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GlesgaeHibby
12-08-2009, 07:31 PM
Congratulations on hiding for another 90mins tonight! Thought he was playing the Brian Kerr role very well

Potty78
12-08-2009, 07:33 PM
To be fair Fletcher is surrounded by better players at United.The rest where rubbish too not just him.

GlesgaeHibby
12-08-2009, 07:35 PM
To be fair Fletcher is surrounded by better players at United.The rest where rubbish too not just him.

I know, and he is good for United but when has he ever turned it on for Scotland? He is a first team starter in arguably the best club team on the planet, he should be a standout for Scotland.

blackpoolhibs
12-08-2009, 07:35 PM
He was ok, remember who was in there with him. Scott brown, awful, looked way off the pace. Alexander, rather have the bloody meerkat than this clown. Commons, why? One up front, nobody to hit when in posession. There were worse players than fletcher out there.

Marty-Hibee
12-08-2009, 07:36 PM
To be fair Fletcher is surrounded by better players at United.The rest where rubbish too not just him.



As 'Captain' though, he should be showing a wee bit of pride, getting the team fired up. Brown had nothing short of a shocker, but he certainly wasn't hiding and had a wee bit bite about him

Potty78
12-08-2009, 07:42 PM
He has players who move and make runs at United,for us he had no one.Fletch is a class player and yes thats for United,for us he is surrounded by crap.

Alfred E Newman
12-08-2009, 08:29 PM
Fletcher must be one of the luckiest players going. If he was with any team other than Man Utd he would not be anywhere near International football.
as someone said already, being surrounded by world class players makes him look 100 times better than he is.

mim
12-08-2009, 08:35 PM
Fletcher must be one of the luckiest players going. If he was with any team other than Man Utd he would not be anywhere near International football.
as someone said already, being surrounded by world class players makes him look 100 times better than he is.

Sir Alex can buy just about anybody he wants, so I wonder why he persists with Fletcher - him being so p1sh and all. :hmmm:

GlesgaeHibby
12-08-2009, 08:38 PM
Sir Alex can but just about anybody he wants, so I wonder why he persists with Fletcher - him being so p1sh and all. :hmmm:

He is a good player for Man Utd but why does he never show it for Scotland?

Perspective
12-08-2009, 08:43 PM
This isn't a sensationalist view, but isn't it possible we were just unlucky tonight? I thought for the first-half hour we looked promising, but then fate conspired against us.

Yes, Caldwell could have handled Carew better and, yes, we looked ragged when he went off but I have a lot of sympathy for George Burley. He's going to be savaged tomorrow, particularly in The Daily Record. For what it's worth I applaud him for at least trying to get us to play attack-minded, passing football.

Also...
Fletcher is a fine player, who had a great season last year at Man Utd. He's been tipped to play an even more integral role this year. Ferguson always turns to him for the big games and that club don't carry passengers.

Alexander has never let Scotland down, excelling especially when out of position in Paris.

Brown can hardly be expected to have performed at anything like his peak given his recent return from injury and Commons has also looked good for Scotland of late (while being linked with a £5-million move to the much vaunted EPL).

There's a lot you can level at the national team and the SFA but tonight, at least, I think fate just conspired against us.

Danderhall Hibs
12-08-2009, 08:50 PM
I know, and he is good for United but when has he ever turned it on for Scotland? He is a first team starter in arguably the best club team on the planet, he should be a standout for Scotland.

This point answers your question...


He has players who move and make runs at United,for us he had no one.Fletch is a class player and yes thats for United,for us he is surrounded by crap.

At Man U he breaks pay up and gets it to the "good players". With Scotland we all expect him to be going on 50 yard mazys that end with him smacking it into the top corner.

Hibster
12-08-2009, 08:58 PM
This isn't a sensationalist view, but isn't it possible we were just unlucky tonight? I thought for the first-half hour we looked promising, but then fate conspired against us.

Yes, Caldwell could have handled Carew better and, yes, we looked ragged when he went off but I have a lot of sympathy for George Burley. He's going to be savaged tomorrow, particularly in The Daily Record. For what it's worth I applaud him for at least trying to get us to play attack-minded, passing football.

Also...
Fletcher is a fine player, who had a great season last year at Man Utd. He's been tipped to play an even more integral role this year. Ferguson always turns to him for the big games and that club don't carry passengers.

Alexander has never let Scotland down, excelling especially when out of position in Paris.

Brown can hardly be expected to have performed at anything like his peak given his recent return from injury and Commons has also looked good for Scotland of late (while being linked with a £5-million move to the much vaunted EPL).

There's a lot you can level at the national team and the SFA but tonight, at least, I think fate just conspired against us.

Agree with all that. It was just one of those games. Up until the sending off I thought we'd had the better of the game with Norway looking a bit clueless in attack and a slightly shaky defensively. We were having a lot of possession as well

If we were to play them again next week there's still every chance we'd beat them I reckon

CABBAGE & RIBS
12-08-2009, 09:00 PM
This isn't a sensationalist view, but isn't it possible we were just unlucky tonight? I thought for the first-half hour we looked promising, but then fate conspired against us.

Yes, Caldwell could have handled Carew better and, yes, we looked ragged when he went off but I have a lot of sympathy for George Burley. He's going to be savaged tomorrow, particularly in The Daily Record. For what it's worth I applaud him for at least trying to get us to play attack-minded, passing football.

Also...
Fletcher is a fine player, who had a great season last year at Man Utd. He's been tipped to play an even more integral role this year. Ferguson always turns to him for the big games and that club don't carry passengers.

Alexander has never let Scotland down, excelling especially when out of position in Paris.

Brown can hardly be expected to have performed at anything like his peak given his recent return from injury and Commons has also looked good for Scotland of late (while being linked with a £5-million move to the much vaunted EPL).

There's a lot you can level at the national team and the SFA but tonight, at least, I think fate just conspired against us.


It wasn't just tonight we've been ***** the whole qualification. 4 goals in 6 games isn't enough.

Randerson_4
12-08-2009, 09:47 PM
At Man U he breaks pay up and gets it to the "good players". With Scotland we all expect him to be going on 50 yard mazys that end with him smacking it into the top corner.

Think that hits the nail on the head. Hes constantly been picked for big games, Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea. Cos thats what he is good at. This is the same guy alot of people, on here too, were saying would have made the Champions League final more even had he played. He plays with gash players for Scotland, and he cant be expected to run the show, spread passes about and create, he isnt that type of player. Couldve sat him in midfield with a runner, Brown, and had 2 up top

hibbie02
12-08-2009, 10:18 PM
Sorry Fletcher is pish. He has been an average Man Utd player, given more than enough chances by Fergie, but he is no world class player and never will be. I doubt he would get in most EPL teams. He is the EPL Brian Kerr! :agree:

Jonnyboy
12-08-2009, 10:24 PM
Sorry Fletcher is pish. He has been an average Man Utd player, given more than enough chances by Fergie, but he is no world class player and never will be. I doubt he would get in most EPL teams. He is the EPL Brian Kerr! :agree:

And yet he was the best player on the park by a mile in the Champions League semi final!

Fletcher isn't the first and wont be the last to star for his club and flop for his country :agree:

PeterboroHibee
12-08-2009, 10:26 PM
I cant stand Darren Fletcher. Hes pish for Man Utd and even worse for Scotland; people like him cause he works hard for Man Utd but doesnt make up for his lack of ability, when he has average players around him he clearly struggles.

I love that people think he would have changed the champions league final, sure Iniesta and Xavi would have had it easier if he was there!

hibbie02
12-08-2009, 10:27 PM
And yet he was the best player on the park by a mile in the Champions League semi final!

Fletcher isn't the first and wont be the last to star for his club and flop for his country :agree:

Sorry JB, I see him regularly for Utd and he rarely stars. He is a carthorse in that Utd team and rarely finishes a game.

Jonnyboy
12-08-2009, 10:27 PM
Sorry JB, I see him regularly for Utd and he rarely stars. He is a carthorse in that Utd team and rarely finishes a game.

Fairy nuff :greengrin

Velma Dinkley
12-08-2009, 10:38 PM
To be fair, even Riise would have found it difficult scoring that free kick from the changing rooms where he could easily have been for his terrible tackles. If Caldwell's fouls were worth a sending off then so were Riise's and Carew's. Scotland were well in control up until the sending off but the ref was awful.

