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View Full Version : NHC Pitiful, gormless, clueless, weak and technically ******ed.............



lyonhibs
12-08-2009, 09:06 PM
................. and that was just the first half hour.

Granted, "Offside Boy" was a tad unlucky with the second yellow, but what was the a*** doing even putting his hands near Carew having got a yellow 90 seconds earlier???

Usually Scotland teams can be relied upon to at least make an effort to make up for their glaring lack of technical ability with a show of heart, spirit and determination. Somehow Burley has managed to suck even that out of the players.

If I was a Tartan Army member that spent, say, £200+ on travel, £75+ on accomodation and £200 on booze, plus match ticket etc, I'd feel absolutely robbed.

A disgrace of a match - a "surrender" if you'll all permit the usage of that word this once - that hasn't been seen since the Berti McVogts days.

:grr::grr::grr:

GGTTH

ArabHibee
12-08-2009, 09:10 PM
When I read the title to this thread -

Pitiful, gormless, clueless, weak and technically ******ed.............

I thought you were talking about Chuckie coz of some of the remarks he had made about punters in the Beehive on Saturday! :greengrin

Richard Scott
12-08-2009, 09:11 PM
I thought you meant Craig Gordon.

Hibster
12-08-2009, 09:14 PM
I thought you'd turned into my mum and were describing me

Danderhall Hibs
12-08-2009, 09:21 PM
I thought we were doing ok until Caldwell got himself sent off (30 odd minutes).

Pretty sure we had about 67% possession at one point.

Green forever
12-08-2009, 09:24 PM
................. and that was just the first half hour.

Granted, "Offside Boy" was a tad unlucky with the second yellow, but what was the a*** doing even putting his hands near Carew having got a yellow 90 seconds earlier???
Usually Scotland teams can be relied upon to at least make an effort to make up for their glaring lack of technical ability with a show of heart, spirit and determination. Somehow Burley has managed to suck even that out of the players.

If I was a Tartan Army member that spent, say, £200+ on travel, £75+ on accomodation and £200 on booze, plus match ticket etc, I'd feel absolutely robbed.

A disgrace of a match - a "surrender" if you'll all permit the usage of that word this once - that hasn't been seen since the Berti McVogts days.

:grr::grr::grr:

GGTTH

Had he been playing for Celtic in the spl, he would have been awarded the free kick and the opponent would have been booked.

I actually don't think he was that unlucky and the booking was probably justified.

500miles
12-08-2009, 09:26 PM
I thought we were doing ok until Caldwell got himself sent off (30 odd minutes).

Pretty sure we had about 67% possession at one point.

Absolutely correct. When we went down to 10 men that battering ram in the guise of a Centre Forward had a field day. If it wasn't for Caldwell's stupidity, we would have won. At international level, that extra man makes all the difference.

500miles
12-08-2009, 09:27 PM
Had he been playing for Celtic in the spl, he would have been awarded the free kick and the opponent would have been booked.

I actually don't think he was that unlucky and the booking was probably justified.

To be fair, Carew was at it just as much as Caldwell, and may even have been the one who initiated it.

lyonhibs
12-08-2009, 09:38 PM
Absolutely correct. When we went down to 10 men that battering ram in the guise of a Centre Forward had a field day. If it wasn't for Caldwell's stupidity, we would have won :faf::faf:. At international level, that extra man makes all the difference.So does technical ability, commitement, drive and determination. All lacking from Scotland - whether with 10 or 11 men - tonight

Aye, cos that's all John Carew is for Aston Villa as well. Merely a battering ram disguised as one of their most important players :rolleyes:

And please - where, pray tell, was the Scotland goal coming from even if Mr "Offside" had remained on the pitch?? That performance had - at best - "sore one to take - loss" written all over it, and as it transpired we were lucky to escape with just 4, as Norway had a BLATANT over the line goal disallowed. I suppose all 4 of the goals were down to missing Gary "Beckenbauer" Caldwell......................................??

deek68
12-08-2009, 09:45 PM
I thought we were doing ok until Caldwell got himself sent off (30 odd minutes).

Pretty sure we had about 67% possession at one point.

