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lucky
10-08-2009, 07:57 PM
After being at Blackburn and Bolton, where supporters could purchase drink from the moment they went in to near enough the final whistle. Does anyone think that Scottish fans will ever be allowed the same facilities and secondly would this increase trouble?

Personally I cant see it happening and do believe it would increase the likelihood of the Ned's misbehaving.

ancient hibee
10-08-2009, 07:59 PM
The chances of it happening(other than in hospitality where toffs like me go)are less than zero:greengrin

jgl07
10-08-2009, 08:03 PM
After being at Blackburn and Bolton, where supporters could purchase drink from the moment they went in to near enough the final whistle. Does anyone think that Scottish fans will ever be allowed the same facilities and secondly would this increase trouble?

Personally I cant see it happening and do believe it would increase the likelihood of the Ned's misbehaving.
The problem isn't what people drink in the ground it's what they drink before they get in.

The drinks ban encourages people to stay as long as possible in the pub. It will make it more likely to have Hillesborough type crushes outside the ground for big matches.

Sir David Gray
10-08-2009, 08:06 PM
Up until my trip to Blackburn and Bolton, I thought that football fans in Scotland should be treated in the same way as their rugby counterparts.

I now realise that you cannot treat football fans the same way as rugby fans and I think selling alcohol at Scottish football stadia would be a disaster.

It'll never be allowed anyway.

GlesgaeHibby
10-08-2009, 08:07 PM
No chance it would work. It was like kids being given the key to the candy shop on saturday.

Can folk not go 90mins without a pint?

LancashireHibby
10-08-2009, 08:07 PM
No doubt in my mind that Saturday's post-match antics were fuelled by the novelty of being able to drink throughout the game. It's a no from me.

Darth Hibbie
10-08-2009, 08:08 PM
It will never happen now. Any party trying to do it would be slaughtered by others for letting it happen.

The other question is would you want it to. Can you imagine the price of the drink when you consider the price of a Bovril :grr:

Removed
10-08-2009, 08:11 PM
No chance it would work. It was like kids being given the key to the candy shop on saturday.

Can folk not go 90mins without a pint?


No doubt in my mind that Saturday's post-match antics were fuelled by the novelty of being able to drink throughout the game. It's a no from me.

:agree:

I just don't understand the folk that travelled all that way then missed a lot of the game live just to get another pint, it's not as if most folk were short on drinking time.

Hope it's never introduced here

The_Todd
10-08-2009, 08:12 PM
Until the attitude to drink changes in this country to be more like our cousins on mainland Europe, I don't think we should be allowed drink in football matches.

It's not just football related - you go to Cyprus, Greece etc and watch the behaviour of "Brits on tour" then watch the locals - the difference is day and night. When I was in Cyprus recently I was embarrased by the behaviour of some British tourists and I was cringing for them.

It needs to start with the next generation, though - kids need to be brought up being taught how to handle it responsibly. Until then, nae danger.

Barney McGrew
10-08-2009, 08:14 PM
I'm surprised that no-one has mentioned that although it was allegedly alcohol on Saturday at the Reebok, it is without doubt one of the worst pints I've ever tasted.

:jamboak:

lucky
10-08-2009, 08:17 PM
:agree:

I just don't understand the folk that travelled all that way then missed a lot of the game live just to get another pint, it's not as if most folk were short on drinking time.

Hope it's never introduced here

Got to agree 3 of my mates spent over an hour on the concourse drinking and watching the game on TV. I cant see the point in going if your not going to watch the game.

lyonhibs
10-08-2009, 08:18 PM
No no no no no

A terrible idea - I had a pint in the concourse at half time, and not only was the place full of - undoubtedly good Hibbies - people crossing the boundary from happily drunk to properly bevvied. The beer was expensive, watered down pish.

As an idea, introducing booze to Scottish football grounds has absolutely no redeeming features.

GGTTH

fiolex1
10-08-2009, 08:29 PM
Won't happen the mankie mob in the west would spoil it, the police would never allow drinking at the grounds in Glasgow, however I couldn't see the problem if the old firm and Edin Derbies were barred form selling drink but allowed to do so against the liked of Motherwell etc.

brownlies bits
10-08-2009, 08:31 PM
Would you want it to happen? ever sat near a sober idiot only intent on hurling abuse at any one and everyone?
Now add alcohol.
Got to agree, got one next to me in the east, he's bad enough with pie and bovril. Mind you if they sold that piss water they had at Bolton you would probably throw up before you got pissed.:jamboak:

CABBAGE & RIBS
10-08-2009, 09:29 PM
No doubt in my mind that Saturday's post-match antics were fuelled by the novelty of being able to drink throughout the game. It's a no from me.


The fighting was pre planned, nothing to do with drink.

LancashireHibby
10-08-2009, 09:35 PM
The fighting was pre planned, nothing to do with drink.

In Kearsley, maybe, but I can't imagine the situation being helped by a load of pished up neds, can you?

lyonhibs
10-08-2009, 09:38 PM
The fighting was pre planned, nothing to do with drink.

