency. He was never going to cut it with the muppets who will be baying for big wages to be squandered on Rudi and the likes soon as they get out of admin.

That was exactly what I thought and was genuinely concerned they would have him in charge. If they survive then it's good news he won't be involved.

[joe breezy]

Is your avatar not just a tad on the homo-erotic side?

Maybe inspired by Happy Howden in the Acid House?

[Iggy Pope]

Maybe inspired by Happy Howden in the Acid House?

Ha! That was the fireplace he was biting!

[Gus Fring]

Is 'your source' still of the opinion that Hertz' survival chances are around 6%?

They're still not confident. As usual, the media are getting over enthusiastic about things and are jumping 10 steps ahead.

Time is what will likely kill Hearts now in my opinion. Every day that passes is another that makes it difficult for BDO to justify not liquidating. They are in danger of clinging on for so long that the club is worth nothing and a CVA is no longer possible/likely.

[JimBHibees]

The rugger is on Sunday this week isn't it?

Didnt know that even stranger that the game wasnt on the Saturday then.

[Saorsa]

Alex Mackie was one of the original founders of foh and was by all accounts a good guy with hearts best interests at heart, he had been falling out with the politicians that have got involved as he felt they had ulterior motives and couldn't be trusted.

I'd say this is bad news for hearts.and good news for everybody else. :greengrin

[Weststandwanab]

They're still not confident. As usual, the media are getting over enthusiastic about things and are jumping 10 steps ahead.

Time is what will likely kill Hearts now in my opinion. Every day that passes is another that makes it difficult for BDO to justify not liquidating. They are in danger of clinging on for so long that the club is worth nothing and a CVA is no longer possible/likely. That is exactly how I have imagined (from the day of their Administration) this saga would pan out. DF will be a big loss to the cause and may speed things up considerably but 22nd November will speed it further.

[EK_Hibs]

They're still not confident. As usual, the media are getting over enthusiastic about things and are jumping 10 steps ahead.

Time is what will likely kill Hearts now in my opinion. Every day that passes is another that makes it difficult for BDO to justify not liquidating. They are in danger of clinging on for so long that the club is worth nothing and a CVA is no longer possible/likely.

Whilst it's good your source is still not confident I just can't see the yams 'running out of money', I'm not buying that... If it became SO desperate that they needed to sell out the ground again then smarmy Southern would just get the begging bowl out, mention 1914 and they'd rally as they did before.
As was posted on this very thread a while back, BDO already told the Ukio admin and also the yam shareholders that they'd agreed to cap their own fees so presumably that meter's not still running?

I'd like to hear more about HMRC's possible influence in the CVA approval?
If there's any truth in that then that could be a goer.

[Jim44]

As you might expect, they are putting a positive spin on the resignations. Apparently, Ford is busy with his own business and this would hinder his contribution to FOH.
Mackie is a self centred individual who has out-grown his usefulness. Allisstillbarry!

[brog]

Whilst it's good your source is still not confident I just can't see the yams 'running out of money', I'm not buying that... If it became SO desperate that they needed to sell out the ground again then smarmy Southern would just get the begging bowl out, mention 1914 and they'd rally as they did before.
As was posted on this very thread a while back, BDO already told the Ukio admin and also the yam shareholders that they'd agreed to cap their own fees so presumably that meter's not still running?

I'd like to hear more about HMRC's possible influence in the CVA approval?
If there's any truth in that then that could be a goer.

Can you find that quote please? I think I remember them saying something about capping expenses but not fees. If fees were to be capped they would be working for nothing &, unlike the poor people at PBS, that is not going to happen.

[stevejordan]

I Can see the whole thing falling appart now tere is obvious in fighting going on already.

[Onceinawhile]

It's a bit sad that the man who had the idea for foh and was it's leader to start with has been pushed out just as it looks like it's about to achieve the aim he wanted it too.

ah well, sucks to be him.

[Gus Fring]

Whilst it's good your source is still not confident I just can't see the yams 'running out of money', I'm not buying that... If it became SO desperate that they needed to sell out the ground again then smarmy Southern would just get the begging bowl out, mention 1914 and they'd rally as they did before.
As was posted on this very thread a while back, BDO already told the Ukio admin and also the yam shareholders that they'd agreed to cap their own fees so presumably that meter's not still running?

I'd like to hear more about HMRC's possible influence in the CVA approval?
If there's any truth in that then that could be a goer.

FWIW my source doesn't think they'll run out of work either. They're making more than they spend just now generally speaking but Hearts can't stay in admin forever and BDO need to take the next step at some point, they are hoping that's via a CVA just now. If there are further delays or problems with that then things get even more difficult.

How long is acceptable for an administrator to essentially work for free waiting for a CVA? I'm sure BDO won't want it to drag on for another 6 months.

[Treadstone]

As was posted on this very thread a while back, BDO already told the Ukio admin and also the yam shareholders that they'd agreed to cap their own fees so presumably that meter's not still running?


Was that not just hearsay ?

[EK_Hibs]

Was that not just hearsay ?