Didn't see the game.. i take it we had kick off?

500miles
12-08-2009, 09:47 PM
Aye, cos that's all John Carew is for Aston Villa as well. Merely a battering ram disguised as one of their most important players :rolleyes:

And please - where, pray tell, was the Scotland goal coming from even if Mr "Offside" had remained on the pitch?? That performance had - at best - "sore one to take - loss" written all over it, and as it transpired we were lucky to escape with just 4, as Norway had a BLATANT over the line goal disallowed. I suppose all 4 of the goals were down to missing Gary "Beckenbauer" Caldwell......................................??

Carew is pace and power. That doesn't stop him being a good player, but he is a blunt instrument. He is very good at what he does, but when we had 11 players one the pitch we managed to contain him.

The Scotland goal? Well Fletcher missed a cracking chance, so did Miller, and Commons wasted one by not cutting inside earlier. We were getting into good positions, and probably would have done better with them as the game progressed. Keep in mind, not one of our players had played a single league match, and we still didn't look all that off the pace until Caldwell walked.

easty
12-08-2009, 09:49 PM
That performance was a disgrace, I usually think that the managers can get a hard time when the players let them down on the park.

Tonight though, it was quite clear that not one player had any idea what any other player around him was doing/going to do. Clearly the players completely underperformed but in my opinion Burley let us down more than anyone.

down the slope
12-08-2009, 10:02 PM
Davidson !, Alexander ! there must be better players than this we can pick ?.

Ed De Gramo
12-08-2009, 10:04 PM
Davidson !, Alexander ! there must be better players than this we can pick ?.

My very thoughts :agree:

A bloody joke tonight....:boo hoo:

Booked4Being-Ugly
12-08-2009, 10:10 PM
Carew is pace and power. That doesn't stop him being a good player, but he is a blunt instrument. He is very good at what he does, but when we had 11 players one the pitch we managed to contain him. Yeah, up until Carew turned Caldwell inside out and ripped him for Andrex paper. :greengrin

Hibby 2005
12-08-2009, 10:12 PM
Aye, there are better players, McFadden and Whittaker, oh wait a minute, did they not come on second half and what happened?????

hibbie02
12-08-2009, 10:13 PM
Normally we can rely on Scotland to fail gloriously, but this was back to the days of McBertie.

Caldwell was suckered into 2 yellows by Carew, because Carew had gotten a yellow for nowt and knew what the ref would do. Bombscare was clueless and fell into the trap, way to easy.

If that is the best team we can put out, we deserve to qualify for nowt. Why do they give caps to the likes of Davidson, Alexander, Miller, Marshall, Commins???? Hutton has done nowt in over a year. Caldwell G is still a bombscare and Caldwell S is only playing cos his team got promoted. Very few international class players in that team. Time for a new manager and ditching the remains of McBertie.

Are we so devoid of defenders in Scotland that we have to pick pish all the time? :grr::grr::grr:

hibbie02
12-08-2009, 10:14 PM
Aye, there are better players, McFadden and Whittaker, oh wait a minute, did they not come on second half and what happened?????

Maybes they should have started (when the score was 0-0) and we had 11 players??? :bitchy:

Hibby 2005
12-08-2009, 10:15 PM
Who the **** will take on Scotland?????

500miles
12-08-2009, 10:15 PM
Yeah, up until Carew turned Caldwell inside out and ripped him for Andrex paper. :greengrin

You mean when he pulled Caldwells shirt, Caldwell reciprocated, and got sent off? Caldwell wasn't always going to come out on top, but that's why you have another CH to cover, or a keeper to make the final contribution.

Hibby 2005
12-08-2009, 10:20 PM
Caldwell is Celtic class though ha! ha!

deek68
12-08-2009, 10:22 PM
Who the **** will take on Scotland?????

Luxembourg fancy their chances...

Jonnyboy
12-08-2009, 10:26 PM
Luxembourg fancy their chances...

