Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

[HFC 0-7]

Any cva needs to be ratified by the government in Lithuania so it may still be blocked. The shares are frozen, the reason hasn't been stipulated. If it's because of an ongoing fraud investigation then they won't be unfrozen until the investigation is complete. If it's to stop vlad getting his hands on them then they will be unfrozen as part of the cva.

[JeMeSouviens]

I've never been convinced by that line of argument. I suspect that UBIG being moved into liquidation means that its assets will be unfrozen. The point of the court freezing UBIG assets was to stop Romanov from taking the assets for himself. Appointing a liquidator means UBIG will be controlled by someone who can distribute any funds raised to its creditors, rather than Romanov.

Makes sense.

Ah well, as much as I liked the idea of them disappearing altogether, they're still deep in the *****. Although they'll get a temporary lift from this news, getting beat on Saturday and papped out of the cup next week will sober them up. Long term they've got to figure out how to get out of Div1, pay back the Biddies and find £10M odd to rebuild Tiny. The Yams that think they'll be "debt free" and back in the top league spending at least double what we or the Sheep can muster are in for a long and painful awakening.

[malagahibby]

This still has a longway to go.
they were always going to accept the offer-would you rather take something rather than nothing?
hearts will be like Portsmouth for many years to come and also they will have to settle all football debts like rangers done which includes 1.5 m to HMRC just for starters.
also they cannot sign anyone over 21 this season and will be relegated which will bring in reduced revenue for at least one season.
the troubles will continue .:flag:

[Kato]

A step closer to their fans owning and running the club, which is what I sort of wanted all along.

The idea of that bunch running Hearts appeals greatly to me. They'll be in a much worse position within months.

[Onceinawhile]

Its certainly a good start for them, though as nothing's been fully agreed yet, there is still a Long way to go - look how long it took dunfermline to exit admin after their cva was agreed.

the important thing now is for killie/st mirren/ross county to open up a gap between themselves and hearts before hmfc manage to strengthen in january and potentially after.

lets pump them out the cup and get rid of one of their potential revenue streams!

[JeMeSouviens]

This still has a longway to go.
they were always going to accept the offer-would you rather take something rather than nothing?
hearts will be like Portsmouth for many years to come and also they will have to settle all football debts like rangers done which includes 1.5 m to HMRC just for starters.
also they cannot sign anyone over 21 this season and will be relegated which will bring in reduced revenue for at least one season.
the troubles will continue .:flag:

Their football debts are ~£0.5M (and don't include HMRC). They can't sign anyone until they exit admin. If they exit admin before the end of January, they can sign under 21s. In February, assuming they're out of admin, they can sign over 21 free agents.

[Ozyhibby]

This still has a longway to go.
they were always going to accept the offer-would you rather take something rather than nothing?
hearts will be like Portsmouth for many years to come and also they will have to settle all football debts like rangers done which includes 1.5 m to HMRC just for starters.
also they cannot sign anyone over 21 this season and will be relegated which will bring in reduced revenue for at least one season.
the troubles will continue .:flag:

Definitely does not include £1.5m to hmrc

[Spike Mandela]

As I have stated many times before, the administration route is THE business plan that all fans should be demanding for their debt ridden football clubs. Usually it is the owner who loses millions or some poor patsie's who have lent him money whilst the fans go marching on as romanticised heroes as if they have saved the club but are in fact irrelevant.

Kilmarnock, Aberdeen and other will likely follow suit soon.

[Golden Bear]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24628538

[Craig_in_Prague]

Just like it was a matter of time before liquidation and a CVA wouldn't get agreed. This was always the most likely outcome and all they've got for years of cheating is a 15 point deduction for one season.

It's sad eh, for all this cheating, they deserve to be shut down and lose their ground.
instead - a small deduction in points.

If any club could come out of this mess smelling of roses, its them.

[greenpaper55]

Was just gong to post the same http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24628538

Seems it's not over by a mile

[silverhibee]

That's unimportant because all UBIG holds is a bunch of presently worthless shares and a pile of unsecured debt. If FOH have got a deal with Ukio that they can push forward with then everything else will fall into place relatively easily.

The next stage would be for BDO to arrange a meeting to formally vote on the CVA. If that passes (as it should with UBIG and Ukio support) then it would require another month or so before they exit administration. If everything is speeded up and there are no further problems they could be out of administration by Christmas, but it could possibly drag on for a month or two more.

http://rortybomb.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/you_liar.gif

[Golden Bear]

Was just gong to post the same http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24628538

Seems it's not over by a mile

:agree:

All is not lost. Let the uncertainty linger on for a few months more.

[HibbySpurs]

Looks like the Ukio admins have taken the view that "something is beter than nothing"?

So be it...... They are cut adrift at the bottom of the SPFL and with the teams directly above them picking up points now they will need nothing short of a miracle to avoid the drop.... If they go down the best they ca hope for is a play off against an SPFL side so no easy route back for them....

Also if my understanding is correct they will only be able to sign players on 01 Februaury which means no beeter than ancient journeymen that no one else wants...

The other thing is that the playing field has been levelled now, they will not be able to spend mega money on wages anymore and they have nowhere near the infrastructure we do or the capital to back it up.... They are going to be living hand to mouth from their support for a long period to come even if this goes through....

Obviously a tad annoyed about them (looking likely) wriggling out of this but that's life & Dunfermline pulled off the same feat just last week so it's not an earth shattering achievement.

What we need to do (IMO) is simply get right behind Hibs and MAKE SURE we dominate them for years to come.....

GGTTH

[Part/Time Supporter]

:agree:

All is not lost. Let the uncertainty linger on for a few months more.

Cautious / negative spin on the same news.

Ukio wouldn't let BDO proceed with a CVA meeting if they didn't intend to vote in favour of it.

[Ozyhibby]

Looks like the Ukio admins have taken the view that "something is beter than nothing"?

So be it...... They are cut adrift at the bottom of the SPFL and with the teams directly above them picking up points now they will need nothing short of a miracle to avoid the drop.... If they go down the best they ca hope for is a play off against an SPFL side so no easy route back for them....

Also if my understanding is correct they will only be able to sign players on 01 Februaury which means no beeter than ancient journeymen that no one else wants...

The other thing is that the playing field has been levelled now, they will not be able to spend mega money on wages anymore and they have nowhere near the infrastructure we do or the capital to back it up.... They are going to be living hand to mouth from their support for a long period to come even if this goes through....

Obviously a tad annoyed about them (looking likely) wriggling out of this but that's life & Dunfermline pulled off the same feat just last week so it's not an earth shattering achievement.

What we need to do (IMO) is simply get right behind Hibs and MAKE SURE we dominate them for years to come.....

GGTTH
They can only sign under 21's in feb

[HibbySpurs]

They can only sign under 21's in feb

Even better:greengrin


Thanks for the correction:thumbsup:

[God Petrie]

Don't they still need UBIG to agree??

[JeMeSouviens]

Looks like the Ukio admins have taken the view that "something is beter than nothing"?

So be it...... They are cut adrift at the bottom of the SPFL and with the teams directly above them picking up points now they will need nothing short of a miracle to avoid the drop.... If they go down the best they ca hope for is a play off against an SPFL side so no easy route back for them....

Also if my understanding is correct they will only be able to sign players on 01 Februaury which means no beeter than ancient journeymen that no one else wants...

The other thing is that the playing field has been levelled now, they will not be able to spend mega money on wages anymore and they have nowhere near the infrastructure we do or the capital to back it up.... They are going to be living hand to mouth from their support for a long period to come even if this goes through....

Obviously a tad annoyed about them (looking likely) wriggling out of this but that's life & Dunfermline pulled off the same feat just last week so it's not an earth shattering achievement.

What we need to do (IMO) is simply get right behind Hibs and MAKE SURE we dominate them for years to come.....

GGTTH

Absolutely. :agree:

btw, people who think this is bad should ponder on where things might've ended up. Imagine if Vlad had spent (someone else's) money wisely. They could be sitting pretty in a brand new wongadome after years of really challenging.

They are *****, going down and will struggle to get back. Enjoy it!

[Crossgates Hibs]

Looks like the Ukio admins have taken the view that "something is beter than nothing"?

So be it...... They are cut adrift at the bottom of the SPFL and with the teams directly above them picking up points now they will need nothing short of a miracle to avoid the drop.... If they go down the best they ca hope for is a play off against an SPFL side so no easy route back for them....

Also if my understanding is correct they will only be able to sign players on 01 Februaury which means no beeter than ancient journeymen that no one else wants...

The other thing is that the playing field has been levelled now, they will not be able to spend mega money on wages anymore and they have nowhere near the infrastructure we do or the capital to back it up.... They are going to be living hand to mouth from their support for a long period to come even if this goes through....

Obviously a tad annoyed about them (looking likely) wriggling out of this but that's life & Dunfermline pulled off the same feat just last week so it's not an earth shattering achievement.

What we need to do (IMO) is simply get right behind Hibs and MAKE SURE we dominate them for years to come.....

GGTTH

gutted to be honest wanted them to at the very least lose their ground. No doubt they will be crowing away and slavering on about being the big team without a thought to all whom they ripped off.

[CropleyWasGod]

Cautious / negative spin on the same news.

Ukio wouldn't let BDO proceed with a CVA meeting if they didn't intend to vote in favour of it.

Clarification on the CVA numbers :greengrin

Total debt is £29m, of which UKIO's security seems to be c.£5m.

That means £24m will be voting in the CVA.

75% required to pass it, is £18m.

UKIO's unsecured debt is £10m, and UBIG's £8m.

The 2 of them voting for the CVA would pass it.

Agreed?

If that's the case, UBIG still hold a fair set of cards here. They can set a hefty price for handing over the shares.

[Keith_M]

The only thing that could de-rail this now is if the UBIG Admins decide to play hard ball.

You could argue that UKIO own the only viable asset, Tynecastle, but the UBIG Admin might decide to ask for money for the 50% of shares they currently hold. Without those, there is no purchase of the club, therefore no CVA.

OK, that might not happen but if I were the UBIG Admin I'd want to at least make something from the purchase of the club. They actually have the ability to hold FoH to ransom.

There is also the small matter of the 15% of the shares held by Romanov's neice, although I'm not sure how refusing to sell them would affect any potential purchase.



EDIT: I see CWG got in ahead of me

[Ozyhibby]

Clarification on the CVA numbers :greengrin

Total debt is £29m, of which UKIO's security seems to be c.£5m.

That means £24m will be voting in the CVA.

75% required to pass it, is £18m.

UKIO's unsecured debt is £10m, and UBIG's £8m.

The 2 of them voting for the CVA would pass it.

Agreed?

If that's the case, UBIG still hold a fair set of cards here. They can set a hefty price for handing over the shares.

I wouldn't hold out much hope.

[JeMeSouviens]

Clarification on the CVA numbers :greengrin

Total debt is £29m, of which UKIO's security seems to be c.£5m.

That means £24m will be voting in the CVA.

75% required to pass it, is £18m.

UKIO's unsecured debt is £10m, and UBIG's £8m.

The 2 of them voting for the CVA would pass it.

Agreed?

If that's the case, UBIG still hold a fair set of cards here. They can set a hefty price for handing over the shares.

How does the share sale work wrt to other shareholders? Are share deals completely separate or do they have to offer all shareholders the same price? If so, then whatever UBIG get for their 50%, Ukio and the mysterious Vlad vehicle Quantum will have to get (pro-rata) also?

[Hibs07p]

I would like to hear the views of the Big Guns who have been predicting their demise, on their take of this statement, before I accept it's a done deal.

GGTTH

[God Petrie]

What's the deal with the stadium? Would any CVA include that or not?

[CropleyWasGod]

How does the share sale work wrt to other shareholders? Are share deals completely separate or do they have to offer all shareholders the same price? If so, then whatever UBIG get for their 50%, Ukio and the mysterious Vlad vehicle Quantum will have to get (pro-rata) also?

Majority holdings are always going to be worth more than minority holdings, due to the power that comes with them. So the short answer is "no", but UBIG only have the bare 50%, so the other shareholders might be in a good bargaining position.