Just sums up all the problems we've had in this camaign. No doubt Burley will be made a scapegoat and get the chop. Then we will get in...:confused:

ScottB
12-08-2009, 11:58 PM
To say he is awful is a bit of a stretch, Sir Alex isn't playing him for a laugh.

As has been said, what is he got to work with? He's not a playmaker. If he wasn't doing something right at Man Utd he wouldn't be there, Sir Alex ain't keeping him just for the fun of it.

Winston Ingram
13-08-2009, 07:10 AM
I know, and he is good for United but when has he ever turned it on for Scotland? He is a first team starter in arguably the best club team on the planet, he should be a standout for Scotland.
is he a standout? He's a holding mf. All he does for Man U is win the ball and give it to the more skillful players.

Steve-O
13-08-2009, 07:24 AM
He was crap, as was Brown :agree:

PeterboroHibee
13-08-2009, 08:00 AM
To say he is awful is a bit of a stretch, Sir Alex isn't playing him for a laugh.

As has been said, what is he got to work with? He's not a playmaker. If he wasn't doing something right at Man Utd he wouldn't be there, Sir Alex ain't keeping him just for the fun of it.

Nearly every time he pulls on a Scotland shirt he is awful and pretty much goes missing; he contributes nothing.

And it also raises the question of why in some peoples opinion he plays better for Man Utd; seems like its because he has better players around him.

Ive never been a fan of him, hes nowhere near good enough to be playing for Man Utd and contributes less than others would in that role, and does nothing for Scotland.

Just Jimmy
13-08-2009, 08:13 AM
To be fair, even Riise would have found it difficult scoring that free kick from the changing rooms where he could easily have been for his terrible tackles. If Caldwell's fouls were worth a sending off then so were Riise's and Carew's. Scotland were well in control up until the sending off but the ref was awful.

Just sums up all the problems we've had in this camaign. No doubt Burley will be made a scapegoat and get the chop. Then we will get in...:confused:

First person I've heard say this, I'm surprised at that.

The Ref booked their number 8 for a foul similar to the two by Riise. Then Riise got away with one the same in the corner, they was booked for another exactly the same two minutes later and should have walked.

Caldwell was booked and I said, now watch him get sent off while 'Elbows' Carew and Riise stay on. Lo and Behold...

Ref was a shambles but Burley is not and never will be the answer, cheap option I'm afraid and it sums us up when our best performing managers for years bugger of to Rangers and Birmingham respectively.

Steve-O
13-08-2009, 08:26 AM
There's no doubt the ref didn't help and I agree that either one or both of Carew and Riise should have walked before Caldwell.

The performance after that was nothing short of woeful though, 10 men or not.

BravestHibs
13-08-2009, 08:31 AM
He was ok, remember who was in there with him. Scott brown, awful, looked way off the pace. Alexander, rather have the bloody meerkat than this clown. Commons, why? One up front, nobody to hit when in posession. There were worse players than fletcher out there.

I think he's one of Scotlands best players. He always looks dangerous on the ball. Well, more dangerous than anyone else on the team anyway. Runs at players and is as exciting to watch as anyone on his day.

hibsbollah
13-08-2009, 08:34 AM
This isn't a sensationalist view, but isn't it possible we were just unlucky tonight? I thought for the first-half hour we looked promising, but then fate conspired against us.

Yes, Caldwell could have handled Carew better and, yes, we looked ragged when he went off but I have a lot of sympathy for George Burley. He's going to be savaged tomorrow, particularly in The Daily Record. For what it's worth I applaud him for at least trying to get us to play attack-minded, passing football.

Also...
Fletcher is a fine player, who had a great season last year at Man Utd. He's been tipped to play an even more integral role this year. Ferguson always turns to him for the big games and that club don't carry passengers.

Alexander has never let Scotland down, excelling especially when out of position in Paris.

Brown can hardly be expected to have performed at anything like his peak given his recent return from injury and Commons has also looked good for Scotland of late (while being linked with a £5-million move to the much vaunted EPL).

There's a lot you can level at the national team and the SFA but tonight, at least, I think fate just conspired against us.

Agree with that. The handwringing has to stop.