I was forwarded the 'minutes' from a HoMFC shareholders meeting a couple of months ago by my yam work colleague and it was Trevor Birch of BDO who confirmed they'd agreed with the Ukio Admin to cap their fee.

Time will tell I suppose.

[Ozyhibby]

So long as the Hearts fans are not responsible for paying BDO's fees themselves they run the risk that someone will pull the plug.

[PatHead]

Sent the resident Jambo at work an email asking for his thoughts on Ford and Mackie's departure. His response-


I will await my email from FOH to explain the latest developments although it was always the plan that there would be an orderly departure of directors

At the appropriate time? - Head in the sand or what, move along nothing to see here.

[CyberSauzee]

It's a bit sad that the man who had the idea for foh and was it's leader to start with has been pushed out just as it looks like it's about to achieve the aim he wanted it too.

ah well, sucks to be him.

The Brian Jones of FoH?

[Geo_1875]

To be honest it sounds like they are stepping back before the **** hits the fan.


The Brian Jones of FoH?

Hopefully that makes Ian Murray MP the Jim Jones of FoH.

[Hermit Crab]

They still have 9 members left.

[greenginger]

I was forwarded the 'minutes' from a HoMFC shareholders meeting a couple of months ago by my yam work colleague and it was Trevor Birch of BDO who confirmed they'd agreed with the Ukio Admin to cap their fee.

Time will tell I suppose.

Cap their fees could mean we won't increase our hourly rates by whatever % they are charging new clients.

from BDO appointment statement

.....the Joint Administrators' remuneration be fixed on a time cost basis .... etc. I can't really see them working for nought, they ain't a charity.

[Jack]

Donald Ford is a man of great integrity and (despite this) is very popular with the Hearts fans. This development spells bad news for the merricks IMHO.


I don't know him personally but a member of my family is good mates with him. From what I understand Mackie is very much old school hearts and hasn't liked what vlad has done to the club and he's been trying to get this take over going while they were enjoying their success. Seems unlikely he'd pull out now if they were about to.succeed

Ford loves hearts and it probably broke his to step down. His disgust at what was going on with vlad was a great illustration that not all the yams are the same. A gent.


As you might expect, they are putting a positive spin on the resignations. Apparently, Ford is busy with his own business and this would hinder his contribution to FOH.
Mackie is a self centred individual who has out-grown his usefulness. Allisstillbarry!

Ford must be well in his 70s. Difficult to imagine why he'd all of a sudden become busy???

[Weststandwanab]

Cap their fees could mean we won't increase our hourly rates by whatever % they are charging new clients.

from BDO appointment statement

.....the Joint Administrators' remuneration be fixed on a time cost basis .... etc. I can't really see them working for nought, they ain't a charity. They won't, it will be hundreds of pounds and hour possibly with some discounted. IF this runs on to the point when there is the chance that BDO will not get what the expect to recover they will move to the big L to protect their position.

[greenginger]

I wonder if the departures will lead to Anne Budge questioning whether it is a good idea to hand over a couple of million of her hard-earned.

Without her funding FoH , bidco, fanco, are all dead in the water.

[steviehibsleith]

In light of FOH people jumping ship my question to the financial guys on here, When BDO offer £2.5 million for the cva do BDO have to have that money in their possesion so they hand it over to the Lithuanian peeps. Or are they offering in installments ...

[EK_Hibs]

In light of FOH people jumping ship my question to the financial guys on here, When BDO offer £2.5 million for the cva do BDO have to have that money in their possesion so they hand it over to the Lithuanian peeps. Or are they offering in installments ...

Upon completion of the CVA deal, £2m would be paid up front to secure the PBS, with the final £500,000 delivered after ten months.

http://m.stv.tv/sport/football/clubs/hearts/247435-hearts-cva-proposal-of-25m-to-be-decided-by-creditors/

[steviehibsleith]

Upon completion of the CVA deal, £2m would be paid up front to secure the PBS, with the final £500,000 delivered after ten months.

http://m.stv.tv/sport/football/clubs/hearts/247435-hearts-cva-proposal-of-25m-to-be-decided-by-creditors/

Cheers :aok:
Wonder if there is a issue with the £2 million

[Jack]

Cheers :aok:
Wonder if there is a issue with the £2 million

Aye! It needs to be £10m

[EK_Hibs]

Aye! It needs to be £10m

£10m for that piece of sh**???
...Steady

[Iggy Pope]

£10m for that piece of sh**???
...Steady

Yes, quite.

[Pedantic_Hibee]

Enough of this pish, they'll sail through a cva. Sick of reading about impending liquidation from "experts" who are constantly wrong :aok:

[Dashing Bob S]

Ford loves hearts and it probably broke his to step down. His disgust at what was going on with vlad was a great illustration that not all the yams are the same. A gent.



Ford must be well in his 70s. Difficult to imagine why he'd all of a sudden become busy???

DF is a former accountant and he won't like the look of this nonsense. He's also a man of integrity and will have little regard for the self-serving brigade who are all over this dodgy project like a cheap suit. He's wise to swerve this oncoming debacle.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Whilst it's good your source is still not confident I just can't see the yams 'running out of money', I'm not buying that... If it became SO desperate that they needed to sell out the ground again then smarmy Southern would just get the begging bowl out, mention 1914 and they'd rally as they did before.
As was posted on this very thread a while back, BDO already told the Ukio admin and also the yam shareholders that they'd agreed to cap their own fees so presumably that meter's not still running?