[Dashing Bob S]

I would like to hear the views of the Big Guns who have been predicting their demise, on their take of this statement, before I accept it's a done deal.

GGTTH

Yes! Giveme Sergey! Give me Bajillions! Deano Santos! Cropley Was God!

[Hank Schrader]

Just like it was a matter of time before liquidation and a CVA wouldn't get agreed. This was always the most likely outcome and all they've got for years of cheating is a 15 point deduction for one season.

Considering your actual knowledge on the subject of insolvency equals a grand total of NIL your guesswork has been pretty good so far.

[Keith_M]

What's the deal with the stadium? Would any CVA include that or not?


OK, your point raises the issue that a lot of people are forgetting. I think it's important to highlight this now.


Firstly, a CVA is normally presented by the owners of the company in Administration. FOH are not the owners so must go through an extra step of actually buying the club first. The majority shares of the club are mostly held by the largest creditors, UKIO and UBIG (they owe it to themselves :wink:)

So, to present a CVA, to purchase the club and assets (Tynecastle), they must first get UKIO and UBIG to agree to sell/transfer the shares. If I were the UBIG Admin, I'd be playing hardball here and ask just how much FOH were willing to pay for the shares or offer them in the CVA. If it's zero, I'd tell them to bolt.

[AlbertK86]

So not a done deal yet

Even if a CVA is agreed and they keep swine castle then how much will it cost to maintain that dump ... An awfy lot I would suspect and money they would rather spend on improving their already all conquering young squad !!

Whatever happens they will have very limited spending power for the foreseeable !!

GGTTH

[CropleyWasGod]

Yes! Giveme Sergey! Give me Bajillions! Deano Santos! Cropley Was God!

See above.

[Pete]

gutted to be honest wanted them to at the very least lose their ground. No doubt they will be crowing away and slavering on about being the big team without a thought to all whom they ripped off.

No doubt but we know what they are and they know what they are. The history books will say one thing but the way it was all achieved will never leave them. We have nothing to be ashamed of and if any team has earned the title "wee" it's them.

[Keith_M]

I forgot to say, my vote in the poll was "Hearts survive but play in a lower league".


I might just get my wish after all

:wink:

[Treadstone]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/1377425_10152309253821562_56829022_n.jpg

[Keith_M]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/1377425_10152309253821562_56829022_n.jpg



As I've mentioned twice already (for emphasis)

UBIG.


Also, no mention of the 15% of shares owned by Romanov's niece. Imagine she refuses to sell and they only get 85% of the shares, agree a CVA, and it turns out Romanov still owns 15% of the club :wink:

[Ozyhibby]

The only thing that could de-rail this now is if the UBIG Admins decide to play hard ball.

You could argue that UKIO own the only viable asset, Tynecastle, but the UBIG Admin might decide to ask for money for the 50% of shares they currently hold. Without those, there is no purchase of the club, therefore no CVA.

OK, that might not happen but if I were the UBIG Admin I'd want to at least make something from the purchase of the club. They actually have the ability to hold FoH to ransom.

There is also the small matter of the 15% of the shares held by Romanov's neice, although I'm not sure how refusing to sell them would affect any potential purchase.



EDIT: I see CWG got in ahead of me

Any money UBIG admin collect is going to Ukio admin so i doubt they will be able to play hardball

[Spike Mandela]

So not a done deal yet

Even if a CVA is agreed and they keep swine castle then how much will it cost to maintain that dump ... An awfy lot I would suspect and money they would rather spend on improving their already all conquering young squad !!

Whatever happens they will have very limited spending power for the foreseeable !!

GGTTH

Why? Surely they will have the same spending power as us ie, season ticket money but with the added monthly contributions? No debt interest or mortgages either? They have reduced rent on a soon to be state of the art training facility. So they haven't got a new stand? So what? Did we really need one or indeed has it been beneficial to us? Better a full old stand than an empty new one.

[CropleyWasGod]

Why? Surely they will have the same spending power as us ie, season ticket money but with the added monthly contributions? No debt interest or mortgages either? They have reduced rent on a soon to be state of the art training facility. So they haven't got a new stand? So what? Did we really need one or indeed has it been beneficial to us? Better a full old stand than an empty new one.

They are not, despite what the spin is, debt-free in this scenario.

[Dashing Bob S]

See above.

i'm not up with play...

[PapillonVert]

Clarification on the CVA numbers :greengrin

Total debt is £29m, of which UKIO's security seems to be c.£5m.

That means £24m will be voting in the CVA.

75% required to pass it, is £18m.

UKIO's unsecured debt is £10m, and UBIG's £8m.

The 2 of them voting for the CVA would pass it.

Agreed?

If that's the case, UBIG still hold a fair set of cards here. They can set a hefty price for handing over the shares.

Or they could accept that no-one outside the secured creditor is going to get a penny back and so why waste any more time and effort when it's clear you will get nothing back whatever scenario comes to pass.

[GlenrothesHibee]

Genuinely cringeworthy reaction from Hearts fans on Facebook and Twitter. Deary me. Must be a big club thing. Makes me proud to be a Hibby.

[The Tubs]

What I would like to see clarified is the situation with the stadium. What exactly does the CVA include? What have they agreed? To rent the ground to Hearts?

Just to add, surely it would not make financial sense to sell it at a below market rate price.

[Keith_M]

Or they could accept that no-one outside the secured creditor is going to get a penny back and so why waste any more time and effort when it's clear you will get nothing back whatever scenario comes to pass.



...is also my opinion of what actually will happen.


So, it's "Hearts survive but playing in the lower leagues"

[greenginger]

The UBIG admin. being appointed on Thursday.

Will this decision be open to appeal ? can the investigations be delayed by Vald's people ?

Will the shares be " unfrozen " if the Admin. wants to do a deal ?

[God Petrie]

BBCBMcLauchlin (@BBCBMcLauchlin)
22/10/2013 16:39
Important to point out to Hearts fans no deal has been agreed in principle or otherwise. Major progress though has been made#bbcsportscot

[Ozyhibby]

...is also my opinion of what actually will happen.


So, it's "Hearts survive but playing in the lower leagues"

So about 36% are happy and the rest gutted. And that's only if they get relegated.

[Keith_M]

So about 36% are happy and the rest gutted. And that's only if they get relegated.


You can't please all of the people all of the time.


Unfortunately, the Administration processes at Football Clubs are generally not run according the wishes of fans of their biggest rivals. :wink:

[greenginger]

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dukio%2Bbankas%2B15min%26client%3Dfire fox-a%26hs%3D5zL%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official&rurl=translate.google.co.uk&sl=lt&u=http://www.15min.lt/naujiena/aktualu/lietuva/lietuvos-prokurorai-neigalus-surasti-net-ir-nesislapstancio-bankininko-vladimiro-romanovo-56-379208&usg=ALkJrhgofWvhRO33DaK7qktryoHzf9GoWQ

Our Vlad still seems to be pulling strings back in Lith. Land. It also looks like the Yams missing chairman has been in Moscow all the time.

[Ross4356]

BDO just said this is 4 out of 10 on the way to a deal being agreed, said UBIG were a further 5 out of 10

[cabbageandribs1875]

this is starting to stink..............totally and utterly STINK







****** cheats ****** DO prosper...the ****s

[hibees 7062]

You can't please all of the people all of the time.


Unfortunately, the Administration processes at Football Clubs are generally not run according the wishes of fans of their biggest rivals. :wink:

Well they should , we could have a vote on here for them and save them money :greengrin

[BH Hibs]

So the cheats are poised to get away with it? Don't think I can handle how even more pompous and arrogant they will become after this. **** Hertz

[Keith_M]

For all the Jambos looking in....


Have fun on your fight to zero points :wink:

[QMU-1875]

Was expecting this place to be in meltdown when this happened but to be honest it wasn't unexpected, football clubs tend to survive administration. Rangers situation was one that no club could survive hence they died, hearts situation however was always one that they had the potential to crawl out of. As previously mentioned hibs fans don't run the administration process.

Fortunately their squad is absolute dross and they more than likely won't stay up in the SPL. Will the yam faithful continue their direct debits after relegation to the 1st division with little chance of getting back up for a substantial amount of time? Let's wait and see...

[Aldo]

Been getting the texts already saying that THEY are back and the 1-5 & 1902 *****.

New stand etc on the cards taking capacity to 25,000 and better players lined up in Jan.

I mentioned the embargo but apparently it's all been agreed with the relevant powers that that'll be lifted in 31/12 just in time for transfer window opening.

O dear delusions if grandeur yet again.

[Craig_in_Prague]

Been getting the texts already saying that THEY are back and the 1-5 & 1902 *****.

New stand etc on the cards taking capacity to 25,000 and better players lined up in Jan.

I mentioned the embargo but apparently it's all been agreed with the relevant powers that that'll be lifted in 31/12 just in time for transfer window opening.

O dear delusions if grandeur yet again.

ach well, we can continue to celebrate how nice East Mains is and how our Balance Sheet is half decent.

[HibbySpurs]

They are not, despite what the spin is, debt-free in this scenario.

Yup dont forget someone had to pay the biddies back.... Namely the fannies....

See? I have been paying attention after all :aok:

[BigKev]

What would happen if someone made a counter offer to the UBIG administrator when appointed to buy the 50% of shares they owned in the club which guaranteed a better return that FoH's?

[ancienthibby]

Been getting the texts already saying that THEY are back and the 1-5 & 1902 *****.

New stand etc on the cards taking capacity to 25,000 and better players lined up in Jan.

I mentioned the embargo but apparently it's all been agreed with the relevant powers that that'll be lifted in 31/12 just in time for transfer window opening.

O dear delusions if grandeur yet again.

At the start of the season we were on 0 points and them were on -15 points;

We are now on +15 points and they are on -7 points.

That's a gain to us over them of plus 7 points;

Pleasing; very pleasing!

[QMU-1875]

If they come out of admin before the end of transfer window will the embargo be lifted?

[Aldo]

ach well, we can continue to celebrate how nice East Mains is and how our Balance Sheet is half decent.

Didn't give them the chance to respond with more pish but will never ever let them forget that they stole from a charity.

[Ozyhibby]

What would happen if someone made a counter offer to the UBIG administrator when appointed to buy the 50% of shares they owned in the club which guaranteed a better return that FoH's?

Unless you've got the cash I doubt it's going to happen.


Didn't give them the chance to respond with more pish but will never ever let them forget that they stole from a charity.

They don't give a toss, your wasting your time.

[TRC]

Sorry but am I missing something no one has agreed to. cva they could all go tell them to get to f***. don't see how the tax man and ukio will just say yeah we'll just take 15p in the pound. still don't think it's done and dusted they bbc report is pretty vague if you ask me. I also like bdo saying we'll all be here till the end of proceedings yeah so you can get more money for yourselves.

[Keith_M]

ach well, we can continue to celebrate how nice East Mains is and how our Balance Sheet is half decent.


I'm not really sure what point it is you're making. Are you saying we would have been better off cheating as well?


If they did agree a CVA tomorrow, have a look at the relative state of each club.

Hibs have a quality fully completed stadium, a decent squad of players and a manageable mortgage (and yes, our own training centre).

Hearts have a bunch of kids and will (despite the hype) have to pay back any money they borrowed to buy the club. They also have a stadium with one stand falling to bits and three other sub-standard stands, with little chance of fixing/replacing them soon. They're likely to be relegated this year and have to compete against The Rangers next year to get promoted again.

[CropleyWasGod]

Sorry but am I missing something no one has agreed to. cva they could all go tell them to get to f***. don't see how the tax man and ukio will just say yeah we'll just take 15p in the pound. still don't think it's done and dusted they bbc report is pretty vague if you ask me. I also like bdo saying we'll all be here till the end of proceedings yeah so you can get more money for yourselves.

It's zero pence in the £

They need 75% approval of the unsecured creditors..

UBIG and UKIO together make up 75%, just.

[rcarter1]

As I have stated many times before, the administration route is THE business plan that all fans should be demanding for their debt ridden football clubs. Usually it is the owner who loses millions or some poor patsie's who have lent him money whilst the fans go marching on as romanticised heroes as if they have saved the club but are in fact irrelevant.

