Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

[Dr Jimmy]

Agreed, up to a point. However, if they'd gone into administration in February, they would have known about the 18 point penalty at that point. That would have given them time to actually play their way out of relegation.

Apologies if this has been stated before, but if FOH or any other bidder does not meet the Lith valuation and they then go into liquidation. Can the Liths hold on to the stadium etc until the land price rises or do liquidators tend to sell for the best they can get asap?

[Mr White]

Angelo massones bid can't be far off the mark then if the liths would accept 5m?

[JeMeSouviens]

The frozen UBIG shares still an issue too.

I doubt £5million would be acceptable giving that a valuation on the land will likely be more than that, significantly more. When the Lith administrator stated they want the best for their creditors, this £5million valuation doesn't fit their agenda.

The Evening News spin is biased to FoH

Tiny was valued (valuation commissioned by FoH and revealed on Radio Scotland by Blobbo) at £5.6M in use as a stadium, £6M as a development site. *If* the article has any truth then Valnetas (are they a BDO company btw, istr at least a link to BDO?) are willing to take £5M to wash their hands of it.

But ... there's still the frozen share situation to resolve.

But ... they still have to get a CVA vote through which means satisfying UBIG's liquidator when they appear on the scene. If they demand, say 5p/£, then that could be another £1M or so for the muppets to find.

[CropleyWasGod]

Apologies if this has been stated before, but if FOH or any other bidder does not meet the Lith valuation and they then go into liquidation. Can the Liths hold on to the stadium etc until the land price rises or do liquidators tend to sell for the best they can get asap?

It's not the Liths to sell. It's still the property of Hearts and, if they go into liquidation, the liquidator takes possession of it. The net proceeds of any sale will go to UKIO's administrators, after admin and liquidation fees.

They could, I suppose, exercise their rights under their security and take possession of it, although I don't know why they would. Given that they are charged (I'm assuming, since I don't know enough about Lith law) with recouping as much cash as possible for their creditors, they would also want to sell it ASAP.

[Deansy]

I would agree. However, it's the EEN, so I have my doubts about how genuine that bit is.

Yeah, there's no name to who actually wrote this 'article' -could be 'All-is !!

[YehButNoBut]

So reading between the lines nobody has come up with the cash to buy Hearts, not looking good for them is it. :lolyam:

And all the time BDO's fee get's bigger & bigger, pleasing.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BRDpeRrCIAAmIP0.jpg:large

[CropleyWasGod]

So reading between the lines nobody has come up with the cash to buy Hearts, not looking good for them is it. :lolyam:

And all the time BDO's fee get's bigger & bigger, pleasing.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BRDpeRrCIAAmIP0.jpg:large

"lack of funding hampers"??

That's the way to go. Fill up some hampers with cakes, and sell 'em.

[joe breezy]

Surely not long to go now



http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/hearts-administration-funding-crisis-halting-sale-1-3033375

HEARTS administrator Bryan Jackson admits funding the club remains a huge problem for any prospective buyer despite more than 10,500 season tickets being sold.

Money from the first 7000 season ticket sales was used as funding by the previous board before Hearts entered administration on June 19. Jackson’s company, BDO, is still attempting to negotiate the sale of the club as a going concern.

Foundation of Hearts, the fans’ umbrella group, remain the only credible bidder for control so far, but its first offer has been rejected by Valnetas UAB – the administrators for Hearts’ biggest creditor, Ukio Bankas. Ukio is owed £15million of the club’s total £28.5m debt and have Tynecastle Stadium as security.

The Evening News can confirm that Angelo Massone has still to submit proof of funding for his £4m offer. The Italian has been given until Friday to complete due diligence but has done little investigating into the club’s finances. After Friday, BDO will demand he names the investors behind his bid or risk being discounted from the process. Bob Jamieson’s HMFC Limited has already been dismissed by Valnetas. Meetings are taking place between BDO and the Foundation as they prepare a second bid. Officials at Valnetas have stated privately that they would be willing to do a deal for around £5m but the Foundation’s cash offer was some way short of that figure. FoH have a separate £3.75m earmarked from fans’ pledges to fund Hearts over the next three years, which Jackson believes is crucial for any party gaining control. A total of £1.27m of income has been generated by Hearts since June, including more than £800,000 from 3500 season ticket sales during that period. Cash from the previous 7000 sales is already gone.

Jackson is eager that any takeover is done with a long-term plan in mind due to the significant shortfall in funding which still exists. “We have met with the Foundation of Hearts and they are still working on their bid. We are keeping an ongoing dialogue with them,” he said.

“The season ticket money has caused such a massive problem for all of us. If we had been appointed administrators and got the money from 7000 season tickets, then potentially that would take care of the funding gap.

“You might then have found that the Foundation could have got their bid up to the right purchase price because they wouldn’t have been worried about the huge hole in funding during the season. One of the biggest problems for them is not just buying the club but funding it. That’s due to this big hole.”

Supporters’ rallying has provided Hearts with huge amounts of funding in recent months but Jackson admits they will still have a massive part to play if the club is to stay alive.

“I can’t speak for the fans but it must be getting close to that well running dry,” he said. “Then again, this is an opportunity to save their club. It’s not just to save the club for the next five or ten years, you’re talking about saving it for the next 100 years. You just hope that there is still something in the bottle.”

Creditors have been called to a meeting with BDO on Monday and Jackson is still hopeful that a Creditors Voluntary Agreement can be reached in tandem with a new buyer to enable the club to exit administration

[Pedantic_Hibee]

That Bryan Jackson looks like something out of Beetlejuice.

I must consult google images at once....

HIYUH!!!!!!!!


http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/webimage/1.3022784.1375267462!/image/3823376775.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_595/3823376775.jpghttps://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT524BvHuFr50d-mXA8X2oXtTVyGv19U0coz2gqUHqk3f3ldCm0hg

[Aldo]

F*** the c***s! :agree:

This

Banderson twittered this yesterday bout the 10.5 K season tickets sold.

I said they only had money from 3.5 has Vlad had pockled the lot and it was in a suitcase somewhere with Vlad.

Surprise surprise no response/reply

[Treadstone]

Banderson twittered this yesterday bout the 10.5 K season tickets sold.

I said they only had money from 3.5 has Vlad had pockled the lot and it was in a suitcase somewhere with Vlad.

Surprise surprise no response/reply

Response is usually a 'blocking'.

[Aldo]

Response is usually a 'blocking'.

He has responded before. Prob ignoring me cos I'm right FACT!

That's it he prefers fiction!! Got it now.

[brog]

This is the important bit for me:-

“The season ticket money has caused such a massive problem for all of us. If we had been appointed administrators and got the money from 7000 season tickets, then potentially that would take care of the funding gap."

In other words, delaying the administration is what is killing the chances of a deal. Had they gone into administration six months ago, they might have had a better chance of a CVA.

Absolutely!! what goes around etc! Their desperation to avoid relegation last season has come back & bit them on the bum!! I notice again though they concentrate on the lost £1.4mm of season ticket sales but never a mention of the fraudulently obtained £1mm share issue!

[Sanger]

Tiny was valued (valuation commissioned by FoH and revealed on Radio Scotland by Blobbo) at £5.6M in use as a stadium, £6M as a development site. *If* the article has any truth then Valnetas (are they a BDO company btw, istr at least a link to BDO?) are willing to take £5M to wash their hands of it.

But ... there's still the frozen share situation to resolve.

But ... they still have to get a CVA vote through which means satisfying UBIG's liquidator when they appear on the scene. If they demand, say 5p/£, then that could be another £1M or so for the muppets to find.

Court can lift the freeze on shares if admins ask and put money in trust and Romanaov crime sorted out. But much easier if put in liquidation. FOH obvously well short of £6 million valuation of £5 compromise if that figure is correct. I have £10 million estimate from the proptery team at my work with no bias.

[PatHead]

Court can lift the freeze on shares if admins ask and put money in trust and Romanaov crime sorted out. But much easier if put in liquidation. FOH obvously well short of £6 million valuation of £5 compromise if that figure is correct. I have £10 million estimate from the proptery team at my work with no bias.

Is that £10m with housing planning or as a bus depot/shelter

[Dashing Bob S]

Liquidation probably isn't the best way backwards for Hearts, but it's the only way.

[OrdHibby]

Absolutely!! what goes around etc! Their desperation to avoid relegation last season has come back & bit them on the bum!! I notice again though they concentrate on the lost £1.4mm of season ticket sales but never a mention of the fraudulently obtained £1mm share issue!

For such an intellectual poster your out by miles. Its millions not millimetres :greengrin £1.4M and £1M .

[Sanger]

Is that £10m with housing planning or as a bus depot/shelter

part of the money is a fee is to take away the smell!

[The Falcon]

part of the money is a fee is to take away the smell!

With the old school up for sale and the distillery looking for a move, there is potential to open up quite a large development on the whole site.

[Scònaldò]

Can someone please tell me what the purpose of the meeting on monday is for?

I thank you.

[Kato]

Can someone please tell me what the purpose of the meeting on monday is for?

I thank you.

All existing creditors can have a go at kicking David Southern in the nuts.

[degenerated]

Court can lift the freeze on shares if admins ask and put money in trust and Romanaov crime sorted out. But much easier if put in liquidation. FOH obvously well short of £6 million valuation of £5 compromise if that figure is correct. I have £10 million estimate from the proptery team at my work with no bias.

10 million would be directionally accurate for that piece of land, with planning consent.
The 5 million bandied about by FOH is nothing more than wishful thinking, much like the not fit for housing nonsense they spout.
If put on the market there would be significant interest from most of the big hitters in house building.

[CropleyWasGod]

Can someone please tell me what the purpose of the meeting on monday is for?

I thank you.

10813

[Scònaldò]

10813

Thanks

Do you, or anyone else have an idea as to a likely outcome of this meeting?

[CropleyWasGod]

Thanks

Do you, or anyone else have an idea as to a likely outcome of this meeting?

I don't think there will be anything mind-blowing, TBH. It's a procedural thing; from memory, it has to be held within 8 weeks of the date of administration.

There may be a few irate shareholders shouting their piece, or there may be nobody there. The important action, as ever, is taking place in Lithuania.

[greenginger]

10813



Has the administrator's proposals been posted anywhere ( kickback ? )

What are they likely to be ? eh, can I have my fees please. :greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

Has the administrator's proposals been posted anywhere ( kickback ? )

What are they likely to be ? eh, can I have my fees please. :greengrin

It was in that document that was published last week.

Here is the specific part:- Para 14.

10814

And Kickback, like everybody else, get their stuff from us. You should know that by now. :agree:

[Tyler Durden]

David Southern on STV news, "we are in a very sensitive place at the moment but it is something that we believe is within our control and within the control of the supporters....to fix".

More lies and/or ignorance from this muppet but the media continue to be happy to put a mic in front of him. I look forward to him joining the dole queue in the not too distant future.

[brog]

For such an intellectual poster your out by miles. Its millions not millimetres :greengrin £1.4M and £1M .

Ah but you see Im an Old F--t so I still remember the convention when M was 1,000 hence MM for a million. Anyway, they're inching, or millimetring towards oblivion! :wink:

[Kato]

David Southern on STV news, "we are in a very sensitive place at the moment but it is something that we believe is within our control and within the control of the supporters....to fix".

More lies and/or ignorance from this muppet but the media continue to be happy to put a mic in front of him. I look forward to him joining the dole queue in the not too distant future.

The fact that he is saying "we believe [it] is within our control and within the control of the supporters" means "it" isn't and the supporters don't have a chance. He's lied to the Jambos and the press more than once and those flumps just swallow it with zero complaint or inquiry every time. Clowns.

[lapsedhibee]

Ah but you see Im an Old F--t so I still remember the convention when M was 1,000 hence MM for a million. Anyway, they're inching, or millimetring towards oblivion! :wink:

Yes yes but that went out in about MCMLXV, daddyo.

[steakbake]

I see kickback is kicking around the pacific shelf 585 allegations about Celtic being a newco since 1994...

They might very well be a newco but that was then and this is now...

Must have borrowed it from some of the straw clutchers on followfollow...

[Treadstone]

The fact that he is saying "we believe [it] is within our control and within the control of the supporters" means "it" isn't and the supporters don't have a chance. He's lied to the Jambos and the press more than once and those flumps just swallow it with zero complaint or inquiry every time. Clowns.

13th June , Southern was asked if wages would be paid for that month, his reply "A day is a long time in football"
The following Monday the yams signalled their intention to go into administration.

A lying roaster of the highest order.

[bingo70]

I see kickback is kicking around the pacific shelf 585 allegations about Celtic being a newco since 1994...