I'd like to hear more about HMRC's possible influence in the CVA approval?
If there's any truth in that then that could be a goer.

Aye maybe it'd make Ann Budge?

[Springbank]

Enough of this pish, they'll sail through a cva. Sick of reading about impending liquidation from "experts" who are constantly wrong :aok:

Apologies if that was irony and I missed it (cue woooosh smiley) but not sure this thread has been constantly wrong

Hearts bottom of league beginning -15 with transfer embargo and further sfa penalties possible, and no guarantee of any happy ending in gorgie

None too shabby so far, except for 2 Fenlon disasters on field this season, and that's a different story

[Phil D. Rolls]

Apologies if that was irony and I missed it (cue woooosh smiley) but not sure this thread has been constantly wrong

Hearts bottom of league beginning -15 with transfer embargo and further sfa penalties possible, and no guarantee of any happy ending in gorgie

None too shabby so far, except for 2 Fenlon disasters on field this season, and that's a different story

It's been a long game, but most of the things predicted on .net have come to pass. It's been we'll and truly established that Vlad got them in the mess we said he would years ago. They are in administration, they will be relegated. I think there's an odds on chance that we will get close to the full set, the next bug hurdle is them losing the PBS, if that happens its game over.

God knows what they were thinking with that ill thought out friendly, other than they could see massive cash flow problems in the next month, and had to try something to get money in.

[GreenLake]

The two FOH guys with the most credibility bolt just a week before CVA decision. Perhaps they just want to lance the boil which the remaining ennead are festering behind the scenes. Have FOH just thrown BDO at the final fence?

[Spike Mandela]

Apologies if that was irony and I missed it (cue woooosh smiley) but not sure this thread has been constantly wrong

Hearts bottom of league beginning -15 with transfer embargo and further sfa penalties possible, and no guarantee of any happy ending in gorgie

None too shabby so far, except for 2 Fenlon disasters on field this season, and that's a different story

We didn't need ITK financial experts to tell us they would end up with a pishy wee points penalty and a transfer embargo and that new buyers would pick up the club and stadium for a pittance. We just need to look at every other Scottish football administration to know that.

It's the constant foretelling of their impending doom and years in the wilderness that pisses me off. They are just about to pull off their best financial result in years, a result Hibs couldn't even dream of. £26m off their debt just like that.

Then what are they going to do? They will sell season tickets, merchandise and their additional pledges and spend it on the team and running costs? What will we do? We will sell season tickets and merchandise to spend on the team and running costs. Hearts may actually have more to spend than us.

Oh, we have a shiny new stand. So ****ing what.:cb

[Twa Cairpets]

We didn't need ITK financial experts to tell us they would end up with a pishy wee points penalty and a transfer embargo and that new buyers would pick up the club and stadium for a pittance. We just need to look at every other Scottish football administration to know that.

It's the constant foretelling of their impending doom and years in the wilderness that pisses me off. They are just about to pull off their best financial result in years, a result Hibs couldn't even dream of. £26m off their debt just like that.

Then what are they going to do? They will sell season tickets, merchandise and their additional pledges and spend it on the team and running costs? What will we do? We will sell season tickets and merchandise to spend on the team and running costs. Hearts may actually have more to spend than us.

Oh, we have a shiny new stand. So ****ing what.:cb

Whenever I'm sad or down, I just need to find a post from ol' Spike to make me realise there are people out there whose life is so deeply pessimistic that by comparision I live in a world of rainbows, sunflowers and unicorns.

Cheer up my man, they are doomed.

[Spike Mandela]

Whenever I'm sad or down, I just need to find a post from ol' Spike to make me realise there are people out there whose life is so deeply pessimistic that by comparision I live in a world of rainbows, sunflowers and unicorns.

Cheer up my man, they are doomed.

Obvious from the usual sarcasm as opposed to a reasoned rebuttal that you also know it's true but prefer to live in laa laa land :greengrin:aok:

[Dashing Bob S]

Obvious from the usual sarcasm as opposed to a reasoned rebuttal that you also know it's true but prefer to live in laa laa land :greengrin:aok:

They are toast. If you want seasoned rebuttals look at CWG, Bajiliions and Sergey's posts. "I hate them and they're spawny cheats so a CVA will go through and they'll have loads of money to spend through the FOH plan..." is not a well thought-out position.

[Spike Mandela]

They are toast. If you want seasoned rebuttals look at CWG, Bajiliions and Sergey's posts. "I hate them and they're spawny cheats so a CVA will go through and they'll have loads of money to spend through the FOH plan..." is not a well thought-out position.

We shall see DBS, we shall see.

I would argue that for all the aforementioned worthy posters fabulous posts analysing and explaining how technical financial and legal things work, I still think wiping £26m off your debt and carrying on essentially the same as you were is a pretty decent result.

[Dashing Bob S]

We shall see DBS, we shall see.