Kilmarnock, Aberdeen and other will likely follow suit soon.

this.

[neilmartinrocks]

I'm not really sure what point it is you're making. Are you saying we would have been better off cheating as well?


If they did agree a CVA tomorrow, have a look at the relative state of each club.

Hibs have a quality fully completed stadium, a decent squad of players and a manageable mortgage (and yes, our own training centre).

Hearts have a bunch of kids and will (despite the hype) have to pay back any money they borrowed to buy the club. They also have a stadium with one stand falling to bits and three other sub-standard stands, with little chance of fixing/replacing them soon. They're likely to be relegated this year and have to compete against The Rangers next year to get promoted again.

Will any body TRUST them to do so though.
I mean they don't exactly have a sparkling track record on that kind of thing do they?

[Springbank]

Still suspect the future may pan out as:
2014 hearts relegated, biddies provide cash for foh to front their purchase of hmfcia

2015 hearts a distant second to the rangers and lose playoff to st mirren, crowds plummet

2016 low crowds and dwindling direct debits
Hearts win championship but struggling to pay back biddies

2017 biddies need repaid soon, worrying times at Tynecastle

[rcarter1]

Still suspect the future may pan out as:
2014 hearts relegated, biddies provide cash for foh to front their purchase of hmfcia

2015 hearts a distant second to the rangers and lose playoff to st mirren, crowds plummet

2016 low crowds and dwindling direct debits
Hearts win championship but struggling to pay back biddies

2017 biddies need repaid soon, worrying times at Tynecastle

And who exactly are the biddies? I.e. will they just let them off again? Anyway best case scenario for hearts is that they are massive favourites for relegation, and a dodgy stadium to deal with. CVA shmee Vee A.

[Hibby Kay-Yay]

Event - Hearts looking good to come out of admin

Banderson - uuggghhh...I've just came

[Sanger]

I would like to hear the views of the Big Guns who have been predicting their demise, on their take of this statement, before I accept it's a done deal.

GGTTH

Starting the CVA process is way of forcing the debtor to put the real money on the table. The major creditors want to see what is really on offer to see if comes anywhere the value they would obtain by liquidating the assets. If the FOH money upfront is well short of that valuation which is likely to be the case the creditors will reject the CVA and proceed to liquidation. This is the start of the end game folks!

[Thecat23]

Pissing myself at some of the creaming over on sickback. They actually think it's all going to be rosy. There team is down to start with, they won't have any real cash, they Prob won't come back up right away yet who comes out the woodwork? Our wee gimp Craigieboy :D A thread for "all us looking in" are they so deluded they think they will ever be close to what they were? In the words of Craigieboy himself I'm very much PLEASING at all this. Be even funnier if they still went tits up :D

[BH Hibs]

Starting the CVA process is way of forcing the debtor to put the real money on the table. The major creditors want to see what is really on offer to see if comes anywhere the value they would obtain by liquidating the assets. If the FOH money upfront is well short of that valuation which is likely to be the case the creditors will reject the CVA and proceed to liquidation. This is the start of the end game folks!

Hope you're version of events is right but the pessimist in me has its doubts

[Geo_1875]

Starting the CVA process is way of forcing the debtor to put the real money on the table. The major creditors want to see what is really on offer to see if comes anywhere the value they would obtain by liquidating the assets. If the FOH money upfront is well short of that valuation which is likely to be the ase the creditors will reject the CVA and proceed to liquidation. This is the start of the end game folks!

Surely FoH BDO Ian Murray MP Eck Salmond FM MSP SNP and George Foulkesake BT OVD J&B have been involved in serious in depth discussions with Ukio admins and the Lithuanian government for the last few months. Surely every one knows how much they are "bidding". Just seems like they've reached the decision part of the process. Could go either way.

[weecounty hibby]

Got my tickets for the cup game today and was really excited now am feeling a bit pissed off. Just wish those cheating, thieving ****bags would die but to me thst is looking very unlikely

[Aldo]

Pissing myself at some of the creaming over on sickback. They actually think it's all going to be rosy. There team is down to start with, they won't have any real cash, they Prob won't come back up right away yet who comes out the woodwork? Our wee gimp Craigieboy :D A thread for "all us looking in" are they so deluded they think they will ever be close to what they were? In the words of Craigieboy himself I'm very much PLEASING at all this. Be even funnier if they still went tits up :D

This. Yip the carrot has been dangled let's hope someone then decides to do their knees and whip that rug right from under their feet.

Now that would be funny. Zip splash all round from them but as folk have mentioned it's just starting to get interesting.

[brog]

Starting the CVA process is way of forcing the debtor to put the real money on the table. The major creditors want to see what is really on offer to see if comes anywhere the value they would obtain by liquidating the assets. If the FOH money upfront is well short of that valuation which is likely to be the case the creditors will reject the CVA and proceed to liquidation. This is the start of the end game folks!

I had similar thoughts, really hope you're correct!

[Ryan91]

Event - Hearts looking good to come out of admin

Banderson - uuggghhh...I've just came

:faf:

[Zazu62]

Starting the CVA process is way of forcing the debtor to put the real money on the table. The major creditors want to see what is really on offer to see if comes anywhere the value they would obtain by liquidating the assets. If the FOH money upfront is well short of that valuation which is likely to be the case the creditors will reject the CVA and proceed to liquidation. This is the start of the end game folks!

I believe in u desantos0773, your are the man.

[Hibs07p]

Starting the CVA process is way of forcing the debtor to put the real money on the table. The major creditors want to see what is really on offer to see if comes anywhere the value they would obtain by liquidating the assets. If the FOH money upfront is well short of that valuation which is likely to be the case the creditors will reject the CVA and proceed to liquidation. This is the start of the end game folks!

That's what I'm wanting to hear. Still a chance the poppy stealers will be fv<ked.

GGTTH

[Kato]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24628538

Cutting through the spin this bit seems a tad ominous.



"We are still far away from the end of the legal process which we all shall endure, but this is a step forward nevertheless." - Gintaras Adomonis, bankruptcy administrator of AB Ukio Bankas

[500miles]

Did the Oldco no get to this point just before getting the CVA refused, and going pop?

[CropleyWasGod]

Did the Oldco no get to this point just before getting the CVA refused, and going pop?

Different situations.

OldCo needed to get the CVA approved by HMRC in order to get the 75% majority.They failed.

In Hearts case, they don't need HMRC's approval. UBIG and UKIO together will probably make the 75%.

[Kato]

In Hearts case, they don't need HMRC's approval. UBIG and UKIO together will probably make the 75%.

If they accept the CVA.

[Brooster]

Its a good news story to cancel out the bad news story from the weekend. All aimed at getting the merricks to dig deep again. They are renowned for it.

[RoYO!]

It was always the case that hertz would get a cva on the table to be considered, no?

And it was always the case that ukio/ ubig would have to be seen to consider it??

Other than that has anything happened?

[PatHead]

Tonight Hearts U20s 0 Aberdeen U20s 5. Wonder how long it will take for the big team to suffer a result like that

[StevieC]

Tonight Hearts U20s 0 Aberdeen U20s 5. Wonder how long it will take for the big team to suffer a result like that

I thought their U20's were the big team???? :dunno:

[green glory]

Despite the fact nowt concrete has been agreed, Banderson will still be tugging himself soft and sore tonight I'm sure.

[Onion]

Where does this leave the Yams and their Listing Application for their death-trap of a Stand ? Catch 22pointsback for them.

[Aldo]

Tonight Hearts U20s 0 Aberdeen U20s 5. Wonder how long it will take for the big team to suffer a result like that

Hopefully a week the morn mate

[Sanger]

Hope you're version of events is right but the pessimist in me has its doubts

You have to overcome the inherit pessimism of being a Hibs fan!

[PatHead]

Despite the fact nowt concrete has been agreed, Banderson will still be tugging himself soft and sore tonight I'm sure.

Maybe he is taking it tonight

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Gintaras Adomonis - anagram in waiting Shirley...

[Weststandwanab]

Starting the CVA process is way of forcing the debtor to put the real money on the table. The major creditors want to see what is really on offer to see if comes anywhere the value they would obtain by liquidating the assets. If the FOH money upfront is well short of that valuation which is likely to be the case the creditors will reject the CVA and proceed to liquidation. This is the start of the end game folks! I agree !

[SkintHibby]

I agree !

Clutching. At. Straws.

Sadly, the cheating crunts will survive this.

[Weststandwanab]

Did the Oldco no get to this point just before getting the CVA refused, and going pop?They did and became Sevco !


Clutching. At. Straws.

Sadly, the cheating crunts will survive this. As a newco possibly . !

[green day]

As has been stated a few times today, most footy clubs - even those with huge debts - get 'through' administration in some shape or form.

The key is what they will look like post admin in their new FOH run world.


They need to appoint some form of board, one which will require (you can bet your last cent this is part of their constitution) that they never get in this state again - no matter what the screaming hordes demand.
That means - no surprise to us - they cant afford to pay £5 - £10k per week for players.
This means that - for the first time in my recent memory - we have a reasonably level playing field in player budgets.
No matter that the keechbackers bang on about 'biggest budget outside Celtic' the truth is their gates and (non vlad financed) budget are very similar to us, aberdeen, Dundee Utd etc - they simply wont be able to finance the 'Big Team Players' that all their younger fans have presumed is their divine right.

And when this realisation kicks in - remember that all that loaned cash to pay the CVA needs repaid from the direct debits - do we really think that all those who signed up £51 per month will continue? Maybe for 6 months? Maybe a year? Enough to repay the £3-£5Million for the CVA? I dunno.

Bottom line, I want them liquidated as much as the next person - but it might not happen.

They can bang on all they like about their last 3 cup wins, and the history books will show they were won - that cant be erased - but we all know, and they all know, that they were bought with £30Million plus of very dodgy cash - no different to stupid people running up credit card debts.

[BH Hibs]

You have to overcome the inherit pessimism of being a Hibs fan!

:greengrin. I've been told that for the best part of forty years mate but you're right **** them onwards and upwards. GGTTH

[Leithenhibby]

Clutching. At. Straws.

Sadly, the cheating crunts will survive this.

Seriously.....

And how do you come to this conclusion?.... :wink:

[The Green Goblin]

To put all of this in perspective, anything that smells vaguely positive about the yams right now is about them escaping certain death to exist as a bare bones, struggling, poor, desperate version of their former unpleasant selves. It just makes all the "celebrating" from them seem even more amusing and pitiful really.

[Dashing Bob S]

Seriously.....

And how to you come to this conclusion?.... :wink:

I'm predicting it's going to go tits up big time for them.

[weecounty hibby]

Seriously.....

And how to you come to this conclusion?.... :wink:

To be honest i agree with him. I know diddley squat about financial matters but i do know they are a lucky shower of *******s!

[Leithenhibby]

To be honest i agree with him. I know diddley squat about financial matters but i do know they are a lucky shower of *******s!

Nothing has been decided as yet, they will suffer for years and years to come. No Mr money bags now to fund them.

This was always going to happen, the CVA was always going to be put on the table.

Let's just see who blinks first........ :aok:

[#FromTheCapital]

Starting the CVA process is way of forcing the debtor to put the real money on the table. The major creditors want to see what is really on offer to see if comes anywhere the value they would obtain by liquidating the assets. If the FOH money upfront is well short of that valuation which is likely to be the case the creditors will reject the CVA and proceed to liquidation. This is the start of the end game folks!

Find this very hard to believe. Everyone on here (including me) goes on about fannies like Barry Anderson or whoever putting a positive spin on everything, but this is just as bad.

[SteveHFC]

Pissing myself at some of the creaming over on sickback. They actually think it's all going to be rosy. There team is down to start with, they won't have any real cash, they Prob won't come back up right away yet who comes out the woodwork? Our wee gimp Craigieboy :D A thread for "all us looking in" are they so deluded they think they will ever be close to what they were? In the words of Craigieboy himself I'm very much PLEASING at all this. Be even funnier if they still went tits up :D

Don't worry mate Craigieboy will be in tears next Wednesday after we put them out of the league cup :aok:

[The Green Goblin]

Don't worry mate Craigieboy will be in tears next Wednesday after we put them out of the league cup :aok:

Yup. Tears of pride. :greengrin

[Bristolhibby]

Yup. Tears of pride. :greengrin

So very proud.

