Carol Ann Duffy, poet laureate

[(((Fergus)))]

Having just read her magnificent memorial to Harry Patch (http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_8175000/8175790.stm) and that generation now passed, I thought I'd have a look at some more of Carol Ann Duffy's writing. I've never really been particularly interested in poetry, but what I've seen so far is excellent. Below is her first piece as poet laureate, on the subject of MPs expenses.


Politics

How it makes of your face a stone
that aches to weep, of your heart a fist,
clenched or thumping, sweating blood, of your tongue
an iron latch with no door. How it makes of your right hand
a gauntlet, a glove-puppet of the left, of your laugh
a dry leaf blowing in the wind, of your desert island discs
hiss hiss hiss, makes of the words on your lips dice
that can throw no six. How it takes the breath
away, the piss, makes of your kiss a dropped pound coin,
makes of your promises latin, gibberish, feedback, static,
of your hair a wig, of your gait a plankwalk. How it says this –
politics – to your education education education; shouts this –
Politics! – to your health and wealth; how it roars, to your
conscience moral compass truth, POLITICS POLITICS POLITICS

[Tomsk]

Thanks Fergus. I enjoyed the poem. Hibs netters of a certain vintage should instantly recognise the first two lines, which are a lift from Dulce Et Decorum Est by Wilfred Owen.

Carol Ann Duffy has made an exciting start as Poet Laureate attacking themes her predecessors in the post would not have dared to touch. I look forward to reading more.

[Hibs Class]

I read a short poem - two lines or so - by her shortly after she was appointed, and have sent a frustrating half hour or so trying to find it to post here, but without success. Her Last Post poem is excellent.

[hibsbollah]

Having just read her magnificent memorial to Harry Patch (http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_8175000/8175790.stm) and that generation now passed, I thought I'd have a look at some more of Carol Ann Duffy's writing. I've never really been particularly interested in poetry, but what I've seen so far is excellent. Below is her first piece as poet laureate, on the subject of MPs expenses.


Politics

How it makes of your face a stone
that aches to weep, of your heart a fist,
clenched or thumping, sweating blood, of your tongue
an iron latch with no door. How it makes of your right hand
a gauntlet, a glove-puppet of the left, of your laugh
a dry leaf blowing in the wind, of your desert island discs
hiss hiss hiss, makes of the words on your lips dice
that can throw no six. How it takes the breath
away, the piss, makes of your kiss a dropped pound coin,
makes of your promises latin, gibberish, feedback, static,
of your hair a wig, of your gait a plankwalk. How it says this –
politics – to your education education education; shouts this –
Politics! – to your health and wealth; how it roars, to your
conscience moral compass truth, POLITICS POLITICS POLITICS

Im surprised you like her mate. She's a feminist:greengrin
In all seriousness, I had a tear in my eye reading 'Last Post'. I have negative associations with Poetry from school but that has definitely encouraged me to search some out. I like Robert Frost.

[MSK]

Thats a poem ..:confused:...sorry for my ignorance...

Bring back Rabbie ...:rolleyes:

[LiverpoolHibs]

Oh Christ no, don't get me started on her...

Absolutely no redeeming qualities whatsoever. Dreadful.

She's got some balls (not to mention ideas well above her station) to use such an obvious reference to Yeats in that 'Politics' one.

[(((Fergus)))]

Im surprised you like her mate. She's a feminist:greengrin
In all seriousness, I had a tear in my eye reading 'Last Post'. I have negative associations with Poetry from school but that has definitely encouraged me to search some out. I like Robert Frost.

I was the same with the Last Post, the way she was willing them - maybe her Grandad? - to climb out the grave and come back home to the colour of living. We went through it line by line with the children and they were just as taken as we were. I don't know anything about her as a person, I just love her use of imagery. Poetry as a medium is so much more powerful than cinema in that you can visualise anything without the detracting falsity of CGI, stuntmen, celebrities, etc., etc., or the constraints of linear playback. It's very two-dimensional by comparison.

HH I agree, Burns was a superior writer but as a living poet in this day and age, I'm impressed.

[Hibs Class]

I was the same with the Last Post, the way she was willing them - maybe her Grandad? - to climb out the grave and come back home to the colour of living. We went through it line by line with the children and they were just as taken as we were. I don't know anything about her as a person, I just love her use of imagery. Poetry as a medium is so much more powerful than cinema in that you can visualise anything without the detracting falsity of CGI, stuntmen, celebrities, etc., etc., or the constraints of linear playback. It's very two-dimensional by comparison.

HH I agree, Burns was a superior writer but as a living poet in this day and age, I'm impressed.

:agree: I agree. Sometimes it's best to park cynicism and just take what is on offer at face value and for what it is.

[Hibrandenburg]

Im surprised you like her mate. She's a feminist:greengrin
In all seriousness, I had a tear in my eye reading 'Last Post'. I have negative associations with Poetry from school but that has definitely encouraged me to search some out. I like Robert Frost.

You mean like Liverpool but with boobs :duck:

[ArabHibee]

You mean like Liverpool but with boobs :duck:
:faf:

[Tomsk]

Oh Christ no, don't get me started on her...

Absolutely no redeeming qualities whatsoever. Dreadful.

She's got some balls (not to mention ideas well above her station) to use such an obvious reference to Yeats in that 'Politics' one.

Dreadful in what respects?

[LiverpoolHibs]

You mean like Liverpool but with boobs :duck:

I'll have you know I'm in the process of developing a fine pair of man chebs...


Dreadful in what respects?

In every respect. As I say, she has no redeeming qualities whatsoever.

She constantly lauded for her supposedly brilliant and innovative use of language when it's fairly plain to see that it's never anything other than trite, try-hard and monumentally dull. (This isn't me picking the worst of her mind, this is the poem most often used as an example of her brilliant inventiveness...)

Not a red rose or a satin heart.

I give you an onion.
It is a moon wrapped in brown paper.
It promises light
like the careful undressing of love.

Here.
It will blind you with tears
like a lover.
It will make your reflection
a wobbling photo of grief.

I mean, seriously...

Until very recently she seems to have thought that her gender, sexuality and sexual experiences were of infinite interest to all and sundry. They're certainly the most interesting things about her, but that isn't a great compliment. I'm unsure how anyone could read her early uber-feminist poetry alongside some, let's say, Adrienne Rich and ever want to read another word by her again.

Her attempts to avoid any element of elitism (as if that's a bad thing when it comes to poetry!) means that she rarely does anything but guide (read 'patronise') her unfortunate reader through every single word she writes.

As for the new stuff mentioned in this thread; as you've already hinted, what is there new or interesting about Last Post which people seem to be raving about - not just on here btw? It's essentially just a poor 'updating' of Dulce Et Decorum Est and the entire ouevre of Siegfried Sassoon.

Boring, reductive, facile and often quite unpleasant.

[Tomsk]

I'll have you know I'm in the process of developing a fine pair of man chebs...



In every respect. As I say, she has no redeeming qualities whatsoever.

She constantly lauded for her supposedly brilliant and innovative use of language when it's fairly plain to see that it's never anything other than trite, try-hard and monumentally dull. (This isn't me picking the worst of her mind, this is the poem most often used as an example of her brilliant inventiveness...)

Not a red rose or a satin heart.

I give you an onion.
It is a moon wrapped in brown paper.
It promises light
like the careful undressing of love.

Here.
It will blind you with tears
like a lover.
It will make your reflection
a wobbling photo of grief.

I mean, seriously...

Until very recently she seems to have thought that her gender, sexuality and sexual experiences were of infinite interest to all and sundry. They're certainly the most interesting things about her, but that isn't a great compliment. I'm unsure how anyone could read her early uber-feminist poetry alongside some, let's say, Adrienne Rich and ever want to read another word by her again.

Her attempts to avoid any element of elitism (as if that's a bad thing when it comes to poetry!) means that she rarely does anything but guide (read 'patronise') her unfortunate reader through every single word she writes.

As for the new stuff mentioned in this thread; as you've already hinted, what is there new or interesting about Last Post which people seem to be raving about - not just on here btw? It's essentially just a poor 'updating' of Dulce Et Decorum Est and the entire ouevre of Siegfried Sassoon.

Boring, reductive, facile and often quite unpleasant.

Your response to her work is very emotional and infused with your own values. I wish it had that affect on me. It's a very strong response.

I wouldn't, to use your word, rave about her work. But I am quite excited that as Poet Laureate she has made a public impact. Initially, I thought she was the story because of her gender but I see that she has come out swinging and is prepared to address 'public' issues. Who was the last Poet Laureate to do that -- Tennyson?

