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GordonR
18-08-2009, 12:55 PM
Starts this Friday, and ends September 19th. Will we see a dip in Benji's form, as we did in previous years? :boo hoo:

[Note. This isn't an invitation for the feeble-minded to have a pop at Benji's religion, or his observance of its rules...]

blackpoolhibs
18-08-2009, 01:00 PM
I really hope not. We need all the players, muslims included to stay fit as much as possible. Benji made a fantastic start to his return, :thumbsup:and i'd imagine he like the rest of us want that to continue. Yogi will treat him like a man, he wont molly coddle him, but he needs to start repaying hibs.

NORTHERNHIBBY
18-08-2009, 01:06 PM
I just wonder if this has had any impact on his decision to come back to Hibs. He has put himself on the back pages of the papers for the correct reasons but if he had stayed away and not played before Ramadan he would have dropped off the radar completely. I won't grumble with his impact on Saturday. I would ask him, though, if he thought that his lost passport and visa, were hiding in the Chairman's desk at Al Ahly.

Viva_Palmeiras
18-08-2009, 01:06 PM
Did JC even play him during Ramadan? Seemed like he didn't

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18-08-2009, 01:13 PM
I really hope not. We need all the players, muslims included to stay fit as much as possible. Benji made a fantastic start to his return, :thumbsup:and i'd imagine he like the rest of us want that to continue. Yogi will treat him like a man, he wont molly coddle him, but he needs to start repaying hibs.



There's absolutely no reason for Benji's fitness or form to suffer.

Never did see what the problem was.

As I understand it, Muslims should not eat during the hours of daylight during Ramadan. They eat a meal pre-dawn, then must fast until after sunset. There is no prohibition on eating during the hours of darkness.

It's also a time for self-examination and spiritual reflection, when devout Muslims will withdraw to a greater or lesser extent from worldly activities.

Why this was seen as an obstacle to Benji's continuing to play for Hibs two years ago, I don't know. I DO know that if someone (can't think who) had approached the subject of Ramadan, nutrition, and fitness in an arrogant, dictatorial or unsympathetic manner, Benji might very well (and quite justifiably) have been deeply offended.

Golden Bear
18-08-2009, 01:21 PM
There's absolutely no reason for Benji's fitness or form to suffer.

Never did see what the problem was.

As I understand it, Muslims should not eat during the hours of daylight during Ramadan. They eat a meal pre-dawn, then must fast until after sunset. There is no prohibition on eating during the hours of darkness.

It's also a time for self-examination and spiritual reflection, when devout Muslims will withdraw to a greater or lesser extent from worldly activities.

Why this was seen as an obstacle to Benji's continuing to play for Hibs two years ago, I don't know. I DO know that if someone (can't think who) had approached the subject of Ramadan, nutrition, and fitness in an arrogant, dictatorial or unsympathetic manner, Benji might very well (and quite justifiably) have been deeply offended.

But surely eating during the hours of darkness will effect his sleep pattern?
And to go from dawn to dusk without nutrition must surely have an adverse effect on a professional football players' stamina and energy

But there again, others seem to cope OK so why not Benji?

LiverpoolHibs
18-08-2009, 01:24 PM
There's absolutely no reason for Benji's fitness or form to suffer.

Never did see what the problem was.

As I understand it, Muslims should not eat during the hours of daylight during Ramadan. They eat a meal pre-dawn, then must fast until after sunset. There is no prohibition on eating during the hours of darkness.

It's also a time for self-examination and spiritual reflection, when devout Muslims will withdraw to a greater or lesser extent from worldly activities.

Why this was seen as an obstacle to Benji's continuing to play for Hibs two years ago, I don't know. I DO know that if someone (can't think who) had approached the subject of Ramadan, nutrition, and fitness in an arrogant, dictatorial or unsympathetic manner, Benji might very well (and quite justifiably) have been deeply offended.

I think the problem arises as some Muslims choose to strictly observe Sawm (fasting) during Ramadan which means not allowing anything to pass their lips during daylight hours - including water. That doesn't exactly go very well with playing a 90-minute, strenuous, game of football.