[Waxy]

Now that think they're saved, there will be "sack locke" threads every saturday night. Sign rudi sign paulo.straight back into the jambo mentality.

[Chuck Rhoades]

Can someone PM the list of companies they are/were due cash to assp please?

[IWasThere2016]

The tax-dodging, charity-robbing, puddle-drinking, rat-eaters will still have a **** team, a **** stadium, no training facilities and Locke the cock! What's to worry about .. Oh, and they're going doon to join Der Hun and possibly their nemesis at Dens. The DDs will dry up and they've no real means of improving the financial situation. They will soon be irrelevant..

[Pedantic_Hibee]

Can't help but think their gloating over the road will come back to haunt them. Justifiably so given their crass lack of remorse for the amount of other innocent people's money they've spent.

It's a level playing field this year and we are already schooling them.

[Onion]

Nothing has been decided as yet, they will suffer for years and years to come. No Mr money bags now to fund them.

This was always going to happen, the CVA was always going to be put on the table.

Let's just see who blinks first........ :aok:

If they get out of Admin still owning their ground and (virtually) debt free, it will be a massive victory for them. Yes, immoral and abhorrent, but the Yams won't care about that. They were in a terrible state when Vlad took over. Since then, they've had £70M of investment, cup wins, great players, big Euro nights and virtually cleared their £20M of debt for the cost of what .... a 15 point penalty (and possible relegation) ?

If they agree a CVA, they'll still be in a better financial position than when Vlad took over and will quickly find new, willing investors.

[cocopops1875]

Can someone PM the list of companies they are/were due cash to assp please?

No if it has anything to do with SmokeBombs :devil:

[Craig_in_Prague]

If they get out of Admin still owning their ground and (virtually) debt free, it will be a massive victory for them. Yes, immoral and abhorrent, but the Yams won't care about that. They were in a terrible state when Vlad took over. Since then, they've had £70M of investment, cup wins, great players, big Euro nights and virtually cleared their £20M of debt for the cost of what .... a 15 point penalty (and possible relegation) ?

If they agree a CVA, they'll still be in a better financial position than when Vlad took over and will quickly find new, willing investors.

I dont think anyone really cares, other than hibs.net
The media has spinned the whole situation all along, to be different and never once have Hearts be shown in bad light.
They still have a small chance of staying up this season, with Killie to play this weekend - they win that & they could start clawing back points.

Years and years of cheaing and a pathetic wee points penalty. It's disgusting and makes me want to cut my ties with Scottish Football completely.

[Pretty Boy]

If they get out of Admin still owning their ground and (virtually) debt free, it will be a massive victory for them. Yes, immoral and abhorrent, but the Yams won't care about that. They were in a terrible state when Vlad took over. Since then, they've had £70M of investment, cup wins, great players, big Euro nights and virtually cleared their £20M of debt for the cost of what .... a 15 point penalty (and possible relegation) ?

If they agree a CVA, they'll still be in a better financial position than when Vlad took over and will quickly find new, willing investors.

What new, willing investors? No one in their right mind would invest in Scottish football without an ulterior motive. If anyone was wishing to invest in Scottish football there are plenty teams that would bite their hand off for cash.

This news was hardly unexpected, the process of tabling a CVA was always going yo begin sooner rather than later and there is a decent chance it will be accepted. Hearts situation is a million miles from rosy though. A stadium in urgent need of attention, a team of youngsters nowhere near as good as they think, at least 1 season in the 1st division with the reduced revenue that goes with that.

Hearts have been living in a little bubble for years now whilst the rest of us have faced up to the financial realities of Scottish football. They will now learn what it's like to see players walk away for nothing when you can't meet their demands, having to sell players for less than fans think they are worth, missing out on free agents because you can't offer more than League 1 clubs in England etc.

As for their fans, **** them. That thread over on kickback is pitiful. Gloating about ripping of charities and small businesses, not big or clever. I've no sympathy for fans of clubs like Leeds, Portsmouth, Hearts or Rangers. They were happy enough to lord it over everyone when times were good so they can deal with it when times are bad.

[lyonhibs]

Can't help but think their gloating over the road will come back to haunt them. Justifiably so given their crass lack of remorse for the amount of other innocent people's money they've spent.

It's a level playing field this year and we are already schooling them.

Just like in the last derby?? :confused:

One thing strikes me, and I am far from an expert in financial matters. A CVA is - correct me if I'm wrong - a proposal on what repayment structure/% of debts would be repaid to creditors. Obviously, FOH have put one together that is credible/meets Ukio Bankas expectations. I suppose that in order for Ukio Bankas to have accepted it, they must have had a look at the numbers behind FOH in terms of pledges and the value thereof and decided that FOH are not a bunch of 2 bit shysters who are all talk. Fair enough.

But FOH don't actually own Hearts in any of its various guises, so for this CVA acceptance to mean much they still have to go through the small step of buying the club before they can start working on paying off its creditors to the tune of <insert risible pence in the pound here>. Is that right? Or is the CVA that Ukio Bankas have accepted actually FOH proposal to buy the club?

Either way, a long way to go but no doubt the "best" news HoMFC have had re: progress to exiting admin for quite some time.

[QMU-1875]

Would hearts be allowed to sign players if this goes through before transfer window? Seem to remember that SFA placed an embargo on them till end of February regardless of whether they were still in admin?

[Thecat23]

Would hearts be allowed to sign players if this goes through before transfer window? Seem to remember that SFA placed an embargo on them till end of February regardless of whether they were still in admin?

Only under 21's in Jan if out of Admin I think. Then from Feb 1st any out of contract players can sign.

They may think this is all great news but they won't have any real cash to be honest to buy players and will defo go down. Hearts as we knew them are dead. Let them pretend all is great when really they are so ****ed they may never properly recover. :greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

Can someone PM the list of companies they are/were due cash to assp please?

Here you go.11203

[CropleyWasGod]

If they get out of Admin still owning their ground and (virtually) debt free, it will be a massive victory for them. Yes, immoral and abhorrent, but the Yams won't care about that. They were in a terrible state when Vlad took over. Since then, they've had £70M of investment, cup wins, great players, big Euro nights and virtually cleared their £20M of debt for the cost of what .... a 15 point penalty (and possible relegation) ?

If they agree a CVA, they'll still be in a better financial position than when Vlad took over and will quickly find new, willing investors.

Not sure I agree.

When Vlad took over, they had an offer for Tynie of £22m. Their debt was £16m. Net assets therefore £6m.

If the CVA happens, their ground is worth (per the offer) around £5m. Their debt is not far short of that. The main stand needs replacing. They have very little working capital.

[Leithenhibby]

If they get out of Admin still owning their ground and (virtually) debt free, it will be a massive victory for them. Yes, immoral and abhorrent, but the Yams won't care about that. They were in a terrible state when Vlad took over. Since then, they've had £70M of investment, cup wins, great players, big Euro nights and virtually cleared their £20M of debt for the cost of what .... a 15 point penalty (and possible relegation) ?

If they agree a CVA, they'll still be in a better financial position than when Vlad took over and will quickly find new, willing investors.

I hope they do come out of this owning the ground. Did you know that the insurance for the main stand alone is £300,000 pa, and that figure is from a few years back... :wink:

In the start, I always wanted them to be in a lower league with a young squad, and little to no experience. Never wanted them to die as I do want to get as much revenge as possible. We will never put that result to bed if they die, and we will, one day/ night, we will do them good and proper.

GGTTH :wink:

[truehibernian]

Only under 21's in Jan if out of Admin I think. Then from Feb 1st any out of contract players can sign.

They may think this is all great news but they won't have any real cash to be honest to buy players and will defo go down. Hearts as we knew them are dead. Let them pretend all is great when really they are so ****ed they may never properly recover. :greengrin

Alas TC, don't worry.......in February 2014 Sir Rudolph Skacel of Prague is going to come riding into Tynecastle on his trusty white steed 'FiveOne', and lead the maroon malcontents to safety by charging them up the table...........hope they have a huge nosebag for him.......Skacel that is, not the horse :fibber:

I'm laughing apples at certain Hearts fans thinking their current squad will get a huge lift from this 'news' - in all my years following football I can't remember too many pro footballers reading the Financial Times or the Economist, rather they read the Sun and Nuts - players don't really give two hoots what's happening in board rooms or off the field. They play football and get a pay cheque (sometimes) for doing so. Hearts were always going to survive in one form or another and the players know that (they see The Rangers and Dunfermline still here as proof).

Certainly isn't going to raise skill levels on the field or make Locke a better 'manager'. Their huge battle this season is not admin, it's relegation - which could hurt them big time if they drop and don't come back up first time of asking.

[Thecat23]

Alas TC, don't worry.......in February 2014 Sir Rudolph Skacel of Prague is going to come riding into Tynecastle on his trusty white steed 'FiveOne', and lead the maroon malcontents to safety by charging them up the table...........hope they have a huge nosebag for him.......Skacel that is, not the horse :fibber:

I'm laughing apples at certain Hearts fans thinking their current squad will get a huge lift from this 'news' - in all my years following football I can't remember too many pro footballers reading the Financial Times or the Economist, rather they read the Sun and Nuts - players don't really give two hoots what's happening in board rooms or off the field. They play football and get a pay cheque (sometimes) for doing so. Hearts were always going to survive in one form or another and the players know that (they see The Rangers and Dunfermline still here as proof).

Certainly isn't going to raise skill levels on the field or make Locke a better 'manager'. Their huge battle this season is not admin, it's relegation - which could hurt them big time if they drop and don't come back up first time of asking.

Exactly mate. They really are going to toil when they drop. The squad as well that they will have will be rotten. As much as it's good for them that they will survive they are in for a torrid time on the park and that for me is PLEASING! :greengrin

[greenginger]

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dukio%2Bbankas%2B15min%26client%3Dfire fox-a%26hs%3DTea%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official&rurl=translate.google.co.uk&sl=lt&u=http://www.15min.lt/naujiena/aktualu/lietuva/begliu-nebenorintis-buti-vladimiras-romanovas-bandys-nusidereti-milijonu-lito-pinigini-uzstata-56-379283&usg=ALkJrhgCZKPdGyV0JpyoYdw0moSBjhu6Eg

Vlad going back to Lith. Land.:fibber:

[Phil D. Rolls]

When I saw Jackson on the news last night, he didn't look like a man that had got out if jail. In fact, he said the Yams were only 4/10ths of the way to being saved, as there are two more big obstacles to overcome. I'd say his stance on yesterday's news was neutral at best.

The STV reporter pointed out, that even with a CVA, Dunfermline came within minutes of being liquidated last week. I think the Yams have dodged the first bullet, rather than made any progress.

The scenario has to be a good one. I can't think of any club that has entered administration and bounced back to its former status quickly. Rangers, Livingston, Dunfermline, Dundee, Leeds United, Portsmouth etc Of those Rangers (sorry Yams) are the only ones with a fan base that can generate enough income to out buy their opponents.

Unless anyone is mad enough to pump a fortune into Hearts, they will have to settle for developing their own talent, and competing for other clubs players on the same terms as the rest of us.

Yams that lived through the 70s know what's going on. It would be a real find if someone could turn up their "sack the board poster" circa 1980.

[clerriehibs]

Exactly mate. They really are going to toil when they drop. The squad as well that they will have will be rotten. As much as it's good for them that they will survive they are in for a torrid time on the park and that for me is PLEASING! :greengrin

If they do come through, regardless of whether it's premier or championship, their STs will sell well because of the 'feel good' factor.

Assuming the new debt isn't too onerous, seems to me they'll be in at least as good a situation for signing new players next season as anyone other than the infirm.

[Andy74]

Not sure I agree.

When Vlad took over, they had an offer for Tynie of £22m. Their debt was £16m. Net assets therefore £6m.