They might very well be a newco but that was then and this is now...

Must have borrowed it from some of the straw clutchers on followfollow...

Very nice of them to stick up for Rangers like that but i don't think it'll have any relevance to Hearts situation.

[steakbake]

Very nice of them to stick up for Rangers like that but i don't think it'll have any relevance to Hearts situation.

Indeed not - Celtic weren't put into liquidation at the time so it bears no real comparison unless you're being desperate.

[Dashing Bob S]

"Yes we're all Newco's, all in debt, one's as bad as the other, Scottish football's a mess anyway, besides, they need us..."

Well, Senior Yambolino's, your superiour arguments have convinced us all. We hereby let you off, absolving you of any consequences and tossing a war chest stuffed with squillions your way, just to compensate for any emotional trauma we may have caused. We're sorry! Please talk to us again!

Yours sincerely,

Her Majesty's Inland Revenue Service
A list of unpaid creditors from Liverpool to Stenhousemuir and Mussy Ath
Heriot Watt Univiersity
Edinburgh Council tax payers
Lithuanian taxpayers and government
Clubs in Scotland you cheated through financial doping
Others too numerous to mention

[bingo70]

Indeed not - Celtic weren't put into liquidation at the time so it bears no real comparison unless you're being desperate.

Celtic never lost there stadium, had to sit out a season, start again with a new name or start again in a new town.

If Hearts are liquidated then all of those things are likely to happen so it won't even be a "newco" like rangers, it'll be a club dying.

[Kato]

I see kickback is kicking around the pacific shelf 585 allegations about Celtic being a newco since 1994...

They might very well be a newco but that was then and this is now...

Must have borrowed it from some of the straw clutchers on followfollow...

Ah, well. That's that then. Hearts are saved. :rolleyes:

[Dunderhall]

The fact that he is saying "we believe [it] is within our control and within the control of the supporters" means "it" isn't and the supporters don't have a chance. He's lied to the Jambos and the press more than once and those flumps just swallow it with zero complaint or inquiry every time. Clowns.Can't believe he hasn't had more stick from them.Then again don't mention the £34K due to the big hearts community trust, just repeat the poppy fund got their money (from a 3rd party) what's the problem.

[steakbake]

Ah, well. That's that then. Hearts are saved. :rolleyes:

Yep, cancel the bake sale and home brew...

[YehButNoBut]

Ah, well. That's that then. Hearts are saved. :rolleyes:


Yep, cancel the bake sale and home brew...

Ach well I will take the champers out the ice bucket and get back under their shadow. :yw:

[Just Alf]

Indeed not - Celtic weren't put into liquidation at the time so it bears no real comparison unless you're being desperate.

On phone so can't see all the pages... But are we saying that the Yams are now saying that the 'tic history is broken?

If that's true the surely the BDO documentation from last week that shows thw Yams began in 1905 means their 1885 stuff is crap?

[sidneyhibbie]

Sidney is back after my wel earned break at Port Seaton holiday park i had a caravan nest to the horses in the field and yes i had a we swim in the sea but i missed my pen and loads of letters for me when i got back.
No had time to keep up but i am on call to get stuck in again if required:hnet::not worth

seen the result but i think we will come good :flag:

[Sergey]

Sidney is back after my wel earned break at Port Seaton holiday park

Moi thinks that Sidney will soon be in Kaunas :wink:

:bye:

[Jack Hackett]

Moi thinks that Sidney will soon be in Kaunas :wink:

:bye:

Can Sidney afford another holiday after pushing the submarine out on one in Port Seton?

[Kato]

Sidney is back after my wel earned break at Port Seaton holiday park i had a caravan nest to the horses in the field and yes i had a we swim in the sea but i missed my pen and loads of letters for me when i got back.
No had time to keep up but i am on call to get stuck in again if required:hnet::not worth

seen the result but i think we will come good :flag:


Baking in those gas bottle ovens must be tricky.

[Dunderhall]

Sidney is back after my wel earned break at Port Seaton holiday park i had a caravan nest to the horses in the field and yes i had a we swim in the sea but i missed my pen and loads of letters for me when i got backNice of Bob Jamieson to open up his home and invite you back to the nest.

[Glory Lurker]

Whoa, whoa, whoa, boys! Have I missed something? Are you really accusing Sidney of being an undercover yam? Hibernian's great man of letters? I've not felt my belief system shaken like this since Nessie told me there's no Santa.

[Kato]

Whoa, whoa, whoa, boys! Have I missed something? Are you really accusing Sidney of being an undercover yam? Hibernian's great man of letters? I've not felt my belief system shaken like this since Nessie told me there's no Santa.


Stank from the off imho.

[Hank Schrader]

Stank from the off imho.

Tiresome, repetitive and unfunny as well.

[The Green Goblin]

Stank from the off imho.

Maybe more of a whiff of antique Brut aftershave. :greengrin All very harmless nonsense if he is and no offence given that I can recall. Agree that a change of script might help his case...

[Pedantic_Hibee]

More to the point, has Sidney ever had a reply to any of his letters?

http://www.weddingchaos.co.uk/images-content/objects/screwed-up-paper.jpg

[monktonharp]

http://www.15min.lt/naujiena/aktualu/nusikaltimaiirnelaimes/turto-issvaistymu-itariamas-vladimiras-romanovas-atskleide-kada-zada-grizti-i-lietuva-59-359548


Vlad says he is going back to Lithuania at the end of the month.

Might be good news if he fights his corner and all the dirty washing gets an airing. is that Ingin' Joanny, at the back o' Vlad?

today's EEN report mentions FoH preparing a Second bid. Have they not all submitted 2nd bids previously on advice from the Administrators? sure I read that somewhere.

[Kato]

today's EEN report mentions FoH preparing a Second bid. Have they not all submitted 2nd bids previously on advice from the Administrators? sure I read that somewhere.

Yeah, they're going to buy Hibs as well and form a merger of both clubs. The brand new team will be called Heart of Midlothian and will play at (a debt free) Tynecastle.

[Jack]

Whoa, whoa, whoa, boys! Have I missed something? Are you really accusing Sidney of being an undercover yam? Hibernian's great man of letters? I've not felt my belief system shaken like this since Nessie told me there's no Santa.

Hibernian's great man of letters lol

Its just that the letters are not always in the right order!

[CB_NO3]

BDO look to be a bunch of highland dancers. First of all they ask Hearts fans to shift 3000 season tickets to keep the club going till January, they done that and sold out their allocation for the derby yet there is still a funding gap. They were confident in getting out this mess then back tracked and said liquidation is very much a possibility still. They obviously know a lot more than they are letting on but they are taking the Hearts fans for a ride while charging 600 quid an hour.

FOH are desperate to buy the club, yet cancelled August DDs. I find that bizzare to say the least. Surely getting as much dosh as possible into the coffers would be their number one aim. Do they know more than they are letting on?

[Bostonhibby]

Whoa, whoa, whoa, boys! Have I missed something? Are you really accusing Sidney of being an undercover yam? Hibernian's great man of letters? I've not felt my belief system shaken like this since Nessie told me there's no Santa.

Agree, I am hoping our greatest ever wordsmith is not punted, I was hoping he would last until at least Burns Night when he could enlighten us with a few pohums of his own for the occasion. If the yams go pop earlier I am sure Sindey will have played his part and have some words for us.

[Hibby Kay-Yay]

The more this drags on the more likely liquidation becomes.

[Hibbyradge]

FOH promised not to collect until they had a bid accepted.

I agree they could have had a handy amount collected if they'd actioned the D/Ds earlier, but they couldn't go back on their word.

Or else they'd look unprofessional. ..

[#FromTheCapital]

FOH promised not to collect until they had a bid accepted.

I agree they could have had a handy amount collected if they'd actioned the D/Ds earlier, but they couldn't go back on their word.

Or else they'd look unprofessional. ..

They also promised to refund any payments minus a small admin charge if they were not successful. Contradicting themselves.

Looks unprofessional :greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

BDO look to be a bunch of highland dancers. First of all they ask Hearts fans to shift 3000 season tickets to keep the club going till January, they done that and sold out their allocation for the derby yet there is still a funding gap. They were confident in getting out this mess then back tracked and said liquidation is very much a possibility still. They obviously know a lot more than they are letting on but they are taking the Hearts fans for a ride while charging 600 quid an hour.

FOH are desperate to buy the club, yet cancelled August DDs. I find that bizzare to say the least. Surely getting as much dosh as possible into the coffers would be their number one aim. Do they know more than they are letting on?

You've got your facts a bit muddled.

BDO asked for the ST money to enable Hearts to make it until the start of the season. Having done that, they now get TV money and everything else that goes along with trading.

They were never "confident in getting out this mess". They have always stressed the difficulties in the share ownership.

And they are not charging £600 per hour.

[brog]

You've got your facts a bit muddled.

BDO asked for the ST money to enable Hearts to make it until the start of the season. Having done that, they now get TV money and everything else that goes along with trading.

They were never "confident in getting out this mess". They have always stressed the difficulties in the share ownership.

And they are not charging £600 per hour.



You're being a tad disingenuous here Crops. Of course the average rate is nowhere near £600 but the Partner, I'm assuming Bryan Jackson, had charged 150 hours at £658 through July 19 = £89,535. Although I'm sure BJ never said the actual words highlighted above, their level of confidence was much higher prior to the joke bids being received. It was at that point & after the reaction from Lithuania, as I'm sure you noted in a prior post, that BJ suddenly came out & reminded everyone that a CVA may not happen & that liquidation remained a distinct possibility. As I've mentioned a few times previously I do think BDO have allowed their role to be somewhat blurred between being saviour of Yams & getting the best deal for creditors. The nonsense when they regurgitated Foulkes' statement re PBS valuation & ability to build on the land was possibly the prime example. If both aims coincide then fine but if not then the latter must take precedence.
Meanwhile BDO's fees must now be £300,000 + while 24 members of staff at Yam FC are working for nothing. It's the rich wot gets the pleasure!

[Pedantic_Hibee]

I'm sure Bryan Jackson said himself that he can't help but foster an attachment to the club he's administrating on. Conflict of interest there my Beetlejuiced friend.

[CropleyWasGod]

[/B]You're being a tad disingenuous here Crops. Of course the average rate is nowhere near £600 but the Partner, I'm assuming Bryan Jackson, had charged 150 hours at £658 through July 19 = £89,535. Although I'm sure BJ never said the actual words highlighted above, their level of confidence was much higher prior to the joke bids being received. It was at that point & after the reaction from Lithuania, as I'm sure you noted in a prior post, that BJ suddenly came out & reminded everyone that a CVA may not happen & that liquidation remained a distinct possibility. As I've mentioned a few times previously I do think BDO have allowed their role to be somewhat blurred between being saviour of Yams & getting the best deal for creditors. The nonsense when they regurgitated Foulkes' statement re PBS valuation & ability to build on the land was possibly the prime example. If both aims coincide then fine but if not then the latter must take precedence.
Meanwhile BDO's fees must now be £300,000 + while 24 members of staff at Yam FC are working for nothing. It's the rich wot gets the pleasure!

It's a pedantic point, sure, but the poster I was replying to said "BDO are charging £600 an hour". That is the kind of thing where Hibs.net myths take hold, and I wanted to nail it before it did.

As for their "level of confidence", of course they have to express confidence at that point. If they didn't, they wouldn't be doing their job properly. However, my point stands that they didn't ever say they would get out of the "mess".

Indeed, Trevor Birch also said at the outset that it was as bad a football insolvency as he'd ever seen.

[Kojock]

Statement by BDO 30th July

“Liquidation is always a possibility when a business is in administration, but we are confident that we can work with the bidders to produce an outcome that saves the club and provides an acceptable return to the creditors of Ukio Bankas. I believe that we are making progress towards a constructive solution and hopefully all parties will recognise that the best value will be realised by selling the club as a going concern.”

[lapsedhibee]

Statement by BDO 30th July

“Liquidation is always a possibility when a business is in administration, but we are confident that we can work with the bidders to produce an outcome that saves the club and provides an acceptable return to the creditors of Ukio Bankas. I believe that we are making progress towards a constructive solution and hopefully all parties will recognise that the best value will be realised by selling the club as a going concern.”

I'd be just as happy as BeetleJuice to tell tall tales for £600 an hour like what BDO are charging. :greengrin

[CB_NO3]

You've got your facts a bit muddled.

BDO asked for the ST money to enable Hearts to make it until the start of the season. Having done that, they now get TV money and everything else that goes along with trading.

They were never "confident in getting out this mess". They have always stressed the difficulties in the share ownership.