This has probably been asked a number of times before, but is Sol Bamba a practicing Muslim?

oneone73
18-08-2009, 01:26 PM
But surely eating during the hours of darkness will effect his sleep pattern?
And to go from dawn to dusk without nutrition must surely have an adverse effect on a professional football players' stamina and energy

But there again, others seem to cope OK so why not Benji?

I've been known to eat during the hours of darkness myself!

Professional Islamic athletes the world over manage fine during Ramadan. Collins made far too much of it, IMO.

Judas Iscariot
18-08-2009, 01:26 PM
I hope Benji and Zouma can play throughout Ramadan :agree:

If fit, healthy and interested these two can destroy opponents defences :greengrin

erin go bragh
18-08-2009, 01:26 PM
Did JC even play him during Ramadan? Seemed like he didn't
it was jc that caused the problems as tm never treated them[benji/zemmama any different] pretty sure morroco play games as normal.
so dont see how they cant train end play :confused:

Andy74
18-08-2009, 01:31 PM
it was jc that caused the problems as tm never treated them[benji/zemmama any different] pretty sure morroco play games as normal.
so dont see how they cant train end play :confused:

Yep, another thing that was used against Benji and it was not his decision, he wanted to play. That decision was what cost us Benji, who was in great nick and great form at the time for the last 2 years.

Golden Bear
18-08-2009, 01:36 PM
Yep, another thing that was used against Benji and it was not his decision, he wanted to play. That decision was what cost us Benji, who was in great nick and great form at the time for the last 2 years.

I suspect we're summising here Andy?

I'd be surprised if anyone on this Board were privvy to the discussions on Ramadan that took place between Benji & JC.

Hibbyradge
18-08-2009, 01:38 PM
See a dip in his form?

Compared to what? :wink:

Andy74
18-08-2009, 01:44 PM
I suspect we're summising here Andy?

I'd be surprised if anyone on this Board were privvy to the discussions on Ramadan that took place between Benji & JC.

JC was very clear at the time that it was his decision based on the advice of Roger Propos who had seemingly had experince of dealing with Muslim players.

He explained that he'd allowed Zouma to play a bit because he was lighter set and it seemed to affect him less.

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18-08-2009, 01:56 PM
But surely eating during the hours of darkness will effect his sleep pattern?
And to go from dawn to dusk without nutrition must surely have an adverse effect on a professional football players' stamina and energy

But there again, others seem to cope OK so why not Benji?

That's where an expert nutritionist would come in. The ONLY two Muslim players who I know of who have had a 'problem' during Ramadan are Benji and Zouma. And I'm VERY unclear as to whether THEY had the problem, or the coaching staff had the problem.


I think the problem arises as some Muslims choose to strictly observe Sawm (fasting) during Ramadan which means not allowing anything to pass their lips during daylight hours - including water. That doesn't exactly go very well with playing a 90-minute, strenuous, game of football.

This has probably been asked a number of times before, but is Sol Bamba a practicing Muslim?

That's right, LH.

I amy be wrong, but wasn't Ramadan 2 years ago around the time Benji lost his father? He may have been wanting to observe the fast more strictly on that account; he may just be more devout than other Muslim footballers.

Whatever, i'd still back Hughes to be more likely to find a mutually acceptable approach to the situation than Collins.

Don't know about Sol - though I'd expect him to be a Muslim. How 'observant' he is (in view of certain allegations in the gutter press today) - you'd have to ask him.

Crazyhorse
18-08-2009, 02:17 PM
I think the problem arises as some Muslims choose to strictly observe Sawm (fasting) during Ramadan which means not allowing anything to pass their lips during daylight hours - including water. That doesn't exactly go very well with playing a 90-minute, strenuous, game of football.

This has probably been asked a number of times before, but is Sol Bamba a practicing Muslim?