If the CVA happens, their ground is worth (per the offer) around £5m. Their debt is not far short of that. The main stand needs replacing. They have very little working capital.

I presume the purchase price and initial working capital will all be debt on day one?

[Thecat23]

If they do come through, regardless of whether it's premier or championship, their STs will sell well because of the 'feel good' factor.

Assuming the new debt isn't too onerous, seems to me they'll be in at least as good a situation for signing new players next season as anyone other than the infirm.

You think? I honestly can't see it mate. I think dropping down will have a huge effect. Plus where is the money coming from each year to maintain the cost of running the club and policing, keeping the stadium fit for folk to sit in? I really do think this will still end bad for Hearts overall and they will be less than average at best. Just my opinion of course. Suppose we'll have to just wait and see.

[Liberal Hibby]

You think? I honestly can't see it mate. I think dropping down will have a huge effect. Plus where is the money coming from each year to maintain the cost of running the club and policing, keeping the stadium fit for folk to sit in? I really do think this will still end bad for Hearts overall and they will be less than average at best. Just my opinion of course. Suppose we'll have to just wait and see.

IIRC we lost well over £1 million in 1998/99 when we were in the first division. So Hearts are likely add to their new debt pile next season and may well have a further season to cover out of the top tier.

It is nonsense to say they will walk away debt free - they'll probably have a higher level of debt (and certainly higher debt financing costs) than we will, with higher running costs, and lower TV and corporate revenue.

They face a long road back to competitiveness - assuming they survive administration (which still isn't certain).

[Onion]

Not sure I agree.

When Vlad took over, they had an offer for Tynie of £22m. Their debt was £16m. Net assets therefore £6m.

If the CVA happens, their ground is worth (per the offer) around £5m. Their debt is not far short of that. The main stand needs replacing. They have very little working capital.

Then without Vlad they would now be sitting with an asset valued at £5m, debts of £16+m, a deteriorating stand - a considerably worst position that they are now.

Given where they were in 2005, I can't think of any business model that would have performed better. Amoral but pure genius.

[bingo70]

IIRC we lost well over £1 million in 1998/99 when we were in the first division. So Hearts are likely add to their new debt pile next season and may well have a further season to cover out of the top tier.

It is nonsense to say they will walk away debt free - they'll probably have a higher level of debt (and certainly higher debt financing costs) than we will, with higher running costs, and lower TV and corporate revenue.

They face a long road back to competitiveness - assuming they survive administration (which still isn't certain).

Will they be able to get debt? I thought it'd be a while before they'd be offered any credit facilities.

[Thecat23]

IIRC we lost well over £1 million in 1998/99 when we were in the first division. So Hearts are likely add to their new debt pile next season and may well have a further season to cover out of the top tier.

It is nonsense to say they will walk away debt free - they'll probably have a higher level of debt (and certainly higher debt financing costs) than we will, with higher running costs, and lower TV and corporate revenue.

They face a long road back to competitiveness - assuming they survive administration (which still isn't certain).

Spot on, that is how I see it panning out.

[lord bunberry]

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dukio%2Bbankas%2B15min%26client%3Dfire fox-a%26hs%3DTea%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official&rurl=translate.google.co.uk&sl=lt&u=http://www.15min.lt/naujiena/aktualu/lietuva/begliu-nebenorintis-buti-vladimiras-romanovas-bandys-nusidereti-milijonu-lito-pinigini-uzstata-56-379283&usg=ALkJrhgCZKPdGyV0JpyoYdw0moSBjhu6Eg

Vlad going back to Lith. Land.:fibber:

Stay safe sweet prince.

[Liberal Hibby]

Will they be able to get debt? I thought it'd be a while before they'd be offered any credit facilities.

Isn't that where the biddies come in? And if they are offered commercial credit facilities eg overdraft it is not going to be on the sort of terms we get with Farmer guaranteeing the mortgages for the stands.

But Crops or Caversham will no doubt be along with chapter and verse.

[rcarter1]

You think? I honestly can't see it mate. I think dropping down will have a huge effect. Plus where is the money coming from each year to maintain the cost of running the club and policing, keeping the stadium fit for folk to sit in? I really do think this will still end bad for Hearts overall and they will be less than average at best. Just my opinion of course. Suppose we'll have to just wait and see.

Season ticket sales,match tickets, sponsorship, merchandise and TV. Its the same for all clubs. They were so up against it recently because they were out of sync paying regarding income and paying big wages. Get through the season, and they are much like everyone else in terms of money coming in and bills (cough cough) to pay.

[Treadstone]

I presume the purchase price and initial working capital will all be debt on day one?

Working capital coming from the FANNIES DIDDIES is it not ?

[Part/Time Supporter]

Then without Vlad they would now be sitting with an asset valued at £5m, debts of £16+m, a deteriorating stand - a considerably worst position that they are now.

Given where they were in 2005, I can't think of any business model that would have performed better. Amoral but pure genius.

That's a false hypothesis. If Vlad hadn't come in, they would have had to proceed with the Cala deal. This would have allowed them to take advantage of unusually high land values in the mid 2000s, as indeed Hibs did with their car park land. Hearts would have then had to play at Murrayfield for a while, but no doubt the council would have soon helped them out.

[Liberal Hibby]

Get through the season, and they are much like everyone else in terms of money coming in and bills (cough cough) to pay.

Except they won't get decent if any credit terms, they'll have limited TV money being out of the top tier, higher running costs on their stadium, the biddies capital to pay back on god knows what terms etc. Oh and no certianty of an instant return to the top flight - so they may have to do is again for another year.

The Rangers spent 50% more than their income last year - Hearts won't necessarily be that extravagent but they face continued losses even if they make it out of admin.

[Keith_M]

Gintaras Adomonis - anagram in waiting Shirley...


A Damnations, Go Sir

...or a new adjective...

Administrogasmo

[Ozyhibby]

Except they won't get decent if any credit terms, they'll have limited TV money being out of the top tier, higher running costs on their stadium, the biddies capital to pay back on god knows what terms etc. Oh and no certianty of an instant return to the top flight - so they may have to do is again for another year.

The Rangers spent 50% more than their income last year - Hearts won't necessarily be that extravagent but they face continued losses even if they make it out of admin.

They won't be able to make losses. They will have to trade at least at break even as they won't have access to credit.

[CropleyWasGod]

A Damnations, Go Sir

...or a new adjective...

Administrogasmo

To admin is orgasm.

[brog]

Wow, I'm as depressed as anyone but we need to calm down a tad.
Firstly, a CVA hasn't even been prepared let alone accepted. The way the undertaker is talking leads me to believe UBIG may have a bigger influence than accepted knowledge on this board would suggest. That's even allowing for the inherent caution, ok fence-sitting, of accountants. I'm a glass full kind of person so I prefer to go along with views of Cat etc. but I do think they still have a long way to go. They also have to pay football debts, about £400k iirc & if HMRC are stiffed for best part of £2m then they're going to be all over Yams next time a payment is overdue. If they do go down, & they're overwhelming favourites to do so, they will struggle to come straight back. They couldn't win the 2nd tier in the 70/80s ( maybe once out of 4? ) & in 2 games vs lower opposition this season they've drawn both over 90/120 mins. That's without the malign influence of their big cousins being taken into account!
A final question, does anyone know if the staff at PBS are being paid yet? Yet another cause for pride that low earners are shafted while footballers & BDO earn a ( comparative ) fortune.

[Hibby Kay-Yay]

They won't be able to make losses. They will have to trade at least at break even as they won't have access to credit.

They could get Ann Budge to guarantee their credit, similar to Farmer for us.

[Keith_M]

They could get Ann Budge to guarantee their credit, similar to Farmer for us.


STF has done this because he owns 90% of the club. Ann Budge has only put up the money for others to buy Hearts, she does not want to own it and wants all of her money back (with interest). It's not exactly the same situation.

[Dashing Bob S]

When I saw Jackson on the news last night, he didn't look like a man that had got out if jail. In fact, he said the Yams were only 4/10ths of the way to being saved, as there are two more big obstacles to overcome. I'd say his stance on yesterday's news was neutral at best.

The STV reporter pointed out, that even with a CVA, Dunfermline came within minutes of being liquidated last week. I think the Yams have dodged the first bullet, rather than made any progress.

The scenario has to be a good one. I can't think of any club that has entered administration and bounced back to its former status quickly. Rangers, Livingston, Dunfermline, Dundee, Leeds United, Portsmouth etc Of those Rangers (sorry Yams) are the only ones with a fan base that can generate enough income to out buy their opponents.

Unless anyone is mad enough to pump a fortune into Hearts, they will have to settle for developing their own talent, and competing for other clubs players on the same terms as the rest of us.

Yams that lived through the 70s know what's going on. It would be a real find if someone could turn up their "sack the board poster" circa 1980.

I think this is about where they are at.

UKIOS admins were always going to agree the CVA as its the only show in town.

UBIG admins will look at the bigger picture and that will come down to the question: will the amount of cashed actually realised by the FOH bid, be greater or less than the value of the assets and the hassle of selling them on the open market? (the assets being the land the PBS stands on.)

This won't happen quickly, Hearts are a very small part of their inquiry.

This is why Jackson is being (correctly) circumspect.

[Keith_M]

UKIOS admins were always going to agree the CVA as its the only show in town.



I think a lot of people had hoped that they would be willing to consider the alternative option of selling Tynecastle separately. I for one can't believe they wouldn't make more money that way. For all the posturing by FOH, it has to be worth a lot more than the 2M they're offering.

However, the simplest option for them has always been to agree a CVA.

[Part/Time Supporter]

I think this is about where they are at.

UKIOS admins were always going to agree the CVA as its the only show in town.

UBIG admins will look at the bigger picture and that will come down to the question: will the amount of cashed actually realised by the FOH bid, be greater or less than the value of the assets and the hassle of selling them on the open market? (the assets being the land the PBS stands on.)

This won't happen quickly, Hearts are a very small part of their inquiry.

This is why Jackson is being (correctly) circumspect.

You've got it the wrong way round. Ukio have the security and have chosen to progress with the FOH offer to the CVA stage, rather than calling in that security and breaking up the company.

Jackson's being cautious because that's his job. There are also other deals to agree with UBIG and the Swiss company, and they have to ensure that there is enough cash on hand to keep Hearts operating until FOH are able to complete the take over. But the fundamental decision, whether to sell as a going concern or to break it up, appears to have been made.

[Leishy1995]

http://m.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/hearts-could-escape-administration-by-christmas-1-3152581

Great reporting here.

Ps uncle joe's comments a cracker

[Keith_M]

http://m.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/hearts-could-escape-administration-by-christmas-1-3152581

Great reporting here.


#allisbarry

[TonyStokeprano]

Does anyone know if the dirty smelly puddledrinking vermin tramps still have to pay back the 1.5 million they were due HMRC ?

[CropleyWasGod]

Does anyone know if the dirty smelly puddledrinking vermin tramps still have to pay back the 1.5 million they were due HMRC ?

I do.

And they won't.

[Keith_M]

Does anyone know if the dirty smelly puddledrinking vermin tramps still have to pay back the 1.5 million they were due HMRC ?


Yes, but it's a pence in the pound agreement (if a CVA is agreed). The exact amount will be zero pence in the pound making a grand total of, ehm, zero.



A lot of people don't seem to be getting this whole "Administration is a legal way to avoid paying your bills" thing.

[21.05.2016]

Typical that those jammy, slimey *******s squirm their way out of trouble again. Cheating low lifes. then of course their self deluded, arrogant fans will be back giving it the big un' having escaped scott free. ****ing sickening!


Hearts of Midlothian - the club with no shame!

[Phil D. Rolls]

11204

[The Falcon]

Yes, but it's a pence in the pound agreement (if a CVA is agreed). The exact amount will be zero pence in the pound making a grand total of, ehm, zero.


Which begs the question why would such an agreement be acceptable to UBIG? Presuming they are truly independent of UKIO.

[PatHead]

Which begs the question why would such an agreement be acceptable to UBIG? Presuming they are truly independent of UKIO.