Tonights Ref was from Luxembourg where he obviously gets top quality matches to referee week in, week out. Add the fact that his name is HAMER and you'll get my drift :greengrin

After he booked Carew he bottled sending him off for simulation :grr:

Booked4Being-Ugly
12-08-2009, 10:37 PM
You mean when he pulled Caldwells shirt, Caldwell reciprocated, and got sent off? Caldwell wasn't always going to come out on top, but that's why you have another CH to cover, or a keeper to make the final contribution.The shirt pulling was probably 50/50 but Carew turned Caldwell who was toiling.

Hibby 2005
12-08-2009, 10:41 PM
Aye, it's all the referee's fault, where have I heard that before? Conspiracy?

Jonnyboy
12-08-2009, 10:42 PM
Aye, it's all the referee's fault, where have I heard that before? Conspiracy?

Don't think anyone is saying that :confused:

His performance didn't do Scotland any favours though :agree:

Crab apple
12-08-2009, 10:47 PM
I thought Harry Potter made a good point in questioning the timing of this game. Why agree to play a match prior to the main Scottish and English domestic leagues kicking off. Difficult to judge form players and friendlies don't really build up match sharpness. The decision to play in Macedonia at the height of the summer was also questionable. Having said that I also thought Burley's team selection and formation was wrong.

ballengeich
12-08-2009, 11:01 PM
I thought Harry Potter made a good point in questioning the timing of this game. Why agree to play a match prior to the main Scottish and English domestic leagues kicking off. Difficult to judge form players and friendlies don't really build up match sharpness. The decision to play in Macedonia at the height of the summer was also questionable. Having said that I also thought Burley's team selection and formation was wrong.

I believe that dates were set by FIFA because the countries in the section couldn't come up with an agreed schedule.

Crab apple
12-08-2009, 11:06 PM
I seem to recall in the documentary last year on Gordon Smith that he came out of the meeting with the other countries delegates quite pleased with himself at the outcome of the negotiations. If I'm correcnt then we might have been better with a Fifa imposed list.

500miles
12-08-2009, 11:08 PM
The shirt pulling was probably 50/50 but Carew turned Caldwell who was toiling.

If Carew didn't need the extra advantage, why did he pull Caldwell's shirt then?

All I'm saying is that to make up for a lack of match fitness, George Burley came up with a plan reliant on everyone staying on the pitch. With ten men playing against a generally sharper and fitter eleven men, that plan collapsed. Like i said, we were unfortunate, because if we played to the plan, we had a far better chance of winning, and we certainly looked a much better team prior to Caldwell's sending off.

Booked4Being-Ugly
12-08-2009, 11:18 PM
If Carew didn't need the extra advantage, why did he pull Caldwell's shirt then?

All I'm saying is that to make up for a lack of match fitness, George Burley came up with a plan reliant on everyone staying on the pitch. With ten men playing against a generally sharper and fitter eleven men, that plan collapsed. Like i said, we were unfortunate, because if we played to the plan, we had a far better chance of winning, and we certainly looked a much better team prior to Caldwell's sending off.Och get off my case and get tae yer bed :wink: I know what you're saying but i'm afraid Scotland were shocking and got what they deserved, no excuses. G'nite mate :Awright!:

Hibby 2005
12-08-2009, 11:21 PM
So Brown and Hutton were match fit? Gies a break.

Benny Brazil
13-08-2009, 06:54 AM
If Carew didn't need the extra advantage, why did he pull Caldwell's shirt then?

All I'm saying is that to make up for a lack of match fitness, George Burley came up with a plan reliant on everyone staying on the pitch. With ten men playing against a generally sharper and fitter eleven men, that plan collapsed. Like i said, we were unfortunate, because if we played to the plan, we had a far better chance of winning, and we certainly looked a much better team prior to Caldwell's sending off.

I fully agree with this point. We certainly didn't look like we would get beaten by 4 goals and we had the majority of possesion up until the sending off.

Last night I was raging at Caldwell, for a professional player to be sent off for two bookings within a few minutes is scandalous.
Ok I understand that Carew was doing the majority of the shirt pulling, but Caldwell was turned too easily and then had to do something to pull him back to stop him going through on goal. He made it easy for the ref to send him off.
The ref was pretty poor all game, he bottled out of sending Riise off for two bad tackles within a short time - the first he booked him for and the second he gave him a warning.
In the SPL or in England, after Caldwell's 2nd foul, the ref would probably have just had a word with him and told him any more and your off. But with referees from other Euro countries, Caldwell has enough experience to know that he was likely to get sent off if he committed another foul.