I think LiverpoolHibs is right here the issue for Moslems (as for most religions) is one of interpretation in respect to these obligations. There are many reasons why the rules can be relaxed (travelling, illness, menstruation, pregnancy etc). However many Moslems (not just the Islamist extremists) will not drink water and that would cause a problem for a professional footballer with kick-off times at 3pm in the UK.

Sol's name is Muslim but he was born in France and grew up there so whether he engages in the 5 pillars of Islam who knows? I imagine it would be quite a different upbringing to Benji and Zemmama.

I'm just glad we have all three of them because in terms of talent they are probably our best players (along with Derek).

jgl07
18-08-2009, 02:33 PM
That's where an expert nutritionist would come in. The ONLY two Muslim players who I know of who have had a 'problem' during Ramadan are Benji and Zouma. And I'm VERY unclear as to whether THEY had the problem, or the coaching staff had the problem.

And when did Zemmama have a problem? I can recall Benji having problems but not Zemmama.

Morrocco don't see it as a problem. They have a World Cup/African Nations Cup qualifier against Togo scheduled for 6 September.

RoYO!
18-08-2009, 04:33 PM
Professional Islamic athletes the world over manage fine during Ramadan. Collins made far too much of it, IMO.

v good point :agree:

majorhibs
19-08-2009, 01:00 AM
I think LiverpoolHibs is right here the issue for Moslems (as for most religions) is one of interpretation in respect to these obligations. There are many reasons why the rules can be relaxed (travelling, illness, menstruation, pregnancy etc). However many Moslems (not just the Islamist extremists) will not drink water and that would cause a problem for a professional footballer with kick-off times at 3pm in the UK.

Sol's name is Muslim but he was born in France and grew up there so whether he engages in the 5 pillars of Islam who knows? I imagine it would be quite a different upbringing to Benji and Zemmama.

I'm just glad we have all three of them because in terms of talent they are probably our best players (along with Derek).

My A.D. in India is a practicing Moslem who observes Ramadam, but as he tells me when he is at work he will eat twice a day outwith his normal fasting times and he will also drink water because to do otherwise would be foolish and could lead to health problems, and would also mean he was not fulfilling his employment duties and would make him worry about keeping his job. However as soon as he is away from work he folllows the rules to the letter. Far as I can see this "story" is serving the gutter press well, upsetting a team and couple of players who could go on this season to do a bit damage to the "establishment" teams and therefore upsetting the SFA, how about all at Hibernian FC just let the Morrocan lads get on with their thing while still playing them and see where it gets us in the league, I think they will have lived with their traditions long enough to handle them appropriately, and this team might just have something about it which has the so called "powers that be" (read the old firm fixers for themselves) a wee bit scared and trying to do some damage limitation seeing as theyre skint and cant break up our team anymore by signing our best players, then whingeing about uncompetitine leagues.

Dashing Bob S
19-08-2009, 03:15 AM
I think LiverpoolHibs is right here the issue for Moslems (as for most religions) is one of interpretation in respect to these obligations. There are many reasons why the rules can be relaxed (travelling, illness, menstruation, pregnancy etc). However many Moslems (not just the Islamist extremists) will not drink water and that would cause a problem for a professional footballer with kick-off times at 3pm in the UK.

Sol's name is Muslim but he was born in France and grew up there so whether he engages in the 5 pillars of Islam who knows? I imagine it would be quite a different upbringing to Benji and Zemmama.

I'm just glad we have all three of them because in terms of talent they are probably our best players (along with Derek).

Derek doesn't practice Islam too strictly though.

NB Hibby
19-08-2009, 10:50 AM
Derek doesn't practice Islam too strictly though.

But I've heard he likes to go out on the ran-dan.:wink:

Hibeebob
19-08-2009, 10:59 AM
Ker Ching.

I liked that NB.:top marks

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19-08-2009, 12:51 PM
And when did Zemmama have a problem? I can recall Benji having problems but not Zemmama.

Morrocco don't see it as a problem. They have a World Cup/African Nations Cup qualifier against Togo scheduled for 6 September.


