Lockerbie "Bomber"

[steakbake]

They had the wrong man in the first place and I'm glad to see that he may be finally allowed home.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/8198603.stm

Also here, for a blog about the whole case and the doubts over Al-Megrahi's guilt:

http://lockerbiecase.blogspot.com/

[Phil D. Rolls]

They had the wrong man in the first place and I'm glad to see that he may be finally allowed home.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/8198603.stm

Also here, for a blog about the whole case and the doubts over Al-Megrahi's guilt:

http://lockerbiecase.blogspot.com/

The whole thing has been a travesty.:agree:

[Sir David Gray]

Unless he is eventually found to be not guilty, he should not be released from prison.

As things stand right now, he is responsible for the deaths of 270 people and should therefore be in prison until the day he dies. The fact that he has terminal cancer should not change that.

He is reportedly being released under "compassionate grounds". What about the "compassionate grounds" of the victims' families or do they not count?

If it turns out that he wasn't actually responsible for the bombing then I have no problem at all with him being released from prison. Until that day comes however, he should remain behind bars.

[Dashing Bob S]

Unless he is eventually found to be not guilty, he should not be released from prison.

As things stand right now, he is responsible for the deaths of 270 people and should therefore be in prison until the day he dies. The fact that he has terminal cancer should not change that.

He is reportedly being released under "compassionate grounds". What about the "compassionate grounds" of the victims' families or do they not count?

If it turns out that he wasn't actually responsible for the bombing then I have no problem at all with him being released from prison. Until that day comes however, he should remain behind bars.

Presumably this view is based on respect for the legal system, whatever it's flaws?

[Phil D. Rolls]

Unless he is eventually found to be not guilty, he should not be released from prison.

As things stand right now, he is responsible for the deaths of 270 people and should therefore be in prison until the day he dies. The fact that he has terminal cancer should not change that.

He is reportedly being released under "compassionate grounds". What about the "compassionate grounds" of the victims' families or do they not count?

If it turns out that he wasn't actually responsible for the bombing then I have no problem at all with him being released from prison. Until that day comes however, he should remain behind bars.

Yes, except we all know he didn't do it, and that he was imprisoned to keep the US happy. The man's going to die, let him go and at least Scotland can salvage something from this whole sham.

[Jack]

I do not think he should be released from prison until he has served his sentence or is dead.

However I see no reason why he should not be allowed to serve out his sentence in Libya.

While I’m not sure if we have a prisoner transfer agreement with them, I’m sure it wouldn’t take long to get one if necessary. Prisoner transfers happen frequently with countries where we do have agreements.

I agree with others who say it is inhumane what he did and others who say its inhumane to keep a dying man in prison.

To me its more than inhumane to keep him in Greenock FFS!

Hah! Let him go home to a Libyan jail where he can receive visitors in the time he has left, like most people can in jail; let him die in surroundings where they can speak to him in his own language.

Just because he’s a murderous inhumane ******* (until proven otherwise) doesn’t mean we should be as bad.

And besides it would cost us less and leave a cell open for someone else.

[steakbake]

So in effect, some folk are wanting his conviction quashed before he can be considered for release? That will never happen principally because of diplomatic pressures between the UK and the USA, it is not something that our courts will do.

Al Megrahi might very well have been a Libyan agent, but he was convicted on the most flimsy of evidence - a witness statement from a shop keeper who said he saw a man fitting Megrahi's description in Malta the week before the Lockerbie bombing. This was on the presumption that the suitcase was loaded on to the plane in Malta. His evidence was inconsistent, easily taken to pieces by the defence at the time and in ordinary circumstances where the government isn't looking for a scapegoat, would have been thrown out by any jury. It wasn't a trial, it was a complete farce. In the words of the UN monitor Hans Kochler at the trial, "it was a spectacular miscarriage of justice".

[hibsdaft]

never followed the trial at the time but a friend of the family was involved in it and is adamant that Mr Magrahi is innocent, and that everyone involved knew it too.

think thats as close as i have ever been to ITK :cool2:

[ancienthibby]

Unless he is eventually found to be not guilty, he should not be released from prison.

As things stand right now, he is responsible for the deaths of 270 people and should therefore be in prison until the day he dies. The fact that he has terminal cancer should not change that.

He is reportedly being released under "compassionate grounds". What about the "compassionate grounds" of the victims' families or do they not count?

If it turns out that he wasn't actually responsible for the bombing then I have no problem at all with him being released from prison. Until that day comes however, he should remain behind bars.

The Lockerbie bomber should be released immediately on compassionate grounds as he is terminally ill with cancer.

Bear in mind, he is, at worst, only a co-conspirator. The other parties have never been brought to justice, never tried, never sentenced.

Also bear in mind that there is now sufficient information which clearly suggests that the verdict was flawed in the first place.

I am glad that we have a Scottish Government that's not afraid to 'buck the trend' and not be trapped by Anglo-American political posturing.

