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Ollie Reed
12-08-2009, 06:41 PM
Get tae ****.

blackpoolhibs
12-08-2009, 06:53 PM
:top marks:agree:

Frogga
12-08-2009, 06:53 PM
Go now. For the good of yourselves and the team.

woody47
12-08-2009, 06:55 PM
And take that excuse of a forward miller with you. :grr:

PISTOL1875
12-08-2009, 06:56 PM
And take that excuse of a forward miller with you. :grr:

Along with Alexander and Commons...........

libernian
12-08-2009, 06:58 PM
WE GOT 2MILLION FOR THAT WASTE OF SPACE!!!! just get rid of him - he is terrible, no skill whatsoever totally out of his depth.

burley doesnt have a clue - norway just hoof it so we put five in midfield - whats the point in that if there not gonna get the ball. GET TAE!

sauzee_4
12-08-2009, 07:01 PM
Just get the team tae f***, we've got zero quality there whatsoever.

When you've got Graham Alexander, Kris Commons, Callum Davidson and David Marshall in your team what chance have you got?

Not an ounce of F***in technique in the team whatsoever. Can't control a ball, can't pass a ball, Can't spot a pass.

Embarrassed to be Scottish tonight.

Hibster
12-08-2009, 07:01 PM
Wouldn't make any difference. We don't have the players - its that simple

Cracker
12-08-2009, 07:06 PM
Just get the team tae f***, we've got zero quality there whatsoever.

When you've got Graham Alexander, Kris Commons, Callum Davidson and David Marshall in your team what chance have you got?

Not an ounce of F***in technique in the team whatsoever. Can't control a ball, can't pass a ball, Can't spot a pass.

Embarrassed to be Scottish tonight.

Add that second rate clown Berra to the list!

Hiber-nation
12-08-2009, 07:07 PM
Wouldn't make any difference. We don't have the players - its that simple

Yep, our 3 best players - Fletcher, Brown and Hutton - were all rank rotten. What chance to the rest have? Mind you if Burley really thought Scott Brown was match fit then I do wonder.

Scottish fitba has taken a battering in recent weeks and all we can hope for is for that to continue when hearts visit Zagreb.

Greenblood70
12-08-2009, 07:11 PM
Yep, our 3 best players - Fletcher, Brown and Hutton - were all rank rotten. What chance to the rest have? Mind you if Burley really thought Scott Brown was match fit then I do wonder.

Scottish fitba has taken a battering in recent weeks and all we can hope for is for that to continue when hearts visit Zagreb.

Heh heh...that cheered me up.:top marks

Burley out.

Scorrie
12-08-2009, 07:12 PM
Got tae wonder if the players want to play for these three after boozegate and all that. That was desperate. nae tactics and piss poor positional selection as well. woeful. goodness knows what the Dutch will do to us on the basis of that tem and management

ScottB
12-08-2009, 07:19 PM
Is now the time for a debate on who replaces him?

Obviously the weegie media will probably call for Souness and Strachan... Hell no is my response.

Can't think of a name, but I wouldn't be adverse to a foreigner again.

MrRobot
12-08-2009, 07:20 PM
Miller is absolutely shocking. Total rank. Should not play for Scotland, simply not good enough.
McFadden doesn't even get a start over him, and he is one of the best players in the team.

Whittaker should get a game IMO and I dont see why Garry O'Connor doesn't even get a calll up(if he is fit) when Miller does.

Need to stop picking favourites and start picking players who can actually play football.

Hiber-nation
12-08-2009, 07:24 PM
Miller is absolutely shocking. Total rank. Should not play for Scotland, simply not good enough.
McFadden doesn't even get a start over him, and he is one of the best players in the team.

Whittaker should get a game IMO and I dont see why Garry O'Connor doesn't even get a calll up(if he is fit) when Miller does.

Need to stop picking favourites and start picking players who can actually play football.

Because he feigned injury and got booked deliberately to avoid Scotland away trips.

It'll all be fine when Iwelumo's fit again :wink:

Frazerbob
12-08-2009, 07:26 PM
And take that excuse of a forward miller with you. :grr:

Two people to blame for tonights debacle and Miller isn't one of them.

Caldwell 100% deserved to be sent off. He does the same every week in the SPL but obviously the Weedgie loving refs don't pull him up. His minute of madness cost us the game IMO.

Burley has been a joke since day one. He took over a team that was riding high and playing a style of football that was working for us. Burley has taken us back ten years. He has no clue when it come to tactics, he has lost the respect of the players and continues to play guys like Commons and Alexander. He even sound clueless and passionless when ever he gets interviewed.

Miller, once again, was given a thankless task. Burley told us all he would attack Norway yet played ONE up front again. The chance Miller had was a great tackle/clearance from a snap chance. I don't blame him.........this time.

Toaods
12-08-2009, 07:29 PM
Embarrassed to be Scottish tonight.

never an embarrassment to be Scottish my friend....will agree 100% that the team today were absolutely embarrassing though...:wink:

libernian
12-08-2009, 07:29 PM
Is now the time for a debate on who replaces him?

Obviously the weegie media will probably call for Souness and Strachan... Hell no is my response.

Can't think of a name, but I wouldn't be adverse to a foreigner again.

would definately take him, without a doubt.

Frazerbob
12-08-2009, 07:32 PM
Miller is absolutely shocking. Total rank. Should not play for Scotland, simply not good enough.
McFadden doesn't even get a start over him, and he is one of the best players in the team.

Whittaker should get a game IMO and I dont see why Garry O'Connor doesn't even get a calll up(if he is fit) when Miller does.

Need to stop picking favourites and start picking players who can actually play football.

McFadden has done NOTHING since his goal in Paris. He is not the great player he is made out to be. Yes, he'd be in my squad and would sometimes be in the starting 11 but he's not the saviour I'm afraid. He is also a lazy wee ***** when things aren't going for him. Miller has to be the striker when we play only one up front, which is usually the case. We should not have gone one up front tonight however.

O'Connor can GTF as far as I'm concerned. He didn't want to play for our country remember so why should he be picked? Besides, what exactly has he done recently to warrant a place in the squad?