We can only hope.............remember the Hibs' lady shareholder who held out against the deid Wallet Merger

[jacomo]

Which begs the question why would such an agreement be acceptable to UBIG? Presuming they are truly independent of UKIO.

The only asset is Tynecastle. The only bidder is FOH. No one is going to get any money except the owners of Tynecastle and the "football" debtors.

[PatHead]

The only asset is Tynecastle. The only bidder is FOH. No one is going to get any money except the owners of Tynecastle and the "football" debtors.

Not sure if the football debtors won't get bumped as well. There is no agreement in Scotland that they get priority. The Rangers had to pay theirs as it was a condition of the new club entering the league.

[Dashing Bob S]

you've got it the wrong way round. Ukio have the security and have chosen to progress with the foh offer to the cva stage, rather than calling in that security and breaking up the company.

Jackson's being cautious because that's his job. There are also other deals to agree with ubig and the swiss company, and they have to ensure that there is enough cash on hand to keep hearts operating until foh are able to complete the take over. But the fundamental decision, whether to sell as a going concern or to break it up, appears to have been made.

noooooooooooooooo...

[Deansy]

It is a sore-one no doubt about that but the bigger picture is them facing a future of fielding players they CAN afford - that'll work wonders for their attendances/DD's !!! Back on track to pre-Mercer times !

[s.a.m]

Not sure if the football debtors won't get bumped as well. There is no agreement in Scotland that they get priority. The Rangers had to pay theirs as it was a condition of the new club entering the league.

Perhaps not in terms of the Administration of the club. Football debts though (IIRC) are an issue for the football authorities, with potentially severe consequences for non-payment

[leggeto]

I just want them to be homeless and skint with a whipping boy team for years to come is there a chance this will happen

[CropleyWasGod]

Not sure if the football debtors won't get bumped as well. There is no agreement in Scotland that they get priority. The Rangers had to pay theirs as it was a condition of the new club entering the league.

They will have to pay as a condition of being granted the SFA Licence.


Which begs the question why would such an agreement be acceptable to UBIG? Presuming they are truly independent of UKIO.

They will demand something for the shares.

[PatHead]

They will have to pay as a condition of being granted the SFA Licence.



But it is surely different as Rangers went to the wall and had to re-apply, not so sure SFA could impose this if this is "only" administration. Maybe it is the cynic in me but I just have a feeling they will wriggle out of these debts as well.

[CropleyWasGod]

But it is surely different as Rangers went to the wall and had to re-apply, not so sure SFA could impose this if this is "only" administration. Maybe it is the cynic in me but I just have a feeling they will wriggle out of these debts as well.

A club is granted a licence annually.

[PatHead]

A club is granted a licence annually.

Lets start petitioning! How much are their football debts?

[CropleyWasGod]

Lets start petitioning! How much are their football debts?

£535,180.

[Keith_M]

With all the Doom and Gloom on here and the general wrist slitting, I'd expected to look at the papers and read endless stories about Hearts joy of coming out of Administration. Funnily enough, I couldn't find any.


Is there any chance both the Hearts and Hibs support are being a tad premature in the reading of the latest event? :hmmm:

[greenginger]

They will have to pay as a condition of being granted the SFA Licence.



They will demand something for the shares.


PTS had a guess of a figure of about £ 100,000. Would there not be an opportunity for a group of upstanding persons with an interest in natural justice to put in a higher offer.

It must be worth £ 200 K to put these bassas in the ground. :greengrin

Also, when UBIG gets an administrator appointed, will that administrator not need to get cash for any assets still held by UBIG just to finance his own fees. I don't think Vlad will have left anything of value in the Company since he had plenty time to strip it before the assets were frozen.

There was an article in yesterdays Lith newspaper about Shares in the Kauno Arena and another bit of property that was supposed to be part of the frozen assets but they had already been transferred.

Who knows, maybe the new admin will find UBIG's Hearts Shares have found their way to Switzerland.

[Ozyhibby]

With all the Doom and Gloom on here and the general wrist slitting, I'd expected to look at the papers and read endless stories about Hearts joy of coming out of Administration. Funnily enough, I couldn't find any.


Is there any chance both the Hearts and Hibs support are being a tad premature in the reading of the latest event? :hmmm:

Save Hearts in Trouble have been very quiet.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

PTS had a guess of a figure of about £ 100,000. Would there not be an opportunity for a group of upstanding persons with an interest in natural justice to put in a higher offer.

I believe Hibernian Retro are looking to buy a football team! :greengrin

[greenginger]

I believe Hibernian Retro are looking to buy a football team! :greengrin


They would'nt get a football team , just the ashes to scatter.

[Keith_M]

They would'nt get a football team , just the ashes to scatter.


I'd happily pay for the Urn.

[Pete]

Quite a lot of people have said they are annoyed or depressed about all this. You're wasting your energy on what's been nothing more than an interesting side-show.

Deep down they know themselves what they are and the true value of their pots.

I actually feel sorry for them in a way. Those who take their young kids to the games will one day have to answer some pretty awkward questions about the Romanov regime, on an array of subjects.

No thanks.

[Dashing Bob S]

Quite a lot of people have said they are annoyed or depressed about all this. You're wasting your energy on what's been nothing more than an interesting side-show.

Deep down they know themselves what they are and the true value of their pots.

I actually feel sorry for them in a way. Those who take their young kids to the games will one day have to answer some pretty awkward questions about the Romanov regime, on an array of subjects.

No thanks.

Yes, the purist element (of which I'm one) were holding out for totally *ucked.

But I'm more than happy to settle for semi-*ucked and branded as cheats and crooks forever.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

I'm not going to start slashing my wrists unless they manage to avoid relegation!

[Pete]

But I'm more than happy to settle for semi-*ucked and branded as cheats and crooks forever.

That happened the minute they went into administration mate.

[Keith_M]

I'm not going to start slashing my wrists unless they manage to avoid relegation!


Is this one of those Bath Of Beans promises? Will you be doing it in front of the club shop with the press taking photos?

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

No! Outside A&E @ The Infirmary!

[Pretty Boy]

Yes, the purist element (of which I'm one) were holding out for totally *ucked.

But I'm more than happy to settle for semi-*ucked and branded as cheats and crooks forever.

The problem is outiwth us and perhaps Celtic, the 2 tags you mention won't stick.

The propoganda machine has been well oiled when it comes to painting Hearts as some kind of victim.

[greenginger]

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dukio%2Bbankas%2B15min%26client%3Dfire fox-a%26hs%3DK83%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official&rurl=translate.google.co.uk&sl=lt&u=http://www.15min.lt/naujiena/aktualu/nusikaltimaiirnelaimes/planas-neisdege-vladimiro-romanovo-aplinkos-zmonems-nepasiseke-islaikyti-zalgirio-arenos-valdymo-59-379579&usg=ALkJrhis3IHhA9MhqXj7yjsr7FOurzkXvQ

Looks like Vlad's scam with the Zalgirio Arena failed.

Hopefully he's put UBIG's Yam shares somewhere safe.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Quite a lot of people have said they are annoyed or depressed about all this. You're wasting your energy on what's been nothing more than an interesting side-show.

Deep down they know themselves what they are and the true value of their pots.

I actually feel sorry for them in a way. Those who take their young kids to the games will one day have to answer some pretty awkward questions about the Romanov regime, on an array of subjects.

No thanks.

I can see history being rewritten. Namely they were a big club when he took over, and far from buying him success, he held them back with his crazy media whoring. In time, he will be the reason why they didn't manage to get a new stadium, and if it hadn't been for his meddling, they would have spend the millions (that he stole from them) on players that would have made them challengers for big trophies.

They will bemoan the fact that he cost them league titles, and only won them two Scottish Cups. Under no circumstances were they aware of what he was doing to the club, otherwise they would have threatened to kill him like they did the previous owner.

In short, it was his pauchling and meddling that got them in this mess.

[Springbank]

I can see history being rewritten. Namely they were a big club when he took over, and far from buying him success, he held them back with his crazy media whoring. In time, he will be the reason why they didn't manage to get a new stadium, and if it hadn't been for his meddling, they would have spend the millions (that he stole from them) on players that would have made them challengers for big trophies.

They will bemoan the fact that he cost them league titles, and only won them two Scottish Cups. Under no circumstances were they aware of what he was doing to the club, otherwise they would have threatened to kill him like they did the previous owner.

In short, it was his pauchling and meddling that got them in this mess.

Lady Haig begged to differ

[malagahibby]

Save Hearts in Trouble have been very quiet.
Don't forget the 2m owed to HMRC -that will need to be paid


http://m.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/hearts-could-escape-administration-by-christmas-1-3152581

Great reporting here.

Ps uncle joe's comments a cracker

Exceptionally good news says foulkes.

last time he said that is when vlad arrived at tynecastle.

what a clown .

[CropleyWasGod]

Don't forget the 2m owed to HMRC -that will need to be paid

No it won't.

[malagahibby]

No it won't.

so HMRC as a creditor will agree 2p in the pound ?

[Pretty Boy]

so HMRC as a creditor will agree 2p in the pound ?

As far as i'm aware they are not a big enough creditor to make any difference one way or the other.

It's the Liths who matter and they seem willing to play ball.

[CropleyWasGod]

so HMRC as a creditor will agree 2p in the pound ?

They will get nothing in the £. That much has been made clear already.

HMRC have a policy of not voting for CVA's in football situations. However, their vote will be irrelevant in this case as UBIG and UKIO would be able to vote it through.

[StevieC]

so HMRC as a creditor will agree 2p in the pound ?

HMRC, as an unsecured creditor, will get the same as every other unsecured creditor.

[Jonnyboy]

I confess I've not been following this thread religiously so forgive me if this question has already been asked.

On what possible basis can BDO seriously consider that FOH's direct debit scheme forms a sound basis for continued survival?

I know my question is kinda rhetorical but I've asked it anyway :greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

I confess I've not been following this thread religiously so forgive me if this question has already been asked.

On what possible basis can BDO seriously consider that FOH's direct debit scheme forms a sound basis for continued survival?

I know my question is kinda rhetorical but I've asked it anyway :greengrin

In some ways, it's not for them to judge.

It's up to the funders to assess whether the scheme is sufficient to enable them to be repaid.

[The Tubs]

I confess I've not been following this thread religiously so forgive me if this question has already been asked.

On what possible basis can BDO seriously consider that FOH's direct debit scheme forms a sound basis for continued survival?

I know my question is kinda rhetorical but I've asked it anyway :greengrin

That's what I'd like to understand. Perhaps BDO have given UKIO some kind of assurance that, via the direct debit, they'll be able to pay for the only asset there is: the ground the stadium's built on. Would my wild speculation have any grounding in the reality of business deals and solid rationality?

[Jonnyboy]

In some ways, it's not for them to judge.

It's up to the funders to assess whether the scheme is sufficient to enable them to be repaid.

Is it not BDO's duty to ensure ongoing stability as part of the deal?

[CropleyWasGod]

Is it not BDO's duty to ensure ongoing stability as part of the deal?

It's part of their duty to rescue it as a Going Concern. Of course, that means that they have to have one eye on the immediate future of the company, but they can't hold its hand once it's out of admin.


That's what I'd like to understand. Perhaps BDO have given UKIO some kind of assurance that, via the direct debit, they'll be able to pay for the only asset there is: the ground the stadium's built on. Would my wild speculation have any grounding in the reality of business deals and solid rationality?

The direct debits aren't paying for the stadium, though. They are paying for Working Capital this season (and next, IIRC). After that, they are to be used to repay the individuals who buy the shares.

[Aldo]

I have it on good authority that we've had a few 'guests' on here this evening and they are not taking too kindly to some of the comments made by some and in fact some quotes are being copied and pasted onto Brokeback.

So I will apologise now if this offends anyone but

For our guests from Brokeback and Yams alike. Not nice getting conned or for want of a better word robbed of money especially when your a charity or a small local business.

He took your money for shares by deception/fraud yet you are all still to ****ing thick to get it into your stupid little heads to realise what has happened.

You in my eyes will always be cheating, charity robbing ****bags and -Your Battalion (god rest their souls) will be Turning in their graves at the thought of your club robbing a poppy charity. To think it sort of symbolises them.

