Publicans - Anyone sick of their whinging?

[Woody1985]

I know I'm probably gonna get shot down here but tough.....

Is anyone else sick of publicans whinging about how supermarkets can sell alcohol cheaper?

Take the ****ing hint. If we wanted to drink in your pubs we would but the simple fact of the matter is that most of the pubs are overpriced and are *****. That's why we don't come.

If your lager never tasted like watered down pish and you never got charged £2 odds for a nip of smirnoff when a bottle sets you back £12 and you get 30 odd nips out it then we might consider coming back. Instead, the majority of you have taken custom for granted by serving up ***** for years.

Don't try and force us back into your pubs by making the supermarket sell drink at your vastly over inflated prices.

Yes, I do understand that you have overheads to meet, rent, mortgage, staff, electricity, water, outlay on product etc but the fact is I don't want to pay £3 for a bottle of Miller for the priviledge of sitting in your pub.

I'd rather spend a reasonable amount of money on 24 cans and get a couple of mates round. The supermarkets are already driving up their prices, whether that be from government, council or publican pressure, I don't know but I know that it's pissing me off.

Publicans and government GTF or lower the prices in pubs and increase quality and I will come, I promise you that. If I could go into town or my local with a score / 30 quid do you not think I'd rather do that than sit in the house?

I know there will be other factors that mean you need to set a lower limit on what you can sell at to make a living but those are fights you should be having with your distributors, your councils, your landlords, mortgage companies instead of trying the shaft the very people you want back in your pubs.

:grr::grr::grr::grr::grr:

Rant over. Where's the relief smilie? :greengrin

Moanthecabbage has posted the below elsewhere:


After reading the EEN today about this http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/topstories/Capital-set-for-ban-on.5562723.jp#4328944 (http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/topstories/Capital-set-for-ban-on.5562723.jp#4328944)

I wa a little annoyed so have completed an online petition please feel free to sign it

http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?Edindoc1 (http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?Edindoc1)

[MSK]

I know I'm probably gonna get shot down here but tough.....

Is anyone else sick of publicans whinging about how supermarkets can sell alcohol cheaper?

Take the ****ing hint. If we wanted to drink in your pubs we would but the simple fact of the matter is that most of the pubs are overpriced and are *****. That's why we don't come.

If your lager never tasted like watered down pish and you never got charged £2 odds for a nip of smirnoff when a bottle sets you back £12 and you get 30 odd nips out it then we might consider coming back. Instead, the majority of you have taken custom for granted by serving up ***** for years.

Don't try and force us back into your pubs by making the supermarket sell drink at your vastly over inflated prices.

Yes, I do understand that you have overheads to meet, rent, mortgage, staff, electricity, water, outlay on product etc but the fact is I don't want to pay £3 for a bottle of Miller for the priviledge of sitting in your pub.

I'd rather spend a reasonable amount of money on 24 cans and get a couple of mates round. The supermarkets are already driving up their prices, whether that be from government, council or publican pressure, I don't know but I know that it's pissing me off.

Publicans and government GTF or lower the prices in pubs and increase quality and I will come, I promise you that. If I could go into town or my local with a score / 30 quid do you not think I'd rather do that than sit in the house?

I know there will be other factors that mean you need to set a lower limit on what you can sell at to make a living but those are fights you should be having with your distributors, your councils, your landlords, mortgage companies instead of trying the shaft the very people you want back in your pubs.

:grr::grr::grr::grr::grr:

Rant over. Where's the relief smilie? :greengrinIf i was gonna blame anyone firstly i would blame the government ..they impose the taxes on the beer etc..the publican has no choice but to raise the price of their products..dog eat dog im afraid..

Many years back my driver wi the brewery (Tennents) went to visit a brewery in Sheffield...they asked him how much he thought it costs to make a barrel of lager (36g - almost 300 pints)....if i recall correctly it cost 5p per 36 gallon..the rest ..well do the sums ...:wink:

[Woody1985]

If i was gonna blame anyone firstly i would blame the government ..they impose the taxes on the beer etc..the publican has no choice but to raise the price of their products..dog eat dog im afraid..

Many years back my driver wi the brewery (Tennents) went to visit a brewery in Sheffield...they asked him how much he thought it costs to make a barrel of lager (36g - almost 300 pints)....if i recall correctly it cost 5p per 36 gallon..the rest ..well do the sums ...:wink:

This is my point regarding them having a minium price to sell at. However, their attitude towards the supermarkets is the main thing that gets me.

It's like a 10 year who can't have a toy and decides to destroy it so no one else can play with it.

Take the fight to the government and stay away from my supermarket lager. I realise there are other social issues related to cheap supermarket lager but the pubs don't give a flying **** about that. If there's going to be drink fuelled violence I'm certain they'd rather it was caused by drink they were able to make a profit on.

[Wembley67]

Aye but Woody you can go to your local for £20, you can still have approx 6 pints which isn't that bad going unless your going out to get smashed and not just for the social occassion.

Or do you mean that you can't go out and get reeking with £20 odd quid?

[Woody1985]

Aye but Woody you can go to your local for £20, you can still have approx 6 pints which isn't that bad going unless your going out to get smashed and not just for the social occassion.

Or do you mean that you can't go out and get reeking with £20 odd quid?

Fair enough re the local, you can go and have a few pints there for a chilled out night. But the same still applies to expensive pishy pints and overpriced vodka.

I personally go into the southside area when going for a drink rather than my local. Personally I tend to go out around 6:30pm and stay out til either 1 or 3 when I do go out. I don't go out with the intention of getting smashed but sometimes that can be the case when you're drinking for 5-9 hours. 20 quid won't make it til ten/eleven(ish) and you then need to go home whilst all your mates are still out or take 50/60 quid out wi you.

Going over the door when you consider getting a bus there and back will set you back £2.40 (more for a nightbus) so you're down to £17.60. A smoker buying ten fags is another £2.80-£3.00 down. Now down to £14.60 or so by the time you've even crossed the door. Would people seriously go on a night out or along to the pub with their mates with 14 quid on a Fri or Sat night?

I know the pubs can't be to blame for fags and buses etc but are they considering the overall price of a night out when they're whinging that no one is in their pubs?

Maybe people can't afford the extra few quid for buses, taxis, a packet of fags and some quick scran when they're out to get to their pubs yet they want to penalise those same people by starting a campaign against the supermarkets to increase drink prices. Those same people will still not be able to go to the pub because they can't afford the overall night out. Therefore, the publicans aren't going to make that much more.

This then leads you back onto the social benefits i.e someone might only be able to drink once a fortnight. But again, the publicans don't give a **** about that .

[MSK]

This is my point regarding them having a minium price to sell at. However, their attitude towards the supermarkets is the main thing that gets me.

It's like a 10 year who can't have a toy and decides to destroy it so no one else can play with it.

Take the fight to the government and stay away from my supermarket lager. I realise there are other social issues related to cheap supermarket lager but the pubs don't give a flying **** about that. If there's going to be drink fuelled violence I'm certain they'd rather it was caused by drink they were able to make a profit on.Supermarkets are on a win win though ..for a start they most probably will have national accounts as do Kevin Doyle etc whereby the more they buy the cheaper they get it ...look at that on a scale compared to pubs struggling to make a living..

An example...i cant name the pub but they got 100 kegs of Tennents lager per week...those kegs were nearing the end of their "dates" so the customer got them at a knockdown rate & no sale or retun...those kegs were sold..absolutley no doubt & because of the high barrelage they could afford to pass the discount onto the customer & still make a healthy profit..

Thats all good, however yer wee local cant compete at that end of the market ..yer local who goes through a dozen kegs a week will be on its knee's existing on a peanuts discount...that however wont matter to the pub above nor the supermarkets ..

[MSK]

Fair enough re the local, you can go and have a few pints there for a chilled out night. But the same still applies to expensive pishy pints and overpriced vodka.

I personally go into the southside area when going for a drink rather than my local. Personally I tend to go out around 6:30pm and stay out til either 1 or 3 when I do go out. I don't go out with the intention of getting smashed but sometimes that can be the case when you're drinking for 5-9 hours. 20 quid won't make it til ten/eleven(ish) and you then need to go home whilst all your mates are still out or take 50/60 quid out wi you.

Going over the door when you consider getting a bus there and back will set you back £2.40 (more for a nightbus) so you're down to £17.60. A smoker buying ten fags is another £2.80-£3.00 down. Now down to £14.60 or so by the time you've even crossed the door. Would people seriously go on a night out or along to the pub with their mates with 14 quid on a Fri or Sat night?

I know the pubs can't be to blame for fags and buses etc but are they considering the overall price of a night out when they're whinging that no one is in their pubs?

Maybe people can't afford the extra few quid for buses, taxis, a packet of fags and some quick scran when they're out to get to their pubs yet they want to penalise those same people by starting a campaign against the supermarkets to increase drink prices. Those same people will still not be able to go to the pub because they can't afford the overall night out. Therefore, the publicans aren't going to make that much more.

This then leads you back onto the social benefits i.e someone might only be able to drink once a fortnight. But again, the publicans don't give a **** about that .

---------- Post added at 01:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:56 PM ----------



Fair enough re the local, you can go and have a few pints there for a chilled out night. But the same still applies to expensive pishy pints and overpriced vodka.

I personally go into the southside area when going for a drink rather than my local. Personally I tend to go out around 6:30pm and stay out til either 1 or 3 when I do go out. I don't go out with the intention of getting smashed but sometimes that can be the case when you're drinking for 5-9 hours. 20 quid won't make it til ten/eleven(ish) and you then need to go home whilst all your mates are still out or take 50/60 quid out wi you.

Going over the door when you consider getting a bus there and back will set you back £2.40 (more for a nightbus) so you're down to £17.60. A smoker buying ten fags is another £2.80-£3.00 down. Now down to £14.60 or so by the time you've even crossed the door. Would people seriously go on a night out or along to the pub with their mates with 14 quid on a Fri or Sat night?

I know the pubs can't be to blame for fags and buses etc but are they considering the overall price of a night out when they're whinging that no one is in their pubs?

Maybe people can't afford the extra few quid for buses, taxis, a packet of fags and some quick scran when they're out to get to their pubs yet they want to penalise those same people by starting a campaign against the supermarkets to increase drink prices. Those same people will still not be able to go to the pub because they can't afford the overall night out. Therefore, the publicans aren't going to make that much more.

This then leads you back onto the social benefits i.e someone might only be able to drink once a fortnight. But again, the publicans don't give a **** about that.Again you blame the Publicans ....what would you suggest a Publican does about this then Woody ...?

[Killiehibbie]

Don't blame the publicans. I've seen the books for a few pubs and believe me they are not ripping anyone off with their prices. Supermarkets have been known to loss lead drink. I remember reading a while ago one mans view that the breweries would be quite happy to sell all their beer through supermarkets as long as they sold the same volume.

[MSK]

Don't blame the publicans. I've seen the books for a few pubs and believe me they are not ripping anyone off with their prices. Supermarkets have been known to loss lead drink. I remember reading a while ago one mans view that the breweries would be quite happy to sell all their beer through supermarkets as long as they sold the same volume.Im sure a few years ago major breweries used to push their premium lagers to supermarkets but they were re-branded & discounted to push the sales ..i can remember "Charger" being one good "seller" in Asda a few years back , Kestral too....im not 100% sure here but Federation used to do a lager branded Asda lager ..that sold for about 17p a can ...pee water but all the same good for boosting the stocks at parties ...:greengrin

[Jack]

If i was gonna blame anyone firstly i would blame the government ..they impose the taxes on the beer etc..the publican has no choice but to raise the price of their products..dog eat dog im afraid..

Cant agree with you on that bit [notso]happyhibbie :wink:. There will be taxes on all the drinks and at the same level per pint/bottle or whatever. So whether its a pint in the pub or a pint bought in a supermarket, the amount of tax will be the same

As mentioned earlier on it’s the buying power of the supermarket chains who can bully the breweries into lower prices as well as using booze as a loss leader. So in many ways its your own supermarkets that are selling at a false price forcing the ever increasing differential.

Then you have the mega pubs, who as mentioned earlier, can shift huge amounts of booze and again get good deals from the breweries. Some do and some don’t pass this on to the punter.

Then there are the dying local bars who have no option to buy at the price dictated to by the brewers, no doubt in some way subsidising the supermarkets and mega pubs as they gasp for their last breath before going under.

So if the mega pubs and supermarkets were to sell at a normal price then the price in the smaller pubs might come down as income to the breweries goes up from the mega pubs and supermarkets and a sort of equilibrium comes about.

Nah! Nae chance the profits of the breweries, supermarkets and mega pubs will just increase.


************************************


Personally I would welcome home drinking to be discouraged but not so much that it becomes unaffordable.

A lot of the social problems associated with drinking doesn’t come from those who have been in the pub all night where the amount of pishedness a punter is in is [allegedly] monitored by the bar staff. Sometimes its hard to believe it is illegal to serve someone who the bar staff consider has had too much. Most is from those who tank up at home, on cheap booze, then hit the town, then a few of the mates, then some random stranger and then the nurse who tries to sew them back together again.

IMO if drinking at home wasn’t as cheap and drinking out wasn’t expensive and the law of the land was used on those who get out of hand, we wouldn’t have half the problems we have.

[stu in nottingham]

A different aspect of the problems that pubs are going through is that we may lose some real gems over the coming years.

It's fair to say that some pubs have not made (or have been unable to make) significant improvements for the customer and those places arguably have all they have coming to them. On the other hand there are many that have served a local community for decades or even hundreds of years. Thre are also those of great historical interest that may be lost as inns forever. I for one think this would be a tragedy. Pubs can be part of our history and fabric of the society they exist in.

There's a good example in the city I live in. The Flying Horse Hotel in the city centre dated back to 1483. Old enough to be out on it's own, so to speak. :wink: It's fate? Now an 'upmarket' shopping arcade (that no one uses).

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/57/213956621_f7eeabfff5.jpg?v=0

[MSK]

Cant agree with you on that bit [notso]happyhibbie :wink:. There will be taxes on all the drinks and at the same level per pint/bottle or whatever. So whether its a pint in the pub or a pint bought in a supermarket, the amount of tax will be the same

As mentioned earlier on it’s the buying power of the supermarket chains who can bully the breweries into lower prices as well as using booze as a loss leader. So in many ways its your own supermarkets that are selling at a false price forcing the ever increasing differential.

Then you have the mega pubs, who as mentioned earlier, can shift huge amounts of booze and again get good deals from the breweries. Some do and some don’t pass this on to the punter.

Then there are the dying local bars who have no option to buy at the price dictated to by the brewers, no doubt in some way subsidising the supermarkets and mega pubs as they gasp for their last breath before going under.

So if the mega pubs and supermarkets were to sell at a normal price then the price in the smaller pubs might come down as income to the breweries goes up from the mega pubs and supermarkets and a sort of equilibrium comes about.

Nah! Nae chance the profits of the breweries, supermarkets and mega pubs will just increase.


************************************


Personally I would welcome home drinking to be discouraged but not so much that it becomes unaffordable.

A lot of the social problems associated with drinking doesn’t come from those who have been in the pub all night where the amount of pishedness a punter is in is [allegedly] monitored by the bar staff. Sometimes its hard to believe it is illegal to serve someone who the bar staff consider has had too much. Most is from those who tank up at home, on cheap booze, then hit the town, then a few of the mates, then some random stranger and then the nurse who tries to sew them back together again.

IMO if drinking at home wasn’t as cheap and drinking out wasn’t expensive and the law of the land was used on those who get out of hand, we wouldn’t have half the problems we have.Beer etc Jack ...i kinda thought the etc would have covered the "all" drinks ...:wink:

Anyway..a few good points mentioned....i remember a few years back when these "super" pubs were coming into town folk feared the worse, certainly by my own experiences they are actually cheaper to drink in than my local miners club !!!..i thought wi me drinking in a club i would get decent fare ...nope ..