EastCoastGadgy
13-08-2009, 08:43 AM
Fletcher had an outstanding season for Man Utd last year, particularly coming onto a good game coming into the end of the season.

I think he's a great player for Man Utd as he knows his job is to give the ball to better attacking players, however, with Scotland he is the star and too much is expected of him.

He hasn't fulfilled his potential for Scotland but I don't think it's his fault I just think he tries to do too much and should just stick to his own job.

blackpoolhibs
13-08-2009, 08:56 AM
I think he's one of Scotlands best players. He always looks dangerous on the ball. Well, more dangerous than anyone else on the team anyway. Runs at players and is as exciting to watch as anyone on his day.

I disagree, i never see any end product. He runs into players and loses the ball most of the time.

down the slope
13-08-2009, 09:01 AM
Last night he was doing the pointy thing and not running himself , there were numerous times last night when he was tracking back and then just gave up. Overrated by a mile.

PeterboroHibee
13-08-2009, 09:09 AM
Last night he was doing the pointy thing and not running himself , there were numerous times last night when he was tracking back and then just gave up. Overrated by a mile.

He got ridiculously hyped up last season yet I never saw anything to change my mind that he is pish. Hes even worse for Scotland though, yet people constantly defend him!

Yeah he runs about alot and hes meant to break up attacks, but his passing is awful and his ball retention is pretty crap, if Hargreaves was fit Fletcher wouldnt get near the team.

Bunter
13-08-2009, 09:34 AM
Last night he was doing the pointy thing and not running himself , there were numerous times last night when he was tracking back and then just gave up. Overrated by a mile.
Ross Chisholm for Scotland!!! :wink:

jazthehibby
13-08-2009, 09:43 AM
Fletcher must be one of the luckiest players going. If he was with any team other than Man Utd he would not be anywhere near International football.
as someone said already, being surrounded by world class players makes him look 100 times better than he is.

IMO Fletcher is a good player and was missed big style in the champions league final,

Was probably the most consistant player at Man U last season and won numerous supporters clubs player of the year,

However when you have Rooney, Ronaldo, Anderson, Giggs etc playing with you, or a unfit Broony, Alexander, Davidson, Commons, or that world class striker Chicken Headless from greyskull, what chance do you have.

Sir Mixulot
13-08-2009, 12:15 PM
He has players who move and make runs at United,for us he had no one.Fletch is a class player and yes thats for United,for us he is surrounded by crap.

Surely that argument weras thin when you consider he was probably one of the worst players on the park... if anything he's the ***** instigator!
Feed up of people defending him he is rubbish for Scotland... the crab man would have been better!

Broken Gnome
13-08-2009, 12:34 PM
It is kind of telling that Darren Fletcher is Scotland's best/most successful player considering the role he plays at club level....

....but some of the stuff in this thread is just pathetic. Match-winner against Chelsea for Man Utd in the past, picked ahead of far more illustrious and 'better' players in Champions League semi-finals and what not, it's hardly a CV of crap player is it? Accept it, roles are very different for the second best team in Europe than they are for a fairly limited and run of the mill country. Not Darren Fletcher's fault, like any other player he has a role he specialises in - it's a bit naive or unrealistic to suggest he can or should be a totally different player as soon as he plays for Scotland.

ancient hibee
13-08-2009, 04:45 PM
I love all these posts from those that seem to know more about ManU than the manager.No doubt when he calls it a day the CVs will be going in.

Storar
13-08-2009, 04:52 PM
Fletcher is a decent player but anybody who thinks he'd be getting a game for Man United if Ferguson wasn't the manager there is kidding themselves.
If Kevin Thomson was playing his role in a midfield with Giggs, Ronaldo, Scholes, Nani and all the other real world class players Fletcher has played along side then he'd be just as effective.
Take Fletcher out the Man U squad and they would be no worse off at all in my opinion. I think that's more down to the type of player he is though as opposed to his actual ability as a footballer.

Broken Gnome
13-08-2009, 05:41 PM
Fletcher is a decent player but anybody who thinks he'd be getting a game for Man United if Ferguson wasn't the manager there is kidding themselves.


He's managed to win over the whole Man Utd support last season. You'd have been far from alone with those suspicions before, but last season he proved himself as far more than just a manager's favourite.