GreenPJ
12-08-2009, 07:34 PM
Gordon Smith should do one thing properly and approach Levein and see if he is interested in the job. Tactically he is very good, he is a passionate Scotsman and I think he would pick the right players as well at least play 2 up front neither of which is Miller.

I liked Burley initially getting the job as he wasn't a Largs man, however, I think he has actually lost the players (probably since boozegate but maybe even before) and as a result there is no scope other than for him to go.

Despite that I still think we will finish second in the group as am sure Macednonia and Norway and Iceland will all take points off of each other.

hibee_girl
12-08-2009, 07:34 PM
McFadden has done NOTHING since his goal in Paris. He is not the great player he is made out to be. Yes, he'd be in my squad and would sometimes be in the starting 11 but he's not the saviour I'm afraid. He is also a lazy wee ***** when things aren't going for him. Miller has to be the striker when we play only one up front, which is usually the case. We should not have gone one up front tonight however.

O'Connor can GTF as far as I'm concerned. He didn't want to play for our country remember so why should he be picked? Besides, what exactly has he done recently to warrant a place in the squad?

:agree:

Said the exact same thing tonight

Jonnyboy
12-08-2009, 07:34 PM
Biggest culprit of all? The SFA for agreeing to play the fixture on this date. None of our players have kicked a ball in earnest yet but we're pitched in against a side half way through its season. Brown, Fletcher etc are better players than what we saw from them tonight but if it's scapegoats we're looking for I'd start with a certain Gordon Smith :grr:

ArabHibee
12-08-2009, 07:39 PM
Biggest culprit of all? The SFA for agreeing to play the fixture on this date. None of our players have kicked a ball in earnest yet but we're pitched in against a side half way through its season. Brown, Fletcher etc are better players than what we saw from them tonight but if it's scapegoats we're looking for I'd start with a certain Gordon Smith :grr:

:agree: Totally agree. Completely stupid date to have a qualifying match on.

blackpoolhibs
12-08-2009, 07:40 PM
Biggest culprit of all? The SFA for agreeing to play the fixture on this date. None of our players have kicked a ball in earnest yet but we're pitched in against a side half way through its season. Brown, Fletcher etc are better players than what we saw from them tonight but if it's scapegoats we're looking for I'd start with a certain Gordon Smith :grr:

You are right john, the game should never have been allowed to be played this early. Although our manager did not cover himself in glory, with bad team selections, and negative tactics. He did not help the situation.

hibee_girl
12-08-2009, 07:41 PM
Biggest culprit of all? The SFA for agreeing to play the fixture on this date. None of our players have kicked a ball in earnest yet but we're pitched in against a side half way through its season. Brown, Fletcher etc are better players than what we saw from them tonight but if it's scapegoats we're looking for I'd start with a certain Gordon Smith :grr:

:agree:

Jonnyboy
12-08-2009, 07:42 PM
You are right john, the game should never have been allowed to be played this early. Although our manager did not cover himself in glory, with bad team selections, and negative tactics. He did not help the situation.

Burley made mistakes that's true but no matter who he picked we'd have had trouble due to the lack of game time Garry :agree:

ScottB
12-08-2009, 07:43 PM
Biggest culprit of all? The SFA for agreeing to play the fixture on this date. None of our players have kicked a ball in earnest yet but we're pitched in against a side half way through its season. Brown, Fletcher etc are better players than what we saw from them tonight but if it's scapegoats we're looking for I'd start with a certain Gordon Smith :grr:

How many of their squad are actually from summer football leagues though? More than a few are Premiership based.

--------
12-08-2009, 07:43 PM
Biggest culprit of all? The SFA for agreeing to play the fixture on this date. None of our players have kicked a ball in earnest yet but we're pitched in against a side half way through its season. Brown, Fletcher etc are better players than what we saw from them tonight but if it's scapegoats we're looking for I'd start with a certain Gordon Smith :grr:


That too.

Bring back Jim Farry. :devil:

hibs1875aye
12-08-2009, 07:44 PM
The wee pisshead burley has been ***** since he got the job. He seemed like a shout at the time, its not workd and has never worked. He should piss off now whilst we still have a mathematical chance. I don't know who we should get....andy ****ing pandy would have more skills than burley and he can't even speak!

Toaods
12-08-2009, 07:44 PM
truth be told we're just guff. We live on past memories when we were a good solid world level team, now others have passed us by. The fact we're in Europe helps our seeding. If we were to play a group full of African teams with every game in Glasgow we'd be lucky to scratch a win.

We rarely score home or away, don't exactly pile forward like the Irish try to do.

Can't see uncle George getting the boot now but when it does happen, expect Alex Miller to stroll into town.

Jonnyboy
12-08-2009, 07:45 PM
How many of their squad are actually from summer football leagues though? More than a few are Premiership based.

A few yes but most are with Norwegian clubs AFAIK Scott

blackpoolhibs
12-08-2009, 07:47 PM
Burley made mistakes that's true but no matter who he picked we'd have had trouble due to the lack of game time Garry :agree:

Aye, more reason to get your team and tactics right.:wink: PS only one r in Gary.:greengrin

ScottB
12-08-2009, 07:48 PM
A few yes but most are with Norwegian clubs AFAIK Scott

Fair enough then.

I just hope all the media chat about summer football doesn't become an excuse for this, though considering the medias already strained relationship with Burley I can't see it.

Frazerbob
12-08-2009, 07:48 PM
Biggest culprit of all? The SFA for agreeing to play the fixture on this date. None of our players have kicked a ball in earnest yet but we're pitched in against a side half way through its season. Brown, Fletcher etc are better players than what we saw from them tonight but if it's scapegoats we're looking for I'd start with a certain Gordon Smith :grr:

I actually thought the fixture date would have helped us. Craig Gordon was the only injury and no dubious call offs. The big balls up was the Macedonia fixture. Why we agreed to play them on a Saturday afternoon in the middle of summer still baffles me. I struggled standing on the terrace, never mind having to play football in that heat. That game set the tone for the entire campaign.