Its sad (as Stu mentioned)..local hostelries are going to the wall now, i certainly saw that trend when the big brewers started buying the busy "shops"..the Right Wing & the Sheeps Heid being prime examples ..the working mans pub like the Maulsford (Danderhall) slowly dying a desperate death..

The Right Wing...i remember going back years, the place was mobbed weekend out weekend in, nowt fancy, maybe darts & a pool table wi the telly on in the background..no fancy Dan beers/lagers or bottled pish..an owner or manager that was a mans man..no the robots they seem to have replaced them with..

You are correct though Jack ..i shouldnt just blame the government...Bass Brewers/Tennents Taverns...S&N etc were all party to the demise of the good local boozer, a lot of classic local pubs were stripped of character by the introduction of premium/imported beers etc...installing kitchens..taking away the darts boards/ pool tables & replacing them wi comfy sofa's & plant pots ....dare utter a word of contempt & yer oot ...the robot says ...

Ps- Im not saying all pubs are run by robot management & no doubt there are still some well run establishments however throughout the years prices aside there has been a dramatic demise of the guid auld spit & sawdust boozers ...

[Woody1985]

Again you blame the Publicans ....what would you suggest a Publican does about this then Woody ...?

That wasn't my point. My point is that publicans are trying to use social issues to back up their ideas to get more people in pubs and save their trades.

Now I understand someone saving their livelihood but they're not going to see any real benefit from it IMO if the supermarkets do put prices up. As I say, it just means that people who couldn't afford to go out before in a situation where they can't even choose to stay in and have a drink.

As per the above, I know there are other factors involved but my main beef is with the publicans trying to piggy back on social issue when the fact is that most of the pubs that I've noticed shutting down have been *****holes with poor quality and overpriced.

Examples on one street.

1/4 gill. Now revamped. I suspect someone else took over.
The little green pub on the corner near Dominos at Clerk St. Shut down for ages and is now revamped.
The Southern Bar. Turned it into some poncy student joint and then shut down. ***** with no atmosphere.
The Ale House - Under threat. *****hole.

I've yet to see one decent pub go out of business. Maybe there are some.

[Chuckie]

Beer etc Jack ...i kinda thought the etc would have covered the "all" drinks ...:wink:

Anyway..a few good points mentioned....i remember a few years back when these "super" pubs were coming into town folk feared the worse, certainly by my own experiences they are actually cheaper to drink in than my local miners club !!!..i thought wi me drinking in a club i would get decent fare ...nope ..

Its sad (as Stu mentioned)..local hostelries are going to the wall now, i certainly saw that trend when the big brewers started buying the busy "shops"..the Right Wing & the Sheeps Heid being prime examples ..the working mans pub like the Maulsford (Danderhall) slowly dying a desperate death..

The Right Wing...i remember going back years, the place was mobbed weekend out weekend in, nowt fancy, maybe darts & a pool table wi the telly on in the background..no fancy Dan beers/lagers or bottled pish..an owner or manager that was a mans man..no the robots they seem to have replaced them with..

You are correct though Jack ..i shouldnt just blame the government...Bass Brewers/Tennents Taverns...S&N etc were all party to the demise of the good local boozer, a lot of classic local pubs were stripped of character by the introduction of premium/imported beers etc...installing kitchens..taking away the darts boards/ pool tables & replacing them wi comfy sofa's & plant pots ....dare utter a word of contempt & yer oot ...the robot says ...

Ps- Im not saying all pubs are run by robot management & no doubt there are still some well run establishments however throughout the years prices aside there has been a dramatic demise of the guid auld spit & sawdust boozers ...

Well said brother..

:top marks

[J-C]

I know I'm probably gonna get shot down here but tough.....

Is anyone else sick of publicans whinging about how supermarkets can sell alcohol cheaper?

Take the ****ing hint. If we wanted to drink in your pubs we would but the simple fact of the matter is that most of the pubs are overpriced and are *****. That's why we don't come.

If your lager never tasted like watered down pish and you never got charged £2 odds for a nip of smirnoff when a bottle sets you back £12 and you get 30 odd nips out it then we might consider coming back. Instead, the majority of you have taken custom for granted by serving up ***** for years.

Don't try and force us back into your pubs by making the supermarket sell drink at your vastly over inflated prices.

Yes, I do understand that you have overheads to meet, rent, mortgage, staff, electricity, water, outlay on product etc but the fact is I don't want to pay £3 for a bottle of Miller for the priviledge of sitting in your pub.

I'd rather spend a reasonable amount of money on 24 cans and get a couple of mates round. The supermarkets are already driving up their prices, whether that be from government, council or publican pressure, I don't know but I know that it's pissing me off.

Publicans and government GTF or lower the prices in pubs and increase quality and I will come, I promise you that. If I could go into town or my local with a score / 30 quid do you not think I'd rather do that than sit in the house?

I know there will be other factors that mean you need to set a lower limit on what you can sell at to make a living but those are fights you should be having with your distributors, your councils, your landlords, mortgage companies instead of trying the shaft the very people you want back in your pubs.

:grr::grr::grr::grr::grr:

Rant over. Where's the relief smilie? :greengrin


I used to be in the bar trade and I must admit most pubs are now vastly overpriced. yes you do have to have a mark up to cover running costs, small profits etc but today they are way too excessive.
There are 26 nips in a 70oz bottle, trade price buying it in cases around £7 a bottle, £3 per nip £71 profit per bottle. We understand they have to pay staff, bills and make a wee profit but we can't bear greed and then when they moan it's makes us even more angry.

[MSK]

That wasn't my point. My point is that publicans are trying to use social issues to back up their ideas to get more people in pubs and save their trades.

Now I understand someone saving their livelihood but they're not going to see any real benefit from it IMO if the supermarkets do put prices up. As I say, it just means that people who couldn't afford to go out before in a situation where they can't even choose to stay in and have a drink.

As per the above, I know there are other factors involved but my main beef is with the publicans trying to piggy back on social issue when the fact is that most of the pubs that I've noticed shutting down have been *****holes with poor quality and overpriced.

Examples on one street.

1/4 gill. Now revamped. I suspect someone else took over.
The little green pub on the corner near Dominos at Clerk St. Shut down for ages and is now revamped.
The Southern Bar. Turned it into some poncy student joint and then shut down. ***** with no atmosphere.
The Ale House - Under threat. *****hole.

I've yet to see one decent pub go out of business. Maybe there are some.Its not just about prices though Woody...its also about social change..society has changed...peoples eating & drinking habits change too...the folk who like to sit in comfort will pay for that comfort...looking around Edinburgh/Leith nowadays & you will see bars packed out....folk sitting drinking outside..its a different way of life now, not my choice mind you..

Greedy Publicans is nothing new though im afraid...watering down spirits etc happened a long time ago & still happens now....the famous old trick was de-gassing the kegs/barrels & sticking in a few pints of water so they could make a few bob....cheeky monkeys ...:greengrin

[stu in nottingham]

In some ways the changes have been for the better though mate. I'm a fan of traditional pubs, the ones I drink in here tend to be very old ones - sometimes hundreds of years old, but I'll no longer sit in some hovel like I would have done years ago. People travel more these days and enjoy an al fresco drink now, like they've done on holiday maybe - let alone the smokers who are forced out there

It's an decent point that Woody about the bad pubs tending to be the ones going to the wall. I have generally found this to be true but by no means always. It's curious how some pubs have their 'day' too. The nearest pub to me, The White Hart, was in my youth the largest taker of Mitchell & Butler beers (yes I know!) in the whole of he Midlands. It was difficult to even shoe-horn yourself in the front door - let alone get to the bar. A suburban pub that was busier and trendier than any city-centre bar. It's now boarded up with three foot-high grass surrounding it.