Whilst I think the majority of the blame lies with Caldwell - if he hadn't been sent off we may have taken something from the game - Burley has to go. I don't think the players respect him or Butcher after what happened with Fergie and McGregor and I don't think he can motivate them to perform - plus some of his team selections / formations are bizarre. Alexander ?? S Caldwell??

Danderhall Hibs
13-08-2009, 08:12 AM
Didn't see the game.. i take it we had kick off?

:hilarious I think we did actually.

Still the 67% stat was from about 20 odd minutes in IIRC.

Dashing Bob S
13-08-2009, 08:15 AM
Caldwell's foolhardiness only tells part of the story. The rest is explained by lack of heart with the players and timid tactics by Burley. This tells the story of the tame capitulation after the sending off, where it was really 5-0 and should have been seven or more.

I think Burley had the Scottish central defence in a state of fear about Carew, as if he was Messi or Kaka, and that explains the inept Caldwell's constant state of panic.

Bar one month at Rangers and half a season at Wolves, Miller's career has nosedived since he left ER and it was pathetic watching him trying to make even a modest impact on a limited defence.

People who cite low match fitness are the start of the season are ferreting around for excuses. It was the biggest game Scotland had in years annd they weren't up to it, and top players weren't prepared to bust a gut and go the extra mile as they obviously had no confidence in the tactics and management.

Burley and his team are clueless. His pre-match spiel about how this squad had come on was deluded nonsense, but tbh i would seriously doubt whether you could get anyone better for the job, or if so, whether they could do anything with the dross that litters the Scotland squad.

brog
13-08-2009, 08:21 AM
I fully agree with this point. We certainly didn't look like we would get beaten by 4 goals and we had the majority of possesion up until the sending off.

Last night I was raging at Caldwell, for a professional player to be sent off for two bookings within a few minutes is scandalous.
Ok I understand that Carew was doing the majority of the shirt pulling, but Caldwell was turned too easily and then had to do something to pull him back to stop him going through on goal. He made it easy for the ref to send him off.
The ref was pretty poor all game, he bottled out of sending Riise off for two bad tackles within a short time - the first he booked him for and the second he gave him a warning.
In the SPL or in England, after Caldwell's 2nd foul, the ref would probably have just had a word with him and told him any more and your off. But with referees from other Euro countries, Caldwell has enough experience to know that he was likely to get sent off if he committed another foul.

Whilst I think the majority of the blame lies with Caldwell - if he hadn't been sent off we may have taken something from the game - Burley has to go. I don't think the players respect him or Butcher after what happened with Fergie and McGregor and I don't think he can motivate them to perform - plus some of his team selections / formations are bizarre. Alexander ?? S Caldwell??

The ref actually didn't book Riise for the first tackle which was far worse than the 2nd, for which he was booked. The difference is if Riise had been booked for the first one he almost certainly would have been smart enough to avoid the 2nd. Caldwell wasn't & as an earlier poster suggested he probably assumed he was in the hoops & would get a free kick!

Bishop Hibee
13-08-2009, 08:21 AM
I thought we were doing ok until Caldwell got himself sent off (30 odd minutes).

Pretty sure we had about 67% possession at one point.

:top marks but lets not let reality get in the way of some pitiful "aren't we a bunch of no-hopers as a nation" navel gazing :rolleyes:

lobster
13-08-2009, 09:22 AM
The signs were there in the very first minute when Hutton gave the ball away. You could just sense it. Team selection was perverse in the extreme but not unexpected from Burley et al. Personally I gave up any confidence in the SFA a long long time ago - Argentina 1978 to be precise - and nothing since has changed my mind. When the whole rotten system - the SFA - is run by a bunch of self-serving repressed power-hungry tossers then what can we expect but pitiful, gormless, clueless, weak and technically ******ed management?
Qualification?, aye right - even if by some miracle we did, it would just be another embarrassment/disappointment when we got there.
Nationalism is poison anyway! :thumbsup: