Christ v Claus: Fave Mythological Christian Figure

[Dashing Bob S]

As there is no evidence to suggest that either existed, but both have different superpowers, (one can turn water into wine etc the other can get down chimneys despite being fat and leave presents for white children), who is your favourite fictious Christian cultural figure?

[hibsbollah]

:faf: I'm sure this will stir things up a bit.

Wheres the 'George Bailey' option anyway?

[sg7nil]

I have to say that despite not being religious I think that you will find that there is rather a lot of documentary evidence that shows Jesus did exist.. (he may well have not been the son of god, of the product of a virgin womb.. however)

I think that you will also find that St Nicholas was a genuine person, and there is even more documentary evidence that he did exist.. (following copied from Wikipedia)...

Saint Nicholas (Greek (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_language): Άγιος Νικόλαος , Agios Nikolaos, "victory of the people") (270 - 6 December 346) is the common name for Nicholas of Myra, a saint (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint) and Bishop (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bishop) of Myra (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myra) (in Lycia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lycia), part of modern-day Turkey (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkey)). Because of the many miracles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle) attributed to his intercession (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intercession), he is also known as Nicholas the Wonderworker. He had a reputation for secret gift-giving, such as putting coins in the shoes of those who left them out for him, and thus became the model for Santa Claus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Claus), whose English name comes from the Dutch (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_language) Sinterklaas. His reputation evolved among the faithful, as is common for early Christian saints.[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Nicholas#cite_note-1) In 1087, his relics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relic) were furtively translated (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Translation_(relics)) to Bari (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bari), in southern Italy; for this reason, he is also known as Nicholas of Bari (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bari).
The historical Saint Nicholas is remembered and revered among Catholic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Catholic_Church) and Orthodox (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Orthodoxy) Christians. He is also honoured by various Anglican (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglican) and Lutheran (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lutheran) churches. Saint Nicholas is the patron saint (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patron_saint) of sailors (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sailors), merchants, archers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archery), and children, and students in Greece (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greece), Belgium (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgium), Romania (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romania), Bulgaria (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulgaria), Georgia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_(country)), Russia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia), the Republic of Macedonia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Macedonia), Slovakia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slovakia), Serbia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbia) and Montenegro (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montenegro). He is also the patron saint of Barranquilla (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barranquilla), Bari (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bari), Amsterdam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amsterdam), Beit Jala (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beit_Jala), and Liverpool (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liverpool). In 1809, the New-York Historical Society (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New-York_Historical_Society) convened and retroactively named Sancte Claus the patron saint of Nieuw Amsterdam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Amsterdam), the Dutch (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_language) name for New York City (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City).[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Nicholas#cite_note-2) He was also a patron of the Varangian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varangian) Guard of the Byzantine emperors (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine_emperors), who protected his relics in Bari.

Despite the fact that I take all of the miracles attributed to him with a very large pinch of salt, I believe that he was possibly a good guy who did leave secret gifts for people.

Therefore I think your "mythological" heading is possibly a bit misleading.:wink:

[J-C]

I have been to that part of Turkey, he was a religious man who used to help the poor and needy children of the area and his reputation as a great man became legendary.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/ff/1863_harpers.jpg/180px-1863_harpers.jpg (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/File:1863_harpers.jpg) http://www.hibs.net/skins-1.5/common/images/magnify-clip.png (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/File:1863_harpers.jpg)
Santa Claus hands out gifts during the American Civil War (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/American_Civil_War) in Thomas Nast (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Thomas_Nast)'s first Santa Claus cartoon (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Cartoon), Harper's Weekly (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Harper%27s_Weekly), 1863