Really??? So the 20 odd (possibly more) cowards masquerading as supporters of our club that went around randomly hitting folk and apparently putting a man through a shop window at the retail park behind the stadium had pre-planned it, and as such were sober as a judge when they did it???
:rolleyes:

Velma Dinkley
10-08-2009, 09:47 PM
alcohol doesn't turn everybody into a thug. most people can have a good few beers and be perfectly nice and a good laugh. the people who are rude, abusive and aggressive when drunk are the ones who are rude, abusive and aggressive when sober. alcohol is something they just use to try to excuse their behaviour.

CABBAGE & RIBS
10-08-2009, 09:47 PM
Apparently the beer in the stadium is weak as dish water and about £5 a pint. nobody is going to get wrecked at a football match, people will get drunk before.

iwasthere1972
10-08-2009, 09:49 PM
Don't want to sound like a killjoy but please no.

Some folks don't know when they've had enough and having a further supply in the stadium would IMHO lead to trouble and could be the difference between banter and a square go. By all means have a few pints pre match and sober up in time to start again after the match.

Besides how many times do you hear the words "Excuse me" as someone wants to pass to get their pie or pee. :grr: It would only get worse if beer was added to the list.

Rant over. :agree:

CABBAGE & RIBS
10-08-2009, 09:51 PM
I can't see it. you would maybe have 2 pints max at the game. They have it in England and there isn't a problem.

LancashireHibby
10-08-2009, 09:51 PM
Apparently the beer in the stadium is weak as dish water and about £5 a pint. nobody is going to get wrecked at a football match, people will get drunk before.

Stadium prices are comparable to the pubs these days (£2.75 a pint).

Whether it's weaker than what you get in the pubs is debatable, but when you've been drinking it non-stop for 90 minutes, it's bound to have an effect.

I'm certainly no killjoy - I had a pint at half-time and plenty more besides during the course of the day, but I also managed to do so without going on a retail park wrecking spree. The minority has spoiled it for the majority yet again, but if a booze ban means that the minority will crawl back under their rocks then I support it 100%.

CABBAGE & RIBS
10-08-2009, 09:53 PM
The retail park would have got smashed up regardless of drink at the game.

LancashireHibby
10-08-2009, 09:55 PM
The retail park would have got smashed up regardless of drink at the game.

:top marks:faf::faf::faf::faf:

CABBAGE & RIBS
10-08-2009, 09:59 PM
You trying to say a couple of pints at the game made some yobs smash up a retail park.

ArabHibee
10-08-2009, 09:59 PM
The retail park would have got smashed up regardless of drink at the game.

You seem very knowledgable about the "antics" on Saturday. Are you one of our delightful "casual" element?

LancashireHibby
10-08-2009, 10:00 PM
You trying to say a couple of pints at the game made some yobs smash up a retail park.

"A couple of pints"? You're on form son, go for the hat trick.

CABBAGE & RIBS
10-08-2009, 10:01 PM
You seem very knowledgable about the "antics" on Saturday. Are you one of our delightful "casual" element?


No i was in my house posting on here.

ArabHibee
10-08-2009, 10:02 PM
No i was in my house posting on here.

So how do you know that the retail park would have got smashed up "regardless"?

CABBAGE & RIBS
10-08-2009, 10:02 PM
"A couple of pints"? You're on form son, go for the hat trick.


At the game.

LancashireHibby
10-08-2009, 10:03 PM
No i was in my house posting on here.

Then you're in absolutely no position to comment on the undoubtedly huge effect that alcohol had on the trouble immediately after the game on Saturday. :bye:

CABBAGE & RIBS
10-08-2009, 10:04 PM
So how do you know that the retail park would have got smashed up "regardless"?


Well do honestly believe the guys who did it only did it because they had a couple of pints at the game (during the game)

Landells
10-08-2009, 10:05 PM
What about Alcohol free drink? 0.0% :agree:

CABBAGE & RIBS
10-08-2009, 10:05 PM
Then you're in absolutely no position to comment on the undoubtedly huge effect that alcohol had on the trouble immediately after the game on Saturday. :bye:

I've been to plenty hibs games where there is no trouble and people have been peeving all day.

LancashireHibby
10-08-2009, 10:06 PM
Well do honestly believe the guys who did it only did it because they had a couple of pints at the game (during the game)
Do you honestly believe that said 'guys' only had a "couple" of pints during the game?