[Phil D. Rolls]

The pub chains are mercilessly screwing their tenants, forcing them to pay through the nose for products that the breweries (who are also the pub chains) sell to supermarkets for a fraction of the price.

[ArabHibee]

Any of you thought about giving it up? :duck:

[Viva_Palmeiras]

One thing that always puzzled me...

If we are trying to promote sensible drinking, why is there such an INSANE mark-up on soft-drinks. Publicans - over to you, no tax excuses there...

[woodythehibee]

One thing that always puzzled me...

If we are trying to promote sensible drinking, why is there such an INSANE mark-up on soft-drinks. Publicans - over to you, no tax excuses there...

got charged £1.50 for can of irn bru in a pub the pther day. outrageous. it was also one of the "mulit-pack" cans that should not be sold separately.

I think the new law that comes into force in September states that soft drinks must be more reasonably priced.

[Removed]

got charged £1.50 for can of irn bru in a pub the pther day. outrageous. it was also one of the "mulit-pack" cans that should not be sold separately.

I think the new law that comes into force in September states that soft drinks must be more reasonably priced.

That would be good but who's going to enforce it?

Anyone from the club looking in here - BTG, absolute rip off for soft drinks :grr:

[Jack]

Any of you thought about giving it up? :duck:

No. I really enjoy going out and while I'm not so well and on drugs I will still go out and drink softies.


One thing that always puzzled me...

If we are trying to promote sensible drinking, why is there such an INSANE mark-up on soft-drinks. Publicans - over to you, no tax excuses there...

Absolutely right its outrageous. However in my locals a pint of say coke will be a quid or less or even sometimes free!

[Barney McGrew]

There are 26 nips in a 70oz bottle, trade price buying it in cases around £7 a bottle, £3 per nip £71 profit per bottle

Your figures are quite a bit out there.

For example, a case of 6 x 1.5 litre bottles of Smirnoff will cost around £145 inc VAT, and you get 60 25ml measures to the bottle. So cost price per 25ml nip is about 40p. Even off a 1.5 litre bottle, to get £71 profit you'd need to be charging in excess of £1.75 a nip.

And if you're drinking nips at £3 a go, I'd suggest you're either drinking malts all the time or spending too much of your time in George Street establishments :wink:

[Antifa Hibs]

TBH i'd much rather sit in a boozer and spend £50 as opposed to spending a tenner and staying in a house. It's the social thing I like aobut drinking, going out, having a laugh, getting talking to the barman, chatting to the pished old pensioner about the war, attempting and failing to chat up the ladies etc etc, you don't get that in the hoose.

Regarding local boozers, IMO most of them are finished, its changed days. You hear the oldies talk about how they had many a good night in such and such when they were my age etc etc etc, I wouldn't go near any of the pubs round here, i'd happily have the odd pint but never dream of spending a Friday or Saturday night. Times have changed, people have more money and wider circle of friends these days, people don't mind spending a tenner on a taxi then paying £3 a pint even though theres 5 local boozers at £2.25 a pint.

I dunno if this is a fair price or very expensive but a quick google search showed a 88 pint keg for £100, or 80p a pint, by the time you add delivery, gas, staff, insurance, lighting, mortage and other overheads, surely they can't be "ripping" us off that much?

[Barney McGrew]

I dunno if this is a fair price or very expensive but a quick google search showed a 88 pint keg for £100, or 80p a pint, by the time you add delivery, gas, staff, insurance, lighting, mortage and other overheads, surely they can't be "ripping" us off that much?

You're spot on. The average pint makes less than 10p profit for a publican once all costs are taken into consideration. Costs are ridiculous - Sky TV costs the average pub in Edinburgh around £1200 + VAT a month for instance!

Supermarkets are able to charge what they do through a combination of getting massive volume discounts through suppliers and selling it at low (often loss leading prices) to get customers in to buy the rest of their shopping instore when they're there.

[Dashing Bob S]

Fair enough re the local, you can go and have a few pints there for a chilled out night. But the same still applies to expensive pishy pints and overpriced vodka.

I personally go into the southside area when going for a drink rather than my local. Personally I tend to go out around 6:30pm and stay out til either 1 or 3 when I do go out. I don't go out with the intention of getting smashed but sometimes that can be the case when you're drinking for 5-9 hours. 20 quid won't make it til ten/eleven(ish) and you then need to go home whilst all your mates are still out or take 50/60 quid out wi you.

Going over the door when you consider getting a bus there and back will set you back £2.40 (more for a nightbus) so you're down to £17.60. A smoker buying ten fags is another £2.80-£3.00 down. Now down to £14.60 or so by the time you've even crossed the door. Would people seriously go on a night out or along to the pub with their mates with 14 quid on a Fri or Sat night?

I know the pubs can't be to blame for fags and buses etc but are they considering the overall price of a night out when they're whinging that no one is in their pubs?

Maybe people can't afford the extra few quid for buses, taxis, a packet of fags and some quick scran when they're out to get to their pubs yet they want to penalise those same people by starting a campaign against the supermarkets to increase drink prices. Those same people will still not be able to go to the pub because they can't afford the overall night out. Therefore, the publicans aren't going to make that much more.

This then leads you back onto the social benefits i.e someone might only be able to drink once a fortnight. But again, the publicans don't give a **** about that .


That is one of the best ever lines I have read on this board.

[J-C]

Your figures are quite a bit out there.

For example, a case of 6 x 1.5 litre bottles of Smirnoff will cost around £145 inc VAT, and you get 60 25ml measures to the bottle. So cost price per 25ml nip is about 40p. Even off a 1.5 litre bottle, to get £71 profit you'd need to be charging in excess of £1.75 a nip.

And if you're drinking nips at £3 a go, I'd suggest you're either drinking malts all the time or spending too much of your time in George Street establishments :wink:

Aint been in the trade for a good few years, I was only trying to show what the mark up was if a bottle was at a certain price. Obviously it all depends on the price of each bottle but I didn't have that to hand, so thought of a price. Remember there's always offers from the breweries and the more you buy the less you pay, bottles of beer are a prime example.

[Woody1985]

That is one of the best ever lines I have read on this board.

Why?

Can you not go out for 5-9 hours and not be reeking? Take it easy wi the pints, try to stay soberish to chat to burds, make sure you can get in a club by not being smashed at 1am, have a scran half way through the night etc etc

[PeeJay]

Why?

Can you not go out for 5-9 hours and not be reeking? Take it easy wi the pints, try to stay soberish to chat to burds, make sure you can get in a club by not being smashed at 1am, have a scran half way through the night etc etc

I'm probably the only one who doesn't know but what is a 'scran'???:confused:

[Woody1985]

I'm probably the only one who doesn't know but what is a 'scran'???:confused:

Something to eat. :LOL:

[PeeJay]

Something to eat. :LOL:

Cheers!

As to the OP, you surely realise Scotland is ‘officially’ the ‘sick man’ of Europe and its population the least fit in Europe. So with its serious alcohol/binge drinking problems might it not be a good idea to make alcohol more expensive rather than cheaper? Good for health reasons?
Maybe Scotland should stop allowing alcohol to be sold so cheaply in supermarkets/off-licences? Maybe it should try to make pubs and clubs places where people can “socialise” without drink/drugs being the dominating factor?
Sick man of Europe – something to be blasé about?

[Woody1985]

Cheers!

As to the OP, you surely realise Scotland is ‘officially’ the ‘sick man’ of Europe and its population the least fit in Europe. So with its serious alcohol/binge drinking problems might it not be a good idea to make alcohol more expensive rather than cheaper? Good for health reasons?
Maybe Scotland should stop allowing alcohol to be sold so cheaply in supermarkets/off-licences? Maybe it should try to make pubs and clubs places where people can “socialise” without drink/drugs being the dominating factor?
Sick man of Europe – something to be blasé about?

I appreciate the social issues relating to alcohol. My point was that publicans are bleating on about how the supermarkets are ruining their trade. They want to raise the supermarket price so it's on a level field with them. However, that will never be the case, they have all their associated costs with running a pub, supermarkets don't.

Should we make internet based businesses sell products for more because they have an advantage that they don't have property to maintain other than a warehouse, less staff etc etc etc? Internet businesses can sell for cheaper because they have less associated costs. The same with supermarkets.

As I've tried to illustrate, the people who buy from the supermarkets aren't going to be able to afford and/or want to go to the pubs.

The publicans are jumping on the issues surround alcohol in general for their own gain. The think that supermarkets raising prices will automatically mean their pubs are full again. IMHO this will not be the case due to other points I've made about overall costs of nights out, the quality of product and surroundings.

[MSK]

Cheers!

As to the OP, you surely realise Scotland is ‘officially’ the ‘sick man’ of Europe and its population the least fit in Europe. So with its serious alcohol/binge drinking problems might it not be a good idea to make alcohol more expensive rather than cheaper? Good for health reasons?
Maybe Scotland should stop allowing alcohol to be sold so cheaply in supermarkets/off-licences? Maybe it should try to make pubs and clubs places where people can “socialise” without drink/drugs being the dominating factor?
Sick man of Europe – something to be blasé about?Thats all very good Peejay but like the smoking restrictions to me this seems a rather punitive measure, why dont they target & attempt to educate people with such problems rather than simply put blanket restrictions on everyone, that appears to be the case yet again in Edinburgh.

I dont have a drink problem & neither does my wife ...we are on a low enough income as it is & occassionaly we use these cheap supermarket deals...

I personally dont think these actions will improve the "sick man of Europe"..i think they will move the problem onto another..if folk want their fix no matter what it is they will get it imo..

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Should we make internet based businesses sell products for more because they have an advantage that they don't have property to maintain other than a warehouse, less staff etc etc etc? Internet businesses can sell for cheaper because they have less associated costs. The same with supermarkets.

<SNIP>
IMHO this will not be the case due to other points I've made about overall costs of nights out, the quality of product and surroundings.

EASYPUB

Choose your options and pay accordingly.

Dispensing & Payment
- Pub is stocked with various internet-based/supermarket products
- You select your drink (range basic to premium)
- You select whether you wish a glass plain/branded (extra£)
- Items dispensed and pay or choose extras

Entertainment options (£££)
- You select your mood and provide Itunes profile from a smartcard
- You are directed to a room with the tunes/atmosphere you require or shown the door

- Extras
- Abuse and hit a bouncer
- Oagling(sp?) at burds out of your league
- Fall over and get helped from the bar
- Ralph and Huey (with free banning order)
- contact lenses projecting images on to your retina including ID of pulling opportinuty (beer google protection extra)
- Insurance options for all of the above £££££

Toilets and Pampering
Range includes:
- bog roll - sheets dispensed at 20p each
- environmental surcharge (weight based)
- unhygienic option (wash&go)
- Nigerian towel handler
- watered-down fake aftershave
- etc.

All patrons to be fitted with sensors/patches to detect happiness. You buy credits or pay on leaving depending on the levels attained.

Cure and Smiths fans, Goths not allowed.

Simples :greengrin

[Jack]

Cheers!

As to the OP, you surely realise Scotland is ‘officially’ the ‘sick man’ of Europe and its population the least fit in Europe. So with its serious alcohol/binge drinking problems might it not be a good idea to make alcohol more expensive rather than cheaper? Good for health reasons?
Maybe Scotland should stop allowing alcohol to be sold so cheaply in supermarkets/off-licences? Maybe it should try to make pubs and clubs places where people can “socialise” without drink/drugs being the dominating factor?
Sick man of Europe – something to be blasé about?

One sure way of curing Scotland’s ‘sick man of Europe’ tag would be to tow what used to be called Strathclyde into the middle of the Atlantic and sink it.

Scotland’s overall figures for health and crime and social ills and all the other things that contribute to Scotland's poor track record wouldn’t disappear but would be decimated. Plus the added bonus of the sectarian bigots and the the rest of the OF bile would sink with it.

[Woody1985]

EASYPUB

Choose your options and pay accordingly.

Dispensing & Payment
- Pub is stocked with various internet-based/supermarket products
- You select your drink (range basic to premium)
- You select whether you wish a glass plain/branded (extra£)
- Items dispensed and pay or choose extras

Entertainment options (£££)
- You select your mood and provide Itunes profile from a smartcard
- You are directed to a room with the tunes/atmosphere you require or shown the door

- Extras
- Abuse and hit a bouncer
- Oagling(sp?) at burds out of your league
- Fall over and get helped from the bar
- Ralph and Huey (with free banning order)
- contact lenses projecting images on to your retina including ID of pulling opportinuty (beer google protection extra)
- Insurance options for all of the above £££££

Toilets and Pampering
Range includes:
- bog roll - sheets dispensed at 20p each
- environmental surcharge (weight based)
- unhygienic option (wash&go)
- Nigerian towel handler
- watered-down fake aftershave
- etc.

All patrons to be fitted with sensors/patches to detect happiness. You buy credits or pay on leaving depending on the levels attained.

Cure and Smiths fans, Goths not allowed.

Simples :greengrin

Carlsberg don't do pubs... :greengrin

[MSK]

Carlsberg don't do pubs... :greengrinIf they did ...:jamboak:

[Dashing Bob S]

Why?

Can you not go out for 5-9 hours and not be reeking? Take it easy wi the pints, try to stay soberish to chat to burds, make sure you can get in a club by not being smashed at 1am, have a scran half way through the night etc etc

Ehm, yes, I can go out for 5-9 hours and do these things, but you did say 'drinking for 5-9 hours' in your post.

[Barney McGrew]

The publicans are jumping on the issues surround alcohol in general for their own gain. The think that supermarkets raising prices will automatically mean their pubs are full again. IMHO this will not be the case due to other points I've made about overall costs of nights out, the quality of product and surroundings.

As someone who deals with many different publicans on a day to day basis, you're talking nonsense when you say they automatically think their pubs will be full again if supermarkets have to put their prices up. No-one I know that works in the trade thinks that.

[Woody1985]

As someone who deals with many different publicans on a day to day basis, you're talking nonsense when you say they automatically think their pubs will be full again if supermarkets have to put their prices up. No-one I know that works in the trade thinks that.

So what are their objectives then?

Do they expect an increase in trade? Erm, yes.
Do they have anticiapted increases in revenue they expect? I suspect so.
Are they bothered that people are drinking more in the house before they go out? Erm, yes because it means they spend less in their pubs.
Are they really that bothered if there's trouble? Not as long as they're selling the drink in the first place.
Do they expect poorer people to come flocking? I'm assuming not based on what you've said re your experience.
Do they think it's fair that poorer people will be penalised by their objectives? Based on what you've said it would seem they don't care since they don't expect them in their pubs.

Like everything in this world, the poorer people are squeezed out and certain activities only available to the rich and reasonably well off i.e driving.

Should internet tyre business be forced to increase their prices because they don't need to run garages etc to fit them? You order a tyre at bare minimum price, it's delivered to your door, you take it along to a garage who'll fit it for a small sum, all in all the end result is the same but it costs you less.

A garage needs to source the tyres, order correct sizes, employ staff who are trained to fit them etc etc. Internet tyre companies don't.

People should not be forced to pay the same or similar price for something that they do not want.

As I say, 10 year olds who can't have something so break it to ensure that no one else can have it.

Edit; Another thought that's just come to my mind, more on the side of minimum pricing and not publicans as such. Do they just expect all the alkies to stop drinking because it's more expensive. When I used to deliver chinese I've been to houses where there's been bottles of mouthwash, cheap aftershave etc all over the place because these people couldn't afford a drink. I wonder what is more damaging.

[Woody1985]

Ehm, yes, I can go out for 5-9 hours and do these things, but you did say 'drinking for 5-9 hours' in your post.

Ehm, well I'll document all my nightly activities in future. When you say you're going out on the town are you so specific that you would say to someone, I'm going out socialising tonight which might include a small number of refreshing alcoholic beverages?

I just say I'm going out for a few drinks wi the boys. :confused:

I had wrote a bit of a comedy script of nightly events such as:

18:30 - Go to bar, buy pint.
18:45 - Finish first refreshing pint.
18:46 - Go for a smoke.
18:50 - Return to bar, aim to be served by hot barmaid.

Etc etc but I pushed back by accident and it all deleted. :greengrin

Edit; And anyway, if I do want to go out i.e stay in and get trashed that's up to me. It just shouldn't be publicans telling me when I do it and how much it should cost me.

[Barney McGrew]

So what are their objectives then?

Do they expect an increase in trade? Erm, yes.
Do they have anticiapted increases in revenue they expect? I suspect so.
Are they bothered that people are drinking more in the house before they go out? Erm, yes because it means they spend less in their pubs.
Are they really that bothered if there's trouble? Not as long as they're selling the drink in the first place

Their objectives are to make a living out of their profession I would have thought. The fact that supermarkets are able to sell alcohol at below cost price is one of many issues that hinder them from doing that.

The main movement within the trade right now is not directly protesting against supermarket prices anyway, it's protesting against the ridiculous tax levels that the government charges on alcohol. Taxes which currently account for around a third of the cost of a pint of beer, and which are going to increase by 2% over the rate of inflation for the next few years. Taxes which are only lower than two out of 27 EU countries. That's the reason that alcohol is so expensive, and it's a cause that IMO is worth supporting ( http://www.axethebeertax.com/default.aspx )

And BTW, your comment about them not caring if they have trouble in their pub as long as they're selling the drink in the first place is absolute nonsense.

[Dashing Bob S]

Ehm, well I'll document all my nightly activities in future. When you say you're going out on the town are you so specific that you would say to someone, I'm going out socialising tonight which might include a small number of refreshing alcoholic beverages?

I just say I'm going out for a few drinks wi the boys. :confused:

I had wrote a bit of a comedy script of nightly events such as:

18:30 - Go to bar, buy pint.
18:45 - Finish first refreshing pint.
18:46 - Go for a smoke.
18:50 - Return to bar, aim to be served by hot barmaid.

Etc etc but I pushed back by accident and it all deleted. :greengrin

Edit; And anyway, if I do want to go out i.e stay in and get trashed that's up to me. It just shouldn't be publicans telling me when I do it and how much it should cost me.

No need Woody, I just read it literally, perhaps a little silly of me, and found it highly amusing. No critique of your drinking habits intended.

And totally agree about getting trashed/not getting trashed and the role of publicans.

To me so many pubs are the drinking equivalents to 1980's football grounds - minging tips suitable for old jakeys. No wonder they go to the wall as their clientel dies off.

[Woody1985]

Their objectives are to make a living out of their profession I would have thought. The fact that supermarkets are able to sell alcohol at below cost price is one of many issues that hinder them from doing that.

The main movement within the trade right now is not directly protesting against supermarket prices anyway, it's protesting against the ridiculous tax levels that the government charges on alcohol. Taxes which currently account for around a third of the cost of a pint of beer, and which are going to increase by 2% over the rate of inflation for the next few years. Taxes which are only lower than two out of 27 EU countries. That's the reason that alcohol is so expensive, and it's a cause that IMO is worth supporting ( http://www.axethebeertax.com/default.aspx )

And BTW, your comment about them not caring if they have trouble in their pub as long as they're selling the drink in the first place is absolute nonsense.

I agree that they should fight for their profession but most of the anger and discussion should be held towards the government. I made that same point in an earlier post. I'm all for the pubs making a profit and the more pubs to choose from the better but I don't want it at my expense where I can't go and buy a crate of lager relatively cheap. I said earlier that we've seen the supermarkets start pushing their prices up and I'm not overly fussed because I would say that £15 for 24 can of pretty pish lager is a fair price. I can honestly say, touching on minimum pricing and not publicans as such, that I won't be going near a crate of lager if it costs me between £24-£30.

I've signed the above.

I don't think that's true. There are lots of places that cater for people who are just out for a bevvy and a scrap with little control over the amount of alcohol sold to them in their pubs.

[Woody1985]

No need Woody, I just read it literally, perhaps a little silly of me, and found it highly amusing. No critique of your drinking habits intended.

And totally agree about getting trashed/not getting trashed and the role of publicans.

To me so many pubs are the drinking equivalents to 1980's football grounds - minging tips suitable for old jakeys. No wonder they go to the wall as their clientel dies off.

Fair enough. I had orignally put a smilie after my first paragraph and meant it in a jokey way but forgot to re-add it when typing my message again.

Re your last paragraph, that's what I was saying earlier, I find that it's mostly ***** pubs that have shut down. There will be a few that go under that will be a sad loss (Stu in Nottingham mentioned one that sounded really good earlier).

[Woody1985]

The main movement within the trade right now is not directly protesting against supermarket prices anyway, it's protesting against the ridiculous tax levels that the government charges on alcohol. Taxes which currently account for around a third of the cost of a pint of beer, and which are going to increase by 2% over the rate of inflation for the next few years. Taxes which are only lower than two out of 27 EU countries. That's the reason that alcohol is so expensive, and it's a cause that IMO is worth supporting ( http://www.axethebeertax.com/default.aspx )

I've received a reply from N Griffin. Here is the response. Typical MPs response, 'the other parties aren't doing anything'. I'm not interested in other parties cos they're not my MP!

From: Nigel Griffiths <[email protected]>
To: jameswood85@
Sent: Wednesday, 19 August, 2009 21:41:41
Subject: Axe the Beer Tax - LATEST

.hmmessage P{margin:0px;padding:0px;}body.hmmessage{font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;}
Dear James,
Thank you for taking the trouble to contact me. I know how concerned you are about the level of beer duty, but I note that David Cameron and Nick Clegg for the Liberal Democrats in responding to the recent Budget, have NOT made any moves to support you in cutting the tax on beer. Nor are they promising to do anything different if they win the next election. That is because the largest rise in beer tax in recent times was imposed by a Conservative Chancellor!
However, my local licencees tell me that there is now a bigger threat to the license trade: the Scottish National Party propose to increase the age limit for drinking to 21 in Scotland . They have published a document to stop anyone under 21 buying alcohol and want to force Councils to insist on a 21+ age limit as part of licensing conditions – this is exactly what happened in the USA under Ronald Reagan. Mr Salmond wants initially to ‘test’ this on off-licences first. He has already lauded the USA ’s blanket age-limit for sales to drinkers aged over 21.
I have written to Alec Salmond about this already, and if you would like a copy of his response, please let me know.
In the meantime, if there are any other matters I can help you with, please do not hesitate to contact me.
Best wishes.
Nigel



My reply
-------------------
Hello,

Thank you for your reply.

I'm not overly concerned about their promises as they're not my local MP. I suspect that Labour won't be doing anything at the next election either, is that correct?

I'd be interested in Alec Salmond's reply regarding the 21 limit on alcohol sales.

Regards,

James Wood

[Dashing Bob S]

I've received a reply from N Griffin. Here is the response. Typical MPs response, 'the other parties aren't doing anything'. I'm not interested in other parties cos they're not my MP!

From: Nigel Griffiths <[email protected]>
To: jameswood85@
Sent: Wednesday, 19 August, 2009 21:41:41
Subject: Axe the Beer Tax - LATEST

.hmmessage P{margin:0px;padding:0px;}body.hmmessage{font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;}
Dear James,
Thank you for taking the trouble to contact me. I know how concerned you are about the level of beer duty, but I note that David Cameron and Nick Clegg for the Liberal Democrats in responding to the recent Budget, have NOT made any moves to support you in cutting the tax on beer. Nor are they promising to do anything different if they win the next election. That is because the largest rise in beer tax in recent times was imposed by a Conservative Chancellor!
However, my local licencees tell me that there is now a bigger threat to the license trade: the Scottish National Party propose to increase the age limit for drinking to 21 in Scotland . They have published a document to stop anyone under 21 buying alcohol and want to force Councils to insist on a 21+ age limit as part of licensing conditions – this is exactly what happened in the USA under Ronald Reagan. Mr Salmond wants initially to ‘test’ this on off-licences first. He has already lauded the USA ’s blanket age-limit for sales to drinkers aged over 21.
I have written to Alec Salmond about this already, and if you would like a copy of his response, please let me know.
In the meantime, if there are any other matters I can help you with, please do not hesitate to contact me.
Best wishes.
Nigel



My reply
-------------------
Hello,

Thank you for your reply.

I'm not overly concerned about their promises as they're not my local MP. I suspect that Labour won't be doing anything at the next election either, is that correct?

I'd be interested in Alec Salmond's reply regarding the 21 limit on alcohol sales.

Regards,

James Wood

Here's me being pedantic again, cause I know who you mean, but you're really going to get yourself branded as a beer nazi now!

Some great bars in Munich however.

[Woody1985]

Here's me being pedantic again, cause I know who you mean, but you're really going to get yourself branded as a beer nazi now!

Some great bars in Munich however.

Pun intended :greengrin

I have thought about the Octoberfest but am too skint this year. Hopefully next year.

I'll happily pay £4 a pint there. How much do the prices vary there? :devil:

I suspect there will be really cheap to very expensive. What's the most expensive pint? You'd have to buy one wouldn't you!

[Betty Boop]

I've received a reply from N Griffin. Here is the response. Typical MPs response, 'the other parties aren't doing anything'. I'm not interested in other parties cos they're not my MP!

From: Nigel Griffiths <[email protected]>
To: jameswood85@
Sent: Wednesday, 19 August, 2009 21:41:41
Subject: Axe the Beer Tax - LATEST

.hmmessage P{margin:0px;padding:0px;}body.hmmessage{font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;}
Dear James,
Thank you for taking the trouble to contact me. I know how concerned you are about the level of beer duty, but I note that David Cameron and Nick Clegg for the Liberal Democrats in responding to the recent Budget, have NOT made any moves to support you in cutting the tax on beer. Nor are they promising to do anything different if they win the next election. That is because the largest rise in beer tax in recent times was imposed by a Conservative Chancellor!
However, my local licencees tell me that there is now a bigger threat to the license trade: the Scottish National Party propose to increase the age limit for drinking to 21 in Scotland . They have published a document to stop anyone under 21 buying alcohol and want to force Councils to insist on a 21+ age limit as part of licensing conditions – this is exactly what happened in the USA under Ronald Reagan. Mr Salmond wants initially to ‘test’ this on off-licences first. He has already lauded the USA ’s blanket age-limit for sales to drinkers aged over 21.
I have written to Alec Salmond about this already, and if you would like a copy of his response, please let me know.
In the meantime, if there are any other matters I can help you with, please do not hesitate to contact me.
Best wishes.
Nigel



My reply
-------------------
Hello,

Thank you for your reply.

I'm not overly concerned about their promises as they're not my local MP. I suspect that Labour won't be doing anything at the next election either, is that correct?

I'd be interested in Alec Salmond's reply regarding the 21 limit on alcohol sales.

Regards,

James Wood

Most supermarkets are insisting that 25 is the age limit for alcohol and tobacco sales! :rolleyes:

[Dashing Bob S]

Pun intended :greengrin

I have thought about the Octoberfest but am too skint this year. Hopefully next year.

I'll happily pay £4 a pint there. How much do the prices vary there? :devil:

I suspect there will be really cheap to very expensive. What's the most expensive pint? You'd have to buy one wouldn't you!

A while since I last over for Oktoberfest (about five years) but an experience not to missed. Row upon row of beer tents with breweries from across Europe, and a good-natured rowdy and quite promiscuous atmosphere, not just on site but in the pubs across town. It's obviously costly if you're drinking loads, (I was) but I don't recall it being outrageously expensive.

Highly recommended.

[Frazerbob]

Most supermarkets are insisting that 25 is the age limit for alcohol and tobacco sales! :rolleyes:

No they're not. They opperate the Challenge 25 scheme which means if you look under 25 you will be asked for ID to prove that you are over 18. If you can prove you are over 18, you will be served the booze or fags.

[J-C]

No they're not. They opperate the Challenge 25 scheme which means if you look under 25 you will be asked for ID to prove that you are over 18. If you can prove you are over 18, you will be served the booze or fags.


True, the law states that you have to be 18 to buy alchohol and cigarettes and as said shops have a 25 scheme, so if you look youngish, you'll get asked to prove it.

[Hannah_hfc]

True, the law states that you have to be 18 to buy alchohol and cigarettes and as said shops have a 25 scheme, so if you look youngish, you'll get asked to prove it.

:agree:Work in a supermarket and must admit everyone i seem to ID have birthdays in 1984/1985...very poor judge at age!

[J-C]

:agree:Work in a supermarket and must admit everyone i seem to ID have birthdays in 1984/1985...very poor judge at age!


I was in Tesco's behind a guy who was clearly 25+ and the girl asked him for ID, now I understand if you're not sure you should ask but this guy was clearly old enough.

[Hannah_hfc]

I was in Tesco's behind a guy who was clearly 25+ and the girl asked him for ID, now I understand if you're not sure you should ask but this guy was clearly old enough.

I had a colleague who ID'd a girl who were was clearly 25+ for the lottery once :greengrin

I find in general its girls I I'd more because even the 25 year olds look about 20 half the time! Guys are a bit more easier.

[Woody1985]

I had a colleague who ID'd a girl who were was clearly 25+ for the lottery once :greengrin

I find in general its girls I I'd more because even the 25 year olds look about 20 half the time! Guys are a bit more easier.

This has been discussed a few times on here but it really pisses me off that you won't sell it to someone even if they have ID because they are with someone who doesn't have ID.

Do you do the same with gas, kitchen knives etc? It's a joke.

My aunt (46ish) was in Tesco around 2/3 weeks ago with my cousin who is 22 and they wouldn't sell her a bottle of wine because my cousin never had ID. Now, I could maybe, a very big maybe, understand if my aunt was buying Lambrini or Buckfast.

Some things are becoming a joke.

[Hannah_hfc]

This has been discussed a few times on here but it really pisses me off that you won't sell it to someone even if they have ID because they are with someone who doesn't have ID.

Do you do the same with gas, kitchen knives etc? It's a joke.

My aunt (46ish) was in Tesco around 2/3 weeks ago with my cousin who is 22 and they wouldn't sell her a bottle of wine because my cousin never had ID. Now, I could maybe, a very big maybe, understand if my aunt was buying Lambrini or Buckfast.

Some things are becoming a joke.

Where did i mention any of this? :confused: I wasnt talking about guys and girls together, I was talking in general...

The aunt and the cousin story you mention, I would not have had a problem with it, I tend to use my common sense with these situations :wink:

[Woody1985]

I've received a reply from N Griffin. Here is the response. Typical MPs response, 'the other parties aren't doing anything'. I'm not interested in other parties cos they're not my MP!

From: Nigel Griffiths <[email protected]>
To: jameswood85@
Sent: Wednesday, 19 August, 2009 21:41:41
Subject: Axe the Beer Tax - LATEST

.hmmessage P{margin:0px;padding:0px;}body.hmmessage{font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;}
Dear James,
Thank you for taking the trouble to contact me. I know how concerned you are about the level of beer duty, but I note that David Cameron and Nick Clegg for the Liberal Democrats in responding to the recent Budget, have NOT made any moves to support you in cutting the tax on beer. Nor are they promising to do anything different if they win the next election. That is because the largest rise in beer tax in recent times was imposed by a Conservative Chancellor!
However, my local licencees tell me that there is now a bigger threat to the license trade: the Scottish National Party propose to increase the age limit for drinking to 21 in Scotland . They have published a document to stop anyone under 21 buying alcohol and want to force Councils to insist on a 21+ age limit as part of licensing conditions – this is exactly what happened in the USA under Ronald Reagan. Mr Salmond wants initially to ‘test’ this on off-licences first. He has already lauded the USA ’s blanket age-limit for sales to drinkers aged over 21.
I have written to Alec Salmond about this already, and if you would like a copy of his response, please let me know.
In the meantime, if there are any other matters I can help you with, please do not hesitate to contact me.
Best wishes.
Nigel



My reply
-------------------
Hello,

Thank you for your reply.