[silverhibee]

Dont know if this has anything to do with this subject, but just seen a plane flying over the Cramond area being escorted by two fighter jets, wondered who could be on that plane, and my son suggested that it could be the Lockerbie bomber on his way to Libya, not unless Mr Obama has flown in for the festival.:greengrin
Thoughts anybody.

[Hiber-nation]

Dont know if this has anything to do with this subject, but just seen a plane flying over the Cramond area being escorted by two fighter jets, wondered who could be on that plane, and my son suggested that it could be the Lockerbie bomber on his way to Libya, not unless Mr Obama has flown in for the festival.:greengrin
Thoughts anybody.

Surely our new signing :wink:

[silverhibee]

Surely our new signing :wink:

But will he be Hibs class.:greengrin

[(((Fergus)))]

But will he be Hibs class.:greengrin

No, economy class.

[Jack]

Dont know if this has anything to do with this subject, but just seen a plane flying over the Cramond area being escorted by two fighter jets, wondered who could be on that plane, and my son suggested that it could be the Lockerbie bomber on his way to Libya, not unless Mr Obama has flown in for the festival.:greengrin
Thoughts anybody.

9 o'clock?

A Nimrod AWAC (sp) with escort as part of the Tattoo.

[scotcha]

The bit that annoys me the most about the americans who are demanding that he dies in jail is the fact that there own mass murderer, the captain who shot down an iranian airliner and killed hundreds, is probably living a kusthi life in the deep south somewhere on an amazing pension ex-servicemans pension... double bloody standards!!

[Hibs Class]

The bit that annoys me the most about the americans who are demanding that he dies in jail is the fact that there own mass murderer, the captain who shot down an iranian airliner and killed hundreds, is probably living a kusthi life in the deep south somewhere on an amazing pension ex-servicemans pension... double bloody standards!!

It's a little lazy, and predictable, to compare the two events - one was, potentially at least, a case of mistaken identity, whilst the other was a premeditated murder. Why would he be living in the deep south specifically - is there some other insinuation in that comment as well?

[oconnors_strip]

Dont know if this has anything to do with this subject, but just seen a plane flying over the Cramond area being escorted by two fighter jets, wondered who could be on that plane, and my son suggested that it could be the Lockerbie bomber on his way to Libya, not unless Mr Obama has flown in for the festival.:greengrin
Thoughts anybody.


dont know if it was connected with the king of tonga being here-

"Tonga's Royal Corps of Musicians and a cultural troupe will provide a display from the South Pacific, with the island's King Siaosi Tupou V taking the military salute on August 14."

[AFKA5814_Hibs]

Quite clearly unless there is somebody who is going to take his place, he should die in prison.:agree:

Somebody has to do time for this crime. If it's not gonna be anybody else then he should rot in jail, ****** happens, shouldn't matter a jot whether he has cancer or not.

[Houchy]

Quite clearly unless there is somebody who is going to take his place, he should die in prison.:agree:

Somebody has to do time for this crime. If it's not gonna be anybody else then he should rot in jail, ****** happens, shouldn't matter a jot whether he has cancer or not.

Are you really saying that you don't care who does the time, as long as someone does it, you'll be happy.

I've not followed this case as closely as others so can't comment on whether, IMO, he's guilty or innocent but I can only assume I have mis-read your post. Unless the blame can be pinned on someone else, innocent or guilty, Megrahi should die in prison just so long as someone pays?

[JimBHibees]

Personal opinion the guy is totally innocent. Jim Swires whose daughter died on the plane and who was very much a key spokesman in trying to get justice for the victims, thinks he was innocent. Sounds good enough for me, the guy has terminal cancer, show some compassion and let him die with his family in Libya.

[Betty Boop]

Seven US senators have urged the Scottish justice secretary to keep Lockerbie bomber Abdelbaset Ali al-Megrahi behind bars in Scotland. The senators' letter calls it "a horrific act of international terrorism", adding that "until the tragic events of September 11, 2001, no terrorist act had killed more American civilians".
It says: "We know that the Scottish government shares our commitment - and the world's - to support justice and oppose acts of terrorism.
US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton previously pressed Mr MacAskill to keep Megrahi behind bars.

The Americans are clearly trying to force Kenny MacCaskills hand. I hope he stands firm and makes the right decision.

[JimBHibees]

Seven US senators have urged the Scottish justice secretary to keep Lockerbie bomber Abdelbaset Ali al-Megrahi behind bars in Scotland. The senators' letter calls it "a horrific act of international terrorism", adding that "until the tragic events of September 11, 2001, no terrorist act had killed more American civilians".
It says: "We know that the Scottish government shares our commitment - and the world's - to support justice and oppose acts of terrorism.
US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton previously pressed Mr MacAskill to keep Megrahi behind bars.

The Americans are clearly trying to force Kenny MacCaskills hand. I hope he stands firm and makes the right decision.

Agree however in many ways this is linked to Megrahi removing his appeal which may have been more embarressing for the UK/US so it may suit them that he is released despite what they are saying in public.

