Organic food is rubbish - The One Straw Revolution

[(((Fergus)))]

With the recent report that 'organic food 'has no health benefits (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/8174482.stm)' - led, in a nice twist of fate, by a person called Dr. Dangour :greengrin - I thought it might be of interest to share what I've been reading about the late Japanese microbiologist-turned-'natural farmer', Masanobu ***uoka.

According to ***uoka: "The problem [...] is that most people do not yet understand the distinction between organic gardening and natural farming. Both scientific agriculture and organic farming are basically scientific in their approach. The boundary between the two is not clear."

***uoka's system of 'natural farming' is based on four main principles:

- no tilling of the soil
- no external chemical fertiliser or prepared compost
- no pesticides
- no weeding :confused:

"With this kind of farming, which uses no machines, no prepared fertilizer and no chemicals, it is possible to attain a harvest equal to or greater than that of the average Japanese farm."

His system of rotation for grains is brilliantly simple: a couple of weeks before the rice is harvested, winter rye or barley seeds are broadcast in the rice fields. After harvesting the rice, the rice stalks are used to mulch over the rye/barley seeds in that field (which are just lying on the ground). At the start of May next year, rice seeds are broadcast in what is now a field of rye or barley. At the end of may the rye/barley are harvested and the stalks used to mulch the rice. As he said, no machinery is required and very little time either. His farm was small but still a commercial operation and it took a couple of days to perform each rotation.

Here's a couple more quotes that give a flavour of the man:

- "Natural farming is not just for growing crops, it is for the cultivation and perfection of human beings."
- "If we throw mother nature out the window, she comes back in the door with a pitchfork." :greengrin
And best of all IMO:
- "Many people think that when we practice agriculture, nature is helping us in our efforts to grow food. This is an exclusively human-centered viewpoint... we should instead, realize that we are receiving that which nature decides to give us. A farmer does not grow something in the sense that he or she creates it. That human is only a small part of the whole process by which nature expresses its being. The farmer has very little influence over that process... other than being there and doing his or her small part."

If you want to read more, this interview is a good summary of the natural farming philosophy ("the one-straw revolution"):

http://www.motherearthnews.com/Nature-Community/1982-07-01/Masanobu-***uoka.aspx

This website seems to be the official ***uoka site on the web now: http://***uokafarmingol.info/index.html

[HibsMax]

There is little difference in nutritional value and no evidence of any extra health benefits from eating organic produce, UK researchers found.


I don't pretend to know much about this topic but I always thought that the positive of organic farming is not that the food has more nutritional value but simply that no chemicals have been used in the growing process...which might be more attractive to people who are suspicious of eating food that has been treated with chemicals. I never thought that an organic green pepper would be more nutritional (nutritious?) than one sprayed with fertiliser, weed killer and pesticides.

I like the idea of less chemicals being used. I mean, do we really know what the long-term affects of using chemicals are? Do we know what will happen to the land after 50, 100, 250 years of doing this? Do we know what will happen to us? I ask myself these questions because I'm sure we don't have all the answers. A few years ago eggs were considered a great source of protein whereas nowadays they are considered to be a "great" source of cholesterol. We're finding out new things all the time.

[RyeSloan]

Nice wee story but what is the reason for the OP? Simply to introduce a random Japanese dude or to suggest that using no machinery or fertiliser is a serious suggestion on how to increase/maintain crop yields???

[Twa Cairpets]

Nice wee story but what is the reason for the OP? Simply to introduce a random Japanese dude or to suggest that using no machinery or fertiliser is a serious suggestion on how to increase/maintain crop yields???

As this is a post from my good friend Fergus, the answer to your question will lie in the immaterial. Here is a direct cut and paste from the site - incidentally it is called www.motherearthnews.com (http://www.motherearthnews.com) , so may not have an entirely unbiased position. More "science is bad, mystical stuff with no evidence to support it or rational explanation is good" from Fergus.



Through painstaking experimentation, you see, this Japanese grower has come up with a method of agriculture that reflects the deep affinity he feels with nature. He believes that by expanding our intellect beyond the traditional confinesofscientific knowledge—and by trusting the inherent wisdom of life processes—we can learn all we need to know about growing food crops. So the way things grow isnt science then? Uh-huh. A farmer, he says, should carefully watch the cycles of nature and then work with those patterns, rather than try to conquer and "tame" them. So what farmers around the world have done for years then

In keeping with that philosophy, ***uoka-san's fields display the diversity and plant succession that is a natural partofany ecosystem. In the spring, he sows rice amidst his winter grain . . . then, late in the year, casts grain seed among the maturing rice plants. A ground coverofclover and straw underlies the crops, deterring weeds and enriching the soil. In addition, the master gardener grows vegetables "wild" beneath the unpruned trees in his mountainside orchard. Naturally, such unconventional plots might look positively disastrous to traditional agronomists, but as ***uoka points out to skeptical visitors, "The proof of my techniques is ripening right before your eyes!" Farmers crops grow shock!