Removed
10-08-2009, 10:07 PM
What about Alcohol free drink? 0.0% :agree:

:faf::faf::faf::faf::faf::faf:

He's back from his hols

ArabHibee
10-08-2009, 10:07 PM
Well do honestly believe the guys who did it only did it because they had a couple of pints at the game (during the game)

:wtf:

Apart from the fact that you can't actually string a sentence together, there is only one more thing I am going to lower myself to say to you:

LTYF!!
:kbacker:

ArabHibee
10-08-2009, 10:09 PM
What about Alcohol free drink? 0.0% :agree:

Are you just back? :thumbsup:
Were you drinking on the plane home from your holibobs? :wink:

bingo70
10-08-2009, 10:10 PM
Then you're in absolutely no position to comment on the undoubtedly huge effect that alcohol had on the trouble immediately after the game on Saturday. :bye:

TBF i don't think he's suggesting that, from what i can make out he's saying that it won't have been caused by the relatively few pints during the game, more to do with the fact these guys were looking for trouble and were probably pished before the game so the fact pints were available in the ground is irelevant.

FWIW i'd rater there wasn't bevvy available in the grounds (and i love a bevvy), it's annoying enough folk turning up late and wanting to squeeze past every couple of minutes without this, also going to the football is normally a big enough day on the bevvy as it is so a couple of hours to sober up a little before going out again at night does me no harm.

Landells
10-08-2009, 10:12 PM
:faf::faf::faf::faf::faf::faf:

He's back from his hols


Are you just back? :thumbsup:
Were you drinking on the plane home from your holibobs? :wink:

HOLA!!

got back saturday, went into work tonight to find I went back a day early! :faf:

LancashireHibby
10-08-2009, 10:13 PM
also going to the football is normally a big enough day on the bevvy as it is so a couple of hours to sober up a little before going out again at night does me no harm.

I think the fact that they didn't have 2 hours to sober up during the game and instead keep 'topped up' certainly had a huge bearing on things. That better?

CABBAGE & RIBS
10-08-2009, 10:13 PM
Do you honestly believe that said 'guys' only had a "couple" of pints during the game?


Obviously not but the couple of pints wouldn't have made that much difference.

LancashireHibby
10-08-2009, 10:17 PM
Obviously not but the couple of pints wouldn't have made that much difference.

Know your limits. Could easily have tipped them over the edge, though I think it's more the effect of it allowing a constant topping up of booze already consumed as opposed to having a couple of hours to sober up a bit.

ArabHibee
10-08-2009, 10:19 PM
HOLA!!

got back saturday, went into work tonight to find I went back a day early! :faf:

:thumbsup::thumbsup: You make me laugh, you seriously do. That is just class!!

bingo70
10-08-2009, 10:19 PM
I think the fact that they didn't have 2 hours to sober up during the game and instead keep 'topped up' certainly had a huge bearing on things. That better?

You don't need my approval :wink:

I think these guys were probably looking for bother, i think they'd have found it whether they had a drink during the game or not so i don't see their behaviour should be used in an argument either for or against drink being served in football grounds.

LancashireHibby
10-08-2009, 10:21 PM
You don't need my approval :wink:

I think these guys were probably looking for bother, i think they'd have found it whether they had a drink during the game or not so i don't see their behaviour should be used in an argument either for or against drink being served in football grounds.

Knowing the set up of the Reebok, they'd have had maybe a 20 minute walk to the nearest pub that would let them in after the game - factor in a short while pre-match and it becomes nearly 3 hours of sobering up. By that stage, they'd have been falling asleep on each other's shoulders and lost the 'courage' to commit the acts that occured.

HibsMax
10-08-2009, 10:22 PM
It's a sad state of affairs when adults cannot act maturely enough to be trusted to drink during the game. I love going to sporting events over here because I can get my drink on. ;) It's a little different since the games all last about 3 hours. I don't like the argument of "can people not go a couple of hours without a pint". Um, can people not live their entire lives without a pint? Of course they can but why should they? That argument simply distracts us from the real issue.........idiots who can't control themselves when they've had a few bevvies.

ArabHibee
10-08-2009, 10:24 PM
It's a sad state of affairs when adults cannot act maturely enough to be trusted to drink during the game. I love going to sporting events over here because I can get my drink on. ;) It's a little different since the games all last about 3 hours. I don't like the argument of "can people not go a couple of hours without a pint". Um, can people not live their entire lives without a pint? Of course they can but why should they? That argument simply distracts us from the real issue.........idiots who can't control themselves when they've had a few bevvies.

Yeah, but you have to drink at American Football games - it numbs the pain of it being so boring! :yawn:

CABBAGE & RIBS
10-08-2009, 10:25 PM
Knowing the set up of the Reebok, they'd have had maybe a 20 minute walk to the nearest pub that would let them in after the game - factor in a short while pre-match and it becomes nearly 3 hours of sobering up. By that stage, they'd have been falling asleep on each other's shoulders and lost the 'courage' to commit the acts that occured.


These people were going to bolton to cause trouble. Can't you grasp that. it wasn't the drink it was the people.

blackpoolhibs
10-08-2009, 10:28 PM
These people were going to bolton to cause trouble. Can't you grasp that. it wasn't the drink it was the people.

:top marks I was pissed, so were most of the people i went with. We did not cause any trouble.

iwasthere1972
10-08-2009, 10:34 PM
:top marks I was pissed, so were most of the people i went with. We did not cause any trouble.

That's because you lot are a load of old farts anyway and you wouldn't have had the strength between you to swing a handbag let alone a punch. :duck:

blackpoolhibs
10-08-2009, 10:36 PM
That's because you lot are a load of old farts anyway and you wouldn't have had the strength between you to swing a handbag let alone a punch. :duck:

:greengrin very true, but i have been known to do some deadly farts.:wink:

Gus Fring
11-08-2009, 01:09 AM
I shall wade in here and Quote Mrs Lovejoy from the Simpsons

"Won't somebody please think of the children"

Do you really want your son/daughter at a game with potentially drunken idiots ruining the experience or even worse antics.

I know I don't

Keith_M
11-08-2009, 06:57 AM
Big games before the alcohol ban came into force were an absolute nightmare. There was actually a marked improvement in behaviour of fans in general afterward, aside from the hard core hooligan element.

I haven't seen anything in the last 20 odd years to make me think that people would behave any better when bevvied up at games now than they did in the 70's.

Now, I'm not saying that all fans who drink are trouble makers. The problem is that there enough people whose behaviour deteriorates, and probably their bravery increases, after a few drinks. They're the ones that are going to prevent the selling of alcohol at games.




...is anybody still awake? :wink:

MoantheCabbage
11-08-2009, 07:36 AM
Im surprised some people on here actually ever leave their house what with all the people who drink, swear, get up to go to the toilet at football matches, leave early etc etc etc. Whats the world coming to.

For my ten pence worth on allowing alcohol to be sold during matches.

The majority of people who have a drink before / after a match enjoy doing so and there is never any trouble. Lets not forget which side of the border was booted out of Europe for holliganism and are generally a menace wherever they go, Scottish fans all over the world have been given proper recognition of how well behaved they are drunk or not at football matches.

Hey but dont let the facts get in the way of a good moan, which tend to always be the case on here.

Dashing Bob S
11-08-2009, 07:49 AM
Most of the violence which was caused by seasoned 80's thugs/ex-thugs having a renunion would probably have happened anyway. While some were just there to enjoy each others company and wanted to keep their heads down, there were definitely a few who wanted to cause trouble at any cost, knowing fully that their old comrades would be sucked into the fray. Alcohol didn't help, but it wasn't the main contributing factor.

However, I think it did contribute to the general atmosphere amongst mainstream fans, who, perhaps because of the Scotland-England element seemed more up for confrontation than usual. We all know that drink impairs out judgement and being drunk makes us more likely to do things we regret. I'd rather not see it reintroduced.

Andy74
11-08-2009, 08:08 AM
It's not the alcohol that's the problem, it's the people.

Even so, what evidence is there that allowing some drink in the stdium will lead to any trouble?

How many instances of violence has there been in English stadia where drink is allowed?

How about in Europe? I managed to have 4 or 5 pints in Amsterdam watching two games in a row and never felt compelled to go any sort of rampage. I didn't see anyone else doing so either.

dangermouse
11-08-2009, 08:13 AM
Im surprised some people on here actually ever leave their house what with all the people who drink, swear, get up to go to the toilet at football matches, leave early etc etc etc. Whats the world coming to.

For my ten pence worth on allowing alcohol to be sold during matches.

The majority of people who have a drink before / after a match enjoy doing so and there is never any trouble. Lets not forget which side of the border was booted out of Europe for holliganism and are generally a menace wherever they go, Scottish fans all over the world have been given proper recognition of how well behaved they are drunk or not at football matches.

Hey but dont let the facts get in the way of a good moan, which tend to always be the case on here.

But it's the minority who spoil it for everyone else. Allowing drink is Scottish football grounds would be a disaster as Saturday at the Reebok has proven.

dangermouse
11-08-2009, 08:19 AM
Most of the violence which was caused by seasoned 80's thugs/ex-thugs having a renunion would probably have happened anyway. While some were just there to enjoy each others company and wanted to keep their heads down, there were definitely a few who wanted to cause trouble at any cost, knowing fully that their old comrades would be sucked into the fray. Alcohol didn't help, but it wasn't the main contributing factor.

However, I think it did contribute to the general atmosphere amongst mainstream fans, who, perhaps because of the Scotland-England element seemed more up for confrontation than usual. We all know that drink impairs out judgement and being drunk makes us more likely to do things we regret. I'd rather not see it reintroduced.

Exactly. How many of us that were there can honestly say they did something they later regretted be it full scale physical assault or even joining in with the anti English singing. There were a large number of children (from both sides) who must have wondered what was going on and may even have been caught up in it with the atmosphere in the stadium.

An earlier poster reckoned we'd have to educate the next generation to be more responsible with alcohol. Saturday was a good example of how it can make a friendly turn nasty. Imagine the carnage at a derby game should alcohol be freely available throughout the ground.

MoantheCabbage
11-08-2009, 08:27 AM
But it's the minority who spoil it for everyone else. Allowing drink is Scottish football grounds would be a disaster as Saturday at the Reebok has proven.