[--------]

Seven US senators have urged the Scottish justice secretary to keep Lockerbie bomber Abdelbaset Ali al-Megrahi behind bars in Scotland. The senators' letter calls it "a horrific act of international terrorism", adding that "until the tragic events of September 11, 2001, no terrorist act had killed more American civilians".
It says: "We know that the Scottish government shares our commitment - and the world's - to support justice and oppose acts of terrorism.
US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton previously pressed Mr MacAskill to keep Megrahi behind bars.

The Americans are clearly trying to force Kenny MacCaskills hand. I hope he stands firm and makes the right decision.


And if Kenny MacAskill does release him home?

Are they going to bomb us?

Supporting JUSTICE and OPPOSING ACTS OF TERRORISM are all very well, but what has that to do with the American Government?

What KM SHOULD do, with the backing of the entire Scottish Parliament, is release Mr Al-Megrahi to his family pending his appeal, and ensure that that appeal goes ahead in front of a court with the power to call ALL relevant witnesses to testify.

Including members of the present US administration, and members of past US administrations, and members of present and past UK governments.

[Betty Boop]

And if Kenny MacAskill does release him home?

Are they going to bomb us?

Supporting JUSTICE and OPPOSING ACTS OF TERRORISM are all very well, but what has that to do with the American Government?

What KM SHOULD do, with the backing of the entire Scottish Parliament, is release Mr Al-Megrahi to his family pending his appeal, and ensure that that appeal goes ahead in front of a court with the power to call ALL relevant witnesses to testify.

Including members of the present US administration, and members of past US administrations, and members of present and past UK governments.

:agree:

[ancienthibby]

And if Kenny MacAskill does release him home?

Are they going to bomb us?

Supporting JUSTICE and OPPOSING ACTS OF TERRORISM are all very well, but what has that to do with the American Government?

What KM SHOULD do, with the backing of the entire Scottish Parliament, is release Mr Al-Megrahi to his family pending his appeal, and ensure that that appeal goes ahead in front of a court with the power to call ALL relevant witnesses to testify.

Including members of the present US administration, and members of past US administrations, and members of present and past UK governments.

What he said!

Unfortunately, 'the left behinds', being T Scott, P McBride and R Baker are still throwing their toys out of their prams and playing silly party politics! The voters will remember come the next Scottish election!

[JimBHibees]

And if Kenny MacAskill does release him home?

Are they going to bomb us?

Supporting JUSTICE and OPPOSING ACTS OF TERRORISM are all very well, but what has that to do with the American Government?

What KM SHOULD do, with the backing of the entire Scottish Parliament, is release Mr Al-Megrahi to his family pending his appeal, and ensure that that appeal goes ahead in front of a court with the power to call ALL relevant witnesses to testify.

Including members of the present US administration, and members of past US administrations, and members of present and past UK governments.

Agree that is what should happen however has Megrahi's legal team not just cancelled his appeal. I hope KM does the decent thing however the longer that this announcement is delayed the more chance that some shady behind the scenes deal is made and he dies in a Scottish prison IMO.

[--------]

Agree that is what should happen however has Megrahi's legal team not just cancelled his appeal. I hope KM does the decent thing however the longer that this announcement is delayed the more chance that some shady behind the scenes deal is made and he dies in a Scottish prison IMO.


The reason he was tried in Scotland in the first place was that the Libyans didn't trust the American courts (why should they?) and specified Scotland as a place where Mr Al-Megrahi would receive fair treatment. Whether the evidence presented to the court was genuine, or of the same kind and provenance as the 'evidence' that led Bush and Blair and Brown and their pals to declare war on Iraq, for example, only they know. The silence emanating from Westmonstrous, and the withdrawal of Mr Al-Megrahi's appeal (why did he do that, d'you think?), might make a more cynical man than myself a wee bit suspicious ...

We now have the US Secretary of State and a lengthening line-up of US 'men of honour' going public to bully Ken MacAskill and the Scottish Government.

And in the meanwhile Gordo the Great and his fellow Westmonsters are keeping suspiciously quiet about the affair ...

There are really only TWO questions here - is Mr Al-Megrahi really terminally ill? if he is, then is there any precedent for releasing him on compassionate grounds? I don't know the answer to the first question, but the answer to the second is YES, in both Scots and English Criminal Law.

So if the man IS in the last few months of his life, he should be sent home.

There are severe doubts about his conviction, apart from anything else.

[Jack]

:duck:there goes the tourist trade :dummytit:

[Killiehibbie]

I read he was told to withdraw appeal or die in prison. Suddenly it seems the Libyan regime is no longer the enemy all because Madaffi doesn't like the muslim extremists. Oh and book your holidays there before it gets too crowded in the new resorts they're building.