And they are not charging £600 per hour.
Ok I dont know the exact figure but they are due alot of cash. Well if they survived to the start of the season they will survive till January as they can trade via ticket sales and so on, pretty sure everyone is due TV money in August too. As the other poster says BDO were confident at one stage. Maybe it was a lie to sell season tickets, who knows? The fact is they have chopped and changed their minds to suit themselves and there is nout the Hearts fans can do about it. Music to my ears.

Anyway, looks like we are down to one bidder. Now upto the FOH to find some pennies. Looks like a loan from Anne Budge might be in order to save the club.

[YehButNoBut]

New story on BBC site saying that BBC Scotland has learned that fans' group the Foundation of Hearts are now in pole position to be handed preferred bidder status for the club.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23614393

Foundation of Hearts in pole position for preferred bidder status

Fans' group the Foundation of Hearts are now in pole position to be handed preferred bidder status for the club, BBC Scotland has learned.

The only other group who are in the running are Five Stars Football Ltd who are led by the former chairman of Livingston, Angelo Massone.

However they have still to supply proof of funding to administrator BDO.

A deadline has been set for them to provide this, along with details of who is backing their bid financially.

The Foundation of Hearts' chairman is Ian Murray MP.

BDO are looking to offer preferred bidder status possibly before the end of August, but any deal must be agreed with the major creditors of the club.

BBC Scotland has also learned that objections have been lodged in a Lithuanian court over the proposed liquidation of Hearts' parent company UBIG.

The Lithuanian investment company own 50% of Hearts shares and until the court makes a decision on the future of the company, no sale of Hearts can be completed.

Sources in Lithuania expect a decision from the courts on UBIG to be made before the end of September.

[clerriehibs]

It's a pedantic point, sure, but the poster I was replying to said "BDO are charging £600 an hour". That is the kind of thing where Hibs.net myths take hold, and I wanted to nail it before it did.

As for their "level of confidence", of course they have to express confidence at that point. If they didn't, they wouldn't be doing their job properly. However, my point stands that they didn't ever say they would get out of the "mess".

Indeed, Trevor Birch also said at the outset that it was as bad a football insolvency as he'd ever seen.

They are charging that; just not 24hrs per day.

[Part/Time Supporter]

New story on BBC site...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23614393


Only new information there is that confirmation of the UBIG insolvency is dragging on for longer than expected.

:cb

[CropleyWasGod]

Only new information there is that confirmation of the UBIG insolvency is dragging on for longer than expected.

:cb

... which won't help :greengrin

[Dashing Bob S]

Basically just tweeting this as I'm disgusted at the Huns pathetic attempts to hog the 'financial incompetence' headlines.


Gorgie rules.

[1875Sean]

Can anyone on here get a hand on that pic of the female hearts fan hanging out a romanov out banner out of her window?

[monktonharp]

Yeah, they're going to buy Hibs as well and form a merger of both clubs. The brand new team will be called Heart of Midlothian and will play at (a debt free) Tynecastle. oh, so I was right. this is now their 3rd bid:rolleyes:

[johnrebus]

Basically just tweeting this as I'm disgusted at the Huns pathetic attempts to hog the 'finan
cial incompetence' headlines.


Gorgie rules.


Scotland is nothing without the famous The Glasgow Rangers.


Rule Britannia

[TrinityHibs]

Can anyone on here get a hand on that pic of the female hearts fan hanging out a romanov out banner out of her window?

Google images Gorgie Munter will get you there

[Dashing Bob S]

Scotland is nothing without the famous The Glasgow Rangers.


Rule Britannia

Can't mention them in the same breath. After 'we' won WW2 we then gave the Germans all our money under the Marshall Plan, so that they could eclipse us economically - Petrie style- by building a new infrastructure.

[21.05.2016]

Can someone please explain to me exactly how the FoH is going to be able to financially run the club season after season. Are they completely reliant on supporters direct debits?


Sorry if this seems a stupid question but I still can't see how this is really workable.

[CropleyWasGod]

Can someone please explain to me exactly how the FoH is going to be able to financially run the club season after season. Are they completely reliant on supporters direct debits?


Sorry if this seems a stupid question but I still can't see how this is really workable.

Here's the theory, I think.

The direct debits, for this season, are supposed to keep the club afloat this year.

As of next season, the club will trade "normally", and be self-sustainable. The DD's will then be used to pay off whoever (Ann Budge? Ronnie Corbett? Kurt Wallander?) is putting the money up to purchase the club.

[lapsedhibee]

After 'we' won WW2

Ltyf

[CB_NO3]

Can someone please explain to me exactly how the FoH is going to be able to financially run the club season after season. Are they completely reliant on supporters direct debits?


Sorry if this seems a stupid question but I still can't see how this is really workable.
They will run the club the way Petrie and Co run Hibs for example, selling season tickets, match day tickets to home and away fans, selling merchandise, hospitality, getting shirt and stadium sponsors, TV income and so on.

[Keith_M]

They will run the club the way Petrie and Co run Hibs for example, selling season tickets, match day tickets to home and away fans, selling merchandise, hospitality, getting shirt and stadium sponsors, TV income and so on.


:agree:



This season is only an issue because they used up the money from 7,000 STs (and possibly more after that) before the season had even started. If they are run properly this year (no laughing at the back) they won't have to use the ST money up front in 2014/15.


Of course, that all depends on the fans and management being happy for the club to live within its means.. and finding the 500k to pay off football debt...and getting a successful CVA.

[YehButNoBut]

:agree:



This season is only an issue because they used up the money from 7,000 STs (and possibly more after that) before the season had even started. If they are run properly this year (no laughing at the back) they won't have to use the ST money up front in 2014/15.


Of course, that all depends on the fans and management being happy for the club to live within its means.. and finding the 500k to pay off football debt...and getting a successful CVA.

Just like Rangers then. :greengrin

[nonshinyfinish]

Here's the theory, I think.

The direct debits, for this season, are supposed to keep the club afloat this year.

As of next season, the club will trade "normally", and be self-sustainable. The DD's will then be used to pay off whoever (Ann Budge? Ronnie Corbett? Kurt Wallander?) is putting the money up to purchase the club.

So once they've paid off Corbett, they finally really will owe it to themselves?

[Ozyhibby]

:agree:



This season is only an issue because they used up the money from 7,000 STs (and possibly more after that) before the season had even started. If they are run properly this year (no laughing at the back) they won't have to use the ST money up front in 2014/15.


Of course, that all depends on the fans and management being happy for the club to live within its means.. and finding the 500k to pay off football debt...and getting a successful CVA.

And start properly maintaining the PBS while saving up( no bank finance available) to fund a new main stand.
All while in the Championship.
Even the best case scenario for the yams is pretty grim.

[joe breezy]

Some posters on here seem to read kickback too much

[Dashing Bob S]

Ltyf

RLTYF - with no debt, a war chest to buy new world cup stars and a spanking new stand!

[HFC 0-7]

:agree:



This season is only an issue because they used up the money from 7,000 STs (and possibly more after that) before the season had even started. If they are run properly this year (no laughing at the back) they won't have to use the ST money up front in 2014/15.


Of course, that all depends on the fans and management being happy for the club to live within its means.. and finding the 500k to pay off football debt...and getting a successful CVA.

The pledges are to be used for the close season between this and next as well as if they start using their season ticket money for next season to get them through the close season they will be in the same position.

[YehButNoBut]

Can anyone on here get a hand on that pic of the female hearts fan hanging out a romanov out banner out of her window?

Difference between Hearts and Hibs fans :thumbsup:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BRKrUVoCcAAjfAA.jpg:large

[Onion]

Just like Rangers then. :greengrin

Exactly. The yams can't help it. Be like a junky with a new line of credit :)

[jgl07]

The idea of a fan managed club may work for teams like Dunfermline provided that the fans have realistic expectations.

It is totally ludicrous for a team like Hearts with their 'Big Team' mentality. They will always be tempted to spend beyond their means and they will have zero access to credit. Assuming they can stagger on until the season tickets are sold for next season (February 2014?) they will be back into the same routine as recent years. The season ticket money for 2014-2015 will have been partially spent in 2013-2014.

How are they going to raise the cash to even keep the safety certificate for the old stand let alone finance a replacement? They have no access to cheap finance like Hibs have through the guarantees of Tom Farmer.

How long will their fans accept having to pay twice (direct debts and season tickets)? How will they cope with relegation and the inevitable fall in income? They will not be able to react as Hibs did by bringing in the likes of Latapy, Sauzee, and Paatelainen and taking a serious loss.

[bingo70]

Exactly, It's a ****ing stupid idea, they need to put down the crack pipes and get on with forming a new club.

[Ozyhibby]

The idea of a fan managed club may work for teams like Dunfermline provided that the fans have realistic expectations.

It is totally ludicrous for a team like Hearts with their 'Big Team' mentality. They will always be tempted to spend beyond their means and they will have zero access to credit. Assuming they can stagger on until the season tickets are sold for next season (February 2014?) they will be back into the same routine as recent years. The season ticket money for 2014-2015 will have been partially spent in 2013-2014.

How are they going to raise the cash to even keep the safety certificate for the old stand let alone finance a replacement? They have no access to cheap finance like Hibs have through the guarantees of Tom Farmer.

How long will their fans accept having to pay twice (direct debts and season tickets)? How will they cope with relegation and the inevitable fall in income? They will not be able to react as Hibs did by bringing in the likes of Latapy, Sauzee, and Paatelainen and taking a serious loss.

It's not just Tom Farmer that gets us favourable credit terms. It's a track record of always paying our debts and running a surplus in 7 out of the last 9 years.
Something else the yams don't have.

[hibees 7062]

You just know that every one of these f...wits that put money in will want a meeting every Friday to pick the team :lolyam:

[Kato]

You just know that every one of these f...wits that put money in will want a meeting every Friday to pick the team :lolyam:

Its a movment alright, just not the way ImanMP means it.

[HibeesLA]

You just know that every one of these f...wits that put money in will want a meeting every Friday to pick the team :lolyam:

This is going to be the problem. As stated before, they have expectations that far exceed what they will be able to afford with fans investment. Therefore, you'll start getting a divide in the support based on who can afford more, followed by the uber fan debate and who actually gets more of a say than the other. It will all end in tears, which I'm sure FOH are hoping will be after they have somehow made themselves self sufficient with the initial loan paid off.

Can't see it happening, and quite happy to watch it all unfold, assuming they even get that far.

[Time For Heroes]

Some posters on here seem to read kickback too much

****in too right I do!
To baking cakes, organising raffles, nights at the fringe, posters, t-shirts and ****ing homebrew! Cheers me up daily!

Plus, if I'm really down I go on the betting thread and laugh at all those ********s that lost money.

Makes sense now.
****in homebrew hahaha
Die you inbred *****

[Pat 0-7]

Difference between Hearts and Hibs fans :thumbsup:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BRKrUVoCcAAjfAA.jpg:large

Hibs class !!!!! :wink::thumbsup:

[rcarter1]

The idea of a fan managed club may work for teams like Dunfermline provided that the fans have realistic expectations.

It is totally ludicrous for a team like Hearts with their 'Big Team' mentality. They will always be tempted to spend beyond their means and they will have zero access to credit. Assuming they can stagger on until the season tickets are sold for next season (February 2014?) they will be back into the same routine as recent years. The season ticket money for 2014-2015 will have been partially spent in 2013-2014.

How are they going to raise the cash to even keep the safety certificate for the old stand let alone finance a replacement? They have no access to cheap finance like Hibs have through the guarantees of Tom Farmer.

How long will their fans accept having to pay twice (direct debts and season tickets)? How will they cope with relegation and the inevitable fall in income? They will not be able to react as Hibs did by bringing in the likes of Latapy, Sauzee, and Paatelainen and taking a serious loss.

Would be hilarious to see them survive only for a fans owned club to go belly up. If only to get them to face facts once and for all.

If the FoH pull their bid off, and they avoid relegation, Hearts could recover financially very quickly - if they learn how to keep within budget. Unfortunately there are enough trumpets who will walk over broken glass to play for Rangers and Hearts. Big wages arent everything, as long as Hearts keep up their triumphal trumboneering, they will attract half decent players to steady the ship 'because its a massive club'.

This season is our opportunity to horse them big time.

Bring on Sunday!! :flag::flag:

[fatbloke]

Of course they can always charge £35 for their premium product. Hearts v Airdrieonians etc etc:greengrin

[Dunderhall]

So once they've paid off Corbett, they finally really will owe it to themselves?
RC seems pleased.