Toaods
12-08-2009, 07:50 PM
Haageland (Fulham)

Carew(Villa)

J A Riise (Spain)

M G Pedersen (Blackburn)

I'm sure they said the Deek lookalike plays in Germany

keeper is irrelevant

reckon that will be a max of 5 playing in Norway.

Toaods
12-08-2009, 07:51 PM
I actually thought the fixture date would have helped us. Craig Gordon was the only injury and no dubious call offs. The big balls up was the Macedonia fixture. Why we agreed to play them on a Saturday afternoon in the middle of summer still baffles me. I struggled standing on the terrace, never mind having to play football in that heat. That game set the tone for the entire campaign.


I got the impression we can only agree the date, not the timing, stadium,etc. but in such extremities it's a sporting act to play the KO later in the day.

cad
12-08-2009, 07:55 PM
Get tae ****.



Spot on, :top marks

Frazerbob
12-08-2009, 07:58 PM
I got the impression we can only agree the date, not the timing, stadium,etc. but in such extremities it's a sporting act to play the KO later in the day.

Kick off times are agreed between TV companies and both teams. Macedonia had no provision for flood lights which meant it had to be played in daylight. Setanta were happy for the game to be played at 8pm (our time) and as they were paying the cash, Macedonia would have been happy too. Only issue was the flood lights.

The Dutch FA funded the instalation of temp flood lights to enable their game the following Wednesday to take place at night. It cost £4000 IIRC. Why couldn't the SFA do the same?

With the amount of available dates due to the small group, there was no need to agree to the game in summer full stop.

Toaods
12-08-2009, 07:58 PM
Anyone see SKy's pre match vid with David Tanner speaking to Pressley?


made you want to go slash your wrists...not an ounce of enthusiasm to be seen etched on that disfigured coupon.

blackpoolhibs
12-08-2009, 08:02 PM
Anyone see SKy's pre match vid with David Tanner speaking to Pressley?


made you want to go slash your wrists...not an ounce of enthusiasm to be seen etched on that disfigured coupon.

I did, straight away i thought, this is what macar must hear when his computer is talking to him.:wink:

snooky
12-08-2009, 08:29 PM
Two people to blame for tonights debacle and Miller isn't one of them.

Caldwell 100% deserved to be sent off. He does the same every week in the SPL but obviously the Weedgie loving refs don't pull him up. His minute of madness cost us the game IMO....................

.
:agree: When GC was with us he fouled in almost every challenge. He gets away with it far more with the Hula-hoops

woody47
12-08-2009, 08:33 PM
Two people to blame for tonights debacle and Miller isn't one of them.

Caldwell 100% deserved to be sent off. He does the same every week in the SPL but obviously the Weedgie loving refs don't pull him up. His minute of madness cost us the game IMO.

Burley has been a joke since day one. He took over a team that was riding high and playing a style of football that was working for us. Burley has taken us back ten years. He has no clue when it come to tactics, he has lost the respect of the players and continues to play guys like Commons and Alexander. He even sound clueless and passionless when ever he gets interviewed.

Miller, once again, was given a thankless task. Burley told us all he would attack Norway yet played ONE up front again. The chance Miller had was a great tackle/clearance from a snap chance. I don't blame him.........this time.

Sorry but does he not know how to use his left foot? If Fletcher had been in the same position but needed to use his right he would have been slated by this board for missing. Miller is p!sh. can't beat a player to save himself and most of the times his first touch is shocking.
As I already said Mileer can jump in the same taxi as the three muppets in charge.:bye:

Perspective
12-08-2009, 08:51 PM
Ok, I'll try to defend Burley.

No-one can say he's bottled the big decisions as Scotland boss. I applaud him for trying to modernise us as a footballing nation, getting the ball down and passing it. I think he also realises that 4-4-2 is an increasingly archaic system at the top level, but he has a set of players who aren't flexibile enough to adapt with only a few days' preparation. He's also gradually lowering the average age of the team.

He's a passionate guy who is clearly giving it his all and I think he still has more to give. I'm not enthused by any of the potential candidates put forward to replace him - especially Souness.

The Daily Record and Jim Traynor have done their best to de-stabalise him and Scotland, as they did with us under Collins.

I'm not suggesting he hasn't made mistakes, but I don't think it's been all bad. He'll be slaughtered tomorrow and I genuinely feel for the guy.

Sexton
12-08-2009, 08:52 PM
McFadden has done NOTHING since his goal in Paris. He is not the great player he is made out to be. Yes, he'd be in my squad and would sometimes be in the starting 11 but he's not the saviour I'm afraid. He is also a lazy wee ***** when things aren't going for him. Miller has to be the striker when we play only one up front, which is usually the case. We should not have gone one up front tonight however.

O'Connor can GTF as far as I'm concerned. He didn't want to play for our country remember so why should he be picked? Besides, what exactly has he done recently to warrant a place in the squad?

keeper should've saved it:agree:

Toaods
12-08-2009, 08:52 PM
..bout time we gave Lexo the call....:duck:

MrRobot
12-08-2009, 09:16 PM
McFadden has done NOTHING since his goal in Paris. He is not the great player he is made out to be. Yes, he'd be in my squad and would sometimes be in the starting 11 but he's not the saviour I'm afraid. He is also a lazy wee ***** when things aren't going for him. Miller has to be the striker when we play only one up front, which is usually the case. We should not have gone one up front tonight however.

O'Connor can GTF as far as I'm concerned. He didn't want to play for our country remember so why should he be picked? Besides, what exactly has he done recently to warrant a place in the squad?


Fair point about O'Connor. McFadden however does bring a bit of spark to the team. Granted, he is a bit over rated, but he is still a good player(by that I mean just not the god he is made out to be)

Both though should be in the team ahead of Miller. He is totally trousers.


Brown was mince tonight, can't pass for shi*e the now. Not fit granted, but he isn't the same player he was at Hibs, gone back majorly. Moved too soon.

Thankfully,Weir will be back from injury soon and be in the starting 11 again. :bitchy:

majorhibs
12-08-2009, 09:39 PM
Ok, I'll try to defend Burley.

No-one can say he's bottled the big decisions as Scotland boss. I applaud him for trying to modernise us as a footballing nation, getting the ball down and passing it. I think he also realises that 4-4-2 is an increasingly archaic system at the top level, but he has a set of players who aren't flexibile enough to adapt with only a few days' preparation. He's also gradually lowering the average age of the team.

He's a passionate guy who is clearly giving it his all and I think he still has more to give. I'm not enthused by any of the potential candidates put forward to replace him - especially Souness.

The Daily Record and Jim Traynor have done their best to de-stabalise him and Scotland, as they did with us under Collins.

I'm not suggesting he hasn't made mistakes, but I don't think it's been all bad. He'll be slaughtered tomorrow and I genuinely feel for the guy.

4-4-2 is archaic at the top level? I think sometimes people give "modern" players too much credit, my perception of your posts is you think a good bit about what your seeing, but not all players operate like that, is it not possible nowadays "coaches" who sit back and see the big picture are forgetting that for the guy out on the park doesnt have the "overview" they do, if your operating right at the top with players who can play AND follow a game all fair and well but as the national team has 2-3-4 days then its - action maybe with what we have and the limited time the players at our disposal have together before a game we should be looking more towards doing what we do best, and imo that is not playing technical but playing to get a result, not going ultra defensive like some seem to believe, but utilising what we can from our league where the majority of our players started or currently play, trying to play a different system means you need the personnel to adapt, but we seem to have lost any sort of belief in "us" and want to do it like everybody else. Well our recent record is no good, qualifying 5 times in a row was a big deal when I was a bairn, now weve missed out 3 times in a row, I dont think we need more "formations" I think we need national pride in the team to start again, then at least one of these top managers we seem to be producing nowadays will fancy the Scotland job again, then we will get a manager personally calling players at WHATEVER club saying I expect you here, the call being answered, the fans back on line seeing the players they are watching are in it for the jerseys, it all builds, imagine we had a wee Billy Bremner the now, 5'4" and in the Scotland jersey he looked about 17 feet tall, ach dreams gone south for another world cup and I'm a wee bit sore at that thought yet again, there really is only one thing left for it- Hibs just HAVE to make it to the group stages of the Europa cup next year! :greengrin

Judas Iscariot
12-08-2009, 09:39 PM
Burley - Jakey jake bag ex yam manager :jamboak:

Pressley - Caveman chewbacca goon ex yam captain :jamboak:

Butcher - English :rolleyes:

That'll be the problem then..

Perspective
12-08-2009, 09:50 PM
4-4-2 is archaic at the top level? I think sometimes people give "modern" players too much credit, my perception of your posts is you think a good bit about what your seeing, but not all players operate like that, is it not possible nowadays "coaches" who sit back and see the big picture are forgetting that for the guy out on the park doesnt have the "overview" they do, if your operating right at the top with players who can play AND follow a game all fair and well but as the national team has 2-3-4 days then its - action maybe with what we have and the limited time the players at our disposal have together before a game we should be looking more towards doing what we do best, and imo that is not playing technical but playing to get a result, not going ultra defensive like some seem to believe, but utilising what we can from our league where the majority of our players started or currently play, trying to play a different system means you need the personnel to adapt, but we seem to have lost any sort of belief in "us" and want to do it like everybody else. Well our recent record is no good, qualifying 5 times in a row was a big deal when I was a bairn, now weve missed out 3 times in a row, I dont think we need more "formations" I think we need national pride in the team to start again, then at least one of these top managers we seem to be producing nowadays will fancy the Scotland job again, then we will get a manager personally calling players at WHATEVER club saying I expect you here, the call being answered, the fans back on line seeing the players they are watching are in it for the jerseys, it all builds, imagine we had a wee Billy Bremner the now, 5'4" and in the Scotland jersey he looked about 17 feet tall, ach dreams gone south for another world cup and I'm a wee bit sore at that thought yet again, there really is only one thing left for it- Hibs just HAVE to make it to the group stages of the Europa cup next year! :greengrin

I take your point, but I just don't think playing 'to our strengths' will get us anywhere at that level.

If our strengths are relying on a high tempo, physical game then, as far as I can see, we're been surpassed already on the athleticism front.

I think we have to change as a nation and become more comfortable on the ball, to be at ease passing it about and not panic when an opposition player comes within ten yards of you.

I just think if a young player grows and develops and all he's ever used to is playing a specific role in a 4-4-2 then he'll never become the total footballer that he could be. Don't the Dutch take their most gifted talents in many case and put them in the centre of defence?

Ed De Gramo
12-08-2009, 09:50 PM
Burley GTF :bye::bye::bye:

Take the scuffy barsteward and the other erse with you :agree:

Absolute embarrassment....squad picking a disgrace...there must surely be a better Scottish left back than Callum Davidson :grr::grr:

Paul Fartley should have started ahead of Graham Alexander (if Weir's too old to play for Scotland, then Alexander must be nearing the retirement home)

Kenny Miller couldn't score in a brothel and is just a fat Gramo lookalike...

Burley GTF!!!!!!!!!!!!

Raging tonight in case it was apparent

Toaods
12-08-2009, 09:51 PM
You could be forgiven that such a tactical mess could be based on a scouting report of a total clown like Alex Smith...:wink:

Randerson_4
12-08-2009, 09:51 PM
I was prepared to give Burley a chance. Even after Boozegate I still thought if he can deliver then we shouldnt slag him off.

BUT, Tonight, getting beat of Norway 4-0 isnt good enough. People say he went and attacked them tonight, he played 5 in midfield, including an holding midfielder. Why? Norway play the ball long all the time anyway! Fletcher does the role of holding midfielder brilliantly anyway. As said on another thread, thats what makes him a 1st pick for Man Utd!!

Its a disgrace

Toaods
12-08-2009, 09:56 PM
much as we hate him, Levein who has been known to set some good tactics (ie more than the odd two goal deficit pulled back) said at half-time we needed Fletch on, presumably to lift the pace and try to hold the ball up for a breakout. and Hartley to sit in front of Carew to cut-off the supply.

Burley never even warmed either of them up from what I saw.

Hibby 2005
12-08-2009, 10:06 PM
Usual scapegoats, has to be the Manager, nothing to do with the players, Scotland, SPL, loada pish I'm afraid, Scott Brown and Caldwell!!!!! Norway were crap too by the way which says it all.

Jonnyboy
12-08-2009, 10:08 PM
Aye, more reason to get your team and tactics right.:wink: PS only one r in Gary.:greengrin

Trouble with your r's :greengrin

Hibby 2005
12-08-2009, 10:29 PM
Ooh, blame the Manager, blame the Manager, blame the Manager, ooh, blame the Manager, blame the Manager, etc., etc., etc. - apologies to the Smiths.

I mean, players on 5, 8, 10 grand a week shouldn't be expected to beat a bunch of players from Norway?

Mag7
12-08-2009, 10:42 PM
keeper should've saved it:agree:

The wins over France in the last qualifying campaign fooled a lot of us into thinking Scotland are better than they are. France were actually crap, as their abysmal World Cup campaign proved. Scotland were shown up in the game that really mattered, away to Georgia, but that tends to get glossed over by those supposedly legendary wins over the French. It was the usual 'glorious' failure. Now it's just inglorious failure.

Toaods
12-08-2009, 10:46 PM
keeper should've saved it:agree:


funnily enough watched the Israelis lose a goal from a free kick too but their goalkeeper dived full length and although he managed to make contact with the ball was never keeping iit out.

Marshall on the other hand looked like a dog having a dump in Inverleith Park.

Jonnyboy
12-08-2009, 10:48 PM
Why didn't the players in the wall jump at the fourth goal? Made Marshall look even more inept than he is :confused:

Hibby 2005
12-08-2009, 10:51 PM
I think Scott Brown should be credited with an assist for the 1st Norway goal?

blackpoolhibs
12-08-2009, 11:24 PM
Maybe Burley just needs a bit more time, a little patience could see us get the rewards we deserve in a couple of years.:wink:

Hibby 2005
12-08-2009, 11:32 PM
Maybe the players just need to adjust, new Manager, etc. :greengrin

(((Fergus)))
13-08-2009, 04:54 AM
Maybe we need to lower our expectations and/or improve the quality of the young people we are producing. Maybe take away their computers, drink and drugs and play football with them instead.

manx hibee
13-08-2009, 05:54 AM
And take that excuse of a forward miller with you. :grr:
cant believe rankers rate this muppet they are welcome to him
the lad couldn't beat an egg ! international class my :asshole: mcfadden did more by comin on tonight

majorhibs
13-08-2009, 06:15 AM
I take your point, but I just don't think playing 'to our strengths' will get us anywhere at that level.

If our strengths are relying on a high tempo, physical game then, as far as I can see, we're been surpassed already on the athleticism front.

I think we have to change as a nation and become more comfortable on the ball, to be at ease passing it about and not panic when an opposition player comes within ten yards of you.

I just think if a young player grows and develops and all he's ever used to is playing a specific role in a 4-4-2 then he'll never become the total footballer that he could be. Don't the Dutch take their most gifted talents in many case and put them in the centre of defence?

Aye youve got a point there, our players nowadays just dont seem to be comfortable on the ball, seeing an international team like the USA, their players seem to play in a team but the individuals also seem to have a confidence on the ball and lack of fear for a better phrase that our players dont seem to posess. Whatever the answer, this management setup's run its course, having to face missing a tournament with 3 games still to go is not nearly good enough. This experiment has failed badly, the next appointment needs to be someone to take us forward, and if that doesnt happen then the management AND the people making the appointment should be held accountable. Our nation does have players to take us forward imo, just a lack of belief and cohesion thats been building for too long. This "small nation" guff just doesnt do it for me. An easy get out for lazy types far as I'm concerned.

bighairyfaeleith
13-08-2009, 07:04 AM
Ok, I'll try to defend Burley.

No-one can say he's bottled the big decisions as Scotland boss. I applaud him for trying to modernise us as a footballing nation, getting the ball down and passing it. I think he also realises that 4-4-2 is an increasingly archaic system at the top level, but he has a set of players who aren't flexibile enough to adapt with only a few days' preparation. He's also gradually lowering the average age of the team.

He's a passionate guy who is clearly giving it his all and I think he still has more to give. I'm not enthused by any of the potential candidates put forward to replace him - especially Souness.

The Daily Record and Jim Traynor have done their best to de-stabalise him and Scotland, as they did with us under Collins.

I'm not suggesting he hasn't made mistakes, but I don't think it's been all bad. He'll be slaughtered tomorrow and I genuinely feel for the guy.


:top marks

Joe Baker II
13-08-2009, 09:36 AM
Ok, I'll try to defend Burley.

No-one can say he's bottled the big decisions as Scotland boss. I applaud him for trying to modernise us as a footballing nation, getting the ball down and passing it. I think he also realises that 4-4-2 is an increasingly archaic system at the top level, but he has a set of players who aren't flexibile enough to adapt with only a few days' preparation. He's also gradually lowering the average age of the team.

He's a passionate guy who is clearly giving it his all and I think he still has more to give. I'm not enthused by any of the potential candidates put forward to replace him - especially Souness.

The Daily Record and Jim Traynor have done their best to de-stabalise him and Scotland, as they did with us under Collins.

I'm not suggesting he hasn't made mistakes, but I don't think it's been all bad. He'll be slaughtered tomorrow and I genuinely feel for the guy.

I agree with what you are saying but just think it is not working out for Burley - every decision he makes is going wrong. Iwelumo and Boyd , McGregor v Holland, sanctioning drinking and aftermath, Marshall in goal last night though not directly to blame, McCulloch, fixture schedule etc. Unlike Smith and McLeish think he must have lost dressing room and will have to go - and like it or not he has to have a working relationship with media which he doesn't seem to.

Perspective
13-08-2009, 10:45 AM
I agree with what you are saying but just think it is not working out for Burley - every decision he makes is going wrong. Iwelumo and Boyd , McGregor v Holland, sanctioning drinking and aftermath, Marshall in goal last night though not directly to blame, McCulloch, fixture schedule etc. Unlike Smith and McLeish think he must have lost dressing room and will have to go - and like it or not he has to have a working relationship with media which he doesn't seem to.

I'd question whether all these decisions are wrong.

Take Iwelumo. I thought he made a real impact on the game (as did Fletcher) and we looked far more likely to score. He provided a real physical option held the ball up and but for an inch he'd have been a hero. That sort of miss could happen to anyone.

McGregor v Holland I'll give you. I think he wanted to go with Gordon but was caught up by the mainstream calls for the 'match-fit' McGregor to play. He rectified that straight away for the Iceland game and Gordon was immense.

Also, wasn't it proven that Burley had nothing to do with the drinking episode. It might have happened on his watch, but I'm sure it was the thenew sports scientist and player liason manager who okayed it. I don't think he's lost the dressing room, it's a bonus that players like McCulloch have called it quits but I do agree that he must present himself better with the media. Having said that, The Record have been out to get him since day one, after Traynor failed to convince the SFA that Souness was the man.

hibs1875aye
13-08-2009, 11:00 AM
I dont like Smith or Ginger Judas Prick. I dont like them because they are sneaky rangers traiters but, they both had something Burley is lacking in - management skills. They both done far more and you could SEE a difference in Scotland with both those getts in charge, hate to admit it.

From the first game to his last, Burleys team have LOOKED *****. They havent inspired. He's been unlucky has he? NO. He was lucky the results in this group went the way they did with some "shockers" along the way from the other teams otherwise we'd already be out and as it stands we have real outside chance if we are lucky.

Burley can piss off and take his sidekicks with him. I dont know who should get the job but I do know he is doing nothing for Scotland and we are going backwards fast.:grr:

snooky
13-08-2009, 04:47 PM
Why didn't the players in the wall jump at the fourth goal? Made Marshall look even more inept than he is :confused:

Yeh, I noticed that too, JB.
I think they were all waiting for Riise to take it and were totally caught out when the other chappie nipped in and dinked it in the net.

In other words...........

defence = zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Joe Baker II
14-08-2009, 09:24 AM
I'd question whether all these decisions are wrong.

Take Iwelumo. I thought he made a real impact on the game (as did Fletcher) and we looked far more likely to score. He provided a real physical option held the ball up and but for an inch he'd have been a hero. That sort of miss could happen to anyone.

McGregor v Holland I'll give you. I think he wanted to go with Gordon but was caught up by the mainstream calls for the 'match-fit' McGregor to play. He rectified that straight away for the Iceland game and Gordon was immense.

Also, wasn't it proven that Burley had nothing to do with the drinking episode. It might have happened on his watch, but I'm sure it was the thenew sports scientist and player liason manager who okayed it. I don't think he's lost the dressing room, it's a bonus that players like McCulloch have called it quits but I do agree that he must present himself better with the media. Having said that, The Record have been out to get him since day one, after Traynor failed to convince the SFA that Souness was the man.

I agree some of these decisions were closer calls at the time than they seem now but unfortunately things are not working out for him.

Hibs On Tour
14-08-2009, 09:51 AM
Two people to blame for tonights debacle and Miller isn't one of them.

Caldwell 100% deserved to be sent off. He does the same every week in the SPL but obviously the Weedgie loving refs don't pull him up. His minute of madness cost us the game IMO.

Burley has been a joke since day one. He took over a team that was riding high and playing a style of football that was working for us. Burley has taken us back ten years. He has no clue when it come to tactics, he has lost the respect of the players and continues to play guys like Commons and Alexander. He even sound clueless and passionless when ever he gets interviewed.

Miller, once again, was given a thankless task. Burley told us all he would attack Norway yet played ONE up front again. The chance Miller had was a great tackle/clearance from a snap chance. I don't blame him.........this time.

On. The. Money. 100%

Caldwell is a massively over-hyped bombscare of a player. Gets away with same crap week in, week out in the SPL for two reasons: he's now OF and the standard he's up against is ******.

Burley is a joke - combined with his pal Smith and the jokers who make things up as they go along. Always thought Burley got carried up in his own hype as when he was at 'that lot' he inherited a decent squad, easily the most expensive outside the OF. Got way more hype for his results than was merited I believe [good as they were] and think his getting bombed just prevented what I thought was the inevitable crash and burn of their season to come.

Miller is the same player he always was. Decent player, hard grafter and does create chances. Unfortunately, was never the best at sticking said chances away, even when with us. Decent striker but not a goalscorer...

This campaign is ****ed. Burley out now and give the new guy at least some competitive games to start them out instead of meaningless friendlies...

Hibs On Tour
14-08-2009, 10:04 AM
I take your point, but I just don't think playing 'to our strengths' will get us anywhere at that level.

If our strengths are relying on a high tempo, physical game then, as far as I can see, we're been surpassed already on the athleticism front.

I think we have to change as a nation and become more comfortable on the ball, to be at ease passing it about and not panic when an opposition player comes within ten yards of you.

I just think if a young player grows and develops and all he's ever used to is playing a specific role in a 4-4-2 then he'll never become the total footballer that he could be. Don't the Dutch take their most gifted talents in many case and put them in the centre of defence?

Think there is a major difference between being realistic and hoping for a situation that none of us are likely to see. "I think we have to change as a nation" is all very well and good but you can't just say it and expect it to happen. There would have to be a sea-change of attitudes within the Scottish football authorities to even begin any process that would lead to any chance of that and - even if that were to happen [which it won't] - it would take many years to actually bring us to the point where it delivered tangible improvement.

At present, the best we can hope for is to put someone in place as manager who knows how to get the best out of the [crap] raw material we have to work with. That means getting the players fired up and playing with passion. Digging in. We don't have great technical ability at present so there is little point in trying to base our play on something we don't possess, no?

Pretending we're something we're not isn't the answer, no matter how much we might want it to be...

Hibster
14-08-2009, 11:47 AM
I agree with what you are saying but just think it is not working out for Burley - every decision he makes is going wrong. Iwelumo and Boyd , McGregor v Holland, sanctioning drinking and aftermath, Marshall in goal last night though not directly to blame, McCulloch, fixture schedule etc. Unlike Smith and McLeish think he must have lost dressing room and will have to go - and like it or not he has to have a working relationship with media which he doesn't seem to.

Easy to say all that with the benefit of hindsight. If Iwelumo had put away his chance, which he would have done 99 times out of a hundred, Burley would have been hailed as a genius for choosing him over Boyd. Can't knock Burley for that one, also it helped reveal Boyd to be the selfish pr*ck that he is, so he got it spot on imo

hibs1875aye
14-08-2009, 12:00 PM
Burley had the chance to put out the right team, in the right formation, to win the game and he didn't. He had the chance with all the other matches he choose the team for, he didn't do too well there either. We have 7 points from our entire campaign and in real world terms, the only team we SHOULD have problems beating, is Holland. We've got Premiership players, SPL Players, championship players etc. What we dont have and havent had since the two huns departed is a manager with tactical prowess and the ability to pick the right team.

This crap about him being unlucky, Scotland are lucky to still have ANY chance, albeit slim/none...if some of the results hadnt gone in our favour, we'd already be out and this conversation wouldnt even be happening. Burley needs to GTF. This isnt to do with the youth of today, Scottish culture, Scottish football, the recession, swine flu or anything else - it's all to do with Burleys inability to run the national team.:grr:

Hibster
14-08-2009, 12:05 PM
The main difference between how we've done under Burley, and how we did before under Smith and McLeish is, imo, basically down to one thing - luck.

Take the two games against France. Both could have easily ended in 4-0 defeats or worse. France fluffed all their chances, we scored with just about our only attempts on goal. We got lucky. Yet these games are used again and again as examples of tactical genius and how Scotland improved so much under Smith and McLeish's guidance etc etc - were they ****! France were all over us and only due to woeful finishing did they fail to score

Burley just hasn't had the same luck. I see very, very little difference in the quality of the team under Burley - if anything we're playing better football, just not getting the same breaks. Yet he'll be used as a scapegoat and blamed for everything wrong with Scottish football. The bottom line is - we don't have world class players and we never will do. Doesn't matter who is in charge, we're always going to a not bad/decent enough team, scrapping for 2nd place in qualifications, relying on a bit of luck along the way. Wednesday night was painful but I still think Burley hasn't done much wrong

hibs1875aye
14-08-2009, 12:20 PM
Burley just hasn't had the same luck. I see very, very little difference in the quality of the team under Burley - if anything we're playing better football, just not getting the same breaks. Yet he'll be used as a scapegoat and blamed for everything wrong with Scottish football. The bottom line is - we don't have world class players and we never will do. Doesn't matter who is in charge, we're always going to a not bad/decent enough team, scrapping for 2nd place in qualifications, relying on a bit of luck along the way.

Luck????

Here's our results:

06/09/08 15:00 Skopje FYR Macedonia 1:0 (1:0) Scotland
- we made an arse of this, bottled it and lost...

10/09/08 18:30 Reykjavik Iceland 1:2 (0:1) Scotland
- we scraped 2-1 over the worst team in the group

11/10/08 15:00 Glasgow Scotland 0:0 Norway
- home game, crap formation, couldnt beat Norway

28/03/09 20:45 Amsterdam Netherlands 3:0 (2:0) Scotland
- we were concisely beaten

01/04/09 20:00 Glasgow Scotland 2:1 (1:0) Iceland
- the only result that kept Burley in a job

12/08/09 19:00 Oslo Norway 4:0 (2:0) Scotland
- gubbed by Norway


And we've got to look forward to playing these 2 teams who've already beaten us and Holland probably will again:

05/09/09 15:00 Glasgow Scotland - FYR Macedonia
09/09/09 20:00 Glasgow Scotland - Netherlands


Here's the OTHER teams:

06/09/08 19:00 Oslo Norway 2:2 (1:1) Iceland
- nice wee draw, helped us when we lost our first game even though Norway were expected to win...

10/09/08 20:30 Skopje FYR Macedonia 1:2 (0:0) Netherlands
- Holland done us no harm here

11/10/08 20:45 Rotterdam Netherlands 2:0 (1:0) Iceland
- or here

15/10/08 18:00 Reykjavik Iceland 1:0 (1:0) FYR Macedonia
- Iceland, the crappest team apparently, done us a big favour here

15/10/08 19:00 Oslo Norway 0:1 (0:0) Netherlands
- so did Holland

01/04/09 20:45 Amsterdam Netherlands 4:0 (3:0) FYR Macedonia
- and here

06/06/09 17:45 Skopje FYR Macedonia 0:0 Norway
- and these teams done us no harm drawing here

06/06/09 18:45 Reykjavik Iceland 1:2 (0:2) Netherlands
- again, favour for us

10/06/09 20:45 Rotterdam Netherlands 2:0 (1:0) Norway
- again, Holland helped us out





Without everyone doing us favours, we'd have been out a long time ago. Burley has had more luck than you might realise. Yes, we've had some unlucky decisons. We've also had the wrong players, played in the wrong positions or even some players played/not played at all. Add to that his nonsense with the bevvy session, his losing the dressing room and the lack of respect he seems to have from the players and we're going absolutely nowhere.

There is only so much luck we can get mate. We've had it and it run out with Norway. We're going out and it is due in no small part to our pal George.

Hibster
14-08-2009, 12:26 PM
Also when people talk about how Burley has taken us back 10 years or so, seems like some of the dire performances under Smith/McLeish have been completely forgotten. Away to Ukraine? Away to Faroe Islands when we spent the entire second half camped in our own half of the pitch, relying on the woodwork to save us? Or away to Georgia when we put in one of the worst performances in living memory

Two flukes against France, some awful performances away from home and two good performances at home to Ukraine and Italy is how I'd sum up our time under Smith/McLeish.

If we beat the Netherlands at home in September, or at least give them a good game, all in all he won't have done much worse than those before him

Hibster
14-08-2009, 12:50 PM
Luck????

Here's our results:

06/09/08 15:00 Skopje FYR Macedonia 1:0 (1:0) Scotland
- we made an arse of this, bottled it and lost...


Yep, we did, started the game far too slowly - belting heat and time of year didn't help either tho



10/09/08 18:30 Reykjavik Iceland 1:2 (0:1) Scotland
- we scraped 2-1 over the worst team in the group

Any away win, for any team, is a good result these days. France scraped a 1-0 win over the Faroe Islands on Wednesday...



11/10/08 15:00 Glasgow Scotland 0:0 Norway
- home game, crap formation, couldnt beat Norway

Came within a couple of inches of doing so though...plus as Norway showed on Wednesday they're no mugs. Had Iwelum scored people would have calling Burley a genius


28/03/09 20:45 Amsterdam Netherlands 3:0 (2:0) Scotland
- we were concisely beaten

No shame in that, plus had a perfectly good goal disallowed when we were 2-0 down. Far better performance than when we played them in 2003 anyway


01/04/09 20:00 Glasgow Scotland 2:1 (1:0) Iceland
- the only result that kept Burley in a job

Good performance, good result against a team that had drawn in Oslo


12/08/09 19:00 Oslo Norway 4:0 (2:0) Scotland
- gubbed by Norway

Sendind off changed the game. Had Miller scored and Caldwell stayed on the pitch, who knows. Would have been a completely different game anyway


And we've got to look forward to playing these 2 teams who've already beaten us and Holland probably will again:

05/09/09 15:00 Glasgow Scotland - FYR Macedonia
09/09/09 20:00 Glasgow Scotland - Netherlands

I think we'll win both games. Don't think we'll make it to the play-offs though



Here's the OTHER teams:

06/09/08 19:00 Oslo Norway 2:2 (1:1) Iceland
- nice wee draw, helped us when we lost our first game even though Norway were expected to win...

10/09/08 20:30 Skopje FYR Macedonia 1:2 (0:0) Netherlands
- Holland done us no harm here

11/10/08 20:45 Rotterdam Netherlands 2:0 (1:0) Iceland
- or here

15/10/08 18:00 Reykjavik Iceland 1:0 (1:0) FYR Macedonia
- Iceland, the crappest team apparently, done us a big favour here

15/10/08 19:00 Oslo Norway 0:1 (0:0) Netherlands
- so did Holland

01/04/09 20:45 Amsterdam Netherlands 4:0 (3:0) FYR Macedonia
- and here

06/06/09 17:45 Skopje FYR Macedonia 0:0 Norway
- and these teams done us no harm drawing here

06/06/09 18:45 Reykjavik Iceland 1:2 (0:2) Netherlands
- again, favour for us

10/06/09 20:45 Rotterdam Netherlands 2:0 (1:0) Norway
- again, Holland helped us out


Thats all just part and parcel of qualifying. Some results helped us, others didn't, other teams got lucky with other results etc - having the Netherlands dominate the group has helped everyone going for 2nd place, not just us. The fact that Iceland managed a draw in Oslo just shows how quickly things can change - everyone in Norway was probably lamenting the end of Norwegian football after that result, several months on and they're thrashing us 4-0 and feeling on top of the world. Sometimes things go for you, sometimes they don't. Just hasn't happened this qualifying session - I don't agree that its all down to Burley though

iwasthere1972
14-08-2009, 01:06 PM
Get tae ****.

:agree: Not one decent performance since any of them became involved with the Scotland set up. The expectations from us fans are probably on a par with when that German bloke made us a laughing stock.

Complete clearout including Smith etc.

hibs1875aye
14-08-2009, 01:30 PM
As a comparison to the previous campaigns where we have had MUCH tougher opposition, broadly the SAME bunch of players available (whether used or not, they were mostly available to all 3 managers) and where we had previous world cup winners and finalists in our groups:


BURLEY
Played 10 (1 Year almost)
Won: 2 (Iceland 2-1 twice) (20%)
Lost: 5 (including Macedonia and Norway) (50%)
Draw: 3 (2 friendlies, 1 of which was a 0-0 Northern Ireland at Hampden!!!) (30%)


MCLEISH
Played: 10 (1 Year)
Won: 7 (including beating France in Paris and Ukraine) (70%)
Lost: 3 (Twice to Italy, last time being due to a dogy decision in the final 3 minutes of the game!!!) (30%)
Draw: None (0%)


SMITH
Played: 16 (Just under 2 years)
Won: 7 (including Frace, 2-1 Norway in Norway!) (43%)
Lost: 4 (once to Ukraine away, once to Italy away) (25%)
Draw: 5 (including 1-1 Italy and 2 friendlies) (32%)


As I said before, I despise both the huns for the way they treated Scotland but results and records are there for all to see.

McLeish arguably done better than Smith though Smith steadied the Titanic when Berti tried to sink us big time!

We come far closer to qualifying with the last 2 fools.

And MOST important for me, under these 2 previous managers we LOOKED like we wanted to win and we LOOKED like we could. In all 10 games Burley has managed, I cannot say I have seen that same appetite or had any belief we could, neither have the players.

The only team we've beaten is Iceland and frankly, they are *****.

I would love us to qualify but either way, Burley can bolt and lets try someone else.

Danderhall Hibs
14-08-2009, 02:23 PM
Burley GTF :bye::bye::bye:

Take the scuffy barsteward and the other erse with you :agree:

Absolute embarrassment....squad picking a disgrace...there must surely be a better Scottish left back than Callum Davidson :grr::grr:


You got a name to put forward?




I mean, players on 5, 8, 10 grand a week shouldn't be expected to beat a bunch of players from Norway?

Some of the Norwegians earn more than that don't they? Riisse, Pedersen. So maybe they did deserve to win then?


I think Scott Brown should be credited with an assist for the 1st Norway goal?


Not just an assist - he scored it!