[Betty Boop]

The reason he was tried in Scotland in the first place was that the Libyans didn't trust the American courts (why should they?) and specified Scotland as a place where Mr Al-Megrahi would receive fair treatment. Whether the evidence presented to the court was genuine, or of the same kind and provenance as the 'evidence' that led Bush and Blair and Brown and their pals to declare war on Iraq, for example, only they know. The silence emanating from Westmonstrous, and the withdrawal of Mr Al-Megrahi's appeal (why did he do that, d'you think?), might make a more cynical man than myself a wee bit suspicious ...

We now have the US Secretary of State and a lengthening line-up of US 'men of honour' going public to bully Ken MacAskill and the Scottish Government.

And in the meanwhile Gordo the Great and his fellow Westmonsters are keeping suspiciously quiet about the affair ...

There are really only TWO questions here - is Mr Al-Megrahi really terminally ill? if he is, then is there any precedent for releasing him on compassionate grounds? I don't know the answer to the first question, but the answer to the second is YES, in both Scots and English Criminal Law.

So if the man IS in the last few months of his life, he should be sent home.

There are severe doubts about his conviction, apart from anything else.

I thought Al-Megrahi was tried in the Netherlands in a Scottish court?

[steakbake]

I thought Al-Megrahi was tried in the Netherlands in a Scottish court?

Neutral country, far from neutral court.

I think the SNP are in a difficult position here. We have the other parties goading them about a decision they themselves have been shy, even reluctant to take. They also have the US senators and secretaries breathing down their necks. There is also the media. People like Paul McBride, a former Labour party supporter are dressed up by the BBC and other hacks as a senior influential QC (which he is) while neglecting to mention that he is now the Scottish Tories' justice adviser: hardly a neutral observer.

Reading between the lines of what Salmond said the other day, the Scottish Government are convinced of this man's innocence, or at least are convinced that he is sitting out the time for someone else's crime. There is a general population who do not care if Al Megrahi is innocent and that because he's been "convicted" (on flawed evidence), they're happy to leave it at that.

Behind the scenes there is so much more going on. I do think the Scottish Government have got this one right and I hope they are strong enough to take the right decision. Personally, I doubt Al Megrahi will be freed but I would be happy enough if he was released back to the custody of Libya to see out his time - an option made possible by a treaty signed between Tony Blair and Al-Gaddafi in 2007, often described as having been drawn up for this scenario in particular.

http://aangirfan.blogspot.com/2009/08/gaddafi-rothschild-mandelson-and.html

The very last people on earth who should be lecturing Scotland - or anyone - on what is right or wrong to do with alleged terrorists are the Americans.

[Betty Boop]

Neutral country, far from neutral court.

I think the SNP are in a difficult position here. We have the other parties goading them about a decision they themselves have been shy, even reluctant to take. They also have the US senators and secretaries breathing down their necks. There is also the media. People like Paul McBride, a former Labour party supporter are dressed up by the BBC and other hacks as a senior influential QC (which he is) while neglecting to mention that he is now the Scottish Tories' justice adviser: hardly a neutral observer.

Reading between the lines of what Salmond said the other day, the Scottish Government are convinced of this man's innocence, or at least are convinced that he is sitting out the time for someone else's crime. There is a general population who do not care if Al Megrahi is innocent and that because he's been "convicted" (on flawed evidence), they're happy to leave it at that.

Behind the scenes there is so much more going on. I do think the Scottish Government have got this one right and I hope they are strong enough to take the right decision. Personally, I doubt Al Megrahi will be freed but I would be happy enough if he was released back to the custody of Libya to see out his time - an option made possible by a treaty signed between Tony Blair and Al-Gaddafi in 2007, often described as having been drawn up for this scenario in particular.

http://aangirfan.blogspot.com/2009/08/gaddafi-rothschild-mandelson-and.html

The very last people on earth who should be lecturing Scotland - or anyone - on what is right or wrong to do with alleged terrorists are the Americans.
Absolutely agree! :agree:

[lyonhibs]

Well, whatever your opinions on the matter, it's just been on STV that he is expected to be released in the next 12 hours.

[Darth Hibbie]

Well, whatever your opinions on the matter, it's just been on STV that he is expected to be released in the next 12 hours.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/scotland/article6802746.ece

got his taxi home sorted already.

[--------]

I thought Al-Megrahi was tried in the Netherlands in a Scottish court?

You're absolutely correct. A Scottish court was the only compromise acceptable to all parties, I think.


Neutral country, far from neutral court.

I think the SNP are in a difficult position here. We have the other parties goading them about a decision they themselves have been shy, even reluctant to take. They also have the US senators and secretaries breathing down their necks. There is also the media. People like Paul McBride, a former Labour party supporter are dressed up by the BBC and other hacks as a senior influential QC (which he is) while neglecting to mention that he is now the Scottish Tories' justice adviser: hardly a neutral observer.

Reading between the lines of what Salmond said the other day, the Scottish Government are convinced of this man's innocence, or at least are convinced that he is sitting out the time for someone else's crime. There is a general population who do not care if Al Megrahi is innocent and that because he's been "convicted" (on flawed evidence), they're happy to leave it at that.