For many years, the Oriental gentleman's unique ideas were known only to a few individuals in his own country. In 1975, however, he wrote a book entitled The One-Straw Revolution, which was later published in the United States. Since then, he has been in great demand by groups eager to know more about this strange "new" attitude toward farming. Any groups who might actually look to take the technique and turn into something that would make money or benefit mankind? No? Really? How odd In 1979 ***uoka-san undertook an extensive tourofthe United States . . . and while he was in Amherst, Massachusetts for a series of university lectures, he talked for several hours with Larry Korn, a studentofnatural farming methods and the editorofThe One-Straw Revolution. Their conversation was conducted entirely in Japanese and later translated into the edited version printed here.

Incidentally, if you're puzzled by several instances of apparent contradiction in the following comments, consider that ***uoka-like the Oriental philosophers who deliberately present students with what seem to be illogical statements or paradoxes Or maybe he is presenting them with illogical statements and paradoxes? —is perhaps trying to help people break habitual patternsofthought and develop new perceptions. Andbecause his natural farming does demand such an unaccustomed modeofthinking, ***uoka-san warns that it is not for the timid or the lazy: "My method completely contradicts modern agricultural techniques. It throws scientific knowledge and traditional farming know-how rightout the window." So if you dont understand it its becuase you havent read it enough, rather than the fact its all bollox What's left in the wakeofthat revolutionary (and sometimes admittedly befuddling) upheaval, however, should excite—and challenge—anyone who'd like to see a simpler, more natural form a ofagriculture take root.

[HibsMax]

I'm also not sure of the motivation behind this thread but I don't see anything inflammatory about it or any reason to lay into him. :confused:. Some old Japanese dude has success growing crops using some tried and tested, albeit dated, methods. What's so awful about that?

[Twa Cairpets]

I'm also not sure of the motivation behind this thread but I don't see anything inflammatory about it or any reason to lay into him. :confused:. Some old Japanese dude has success growing crops using some tried and tested, albeit dated, methods. What's so awful about that?

Not much, I suppose.

But despite it being utter nonsense, the way it is presented makes it seem reasonale and more supportive of the "mystical ways of the wise East" is best way of thought.

If such arrant garbage is put forward as being valid, then anyone with a passing interest may read it uncritically and think - "oh, thats interesting", and store it away. Every little drip, drip of acceptance of this type of pseudoscience opens the door for another piece of irrational bunkum becoming acceptable.

Now, whilst I admit having re-read a few threads I am somewhat towards the far side of the rationalist end of the spectrum, I dont think there is anything wrong with poking away at the more bizarre ideas to get people to think and react.

[paullotion]

Good article in the Daily Mail about these old reports.

For all the publicity it has attracted, the document does not contain any new material.
In fact, it is just an analysis of existing research carried out by other bodies. Moreover, the organisation that conducted this second-hand study, the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine, is not renowned as a leading centre in this field.
Indeed, there is far more significant work currently being done on organic foods by several other bodies, some of it funded by the European Union, though the FSA has chosen to ignore it.
According to the FSA's findings, organic vegetables contain 53.6 per cent more betacarotene - which helps combat cancer and heart disease - than non-organic ones.
Similarly, organic food has 11.3 per cent more zinc, 38.4 per cent more flavonoids and 12.7 per cent more proteins.
In addition, an in-depth study by Newcastle University, far deeper than the one conducted by the FSA, has shown that organic produce contains 40 per cent more antioxidants than non-organic foods, research the FSA appears to have overlooked.
But the concentration solely on nutrition is to play into the hands of the anti-organic, pro-industrial lobby. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1203343/JOANNA-BLYTHMAN-A-cancerous-conspiracy-poison-faith-organic-food.html

You should also look up Codex Alimentarius and who is pushing it forward, this is about taking choice away, especially those who buy organic products and use supplements as well. For a different perceptive on Codex look up Dr Robert Verkerk.

[hibsbollah]

The Japanese farmer's principles don't seem a million miles away from 'green manuring', which basically involves growing quick growing, highly nutrient plants like mustard or alfafa at the end of the season, which is then broken down into the soil and improves it. You'll see thousands of allotment owners doing this each autumn. This also involves 'no pesticides, no fertilisers, no (at least not much) digging.' But 'no weeding'??:confused: Thats a whole different kettle of sushi. How he claims to get average or above average yields when he's not weeding is a mystery to me.