Why was it a disaster?

Even the Bolton fans thought it all went really well as per other posts on here.

As its been stated before, drink fuelled or not some people were intent on causing bother. The fact remains, Hibs took 2500 to the game on Sat and about 20 of that caused some trouble. Thats less than 1%

brog
11-08-2009, 08:29 AM
As Hibs supporters & Scots our capacity for self-denigration never fails to amaze me.

Of course we could have drink sold in Scottish football grounds without any downturn in behaviour, as one poster pointed out most drinking is done before the game in pubs. Having bars in ground would prevent the rush to the turnstiles (& toilets)at about 2.45 each week.
Another poster pointed out " the novelty " effect of drinking at Bolton, exactly, it was a novelty & again to quote another poster some fans behaved like kids in a candy shop. The novelty would soon wear off, like it did when we allowed pubs to open in the afternoon & later at night. Anyone want to go back to the days of 2.30 & 10 pm closing? ( Oh & Sundays as well ). Amazingly, being able to have a pint at 3.30 pm did not result in drink-crazed hordes running amok in city centres. After an initial, brief increase, alcohol related offences quickly reduced.
Contrary to what many posters seem to believe, alcohol was not ( with a few exceptions - Clydebank I think ) sold in Scottish grounds. The problem was you could take in as much as you wanted. ( I remember a happy day in 1973 :greengrin ). Those days ( bottles into grounds ) are gone & happily will never return.
I can ( unfortunately! ) also remember when we weren't allowed to play footy on a Sunday & swings were tied up. Hooligan behaviour of course!
Unfortunately, as shown in this forum, there's often a knee-jerk reaction to events which can ultimately result in ill considered actions being taken. The Defence of the Realm Act was passed in 1915 to shut pubs in the afternoon because workers in munitions factories were not returning on a Friday afternoon & not enough people were dying on the Somme as a result. It took nearly 70 years to repeal that legislation.
Lets have some faith & trust Hibs fans to behave as responsibly as West Ham fans or Scottish rugby supporters.

Joe Baker II
11-08-2009, 08:33 AM
Is it racist that English football supporters are generally allowed to consume alcohol at games but Scottish football supporters are not (particularly when at rugby union, a sport that lasts a similar time but synonymous with anglicisation) - a decent lawyer would have a field day one would think?

Thoughts?

Brog - good response to the idiotic reactionary kneejerk postings (give Dangermouse, Bingo70 and Bajillons particular mentions) above that seem to make up a lot of this thread

scott7_0(Prague)
11-08-2009, 08:37 AM
I can see a lot of negatives for it in Scotland, for one why limit it to just the concourse, here in CZ we are allowed to drink in our seats, enjoy the football with a pint, this of course works well here as no one is in the pub sinking pints until 2mins to KO instead they get along to the game with plenty of time, have a pint in the concourse and move up to there seat with a drink to enjoy the game.

The more limits or time restraints on people the more people will try to guzzle as much down as possible, a classic example of this is up the town during happy hours... it goes mental 10mins before the end of the offer.

Barman Stanton
11-08-2009, 09:04 AM
:wtf:

Apart from the fact that you can't actually string a sentence together, there is only one more thing I am going to lower myself to say to you:

LTYF!!
:kbacker:

Dont see why the guy is a Jambo. He is simply saying that there would have been trouble anyway, regardless if they can have had a cpl of pints at the game. These guys are idiots who were out to cause trouble, and they would have regardless whether they had a pint or a bovril.

Its extremely naive to blame a half time pint on this trouble! 99% of the Hibees who had a pint at the game wouldnt dream of causing trouble after.

NGP
11-08-2009, 09:41 AM
The main problem for me is the actual stadiums themselves. Imagine trying to get a pint as well as a pie etc in some of the grounds in the SPL - Tannadeechy, Falkirk & Fir Park would be a nightmare. The best solution for me would be bars like Behind the Goals at ER - if / when we build the new east stand, another bar like the one in the FF would be a good idea - allow to have a beer in the ground, but still have to go through the turnstyles to get into the ground proper.

Dashing Bob S
11-08-2009, 10:34 AM
The problem is the terrible relationship we have with alcohol in this country. We still drink to excess and see a Saturday out as a competition to sink as much as possible in the allocated time, preferably with a swaggering, beligerent sense of entitlement. We also feel the subsequent need to scream the same half-dozen songs out at the top of our lungs in bars, disturbing the peace and yet still harbouring he conceit that everybody really loves us.

As Scott has said about the Czech Republic, people generally don't abuse drink at football like we do on a day out.

God, I can't wait for the next away game.

Septimus
11-08-2009, 11:24 AM
Last thing in the world I would want is urine filled cans being lobbed at me in the ground as they were in "the good old days". Booze has a tendency to change the atmosphere in a ground. As proof watch a pleasant day of England being beaten at cricket and listen to the crowd.

Viva_Palmeiras
11-08-2009, 11:31 AM
It's not the alcohol that's the problem, it's the people.

Even so, what evidence is there that allowing some drink in the stdium will lead to any trouble?

How many instances of violence has there been in English stadia where drink is allowed?

How about in Europe? I managed to have 4 or 5 pints in Amsterdam watching two games in a row and never felt compelled to go any sort of rampage. I didn't see anyone else doing so either.

Do the Dutch need a bevvy to go on the rampage or does it just assist the process :devil:

scott7_0(Prague)
11-08-2009, 11:32 AM
Booze has a tendency to change the atmosphere in a ground.

Not if it is done correctly it won't

Andy74
11-08-2009, 11:46 AM
Not if it is done correctly it won't

I've got to say I really enjoyed having a beer in my seat here and as you say above I got in a bit earlier and so did most others. Europe though does have a slightly different realtionship with booze and drugs.

Amsterdam is a good indicator, you can do what you like here in the correct placea and the only people at all iIve seen making idiots of themselves have been Brits. Though i rather suspect Brits would do that with or without beer and drugs.

--------
11-08-2009, 12:17 PM
Most of the violence which was caused by seasoned 80's thugs/ex-thugs having a renunion would probably have happened anyway. While some were just there to enjoy each others company and wanted to keep their heads down, there were definitely a few who wanted to cause trouble at any cost, knowing fully that their old comrades would be sucked into the fray. Alcohol didn't help, but it wasn't the main contributing factor.

However, I think it did contribute to the general atmosphere amongst mainstream fans, who, perhaps because of the Scotland-England element seemed more up for confrontation than usual. We all know that drink impairs our judgement and being drunk makes us more likely to do things we regret. I'd rather not see it reintroduced.

That seems to me to be a balanced judgement, Bob. It's not that it causes trouble - alcohol can stoke up more trouble when trouble's in the air. We've all done things drunk we'd never have done sober, and unfortunately I think Scotland as a nation and society does have a 'troubled' relationship with alcohol.

And football crowds possess a 'them-and-us' tribalism that isn't present at Murrayfield when Scotland are attempting to play Ruggah.


The main problem for me is the actual stadiums themselves. Imagine trying to get a pint as well as a pie etc in some of the grounds in the SPL - Tannadeechy, Falkirk & Fir Park would be a nightmare. The best solution for me would be bars like Behind the Goals at ER - if / when we build the new east stand, another bar like the one in the FF would be a good idea - allow to have a beer in the ground, but still have to go through the turnstyles to get into the ground proper.

Yup. :agree:

Once we have our new East Stand, ER will be a proper 21st-century football stadium. But it will be one of only 4 or 5 in the SPL. And think of some of the potential promotion hopes in Div One.

I have no problem with a facility like BTG - encourage the fans to arrive early, provide proper catering and entertainment pre- and post-match. I agree that something similar should be incorporated into the new East Stand - great idea. We could have different areas off the concourse - licenced and non-licenced, fast-food, maybe a more up-market restaurant, whatever would please the clientele and attract people to matches.

I'm NOT too happy about folks bringing their drinks out into the stadium proper, though. I've sat beside or in front of too many idiots in the past to be confident I wouldn't end up drenched in some clown's pint because he or she can't control his or her joy at Deek scoring a hat-trick.


Last thing in the world I would want is urine filled cans being lobbed at me in the ground as they were in "the good old days". Booze has a tendency to change the atmosphere in a ground. As proof watch a pleasant day of England being beaten at cricket and listen to the crowd.

:agree: There's a happy medium between sitting in silence, occasionally applauding or muttering 'Well played, sir' and a bunch of drunken yobs singing, puking, and harassing other spectators.

But if the ECB's main sponsor brews beer for its profit, what can we expect?

The_Todd
11-08-2009, 12:47 PM
The problem is the terrible relationship we have with alcohol in this country. We still drink to excess and see a Saturday out as a competition to sink as much as possible in the allocated time, preferably with a swaggering, beligerent sense of entitlement. We also feel the subsequent need to scream the same half-dozen songs out at the top of our lungs in bars, disturbing the peace and yet still harbouring he conceit that everybody really loves us.

As Scott has said about the Czech Republic, people generally don't abuse drink at football like we do on a day out.

God, I can't wait for the next away game.

Exactly my point. It's not a football specific problem, it's the whole attitude towards drink in the Uk as a whole.

Ask yourselves, do you go out at the weekend to have a good time - or do you go out at the weekend to get totally well and truly unbelievable s**tfaced?

I have a feeling for most people in this country it's the second option.

MoantheCabbage
11-08-2009, 01:11 PM
Doddie, The Todd.

Are you basing your opinion on fact or myth?

I cant grasp your points in the fact that according to you both and a few others on here everyone who drinks is going to casue complete mayhem by causing aggro to fellow fans, other fans or being sick etc and spilling pints on your back.