Behind the scenes there is so much more going on. I do think the Scottish Government have got this one right and I hope they are strong enough to take the right decision. Personally, I doubt Al Megrahi will be freed but I would be happy enough if he was released back to the custody of Libya to see out his time - an option made possible by a treaty signed between Tony Blair and Al-Gaddafi in 2007, often described as having been drawn up for this scenario in particular.

http://aangirfan.blogspot.com/2009/08/gaddafi-rothschild-mandelson-and.html

The very last people on earth who should be lecturing Scotland - or anyone - on what is right or wrong to do with alleged terrorists are the Americans.

Totally agree. :top marks

---------- Post added at 12:27 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:26 AM ----------


Well, whatever your opinions on the matter, it's just been on STV that he is expected to be released in the next 12 hours.


The only possible conclusion IMO. :agree:

[Lucius Apuleius]

Personally, as I was out the country most of the time, I did not follow the court case. The fact is though he was found guilty, whether rightly or wrongly should not be an issue here. I believe that life should mean life, in fact all sentences should be exactly what they say and not cut in half as soon as they are imprisoned. However, I do also belive that a man dying a totally undignified death with cancer should be able to spend it with people he can talk to. The solution for me would be finishing his sentence in a Lybian prison.

PS. Sky news is saying it is actually Scottish law that says a person MUST be released if he has less than 3 months to live???

[Betty Boop]

He has been released. A very interesting speech by Kenny McCaskill., certainly raised a lot of unanswered questions, especially why the UK Government declined to comment on the deal done with the Americans that he would never be released. I wonder if we will ever get to know the truth?

[Golden Bear]

And just how terminal is his terminal cancer?

I'm more than a bit sceptical of this entire issue and I've a feeling Mckaskill will be left with mud on his face and the Scottish legal system will be open to ridicule.

Time will tell.

[s.a.m]

And just how terminal is his terminal cancer?

I'm more than a bit sceptical of this entire issue and I've a feeling Mckaskill will be left with mud on his face and the Scottish legal system will be open to ridicule.

Time will tell.

I'm pretty sure that this case is different from the likes of Ernest Saunders' case and his 'Alzheimers'. His cancer diagnosis, tracking and prognosis won't have been established through patient behaviour observation and self-reported symptoms. Presumably they will have used scans and blood tests, and the state of his health will be much more objectively quantified than in some other illnesses.
I think.:greengrin

[GlesgaeHibby]

Unless he is eventually found to be not guilty, he should not be released from prison.

As things stand right now, he is responsible for the deaths of 270 people and should therefore be in prison until the day he dies. The fact that he has terminal cancer should not change that.

He is reportedly being released under "compassionate grounds". What about the "compassionate grounds" of the victims' families or do they not count?

If it turns out that he wasn't actually responsible for the bombing then I have no problem at all with him being released from prison. Until that day comes however, he should remain behind bars.

Thought you were a Christian FalkirkHibee?

Forgiveness is meant to be at the forefront of christianity. Who are we to judge as we are all sinners?

The guy whether guilty or not will die a slow painful death at the hands of a cruel and wicked disease. Surely that is punishment enough?

I am glad we have been able to show compassion to someone that (IF GUILTY) showed no compassion to others.

[Aubenas]

This is a good day for Scotland. Regardless of Magrahi's guilt (and from what I can see there are good reasons for doubt) the American idea of prison being revenge is just barbaric. If he did it and showed no compassion to the families of the victims, how in hell can it be right that we do the same to him??? The quote of the day is

"In Scotland, we are a people who pride ourselves on our humanity.
"It is viewed as a defining characteristic of Scotland and the Scottish people."

Given we are blighted in Scotland every day by wee half witted nyaffs knifing people to show how 'hard' they are, it's great to see a government rep emphasising the positive nature of our country.

[--------]

This is a good day for Scotland. Regardless of Magrahi's guilt (and from what I can see there are good reasons for doubt) the American idea of prison being revenge is just barbaric. If he did it and showed no compassion to the families of the victims, how in hell can it be right that we do the same to him??? The quote of the day is

"In Scotland, we are a people who pride ourselves on our humanity.
"It is viewed as a defining characteristic of Scotland and the Scottish people."

Given we are blighted in Scotland every day by wee half witted nyaffs knifing people to show how 'hard' they are, it's great to see a government rep emphasising the positive nature of our country.


I was proud of Kenny today. He spoke like a statesman.

Proud to be a Scot, too.

[Phil D. Rolls]

I was proud of Kenny today. He spoke like a statesman.

Proud to be a Scot, too.

The boy done good. :agree:

[ancienthibby]

The boy done good. :agree:

:agree::agree::agree:

[Sir David Gray]

Thought you were a Christian FalkirkHibee?

Forgiveness is meant to be at the forefront of christianity. Who are we to judge as we are all sinners?

The guy whether guilty or not will die a slow painful death at the hands of a cruel and wicked disease. Surely that is punishment enough?

I am glad we have been able to show compassion to someone that (IF GUILTY) showed no compassion to others.

It's not my place to forgive Al Megrahi. The only people who can forgive him are the families of his 270 victims.

As I have said in the other thread on this subject, if I was battered black and blue by a gang, I could maybe find it in my heart to forgive them but it doesn't mean that I would want them to be released early from their sentence.

Obviously you are going to come back at me by highlighting the fact that he has terminal cancer. That may well be the case but, as far as I'm concerned, when someone is convicted of committing pre-meditated murder, they should be in prison until the day they die.

The legal system in this country is far too heavily weighted in favour of the criminals and it is all wrong.

[Phil D. Rolls]

It's not my place to forgive Al Megrahi. The only people who can forgive him are the families of his 270 victims.

As I have said in the other thread on this subject, if I was battered black and blue by a gang, I could maybe find it in my heart to forgive them but it doesn't mean that I would want them to be released early from their sentence.

Obviously you are going to come back at me by highlighting the fact that he has terminal cancer. That may well be the case but, as far as I'm concerned, when someone is convicted of committing pre-meditated murder, they should be in prison until the day they die.

The legal system in this country is far too heavily weighted in favour of the criminals and it is all wrong.

I liked the proposition that he may have done something barbaric, but we have humanity and should not lower ourselves to that level. It's very much about individual beliefs though, and whilst I can sympathise with the American families, it is a matter for Scotland to decide how it treats people.

As far as I can see, we don't go around trying to tell the world how it should act, and don't put ourselves in the position where people want to exact revenge on us.

[kaimendhibs]

I am sorry if going against the grain, but he WAS found guilty and was sentanced to LIFE. none of the victims were allowed compassionate leave, and thier families didnt get to say goodbye. imo, mckaskill is a publicity seeking, hypocyritial dick who did this for his own ego. disagree if you like, this is all wrong

[Sir David Gray]

I liked the proposition that he may have done something barbaric, but we have humanity and should not lower ourselves to that level. It's very much about individual beliefs though, and whilst I can sympathise with the American families, it is a matter for Scotland to decide how it treats people.

As far as I can see, we don't go around trying to tell the world how it should act, and don't put ourselves in the position where people want to exact revenge on us.

I totally agree. He was tried under Scots law, convicted under Scots law and now he has been freed under Scots law.

It is up to Scotland, with regards to what we do with our prisoners, but I'm just very disappointed with the decision that Kenny MacAskill has made.


I am sorry if going against the grain, but he WAS found guilty and was sentanced to LIFE. none of the victims were allowed compassionate leave, and thier families didnt get to say goodbye. imo, mckaskill is a publicity seeking, hypocyritial dick who did this for his own ego. disagree if you like, this is all wrong

You won't get any disagreement from me, I completely agree. :agree:

[GlesgaeHibby]

It's not my place to forgive Al Megrahi. The only people who can forgive him are the families of his 270 victims.

As I have said in the other thread on this subject, if I was battered black and blue by a gang, I could maybe find it in my heart to forgive them but it doesn't mean that I would want them to be released early from their sentence.

Obviously you are going to come back at me by highlighting the fact that he has terminal cancer. That may well be the case but, as far as I'm concerned, when someone is convicted of committing pre-meditated murder, they should be in prison until the day they die.

The legal system in this country is far too heavily weighted in favour of the criminals and it is all wrong.

Scottish Justice Laws are based upon Christian values. We must punish those who are guilty, but show compassion when it is needed. This man only has weeks to live. His life would end sooner if he were kept locked up. Just because he did wrong does not give us the excuse to act mercilessly towards him.

At the end of the day, going by christianity we are all sinners in God's eyes.
"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

Christianity teaches love of each other. God's judgement will be final.

[Sir David Gray]

Scottish Justice Laws are based upon Christian values. We must punish those who are guilty, but show compassion when it is needed. This man only has weeks to live. His life would end sooner if he were kept locked up. Just because he did wrong does not give us the excuse to act mercilessly towards him.

At the end of the day, going by christianity we are all sinners in God's eyes.
"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

Christianity teaches love of each other. God's judgement will be final.

Someone who is responsible for the murders of 270 people should be locked up until the day they die. I really don't see why his cancer should change that.

He, and others like him, should be given a life sentence, which means that they die in prison regardless of how they actually end up dying.

I know it's in England as opposed to Scotland but should we also look to release the likes of Ian Brady, Peter Sutcliffe, Rosemary West and Ian Huntley on "compassionate grounds", if they ever contract a terminal illness?

Even although all four of them put together are responsible for fewer murders than Al Megrahi, if there was even the slightest hint of any of those people possibly being released from prison, there would be a massive outpouring of anger and outrage from the public (and rightly so).

Christian or not, I believe that someone who kills 270 people should spend the rest of their days on Earth, in a prison cell.

It's high time that we stopped giving so many rights and so much favour to the criminals and transferred it to the victims instead.