For the record, I don't find her work particularly challenging and indeed original in either content and context. She reminds me of Blake more than anyone else in her use of stark, day to day imagery. I think you're probably right in that this approach is consciously anti-elitist.

I don't agree that her poem Last Post is "just a poor 'updating' of Dulce Et Decorum Est and the entire ouevre of Siegfried Sassoon". For me, she doesn't pretend to the direct experience of these poets.

[LiverpoolHibs]

Your response to her work is very emotional and infused with your own values. I wish it had that affect on me. It's a very strong response.

People should have strong reactions to poetry (and literature more generally). It's important stuff.


I wouldn't, to use your word, rave about her work. But I am quite excited that as Poet Laureate she has made a public impact. Initially, I thought she was the story because of her gender but I see that she has come out swinging and is prepared to address 'public' issues. Who was the last Poet Laureate to do that -- Tennyson?

She's undoubtedly had a change in interest recently - not that it has improved her as a poet at all. And yeah, Tennyson probably was the last laureate to do it. Is it a preparedness to address 'public issues' or a feeling that she has to address 'public issues'? It become even more problematic if it's the latter

I'm at best apathetic and probably more antipathetic to the institution of the Poet Laureate anyway; both on political grounds and the fact that turning poetry into an 'establishment' is a ****ing horrible thing. That's not to say that there haven't been some magnificent Poet Laureates (not Tennyson though :greengrin) but you only need to look at Wordsworth and Southey to see the impact it has on the incumbents as poets. Poetry should never, ever, be a job.


For the record, I don't find her work particularly challenging and indeed original in either content and context. She reminds me of Blake more than anyone else in her use of stark, day to day imagery. I think you're probably right in that this approach is consciously anti-elitist.

Crikey, are you trying to wind me up! :wink::greengrin


I don't agree that her poem Last Post is "just a poor 'updating' of Dulce Et Decorum Est and the entire ouevre of Siegfried Sassoon". For me, she doesn't pretend to the direct experience of these poets.

Fair dos.

N.B. It's similarity (in subject matter not stylistically) to Larkin's MCMXIV has just struck me actually.

The woman's a thief, I tells ya!

[Tomsk]

People should have strong reactions to poetry (and literature more generally). It's important stuff.



She's undoubtedly had a change in interest recently - not that it has improved her as a poet at all. And yeah, Tennyson probably was the last laureate to do it. Is it a preparedness to address 'public issues' or a feeling that she has to address 'public issues'? It become even more problematic if it's the latter

I'm at best apathetic and probably more antipathetic to the institution of the Poet Laureate anyway; both on political grounds and the fact that turning poetry into an 'establishment' is a ****ing horrible thing. That's not to say that there haven't been some magnificent Poet Laureates (not Tennyson though :greengrin) but you only need to look at Wordsworth and Southey to see the impact it has on the incumbents as poets. Poetry should never, ever, be a job.



Crikey, are you trying to wind me up! :wink::greengrin



Fair dos.

N.B. It's similarity (in subject matter not stylistically) to Larkin's MCMXIV has just struck me actually.

The woman's a thief, I tells ya!


Too true!

As for the her thievery. Well, if we were to remove from all the anthologies all the poems and lyrics that were 'thieved' from somewhere else there wouldn't be much left.

And by the way, if Tennyson is not magnificent he is nothing.

[LiverpoolHibs]

Too true!

As for the her thievery. Well, if we were to remove from all the anthologies all the poems and lyrics that were 'thieved' from somewhere else there wouldn't be much left.

And by the way, if Tennyson is not magnificent he is nothing.

Nothing it is then! If anything can rival my disdain for Carol Ann Duffy it's my incomprehension of the esteem Tennyson is held in.

With the exception of 'Crossing the Bar', 'Tithonus' and 'Mariana' which are pretty much the only poems of his I can stomach.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Thats a poem ..:confused:...sorry for my ignorance...

Bring back Rabbie ...:rolleyes:

It's been the way for a very long time
That poetry doesn't have to rhyme
As long as you express in each line
The passions that you are revealing
Exactly what you are feeling
It's bound to end up just fine.

That more like it?

[Tomsk]

Nothing it is then! If anything can rival my disdain for Carol Ann Duffy it's my incomprehension of the esteem Tennyson is held in.

With the exception of 'Crossing the Bar', 'Tithonus' and 'Mariana' which are pretty much the only poems of his I can stomach.

Ah! The 21 century disdain for Victorian craftsmanship.

[(((Fergus)))]

Who would you recommend then among contemporary poets, LiverpoolHibs?

I know eff all about the modern poetry scene...but I do know what I like. :greengrin

[LiverpoolHibs]

Ah! The 21 century disdain for Victorian craftsmanship.

I prefer to see it as disdain for Victorian hypocrisy, bombast and pomposity...

They should never be forgiven for not 'getting' Gerard Manley Hopkins


Who would you recommend then among contemporary poets, LiverpoolHibs?

I know eff all about the modern poetry scene...but I do know what I like. :greengrin

Pffft. I can't say I'm particularly immersed in modern poetry myself (but I know what I hate... :greengrin), we don't exactly live in a great age for literature (or culture) as a whole. We could do with a new Culture and Anarchy...

Derek Walcott is worth reading and John Ashbury is occasionally very good.

Irish poetry is pretty healthy; Seamus Heaney (hasn't published anything for a few years now), Medbh McGuckian, Eavan Boland, Eillean Ni Chuilleanain and particularly Paul Muldoon are all still going strong.

N.B. Oh and Nuala Ni Dhomhnaill writes some beautiful Irish language poetry that you can get hold of in dual language editions.

[Tomsk]

I prefer to see it as disdain for Victorian hypocrisy, bombast and pomposity...

They should never be forgiven for not 'getting' Gerard Manley Hopkins



Pffft. I can't say I'm particularly immersed in modern poetry myself (but I know what I hate... :greengrin), we don't exactly live in a great age for literature (or culture) as a whole. We could do with a new Culture and Anarchy...

Derek Walcott is worth reading and John Ashbury is occasionally very good.

Irish poetry is pretty healthy; Seamus Heaney (hasn't published anything for a few years now), Medbh McGuckian, Eavan Boland, Eillean Ni Chuilleanain and particularly Paul Muldoon are all still going strong.

N.B. Oh and Nuala Ni Dhomhnaill writes some beautiful Irish language poetry that you can get hold of in dual language editions.

If only I had your certainties.

I knew it all when I was younger too. But as you get older you forget so much. :wink:

[MSK]

It's been the way for a very long time
That poetry doesn't have to rhyme
As long as you express in each line
The passions that you are revealing
Exactly what you are feeling
It's bound to end up just fine.

That more like it?Thats perfect FR ...:aok:

Seriously, there is a good discussion going on here & credit to the guys who are contributing..my comment on an earlier post was uncalled for & hasnt added to the debate in the slightest..

Sorry folks ..:aok:

[hibsbollah]

Oh Christ no, don't get me started on her...

Absolutely no redeeming qualities whatsoever. Dreadful.

She's got some balls (not to mention ideas well above her station) to use such an obvious reference to Yeats in that 'Politics' one.

'ideas above her 'station':faf: What should her 'station' be? Shes the poet laureate for goodness' sake. Have your opinions LH, but dont suggest that she doesnt have the right.

[LiverpoolHibs]

'ideas above her 'station':faf: What should her 'station' be? Shes the poet laureate for goodness' sake. Have your opinions LH, but dont suggest that she doesnt have the right.

I didn't mean her 'station' as in her social position or eminence in the literary world but as in her quality (such as it is) as a poet.

And, as I've said, I don't see holding the office of Poet Laureate as anything to be lauded.

[Mibbes Aye]

If only I had your certainties.

I knew it all when I was younger too. But as you get older you forget so much. :wink:

:greengrin I always had a pithy comment about that sensation. Can't remember it now though...

Anyway, Duffy's mince. As are the rest of them. Proper poetry is your Shelley and Byron, rugged men in flouncy shirts not afraid to take a rowing boat out in the Adriatic after ten bottles of wine :agree:

More serious point though, poetry is straitjacketed into being 'poetry' far more than prose or drama would ever be IMO. Too much desire for a canon.

[LiverpoolHibs]

:greengrin I always had a pithy comment about that sensation. Can't remember it now though...

Anyway, Duffy's mince. As are the rest of them. Proper poetry is your Shelley and Byron, rugged men in flouncy shirts not afraid to take a rowing boat out in the Adriatic after ten bottles of wine :agree:

More serious point though, poetry is straitjacketed into being 'poetry' far more than prose or drama would ever be IMO. Too much desire for a canon.

How do you mean? Surely poetry straightjackets itself into being 'poetry', no?

N.B. That sounds a bit aggressive, it's not meant to be - I'm genuinely curious.