I would argue that for all the aforementioned worthy posters fabulous posts analysing and explaining how technical financial and legal things work, I still think wiping £26m off your debt and carrying on essentially the same as you were is a pretty decent result.

As you say, we shall see. I'd love the FOH CVA to go ahead - it's a joke and would fail miserably and tear them apart, but my prediction is that they'll proceed to liquidation, probably after a few more unsavoury revelations.

[Spike Mandela]

As you say, we shall see. I'd love the FOH CVA to go ahead - it's a joke and would fail miserably and tear them apart, but my prediction is that they'll proceed to liquidation, probably after a few more unsavoury revelations.

If their CVA goes through how would it fail? Wouldn't they just be the same as us relying on season tickets, merchandise, pledges and footballing prize money to invest in their team?

[Weststandwanab]

As you say, we shall see. I'd love the FOH CVA to go ahead - it's a joke and would fail miserably and tear them apart, but my prediction is that they'll proceed to liquidation, probably after a few more unsavoury revelations. I agree 100% - maybe more !


If their CVA goes through how would it fail? Wouldn't they just be the same as us relying on season tickets, merchandise, pledges and footballing prize money to invest in their team? Yes but with no assets and the massive liability that is the Wongadome which may fail a safety certificate early in 2014 sp not quite the same as Hibernian.

[Spike Mandela]

I agree 100% - maybe more !

Yes but with no assets and the massive liability that is the Wongadome which may fail a safety certificate early in 2014 sp not quite the same as Hibernian.

MAY fail. They will have a stadium ****ty or not which has value ( and watch the quotes for land price miraculously soar:greengrin) Hardly suggests they are Doomed as many suggest though does it Westandwanab?

[Weststandwanab]

MAY fail. They will have a stadium ****ty or not which has value ( and watch the quotes for land price miraculously soar:greengrin) Hardly suggests they are Doomed as many suggest though does it Westandwanab? So SM the C.V.A. goes through and F.O.H. have a stadium which has a value which may or may not go up, what next ? How does that help them ?

[Spike Mandela]

So SM the C.V.A. goes through and F.O.H. have a stadium which has a value which may or may not go up, what next ? How does that help them ?

I'm really not trying to be awkward Weststandwanab. I am genuinely struggling to see how they are not in exactly the same position as us after a CVA is accepted.

They own a stadium in Edinburgh. Not as modern as ours but decent sized even ultimately if the main stand is shut on safety reasons. If they ever decide to move I am sure the land price will have increased and planning permissions will be less of an issue for any prospective buyer.

They don't own a training centre but have access to a, soon to be, state of the art facility on renegotiated rates.

They have as good a sized fan base as us which will buy season tickets etc so surely they will have similar funds to us to improve the team?

They are as likely to make money on the lottery of selling on their players as we are.

They might get relegated this year but parachute payments, play offs and a more even spread of funds through the leagues make this less of a disaster than it used to be. We of course have shown we are not immune to relegation battles even without being in admin.

I just don't feel their pain. I wish I did.:greengrin

[H1bs6H3arts2 FC]

MAY fail. They will have a stadium ****ty or not which has value ( and watch the quotes for land price miraculously soar:greengrin) Hardly suggests they are Doomed as many suggest though does it Westandwanab?

What kind hearted creditor is going to let a £4 milllion asset (maybe more) go for £2-3 million in a CVA - the PBS will be subject to at the very least a hefty rent & the associated astronomical running costs. All their cash is gonna be spent on keeping all the flashy training ground n daft friendlies to raise more needed cash - the team will be financially neglected! :agree:

[brog]

We shall see DBS, we shall see.

I would argue that for all the aforementioned worthy posters fabulous posts analysing and explaining how technical financial and legal things work, I still think wiping £26m off your debt and carrying on essentially the same as you were is a pretty decent result.

If "essentially the same as you were" means relegation, losing nearly all your best players, unable to buy players & playing in a decrepit stadium with no money for maintenance, then I would have to agree with you. Oh, & that's the best result they can get, liquidation remains a clear possibility. The good thing is Spike I don't think you've been right about anything yet so your latest missive cheers me up! Seriously, we all hate Yams getting away with anything & we're all frustrated at their lies & propaganda but they won't be a force in Scottish football for years to come.

[jacomo]

I'm really not trying to be awkward Weststandwanab. I am genuinely struggling to see how they are not in exactly the same position as us after a CVA is accepted.

They own a stadium in Edinburgh. Not as modern as ours but decent sized even ultimately if the main stand is shut on safety reasons. If they ever decide to move I am sure the land price will have increased and planning permissions will be less of an issue for any prospective buyer.

They don't own a training centre but have access to a, soon to be, state of the art facility on renegotiated rates.

They have as good a sized fan base as us which will buy season tickets etc so surely they will have similar funds to us to improve the team?

They are as likely to make money on the lottery of selling on their players as we are.

They might get relegated this year but parachute payments, play offs and a more even spread of funds through the leagues make this less of a disaster than it used to be. We of course have shown we are not immune to relegation battles even without being in admin.

I just don't feel their pain. I wish I did.:greengrin

Put like this, the price they have paid for decades of financial irresponsibility does seem small. Once they got hold of Tynecastle again they will be able to sell it to fund the building of a new home.