I read the other day that one of the men who was convicted of the murder of Jolanta Bledaite in Arbroath last year, has had his minimum 20 year sentence cut by 2 years by appeal judges, because he pled guilty.

We are talking here about a man who played a part in torturing a woman in her own home before smothering her to death, chopping off her head and hands, stuffing her remains in a suitcase and then throwing it out to sea, just so he and his partner in crime could steal her savings.

I find it absolutely disgraceful that a judge would reduce the sentence of someone who was involved in such a shocking crime.

That judge should hang his head in shame and I think Kenny MacAskill should do the same for the decision he's taken with Al Megrahi.

[lyonhibs]

It seems that the Scottish Government (already in a "Catch 22" situation with this one) is being accused of being callous and cold-hearted by people who appear to vehemently wish to see a man (whose guilt seems to be a mite dubious) die in prison, at great expense to the UK taxpayer (and god knows the UK Taxpayer doesn't like forking out for things that don't immediately benefit him/her directly). This, for me, shows a distinct lack of joined up thinking.

My mate summed it up best last night in the pub "**** paying for him to die in Scotland"

I assume, FH et al, that you'd have been quite happy for Al-Megrahi to get all his expensive cancer treatment, use of hospital time etc paid for over here in Scotland??

The BIG problem will arise if - having said to the media via official medical reports - that he only has months to live, Al Megrahi is still popping champagne corks to celebrate 1 year out of captivity. Then, MacAskill will have had his bluff called big style, but I can't see that happening.

[Betty Boop]

Someone who is responsible for the murders of 270 people should be locked up until the day they die. I really don't see why his cancer should change that.

He, and others like him, should be given a life sentence, which means that they die in prison regardless of how they actually end up dying.

I know it's in England as opposed to Scotland but should we also look to release the likes of Ian Brady, Peter Sutcliffe, Rosemary West and Ian Huntley on "compassionate grounds", if they ever contract a terminal illness?

Even although all four of them put together are responsible for fewer murders than Al Megrahi, if there was even the slightest hint of any of those people possibly being released from prison, there would be a massive outpouring of anger and outrage from the public (and rightly so).

Christian or not, I believe that someone who kills 270 people should spend the rest of their days on Earth, in a prison cell.

It's high time that we stopped giving so many rights and so much favour to the criminals and transferred it to the victims instead.

I read the other day that one of the men who was convicted of the murder of Jolanta Bledaite in Arbroath last year, has had his minimum 20 year sentence cut by 2 years by appeal judges, because he pled guilty.

We are talking here about a man who played a part in torturing a woman in her own home before smothering her to death, chopping off her head and hands, stuffing her remains in a suitcase and then throwing it out to sea, just so he and his partner in crime could steal her savings.

I find it absolutely disgraceful that a judge would reduce the sentence of someone who was involved in such a shocking crime.

That judge should hang his head in shame and I think Kenny MacAskill should do the same for the decision he's taken with Al Megrahi.
I presume you felt the same about those released under the terms of "The Good Friday Agreement" ?

[easty]

Someone who is responsible for the murders of 270 people should be locked up until the day they die. I really don't see why his cancer should change that.

He, and others like him, should be given a life sentence, which means that they die in prison regardless of how they actually end up dying.

I know it's in England as opposed to Scotland but should we also look to release the likes of Ian Brady, Peter Sutcliffe, Rosemary West and Ian Huntley on "compassionate grounds", if they ever contract a terminal illness?

Even although all four of them put together are responsible for fewer murders than Al Megrahi, if there was even the slightest hint of any of those people possibly being released from prison, there would be a massive outpouring of anger and outrage from the public (and rightly so).

Christian or not, I believe that someone who kills 270 people should spend the rest of their days on Earth, in a prison cell.

It's high time that we stopped giving so many rights and so much favour to the criminals and transferred it to the victims instead.

I read the other day that one of the men who was convicted of the murder of Jolanta Bledaite in Arbroath last year, has had his minimum 20 year sentence cut by 2 years by appeal judges, because he pled guilty.

We are talking here about a man who played a part in torturing a woman in her own home before smothering her to death, chopping off her head and hands, stuffing her remains in a suitcase and then throwing it out to sea, just so he and his partner in crime could steal her savings.

I find it absolutely disgraceful that a judge would reduce the sentence of someone who was involved in such a shocking crime.

That judge should hang his head in shame and I think Kenny MacAskill should do the same for the decision he's taken with Al Megrahi.

I totally agree with all of that.

If he had been re-tried and found not guilty then by all means send him home, but in no way should someone found guilty of mass murder be allowed any sort of "compassionate" release.

I found it cringingly embarrassing that they had saltires flying when he got off the plane, to nothing short of a heroes welcome, when he got home.

Though I don't believe America have any right to any kind of say in how we run our country I think they are quite rightly very unhappy about this situation.