Bet you every other manager in the Premiership, bar maybe Ancelotti or Benitez, would take him in a flash. Puts him well above any of his Scotland peers straight away.

DirtyDeeds
13-08-2009, 06:26 PM
As others have alluded to, we are using Fletcher in completely the wrong manner. Some dense folk expect that, because he plays for MU, he can play for Scotland and take the ball, beat three men, play a one-two and score. This is nonsonse for so many reasons.

He has been excellent at United for two seasons now being a link man between defence and midfield, and linking the midfield itself together, kind of in the Didier Deschamps 'water carrier' role. He does it tremendously, he doesnt need to spray 60 yard passes, mainly because he cant. Unfortunately, we see this MU 'superstar' and assume hes not only the best player in our team but better than the players in the other side as well.

Now we are thankfully rid of the The Crab, why cant Fletcher by allowed to do that role for Scotland? We have plenty guys who can bomb on from midfield and create - Brown, Maloney, Commons, Morrison(who is particularly excellent and wasted in the Championship) immediately spring to mind.

We're getting into a situation that England found themselves in trying to accomodate all the biggest names, Gerrard sitting deep etc, and they were honkin! Capello now picks the best players to execute the plan, we need to follow suit, the guy kind of knows what hes talking about. I really felt Burley would be the right man to get us going places, but hes not using the tools we have correctly.

We arent as s**** as we think, but unfortunately our managers decision making is

blackpoolhibs
13-08-2009, 06:50 PM
As others have alluded to, we are using Fletcher in completely the wrong manner. Some dense folk expect that, because he plays for MU, he can play for Scotland and take the ball, beat three men, play a one-two and score. This is nonsonse for so many reasons.

He has been excellent at United for two seasons now being a link man between defence and midfield, and linking the midfield itself together, kind of in the Didier Deschamps 'water carrier' role. He does it tremendously, he doesnt need to spray 60 yard passes, mainly because he cant. Unfortunately, we see this MU 'superstar' and assume hes not only the best player in our team but better than the players in the other side as well.

Now we are thankfully rid of the The Crab, why cant Fletcher by allowed to do that role for Scotland? We have plenty guys who can bomb on from midfield and create - Brown, Maloney, Commons, Morrison(who is particularly excellent and wasted in the Championship) immediately spring to mind.

We're getting into a situation that England found themselves in trying to accomodate all the biggest names, Gerrard sitting deep etc, and they were honkin! Capello now picks the best players to execute the plan, we need to follow suit, the guy kind of knows what hes talking about. I really felt Burley would be the right man to get us going places, but hes not using the tools we have correctly.

We arent as s**** as we think, but unfortunately our managers decision making is
:top marks I agree with every word, barr the commons bit.:thumbsup:

kev1875
13-08-2009, 09:27 PM
As others have alluded to, we are using Fletcher in completely the wrong manner. Some dense folk expect that, because he plays for MU, he can play for Scotland and take the ball, beat three men, play a one-two and score. This is nonsonse for so many reasons.

He has been excellent at United for two seasons now being a link man between defence and midfield, and linking the midfield itself together, kind of in the Didier Deschamps 'water carrier' role. He does it tremendously, he doesnt need to spray 60 yard passes, mainly because he cant. Unfortunately, we see this MU 'superstar' and assume hes not only the best player in our team but better than the players in the other side as well.

Now we are thankfully rid of the The Crab, why cant Fletcher by allowed to do that role for Scotland? We have plenty guys who can bomb on from midfield and create - Brown, Maloney, Commons, Morrison(who is particularly excellent and wasted in the Championship) immediately spring to mind.

We're getting into a situation that England found themselves in trying to accomodate all the biggest names, Gerrard sitting deep etc, and they were honkin! Capello now picks the best players to execute the plan, we need to follow suit, the guy kind of knows what hes talking about. I really felt Burley would be the right man to get us going places, but hes not using the tools we have correctly.

We arent as s**** as we think, but unfortunately our managers decision making is

Absolutely, anyone who thinks Graham Alexander is an international class midfielder shouldn't be anywhere near a dugout. As soon as i seen that team i knew we'd get pumped.