But their dream of being a dominant force in Scottish football has gone. I just can't see how they can ever get back to the position they enjoyed when Vlad first took over.

[Spike Mandela]

If "essentially the same as you were" means relegation, losing nearly all your best players, unable to buy players & playing in a decrepit stadium with no money for maintenance, then I would have to agree with you. Oh, & that's the best result they can get, liquidation remains a clear possibility. The good thing is Spike I don't think you've been right about anything yet so your latest missive cheers me up! Seriously, we all hate Yams getting away with anything & we're all frustrated at their lies & propaganda but they won't be a force in Scottish football for years to come.

'Essentially the same as they were' in the sense they still have a football team, playing in maroon(yuk:greengrin) and playing at Tynecastle.

How you can take the quantum leap that they won't be a force in Scottish football for years to come is a bit of a jump. I sincerely hope you are right but without a magic ball how can you be sure. Even this year with most of their best players gone they are at least as good as us and we signed 10 new players.

For shafting people out of millions of quid it really doesn't seem justice to me.

[Sergey]

As you say, we shall see. I'd love the FOH CVA to go ahead - it's a joke and would fail miserably and tear them apart, but my prediction is that they'll proceed to liquidation, probably after a few more unsavoury revelations.

Going back to my 'lap predictions' scenario, they're probably in Lap 6 of a 60 match race, but now that a few of the the FoH stalwarts have jumped ship, this is going to be a bumpy ride for a few laps and the tarmac is akin to the complexion of a teenagers face.

Can't wait until whatever announcement is next from BDO.

More twists and turns than the Monaco GP

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Worthwhile exercise according to BAZZA! (http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/hearts-teens-impress-against-wolfsburg-1-3188616)

What a joker this character is! :jamboclow

[Spike Mandela]

Going back to my 'lap predictions' scenario, they're probably in Lap 6 of a 60 match race, but now that a few of the the FoH stalwarts have jumped ship, this is going to be a bumpy ride for a few laps and the tarmac is akin to the complexion of a teenagers face.

Can't wait until whatever announcement is next from BDO.

More twists and turns than the Monaco GP

Your posts are like a soothing balm on my furrowed brow.:aok:

[clerriehibs]

Going back to my 'lap predictions' scenario, they're probably in Lap 6 of a 60 match race, but now that a few of the the FoH stalwarts have jumped ship, this is going to be a bumpy ride for a few laps and the tarmac is akin to the complexion of a teenagers face.

Can't wait until whatever announcement is next from BDO.

More twists and turns than the Monaco GP


Not just the FoH stalwarts ... there's a few DDs getting cancelled now, according to sickbag.

[Hermit Crab]

Not just the FoH stalwarts ... there's a few DDs getting cancelled now, according to sickbag.

Link?

[eastterrace]

Not just the FoH stalwarts ... there's a few DDs getting cancelled now, according to sickbag.

once they start cancelling the DD then it will implode and the squabbling will start. might get a bit bumpy ahead.

[Chibs]

'Essentially the same as they were' in the sense they still have a football team, playing in maroon(yuk:greengrin) and playing at Tynecastle.

How you can take the quantum leap that they won't be a force in Scottish football for years to come is a bit of a jump. I sincerely hope you are right but without a magic ball how can you be sure. Even this year with most of their best players gone they are at least as good as us and we signed 10 new players.

For shafting people out of millions of quid it really doesn't seem justice to me.


Don't think the jury has adjourned yet.
I await the verdict in anticipation.

[Bostonhibby]

Not just the FoH stalwarts ... there's a few DDs getting cancelled now, according to sickbag.

Posted some weeks ago thata relation had cancelled in advance of them being "saved" because he felt it was only a formality that they would be, there's mp's involved etc........blah blah.............

Latest update is that his mate and cousin have done the same "now that the worst is over".mair like one pay day before xmas-anyway that's 3 who will definitely have cancelled.They missed last nights glamour game because they were at the Wetherspoons chicken night which had apparently been set up a while ago!

[Scònaldò]

Worthwhile exercise according to BAZZA! (http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/hearts-teens-impress-against-wolfsburg-1-3188616)

What a joker this character is! :jamboclow

Indeed, he not long ago posted on twitter that Patterson's equaliser for Scotland's U21 was the best overhead kick he had ever seen.

[Hermit Crab]

Not just the FoH stalwarts ... there's a few DDs getting cancelled now, according to sickbag.

You do realise the posts about cancelling of dd is nothing but sarcasm and a wind up.

[clerriehibs]

You do realise the posts about cancelling of dd is nothing but sarcasm and a wind up.

I thought so with the 1st one ... but some of them seemed genuine enough.

[Bostonhibby]

I thought so with the 1st one ... but some of them seemed genuine enough.

Know my info is genuine - source? - his Hibs supporting partner - in his own case she runs the bank account :greengrin

[Deansy]

If "essentially the same as you were" means relegation, losing nearly all your best players, unable to buy players & playing in a decrepit stadium with no money for maintenance, then I would have to agree with you. Oh, & that's the best result they can get, liquidation remains a clear possibility. The good thing is Spike I don't think you've been right about anything yet so your latest missive cheers me up! Seriously, we all hate Yams getting away with anything & we're all frustrated at their lies & propaganda but they won't be a force in Scottish football for years to come.

They've never been a 'Force in Scottish Football' - the ONLY thing they have done is alter how others view them in Scottish Football. Up until Mercer started their 'Finance Football' business-plan, they were on the 'downward-slope', a club with a sizeable support but nothing else. The myth about them being a 'Big-Team' has only grown during this 30+ year spell, with many of their own fans actually buying into it as they know no better. The future for Hearts, with no money, is a return to Pre-Mercer' times (example season 1979/80 when promoted from the old '1st div their annual attendance was 5157 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Heart_of_Midlothian_F.C._seasons) as their history shows, their 'loyal' fans just do not support them when times are hard.

[Jim44]

".... as their history shows, their 'loyal' fans just do not support them when times are hard."


Totally disagree. From what I deduce from information and conversations with Jambo aquaintencies, I am staggered at the level of continuing support and the substantial amount of money being ploughed into the club by Joe Bloggs. Not, I know, what many of us want to hear or believe, and it's comforting and appropriate for us to think that their 'end is nigh', but, in relative terms, their endgame scenario will possibly disappoint a lot of us.

[Pete]

".... as their history shows, their 'loyal' fans just do not support them when times are hard."


Totally disagree. From what I deduce from information and conversations with Jambo aquaintencies, I am staggered at the level of continuing support and the substantial amount of money being ploughed into the club by Joe Bloggs. Not, I know, what many of us want to hear or believe, and it's comforting and appropriate for us to think that their 'end is nigh', but, in relative terms, their endgame scenario will possibly disappoint a lot of us.

I'm not surprised either by the level of support for hearts and I think your last sentence is also spot on. People's disappointment will come from having expectations that are too high and an idea that the only fair punishment is total obliteration.

When you look at all the possible outcomes to this, I don't think hearts ceasing to exist or losing Tynecastle was ever really on the cards.



The best case scenario for hearts: CVA and they survive in top flight. No, They will go down.


Second best: CVA and get relegated with instant promotion. Perhaps but other clubs will be strong.


Third best: CVA, relegation and having to wait two years. Just as possible as the second.


Fourth beast: liquidation, biddies or other party buy PBS and rent it back to newco. I have no doubt there would be people willing to do this. A CVA is one thing but when the immediate threat of losing your ground comes then people will show for the bigger clubs. Aberdeen, hearts, ourselves and probably Dundee united will probably always have a safety net to ensure the worst possible doesn't happen. I don't believe for a minute that SPFL membership would be a problem for a hearts newco. They can talk all they want about rules but money talks and they'd be in the fourth tier quicker than you could say Gala fairydean.


Fifth best: hearts liquidated. No ground and they simply die. Not going to happen. They have a hard core of fans and they will simply start up again renting somewhere. The game in Scotland took a blow financially by losing the Huns for a while and the last thing the beaks need is losing a flagship club/ selling point. There are only really six or seven clubs in Scotland that anyone else could name so lets not underestimate the importance of them as far as the league brand is concerned.


The more I think about it, what's happening to them now isn't that far away from the best case scenario but it isn't actually that far away from a realistic worse case scenario. How many football clubs with such a fan base have actually disappeared off the face of the earth?

If they survive and come back soon it might not be "fair" but insolvency and bankruptcy rarely is.

They'll have to live with being branded as cheats forevermore and having their greatest ever achievement tarnished permanently. It will be up to us to never let them forget.

[Springbank]

".... as their history shows, their 'loyal' fans just do not support them when times are hard."


Totally disagree. From what I deduce from information and conversations with Jambo aquaintencies, I am staggered at the level of continuing support and the substantial amount of money being ploughed into the club by Joe Bloggs. Not, I know, what many of us want to hear or believe, and it's comforting and appropriate for us to think that their 'end is nigh', but, in relative terms, their endgame scenario will possibly disappoint a lot of us.

I think you're judging this one too soon.

I think by early March you'll see a significant early drop off, and the key signs you and I and everyone will see (and I'm already seeing it) is jambos beginning to shift the focus elsewhere, phrases like:

Scottish footballs finished
Quality is dropping
Overpriced
Better things to do with my time
Sfa haven't a clue
Just got boring
Etcetcetc

Neatly sidestepping the fact most other fans in Scotland have had this for a while, and hearts have avoided the worst of due to financial cheating til now.

I can't speak for you but I do hear these things already.
Those jambos won't last the winter as a regular force
The 5k v Wolfsburg is their hard core

[QMU-1875]

I think you're judging this one too soon.

I think by early March you'll see a significant early drop off, and the key signs you and I and everyone will see (and I'm already seeing it) is jambos beginning to shift the focus elsewhere, phrases like:

Scottish footballs finished
Quality is dropping
Overpriced
Better things to do with my time
Sfa haven't a clue
Just got boring
Etcetcetc

Neatly sidestepping the fact most other fans in Scotland have had this for a while, and hearts have avoided the worst of due to financial cheating til now.

I can't speak for you but I do hear these things already.
Those jambos won't last the winter as a regular force
The 5k v Wolfsburg is their hard core
Yet they still regularly sell out the away end of Easter road, something we seem to struggle with?

[clerriehibs]

Yet they still regularly sell out the away end of Easter road, something we seem to struggle with?

We've never been given the chance to fill the away end at ER.

[carnoustiehibee]

Yet they still regularly sell out the away end of Easter road, something we seem to struggle with?

Each Jambo is assigned with a 24hr carer remember, that's why it's always full

[bingo70]

Yet they still regularly sell out the away end of Easter road, something we seem to struggle with?

Considering there record in derbies does that surprise you?

[QMU-1875]

No I suppose it doesn't but to try and turn a poor attendance in a meaningless friendly into patter is a bit stupid considering we have sold out the away end at tynecastle once in the last 3 seasons. Regardless of derby records we should be selling it out.

[Weststandwanab]

What kind hearted creditor is going to let a £4 milllion asset (maybe more) go for £2-3 million in a CVA - the PBS will be subject to at the very least a hefty rent & the associated astronomical running costs. All their cash is gonna be spent on keeping all the flashy training ground n daft friendlies to raise more needed cash - the team will be financially neglected! :agree: Precisely Spike take note.


If "essentially the same as you were" means relegation, losing nearly all your best players, unable to buy players & playing in a decrepit stadium with no money for maintenance, then I would have to agree with you. Oh, & that's the best result they can get, liquidation remains a clear possibility. The good thing is Spike I don't think you've been right about anything yet so your latest missive cheers me up! Seriously, we all hate Yams getting away with anything & we're all frustrated at their lies & propaganda but they won't be a force in Scottish football for years to come. Liquidation still a distinct possibility.


Not just the FoH stalwarts ... there's a few DDs getting cancelled now, according to sickbag. That was always going to happen.


once they start cancelling the DD then it will implode and the squabbling will start. might get a bit bumpy ahead. A definite bumpy ride ahead.

[Geo_1875]

No I suppose it doesn't but to try and turn a poor attendance in a meaningless friendly into patter is a bit stupid considering we have sold out the away end at tynecastle once in the last 3 seasons. Regardless of derby records we should be selling it out.

Derby records count on both sides. They "boycotted" the 6-2 game because of high ticket prices. Aye right. They knew they were on a hiding and didn't turn up. "We" regularly expect to get beat at Tynie so "boycott" for various reasons.

[Phil D. Rolls]

No I suppose it doesn't but to try and turn a poor attendance in a meaningless friendly into patter is a bit stupid considering we have sold out the away end at tynecastle once in the last 3 seasons. Regardless of derby records we should be selling it out.

We are talking about the size of Hearts core support and their survival chances. No one is disputing they have bigger average crowds. Why are you talking about Hibs' support? :hmmm:

[Liberal Hibby]

No I suppose it doesn't but to try and turn a poor attendance in a meaningless friendly into patter is a bit stupid considering we have sold out the away end at tynecastle once in the last 3 seasons. Regardless of derby records we should be selling it out.

The Wolfsburg game was not meaningless. They needed the cash but their supporters didn't deliver.

[blackpoolhibs]

We are talking about the size of Hearts core support and their survival chances. No one is disputing they have bigger average crowds. Why are you talking about Hibs' support? :hmmm:

:agree: Although if we'd cheated like they have for the last 30 years, our average crowd would be much higher than it currently is.

[Weststandwanab]

Yet they still regularly sell out the away end of Easter road, something we seem to struggle with? Away end capacity 3.8k their hardcore support 5k not really difficult to see why.


Considering there record in derbies does that surprise you? Precisely


No I suppose it doesn't but to try and turn a poor attendance in a meaningless friendly into patter is a bit stupid considering we have sold out the away end at tynecastle once in the last 3 seasons. Regardless of derby records we should be selling it out. Some of us refuse to contribute a penny to the Wongadome but a lot do not go, in my opinion, because of the poor record we have had there for years.

[Hermit Crab]

Precisely Spike take note.

Liquidation still a distinct possibility.

That was always going to happen.

A definite bumpy ride ahead.

If you read the posts on kb about the cancelling of dd they are firmly tongue in check stuff.


Away end capacity 3.8k their hardcore support 5k not really difficult to see why.

Precisely

Some of us refuse to contribute a penny to the Wongadome but a lot do not go, in my opinion, because of the poor record we have had there for years.

Of course it is. Our record there since the early eighties is shocking. Statos how many wins? 9-10??

[Weststandwanab]

If you read the posts on kb about the cancelling of dd they are firmly tongue in check stuff. I could not possibly do that !

[Hermit Crab]

I could not possibly do that !

Then how can you believe the post about dd getting cancelled?

[southsider]

I refuse to go coz of FTB Mercer and i suspect there are many Hibs fans think the same way.

[Bostonhibby]

Their tongues often are firmly between cheeks, sometimes even their own, but that's nothing to do with football. I know 3 yams who say they became Diddies. One never seems to have had money but says he has now cancelled, the other 2 have cancelled for reasons given above and of them I know one definitely has - they are saved though so why not? Job done, big team big tongues.