[Sir David Gray]

It seems that the Scottish Government (already in a "Catch 22" situation with this one) is being accused of being callous and cold-hearted by people who appear to vehemently wish to see a man (whose guilt seems to be a mite dubious) die in prison, at great expense to the UK taxpayer (and god knows the UK Taxpayer doesn't like forking out for things that don't immediately benefit him/her directly). This, for me, shows a distinct lack of joined up thinking.

My mate summed it up best last night in the pub "**** paying for him to die in Scotland"

I assume, FH et al, that you'd have been quite happy for Al-Megrahi to get all his expensive cancer treatment, use of hospital time etc paid for over here in Scotland??

The BIG problem will arise if - having said to the media via official medical reports - that he only has months to live, Al Megrahi is still popping champagne corks to celebrate 1 year out of captivity. Then, MacAskill will have had his bluff called big style, but I can't see that happening.

I wouldn't have had a problem with an agreement being put in place to send him back to Libya and serve the remainder of his sentence in a Libyan prison.

That way, he gets to be back in his homeland, closer to his family, Libya can pay for his cancer treatment but he still has to do the time behind bars.


I presume you felt the same about those released under the terms of "The Good Friday Agreement" ?

Since I was only 10 at the time, I didn't really have much of an opinion on that when it happened.

However, knowing what I know now about it all, I would say that it was wrong that murderers on both sides were released early from their sentences under any sort of agreement.

Although it is slightly different from the situation with Al Megrahi. If you believe official sources, he was released purely because he has terminal cancer and it was under "compassionate grounds".

The terrorists released under the Good Friday Agreement were, as far as I understand it, freed in order to try and bring about a long term peaceful solution to end the Troubles in Northern Ireland and to appease both the Unionist and the Republican communities.

I believe it was seen as being part of a greater good and part of a much larger picture.

That just isn't the case with Al Megrahi.

[khib70]

I wouldn't have had a problem with an agreement being put in place to send him back to Libya and serve the remainder of his sentence in a Libyan prison.

That way, he gets to be back in his homeland, closer to his family, Libya can pay for his cancer treatment but he still has to do the time behind bars.



Since I was only 10 at the time, I didn't really have much of an opinion on that when it happened.

However, knowing what I know now about it all, I would say that it was wrong that murderers on both sides were released early from their sentences under any sort of agreement.

Although it is slightly different from the situation with Al Megrahi. If you believe official sources, he was released purely because he has terminal cancer and it was under "compassionate grounds".

The terrorists released under the Good Friday Agreement were, as far as I understand it, freed in order to try and bring about a long term peaceful solution to end the Troubles in Northern Ireland and to appease both the Unionist and the Republican communities.

I believe it was seen as being part of a greater good and part of a much larger picture.

That just isn't the case with Al Megrahi.
Correct. It's just one of many inappropriate comparisons that have been wheeled out to justify Al Megrahi's release. And of course, many of these terrorists were armed and financed by the Provisional IRA's good friends in the Lybian intelligence services, of which Al Megrahi was an officer.

[--------]

Correct. It's just one of many inappropriate comparisons that have been wheeled out to justify Al Megrahi's release. And of course, many of these terrorists were armed and financed by the Provisional IRA's good friends in the Lybian intelligence services, of which Al Megrahi was an officer.


Ever heard of NORAID?

Or of the fact that on November 5 1982 a US court acquitted 5 men of charges of conspiring to ship arms to the Irish Republican Army (IRA) during 1981?

The men's defence, accepted by the court, was that the CIA had approved the deal. The CIA denied everything.

http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/othelem/chron/ch82.htm

[khib70]

Ever heard of NORAID?

Or of the fact that on November 5 1982 a US court acquitted 5 men of charges of conspiring to ship arms to the Irish Republican Army (IRA) during 1981?

The men's defence, accepted by the court, was that the CIA had approved the deal. The CIA denied everything.

http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/othelem/chron/ch82.htm
Well aware of US involvement with Irish Republicanism, thank you. As aware as I am of your fondness for "two wrongs make a right" type arguments. Lybia's involvement is OK because these naughty Yanks did it too.:rolleyes:

[--------]

Well aware of US involvement with Irish Republicanism, thank you. As aware as I am of your fondness for "two wrongs make a right" type arguments. Lybia's involvement is OK because these naughty Yanks did it too.:rolleyes:


That's NOT what I said, or implied.

YOU stated - correctly - that the Libyan Intelligence services were involved in the funding and arming of the Provisional IRA.

I merely pointed out that PIRA were also funded and armed by their good friends in the Irish-American community in the US.

I might also have mentioned the fact that there was almost no condemnation of PIRA terrorist violence from the USA while the Troubles were going on.

Or that some of the seven Congressmen who signed the letter pressuring Ken MacAskill not to grant compassionate release to Al-Megrahi are from that same Irish-American community.

I didn't say, or imply, that two wrongs make a right, in Libya, in the Persian Gulf, over Lockerbie, or in Ulster. But I'm not going to close my eyes to one side of an argument just to keep people who disagree with me happy.