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Alicky Ranks
02-08-2009, 05:53 PM
While we now have a manager in place who at least understands what the fans expect of Hibs (ie a competitive team with an onus on attractive football), I'm not convinced he's in a position to achieve even that modest target. Yes Yogi talks a great game but where is the evidence he can deliver what he wants? I left Easter Road in a pretty gloomy frame of mind yesterday. I know it was a friendly but think you can read more into these games than a lot of managers admit. IMHO there was nothing there to suggest we can expect anything better than what we've endured over the last couple of seasons. The bulk of the new signings have come from a team which only avoided relegation on the last day of the season and having sold Jones, we are left with a defence which will crumble against any half decent team. That's fine if all we're looking for is another mid table finish (because let's face it the overall standard of the SPL is utter dross), but talk of a return to the Mowbray era is unrealistic. I had a season ticket last year but didn't go to a single game after Christmas. I was tempted back yesterday but will be waiting to see if I'm proved wrong before venturing back again. It's all very well to preach loyalty to your team through thick and thin, but things have been too thin for too long and I suspect I'm one of many who still can't really be ersed with it any more.

Mikey
02-08-2009, 05:54 PM
Nope.

matty_f
02-08-2009, 05:57 PM
Nope.

:agree:

GloryGlory
02-08-2009, 05:59 PM
:jamboclow

:bye:

marinello59
02-08-2009, 05:59 PM
I am looking forward to it.

Bishop Hibee
02-08-2009, 06:00 PM
Realistic not depressed.

Mag7
02-08-2009, 06:03 PM
While we now have a manager in place who at least understands what the fans expect of Hibs (ie a competitive team with an onus on attractive football), I'm not convinced he's in a position to achieve even that modest target. Yes Yogi talks a great game but where is the evidence he can deliver what he wants? I left Easter Road in a pretty gloomy frame of mind yesterday. I know it was a friendly but think you can read more into these games than a lot of managers admit. IMHO there was nothing there to suggest we can expect anything better than what we've endured over the last couple of seasons. The bulk of the new signings have come from a team which only avoided relegation on the last day of the season and having sold Jones, we are left with a defence which will crumble against any half decent team. That's fine if all we're looking for is another mid table finish (because let's face it the overall standard of the SPL is utter dross), but talk of a return to the Mowbray era is unrealistic. I had a season ticket last year but didn't go to a single game after Christmas. I was tempted back yesterday but will be waiting to see if I'm proved wrong before venturing back again. It's all very well to preach loyalty to your team through thick and thin, but things have been too thin for too long and I suspect I'm one of many who still can't really be ersed with it any more.


Good post. That pretty much sums it up for me too. I'll always be a Hibs fan but I'm not planning to pay to watch them any time soon.

Cameron1875
02-08-2009, 06:04 PM
why is it that if someone posts something that isnt exactly correct people start to call him a yam, yam clown etc. :confused:

lyonhibs
02-08-2009, 06:09 PM
While we now have a manager in place who at least understands what the fans expect of Hibs (ie a competitive team with an onus on attractive football), I'm not convinced he's in a position to achieve even that modest target. Yes Yogi talks a great game but where is the evidence he can deliver what he wants? I left Easter Road in a pretty gloomy frame of mind yesterday. I know it was a friendly but think you can read more into these games than a lot of managers admit. IMHO there was nothing there to suggest we can expect anything better than what we've endured over the last couple of seasons. The bulk of the new signings have come from a team which only avoided relegation on the last day of the season and having sold Jones, we are left with a defence which will crumble against any half decent team. That's fine if all we're looking for is another mid table finish (because let's face it the overall standard of the SPL is utter dross), but talk of a return to the Mowbray era is unrealistic. I had a season ticket last year but didn't go to a single game after Christmas. I was tempted back yesterday but will be waiting to see if I'm proved wrong before venturing back again. It's all very well to preach loyalty to your team through thick and thin, but things have been too thin for too long - aye, historically speaking, the 2 years its been since we won the League Cup is far too long to go trophyless for Hibs.................:rolleyes: and I suspect I'm one of many who still can't really be ersed with it any more.

So, errr, nope, I'm not depressed about the new season, going into it hoping that Yogi will have got a couple of signings before the St Mirren game, and certainly before September 1st, but I'll be at Bolton, St Mirren and as many games as I can make after that. Not an "uber-fan" statement, just a summary of my position. We live in hope, as always :agree: :agree:

GGTTH

iwasthere1972
02-08-2009, 06:17 PM
While we now have a manager in place who at least understands what the fans expect of Hibs (ie a competitive team with an onus on attractive football), I'm not convinced he's in a position to achieve even that modest target. Yes Yogi talks a great game but where is the evidence he can deliver what he wants? I left Easter Road in a pretty gloomy frame of mind yesterday. I know it was a friendly but think you can read more into these games than a lot of managers admit. IMHO there was nothing there to suggest we can expect anything better than what we've endured over the last couple of seasons. The bulk of the new signings have come from a team which only avoided relegation on the last day of the season and having sold Jones, we are left with a defence which will crumble against any half decent team. That's fine if all we're looking for is another mid table finish (because let's face it the overall standard of the SPL is utter dross), but talk of a return to the Mowbray era is unrealistic. I had a season ticket last year but didn't go to a single game after Christmas. I was tempted back yesterday but will be waiting to see if I'm proved wrong before venturing back again. It's all very well to preach loyalty to your team through thick and thin, but things have been too thin for too long and I suspect I'm one of many who still can't really be ersed with it any more.

Depressed is probably too strong a word to use at this early stage. A word that could be used if yesterday we were playing in a competitive game such as a league game, Scottish Cup Final;, "Diddy" Cup Final etc. Yesterday was a friendly and although I would have been much happier today if we had won I'm far from being depressed.

At the age of 29 you probably have a better chance of seeing Hibs win the Scottish Cup than a large percentage of posters on this messageboard. If you want to discuss depression then bring it on. :greengrin

Mag7
02-08-2009, 06:19 PM
So, errr, nope, I'm not depressed about the new season, going into it hoping that Yogi will have got a couple of signings before the St Mirren game, and certainly before September 1st, but I'll be at Bolton, St Mirren and as many games as I can make after that. Not an "uber-fan" statement, just a summary of my position. We live in hope, as always :agree: :agree:

GGTTH

No offence, but I think it's the 'live in hope' mentality that is the problem with most Hibs fans. 'Living in hope' gets you a paltry three League Cups in 60 odd years. If the fans tried to raise the bar a bit instead of shrugging their shoulders and muttering 'typical Hibs' we might actually have a team which aspires to more than mediocrity. Aside from the football on display, one of the reasons I've stopped going is because I was p***ing too many folk off who sat near me by dishing out a few heartfelt expletives at the latest dirge-filled Hibs performance. Fair dos, I can go OTT at times, but I couldn't just sit there and take that p**h on the pitch. I guess when your first introduction to Hibs came when Stanton and Cropley were still in the team you should maybe just accept it's all going to be downhill from there.

RigRoars
02-08-2009, 06:21 PM
No,i'm still looking forward to it.

We need to give Yogi a chance,the seasons not even started yet ffs.

I think a lot of these Yogi doubters/bashers are going to end up looking rather foolish as the season plays out :agree:

iwasthere1972
02-08-2009, 06:26 PM
why is it that if someone posts something that isnt exactly correct people start to call him a yam, yam clown etc. :confused:


:jamboclow:gun::bye:

:hilarious

Killiehibbie
02-08-2009, 06:27 PM
No offence, but I think it's the 'live in hope' mentality that is the problem with most Hibs fans. 'Living in hope' gets you a paltry three League Cups in 60 odd years. If the fans tried to raise the bar a bit instead of shrugging their shoulders and muttering 'typical Hibs' we might actually have a team which aspires to more than mediocrity. Aside from the football on display, one of the reasons I've stopped going is because I was p***ing too many folk off who sat near me by dishing out a few heartfelt expletives at the latest dirge-filled Hibs performance. Fair dos, I can go OTT at times, but I couldn't just sit there and take that p**h on the pitch. I guess when your first introduction to Hibs came when Stanton and Cropley were still in the team you should maybe just accept it's all going to be downhill from there.

If you want to go back 60 odds years you might find a couple of Leagues in there as well. At least give it half a dozen League games into the season before jumping off that bridge.

H1bs6H3arts2 FC
02-08-2009, 06:29 PM
While we now have a manager in place who at least understands what the fans expect of Hibs (ie a competitive team with an onus on attractive football), I'm not convinced he's in a position to achieve even that modest target. Yes Yogi talks a great game but where is the evidence he can deliver what he wants? I left Easter Road in a pretty gloomy frame of mind yesterday. I know it was a friendly but think you can read more into these games than a lot of managers admit. IMHO there was nothing there to suggest we can expect anything better than what we've endured over the last couple of seasons. The bulk of the new signings have come from a team which only avoided relegation on the last day of the season and having sold Jones, we are left with a defence which will crumble against any half decent team. That's fine if all we're looking for is another mid table finish (because let's face it the overall standard of the SPL is utter dross), but talk of a return to the Mowbray era is unrealistic. I had a season ticket last year but didn't go to a single game after Christmas. I was tempted back yesterday but will be waiting to see if I'm proved wrong before venturing back again. It's all very well to preach loyalty to your team through thick and thin, but things have been too thin for too long and I suspect I'm one of many who still can't really be ersed with it any more.

yer full of wind n pish !!! :blah:

get that vally script sorted a the docs mate !!! :yawn:

Blurry Face
02-08-2009, 06:30 PM
good grief no. the new season brings new hope with it. It may still take a bit of this season for things to click, new manager and new players after all, but I'm optimistic they will.

Alicky Ranks
02-08-2009, 06:33 PM
Depressed is probably too strong a word to use at this early stage. A word that could be used if yesterday we were playing in a competitive game such as a league game, Scottish Cup Final;, "Diddy" Cup Final etc. Yesterday was a friendly and although I would have been much happier today if we had won I'm far from being depressed.

At the age of 29 you probably have a better chance of seeing Hibs win the Scottish Cup than a large percentage of posters on this messageboard. If you want to discuss depression then bring it on. :greengrin

Point taken, though winning the Scottish Cup is not the be all and end all for me as a Hibs fan. I'd far rather watch a team which finished consistently high up the league playing attractive football.

iwasthere1972
02-08-2009, 06:40 PM
If you want to go back 60 odds years you might find a couple of Leagues in there as well. At least give it half a dozen League games into the season before jumping off that bridge.

Also a couple of Dryborough Cups. :wink:

P.S. Remember it being paraded around Easter Road during a midweek game in what was no more that a glorified wheelbarrow if I mind correctly. I know it was a proper diddy cup but you would think that the sponsors name would be spelt correctly. The wording on the "wheelbarrow" was Dryburgh - I think.

SanFranHibs
02-08-2009, 06:58 PM
Although I can only judge from the online video highlights and reports I think Hibs will try to play better football than last season but our results might not reflect this because I cannot see out current midfield lineup controlling many games. I think we will see quite a few great linkup moves from the Zemmama, Riordan and 'occasionally' others and we should see a few cracking goals, but I fear as it stands we will find ourselves defending rather a lot, dependiong on quick counter attacks.

Fact is, whatever the merits of Fletcher and Jones, we have not replaced them with players of equal ability so they must be missed, which will only highlight our other deficiencies.

However, things should solidify once Murray returns and I would welcome the return of Benji. He would just give us more options and I feel convinced that if he did return Hughes could get him in the right frame of mind. Highly improbable I know, but still seems like a decent player without having to pay a transfer fee. Even if it was just for a good half season and Hibs could then sell him on and perhaps pick up a little more cash. And ano0ther reason why I think the return of Benji a decent move is I don't feel Hughes will be allocated the resources to sign any new players that would be an obvious improvement to our squad.

But as I said, I expect improved football without better results.

scottp1875
02-08-2009, 07:08 PM
I am looking forward to it.

yep looking forward to it. usual pre-season optimism for me, certainly more optimistic than last season

Vini1875
02-08-2009, 07:09 PM
I think it would fair to say that things are not great at the minute, but I found the defeat to Shamrock Rovers much more worrying. I still don't think Yogi has his first 11 sorted out and to be fair to him at this stage that's alright.

We could suffer heavy defeats at Blackburn and Bolton, but by the time we have a competitive game I expect Yogi to have his team and tactics sorted.

That said some things are obvious; Nish is not a target man and cannot play as a lone striker, Bamba is a bomb scare as a central defender and a much better holding midfielder, DVZ is no more than a squad player, McBride and Rankin need to be stronger and are really only squad players and finally we need a keeper who can organise the back four.

IWasThere2016
02-08-2009, 07:14 PM
Not depressed but a little nervous.

We need new blood, as follows IMHO:

1) A RB (DVZ is not the answer and McCann isn't ready)

2) Another CH - Left sided preferably as IM would IMHO be better in midfield than Rankin or McBride.

3) A striker. Nish not consistent enough. JJ best as a partner and not centre of 3 up front (assuming Deeks and Zemamma play wide)

And

4) A creative CM. We are too 'samey' with Cregg, Rankin and McBride.

I really feel its all 4 too - not just 3 and defo not just two of these. Failure to do so will add to my nervousness...

cad
02-08-2009, 07:52 PM
A bit apprehensive after watching yesterdays match.
I think Yogi will have to wield the axe a bit more between now, and Jan, still to much deadwood IMO we have 6,7 players the rest we have to make do with and do as best we can .
Is the youth going to step up to the plate , I hope so, if 2 or 3 got up to the mark it would be a huge bonus ,and a big ask of these young players .
Its a long term thing 3, 4 seasons so its time to knuckle down and support the players and Yogi through the big changes that will have to happen .
No pain no gain comes to mind .
Replacements for Jones and Fletch plus 1 or 2 others and I think we wont be to badly off , whether Yogi can get us 3rd place at his first attempt will be interesting.
I would imagine there will be some ducking and diving in the transfer market before the start of the season ,so lets just wait till the end of the transfer window and see who we end up with .



GGTTH:flag:

NAE NOOKIE
02-08-2009, 09:51 PM
I thought we were OK in the first half yesterday and had quite a few attempts on goal ( mostly Deeks ) but came up against an excellent keeper.

The three things which were most noticable to me were:

1) At times we tried too many passes in tight areas instead of looking to spread the play.

2) It was pretty alarming how soft the 2nd and 3rd PNE goals were, with the defense posted missing at both. Not bothered about the first one coz that was an individual error and can happen to any player no matter how good.

3) The inability of our forwards and midfield to find or make space to play the passing game. Too many times, in the 2nd half especially, they didnt move the ball quickly enough and there wasnt enough movement in the last 3rd.

BoltonHibee
02-08-2009, 10:04 PM
We played the two fullbacks far too far forward. Maka had the choice of lumping it up the park or playing it to the two in front of him. So most moves were started through the middle. Their Midfield had our full backs that had pushed forward marked fairly tightly ( Although they could have left DVZ alone as he will never make a footballer in the memory of man). So we had few options when it came to passing. The way the PNE midfield pressed, we were panicked into a pass, with few viable options.

So we very rarely got the width or the penetration on the flanks I think Yogi was trying to acheive. As Bovril mentioned two of the goals were a direct result of that positioning. I was amazed that Yogi persisted with this the entire game as it was fairly obvious what was likely to happen. The number of times we were left 2 on 2 at the back or even outnumbered was unbelievable.So tactically naiveity was partially to blame for the defeat in my book.

We had one of the best midfielders in Scotland last season in Bamba, by moving him to Centre Back not only weakens that position but makes Bamba less of a player ( He was good yesterday, the mistake aside).

I would say worried about the season ahead. If we make no further signings, it is going to be a long long haul. I know Yogi wants to play the passing game, on the Shamrock game and yesterday's evidence I think he has the tactics slightly wrong and I really do not think he has the personnel to carry it off.

RB, CB, LB another creative midfielder and a forward are desperately required.

Ed De Gramo
02-08-2009, 10:10 PM
I'm looking forward to the new season...

Missed yesterdays game but what I saw at Dunfermline impressed me :agree:

We shouldn't read too much into the Preston game....bearing in mind they just missed out on the Premiership and their season starts next saturday :agree:

BoltonHibee
02-08-2009, 10:15 PM
I'm looking forward to the new season...

Missed yesterdays game but what I saw at Dunfermline impressed me :agree:

We shouldn't read too much into the Preston game....bearing in mind they just missed out on the Premiership and their season starts next saturday :agree:

I didn't think PNE were that great yesterday tbh. They worked hard and pressed hard in the midfield. We were restricted to longer range efforts so never really got in and around the defence, but we were playing woth Nish so that may explain it. We did push their defence a little when we brought on Byrne and Galbraith. We lost the game with an individual error in defence and two goals through suicidal defending.

But they did not look great, a better team would have destroyed our defence in the 1st half.

So I would read a quite a bit into yesterdays game.

Jamesie
02-08-2009, 10:15 PM
If we toil at home against St Mirren I'll be worried, but I must say right now I am not particularly looking forward to the new term and I don't have much of an appetite at all for it. Probably because Scottish football is pish in general.

Iain G
02-08-2009, 10:36 PM
Good post. That pretty much sums it up for me too. I'll always be a Hibs fan but I'm not planning to pay to watch them any time soon.

Good, stay away, will give me more chance of getting a ticket to the Rangers & Yam games when I'm in Edinburgh for Christmas :greengrin

basehibby
02-08-2009, 10:42 PM
Definately not depressed although having watched the last 2 games I'll be concerned if I don't see a couple of good signings in before the end of the window.

If Zemama and Deeks are out we'll look very ordinary indeed IMO. Also the defence needs stiffening with RB & CB being the priorities. That said any new additions need to cut the mustard - we have plenty enough squad men to be going on with.

WHAM
02-08-2009, 10:58 PM
Definately not depressed.

In Tony Mowbrays 1st season we lost to a just relegated Leeds 3-1 in preseason..and that turned into our best season in years. Lets hope for a repeat!

Roll on the new season :wink:

noseyhibby
02-08-2009, 11:00 PM
Sadly, the players that served up some of the most dire performances ever at ER last season are still with us...whatsmore, they are no better than English third tier...
Yogi knows what he wants, but boy is he going to struggle for a good while with the sea of mediocrity at his disposal..and if I were him I'd be thorougly depressed at the prospect of trying to appease the Hibs supporters with the mostly talentless, honest but undeniably average players he is stuck with...
It's going to be a long haul and I expect Hibs to be scraping top 6 again...win one, draw one, lose one....I'm yawning already...and determined to keep my money in my pocket, much like last season....
Fair play to anyone that endured the gutless, inept performances of last season and has come back for more....I admire your commitment, but some of us (approaching 52 years old) can think of more effective, satisfying ways to spend Saturdays....Don't get me wrong, I still harbour thought of coming back...In the meantime, I will rely on the post match summaries of fellow Hibbies and work colleagues, and the neutral press to fathom the progress of Hibs latest manager....It will take a minor miracle for me to return to Easter Road any time soon...After growing up watching Turnbulls Tornadoes, it really is pitiful to watch the utter lack of quality that is Hibs first team...Riordan and Zemmama aside.

surreyhibbie
02-08-2009, 11:20 PM
Nope, I am a Hibby and always will be. Coming home to dear old Musselburgh on the 15th, 9 hour journey, say hello to Mum then off to ER for the St Mirren game. Probably go to the Falkirk Game the following week and then the Celtic game the following Saturday(if I can get a ticket). Travel back down South on the Sunday.

Canny wait!:thumbsup::thumbsup:

iwasthere1972
02-08-2009, 11:22 PM
Sadly, the players that served up some of the most dire performances ever at ER last season are still with us...whatsmore, they are no better than English third tier...
Yogi knows what he wants, but boy is he going to struggle for a good while with the sea of mediocrity at his disposal..and if I were him I'd be thorougly depressed at the prospect of trying to appease the Hibs supporters with the mostly talentless, honest but undeniably average players he is stuck with...
It's going to be a long haul and I expect Hibs to be scraping top 6 again...win one, draw one, lose one....I'm yawning already...and determined to keep my money in my pocket, much like last season....
Fair play to anyone that endured the gutless, inept performances of last season and has come back for more....I admire your commitment, but some of us (approaching 52 years old) can think of more effective, satisfying ways to spend Saturdays....Don't get me wrong, I still harbour thought of coming back...In the meantime, I will rely on the post match summaries of fellow Hibbies and work colleagues, and the neutral press to fathom the progress of Hibs latest manager....It will take a minor miracle for me to return to Easter Road any time soon...After growing up watching Turnbulls Tornadoes, it really is pitiful to watch the utter lack of quality that is Hibs first team...Riordan and Zemmama aside.

Jings I was feeling quite good earlier on but now after reading your post I don't feel very well. Even a Yam on the wind up could come up with a more positive post than yours.

:grr: It's a new season man - Who knows what the future holds. If I had that kind of attitude and only turned up for games that I thought we would win then I too would probably go AWOL.

Your post may ring true in the months to come but at least try and have some optimism for the new season. You never know you might be wanting a ticket for a cup final. :wink:

Sadly we will never see another team to match Turnbulls Tornadoes. These days are well and truly behind us but I would never turn my back on Hibs even if we have more dross than a coalmans sack.

GGTTH.

:flag::flag:

Hibbyradge
02-08-2009, 11:41 PM
:bitchy:

Hibeescott
03-08-2009, 12:20 AM
I think everyone needs to be abit more realistic here!

Last seasons pre-season was awful, the performances were much, much worse than yesterday! Yet despite that we made the top 6 with a **** manager and wernt all that far behind the european places!

Yesterday we were playing against a top championship side, a team stronger than any we will face this season (maybe bar the old firm), and who are a week ahead of us in preparations for the new season and cutting out the individual mistakes their keeper had more saves to make in the match.

Huge over reaction here IMO.

iwasthere1972
03-08-2009, 12:25 AM
I think everyone needs to be abit more realistic here!

Last seasons pre-season was awful, the performances were much, much worse than yesterday! Yet despite that we made the top 6 with a **** manager and wernt all that far behind the european places!

Yesterday we were playing against a top championship side, a team stronger than any we will face this season (maybe bar the old firm), and who are a week ahead of us in preparations for the new season and cutting out the individual mistakes their keeper had more saves to make in the match.

Huge over reaction here IMO.

I think you need to consider what you're writing before you press the "submit reply" button. :agree:

Hibeescott
03-08-2009, 12:28 AM
I think you need to consider what you're writing before you press the "submit reply" button. :agree:

Ok I apologise.....I think 'some people' need to be more realistic.

iwasthere1972
03-08-2009, 12:32 AM
Ok I apologise.....I think 'some people' need to be more realistic.

:thumbsup:

ScottB
03-08-2009, 12:48 AM
It's way too early to go all suicidal! I don't think we can make an accurate call on the seasons prospects before the end of August at the earliest.

In the meantime I think people are talking down the new players way too much and are already creating a myth about just how good Jones was, sure, he was a good player for us, and I liked him. But of all the players we've lost in recent years he is far, far from irreplaceable.

zlatan
03-08-2009, 01:18 AM
I can't wait for football to return, I love the whole armchair fan weekend experience and watching all the live football on Saturday and Sunday.

Sadly I'm far to scunnered with Scottish football to get as excited about it's return, not renewed my ST as I just find everything about our game, from the quality on offer to the highlights show on TV, so utterly guff right now.

I'm not depressed about the season upcoming, more intrigued to see if it actually can get any worse.

Speedway
03-08-2009, 08:15 AM
I do wonder why some of you guys feel there's still a need for you to follow Hibs. Your mental and spiritual well-being would be so much better nourished if you just walked away.

Anyone who wasn't expecting Saturday to turn out like it did, doesn't follow Hibs particularly closely.

We're not very much different in starting personnel than we were last season. What did you think was going to happen?

Expecting Rain
03-08-2009, 08:29 AM
While we now have a manager in place who at least understands what the fans expect of Hibs (ie a competitive team with an onus on attractive football), I'm not convinced he's in a position to achieve even that modest target. Yes Yogi talks a great game but where is the evidence he can deliver what he wants? I left Easter Road in a pretty gloomy frame of mind yesterday. I know it was a friendly but think you can read more into these games than a lot of managers admit. IMHO there was nothing there to suggest we can expect anything better than what we've endured over the last couple of seasons. The bulk of the new signings have come from a team which only avoided relegation on the last day of the season and having sold Jones, we are left with a defence which will crumble against any half decent team. That's fine if all we're looking for is another mid table finish (because let's face it the overall standard of the SPL is utter dross), but talk of a return to the Mowbray era is unrealistic. I had a season ticket last year but didn't go to a single game after Christmas. I was tempted back yesterday but will be waiting to see if I'm proved wrong before venturing back again. It's all very well to preach loyalty to your team through thick and thin, but things have been too thin for too long and I suspect I'm one of many who still can't really be ersed with it any more.

Saturday, Riordan and Zemmama apart was honking, we need a couple of better players rather than any players, i understand the strength of your feelings, unfortunately i`m addicted and too far gone not to go back to ER!:greengrin

hibees_green
03-08-2009, 08:38 AM
Anyone depressed about the new season already?.

I agree with your post but I'm not depressed about it.

Craig_in_Prague
03-08-2009, 09:35 AM
Yogi has been in the door 3 or 4 weeks.

He must have forgot to bring his magic wand with him.

hibees_green
03-08-2009, 09:54 AM
...We're not very much different in starting personnel than we were last season. What did you think was going to happen?

I don't think it's unfair for some to expect things have improved as the club is certainly implying it has with thier current marketing (that is being praised so highly).

The guys was being optimistic and hoped 'Something's happenning down Eater Road way'. Nothing wrong with that is there?

blackpoolhibs
03-08-2009, 10:16 AM
Yogi has been in the door 3 or 4 weeks.

He must have forgot to bring his magic wand with him.

He does not use a wand these days, he's upgraded to gold dust,:wink: sprinkle a little here, a little there and hey presto, we have a winning formula.:wink:Although i think he will have to get some more, petrie sold the last batch for a good profit, yogis been spotted at a few car boot sales trying to locate some more.:devil:

MyJo
03-08-2009, 10:16 AM
Anyone who is depressed about the new season really needs to get a grip and re-evaluate what the ****** they are actually doing supporting hibs, we were absolutely god-awful last season and despite having captain fantastic and a world-class superstar striker (according to some :rolleyes:) in the team we scraped a top 6 finish and played hideous football at the same time.

We have got a new manager in who is promising to deliver the type of football we were all crying out to see last season, however its not going to be an instant transition and its gonna take a lot of work and time to build a capable team and get them to gel as a unit so to start writing the manager and team off after a couple of pre-season friendly defeats when we have a brand new manager and a squad with 12 new faces from last season is utterly ridiculous!

Yes, there are still some signings to be made (Right back, Centre Half, Right winger and Striker IMO) but what Yogi has done so far has been 100% correct IMO and as long as we see the team back to passing football then it'll be a massive improvement on what's been served up for the past 18 months, from that we can kick on and aim for european football and cup success but if I'm being honest I don't expect either of those to come this season anyway while yogi and the team "bed in"

ahibby
03-08-2009, 10:30 AM
I used Saturday as a guage to help me decide whether or not to get a ST. I have decided not to and will pick and choose which games I go to. These pre season friendlies don't really give all that much away but I feel I saw enough to tell me that a ST is not going to be value for money, just yet. We need a CB and a tough ball winner in midfield. We lost the midfield battle and lost the game. I'd like to see us get a player who can get close to controlling midfield. I'd also like to see us get a good centre back to replace Rob Jones. I know many won't agree with me but I don't like Thicot in midfield but prefer him as a centre back. I was disappointed Yogi didn't play him there but Yogi must know something. I was surprised at Bamba playing the CB role so well in the first half and wasn't surprised in the second half when he gave away the first goal. If we get a decent CB and midfielder before the start of the season I will reconsider getting a ST otherwise it's a walk up job from time to time to see how things are progressing or otherwise.

Craig_in_Prague
03-08-2009, 10:36 AM
He does not use a wand these days, he's upgraded to gold dust,:wink: sprinkle a little here, a little there and hey presto, we have a winning formula.:wink:Although i think he will have to get some more, petrie sold the last batch for a good profit, yogis been spotted at a few car boot sales trying to locate some more.:devil:

Football that doesn't give us a stiff neck, is an improvement on last season, when I never felt so depressed about Hibs in all my life (massive 29 years),
seriously, let's all get behind Yogi & the players.
I'm not an optimist but think we're in for a good season :agree:..... and football that won't make our eye's bleed.

See you at ER on 15th to roar on the side :flag:

blackpoolhibs
03-08-2009, 10:46 AM
Football that doesn't give us a stiff neck, is an improvement on last season, when I never felt so depressed about Hibs in all my life (massive 29 years),
seriously, let's all get behind Yogi & the players.
I'm not an optimist but think we're in for a good season :agree:..... and football that won't make our eye's bleed.

See you at ER on 15th to roar on the side :flag:

I'm not so confident as you craig, yes hopefully the football will be better, although for that to happen, we do need better players. The side that finished 6th last season has been weakened, although with a manager in now who should be tactically better, it should make for better chances of decent results and better play. This will only happen though, if yogi is allowed to bring in more players, and get rid of more dross. 2 full backs, a central defender,a right sided midfielder and a centre forward are urgently needed, if not, then its another mediocre fight for top 6 football imho. I'm sure we will bring in more players, but they have to be better than what we currently have, no more journeymen please, we need players who will be 1st names on the team sheet.

mim
03-08-2009, 10:46 AM
I think everyone needs to be abit more realistic here!

Last seasons pre-season was awful, the performances were much, much worse than yesterday! Yet despite that we made the top 6 with a **** manager and wernt all that far behind the european places!

Yesterday we were playing against a top championship side, a team stronger than any we will face this season (maybe bar the old firm), and who are a week ahead of us in preparations for the new season and cutting out the individual mistakes their keeper had more saves to make in the match.

Huge over reaction here IMO.

Good post. That sums up my view exactly. :agree:

sleeping giant
03-08-2009, 11:00 AM
I think everyone needs to be abit more realistic here!

Last seasons pre-season was awful, the performances were much, much worse than yesterday! Yet despite that we made the top 6 with a **** manager and wernt all that far behind the european places!

Yesterday we were playing against a top championship side, a team stronger than any we will face this season (maybe bar the old firm), and who are a week ahead of us in preparations for the new season and cutting out the individual mistakes their keeper had more saves to make in the match.

Huge over reaction here IMO.

Ahhh. Sanity:thumbsup:

Craig_in_Prague
03-08-2009, 11:15 AM
I'm not so confident as you craig, yes hopefully the football will be better, although for that to happen, we do need better players. The side that finished 6th last season has been weakened, although with a manager in now who should be tactically better, it should make for better chances of decent results and better play. This will only happen though, if yogi is allowed to bring in more players, and get rid of more dross. 2 full backs, a central defender,a right sided midfielder and a centre forward are urgently needed, if not, then its another mediocre fight for top 6 football imho. I'm sure we will bring in more players, but they have to be better than what we currently have, no more journeymen please, we need players who will be 1st names on the team sheet.

I totally agree 2-3 more players are needed (for a good season), and I am very sure that Yogi knows this. He'll be trying his hardest to bring in quality players, I have no doubts.
The window aint shut yet, so we shouldn't think the players in place now are all we'll have. There is always movement at the end of the transfer window... and Yogi has made it clear he wants (and expects) players moving in & out.

Sure, we might not achieve 3rd, reach/win cup finals, dominate newspapers for sexy football - but so long as we leave matches knowing the team have resembled a football team, played some good stuff, no glaring tactical mistakes, the players have gave 100% - Then we'll be able to look forward to the next game and not feel like :grr: that (like last season, no matter the score).

Yogi is not niave and he knows he needs more time to change the team. He'll need at least 1 or 2 more transfer windows. But he knows what we want, and so long as we see progress and a team to somewhat enjoy, then it's a good start.

hibsbollah
03-08-2009, 11:18 AM
Anyone who is depressed about the new season really needs to get a grip and re-evaluate what the ****** they are actually doing supporting hibs

:top marks

RIP
03-08-2009, 11:34 AM
I've followed Hibs since I was four and in most of these years we have been a mid-table club.

Still support Hibs though

I sympathise with younger fans though. Scottish Football is fairly poverty-stricken right now - in footballing as well as financial terms. The gap between English and Scottish Football has widened. At the moment I'd rate the Old Firm with the lower end of the Premiership.

Hearts, Aberdeen, United and us on a good day are probably comparable with a mid-table Championship side or a top League 1 side but they pay higher wages. If they now have our best players it's hardly surprising when they beat us.

Let's face it Preston are a better side so why we are warming up our season with aways to Blackburn and Bolton is anyone's guess

johnrebus
03-08-2009, 11:35 AM
Am looking forward to the new season, but with some reservations.

Pre-season seems to be dragging on and on. I can't wait for things to begin in earnest.

Yogi seems to be saying all the right things, and has already cleared out much of the dead wood, but I just hope he now realises what we have known for some time;

1. Bamba is not a central defender
2. DVZ is not good enough.
3. McCormack is a centre half - either play him there or get rid.

I do not believe that Petrie will sanction any transfer fees, so anyone who comes in will be on a free, with the usual risks that entails. Yogi has a good reputation for pulling off loan deals with spetacular results eg. Stokes, so that is probably the best we can hope for.

Collins had the right idea on how the game should be played, but could not spot a player. Mixu could spot a player, but wanted to play hoofball.

We already know that Yogi knows the type of footie he wants, I just hope he can find the players to do it.

Being a Hibs supporter is about being on a rollercoaster. After last season, I'll be happy with more ups than downs.

:cool2:

smurf
03-08-2009, 01:27 PM
Our squad is weaker than last season. The board have to back their managerial appointment with some reinvestment of the 3.5 Million taken in thus far this summer.

blackpoolhibs
03-08-2009, 01:53 PM
Our squad is weaker than last season. The board have to back their managerial appointment with some reinvestment of the 3.5 Million taken in thus far this summer.

Spot on, otherwise yogi is working with one hand tied behind his back, and those waiting in the wings for him to fail, can jump right in with the i told you he would bull****.

smurf
03-08-2009, 02:53 PM
Spot on, otherwise yogi is working with one hand tied behind his back, and those waiting in the wings for him to fail, can jump right in with the i told you he would bull****.

I'd just like to ask Rod Petrie one question.

"Do you think it is reasonable to expect a team with weaker resources than the previous year to achieve more than the previous year?".

Mag7
03-08-2009, 05:58 PM
I do wonder why some of you guys feel there's still a need for you to follow Hibs. Your mental and spiritual well-being would be so much better nourished if you just walked away.

Anyone who wasn't expecting Saturday to turn out like it did, doesn't follow Hibs particularly closely.

We're not very much different in starting personnel than we were last season. What did you think was going to happen?

It's a fair point and it's a course of action I have often considered. Why, in fact, do we, and fans of every other club outwith the Old Firm, bother supporting a club that has no chance of winning the league it plays in? It's really just a recipe for lifelong frustration and disappointment with the odd high point thrown in here and there. Is it really worth all the effort?

JimBHibees
03-08-2009, 07:45 PM
Our squad is weaker than last season. The board have to back their managerial appointment with some reinvestment of the 3.5 Million taken in thus far this summer.

I am sure they will though. Would imagine 2 or 3 will come in before window shuts. If Yogi does a good job though he will be able to get much better performances out of some of the guys Mixu never got to kick a ball.

Ferryhibby
03-08-2009, 08:07 PM
cant believe some of this, we havent even kicked a ball in anger but some are slitting their wrists already, this season will be the same as most of the others wel play good some games **** others excellent in some truly badly in others we might do well in the cup comps but we are playing better than all of last season so theres improvement already so i for one will wait for a few games before building the gallows

ancient hibee
03-08-2009, 08:52 PM
There must be a queue at the Dean Bridge by now.

Hibby 2005
03-08-2009, 09:40 PM
The interesting thing for me looking at highlights of the game v Preston was how two teenagers, Byrne and Galbraith, came on and made a nonsense of the original line-up by showing far more commitment, speed and skill than the players they replaced.

We could do worse than introducing more youngsters into the side as they'll surely add a freshness sadly lacking in some of the current first-team choices.

blackpoolhibs
03-08-2009, 09:50 PM
cant believe some of this, we havent even kicked a ball in anger but some are slitting their wrists already, this season will be the same as most of the others wel play good some games **** others excellent in some truly badly in others we might do well in the cup comps but we are playing better than all of last season so theres improvement already so i for one will wait for a few games before building the gallows

Were do you see this?:confused:

Mag7
04-08-2009, 07:31 AM
cant believe some of this, we havent even kicked a ball in anger but some are slitting their wrists already, this season will be the same as most of the others wel play good some games **** others excellent in some truly badly in others we might do well in the cup comps but we are playing better than all of last season so theres improvement already so i for one will wait for a few games before building the gallows

So just more of the same frustrating under-achievement then? I think that's why some of us just can't see any reason to get too excited.

Phil D. Rolls
04-08-2009, 07:56 AM
I'm depressed, it seems I will once again be surrounded by fans who know so little about football they will try to judge the whole season based on pre-season friendlies. These are practice matches and they are the place to experiment.

steakbake
04-08-2009, 08:23 AM
I'm depressed, it seems I will once again be surrounded by fans who know so little about football they will try to judge the whole season based on pre-season friendlies. These are practice matches and they are the place to experiment.

:agree:

We were looking good in spells during the Preston match. Yogi has only been in place for a month or so and hasn't had the chance to sort out the team he wants. When it comes to a competitive match, we'll be out there with a game plan, committed players and playing for points.

I've seen much more from Yogi's team to be optimistic about than the hit n hope we got from Paatelainen.

It's as easy to get depressed over a loss in a bounce match as it is to get overly optimistic over a win. Bet you that if we beat Blackburn or Bolton, there'll be folks on here expecting that we'll split the OF.

Final point is to say that people should get off DVZ's case. Cheering when he was substituted is just pish. There were players out there on Saturday who didn't look interested - maybe they weren't up for the game. I wouldn't say that DVZ was one of them.

hibees_green
04-08-2009, 08:27 AM
Our squad is weaker than last season. The board have to back their managerial appointment with some reinvestment of the 3.5 Million taken in thus far this summer.


I am sure they will though. Would imagine 2 or 3 will come in before window shuts. If Yogi does a good job though he will be able to get much better performances out of some of the guys Mixu never got to kick a ball.

This for me is the optimism I cannot muster. There is no rational reason for me to beleive this. History shows that it won't happen.

I don't think we will invest any of this in players and even if we did it will be no more than 20% of the 3.5 million. This will not be enough to make any tangable improvement in the squad.

Me might bring in another player that we have never heard of or is unlikely to be better than what we have, but I am fairly certain we will not replace anyone close to what we have lost.

I admire people like JimBHibees who can sustain this belief, but I think I'm too much of a realist.

Dashing Bob S
04-08-2009, 08:36 AM
I'm hope I'm not being offensive here, but i do think a lot of people use football to shield/illustrate/navigate through what is essentially a condition of depression.

Fandom to me is essentially an optimistic, even delusive state. If you want to see a team win trophies, then there are only two teams to follow in Scotland, albeit in a vicarious, detached glory-hunting way. But then the trophies become meaningless as there is no glory in being a multinational supermarket who puts a corner shop out of business. Then you can get depressed about how your team cannot compete in Europe etc etc.

It's unlikely that Hibs will win anything this year.

However, it's far more likely that we will be able to compete in cup competitions, perhaps, with a decent draw, attain success in one of them.

It's also far more likely that we will play adventurous, attacking football and bring on more gifted young players.

Yes, it would be nice to get one game in Europe before being pumped by nonentities, but i'd much rather we continued to make the progress on debt and infrastructure wer'e doing, so that when we do go back into Europe we'll do so with a team that will have some degree of competitiveness there.

I think we are in a much better position now than we were three months ago, and have a manager who understands the strengths of the club; attractive attacking football, youth based development, and solid fiscal management to avoid the albatross of debt and the boom-bust mentality which has messed up the progress of Hibs for the last twenty years.

jdships
04-08-2009, 08:42 AM
I think everyone needs to be abit more realistic here!

Last seasons pre-season was awful, the performances were much, much worse than yesterday! Yet despite that we made the top 6 with a **** manager and wernt all that far behind the european places!

Yesterday we were playing against a top championship side, a team stronger than any we will face this season (maybe bar the old firm), and who are a week ahead of us in preparations for the new season and cutting out the individual mistakes their keeper had more saves to make in the match.

Huge over reaction here IMO.


:top marks
Thanks for mirroring my thoughts exactly !

:flag:

Saorsa
04-08-2009, 08:57 AM
Think I'll wait until at least the end of the transfer windae before I take my place on the edge of the bridge ready tae jump off. The 2nd half on Saturday certainly raised a few concerns particularly the back. Hopefully the problems will be resolved by the start of the season or at least the end of the transfer windae. If however nothing changes between now and then and we have tae compete for the whole season (or even until January) with the team as it stands I'll certainly be a bit more concerned.

Ray_
04-08-2009, 09:19 AM
I'm depressed, it seems I will once again be surrounded by fans who know so little about football they will try to judge the whole season based on pre-season friendlies. These are practice matches and they are the place to experiment.

Even people who obviously do not have knowledge of football that you have, can recognise it when a club is bereft of talent. It hasn't been just pre-season to notice that, last season was a large clue to where we were on that front & our position has deteriorated since, although thankfully, one plus point, we have managed to move on some of the poorer quality.

Like a lot of people on here, I think it is apparent that we need at least three quality signings to make the club a threat for the third spot & not only that, to make us a marketable force again, where the club can ignite a spark & start bringing in some decent revenue once again.

hibees_green
04-08-2009, 09:26 AM
I'm hope I'm not being offensive here, but i do think a lot of people use football to shield/illustrate/navigate through what is essentially a condition of depression.

I think drink and gambling are 'shields' that people would be more likely to use. Both, however, certainly have links to football!!!!

I think there will be a split camp. One that see's 'normal' to mean 'realistic' with 'constant optimism' viewed as 'delusional'. The other viewing 'normal' to mean 'positive' with realism seen as 'persimistic'.

Otherwise known as Doom and Gloomers or Happy Clappers:wink:

All I know as I enjoy football but currently think the focus that Hibs has on operations and infrastructure v's quality of product is wrong. It's loosing a lot of fans and has lost me as an ST holder. I'm ready to return when the desire for success on the park is greater than the desire for glossy stadiums and superb infrastructure.

Sergey
04-08-2009, 09:30 AM
Even people who obviously do not have knowledge of football that you have, can recognise it when a club is bereft of talent. It hasn't been just pre-season to notice that, last season was a large clue to where we were on that front & our position has deteriorated since, although thankfully, one plus point, we have managed to move on some of the poorer quality.

Like a lot of people on here, I think it is apparent that we need at least three quality signings to make the club a threat for the third spot & not only that, to make us a marketable force again, where the club can ignite a spark & start bringing in some decent revenue once again.

Are you saying that our current squad can't compete against the likes of Aberdeen, Dundee Utd and Hearts (plus the others in the SPL) to challenge for 3rd place?

hibees_green
04-08-2009, 09:33 AM
Are you saying that our current squad can't compete against the likes of Aberdeen, Dundee Utd and Hearts (plus the others in the SPL) to challenge for 3rd place?

We didn't do to well last year with a better squad.

More importantly I care more about us improving than competing.

Ray_
04-08-2009, 09:34 AM
Are you saying that our current squad can't compete against the likes of Aberdeen, Dundee Utd and Hearts (plus the others in the SPL) to challenge for 3rd place?

Yes, we have a new manager, not a magician, our squad is even weaker than last seasons shambles.

Sergey
04-08-2009, 09:44 AM
Yes, we have a new manager, not a magician, our squad is even weaker than last seasons shambles.

Is it?

Jones can be replaced and Fletcher cost us as many points as he won us last season through missing umpteen sitters. That was probably the difference between us finishing 3rd/4th compared to 6th (even with Mixu in charge).

We've got Zouma back who's showing his class and the new recruits could well bolster the squad if we adopt a new style of passing play.

But don't let the positives detract from your stoic beliefs that we can't challenge for 3rd.

MyJo
04-08-2009, 09:54 AM
This for me is the optimism I cannot muster. There is no rational reason for me to beleive this. History shows that it won't happen.

I don't think we will invest any of this in players and even if we did it will be no more than 20% of the 3.5 million. This will not be enough to make any tangable improvement in the squad.

Me might bring in another player that we have never heard of or is unlikely to be better than what we have, but I am fairly certain we will not replace anyone close to what we have lost.

I admire people like JimBHibees who can sustain this belief, but I think I'm too much of a realist.

I assume that you are forgetting that what you are complaining we have "lost" over the last 3 years are products of the youth system we have turned into top level players and sold on for large fees and bosman signings or minimal fee purchases we had never heard of until they came to us??

as far as i can see we are simply following the same route that served us so well with Mowbray, a highly rated batch of young players breaking through into the first team squad to be developed into star players for us.....we're already seeing the potential with players like Byrne, Wotherspoon and Hanlon pushing for first team places while Currie, Welsh & Deane are in the squad learning thier trade and we have another layer below in the u-19's with some potentially cracking players ready to breakthrough in the next 2 or 3 years and we have a manager with a track record of developing young players into the SPL so we are perfectly placed to take advantage of our "conveyer belt of talent" with the right infastructure in place (that our previous "golden generation helped pay for).

We might not be going out and spending hundreds of thousands of pounds in transfer fees and much more on top of that in the wages that these type of players will demand but we are working hard to develop the new Scott Brown, Garry O'Connor or Steven Whittaker which is the only way non-OF teams in the SPL could possibly hope to have players of that quality in thier teams and we're signing players like Galbraith & McReadie who haven't quite made the grade in the premiership but could very well be the next David Murphy.

Too many people seem to want an instant fix and for us to start spending money all over the place rather than giving our hugely successful youths a chance which, as far as i am concerned, is what Hibs are about just as much as attractive, passing football. Hibs aren't a big club that will be challenging for titles and cups every season while the old firm are still around and people who think we have some divine right to third place are deluded when decent teams like Hearts (i feel so dirty admitting that), Dundee United and Aberdeen are all competing at the same level as us.

The future is bright, the future is green & white........but patience is the key.

blackpoolhibs
04-08-2009, 09:59 AM
Are you saying that our current squad can't compete against the likes of Aberdeen, Dundee Utd and Hearts (plus the others in the SPL) to challenge for 3rd place?

I am, this squad will not make 3rd place, it needs new additions, at least 3 probably more.

smurf
04-08-2009, 10:05 AM
I don't think we will invest any of this in players and even if we did it will be no more than 20% of the 3.5 million. This will not be enough to make any tangable improvement in the squad.

I'd be ecstatic if 20% of the 3.5 Million was reinvested.:wink:

It could bring in 2-3 players that would improve us. However, there's no way our board will reinvest that sum.

We could raise 35 Million through sales and i'd still doubt that they would. A 'Capital infrastructure project' would be found somewhere....

blackpoolhibs
04-08-2009, 10:07 AM
Is it?

Jones can be replaced and Fletcher cost us as many points as he won us last season through missing umpteen sitters. That was probably the difference between us finishing 3rd/4th compared to 6th (even with Mixu in charge).

We've got Zouma back who's showing his class and the new recruits could well bolster the squad if we adopt a new style of passing play.

But don't let the positives detract from your stoic beliefs that we can't challenge for 3rd.

Anyone who thinks fletcher cost us as many points as he won us last season, has no idea about football.:confused: Yes he missed a few, who never? I will tell you, nish for one, he's crap, and will never get into the positions fletcher did, but he's the new saviour, the man to lead the line. :faf: JJ couldnt hit a barn door with a banjo, yet he's what we have left. Perhaps someone will come in and give us a few million quid for these 2 players, and we can then go out and replace them with better quality.:faf: Fletchers misses were the difference between us finishing 3rd rather than 6th. :faf::faf::faf:

Phil D. Rolls
04-08-2009, 10:07 AM
Even people who obviously do not have knowledge of football that you have, can recognise it when a club is bereft of talent. It hasn't been just pre-season to notice that, last season was a large clue to where we were on that front & our position has deteriorated since, although thankfully, one plus point, we have managed to move on some of the poorer quality.

Like a lot of people on here, I think it is apparent that we need at least three quality signings to make the club a threat for the third spot & not only that, to make us a marketable force again, where the club can ignite a spark & start bringing in some decent revenue once again.

Well it's all about opinions, and I think the wrist cutting tone of this thread is a tad premature. It's still early days, and I think I am hardly breaking new ground by asking people not to judge the season on one friendly match.

At the moment, things don't look great, our squad is too small in stature and lack the muscle to compete. But given that there is a chance to buy players and the money to do so, I think I'll wait until the window closes at least before reaching for the Prozac.

I agree we need three signings - at the peak of their career. I can only hope that Hibs are holding off to get the best possible deal (we are probably way down the pecking order when it comes to good players' first choice moves).

smurf
04-08-2009, 10:10 AM
Yes, we have a new manager, not a magician, our squad is even weaker than last seasons shambles.

:agree: Says it all. If we want to get European football for season 2010-2011 then Rod better get his act together in terms of player recruitment and fast....

Or are we no longer regarding ourselves as a club that ought to be competing for European qualification?

I've long doubted the ambitions of our board but i'm now seriously beginning to doubt it of our fans. It almost appears that it's been completely sucked out of us and we're accepting our fate as a mid table club in the mediocrity of the SPL.:boo hoo:

Ray_
04-08-2009, 10:13 AM
Is it?

Jones can be replaced and Fletcher cost us as many points as he won us last season through missing umpteen sitters. That was probably the difference between us finishing 3rd/4th compared to 6th (even with Mixu in charge).

We've got Zouma back who's showing his class and the new recruits could well bolster the squad if we adopt a new style of passing play.

But don't let the positives detract from your stoic beliefs that we can't challenge for 3rd.

Well clearly Owen Coyle has a different opinion of him than you do, so does George Burley for that matter, Zouma is a plus, granted, hopefully he will have brought consistency with him, however, our defence is a shambles & our midfield [Zouma apart] toothless and up front Riordan is our only potent goal scorer.

You talk about Fletcher missing chances, how many times does Nish being offside bring good attacks to a halt? Many chances lost due one of our senior players seriously lacking the basics?

You mentioned replacing Jones, if its not within, that's strengthening the squad and something I had said we needed to do, although I mentioned three players needed.

hibees_green
04-08-2009, 10:14 AM
I'd be ecstatic if 20% of the 3.5 Million was reinvested.:wink:

It could bring in 2-3 players that would improve us. However, there's no way our board will reinvest that sum.

We could raise 35 Million through sales and i'd still doubt that they would. A 'Capital infrastructure project' would be found somewhere....

:agree:

Do you not share our ambition of having infrastructure and operations at a level to compete in the English premiership. Why should the level the squads playing at interfere with such hign standards.

blackpoolhibs
04-08-2009, 10:15 AM
Well it's all about opinions, and I think the wrist cutting tone of this thread is a tad premature. It's still early days, and I think I am hardly breaking new ground by asking people not to judge the season on one friendly match.

At the moment, things don't look great, our squad is too small in stature and lack the muscle to compete. But given that there is a chance to buy players and the money to do so, I think I'll wait until the window closes at least before reaching for the Prozac.

I agree we need three signings - at the peak of their career. I can only hope that Hibs are holding off to get the best possible deal (we are probably way down the pecking order when it comes to good players' first choice moves).

I dont see any wrist cutting, i see a bit of concern. We all, well maybe not us all, but most of us can see we are weaker now than when we finished the season in 6th. Yes Zemamma is back, we also have the two falkirk players, and yogi, who will get us playing differently. I have no doubt with this squad, we can again challenge for 6th spot, but imho that is not good enough, in fact its again imho failure. We need the 3 players you talk about, perhaps we need even more. There's no prozac being taken, just people having the same concerns we seem to have year after year after year.

hibees_green
04-08-2009, 10:28 AM
.....but patience is the key.........

That just makes me smile.

I spoke to one of the directors who was around at the time of O'Conner & Brown et al. He openly admitted that along with all the hard work there was a huge piece of good fortune that combined all this talent to be around at the same time. He also felt it was very unlikely that it would happen again for a very long time.

I happen to agree with him.

Have you not noticed that in playing terms we are not progressing at all. This would surely be the first indicator of some improvement.

I'd also point out that we managed to create the previous talent without such grand infrastructure so why is it so necessary?

hibsbollah
04-08-2009, 10:31 AM
but he's the new saviour, the man to lead the line. :faf:

When did anyone say this?:confused:

smurf
04-08-2009, 10:32 AM
just people having the same concerns we seem to have year after year after year.

:agree:

And year after year our fears come true. And year after year those just clinging to hope are left disappointed.

Our club - with its proud historic European record - should be judged on its European qualification record.

And it's not good these past 20 years. In fact it's colossal underachievement that is frankly a disgrace.

There is money to be earned from the Europa League and all i want to see is a serious effort from the board for us to compete in order to get into it.

Not expecting us to absolutely do it but i do expect us to compete to do so.

The current boards strategy means that not only do we not qualify we don't bloody compete to either.:grr:

Sergey
04-08-2009, 10:33 AM
Well clearly Owen Coyle has a different opinion of him than you do, so does George Burley for that matter, Zouma is a plus, granted, hopefully he will have brought consistency with him, however, our defence is a shambles & our midfield [Zouma apart] toothless and up front Riordan is our only potent goal scorer.

You talk about Fletcher missing chances, how many times does Nish being offside bring good attacks to a halt? Many chances lost due one of our senior players seriously lacking the basics?

You mentioned replacing Jones, if its not within, that's strengthening the squad and something I had said we needed to do, although I mentioned three players needed.

You said that the current squad couldn't compete for 3rd place. I say it can.

Out with the OF, I don't think there's much between the other teams in the league. Hibs aren't alone in losing their better players.

The point I've highlighted was probably as much to do with our style of play last season than it was the said player lacking basic skills.

Phil D. Rolls
04-08-2009, 10:34 AM
I dont see any wrist cutting, i see a bit of concern. We all, well maybe not us all, but most of us can see we are weaker now than when we finished the season in 6th. Yes Zemamma is back, we also have the two falkirk players, and yogi, who will get us playing differently. I have no doubt with this squad, we can again challenge for 6th spot, but imho that is not good enough, in fact its again imho failure. We need the 3 players you talk about, perhaps we need even more. There's no prozac being taken, just people having the same concerns we seem to have year after year after year.

Concern is one thing, talking about being depressed is another altogether. I agree that things need to improve, but I won't be overly concerned until the window closes.

I know there's no Prozac being taken, but maybe some people need to. Depression is taking an unrealistically gloomy view of things.

blackpoolhibs
04-08-2009, 10:35 AM
When did anyone say this?:confused:

He's the one whos started up front most of the pre season games, he's the man we will be relying on to score our goals, along with riordan. So he is the new saviour, we are actually better off without fletcher.:faf: He cost us points last season.:faf:

hibsbollah
04-08-2009, 10:39 AM
He's the one whos started up front most of the pre season games, he's the man we will be relying on to score our goals, along with riordan. So he is the new saviour, we are actually better off without fletcher.:faf: He cost us points last season.:faf:

So, no-one actually said it then.

blackpoolhibs
04-08-2009, 10:40 AM
So, no-one actually said it then.

Can you not read, of course someone said it.:confused:

blackpoolhibs
04-08-2009, 10:42 AM
Concern is one thing, talking about being depressed is another altogether. I agree that things need to improve, but I won't be overly concerned until the window closes.

I know there's no Prozac being taken, but maybe some people need to. Depression is taking an unrealistically gloomy view of things.

Ah there you go again, i dont see any of that, all i see is a little concern. And that could all disapear should the tache open his wallet, and we get these 3-4-5 players we certainly need.:wink:

Sergey
04-08-2009, 10:44 AM
He's the one whos started up front most of the pre season games, he's the man we will be relying on to score our goals, along with riordan. So he is the new saviour, we are actually better off without fletcher.:faf: He cost us points last season.:faf:

I can recall two instances last season (there may have been more) when Fletcher slid in and attempted to score with his left peg when even I could have scored with my right. IIRC we drew both matches (therefore costing us points).

Maybe your interpretation differs.

Ray_
04-08-2009, 10:47 AM
I assume that you are forgetting that what you are complaining we have "lost" over the last 3 years are products of the youth system we have turned into top level players and sold on for large fees and bosman signings or minimal fee purchases we had never heard of until they came to us??

as far as i can see we are simply following the same route that served us so well with Mowbray, a highly rated batch of young players breaking through into the first team squad to be developed into star players for us.....we're already seeing the potential with players like Byrne, Wotherspoon and Hanlon pushing for first team places while Currie, Welsh & Deane are in the squad learning thier trade and we have another layer below in the u-19's with some potentially cracking players ready to breakthrough in the next 2 or 3 years and we have a manager with a track record of developing young players into the SPL so we are perfectly placed to take advantage of our "conveyer belt of talent" with the right infastructure in place (that our previous "golden generation helped pay for).

We might not be going out and spending hundreds of thousands of pounds in transfer fees and much more on top of that in the wages that these type of players will demand but we are working hard to develop the new Scott Brown, Garry O'Connor or Steven Whittaker which is the only way non-OF teams in the SPL could possibly hope to have players of that quality in thier teams and we're signing players like Galbraith & McReadie who haven't quite made the grade in the premiership but could very well be the next David Murphy.

Too many people seem to want an instant fix and for us to start spending money all over the place rather than giving our hugely successful youths a chance which, as far as i am concerned, is what Hibs are about just as much as attractive, passing football. Hibs aren't a big club that will be challenging for titles and cups every season while the old firm are still around and people who think we have some divine right to third place are deluded when decent teams like Hearts (i feel so dirty admitting that), Dundee United and Aberdeen are all competing at the same level as us.

The future is bright, the future is green & white........but patience is the key.

Patience right enough, we waited 35 years for a group of to come through our youth system that came anywhere reasonably close to the league the likes of John Brownlie, John Blackley & Alex Cropley, operated at.

The older generation had been supplemented by buying in youngsters such as Erich Scheadler & Arthur Duncan, add the old hands like Stanton & O'Rourke & shrewd buys made by ET, such as Edwards & Gordon & the tornadoes were formed.

TM never benefited from having the Stanton or O'Rourke already at the club or having the money to bring in the quality of an Edwards or Gordon, however, if you think the likes of our last golden generation comes around every couple of years, you clearly know little about the history of Scottish football over the last thirty years or so.

We may be better at attracting youngsters, however, churning out a Scott Brown or a Kevin Thomson's is a whole different matter & churning them out altogether is something else.

How many years did it take to get a decent right back before Steven Whittaker made the position his own? The same could be said with Murphy, although that answer is easier, as it came in McLeish's era. Before Jones, how many years had we been searching for a commanding centre half?

Why do you believe that all of a sudden this type of talent will become readily available? One things for sure, we are building the new generation of young players up for an almighty fall, by having this level of expectation.

hibsbollah
04-08-2009, 10:49 AM
Can you not read, of course someone said it.:confused:

No-one described Nish as 'the new saviour'. You seem to be a bit fond of using strawman arguments to back up your ropey, negative point of view that we are doomed, and we are certs for relegation. (see youve got me doing it now)...

Phil D. Rolls
04-08-2009, 10:49 AM
Ah there you go again, i dont see any of that, all i see is a little concern. And that could all disapear should the tache open his wallet, and we get these 3-4-5 players we certainly need.:wink:

BH - look at the title of the thread please.

blackpoolhibs
04-08-2009, 10:49 AM
I can recall two instances last season (there may have been more) when Fletcher slid in and attempted to score with his left peg when even I could have scored with my right. IIRC we drew both matches (therefore costing us points).

Maybe your interpretation differs.

I remember jones missing a couple of headers he should have scored with, nish well pick any game. JJ what did he actually do? Lewis stevenson, has he even scored a goal? Maka, how many points did he cost us? Yet it was fletcher going with his wrong foot that cost us european football. Quality.:faf: I await the multi million pound offers for these players to join fletcher in the premiership.

blackpoolhibs
04-08-2009, 10:52 AM
BH - look at the title of the thread please.

I realise that FR, but it has diverted a little, and we are not seeing depression, or wrists being cut. Its just a discussion on what needs doing, will it get done, who knows.:wink:

Ray_
04-08-2009, 10:54 AM
You said that the current squad couldn't compete for 3rd place. I say it can.

Out with the OF, I don't think there's much between the other teams in the league. Hibs aren't alone in losing their better players.

The point I've highlighted was probably as much to do with our style of play last season than it was the said player lacking basic skills.

You should have seen him in Ireland! Hopefully you won't get the chance to prove you're point, no matter how wrong I think you are, as hopefully we will bring in those desperately needed players.

blackpoolhibs
04-08-2009, 10:56 AM
No-one described Nish as 'the new saviour'. You seem to be a bit fond of using strawman arguments to back up your ropey, negative point of view that we are doomed, and we are certs for relegation. (see youve got me doing it now)...

You do have difficulty in reading, dont you.:confused: Let me state here and now, i predict we will not be relegated, we wont struggle at the wrong end of the table, and we will finish around 6th again. Unless we get at least 3 probably 4 more players, i dont think we will make 3rd though. Is that clear enough for you? If anyone else says i am predicting doom, i will just keep bringing this post up.:confused:

Phil D. Rolls
04-08-2009, 11:04 AM
I realise that FR, but it has diverted a little, and we are not seeing depression, or wrists being cut. Its just a discussion on what needs doing, will it get done, who knows.:wink:

I hear what you are saying, but it is just one man's opinion. I agree there is cause for concern.

I realise that just as the Yams have their belivers, there are some of us who are making all sorts of assumptions about what the board has in mind.

I'd like to think they are waiting till other clubs, and players get desperate towards the end of the month and get players on our terms. I don't think anyone can argue, our board have put themselves in a strong position when it comes to negotiating.

I have a nagging doubt that they think that having brought through one golden generation of players, there is nothing to stop them doing the same again. The evidence on the field would suggest different.

smurf
04-08-2009, 11:08 AM
I hear what you are saying, but it is just one man's opinion. I agree there is cause for concern.

I realise that just as the Yams have their belivers, there are some of us who are making all sorts of assumptions about what the board has in mind.

I'd like to think they are waiting till other clubs, and players get desperate towards the end of the month and get players on our terms. I don't think anyone can argue, our board have put themselves in a strong position when it comes to negotiating.

I have a nagging doubt that they think that having brought through one golden generation of players, there is nothing to stop them doing the same again. The evidence on the field would suggest different.

:agree::thumbsup:

JimBHibees
04-08-2009, 11:09 AM
This for me is the optimism I cannot muster. There is no rational reason for me to beleive this. History shows that it won't happen.

I don't think we will invest any of this in players and even if we did it will be no more than 20% of the 3.5 million. This will not be enough to make any tangable improvement in the squad.

Me might bring in another player that we have never heard of or is unlikely to be better than what we have, but I am fairly certain we will not replace anyone close to what we have lost.

I admire people like JimBHibees who can sustain this belief, but I think I'm too much of a realist.

I would be amazed of 2 or 3 players didnt come in prior to the end of the window. We will see I suppose.

MyJo
04-08-2009, 11:13 AM
That just makes me smile.

I spoke to one of the directors who was around at the time of O'Conner & Brown et al. He openly admitted that along with all the hard work there was a huge piece of good fortune that combined all this talent to be around at the same time. He also felt it was very unlikely that it would happen again for a very long time.

I happen to agree with him.

Have you not noticed that in playing terms we are not progressing at all. This would surely be the first indicator of some improvement.

I'd also point out that we managed to create the previous talent without such grand infrastructure so why is it so necessary?

:Ummm: did you not notice our under 19 squad winning a league and cup double last season and 7 of them being promoted to the first team squad :dunno:

What i have noticed in playing terms is that we're passing the ball around and actually making an attempt at playing football.....a complete culture change from what Mixu had us doing and IMO that is progression but its only been 4 weeks and a few friendlies since Yogi has tried to get us playing football again FFS its not going to click overnight and we're still in the process of reshaping the squad to what Yogi wants.

as for the infastructure, your right we didn't need it to develop the previous talent but for a club our size to have pack players into mini-buses and rent public pitches to train on was embarrassing just like having the pathetic east stand alongside our other three top class stands at easter road is embarrassing and unbefitting of our club.

blackpoolhibs
04-08-2009, 11:14 AM
I hear what you are saying, but it is just one man's opinion. I agree there is cause for concern.

I realise that just as the Yams have their belivers, there are some of us who are making all sorts of assumptions about what the board has in mind.

I'd like to think they are waiting till other clubs, and players get desperate towards the end of the month and get players on our terms. I don't think anyone can argue, our board have put themselves in a strong position when it comes to negotiating.

I have a nagging doubt that they think that having brought through one golden generation of players, there is nothing to stop them doing the same again. The evidence on the field would suggest different.

I have no doubts either, that the club are waiting on answers fom players, who will probably have a few offers on the table, and are weighing things up. Come the end of august, we will have new players. Come the end of august we will then get down to seeing how they gell, how yogi can get his style of play over, and how well they adapt. I keep saying this, it is a discussion board, to discuss thing. Football changes from day to day, thats one of the good things about it. So we may be depressed one day,:wink: but we can be as happy as a sand boy the next, with a new signing, or a good win.:thumbsup:

Ray_
04-08-2009, 11:14 AM
I would be amazed of 2 or 3 players didnt come in prior to the end of the window. We will see I suppose.

I think the main point of hibees_green is the quality factor of who may come in. I think it is pointless to bring in somebody unless they are at a certain quality, we have just got rid of a number of players who were just making up the numbers.

Ray_
04-08-2009, 11:16 AM
:Ummm: did you not notice our under 19 squad winning a league and cup double last season and 7 of them being promoted to the first team squad :dunno:

.

If just one of them excels in the first team it'll be a bonus, Yogi himself said some will need to be farmed out.

blackpoolhibs
04-08-2009, 11:21 AM
What i have noticed in playing terms is that we're passing the ball around and actually making an attempt at playing football.....a complete culture change from what Mixu had us doing and IMO that is progression but its only been 4 weeks and a few friendlies since Yogi has tried to get us playing football again FFS its not going to click overnight and we're still in the process of reshaping the squad to what Yogi wants.


Culture change?
I hear what you are saying, but surely the players we have, have not forgotten how to pass the ball? They did know how to do it before mixu got his hands on the team. Players have to take resposibility for their own performances, and a lot of them let mixu down last season. We have a few players who are actually in the first team, that should not be, they are just not good enough. Yogi needs time AND A BIT OF MONEY, will he get it?

Expecting Rain
04-08-2009, 11:25 AM
I am, this squad will not make 3rd place, it needs new additions, at least 3 probably more.

I don`t see much depression here but more than a touch of realism which is frowned upon by many on this board, we all collectively want Hibs to do well but we shouldn`t kid ourselves on we have been weakened by the comings and goings so far.

blackpoolhibs
04-08-2009, 11:29 AM
I don`t see much depression here but more than a touch of realism which is frowned upon by many on this board, we all collectively want Hibs to do well but we shouldn`t kid ourselves on we have been weakened by the comings and goings so far.

:top marks I agree 100%. I feel we are weaker than we were at the end of last season, although i do feel the SPL is also weaker. It all depends on who we bring in between now and the end of august, but as you say, lets not kid ourselves things are better than they actually are.

JimBHibees
04-08-2009, 11:30 AM
I think the main point of hibees_green is the quality factor of who may come in. I think it is pointless to bring in somebody unless they are at a certain quality, we have just got rid of a number of players who were just making up the numbers.

Absolutely agree with that. No point bringing anyone in if they arent better than what we have or can provide cover we dont currently have.

Expecting Rain
04-08-2009, 11:32 AM
Absolutely agree with that. No point bringing anyone in if they arent better than what we have or can provide cover we dont currently have.

Yes and if anything we need a decent balance, i think Yogi is very aware of that.:agree:

JimBHibees
04-08-2009, 11:34 AM
:top marks I agree 100%. I feel we are weaker than we were at the end of last season, although i do feel the SPL is also weaker. It all depends on who we bring in between now and the end of august, but as you say, lets not kid ourselves things are better than they actually are.

Agree to an extent we have no doubt lost some quality in Jones and Fletcher leaving and we do need 2 or 3 decent players in this window however if Yogi is able to get a 10-15% improvement in the majority of the guys already here while bringing through 1 or 2 of the u19s as genuine first team squad players we will be stronger.

blackpoolhibs
04-08-2009, 12:43 PM
Agree to an extent we have no doubt lost some quality in Jones and Fletcher leaving and we do need 2 or 3 decent players in this window however if Yogi is able to get a 10-15% improvement in the majority of the guys already here while bringing through 1 or 2 of the u19s as genuine first team squad players we will be stronger.

I hope these next generation of kids can come through next season, and the seasons after. And agree yogi should get an extra percentage out the players we have left, although he's no magician, and will certainly not want to put too much pressure on those very kids we are hopeing will be the future. And for those reasons, i feel its imperative he gets the funds to get the right players in, whoever they are.

JimBHibees
04-08-2009, 12:55 PM
I hope these next generation of kids can come through next season, and the seasons after. And agree yogi should get an extra percentage out the players we have left, although he's no magician, and will certainly not want to put too much pressure on those very kids we are hopeing will be the future. And for those reasons, i feel its imperative he gets the funds to get the right players in, whoever they are.

Agree 100%.

hibees_green
04-08-2009, 01:46 PM
I think the main point of hibees_green is the quality factor of who may come in. I think it is pointless to bring in somebody unless they are at a certain quality, we have just got rid of a number of players who were just making up the numbers.

Correct. I just hope that some bizzare wage cap system isn't blocking this option.

Alicky Ranks
04-08-2009, 03:46 PM
No offence, but I think it's the 'live in hope' mentality that is the problem with most Hibs fans. 'Living in hope' gets you a paltry three League Cups in 60 odd years. If the fans tried to raise the bar a bit instead of shrugging their shoulders and muttering 'typical Hibs' we might actually have a team which aspires to more than mediocrity. Aside from the football on display, one of the reasons I've stopped going is because I was p***ing too many folk off who sat near me by dishing out a few heartfelt expletives at the latest dirge-filled Hibs performance. Fair dos, I can go OTT at times, but I couldn't just sit there and take that p**h on the pitch. I guess when your first introduction to Hibs came when Stanton and Cropley were still in the team you should maybe just accept it's all going to be downhill from there.

Spot on. I don't imagine any Hibs fan regards winning the league as a realistic ambition any more but far too many set their sights way too low IMHO.