What world do you live in? I go to the pub regularly to socialise and can count on 1 hand how many fights etc ive seen in the last 10+ years, Yes some people can get out of control but as previously stated from the Bolton stats it was less than 1%

Not to mention the fact that if someone is over inebriated then the person selling the alcohol can refuse. They can also operate an over 25 licence etc.

But yet again dont let any facts get in the way

libernian
11-08-2009, 01:36 PM
The problem isn't what people drink in the ground it's what they drink before they get in.

The drinks ban encourages people to stay as long as possible in the pub. It will make it more likely to have Hillesborough type crushes outside the ground for big matches.

well i've been to the game and left at half time many times to go back to the pub... its just boring without a bevvy a lot of the time.

maybe they could make it that in cat A games your not allowed but in cat B like v gretna etc we can get drunk?

--------
11-08-2009, 01:44 PM
Doddie, The Todd.

Are you basing your opinion on fact or myth?

I cant grasp your points in the fact that according to you both and a few others on here everyone who drinks is going to casue complete mayhem by causing aggro to fellow fans, other fans or being sick etc and spilling pints on your back.

What world do you live in? I go to the pub regularly to socialise and can count on 1 hand how many fights etc ive seen in the last 10+ years, Yes some people can get out of control but as previously stated from the Bolton stats it was less than 1%

Not to mention the fact that if someone is over inebriated then the person selling the alcohol can refuse. They can also operate an over 25 licence etc.

But yet again dont let any facts get in the way


First, I don't think I or The Todd have suggested the EVERYONE who drinks is going to cause COMPLETE MAYHEM by causing aggro to fellow fans.

But please don't address the points we do make - set up your own version and argue with that. It's easier, I know.

It's not just about whether actual fighting breaks out - it's about the atmosphere in the ground and the way people relate to one another. Football naturally generates disagreement and argy-bargy - I'm not sure I want alcohol added to that scenario right in the stadium where I can't move away if things get awkward. In the old days of the terracing one COULD move away. In all-seated grandstands, one can't.

I'm well aware that the licencee can refuse to sell drink to anyone if he or she doesn't want to. However, refusal in those circumstances frequently causes offence. You're not seriously suggesting that a stadium licence would be an over-25 licence, are you?

I have a friend from University days who used to go down every year to Headingley for the Saturday of the cricket Test there - regardless of who happened to be playing. It was the easiest and most convenient way open to him of seeing a bit of Test cricket in real life.

He doesn't go now, after finding himself just a little too close to the West Terrace at a match against either India or Pakistan. England were struggling (no change there, then) and the boys with the St George's flags were getting restless. Much drink was being taken.

As the noise and bother increased, people who just wanted to watch cricket began to move away, and the various groups of drinkers eventually coalesced into one BIG group of loud, drunken, boorish louts singing 'Land of Hope and Glory', 'Rule Britannia', and the Betty Windsor Song.

Their other pastime was setting up a wolfish howl every time an Asian woman was unwise enough to walk along the pathway in front of the stand. They would then spend the next few minutes chanting after her, "Show us yer chapatti!" and other gems of skinhead, redneck, racist 'wit'. The police stood by, grinning indulgently. Perhaps some of the same officers had stood by grinning while the Hillsborough disaster unfolded.

A sports stadium isn't a pub. There's a tribal element to the atmosphere at a sports ground absent from most other places. There's also an edge to people's emotions in a stadium that isn't present elsewhere. Will we get in in time for the kick-off? Will we win the game? Why are we losing this game? that's what makes the difference, and that difference has to be taken account of, IMO.

I have NO PROBLEM with BTG. I have no problem with the idea of providing full catering and licenced facilities in the new East - supposing we ever get round to building it. I can see no reason why we shouldn't have the same in the West Stand, if that's what the club decides to do.

But if we want it to work, and if we would like to take the concept forward to where perhaps one day we WILL be able to reach a place where Scottish stadia are run like those in the Czech Republic or the USA, then the people who have to be convinced are the people who wouldn't even come as far to meet you as I or The Todd will - the police and the magistrates.

And right now people shuttling back and forward from the bars with pints, and then back again to the toilets, and all the general bother and disturbance that that would cause - none of that appeals to me, OK? :wink:

The_Todd
11-08-2009, 02:44 PM
Doddie, The Todd.

Are you basing your opinion on fact or myth?

I cant grasp your points in the fact that according to you both and a few others on here everyone who drinks is going to casue complete mayhem by causing aggro to fellow fans, other fans or being sick etc and spilling pints on your back.

What world do you live in? I go to the pub regularly to socialise and can count on 1 hand how many fights etc ive seen in the last 10+ years, Yes some people can get out of control but as previously stated from the Bolton stats it was less than 1%

Not to mention the fact that if someone is over inebriated then the person selling the alcohol can refuse. They can also operate an over 25 licence etc.

But yet again dont let any facts get in the way

I never said that - please quote me directly to support this claim.

I simply said I think the culture in the UK is too much of a "drink to get smashed", whereas other countries it's "go out for fun, and have a couple of drinks on the way". In this country is all about how much you can drink, and how quickly. All macho bull as far as I'm concerned.