I'm not overly concerned about their promises as they're not my local MP. I suspect that Labour won't be doing anything at the next election either, is that correct?

I'd be interested in Alec Salmond's reply regarding the 21 limit on alcohol sales.

Regards,

James Wood


I received another reply, checked it at home this morning (can't get on yahoo at work).

The reply basically stated that there are no plans to change anything from a Labour point of view.

I then asked if he would refer to my earlier point and whether he agreed with the prices increasing or if he was willing to challenge the chancellor.

I'm awaiting the reply from AS re the +21 rule. Will post up when I get it.

[Woody1985]

Where did i mention that :confused: I wasnt talking about guys and girls together, I was talking in general...

And off record, Im slightly more lenient than some cashiers :wink:

Sorry, I was just tagging one of your comments as you've been discussing the whole 'if you look under 25 you get IDd' issue. I should have also added JC50s comment.

One of the issues that has been discussed is the annoyance of having to take ID everywhere.

I was thinking on top of that where people have IDd but aren't sold when they're with others who don't.

Out of interest, does the same apply with gas / knives etc? I guess not.

It wasn't a dig at you as I know there are personal penalties for the staff who sell alcohol. Although the penalties are ridiculously excessive for a simple mistake.

[Hannah_hfc]

Sorry, I was just tagging one of your comments as you've been discussing the whole 'if you look under 25 you get IDd' issue. I should have also added JC50s comment.

One of the issues that has been discussed is the annoyance of having to take ID everywhere.

I was thinking on top of that where people have IDd but aren't sold when they're with others who don't.

Out of interest, does the same apply with gas / knives etc? I guess not.

It wasn't a dig at you as I know there are personal penalties for the staff who sell alcohol. Although the penalties are ridiculously excessive for a simple mistake.

I agree, some of the storys like the one you told I think "what were they thinking?"

They say in general apply ask-25 to all age related products but alcohol and cigarettes are more monitored ones.
In my experience only adults tend to buy knives and gas, and never had to id someone for dvds either. Agree its annoying carrying id everywhere, though I cant see the situation changing though, next step will surely be id'd unless your greying :wink:

[creebo1875]

If your only concern in life is the cost of a pint, or wheres the cheapest place to buy alcohol, i sure wish i was you.

The price of bevvy aint the only problem with this country, the local authorities close schools due to funding issues but then spend millions on a tram line that nobody wants, NHS is a shambles yet the MP's want a wage rise, our security services are stretched and our prison systems at bursting point and our politicians are away on holiday.

I cant comment on previous governements as im too young to really appreciate how they worked but surely this government has to be up there with the worse this country has had.

[Woody1985]

If your only concern in life is the cost of a pint, or wheres the cheapest place to buy alcohol, i sure wish i was you.

The price of bevvy aint the only problem with this country, the local authorities close schools due to funding issues but then spend millions on a tram line that nobody wants, NHS is a shambles yet the MP's want a wage rise, our security services are stretched and our prison systems at bursting point and our politicians are away on holiday.

I cant comment on previous governements as im too young to really appreciate how they worked but surely this government has to be up there with the worse this country has had.

I think that everything you have mentioned above has been discussed numerous times. This is just another thing to add to the long list of things that people in this country are being bent over and shafted for.

The thing that worries me most is that nothing will change for the better IMHO no matter what government, not just with alcohol I may add.

There's a sentence in the NG mail I posted above that sums up politics and how we are pretty much shafted trying to change anything even though we live in a so called democracy. NG states when I asked if he would challenge the increase in beer duty with 'well none of the other parties are proposing to do anything different'. Well guess ****ing what Nigel, none of them are in power and just because they're on a par with your thoughts does not make you any better. Waste of ****ing space.

[creebo1875]

I think that everything you have mentioned above has been discussed numerous times. This is just another thing to add to the long list of things that people in this country are being bent over and shafted for.

The thing that worries me most is that nothing will change for the better IMHO no matter what government, not just with alcohol I may add.

There's a sentence in the NG mail I posted above that sums up politics and how we are pretty much shafted trying to change anything even though we live in a so called democracy. NG states when I asked if he would challenge the increase in beer duty with 'well none of the other parties are proposing to do anything different'. Well guess ****ing what Nigel, none of them are in power and just because they're on a par with your thoughts does not make you any better. Waste of ****ing space.

It seems to me, that if theres going be a big change in how the government operates its going to take a massive event that people just cant stomach anymore and rise up.......that sounds like im choking on a revolution but i think it may come to that at some point, riots etc theres only so much people can take, imagine if this happened in France (and im not saying france is perfect) there would be riots everywhere. Were too nice in this country,grump and moan but really we do nothing about it (can we do something about it)

[Killiehibbie]

It seems to me, that if theres going be a big change in how the government operates its going to take a massive event that people just cant stomach anymore and rise up.......that sounds like im choking on a revolution but i think it may come to that at some point, riots etc theres only so much people can take, imagine if this happened in France (and im not saying france is perfect) there would be riots everywhere. Were too nice in this country,grump and moan but really we do nothing about it (can we do something about it)

Get the barricades up and petrol bombs at the ready.

[Woody1985]

It seems to me, that if theres going be a big change in how the government operates its going to take a massive event that people just cant stomach anymore and rise up.......that sounds like im choking on a revolution but i think it may come to that at some point, riots etc theres only so much people can take, imagine if this happened in France (and im not saying france is perfect) there would be riots everywhere. Were too nice in this country,grump and moan but really we do nothing about it (can we do something about it)

I think that's the problem. We can't.

Even though we're in a supposed democracy, as per my above point, the policticians all think that because they have the same stance or not as bad alternative as the other parties that they can continually **** us each and every way. And they're right.

The country has turned into a pretend / joke country due to petty, upperclass, snobby *****.

[hstn747]

This is my point regarding them having a minium price to sell at. However, their attitude towards the supermarkets is the main thing that gets me.

It's like a 10 year who can't have a toy and decides to destroy it so no one else can play with it.

Take the fight to the government and stay away from my supermarket lager. I realise there are other social issues related to cheap supermarket lager but the pubs don't give a flying **** about that. If there's going to be drink fuelled violence I'm certain they'd rather it was caused by drink they were able to make a profit on.



I think you're absolutely right. The Licensed Trade are complete hypocrites. They pretend to care about the social problems associated with drinking but really just want to reduce the competition from super markets. I wouldn't be surprised if they are partly behind any policy from the government that aims to increase the price that supermarkets pay.



The tax is a separate issue. The Government is clearly desperate for tax pounds to feed its bloated self.



The pubs should be looking at what they can offer that the supermarkets can't. It's not just about price. I'd be happy to pay more for drinks in a pub if the atmosphere was good; the staff were friendly; the security staff weren't on a power trip; the toilets were clean; the pints were of a good standard and they generally put more effort into improving the customer experience.



As far as I can see, the only people who've put much effort into providing the customers with what they want are Wetherspoon type pubs. My local practically chases people out despite the fact we pay £3.10 a pint of tennents! They are far more interested in diners and almost treat us with contempt.



If Governments were really interested in the problems with drunken behaviour, they would look at why people decide that they want to get wasted in the first place. Putting up prices isn't going to heal the real issues behind people's reasons for drinking. Suppressing a problem isn't the way to deal with it.



Perhaps the government could look at spending some of our tax pounds on trying to help make people's lives more fulfilling. Subsidise sports teams and other activities that people could do. Make 5-aside football cheaper on a Saturday evening.