So get your cut a paste ready and slag away cos if I'm getting to you - Great.

Get it right up you you charity robbing low life's.

You have no shame.

Rant over.

[Jonnyboy]

It's part of their duty to rescue it as a Going Concern. Of course, that means that they have to have one eye on the immediate future of the company, but they can't hold its hand once it's out of admin.

Cheers CWG. Just the thought of them paying such a small price for such major cheating turns my stomach.

Will The Rangers be pissed if Hertz don't face a similar punishment to them or is that just wishful thinking on my part?

[CropleyWasGod]

Cheers CWG. Just the thought of them paying such a small price for such major cheating turns my stomach.

Will The Rangers be pissed if Hertz don't face a similar punishment to them or is that just wishful thinking on my part?

Rangers weren't punished, remember :greengrin

If Hearts exit administration via the CVA, it's a different scenario to Rangers.

However, when has the truth mattered to the OF? Of course they'll be a tad miffed. :cb

[SteveHFC]

I have it on good authority that we've had a few 'guests' on here this evening and they are not taking too kindly to some of the comments made by some and in fact some quotes are being copied and pasted onto Brokeback.

So I will apologise now if this offends anyone but

For our guests from Brokeback and Yams alike. Not nice getting conned or for want of a better word robbed of money especially when your a charity or a small local business.

He took your money for shares by deception/fraud yet you are all still to ****ing thick to get it into your stupid little heads to realise what has happened.

You in my eyes will always be cheating, charity robbing ****bags and -Your Battalion (god rest their souls) will be Turning in their graves at the thought of your club robbing a poppy charity. To think it sort of symbolises them.

So get your cut a paste ready and slag away cos if I'm getting to you - Great.

Get it right up you you charity robbing low life's.

You have no shame.

Rant over.

:faf:

[The Tubs]

The direct debits aren't paying for the stadium, though. They are paying for Working Capital this season (and next, IIRC). After that, they are to be used to repay the individuals who buy the shares.

Thanks Mr God.

How will they pay for the stadium? Do they have a mystery sugardaddy lined up? Maybe Jimmy Saville left something to them in his will.

[monktonharp]

The direct debits aren't paying for the stadium, though. They are paying for Working Capital this season (and next, IIRC). After that, they are to be used to repay the individuals who buy the shares. just a slight "aside" Crops, but what the hell will senior Tax officials be thinking now/ that they or their junior officials agreed fairly long term agreements for repayment of monies well overdue by Hmofc? they almost offered an olive branch, and certainly gave them so much slack it's unbelievable. Now, the organisation that is Hmofc has thumbed it's nose at the public purse, robbed us blind of nigh on 2m or thereabouts. they'll be laughing all the way to the bank,as they collect the DD money.

[Ozyhibby]

Don't forget the 2m owed to HMRC -that will need to be paid

The only debt they will now have is about £0.5m in football debts and about £3m to whoever is funding the CVA.

[CropleyWasGod]

just a slight "aside" Crops, but what the hell will senior Tax officials be thinking now/ that they or their junior officials agreed fairly long term agreements for repayment of monies well overdue by Hmofc? they almost offered an olive branch, and certainly gave them so much slack it's unbelievable. Now, the organisation that is Hmofc has thumbed it's nose at the public purse, robbed us blind of nigh on 2m or thereabouts. they'll be laughing all the way to the bank,as they collect the DD money.

At the time, I thought that HMRC played it correctly, and I probably still do.

Had they gone in with all guns blazing, demanding full payment, then the club would've been wound up immediately and they would've got zip. However, what HMRC did was allow them some leeway, and actually did get a little bit of blood out of the stone.

[kaimendhibs]

I have it on good authority that we've had a few 'guests' on here this evening and they are not taking too kindly to some of the comments made by some and in fact some quotes are being copied and pasted onto Brokeback.

So I will apologise now if this offends anyone but

For our guests from Brokeback and Yams alike. Not nice getting conned or for want of a better word robbed of money especially when your a charity or a small local business.

He took your money for shares by deception/fraud yet you are all still to ****ing thick to get it into your stupid little heads to realise what has happened.

You in my eyes will always be cheating, charity robbing ****bags and -Your Battalion (god rest their souls) will be Turning in their graves at the thought of your club robbing a poppy charity. To think it sort of symbolises them.

So get your cut a paste ready and slag away cos if I'm getting to you - Great.

Get it right up you you charity robbing low life's.

You have no shame.

Rant over.

Just made the mistake of taking a look over there, only confirmed what I already knew. They are shameless vermin, true **** of the earth. Nothing us confirmed that they will get CVA, really can't wait till they get smashed in the pus by a huge dose if realism. Slime


Sent from my iphone

[monktonharp]

At the time, I thought that HMRC played it correctly, and I probably still do.

Had they gone in with all guns blazing, demanding full payment, then the club would've been wound up immediately and they would've got zip. However, what HMRC did was allow them some leeway, and actually did get a little bit of blood out of the stone.WE all now wish that blood had been drained, at the point of contact!:greengrin

[Zazu62]

Why are they so confident about getting a cva agreed?

[basehibby]

Why are they so confident about getting a cva agreed?

Yeah - I was wondering that too! It seems to me that they're still pining their hopes on a long shot - that the Liths will accept a considerably smaller settlement for the CVA than they could get for the land sale (don't know the details but I'm gathering that the CVA is significantly less than half of the saleable value of the land?!?).

Of course there will be costs associated with the land sale such as that of demolishing the asbestos-ridden monstrosity that is Tynie, agent & management fees, and a necessary time delay before the asset could be realised. But my mental arithmetic STILL sees a considerable difference between the sums which have been banded about by FOH and the realisable value of the PBS which would surely force the admins to see to their 1st duty towards their creditors by knocking back the CVA.

There might be more to it that I'm not comprehending but it seems to me that their chances can only be 50/50 at best even if the Liths have agreed to consider a CVA as reports suggest.

[Eyrie]

Can someone clarify this for me?

The biddies are putting the cash up front to acquire the PBS and the poppy stealers, then the fannies are meant to pay them back using the Save Hearts In Trouble DD scheme. But what happens when the fannies cancel the DDs because they realise they're just paying some millionaire from their hardly earned giros?

The biddies will still have to be repaid, so will money be diverted from paying wages and bills for the repayments? Or will the club's operating budget be unaffected by the cancellations and the biddies are left owning the poppy stealers?

[rcarter1]

Assuming that Hearts slide out of this, and HMRC get didly, they will have robbed about 3.4 pence of taxes from each man, woman and child in the United Kingdom. :furious:

[CropleyWasGod]

Can someone clarify this for me?

The biddies are putting the cash up front to acquire the PBS and the poppy stealers, then the fannies are meant to pay them back using the Save Hearts In Trouble DD scheme. But what happens when the fannies cancel the DDs because they realise they're just paying some millionaire from their hardly earned giros?

The biddies will still have to be repaid, so will money be diverted from paying wages and bills for the repayments? Or will the club's operating budget be unaffected by the cancellations and the biddies are left owning the poppy stealers?

The Biddies will have robust agreements in place to ensure that they get their cash. :agree:

[Eyrie]

The Biddies will have robust agreements in place to ensure that they get their cash. :agree:
Thanks - that means there is still some hope of them lingering in the lower leagues for years.

Or even better, a second admin event :thumbsup:

[#FromTheCapital]

Why are they so confident about getting a cva agreed?

Because the most important (only secured) creditor has accepted the offer. All that remains now is for the UBIG admins to play ball and their shares to be unfrozen before they're home and dry.

[basehibby]

Assuming that Hearts slide out of this, and HMRC get didly, they will have robbed about 3.4 pence of taxes from each man, woman and child in the United Kingdom. :furious:

Somewhat dwarfed by the likes of Fred the Shred's £10K per man/woman/child hit - but all the same - :grr::grr::fuming::brickwall:furious:

....and by the way - They already HAVE robbed us cos HMRC will get nowt regardless - the poppy stealing bassas!

[CropleyWasGod]

Assuming that Hearts slide out of this, and HMRC get didly, they will have robbed about 3.4 pence of taxes from each man, woman and child in the United Kingdom. :furious:

There is no chance of HMRC getting anything in this process, whether Hearts "slide out" or not.

[rcarter1]

There is no chance of HMRC getting anything in this process, whether Hearts "slide out" or not.

Fair enough, its just Id feel better about my 3.4 pence if they didnt slide out..

[Zazu62]

Something will go wrong for them somewhere just a feeling. How can they just get the shares unfrozen?

[Leithenhibby]

Something will go wrong for them somewhere just a feeling. How can they just get the shares unfrozen?


Has that happened yet, no.

Do they (HMFC) have the money for the shares?
Will UBIG hold them to ransom over the shares?

More importantly. Do UBIG have the shares. Maybe, just maybe, the mad man has them tucked away safe... :na na:

[Moon unit]

Felt for ages that these slime balls will squirm out of all this with not 1 iota of guilt or shame !
Like most Sociopaths and psychopaths they will deny any wrong doing, blame everyone else and in true Jambo style be bullish, pompous and full of their own **** ... Remember they don't do Dignity!

[#FromTheCapital]

Something will go wrong for them somewhere just a feeling. How can they just get the shares unfrozen?

I hope you're right but I just can't see it. If UBIG's admins accept the CVA then I don't know why the government would keep the shares frozen? IIRC The whole reason they were frozen in the first place was so that vlad couldn't gain anything more from UBIG's assets while he was under investigation. With him out the picture for now and Lithuanian administrators controlling UBIG then surely they will defrost the hearts shares.

[Miguel]

Whatever happens, it doesn't look good for them:
At the end of this season, they will be relegated.
They won't come straight back up.
They have no access to anything other than survival funding.
The main stand is a wreck.
Their reputation has been ruined.

I was talking about the cup final to someone the other day for the first time in ages and suddenly realised that it doesn't hurt anymore. The future is green!

[Matty_Jack04]

Yeah - I was wondering that too! It seems to me that they're still pining their hopes on a long shot - that the Liths will accept a considerably smaller settlement for the CVA than they could get for the land sale (don't know the details but I'm gathering that the CVA is significantly less than half of the saleable value of the land?!?).

Of course there will be costs associated with the land sale such as that of demolishing the asbestos-ridden monstrosity that is Tynie, agent & management fees, and a necessary time delay before the asset could be realised. But my mental arithmetic STILL sees a considerable difference between the sums which have been banded about by FOH and the realisable value of the PBS which would surely force the admins to see to their 1st duty towards their creditors by knocking back the CVA.

There might be more to it that I'm not comprehending but it seems to me that their chances can only be 50/50 at best even if the Liths have agreed to consider a CVA as reports suggest.
The lands valued at £5m that's the security ukios has with the debt they are due, doesn't mean any developer will pay £5m though with the cost likely to be high after purchase of the land before any build can commence any developer interested will be after lowest price possible in turn making the save our hearts in trouble bid more attractive than it should be

[Peevemor]

The lands valued at £5m that's the security ukios has with the debt they are due, doesn't mean any developer will pay £5m though with the cost likely to be high after purchase of the land before any build can commence any developer interested will be after lowest price possible in turn making the save our hearts in trouble bid more attractive than it should be

Tynie would sell no problem for £5m. The current valuation is realtively low because it takes into account all factors (ie. demolition costs, physical restricitons of the site, economic climate, etc). There are people/companies who will make fortunes out of the global financial crisis by being able to invest (not just in land) while prices are rock bottom.

One of my bosses, a property developer, is currently building up a huge 'bank' of land both for the reason above but also to reduce his tax bill - he's far from being the only one.

[hibbymick]

Tynie would sell no problem for £5m. The current valuation is realtively low because it takes into account all factors (ie. demolition costs, physical restricitons of the site, economic climate, etc). There are people/companies who will make fortunes out of the global financial crisis by being able to invest (not just in land) while prices are rock bottom.

One of my bosses, a property developer, is currently building up a huge 'bank' of land both for the reason above but also to reduce his tax bill - he's far from being the only one.