Originating from Western culture (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Western_culture), where the holiday (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Holiday) is characterized by the exchange of gifts (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Gifts) among friends and family members, some of the gifts are attributed to a character called Father Christmas (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Father_Christmas) (also known as Santa Claus (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Santa_Claus), Saint Nicholas (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Saint_Nicholas) or St. Nikolaus, Sinterklaas (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Sinterklaas), Kris Kringle, Père Noël, Joulupukki (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Joulupukki), Babbo Natale (http://www.hibs.net/w/index.php?title=Babbo_Natale&action=edit&redlink=1), Weihnachtsmann (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Weihnachtsmann), Saint Basil (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Basil_of_Caesarea) and Father Frost (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Ded_Moroz)).
The popular image of Santa Claus was created by the German-American (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/German_American) cartoonist Thomas Nast (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Thomas_Nast) (1840–1902), who drew a new image annually, beginning in 1863. By the 1880s, Nast's Santa had evolved into the form we now recognize. The image was standardized by advertisers in the 1920s.[46] (http://www.hibs.net/message/#cite_note-Mikkelson-45)
Father Christmas, who predates the Santa Claus character, was first recorded in the 15th century, but was associated with holiday merrymaking and drunkenness (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Drunkenness).[47] (http://www.hibs.net/message/#cite_note-Harper-46) In Victorian Britain (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Victorian_Britain), his image was remade to match that of Santa. The French Père Noël (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/P%C3%A8re_No%C3%ABl) evolved along similar lines, eventually adopting the Santa image. In Italy, Babbo Natale acts as Santa Claus, while La Befana (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/La_Befana) is the bringer of gifts and arrives on the eve of the Epiphany (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Epiphany_(Christian)). It is said that La Befana set out to bring the baby Jesus (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Jesus) gifts, but got lost along the way. Now, she brings gifts to all children. In some cultures Santa Claus is accompanied by Knecht Ruprecht (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Knecht_Ruprecht), or Black Peter (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Black_Peter). In other versions, elves (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Elf) make the toys. His wife is referred to as Mrs. Claus (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Mrs._Claus).
It is often claimed that the basis for the North American figure of Santa Claus (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Santa_Claus) is the Dutch (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Netherlands) holyman and bringer of gifts Sinterklaas (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Sinterklaas). During the American War of Independence (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/American_War_of_Independence) the inhabitants of New York City (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/New_York_City), a former Dutch colonial town (New Amsterdam (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/New_Amsterdam)) which had been swapped by the Dutch for other territories, reinvented their Sinterklaas tradition, as Saint Nicholas was a symbol of the city's non-English past.[48] (http://www.hibs.net/message/#cite_note-47) The name Santa Claus supposedly is derived from older Dutch Sinte Klaas. However, the Saint Nicholas Society was not founded until 1835, almost half a century after the end of the American War of Independence.[49] (http://www.hibs.net/message/#cite_note-48) Moreover, a study of the "children's books, periodicals and journals" of New Amsterdam by Charles Jones revealed no references to Saint Nicholas or Sinterklaas.[50] (http://www.hibs.net/message/#cite_note-49) However, not all scholars agree with Jones's findings, which he reiterated in a booklength study in 1978;[51] (http://www.hibs.net/message/#cite_note-50) Howard G. Hageman, of New Brunswick Theological Seminary, maintains that the tradition of celebrating Sinterklaas in New York was alive and well from the early settlement of the Hudson Valley (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Hudson_Valley) on.[52] (http://www.hibs.net/message/#cite_note-51)
The current tradition (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Tradition) in several Latin American (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Latin_American) countries (such as Venezuela (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Venezuela) and Colombia (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Colombia)) holds that while Santa makes the toys, he then gives them to the Baby Jesus, who is the one who actually delivers them to the children's homes. This story is meant to be a reconciliation between traditional religious beliefs (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Religion) and modern day globalization (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Globalization), most notably the iconography (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Iconography) of Santa Claus imported from the United States.
In Alto Adige/Südtirol (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Alto_Adige/S%C3%BCdtirol) (Italy), Austria, Czech Republic, Southern Germany, Hungary, Liechtenstein (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Liechtenstein), Slovakia (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Slovakia) and Switzerland, the Christkind (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Christkind) (Ježíšek (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Je%C5%BE%C3%AD%C5%A1ek) in Czech, Jézuska in Hungarian and Ježiško in Slovak) brings the presents. The German St. Nikolaus is not identical with the Weihnachtsman (who is the German version of Santa Claus). St. Nikolaus wears a bishop (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Bishop)'s dress and still brings small gifts (usually candies, nuts and fruits) on December 6 and is accompanied by Knecht Ruprecht (http://www.hibs.net/wiki/Knecht_Ruprecht). Although many parents around the world routinely teach their children about Santa Claus and other gift bringers, some have come to reject this practice, considering it deceptive.[53 (http://www.hibs.net/message/#cite_note-52)

As has been said, Jesus has been extensively documented and although there are no records of him, many, maqny people have written about him, so we can take it as read that he existed.

Jesus's date of birth is up for question, Christmas is generally thought to have started as a Pagan festival and Jesus's birthday nearer september/october.

[Fantic]

As there is no evidence to suggest that either existed, but both have different superpowers, (one can turn water into wine etc the other can get down chimneys despite being fat and leave presents for white children), who is your favourite fictious Christian cultural figure?


Imagine winter with no Christmas :wink:

[Hannah_hfc]

As there is no evidence to suggest that either existed, but both have different superpowers, (one can turn water into wine etc the other can get down chimneys despite being fat and leave presents for white children), who is your favourite fictious Christian cultural figure?


Is Santa not a result of westernised Christmas as opposed to the Christian Christmas?

[HibsMax]

I voted "Other" and my vote goes to Mr Hanky the Christmas poo. As has already been mentioned, the other two guys existed (in some fashion or another).

lol @ presents for white children.

[joe breezy]

John Knox - he had a great beard

[RmR]

Had to vote forKrampus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krampus#Krampus) myself. Now he would really keep the kids well behaved !!