I honestly don't think either player would have had a problem 2 years ago if it had been dealt with sensitively.

IIRC it was announced by the manager that Benji wouldn't be playing at all and Zouma would only be used as a sub during Ramadan.

I don't think there'll be any problem this year. Fuss about nothing. :rolleyes:

PotsyHibee
19-08-2009, 02:05 PM
I've played 5's with guys who are fasting during Ramadan and it definitely has an impact I'm afraid. If you haven't taken on fluids for hours and then take part in a strenuous activity like footy you run the risk of muscle injuries, JC looked into this and decided it was in Benji's (and Hibs) best interests to be careful with him.

As far as I've been told the only time you can opt out of fasting is if you are ill.

The guys can still train and maybe even play but they will have to be very careful.

hibbybrian
19-08-2009, 02:33 PM
As far as I've been told the only time you can opt out of fasting is if you are ill.

You are permitted not to fast when you are traveling outside your place of residence (town) - there are differing opinions on this though as some say the journey must be over a distance approx equal to 50 miles whist some do not hold to this requirement. In this case, the day of fasting is to be made up after ramadan.

It may be that Benji holds the stricter viewpoint whilst Zoomer may not, hence why Benji finds it tougher to participate in footie during Ramadan. :dunno:

Cocaine&Caviar
19-08-2009, 03:04 PM
Is it everyone in the Muslim religion that practices this? It doesnt seem to be a problem with other people of that faith in football, such as Van Persie, Ribery, K. Toure, Y Toure, A. Traore, Anelka, Ibrahimovic, Kanoute, Eboue, Benzema, Nasri, Ben Arfa, and Sagna?

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19-08-2009, 03:06 PM
You are permitted not to fast when you are traveling outside your place of residence (town) - there are differing opinions on this though as some say the journey must be over a distance approx equal to 50 miles whist some do not hold to this requirement. In this case, the day of fasting is to be made up after ramadan.

It may be that Benji holds the stricter viewpoint whilst Zoomer may not, hence why Benji finds it tougher to participate in footie during Ramadan. :dunno:


I think Yogi will sort this out with Benji.

Dashing Bob S
19-08-2009, 04:11 PM
Send him to live with Deeks. If they combined lifestyles it might be ideal for both.

Great idea for a life swap reality TV show.

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19-08-2009, 04:59 PM
Send him to live with Deeks. If they combined lifestyles it might be ideal for both.

Great idea for a life swap reality TV show.


I think they've already made a film about it, Bob - "The Odd Couple"? :wink:

Golden Bear
20-08-2009, 09:28 AM
Encouraging quote from Yogi in today's Daily Express:-

"I don't see it as a problem. I'll see what we can do for them to be fresh and at their best.

I've worked with players who have been observing Ramadan in the past and there are certain rules within it that you can follow that make sure you are getting your food in"

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20-08-2009, 09:31 AM
http://sport.scotsman.com/hibernianfc/Hughes-says-Moroccan-duo-won39t.5570957.jp

I see 'Neutral Observer' reckons they'll need to 'take in plenty of fluids just before dawn.

Well, that worked for Willie Hamilton and George Best, right enough. :devil:

Golden Bear
20-08-2009, 09:37 AM
http://sport.scotsman.com/hibernianfc/Hughes-says-Moroccan-duo-won39t.5570957.jp

I see 'Neutral Observer' reckons they'll need to 'take in plenty of fluids just before dawn.

Well, that worked for Willie Hamilton and George Best, right enough. :devil:

Not to mention a modern day hero!

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20-08-2009, 09:42 AM
Not to mention a modern day hero!


I wouldn't go there, myself. :greengrin

Just as well a certain Jambo Juggernaut isnae Muslim, though - McDonalds and Burger King both bankrupt in a month....

Jack
20-08-2009, 10:42 AM
The odds of Sol being a Muslim because his background is Cote D'Ivoire / France isn't quite right.

The split in Cote D'Ivoire is; Muslim 38.6%, Christian 32.8%. France is described as being 90% Roman Catholic and 5% Muslim.