Let's not forget the price of corrugated scrap .

[Pete]

Tynie would sell no problem for £5m. The current valuation is realtively low because it takes into account all factors (ie. demolition costs, physical restricitons of the site, economic climate, etc). There are people/companies who will make fortunes out of the global financial crisis by being able to invest (not just in land) while prices are rock bottom.

One of my bosses, a property developer, is currently building up a huge 'bank' of land both for the reason above but also to reduce his tax bill - he's far from being the only one.

If I were a developer I wouldn't go near tynecastle or any football ground in these circumstances. To buy a club's spiritual home and demolish it leaving them high and dry is asking for trouble no matter who or where you are. When you add social media and nutters that attach themselves to clubs into the mix other investment opportunities seem a lot more attractive.

Obviously not everyone would be bothered by such factors but a lot of people would be, which might in turn effect the price it achieves.

[Geo_1875]

Companies from outside Edinburgh possibly outside Scotland would bite your hands off for a site within a mile of the city centre. And they won't give a **** what Baldrick or View from the shed post in the Evening News website. However, I doubt they'll get a chance to put a bid in.

[Weststandwanab]

Tynie would sell no problem for £5m. The current valuation is realtively low because it takes into account all factors (ie. demolition costs, physical restricitons of the site, economic climate, etc). There are people/companies who will make fortunes out of the global financial crisis by being able to invest (not just in land) while prices are rock bottom.

One of my bosses, a property developer, is currently building up a huge 'bank' of land both for the reason above but also to reduce his tax bill - he's far from being the only one.
How does building up a land bank reduce a tax bill ?

[Onceinawhile]

How does building up a land bank reduce a tax bill ?

It doesn't. Certainly not in the uk. It's capital expenditure, so costs can only be offset on the sale of the same capital asset.

[worcesterhibby]

It doesn't. Certainly not in the uk. It's capital expenditure, so costs can only be offset on the sale of the same capital asset.

Company is set to make 10 million profit…buys land worth 8 million…profit is reduced to 2 million…so corporation tax would be reduced…surely ?

[CropleyWasGod]

Company is set to make 10 million profit…buys land worth 8 million…profit is reduced to 2 million…so corporation tax would be reduced…surely ?

Profit is still £10m. The Land is show in the accounts as stock or Fixed Assets, and can't be set off against any profit until it is sold.

[greenginger]

Company is set to make 10 million profit…buys land worth 8 million…profit is reduced to 2 million…so corporation tax would be reduced…surely ?

Company buys land worth £ 8 million, then writes down value to £ 2 million because of proposal to List a rotting, dangerous structure on the site. :greengrin

Profits reduced by £ 6 million for a few years anyway.

[TRC]

surely some criminal dealings have happened while Romanov was in charge. if he does go on trail this will come out in the wash surely?

[greenginger]

Has that happened yet, no.

Do they (HMFC) have the money for the shares?
Will UBIG hold them to ransom over the shares?

More importantly. Do UBIG have the shares. Maybe, just maybe, the mad man has them tucked away safe... :na na:


Thinking back to last March, when Vlad and the gang all resigned from the UBIG Board, Fedatovas stated that Vlad still controlled the football club.

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dukio%2Bbankas%2B15min%26client%3Dfire fox-a%26hs%3DXdc%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official&rurl=translate.google.co.uk&sl=lt&u=http://www.15min.lt/naujiena/sportas/futbolas/edinburgo-hearts-neigia-kad-vladimiras-romanovas-pasitrauke-is-klubo-valdytoju-24-313143&usg=ALkJrhjBjIoDpDEk6XJnQ6yveJCL4qxW0g

Is there a chance the shares in the club were spirited away. I don't think anyone will know until the Admin. arrives and opens the books.

[CropleyWasGod]

Thinking back to last March, when Vlad and the gang all resigned all resigned from the UBIG Board, Fedatovas stated that Vlad still controlled the football club.

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dukio%2Bbankas%2B15min%26client%3Dfire fox-a%26hs%3DXdc%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official&rurl=translate.google.co.uk&sl=lt&u=http://www.15min.lt/naujiena/sportas/futbolas/edinburgo-hearts-neigia-kad-vladimiras-romanovas-pasitrauke-is-klubo-valdytoju-24-313143&usg=ALkJrhjBjIoDpDEk6XJnQ6yveJCL4qxW0g

Is there a chance the shares in the club were spirited away. I don't think anyone will know until the Admin. arrives and opens the books.

It's a fair question.

Going on what is in the public domain, which is all we (and BDO) can do at the moment, those shares are owned by UBIG. However, shares can be sold or transferred, and often that isn't properly recorded at Companies House, either innocently or otherwise.

As ever, it's part of the UBIG admin's job to ascertain what assets the company has. Like you say, he doesn't know what they are until he opens the books.

[lucky]

The sting in the tail for the puddle drinkers could be the main stand. Its now on the agenda to become a listed building, so any renovation costs are going to rocket. They may survive but they will be skint for years.

[Fat Penlon]

The Biddies will have robust agreements in place to ensure that they get their cash. :agree:


As robust as the legally binding £6.8m security over tynecastle that a national bank in Lithuania had which they will get next to nothing back on?

This and the Sevco saga have proved there is no such thing as a robust agreement that will ensure people get their money back!

[CropleyWasGod]

As robust as the legally binding £6.8m security over tynecastle that a national bank in Lithuania had which they will get next to nothing back on?

This and the Sevco saga have proved there is no such thing as a robust agreement that will ensure people get their money back!

It's difficult to know the exact figures, but it sounds like UKIO will get most of that £6.8m back.

The Biddies, though, will either have ownership of Tynie, or security over it.....an asset worth £x million, with the Fannies due to pay back much less.

[Leithenhibby]

Thinking back to last March, when Vlad and the gang all resigned from the UBIG Board, Fedatovas stated that Vlad still controlled the football club.

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dukio%2Bbankas%2B15min%26client%3Dfire fox-a%26hs%3DXdc%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official&rurl=translate.google.co.uk&sl=lt&u=http://www.15min.lt/naujiena/sportas/futbolas/edinburgo-hearts-neigia-kad-vladimiras-romanovas-pasitrauke-is-klubo-valdytoju-24-313143&usg=ALkJrhjBjIoDpDEk6XJnQ6yveJCL4qxW0g

Is there a chance the shares in the club were spirited away. I don't think anyone will know until the Admin. arrives and opens the books.


It's a fair question.

Going on what is in the public domain, which is all we (and BDO) can do at the moment, those shares are owned by UBIG. However, shares can be sold or transferred, and often that isn't properly recorded at Companies House, either innocently or otherwise.

As ever, it's part of the UBIG admin's job to ascertain what assets the company has. Like you say, he doesn't know what they are until he opens the books.


So, it's possible that the mad man (maybe not so mad), is two or three steps ahead of the game!.. :pray::pray:

I'd laugh my socks off :wink:

[lapsedhibee]

If I were a developer I wouldn't go near tynecastle or any football ground in these circumstances. To buy a club's spiritual home and demolish it leaving them high and dry is asking for trouble no matter who or where you are. When you add social media and nutters that attach themselves to clubs into the mix other investment opportunities seem a lot more attractive.

Obviously not everyone would be bothered by such factors but a lot of people would be, which might in turn effect the price it achieves.

Only if you believe that there are 400,000 people attached to The Famous. Otherwise only a Tynie handful care two hoots, and nowhere near enough to materially affect the price of eventual housing there.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Would I be right in saying the worst case scenario for us is that they get out of admin before the January transfer window, and then someone gives them the money to buy free agents in February?

[greenginger]

Only if you believe that there are 400,000 people attached to The Famous. Otherwise only a Tynie handful care two hoots, and nowhere near enough to materially affect the price of eventual housing there.

If Ukio took possession of the PBS the first thing would be to bring in a demolition contractor to take down, cut up and remove all the metal from the stands ( probably done for next to no cost with the value of the scrap ).

Marketing would be of a cleared development site and any flak would be at the previous club owners and the Lithuanian Admin.

A developer would then probably get credit for bringing jobs and housing to Gorgie rather than criticism.

[dangermouse]

It's difficult to know the exact figures, but it sounds like UKIO will get most of that £6.8m back.

The Biddies, though, will either have ownership of Tynie, or security over it.....an asset worth £x million, with the Fannies due to pay back much less.

How come? I thought the Save Hearts In Trouble bid was for around £3M of which a chunk of that would be due to BDO. That's less than half what UKIO have as security.

[Pretty Boy]

If a CVA of a penny in the pound is accepted would that mean Big Hearts would get £360 of the £36000 owed. Obviously once the Liths are paid they will get nothing but theoretically speaking?

Bear in mind they recently won an award for their work in the community.

****ing disgusting and absolutely nothing for those ***** to gloat about, they should be ashamed.

[Aldo]

If a CVA of a penny in the pound is accepted would that mean Big Hearts would get £360 of the £36000 owed. Obviously once the Liths are paid they will get nothing but theoretically speaking? Bear in mind they recently won an award for their work in the community. ****ing disgusting and absolutely nothing for those ***** to gloat about, they should be ashamed.

PB but they are not ashamed in the slightest. They are all happy to get away with it and F the rest.

Utter **** bags as well as charity robbers. Just shows you the type of people who follow that mob.

[Liberal Hibby]

It's a fair question.

Going on what is in the public domain, which is all we (and BDO) can do at the moment, those shares are owned by UBIG. However, shares can be sold or transferred, and often that isn't properly recorded at Companies House, either innocently or otherwise.

As ever, it's part of the UBIG admin's job to ascertain what assets the company has. Like you say, he doesn't know what they are until he opens the books.

Wht's the effect of the 'sale' of 10% of the shares to the fans? Does it dilute UKIO/UBIGs holding (and if so would it take it to less than 75%) or as it was fraud will it be discounted as simply a fan donation?

[CropleyWasGod]

How come? I thought the Save Hearts In Trouble bid was for around £3M of which a chunk of that would be due to BDO. That's less than half what UKIO have as security.

Like I say, nobody knows the exact figures.


If a CVA of a penny in the pound is accepted would that mean Big Hearts would get £360 of the £36000 owed. Obviously once the Liths are paid they will get nothing but theoretically speaking?

Bear in mind they recently won an award for their work in the community.

****ing disgusting and absolutely nothing for those ***** to gloat about, they should be ashamed.

There will be no dividend for unsecured creditors.


Wht's the effect of the 'sale' of 10% of the shares to the fans? Does it dilute UKIO/UBIGs holding (and if so would it take it to less than 75%) or as it was fraud will it be discounted as simply a fan donation?

In theory, it was a dilution of the existing holdings.

In practice, though.... it wasn't a share issue at all. IIRC, it has been treated (by BDO) as a reduction in the money due to UBIG.

[Ozyhibby]

Any news on Ubig admin being appointed?

[TrinityHibs]

If I were a developer I wouldn't go near tynecastle or any football ground in these circumstances. To buy a club's spiritual home and demolish it leaving them high and dry is asking for trouble no matter who or where you are. When you add social media and nutters that attach themselves to clubs into the mix other investment opportunities seem a lot more attractive.

Obviously not everyone would be bothered by such factors but a lot of people would be, which might in turn effect the price it achieves.

Think it happened with Clydebank.

[Keith_M]

It's difficult to know the exact figures, but it sounds like UKIO will get most of that £6.8m back.

The Biddies, though, will either have ownership of Tynie, or security over it.....an asset worth £x million, with the Fannies due to pay back much less.


What do you base that on?

The figures attributed so far to FOH's actual offer to UKIO have been in the region of 2M. From that, BDO have to be paid first. It's a very big leap from under 2M to 6.8M.

[CropleyWasGod]

What do you base that on?

The figures attributed so far to FOH's actual offer to UKIO have been in the region of 2M. From that, BDO have to be paid first. It's a very big leap from under 2M to 6.8M.

Like I say, no-one outside of FOH, BDO and UKIO knows the actual amounts. It's all been speculation otherwise.

"Most of " £6.8m, though, is anything over £3.4m. :greengrin I think UKIO would be daft to accept anything less than that.