I refuse to go coz of FTB Mercer and i suspect there are many Hibs fans think the same way.

I am one and I know a few like minded people from that era.

[greenginger]

http://www.foundationofhearts.org/news/

Both Mackie and Ford cite work commitments as the reason for stepping down from the Foundation.

Not really believable, if that was the reason they could have left it a week until the CVA vote was taken and the Foundationers crowned.

I think they have done the sums and know the biddies will never get their money back and want nothing to do with the con, and taking the cash off of the suckers, sorry funders.

[Weststandwanab]

Then how can you believe the post about dd getting cancelled? I do and personally know of three cancellees !

[fat freddy]

I do and personally know of three cancellees !


is that a real word or just another new addition to our vocabulary brought on by the demise of the jambos?...we could end up with a new sub species of jambos known as 'The Cancellees'...i can see a bit of mileage in this new word and and i look forward to seeing further usage of it on this thread...perhaps it may even creep into the mainstream and before long Barry Anderson may be making tweets denying the existance of this sect....b.anderson#tweet...F.O.H claim Cancellees are not entering Bahgdad and they are a product of hobonomics fiction.

[Bostonhibby]

is that a real word or just another new addition to our vocabulary brought on by the demise of the jambos?...we could end up with a new sub species of jambos known as 'The Cancellees'...i can see a bit of mileage in this new word and and i look forward to seeing further usage of it on this thread...perhaps it may even creep into the mainstream and before long Barry Anderson may be making tweets denying the existance of this sect....b.anderson#tweet...F.O.H claim Cancellees are not entering Bahgdad and they are a product of hobonomics fiction.

:greengrin or should the cancellees become the "formerly known as diddies"? or just Sevco diddies? still prefer "Diddies that didnae" myself like............

[Weststandwanab]

is that a real word or just another new addition to our vocabulary brought on by the demise of the jambos?...we could end up with a new sub species of jambos known as 'The Cancellees'...i can see a bit of mileage in this new word and and i look forward to seeing further usage of it on this thread...perhaps it may even creep into the mainstream and before long Barry Anderson may be making tweets denying the existance of this sect....b.anderson#tweet...F.O.H claim Cancellees are not entering Bahgdad and they are a product of hobonomics fiction. I just made it up but thank you.

[jacomo]

http://www.foundationofhearts.org/news/

Both Mackie and Ford cite work commitments as the reason for stepping down from the Foundation.

Not really believable, if that was the reason they could have left it a week until the CVA vote was taken and the Foundationers crowned.

I think they have done the sums and know the biddies will never get their money back and want nothing to do with the con, and taking the cash off of the suckers, sorry funders.

No actual quote from Donald Ford, mind. :hmmm:

[JeMeSouviens]

is that a real word or just another new addition to our vocabulary brought on by the demise of the jambos?...we could end up with a new sub species of jambos known as 'The Cancellees'...i can see a bit of mileage in this new word and and i look forward to seeing further usage of it on this thread...perhaps it may even creep into the mainstream and before long Barry Anderson may be making tweets denying the existance of this sect....b.anderson#tweet...F.O.H claim Cancellees are not entering Bahgdad and they are a product of hobonomics fiction.

If it was, it shouldn't apply to the individual muppets, it should apply to the Foundation of Muppetry.

Someone who does something is a something-er, someone who has something done to them is a something-ee.

Examples - an employer employs someone, an employee is employed by someone else. A trainer trains someone, a trainee is trained by someone else.

Sadly, the popular misuse of attendee breaks this rule, it should be attender. Literally gets my goat. :grr::wink:

[greenpaper55]

If it was, it shouldn't apply to the individual muppets, it should apply to the Foundation of Muppetry.

Someone who does something is a something-er, someone who has something done to them is a something-ee.

Examples - an employer employs someone, an employee is employed by someone else. A trainer trains someone, a trainee is trained by someone else.

Sadly, the popular misuse of attendee breaks this rule, it should be attender. Literally gets my goat. :grr::wink:

You mean a goatee ?.:greengrin

[fat freddy]

If it was, it shouldn't apply to the individual muppets, it should apply to the Foundation of Muppetry.

Someone who does something is a something-er, someone who has something done to them is a something-ee.

Examples - an employer employs someone, an employee is employed by someone else. A trainer trains someone, a trainee is trained by someone else.

Sadly, the popular misuse of attendee breaks this rule, it should be attender. Literally gets my goat. :grr::wink:


so the cancellees are really cancellers and the didcos are didders..does this make hibees hibbers?...or a swarm of bees a swarm of beers...nah, that would be a round of beers surely :confused:

[Killiehibbie]

If it was, it shouldn't apply to the individual muppets, it should apply to the Foundation of Muppetry.

Someone who does something is a something-er, someone who has something done to them is a something-ee.

Examples - an employer employs someone, an employee is employed by someone else. A trainer trains someone, a trainee is trained by someone else.

Sadly, the popular misuse of attendee breaks this rule, it should be attender. Literally gets my goat. :grr::wink:
How come we don't have supervisers and instructers?