So the law of odds says he’s not Muslim. Sods law says he is!

Dinkydoo
20-08-2009, 11:41 AM
I hope not.

As said previously there isn't really a reason as to why he should be unfit unless he's taking Sawn to the extreme as people haqve already highlighted that these rules can be relaxed in the respect of common sence depending on the circumstance. Playing 90 minutes of football without one single drink isn't common sence.

Lets just hope that Zuma and Benji both approach this in a diplomatic manner.

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20-08-2009, 01:06 PM
I hope not.

As said previously there isn't really a reason as to why he should be unfit unless he's taking Sawn to the extreme as people haqve already highlighted that these rules can be relaxed in the respect of common sence depending on the circumstance. Playing 90 minutes of football without one single drink isn't common sence.

Lets just hope that Zuma and Benji both approach this in a diplomatic manner.


There will be no problem.

I don't think Zouma will make difficulties - Benji either. The Great Benji Ramadan Affair remains the ONLY occasion Ramadan has been seen as a problem for a Muslim professional footballer - in my recollection, at least.

I'm firmly of the opinion that if there was an 'attitude' problem 2 years ago it was with an individual who appeared to approach every issue on the basis of 'my way or no way' - John Collins.

jgl07
20-08-2009, 01:17 PM
Anyway forget about Ramadan. There is a much more serious threat in the African nations Cup.

This is likely to rule out Benji, Zemmama, and Bamba for most, if not all of January assuming that Morocco and Ivory Coast Qualify (both of which seem likely) and they are called up (also a strong possibility for all three).

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20-08-2009, 01:26 PM
Anyway forget about Ramadan. There is a much more serious threat in the African nations Cup.

This is likely to rule out Benji, Zemmama, and Bamba for most, if not all of January assuming that Morocco and Ivory Coast Qualify (both of which seem likely) and they are called up (also a strong possibility for all three).


Thank you for cheering us all up. :boo hoo:

Crazyhorse
20-08-2009, 01:43 PM
The odds of Sol being a Muslim because his background is Cote D'Ivoire / France isn't quite right.

The split in Cote D'Ivoire is; Muslim 38.6%, Christian 32.8%. France is described as being 90% Roman Catholic and 5% Muslim.

So the law of odds says he’s not Muslim. Sods law says he is!


His first name is Muslim. So that clearly is his background.

However Cote D'Ivoire and certainly France are fairly relaxed when it come to religious observance (in France its virtually non-existent). A lot of the media coverage in the West represents the whole Muslim world as if they live like the people do in Saudi Arabia.

Occasionally you used to hear of footballers who wouldn't play on a Sunday but these were members of small sects and not representative of Christendom as a whole. So people can always take things more strictly than others. However as far as I know there is a strict injunction in Islam not to harm yourself during fasting.

Luna_Asylum
20-08-2009, 02:03 PM
His first name is Muslim. So that clearly is his background.

However Cote D'Ivoire and certainly France are fairly relaxed when it come to religious observance (in France its virtually non-existent). A lot of the media coverage in the West represents the whole Muslim world as if they live like the people do in Saudi Arabia.

Occasionally you used to hear of footballers who wouldn't play on a Sunday but these were members of small sects and not representative of Christendom as a whole. So people can always take things more strictly than others. However as far as I know there is a strict injunction in Islam not to harm yourself during fasting.

The rules for observance of ramadan are the same in Cote D'Ivoire, France, Saudi Arabia and everywhere else

Crazyhorse
20-08-2009, 06:02 PM
The rules for observance of ramadan are the same in Cote D'Ivoire, France, Saudi Arabia and everywhere else

I think you have misunderstood what I wrote. Levels of observance of Ramadan differ widely in different countries. If you visit Turkey next week, as I intend to do, you will find that approx 50% of the population will not be fasting. They still consider themselves to be Muslims. The many Turks who eat pork consider themselves to be Muslims too despite it being forbidden in the Quran.

Anyway all I really care about is Hibs players of any religion or none doing their best for the team.