10820

[PatHead]

Looks like the charity office think taking £35,000 from a charity is alright. The charity regulator replied to my request as follows:-
Thank you for your email of 31 July 2013. I can confirm that following media reports regarding the relationship between Big Hearts Community Trust (SC037311) and Heart of Midlothian plc we have recently concluded an inquiry into the charity. We did not identify any regulatory concerns during this inquiry.


We note the amount due to Big Hearts Community Trust from Heart of Midlothian plc, but the existence of a debt due to a charity from a company in administration is not a regulatory matter. If you wish any further information on this you should contact the charity.


Yours sincerely


Angela Miller



Angela Miller | Compliance and Investigation Manager

[Hibbyradge]

Would be hilarious to see them survive only for a fans owned club to go belly up. If only to get them to face facts once and for all.

If the FoH pull their bid off, and they avoid relegation, Hearts could recover financially very quickly - if they learn how to keep within budget. Unfortunately there are enough trumpets who will walk over broken glass to play for Rangers and Hearts. Big wages arent everything, as long as Hearts keep up their triumphal trumboneering, they will attract half decent players to steady the ship 'because its a massive club'.

This season is our opportunity to horse them big time.

Bring on Sunday!! :flag::flag:

I've coloured in the bits that are dubious to say the least.

[CropleyWasGod]

Looks like the charity office think taking £35,000 from a charity is alright. The charity regulator replied to my request as follows:-
Thank you for your email of 31 July 2013. I can confirm that following media reports regarding the relationship between Big Hearts Community Trust (SC037311) and Heart of Midlothian plc we have recently concluded an inquiry into the charity. We did not identify any regulatory concerns during this inquiry.


We note the amount due to Big Hearts Community Trust from Heart of Midlothian plc, but the existence of a debt due to a charity from a company in administration is not a regulatory matter. If you wish any further information on this you should contact the charity.


Yours sincerely


Angela Miller



Angela Miller | Compliance and Investigation Manager

Yet OSCR get aerated about accounts not being signed on the correct page. :rolleyes:

I see their pedantic point, though. In their eyes, it would be at worst be a governance weakness on the part of the charity. If the big bad Yams haven't paid what's due, then the charity isn't to blame......ergo no action.

Bureaucrats.... I hate OSCR

[PatHead]

Yet OSCR get aerated about accounts not being signed on the correct page. :rolleyes:

I see their pedantic point, though. In their eyes, it would be at worst be a governance weakness on the part of the charity. If the big bad Yams haven't paid what's due, then the charity isn't to blame......ergo no action.

Bureaucrats.... I hate OSCR

Can't believe they don't have a problem with money resting in Hearts account though. Does this not breach guidelines, surely? Should Trustees not be held to account or at least managers and do charities have right to lend to Limited Companies?

[CropleyWasGod]

Can't believe they don't have a problem with money resting in Hearts account though. Does this not breach guidelines, surely? Should Trustees not be held to account or at least managers and do charities have right to lend to Limited Companies?

Whether they have a right to would be defined in their Constitution; every charity's is different. It would be unusual, sure, but not necessarily illegal.

Where I have a problem is in how quickly OSCR seem to have conducted their "investigation". It's been barely a week since the creditors list was published; unless a complaint was made a while back, it does seem a bit rushed.

Any idea who the beneficiaries of the charity are? If they have a say, they at least should be asking questions of the trustees.

[PatHead]

Would the constitution have objectives of the charity and is it worth writing to them to obtain a copy to ascertain of the constitution or would I be flogging a dead horse?

[CropleyWasGod]

Would the constitution have objectives of the charity and is it worth writing to them to obtain a copy to ascertain of the constitution or would I be flogging a dead horse?

This is their page from the OSCR site:-

https://www.oscr.org.uk/search-charity-register/charity-extract/?charitynumber=sc037311

Just like the club, their last 2 Returns were late. And, they had a deficit of £30k last year.

Oh, they got £244k Government funding too. :rolleyes:


According to that page, you have a right to ask to see their accounts and constitution.

Get Sidney on it.

[PatHead]

This is their page from the OSCR site:-

https://www.oscr.org.uk/search-charity-register/charity-extract/?charitynumber=sc037311

Just like the club, their last 2 Returns were late. And, they had a deficit of £30k last year.

Oh, they got £244k Government funding too. :rolleyes:


According to that page, you have a right to ask to see their accounts and constitution.

Get Sidney on it.

Will do so myself as Sydney will be busy replying to all the letters he received whilst at seton sands. I'll let you know if I ever get a reply and might even write to an MSP about it as Grants are involved

[rcarter1]

I've coloured in the bits that are dubious to say the least.

Perhaps, but until we know for sure they remain possible. The bit about players joining them because they are 'massive' is obviously tongue in cheek, but even without the inflated wages they can regroup quickly enough next season.
The escape relegation bit is a stretch I admit, but again, until its a done deal, its possible.

FWIW, if they get away with it, what are all supposed to do? Forever be upset that they ditched a load of debt? One way or another, its out of our hands, if they go, they go, and if they stay, they stay. I'm more interested in beating them when we play them.

[CropleyWasGod]

Will do so myself as Sydney will be busy replying to all the letters he received whilst at seton sands. I'll let you know if I ever get a reply and might even write to an MSP about it as Grants are involved

If the accounts are properly prepared (and OSCR are hot on that.... form before substance, it seems :rolleyes:), they will tell you where in Government the funds came from.

Give me a shout if you want me to look at them.

[SmashinGlass]

This is their page from the OSCR site:-

https://www.oscr.org.uk/search-charity-register/charity-extract/?charitynumber=sc037311

Just like the club, their last 2 Returns were late. And, they had a deficit of £30k last year.

Oh, they got £244k Government funding too. :rolleyes:


According to that page, you have a right to ask to see their accounts and constitution.

Get Sidney on it.

What's the bets that the £30k deficit is largely due to the money owed by hmfc?

[PatHead]

If the accounts are properly prepared (and OSCR are hot on that.... form before substance, it seems :rolleyes:), they will tell you where in Government the funds came from.

Give me a shout if you want me to look at them.

Have fired off the following email to Mrs Miller. Hope it shakes her enough to encourage her to look at the file again. Once again I will let you see her response. (Sydney eat your heart out for that efficiency!) "Thank you for your reply. I must admit I do find it surprising that a loan to a Limited Company is not against the constitution of the charity or of interest to the regulator. I intend to take this further and would be grateful if you could provide me with a copy of the charities constitution and a copy of their last set of accounts. On receipt of this information I intend to contact my MSP and would therefore appreciate an early reply.
If you do not have this information can you advise me where to get this information"

[monktonharp]

This is their page from the OSCR site:-

https://www.oscr.org.uk/search-charity-register/charity-extract/?charitynumber=sc037311

Just like the club, their last 2 Returns were late. And, they had a deficit of £30k last year.

Oh, they got £244k Government funding too. :rolleyes:


According to that page, you have a right to ask to see their accounts and constitution.

Get Sidney on it.had a look at the site, and all the info/guff about how good the people running it are. it makes a mockery of this operation when they fob off genuine enquiries like the ones made by Pathead. I cant understand, how the charity based in Gorgie (tynie fitba' grund) is still in operation, as the governing body states that the are "active" and yet they and whoever is running the show at tynie, has slipped the money off to the side to assist operations in the financial mess that is hmfc. we all put money into various boxes, direct debits etc over the term of our lifetime in good faith, if it's to a bona fide "charity". this has made my mind up that I will never contribute again.

[Hibbyradge]

FWIW, if they get away with it, what are all supposed to do? Forever be upset that they ditched a load of debt? One way or another, its out of our hands, if they go, they go, and if they stay, they stay. I'm more interested in beating them when we play them.

We are as one.

[Hibeesforever]

Have fired off the following email to Mrs Miller. Hope it shakes her enough to encourage her to look at the file again. Once again I will let you see her response. (Sydney eat your heart out for that efficiency!) "Thank you for your reply. I must admit I do find it surprising that a loan to a Limited Company is not against the constitution of the charity or of interest to the regulator. I intend to take this further and would be grateful if you could provide me with a copy of the charities constitution and a copy of their last set of accounts. On receipt of this information I intend to contact my MSP and would therefore appreciate an early reply.
If you do not have this information can you advise me where to get this information"

Good for you PatHead, The Rangers charity were exonerated after they clearly breached proper standards of governance.
If it is true that this charity was complicit in receiving tax payer money and then passing it to a private business then that would be a very serious issue.
The internal civil service enquiry would have to go to the top of government.
Perhaps that it why Ms Miller is keen on brevity and reluctant to investigate.
Good luck with your enquiries, there is a paradigm shift occurring in Scotland. The future is Green.

[Ozyhibby]

So long as they are liquidated, then none of this stuff will matter.

[CropleyWasGod]

So long as they are liquidated, then none of this stuff will matter.

On the contrary, if the governance of the charity is found wanting, the Trustees might have a problem.


Good for you PatHead, The Rangers charity were exonerated after they clearly breached proper standards of governance.
If it is true that this charity was complicit in receiving tax payer money and then passing it to a private business then that would be a very serious issue.
The internal civil service enquiry would have to go to the top of government.
Perhaps that it why Ms Miller is keen on brevity and reluctant to investigate.
Good luck with your enquiries, there is a paradigm shift occurring in Scotland. The future is Green.

...only if its Constitution expressly forbade it.

Most charities have a catch-all clause in their constitution which enables them to "advance/loan/grant any monies.... in pursuit of their objectives/for any purpose" etc etc. I suspect that that will be the case here.

[greenginger]

Good for you PatHead, The Rangers charity were exonerated after they clearly breached proper standards of governance. <br>
If it is true that this charity was complicit in receiving tax payer money and then passing it to a private business then that would be a very serious issue.<br>
The internal civil service enquiry would have to go to the top of government. <br>
Perhaps that it why Ms Miller is keen on brevity and reluctant to investigate. <br>
Good luck with your enquiries, there is a paradigm shift occurring in Scotland. The future is Green.<br>
<br>A good line of inquiry would be to ask the trustees if they had approved the loan arrangement to HOMFC<br>
( common factor here being David Southern being CEO or chairman of both organisations )<br>I think the Politicos like Gillian Tee, Brian Fallon and Jim Panton will dump on Southern if they were not in the loop.<br>Also ,I see the Heritage Lottery Fund are a sponsor and they are usually on the ball if there is a suggestion of misuse of funds in anything they contribute to, so an inquiry there might produce a response.<br>FWIW I think there will be a clause in the Big Hearts Trust allowing them to lend surplus funds to organisations at appropriate interest rates to generate income for the Trust, but lending to an organisation known to be insolvent is a different thing all together.<br>Finally, I wonder how much cash is skimmed in way of expenses, fees, leases, and the rest by HOMFC and the trustees ? these people seldom give their time for nowt.

[BarneyK]

Barry Anderson ‏@BarryAnderson_8 49m Foundation of Hearts reject an offer from Angelo Massone to join forces in the battle for control of #HMFC. Full story in today's EN.

The big Liquidation party cannae be far away now :cb

[#FromTheCapital]

Barry Anderson ‏@BarryAnderson_8 49m Foundation of Hearts reject an offer from Angelo Massone to join forces in the battle for control of #HMFC. Full story in today's EN.

The big Liquidation party cannae be far away now :cb

That's 2 offers from other bidders they've knocked back now, not sure if that's good news or bad news

[YehButNoBut]

Barry Anderson ‏@BarryAnderson_8 49m Foundation of Hearts reject an offer from Angelo Massone to join forces in the battle for control of #HMFC. Full story in today's EN.

The big Liquidation party cannae be far away now :cb

Hearts fans are taking this as a positive sign that FoH don't need his cash and have the funds in place to make a successful bid themselves.

I wonder who's correct. :greengrin

[Sanger]

That's 2 offers from other bidders they've knocked back now, not sure if that's good news or bad news

You can't go into bed with him - he's never produced any money and will just rip everybody off! Think the liquidation party is nearing - FOH Hearts nowhere near what Ukio are looking for which must be higher than the fictional £5m the EN/Barry Anderson and others are throwing around. If FOH were millions short - how can they make that up with money upfront on the tabel now?

[Jack Hackett]

That's 2 offers from other bidders they've knocked back now, not sure if that's good news or bad news

Could that be because both of those offers included selling the ground?

[BarneyK]

Looking at it another way, you've got to imagine that Massone is now pretty much out of the running if he's trying to make deals to get in with FOH?

[green glory]

Hearts fans are taking this as a positive sign that FoH don't need his cash and have the funds in place to make a successful bid themselves.

I wonder who's correct. :greengrin

They're stupid enough to believe anything is a positive sign. It's the Yam way, just as its the Hun way.

They think they're untouchable hence why they're sleepwalking to their doom.

[StevieC]

Hearts fans are taking this as a positive sign that FoH don't need his cash and have the funds in place to make a successful bid themselves.

I wonder who's correct. :greengrin

I suspect that it's knocked back because it would mean FoH having to pass control over to the person/consortium that provided the majority of the funding.

Massone will simply be looking for FoH to provide a little bit more capital and the ongoing funding but keeping overall control, and probably using the emotional "or your club will die" as the alternative. Unfortunately (or fortunately) FoH will have to knock it back because it goes against the promise of "fan control" that the direct debits were set up for (and not because they have sufficient funds).

[Kaiser1962]

The Rangers thing has been re opened after a heap of pressure from Celtic fans and it would appear he OSCR are a bit rattled.

Whether what happened (at Sevco and Hearts) is legal (it probably is) there is little doubt that those that contribute to these worthy causes do not intend their cash to be subsidising a loss making football team, otherwise they would have made the contribution directly, as has subsequently been the case at both clubs. I would imagine the advertising blurb for both charities will not mention that this happens.


Lets keep at them though.



Good for you PatHead, The Rangers charity were exonerated after they clearly breached proper standards of governance.
If it is true that this charity was complicit in receiving tax payer money and then passing it to a private business then that would be a very serious issue.
The internal civil service enquiry would have to go to the top of government.
Perhaps that it why Ms Miller is keen on brevity and reluctant to investigate.
Good luck with your enquiries, there is a paradigm shift occurring in Scotland. The future is Green.

[Gus Fring]

I suspect that it's knocked back because it would mean FoH having to pass control over to the person/consortium that provided the majority of the funding.

Massone will simply be looking for FoH to provide a little bit more capital and the ongoing funding but keeping overall control, and probably using the emotional "or your club will die" as the alternative. Unfortunately (or fortunately) FoH will have to knock it back because it goes against the promise of "fan control" that the direct debits were set up for (and not because they have sufficient funds).

This is exactly what I would have said based on the info I have about the FOH bid. Every time BDO/UKIO asks them to raise their bid they are needing to borrow more money. I'm led to believe this isn't them bidding low expecting to be higher, FOH are going all in every time because the way they see it, they've nothing to lose. If it fails they just give the money back. They are hamstrung by the terms of the direct debits and the fact pledges aren't rising in any significant fashion. They can't borrow too much because they've agreed to pay it back fairly promptly and they would be saddling the club with almost as much debt as it had before.

Liquidation is still the most likely outcome but BDO has every intention at the moment of stringing this out for as long as possible.

[Treadstone]

This is exactly what I would have said based on the info I have about the FOH bid. Every time BDO/UKIO asks them to raise their bid they are needing to borrow more money. I'm led to believe this isn't them bidding low expecting to be higher, FOH are going all in every time because the way they see it, they've nothing to lose. If it fails they just give the money back. They are hamstrung by the terms of the direct debits and the fact pledges aren't rising in any significant fashion. They can't borrow too much because they've agreed to pay it back fairly promptly and they would be saddling the club with almost as much debt as it had before.

Liquidation is still the most likely outcome but BDO has every intention at the moment of stringing this out for as long as possible.

Would the debt burden be on the club ? I thought it would be repaid to individual(s) from the FoH pledges as they would be unlikely to get a credit line from anywhere.

[CropleyWasGod]

Would the debt burden be on the club ? I thought it would be repaid to individual(s) from the FoH pledges as they would be unlikely to get a credit line from anywhere.

It would, legally, be on the club.

The pledges are paid to the club, and thence to the lenders.

[Treadstone]

It would, legally, be on the club.

The pledges are paid to the club, and thence to the lenders.

How does this work ? The individual(s) front up the money, give to FoH who bid for club and if successful immediately put the debt on the club ?

[CropleyWasGod]

How does this work ? The individual(s) front up the money, give to FoH who bid for club and if successful immediately put the debt on the club ?

Not quite.

The plan, as I understand it, is:-

FOH's backer (who may or may not be Anne Budge) is paying for the club up-front.

The pledges are designed to pay that lending back, eventually. However, for this season, they will be used to pay for the running costs, and the £500k football debt.

From next season on, they will start to repay the funder.

:cb

[Treadstone]

Not quite.

The plan, as I understand it, is:-

FOH's backer (who may or may not be Anne Budge) is paying for the club up-front.

The pledges are designed to pay that lending back, eventually. However, for this season, they will be used to pay for the running costs, and the £500k football debt.

From next season on, they will start to repay the funder.

:cb

That's what i thought the plan was. Why then does the debt have to go to the football club ? Some sort of security ?

[Gus Fring]

That's what i thought the plan was. Why then does the debt have to go to the football club ? Some sort of security ?

Because the debt is being used specifically to buy the football club & the repayments are coming from the earnings of the football club.

[PapillonVert]

Not quite.

The plan, as I understand it, is:-

FOH's backer (who may or may not be Anne Budge) is paying for the club up-front.

The pledges are designed to pay that lending back, eventually. However, for this season, they will be used to pay for the running costs, and the £500k football debt.

From next season on, they will start to repay the funder.

:cb

As I understand it, FoH have said their pledges amount to £3.75 million to fund the club for the next 3 years.

Assuming £1.25 million is to fill in the black hole left through the disappearance of 7,000 worth of seasons for the season just underway, that means they are due to pay back a total of £2.5 million over the next two seasons to the financial backer? Is that right?

Presumably, that includes an amount for interest and so the bid by FoH must be around £2 million-ish?

If so, and going on what's been said here, that can't be anywhere near acceptable to the secured creditor.

Plus, of course, there is the football debt to take care of meaning the capital funding available to acquire the club + assets must be even lower still.

[Treadstone]

Because the debt is being used specifically to buy the football club & the repayments are coming from the earnings of the football club.

Sounds like an owe it to themselves kind of deal! Go into admin because you have no cash, get sold and then club assumes the sum used to buy the club as debt. I know what you and CWG are saying but it seems there isn't a lot of independence attached to the offers if this is how it plays out.
Although to be honest if I was ponying up I would want some guarantee.

[Gus Fring]

As I understand it, FoH have said their pledges amount to £3.75 million to fund the club for the next 3 years.

Assuming £1.25 million is to fill in the black hole left through the disappearance of 7,000 worth of seasons for the season just underway, that means they are due to pay back a total of £2.5 million over the next two seasons to the financial backer? Is that right?

Presumably, that includes an amount for interest and so the bid by FoH must be around £2 million-ish?

If so, and going on what's been said here, that can't be anywhere near acceptable to the secured creditor.

Plus, of course, there is the football debt to take care of meaning the capital funding available to acquire the club + assets must be even lower still.

My understanding is that pledges are only supposed to be used to fund the business for the rest of the 2013-14 season. After that the club will be able to trade "normally" at which point the repayments on the money that was used to secure the club will start. Every penny that FOH has available to them as of this moment is borrowed, they cannot start taking pledges until they have control of Hearts. The more they borrow to buy Hearts, the bigger the amount they have to pay back.

[PapillonVert]

My understanding is that pledges are only supposed to be used to fund the business for the rest of the 2013-14 season. After that the club will be able to trade "normally" at which point the repayments on the money that was used to secure the club will start. Every penny that FOH has available to them as of this moment is borrowed, they cannot start taking pledges until they have control of Hearts. The more they borrow to buy Hearts, the bigger the amount they have to pay back.

OK, so FoH are basically trying to get hold of the club on the cheap and are hoping Micawberishly that something (i.e. enough funds to run the show and pay back the borrowings) will turn up. Why would anyone want to lend if the ability to repay isn't very clear?

Sounds like they haven't learned their lesson at all.

BTW, and apropos of on-going costs, will BDO have to pay the Police bill for Sunday?


Sounds like an owe it to themselves kind of deal! Go into admin because you have no cash, get sold and then club assumes the sum used to buy the club as debt. I know what you and CWG are saying but it seems there isn't a lot of independence attached to the offers if this is how it plays out.
Although to be honest if I was ponying up I would want some guarantee.

All sounds a bit like one of those Roman banquets where they all stuffed their faces and then made themselves sick so they could start all over again.

They used to have a room set aside especially for the purpose - called the Vomitorium - maybe that should be the new name for Tynie. :greengrin Although historians nowadays dispute whether there ever was such a room. No disputing possible with regard to Edinburgh's Disgrace, aka HMFC.

[Dunderhall]

My understanding is that pledges are only supposed to be used to fund the business for the rest of the 2013-14 season. After that the club will be able to trade "normally" at which point the repayments on the money that was used to secure the club will start. Every penny that FOH has available to them as of this moment is borrowed, they cannot start taking pledges until they have control of Hearts. The more they borrow to buy Hearts, the bigger the amount they have to pay back.
All of which bears little resemblance as to how the initial sell of the pledge front was presented, and in fact FoH have never been "open and transparent" in this area at all.

[Gus Fring]

OK, so FoH are basically trying to get hold of the club on the cheap and are hoping Micawberishly that something (i.e. enough funds to run the show and pay back the borrowings) will turn up. Why would anyone want to lend if the ability to repay isn't very clear?

Sounds like they haven't learned their lesson at all.

BTW, and apropos of on-going costs, will BDO have to pay the Police bill for Sunday?

The earning potential of the club is there if it's run correctly so paying the money back shouldn't be a problem.

Yes BDO will be paying the police for Sunday.

[PapillonVert]

The earning potential of the club is there if it's run correctly so paying the money back shouldn't be a problem.

Yes BDO will be paying the police for Sunday.

Thanks for this - in other words, they will have to cut their cloth like everyone else and live within their means. So, au revoir to £10,000 per week players, squads of around 50, Champions League glory and all the rest of the Big Team delusions of grandeur.

The dawn of the era of cold reality.

Still, it was all worth it, wasn't it?

[7062]

Does anyone know when we're likely to hear what the up to date valuation of tiny is? Was there not going to be another survey done soon?

[Caversham Green]

That's what i thought the plan was. Why then does the debt have to go to the football club ? Some sort of security ?

The way the Rangers CVA was intended to work was that Sevco would lend the money to Rangers so that the club could partially pay back its debts. Because debts exceeded asset value the shares were worthless and would be transferred for nil or a nominal fee as a condition of the loan. That loan would then be the club's debt to pay back as agreed with the lenders. I would imagine a similar arrangement is being suggested here.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Is a vomitorium not an access/egress passageway in a theatre? I'm sure thats what I heard on QI! :-)

The best example I can think of is the tunnel through the terracing at the old McLeod Street end at Tynie. Although having said that I've been spewing coming out of that hole on numerous occasions!

[CropleyWasGod]

Is a vomitorium not an access/egress passageway in a theatre? I'm sure thats what I heard on QI! :-)

I'm sure they have one in the Bernabeu or the Camp Nou.

[Prof. Shaggy]

All sounds a bit like one of those Roman banquets where they all stuffed their faces and then made themselves sick so they could start all over again.

They used to have a room set aside especially for the purpose - called the Vomitorium - maybe that should be the new name for Tynie.

This is beautiful. Quite, quite beautiful.

[Liberal Hibby]

Is a vomitorium not an access/egress passageway in a theatre? I'm sure thats what I heard on QI! :-)

The best example I can think of is the tunnel through the terracing at the old McLeod Street end at Tynie. Although having said that I've been spewing coming out of that hole on numerous occasions!

You're thinking of Vomitory: http://www.webdictionary.co.uk/definition.php?query=vomitory

[Hibeesforever]

...only if its Constitution expressly forbade it.

Most charities have a catch-all clause in their constitution which enables them to "advance/loan/grant any monies.... in pursuit of their objectives/for any purpose" etc etc. I suspect that that will be the case here.

Agree with you CWG. Nevertheless, also on this basis the funding agreement between the grant provider and the charity should be looked at. Funds being diverted and original purpose not fulfilled would necessitate a request for a grant to be pepaid.

Perhaps not a serious issue for Ms Miller but of concern for citizens that wish to trust those governing our institutions. Funds seem to definitely have been diverted.

I wonder if the public would be able to review the relevant documents. Auditors connected with HMFC related party entities seem to have a habit of missing things and understating risk.

[WeeWendy]

Is a vomitorium not an access/egress passageway in a theatre? I'm sure thats what I heard on QI! :-)

The best example I can think of is the tunnel through the terracing at the old McLeod Street end at Tynie. Although having said that I've been spewing coming out of that hole on numerous occasions!

Scott Lindsay told me that the tunnels at football grounds for fans etc to access the stadium are called vomitorium (vomitariums?). I think he said he was told that by the architects or whatever who designed the east stand.

[lord bunberry]

Thanks for this - in other words, they will have to cut their cloth like everyone else and live within their means. So, au revoir to £10,000 per week players, squads of around 50, Champions League glory and all the rest of the Big Team delusions of grandeur.

The dawn of the era of cold reality.

Still, it was all worth it, wasn't it?

And they will most probably have to do it for at least one season as a first division club.

[Deansy]

The idea of a fan managed club may work for teams like Dunfermline provided that the fans have realistic expectations.

It is totally ludicrous for a team like Hearts with their 'Big Team' mentality. They will always be tempted to spend beyond their means and they will have zero access to credit. Assuming they can stagger on until the season tickets are sold for next season (February 2014?) they will be back into the same routine as recent years. The season ticket money for 2014-2015 will have been partially spent in 2013-2014.

How are they going to raise the cash to even keep the safety certificate for the old stand let alone finance a replacement? They have no access to cheap finance like Hibs have through the guarantees of Tom Farmer.

How long will their fans accept having to pay twice (direct debts and season tickets)? How will they cope with relegation and the inevitable fall in income? They will not be able to react as Hibs did by bringing in the likes of Latapy, Sauzee, and Paatelainen and taking a serious loss.

THAT'S the bit that excites older Hibees (like me !) - we know the level and standards of their teams prior to the 'Financial Football' business-model that Mercer introduced 30+ years ago (and continued with ever since !) - CRAP !!. The cold, hard facts are that they will revert to these levels - both on the footballing-front and attendances - I can't wait !!!

( as time goes by, certain events can lose their value so, in that case, current and future custodians of Hibs should ensure that all - players, staff, supporters etc - never forget exactly what THEY have done to us (and other clubs) over the past 30+ years and should NEVER be forgotten - revenge MUST be had !!)

[CropleyWasGod]

Agree with you CWG. Nevertheless, also on this basis the funding agreement between the grant provider and the charity should be looked at. Funds being diverted and original purpose not fulfilled would necessitate a request for a grant to be pepaid.

Perhaps not a serious issue for Ms Miller but of concern for citizens that wish to trust those governing our institutions. Funds seem to definitely have been diverted.

I wonder if the public would be able to review the relevant documents. Auditors connected with HMFC related party entities seem to have a habit of missing things and understating risk.

Not disagreeing at all, but I think the likely response would be that the money lent to HMFC came from "unrestricted" funds, ie where the donor made no demands on how the money was used, or "core" funds, which are reserves built up over a number of years.

If the money did indeed come from "restricted" funds, then there is a problem. The accounts would help to clarify that.

[Keith_M]

Scott Lindsay told me that the tunnels at football grounds for fans etc to access the stadium are called vomitorium (vomitariums?). I think he said he was told that by the architects or whatever who designed the east stand.



Nope, according to this it's a Vomitory (pl, Vomitories).

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/vomitory

[PapillonVert]

You're thinking of Vomitory: http://www.webdictionary.co.uk/definition.php?query=vomitory

I do believe it is also sometimes called the vomitorium. Like auditorium it originates from Latin

From the Latin vomire, meaning to spew out.

[dangermouse]

I do believe it is also sometimes called the vomitorium. Like auditorium it originates from Latin

From the Latin vomire, meaning to spew out.

That should be incorporated into the Sevco Hearts badge (which will hopefully be along before the trams are up and running)

[Jack Hackett]

Getting a bit sick of all this vomiwhatever talk :sick:

[PapillonVert]

Getting a bit sick of all this vomiwhatever talk :sick:

Jings, sorry I mentioned it but you know how talking about the Jambos sometimes makes us all feel a bit queasy. :greengrin

But, sometimes we just have to do it. :wink: For the greater good and that.

[Crazyhorse]

Jings, sorry I mentioned it but you know how talking about the Jambos sometimes makes us all feel a bit queasy. :greengrin

But, sometimes we just have to do it. :wink: For the greater good and that.

'For the greater good'

[Jack Hackett]

Jings, sorry I mentioned it but you know how talking about the Jambos sometimes makes us all feel a bit queasy. :greengrin

But, sometimes we just have to do it. :wink: For the greater good and that.

:greengrin

[livi hibs 1875]

quick update please .not got time to read the last 15 pages ive missed .where are we on these smelly mutants not exesting any more and the pbs being sold from under them .thanks in advance guys ggtth

[Time For Heroes]

Sorry not got time to update you :0)
Alright it's because I can't understand half of what gets posted on this thread

[livi hibs 1875]

quick update please .not got time to read the last 15 pages ive missed .where are we on these smelly mutants not exesting any more and the pbs being sold from under them .thanks in advance guys ggtth

[Ken]

quick update please .not got time to read the last 15 pages ive missed .where are we on these smelly mutants not exesting any more and the pbs being sold from under them .thanks in advance guys ggtth

Not a full update but this is what I've picked up over the last couple of weeks.

1. FOH are rumoured to be the preferred bidder
2. Massone's group are yet to provide BDO with proof of funding (which could be the reason for 1. being rumoured)
3. Creditor's meeting this Monday (12th)
4. BDO have or are in the process of having Tynecastle valued, but this valuation will not be public knowledge.
5. FOH's original bid was increased after BDO's recommendation but this increased bid was then rejected by the administrator for Ukio Bankas, therefore I would assume they are in the process (hopefully not though) of planning another increased bid.

[SloopJB]

Sorry not got time to update you :0)
Alright it's because I can't understand half of what gets posted on this thread

Well I liked it.

[Jack Hackett]

quick update please .not got time to read the last 15 pages ive missed .where are we on these smelly mutants not exesting any more and the pbs being sold from under them .thanks in advance guys ggtth

#allisbarry

[Time For Heroes]

Well I liked it.

Haha cheers mate.

[Dashing Bob S]

Whatever the result on Sunday, I'm hoping the forthcoming week brings in its wake a ****storm of bad news for those cretins.

[Phil D. Rolls]

quick update please .not got time to read the last 15 pages ive missed .where are we on these smelly mutants not exesting any more and the pbs being sold from under them .thanks in advance guys ggtth

Lack of attention to detail is at the heart of this sorry mess.

[Chibs]

quick update please .not got time to read the last 15 pages ive missed .where are we on these smelly mutants not exesting any more and the pbs being sold from under them .thanks in advance guys ggtth
The clock is ticking and the damn alarm goes off .
BDO press the snooze button.

[The Green Goblin]

quick update please .not got time to read the last 15 pages ive missed .where are we on these smelly mutants not exesting any more and the pbs being sold from under them .thanks in advance guys ggtth


Make the time to read the "15" :hmmm: pages. It`s very informative.

[jabis]

quick update please .not got time to read the last 15 pages ive missed .where are we on these smelly mutants not exesting any more and the pbs being sold from under them .thanks in advance guys ggtth


quick update please .not got time to read the last 15 pages ive missed .where are we on these smelly mutants not exesting any more and the pbs being sold from under them .thanks in advance guys ggtth

hearts.not wanting to find out ?

[Dunderhall]

The clock is ticking and the damn alarm goes off .
BDO press the snooze button.
Snooze button!
Surely they'll pull the plug for everlasting silence.

[Pat 0-7]

Snooze button!
Surely they'll pull the plug for everlasting silence.

Lets hope so. :agree:

This is them we're talking about so I'm waiting on some kind of underhand deal being done to keep them afloat.......they've always been spawny ***** lets face it........

:grr:

[StevieT]

This is their page from the OSCR site:-

https://www.oscr.org.uk/search-charity-register/charity-extract/?charitynumber=sc037311

Just like the club, their last 2 Returns were late. And, they had a deficit of £30k last year.

Oh, they got £244k Government funding too. :rolleyes:


According to that page, you have a right to ask to see their accounts and constitution.

Get Sidney on it.

Reading this I see the following,

Income from charitable activity £86,635
Cost of charitable activity £358,978 :confused:

Total donations £43,786
Cost of generating donations £59,342

[monktonharp]

This is exactly what I would have said based on the info I have about the FOH bid. Every time BDO/UKIO asks them to raise their bid they are needing to borrow more money. I'm led to believe this isn't them bidding low expecting to be higher, FOH are going all in every time because the way they see it, they've nothing to lose. If it fails they just give the money back. They are hamstrung by the terms of the direct debits and the fact pledges aren't rising in any significant fashion. They can't borrow too much because they've agreed to pay it back fairly promptly and they would be saddling the club with almost as much debt as it had before.

Liquidation is still the most likely outcome but BDO has every intention at the moment of stringing this out for as long as possible. can you clarify a point? how many bids have FoH made? I got laughed at, by someone ,for suggesting that the next bid will be their 3rd. In Hindsight, it could actually be their 4rth, as IIRC they actually put up a bid of £450k-£500k initially ,and that was before BDO. correct?

[Hibeesforever]

Not disagreeing at all, but I think the likely response would be that the money lent to HMFC came from "unrestricted" funds, ie where the donor made no demands on how the money was used, or "core" funds, which are reserves built up over a number of years.

If the money did indeed come from "restricted" funds, then there is a problem. The accounts would help to clarify that.

Thanks, the accounts are not available online but it does say that they can be obtained.
The Big Hearts Community Charity does name all its trustees and therefore any potential conflicts of interest, like board membership of the SFA and membership of connected entities due significant monies like Herriot Watt University are disclosed.

I was only able to spend a short time looking at this and I could be completely wrong but form a search of the OSCR website, typing the names of various football teams like: Hibernian, Celtic, Rangers, Aberdeen, Ross County, St Johnstone, Motherwell, Inverness Caley Thistle, Partick Thistle, Dundee United and St. Mirren, only Big Hearts seemed to have been the beneficiary of government grant funding for the work that they were doing within their community.

It could just be a complete coincidence as the government grant may be separately audited and reported with more detail within the financial statements but I find this very interesting.

Their OSCR financial return was late twice which raises alarm bells immediately. Again, a quick check of OSCR reveals that very few, if any, of the other football charities were late in filing. Of course the records that were due for 31 March 2013 are still outstanding. I do not know if like the 2012 version there is an eleven month return window.

The turnover of the charity is impressive, the First Minister takes a big interest in the activities of the group. He is pictured buying season tickets and encouraging supporters to give money to the organisation for good causes. Whether politically, that is something that a First Minister should use his time to do, is a whole different question. As above, if no other football community group is receiving government assistance then it seems strange.

As you point out CropleywasGod, there is a need to determine what historical funds are restricted or unrestricted. There is also a need to obtain more of an understanding as to what the creditor item relates to within the BDO list of Creditors ? Payment in advance for something or just a straightforward loan of money ? (Apologies if this is elsewhere on the thread) If Big Hearts were acting as a conduit for donations as they now are (eg. see football matches at Spartans during July )then this does seem to be blurring the activities of what constitutes an arms length community group and a bona fide finance raising marketing arm.

I think all football club charities should get government funding and am happy that Hearts are pioneers by utilising this way to help the community and market the club.

I therefore think I will ask my local councillor and MSP to commend Big Hearts for doing this and ask them to personally lobby Parliament to do the same for all football clubs in Scotland. Goodness, then the First Minister would be really busy having to attend all those photo shoots at different grounds all around Scotland. His party mantra is always one of egalitarianism and social justice. Scotland should lead the way in Europe in this area. I would be delighted to give Big hearts the credit for initiating this to all the football clubs in Scotland.

[Dashing Bob S]

Shamelessly getting this chap back in limelight, as I'm too depressed to post anything Hibs related - it's been six years of Groundhog Day.

Any news from der dark side?

[green glory]

Shamelessly getting this chap back in limelight, as I'm too depressed to post anything Hibs related - it's been six years of Groundhog Day.

Any news from der dark side?

I think it's the initial creditor's meeting today. As FOH are the only show in town, they'll get preferred bidder status. If their offer is not to the Lith's liking. It's Jambogeddon time.

As its only the initial meeting today it won't happen immediately, but won't be long now.

I hope they enjoyed yesterday.

[Liberal Hibby]

I hope they enjoyed yesterday.

Of course there's a very good chance the history books will record yesterday's result as a 0-3 win for the mighty cabbage!

[Jack Hackett]

Of course there's a very good chance the history books will record yesterday's result as a 0-3 win for the mighty cabbage!

:greengrin

[Sanger]

Of course there's a very good chance the history books will record yesterday's result as a 0-3 win for the mighty cabbage!

That's the only way we would have won yesterday!

[Keith_M]

Of course there's a very good chance the history books will record yesterday's result as a 0-3 win for the mighty cabbage!


If so, it's very likely to be Fenlon's best result of the season.

[Notahappyhibee]

I don't know if this has been asked before if it has sorry.
What if FOH are allowed to buy hearts from the litho's , will the 25mill still be owed ?
I know FOH will apply for a CVA but can the litho's refuse it and sent them into liquidation all the same so they wasted 3 or 4 million for nothing or am I just clinging on to false hope.

[Phil D. Rolls]

I don't know if this has been asked before if it has sorry.
What if FOH are allowed to buy hearts from the litho's , will the 25mill still be owed ?
I know FOH will apply for a CVA but can the litho's refuse it and sent them into liquidation all the same so they wasted 3 or 4 million for nothing or am I just clinging on to false hope.

Who knows what you are doing here. :hmmm:

[Sanger]

I don't know if this has been asked before if it has sorry.
What if FOH are allowed to buy hearts from the litho's , will the 25mill still be owed ?
I know FOH will apply for a CVA but can the litho's refuse it and sent them into liquidation all the same so they wasted 3 or 4 million for nothing or am I just clinging on to false hope.


The Lith's would have to appove the CVA. If they do the 25mil debt is wiped clean.

[CropleyWasGod]

I don't know if this has been asked before if it has sorry.
What if FOH are allowed to buy hearts from the litho's , will the 25mill still be owed ?
I know FOH will apply for a CVA but can the litho's refuse it and sent them into liquidation all the same so they wasted 3 or 4 million for nothing or am I just clinging on to false hope.

The purchase price will only be paid if there is a deal.

[Biggie]

The Lith's would have to appove the CVA. If they do the 25mil debt is wiped clean.

I think they cheating barstewards are going to get away with this.........

[CropleyWasGod]

I think they cheating barstewards are going to get away with this.........

Take me through that.

[bingo70]

Take me through that.

Cva gets accepted and they claw back the 12 point defecit?

[CropleyWasGod]

Cva gets accepted and they claw back the 12 point defecit?

And the secured creditor?

And the frozen shares?

[Biggie]

Take me through that.

Cva gets accepted.....and they write off £25m.....please feel free to slap me about the heid

[CropleyWasGod]

Cva gets accepted.....and they write off £25m.....please feel free to slap me about the heid

Consider yourself slapped.:greengrin

[bingo70]

And the secured creditor?

And the frozen shares?

Cheers, I was hoping you'd reassure me.

In your opinion is liquidation a forgone conclusion?

[CropleyWasGod]

Cheers, I was hoping you'd reassure me.

In your opinion is liquidation a forgone conclusion?

Not a foregone conclusion, but it's still the likeliest.

I listened to BJ on the radio at half-time yesterday. If I caught Richard Gordon's question properly, it was along the lines of "is this do-able? You said previously that it was 5/10". BJ's answer was "about the same, but nearer 6 than 4".

Incidentally, everyone at Tynie has to pay for the half-time sannies now.:greengrin

[Sergey]

Cheers, I was hoping you'd reassure me.

In your opinion is liquidation a forgone conclusion?

I'll chip in here and state that ongoing administration is a forgone conclusion. With Vlad AWOL and the frozen shares (and shares that are held by others) I simply don't see anyway out of admin in the foreseeable. BDO recently hinted to this which has been forgotten/ignored by FoH and their media.

[CropleyisGod]

Take me through that.

With all due respect to my fellow Cropley I have some sympathy with the, admittedly illogical, view that this horrible club might somehow escape disaster. In my time supporting God's Own Team only during the Turnbull Years did we get any breaks against the Wongadome zombies. They are the luckiest team in Christendom...King Paddy's injury time equalizer at the school end and Super Ally's 30 yarder into the same goal (0-1, totally against the run of play) are the few things that keep me going ;-)

[Sanger]

Not a foregone conclusion, but it's still the likeliest.

I listened to BJ on the radio at half-time yesterday. If I caught Richard Gordon's question properly, it was along the lines of "is this do-able? You said previously that it was 5/10". BJ's answer was "about the same, but nearer 6 than 4".

Incidentally, everyone at Tynie has to pay for the half-time sannies now.:greengrin

you have to think that with A moderate economic recovery and the subsidies from the government we are going to see a modest recovery in house prices and an interest in development sites. My mate at the council who is looking to flog a substantial bit of Meadowbank leaving space for a running track and facilities That would replace the indoor halls says there is plenty of interest from developers. By the way he says no money for capital projects because of the coalitions cuts. So no help for a Yam joint stadium. Given all this the FOH are well short of any valuation of Tynie and can't see them getting any significant fresh cash to put upfront on the table. The independent valuation will show the value of Tynie to be too far off with what is likely to be FOH's next and last bid. Liquidation must follow in the next few weeks.

[Part/Time Supporter]

I'll chip in here and state that ongoing administration is a forgone conclusion. With Vlad AWOL and the frozen shares (and shares that are held by others) I simply don't see anyway out of admin in the foreseeable. BDO recently hinted to this which has been forgotten/ignored by FoH and their media.

That doesn't mean liquidation is inevitable. I think the likelier scenario is that they will muddle through in administration for a longer period, maybe the whole of this season, as BDO have hinted at on more than one occasion. The benefit of this is that it would remove the need for a buyer to fund the deficit caused by the pre-administration ticket sales entering the black hole. It would also allow time, as you suggest, for the legal issues in Lithuania to be resolved. The downside is that Hearts would be unable to sign any players for the duration and the administrators would have to go back to the fans later in the year with an appeal to fill the funding gap.

The justification for going to liquidation sooner rather than later would be if they could get a greater return that way (dubious, depends on who you ask about the PBS land value) and that it caps the fees run up by BDO. I know they ran up about £200K in the first six weeks, but their fees are likely to increase less quickly as the administration goes on because the urgent work (budgeting, redundancies and filtering out unrealistic bidders) has already been done.

[CropleyWasGod]

That doesn't mean liquidation is inevitable. I think the likelier scenario is that they will muddle through in administration for a longer period, maybe the whole of this season, as BDO have hinted at on more than one occasion. The benefit of this is that it would remove the need for a buyer to fund the deficit caused by the pre-administration ticket sales entering the black hole. It would also allow time, as you suggest, for the legal issues in Lithuania to be resolved. The downside is that Hearts would be unable to sign any players for the duration and the administrators would have to go back to the fans later in the year with an appeal to fill the funding gap.

The justification for going to liquidation sooner rather than later would be if they could get a greater return that way (dubious, depends on who you ask about the PBS land value) and that it caps the fees run up by BDO. I know they ran up about £200K in the first six weeks, but their fees are likely to increase less quickly as the administration goes on because the urgent work (budgeting, redundancies and filtering out unrealistic bidders) has already been done.

The way BJ spoke yesterday, that isn't possible. They don't have the money to last that long.

[Biggie]

you have to think that with A moderate economic recovery and the subsidies from the government we are going to see a modest recovery in house prices and an interest in development sites. My mate at the council who is looking to flog a substantial bit of Meadowbank leaving space for a running track and facilities That would replace the indoor halls says there is plenty of interest from developers. By the way he says no money for capital projects because of the coalitions cuts. So no help for a Yam joint stadium. Given all this the FOH are well short of any valuation of Tynie and can't see them getting any significant fresh cash to put upfront on the table. The independent valuation will show the value of Tynie to be too far off with what is likely to be FOH's next and last bid. Liquidation must follow in the next few weeks.

Now that will put a smile on my face after yesterday....

[Sanger]

Now that will put a smile on my face after yesterday....
I''d rather a good Hibs team playing attractive football with an insightful manager than Hearts go bust. If I can have both that would be Ok.

[Biggie]

I''d rather a good Hibs team playing attractive football with an insightful manager than Hearts go bust. If I can have both that would be Ok.

I was trying to keep my expectations realistic :greengrin

[sidneyhibbie]

Sidney is now back to normal after our holiday and i am raging apologies to all you guys for the suspension of my campaign on my to do list tomorrow

1. Another letter to HWU
2. Letter to LBP
3. Letter to Electricity company.
4. Letter to Ambulance Service.
5. EDC Commercial Rates Department.
6. Letter to BDO ( not acting in best inrerest of creditors )
7. Letter to the Insolvancy Practitioners Governing body comlaining about BDOs Actions.


I Am back.:hnet::not worth

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

I Am back.:hnet::not worth

You should change your name to Arnie!

[Treadstone]

Sidney is now back to normal after our holiday and i am raging apologies to all you guys for the suspension of my campaign on my to do list tomorrow

1. Another letter to HWU
2. Letter to LBP
3. Letter to Electricity company.
4. Letter to Ambulance Service.
5. EDC Commercial Rates Department.
6. Letter to BDO ( not acting in best inrerest of creditors )
7. Letter to the Insolvancy Practitioners Governing body comlaining about BDOs Actions.


I Am back.:hnet::not worth

Yam win and you're back. What a surprise!

[nonshinyfinish]

Sidney is now back to normal after our holiday and i am raging apologies to all you guys for the suspension of my campaign on my to do list tomorrow

1. Another letter to HWU
2. Letter to LBP
3. Letter to Electricity company.
4. Letter to Ambulance Service.
5. EDC Commercial Rates Department.
6. Letter to BDO ( not acting in best inrerest of creditors )
7. Letter to the Insolvancy Practitioners Governing body comlaining about BDOs Actions.


I Am back.:hnet::not worth

:yawn:

[Kojock]

Sidney is now back to normal after our holiday and i am raging apologies to all you guys for the suspension of my campaign on my to do list tomorrow

1. Another letter to HWU
2. Letter to LBP
3. Letter to Electricity company.
4. Letter to Ambulance Service.
5. EDC Commercial Rates Department.
6. Letter to BDO ( not acting in best inrerest of creditors )
7. Letter to the Insolvancy Practitioners Governing body comlaining about BDOs Actions.


I Am back.:hnet::not worth

Sidney you are now becoming an attention seeking bore. Do us all a favour and take your face for a 5h1te

[Bostonhibby]

Sidney is now back to normal after our holiday and i am raging apologies to all you guys for the suspension of my campaign on my to do list tomorrow

1. Another letter to HWU
2. Letter to LBP
3. Letter to Electricity company.
4. Letter to Ambulance Service.
5. EDC Commercial Rates Department.
6. Letter to BDO ( not acting in best inrerest of creditors )
7. Letter to the Insolvancy Practitioners Governing body comlaining about BDOs Actions.


I Am back.:hnet::not worth

:not worth welcome back Citizen Sid, another wee matter you could probably help get some action on...........

My mate got a splinter in his erse whilst sitting on the decrepit seats at tiny on Sunday. I told him you would be just the man to look into it for him.

Keep up the good work.

[Kato]

Sidney is now back to normal after our holiday and i am raging apologies to all you guys for the suspension of my campaign on my to do list tomorrow

1. Another letter to HWU
2. Letter to LBP
3. Letter to Electricity company.
4. Letter to Ambulance Service.
5. EDC Commercial Rates Department.
6. Letter to BDO ( not acting in best inrerest of creditors )
7. Letter to the Insolvancy Practitioners Governing body comlaining about BDOs Actions.


I'm on crack.:hnet::not worth

Fixed

[Moon unit]

The Trumpets are at it again! Keekbackers venting their spleens,suggesting that they are a special case and should be allowed to bring in extra players as...god forbid, some of their team might get injured!
Doe's the term 'Signing Embargo' mean anything???.....

[clerriehibs]

The Trumpets are at it again! Keekbackers venting their spleens,suggesting that they are a special case and should be allowed to bring in extra players as...god forbid, some of their team might get injured!
Doe's the term 'Signing Embargo' mean anything???.....

This will happen.

[Shields Hibee]

An embargo is an embargo, end of! The boys n gals on that forum don't understand that they must use what they have & if they cannot raise a team so match gets postponed then that's more points docked in my book.

[monteddie]

The Trumpets are at it again! Keekbackers venting their spleens,suggesting that they are a special case and should be allowed to bring in extra players as...god forbid, some of their team might get injured!
Doe's the term 'Signing Embargo' mean anything???.....


They think they have it rough .. they may have an embargo but we have Fenlon

[Beefster]

Sidney you are now becoming an attention seeking bore. Do us all a favour and take your face for a 5h1te

Becoming?

[clerriehibs]

An embargo is an embargo, end of! The boys n gals on that forum don't understand that they must use what they have & if they cannot raise a team so match gets postponed then that's more points docked in my book.

Danny Wilson.

[scott7_0(Prague)]

Danny Wilson.

Was already registered, get over it!
:aok:

[clerriehibs]

Was already registered, get over it!
:aok:

He was, with Liverpool, suck it up.

[hibees 7062]

He was, with Liverpool, suck it up.

:agree:

[Gus Fring]

This will happen.

It won't. The SPFL have already told them to bolt when this was raised. The SPFL are concerned about them adding players to the wage bill as well as keeping the punishment in place.

[Leishy1995]

Am I right in thinking one of UKIO and UBIG won't actually be involved if a CVA goes through?

[Hibbyradge]

He was, with Liverpool, suck it up.

When Hearts went into administration, he was still registered as a Hearts player.

[scott7_0(Prague)]

He was, with Liverpool, suck it up.


:agree:

HE was already registered with the SPL due to his loan deal, there was no need to re-register him due to his previous resigtration, what part of this is hard for you two to understand. No rules were broken.


When Hearts went into administration, he was still registered as a Hearts player.

:agree:

[Sanger]

This was reported yesterday on Bloomberg - there are Lita 1.3 billion of creditor claims (about £324 million) of which The Lithuanian State insurance rescue fund made about 60% or £194m. They effectively own Hearts now and will be calling the shots in the admin process. Can't see them settleing for £3m from FOH.

[clerriehibs]

When Hearts went into administration, he was still registered as a Hearts player.

With an agreement that he remained Liverpool's player. homfc couldn't sell him during that ; he wasn't their player. When he joined homfc permanently, you can be sure he signed a new contract AND that homfc had to register him again, and that was all effective AFTER admin. It's just been a twisting of the interpretation of the so-called signing ban. That's why I expect there to be more challenges to the bam, and for some of those challenges to be successful.
Lack of cover for specialist position is often given as a reason to sign keepers outside of transfer windows - must be open to homfc to use to sign a 'specialist' outfielder.
Not enough players to complete a fixture because there's a 'virus'.
Not enough players to fulfill a fixture because of international commitments? That's bound to feature.

The excuses will come thick and fast.

[scott7_0(Prague)]

With an agreement that he remained Liverpool's player. homfc couldn't sell him during that ; he wasn't their player. When he joined homfc permanently, you can be sure he signed a new contract AND that homfc had to register him again, and that was all effective AFTER admin. It's just been a twisting of the interpretation of the so-called signing ban. That's why I expect there to be more challenges to the bam, and for some of those challenges to be successful.


You still dont understand the process do you.

His registration was not cancelled by signing a new contract at Hearts it was proloned/extended whilst he was still registered with Hearts, yes maybe people call it a loop hole, but it was not a breach in the rules. If he left back to Liverpool, then Liverpool would have had to register him with the EFA/EPL and then his old registration would be with the EFA/EPL and not the SFA/SPL.

Come on, take the green tinted glasses off for a second, i hate them as much as any other Hibby, but i can see no rules were broken. :agree:

[clerriehibs]

You still dont understand the process do you.

His registration was not cancelled by signing a new contract at Hearts it was proloned/extended whilst he was still registered with Hearts, yes maybe people call it a loop hole, but it was not a breach in the rules. If he left back to Liverpool, then Liverpool would have had to register him with the EFA/EPL and then his old registration would be with the EFA/EPL and not the SFA/SPL.

Come on, take the green tinted glasses off for a second, i hate them as much as any other Hibby, but i can see no rules were broken. :agree:

Actually, I do. I well understand no rules were broken. I well understand a loophole was used. It went against the spirit of the ban, morally wrong, but what's a moral to that club. They even steal from the Poppy Trust.

He may have been registered to play for homfc, but he signed a contract after admin. Everyone talks about a signing ban, while the wording of it is a "registration ban".

My point is that they'll find other loopholes, deceptions, pleading of "fair play", "special case", or manipulative means to sign more players. And they will.

[Bad Martini]

My point is that they'll find other loopholes, deceptions, pleading of "fair play", "special case", or manipulative means to sign more players. And they will.

They will try. To be fair, there aren't too many stupid, desperate fudleys looking to sign for a fitba team that's going bust and who role a dice to see who gets paid this month :D

Fortunately wonga still do payday loans :D

[Gus Fring]

Actually, I do. I well understand no rules were broken. I well understand a loophole was used. It went against the spirit of the ban, morally wrong, but what's a moral to that club. They even steal from the Poppy Trust.

He may have been registered to play for homfc, but he signed a contract after admin. Everyone talks about a signing ban, while the wording of it is a "registration ban".

My point is that they'll find other loopholes, deceptions, pleading of "fair play", "special case", or manipulative means to sign more players. And they will.

If that's the case, why aren't they doing it already? Hearts have made 0 enquiries about player availability. Adding players to the wage bill will reduce their survival time.

[Sanger]

Now Hearts effectivley in hock to the EU as well as Lithuanian state

[blackpoolhibs]

Now Hearts effectivley in hock to the EU as well as Lithuanian state

What does this mean? :confused:

[HIBERNIAN-0762]

Donald Ducked?

[Sanger]

Donald Ducked?

http://www.4-traders.com/news/European-Commission-Daily-News-of-2013-08-14--17189944/

So Eu having to bail out Ukio for for £200m as well as Lithuanian state having to make good £200 m for depositors. Yes Ukio admins will accept thrre and six and few cakes from FOH!

[JeMeSouviens]

What does this mean? :confused:

Nothing practical Yam-wise, I don't think. Just means Lithuania getting some bail out cash from EU.

[Sanger]

Nothing practical Yam-wise, I don't think. Just means Lithuania getting some bail out cash from EU.
But more pressure on Liths to recover as much of Ukio's assets as possible. They don't want to be seen letting off debtors Scot free especially with entry into Euro planed.

[Jack]

The EU bailout will be a loan so will need to be repaid. Liths will still be after the them, perhaps with renewed anger given the embarrassment the whole affair continues to cause their country on a European level.

[Makaveli]

The EU bailout will be a loan so will need to be repaid. Liths will still be after the them, perhaps with renewed anger given the embarrassment the whole affair continues to cause their country on a European level.

For sure? The EU announcement just calls it a "cash grant."

[Jack]

For sure? The EU announcement just calls it a "cash grant."

Only that all the other bailouts have been.

[Eyrie]

What does this mean? :confused:

More votes for Farage?

Don't see it having any effect - the main player is the Lithuanian government wanting to recover as much as possible of the money that Romanov wasted/stole for various ventures. So housing developers have to be the favourites to outbid whatever loose change Save Hearts In Trouble can scrape together for the PBS.

[monktonharp]

More votes for Farage?

Don't see it having any effect - the main player is the Lithuanian government wanting to recover as much as possible of the money that Romanov wasted/stole for various ventures. So housing developers have to be the favourites to outbid whatever loose change Save Hearts In Trouble can scrape together for the PBS.:agree:the Lithuanian government were always going to try and get as much back as possible. they've been behind the company that put BDO into position remember. It's been the Lith depositors that have come out of this worst, and the present government won power in that country by going forward with a policy of cleaning up the scandalous corruption there over many years. they want into the EU, and need a vehicle to get there.that does not involve helping a ramshackle bunch of charlatans down Gorgie way.

[hibees 7062]

http://www.4-traders.com/news/European-Commission-Daily-News-of-2013-08-14--17189944/

So Eu having to bail out Ukio for for £200m as well as Lithuanian state having to make good £200 m for depositors. Yes Ukio admins will accept thrre and six and few cakes from FOH!

These will be handy then :greengrin
https://www.aldi.co.uk/fileadmin/fm-dam/products/product_photos/Specialbuys_2013/W26/Thursday/W2613_TH_Thursday_5.jpg (https://www.aldi.co.uk/en/specialbuys/hurry-while-stocks-last/hurry-while-stocks-last-product-detail-page/ps/p/cupcake-carrier/)

https://www.aldi.co.uk/fileadmin/fm-dam/products/product_photos/Specialbuys_2013/W26/Thursday/W2613_TH_Thursday_4.jpg (https://www.aldi.co.uk/en/specialbuys/hurry-while-stocks-last/hurry-while-stocks-last-product-detail-page/ps/p/cupcake-baking-set-in-a-case/)

[lucky]

FoH named as preferred bidder according to the Evening News on twitter.

[YehButNoBut]

Foundation of Hearts named preferred bidder

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/foundation-of-hearts-named-preferred-bidder-1-3046647

FOUNDATION OF HEARTS have been named preferred bidder for control of Hearts and are now in pole position to negotiate a takeover on behalf of supporters.

The Edinburgh club’s administrators, BDO, have effectively dismissed a rival offer from Angelo Massone’s Five Stars Football Limited to award the Foundation preferred bidder
status. The fans’ group must now agree a Creditors’ Voluntary Arrangement (CVA) with Ukio Bankas administrators to take Hearts out of administration.

Tynecastle staff were told the news this morning at a 9am meeting as BDO continue to negotiate a delicate situation with the aim of selling the club as a going concern.

[greenginger]

FoH named as preferred bidder according to the Evening News on twitter.

FoH will now get access to detailed running costs of Club and commercial contracts etc. ( although they have probs had all that from Southern if not BDO )

They can now fine tune their final bid and see if its enough for the Lith. admin to get them to first base.

If they still fall short I would think it will be the Mincer for them.

[Sanger]

Foundation of Hearts named preferred bidder

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/foundation-of-hearts-named-preferred-bidder-1-3046647

FOUNDATION OF HEARTS have been named preferred bidder for control of Hearts and are now in pole position to negotiate a takeover on behalf of supporters.

The Edinburgh club’s administrators, BDO, have effectively dismissed a rival offer from Angelo Massone’s Five Stars Football Limited to award the Foundation preferred bidder
status. The fans’ group must now agree a Creditors’ Voluntary Arrangement (CVA) with Ukio Bankas administrators to take Hearts out of administration.

Tynecastle staff were told the news this morning at a 9am meeting as BDO continue to negotiate a delicate situation with the aim of selling the club as a going concern.

Closing in and corning the one credible bidder - now the question is have FOH found the millions that Ukio's admins thought they were short on their last bid?

[flash]

Why are BDO so sympathetic towards FOH? Its almost as if they are more interested in them being successful than they are getting the best deal for their clients.

[HIBERNIAN-0762]

Why are BDO so sympathetic towards FOH? Its almost as if they are more interested in them being successful than they are getting the best deal for their clients.

That's exactly what I'm thinking, it seems that rather than recoup the money the yams have wasted the BDO seem like they are trying to keep them in business rather than getting the money back for the people who employed them in the first place :confused:

Can't get my head around this yam love in that's taking place now, they should have been banished to the lower leagues before the season started and left to fend for themselves yet it seems that no one seems to have the balls to get tough with them, the money they owe is outrageous and in any other normal business situation they would have been liquidated ages ago.

[Part/Time Supporter]

Why are BDO so sympathetic towards FOH? Its almost as if they are more interested in them being successful than they are getting the best deal for their clients.

You don't have the full information to make a comment like that. We don't know exactly how much Ukio want, how much FOH are offering or what the break up value is. It gives BDO a better chance of being appointed administrator of football clubs that go bust in future if they can make arrangements that allow the club to continue with as little disruption as possible. I don't see a queue of clubs lining up to appoint Duff & Phelps.

:wink:

....

BTW, I think this will lead to a CVA being agreed. It's not straightforward and will probably take some months to agree, but I think it will happen eventually. If say Ukio threatened FOH with pushing Hearts into liquidation for the sake of say £1M, I would imagine that FOH would be able to raise that from the fans and/or their backers. What we really need to be focusing on is the complete and utter failure of Hibs to take advantage of the situations affecting other clubs.


That's exactly what I'm thinking, it seems that rather than recoup the money the yams have wasted the BDO seem like they are trying to keep them in business rather than getting the money back for the people who employed them in the first place :confused:

Can't get my head around this yam love in that's taking place now, they should have been banished to the lower leagues before the season started

There was no reason in the rules to do that. "I don't like Hearts" isn't a rule.


and left to fend for themselves

Which would have put more people out of work.


yet it seems that no one seems to have the balls to get tough with them

Because it's nobody's interests to do so.


the money they owe is outrageous and in any other normal business situation they would have been liquidated ages ago.

Normal businesses of that size aren't able to raise £1M from their customer base in the space of a month.

[blackpoolhibs]

Is it only me who can see this, but BDO have made FOH the prefered bidders as they are the only one bidding?

And it matters not a jot if the Liths dont think its enough, and it was nowhere near enough last week?

[Gus Fring]

Why are BDO so sympathetic towards FOH? Its almost as if they are more interested in them being successful than they are getting the best deal for their clients.

Because the only other bidder didn't put their money where there mouth is. BDO are just trying to sell the club as a going concern.