MoantheCabbage
11-08-2009, 02:50 PM
First, I don't think I or The Todd have suggested the EVERYONE who drinks is going to cause COMPLETE MAYHEM by causing aggro to fellow fans.

But please don't address the points we do make - set up your own version and argue with that. It's easier, I know.

It's not just about whether actual fighting breaks out - it's about the atmosphere in the ground and the way people relate to one another. Football naturally generates disagreement and argy-bargy - I'm not sure I want alcohol added to that scenario right in the stadium where I can't move away if things get awkward. In the old days of the terracing one COULD move away. In all-seated grandstands, one can't.

I'm well aware that the licencee can refuse to sell drink to anyone if he or she doesn't want to. However, refusal in those circumstances frequently causes offence. You're not seriously suggesting that a stadium licence would be an over-25 licence, are you?

I have a friend from University days who used to go down every year to Headingley for the Saturday of the cricket Test there - regardless of who happened to be playing. It was the easiest and most convenient way open to him of seeing a bit of Test cricket in real life.

He doesn't go now, after finding himself just a little too close to the West Terrace at a match against either India or Pakistan. England were struggling (no change there, then) and the boys with the St George's flags were getting restless. Much drink was being taken.

As the noise and bother increased, people who just wanted to watch cricket began to move away, and the various groups of drinkers eventually coalesced into one BIG group of loud, drunken, boorish louts singing 'Land of Hope and Glory', 'Rule Britannia', and the Betty Windsor Song.

Their other pastime was setting up a wolfish howl every time an Asian woman was unwise enough to walk along the pathway in front of the stand. They would then spend the next few minutes chanting after her, "Show us yer chapatti!" and other gems of skinhead, redneck, racist 'wit'. The police stood by, grinning indulgently. Perhaps some of the same officers had stood by grinning while the Hillsborough disaster unfolded.

A sports stadium isn't a pub. There's a tribal element to the atmosphere at a sports ground absent from most other places. There's also an edge to people's emotions in a stadium that isn't present elsewhere. Will we get in in time for the kick-off? Will we win the game? Why are we losing this game? that's what makes the difference, and that difference has to be taken account of, IMO.

I have NO PROBLEM with BTG. I have no problem with the idea of providing full catering and licenced facilities in the new East - supposing we ever get round to building it. I can see no reason why we shouldn't have the same in the West Stand, if that's what the club decides to do.

But if we want it to work, and if we would like to take the concept forward to where perhaps one day we WILL be able to reach a place where Scottish stadia are run like those in the Czech Republic or the USA, then the people who have to be convinced are the people who wouldn't even come as far to meet you as I or The Todd will - the police and the magistrates.

And right now people shuttling back and forward from the bars with pints, and then back again to the toilets, and all the general bother and disturbance that that would cause - none of that appeals to me, OK? :wink:

I am shocked to say the least that you need to bring a racist element of something that happened at a cricket ground in Leeds in to this very debate as from where im sitting it has absolutely no relevance and your clearly just scare mongering.

I will however address your other point in not being able to move within the ground. As yet there is no drinking available at any scottish ground but can you say you have never came across someone drunk at a game?

The point being which I have stated many times is that the amount of people who attend games and the amount that have had a drink or are really drunk causing a nuisance is not even comparable and would suggest most likely 1 in every thousand.

Even if people where being out of order this that and the other there are means and ways of dealing with this i.e rock steady or the police not to mention camera's and football banning orders.

Another point is that no matter what people like to think, people having a pint at a game would definatly not get through anymore than 3 at a very max and thats pushing it which hardly collates to them being an alkie.

Going to any event be it football, rugby, concert etc etc people will always want to leave the area they are in to go for the toilet something to eat or whatever takes there fancy really and to be honest how much of any event have you actually missed because of this?

brog
11-08-2009, 03:10 PM
I am shocked to say the least that you need to bring a racist element of something that happened at a cricket ground in Leeds in to this very debate as from where im sitting it has absolutely no relevance and your clearly just scare mongering.

I will however address your other point in not being able to move within the ground. As yet there is no drinking available at any scottish ground but can you say you have never came across someone drunk at a game?

The point being which I have stated many times is that the amount of people who attend games and the amount that have had a drink or are really drunk causing a nuisance is not even comparable and would suggest most likely 1 in every thousand.

Even if people where being out of order this that and the other there are means and ways of dealing with this i.e rock steady or the police not to mention camera's and football banning orders.

Another point is that no matter what people like to think, people having a pint at a game would definatly not get through anymore than 3 at a very max and thats pushing it which hardly collates to them being an alkie.

Going to any event be it football, rugby, concert etc etc people will always want to leave the area they are in to go for the toilet something to eat or whatever takes there fancy really and to be honest how much of any event have you actually missed because of this?

I'm maybe missing something here guys but I think you're actually in violent agreement! :wink: